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Trying to bet in a stupid and irrational world – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,014
edited 7:02AM in General
Trying to bet in a stupid and irrational world – politicalbetting.com

During my lifetime whilst I might have disagreed with some of the the occupants of the White House I had no doubt they thought they were doing what they thought was right, I cannot say that about Donald Trump, this makes betting slightly complicated if you believe in rationality underpinning behaviour.

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Comments

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,414
    First like SKS to be sacked after LE
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,057
    I suspect the Iran war situation will develop and not necessarily to anyone's advantage.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,959

    First like SKS to be sacked after LE

    I am increasingly confident that he won't be, no matter how bad they are. The alternatives are worse and the Cabinet would be nervous about their jobs under a new leader as they were during the Burnham rumblings.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,520
    In the UK, we worry about replacing Churchill with a badger on a banknote. No such worries for Trump, who is just putting himself on a gold coin: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwywxvgynr2o
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,957
    Iran war causes cricket-ball shortage

    Dukes owner Dilip Jajodia laments ‘Gulf war nonsense’ as logjam in flights from south Asia prevents his product from returning to UK


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2026/03/19/english-cricket-hit-by-dukes-ball-shortage-iran-war/
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,183
    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,631
    DavidL said:

    First like SKS to be sacked after LE

    I am increasingly confident that he won't be, no matter how bad they are. The alternatives are worse and the Cabinet would be nervous about their jobs under a new leader as they were during the Burnham rumblings.
    As I understand it the cabinet do not decide it.

    A rival has to stand with the support of 20% of the PLP, which is 81 MPs I think, then Starmer decides whether to contest the challenge (nominations are not needed), then the rivals need 5% of CLPs to support and a number of affiliates.

    I expect that challenge in May.

    A leadership contest im midst of an international crisis is not unprecedented. We had one in May 1940 after all.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,508

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,183

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    On that we can completely agree.

    Do it, or don't do it.

    Din't half arse it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,770
    Those were absolute comedy demands by Tojo.

    Not only would he never got them without a total and utter defeat of Britain and the USA (up to and including a land invasion and occupation) I very much doubt Japan could have run and policed such a vast empire.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,987
    I'm fairly confident Mr Trump does what he thinks is right as well. Only that changes direction randomly and in an instant.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,794
    Another 1,610 Russian troops pushed through the meat grinder in Ukraine yesterday.

    That makes 5,760 lost in the past four days. In 4 days, Russia has lost 10% of America's killed in nearly 20 years of war in Vietnam.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,959
    edited 7:31AM
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    First like SKS to be sacked after LE

    I am increasingly confident that he won't be, no matter how bad they are. The alternatives are worse and the Cabinet would be nervous about their jobs under a new leader as they were during the Burnham rumblings.
    As I understand it the cabinet do not decide it.

    A rival has to stand with the support of 20% of the PLP, which is 81 MPs I think, then Starmer decides whether to contest the challenge (nominations are not needed), then the rivals need 5% of CLPs to support and a number of affiliates.

    I expect that challenge in May.

    A leadership contest im midst of an international crisis is not unprecedented. We had one in May 1940 after all.
    I agree that the Cabinet do not decide it but the fact that they all backed Starmer's blocking of Burnham was decisive. It would be daunting to take on not just the leader but the entire cabinet. I suspect if this is repeated getting the 81 will prove difficult.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,631

    Those were absolute comedy demands by Tojo.

    Not only would he never got them without a total and utter defeat of Britain and the USA (up to and including a land invasion and occupation) I very much doubt Japan could have run and policed such a vast empire.

    The Imperial Japanese Navy demands of New Caledonia, Fiji and Samoa seem quite modest in comparison!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,150
    Foxy said:

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    I blame the US electorate.

    They knew that Trump was a capricious, narcisstic, vengeful, vainglorious potential tyrant from his first term, but re-elected him anyway. Now the world has to live with the consequences.

    Now we know how the Romans must have felt under Caligula.
    BUT RAINBOW LANYARDS!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,794
    Back when Blair was warning we were under risk of weapons of mass destruction in 45 minutes, it was patently bollocks, Now, it is much closer to reality. The sharing of missile technology to Iran and North Korea, the risk of sharing nuclear technology from Pakistan now means our major cities or commercial infrastructure are threatened like never before.

    I look at Iran prepared to lash out at its neighbours with conventional high explosives and worry they would use nukes if they had them. The current war with Iran has been cack-handed, an unready US led into it by Bibi when negotiations had not been exhausted (indeed if Powell was right, were getting somewhere). It has served Israeli interests - more likely, Bibi's personal crusade to keep out of jail - at huge cost to world economies. It has poisoned international relationships, within the Gulf and with those still prepared to look to the US as a leader whose aims are true. Trump has been exposed to those who voted for him again in 2024 as a pompous fool, incapable of holding coherent thoughts in the same press conference.

