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Assets and liabilities – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,215
edited 6:51AM in General
Assets and liabilities – politicalbetting.com

Interesting to see perceptions of whether the party leaders help or hurt their parties has changed over past year. Burnham seen as a clear asset for Labour, Starmer a big drag, Badenoch has moved from hinder to help, while Farage’s help score has dipped to tie Badenoch.

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Comments

  • BatteryCorrectHorse
  • https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2069671349933756810

    James Purnell basically confirms himself that he is to be chief of staff.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,350
    The help / hold back question is an interesting one, as it breaks down some of the partisanship. I hadn't seen that before.

    Whether it is a useful question betting wise, rather than the more traditional leader ratings remains to be seen, I guess.
  • https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/2069649219112071576

    Jones also confirms Burnham will borrow more. However mostly for infrastructure which is an excellent idea.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,070
    New favourite Farage photo.

    I pressed pause on Nigel Farage being asked about the £5m gift yesterday



    https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/2069675925281653083
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,193
    Those of a Kemi Badenoch sceptic nature will find the polling and the trend difficult to deal with.

    On the contrary, I think "Good, determined, useless, strong, unknown, competent Conservative" fits reasonably well.

    I rather like the word clouds.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,193

    BatteryCorrectHorse

    And Ed Balls to you.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,070
    Nigelb said:

    Those of a Kemi Badenoch sceptic nature will find the polling and the trend difficult to deal with.

    On the contrary, I think "Good, determined, useless, strong, unknown, competent Conservative" fits reasonably well.

    I rather like the word clouds.

    Nigel Farage is a massive racist.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,547
    Wait & see seems to be the watchword for every area of life for me nowadays.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,447

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2069671349933756810

    James Purnell basically confirms himself that he is to be chief of staff.

    Telegraph (22nd June) tipped Kevin Lee to be CoS. Wonder if Purnell is either setting himself up as 'disappointed' or trying to avoid being bounced into a challenge.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,742

    Nigelb said:

    Those of a Kemi Badenoch sceptic nature will find the polling and the trend difficult to deal with.

    On the contrary, I think "Good, determined, useless, strong, unknown, competent Conservative" fits reasonably well.

    I rather like the word clouds.

    Nigel Farage is a massive racist.
    He’s not that big.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,742


    Sage advice from the sport


  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,070
    Taz said:



    Sage advice from the sport


    Everything can be a dildo if you're brave enough.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,852

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/2069649219112071576

    Jones also confirms Burnham will borrow more. However mostly for infrastructure which is an excellent idea.

    Council house building.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,742
    Trump getting jittery

    ‘ The big Oil Companies are not dropping their price at the pump commensurate with the sharply lower prices they are paying for Oil. Those prices are dropping like a rock! In other words, customers are being “gouged.” I have instructed the DOJ to immediately start looking into this. Gasoline prices better start going down a lot faster than what I’m seeing! President DJT’

    https://x.com/trumptruthonx/status/2069634890820456712?s=61
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,456
    Happy June record day.

    Nothing to write home about. After all, we rarely get record breaking warmth these days. Just warmest spring on record this year (yet again), the hottest May day on record, and a measly June record. Hell, we've not even broken the all time record set in July 2022. And it'll be cooler by Sunday.

    And it's fine anyway because happy old ladies and gentlemen are promenading out in the lovely warmth.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,032
    MikeL said:

    Parliament is in recess from mid July to early September.

    So what difference does it make if Burnham takes over in mid July or September?

    Because if he takes over in mid July he can't actually do anything until September in any case.

    By "do anything" I mean actually change anything of substance. Of course he can talk on TV and do photo opportunities and generally go around sounding like a nice person.

    He can take the salary, the fancy car with a policeman driving it, and get in the air miles visiting other world leaders on that nice plane they let him use.

    Maybe even take some time to think about what he’s actually going to do, relaxing in the rather smart country house that is Chequers.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,456
    Taz said:



    Sage advice from the sport


    However, wet T-shirts work wonders. Get those man-nipples showing.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,547
    The most interesting thing to me about word clouds is that sometimes you see a few words coming through fairly strongly and other times there's one word sort of blaring out. A negative opinion that's blaring out must be a bit daunting for the person/organisation concerned.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,120

    Nigelb said:

    Those of a Kemi Badenoch sceptic nature will find the polling and the trend difficult to deal with.

    On the contrary, I think "Good, determined, useless, strong, unknown, competent Conservative" fits reasonably well.

    I rather like the word clouds.

    Nigel Farage is a massive racist.
    Not the complete story, though.

    Nigel Farage is a greedy, massive racist.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,189

    Nigelb said:

    Those of a Kemi Badenoch sceptic nature will find the polling and the trend difficult to deal with.

    On the contrary, I think "Good, determined, useless, strong, unknown, competent Conservative" fits reasonably well.

    I rather like the word clouds.

    Nigel Farage is a massive racist.
    Not the complete story, though.

    Nigel Farage is a greedy, massive racist.
    And short tempered, petulant and entitled.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,251

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2069671349933756810

    James Purnell basically confirms himself that he is to be chief of staff.

    Wiki tells me he was a leading light in blue labour in 2011...
    In 10 years will this be as celebrated as Brexit?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,251

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2069671349933756810

    James Purnell basically confirms himself that he is to be chief of staff.

    Wiki tells me he was a leading light in blue labour in 2011...
    In 10 years will this be as celebrated as Brexit?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,749
    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    Parliament is in recess from mid July to early September.

    So what difference does it make if Burnham takes over in mid July or September?

    Because if he takes over in mid July he can't actually do anything until September in any case.

    By "do anything" I mean actually change anything of substance. Of course he can talk on TV and do photo opportunities and generally go around sounding like a nice person.

    He can take the salary, the fancy car with a policeman driving it, and get in the air miles visiting other world leaders on that nice plane they let him use.

    Maybe even take some time to think about what he’s actually going to do, relaxing in the rather smart country house that is Chequers.
    Just like every other Prime Minister, then?

    Not sure what your problem with Burnham is apart from the fact he's a Labour Prime Minister, presumably?

    At least @Alanbrooke started sniping at Starmer after he'd been to the Palace and the car had got to Admiralty Arch on the way back to Downing Street.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,193
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Those of a Kemi Badenoch sceptic nature will find the polling and the trend difficult to deal with.

    On the contrary, I think "Good, determined, useless, strong, unknown, competent Conservative" fits reasonably well.

    I rather like the word clouds.

    Nigel Farage is a massive racist.
    He’s not that big.
    But he is extremely dense.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,046

    As Farage has been mentioned, I do want to repeat for any philanthropic crypto billionaires looking for someone virtuous to whom they can gift £5m for no particular reason and expecting no favours in return: I remain available.

    I'd be happy to receive a mere £1m in return for no political influence or favours.

    Any crypto billionaires reading can message me directly. It's a bargain compared to the money wasted on Nigel.

    On a completely unrelated note, does anyone know what Reform's policy on crypto is and whether it's changed on recent years?
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,742
    MelonB said:

    Taz said:



    Sage advice from the sport


    However, wet T-shirts work wonders. Get those man-nipples showing.
    Ah, many happy memories of wet T shirt competitions in classy midlands nightclubs in the late eighties with ladies with big eighties hair. The Britain we’ve lost !

