"Anti-white racism is real, and there’ll be more Henry Nowaks until it’s crushed Critical race theory has taken us from Martin Luther King’s inspiring vision of a colour-blind society to today"
Employment rates (2022 figures): White 77% Black 69%
Stop and search (2023 figures) per 100,000: White British 5.6 Black 24.5
Court judges (2024 figures) v working age population (2021 figures): White 89.6% v 80.7% Black 1.3% v 4.4%
Median earnings (2022): White £14.35 per hour Black £13.53 per hour
Employment - controlled for education? Stop and search - controlled for location, criminal tendency (ie gang membership) etc? Judges - controlled for age? Earnings - controlled for education?
Those are all raw figures. Court judges is compared with the working age population.
The ADR UK report linked to above does more in terms of trying to control for other factors.
Raw figures are pretty meaningless.
It’s a particular bugbear of mine that people look at the percentage of, say, court judges in their 60s who are black and say “it’s too low, we’re racist”.
No. It just means that 35 years ago we had fewer black lawyers qualifying, and hence have a smaller pool of candidates for judges today. It will work itself out over time
Raw figures are a good starting point. But, yes, these are complex phenomena where it can be difficult to know what factors are at play…
… which is what I’ve been saying in reaction to the headless chickens running around claiming we have two tier policing and anti-white racism based on one event that we still don’t know the full details of.
A totally fiat point. Here's another one. The incident was in December last year, essentially 6 months ago. So why hasn't the investigation into the policed conduct been completed? It didn't need to wait for the court case to finish, the outcome would not affect what happened on the night. If I had any power I'd be getting that report finished asap.
But then the next problem will be if the report doesn't match the narrative for the far right, they will claim it's a whitewash. A better question might be how have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative?
The IOPC investigation clearly cannot be published until the court case is finished. Certain facts in the report will depend on the court case's conclusion, so it can't be finished before the court case concludes (e.g., it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too). Hopefully, we will see the report soon.
(I note that the IOPC's budget was cut by the Tories, more than a third in real terms since 2018, so that's going to make it harder for them to carry out thorough investigations in a timely manner.)
It is clear that some on the right are not interested in reading anything that might contradict that on which they have already made up their mind. This was apparent on the previous thread.
How have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative? Because the radical right in the US has been pushing a white grievance model, and the radical right in the UK have taken that up.
As I'm a bit thick, why would this be true? " it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too". The actions of the officers on the night do not go back and change via quantum entanglement if Digwa is found guilty or innocent surely? I totally understand why the report could not be released before the conclusion of the trial for obvious reasons. But as an investigation of the actions of the police officers, why does Digwa's guilt or innocence matter?
Can you not see a difference between "the police wrongly took the word of the murderer" and "the police wrongly took the word of someone who had been attacked by Nowak" (which was Digwa's defence AIUI)?
No. There was a man lying on the ground with 4 stab wounds which would prove to be fatal. Who the F*** cares who or what he was? He needed urgent medical help. He did not need handcuffs.
It's worth reading the judge's sentencing statement where he explains the police were seriously misled by the murderer and his brother and in his view acted reasonably. Murderers don't usually call the police to the crime scene, they had no reason to believe it was anything other than the two men claimed it to be. There was no visible wound when they put handcuffs on Nowak and the policeman was horrified when he found out Nowak had a serious injury a moment later.
The police are being maligned, not least by politicians who should know better. The case is not remotely similar to George Floyd where the murderer was actually the policeman, nor to Stephen Lawrence where the police simply didn't bother to investigate properly because the victim was black.
There will be, and should be, an investigation into the police operation and no doubt there will be some changes to procedure. It's not obvious from the sentencing remarks what generalised changes would have made a substantial difference to what happened to Henry Nowak, sadly.
The judge's remarks are fine as far as the circumstance go, but seem ignorant of existing police policy (and training) which would not have suggested the automatic handcuffing* of Nowak, even if he had been the assailant, and would have mandated a far more thorough assessment of his condition.
*Handcuffing by the police, without reasonable justification, constitutes an assault. The circumstance here, with Nowak lying on the ground, do not seem to provide that justification.
I would expect any review into police procedure to focus on this. But I wouldn't rush to assume existing police procedure wasn't followed, on the basis if someone is perceived to be a potential threat you handcuff first to mitigate the threat, investigate, then release if there is no threat. As far as I know this happened in rapid order with Nowak but tragically he was already dying.
The police procedure was completely followed, which is the problem.
One guy said “I’ve been stabbed”, the other guy said “That guy was racist”, and the police prioritised the second complaint over the first, as they were trained to do.
Don't let a lack of evidence about both what actually happened and police training get in the way of a strongly held prejudice. The judge made clear in his sentencing remarks that the police had no reason to suspect initially Nowak had been stabbed. Once they did, moments later, it was too late.
No reason other than him actually saying "I've been stabbed." Come on.
Apparently feigning injury is a deception used by suspects. Unfortunately in this instance it was genuine. I hope the lying sack of shit that stabbed Henry Nowak spends his entire life inside. His lying sack of shit brother needs a lengthy sentence too.
When you do a job like police officer, you are trained to deal with the unexpected event. Doesn't matter how often you've encountered a situation, you treat every incident as a new event.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
Is there a reason Kirpans (yes I know one wasn’t actually used in this situation) have to have a sharp blade and point?
Surely as they are symbolic and shouldn’t be used as a weapon in the UK there could be no objection to them having to be non-bladed/pointed and then totally safe to carry as a symbolic object.
Christians who are so inclined to demonstrate their beliefs through objects don’t literally carry around a wooden crucifix with a body nailed on, Jews funnily enough don’t lug around and actual star and Muslims aren’t packing a crescent moon in their pockets.
Racism against non-white people has been ingrained in society and institutions for a long time. Have attempts to address this sometimes led to overcorrective behaviour? Doubtless they have. But the idea we have created a pervasive anti-white racism that can be viewed in the same light as the problem we are trying to combat is a nonsense. All it really shows, believing that, is a lack of appreciation for the scale and nature and importance of the underlying issue - the fight for racial equality.
"Anti-white racism is real, and there’ll be more Henry Nowaks until it’s crushed Critical race theory has taken us from Martin Luther King’s inspiring vision of a colour-blind society to today"
Employment rates (2022 figures): White 77% Black 69%
Stop and search (2023 figures) per 100,000: White British 5.6 Black 24.5
Court judges (2024 figures) v working age population (2021 figures): White 89.6% v 80.7% Black 1.3% v 4.4%
Median earnings (2022): White £14.35 per hour Black £13.53 per hour
Employment - controlled for education? Stop and search - controlled for location, criminal tendency (ie gang membership) etc? Judges - controlled for age? Earnings - controlled for education?
Those are all raw figures. Court judges is compared with the working age population.
The ADR UK report linked to above does more in terms of trying to control for other factors.
Raw figures are pretty meaningless.
It’s a particular bugbear of mine that people look at the percentage of, say, court judges in their 60s who are black and say “it’s too low, we’re racist”.
No. It just means that 35 years ago we had fewer black lawyers qualifying, and hence have a smaller pool of candidates for judges today. It will work itself out over time
Raw figures are a good starting point. But, yes, these are complex phenomena where it can be difficult to know what factors are at play…
… which is what I’ve been saying in reaction to the headless chickens running around claiming we have two tier policing and anti-white racism based on one event that we still don’t know the full details of.
A totally fiat point. Here's another one. The incident was in December last year, essentially 6 months ago. So why hasn't the investigation into the policed conduct been completed? It didn't need to wait for the court case to finish, the outcome would not affect what happened on the night. If I had any power I'd be getting that report finished asap.
But then the next problem will be if the report doesn't match the narrative for the far right, they will claim it's a whitewash. A better question might be how have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative?
The IOPC investigation clearly cannot be published until the court case is finished. Certain facts in the report will depend on the court case's conclusion, so it can't be finished before the court case concludes (e.g., it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too). Hopefully, we will see the report soon.
(I note that the IOPC's budget was cut by the Tories, more than a third in real terms since 2018, so that's going to make it harder for them to carry out thorough investigations in a timely manner.)
It is clear that some on the right are not interested in reading anything that might contradict that on which they have already made up their mind. This was apparent on the previous thread.
How have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative? Because the radical right in the US has been pushing a white grievance model, and the radical right in the UK have taken that up.
As I'm a bit thick, why would this be true? " it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too". The actions of the officers on the night do not go back and change via quantum entanglement if Digwa is found guilty or innocent surely? I totally understand why the report could not be released before the conclusion of the trial for obvious reasons. But as an investigation of the actions of the police officers, why does Digwa's guilt or innocence matter?
Can you not see a difference between "the police wrongly took the word of the murderer" and "the police wrongly took the word of someone who had been attacked by Nowak" (which was Digwa's defence AIUI)?
No. There was a man lying on the ground with 4 stab wounds which would prove to be fatal. Who the F*** cares who or what he was? He needed urgent medical help. He did not need handcuffs.
It's worth reading the judge's sentencing statement where he explains the police were seriously misled by the murderer and his brother and in his view acted reasonably. Murderers don't usually call the police to the crime scene, they had no reason to believe it was anything other than the two men claimed it to be. There was no visible wound when they put handcuffs on Nowak and the policeman was horrified when he found out Nowak had a serious injury a moment later.
The police are being maligned, not least by politicians who should know better. The case is not remotely similar to George Floyd where the murderer was actually the policeman, nor to Stephen Lawrence where the police simply didn't bother to investigate properly because the victim was black.
There will be, and should be, an investigation into the police operation and no doubt there will be some changes to procedure. It's not obvious from the sentencing remarks what generalised changes would have made a substantial difference to what happened to Henry Nowak, sadly.
I have read the remarks, which do not fully describe the police actions but confirm that no first aid would have saved Nowak's life, and have not seen the footage. One luxury I afford myself in old age is not watching things that will upset or offend me. However, those who have watched have commented that Nowak's injuries were discovered only after other police officers insisted on following the rules and checking him. If so, then it sounds like the police guidelines were correct but not followed, which is the opposite of what some politicians have suggested. But as I say, I've not checked the footage.
I've watched a lot of US bodycam footage and one of the things you sometimes notice is people getting very argumentative about who the police officer speaks to first. Having watched the Nowak footage I can now see why.
I didn't detect any hit of racial bias in the footage (the police officer didn't really respond to what the killer said about the turban and just asked him to move back) but what is clear is that the police allowed their first assessment of the incident to override what was in front of their eyes. Regardless of whether they could see any evidence of stabbing, it is clear from the footage that something is very wrong with Nowak whereas the killer is absolutely fine. Their priority absolutely should have been to check his medical condition before doing anything else.
The one thing I've not worked out yet is why the brother hasn't been charged as an accomplice to the murder, the mother was for hiding the weapon but not the brother?
tbh I dislike the modern trend for charging family members with assisting offenders. It used to be taken as read that a villain's wife or mother would support him rather than call the police.
Actively hiding the weapon deserves charging, mother or not. I think the brother and father are also in court next week on charges of poseession of weapons.
"Anti-white racism is real, and there’ll be more Henry Nowaks until it’s crushed Critical race theory has taken us from Martin Luther King’s inspiring vision of a colour-blind society to today"
Employment rates (2022 figures): White 77% Black 69%
Stop and search (2023 figures) per 100,000: White British 5.6 Black 24.5
Court judges (2024 figures) v working age population (2021 figures): White 89.6% v 80.7% Black 1.3% v 4.4%
Median earnings (2022): White £14.35 per hour Black £13.53 per hour
Employment - controlled for education? Stop and search - controlled for location, criminal tendency (ie gang membership) etc? Judges - controlled for age? Earnings - controlled for education?
Those are all raw figures. Court judges is compared with the working age population.
The ADR UK report linked to above does more in terms of trying to control for other factors.
Raw figures are pretty meaningless.
It’s a particular bugbear of mine that people look at the percentage of, say, court judges in their 60s who are black and say “it’s too low, we’re racist”.
No. It just means that 35 years ago we had fewer black lawyers qualifying, and hence have a smaller pool of candidates for judges today. It will work itself out over time
Raw figures are a good starting point. But, yes, these are complex phenomena where it can be difficult to know what factors are at play…
… which is what I’ve been saying in reaction to the headless chickens running around claiming we have two tier policing and anti-white racism based on one event that we still don’t know the full details of.
A totally fiat point. Here's another one. The incident was in December last year, essentially 6 months ago. So why hasn't the investigation into the policed conduct been completed? It didn't need to wait for the court case to finish, the outcome would not affect what happened on the night. If I had any power I'd be getting that report finished asap.
But then the next problem will be if the report doesn't match the narrative for the far right, they will claim it's a whitewash. A better question might be how have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative?
The IOPC investigation clearly cannot be published until the court case is finished. Certain facts in the report will depend on the court case's conclusion, so it can't be finished before the court case concludes (e.g., it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too). Hopefully, we will see the report soon.
(I note that the IOPC's budget was cut by the Tories, more than a third in real terms since 2018, so that's going to make it harder for them to carry out thorough investigations in a timely manner.)
It is clear that some on the right are not interested in reading anything that might contradict that on which they have already made up their mind. This was apparent on the previous thread.
How have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative? Because the radical right in the US has been pushing a white grievance model, and the radical right in the UK have taken that up.
As I'm a bit thick, why would this be true? " it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too". The actions of the officers on the night do not go back and change via quantum entanglement if Digwa is found guilty or innocent surely? I totally understand why the report could not be released before the conclusion of the trial for obvious reasons. But as an investigation of the actions of the police officers, why does Digwa's guilt or innocence matter?
Can you not see a difference between "the police wrongly took the word of the murderer" and "the police wrongly took the word of someone who had been attacked by Nowak" (which was Digwa's defence AIUI)?
No. There was a man lying on the ground with 4 stab wounds which would prove to be fatal. Who the F*** cares who or what he was? He needed urgent medical help. He did not need handcuffs.
It's worth reading the judge's sentencing statement where he explains the police were seriously misled by the murderer and his brother and in his view acted reasonably. Murderers don't usually call the police to the crime scene, they had no reason to believe it was anything other than the two men claimed it to be. There was no visible wound when they put handcuffs on Nowak and the policeman was horrified when he found out Nowak had a serious injury a moment later.
The police are being maligned, not least by politicians who should know better. The case is not remotely similar to George Floyd where the murderer was actually the policeman, nor to Stephen Lawrence where the police simply didn't bother to investigate properly because the victim was black.
There will be, and should be, an investigation into the police operation and no doubt there will be some changes to procedure. It's not obvious from the sentencing remarks what generalised changes would have made a substantial difference to what happened to Henry Nowak, sadly.
The judge's remarks are fine as far as the circumstance go, but seem ignorant of existing police policy (and training) which would not have suggested the automatic handcuffing* of Nowak, even if he had been the assailant, and would have mandated a far more thorough assessment of his condition.
*Handcuffing by the police, without reasonable justification, constitutes an assault. The circumstance here, with Nowak lying on the ground, do not seem to provide that justification.
I would expect any review into police procedure to focus on this. But I wouldn't rush to assume existing police procedure wasn't followed, on the basis if someone is perceived to be a potential threat you handcuff first to mitigate the threat, investigate, then release if there is no threat. As far as I know this happened in rapid order with Nowak but tragically he was already dying.
The police procedure was completely followed, which is the problem.
One guy said “I’ve been stabbed”, the other guy said “That guy was racist”, and the police prioritised the second complaint over the first, as they were trained to do.
Don't let a lack of evidence about both what actually happened and police training get in the way of a strongly held prejudice. The judge made clear in his sentencing remarks that the police had no reason to suspect initially Nowak had been stabbed. Once they did, moments later, it was too late.
No reason other than him actually saying "I've been stabbed." Come on.
Apparently feigning injury is a deception used by suspects. Unfortunately in this instance it was genuine. I hope the lying sack of shit that stabbed Henry Nowak spends his entire life inside. His lying sack of shit brother needs a lengthy sentence too.
I don't disagree. Surely this is what the police enquiry will determine? It was undoubtedly an absolute f*** up, but the question is was the error cock up or conspiracy.
"...We must also be prepared to examine, carefully and seriously, religious practices or exemptions that permit the carrying of dangerous weapons in public, and other activities that are not conducive to the public good. We also need to examine where the law needs to change..."
One question. Why? Kirpans have been carried by Sikhs in the UK for decades. You would have been in your thirties/forties when that was sorted out. A kirpan was not used in the Nowak murder. Given that there is no reason to ban/further restrict them from the facts of the case, why is she advocating for this?
A line from "The Crown" occurs to me: "Our job is to calm more crises than we create". This is not calming the crisis, now is it?
The fact that the murderer routinely carried around knives with impunity is absolutely relevant to the case.
The religious knife in question was not used and is not relevant
Racism against non-white people has been ingrained in society and institutions for a long time. Have attempts to address this sometimes led to overcorrective behaviour? Doubtless they have. But the idea we have created a pervasive anti-white racism that can be viewed in the same light as the problem we are trying to combat is a nonsense. All it really shows, believing that, is a lack of appreciation for the scale and nature and importance of the underlying issue - the fight for racial equality.
The pendulum has now swung too far the other way.
Martin Luther King was right, that we should see people as people and not see race everywhere.
