Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
You are allowed to pray outside an abortion clinic. Many women pray they won't be heckled by protestors.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators...
... to do what, exactly ?
The purpose of the restriction outside abortion clinics is entirely clear, and has nothing to do with banning a particular religion.
What comparable law are you proposing ?
That the (Fuck)wits of Refrom, if they have a majority in parliament will pass any number of laws banning stuff they don't like. Using primary legislation to strike down everything in their way.
“Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”
Ironically, the real Tom Moore broke the law, with abandon, in pursuit of heretics....
Hmmm...his methods were harsh, but they were generally supported by the Suppression of Heresy Act 1400 ('De Heretico Comburendo') and the Suppression of Heresy Act 1414 , which authorised the pursuit and execution of those deemed to be holding opposing religious beliefs. Specifically they "...be burnt, that such punishment may strike fear into the minds of others" . What he did was lawful under the law of the land as it was. Although not morally correct by any means.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
As pointed out, previously, we have bans on performative prayer by Christians (of a sort) outside abortion clinics.
So we have an operational precedent for the Process State types to create a process for (morality not included)
I find no difficulty in imagining that Chief Konstable Sir Ronald "Els" Savage of the Met (OBE, DIpSHIt) would pause only to request that the cleaner polish his awards for Muslim Community Relations before sending out the modern version of the TSG to hit @TheScreamingEagles for wearing a loud shoes in built up area.
So, what is the legal wording here? HYUFD seems to be implying, in his "As pointed out" sentence that the Abortion Clinic prayer limitations are specific to Christian prayer? The specific use of Christian in that sentence suggests that Muslim or Jewish prayer (for the unborn) outside an abortion clinic would be fine and dandy.
I suspect that is not the case, but am just checking.
It's not even specific to prayer, which is why I asked william how he proposed it might be used as a precedent by the sectarians in Reform and on the Tory right.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/15/section/9 Offence of interference with access to or provision of abortion services (1)It is an offence for a person who is within a safe access zone to do an act with the intent of, or reckless as to whether it has the effect of—
(a)influencing any person’s decision to access, provide or facilitate the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic,
(b)obstructing or impeding any person accessing, providing, or facilitating the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic, or
(c)causing harassment, alarm or distress to any person in connection with a decision to access, provide, or facilitate the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic,
where the person mentioned in paragraph (a), (b) or (c) is within the safe access zone for the abortion clinic.
I am increasingly confident that he won't be, no matter how bad they are. The alternatives are worse and the Cabinet would be nervous about their jobs under a new leader as they were during the Burnham rumblings.
As I understand it the cabinet do not decide it.
A rival has to stand with the support of 20% of the PLP, which is 81 MPs I think, then Starmer decides whether to contest the challenge (nominations are not needed), then the rivals need 5% of CLPs to support and a number of affiliates.
I expect that challenge in May.
A leadership contest im midst of an international crisis is not unprecedented. We had one in May 1940 after all.
I agree that the Cabinet do not decide it but the fact that they all backed Starmer's blocking of Burnham was decisive. It would be daunting to take on not just the leader but the entire cabinet. I suspect if this is repeated getting the 81 will prove difficult.
The last 2 weeks will have helped him remain in post, but I'm no longer bullish over Starmers long term survival chances.
How many more defeats will Labour be able to take after the inevitable skelping in May? They haven't led a UK opinion poll for almost a year, and are now finding it tough competing for second with the Tories and Greens. That's no good when they are fighting big elections in Wales and Scotland in 7 weeks.
I cant see Anas and Jackie Baillie etc putting up and shutting up - Slab have more than 30 MPs, they should be more competitive than this.
Once they start losing more councillors, and party activists are tempted by what the Greens offer, MPs will feel more nervous about their own jobs.
We could have a situation similar to what Corbyn faced in 2016, where the challenger is easily faced down, I think that is more likely than no challenge at all. If someone in the upper reaches of the party doesn't grasp the issue in May, we are then looking at conference season for a challenge, and so it drags on.
It is very hard to regain support once a PMs ratings go very negative. The saving grace for SKS is he is up against an outfit who haven't governed nationally, and Lab MPs tend to be spineless when it comes to leadership challenges.
Eventually the dam will break and we will see a challenge, its not a straight Tory/Lab fight any more, and I think activists will be aware they are firefighting various parties on many fronts
Labour are indeed going to receive an absolute "skelping" in May as you put it, and I think it is going to be even worse than anticipated. Remind yourself that many in Labour convinced themselves that they had hopes of retaining Gorton/Denton only to lose badly. Labour have been 3rd or 4th in every one of the last 5 opinion polls and generally do even worse at local elections than they do at general elections.
Virtually the entire PLP never mind just 20% are then going to be in shock and justly concerned for the future of their seats unless something changes. There is no need for Labour to be stuck with a leader for whom the vast majority of public have feelings ranging from disdain to contempt, and there will be no change without the leader changing.
And despite the mantra that Labour doesn't sack it's leaders, the relevant precedent is that from 2016, namely that MPs are willing to initiate a leadership contest when push comes to shove. Corbyn only survived then because of the membership, not the PLP. And Starmer won't win a members ballot, once a contest is triggered he'd be well advised to step down then with some dignity.
For me the only question now is whether a contest is initiated in May or a month or two later, but I think it's going to be May. Starmer is so dire that whoever wields the knife is I think going to receive credit for doing so, for many will be grateful for the chance of a reset. Rayner may still be tempted to hold off but she knows the other contenders will go for it so she will probably decide it's best to try to be first in the queue just like the rest.
Despite falling back, Reform remains 8 - 9% ahead of Labour, whose vote share is down 20% on Spring 2022. The Conservatives are down about 12%. It’s hard to see the results as anything but terrible for both parties.
True. But i'd point out Reform won a lot of very close races in 2025 on 30% NEV and in the ascendancy. This time theyll be (i think) much closer to 25% NEV and on the decline. I expect them to be on the wrong side of a number of close races. Whilst obviously having a good 'net' night. How they do in the 78 seats they are defending will be instructive
The thing is, last Spring, most polls were putting Labour narrowly ahead, in the mid 20’s. Now, the party is averaging 18%. The governing party almost always underperforms its poll rating, in local elections.
The Tories are also down on last Spring.
Time will tell. But i think what we are disagreeing on 'how good' and 'how bad' the respective nights will be. Reform will not look as dominant and all conquering aa May 25, of that i am 100% confident.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
As pointed out, previously, we have bans on performative prayer by Christians (of a sort) outside abortion clinics.
So we have an operational precedent for the Process State types to create a process for (morality not included)
I find no difficulty in imagining that Chief Konstable Sir Ronald "Els" Savage of the Met (OBE, DIpSHIt) would pause only to request that the cleaner polish his awards for Muslim Community Relations before sending out the modern version of the TSG to hit @TheScreamingEagles for wearing a loud shoes in built up area.
So, what is the legal wording here? HYUFD seems to be implying, in his "As pointed out" sentence that the Abortion Clinic prayer limitations are specific to Christian prayer? The specific use of Christian in that sentence suggests that Muslim or Jewish prayer (for the unborn) outside an abortion clinic would be fine and dandy.
I suspect that is not the case, but am just checking.
The wording of the law "banning prayer" actually creates a "safe zone" within which certain activities that would be normally legal are banned.
these are
- Influences any person’s decision to access, provide, or facilitate the provision of abortion services; - Obstructs or Impedes any person accessing, providing or facilitating the provision of abortion services; - Causes harassment, alarm or distress to any person in connection with a decision to access, provision or facilitate the provision of abortion services.
definitions in the guidelines include
"The law does not contain a specific list of behaviour which is banned, but is instead focused on its impact. This may include, but is not limited to:
- Handing out of leaflets with information related to abortion - Display of abortion-related posters, graphic or otherwise - Distribution of rosary beads or ‘miraculous medals’ - Use of microphones or loudspeakers linked to abortion provision or access - Filming of clinic users, staff, or the clinic itself - Prayer (including silent prayer) or singing outside the clinic entrance - Leaving literature related to abortion outside or inside a clinic site - Prolonged presence observing the clinic and its users.
As a rule of thumb – if a staff member or a patient feels they are being influenced or harassed about their decision to access or provide abortion, a crime may have been committed."
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
As pointed out, previously, we have bans on performative prayer by Christians (of a sort) outside abortion clinics.
So we have an operational precedent for the Process State types to create a process for (morality not included)
I find no difficulty in imagining that Chief Konstable Sir Ronald "Els" Savage of the Met (OBE, DIpSHIt) would pause only to request that the cleaner polish his awards for Muslim Community Relations before sending out the modern version of the TSG to hit @TheScreamingEagles for wearing a loud shoes in built up area.
So, what is the legal wording here? HYUFD seems to be implying, in his "As pointed out" sentence that the Abortion Clinic prayer limitations are specific to Christian prayer? The specific use of Christian in that sentence suggests that Muslim or Jewish prayer (for the unborn) outside an abortion clinic would be fine and dandy.
I suspect that is not the case, but am just checking.
2.1 The offence applies to any activity that is done with the intent of, or reckless as to whether it has the effect of:
(a) influencing a person’s decision to access, provide or facilitate the provision of abortion services;
(b) obstructing or impeding someone’s access to, or provision or facilitation of services at, an abortion clinic; or
(c) causing harassment, alarm or distress to anyone in connection with a decision to access, provide or facilitate the provision of services at the abortion clinic.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators...
... to do what, exactly ?
The purpose of the restriction outside abortion clinics is entirely clear, and has nothing to do with banning a particular religion.
What comparable law are you proposing ?
That the (Fuck)wits of Refrom, if they have a majority in parliament will pass any number of laws banning stuff they don't like. Using primary legislation to strike down everything in their way.
“Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”
Ironically, the real Tom Moore broke the law, with abandon, in pursuit of heretics....
Hmmm...his methods were harsh, but they were generally supported by the Suppression of Heresy Act 1400 ('De Heretico Comburendo') and the Suppression of Heresy Act 1414 , which authorised the pursuit and execution of those deemed to be holding opposing religious beliefs. Specifically they "...be burnt, that such punishment may strike fear into the minds of others" . What he did was lawful under the law of the land as it was. Although not morally correct by any means.
I imagine that his use of private torture would have contravened the law as it then stood. Didn’t the use of torture require the sanction of the Privy Council?
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
Yeah, but so far it’s only the Christians demanding that they be allowed to pray in womens’ faces.
Trump is studying plans to occupy or lay siege to Iran’s oil facility Kharg Island in an attempt to pressure the regime to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, Axios reports.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
Wikipedia says...
In the 47 countries of the world with Muslim-majority populations, access to abortion varies greatly. In many, abortion is allowed when the mother's life is at risk.[6] In 18 countries, including Iraq, Egypt, and Indonesia, this is the only circumstance where abortion is permitted. In another ten countries, it is allowed on request. Mauritania, however, prohibits abortion under any circumstance.[7] In others,[which?] abortion is permitted under certain circumstances besides preserving the mother's life, such as safeguarding her mental health, cases of fetal impairment, incest or rape, and social or economic reasons.
So, you're wrong. Most Muslim majority nations have more liberal abortion laws than that.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators...
... to do what, exactly ?
The purpose of the restriction outside abortion clinics is entirely clear, and has nothing to do with banning a particular religion.
What comparable law are you proposing ?
That the (Fuck)wits of Refrom, if they have a majority in parliament will pass any number of laws banning stuff they don't like. Using primary legislation to strike down everything in their way.
“Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”
Ironically, the real Tom Moore broke the law, with abandon, in pursuit of heretics....
Hmmm...his methods were harsh, but they were generally supported by the Suppression of Heresy Act 1400 ('De Heretico Comburendo') and the Suppression of Heresy Act 1414 , which authorised the pursuit and execution of those deemed to be holding opposing religious beliefs. Specifically they "...be burnt, that such punishment may strike fear into the minds of others" . What he did was lawful under the law of the land as it was. Although not morally correct by any means.
I imagine that his use of private torture would have contravened the law as it then stood.
Also locking someone in your cellar, because they got found innocent by a jury of a crime and you find that really annoying was illegal at the time.
Trump is studying plans to occupy or lay siege to Iran’s oil facility Kharg Island in an attempt to pressure the regime to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, Axios reports.