    I’m more concerned about my stomach but, yes, they work wonders. We’re in the shade at the moment but later we won’t be and it’s over 30 degrees today.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,742
    Dopermean said:

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2069671349933756810

    James Purnell basically confirms himself that he is to be chief of staff.

    Wiki tells me he was a leading light in blue labour in 2011...
    In 10 years will this be as celebrated as Brexit?
    He’s also in a very very well paid job. Would he take the cut to serve his country for what may be a year or two.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,742
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Those of a Kemi Badenoch sceptic nature will find the polling and the trend difficult to deal with.

    On the contrary, I think "Good, determined, useless, strong, unknown, competent Conservative" fits reasonably well.

    I rather like the word clouds.

    Nigel Farage is a massive racist.
    Not the complete story, though.

    Nigel Farage is a greedy, massive racist.
    And short tempered, petulant and entitled.
    Like an angsty teen.

    Whatever the politics that’s not the sort of character traits I’d want in a PM.

    I’ve been neither pro nor against voting reform but his display over this has deffo pushed me into not voting for them next time.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,120

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/2069649219112071576

    Jones also confirms Burnham will borrow more. However mostly for infrastructure which is an excellent idea.

    Council house building.
    Put like that, it's pretty sensible, isn't it? Borrowing to create things that are both useful and should generate income.

    And, splendid as the profit motive is, in housebuilding it seems to lead to a throttling of supply.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,078
    edited 7:18AM

    New favourite Farage photo.

    I pressed pause on Nigel Farage being asked about the £5m gift yesterday



    https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/2069675925281653083

    Quite striking that Farage whose bird is called Ferrari was on Nick Ferrari’s show going on about buying Ferraris.

    Is there something on your mind, Nigel?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,641

    Nigelb said:

    Those of a Kemi Badenoch sceptic nature will find the polling and the trend difficult to deal with.

    On the contrary, I think "Good, determined, useless, strong, unknown, competent Conservative" fits reasonably well.

    I rather like the word clouds.

    Nigel Farage is a massive racist.
    Not the complete story, though.

    Nigel Farage is a greedy, massive racist.
    To do he latest word cloud justice, that should be

    Nigel Farage is a greedy, massive RACIST
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 6,031
    edited 7:19AM
    MelonB said:

    Happy June record day.

    Nothing to write home about. After all, we rarely get record breaking warmth these days. Just warmest spring on record this year (yet again), the hottest May day on record, and a measly June record. Hell, we've not even broken the all time record set in July 2022. And it'll be cooler by Sunday.

    And it's fine anyway because happy old ladies and gentlemen are promenading out in the lovely warmth.

    It is just summer, innit?

    Warmer overnight than predicted I think - it didn't drop below 20C here and was already a hideously muggy 24C before 07Z.

    The June record will definitely go today - and it is quite likely that the new record will only last until tomorrow.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,120

    Nigelb said:

    Those of a Kemi Badenoch sceptic nature will find the polling and the trend difficult to deal with.

    On the contrary, I think "Good, determined, useless, strong, unknown, competent Conservative" fits reasonably well.

    I rather like the word clouds.

    Nigel Farage is a massive racist.
    Not the complete story, though.

    Nigel Farage is a greedy, massive racist.
    To do he latest word cloud justice, that should be

    Nigel Farage is a greedy, massive RACIST
    Thing is, at least some Reformers are chill with the racism. Heck, there are a number who see it as a good thing. To a lesser extent, the same goes for the greed.

    The petulance is much harder to regard as a positive.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,742
    It looks like Purnell is definitely joining team Burnham

    A good appointment

    I hope the internet stuff about LARPING wealth tax buffoon Gary Stevenson being co-opted to develop wealth taxes is a sick joke

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2069671349933756810?s=61
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,233
    Proof if it were needed than PBers are on the money. They have been in the vanguard of the Kemi Badenoch renaissance since the Rayner defenestration.

    I still can't see it myself, but proof if needed, that I am wrong and you are all correct.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,742

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/2069649219112071576

    Jones also confirms Burnham will borrow more. However mostly for infrastructure which is an excellent idea.

    Council house building.
    Put like that, it's pretty sensible, isn't it? Borrowing to create things that are both useful and should generate income.

    And, splendid as the profit motive is, in housebuilding it seems to lead to a throttling of supply.
    Borrowing for investment in new labour speak was simply spending money on day to day stuff so if they do this, I cannot see an issue. As long as it is a proper market based return and not heavily subsidised.

    There is plenty of spare capacity in the house building industry. Vistry and Crest Nicholson are laying people off

    If,you can’t make a profit or adequate return doing something, why do it. I listened to a Bloomberg money podcast on housing. In some parts of London if a builder had the land for free they wouldn’t make any money. We need to encourage private businesses.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,350
    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    Parliament is in recess from mid July to early September.

    So what difference does it make if Burnham takes over in mid July or September?

    Because if he takes over in mid July he can't actually do anything until September in any case.

    By "do anything" I mean actually change anything of substance. Of course he can talk on TV and do photo opportunities and generally go around sounding like a nice person.

    He can take the salary, the fancy car with a policeman driving it, and get in the air miles visiting other world leaders on that nice plane they let him use.

    Maybe even take some time to think about what he’s actually going to do, relaxing in the rather smart country house that is Chequers.
    "He has no declared policy platform"

    ....Here are 6 weeks to hone his policy ideas for government

    "But he cannot actually DO anything"

    Isn't political opposition just a weird endeavour all round.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,852

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/2069649219112071576

    Jones also confirms Burnham will borrow more. However mostly for infrastructure which is an excellent idea.

    Council house building.
    Put like that, it's pretty sensible, isn't it? Borrowing to create things that are both useful and should generate income.

    And, splendid as the profit motive is, in housebuilding it seems to lead to a throttling of supply.
    No, it should be near bottom of the list for "infrastructure" spending.

    But, just like increasing welfare spending for families on UC, I expect it gets Labour backbenchers excited.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,742

    Nigelb said:

    Those of a Kemi Badenoch sceptic nature will find the polling and the trend difficult to deal with.

    On the contrary, I think "Good, determined, useless, strong, unknown, competent Conservative" fits reasonably well.

    I rather like the word clouds.

    Nigel Farage is a massive racist.
    Not the complete story, though.

    Nigel Farage is a greedy, massive racist.
    To do he latest word cloud justice, that should be

    Nigel Farage is a greedy, massive RACIST
    Thing is, at least some Reformers are chill with the racism. Heck, there are a number who see it as a good thing. To a lesser extent, the same goes for the greed.

    The petulance is much harder to regard as a positive.
    I doubt it, they’ve mostly gone Restore.

    The actual racists as opposed to those who don’t like the Boriswave, mass inward migration policies of the main parties who are deemed racist for not being happy clappy about it.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,515

    Proof if it were needed than PBers are on the money. They have been in the vanguard of the Kemi Badenoch renaissance since the Rayner defenestration.

    I still can't see it myself, but proof if needed, that I am wrong and you are all correct.