    And yet, I still can't bring myself to condemn bombing Iran's means of producing a nuclear bomb.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,631

    Another 1,610 Russian troops pushed through the meat grinder in Ukraine yesterday.

    That makes 5,760 lost in the past four days. In 4 days, Russia has lost 10% of America's killed in nearly 20 years of war in Vietnam.

    I think those figures are for killed/serious wounded/POW rather than just dead.

    Even so, the slaughter is incredible. Putin could stop it at any time by simply withdrawing. Ukraine doesn't have that option.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,541

    Iran war causes cricket-ball shortage

    Dukes owner Dilip Jajodia laments ‘Gulf war nonsense’ as logjam in flights from south Asia prevents his product from returning to UK


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2026/03/19/english-cricket-hit-by-dukes-ball-shortage-iran-war/

    Oh, dear! How sad! Never mind!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,794
    Foxy said:

    Another 1,610 Russian troops pushed through the meat grinder in Ukraine yesterday.

    That makes 5,760 lost in the past four days. In 4 days, Russia has lost 10% of America's killed in nearly 20 years of war in Vietnam.

    I think those figures are for killed/serious wounded/POW rather than just dead.

    Even so, the slaughter is incredible. Putin could stop it at any time by simply withdrawing. Ukraine doesn't have that option.
    The proportion of dead has been rising significantly - there is a grisly record of the deaths by drone attack maintained by Ukraine. It has recently been proved that two thirds of casualties have been KIA. There is also a suggestion that the recent proportion of dead are even higher as the Russians made a push in fog, which didn't prevent the drones from proceeding with their lethal tasks.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,541
    You spelt "augur" wrong, @TheScreamingEagles.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,150
    Our new Lord and saviour, Temüjin.

    NOW - Netanyahu: "Jesus Christ has no advantage over Genghis Khan. Because if you are strong enough, ruthless enough, powerful enough, evil will overcome good."

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2034713271517794575?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • TazTaz Posts: 26,142
    Well Iran is still striking out. This time at Kuwait.

    Limited fire, no injuries.

    ‘ JUST IN: 🇮🇷🇰🇼 Iran strikes Mina Al-Ahmadi oil refinery in Kuwait.’

    https://x.com/bricsinfo/status/2034861995003191402?s=61

    Well done Trump and Bibi, playing a blinder here.
  • TazTaz Posts: 26,142
    Foxy said:

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    I blame the US electorate.

    They knew that Trump was a capricious, narcisstic, vengeful, vainglorious potential tyrant from his first term, but re-elected him anyway. Now the world has to live with the consequences.

    Now we know how the Romans must have felt under Caligula.
    The Democrats are at fault,here. As is Biden.

    For contriving to put forward Kamala Harris. Inept as a candidate during the primaries that saw Biden come to get the nomination. What did they expect
  • eekeek Posts: 32,954

    Back when Blair was warning we were under risk of weapons of mass destruction in 45 minutes, it was patently bollocks, Now, it is much closer to reality. The sharing of missile technology to Iran and North Korea, the risk of sharing nuclear technology from Pakistan now means our major cities or commercial infrastructure are threatened like never before.

    I look at Iran prepared to lash out at its neighbours with conventional high explosives and worry they would use nukes if they had them. The current war with Iran has been cack-handed, an unready US led into it by Bibi when negotiations had not been exhausted (indeed if Powell was right, were getting somewhere). It has served Israeli interests - more likely, Bibi's personal crusade to keep out of jail - at huge cost to world economies. It has poisoned international relationships, within the Gulf and with those still prepared to look to the US as a leader whose aims are true. Trump has been exposed to those who voted for him again in 2024 as a pompous fool, incapable of holding coherent thoughts in the same press conference.

    And yet, I still can't bring myself to condemn bombing Iran's means of producing a nuclear bomb.

    Again - as I pointed out yesterday the fact talks were getting somewhere is the reason why Israel attacked when they did. Had the talks been finished Israel’s justification to attack would have gone.

    This is also why Bolton is both correct and wrong. He’s correct in that the model would show no oil from Iran getting through but there are currently no ships in a position to stop Iran shipments from leaving the straits
  • TazTaz Posts: 26,142

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    What’s your solution ? Destroy the global economy to keep Bibi out of jail ? Might is right ?

    Israel and the USA are getting a bloody nose here and not getting their own way.

    If you believe what the CEO of Rheinmetall was saying recently they will be running out of key munitions shortly.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,794

    Our new Lord and saviour, Temüjin.

    NOW - Netanyahu: "Jesus Christ has no advantage over Genghis Khan. Because if you are strong enough, ruthless enough, powerful enough, evil will overcome good."