"studying" ... as if
This is what gets to me
Trump cannot have a clue on the use of his military, so it must be the case that it is his military who are just hopeless at gamimg this war
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
Yeah, but so far it’s only the Christians demanding that they be allowed to pray in womens’ faces.
The law doesn't even mention religion.
That is how it works in a liberal democracy. We don't outlaw religions; we outlaw doing stuff to harm others, and if religion is claimed as justification for doing that stuff, then we make it clear that is no justification.
Yet again, this was the guidance published during the consultation over this particular law:
It is unacceptable for anyone to be harassed or distressed simply for exercising their legal right to access abortion services. The Government has always expected the police and local authorities to use their powers to deal with those who break the law.
The rights to gather, to express views and to manifest religious beliefs are a cornerstone of democracy in Britain and people should be free to gather and express their views, however uncomfortable they are to others, providing they do so within the law.
To be clear, this legislation only affects certain activities within 150 metres of a clinic or hospital. Not all protests are banned and neither does this amount to criminalising those who hold pro-life views who are in a Safe Access Zone. It does not affect people’s rights to gather or to express their views about abortion or to manifest their religious beliefs about abortion anywhere else.
It is vitally important that law enforcement agencies recognise the rights of both of those accessing or providing abortion services and protestors and, in enforcement, seek to balance their respective rights...
Seeking to specifically ban a particular religion from public prayer isn't even vaguely comparable to what section 9 of the Public Order Act does.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
As pointed out, previously, we have bans on performative prayer by Christians (of a sort) outside abortion clinics.
So we have an operational precedent for the Process State types to create a process for (morality not included)
I find no difficulty in imagining that Chief Konstable Sir Ronald "Els" Savage of the Met (OBE, DIpSHIt) would pause only to request that the cleaner polish his awards for Muslim Community Relations before sending out the modern version of the TSG to hit @TheScreamingEagles for wearing a loud shoes in built up area.
So, what is the legal wording here? HYUFD seems to be implying, in his "As pointed out" sentence that the Abortion Clinic prayer limitations are specific to Christian prayer? The specific use of Christian in that sentence suggests that Muslim or Jewish prayer (for the unborn) outside an abortion clinic would be fine and dandy.
I suspect that is not the case, but am just checking.
I haven't look deeply at this but the relevant law is, I think, section 9 of the Public Order Act 2023. Which does not mention prayer. what, I think, is happening, is verbal equivocation, in which what one group describes as 'prayer' or 'silent prayer' is regarded by another group - who mostly have the current law on their side - as a particular form of act with a particular sort of effect in a place where it is illegal to do so. Rational resolution of the difference is of course impossible, which is why law has to make decisions, including ones I think are crazy, and why hard cases make bad law.
As Frege interestingly pointed out, the Morning Star and the Evening Star are different terms meaning different things in our observation and experience. But as it happens they are in fact the same object, which is a shock when you first realise it.
(In just the same way what one group says is criminal damage to defence installations, another group says is helpful and lawful compliance with international and domestic law outlawing particular forms of military action.)
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
Yeah, but so far it’s only the Christians demanding that they be allowed to pray in womens’ faces.
The law doesn't even mention religion.
That is how it works in a liberal democracy. We don't outlaw religions; we outlaw doing stuff to harm others, and if religion is claimed as justification for doing that stuff, then we make it clear that is no justification.
Yet again, this was the guidance published during the consultation over this particular law:
It is unacceptable for anyone to be harassed or distressed simply for exercising their legal right to access abortion services. The Government has always expected the police and local authorities to use their powers to deal with those who break the law.
The rights to gather, to express views and to manifest religious beliefs are a cornerstone of democracy in Britain and people should be free to gather and express their views, however uncomfortable they are to others, providing they do so within the law.
To be clear, this legislation only affects certain activities within 150 metres of a clinic or hospital. Not all protests are banned and neither does this amount to criminalising those who hold pro-life views who are in a Safe Access Zone. It does not affect people’s rights to gather or to express their views about abortion or to manifest their religious beliefs about abortion anywhere else.
It is vitally important that law enforcement agencies recognise the rights of both of those accessing or providing abortion services and protestors and, in enforcement, seek to balance their respective rights...
Seeking to specifically ban a particular religion from public prayer isn't even vaguely comparable to what section 9 of the Public Order Act does.
So, using the precedent, the Reform (fuck)wits declare that people feel intimidated by certain kinds of prayer in public.
I think when the law above was passed, some people mentioned that banning things, on the basis that people felt offended by them, had a risk.
That some people are genuinely offended by things that shouldn't be banned.
Quite the lede from The Economist: and quite the cover.
“Although President Donald Trump says he has “destroyed 100% of Iran’s Military Capability”, the 0% that remains is playing havoc with the global economy.” And now quite the cover: @glcarlstrom
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
The balance of rights between mother and unborn child is absolutely fine to debate in a sober and rational way. Bringing unreachable deities whose views we claim to know into the debate is unhelpful.
This allows me to trot out one of my vasectomy stories. As my wife drove me away from the clinic, in loose fitting trousers, feeling distinctly sorry for myself, a large bunch of angry middle aged Christians started shouting abuse at her (it was a beautiful Spring day and the windows were down. I was momentarily puzzled, then furious. Clearly they were under the impression we'd been for an abortion. Despite my incapacity, I was quite clean to get out the car and kick off. First, to correct them, second and more importantly - how fucking dare some Christian talk to my wife like that - I may have been sore but I am quite a large bloke and have never felt it more urgent to dish out violent retribution to these ponces or at the very least tell them how little I cared for the views of their imaginary sky fairy. Thirdly - check what's going on in there before protesting so rudely you fucking idiots. And fourthly (this overlapped with secondly, on reflection) - if we had just had an abortion, it was a decision we would have come to soberly and sadly and for some good reason and it was no business of their imaginary friend.
Happily for all concerned, it took me a while to get past puzzle and shock, and my wife is less keen to seek trouble than I am, and by the time all this aligned in my head we were at least a mile away.
We wouldn’t want to stop individuals praying but mass prayer is banned in many Muslim countries in the Middle East itself. So, yes, we have to stop this kind of mass demonstration, provocative demonstration, in historic British sites.
Nigel is using states in the Middle East as a model for limiting British freedoms. This guy is dangerous.
Ouch.
Isn't democracy banned in many Muslim countries? 🤔
Quite the lede from The Economist: and quite the cover.
“Although President Donald Trump says he has “destroyed 100% of Iran’s Military Capability”, the 0% that remains is playing havoc with the global economy.” And now quite the cover: @glcarlstrom
Trump is studying plans to occupy or lay siege to Iran’s oil facility Kharg Island in an attempt to pressure the regime to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, Axios reports.
"studying" ... as if
This is what gets to me
Trump cannot have a clue on the use of his military, so it must be the case that it is his military who are just hopeless at gamimg this war
Alternatively, they are happily dropping him in the shit.
Proving that, if Reform forms the next government, we don't have a prayer
Reform will protect Christian values by banning their public expression because of their Law of Unintended Consequences stemming from every twatterance from Farages gob
Personally, I'd be more than happy if Reform's crackdown on weird non-Christian religiosity took weird Christian religiosity down with it. First target: hymns in primary school assemblies.
Yes. When I was in primary school we sang wicked, sociopathic, weird, evil and dangerous words in hymns. They wrecked my life. An example was:
Splendours three, from God proceeding, May we ever love them true, Goodness, Truth, and Beauty heeding Ev'ry day, in all we do.
Truth never changes, And Beauty's her dress, And Good never changes, Which those two express.
When I first encountered Keats's 'Ode on a Grecian Urn' it helped me understand just what an evil man he was too, to think so well of beauty and truth. I have never recovered. These evils must never be visited on our vulnerable children.
Well, two things: One, I don't know if you've recently been in a primary school assembly, but most hymns there are significantly crappier than that. And two, no matter how well-crafted the hymn - and I will concede that a rare few are excellent examples of poetry and music - it's still weird to force children to communally sing a song of praise and devotion to a figure most of them don't believe in.
If you don't like Muslims vote Reform If you don't like MUSLIMS vote Reform If you don't like Muslims, don't like Muslims, if you don't like Muslims vote Reform
Lukashenko says Minsk is preparing a "big deal" with Washington that goes beyond prisoner releases. Reopening the US embassy in Minsk and nuclear materials are also on the agenda.
Trump is studying plans to occupy or lay siege to Iran’s oil facility Kharg Island in an attempt to pressure the regime to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, Axios reports.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
The balance of rights between mother and unborn child is absolutely fine to debate in a sober and rational way. Bringing unreachable deities whose views we claim to know into the debate is unhelpful.
This allows me to trot out one of my vasectomy stories. As my wife drove me away from the clinic, in loose fitting trousers, feeling distinctly sorry for myself, a large bunch of angry middle aged Christians started shouting abuse at her (it was a beautiful Spring day and the windows were down. I was momentarily puzzled, then furious. Clearly they were under the impression we'd been for an abortion. Despite my incapacity, I was quite clean to get out the car and kick off. First, to correct them, second and more importantly - how fucking dare some Christian talk to my wife like that - I may have been sore but I am quite a large bloke and have never felt it more urgent to dish out violent retribution to these ponces or at the very least tell them how little I cared for the views of their imaginary sky fairy. Thirdly - check what's going on in there before protesting so rudely you fucking idiots. And fourthly (this overlapped with secondly, on reflection) - if we had just had an abortion, it was a decision we would have come to soberly and sadly and for some good reason and it was no business of their imaginary friend.
Happily for all concerned, it took me a while to get past puzzle and shock, and my wife is less keen to seek trouble than I am, and by the time all this aligned in my head we were at least a mile away.
The 'unreachable deities' point slightly misses the heart of the matter. Whether ethics is subjective or objective is not a knowable item. There are insurmountable problems with both positions. But objectivists include lots of people who don't invoke the gods. Lots of atheists think that torturing children for fun is not only wrong, but still wrong even if everyone thought it was right. Kant invokes no gods in drawing that sort of objective conclusion.
Whether or not there is a god - another unknowable item - for lots of people the gods is where they ground the idea of objectivity. I am among them.
Hume, who believed none of this, is Trump's representative. 'I will feel it in my bones'. As Hume says, though he is wrong "Tis not unreasonable for me to prefer the destruction of the whole world to the scratching of my finger.”
Quite the lede from The Economist: and quite the cover.
“Although President Donald Trump says he has “destroyed 100% of Iran’s Military Capability”, the 0% that remains is playing havoc with the global economy.” And now quite the cover: @glcarlstrom
Pity its the same week that Zanny Minton-Beddoes chooses to give another neo-fascist shit a platform... previously the loathsome Bannon, now the loathsome and batshit Tucker Carlson
If you don't like Muslims vote Reform If you don't like MUSLIMS vote Reform If you don't like Muslims, don't like Muslims, if you don't like Muslims vote Reform
If you don't like Muslims vote Reform If you don't like MUSLIMS vote Reform If you don't like Muslims, don't like Muslims, if you don't like Muslims vote Reform
This is the song Farage is singing.
Politically its seems very stupid, those that don't already are voting Reform. But the flip side those Reform curious by factor of think Labour and Tory are crap but not big Tommy Ten Names fans, not going to help.
Lukashenko says Minsk is preparing a "big deal" with Washington that goes beyond prisoner releases. Reopening the US embassy in Minsk and nuclear materials are also on the agenda.
That's the kind of thinking that opens doors. And windows.
Trump is studying plans to occupy or lay siege to Iran’s oil facility Kharg Island in an attempt to pressure the regime to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, Axios reports.
"studying" ... as if
This is what gets to me
Trump cannot have a clue on the use of his military, so it must be the case that it is his military who are just hopeless at gamimg this war
He's become childishly enamoured with it all. Hard to think of a less suitable person to be in charge of the world's most powerful military.
Proving that, if Reform forms the next government, we don't have a prayer
Reform will protect Christian values by banning their public expression because of their Law of Unintended Consequences stemming from every twatterance from Farages gob
Personally, I'd be more than happy if Reform's crackdown on weird non-Christian religiosity took weird Christian religiosity down with it. First target: hymns in primary school assemblies.
Yes. When I was in primary school we sang wicked, sociopathic, weird, evil and dangerous words in hymns. They wrecked my life. An example was:
Splendours three, from God proceeding, May we ever love them true, Goodness, Truth, and Beauty heeding Ev'ry day, in all we do.