    Words on a chart mean fuck all frsnkly
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,742
    edited 7:28AM

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/2069649219112071576

    Jones also confirms Burnham will borrow more. However mostly for infrastructure which is an excellent idea.

    Council house building.
    Put like that, it's pretty sensible, isn't it? Borrowing to create things that are both useful and should generate income.

    And, splendid as the profit motive is, in housebuilding it seems to lead to a throttling of supply.
    No, it should be near bottom of the list for "infrastructure" spending.

    But, just like increasing welfare spending for families on UC, I expect it gets Labour backbenchers excited.
    Increasing welfare spending on UC and PIP is, in new labour terms, ‘investment’. The sort they’d borrow for. Got to buy those votes.

    UC and PIP and benefits spending will spike up under Burnham as he’s going to go back on the ILR delay of five years.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,852
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Those of a Kemi Badenoch sceptic nature will find the polling and the trend difficult to deal with.

    On the contrary, I think "Good, determined, useless, strong, unknown, competent Conservative" fits reasonably well.

    I rather like the word clouds.

    Nigel Farage is a massive racist.
    Not the complete story, though.

    Nigel Farage is a greedy, massive racist.
    And short tempered, petulant and entitled.
    Like an angsty teen.

    Whatever the politics that’s not the sort of character traits I’d want in a PM.

    I’ve been neither pro nor against voting reform but his display over this has deffo pushed me into not voting for them next time.
    Human side? He's probably tired and burned out as a party leader. He's done it before. He has a lifespan of just a few years in these roles before he's had enough.

    More widely, he's always wanted to be an insurgent into the Establishment rather than a member of it. I think that's what accounts for his self-sabotaging behaviour. He doesn't like the scrutiny. He's terrified by the prospect of actually being in charge.

    I wouldn't be surprised if someone else was leading Reform into the next election.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,398
    edited 7:30AM

    Taz said:



    Sage advice from the sport


    Everything can be a dildo if you're brave enough.
    "Without a base, without a trace." is the advice. Or, so I am told.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,742

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Those of a Kemi Badenoch sceptic nature will find the polling and the trend difficult to deal with.

    On the contrary, I think "Good, determined, useless, strong, unknown, competent Conservative" fits reasonably well.

    I rather like the word clouds.

    Nigel Farage is a massive racist.
    Not the complete story, though.

    Nigel Farage is a greedy, massive racist.
    And short tempered, petulant and entitled.
    Like an angsty teen.

    Whatever the politics that’s not the sort of character traits I’d want in a PM.

    I’ve been neither pro nor against voting reform but his display over this has deffo pushed me into not voting for them next time.
    Human side? He's probably tired and burned out as a party leader. He's done it before. He has a lifespan of just a few years in these roles before he's had enough.

    More widely, he's always wanted to be an insurgent into the Establishment rather than a member of it. I think that's what accounts for his self-sabotaging behaviour. He doesn't like the scrutiny. He's terrified by the prospect of actually being in charge.

    I wouldn't be surprised if someone else was leading Reform into the next election.
    Neither would I Casino, Tice probably who is a decent communicator.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,527

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Those of a Kemi Badenoch sceptic nature will find the polling and the trend difficult to deal with.

    On the contrary, I think "Good, determined, useless, strong, unknown, competent Conservative" fits reasonably well.

    I rather like the word clouds.

    Nigel Farage is a massive racist.
    Not the complete story, though.

    Nigel Farage is a greedy, massive racist.
    And short tempered, petulant and entitled.
    Like an angsty teen.

    Whatever the politics that’s not the sort of character traits I’d want in a PM.

    I’ve been neither pro nor against voting reform but his display over this has deffo pushed me into not voting for them next time.
    Human side? He's probably tired and burned out as a party leader. He's done it before. He has a lifespan of just a few years in these roles before he's had enough.

    More widely, he's always wanted to be an insurgent into the Establishment rather than a member of it. I think that's what accounts for his self-sabotaging behaviour. He doesn't like the scrutiny. He's terrified by the prospect of actually being in charge.

    I wouldn't be surprised if someone else was leading Reform into the next election.
    Yes, the vehicle for the inevitable Truss comeback I first predicted on here 3.5 years ago (buffs nails)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,032
    Crimea is still on fire:

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/2069555503429042606

    The Ukranian project to starve the Russians out of the peninsula appears to be going according to plan.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,032

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Those of a Kemi Badenoch sceptic nature will find the polling and the trend difficult to deal with.

    On the contrary, I think "Good, determined, useless, strong, unknown, competent Conservative" fits reasonably well.

    I rather like the word clouds.

    Nigel Farage is a massive racist.
    Not the complete story, though.

    Nigel Farage is a greedy, massive racist.
    And short tempered, petulant and entitled.
    Like an angsty teen.

    Whatever the politics that’s not the sort of character traits I’d want in a PM.

    I’ve been neither pro nor against voting reform but his display over this has deffo pushed me into not voting for them next time.
    Human side? He's probably tired and burned out as a party leader. He's done it before. He has a lifespan of just a few years in these roles before he's had enough.

    More widely, he's always wanted to be an insurgent into the Establishment rather than a member of it. I think that's what accounts for his self-sabotaging behaviour. He doesn't like the scrutiny. He's terrified by the prospect of actually being in charge.

    I wouldn't be surprised if someone else was leading Reform into the next election.
    I wonder if, when Farage goes, the likes of Rupert Lowe might come back into Reform?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,078
    edited 7:33AM

    Proof if it were needed than PBers are on the money. They have been in the vanguard of the Kemi Badenoch renaissance since the Rayner defenestration.

    I still can't see it myself, but proof if needed, that I am wrong and you are all correct.

    Despite rising public approval for the gap toothed goddess, there doesn’t seem to be the slightest shift in the public opinion that the Tory party is shit.
    The settled conclusion might suggest that the Tory party is indeed shit.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,032
    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    Parliament is in recess from mid July to early September.

    So what difference does it make if Burnham takes over in mid July or September?

    Because if he takes over in mid July he can't actually do anything until September in any case.

    By "do anything" I mean actually change anything of substance. Of course he can talk on TV and do photo opportunities and generally go around sounding like a nice person.

    He can take the salary, the fancy car with a policeman driving it, and get in the air miles visiting other world leaders on that nice plane they let him use.

    Maybe even take some time to think about what he’s actually going to do, relaxing in the rather smart country house that is Chequers.
    Just like every other Prime Minister, then?

    Not sure what your problem with Burnham is apart from the fact he's a Labour Prime Minister, presumably?

    At least @Alanbrooke started sniping at Starmer after he'd been to the Palace and the car had got to Admiralty Arch on the way back to Downing Street.
    My only problem with him is that he’s just as much of an empty suit as the guy he’s replacing.

    There’s no vision, he’s just Starmer Mk II, but with the remains of a Northern accent left after Cambridge kicked most of it out of him.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,070
    A reminder Farage gave this crank a prominent slot at the Reform conference

    Dr Aseem Malhotra says he believes Shane Warne's death was connected to the COVID vaccine.

    Tonight in Karl Weekly, he explains why he reached that conclusion after reviewing the post-mortem findings and why he believes more questions need to be asked.