Hardly a pendulum. That would imply a white person in England now suffers similar levels of discrimination to a black person before all this civil rights malarky kicked off. I'll do you the service of not ascribing that absurd view to you and assume you're simply expressing the admirable sentiment that skin colour should not impact how a person is treated.
That's not a logical argument.
If in the past there was strong anti-black* racism, then the pendulum of politics swung and now there is mild anti-white* racism, it's not a valid argument to say that it isn't a pendulum swing. All that argument says is that is the pendulum hasn't reached the end of the anti-white stroke yet. It's also possible for a pendulum to be stopped swinging if someone grabs hold of it!
And yes, skin colour should not alter how a person is treated one iota, hence why all the stuff discriminating in favour of minorities is so egregiously wrong.
* this isn't about skin colour anyway, it's more about cultural background.
"Anti-white racism is real, and there’ll be more Henry Nowaks until it’s crushed Critical race theory has taken us from Martin Luther King’s inspiring vision of a colour-blind society to today"
Employment rates (2022 figures): White 77% Black 69%
Stop and search (2023 figures) per 100,000: White British 5.6 Black 24.5
Court judges (2024 figures) v working age population (2021 figures): White 89.6% v 80.7% Black 1.3% v 4.4%
Median earnings (2022): White £14.35 per hour Black £13.53 per hour
Employment - controlled for education? Stop and search - controlled for location, criminal tendency (ie gang membership) etc? Judges - controlled for age? Earnings - controlled for education?
Those are all raw figures. Court judges is compared with the working age population.
The ADR UK report linked to above does more in terms of trying to control for other factors.
Raw figures are pretty meaningless.
It’s a particular bugbear of mine that people look at the percentage of, say, court judges in their 60s who are black and say “it’s too low, we’re racist”.
No. It just means that 35 years ago we had fewer black lawyers qualifying, and hence have a smaller pool of candidates for judges today. It will work itself out over time
Raw figures are a good starting point. But, yes, these are complex phenomena where it can be difficult to know what factors are at play…
… which is what I’ve been saying in reaction to the headless chickens running around claiming we have two tier policing and anti-white racism based on one event that we still don’t know the full details of.
A totally fiat point. Here's another one. The incident was in December last year, essentially 6 months ago. So why hasn't the investigation into the policed conduct been completed? It didn't need to wait for the court case to finish, the outcome would not affect what happened on the night. If I had any power I'd be getting that report finished asap.
But then the next problem will be if the report doesn't match the narrative for the far right, they will claim it's a whitewash. A better question might be how have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative?
The IOPC investigation clearly cannot be published until the court case is finished. Certain facts in the report will depend on the court case's conclusion, so it can't be finished before the court case concludes (e.g., it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too). Hopefully, we will see the report soon.
(I note that the IOPC's budget was cut by the Tories, more than a third in real terms since 2018, so that's going to make it harder for them to carry out thorough investigations in a timely manner.)
It is clear that some on the right are not interested in reading anything that might contradict that on which they have already made up their mind. This was apparent on the previous thread.
How have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative? Because the radical right in the US has been pushing a white grievance model, and the radical right in the UK have taken that up.
As I'm a bit thick, why would this be true? " it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too". The actions of the officers on the night do not go back and change via quantum entanglement if Digwa is found guilty or innocent surely? I totally understand why the report could not be released before the conclusion of the trial for obvious reasons. But as an investigation of the actions of the police officers, why does Digwa's guilt or innocence matter?
Can you not see a difference between "the police wrongly took the word of the murderer" and "the police wrongly took the word of someone who had been attacked by Nowak" (which was Digwa's defence AIUI)?
No. There was a man lying on the ground with 4 stab wounds which would prove to be fatal. Who the F*** cares who or what he was? He needed urgent medical help. He did not need handcuffs.
It's worth reading the judge's sentencing statement where he explains the police were seriously misled by the murderer and his brother and in his view acted reasonably. Murderers don't usually call the police to the crime scene, they had no reason to believe it was anything other than the two men claimed it to be. There was no visible wound when they put handcuffs on Nowak and the policeman was horrified when he found out Nowak had a serious injury a moment later.
The police are being maligned, not least by politicians who should know better. The case is not remotely similar to George Floyd where the murderer was actually the policeman, nor to Stephen Lawrence where the police simply didn't bother to investigate properly because the victim was black.
There will be, and should be, an investigation into the police operation and no doubt there will be some changes to procedure. It's not obvious from the sentencing remarks what generalised changes would have made a substantial difference to what happened to Henry Nowak, sadly.
The judge's remarks are fine as far as the circumstance go, but seem ignorant of existing police policy (and training) which would not have suggested the automatic handcuffing* of Nowak, even if he had been the assailant, and would have mandated a far more thorough assessment of his condition.
*Handcuffing by the police, without reasonable justification, constitutes an assault. The circumstance here, with Nowak lying on the ground, do not seem to provide that justification.
I would expect any review into police procedure to focus on this. But I wouldn't rush to assume existing police procedure wasn't followed, on the basis if someone is perceived to be a potential threat you handcuff first to mitigate the threat, investigate, then release if there is no threat. As far as I know this happened in rapid order with Nowak but tragically he was already dying.
The police procedure was completely followed, which is the problem.
One guy said “I’ve been stabbed”, the other guy said “That guy was racist”, and the police prioritised the second complaint over the first, as they were trained to do.
Don't let a lack of evidence about both what actually happened and police training get in the way of a strongly held prejudice. The judge made clear in his sentencing remarks that the police had no reason to suspect initially Nowak had been stabbed. Once they did, moments later, it was too late.
No reason other than him actually saying "I've been stabbed." Come on.
The judge directly addressed this in his sentencing remarks that I linked :
Another consequence of those lies is that the attending police officers honestly believed that there were reasonable grounds for suspecting Henry had committed an offence and arrested him with the consequence he was handcuffed for about a minute before his condition further deteriorated and the arresting officer began CPR. The police were given a convincing but wholly false narrative of the incident. It was dark and Henry was wearing a dark top. The entry damage caused by the knife through it, would not have been obvious. Whilst there was visible blood on Henry, it would not have clearly been seen coming from that wound and the clearly visible facial wound was not life-threatening. Henry was complaining that he had been stabbed and was struggling to breathe but that would not have necessarily told the officers how serious the situation had become. It is the experience of the criminal courts that sometimes, someone arrested and handcuffed will feign injury in the hope they may be released. These police officers were faced with having to make quick decisions in pressurised circumstances about the best way to act. The genuine shock to the particular police officer, when he realised that he had been giving CPR to Henry when he had a serious chest wound tends to show that he was doing his best in a very difficult situation.
You might assert the judge was a gullible fool but it is his job to assess this stuff.
"Anti-white racism is real, and there’ll be more Henry Nowaks until it’s crushed Critical race theory has taken us from Martin Luther King’s inspiring vision of a colour-blind society to today"
Employment rates (2022 figures): White 77% Black 69%
Stop and search (2023 figures) per 100,000: White British 5.6 Black 24.5
Court judges (2024 figures) v working age population (2021 figures): White 89.6% v 80.7% Black 1.3% v 4.4%
Median earnings (2022): White £14.35 per hour Black £13.53 per hour
Employment - controlled for education? Stop and search - controlled for location, criminal tendency (ie gang membership) etc? Judges - controlled for age? Earnings - controlled for education?
Those are all raw figures. Court judges is compared with the working age population.
The ADR UK report linked to above does more in terms of trying to control for other factors.
Raw figures are pretty meaningless.
It’s a particular bugbear of mine that people look at the percentage of, say, court judges in their 60s who are black and say “it’s too low, we’re racist”.
No. It just means that 35 years ago we had fewer black lawyers qualifying, and hence have a smaller pool of candidates for judges today. It will work itself out over time
Raw figures are a good starting point. But, yes, these are complex phenomena where it can be difficult to know what factors are at play…
… which is what I’ve been saying in reaction to the headless chickens running around claiming we have two tier policing and anti-white racism based on one event that we still don’t know the full details of.
A totally fiat point. Here's another one. The incident was in December last year, essentially 6 months ago. So why hasn't the investigation into the policed conduct been completed? It didn't need to wait for the court case to finish, the outcome would not affect what happened on the night. If I had any power I'd be getting that report finished asap.
But then the next problem will be if the report doesn't match the narrative for the far right, they will claim it's a whitewash. A better question might be how have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative?
The IOPC investigation clearly cannot be published until the court case is finished. Certain facts in the report will depend on the court case's conclusion, so it can't be finished before the court case concludes (e.g., it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too). Hopefully, we will see the report soon.
(I note that the IOPC's budget was cut by the Tories, more than a third in real terms since 2018, so that's going to make it harder for them to carry out thorough investigations in a timely manner.)
It is clear that some on the right are not interested in reading anything that might contradict that on which they have already made up their mind. This was apparent on the previous thread.
How have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative? Because the radical right in the US has been pushing a white grievance model, and the radical right in the UK have taken that up.
As I'm a bit thick, why would this be true? " it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too". The actions of the officers on the night do not go back and change via quantum entanglement if Digwa is found guilty or innocent surely? I totally understand why the report could not be released before the conclusion of the trial for obvious reasons. But as an investigation of the actions of the police officers, why does Digwa's guilt or innocence matter?
Can you not see a difference between "the police wrongly took the word of the murderer" and "the police wrongly took the word of someone who had been attacked by Nowak" (which was Digwa's defence AIUI)?
No. There was a man lying on the ground with 4 stab wounds which would prove to be fatal. Who the F*** cares who or what he was? He needed urgent medical help. He did not need handcuffs.
It's worth reading the judge's sentencing statement where he explains the police were seriously misled by the murderer and his brother and in his view acted reasonably. Murderers don't usually call the police to the crime scene, they had no reason to believe it was anything other than the two men claimed it to be. There was no visible wound when they put handcuffs on Nowak and the policeman was horrified when he found out Nowak had a serious injury a moment later.
The police are being maligned, not least by politicians who should know better. The case is not remotely similar to George Floyd where the murderer was actually the policeman, nor to Stephen Lawrence where the police simply didn't bother to investigate properly because the victim was black.
There will be, and should be, an investigation into the police operation and no doubt there will be some changes to procedure. It's not obvious from the sentencing remarks what generalised changes would have made a substantial difference to what happened to Henry Nowak, sadly.
The judge's remarks are fine as far as the circumstance go, but seem ignorant of existing police policy (and training) which would not have suggested the automatic handcuffing* of Nowak, even if he had been the assailant, and would have mandated a far more thorough assessment of his condition.
*Handcuffing by the police, without reasonable justification, constitutes an assault. The circumstance here, with Nowak lying on the ground, do not seem to provide that justification.
I would expect any review into police procedure to focus on this. But I wouldn't rush to assume existing police procedure wasn't followed, on the basis if someone is perceived to be a potential threat you handcuff first to mitigate the threat, investigate, then release if there is no threat. As far as I know this happened in rapid order with Nowak but tragically he was already dying.
The police procedure was completely followed, which is the problem.
One guy said “I’ve been stabbed”, the other guy said “That guy was racist”, and the police prioritised the second complaint over the first, as they were trained to do.
Don't let a lack of evidence about both what actually happened and police training get in the way of a strongly held prejudice. The judge made clear in his sentencing remarks that the police had no reason to suspect initially Nowak had been stabbed. Once they did, moments later, it was too late.
No reason other than him actually saying "I've been stabbed." Come on.
The judge directly addressed this in his sentencing remarks that I linked :
Another consequence of those lies is that the attending police officers honestly believed that there were reasonable grounds for suspecting Henry had committed an offence and arrested him with the consequence he was handcuffed for about a minute before his condition further deteriorated and the arresting officer began CPR. The police were given a convincing but wholly false narrative of the incident. It was dark and Henry was wearing a dark top. The entry damage caused by the knife through it, would not have been obvious. Whilst there was visible blood on Henry, it would not have clearly been seen coming from that wound and the clearly visible facial wound was not life-threatening. Henry was complaining that he had been stabbed and was struggling to breathe but that would not have necessarily told the officers how serious the situation had become. It is the experience of the criminal courts that sometimes, someone arrested and handcuffed will feign injury in the hope they may be released. These police officers were faced with having to make quick decisions in pressurised circumstances about the best way to act. The genuine shock to the particular police officer, when he realised that he had been giving CPR to Henry when he had a serious chest wound tends to show that he was doing his best in a very difficult situation.
You might assert the judge was a gullible fool but it is his job to assess this stuff.
I have a lower opinion of the judge than I do of the police officers.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
Tice is one of those people who you meet and can't believe his parents actually paid for his schooling.
"Anti-white racism is real, and there’ll be more Henry Nowaks until it’s crushed Critical race theory has taken us from Martin Luther King’s inspiring vision of a colour-blind society to today"
Employment rates (2022 figures): White 77% Black 69%
Stop and search (2023 figures) per 100,000: White British 5.6 Black 24.5
Court judges (2024 figures) v working age population (2021 figures): White 89.6% v 80.7% Black 1.3% v 4.4%
Median earnings (2022): White £14.35 per hour Black £13.53 per hour
Employment - controlled for education? Stop and search - controlled for location, criminal tendency (ie gang membership) etc? Judges - controlled for age? Earnings - controlled for education?
Those are all raw figures. Court judges is compared with the working age population.
The ADR UK report linked to above does more in terms of trying to control for other factors.
Raw figures are pretty meaningless.
It’s a particular bugbear of mine that people look at the percentage of, say, court judges in their 60s who are black and say “it’s too low, we’re racist”.
No. It just means that 35 years ago we had fewer black lawyers qualifying, and hence have a smaller pool of candidates for judges today. It will work itself out over time
Raw figures are a good starting point. But, yes, these are complex phenomena where it can be difficult to know what factors are at play…
… which is what I’ve been saying in reaction to the headless chickens running around claiming we have two tier policing and anti-white racism based on one event that we still don’t know the full details of.
A totally fiat point. Here's another one. The incident was in December last year, essentially 6 months ago. So why hasn't the investigation into the policed conduct been completed? It didn't need to wait for the court case to finish, the outcome would not affect what happened on the night. If I had any power I'd be getting that report finished asap.
But then the next problem will be if the report doesn't match the narrative for the far right, they will claim it's a whitewash. A better question might be how have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative?
The IOPC investigation clearly cannot be published until the court case is finished. Certain facts in the report will depend on the court case's conclusion, so it can't be finished before the court case concludes (e.g., it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too). Hopefully, we will see the report soon.
(I note that the IOPC's budget was cut by the Tories, more than a third in real terms since 2018, so that's going to make it harder for them to carry out thorough investigations in a timely manner.)
It is clear that some on the right are not interested in reading anything that might contradict that on which they have already made up their mind. This was apparent on the previous thread.
How have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative? Because the radical right in the US has been pushing a white grievance model, and the radical right in the UK have taken that up.
As I'm a bit thick, why would this be true? " it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too". The actions of the officers on the night do not go back and change via quantum entanglement if Digwa is found guilty or innocent surely? I totally understand why the report could not be released before the conclusion of the trial for obvious reasons. But as an investigation of the actions of the police officers, why does Digwa's guilt or innocence matter?
Can you not see a difference between "the police wrongly took the word of the murderer" and "the police wrongly took the word of someone who had been attacked by Nowak" (which was Digwa's defence AIUI)?
No. There was a man lying on the ground with 4 stab wounds which would prove to be fatal. Who the F*** cares who or what he was? He needed urgent medical help. He did not need handcuffs.
It's worth reading the judge's sentencing statement where he explains the police were seriously misled by the murderer and his brother and in his view acted reasonably. Murderers don't usually call the police to the crime scene, they had no reason to believe it was anything other than the two men claimed it to be. There was no visible wound when they put handcuffs on Nowak and the policeman was horrified when he found out Nowak had a serious injury a moment later.
The police are being maligned, not least by politicians who should know better. The case is not remotely similar to George Floyd where the murderer was actually the policeman, nor to Stephen Lawrence where the police simply didn't bother to investigate properly because the victim was black.
There will be, and should be, an investigation into the police operation and no doubt there will be some changes to procedure. It's not obvious from the sentencing remarks what generalised changes would have made a substantial difference to what happened to Henry Nowak, sadly.
The judge's remarks are fine as far as the circumstance go, but seem ignorant of existing police policy (and training) which would not have suggested the automatic handcuffing* of Nowak, even if he had been the assailant, and would have mandated a far more thorough assessment of his condition.
*Handcuffing by the police, without reasonable justification, constitutes an assault. The circumstance here, with Nowak lying on the ground, do not seem to provide that justification.
I would expect any review into police procedure to focus on this. But I wouldn't rush to assume existing police procedure wasn't followed, on the basis if someone is perceived to be a potential threat you handcuff first to mitigate the threat, investigate, then release if there is no threat. As far as I know this happened in rapid order with Nowak but tragically he was already dying.
The police procedure was completely followed, which is the problem.
One guy said “I’ve been stabbed”, the other guy said “That guy was racist”, and the police prioritised the second complaint over the first, as they were trained to do.
Don't let a lack of evidence about both what actually happened and police training get in the way of a strongly held prejudice. The judge made clear in his sentencing remarks that the police had no reason to suspect initially Nowak had been stabbed. Once they did, moments later, it was too late.
No reason other than him actually saying "I've been stabbed." Come on.