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2034713271517794575?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Strong enough, ruthless enough, powerful enough with the only nukes in the region?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,341
    The latest master plan from the WH is to ease sanctions on Iranian oil to help lower the global price thereby hurting Iran. I would have thought that Iran still being able to ship oil out at all would be an embarrassment for the US.

    On Thursday, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said the administration will likely lift sanctions on Iranian oil that is already at sea in the coming days, freeing up an estimated 140 million barrels.

    “That’s about 10 days to two weeks of supply that the Iranians had been pushing out that would have all gone to China,” he told Fox Business’s Maria Bartiromo. “In essence, we will be using the Iranian barrels against the Iranians to keep the price down for the next 10 or 14 days as we continue this campaign.”

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,427
    ..

    Our new Lord and saviour, Temüjin.

    NOW - Netanyahu: "Jesus Christ has no advantage over Genghis Khan. Because if you are strong enough, ruthless enough, powerful enough, evil will overcome good."

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2034713271517794575?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Where's a smiting when you need one?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,772
    Eabhal said:

    Excellent post from DavidL on the last thread, if anyone missed it.

    Good morning

    Yes it was and good to read
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,426

    In the UK, we worry about replacing Churchill with a badger on a banknote. No such worries for Trump, who is just putting himself on a gold coin: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwywxvgynr2o

    Sadly, the BBC News overnight intern responsible for mindlessly copying US media has used the American spelling in the headline: "24-karat gold".
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,188
    Political betting vanilla
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 960

    Our new Lord and saviour, Temüjin.

    NOW - Netanyahu: "Jesus Christ has no advantage over Genghis Khan. Because if you are strong enough, ruthless enough, powerful enough, evil will overcome good."

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2034713271517794575?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Big 'just as a thousand years ago the Huns under their king Attila made a name for themselves, one that even today makes them seem mighty in history and legend, so may the name Germany be affirmed by you in such a way in China that no Chinese will ever again dare to look cross-eyed at a German' energy there.

    Welcome back, Kaiser Bill II
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,150
    Further to JJ’s recent piece about those on peril on the sea, an unexamined part of the current clusterfuck. Eight times as many ships trapped in the Gulf as there were during the Suez blockage, and they’re running out of water.

    https://x.com/sungleeiq/status/2034821036500217922?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,901
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    I blame the US electorate.

    They knew that Trump was a capricious, narcisstic, vengeful, vainglorious potential tyrant from his first term, but re-elected him anyway. Now the world has to live with the consequences.

    Now we know how the Romans must have felt under Caligula.
    The Democrats are at fault,here. As is Biden.

    For contriving to put forward Kamala Harris. Inept as a candidate during the primaries that saw Biden come to get the nomination. What did they expect
    Nope. It is purely the fault of those that voted for Trump (and his MAGA gimps in the Senate and House).

    Harris was not a perfect candidate (who is?) but she was merely useless within the normal range. Trump is off the scale bad.
    Remember, the first rule of populism is that It's Somebody Else's Fault.

    Democrats absolutely should be asking themselves why they couldn't find a better candidate than Harris. It's not obvious that the Democratic Party top table had anyone better, but in a country the size of the USA, there must have been someone. (The nature of the primary process, and the megabucks involved, are a massive issue.)

    But the same could be said of the Republicans, only more so. They have let themselves be swallowed whole by DJT.

    And as for voters... There's a line where a candidate's contempt for democracy means that their opponent is preferable, no matter how flawed. Trump crossed that line in 2021, and there's not much excuse for ignoring that.

    No, you can't control someone like that.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,892
    Presumably while I DON’T expect Trump to face the same fate as Tojo and Japan…

    Otherwise I demand to know when you are next on holiday!
  • eekeek Posts: 32,954

    Presumably while I DON’T expect Trump to face the same fate as Tojo and Japan…

    Otherwise I demand to know when you are next on holiday!

    TSE has already said 6 weeks covering the World Cup and some time afterwards.

    And you can easily see ICE doing something stupid during the World Cup
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,360
    Taz said:

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    What’s your solution ? Destroy the global economy to keep Bibi out of jail ? Might is right ?

    Israel and the USA are getting a bloody nose here and not getting their own way.

    If you believe what the CEO of Rheinmetall was saying recently they will be running out of key munitions shortly.
    Rheinmetall has no massive insight into US arms stocks or manufacturing. (Its US sales were under $1bn last year.)

    The US has enough bombs to keep this up for a long time, and have complete air superiority.

    If they lack anything, it is air defence missiles, particularly against ballistic weapons.
    They've still got tens if thousands of cheap anti-drone missiles (which were diverted from being sent to Ukraine last year).