    Watch the full interview in Karl Weekly – link in bio.


    https://x.com/karlstefanovic/status/2069677051347415541

    definitely wasnt the smoking, the diet of fast food and baked beans and drinking piss for 20 years.....it definitely wasn't the cocaine or the Viagra, it was the VAX sheeple🫤

    https://x.com/CmonMick/status/2069684691620491620
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,742
    Darren Jones positioning himself already as the anti Burnham

    https://x.com/bethrigby/status/2069660346629972055?s=61
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,579
    AnneJGP said:

    Wait & see seems to be the watchword for every area of life for me nowadays.

    Interesting. The underlying reasons for that are, it seems to me, entirely philosophical and world viewish rather than political. Partly it's inevitable that we must wait and see because the nature of time and its ordering, so that everything doesn't happen all at once, means that the future hasn't happened yet. And it isn't going to start doing so. as all punters know.

    'Wait and see' about everything is the opposite of the excellent and ancient 'mindfulness' which is supposed to be a thing in these media soaked days. All the great wisdom people emphasise that unless you focus on 'now' - the moment memorably described by CS Lewis and maybe others as the point at which time touches eternity - you will be waiting and seeing a long time.

    Today is the traditional midsummer day.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,749
    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    Parliament is in recess from mid July to early September.

    So what difference does it make if Burnham takes over in mid July or September?

    Because if he takes over in mid July he can't actually do anything until September in any case.

    By "do anything" I mean actually change anything of substance. Of course he can talk on TV and do photo opportunities and generally go around sounding like a nice person.

    He can take the salary, the fancy car with a policeman driving it, and get in the air miles visiting other world leaders on that nice plane they let him use.

    Maybe even take some time to think about what he’s actually going to do, relaxing in the rather smart country house that is Chequers.
    Just like every other Prime Minister, then?

    Not sure what your problem with Burnham is apart from the fact he's a Labour Prime Minister, presumably?

    At least @Alanbrooke started sniping at Starmer after he'd been to the Palace and the car had got to Admiralty Arch on the way back to Downing Street.
    My only problem with him is that he’s just as much of an empty suit as the guy he’s replacing.

    There’s no vision, he’s just Starmer Mk II, but with the remains of a Northern accent left after Cambridge kicked most of it out of him.
    What kind of a Prime Minister do you want?

    There's no "vision" anywhere else especially not from the Conservatives or Reform. I suppose the Greens and Restore have "visions" of a sort but neither are compelling or practical.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,547
    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    Parliament is in recess from mid July to early September.

    So what difference does it make if Burnham takes over in mid July or September?

    Because if he takes over in mid July he can't actually do anything until September in any case.

    By "do anything" I mean actually change anything of substance. Of course he can talk on TV and do photo opportunities and generally go around sounding like a nice person.

    He can take the salary, the fancy car with a policeman driving it, and get in the air miles visiting other world leaders on that nice plane they let him use.

    Maybe even take some time to think about what he’s actually going to do, relaxing in the rather smart country house that is Chequers.
    Just like every other Prime Minister, then?

    Not sure what your problem with Burnham is apart from the fact he's a Labour Prime Minister, presumably?

    At least @Alanbrooke started sniping at Starmer after he'd been to the Palace and the car had got to Admiralty Arch on the way back to Downing Street.
    My only problem with him is that he’s just as much of an empty suit as the guy he’s replacing.

    There’s no vision, he’s just Starmer Mk II, but with the remains of a Northern accent left after Cambridge kicked most of it out of him.
    Probably his first big test will be his response to whatever atrocity happens next.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,749
    Brixian59 said:

    Proof if it were needed than PBers are on the money. They have been in the vanguard of the Kemi Badenoch renaissance since the Rayner defenestration.

    I still can't see it myself, but proof if needed, that I am wrong and you are all correct.

    Words on a chart mean fuck all frsnkly
    True but the Tories made net gains in London in May and as long as you don't mention Sutton, Havering and the elections outside London such as Surrey, they didn't do too badly.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,350
    Can anyone explain the key events in Badenoch now being seen positively?

    She has picked some fights, sometimes unwisely, she has seen off Starmer without being at all stellar at the despatch box. What memes, what bits of feed, what bot lines are not getting to me here? I'm microsegmented out of the Kemi revival, it seems.

    Because it's something of a mystery not just to me, but by the sounds of things to a lot of people on here.

    What are you guys seeing that I'm not?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,078
    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    Parliament is in recess from mid July to early September.

    So what difference does it make if Burnham takes over in mid July or September?

    Because if he takes over in mid July he can't actually do anything until September in any case.

    By "do anything" I mean actually change anything of substance. Of course he can talk on TV and do photo opportunities and generally go around sounding like a nice person.

    He can take the salary, the fancy car with a policeman driving it, and get in the air miles visiting other world leaders on that nice plane they let him use.

    Maybe even take some time to think about what he’s actually going to do, relaxing in the rather smart country house that is Chequers.
    Just like every other Prime Minister, then?

    Not sure what your problem with Burnham is apart from the fact he's a Labour Prime Minister, presumably?

    At least @Alanbrooke started sniping at Starmer after he'd been to the Palace and the car had got to Admiralty Arch on the way back to Downing Street.
    My only problem with him is that he’s just as much of an empty suit as the guy he’s replacing.

    There’s no vision, he’s just Starmer Mk II, but with the remains of a Northern accent left after Cambridge kicked most of it out of him.
    I am amazed that such an unbiased political observer as yourself thinks that a pol to the left of Genghis Khan is visionless empty suit. Analytical gold!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,070
    Pro_Rata said:

    Can anyone explain the key events in Badenoch now being seen positively?

    She has picked some fights, sometimes unwisely, she has seen off Starmer without being at all stellar at the despatch box. What memes, what bits of feed, what bot lines are not getting to me here? I'm microsegmented out of the Kemi revival, it seems.

    Because it's something of a mystery not just to me, but by the sounds of things to a lot of people on here.

    What are you guys seeing that I'm not?

    A pollster said to me his explanation is that she looks impressive compared to Starmer and Farage.

    In isolation her ratings are more Ed Miliband than David Cameron.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,001
    Pro_Rata said:

    Can anyone explain the key events in Badenoch now being seen positively?

    She has picked some fights, sometimes unwisely, she has seen off Starmer without being at all stellar at the despatch box. What memes, what bits of feed, what bot lines are not getting to me here? I'm microsegmented out of the Kemi revival, it seems.

    Because it's something of a mystery not just to me, but by the sounds of things to a lot of people on here.

    What are you guys seeing that I'm not?

    Mr. Rata, I have mixed views on this. I don't buy into the 'she's great' and have been a bit surprised so many are now so pro-Badenoch. However, it is worth noting the good leader ratings (relatively) and the Aberdeen South by-election victory. I do think her judgement is sometimes significantly lacking. Starmer, not Badenoch, was right to be wary of joining Trump's Versailles War.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 10,178
    AnneJGP said:

    The most interesting thing to me about word clouds is that sometimes you see a few words coming through fairly strongly and other times there's one word sort of blaring out. A negative opinion that's blaring out must be a bit daunting for the person/organisation concerned.