Truth never changes, And Beauty's her dress, And Good never changes, Which those two express.
When I first encountered Keats's 'Ode on a Grecian Urn' it helped me understand just what an evil man he was too, to think so well of beauty and truth. I have never recovered. These evils must never be visited on our vulnerable children.
Well, two things: One, I don't know if you've recently been in a primary school assembly, but most hymns there are significantly crappier than that. And two, no matter how well-crafted the hymn - and I will concede that a rare few are excellent examples of poetry and music - it's still weird to force children to communally sing a song of praise and devotion to a figure most of them don't believe in.
I have lived 35 years in rural and small town Cumbria, among a multitude and generations of small children. Their spirituality is largely different from that which you describe, even if the songs are a bit naff. I have been here so long I can't speak for anywhere else.
If you don't like Muslims vote Reform If you don't like MUSLIMS vote Reform If you don't like Muslims, don't like Muslims, if you don't like Muslims vote Reform
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
The balance of rights between mother and unborn child is absolutely fine to debate in a sober and rational way. Bringing unreachable deities whose views we claim to know into the debate is unhelpful.
This allows me to trot out one of my vasectomy stories. As my wife drove me away from the clinic, in loose fitting trousers, feeling distinctly sorry for myself, a large bunch of angry middle aged Christians started shouting abuse at her (it was a beautiful Spring day and the windows were down. I was momentarily puzzled, then furious. Clearly they were under the impression we'd been for an abortion. Despite my incapacity, I was quite clean to get out the car and kick off. First, to correct them, second and more importantly - how fucking dare some Christian talk to my wife like that - I may have been sore but I am quite a large bloke and have never felt it more urgent to dish out violent retribution to these ponces or at the very least tell them how little I cared for the views of their imaginary sky fairy. Thirdly - check what's going on in there before protesting so rudely you fucking idiots. And fourthly (this overlapped with secondly, on reflection) - if we had just had an abortion, it was a decision we would have come to soberly and sadly and for some good reason and it was no business of their imaginary friend.
Happily for all concerned, it took me a while to get past puzzle and shock, and my wife is less keen to seek trouble than I am, and by the time all this aligned in my head we were at least a mile away.
If Republic can send hecklers to scream at members of the royal family attending church or meeting crowds, anti abortion activists can send activists to pray and shout at those having an abortion.
Or you ban both as harassment. You have the same laws for right and left
Quite the lede from The Economist: and quite the cover.
“Although President Donald Trump says he has “destroyed 100% of Iran’s Military Capability”, the 0% that remains is playing havoc with the global economy.” And now quite the cover: @glcarlstrom
Pity its the same week that Zanny Minton-Beddoes chooses to give another neo-fascist shit a platform... previously the loathsome Bannon, now the loathsome and batshit Tucker Carlson
Don't be rude about Fucker Carlson. @Woger tells us that his opinions are worth listening to.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
Wikipedia says...
In the 47 countries of the world with Muslim-majority populations, access to abortion varies greatly. In many, abortion is allowed when the mother's life is at risk.[6] In 18 countries, including Iraq, Egypt, and Indonesia, this is the only circumstance where abortion is permitted. In another ten countries, it is allowed on request. Mauritania, however, prohibits abortion under any circumstance.[7] In others,[which?] abortion is permitted under certain circumstances besides preserving the mother's life, such as safeguarding her mental health, cases of fetal impairment, incest or rape, and social or economic reasons.
So, you're wrong. Most Muslim majority nations have more liberal abortion laws than that.
So I am right, only in less than a quarter of Muslim nations is abortion allowed on request up to gestational limit as in most western nations and in most Muslim nations abortion is only allowed in the case of risk to a woman's life or health or fetal impairment (Saudi also allows it in the case of rape) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
As pointed out, previously, we have bans on performative prayer by Christians (of a sort) outside abortion clinics.
So we have an operational precedent for the Process State types to create a process for (morality not included)
I find no difficulty in imagining that Chief Konstable Sir Ronald "Els" Savage of the Met (OBE, DIpSHIt) would pause only to request that the cleaner polish his awards for Muslim Community Relations before sending out the modern version of the TSG to hit @TheScreamingEagles for wearing a loud shoes in built up area.
So, what is the legal wording here? HYUFD seems to be implying, in his "As pointed out" sentence that the Abortion Clinic prayer limitations are specific to Christian prayer? The specific use of Christian in that sentence suggests that Muslim or Jewish prayer (for the unborn) outside an abortion clinic would be fine and dandy.
I suspect that is not the case, but am just checking.
It's not even specific to prayer, which is why I asked william how he proposed it might be used as a precedent by the sectarians in Reform and on the Tory right.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/15/section/9 Offence of interference with access to or provision of abortion services (1)It is an offence for a person who is within a safe access zone to do an act with the intent of, or reckless as to whether it has the effect of—
(a)influencing any person’s decision to access, provide or facilitate the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic,
(b)obstructing or impeding any person accessing, providing, or facilitating the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic, or
(c)causing harassment, alarm or distress to any person in connection with a decision to access, provide, or facilitate the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic,
where the person mentioned in paragraph (a), (b) or (c) is within the safe access zone for the abortion clinic.
‘C’ there is designed to be deliberately woolly, open and vague. A bit like ‘obstruction’
It gives Plod the ability to nick anyone that fails the attitude test.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
The balance of rights between mother and unborn child is absolutely fine to debate in a sober and rational way. Bringing unreachable deities whose views we claim to know into the debate is unhelpful.
This allows me to trot out one of my vasectomy stories. As my wife drove me away from the clinic, in loose fitting trousers, feeling distinctly sorry for myself, a large bunch of angry middle aged Christians started shouting abuse at her (it was a beautiful Spring day and the windows were down. I was momentarily puzzled, then furious. Clearly they were under the impression we'd been for an abortion. Despite my incapacity, I was quite clean to get out the car and kick off. First, to correct them, second and more importantly - how fucking dare some Christian talk to my wife like that - I may have been sore but I am quite a large bloke and have never felt it more urgent to dish out violent retribution to these ponces or at the very least tell them how little I cared for the views of their imaginary sky fairy. Thirdly - check what's going on in there before protesting so rudely you fucking idiots. And fourthly (this overlapped with secondly, on reflection) - if we had just had an abortion, it was a decision we would have come to soberly and sadly and for some good reason and it was no business of their imaginary friend.
Happily for all concerned, it took me a while to get past puzzle and shock, and my wife is less keen to seek trouble than I am, and by the time all this aligned in my head we were at least a mile away.
The 'unreachable deities' point slightly misses the heart of the matter. Whether ethics is subjective or objective is not a knowable item. There are insurmountable problems with both positions. But objectivists include lots of people who don't invoke the gods. Lots of atheists think that torturing children for fun is not only wrong, but still wrong even if everyone thought it was right. Kant invokes no gods in drawing that sort of objective conclusion.
Whether or not there is a god - another unknowable item - for lots of people the gods is where they ground the idea of objectivity. I am among them.
Hume, who believed none of this, is Trump's representative. 'I will feel it in my bones'. As Hume says, though he is wrong "Tis not unreasonable for me to prefer the destruction of the whole world to the scratching of my finger.”
Regrettably - because both you and the topic are interesting on this - I'm going to have to leave this here because real life calls. May pick up later if it's still relevant. Thanks for engaging and sorry if I got a bit splenetic.
When I think I could happily vote reform they do guff like this
Will I be allowed to karaoke to Living on a prayer by Bon Jovi?
I went to the mosque today, it was hell.
The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that Eid, for lack of a better word, is good. Eid is right, Eid works. Eid clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the Revolutionary spirit. Eid, in all of its forms; Eid for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And Eid, you mark my words, will not only save Sadiq, but that other malfunctioning entity called the Labour Party! Thank you very much.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
As pointed out, previously, we have bans on performative prayer by Christians (of a sort) outside abortion clinics.
So we have an operational precedent for the Process State types to create a process for (morality not included)
I find no difficulty in imagining that Chief Konstable Sir Ronald "Els" Savage of the Met (OBE, DIpSHIt) would pause only to request that the cleaner polish his awards for Muslim Community Relations before sending out the modern version of the TSG to hit @TheScreamingEagles for wearing a loud shoes in built up area.
So, what is the legal wording here? HYUFD seems to be implying, in his "As pointed out" sentence that the Abortion Clinic prayer limitations are specific to Christian prayer? The specific use of Christian in that sentence suggests that Muslim or Jewish prayer (for the unborn) outside an abortion clinic would be fine and dandy.
I suspect that is not the case, but am just checking.
It's not even specific to prayer, which is why I asked william how he proposed it might be used as a precedent by the sectarians in Reform and on the Tory right.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/15/section/9 Offence of interference with access to or provision of abortion services (1)It is an offence for a person who is within a safe access zone to do an act with the intent of, or reckless as to whether it has the effect of—
(a)influencing any person’s decision to access, provide or facilitate the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic,
(b)obstructing or impeding any person accessing, providing, or facilitating the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic, or
(c)causing harassment, alarm or distress to any person in connection with a decision to access, provide, or facilitate the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic,
where the person mentioned in paragraph (a), (b) or (c) is within the safe access zone for the abortion clinic.
‘C’ there is designed to be deliberately woolly, open and vague. A bit like ‘obstruction’
It gives Plod the ability to nick anyone that fails the attitude test.
Also the
- wearing a loud shirt in a built up area - possession of an offensive wife - stepping cracks in the pavement
Did you ear the one the other day? A young black gentleman addressed a black police officer, using the "N" word conversationally. Yes, they went all the way to court on that one. Due to the black police officer being offended.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
The balance of rights between mother and unborn child is absolutely fine to debate in a sober and rational way. Bringing unreachable deities whose views we claim to know into the debate is unhelpful.
This allows me to trot out one of my vasectomy stories. As my wife drove me away from the clinic, in loose fitting trousers, feeling distinctly sorry for myself, a large bunch of angry middle aged Christians started shouting abuse at her (it was a beautiful Spring day and the windows were down. I was momentarily puzzled, then furious. Clearly they were under the impression we'd been for an abortion. Despite my incapacity, I was quite clean to get out the car and kick off. First, to correct them, second and more importantly - how fucking dare some Christian talk to my wife like that - I may have been sore but I am quite a large bloke and have never felt it more urgent to dish out violent retribution to these ponces or at the very least tell them how little I cared for the views of their imaginary sky fairy. Thirdly - check what's going on in there before protesting so rudely you fucking idiots. And fourthly (this overlapped with secondly, on reflection) - if we had just had an abortion, it was a decision we would have come to soberly and sadly and for some good reason and it was no business of their imaginary friend.
Happily for all concerned, it took me a while to get past puzzle and shock, and my wife is less keen to seek trouble than I am, and by the time all this aligned in my head we were at least a mile away.
If Republic can send hecklers to scream at members of the royal family attending church or meeting crowds, anti abortion activists can send activists to pray and shout at those having an abortion.
Or you ban both as harassment. You have the same laws for right and left
The Whataboutery of the Week Award goes to HYUFD!
HYUFD, I know this award must mean a lot to you. What are you going to do with the trophy? Display it at home?
If you don't like Muslims vote Reform If you don't like MUSLIMS vote Reform If you don't like Muslims, don't like Muslims, if you don't like Muslims vote Reform
This is the song Farage is singing.
Politically its seems very stupid, those that don't already are voting Reform. But the flip side those Reform curious by factor of think Labour and Tory are crap but not big Tommy Ten Names fans, not going to help.
Maybe but he'll have thought about it. His essential challenge is to get the racist vote plus the lion's share of pissed off roll-the-dicers. That would likely see him into Downing St. With this he's telegraphing to the first group that he's their man (so don't bother looking at Rupert Lowe or anyone else) in a way that (he hopes) doesn't trigger "oh shit Farage is a racist" alarm bells amongst too many of the second group.
As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.
What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.
Utter insanity.
The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
I blame the US electorate.
They knew that Trump was a capricious, narcisstic, vengeful, vainglorious potential tyrant from his first term, but re-elected him anyway. Now the world has to live with the consequences.
Now we know how the Romans must have felt under Caligula.
The Democrats are at fault,here. As is Biden.