The judge directly addressed this in his sentencing remarks that I linked :
Another consequence of those lies is that the attending police officers honestly believed that there were reasonable grounds for suspecting Henry had committed an offence and arrested him with the consequence he was handcuffed for about a minute before his condition further deteriorated and the arresting officer began CPR. The police were given a convincing but wholly false narrative of the incident. It was dark and Henry was wearing a dark top. The entry damage caused by the knife through it, would not have been obvious. Whilst there was visible blood on Henry, it would not have clearly been seen coming from that wound and the clearly visible facial wound was not life-threatening. Henry was complaining that he had been stabbed and was struggling to breathe but that would not have necessarily told the officers how serious the situation had become. It is the experience of the criminal courts that sometimes, someone arrested and handcuffed will feign injury in the hope they may be released. These police officers were faced with having to make quick decisions in pressurised circumstances about the best way to act. The genuine shock to the particular police officer, when he realised that he had been giving CPR to Henry when he had a serious chest wound tends to show that he was doing his best in a very difficult situation.
You might assert the judge was a gullible fool but it is his job to assess this stuff.
Another idiot judge, like the one who let the teenage rapists off.
"Anti-white racism is real, and there’ll be more Henry Nowaks until it’s crushed Critical race theory has taken us from Martin Luther King’s inspiring vision of a colour-blind society to today"
Employment rates (2022 figures): White 77% Black 69%
Stop and search (2023 figures) per 100,000: White British 5.6 Black 24.5
Court judges (2024 figures) v working age population (2021 figures): White 89.6% v 80.7% Black 1.3% v 4.4%
Median earnings (2022): White £14.35 per hour Black £13.53 per hour
Employment - controlled for education? Stop and search - controlled for location, criminal tendency (ie gang membership) etc? Judges - controlled for age? Earnings - controlled for education?
Those are all raw figures. Court judges is compared with the working age population.
The ADR UK report linked to above does more in terms of trying to control for other factors.
Raw figures are pretty meaningless.
It’s a particular bugbear of mine that people look at the percentage of, say, court judges in their 60s who are black and say “it’s too low, we’re racist”.
No. It just means that 35 years ago we had fewer black lawyers qualifying, and hence have a smaller pool of candidates for judges today. It will work itself out over time
Raw figures are a good starting point. But, yes, these are complex phenomena where it can be difficult to know what factors are at play…
… which is what I’ve been saying in reaction to the headless chickens running around claiming we have two tier policing and anti-white racism based on one event that we still don’t know the full details of.
A totally fiat point. Here's another one. The incident was in December last year, essentially 6 months ago. So why hasn't the investigation into the policed conduct been completed? It didn't need to wait for the court case to finish, the outcome would not affect what happened on the night. If I had any power I'd be getting that report finished asap.
But then the next problem will be if the report doesn't match the narrative for the far right, they will claim it's a whitewash. A better question might be how have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative?
The IOPC investigation clearly cannot be published until the court case is finished. Certain facts in the report will depend on the court case's conclusion, so it can't be finished before the court case concludes (e.g., it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too). Hopefully, we will see the report soon.
(I note that the IOPC's budget was cut by the Tories, more than a third in real terms since 2018, so that's going to make it harder for them to carry out thorough investigations in a timely manner.)
It is clear that some on the right are not interested in reading anything that might contradict that on which they have already made up their mind. This was apparent on the previous thread.
How have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative? Because the radical right in the US has been pushing a white grievance model, and the radical right in the UK have taken that up.
As I'm a bit thick, why would this be true? " it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too". The actions of the officers on the night do not go back and change via quantum entanglement if Digwa is found guilty or innocent surely? I totally understand why the report could not be released before the conclusion of the trial for obvious reasons. But as an investigation of the actions of the police officers, why does Digwa's guilt or innocence matter?
Can you not see a difference between "the police wrongly took the word of the murderer" and "the police wrongly took the word of someone who had been attacked by Nowak" (which was Digwa's defence AIUI)?
No. There was a man lying on the ground with 4 stab wounds which would prove to be fatal. Who the F*** cares who or what he was? He needed urgent medical help. He did not need handcuffs.
It's worth reading the judge's sentencing statement where he explains the police were seriously misled by the murderer and his brother and in his view acted reasonably. Murderers don't usually call the police to the crime scene, they had no reason to believe it was anything other than the two men claimed it to be. There was no visible wound when they put handcuffs on Nowak and the policeman was horrified when he found out Nowak had a serious injury a moment later.
The police are being maligned, not least by politicians who should know better. The case is not remotely similar to George Floyd where the murderer was actually the policeman, nor to Stephen Lawrence where the police simply didn't bother to investigate properly because the victim was black.
There will be, and should be, an investigation into the police operation and no doubt there will be some changes to procedure. It's not obvious from the sentencing remarks what generalised changes would have made a substantial difference to what happened to Henry Nowak, sadly.
The judge's remarks are fine as far as the circumstance go, but seem ignorant of existing police policy (and training) which would not have suggested the automatic handcuffing* of Nowak, even if he had been the assailant, and would have mandated a far more thorough assessment of his condition.
*Handcuffing by the police, without reasonable justification, constitutes an assault. The circumstance here, with Nowak lying on the ground, do not seem to provide that justification.
I would expect any review into police procedure to focus on this. But I wouldn't rush to assume existing police procedure wasn't followed, on the basis if someone is perceived to be a potential threat you handcuff first to mitigate the threat, investigate, then release if there is no threat. As far as I know this happened in rapid order with Nowak but tragically he was already dying.
The police procedure was completely followed, which is the problem.
One guy said “I’ve been stabbed”, the other guy said “That guy was racist”, and the police prioritised the second complaint over the first, as they were trained to do.
Don't let a lack of evidence about both what actually happened and police training get in the way of a strongly held prejudice. The judge made clear in his sentencing remarks that the police had no reason to suspect initially Nowak had been stabbed. Once they did, moments later, it was too late.
No reason other than him actually saying "I've been stabbed." Come on.
Apparently feigning injury is a deception used by suspects. Unfortunately in this instance it was genuine. I hope the lying sack of shit that stabbed Henry Nowak spends his entire life inside. His lying sack of shit brother needs a lengthy sentence too.
When you do a job like police officer, you are trained to deal with the unexpected event. Doesn't matter how often you've encountered a situation, you treat every incident as a new event.
I don't disagree. Whichever way one looks at this case a monumental error was made by the attending policeman. Professionals make errors. Was the policeman's attitude as it was through training, DEI instruction or ineptitude. Hopefully the inquiry will determine that.
Racism against non-white people has been ingrained in society and institutions for a long time. Have attempts to address this sometimes led to overcorrective behaviour? Doubtless they have. But the idea we have created a pervasive anti-white racism that can be viewed in the same light as the problem we are trying to combat is a nonsense. All it really shows, believing that, is a lack of appreciation for the scale and nature and importance of the underlying issue - the fight for racial equality.
The view from millionaires row.
A more sensible starting point would that this a death in police custody.
A lot of progress has been made with reducing such. How can we reduce it further?
Not arrest anybody? Certainly the views of some Green Party members who want to abolish prisons...
The progress that has been made has been (largely) about better assessing the medical situation of suspects and detainees. And getting prompt medical attention to those who need it.
Also CCTV means fewer people ‘fall down the stairs’
Racism against non-white people has been ingrained in society and institutions for a long time. Have attempts to address this sometimes led to overcorrective behaviour? Doubtless they have. But the idea we have created a pervasive anti-white racism that can be viewed in the same light as the problem we are trying to combat is a nonsense. All it really shows, believing that, is a lack of appreciation for the scale and nature and importance of the underlying issue - the fight for racial equality.
The view from millionaires row.
A more sensible starting point would that this a death in police custody.
A lot of progress has been made with reducing such. How can we reduce it further?
Not arrest anybody? Certainly the views of some Green Party members who want to abolish prisons...
The progress that has been made has been (largely) about better assessing the medical situation of suspects and detainees. And getting prompt medical attention to those who need it.
Also CCTV means fewer people ‘fall down the stairs’
"Anti-white racism is real, and there’ll be more Henry Nowaks until it’s crushed Critical race theory has taken us from Martin Luther King’s inspiring vision of a colour-blind society to today"
Employment rates (2022 figures): White 77% Black 69%
Stop and search (2023 figures) per 100,000: White British 5.6 Black 24.5
Court judges (2024 figures) v working age population (2021 figures): White 89.6% v 80.7% Black 1.3% v 4.4%
Median earnings (2022): White £14.35 per hour Black £13.53 per hour
Employment - controlled for education? Stop and search - controlled for location, criminal tendency (ie gang membership) etc? Judges - controlled for age? Earnings - controlled for education?
Those are all raw figures. Court judges is compared with the working age population.
The ADR UK report linked to above does more in terms of trying to control for other factors.
Raw figures are pretty meaningless.
It’s a particular bugbear of mine that people look at the percentage of, say, court judges in their 60s who are black and say “it’s too low, we’re racist”.
No. It just means that 35 years ago we had fewer black lawyers qualifying, and hence have a smaller pool of candidates for judges today. It will work itself out over time
Raw figures are a good starting point. But, yes, these are complex phenomena where it can be difficult to know what factors are at play…
… which is what I’ve been saying in reaction to the headless chickens running around claiming we have two tier policing and anti-white racism based on one event that we still don’t know the full details of.
A totally fiat point. Here's another one. The incident was in December last year, essentially 6 months ago. So why hasn't the investigation into the policed conduct been completed? It didn't need to wait for the court case to finish, the outcome would not affect what happened on the night. If I had any power I'd be getting that report finished asap.
But then the next problem will be if the report doesn't match the narrative for the far right, they will claim it's a whitewash. A better question might be how have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative?
The IOPC investigation clearly cannot be published until the court case is finished. Certain facts in the report will depend on the court case's conclusion, so it can't be finished before the court case concludes (e.g., it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too). Hopefully, we will see the report soon.
(I note that the IOPC's budget was cut by the Tories, more than a third in real terms since 2018, so that's going to make it harder for them to carry out thorough investigations in a timely manner.)
It is clear that some on the right are not interested in reading anything that might contradict that on which they have already made up their mind. This was apparent on the previous thread.
How have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative? Because the radical right in the US has been pushing a white grievance model, and the radical right in the UK have taken that up.
As I'm a bit thick, why would this be true? " it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too". The actions of the officers on the night do not go back and change via quantum entanglement if Digwa is found guilty or innocent surely? I totally understand why the report could not be released before the conclusion of the trial for obvious reasons. But as an investigation of the actions of the police officers, why does Digwa's guilt or innocence matter?
Can you not see a difference between "the police wrongly took the word of the murderer" and "the police wrongly took the word of someone who had been attacked by Nowak" (which was Digwa's defence AIUI)?
No. There was a man lying on the ground with 4 stab wounds which would prove to be fatal. Who the F*** cares who or what he was? He needed urgent medical help. He did not need handcuffs.
It's worth reading the judge's sentencing statement where he explains the police were seriously misled by the murderer and his brother and in his view acted reasonably. Murderers don't usually call the police to the crime scene, they had no reason to believe it was anything other than the two men claimed it to be. There was no visible wound when they put handcuffs on Nowak and the policeman was horrified when he found out Nowak had a serious injury a moment later.
The police are being maligned, not least by politicians who should know better. The case is not remotely similar to George Floyd where the murderer was actually the policeman, nor to Stephen Lawrence where the police simply didn't bother to investigate properly because the victim was black.
There will be, and should be, an investigation into the police operation and no doubt there will be some changes to procedure. It's not obvious from the sentencing remarks what generalised changes would have made a substantial difference to what happened to Henry Nowak, sadly.
I have read the remarks, which do not fully describe the police actions but confirm that no first aid would have saved Nowak's life, and have not seen the footage. One luxury I afford myself in old age is not watching things that will upset or offend me. However, those who have watched have commented that Nowak's injuries were discovered only after other police officers insisted on following the rules and checking him. If so, then it sounds like the police guidelines were correct but not followed, which is the opposite of what some politicians have suggested. But as I say, I've not checked the footage.
I've watched a lot of US bodycam footage and one of the things you sometimes notice is people getting very argumentative about who the police officer speaks to first. Having watched the Nowak footage I can now see why.
I didn't detect any hit of racial bias in the footage (the police officer didn't really respond to what the killer said about the turban and just asked him to move back) but what is clear is that the police allowed their first assessment of the incident to override what was in front of their eyes. Regardless of whether they could see any evidence of stabbing, it is clear from the footage that something is very wrong with Nowak whereas the killer is absolutely fine. Their priority absolutely should have been to check his medical condition before doing anything else.
The one thing I've not worked out yet is why the brother hasn't been charged as an accomplice to the murder, the mother was for hiding the weapon but not the brother?
tbh I dislike the modern trend for charging family members with assisting offenders. It used to be taken as read that a villain's wife or mother would support him rather than call the police.
Actively hiding the weapon deserves charging, mother or not. I think the brother and father are also in court next week on charges of poseession of weapons.
Racism against non-white people has been ingrained in society and institutions for a long time. Have attempts to address this sometimes led to overcorrective behaviour? Doubtless they have. But the idea we have created a pervasive anti-white racism that can be viewed in the same light as the problem we are trying to combat is a nonsense. All it really shows, believing that, is a lack of appreciation for the scale and nature and importance of the underlying issue - the fight for racial equality.
The view from millionaires row.
A more sensible starting point would that this a death in police custody.
A lot of progress has been made with reducing such. How can we reduce it further?
Not arrest anybody? Certainly the views of some Green Party members who want to abolish prisons...
The progress that has been made has been (largely) about better assessing the medical situation of suspects and detainees. And getting prompt medical attention to those who need it.
Also CCTV means fewer people ‘fall down the stairs’
"Anti-white racism is real, and there’ll be more Henry Nowaks until it’s crushed Critical race theory has taken us from Martin Luther King’s inspiring vision of a colour-blind society to today"
Employment rates (2022 figures): White 77% Black 69%
Stop and search (2023 figures) per 100,000: White British 5.6 Black 24.5
Court judges (2024 figures) v working age population (2021 figures): White 89.6% v 80.7% Black 1.3% v 4.4%
Median earnings (2022): White £14.35 per hour Black £13.53 per hour
Employment - controlled for education? Stop and search - controlled for location, criminal tendency (ie gang membership) etc? Judges - controlled for age? Earnings - controlled for education?
Those are all raw figures. Court judges is compared with the working age population.
The ADR UK report linked to above does more in terms of trying to control for other factors.
Raw figures are pretty meaningless.
It’s a particular bugbear of mine that people look at the percentage of, say, court judges in their 60s who are black and say “it’s too low, we’re racist”.
No. It just means that 35 years ago we had fewer black lawyers qualifying, and hence have a smaller pool of candidates for judges today. It will work itself out over time
Raw figures are a good starting point. But, yes, these are complex phenomena where it can be difficult to know what factors are at play…
… which is what I’ve been saying in reaction to the headless chickens running around claiming we have two tier policing and anti-white racism based on one event that we still don’t know the full details of.
A totally fiat point. Here's another one. The incident was in December last year, essentially 6 months ago. So why hasn't the investigation into the policed conduct been completed? It didn't need to wait for the court case to finish, the outcome would not affect what happened on the night. If I had any power I'd be getting that report finished asap.
But then the next problem will be if the report doesn't match the narrative for the far right, they will claim it's a whitewash. A better question might be how have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative?
The IOPC investigation clearly cannot be published until the court case is finished. Certain facts in the report will depend on the court case's conclusion, so it can't be finished before the court case concludes (e.g., it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too). Hopefully, we will see the report soon.
(I note that the IOPC's budget was cut by the Tories, more than a third in real terms since 2018, so that's going to make it harder for them to carry out thorough investigations in a timely manner.)
It is clear that some on the right are not interested in reading anything that might contradict that on which they have already made up their mind. This was apparent on the previous thread.
How have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative? Because the radical right in the US has been pushing a white grievance model, and the radical right in the UK have taken that up.
As I'm a bit thick, why would this be true? " it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too". The actions of the officers on the night do not go back and change via quantum entanglement if Digwa is found guilty or innocent surely? I totally understand why the report could not be released before the conclusion of the trial for obvious reasons. But as an investigation of the actions of the police officers, why does Digwa's guilt or innocence matter?
Can you not see a difference between "the police wrongly took the word of the murderer" and "the police wrongly took the word of someone who had been attacked by Nowak" (which was Digwa's defence AIUI)?
No. There was a man lying on the ground with 4 stab wounds which would prove to be fatal. Who the F*** cares who or what he was? He needed urgent medical help. He did not need handcuffs.
It's worth reading the judge's sentencing statement where he explains the police were seriously misled by the murderer and his brother and in his view acted reasonably. Murderers don't usually call the police to the crime scene, they had no reason to believe it was anything other than the two men claimed it to be. There was no visible wound when they put handcuffs on Nowak and the policeman was horrified when he found out Nowak had a serious injury a moment later.
The police are being maligned, not least by politicians who should know better. The case is not remotely similar to George Floyd where the murderer was actually the policeman, nor to Stephen Lawrence where the police simply didn't bother to investigate properly because the victim was black.
There will be, and should be, an investigation into the police operation and no doubt there will be some changes to procedure. It's not obvious from the sentencing remarks what generalised changes would have made a substantial difference to what happened to Henry Nowak, sadly.