    Can be misleading too:

    Starmer: Have you seen my word cloud? One of the biggest words is 'good'!
    Lackey: Unfortunately, the other word that stands out is 'not'
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,547
    algarkirk said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Wait & see seems to be the watchword for every area of life for me nowadays.

    Interesting. The underlying reasons for that are, it seems to me, entirely philosophical and world viewish rather than political. Partly it's inevitable that we must wait and see because the nature of time and its ordering, so that everything doesn't happen all at once, means that the future hasn't happened yet. And it isn't going to start doing so. as all punters know.

    'Wait and see' about everything is the opposite of the excellent and ancient 'mindfulness' which is supposed to be a thing in these media soaked days. All the great wisdom people emphasise that unless you focus on 'now' - the moment memorably described by CS Lewis and maybe others as the point at which time touches eternity - you will be waiting and seeing a long time.

    Today is the traditional midsummer day.
    That's a really interesting perspective, thank you. To me wait & see is the inverse of what you describe - in the present moment most things are unresolved, until their own moment arrives.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 10,178
    edited 7:46AM
    carnforth said:

    Taz said:



    Sage advice from the sport


    Everything can be a dildo if you're brave enough.
    "Without a base, without a trace." is the advice. Or, so I am told.
    Wes Streeting's leadership ambitions?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,579

    Proof if it were needed than PBers are on the money. They have been in the vanguard of the Kemi Badenoch renaissance since the Rayner defenestration.

    I still can't see it myself, but proof if needed, that I am wrong and you are all correct.

    Politics is about what is possible. Only two parties can lead the next government, reinforced by the fact that Reform is self incinerating in a word cloud of racism, corruption and 'pure rage' leading to violence about selected crimes.

    One doubtful thing is now clear: it is very likely that we know who will lead Labour in the next election. It is only fairly likely that we know about leading the Tories. Kemi is about evens to stay till 2029.

    If Burnham fails, the Tories, however improbably, lead the next government. SFAICS the Tories don't have anyone capable of winning against a successful and resurgent Burnham. But there are lots of votes going spare for a party coming second, and most of those are going to look to the Tories. To do so, people have to have a reasonably positive view of Kemi. Which increasingly they have. I am a Tory, but don't share that view of Kemi.

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,527
    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    Parliament is in recess from mid July to early September.

    So what difference does it make if Burnham takes over in mid July or September?

    Because if he takes over in mid July he can't actually do anything until September in any case.

    By "do anything" I mean actually change anything of substance. Of course he can talk on TV and do photo opportunities and generally go around sounding like a nice person.

    He can take the salary, the fancy car with a policeman driving it, and get in the air miles visiting other world leaders on that nice plane they let him use.

    Maybe even take some time to think about what he’s actually going to do, relaxing in the rather smart country house that is Chequers.
    Just like every other Prime Minister, then?

    Not sure what your problem with Burnham is apart from the fact he's a Labour Prime Minister, presumably?

    At least @Alanbrooke started sniping at Starmer after he'd been to the Palace and the car had got to Admiralty Arch on the way back to Downing Street.
    My only problem with him is that he’s just as much of an empty suit as the guy he’s replacing.

    There’s no vision, he’s just Starmer Mk II, but with the remains of a Northern accent left after Cambridge kicked most of it out of him.
    Have you read his book? At least he’s taken the time to set something out in writing however much one might disagree. Many criticisms of Burnham can be made but he’s set out his philosophy in a way SKS didn’t
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,798
    Tenth anniversary today of David Cameron's resignation following the Brexit referendum debacle.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,601
    Two things the next Chancellor should immediately promise are:

    1) No more increases in business taxation
    2) No more increases in pension taxation

    Reeves twice allowing months of speculation about increases in business and pension taxation had detrimental effects on business investment and pension planning.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,579
    Pro_Rata said:

    Can anyone explain the key events in Badenoch now being seen positively?

    She has picked some fights, sometimes unwisely, she has seen off Starmer without being at all stellar at the despatch box. What memes, what bits of feed, what bot lines are not getting to me here? I'm microsegmented out of the Kemi revival, it seems.

    Because it's something of a mystery not just to me, but by the sounds of things to a lot of people on here.

    What are you guys seeing that I'm not?

    Mostly this: She is the leader of a party no longer consorting with scorpions and polecats which is the only alternative party of government at a moment when Reform is spontaneously combusting. That makes her relatively better. all politics is relative.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,579
    AnneJGP said:

    algarkirk said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Wait & see seems to be the watchword for every area of life for me nowadays.

    Interesting. The underlying reasons for that are, it seems to me, entirely philosophical and world viewish rather than political. Partly it's inevitable that we must wait and see because the nature of time and its ordering, so that everything doesn't happen all at once, means that the future hasn't happened yet. And it isn't going to start doing so. as all punters know.

    'Wait and see' about everything is the opposite of the excellent and ancient 'mindfulness' which is supposed to be a thing in these media soaked days. All the great wisdom people emphasise that unless you focus on 'now' - the moment memorably described by CS Lewis and maybe others as the point at which time touches eternity - you will be waiting and seeing a long time.

    Today is the traditional midsummer day.
    That's a really interesting perspective, thank you. To me wait & see is the inverse of what you describe - in the present moment most things are unresolved, until their own moment arrives.
    Thanks. The nature of time means nothing is ever resolved from the perspective of anyone still sentient enough to be within its flow. It's like resolving a fast flowing beck.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,300
    Selebian said:

    AnneJGP said:

    The most interesting thing to me about word clouds is that sometimes you see a few words coming through fairly strongly and other times there's one word sort of blaring out. A negative opinion that's blaring out must be a bit daunting for the person/organisation concerned.

    Can be misleading too:

    Starmer: Have you seen my word cloud? One of the biggest words is 'good'!
    Lackey: Unfortunately, the other word that stands out is 'not'
    Or “riddance”…
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,798
    I like these word clouds. They look pretty. I imagine being asked to provide my word and struggling to think of something profound.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,001
    algarkirk said:

    AnneJGP said:

    algarkirk said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Wait & see seems to be the watchword for every area of life for me nowadays.

    Interesting. The underlying reasons for that are, it seems to me, entirely philosophical and world viewish rather than political. Partly it's inevitable that we must wait and see because the nature of time and its ordering, so that everything doesn't happen all at once, means that the future hasn't happened yet. And it isn't going to start doing so. as all punters know.

    'Wait and see' about everything is the opposite of the excellent and ancient 'mindfulness' which is supposed to be a thing in these media soaked days. All the great wisdom people emphasise that unless you focus on 'now' - the moment memorably described by CS Lewis and maybe others as the point at which time touches eternity - you will be waiting and seeing a long time.

    Today is the traditional midsummer day.
    That's a really interesting perspective, thank you. To me wait & see is the inverse of what you describe - in the present moment most things are unresolved, until their own moment arrives.
    Thanks. The nature of time means nothing is ever resolved from the perspective of anyone still sentient enough to be within its flow. It's like resolving a fast flowing beck.
    reminds me of Picard saying Now is the most important time. It will never come again.
  • My credibility was questioned however one of my sources
    near the top of the Labour Party (likely to be demoted so won’t be as useful) tipped a Burnham coronation weeks ago. I posted as much here.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,193
    Taz said:

    Darren Jones positioning himself already as the anti Burnham

    https://x.com/bethrigby/status/2069660346629972055?s=61

    That will last about as long as it takes him to accept a cabinet post.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,601
    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    Parliament is in recess from mid July to early September.