For contriving to put forward Kamala Harris. Inept as a candidate during the primaries that saw Biden come to get the nomination. What did they expect
That's a bit like blaming the sexual assault victim because she was wearing a short skirt.
It is not Biden/Harris's "fault" Trump was elected. He was elected fairly and squarely by a majority of voters and won the electoral college.
Neither is it Biden/Harris's "fault" that Trump has surrounded himself with yes-men (and Tulsi) and is suffering a terminal cognitive decline.
One could argue that installing an imbecile and wannabe dictator as the official Republican Presidential candidate was the "fault" of the Republican Party.
It’s perfectly fair to blame the Democrats for poor leadership candidate selection. Just as people did here with Corbyn and Labour in 2019.
No one is blaming them for the subsequent actions of the Trumpdozer who, along with Bibi, are doing their best to remove Western global hegemony.
Harris was vilified by the media, not least by packs of lies distributed on X and Fox.
Granted Biden's immigration free for all wasn't ideal in the cold light of reality, but then voters believed that the man who advised them to inject bleach into their bodies to overcome COVID could bring down the price of gas and eggs.
Trump never said to inject bleach, he did muse about researching if uv light could work as the equivalent of disinfectant inside the body.
Its strange that given all the things Trump has actually said and done that people still repeat bollox that he never said.
He also mused about injecting bleach. It's strange that people want to deny that.
"And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?
So why did you feel the need to use a different word to what Trump actually said ?
Ok Mr I'm Impartial But The Left Is So Terrible I Am Always Forced To Criticise Them Exclusively, as an expert on what Trump meant, to which disinfectant was he referring?
If you don't like Muslims vote Reform If you don't like MUSLIMS vote Reform If you don't like Muslims, don't like Muslims, if you don't like Muslims vote Reform
If you don't like Muslims vote Reform If you don't like MUSLIMS vote Reform If you don't like Muslims, don't like Muslims, if you don't like Muslims vote Reform
This is the song Farage is singing.
Politically its seems very stupid, those that don't already are voting Reform. But the flip side those Reform curious by factor of think Labour and Tory are crap but not big Tommy Ten Names fans, not going to help.
No. Politically it is not stupid.
Populism does work politically. It’s not taboo because it doesn’t work, it’s taboo because it does work but installs the wrong values, illiberal society less tolerant of minorities.
Tolerance of minority is what Democracy was invented for. It’s what the difference is between freedoms we all faily enjoy now, and the nature state of Dinosaurs and Cavemen and Cavewomen. And Cavetrans.
The hatred of Muslims seals up 99% of the Indian vote for Reform. People who like Muslim mass prayers being banned from Albert Square, as seeing them all there is such obvious challenge to the values of our country as Kemi explained it, will switch from Conservative to Reform. But those who dislike it won’t believe Farage and reform will actually do it. They will believe they can safely vote for Reform for change, but never get the Reform policies they don’t actually like.
That’s how politics works. The Open, Free, Fair and Liberal Nature of Liberal Democracy can be gamed by people who don’t believe in such things. That’s why the Nazi fascism of Farage and Reform is so politically taboo.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
Wikipedia says...
In the 47 countries of the world with Muslim-majority populations, access to abortion varies greatly. In many, abortion is allowed when the mother's life is at risk.[6] In 18 countries, including Iraq, Egypt, and Indonesia, this is the only circumstance where abortion is permitted. In another ten countries, it is allowed on request. Mauritania, however, prohibits abortion under any circumstance.[7] In others,[which?] abortion is permitted under certain circumstances besides preserving the mother's life, such as safeguarding her mental health, cases of fetal impairment, incest or rape, and social or economic reasons.
So, you're wrong. Most Muslim majority nations have more liberal abortion laws than that.
So I am right, only in less than a quarter of Muslim nations is abortion allowed on request up to gestational limit as in most western nations and in most Muslim nations abortion is only allowed in the case of risk to a woman's life or health or fetal impairment (Saudi also allows it in the case of rape) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law
That’s not what you said previously. You said, “Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life”, whereas that’s only true for 18/47 countries (plus Mauritania’s complete ban takes us to 19/47 countries).
Abortion is not allowed on request in many western nations. It isn’t in the UK or Germany or large parts of the US, for example.
If you don't like Muslims vote Reform If you don't like MUSLIMS vote Reform If you don't like Muslims, don't like Muslims, if you don't like Muslims vote Reform
This is the song Farage is singing.
Politically its seems very stupid, those that don't already are voting Reform. But the flip side those Reform curious by factor of think Labour and Tory are crap but not big Tommy Ten Names fans, not going to help.
Maybe but he'll have thought about it. His essential challenge is to get the racist vote plus the lion's share of pissed off roll-the-dicers. That would likely see him into Downing St. With this he's telegraphing to the first group that he's their man (so don't bother looking at Rupert Lowe or anyone else) in a way that (he hopes) doesn't trigger "oh shit Farage is a racist" alarm bells amongst too many of the second group.
Not that I am a Farage fan, but seems like the better way to win both is continued focus on immigration, especially illegal immigration via small boats, and stuff like 'uman rights met scumbag didn't get deported. There are a sizable proportion of people who think immigration is too high and that the system has abused that aren't on Tommy Ten Name rallies.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
Wikipedia says...
In the 47 countries of the world with Muslim-majority populations, access to abortion varies greatly. In many, abortion is allowed when the mother's life is at risk.[6] In 18 countries, including Iraq, Egypt, and Indonesia, this is the only circumstance where abortion is permitted. In another ten countries, it is allowed on request. Mauritania, however, prohibits abortion under any circumstance.[7] In others,[which?] abortion is permitted under certain circumstances besides preserving the mother's life, such as safeguarding her mental health, cases of fetal impairment, incest or rape, and social or economic reasons.
So, you're wrong. Most Muslim majority nations have more liberal abortion laws than that.
So I am right, only in less than a quarter of Muslim nations is abortion allowed on request up to gestational limit as in most western nations and in most Muslim nations abortion is only allowed in the case of risk to a woman's life or health or fetal impairment (Saudi also allows it in the case of rape) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law
That’s not what you said previously. You said, “Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life”, whereas that’s only true for 18/47 countries (plus Mauritania’s complete ban takes us to 19/47 countries).
Abortion is not allowed on request in many western nations. It isn’t in the UK or Germany or large parts of the US, for example.
There is zero point talking about abortion with HYUFD - life is too short to continually try and correct his “misunderstandings” given his personal viewpoint
Quite the lede from The Economist: and quite the cover.
“Although President Donald Trump says he has “destroyed 100% of Iran’s Military Capability”, the 0% that remains is playing havoc with the global economy.” And now quite the cover: @glcarlstrom
Talking of religion - any converts for my fusion of Crom and Unitarianism.
“Crom, I have never prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we lived, or why we died. No, all that matters is that two offered weak tea and acceptance to many. That's what's important! Vague niceness pleases you, Crom... so grant me one request. Grant me lots of platitudes! And if you do not listen, then to HELL with you!"
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
As pointed out, previously, we have bans on performative prayer by Christians (of a sort) outside abortion clinics.
So we have an operational precedent for the Process State types to create a process for (morality not included)
I find no difficulty in imagining that Chief Konstable Sir Ronald "Els" Savage of the Met (OBE, DIpSHIt) would pause only to request that the cleaner polish his awards for Muslim Community Relations before sending out the modern version of the TSG to hit @TheScreamingEagles for wearing a loud shoes in built up area.
So, what is the legal wording here? HYUFD seems to be implying, in his "As pointed out" sentence that the Abortion Clinic prayer limitations are specific to Christian prayer? The specific use of Christian in that sentence suggests that Muslim or Jewish prayer (for the unborn) outside an abortion clinic would be fine and dandy.
I suspect that is not the case, but am just checking.
It's not even specific to prayer, which is why I asked william how he proposed it might be used as a precedent by the sectarians in Reform and on the Tory right.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/15/section/9 Offence of interference with access to or provision of abortion services (1)It is an offence for a person who is within a safe access zone to do an act with the intent of, or reckless as to whether it has the effect of—
(a)influencing any person’s decision to access, provide or facilitate the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic,
(b)obstructing or impeding any person accessing, providing, or facilitating the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic, or
(c)causing harassment, alarm or distress to any person in connection with a decision to access, provide, or facilitate the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic,
where the person mentioned in paragraph (a), (b) or (c) is within the safe access zone for the abortion clinic.
‘C’ there is designed to be deliberately woolly, open and vague. A bit like ‘obstruction’
It gives Plod the ability to nick anyone that fails the attitude test.
Also the
- wearing a loud shirt in a built up area - possession of an offensive wife - stepping cracks in the pavement
Did you ear the one the other day? A young black gentleman addressed a black police officer, using the "N" word conversationally. Yes, they went all the way to court on that one. Due to the black police officer being offended.
Like the girl who ended up being prosecuted and convicted for a racially aggravated crime for posting rap lyrics as a tribute to a friend who died.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
The balance of rights between mother and unborn child is absolutely fine to debate in a sober and rational way. Bringing unreachable deities whose views we claim to know into the debate is unhelpful.
This allows me to trot out one of my vasectomy stories. As my wife drove me away from the clinic, in loose fitting trousers, feeling distinctly sorry for myself, a large bunch of angry middle aged Christians started shouting abuse at her (it was a beautiful Spring day and the windows were down. I was momentarily puzzled, then furious. Clearly they were under the impression we'd been for an abortion. Despite my incapacity, I was quite clean to get out the car and kick off. First, to correct them, second and more importantly - how fucking dare some Christian talk to my wife like that - I may have been sore but I am quite a large bloke and have never felt it more urgent to dish out violent retribution to these ponces or at the very least tell them how little I cared for the views of their imaginary sky fairy. Thirdly - check what's going on in there before protesting so rudely you fucking idiots. And fourthly (this overlapped with secondly, on reflection) - if we had just had an abortion, it was a decision we would have come to soberly and sadly and for some good reason and it was no business of their imaginary friend.
Happily for all concerned, it took me a while to get past puzzle and shock, and my wife is less keen to seek trouble than I am, and by the time all this aligned in my head we were at least a mile away.
If Republic can send hecklers to scream at members of the royal family attending church or meeting crowds, anti abortion activists can send activists to pray and shout at those having an abortion.
Or you ban both as harassment. You have the same laws for right and left
It’s not right and left. There’s no equivalence. No one WANTS to be at an abortion clinic. Deciding to have an abortion is (for obvious reasons I’ve no personal experience of it) usually a traumatic, once in a lifetime, decision to make for a variety of reasons. Shouting at someone in those circumstances adds trauma on trauma.
That’s not equivalent to shouting at a member of the Royal Family. It’s not even close.
A very disappointing post even by this site’s standards.
I really thought this Farage iteration would be different.
Farage is doing it primarily because he's a racist turd. No need to overthink this.
Farage is doing this because he is an intelligent racist turd.
Because he’s hoping that while the racists Reform voters pick up on it, the none racist Reform voters don’t pick up the racist undertones as it’s slightly removed from outright racism
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
The balance of rights between mother and unborn child is absolutely fine to debate in a sober and rational way. Bringing unreachable deities whose views we claim to know into the debate is unhelpful.
This allows me to trot out one of my vasectomy stories. As my wife drove me away from the clinic, in loose fitting trousers, feeling distinctly sorry for myself, a large bunch of angry middle aged Christians started shouting abuse at her (it was a beautiful Spring day and the windows were down. I was momentarily puzzled, then furious. Clearly they were under the impression we'd been for an abortion. Despite my incapacity, I was quite clean to get out the car and kick off. First, to correct them, second and more importantly - how fucking dare some Christian talk to my wife like that - I may have been sore but I am quite a large bloke and have never felt it more urgent to dish out violent retribution to these ponces or at the very least tell them how little I cared for the views of their imaginary sky fairy. Thirdly - check what's going on in there before protesting so rudely you fucking idiots. And fourthly (this overlapped with secondly, on reflection) - if we had just had an abortion, it was a decision we would have come to soberly and sadly and for some good reason and it was no business of their imaginary friend.
Happily for all concerned, it took me a while to get past puzzle and shock, and my wife is less keen to seek trouble than I am, and by the time all this aligned in my head we were at least a mile away.
If Republic can send hecklers to scream at members of the royal family attending church or meeting crowds, anti abortion activists can send activists to pray and shout at those having an abortion.