    I wouldn't rely on the war petering out before enormous damage could be done to gas production.
    (Something which would precipitate a global depression, whose effects would persist for years.)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,957

    Presumably while I DON’T expect Trump to face the same fate as Tojo and Japan…

    Otherwise I demand to know when you are next on holiday!

    Long weekend break start of May then I'm on holiday from June 26th through to 27th of July, the first two weeks of that break will be spent at home watching the knockout stages of the world cup.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,150
    nico67 said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    I blame the US electorate.

    They knew that Trump was a capricious, narcisstic, vengeful, vainglorious potential tyrant from his first term, but re-elected him anyway. Now the world has to live with the consequences.

    Now we know how the Romans must have felt under Caligula.
    The Democrats are at fault,here. As is Biden.

    For contriving to put forward Kamala Harris. Inept as a candidate during the primaries that saw Biden come to get the nomination. What did they expect
    Nope. It is purely the fault of those that voted for Trump (and his MAGA gimps in the Senate and House).

    Harris was not a perfect candidate (who is?) but she was merely useless within the normal range. Trump is off the scale bad.
    I really liked Harris and any sane country would have voted for her .

    We certainly wouldn’t be in this position now if she had won . I’m afraid this blaming on the Dems for Trump winning is a way to ignore the darker truth . A large section of US voters are racist bigots who get off on cruelty being dished out to others . Only when that landed on their door did they suddenly start finding their buyers remorse .
    To adapt the old ‘we get the politicians we deserve’ saw, voters are getting the politics they openly want. US voters wanted the performative cruelty of ICE, Israelis want Palestinian civilians to be blown up and shot, Reform voters want to get back to the good old days when they can be openly racist. That there’s a price to be paid for all that is only now beginning to dawn on some of them.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,751
    FTSE 100 enjoying a bit of a dead cat bounce this morning.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,751

    Presumably while I DON’T expect Trump to face the same fate as Tojo and Japan…

    Otherwise I demand to know when you are next on holiday!

    Long weekend break start of May then I'm on holiday from June 26th through to 27th of July, the first two weeks of that break will be spent at home watching the knockout stages of the world cup.
    You appear to have a very generous holiday entitlement.

    Are you sure you don't work in the Civil Service?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,360

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    I blame the US electorate.

    They knew that Trump was a capricious, narcisstic, vengeful, vainglorious potential tyrant from his first term, but re-elected him anyway. Now the world has to live with the consequences.

    Now we know how the Romans must have felt under Caligula.
    The Democrats are at fault,here. As is Biden.

    For contriving to put forward Kamala Harris. Inept as a candidate during the primaries that saw Biden come to get the nomination. What did they expect
    Nope. It is purely the fault of those that voted for Trump (and his MAGA gimps in the Senate and House).

    Harris was not a perfect candidate (who is?) but she was merely useless within the normal range. Trump is off the scale bad.
    Remember, the first rule of populism is that It's Somebody Else's Fault.

    Democrats absolutely should be asking themselves why they couldn't find a better candidate than Harris. It's not obvious that the Democratic Party top table had anyone better, but in a country the size of the USA, there must have been someone. (The nature of the primary process, and the megabucks involved, are a massive issue.)

    But the same could be said of the Republicans, only more so. They have let themselves be swallowed whole by DJT.

    And as for voters... There's a line where a candidate's contempt for democracy means that their opponent is preferable, no matter how flawed. Trump crossed that line in 2021, and there's not much excuse for ignoring that.

    No, you can't control someone like that.
    It's pretty stupid to blame the Democrats.
    You cannot excuse those who elected the worst President in US history - who had already proven his complete unsuitability for office - on the basis that they selected an average candidate.

    No political party is ever perfect. Demanding that or else you'll vote for an absurdity is in itself absurd.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,794

    In the UK, we worry about replacing Churchill with a badger on a banknote. No such worries for Trump, who is just putting himself on a gold coin: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwywxvgynr2o

    Sadly, the BBC News overnight intern responsible for mindlessly copying US media has used the American spelling in the headline: "24-karat gold".
    Could have been 24-carrot....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,957

    Presumably while I DON’T expect Trump to face the same fate as Tojo and Japan…

    Otherwise I demand to know when you are next on holiday!

    Long weekend break start of May then I'm on holiday from June 26th through to 27th of July, the first two weeks of that break will be spent at home watching the knockout stages of the world cup.
    You appear to have a very generous holiday entitlement.

    Are you sure you don't work in the Civil Service?
    The nature of my job is uneven, nothing much happens for weeks, then somebody screws up and I have to put in 100 hour weeks, so I get TOIL.

    Plus last year I didn't take my full holiday entitlement, so part of it rolled into this year.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,360

    It is heartening that Jewish people and organisations are calling out Nick Timothy and Kemi Badenoch for what they are.