    So what difference does it make if Burnham takes over in mid July or September?

    Because if he takes over in mid July he can't actually do anything until September in any case.

    By "do anything" I mean actually change anything of substance. Of course he can talk on TV and do photo opportunities and generally go around sounding like a nice person.

    He can take the salary, the fancy car with a policeman driving it, and get in the air miles visiting other world leaders on that nice plane they let him use.

    Maybe even take some time to think about what he’s actually going to do, relaxing in the rather smart country house that is Chequers.
    Just like every other Prime Minister, then?

    Not sure what your problem with Burnham is apart from the fact he's a Labour Prime Minister, presumably?

    At least @Alanbrooke started sniping at Starmer after he'd been to the Palace and the car had got to Admiralty Arch on the way back to Downing Street.
    My only problem with him is that he’s just as much of an empty suit as the guy he’s replacing.

    There’s no vision, he’s just Starmer Mk II, but with the remains of a Northern accent left after Cambridge kicked most of it out of him.
    Have you read his book? At least he’s taken the time to set something out in writing however much one might disagree. Many criticisms of Burnham can be made but he’s set out his philosophy in a way SKS didn’t
    Well the profound thoughts Burnham is currently associated with are his bond markets and waspi comments.

    Which rather give the impression that he's insecure, vacuous and with little clue as to what he's talking about.


  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,579
    edited 8:02AM
    FF43 said:

    Tenth anniversary today of David Cameron's resignation following the Brexit referendum debacle.

    The principal event, among many, which has caused so much chaos. The moment at which it became clear that a government had failed to plan for 50% of the only two possible outcomes of their own policy. One of the greatest policy disasters since the war.

    A forerunner of the moment in 2024 when it became clear that Starmer had no secret either.

    If Burnham has a plan it might help.

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,527

    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    Parliament is in recess from mid July to early September.

    So what difference does it make if Burnham takes over in mid July or September?

    Because if he takes over in mid July he can't actually do anything until September in any case.

    By "do anything" I mean actually change anything of substance. Of course he can talk on TV and do photo opportunities and generally go around sounding like a nice person.

    He can take the salary, the fancy car with a policeman driving it, and get in the air miles visiting other world leaders on that nice plane they let him use.

    Maybe even take some time to think about what he’s actually going to do, relaxing in the rather smart country house that is Chequers.
    Just like every other Prime Minister, then?

    Not sure what your problem with Burnham is apart from the fact he's a Labour Prime Minister, presumably?

    At least @Alanbrooke started sniping at Starmer after he'd been to the Palace and the car had got to Admiralty Arch on the way back to Downing Street.
    My only problem with him is that he’s just as much of an empty suit as the guy he’s replacing.

    There’s no vision, he’s just Starmer Mk II, but with the remains of a Northern accent left after Cambridge kicked most of it out of him.
    Have you read his book? At least he’s taken the time to set something out in writing however much one might disagree. Many criticisms of Burnham can be made but he’s set out his philosophy in a way SKS didn’t
    Well the profound thoughts Burnham is currently associated with are his bond markets and waspi comments.

    Which rather give the impression that he's insecure, vacuous and with little clue as to what he's talking about.


    That’s not relevant here. The position posited was that he was an “empty suit” like SKS. You’re making value propositions on some positions he has or has not taken, which is a different matter entirely.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,078
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Darren Jones positioning himself already as the anti Burnham

    https://x.com/bethrigby/status/2069660346629972055?s=61

    That will last about as long as it takes him to accept a cabinet post.
    lol, BBC has just announced that Darren has ruled himself out.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,734
    Taz said:

    It looks like Purnell is definitely joining team Burnham

    A good appointment

    I hope the internet stuff about LARPING wealth tax buffoon Gary Stevenson being co-opted to develop wealth taxes is a sick joke

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2069671349933756810?s=61

    Yes, nothing says fresh start more than hiring tired old Blairites.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,527
    Taz said:

    Darren Jones positioning himself already as the anti Burnham

    https://x.com/bethrigby/status/2069660346629972055?s=61

    Possibly the quickest death of any PB take in history
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,233
    edited 8:08AM

    Pro_Rata said:

    Can anyone explain the key events in Badenoch now being seen positively?

    She has picked some fights, sometimes unwisely, she has seen off Starmer without being at all stellar at the despatch box. What memes, what bits of feed, what bot lines are not getting to me here? I'm microsegmented out of the Kemi revival, it seems.

    Because it's something of a mystery not just to me, but by the sounds of things to a lot of people on here.

    What are you guys seeing that I'm not?

    Mr. Rata, I have mixed views on this. I don't buy into the 'she's great' and have been a bit surprised so many are now so pro-Badenoch. However, it is worth noting the good leader ratings (relatively) and the Aberdeen South by-election victory. I do think her judgement is sometimes significantly lacking. Starmer, not Badenoch, was right to be wary of joining Trump's Versailles War.
    I had forgotten that and it is a whopper of an error. That looks more like Starmer rather than Badenoch getting a big call right. Although she has enough sauce to claim Starmer was merely following her lead.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,734
    FF43 said:

    I like these word clouds. They look pretty. I imagine being asked to provide my word and struggling to think of something profound.

    Pb should add a word-cloud creation button for individual posters.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,527
    algarkirk said:

    FF43 said:

    Tenth anniversary today of David Cameron's resignation following the Brexit referendum debacle.

    The principal event, among many, which has caused so much chaos. The moment at which it became clear that a government had failed to plan for 50% of the only two possible outcomes of their own policy. One of the greatest policy disasters since the war.

    A forerunner of the moment in 2024 when it became clear that Starmer had no secret either.

    If Burnham has a plan it might help.

    Read his book. I’ve not yet, just ordered a copy, but it exists for him to be judged against.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,742
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Darren Jones positioning himself already as the anti Burnham

    https://x.com/bethrigby/status/2069660346629972055?s=61

    That will last about as long as it takes him to accept a cabinet post.
    You cynic !!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,734
    FF43 said:

    Tenth anniversary today of David Cameron's resignation following the Brexit referendum debacle.

    And Lionel Messi's birthday. 39 today so perhaps too old to relive the glory days of the five World Cup goals he scored when 38.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 600

    Proof if it were needed than PBers are on the money. They have been in the vanguard of the Kemi Badenoch renaissance since the Rayner defenestration.

    I still can't see it myself, but proof if needed, that I am wrong and you are all correct.

    Despite rising public approval for the gap toothed goddess, there doesn’t seem to be the slightest shift in the public opinion that the Tory party is shit.
    The settled conclusion might suggest that the Tory party is indeed shit.
    That Aberdeen by-election sticking in your throat.....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,233

    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    Parliament is in recess from mid July to early September.

    So what difference does it make if Burnham takes over in mid July or September?