Or you ban both as harassment. You have the same laws for right and left
Heckling public figures at their place of work, while they are working publicly, that they are paid to go to out of taxpayers money is not equivalent to heckling private citizens who are seeking private and confidential healthcare.
If you don't like Muslims vote Reform If you don't like MUSLIMS vote Reform If you don't like Muslims, don't like Muslims, if you don't like Muslims vote Reform
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
The balance of rights between mother and unborn child is absolutely fine to debate in a sober and rational way. Bringing unreachable deities whose views we claim to know into the debate is unhelpful.
This allows me to trot out one of my vasectomy stories. As my wife drove me away from the clinic, in loose fitting trousers, feeling distinctly sorry for myself, a large bunch of angry middle aged Christians started shouting abuse at her (it was a beautiful Spring day and the windows were down. I was momentarily puzzled, then furious. Clearly they were under the impression we'd been for an abortion. Despite my incapacity, I was quite clean to get out the car and kick off. First, to correct them, second and more importantly - how fucking dare some Christian talk to my wife like that - I may have been sore but I am quite a large bloke and have never felt it more urgent to dish out violent retribution to these ponces or at the very least tell them how little I cared for the views of their imaginary sky fairy. Thirdly - check what's going on in there before protesting so rudely you fucking idiots. And fourthly (this overlapped with secondly, on reflection) - if we had just had an abortion, it was a decision we would have come to soberly and sadly and for some good reason and it was no business of their imaginary friend.
Happily for all concerned, it took me a while to get past puzzle and shock, and my wife is less keen to seek trouble than I am, and by the time all this aligned in my head we were at least a mile away.
If Republic can send hecklers to scream at members of the royal family attending church or meeting crowds, anti abortion activists can send activists to pray and shout at those having an abortion.
Or you ban both as harassment. You have the same laws for right and left
Heckling public figures at their place of work, while they are working publicly, that they are paid to go to out of taxpayers money is not equivalent to heckling private citizens who are seeking private and confidential healthcare.
The King's place of work is Buckingham Palace, the Prince of Wales' Kensington Palace, not a cathedral or visiting a community group.
Abortions on the NHS are of course paid for from public money and by taxpayers and indeed technically the royals are funded by crown estate and duchy profits not taxes bar security so they are equivalent indeed arguably more public interest in the abortion havers unless a private clinic.
It is just pure political bias otherwise, so I say allow the anti abortion hecklers as long as Republic are allowed to heckle or ban both as harassment!
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
As pointed out, previously, we have bans on performative prayer by Christians (of a sort) outside abortion clinics.
So we have an operational precedent for the Process State types to create a process for (morality not included)
I find no difficulty in imagining that Chief Konstable Sir Ronald "Els" Savage of the Met (OBE, DIpSHIt) would pause only to request that the cleaner polish his awards for Muslim Community Relations before sending out the modern version of the TSG to hit @TheScreamingEagles for wearing a loud shoes in built up area.
So, what is the legal wording here? HYUFD seems to be implying, in his "As pointed out" sentence that the Abortion Clinic prayer limitations are specific to Christian prayer? The specific use of Christian in that sentence suggests that Muslim or Jewish prayer (for the unborn) outside an abortion clinic would be fine and dandy.
I suspect that is not the case, but am just checking.
It's not even specific to prayer, which is why I asked william how he proposed it might be used as a precedent by the sectarians in Reform and on the Tory right.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/15/section/9 Offence of interference with access to or provision of abortion services (1)It is an offence for a person who is within a safe access zone to do an act with the intent of, or reckless as to whether it has the effect of—
(a)influencing any person’s decision to access, provide or facilitate the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic,
(b)obstructing or impeding any person accessing, providing, or facilitating the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic, or
(c)causing harassment, alarm or distress to any person in connection with a decision to access, provide, or facilitate the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic,
where the person mentioned in paragraph (a), (b) or (c) is within the safe access zone for the abortion clinic.
‘C’ there is designed to be deliberately woolly, open and vague. A bit like ‘obstruction’
It gives Plod the ability to nick anyone that fails the attitude test.
Also the
- wearing a loud shirt in a built up area - possession of an offensive wife - stepping cracks in the pavement
Did you ear the one the other day? A young black gentleman addressed a black police officer, using the "N" word conversationally. Yes, they went all the way to court on that one. Due to the black police officer being offended.
Like the girl who ended up being prosecuted and convicted for a racially aggravated crime for posting rap lyrics as a tribute to a friend who died.
We must be mad. This is not the silver bullet these people think. It merely shows how many economically inactive dependents, future burdens on the taxpayer, came over as dependents as part of the Boriswave.
One of the main purposes of extending ILR to 10 years is to prevent access to benefits. It’s the whole point.
Utterly nuts Labour MPs opposing this.
‘ Excl: New analysis shows plans to impose the new 10-year settlement rules to migrants already in the UK will increase child poverty by 90,000.
Labour rebels have seized on the findings to argue that the policy conflicts with the party's pledge to reduce child poverty.
They are planning to force a symbolic vote in parliament to expose the scale of opposition to the plans on the Labour benches.’
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
The balance of rights between mother and unborn child is absolutely fine to debate in a sober and rational way. Bringing unreachable deities whose views we claim to know into the debate is unhelpful.
This allows me to trot out one of my vasectomy stories. As my wife drove me away from the clinic, in loose fitting trousers, feeling distinctly sorry for myself, a large bunch of angry middle aged Christians started shouting abuse at her (it was a beautiful Spring day and the windows were down. I was momentarily puzzled, then furious. Clearly they were under the impression we'd been for an abortion. Despite my incapacity, I was quite clean to get out the car and kick off. First, to correct them, second and more importantly - how fucking dare some Christian talk to my wife like that - I may have been sore but I am quite a large bloke and have never felt it more urgent to dish out violent retribution to these ponces or at the very least tell them how little I cared for the views of their imaginary sky fairy. Thirdly - check what's going on in there before protesting so rudely you fucking idiots. And fourthly (this overlapped with secondly, on reflection) - if we had just had an abortion, it was a decision we would have come to soberly and sadly and for some good reason and it was no business of their imaginary friend.
Happily for all concerned, it took me a while to get past puzzle and shock, and my wife is less keen to seek trouble than I am, and by the time all this aligned in my head we were at least a mile away.
If Republic can send hecklers to scream at members of the royal family attending church or meeting crowds, anti abortion activists can send activists to pray and shout at those having an abortion.
Or you ban both as harassment. You have the same laws for right and left
It’s not right and left. There’s no equivalence. No one WANTS to be at an abortion clinic. Deciding to have an abortion is (for obvious reasons I’ve no personal experience of it) usually a traumatic, once in a lifetime, decision to make for a variety of reasons. Shouting at someone in those circumstances adds trauma on trauma.
That’s not equivalent to shouting at a member of the Royal Family. It’s not even close.
A very disappointing post even by this site’s standards.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
The balance of rights between mother and unborn child is absolutely fine to debate in a sober and rational way. Bringing unreachable deities whose views we claim to know into the debate is unhelpful.
This allows me to trot out one of my vasectomy stories. As my wife drove me away from the clinic, in loose fitting trousers, feeling distinctly sorry for myself, a large bunch of angry middle aged Christians started shouting abuse at her (it was a beautiful Spring day and the windows were down. I was momentarily puzzled, then furious. Clearly they were under the impression we'd been for an abortion. Despite my incapacity, I was quite clean to get out the car and kick off. First, to correct them, second and more importantly - how fucking dare some Christian talk to my wife like that - I may have been sore but I am quite a large bloke and have never felt it more urgent to dish out violent retribution to these ponces or at the very least tell them how little I cared for the views of their imaginary sky fairy. Thirdly - check what's going on in there before protesting so rudely you fucking idiots. And fourthly (this overlapped with secondly, on reflection) - if we had just had an abortion, it was a decision we would have come to soberly and sadly and for some good reason and it was no business of their imaginary friend.
Happily for all concerned, it took me a while to get past puzzle and shock, and my wife is less keen to seek trouble than I am, and by the time all this aligned in my head we were at least a mile away.
If Republic can send hecklers to scream at members of the royal family attending church or meeting crowds, anti abortion activists can send activists to pray and shout at those having an abortion.
Or you ban both as harassment. You have the same laws for right and left
Heckling public figures at their place of work, while they are working publicly, that they are paid to go to out of taxpayers money is not equivalent to heckling private citizens who are seeking private and confidential healthcare.
The King's place of work is Buckingham Palace, the Prince of Wales' Kensington Palace, not a cathedral or visiting a community group.
Abortions on the NHS are of course paid for from public money and indeed technically the royals are funded by crown estate and duchy profits not taxes so they are equivalent.
It is just pure political bias otherwise, so I say allow the anti abortion hecklers as long as Republic are allowed to heckle or ban both as harassment!
The King's place of work is any place he goes to in a professional capacity while working. Work and healthcare are completely different and not equivalent.
Your argument is like suggesting heckling Jimmy Carr while he is touring a venue is not doing so at his place of work as it is not where he is always based.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
The balance of rights between mother and unborn child is absolutely fine to debate in a sober and rational way. Bringing unreachable deities whose views we claim to know into the debate is unhelpful.
This allows me to trot out one of my vasectomy stories. As my wife drove me away from the clinic, in loose fitting trousers, feeling distinctly sorry for myself, a large bunch of angry middle aged Christians started shouting abuse at her (it was a beautiful Spring day and the windows were down. I was momentarily puzzled, then furious. Clearly they were under the impression we'd been for an abortion. Despite my incapacity, I was quite clean to get out the car and kick off. First, to correct them, second and more importantly - how fucking dare some Christian talk to my wife like that - I may have been sore but I am quite a large bloke and have never felt it more urgent to dish out violent retribution to these ponces or at the very least tell them how little I cared for the views of their imaginary sky fairy. Thirdly - check what's going on in there before protesting so rudely you fucking idiots. And fourthly (this overlapped with secondly, on reflection) - if we had just had an abortion, it was a decision we would have come to soberly and sadly and for some good reason and it was no business of their imaginary friend.
Happily for all concerned, it took me a while to get past puzzle and shock, and my wife is less keen to seek trouble than I am, and by the time all this aligned in my head we were at least a mile away.
If Republic can send hecklers to scream at members of the royal family attending church or meeting crowds, anti abortion activists can send activists to pray and shout at those having an abortion.
Or you ban both as harassment. You have the same laws for right and left
It’s not right and left. There’s no equivalence. No one WANTS to be at an abortion clinic. Deciding to have an abortion is (for obvious reasons I’ve no personal experience of it) usually a traumatic, once in a lifetime, decision to make for a variety of reasons. Shouting at someone in those circumstances adds trauma on trauma.
That’s not equivalent to shouting at a member of the Royal Family. It’s not even close.
A very disappointing post even by this site’s standards.
Rubbish, it is just pure left liberal bias from you and others who say anti abortion campaigners for the unborn child, who are often just praying are worse than Republic oiks screaming at the royal family
If you don't like Muslims vote Reform If you don't like MUSLIMS vote Reform If you don't like Muslims, don't like Muslims, if you don't like Muslims vote Reform
This is the song Farage is singing.
Politically its seems very stupid, those that don't already are voting Reform. But the flip side those Reform curious by factor of think Labour and Tory are crap but not big Tommy Ten Names fans, not going to help.
In the early days Farage made his name on the principle of rolling back the State. It was an argument he often used in his attacks on the EU -centralisation, control and state interference.
Nowadays most of his policies seem to involve the State getting even more involved in the private and public lives of individuals. I am not in any way religious. I am equally scornful of all religions. But the idea of banning people from simple public display of their faith, where it doesn't actually cause harm to others, is a huge leap too far for the State.
If anyone from Republic were heckling the King at healthcare facilities he is going to in order to get medical treatment, eg heckling him while seeking cancer treatment, then that would be equivalent to heckling women seeking medical treatment.
That does not happen though, as far as I know. If it did, it would be repugnant.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
Wikipedia says...
In the 47 countries of the world with Muslim-majority populations, access to abortion varies greatly. In many, abortion is allowed when the mother's life is at risk.[6] In 18 countries, including Iraq, Egypt, and Indonesia, this is the only circumstance where abortion is permitted. In another ten countries, it is allowed on request. Mauritania, however, prohibits abortion under any circumstance.[7] In others,[which?] abortion is permitted under certain circumstances besides preserving the mother's life, such as safeguarding her mental health, cases of fetal impairment, incest or rape, and social or economic reasons.