    Attorney general asks if Kemi Badenoch would object to Jewish public prayer

    Exclusive: Richard Hermer, who is Jewish, says Tory leader and shadow minister seem ‘to only have an issue with Muslim events


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/20/attorney-general-richard-hermer-kemi-badenoch-public-prayer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    and

    VOICE OF THE JEWISH NEWS: In defence of praying during Iftar in Trafalgar Square

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/voice-of-the-jewish-news-in-defence-of-praying-during-iftar-in-trafalgar-square/

    As noted on the last thread, Badenoch is a fool.

    This debate which Nick is having is not about freedom of religion. It is about how religion is expressed in a shared public space, and whether those expressions fit within the norms of a British culture.

    Of course it is about that.
    Denying it is to argue with reality.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,680
    Good morning, everyone.

    If Iran and the USA both finish the group stage as runners-up they'll meet in the first knockout round in the World Cup.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,311

    FTSE 100 enjoying a bit of a dead cat bounce this morning.

    OIl,has eased back slightly overnight as well. Presumably the comments about Hormuz and the possibility of a negotiated re-opening have helped sentiment.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,957

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Iran and the USA both finish the group stage as runners-up they'll meet in the first knockout round in the World Cup.

    Honduras v El Salvador: The football match that kicked off a war

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-48673853
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,959
    Foxy said:

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    I blame the US electorate.

    They knew that Trump was a capricious, narcisstic, vengeful, vainglorious potential tyrant from his first term, but re-elected him anyway. Now the world has to live with the consequences.

    Now we know how the Romans must have felt under Caligula.
    Very few if any of Trump’s appointments have the intelligence and discernment of Incitatus.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,901
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    I blame the US electorate.

    They knew that Trump was a capricious, narcisstic, vengeful, vainglorious potential tyrant from his first term, but re-elected him anyway. Now the world has to live with the consequences.

    Now we know how the Romans must have felt under Caligula.
    The Democrats are at fault,here. As is Biden.

    For contriving to put forward Kamala Harris. Inept as a candidate during the primaries that saw Biden come to get the nomination. What did they expect
    Nope. It is purely the fault of those that voted for Trump (and his MAGA gimps in the Senate and House).

    Harris was not a perfect candidate (who is?) but she was merely useless within the normal range. Trump is off the scale bad.
    Remember, the first rule of populism is that It's Somebody Else's Fault.

    Democrats absolutely should be asking themselves why they couldn't find a better candidate than Harris. It's not obvious that the Democratic Party top table had anyone better, but in a country the size of the USA, there must have been someone. (The nature of the primary process, and the megabucks involved, are a massive issue.)

    But the same could be said of the Republicans, only more so. They have let themselves be swallowed whole by DJT.

    And as for voters... There's a line where a candidate's contempt for democracy means that their opponent is preferable, no matter how flawed. Trump crossed that line in 2021, and there's not much excuse for ignoring that.

    No, you can't control someone like that.
    It's pretty stupid to blame the Democrats.
    You cannot excuse those who elected the worst President in US history - who had already proven his complete unsuitability for office - on the basis that they selected an average candidate.

    No political party is ever perfect. Demanding that or else you'll vote for an absurdity is in itself absurd.
    Blaming others is usually unwise, even when it's got a lot of truth about it.

    When the history comes to be written, the blame should attach to Trump, his supporters and apologists. And the moderate right has a terrible record around the world of policing the line between right and wrong.

    But all the Dems can do is reflect and try to do better next time. That needn't (and probably doesn't) Trump Lite.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,012
    Eabhal said:

    Excellent post from DavidL on the last thread, if anyone missed it.

    you could have posted a copy
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,360
    Marrying the thread topic with the religion debate...

    Pete Hegseth just declared he only wants Christian prayers for this war. No Jewish prayers. No Muslim prayers. He even dictates how you should pray. This is the Secretary of Defense acting like a religious dictator. Absolute insanity.
    https://x.com/FurkanGozukara/status/2034842566995190087
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,892
    eek said:

    Presumably while I DON’T expect Trump to face the same fate as Tojo and Japan…

    Otherwise I demand to know when you are next on holiday!

    TSE has already said 6 weeks covering the World Cup and some time afterwards.

    And you can easily see ICE doing something stupid during the World Cup
    You rather miss the point.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,959

    Further to JJ’s recent piece about those on peril on the sea, an unexamined part of the current clusterfuck. Eight times as many ships trapped in the Gulf as there were during the Suez blockage, and they’re running out of water.

    https://x.com/sungleeiq/status/2034821036500217922?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Water water everywhere,
    The very boards did shrink,
    Water, water everywhere,
    But not a drop to drink.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,548

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Iran and the USA both finish the group stage as runners-up they'll meet in the first knockout round in the World Cup.