I have read the remarks, which do not fully describe the police actions but confirm that no first aid would have saved Nowak's life, and have not seen the footage. One luxury I afford myself in old age is not watching things that will upset or offend me. However, those who have watched have commented that Nowak's injuries were discovered only after other police officers insisted on following the rules and checking him. If so, then it sounds like the police guidelines were correct but not followed, which is the opposite of what some politicians have suggested. But as I say, I've not checked the footage.
I've watched a lot of US bodycam footage and one of the things you sometimes notice is people getting very argumentative about who the police officer speaks to first. Having watched the Nowak footage I can now see why.
I didn't detect any hit of racial bias in the footage (the police officer didn't really respond to what the killer said about the turban and just asked him to move back) but what is clear is that the police allowed their first assessment of the incident to override what was in front of their eyes. Regardless of whether they could see any evidence of stabbing, it is clear from the footage that something is very wrong with Nowak whereas the killer is absolutely fine. Their priority absolutely should have been to check his medical condition before doing anything else.
The one thing I've not worked out yet is why the brother hasn't been charged as an accomplice to the murder, the mother was for hiding the weapon but not the brother?
tbh I dislike the modern trend for charging family members with assisting offenders. It used to be taken as read that a villain's wife or mother would support him rather than call the police.
Actively hiding the weapon deserves charging, mother or not. I think the brother and father are also in court next week on charges of poseession of weapons.
"Anti-white racism is real, and there’ll be more Henry Nowaks until it’s crushed Critical race theory has taken us from Martin Luther King’s inspiring vision of a colour-blind society to today"
Employment rates (2022 figures): White 77% Black 69%
Stop and search (2023 figures) per 100,000: White British 5.6 Black 24.5
Court judges (2024 figures) v working age population (2021 figures): White 89.6% v 80.7% Black 1.3% v 4.4%
Median earnings (2022): White £14.35 per hour Black £13.53 per hour
Employment - controlled for education? Stop and search - controlled for location, criminal tendency (ie gang membership) etc? Judges - controlled for age? Earnings - controlled for education?
Those are all raw figures. Court judges is compared with the working age population.
The ADR UK report linked to above does more in terms of trying to control for other factors.
Raw figures are pretty meaningless.
It’s a particular bugbear of mine that people look at the percentage of, say, court judges in their 60s who are black and say “it’s too low, we’re racist”.
No. It just means that 35 years ago we had fewer black lawyers qualifying, and hence have a smaller pool of candidates for judges today. It will work itself out over time
Raw figures are a good starting point. But, yes, these are complex phenomena where it can be difficult to know what factors are at play…
… which is what I’ve been saying in reaction to the headless chickens running around claiming we have two tier policing and anti-white racism based on one event that we still don’t know the full details of.
A totally fiat point. Here's another one. The incident was in December last year, essentially 6 months ago. So why hasn't the investigation into the policed conduct been completed? It didn't need to wait for the court case to finish, the outcome would not affect what happened on the night. If I had any power I'd be getting that report finished asap.
But then the next problem will be if the report doesn't match the narrative for the far right, they will claim it's a whitewash. A better question might be how have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative?
The IOPC investigation clearly cannot be published until the court case is finished. Certain facts in the report will depend on the court case's conclusion, so it can't be finished before the court case concludes (e.g., it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too). Hopefully, we will see the report soon.
(I note that the IOPC's budget was cut by the Tories, more than a third in real terms since 2018, so that's going to make it harder for them to carry out thorough investigations in a timely manner.)
It is clear that some on the right are not interested in reading anything that might contradict that on which they have already made up their mind. This was apparent on the previous thread.
How have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative? Because the radical right in the US has been pushing a white grievance model, and the radical right in the UK have taken that up.
As I'm a bit thick, why would this be true? " it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too". The actions of the officers on the night do not go back and change via quantum entanglement if Digwa is found guilty or innocent surely? I totally understand why the report could not be released before the conclusion of the trial for obvious reasons. But as an investigation of the actions of the police officers, why does Digwa's guilt or innocence matter?
Can you not see a difference between "the police wrongly took the word of the murderer" and "the police wrongly took the word of someone who had been attacked by Nowak" (which was Digwa's defence AIUI)?
No. There was a man lying on the ground with 4 stab wounds which would prove to be fatal. Who the F*** cares who or what he was? He needed urgent medical help. He did not need handcuffs.
It's worth reading the judge's sentencing statement where he explains the police were seriously misled by the murderer and his brother and in his view acted reasonably. Murderers don't usually call the police to the crime scene, they had no reason to believe it was anything other than the two men claimed it to be. There was no visible wound when they put handcuffs on Nowak and the policeman was horrified when he found out Nowak had a serious injury a moment later.
The police are being maligned, not least by politicians who should know better. The case is not remotely similar to George Floyd where the murderer was actually the policeman, nor to Stephen Lawrence where the police simply didn't bother to investigate properly because the victim was black.
There will be, and should be, an investigation into the police operation and no doubt there will be some changes to procedure. It's not obvious from the sentencing remarks what generalised changes would have made a substantial difference to what happened to Henry Nowak, sadly.
I have read the remarks, which do not fully describe the police actions but confirm that no first aid would have saved Nowak's life, and have not seen the footage. One luxury I afford myself in old age is not watching things that will upset or offend me. However, those who have watched have commented that Nowak's injuries were discovered only after other police officers insisted on following the rules and checking him. If so, then it sounds like the police guidelines were correct but not followed, which is the opposite of what some politicians have suggested. But as I say, I've not checked the footage.
I've watched a lot of US bodycam footage and one of the things you sometimes notice is people getting very argumentative about who the police officer speaks to first. Having watched the Nowak footage I can now see why.
I didn't detect any hit of racial bias in the footage (the police officer didn't really respond to what the killer said about the turban and just asked him to move back) but what is clear is that the police allowed their first assessment of the incident to override what was in front of their eyes. Regardless of whether they could see any evidence of stabbing, it is clear from the footage that something is very wrong with Nowak whereas the killer is absolutely fine. Their priority absolutely should have been to check his medical condition before doing anything else.
The one thing I've not worked out yet is why the brother hasn't been charged as an accomplice to the murder, the mother was for hiding the weapon but not the brother?
tbh I dislike the modern trend for charging family members with assisting offenders. It used to be taken as read that a villain's wife or mother would support him rather than call the police.
Actively hiding the weapon deserves charging, mother or not. I think the brother and father are also in court next week on charges of poseession of weapons.
Racism against non-white people has been ingrained in society and institutions for a long time. Have attempts to address this sometimes led to overcorrective behaviour? Doubtless they have. But the idea we have created a pervasive anti-white racism that can be viewed in the same light as the problem we are trying to combat is a nonsense. All it really shows, believing that, is a lack of appreciation for the scale and nature and importance of the underlying issue - the fight for racial equality.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
I hope that policeman can never sleep properly again.
Same here. I hope he’s haunted by this for the rest of his natural.
I cannot wish that level of guilt on any man. For me the whole sorry business speaks of failures of procedures and training. The man is but a cog in the wheel for me.
"Anti-white racism is real, and there’ll be more Henry Nowaks until it’s crushed Critical race theory has taken us from Martin Luther King’s inspiring vision of a colour-blind society to today"
Employment rates (2022 figures): White 77% Black 69%
Stop and search (2023 figures) per 100,000: White British 5.6 Black 24.5
Court judges (2024 figures) v working age population (2021 figures): White 89.6% v 80.7% Black 1.3% v 4.4%
Median earnings (2022): White £14.35 per hour Black £13.53 per hour
Employment - controlled for education? Stop and search - controlled for location, criminal tendency (ie gang membership) etc? Judges - controlled for age? Earnings - controlled for education?
Those are all raw figures. Court judges is compared with the working age population.
The ADR UK report linked to above does more in terms of trying to control for other factors.
Raw figures are pretty meaningless.
It’s a particular bugbear of mine that people look at the percentage of, say, court judges in their 60s who are black and say “it’s too low, we’re racist”.
No. It just means that 35 years ago we had fewer black lawyers qualifying, and hence have a smaller pool of candidates for judges today. It will work itself out over time
Raw figures are a good starting point. But, yes, these are complex phenomena where it can be difficult to know what factors are at play…
… which is what I’ve been saying in reaction to the headless chickens running around claiming we have two tier policing and anti-white racism based on one event that we still don’t know the full details of.
A totally fiat point. Here's another one. The incident was in December last year, essentially 6 months ago. So why hasn't the investigation into the policed conduct been completed? It didn't need to wait for the court case to finish, the outcome would not affect what happened on the night. If I had any power I'd be getting that report finished asap.
But then the next problem will be if the report doesn't match the narrative for the far right, they will claim it's a whitewash. A better question might be how have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative?
The IOPC investigation clearly cannot be published until the court case is finished. Certain facts in the report will depend on the court case's conclusion, so it can't be finished before the court case concludes (e.g., it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too). Hopefully, we will see the report soon.
(I note that the IOPC's budget was cut by the Tories, more than a third in real terms since 2018, so that's going to make it harder for them to carry out thorough investigations in a timely manner.)
It is clear that some on the right are not interested in reading anything that might contradict that on which they have already made up their mind. This was apparent on the previous thread.
How have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative? Because the radical right in the US has been pushing a white grievance model, and the radical right in the UK have taken that up.
As I'm a bit thick, why would this be true? " it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too". The actions of the officers on the night do not go back and change via quantum entanglement if Digwa is found guilty or innocent surely? I totally understand why the report could not be released before the conclusion of the trial for obvious reasons. But as an investigation of the actions of the police officers, why does Digwa's guilt or innocence matter?
Can you not see a difference between "the police wrongly took the word of the murderer" and "the police wrongly took the word of someone who had been attacked by Nowak" (which was Digwa's defence AIUI)?
No. There was a man lying on the ground with 4 stab wounds which would prove to be fatal. Who the F*** cares who or what he was? He needed urgent medical help. He did not need handcuffs.
It's worth reading the judge's sentencing statement where he explains the police were seriously misled by the murderer and his brother and in his view acted reasonably. Murderers don't usually call the police to the crime scene, they had no reason to believe it was anything other than the two men claimed it to be. There was no visible wound when they put handcuffs on Nowak and the policeman was horrified when he found out Nowak had a serious injury a moment later.
The police are being maligned, not least by politicians who should know better. The case is not remotely similar to George Floyd where the murderer was actually the policeman, nor to Stephen Lawrence where the police simply didn't bother to investigate properly because the victim was black.
There will be, and should be, an investigation into the police operation and no doubt there will be some changes to procedure. It's not obvious from the sentencing remarks what generalised changes would have made a substantial difference to what happened to Henry Nowak, sadly.
I have read the remarks, which do not fully describe the police actions but confirm that no first aid would have saved Nowak's life, and have not seen the footage. One luxury I afford myself in old age is not watching things that will upset or offend me. However, those who have watched have commented that Nowak's injuries were discovered only after other police officers insisted on following the rules and checking him. If so, then it sounds like the police guidelines were correct but not followed, which is the opposite of what some politicians have suggested. But as I say, I've not checked the footage.
I've watched a lot of US bodycam footage and one of the things you sometimes notice is people getting very argumentative about who the police officer speaks to first. Having watched the Nowak footage I can now see why.
I didn't detect any hit of racial bias in the footage (the police officer didn't really respond to what the killer said about the turban and just asked him to move back) but what is clear is that the police allowed their first assessment of the incident to override what was in front of their eyes. Regardless of whether they could see any evidence of stabbing, it is clear from the footage that something is very wrong with Nowak whereas the killer is absolutely fine. Their priority absolutely should have been to check his medical condition before doing anything else.
The one thing I've not worked out yet is why the brother hasn't been charged as an accomplice to the murder, the mother was for hiding the weapon but not the brother?
tbh I dislike the modern trend for charging family members with assisting offenders. It used to be taken as read that a villain's wife or mother would support him rather than call the police.
Actively hiding the weapon deserves charging, mother or not. I think the brother and father are also in court next week on charges of poseession of weapons.
This should hopefully make it clear that the only weapon allowed is a sheathed kirpan (or a folding knife of blade 3" or less).
It is worth noting there is no case in the UK of a Kirpan being ever used as a murder weapon, including in the Novak case.
Nowak was still murdered by an Asian racist, however.
With a big f*** off blade not a Kirpan.
I am genuinely unsure of your narrative over the last few days. Having twice called me a racist, I am unsure what constitutes a racist anymore.
You deny that Vickram Digwa is a racist?
Do I? First and foremost Digwa is a murderous criminal. He used race via his brother as an immediate defence. I don't know whether he killed Henry Nowak specifically because Henry was a white man. Henry's father has specifically branded Digwa a murderer.
"Anti-white racism is real, and there’ll be more Henry Nowaks until it’s crushed Critical race theory has taken us from Martin Luther King’s inspiring vision of a colour-blind society to today"
Employment rates (2022 figures): White 77% Black 69%
Stop and search (2023 figures) per 100,000: White British 5.6 Black 24.5
Court judges (2024 figures) v working age population (2021 figures): White 89.6% v 80.7% Black 1.3% v 4.4%
Median earnings (2022): White £14.35 per hour Black £13.53 per hour
Employment - controlled for education? Stop and search - controlled for location, criminal tendency (ie gang membership) etc? Judges - controlled for age? Earnings - controlled for education?
Those are all raw figures. Court judges is compared with the working age population.
The ADR UK report linked to above does more in terms of trying to control for other factors.
Raw figures are pretty meaningless.
It’s a particular bugbear of mine that people look at the percentage of, say, court judges in their 60s who are black and say “it’s too low, we’re racist”.
No. It just means that 35 years ago we had fewer black lawyers qualifying, and hence have a smaller pool of candidates for judges today. It will work itself out over time
Raw figures are a good starting point. But, yes, these are complex phenomena where it can be difficult to know what factors are at play…
… which is what I’ve been saying in reaction to the headless chickens running around claiming we have two tier policing and anti-white racism based on one event that we still don’t know the full details of.
A totally fiat point. Here's another one. The incident was in December last year, essentially 6 months ago. So why hasn't the investigation into the policed conduct been completed? It didn't need to wait for the court case to finish, the outcome would not affect what happened on the night. If I had any power I'd be getting that report finished asap.
But then the next problem will be if the report doesn't match the narrative for the far right, they will claim it's a whitewash. A better question might be how have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative?
The IOPC investigation clearly cannot be published until the court case is finished. Certain facts in the report will depend on the court case's conclusion, so it can't be finished before the court case concludes (e.g., it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too). Hopefully, we will see the report soon.
(I note that the IOPC's budget was cut by the Tories, more than a third in real terms since 2018, so that's going to make it harder for them to carry out thorough investigations in a timely manner.)
It is clear that some on the right are not interested in reading anything that might contradict that on which they have already made up their mind. This was apparent on the previous thread.
How have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative? Because the radical right in the US has been pushing a white grievance model, and the radical right in the UK have taken that up.
As I'm a bit thick, why would this be true? " it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too". The actions of the officers on the night do not go back and change via quantum entanglement if Digwa is found guilty or innocent surely? I totally understand why the report could not be released before the conclusion of the trial for obvious reasons. But as an investigation of the actions of the police officers, why does Digwa's guilt or innocence matter?
Can you not see a difference between "the police wrongly took the word of the murderer" and "the police wrongly took the word of someone who had been attacked by Nowak" (which was Digwa's defence AIUI)?
No. There was a man lying on the ground with 4 stab wounds which would prove to be fatal. Who the F*** cares who or what he was? He needed urgent medical help. He did not need handcuffs.
It's worth reading the judge's sentencing statement where he explains the police were seriously misled by the murderer and his brother and in his view acted reasonably. Murderers don't usually call the police to the crime scene, they had no reason to believe it was anything other than the two men claimed it to be. There was no visible wound when they put handcuffs on Nowak and the policeman was horrified when he found out Nowak had a serious injury a moment later.
The police are being maligned, not least by politicians who should know better. The case is not remotely similar to George Floyd where the murderer was actually the policeman, nor to Stephen Lawrence where the police simply didn't bother to investigate properly because the victim was black.
There will be, and should be, an investigation into the police operation and no doubt there will be some changes to procedure. It's not obvious from the sentencing remarks what generalised changes would have made a substantial difference to what happened to Henry Nowak, sadly.
I have read the remarks, which do not fully describe the police actions but confirm that no first aid would have saved Nowak's life, and have not seen the footage. One luxury I afford myself in old age is not watching things that will upset or offend me. However, those who have watched have commented that Nowak's injuries were discovered only after other police officers insisted on following the rules and checking him. If so, then it sounds like the police guidelines were correct but not followed, which is the opposite of what some politicians have suggested. But as I say, I've not checked the footage.
I've watched a lot of US bodycam footage and one of the things you sometimes notice is people getting very argumentative about who the police officer speaks to first. Having watched the Nowak footage I can now see why.
I didn't detect any hit of racial bias in the footage (the police officer didn't really respond to what the killer said about the turban and just asked him to move back) but what is clear is that the police allowed their first assessment of the incident to override what was in front of their eyes. Regardless of whether they could see any evidence of stabbing, it is clear from the footage that something is very wrong with Nowak whereas the killer is absolutely fine. Their priority absolutely should have been to check his medical condition before doing anything else.