So, you're wrong. Most Muslim majority nations have more liberal abortion laws than that.
So I am right, only in less than a quarter of Muslim nations is abortion allowed on request up to gestational limit as in most western nations and in most Muslim nations abortion is only allowed in the case of risk to a woman's life or health or fetal impairment (Saudi also allows it in the case of rape) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law
That’s not what you said previously. You said, “Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life”, whereas that’s only true for 18/47 countries (plus Mauritania’s complete ban takes us to 19/47 countries).
Abortion is not allowed on request in many western nations. It isn’t in the UK or Germany or large parts of the US, for example.
Wrong, it is in the UK and Germany up to gestational limit and still in most US states
I don’t much like seeing mass Islamic prayer in Trafalgar Square. Would feel the same way about some mass Jewish ritual, a large Catholic Mass, or some irritating evangelical Christian sect.
If anyone from Republic were heckling the King at healthcare facilities he is going to in order to get medical treatment, eg heckling him while seeking cancer treatment, then that would be equivalent to heckling women seeking medical treatment.
That does not happen though, as far as I know. If it did, it would be repugnant.
A woman having an abortion is aborting her unborn child, not seeking medical treatment for herself so it is not exactly equivalent even then
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
The balance of rights between mother and unborn child is absolutely fine to debate in a sober and rational way. Bringing unreachable deities whose views we claim to know into the debate is unhelpful.
This allows me to trot out one of my vasectomy stories. As my wife drove me away from the clinic, in loose fitting trousers, feeling distinctly sorry for myself, a large bunch of angry middle aged Christians started shouting abuse at her (it was a beautiful Spring day and the windows were down. I was momentarily puzzled, then furious. Clearly they were under the impression we'd been for an abortion. Despite my incapacity, I was quite clean to get out the car and kick off. First, to correct them, second and more importantly - how fucking dare some Christian talk to my wife like that - I may have been sore but I am quite a large bloke and have never felt it more urgent to dish out violent retribution to these ponces or at the very least tell them how little I cared for the views of their imaginary sky fairy. Thirdly - check what's going on in there before protesting so rudely you fucking idiots. And fourthly (this overlapped with secondly, on reflection) - if we had just had an abortion, it was a decision we would have come to soberly and sadly and for some good reason and it was no business of their imaginary friend.
Happily for all concerned, it took me a while to get past puzzle and shock, and my wife is less keen to seek trouble than I am, and by the time all this aligned in my head we were at least a mile away.
If Republic can send hecklers to scream at members of the royal family attending church or meeting crowds, anti abortion activists can send activists to pray and shout at those having an abortion.
Or you ban both as harassment. You have the same laws for right and left
It’s not right and left. There’s no equivalence. No one WANTS to be at an abortion clinic. Deciding to have an abortion is (for obvious reasons I’ve no personal experience of it) usually a traumatic, once in a lifetime, decision to make for a variety of reasons. Shouting at someone in those circumstances adds trauma on trauma.
That’s not equivalent to shouting at a member of the Royal Family. It’s not even close.
A very disappointing post even by this site’s standards.
Silently praying is also apparently not allowed.
If you find yourself walking past an abortion clinic and say a little prayer to yourself, that is not illegal. If you stage a protest designed to intimidate people using the clinic, in which people stand there ostentatiously but silently praying, that is illegal.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
The balance of rights between mother and unborn child is absolutely fine to debate in a sober and rational way. Bringing unreachable deities whose views we claim to know into the debate is unhelpful.
This allows me to trot out one of my vasectomy stories. As my wife drove me away from the clinic, in loose fitting trousers, feeling distinctly sorry for myself, a large bunch of angry middle aged Christians started shouting abuse at her (it was a beautiful Spring day and the windows were down. I was momentarily puzzled, then furious. Clearly they were under the impression we'd been for an abortion. Despite my incapacity, I was quite clean to get out the car and kick off. First, to correct them, second and more importantly - how fucking dare some Christian talk to my wife like that - I may have been sore but I am quite a large bloke and have never felt it more urgent to dish out violent retribution to these ponces or at the very least tell them how little I cared for the views of their imaginary sky fairy. Thirdly - check what's going on in there before protesting so rudely you fucking idiots. And fourthly (this overlapped with secondly, on reflection) - if we had just had an abortion, it was a decision we would have come to soberly and sadly and for some good reason and it was no business of their imaginary friend.
Happily for all concerned, it took me a while to get past puzzle and shock, and my wife is less keen to seek trouble than I am, and by the time all this aligned in my head we were at least a mile away.
If Republic can send hecklers to scream at members of the royal family attending church or meeting crowds, anti abortion activists can send activists to pray and shout at those having an abortion.
Or you ban both as harassment. You have the same laws for right and left
Heckling public figures at their place of work, while they are working publicly, that they are paid to go to out of taxpayers money is not equivalent to heckling private citizens who are seeking private and confidential healthcare.
The King's place of work is Buckingham Palace, the Prince of Wales' Kensington Palace, not a cathedral or visiting a community group.
Abortions on the NHS are of course paid for from public money and indeed technically the royals are funded by crown estate and duchy profits not taxes so they are equivalent.
It is just pure political bias otherwise, so I say allow the anti abortion hecklers as long as Republic are allowed to heckle or ban both as harassment!
The King's place of work is any place he goes to in a professional capacity while working. Work and healthcare are completely different and not equivalent.
Your argument is like suggesting heckling Jimmy Carr while he is touring a venue is not doing so at his place of work as it is not where he is always based.
Preposterous.
The King's place of work is his office, vising a community group as head of state is not a political act in any way even of a constitutional monarch and heckling there is just harassment
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
Yeah, but so far it’s only the Christians demanding that they be allowed to pray in womens’ faces.
The law doesn't even mention religion.
That is how it works in a liberal democracy. We don't outlaw religions; we outlaw doing stuff to harm others, and if religion is claimed as justification for doing that stuff, then we make it clear that is no justification.
Yet again, this was the guidance published during the consultation over this particular law:
It is unacceptable for anyone to be harassed or distressed simply for exercising their legal right to access abortion services. The Government has always expected the police and local authorities to use their powers to deal with those who break the law.
The rights to gather, to express views and to manifest religious beliefs are a cornerstone of democracy in Britain and people should be free to gather and express their views, however uncomfortable they are to others, providing they do so within the law.
To be clear, this legislation only affects certain activities within 150 metres of a clinic or hospital. Not all protests are banned and neither does this amount to criminalising those who hold pro-life views who are in a Safe Access Zone. It does not affect people’s rights to gather or to express their views about abortion or to manifest their religious beliefs about abortion anywhere else.
It is vitally important that law enforcement agencies recognise the rights of both of those accessing or providing abortion services and protestors and, in enforcement, seek to balance their respective rights...
Seeking to specifically ban a particular religion from public prayer isn't even vaguely comparable to what section 9 of the Public Order Act does.
So, using the precedent, the Reform (fuck)wits declare that people feel intimidated by certain kinds of prayer in public.
I think when the law above was passed, some people mentioned that banning things, on the basis that people felt offended by them, had a risk.
That some people are genuinely offended by things that shouldn't be banned.
The law was nothing to do with being "offended", genuinely or not. It was drafted to prevent women accessing a service from being harassed or intimidated, within 150m of the service premises, by those trying to persuade them not to access that service.
The framing you describe is not an honest description of what the law says, or the very narrow set of locations where it applies.
It is no kind of precedent for what Farage and the rest of the motley crew are proposing.
If anyone from Republic were heckling the King at healthcare facilities he is going to in order to get medical treatment, eg heckling him while seeking cancer treatment, then that would be equivalent to heckling women seeking medical treatment.
That does not happen though, as far as I know. If it did, it would be repugnant.
A woman having an abortion is aborting her unborn child, not seeking medical treatment for herself so it is not exactly equivalent even then
If anyone from Republic were heckling the King at healthcare facilities he is going to in order to get medical treatment, eg heckling him while seeking cancer treatment, then that would be equivalent to heckling women seeking medical treatment.
That does not happen though, as far as I know. If it did, it would be repugnant.
A woman having an abortion is aborting her unborn child, not seeking medical treatment for herself so it is not exactly equivalent even then
That is medical treatment for herself, whether you like it or not.
Terminating her own pregnancy is a treatment for herself.
Is anyone heckling the King while he is getting medical treatment? Are they bollocks. Your whatabouterism is absurd.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
As pointed out, previously, we have bans on performative prayer by Christians (of a sort) outside abortion clinics.
So we have an operational precedent for the Process State types to create a process for (morality not included)
I find no difficulty in imagining that Chief Konstable Sir Ronald "Els" Savage of the Met (OBE, DIpSHIt) would pause only to request that the cleaner polish his awards for Muslim Community Relations before sending out the modern version of the TSG to hit @TheScreamingEagles for wearing a loud shoes in built up area.
So, what is the legal wording here? HYUFD seems to be implying, in his "As pointed out" sentence that the Abortion Clinic prayer limitations are specific to Christian prayer? The specific use of Christian in that sentence suggests that Muslim or Jewish prayer (for the unborn) outside an abortion clinic would be fine and dandy.
I suspect that is not the case, but am just checking.
It's not even specific to prayer, which is why I asked william how he proposed it might be used as a precedent by the sectarians in Reform and on the Tory right.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/15/section/9 Offence of interference with access to or provision of abortion services (1)It is an offence for a person who is within a safe access zone to do an act with the intent of, or reckless as to whether it has the effect of—
(a)influencing any person’s decision to access, provide or facilitate the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic,
(b)obstructing or impeding any person accessing, providing, or facilitating the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic, or
(c)causing harassment, alarm or distress to any person in connection with a decision to access, provide, or facilitate the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic,
where the person mentioned in paragraph (a), (b) or (c) is within the safe access zone for the abortion clinic.
‘C’ there is designed to be deliberately woolly, open and vague. A bit like ‘obstruction’
It gives Plod the ability to nick anyone that fails the attitude test.
Also the
- wearing a loud shirt in a built up area - possession of an offensive wife - stepping cracks in the pavement
Did you ear the one the other day? A young black gentleman addressed a black police officer, using the "N" word conversationally. Yes, they went all the way to court on that one. Due to the black police officer being offended.
Like the girl who ended up being prosecuted and convicted for a racially aggravated crime for posting rap lyrics as a tribute to a friend who died.
I don’t much like seeing mass Islamic prayer in Trafalgar Square. Would feel the same way about some mass Jewish ritual, a large Catholic Mass, or some irritating evangelical Christian sect.
Wouldn’t mind a big morris-dancing thing.
If we are going to start banning things I would start with fucking Morris Dancing.
I don’t much like seeing mass Islamic prayer in Trafalgar Square. Would feel the same way about some mass Jewish ritual, a large Catholic Mass, or some irritating evangelical Christian sect.
If anyone from Republic were heckling the King at healthcare facilities he is going to in order to get medical treatment, eg heckling him while seeking cancer treatment, then that would be equivalent to heckling women seeking medical treatment.
That does not happen though, as far as I know. If it did, it would be repugnant.
A woman having an abortion is aborting her unborn child, not seeking medical treatment for herself so it is not exactly equivalent even then
If anyone from Republic were heckling the King at healthcare facilities he is going to in order to get medical treatment, eg heckling him while seeking cancer treatment, then that would be equivalent to heckling women seeking medical treatment.
That does not happen though, as far as I know. If it did, it would be repugnant.
A woman having an abortion is aborting her unborn child, not seeking medical treatment for herself so it is not exactly equivalent even then
That is medical treatment for herself, whether you like it or not.
Terminating her own pregnancy is a treatment for herself.
Is anyone heckling the King while he is getting medical treatment? Are they bollocks. Your whatabouterism is absurd.
It isn't, it is the ending of life of her unborn child, provided she could have survived perfectly healthily had she given birth to that child.
If you don't like Muslims vote Reform If you don't like MUSLIMS vote Reform If you don't like Muslims, don't like Muslims, if you don't like Muslims vote Reform
This is the song Farage is singing.
Politically its seems very stupid, those that don't already are voting Reform. But the flip side those Reform curious by factor of think Labour and Tory are crap but not big Tommy Ten Names fans, not going to help.