    If Infantino wasn't firmly wedged in Trump's sphincter you'd have thought the perfectly reasonable request to move the games to a neutral venue from the country that has just started a war with you would have been agreed.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,596
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    First like SKS to be sacked after LE

    I am increasingly confident that he won't be, no matter how bad they are. The alternatives are worse and the Cabinet would be nervous about their jobs under a new leader as they were during the Burnham rumblings.
    As I understand it the cabinet do not decide it.

    A rival has to stand with the support of 20% of the PLP, which is 81 MPs I think, then Starmer decides whether to contest the challenge (nominations are not needed), then the rivals need 5% of CLPs to support and a number of affiliates.

    I expect that challenge in May.

    A leadership contest im midst of an international crisis is not unprecedented. We had one in May 1940 after all.
    I agree that the Cabinet do not decide it but the fact that they all backed Starmer's blocking of Burnham was decisive. It would be daunting to take on not just the leader but the entire cabinet. I suspect if this is repeated getting the 81 will prove difficult.
    With the exception of the usual hard core left MP's and a couple of trotskyite Union Leaders there will be NO APPETITE in the PLP for a Leadership Challenge whilst Trump and Netanyahu are creating havoc

    (1) Because there are inherently sensible voices who actually do put Country before Politics

    (2) Because Starmer is head and shuolder the best option (in any Party) we have on the Global Stage right now

    (3) Because (2) means that the longer he remains he nullifies the idiotic Party Leaders to his Right and Left and maintains Labour Polling above what it might otherwise be.

    (4) Because it gives candidates time to be seen to be supportive at a time of global crisis and not opportunists like Farage , Badenoch , Polanski and to a degree Davey

    I cannot see a Leadership challenge in 2026 unless the ME crisis is resolved a lot quicker than we all anticipate.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,959

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Iran and the USA both finish the group stage as runners-up they'll meet in the first knockout round in the World Cup.

    Iran are not going
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,090
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    I blame the US electorate.

    They knew that Trump was a capricious, narcisstic, vengeful, vainglorious potential tyrant from his first term, but re-elected him anyway. Now the world has to live with the consequences.

    Now we know how the Romans must have felt under Caligula.
    The Democrats are at fault,here. As is Biden.

    For contriving to put forward Kamala Harris. Inept as a candidate during the primaries that saw Biden come to get the nomination. What did they expect
    Nope. It is purely the fault of those that voted for Trump (and his MAGA gimps in the Senate and House).

    Harris was not a perfect candidate (who is?) but she was merely useless within the normal range. Trump is off the scale bad.
    Remember, the first rule of populism is that It's Somebody Else's Fault.

    Democrats absolutely should be asking themselves why they couldn't find a better candidate than Harris. It's not obvious that the Democratic Party top table had anyone better, but in a country the size of the USA, there must have been someone. (The nature of the primary process, and the megabucks involved, are a massive issue.)

    But the same could be said of the Republicans, only more so. They have let themselves be swallowed whole by DJT.

    And as for voters... There's a line where a candidate's contempt for democracy means that their opponent is preferable, no matter how flawed. Trump crossed that line in 2021, and there's not much excuse for ignoring that.

    No, you can't control someone like that.
    It's pretty stupid to blame the Democrats.
    You cannot excuse those who elected the worst President in US history - who had already proven his complete unsuitability for office - on the basis that they selected an average candidate.

    No political party is ever perfect. Demanding that or else you'll vote for an absurdity is in itself absurd.
    There is also the fact that great candidates, electorally or as leaders, are near generational events. There is not some great candidate factory churning out Democrats who would be so much better than Harris and not flawed in many other ways - look at how many of the alternatives mooted here for both the UK and US have gone on to lesser things.

    Perhaps we're talking Obama, Clinton, Reagan, JFK in American folklore, perhaps Blair, Thatcher, Macmillan in the UK (other lists are available), but whoever you put in, there are several Kemi's and Keir's for every Maggie and Tone.

    The irony is that, terrible and transparent to many of us though he is, Trump has been a massively effective campaigner.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,957
    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Iran and the USA both finish the group stage as runners-up they'll meet in the first knockout round in the World Cup.

    Iran are not going
    They've said they willgo if their matches are in Mexico and Canada.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,150
    edited 8:35AM
    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Iran and the USA both finish the group stage as runners-up they'll meet in the first knockout round in the World Cup.

    Iran are not going
    I think they’re negotiating with FIFA to see if they can play their matches in Mexico. FIFA will of course go along with whatever the winner of their peace prize commands.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,426
    Nigelb said:

    It is heartening that Jewish people and organisations are calling out Nick Timothy and Kemi Badenoch for what they are.