The one thing I've not worked out yet is why the brother hasn't been charged as an accomplice to the murder, the mother was for hiding the weapon but not the brother?
tbh I dislike the modern trend for charging family members with assisting offenders. It used to be taken as read that a villain's wife or mother would support him rather than call the police.
Actively hiding the weapon deserves charging, mother or not. I think the brother and father are also in court next week on charges of poseession of weapons.
This should hopefully make it clear that the only weapon allowed is a sheathed kirpan (or a folding knife of blade 3" or less).
It is worth noting there is no case in the UK of a Kirpan being ever used as a murder weapon, including in the Novak case.
Nowak was still murdered by an Asian racist, however.
With a big f*** off blade not a Kirpan.
I am genuinely unsure of your narrative over the last few days. Having twice called me a racist, I am unsure what constitutes a racist anymore.
You deny that Vickram Digwa is a racist?
Do I? First and foremost Digwa is a murderous criminal. He used race via his brother as an immediate defence. I don't know whether he killed Henry Nowak specifically because Henry was a white man. Henry's father has specifically branded Digwa a murderer.
Therefore he is a racist.
As for you, your entire narrative is "How dare this brown chap [that would be me] disagree with my DEI-tinged view of this incident!".
Ergo, you are a racist. Counter-intuitive, but true.
Racism against non-white people has been ingrained in society and institutions for a long time. Have attempts to address this sometimes led to overcorrective behaviour? Doubtless they have. But the idea we have created a pervasive anti-white racism that can be viewed in the same light as the problem we are trying to combat is a nonsense. All it really shows, believing that, is a lack of appreciation for the scale and nature and importance of the underlying issue - the fight for racial equality.
The pendulum has now swung too far the other way.
Martin Luther King was right, that we should see people as people and not see race everywhere.
Hardly a pendulum. That would imply a white person in England now suffers similar levels of discrimination to a black person before all this civil rights malarky kicked off. I'll do you the service of not ascribing that absurd view to you and assume you're simply expressing the admirable sentiment that skin colour should not impact how a person is treated.
That's not a logical argument.
If in the past there was strong anti-black* racism, then the pendulum of politics swung and now there is mild anti-white* racism, it's not a valid argument to say that it isn't a pendulum swing. All that argument says is that is the pendulum hasn't reached the end of the anti-white stroke yet. It's also possible for a pendulum to be stopped swinging if someone grabs hold of it!
And yes, skin colour should not alter how a person is treated one iota, hence why all the stuff discriminating in favour of minorities is so egregiously wrong.
* this isn't about skin colour anyway, it's more about cultural background.
Good technical point re pendulums. But tbh I'm not going with the whole analogy. I mean, I suppose we could be on our merry way to 'the black man having the whip hand over the white man' in England's green and pleasant land but this is not my sense of things. In general I think we still have a way to go to eliminate discrimination against ethnic minorities.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I hope that policeman can never sleep properly again.
Same here. I hope he’s haunted by this for the rest of his natural.
I cannot wish that level of guilt on any man. For me the whole sorry business speaks of failures of procedures and training. The man is but a cog in the wheel for me.
The casual way he dismissed the victim when he said he’d been stabbed.
‘I don’t think you have mate’.
That’s shocking and you cannot just blame training or the system for such a lack of empathy.
"Anti-white racism is real, and there’ll be more Henry Nowaks until it’s crushed Critical race theory has taken us from Martin Luther King’s inspiring vision of a colour-blind society to today"
Employment rates (2022 figures): White 77% Black 69%
Stop and search (2023 figures) per 100,000: White British 5.6 Black 24.5
Court judges (2024 figures) v working age population (2021 figures): White 89.6% v 80.7% Black 1.3% v 4.4%
Median earnings (2022): White £14.35 per hour Black £13.53 per hour
Employment - controlled for education? Stop and search - controlled for location, criminal tendency (ie gang membership) etc? Judges - controlled for age? Earnings - controlled for education?
Those are all raw figures. Court judges is compared with the working age population.
The ADR UK report linked to above does more in terms of trying to control for other factors.
Raw figures are pretty meaningless.
It’s a particular bugbear of mine that people look at the percentage of, say, court judges in their 60s who are black and say “it’s too low, we’re racist”.
No. It just means that 35 years ago we had fewer black lawyers qualifying, and hence have a smaller pool of candidates for judges today. It will work itself out over time
Raw figures are a good starting point. But, yes, these are complex phenomena where it can be difficult to know what factors are at play…
… which is what I’ve been saying in reaction to the headless chickens running around claiming we have two tier policing and anti-white racism based on one event that we still don’t know the full details of.
A totally fiat point. Here's another one. The incident was in December last year, essentially 6 months ago. So why hasn't the investigation into the policed conduct been completed? It didn't need to wait for the court case to finish, the outcome would not affect what happened on the night. If I had any power I'd be getting that report finished asap.
But then the next problem will be if the report doesn't match the narrative for the far right, they will claim it's a whitewash. A better question might be how have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative?
The IOPC investigation clearly cannot be published until the court case is finished. Certain facts in the report will depend on the court case's conclusion, so it can't be finished before the court case concludes (e.g., it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too). Hopefully, we will see the report soon.
(I note that the IOPC's budget was cut by the Tories, more than a third in real terms since 2018, so that's going to make it harder for them to carry out thorough investigations in a timely manner.)
It is clear that some on the right are not interested in reading anything that might contradict that on which they have already made up their mind. This was apparent on the previous thread.
How have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative? Because the radical right in the US has been pushing a white grievance model, and the radical right in the UK have taken that up.
As I'm a bit thick, why would this be true? " it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too". The actions of the officers on the night do not go back and change via quantum entanglement if Digwa is found guilty or innocent surely? I totally understand why the report could not be released before the conclusion of the trial for obvious reasons. But as an investigation of the actions of the police officers, why does Digwa's guilt or innocence matter?
Can you not see a difference between "the police wrongly took the word of the murderer" and "the police wrongly took the word of someone who had been attacked by Nowak" (which was Digwa's defence AIUI)?
No. There was a man lying on the ground with 4 stab wounds which would prove to be fatal. Who the F*** cares who or what he was? He needed urgent medical help. He did not need handcuffs.
It's worth reading the judge's sentencing statement where he explains the police were seriously misled by the murderer and his brother and in his view acted reasonably. Murderers don't usually call the police to the crime scene, they had no reason to believe it was anything other than the two men claimed it to be. There was no visible wound when they put handcuffs on Nowak and the policeman was horrified when he found out Nowak had a serious injury a moment later.
The police are being maligned, not least by politicians who should know better. The case is not remotely similar to George Floyd where the murderer was actually the policeman, nor to Stephen Lawrence where the police simply didn't bother to investigate properly because the victim was black.
There will be, and should be, an investigation into the police operation and no doubt there will be some changes to procedure. It's not obvious from the sentencing remarks what generalised changes would have made a substantial difference to what happened to Henry Nowak, sadly.
I have read the remarks, which do not fully describe the police actions but confirm that no first aid would have saved Nowak's life, and have not seen the footage. One luxury I afford myself in old age is not watching things that will upset or offend me. However, those who have watched have commented that Nowak's injuries were discovered only after other police officers insisted on following the rules and checking him. If so, then it sounds like the police guidelines were correct but not followed, which is the opposite of what some politicians have suggested. But as I say, I've not checked the footage.
I've watched a lot of US bodycam footage and one of the things you sometimes notice is people getting very argumentative about who the police officer speaks to first. Having watched the Nowak footage I can now see why.
I didn't detect any hit of racial bias in the footage (the police officer didn't really respond to what the killer said about the turban and just asked him to move back) but what is clear is that the police allowed their first assessment of the incident to override what was in front of their eyes. Regardless of whether they could see any evidence of stabbing, it is clear from the footage that something is very wrong with Nowak whereas the killer is absolutely fine. Their priority absolutely should have been to check his medical condition before doing anything else.
The one thing I've not worked out yet is why the brother hasn't been charged as an accomplice to the murder, the mother was for hiding the weapon but not the brother?
tbh I dislike the modern trend for charging family members with assisting offenders. It used to be taken as read that a villain's wife or mother would support him rather than call the police.
Actively hiding the weapon deserves charging, mother or not. I think the brother and father are also in court next week on charges of poseession of weapons.
This should hopefully make it clear that the only weapon allowed is a sheathed kirpan (or a folding knife of blade 3" or less).
It is worth noting there is no case in the UK of a Kirpan being ever used as a murder weapon, including in the Novak case.
Nowak was still murdered by an Asian racist, however.
With a big f*** off blade not a Kirpan.
I am genuinely unsure of your narrative over the last few days. Having twice called me a racist, I am unsure what constitutes a racist anymore.
You deny that Vickram Digwa is a racist?
Do I? First and foremost Digwa is a murderous criminal. He used race via his brother as an immediate defence. I don't know whether he killed Henry Nowak specifically because Henry was a white man. Henry's father has specifically branded Digwa a murderer.
Therefore he is a racist.
As for you, your entire narrative is "How dare this brown chap [that would be me] disagree with my DEI-tinged view of this incident!".
Ergo, you are a racist. Counter-intuitive, but true.
I think I have been perfectly polite to you. At no point have I defended this evil murderer. I have, on the other hand called out Farage for a despicable whipping up and hijacking of a tragic case of murder.
You need to flag racists to get them off this platform.
"Allister Heath Anti-white racism is real, and there’ll be more Henry Nowaks until it’s crushed Critical race theory has taken us from Martin Luther King’s inspiring vision of a colour-blind society to today" (£)
MLK would be 100% behind critical race theory and measures taken to reduce racism in the police. The attempt to claim MLK’s vision by Heath would be disgusting if it wasn’t so ludicrous.
How can you possibly know that?
For what it's worth, I don't think he would be. Critical race theory was very far from the vision he espoused.
Might I recommend the following readings considering the matter for some different perspectives?
"...We must also be prepared to examine, carefully and seriously, religious practices or exemptions that permit the carrying of dangerous weapons in public, and other activities that are not conducive to the public good. We also need to examine where the law needs to change..."
One question. Why? Kirpans have been carried by Sikhs in the UK for decades. You would have been in your thirties/forties when that was sorted out. A kirpan was not used in the Nowak murder. Given that there is no reason to ban/further restrict them from the facts of the case, why is she advocating for this?
A line from "The Crown" occurs to me: "Our job is to calm more crises than we create". This is not calming the crisis, now is it?
The fact that the murderer routinely carried around knives with impunity is absolutely relevant to the case.
The religious knife in question was not used and is not relevant
"Anti-white racism is real, and there’ll be more Henry Nowaks until it’s crushed Critical race theory has taken us from Martin Luther King’s inspiring vision of a colour-blind society to today"
Employment rates (2022 figures): White 77% Black 69%
Stop and search (2023 figures) per 100,000: White British 5.6 Black 24.5
Court judges (2024 figures) v working age population (2021 figures): White 89.6% v 80.7% Black 1.3% v 4.4%
Median earnings (2022): White £14.35 per hour Black £13.53 per hour
Employment - controlled for education? Stop and search - controlled for location, criminal tendency (ie gang membership) etc? Judges - controlled for age? Earnings - controlled for education?
Those are all raw figures. Court judges is compared with the working age population.
The ADR UK report linked to above does more in terms of trying to control for other factors.
Raw figures are pretty meaningless.
It’s a particular bugbear of mine that people look at the percentage of, say, court judges in their 60s who are black and say “it’s too low, we’re racist”.
No. It just means that 35 years ago we had fewer black lawyers qualifying, and hence have a smaller pool of candidates for judges today. It will work itself out over time
Raw figures are a good starting point. But, yes, these are complex phenomena where it can be difficult to know what factors are at play…
… which is what I’ve been saying in reaction to the headless chickens running around claiming we have two tier policing and anti-white racism based on one event that we still don’t know the full details of.
A totally fiat point. Here's another one. The incident was in December last year, essentially 6 months ago. So why hasn't the investigation into the policed conduct been completed? It didn't need to wait for the court case to finish, the outcome would not affect what happened on the night. If I had any power I'd be getting that report finished asap.
But then the next problem will be if the report doesn't match the narrative for the far right, they will claim it's a whitewash. A better question might be how have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative?
The IOPC investigation clearly cannot be published until the court case is finished. Certain facts in the report will depend on the court case's conclusion, so it can't be finished before the court case concludes (e.g., it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too). Hopefully, we will see the report soon.
(I note that the IOPC's budget was cut by the Tories, more than a third in real terms since 2018, so that's going to make it harder for them to carry out thorough investigations in a timely manner.)
It is clear that some on the right are not interested in reading anything that might contradict that on which they have already made up their mind. This was apparent on the previous thread.
How have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative? Because the radical right in the US has been pushing a white grievance model, and the radical right in the UK have taken that up.
As I'm a bit thick, why would this be true? " it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too". The actions of the officers on the night do not go back and change via quantum entanglement if Digwa is found guilty or innocent surely? I totally understand why the report could not be released before the conclusion of the trial for obvious reasons. But as an investigation of the actions of the police officers, why does Digwa's guilt or innocence matter?
Can you not see a difference between "the police wrongly took the word of the murderer" and "the police wrongly took the word of someone who had been attacked by Nowak" (which was Digwa's defence AIUI)?
No. There was a man lying on the ground with 4 stab wounds which would prove to be fatal. Who the F*** cares who or what he was? He needed urgent medical help. He did not need handcuffs.
It's worth reading the judge's sentencing statement where he explains the police were seriously misled by the murderer and his brother and in his view acted reasonably. Murderers don't usually call the police to the crime scene, they had no reason to believe it was anything other than the two men claimed it to be. There was no visible wound when they put handcuffs on Nowak and the policeman was horrified when he found out Nowak had a serious injury a moment later.
The police are being maligned, not least by politicians who should know better. The case is not remotely similar to George Floyd where the murderer was actually the policeman, nor to Stephen Lawrence where the police simply didn't bother to investigate properly because the victim was black.
There will be, and should be, an investigation into the police operation and no doubt there will be some changes to procedure. It's not obvious from the sentencing remarks what generalised changes would have made a substantial difference to what happened to Henry Nowak, sadly.
The judge's remarks are fine as far as the circumstance go, but seem ignorant of existing police policy (and training) which would not have suggested the automatic handcuffing* of Nowak, even if he had been the assailant, and would have mandated a far more thorough assessment of his condition.
*Handcuffing by the police, without reasonable justification, constitutes an assault. The circumstance here, with Nowak lying on the ground, do not seem to provide that justification.
I would expect any review into police procedure to focus on this. But I wouldn't rush to assume existing police procedure wasn't followed, on the basis if someone is perceived to be a potential threat you handcuff first to mitigate the threat, investigate, then release if there is no threat. As far as I know this happened in rapid order with Nowak but tragically he was already dying.
The police procedure was completely followed, which is the problem.
One guy said “I’ve been stabbed”, the other guy said “That guy was racist”, and the police prioritised the second complaint over the first, as they were trained to do.
Don't let a lack of evidence about both what actually happened and police training get in the way of a strongly held prejudice. The judge made clear in his sentencing remarks that the police had no reason to suspect initially Nowak had been stabbed. Once they did, moments later, it was too late.
Why did the officer dismiss Nowak's complaint immediately ? Why did the policeman then say "SHOW ME (Where he had been stabbed)" as Nowak was being cuffed ? Why did the police officer use "mate" in a condescending tone and not be respectful using either "Sir" or at least not taking that tone ? Why was Nowak cuffed then dragged before being checked over ?
You're making all sorts of excuses for them and it's pathetic.
Congrats on getting your own Charlie. It's been a bit of a wait, but worth it.
"...We must also be prepared to examine, carefully and seriously, religious practices or exemptions that permit the carrying of dangerous weapons in public, and other activities that are not conducive to the public good. We also need to examine where the law needs to change..."
One question. Why? Kirpans have been carried by Sikhs in the UK for decades. You would have been in your thirties/forties when that was sorted out. A kirpan was not used in the Nowak murder. Given that there is no reason to ban/further restrict them from the facts of the case, why is she advocating for this?
A line from "The Crown" occurs to me: "Our job is to calm more crises than we create". This is not calming the crisis, now is it?
The fact that the murderer routinely carried around knives with impunity is absolutely relevant to the case.
The religious knife in question was not used and is not relevant
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
"Anti-white racism is real, and there’ll be more Henry Nowaks until it’s crushed Critical race theory has taken us from Martin Luther King’s inspiring vision of a colour-blind society to today"
Employment rates (2022 figures): White 77% Black 69%
Stop and search (2023 figures) per 100,000: White British 5.6 Black 24.5
Court judges (2024 figures) v working age population (2021 figures): White 89.6% v 80.7% Black 1.3% v 4.4%
Median earnings (2022): White £14.35 per hour Black £13.53 per hour
Employment - controlled for education? Stop and search - controlled for location, criminal tendency (ie gang membership) etc? Judges - controlled for age? Earnings - controlled for education?
Those are all raw figures. Court judges is compared with the working age population.
The ADR UK report linked to above does more in terms of trying to control for other factors.
Raw figures are pretty meaningless.
It’s a particular bugbear of mine that people look at the percentage of, say, court judges in their 60s who are black and say “it’s too low, we’re racist”.