In the early days Farage made his name on the principle of rolling back the State. It was an argument he often used in his attacks on the EU -centralisation, control and state interference.
Nowadays most of his policies seem to involve the State getting even more involved in the private and public lives of individuals. I am not in any way religious. I am equally scornful of all religions. But the idea of banning people from simple public display of their faith, where it doesn't actually cause harm to others, is a huge leap too far for the State.
I can understand this politicially though. Particularly since COVID, the public seem much more supportive of why isn't the government doing x about y. He is also trying to fish in the pissed off working class traditional Labour voter who is much more of that option.
If you don't like Muslims vote Reform If you don't like MUSLIMS vote Reform If you don't like Muslims, don't like Muslims, if you don't like Muslims vote Reform
This is the song Farage is singing.
Are you going to convert?
At least he's not threatened to beat up shoplifters smaller than himself
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
The balance of rights between mother and unborn child is absolutely fine to debate in a sober and rational way. Bringing unreachable deities whose views we claim to know into the debate is unhelpful.
This allows me to trot out one of my vasectomy stories. As my wife drove me away from the clinic, in loose fitting trousers, feeling distinctly sorry for myself, a large bunch of angry middle aged Christians started shouting abuse at her (it was a beautiful Spring day and the windows were down. I was momentarily puzzled, then furious. Clearly they were under the impression we'd been for an abortion. Despite my incapacity, I was quite clean to get out the car and kick off. First, to correct them, second and more importantly - how fucking dare some Christian talk to my wife like that - I may have been sore but I am quite a large bloke and have never felt it more urgent to dish out violent retribution to these ponces or at the very least tell them how little I cared for the views of their imaginary sky fairy. Thirdly - check what's going on in there before protesting so rudely you fucking idiots. And fourthly (this overlapped with secondly, on reflection) - if we had just had an abortion, it was a decision we would have come to soberly and sadly and for some good reason and it was no business of their imaginary friend.
Happily for all concerned, it took me a while to get past puzzle and shock, and my wife is less keen to seek trouble than I am, and by the time all this aligned in my head we were at least a mile away.
If Republic can send hecklers to scream at members of the royal family attending church or meeting crowds, anti abortion activists can send activists to pray and shout at those having an abortion.
Or you ban both as harassment. You have the same laws for right and left
Heckling public figures at their place of work, while they are working publicly, that they are paid to go to out of taxpayers money is not equivalent to heckling private citizens who are seeking private and confidential healthcare.
The King's place of work is Buckingham Palace, the Prince of Wales' Kensington Palace, not a cathedral or visiting a community group.
Abortions on the NHS are of course paid for from public money and indeed technically the royals are funded by crown estate and duchy profits not taxes so they are equivalent.
It is just pure political bias otherwise, so I say allow the anti abortion hecklers as long as Republic are allowed to heckle or ban both as harassment!
The King's place of work is any place he goes to in a professional capacity while working. Work and healthcare are completely different and not equivalent.
Your argument is like suggesting heckling Jimmy Carr while he is touring a venue is not doing so at his place of work as it is not where he is always based.
Preposterous.
The King's place of work is his office, vising a community group as head of state is not a political act in any way even of a constitutional monarch and is just harassment
His place of work is wherever he is working. If he is visiting a community group as head of state he is doing that in an official capacity, so that is where he is working at that time.
Just as if Jimmy Carr visits an arena as a comedian to perform, he is doing so in an official capacity.
Seeking cancer treatment as an individual who needs medical treatment is completely different to official engagements. If anyone is heckling that, they are sick.
I don’t much like seeing mass Islamic prayer in Trafalgar Square. Would feel the same way about some mass Jewish ritual, a large Catholic Mass, or some irritating evangelical Christian sect.
Wouldn’t mind a big morris-dancing thing.
If we are going to start banning things I would start with fucking Morris Dancing.
If anyone from Republic were heckling the King at healthcare facilities he is going to in order to get medical treatment, eg heckling him while seeking cancer treatment, then that would be equivalent to heckling women seeking medical treatment.
That does not happen though, as far as I know. If it did, it would be repugnant.
A woman having an abortion is aborting her unborn child, not seeking medical treatment for herself so it is not exactly equivalent even then
At some poiint perhaps you should realise you have been given several yards of rope now and have more than enough to hang yourself many times over. You are really not doing your image or your arguments any good here.
If anyone from Republic were heckling the King at healthcare facilities he is going to in order to get medical treatment, eg heckling him while seeking cancer treatment, then that would be equivalent to heckling women seeking medical treatment.
That does not happen though, as far as I know. If it did, it would be repugnant.
A woman having an abortion is aborting her unborn child, not seeking medical treatment for herself so it is not exactly equivalent even then
At some poiint perhaps you should realise you have been given several yards of rope now and have more than enough to hang yourself many times over. You are really not doing your image or your arguments any good here.
You and Bart are fanatical libertarians, why on earth should I care what your image of me and my argument is on this issue?
If anyone from Republic were heckling the King at healthcare facilities he is going to in order to get medical treatment, eg heckling him while seeking cancer treatment, then that would be equivalent to heckling women seeking medical treatment.
That does not happen though, as far as I know. If it did, it would be repugnant.
A woman having an abortion is aborting her unborn child, not seeking medical treatment for herself so it is not exactly equivalent even then
If anyone from Republic were heckling the King at healthcare facilities he is going to in order to get medical treatment, eg heckling him while seeking cancer treatment, then that would be equivalent to heckling women seeking medical treatment.
That does not happen though, as far as I know. If it did, it would be repugnant.
A woman having an abortion is aborting her unborn child, not seeking medical treatment for herself so it is not exactly equivalent even then
That is medical treatment for herself, whether you like it or not.
Terminating her own pregnancy is a treatment for herself.
Is anyone heckling the King while he is getting medical treatment? Are they bollocks. Your whatabouterism is absurd.
It isn't, it is the ending of life of her unborn child, provided she could have survived perfectly healthily had she given birth to that child.
All women can die from pregnancy, there is always a risk. It has massive medical consequences for the woman to be pregnant. That is why eg so much in life (even things like rides at Alton Towers) advise against if pregnant.
Whatever your opinions about the viability or otherwise of a foetus, an abortion is undeniably absolutely a medical treatment for the woman in question.
Heckling medical treatments is wrong, whether that be cancer or pregnancy related.
If you don't like Muslims vote Reform If you don't like MUSLIMS vote Reform If you don't like Muslims, don't like Muslims, if you don't like Muslims vote Reform
This is the song Farage is singing.
Politically its seems very stupid, those that don't already are voting Reform. But the flip side those Reform curious by factor of think Labour and Tory are crap but not big Tommy Ten Names fans, not going to help.
Maybe but he'll have thought about it. His essential challenge is to get the racist vote plus the lion's share of pissed off roll-the-dicers. That would likely see him into Downing St. With this he's telegraphing to the first group that he's their man (so don't bother looking at Rupert Lowe or anyone else) in a way that (he hopes) doesn't trigger "oh shit Farage is a racist" alarm bells amongst too many of the second group.
Not that I am a Farage fan, but seems like the better way to win both is continued focus on immigration, especially illegal immigration via small boats, and stuff like 'uman rights met scumbag didn't get deported. There are a sizable proportion of people who think immigration is too high and that the system has abused that aren't on Tommy Ten Name rallies.
It depends how big the 'proper' racist vote is. I think (and Farage clearly does too) that it's enough to make a real difference if he can secure it. If he loses those people to (eg) Restore his path to power becomes far more challenging.
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
The balance of rights between mother and unborn child is absolutely fine to debate in a sober and rational way. Bringing unreachable deities whose views we claim to know into the debate is unhelpful.
This allows me to trot out one of my vasectomy stories. As my wife drove me away from the clinic, in loose fitting trousers, feeling distinctly sorry for myself, a large bunch of angry middle aged Christians started shouting abuse at her (it was a beautiful Spring day and the windows were down. I was momentarily puzzled, then furious. Clearly they were under the impression we'd been for an abortion. Despite my incapacity, I was quite clean to get out the car and kick off. First, to correct them, second and more importantly - how fucking dare some Christian talk to my wife like that - I may have been sore but I am quite a large bloke and have never felt it more urgent to dish out violent retribution to these ponces or at the very least tell them how little I cared for the views of their imaginary sky fairy. Thirdly - check what's going on in there before protesting so rudely you fucking idiots. And fourthly (this overlapped with secondly, on reflection) - if we had just had an abortion, it was a decision we would have come to soberly and sadly and for some good reason and it was no business of their imaginary friend.
Happily for all concerned, it took me a while to get past puzzle and shock, and my wife is less keen to seek trouble than I am, and by the time all this aligned in my head we were at least a mile away.
If Republic can send hecklers to scream at members of the royal family attending church or meeting crowds, anti abortion activists can send activists to pray and shout at those having an abortion.
Or you ban both as harassment. You have the same laws for right and left
It’s not right and left. There’s no equivalence. No one WANTS to be at an abortion clinic. Deciding to have an abortion is (for obvious reasons I’ve no personal experience of it) usually a traumatic, once in a lifetime, decision to make for a variety of reasons. Shouting at someone in those circumstances adds trauma on trauma.
That’s not equivalent to shouting at a member of the Royal Family. It’s not even close.
A very disappointing post even by this site’s standards.
Silently praying is also apparently not allowed.
"Hey, you know your post about screaming and heckling, why didn't you consider silent prayer? WHATABOUT the silent prayer!!!!"
Ha ha. What a prick. Completely unenforceable in any case. How do you prove that an assembly constitutes prayer or that the participants are Muslims? If Farage so wrecked our human rights law that this kind of thing became enforceable we would all be fucked, Muslim or otherwise.
If we can ban prayer outside abortion clinics then it can’t be beyond the wit of legislators.
Oh dear, we really are parotting braindead far right talking points today. You can ban protests in specific places, sure. So you could ban anyone from Trafalgar Square. The ban on "prayer" outside abortion clinics is a ban on any gathering designed to intimidate users of abortion clinics. It would apply to Muslims praying, Christians praying or atheists protesting without prayer. If the abortion clinic law attempted to ban Christian prayer specifically it would be laughed out of court and rightly so.
Funny that out of all the rich variety of moralising, oppressive. cultish religions apparently waiting to destroy Britishness that it’s the Christers that are hanging about in groups to bully women at potentially one of the worst moments of their lives.
And the unborn child is irrelevant I suppose? Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life, it is not just conservative Christian evangelicals and the Roman Catholic church anti
Wikipedia says...
In the 47 countries of the world with Muslim-majority populations, access to abortion varies greatly. In many, abortion is allowed when the mother's life is at risk.[6] In 18 countries, including Iraq, Egypt, and Indonesia, this is the only circumstance where abortion is permitted. In another ten countries, it is allowed on request. Mauritania, however, prohibits abortion under any circumstance.[7] In others,[which?] abortion is permitted under certain circumstances besides preserving the mother's life, such as safeguarding her mental health, cases of fetal impairment, incest or rape, and social or economic reasons.
So, you're wrong. Most Muslim majority nations have more liberal abortion laws than that.
So I am right, only in less than a quarter of Muslim nations is abortion allowed on request up to gestational limit as in most western nations and in most Muslim nations abortion is only allowed in the case of risk to a woman's life or health or fetal impairment (Saudi also allows it in the case of rape) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law
That’s not what you said previously. You said, “Most Muslim majority nations ban abortion of course except in the case of a risk to a woman's life”, whereas that’s only true for 18/47 countries (plus Mauritania’s complete ban takes us to 19/47 countries).
Abortion is not allowed on request in many western nations. It isn’t in the UK or Germany or large parts of the US, for example.
Wrong, it is in the UK and Germany up to gestational limit and still in most US states
Abortion is still regulated by the 1967 Abortion Act in the UK, which does not allow abortion on request. See Section 1 at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1967/87/section/1 (My dad helped write that, so I am familiar with what it says!)
I don’t much like seeing mass Islamic prayer in Trafalgar Square. Would feel the same way about some mass Jewish ritual, a large Catholic Mass, or some irritating evangelical Christian sect.
Wouldn’t mind a big morris-dancing thing.
If we are going to start banning things I would start with fucking Morris Dancing.
Comments
Can anyone seriously with a straight face say this country will be a nicer place to live in if they ever got to power ?