    Attorney general asks if Kemi Badenoch would object to Jewish public prayer

    Exclusive: Richard Hermer, who is Jewish, says Tory leader and shadow minister seem ‘to only have an issue with Muslim events


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/20/attorney-general-richard-hermer-kemi-badenoch-public-prayer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    and

    VOICE OF THE JEWISH NEWS: In defence of praying during Iftar in Trafalgar Square

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/voice-of-the-jewish-news-in-defence-of-praying-during-iftar-in-trafalgar-square/

    As noted on the last thread, Badenoch is a fool.

    This debate which Nick is having is not about freedom of religion. It is about how religion is expressed in a shared public space, and whether those expressions fit within the norms of a British culture.

    Of course it is about that.
    Denying it is to argue with reality.
    Otoh, we do restrict politically-motivated Christians praying outside abortion clinics, so there's that.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,012
    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Iran and the USA both finish the group stage as runners-up they'll meet in the first knockout round in the World Cup.

    Iran are not going
    way it is going no-one will be going
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,959
    Brixian59 said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    First like SKS to be sacked after LE

    I am increasingly confident that he won't be, no matter how bad they are. The alternatives are worse and the Cabinet would be nervous about their jobs under a new leader as they were during the Burnham rumblings.
    As I understand it the cabinet do not decide it.

    A rival has to stand with the support of 20% of the PLP, which is 81 MPs I think, then Starmer decides whether to contest the challenge (nominations are not needed), then the rivals need 5% of CLPs to support and a number of affiliates.

    I expect that challenge in May.

    A leadership contest im midst of an international crisis is not unprecedented. We had one in May 1940 after all.
    I agree that the Cabinet do not decide it but the fact that they all backed Starmer's blocking of Burnham was decisive. It would be daunting to take on not just the leader but the entire cabinet. I suspect if this is repeated getting the 81 will prove difficult.
    With the exception of the usual hard core left MP's and a couple of trotskyite Union Leaders there will be NO APPETITE in the PLP for a Leadership Challenge whilst Trump and Netanyahu are creating havoc

    (1) Because there are inherently sensible voices who actually do put Country before Politics

    (2) Because Starmer is head and shuolder the best option (in any Party) we have on the Global Stage right now

    (3) Because (2) means that the longer he remains he nullifies the idiotic Party Leaders to his Right and Left and maintains Labour Polling above what it might otherwise be.

    (4) Because it gives candidates time to be seen to be supportive at a time of global crisis and not opportunists like Farage , Badenoch , Polanski and to a degree Davey

    I cannot see a Leadership challenge in 2026 unless the ME crisis is resolved a lot quicker than we all anticipate.
    Oh lord. We agree twice in a morning. Surely the end of times approaches.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,150
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    I blame the US electorate.

    They knew that Trump was a capricious, narcisstic, vengeful, vainglorious potential tyrant from his first term, but re-elected him anyway. Now the world has to live with the consequences.

    Now we know how the Romans must have felt under Caligula.
    Very few if any of Trump’s appointments have the intelligence and discernment of Incitatus.
    Perhaps the most Caligula like action by Trump is the deliberate humiliation of Rubio and Vance by making them wear oversized shoes.

    https://bsky.app/profile/jaimi.bsky.social/post/3mh2drdm7u22u

    The complete debasement of those guys to accept that humiliation too.

    The ironic thing is that Florsheim used to be a quality made in the USA brand, now they’re cheap made in China crap.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,735
    Incidentally, when the Japanese were running out of everything at the end of WWII. Including cities… they tried “negotiating a surrender”.

    Thing like asking the Russians for an alliance (this was just before the Russian attack) - the offer was that in return for protecting Japan at that point (and helping to keep her empire), Japan would join with Russia in an attack on the US etc in a new war, 10 years later.

    Some diplomats tried to come up with deals like - Japan isn’t occupied, military left alone, all conquests remain in Japanese hands. Yes, in August 1945, they thought they could keep the conquests. Well, the diplomats said that they had to get the deal parts the military.

    All this was being read in Washington, via ULTRA. A chunk of the reason for not stopping the Manhattan Project “train” was the clear evidence that the Japanese government hadn’t worked out that they had lost the war.
  • TazTaz Posts: 26,142
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    I blame the US electorate.

    They knew that Trump was a capricious, narcisstic, vengeful, vainglorious potential tyrant from his first term, but re-elected him anyway. Now the world has to live with the consequences.

    Now we know how the Romans must have felt under Caligula.
    The Democrats are at fault,here. As is Biden.

    For contriving to put forward Kamala Harris. Inept as a candidate during the primaries that saw Biden come to get the nomination. What did they expect
    Nope. It is purely the fault of those that voted for Trump (and his MAGA gimps in the Senate and House).

    Harris was not a perfect candidate (who is?) but she was merely useless within the normal range. Trump is off the scale bad.
    Course it is, it’s always the voters fault.