    Because if he takes over in mid July he can't actually do anything until September in any case.

    By "do anything" I mean actually change anything of substance. Of course he can talk on TV and do photo opportunities and generally go around sounding like a nice person.

    He can take the salary, the fancy car with a policeman driving it, and get in the air miles visiting other world leaders on that nice plane they let him use.

    Maybe even take some time to think about what he’s actually going to do, relaxing in the rather smart country house that is Chequers.
    Just like every other Prime Minister, then?

    Not sure what your problem with Burnham is apart from the fact he's a Labour Prime Minister, presumably?

    At least @Alanbrooke started sniping at Starmer after he'd been to the Palace and the car had got to Admiralty Arch on the way back to Downing Street.
    My only problem with him is that he’s just as much of an empty suit as the guy he’s replacing.

    There’s no vision, he’s just Starmer Mk II, but with the remains of a Northern accent left after Cambridge kicked most of it out of him.
    Have you read his book? At least he’s taken the time to set something out in writing however much one might disagree. Many criticisms of Burnham can be made but he’s set out his philosophy in a way SKS didn’t
    Well the profound thoughts Burnham is currently associated with are his bond markets and waspi comments.

    Which rather give the impression that he's insecure, vacuous and with little clue as to what he's talking about.


    And you, a fan of Boris Johnson!
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,601
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    Parliament is in recess from mid July to early September.

    So what difference does it make if Burnham takes over in mid July or September?

    Because if he takes over in mid July he can't actually do anything until September in any case.

    By "do anything" I mean actually change anything of substance. Of course he can talk on TV and do photo opportunities and generally go around sounding like a nice person.

    He can take the salary, the fancy car with a policeman driving it, and get in the air miles visiting other world leaders on that nice plane they let him use.

    Maybe even take some time to think about what he’s actually going to do, relaxing in the rather smart country house that is Chequers.
    Just like every other Prime Minister, then?

    Not sure what your problem with Burnham is apart from the fact he's a Labour Prime Minister, presumably?

    At least @Alanbrooke started sniping at Starmer after he'd been to the Palace and the car had got to Admiralty Arch on the way back to Downing Street.
    My only problem with him is that he’s just as much of an empty suit as the guy he’s replacing.

    There’s no vision, he’s just Starmer Mk II, but with the remains of a Northern accent left after Cambridge kicked most of it out of him.
    Have you read his book? At least he’s taken the time to set something out in writing however much one might disagree. Many criticisms of Burnham can be made but he’s set out his philosophy in a way SKS didn’t
    Well the profound thoughts Burnham is currently associated with are his bond markets and waspi comments.

    Which rather give the impression that he's insecure, vacuous and with little clue as to what he's talking about.


    That’s not relevant here. The position posited was that he was an “empty suit” like SKS. You’re making value propositions on some positions he has or has not taken, which is a different matter entirely.
    Well if its positions that he hasn't taken why was he mouthing off about them ?

    Perhaps because he is vacuous, insecure and with little clue as to what he's talking about ?

    As a reminder there was absolutely no need for Burnham to talk about bond markets last year yet he chose to do so and there was absolutely no need for Burnham to talk about waspi this month yet he chose to do so.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,078
    DougSeal said:

    Taz said:

    Darren Jones positioning himself already as the anti Burnham

    https://x.com/bethrigby/status/2069660346629972055?s=61

    Possibly the quickest death of any PB take in history
    Nothing will surpass the Venezuelan false flag operation of 03/01/26.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,233
    scampi25 said:

    Proof if it were needed than PBers are on the money. They have been in the vanguard of the Kemi Badenoch renaissance since the Rayner defenestration.

    I still can't see it myself, but proof if needed, that I am wrong and you are all correct.

    Despite rising public approval for the gap toothed goddess, there doesn’t seem to be the slightest shift in the public opinion that the Tory party is shit.
    The settled conclusion might suggest that the Tory party is indeed shit.
    That Aberdeen by-election sticking in your throat.....
    Of course the flip side is Makerfield.

    Makerfield had specific local issues which lead to some unusual voting patterns.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,527

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    Parliament is in recess from mid July to early September.

    So what difference does it make if Burnham takes over in mid July or September?

    Because if he takes over in mid July he can't actually do anything until September in any case.

    By "do anything" I mean actually change anything of substance. Of course he can talk on TV and do photo opportunities and generally go around sounding like a nice person.

    He can take the salary, the fancy car with a policeman driving it, and get in the air miles visiting other world leaders on that nice plane they let him use.

    Maybe even take some time to think about what he’s actually going to do, relaxing in the rather smart country house that is Chequers.
    Just like every other Prime Minister, then?

    Not sure what your problem with Burnham is apart from the fact he's a Labour Prime Minister, presumably?

    At least @Alanbrooke started sniping at Starmer after he'd been to the Palace and the car had got to Admiralty Arch on the way back to Downing Street.
    My only problem with him is that he’s just as much of an empty suit as the guy he’s replacing.

    There’s no vision, he’s just Starmer Mk II, but with the remains of a Northern accent left after Cambridge kicked most of it out of him.
    Have you read his book? At least he’s taken the time to set something out in writing however much one might disagree. Many criticisms of Burnham can be made but he’s set out his philosophy in a way SKS didn’t
    Well the profound thoughts Burnham is currently associated with are his bond markets and waspi comments.

    Which rather give the impression that he's insecure, vacuous and with little clue as to what he's talking about.


    That’s not relevant here. The position posited was that he was an “empty suit” like SKS. You’re making value propositions on some positions he has or has not taken, which is a different matter entirely.
    Well if its positions that he hasn't taken why was he mouthing off about them ?

    Perhaps because he is vacuous, insecure and with little clue as to what he's talking about ?

    As a reminder there was absolutely no need for Burnham to talk about bond markets last year yet he chose to do so and there was absolutely no need for Burnham to talk about waspi this month yet he chose to do so.
    What makes you think I give a fuck? You’re (probably deliberately) misinterpreting me to goad me into an argument about Burnham’s qualities, when my position was merely that Burnham has a whole book setting out his philosophy, without comment on its quality. This has nothing to do with that. Go find a Burnham acolyte to argue with. I’m not one.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,396
    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    Parliament is in recess from mid July to early September.

    So what difference does it make if Burnham takes over in mid July or September?

    Because if he takes over in mid July he can't actually do anything until September in any case.

    By "do anything" I mean actually change anything of substance. Of course he can talk on TV and do photo opportunities and generally go around sounding like a nice person.

    He can take the salary, the fancy car with a policeman driving it, and get in the air miles visiting other world leaders on that nice plane they let him use.

    Maybe even take some time to think about what he’s actually going to do, relaxing in the rather smart country house that is Chequers.
    Just like every other Prime Minister, then?

    Not sure what your problem with Burnham is apart from the fact he's a Labour Prime Minister, presumably?

    At least @Alanbrooke started sniping at Starmer after he'd been to the Palace and the car had got to Admiralty Arch on the way back to Downing Street.
    My only problem with him is that he’s just as much of an empty suit as the guy he’s replacing.