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/15/section/9
Offence of interference with access to or provision of abortion services
(1)It is an offence for a person who is within a safe access zone to do an act with the intent of, or reckless as to whether it has the effect of—
(a)influencing any person’s decision to access, provide or facilitate the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic,
(b)obstructing or impeding any person accessing, providing, or facilitating the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic, or
(c)causing harassment, alarm or distress to any person in connection with a decision to access, provide, or facilitate the provision of abortion services at an abortion clinic,
where the person mentioned in paragraph (a), (b) or (c) is within the safe access zone for the abortion clinic.
Reform will not look as dominant and all conquering aa May 25, of that i am 100% confident.
these are
- Influences any person’s decision to access, provide, or facilitate the provision of abortion services;
- Obstructs or Impedes any person accessing, providing or facilitating the provision of abortion services;
- Causes harassment, alarm or distress to any person in connection with a decision to access, provision or facilitate the provision of abortion services.
definitions in the guidelines include
"The law does not contain a specific list of behaviour which is banned, but is instead focused on its impact. This may include, but is not limited to:
- Handing out of leaflets with information related to abortion
- Display of abortion-related posters, graphic or otherwise
- Distribution of rosary beads or ‘miraculous medals’
- Use of microphones or loudspeakers linked to abortion provision or access
- Filming of clinic users, staff, or the clinic itself
- Prayer (including silent prayer) or singing outside the clinic entrance
- Leaving literature related to abortion outside or inside a clinic site
- Prolonged presence observing the clinic and its users.
As a rule of thumb – if a staff member or a patient feels they are being influenced or harassed about their decision to access or provide abortion, a crime may have been committed."
https://www.rcog.org.uk/guidance/browse-all-guidance/other-guidelines-and-reports/safe-access-zones-guidance
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/03/20/iran-war-latest-news-trump-netanyahu-ground-invasion/
2.1 The offence applies to any activity that is done with the intent of, or reckless as to whether it has the effect of:
(a) influencing a person’s decision to access, provide or facilitate the provision of abortion services;
(b) obstructing or impeding someone’s access to, or provision or facilitation of services at, an abortion clinic; or
(c) causing harassment, alarm or distress to anyone in connection with a decision to access, provide or facilitate the provision of services at the abortion clinic.
Interesting that Kemi has informed Mahmoud the conservatives will vote for Mahmoud's proposals
https://www.conservatives.com/news/rebuilding-trust-with-our-new-immigration-policy
In the 47 countries of the world with Muslim-majority populations, access to abortion varies greatly. In many, abortion is allowed when the mother's life is at risk.[6] In 18 countries, including Iraq, Egypt, and Indonesia, this is the only circumstance where abortion is permitted. In another ten countries, it is allowed on request. Mauritania, however, prohibits abortion under any circumstance.[7] In others,[which?] abortion is permitted under certain circumstances besides preserving the mother's life, such as safeguarding her mental health, cases of fetal impairment, incest or rape, and social or economic reasons.
So, you're wrong. Most Muslim majority nations have more liberal abortion laws than that.
"To save the Bishop's credit" forsooth.
Trump cannot have a clue on the use of his military, so it must be the case that it is his military who are just hopeless at gamimg this war
That is how it works in a liberal democracy. We don't outlaw religions; we outlaw doing stuff to harm others, and if religion is claimed as justification for doing that stuff, then we make it clear that is no justification.
Yet again, this was the guidance published during the consultation over this particular law:
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/abortion-clinic-safe-access-zones-non-statutory-guidance/non-statutory-guidance-on-abortion-clinic-safe-access-zones-accessible
..This guidance is designed to ensure that abortion service providers and everyone within Safe Access Zones are clear as to what is expected under the new law and that law enforcement agencies have a clear and consistent understanding around the enforcement of Safe Access Zones.
It is underpinned by key principles:
It is unacceptable for anyone to be harassed or distressed simply for exercising their legal right to access abortion services. The Government has always expected the police and local authorities to use their powers to deal with those who break the law.
The rights to gather, to express views and to manifest religious beliefs are a cornerstone of democracy in Britain and people should be free to gather and express their views, however uncomfortable they are to others, providing they do so within the law.
To be clear, this legislation only affects certain activities within 150 metres of a clinic or hospital. Not all protests are banned and neither does this amount to criminalising those who hold pro-life views who are in a Safe Access Zone. It does not affect people’s rights to gather or to express their views about abortion or to manifest their religious beliefs about abortion anywhere else.
It is vitally important that law enforcement agencies recognise the rights of both of those accessing or providing abortion services and protestors and, in enforcement, seek to balance their respective rights...
Seeking to specifically ban a particular religion from public prayer isn't even vaguely comparable to what section 9 of the Public Order Act does.
Half way there
As Frege interestingly pointed out, the Morning Star and the Evening Star are different terms meaning different things in our observation and experience. But as it happens they are in fact the same object, which is a shock when you first realise it.
(In just the same way what one group says is criminal damage to defence installations, another group says is helpful and lawful compliance with international and domestic law outlawing particular forms of military action.)
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/15/section/9
I think when the law above was passed, some people mentioned that banning things, on the basis that people felt offended by them, had a risk.
That some people are genuinely offended by things that shouldn't be banned.
Nick Bryant
@NickBryantNY
Quite the lede from The Economist: and quite the cover.
“Although President Donald Trump says he has “destroyed 100% of Iran’s Military Capability”, the 0% that remains is playing havoc with the global economy.” And now quite the cover:
@glcarlstrom
https://x.com/NickBryantNY/status/2034894714651160906
This allows me to trot out one of my vasectomy stories. As my wife drove me away from the clinic, in loose fitting trousers, feeling distinctly sorry for myself, a large bunch of angry middle aged Christians started shouting abuse at her (it was a beautiful Spring day and the windows were down. I was momentarily puzzled, then furious. Clearly they were under the impression we'd been for an abortion. Despite my incapacity, I was quite clean to get out the car and kick off. First, to correct them, second and more importantly - how fucking dare some Christian talk to my wife like that - I may have been sore but I am quite a large bloke and have never felt it more urgent to dish out violent retribution to these ponces or at the very least tell them how little I cared for the views of their imaginary sky fairy. Thirdly - check what's going on in there before protesting so rudely you fucking idiots. And fourthly (this overlapped with secondly, on reflection) - if we had just had an abortion, it was a decision we would have come to soberly and sadly and for some good reason and it was no business of their imaginary friend.
Happily for all concerned, it took me a while to get past puzzle and shock, and my wife is less keen to seek trouble than I am, and by the time all this aligned in my head we were at least a mile away.
Isn't democracy banned in many Muslim countries? 🤔
If you don't like MUSLIMS vote Reform
If you don't like Muslims, don't like Muslims, if you don't like Muslims vote Reform
This is the song Farage is singing.
https://x.com/wartranslated/status/2034955954945392983
Lukashenko says Minsk is preparing a "big deal" with Washington that goes beyond prisoner releases. Reopening the US embassy in Minsk and nuclear materials are also on the agenda.
Whether or not there is a god - another unknowable item - for lots of people the gods is where they ground the idea of objectivity. I am among them.
Hume, who believed none of this, is Trump's representative. 'I will feel it in my bones'. As Hume says, though he is wrong "Tis not unreasonable for me to prefer the destruction of the whole world to the scratching of my finger.”
Or you ban both as harassment. You have the same laws for right and left
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law
It gives Plod the ability to nick anyone that fails the attitude test.
- wearing a loud shirt in a built up area
- possession of an offensive wife
- stepping cracks in the pavement
Did you ear the one the other day? A young black gentleman addressed a black police officer, using the "N" word conversationally. Yes, they went all the way to court on that one. Due to the black police officer being offended.
HYUFD, I know this award must mean a lot to you. What are you going to do with the trophy? Display it at home?
Populism does work politically. It’s not taboo because it doesn’t work, it’s taboo because it does work but installs the wrong values, illiberal society less tolerant of minorities.
Tolerance of minority is what Democracy was invented for. It’s what the difference is between freedoms we all faily enjoy now, and the nature state of Dinosaurs and Cavemen and Cavewomen. And Cavetrans.
The hatred of Muslims seals up 99% of the Indian vote for Reform.
People who like Muslim mass prayers being banned from Albert Square, as seeing them all there is such obvious challenge to the values of our country as Kemi explained it, will switch from Conservative to Reform.
But those who dislike it won’t believe Farage and reform will actually do it. They will believe they can safely vote for Reform for change, but never get the Reform policies they don’t actually like.
That’s how politics works. The Open, Free, Fair and Liberal Nature of Liberal Democracy can be gamed by people who don’t believe in such things. That’s why the Nazi fascism of Farage and Reform is so politically taboo.
Abortion is not allowed on request in many western nations. It isn’t in the UK or Germany or large parts of the US, for example.
Kurt Barrow, the vice-president of oil at S&P Global Energy: “This is the largest supply disruption ever."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/03/19/russia-2022-picnic-compared-this-global-energy-disaster/
“Crom, I have never prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we lived, or why we died. No, all that matters is that two offered weak tea and acceptance to many. That's what's important! Vague niceness pleases you, Crom... so grant me one request. Grant me lots of platitudes! And if you do not listen, then to HELL with you!"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921
That’s not equivalent to shouting at a member of the Royal Family. It’s not even close.
A very disappointing post even by this site’s standards.
Because he’s hoping that while the racists Reform voters pick up on it, the none racist Reform voters don’t pick up the racist undertones as it’s slightly removed from outright racism
Abortions on the NHS are of course paid for from public money and by taxpayers and indeed technically the royals are funded by crown estate and duchy profits not taxes bar security so they are equivalent indeed arguably more public interest in the abortion havers unless a private clinic.
It is just pure political bias otherwise, so I say allow the anti abortion hecklers as long as Republic are allowed to heckle or ban both as harassment!
One of the main purposes of extending ILR to 10 years is to prevent access to benefits. It’s the whole point.
Utterly nuts Labour MPs opposing this.
‘ Excl: New analysis shows plans to impose the new 10-year settlement rules to migrants already in the UK will increase child poverty by 90,000.
Labour rebels have seized on the findings to argue that the policy conflicts with the party's pledge to reduce child poverty.
They are planning to force a symbolic vote in parliament to expose the scale of opposition to the plans on the Labour benches.’
https://x.com/matt_dathan/status/2034939759190065644?s=61
I haven’t been on PB for a couple of weeks.
Is it still the case that Big G, Casino etc are wailing that Britain isn’t sufficiently obedient to the United States?
Your argument is like suggesting heckling Jimmy Carr while he is touring a venue is not doing so at his place of work as it is not where he is always based.
Preposterous.
Nowadays most of his policies seem to involve the State getting even more involved in the private and public lives of individuals. I am not in any way religious. I am equally scornful of all religions. But the idea of banning people from simple public display of their faith, where it doesn't actually cause harm to others, is a huge leap too far for the State.
That does not happen though, as far as I know. If it did, it would be repugnant.
Would feel the same way about some mass Jewish ritual, a large Catholic Mass, or some irritating evangelical Christian sect.
Wouldn’t mind a big morris-dancing thing.
The framing you describe is not an honest description of what the law says, or the very narrow set of locations where it applies.
It is no kind of precedent for what Farage and the rest of the motley crew are proposing.
Terminating her own pregnancy is a treatment for herself.
Is anyone heckling the King while he is getting medical treatment? Are they bollocks. Your whatabouterism is absurd.
Perhaps we should just ban songs with words fragile flowers find traumatising.
Just as if Jimmy Carr visits an arena as a comedian to perform, he is doing so in an official capacity.
Seeking cancer treatment as an individual who needs medical treatment is completely different to official engagements. If anyone is heckling that, they are sick.
Whatever your opinions about the viability or otherwise of a foetus, an abortion is undeniably absolutely a medical treatment for the woman in question.
Heckling medical treatments is wrong, whether that be cancer or pregnancy related.
It's beyond fucking parody this place sometimes
The situation in Germany is complicated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Germany But it’s not simply abortion on demand.
These images show the moment officers focused on the suspect in Salford.
A man wearing a vest can be seen on the ground in Mandley Park, and with his hands on his head.
UPDATE: The MEN understands the man at the centre of the incident was believed to be wearing a weighted gym vest.
There is not currently believed to be any wider risk to the community, it is understood.