No. It just means that 35 years ago we had fewer black lawyers qualifying, and hence have a smaller pool of candidates for judges today. It will work itself out over time
Raw figures are a good starting point. But, yes, these are complex phenomena where it can be difficult to know what factors are at play…
… which is what I’ve been saying in reaction to the headless chickens running around claiming we have two tier policing and anti-white racism based on one event that we still don’t know the full details of.
A totally fiat point. Here's another one. The incident was in December last year, essentially 6 months ago. So why hasn't the investigation into the policed conduct been completed? It didn't need to wait for the court case to finish, the outcome would not affect what happened on the night. If I had any power I'd be getting that report finished asap.
But then the next problem will be if the report doesn't match the narrative for the far right, they will claim it's a whitewash. A better question might be how have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative?
The IOPC investigation clearly cannot be published until the court case is finished. Certain facts in the report will depend on the court case's conclusion, so it can't be finished before the court case concludes (e.g., it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too). Hopefully, we will see the report soon.
(I note that the IOPC's budget was cut by the Tories, more than a third in real terms since 2018, so that's going to make it harder for them to carry out thorough investigations in a timely manner.)
It is clear that some on the right are not interested in reading anything that might contradict that on which they have already made up their mind. This was apparent on the previous thread.
How have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative? Because the radical right in the US has been pushing a white grievance model, and the radical right in the UK have taken that up.
As I'm a bit thick, why would this be true? " it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too". The actions of the officers on the night do not go back and change via quantum entanglement if Digwa is found guilty or innocent surely? I totally understand why the report could not be released before the conclusion of the trial for obvious reasons. But as an investigation of the actions of the police officers, why does Digwa's guilt or innocence matter?
Can you not see a difference between "the police wrongly took the word of the murderer" and "the police wrongly took the word of someone who had been attacked by Nowak" (which was Digwa's defence AIUI)?
No. There was a man lying on the ground with 4 stab wounds which would prove to be fatal. Who the F*** cares who or what he was? He needed urgent medical help. He did not need handcuffs.
It's worth reading the judge's sentencing statement where he explains the police were seriously misled by the murderer and his brother and in his view acted reasonably. Murderers don't usually call the police to the crime scene, they had no reason to believe it was anything other than the two men claimed it to be. There was no visible wound when they put handcuffs on Nowak and the policeman was horrified when he found out Nowak had a serious injury a moment later.
The police are being maligned, not least by politicians who should know better. The case is not remotely similar to George Floyd where the murderer was actually the policeman, nor to Stephen Lawrence where the police simply didn't bother to investigate properly because the victim was black.
There will be, and should be, an investigation into the police operation and no doubt there will be some changes to procedure. It's not obvious from the sentencing remarks what generalised changes would have made a substantial difference to what happened to Henry Nowak, sadly.
I have read the remarks, which do not fully describe the police actions but confirm that no first aid would have saved Nowak's life, and have not seen the footage. One luxury I afford myself in old age is not watching things that will upset or offend me. However, those who have watched have commented that Nowak's injuries were discovered only after other police officers insisted on following the rules and checking him. If so, then it sounds like the police guidelines were correct but not followed, which is the opposite of what some politicians have suggested. But as I say, I've not checked the footage.
I've watched a lot of US bodycam footage and one of the things you sometimes notice is people getting very argumentative about who the police officer speaks to first. Having watched the Nowak footage I can now see why.
I didn't detect any hit of racial bias in the footage (the police officer didn't really respond to what the killer said about the turban and just asked him to move back) but what is clear is that the police allowed their first assessment of the incident to override what was in front of their eyes. Regardless of whether they could see any evidence of stabbing, it is clear from the footage that something is very wrong with Nowak whereas the killer is absolutely fine. Their priority absolutely should have been to check his medical condition before doing anything else.
The one thing I've not worked out yet is why the brother hasn't been charged as an accomplice to the murder, the mother was for hiding the weapon but not the brother?
tbh I dislike the modern trend for charging family members with assisting offenders. It used to be taken as read that a villain's wife or mother would support him rather than call the police.
Actively hiding the weapon deserves charging, mother or not. I think the brother and father are also in court next week on charges of poseession of weapons.
This should hopefully make it clear that the only weapon allowed is a sheathed kirpan (or a folding knife of blade 3" or less).
It is worth noting there is no case in the UK of a Kirpan being ever used as a murder weapon, including in the Novak case.
Nowak was still murdered by an Asian racist, however.
With a big f*** off blade not a Kirpan.
I am genuinely unsure of your narrative over the last few days. Having twice called me a racist, I am unsure what constitutes a racist anymore.
You deny that Vickram Digwa is a racist?
Do I? First and foremost Digwa is a murderous criminal. He used race via his brother as an immediate defence. I don't know whether he killed Henry Nowak specifically because Henry was a white man. Henry's father has specifically branded Digwa a murderer.
Therefore he is a racist.
As for you, your entire narrative is "How dare this brown chap [that would be me] disagree with my DEI-tinged view of this incident!".
Ergo, you are a racist. Counter-intuitive, but true.
I think I have been perfectly polite to you. At no point have I defended this evil murderer. I have, on the other hand called out Farage for a despicable whipping up and hijacking of a tragic case of murder.
You need to flag racists to get them off this platform.
You have been randomly categorised as Group_X for the purposes of this conversation. Therefore you are guilt of all the attitudes, beliefs and values of Group_X. There is no appeal.
Racism against non-white people has been ingrained in society and institutions for a long time. Have attempts to address this sometimes led to overcorrective behaviour? Doubtless they have. But the idea we have created a pervasive anti-white racism that can be viewed in the same light as the problem we are trying to combat is a nonsense. All it really shows, believing that, is a lack of appreciation for the scale and nature and importance of the underlying issue - the fight for racial equality.
The pendulum has now swung too far the other way.
Martin Luther King was right, that we should see people as people and not see race everywhere.
Hardly a pendulum. That would imply a white person in England now suffers similar levels of discrimination to a black person before all this civil rights malarky kicked off. I'll do you the service of not ascribing that absurd view to you and assume you're simply expressing the admirable sentiment that skin colour should not impact how a person is treated.
That's not a logical argument.
If in the past there was strong anti-black* racism, then the pendulum of politics swung and now there is mild anti-white* racism, it's not a valid argument to say that it isn't a pendulum swing. All that argument says is that is the pendulum hasn't reached the end of the anti-white stroke yet. It's also possible for a pendulum to be stopped swinging if someone grabs hold of it!
And yes, skin colour should not alter how a person is treated one iota, hence why all the stuff discriminating in favour of minorities is so egregiously wrong.
* this isn't about skin colour anyway, it's more about cultural background.
There is still lots of anti-black racism and very little anti-white racism. Claims of anti-white racism come from the radical right in the US who are whipping up sentiment among people who object to being less racist than they used to be.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
But at least you’re doing your bit to save the planet. Surely that is what matters.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
Racism against non-white people has been ingrained in society and institutions for a long time. Have attempts to address this sometimes led to overcorrective behaviour? Doubtless they have. But the idea we have created a pervasive anti-white racism that can be viewed in the same light as the problem we are trying to combat is a nonsense. All it really shows, believing that, is a lack of appreciation for the scale and nature and importance of the underlying issue - the fight for racial equality.
The pendulum has now swung too far the other way.
Martin Luther King was right, that we should see people as people and not see race everywhere.
Hardly a pendulum. That would imply a white person in England now suffers similar levels of discrimination to a black person before all this civil rights malarky kicked off. I'll do you the service of not ascribing that absurd view to you and assume you're simply expressing the admirable sentiment that skin colour should not impact how a person is treated.
That's not a logical argument.
If in the past there was strong anti-black* racism, then the pendulum of politics swung and now there is mild anti-white* racism, it's not a valid argument to say that it isn't a pendulum swing. All that argument says is that is the pendulum hasn't reached the end of the anti-white stroke yet. It's also possible for a pendulum to be stopped swinging if someone grabs hold of it!
And yes, skin colour should not alter how a person is treated one iota, hence why all the stuff discriminating in favour of minorities is so egregiously wrong.
* this isn't about skin colour anyway, it's more about cultural background.
There is still lots of anti-black racism and very little anti-white racism. Claims of anti-white racism come from the radical right in the US who are whipping up sentiment among people who object to being less racist than they used to be.
Phew, that’s a relief.
I bet these rascals even claim men are the victims of sexism too. The rotters
Is there a reason Kirpans (yes I know one wasn’t actually used in this situation) have to have a sharp blade and point?
Surely as they are symbolic and shouldn’t be used as a weapon in the UK there could be no objection to them having to be non-bladed/pointed and then totally safe to carry as a symbolic object.
Christians who are so inclined to demonstrate their beliefs through objects don’t literally carry around a wooden crucifix with a body nailed on, Jews funnily enough don’t lug around and actual star and Muslims aren’t packing a crescent moon in their pockets.
Different religions say different things. I don’t see the logic of your final paragraph.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
"Anti-white racism is real, and there’ll be more Henry Nowaks until it’s crushed Critical race theory has taken us from Martin Luther King’s inspiring vision of a colour-blind society to today"
Employment rates (2022 figures): White 77% Black 69%
Stop and search (2023 figures) per 100,000: White British 5.6 Black 24.5
Court judges (2024 figures) v working age population (2021 figures): White 89.6% v 80.7% Black 1.3% v 4.4%
Median earnings (2022): White £14.35 per hour Black £13.53 per hour
Employment - controlled for education? Stop and search - controlled for location, criminal tendency (ie gang membership) etc? Judges - controlled for age? Earnings - controlled for education?
Those are all raw figures. Court judges is compared with the working age population.
The ADR UK report linked to above does more in terms of trying to control for other factors.
Raw figures are pretty meaningless.
It’s a particular bugbear of mine that people look at the percentage of, say, court judges in their 60s who are black and say “it’s too low, we’re racist”.
No. It just means that 35 years ago we had fewer black lawyers qualifying, and hence have a smaller pool of candidates for judges today. It will work itself out over time
Raw figures are a good starting point. But, yes, these are complex phenomena where it can be difficult to know what factors are at play…
… which is what I’ve been saying in reaction to the headless chickens running around claiming we have two tier policing and anti-white racism based on one event that we still don’t know the full details of.
A totally fiat point. Here's another one. The incident was in December last year, essentially 6 months ago. So why hasn't the investigation into the policed conduct been completed? It didn't need to wait for the court case to finish, the outcome would not affect what happened on the night. If I had any power I'd be getting that report finished asap.
But then the next problem will be if the report doesn't match the narrative for the far right, they will claim it's a whitewash. A better question might be how have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative?
The IOPC investigation clearly cannot be published until the court case is finished. Certain facts in the report will depend on the court case's conclusion, so it can't be finished before the court case concludes (e.g., it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too). Hopefully, we will see the report soon.
(I note that the IOPC's budget was cut by the Tories, more than a third in real terms since 2018, so that's going to make it harder for them to carry out thorough investigations in a timely manner.)
It is clear that some on the right are not interested in reading anything that might contradict that on which they have already made up their mind. This was apparent on the previous thread.
How have we reached a situation where people believe this narrative? Because the radical right in the US has been pushing a white grievance model, and the radical right in the UK have taken that up.
As I'm a bit thick, why would this be true? " it is pertinent to the IOPC investigation whether Digwa was found guilty or not, many of the judge's comments are relevant too". The actions of the officers on the night do not go back and change via quantum entanglement if Digwa is found guilty or innocent surely? I totally understand why the report could not be released before the conclusion of the trial for obvious reasons. But as an investigation of the actions of the police officers, why does Digwa's guilt or innocence matter?
Can you not see a difference between "the police wrongly took the word of the murderer" and "the police wrongly took the word of someone who had been attacked by Nowak" (which was Digwa's defence AIUI)?
No. There was a man lying on the ground with 4 stab wounds which would prove to be fatal. Who the F*** cares who or what he was? He needed urgent medical help. He did not need handcuffs.
It's worth reading the judge's sentencing statement where he explains the police were seriously misled by the murderer and his brother and in his view acted reasonably. Murderers don't usually call the police to the crime scene, they had no reason to believe it was anything other than the two men claimed it to be. There was no visible wound when they put handcuffs on Nowak and the policeman was horrified when he found out Nowak had a serious injury a moment later.
The police are being maligned, not least by politicians who should know better. The case is not remotely similar to George Floyd where the murderer was actually the policeman, nor to Stephen Lawrence where the police simply didn't bother to investigate properly because the victim was black.
There will be, and should be, an investigation into the police operation and no doubt there will be some changes to procedure. It's not obvious from the sentencing remarks what generalised changes would have made a substantial difference to what happened to Henry Nowak, sadly.
The judge's remarks are fine as far as the circumstance go, but seem ignorant of existing police policy (and training) which would not have suggested the automatic handcuffing* of Nowak, even if he had been the assailant, and would have mandated a far more thorough assessment of his condition.
*Handcuffing by the police, without reasonable justification, constitutes an assault. The circumstance here, with Nowak lying on the ground, do not seem to provide that justification.
I would expect any review into police procedure to focus on this. But I wouldn't rush to assume existing police procedure wasn't followed, on the basis if someone is perceived to be a potential threat you handcuff first to mitigate the threat, investigate, then release if there is no threat. As far as I know this happened in rapid order with Nowak but tragically he was already dying.
The police procedure was completely followed, which is the problem.
One guy said “I’ve been stabbed”, the other guy said “That guy was racist”, and the police prioritised the second complaint over the first, as they were trained to do.
Don't let a lack of evidence about both what actually happened and police training get in the way of a strongly held prejudice. The judge made clear in his sentencing remarks that the police had no reason to suspect initially Nowak had been stabbed. Once they did, moments later, it was too late.
Why did the officer dismiss Nowak's complaint immediately ? Why did the policeman then say "SHOW ME (Where he had been stabbed)" as Nowak was being cuffed ? Why did the police officer use "mate" in a condescending tone and not be respectful using either "Sir" or at least not taking that tone ? Why was Nowak cuffed then dragged before being checked over ?
You're making all sorts of excuses for them and it's pathetic.
I am not making excuses. I would further point out the police officer treated Nowak pretty much the same way they treat other people they arrest.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
Unless you drop them on the bathroom floor of course!
I predicted a white wash before this series started. Check my posts.
I think a NZ clean sweep is unlikely. England have a habit of losing the first match of the summer and then winning the second (lack of appropriate warm-up anyone?). NZ are a decent side but England are at home and have all time great Root and future all time great Brook, plus enough decent bowling. If asked for a series score I'd go 2-1 England.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
But at least you’re doing your bit to save the planet. Surely that is what matters.
Wonder how many white to brown egg switches are needed to equal the carbon budget of a data centre
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
Test their green credentials. Say you will waive the daily room clean - if they agree to plant a tree for each day you do so.
"...We must also be prepared to examine, carefully and seriously, religious practices or exemptions that permit the carrying of dangerous weapons in public, and other activities that are not conducive to the public good. We also need to examine where the law needs to change..."
One question. Why? Kirpans have been carried by Sikhs in the UK for decades. You would have been in your thirties/forties when that was sorted out. A kirpan was not used in the Nowak murder. Given that there is no reason to ban/further restrict them from the facts of the case, why is she advocating for this?
A line from "The Crown" occurs to me: "Our job is to calm more crises than we create". This is not calming the crisis, now is it?
The fact that the murderer routinely carried around knives with impunity is absolutely relevant to the case.
The religious knife in question was not used and is not relevant
That is not true. For those of us who are comfortable to consider Digwa a disgusting murderer, but are uncomfortable at Farage's interpretation we have been reassured by the Judge's sober summing up.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
At £250 a night, I don't expect to have to ask. Also apparently I have to ask today to get housekeeping tomorrow....
My experience of Asia they have it right, at least when you spend reasonable amount of money. The hotels I stayed in China for £150 a night were absolutely top notch from the rooms to the service. They couldn't do enough for you and of course being Asia, no bloody tipping like the States. Even a £70 / night one at a airport in China, I had my own fully equipped appartment.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
But at least you’re doing your bit to save the planet. Surely that is what matters.
Wonder how many white to brown egg switches are needed to equal the carbon budget of a data centre
Well I bought 10 today, eggs not boxes as my surname isn’t Rockefeller, so I’m chipping in.
I predicted a white wash before this series started. Check my posts.
I think a NZ clean sweep is unlikely. England have a habit of losing the first match of the summer and then winning the second (lack of appropriate warm-up anyone?). NZ are a decent side but England are at home and have all time great Root and future all time great Brook, plus enough decent bowling. If asked for a series score I'd go 2-1 England.
England are playing with the same failed regime. I think 3-0 has to be extremely likely.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
At £250 a night, I don't expect to have to ask. Also apparently I have to ask today to get housekeeping tomorrow....
My experience of Asia they have it right, at least when you spend reasonable amount of money. The hotels I stayed in China for £150 a night were absolutely top notch from the rooms to the service. They couldn't do enough for you and of course being Asia, no bloody tipping like the States. Even a £70 / night one at a airport in China, I had my own fully equipped appartment.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
The one I'm staying in at the moment still defaults to full cleaning. Supposedly Admiral Nelson stayed in the room I'm in back in 1800, though I don't think he left a tripadvisor review.
One Japanese hotel I was in last year had "reduced cleaning" as an upfront reduced cost tariff option when you booked.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
At £250 a night, I don't expect to have to ask. Also apparently I have to ask today to get housekeeping tomorrow....