    There’s no vision, he’s just Starmer Mk II, but with the remains of a Northern accent left after Cambridge kicked most of it out of him.
    Have you read his book? At least he’s taken the time to set something out in writing however much one might disagree. Many criticisms of Burnham can be made but he’s set out his philosophy in a way SKS didn’t
    The Thoughts of Burnham Now
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,222
    Kemi will be pleased she mainly has positive scores as does Burnham. Farage will be concerned 'good' had been replaced by 'racist' as the main attribute given to him, although he is seen as an attribute to his party as is Burnham and Badenoch and as Starmer was not for Labour,

    Burnham should give Labour a bounce given Labour, LD and Green and even Tory voters see him as an asset to his party even if Reform voters do not. Kemi will also be encouraged by the fact every party's voters except the Greens see her as an asset. She will also be pleased she polls slightly better with Reform voters at 40% than Farage does with Tory voters at 39%
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,193

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Darren Jones positioning himself already as the anti Burnham

    https://x.com/bethrigby/status/2069660346629972055?s=61

    That will last about as long as it takes him to accept a cabinet post.
    lol, BBC has just announced that Darren has ruled himself out.
    A few interesting comments (Guardian).

    ..Separately, when it came to Burnham’s plans, Jones said “there’s room to borrow a little bit more” for specific projects.

    He also referred to concerns from some MPs about who would emerge as a new chancellor if Burnham moves – as expected – to replace Rachel Reeves..

    ..Asked for his view of Miliband as chancellor, Jones said: “I’m not going to get into personalities.” But setting out his “tests” for who takes on the role, he said: “I think the next chancellor needs to be able to have a clear view about the political economy and understand how the Treasury works.

    “I think they need to have an important relationship with the prime minister, because, quite frankly, in many circumstances the chancellor in the Treasury is more powerful than the prime minister in Downing Street.

    “So, you have to have someone that’s going to enable the delivery of the prime minister’s priorities and not try to control the prime minister. And that relationship is really critical.


    “You also need a chancellor that can reassure the markets, reassure the trade unions and reassure the parliamentary Labour party, and by extension the public.”

    Asked whether Miliband fell short of his tests, Jones said: “I will let you mark those tests, but those are the tests I think need to be met.”..


    I agree with the bolded bit, so I hope it really isn't Milliband.
    Streeting would probably pass that test, as he doesn't have a strong base in the party.

    There's also the possibility of an old lag like Pat McFadden.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,601

    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    Parliament is in recess from mid July to early September.

    So what difference does it make if Burnham takes over in mid July or September?

    Because if he takes over in mid July he can't actually do anything until September in any case.

    By "do anything" I mean actually change anything of substance. Of course he can talk on TV and do photo opportunities and generally go around sounding like a nice person.

    He can take the salary, the fancy car with a policeman driving it, and get in the air miles visiting other world leaders on that nice plane they let him use.

    Maybe even take some time to think about what he’s actually going to do, relaxing in the rather smart country house that is Chequers.
    Just like every other Prime Minister, then?

    Not sure what your problem with Burnham is apart from the fact he's a Labour Prime Minister, presumably?

    At least @Alanbrooke started sniping at Starmer after he'd been to the Palace and the car had got to Admiralty Arch on the way back to Downing Street.
    My only problem with him is that he’s just as much of an empty suit as the guy he’s replacing.

    There’s no vision, he’s just Starmer Mk II, but with the remains of a Northern accent left after Cambridge kicked most of it out of him.
    Have you read his book? At least he’s taken the time to set something out in writing however much one might disagree. Many criticisms of Burnham can be made but he’s set out his philosophy in a way SKS didn’t
    Well the profound thoughts Burnham is currently associated with are his bond markets and waspi comments.

    Which rather give the impression that he's insecure, vacuous and with little clue as to what he's talking about.


    And you, a fan of Boris Johnson!
    Not a fan, a tolerator.

    Boris had his uses, I never expected that he would have zero self-control or that the Conservative party would put no controls over him.

    That Labour are so enthused about their equivalent of Boris does bring to mind the history repeats itself quote.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,078
    edited 8:23AM
    scampi25 said:

    Proof if it were needed than PBers are on the money. They have been in the vanguard of the Kemi Badenoch renaissance since the Rayner defenestration.

    I still can't see it myself, but proof if needed, that I am wrong and you are all correct.

    Despite rising public approval for the gap toothed goddess, there doesn’t seem to be the slightest shift in the public opinion that the Tory party is shit.
    The settled conclusion might suggest that the Tory party is indeed shit.
    That Aberdeen by-election sticking in your throat.....
    If you think Kemi has some mysterious positive effect in Aberdeen (a place I come from) but not in national polling I have a Kemi4pm t-shirt to sell you.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,222
    edited 8:25AM

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Those of a Kemi Badenoch sceptic nature will find the polling and the trend difficult to deal with.

    On the contrary, I think "Good, determined, useless, strong, unknown, competent Conservative" fits reasonably well.

    I rather like the word clouds.

    Nigel Farage is a massive racist.
    Not the complete story, though.

    Nigel Farage is a greedy, massive racist.
    And short tempered, petulant and entitled.
    Like an angsty teen.

    Whatever the politics that’s not the sort of character traits I’d want in a PM.

    I’ve been neither pro nor against voting reform but his display over this has deffo pushed me into not voting for them next time.
    Human side? He's probably tired and burned out as a party leader. He's done it before. He has a lifespan of just a few years in these roles before he's had enough.

    More widely, he's always wanted to be an insurgent into the Establishment rather than a member of it. I think that's what accounts for his self-sabotaging behaviour. He doesn't like the scrutiny. He's terrified by the prospect of actually being in charge.

    I wouldn't be surprised if someone else was leading Reform into the next election.
    The problem with that is Farage is Reform, if Tice returned to lead Reform or Yusuf or Jenrick or Braverman did their support would likely collapse to the Tories and Restore with a few even going to Burnham Labour
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,593

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/2069649219112071576

    Jones also confirms Burnham will borrow more. However mostly for infrastructure which is an excellent idea.

    Council house building.
    Put like that, it's pretty sensible, isn't it? Borrowing to create things that are both useful and should generate income.

    And, splendid as the profit motive is, in housebuilding it seems to lead to a throttling of supply.
    I'd be perfectly fine with borrowing to invest (in council housing and other things) if Britain wasn't already borrowing £100+bn to pay debt interest, etc.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,233
    HYUFD said:

    Kemi will be pleased she mainly has positive scores as does Burnham. Farage will be concerned 'good' had been replaced by 'racist' as the main attribute given to him, although he is seen as an attribute to his party as is Burnham and Badenoch and as Starmer was not for Labour,

    Burnham should give Labour a bounce given Labour, LD and Green and even Tory voters see him as an asset to his party even if Reform voters do not. Kemi will also be encouraged by the fact every party's voters except the Greens see her as an asset. She will also be pleased she polls slightly better with Reform voters at 40% than Farage does with Tory voters at 39%

    I don't like Burnham, although I can understand the relief at his ejection of the incapable Starmer. He appears confident and suggests he is capable.

    I still don't see Badenoch's attraction to voters. Other than getting bigged up after a disastrous set of locals, what has she done to deserve the adulation?
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