My experience of Asia they have it right, at least when you spend reasonable amount of money. The hotels I stayed in China for £150 a night were absolutely top notch from the rooms to the service. They couldn't do enough for you and of course being Asia, no bloody tipping like the States. Even a £70 / night one at a airport in China, I had my own fully equipped appartment.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
At £250 a night, I don't expect to have to ask. Also apparently I have to ask today to get housekeeping tomorrow....
My experience of Asia they have it right, at least when you spend reasonable amount of money. The hotels I stayed in China for £150 a night were absolutely top notch from the rooms to the service. They couldn't do enough for you and of course being Asia, no bloody tipping like the States. Even a £70 / night one at a airport in China, I had my own fully equipped appartment.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
The one I'm staying in at the moment still defaults to full cleaning. Supposedly Admiral Nelson stayed in the room I'm in back in 1800, though I don't think he left a tripadvisor review.
One Japanese hotel I was in last year had "reduced cleaning" as an upfront reduced cost tariff option when you booked.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
At £250 a night, I don't expect to have to ask. Also apparently I have to ask today to get housekeeping tomorrow....
My experience of Asia they have it right, at least when you spend reasonable amount of money. The hotels I stayed in China for £150 a night were absolutely top notch from the rooms to the service. They couldn't do enough for you and of course being Asia, no bloody tipping like the States. Even a £70 / night one at a airport in China, I had my own fully equipped appartment.
It seems that when it is a matter of request, 40% of guests do not request cleaning. Based on a very quick lookup.
So I guess the question is whether you would choose to pay a higher price for the room in order to have a lot of cleaning done that almost half of the guests do not want?
The market solution would be for the hotel to offer an "included cleaning every day" service at a price of £255 per night, since it is clearly a service that a lot of people do not want.
Personally I like it if I am in a hotel for say a week, as it is more efficient, and I like efficiency.
Racism against non-white people has been ingrained in society and institutions for a long time. Have attempts to address this sometimes led to overcorrective behaviour? Doubtless they have. But the idea we have created a pervasive anti-white racism that can be viewed in the same light as the problem we are trying to combat is a nonsense. All it really shows, believing that, is a lack of appreciation for the scale and nature and importance of the underlying issue - the fight for racial equality.
The pendulum has now swung too far the other way.
Martin Luther King was right, that we should see people as people and not see race everywhere.
Hardly a pendulum. That would imply a white person in England now suffers similar levels of discrimination to a black person before all this civil rights malarky kicked off. I'll do you the service of not ascribing that absurd view to you and assume you're simply expressing the admirable sentiment that skin colour should not impact how a person is treated.
That's not a logical argument.
If in the past there was strong anti-black* racism, then the pendulum of politics swung and now there is mild anti-white* racism, it's not a valid argument to say that it isn't a pendulum swing. All that argument says is that is the pendulum hasn't reached the end of the anti-white stroke yet. It's also possible for a pendulum to be stopped swinging if someone grabs hold of it!
And yes, skin colour should not alter how a person is treated one iota, hence why all the stuff discriminating in favour of minorities is so egregiously wrong.
* this isn't about skin colour anyway, it's more about cultural background.
There is still lots of anti-black racism and very little anti-white racism. Claims of anti-white racism come from the radical right in the US who are whipping up sentiment among people who object to being less racist than they used to be.
Shall I tell you the biggest hidden racism in the UK
In work progression, in life, in culture
Endemic
Thats regional accent Apartheid.
Pigeon holed by your accent and assumption of intelegence.
One if the biggest culprits and instigator were Pathe News and the BBC.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
At £250 a night, I don't expect to have to ask. Also apparently I have to ask today to get housekeeping tomorrow....
My experience of Asia they have it right, at least when you spend reasonable amount of money. The hotels I stayed in China for £150 a night were absolutely top notch from the rooms to the service. They couldn't do enough for you and of course being Asia, no bloody tipping like the States. Even a £70 / night one at a airport in China, I had my own fully equipped appartment.
It seems that when it is a matter of request, 40% of guests do not request cleaning. Based on a very quick lookup.
So I guess the question is whether you would choose to pay a higher price for the room in order to have a lot of cleaning done that almost half of the guests do not want?
The market solution would be for the hotel to offer an "included cleaning every day" service at a price of £255 per night, since it is clearly a service that a lot of people do not want.
Personally I like it if I am in a hotel for say a week, as it is more efficient, and I like efficiency.
Obviously, that could simply be because people don't like to have to ask. I know I wouldn't. I almost didn't bother to ask reception for a bath plug that one time when I found it was missing (apparently some hotel guests steal them).
Racism against non-white people has been ingrained in society and institutions for a long time. Have attempts to address this sometimes led to overcorrective behaviour? Doubtless they have. But the idea we have created a pervasive anti-white racism that can be viewed in the same light as the problem we are trying to combat is a nonsense. All it really shows, believing that, is a lack of appreciation for the scale and nature and importance of the underlying issue - the fight for racial equality.
The pendulum has now swung too far the other way.
Martin Luther King was right, that we should see people as people and not see race everywhere.
Hardly a pendulum. That would imply a white person in England now suffers similar levels of discrimination to a black person before all this civil rights malarky kicked off. I'll do you the service of not ascribing that absurd view to you and assume you're simply expressing the admirable sentiment that skin colour should not impact how a person is treated.
That's not a logical argument.
If in the past there was strong anti-black* racism, then the pendulum of politics swung and now there is mild anti-white* racism, it's not a valid argument to say that it isn't a pendulum swing. All that argument says is that is the pendulum hasn't reached the end of the anti-white stroke yet. It's also possible for a pendulum to be stopped swinging if someone grabs hold of it!
And yes, skin colour should not alter how a person is treated one iota, hence why all the stuff discriminating in favour of minorities is so egregiously wrong.
* this isn't about skin colour anyway, it's more about cultural background.
There is still lots of anti-black racism and very little anti-white racism. Claims of anti-white racism come from the radical right in the US who are whipping up sentiment among people who object to being less racist than they used to be.
Shall I tell you the biggest hidden racism in the UK
In work progression, in life, in culture
Endemic
Thats regional accent Apartheid.
Pigeon holed by your accent and assumption of intelegence.
One if the biggest culprits and instigator were Pathe News and the BBC.
You’re not wrong there
Brummie and especially yam yam accents are somewhat looked down on
We’re thought of as being a denser version of Barry from Auf Wiedersehen Pet.
Andrei Bezrukov, a political analyst and adviser to Rosneft CEO Igor Sechin, said at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum that Russia should prepare for a prolonged war lasting "the next two decades."
"We need to learn to live with this war. This doesn't mean we have to stop everything and cease developing the economy," said Bezrukov, a retired colonel in Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service.
"On the contrary — we need to build our state system and economy in such a way that it fulfils not only the task of development, but also the task of defense."
You only have to prepare for a war lasting decades if you cannot win it in years, let alone months or days. I take this as a sign of Russia adjusting to the reality of not being able to win the war against Ukraine. Once they accept that they can't win, it surely won't be long until they realise that the longer the war goes on the worse things get for them, and then they will be eager to agree to a ceasefire on the current front line.
But will Putin be able to admit to the failure of his war?
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
At £250 a night, I don't expect to have to ask. Also apparently I have to ask today to get housekeeping tomorrow....
My experience of Asia they have it right, at least when you spend reasonable amount of money. The hotels I stayed in China for £150 a night were absolutely top notch from the rooms to the service. They couldn't do enough for you and of course being Asia, no bloody tipping like the States. Even a £70 / night one at a airport in China, I had my own fully equipped appartment.
Over the years I've stayed (not often) in some impressive hotels. In the eighties I stayed in the Waldorf Astoria at $185 a night and I have stayed in the New Otani in Tokyo, but enough of that. At £152 a night for the Premier Inn at Rhyddlan, I 'd rather save my money and sleep in the car.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
At £250 a night, I don't expect to have to ask. Also apparently I have to ask today to get housekeeping tomorrow....
My experience of Asia they have it right, at least when you spend reasonable amount of money. The hotels I stayed in China for £150 a night were absolutely top notch from the rooms to the service. They couldn't do enough for you and of course being Asia, no bloody tipping like the States. Even a £70 / night one at a airport in China, I had my own fully equipped appartment.
It seems that when it is a matter of request, 40% of guests do not request cleaning. Based on a very quick lookup.
So I guess the question is whether you would choose to pay a higher price for the room in order to have a lot of cleaning done that almost half of the guests do not want?
The market solution would be for the hotel to offer an "included cleaning every day" service at a price of £255 per night, since it is clearly a service that a lot of people do not want.
Personally I like it if I am in a hotel for say a week, as it is more efficient, and I like efficiency.
Focus on the cleaning is the wrong part, its general housekeeping e.g i am out of coffee pods, i now need to go and ask if somebody will give me more. My towels are wet, i want dry ones. etc.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
At £250 a night, I don't expect to have to ask. Also apparently I have to ask today to get housekeeping tomorrow....
My experience of Asia they have it right, at least when you spend reasonable amount of money. The hotels I stayed in China for £150 a night were absolutely top notch from the rooms to the service. They couldn't do enough for you and of course being Asia, no bloody tipping like the States. Even a £70 / night one at a airport in China, I had my own fully equipped appartment.
Over the years I've stayed (not often) in some impressive hotels. In the eighties I stayed in the Waldorf Astoria at $185 a night and I have stayed in the New Otani in Tokyo, but enough of that. At £152 a night for the Premier Inn at Rhyddlan, I 'd rather save my money and sleep in the car.
So much for Sir Lenny Henry claiming ‘everything premier but the price’
He might be a crappy painter, but Hunter Biden has serious potential as a wind up artist.
Let me ask you a question Mike- if I’m telling you I smoked crack, why in the world would I lie about snorting it? There’s plenty of pictures of me smoking crack doing all sorts of stupid things, with all sorts of people and rarely with clothes on. But not snorting cocaine. https://x.com/HunterBiden/status/2062248661740814712
Myself and two friends paid £320 a night each for our room in Budapest. Unfortunately, we were opposite the PSG hotel. You can just make out the European Cup in this image:
The Guardian over-by-over commentator taking an interesting approach to engagement with their readers:
"The entitled moaning in my inbox has certainly stayed the same, even if the manner of England’s struggles with the bat today bear almost no resemblance to what happened in Australia."
I have sympathy with the point of view, but thought that they might be able to find a less aggressive way of stating it.
Racism against non-white people has been ingrained in society and institutions for a long time. Have attempts to address this sometimes led to overcorrective behaviour? Doubtless they have. But the idea we have created a pervasive anti-white racism that can be viewed in the same light as the problem we are trying to combat is a nonsense. All it really shows, believing that, is a lack of appreciation for the scale and nature and importance of the underlying issue - the fight for racial equality.
The pendulum has now swung too far the other way.
Martin Luther King was right, that we should see people as people and not see race everywhere.
Hardly a pendulum. That would imply a white person in England now suffers similar levels of discrimination to a black person before all this civil rights malarky kicked off. I'll do you the service of not ascribing that absurd view to you and assume you're simply expressing the admirable sentiment that skin colour should not impact how a person is treated.
That's not a logical argument.
If in the past there was strong anti-black* racism, then the pendulum of politics swung and now there is mild anti-white* racism, it's not a valid argument to say that it isn't a pendulum swing. All that argument says is that is the pendulum hasn't reached the end of the anti-white stroke yet. It's also possible for a pendulum to be stopped swinging if someone grabs hold of it!
And yes, skin colour should not alter how a person is treated one iota, hence why all the stuff discriminating in favour of minorities is so egregiously wrong.
* this isn't about skin colour anyway, it's more about cultural background.
There is still lots of anti-black racism and very little anti-white racism. Claims of anti-white racism come from the radical right in the US who are whipping up sentiment among people who object to being less racist than they used to be.
Maybe Hampshire is different, but nobody would yet accuse the Met of having anti-white bias.
Does anyone here know any actual police officers? I wouldn't characterise most of the ones I know as being remotely 'woke', although I appreciate it might not always be obvious as they tend to hide their true beliefs until you've bought them some beer.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
At £250 a night, I don't expect to have to ask. Also apparently I have to ask today to get housekeeping tomorrow....
My experience of Asia they have it right, at least when you spend reasonable amount of money. The hotels I stayed in China for £150 a night were absolutely top notch from the rooms to the service. They couldn't do enough for you and of course being Asia, no bloody tipping like the States. Even a £70 / night one at a airport in China, I had my own fully equipped appartment.
Over the years I've stayed (not often) in some impressive hotels. In the eighties I stayed in the Waldorf Astoria at $185 a night and I have stayed in the New Otani in Tokyo, but enough of that. At £152 a night for the Premier Inn at Rhyddlan, I 'd rather save my money and sleep in the car.
So much for Sir Lenny Henry claiming ‘everything premier but the price’
Hotels are expensive these days. If you want cheap it'll have to be a B&B. Premier Inn is the best mid-range hotel and is reliably better than say Leonardo and TravelLodge, but is not cheap.
Myself and two friends paid £320 a night each for our room in Budapest. Unfortunately, we were opposite the PSG hotel. You can just make out the European Cup in this image:
Which hurt more? £320 a night or seeing PSG players dancing around with the European Cup from your bedroom window.
Myself and two friends paid £320 a night each for our room in Budapest. Unfortunately, we were opposite the PSG hotel. You can just make out the European Cup in this image:
Which hurt more? £320 a night or seeing PSG players dancing around with the European Cup from your bedroom window.
Oh the latter! £320 was a bargain compared to what other places were charging.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
At £250 a night, I don't expect to have to ask. Also apparently I have to ask today to get housekeeping tomorrow....
My experience of Asia they have it right, at least when you spend reasonable amount of money. The hotels I stayed in China for £150 a night were absolutely top notch from the rooms to the service. They couldn't do enough for you and of course being Asia, no bloody tipping like the States. Even a £70 / night one at a airport in China, I had my own fully equipped appartment.
Over the years I've stayed (not often) in some impressive hotels. In the eighties I stayed in the Waldorf Astoria at $185 a night and I have stayed in the New Otani in Tokyo, but enough of that. At £152 a night for the Premier Inn at Rhyddlan, I 'd rather save my money and sleep in the car.
So much for Sir Lenny Henry claiming ‘everything premier but the price’
Hotels are expensive these days. If you want cheap it'll have to be a B&B. Premier Inn is the best mid-range hotel and is reliably better than say Leonardo and TravelLodge, but is not cheap.
I prefer Holiday Inn Express with a "free" breakfast, even if GBNews is playing in the breakfast room.
Racism against non-white people has been ingrained in society and institutions for a long time. Have attempts to address this sometimes led to overcorrective behaviour? Doubtless they have. But the idea we have created a pervasive anti-white racism that can be viewed in the same light as the problem we are trying to combat is a nonsense. All it really shows, believing that, is a lack of appreciation for the scale and nature and importance of the underlying issue - the fight for racial equality.
The pendulum has now swung too far the other way.
Martin Luther King was right, that we should see people as people and not see race everywhere.
Hardly a pendulum. That would imply a white person in England now suffers similar levels of discrimination to a black person before all this civil rights malarky kicked off. I'll do you the service of not ascribing that absurd view to you and assume you're simply expressing the admirable sentiment that skin colour should not impact how a person is treated.
That's not a logical argument.
If in the past there was strong anti-black* racism, then the pendulum of politics swung and now there is mild anti-white* racism, it's not a valid argument to say that it isn't a pendulum swing. All that argument says is that is the pendulum hasn't reached the end of the anti-white stroke yet. It's also possible for a pendulum to be stopped swinging if someone grabs hold of it!
And yes, skin colour should not alter how a person is treated one iota, hence why all the stuff discriminating in favour of minorities is so egregiously wrong.
* this isn't about skin colour anyway, it's more about cultural background.
There is still lots of anti-black racism and very little anti-white racism. Claims of anti-white racism come from the radical right in the US who are whipping up sentiment among people who object to being less racist than they used to be.
Shall I tell you the biggest hidden racism in the UK
In work progression, in life, in culture
Endemic
Thats regional accent Apartheid.
Pigeon holed by your accent and assumption of intelegence.
One if the biggest culprits and instigator were Pathe News and the BBC.
You’re not wrong there
Brummie and especially yam yam accents are somewhat looked down on
We’re thought of as being a denser version of Barry from Auf Wiedersehen Pet.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
At £250 a night, I don't expect to have to ask. Also apparently I have to ask today to get housekeeping tomorrow....
My experience of Asia they have it right, at least when you spend reasonable amount of money. The hotels I stayed in China for £150 a night were absolutely top notch from the rooms to the service. They couldn't do enough for you and of course being Asia, no bloody tipping like the States. Even a £70 / night one at a airport in China, I had my own fully equipped appartment.
Over the years I've stayed (not often) in some impressive hotels. In the eighties I stayed in the Waldorf Astoria at $185 a night and I have stayed in the New Otani in Tokyo, but enough of that. At £152 a night for the Premier Inn at Rhyddlan, I 'd rather save my money and sleep in the car.
So much for Sir Lenny Henry claiming ‘everything premier but the price’
They've been doing very well recently, which makes the lack of housekeeping even more galling.
Plenty of £25 - £75 rooms available at Travelodge if you're flexible on dates and location:
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
At £250 a night, I don't expect to have to ask. Also apparently I have to ask today to get housekeeping tomorrow....
My experience of Asia they have it right, at least when you spend reasonable amount of money. The hotels I stayed in China for £150 a night were absolutely top notch from the rooms to the service. They couldn't do enough for you and of course being Asia, no bloody tipping like the States. Even a £70 / night one at a airport in China, I had my own fully equipped appartment.
Over the years I've stayed (not often) in some impressive hotels. In the eighties I stayed in the Waldorf Astoria at $185 a night and I have stayed in the New Otani in Tokyo, but enough of that. At £152 a night for the Premier Inn at Rhyddlan, I 'd rather save my money and sleep in the car.
So much for Sir Lenny Henry claiming ‘everything premier but the price’
They've been doing very well recently, which makes the lack of housekeeping even more galling.
Plenty of £25 - £75 rooms available at Travelodge if you're flexible on dates and location:
Racism against non-white people has been ingrained in society and institutions for a long time. Have attempts to address this sometimes led to overcorrective behaviour? Doubtless they have. But the idea we have created a pervasive anti-white racism that can be viewed in the same light as the problem we are trying to combat is a nonsense. All it really shows, believing that, is a lack of appreciation for the scale and nature and importance of the underlying issue - the fight for racial equality.
The pendulum has now swung too far the other way.
Martin Luther King was right, that we should see people as people and not see race everywhere.
Hardly a pendulum. That would imply a white person in England now suffers similar levels of discrimination to a black person before all this civil rights malarky kicked off. I'll do you the service of not ascribing that absurd view to you and assume you're simply expressing the admirable sentiment that skin colour should not impact how a person is treated.
That's not a logical argument.
If in the past there was strong anti-black* racism, then the pendulum of politics swung and now there is mild anti-white* racism, it's not a valid argument to say that it isn't a pendulum swing. All that argument says is that is the pendulum hasn't reached the end of the anti-white stroke yet. It's also possible for a pendulum to be stopped swinging if someone grabs hold of it!
And yes, skin colour should not alter how a person is treated one iota, hence why all the stuff discriminating in favour of minorities is so egregiously wrong.
* this isn't about skin colour anyway, it's more about cultural background.
There is still lots of anti-black racism and very little anti-white racism. Claims of anti-white racism come from the radical right in the US who are whipping up sentiment among people who object to being less racist than they used to be.
Shall I tell you the biggest hidden racism in the UK
In work progression, in life, in culture
Endemic
Thats regional accent Apartheid.
Pigeon holed by your accent and assumption of intelegence.
One if the biggest culprits and instigator were Pathe News and the BBC.
You’re not wrong there
Brummie and especially yam yam accents are somewhat looked down on
We’re thought of as being a denser version of Barry from Auf Wiedersehen Pet.
Benny from Crossroads is the other one.
The yam yams suffer more I think.
I dunno. South Birmingham is the worst of all. I thought we all sounded like James Mason until I moved away and everyone laughed.
Racism against non-white people has been ingrained in society and institutions for a long time. Have attempts to address this sometimes led to overcorrective behaviour? Doubtless they have. But the idea we have created a pervasive anti-white racism that can be viewed in the same light as the problem we are trying to combat is a nonsense. All it really shows, believing that, is a lack of appreciation for the scale and nature and importance of the underlying issue - the fight for racial equality.
The pendulum has now swung too far the other way.
Martin Luther King was right, that we should see people as people and not see race everywhere.
Hardly a pendulum. That would imply a white person in England now suffers similar levels of discrimination to a black person before all this civil rights malarky kicked off. I'll do you the service of not ascribing that absurd view to you and assume you're simply expressing the admirable sentiment that skin colour should not impact how a person is treated.
That's not a logical argument.
If in the past there was strong anti-black* racism, then the pendulum of politics swung and now there is mild anti-white* racism, it's not a valid argument to say that it isn't a pendulum swing. All that argument says is that is the pendulum hasn't reached the end of the anti-white stroke yet. It's also possible for a pendulum to be stopped swinging if someone grabs hold of it!
And yes, skin colour should not alter how a person is treated one iota, hence why all the stuff discriminating in favour of minorities is so egregiously wrong.
* this isn't about skin colour anyway, it's more about cultural background.
There is still lots of anti-black racism and very little anti-white racism. Claims of anti-white racism come from the radical right in the US who are whipping up sentiment among people who object to being less racist than they used to be.
Shall I tell you the biggest hidden racism in the UK
In work progression, in life, in culture
Endemic
Thats regional accent Apartheid.
Pigeon holed by your accent and assumption of intelegence.
One if the biggest culprits and instigator were Pathe News and the BBC.
Class-ism is a bigger problem than racism in the UK. And the Right seems to be importing the US trick of blaming minorities for the ills of the white working class. And why wouldn't they? It seems to work there. Divide and rule, the oldest trick in the book. Forget about solving the problem if you mis-diagnose its cause.
Randomly saw Sir John Curtice in my office reception so asked about Makerfield. He said absolutely no idea. Very honest. I replied if he’s got no idea then no-one does.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
At £250 a night, I don't expect to have to ask. Also apparently I have to ask today to get housekeeping tomorrow....
My experience of Asia they have it right, at least when you spend reasonable amount of money. The hotels I stayed in China for £150 a night were absolutely top notch from the rooms to the service. They couldn't do enough for you and of course being Asia, no bloody tipping like the States. Even a £70 / night one at a airport in China, I had my own fully equipped appartment.
Over the years I've stayed (not often) in some impressive hotels. In the eighties I stayed in the Waldorf Astoria at $185 a night and I have stayed in the New Otani in Tokyo, but enough of that. At £152 a night for the Premier Inn at Rhyddlan, I 'd rather save my money and sleep in the car.
So much for Sir Lenny Henry claiming ‘everything premier but the price’
They've been doing very well recently, which makes the lack of housekeeping even more galling.
Plenty of £25 - £75 rooms available at Travelodge if you're flexible on dates and location:
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
At £250 a night, I don't expect to have to ask. Also apparently I have to ask today to get housekeeping tomorrow....
My experience of Asia they have it right, at least when you spend reasonable amount of money. The hotels I stayed in China for £150 a night were absolutely top notch from the rooms to the service. They couldn't do enough for you and of course being Asia, no bloody tipping like the States. Even a £70 / night one at a airport in China, I had my own fully equipped appartment.
Over the years I've stayed (not often) in some impressive hotels. In the eighties I stayed in the Waldorf Astoria at $185 a night and I have stayed in the New Otani in Tokyo, but enough of that. At £152 a night for the Premier Inn at Rhyddlan, I 'd rather save my money and sleep in the car.
So much for Sir Lenny Henry claiming ‘everything premier but the price’
Hotels are expensive these days. If you want cheap it'll have to be a B&B. Premier Inn is the best mid-range hotel and is reliably better than say Leonardo and TravelLodge, but is not cheap.
I prefer Holiday Inn Express with a "free" breakfast, even if GBNews is playing in the breakfast room.
That sounds like the modern equivalent of enhanced interrogation techniques so beloved by the US.
Tony @TonyB_1997 · 4h I would have assumed you would celebrate white eggs getting prioritised over brown.
Brown eggs banned in store's tells you everything you need to know about Tice. A shocking rogue apostrophe. Not fit for public office. (And yes, that's in his Tweet).
In all the hysteria and the Sainsbury's spin on carbon footprint is being missed the real motive. The eggs have a lower carbon footprint because the hens need less feed... White eggs are cheaper to produce that's why Sainsburys are selling white eggs.
It's like when a hotel has a notice saying they're not going to wash your towels during your stay because of the climate...
I am currently in a hotel where not only no change of towels, "to save the planet" they don't even come and clean your room during your stay unless you request it, and its costing me a mere £250 a night and in this hotel for a week....absolute piss take.
In many hotels, especially cheap ones, asking for housekeeping at the desk is now a standard post-breakfast task to remember now.
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
At £250 a night, I don't expect to have to ask. Also apparently I have to ask today to get housekeeping tomorrow....
My experience of Asia they have it right, at least when you spend reasonable amount of money. The hotels I stayed in China for £150 a night were absolutely top notch from the rooms to the service. They couldn't do enough for you and of course being Asia, no bloody tipping like the States. Even a £70 / night one at a airport in China, I had my own fully equipped appartment.
Over the years I've stayed (not often) in some impressive hotels. In the eighties I stayed in the Waldorf Astoria at $185 a night and I have stayed in the New Otani in Tokyo, but enough of that. At £152 a night for the Premier Inn at Rhyddlan, I 'd rather save my money and sleep in the car.
So much for Sir Lenny Henry claiming ‘everything premier but the price’
They've been doing very well recently, which makes the lack of housekeeping even more galling.
Plenty of £25 - £75 rooms available at Travelodge if you're flexible on dates and location:
Was it 25 for pitching up in someone elses room and £75 for your own?
£74 at Travelodge on Rhyl Seafront on Tuesday. I have had it as cheap as £50 by booking early. I haven't seen 25 quid since the Major Government was in power. 33 quid a night in Halesowen about 15 years ago. When the company bis paying I am more selective, and I wouldn't chose Travelodge.
Andrei Bezrukov, a political analyst and adviser to Rosneft CEO Igor Sechin, said at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum that Russia should prepare for a prolonged war lasting "the next two decades."
"We need to learn to live with this war. This doesn't mean we have to stop everything and cease developing the economy," said Bezrukov, a retired colonel in Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service.
"On the contrary — we need to build our state system and economy in such a way that it fulfils not only the task of development, but also the task of defense."
You only have to prepare for a war lasting decades if you cannot win it in years, let alone months or days. I take this as a sign of Russia adjusting to the reality of not being able to win the war against Ukraine. Once they accept that they can't win, it surely won't be long until they realise that the longer the war goes on the worse things get for them, and then they will be eager to agree to a ceasefire on the current front line.
But will Putin be able to admit to the failure of his war?
The Ukrainians have absolutely no incentive to freeze the lines in their current positions. It seems they currently have fire control over the roads that supply Crimea & the western part of the Ukrainian land that Russia holds - if they can maintain that, then a collapse of the front in the west is entirely possible. Why would they freeze the front now?
The enemy always gets a say of course & it’s entirely possible that Russia will find a way to adapt & reinforce Crimea & the west but right now the advantage appears to lie with Ukraine.
Comments
(And yes, that's in his Tweet).
Surely as they are symbolic and shouldn’t be used as a weapon in the UK there could be no objection to them having to be non-bladed/pointed and then totally safe to carry as a symbolic object.
Christians who are so inclined to demonstrate their beliefs through objects don’t literally carry around a wooden crucifix with a body nailed on, Jews funnily enough don’t lug around and actual star and Muslims aren’t packing a crescent moon in their pockets.
BBC News - Vickrum Digwa, dad and brother in court on weapon charges - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyp33pp0lvo?app-referrer=deep-link
This should hopefully make it clear that the only weapon allowed is a sheathed kirpan (or a folding knife of blade 3" or less).
It is worth noting there is no case in the UK of a Kirpan being ever used as a murder weapon, including in the Novak case.
If in the past there was strong anti-black* racism, then the pendulum of politics swung and now there is mild anti-white* racism, it's not a valid argument to say that it isn't a pendulum swing. All that argument says is that is the pendulum hasn't reached the end of the anti-white stroke yet. It's also possible for a pendulum to be stopped swinging if someone grabs hold of it!
And yes, skin colour should not alter how a person is treated one iota, hence why all the stuff discriminating in favour of minorities is so egregiously wrong.
* this isn't about skin colour anyway, it's more about cultural background.
Another consequence of those lies is that the attending police officers honestly believed that there were reasonable grounds for suspecting Henry had committed an offence and arrested him with the consequence he was handcuffed for about a minute before his condition further deteriorated and the arresting officer began CPR. The police were given a convincing but wholly false narrative of the incident. It was dark and Henry was wearing a dark top. The entry damage caused by the knife through it, would not have been obvious. Whilst there was visible blood on Henry, it would not have clearly been seen coming from that wound and the clearly visible facial wound was not life-threatening. Henry was complaining that he had been stabbed and was struggling to breathe but that would not have necessarily told the officers how serious the situation had become. It is the experience of the criminal courts that sometimes, someone arrested and handcuffed will feign injury in the hope they may be released. These police officers were faced with having to make quick decisions in pressurised circumstances about the best way to act. The genuine shock to the particular police officer, when he realised that he had been giving CPR to Henry when he had a serious chest wound tends to show that he was doing his best in a very difficult situation.
You might assert the judge was a gullible fool but it is his job to assess this stuff.
I am genuinely unsure of your narrative over the last few days. Having twice called me a racist, I am unsure what constitutes a racist anymore.
As for you, your entire narrative is "How dare this brown chap [that would be me] disagree with my DEI-tinged view of this incident!".
Ergo, you are a racist. Counter-intuitive, but true.
‘I don’t think you have mate’.
That’s shocking and you cannot just blame training or the system for such a lack of empathy.
I think I have been perfectly polite to you. At no point have I defended this evil murderer. I have, on the other hand called out Farage for a despicable whipping up and hijacking of a tragic case of murder.
You need to flag racists to get them off this platform.
https://www.aaihs.org/critical-race-theory-and-the-misappropriating-of-martin-luther-king-jr/
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-01-17/critical-race-theory-martin-luther-king
https://www.centerforbiblicalunity.com/post/was-martin-luther-king-jr-a-critical-race-theorist-part-1
https://www.thenation.com/article/society/martin-luther-king-crt/
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Digwa-Final-Sentencing-Remarks.pdf
You will be ProtectServed.
I bet these rascals even claim men are the victims of sexism too. The rotters
Coming back to a clean room after being out all day on holiday is one of life's little pleasures.
Started during covid, then was laundered into "staff shortages". Now just expected.
Try the fish.
Say will watch the trees' progress with interest.
My experience of Asia they have it right, at least when you spend reasonable amount of money. The hotels I stayed in China for £150 a night were absolutely top notch from the rooms to the service. They couldn't do enough for you and of course being Asia, no bloody tipping like the States. Even a £70 / night one at a airport in China, I had my own fully equipped appartment.
Mosque was built but Japanese authorities say it goes against planning rules.
One Japanese hotel I was in last year had "reduced cleaning" as an upfront reduced cost tariff option when you booked.
I was sure Donald Trump would never post anything about pride month. And then he posted this!
Clearly, I was wrong!
https://x.com/DougWahl1/status/2062320929108373534
So I guess the question is whether you would choose to pay a higher price for the room in order to have a lot of cleaning done that almost half of the guests do not want?
The market solution would be for the hotel to offer an "included cleaning every day" service at a price of £255 per night, since it is clearly a service that a lot of people do not want.
Personally I like it if I am in a hotel for say a week, as it is more efficient, and I like efficiency.
In work progression, in life, in culture
Endemic
Thats regional accent Apartheid.
Pigeon holed by your accent and assumption of intelegence.
One if the biggest culprits and instigator were Pathe News and the BBC.
This is the bit with the chap walking around an English woods whilst the app identifies birds it hears singing:
https://youtu.be/dIPVanif3J8?t=173
https://x.com/espncricinfo/status/2062530091046081002?s=61
https://x.com/espncricinfo/status/2062530091046081002?s=61
Brummie and especially yam yam accents are somewhat looked down on
We’re thought of as being a denser version of Barry from Auf Wiedersehen Pet.
Think I'll concentrate on the Monaco GP this weekend.
"We need to learn to live with this war. This doesn't mean we have to stop everything and cease developing the economy," said Bezrukov, a retired colonel in Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service.
"On the contrary — we need to build our state system and economy in such a way that it fulfils not only the task of development, but also the task of defense."
You only have to prepare for a war lasting decades if you cannot win it in years, let alone months or days. I take this as a sign of Russia adjusting to the reality of not being able to win the war against Ukraine. Once they accept that they can't win, it surely won't be long until they realise that the longer the war goes on the worse things get for them, and then they will be eager to agree to a ceasefire on the current front line.
But will Putin be able to admit to the failure of his war?
Let me ask you a question Mike- if I’m telling you I smoked crack, why in the world would I lie about snorting it? There’s plenty of pictures of me smoking crack doing all sorts of stupid things, with all sorts of people and rarely with clothes on. But not snorting cocaine.
https://x.com/HunterBiden/status/2062248661740814712
"The entitled moaning in my inbox has certainly stayed the same, even if the manner of England’s struggles with the bat today bear almost no resemblance to what happened in Australia."
I have sympathy with the point of view, but thought that they might be able to find a less aggressive way of stating it.
Does anyone here know any actual police officers? I wouldn't characterise most of the ones I know as being remotely 'woke', although I appreciate it might not always be obvious as they tend to hide their true beliefs until you've bought them some beer.
The yam yams suffer more I think.
Plenty of £25 - £75 rooms available at Travelodge if you're flexible on dates and location:
https://pricefinder.travelodge.co.uk/
Randomly saw Sir John Curtice in my office reception so asked about Makerfield. He said absolutely no idea. Very honest. I replied if he’s got no idea then no-one does.
Newcastle Central this Sunday, £12.50 each for two sharing.
The enemy always gets a say of course & it’s entirely possible that Russia will find a way to adapt & reinforce Crimea & the west but right now the advantage appears to lie with Ukraine.