    🙄
  • TazTaz Posts: 26,142

    Nigelb said:

    It is heartening that Jewish people and organisations are calling out Nick Timothy and Kemi Badenoch for what they are.

    Attorney general asks if Kemi Badenoch would object to Jewish public prayer

    Exclusive: Richard Hermer, who is Jewish, says Tory leader and shadow minister seem ‘to only have an issue with Muslim events


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/20/attorney-general-richard-hermer-kemi-badenoch-public-prayer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    and

    VOICE OF THE JEWISH NEWS: In defence of praying during Iftar in Trafalgar Square

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/voice-of-the-jewish-news-in-defence-of-praying-during-iftar-in-trafalgar-square/

    As noted on the last thread, Badenoch is a fool.

    This debate which Nick is having is not about freedom of religion. It is about how religion is expressed in a shared public space, and whether those expressions fit within the norms of a British culture.

    Of course it is about that.
    Denying it is to argue with reality.
    Otoh, we do restrict politically-motivated Christians praying outside abortion clinics, so there's that.
    It’s alright when it happens to them, it seems.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,320
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    I blame the US electorate.

    They knew that Trump was a capricious, narcisstic, vengeful, vainglorious potential tyrant from his first term, but re-elected him anyway. Now the world has to live with the consequences.

    Now we know how the Romans must have felt under Caligula.
    The Democrats are at fault,here. As is Biden.

    For contriving to put forward Kamala Harris. Inept as a candidate during the primaries that saw Biden come to get the nomination. What did they expect
    Nope. It is purely the fault of those that voted for Trump (and his MAGA gimps in the Senate and House).

    Harris was not a perfect candidate (who is?) but she was merely useless within the normal range. Trump is off the scale bad.
    Course it is, it’s always the voters fault.

    🙄
    I hate to break it to you but no one is infallible, including voters. [insert trite cliche about democracy simply being the least worse form of government here]
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,520

    Nigelb said:

    It is heartening that Jewish people and organisations are calling out Nick Timothy and Kemi Badenoch for what they are.

    Attorney general asks if Kemi Badenoch would object to Jewish public prayer

    Exclusive: Richard Hermer, who is Jewish, says Tory leader and shadow minister seem ‘to only have an issue with Muslim events


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/20/attorney-general-richard-hermer-kemi-badenoch-public-prayer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    and

    VOICE OF THE JEWISH NEWS: In defence of praying during Iftar in Trafalgar Square

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/voice-of-the-jewish-news-in-defence-of-praying-during-iftar-in-trafalgar-square/

    As noted on the last thread, Badenoch is a fool.

    This debate which Nick is having is not about freedom of religion. It is about how religion is expressed in a shared public space, and whether those expressions fit within the norms of a British culture.

    Of course it is about that.
    Denying it is to argue with reality.
    Otoh, we do restrict politically-motivated Christians praying outside abortion clinics, so there's that.
    We restrict all protests outside abortion clinics, irrespective of what, if any, religion they preach.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,735

    Presumably while I DON’T expect Trump to face the same fate as Tojo and Japan…

    Otherwise I demand to know when you are next on holiday!

    Long weekend break start of May then I'm on holiday from June 26th through to 27th of July, the first two weeks of that break will be spent at home watching the knockout stages of the world cup.
    You appear to have a very generous holiday entitlement.

    Are you sure you don't work in the Civil Service?
    The nature of my job is uneven, nothing much happens for weeks, then somebody screws up and I have to put in 100 hour weeks, so I get TOIL.

    Plus last year I didn't take my full holiday entitlement, so part of it rolled into this year.
    You must have had a lot of screw ups last year.
  • TazTaz Posts: 26,142

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Iran and the USA both finish the group stage as runners-up they'll meet in the first knockout round in the World Cup.

    Honduras v El Salvador: The football match that kicked off a war

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-48673853
    As did

    https://www.varsity.co.uk/sport/22092
  • TazTaz Posts: 26,142

    FTSE 100 enjoying a bit of a dead cat bounce this morning.

    I’m keeping my cash where it is for now.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,520
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    I blame the US electorate.

    They knew that Trump was a capricious, narcisstic, vengeful, vainglorious potential tyrant from his first term, but re-elected him anyway. Now the world has to live with the consequences.

    Now we know how the Romans must have felt under Caligula.
    The Democrats are at fault,here. As is Biden.

    For contriving to put forward Kamala Harris. Inept as a candidate during the primaries that saw Biden come to get the nomination. What did they expect
    Nope. It is purely the fault of those that voted for Trump (and his MAGA gimps in the Senate and House).

    Harris was not a perfect candidate (who is?) but she was merely useless within the normal range. Trump is off the scale bad.
    Course it is, it’s always the voters fault.

    🙄
    That’s kinda how democracy works, yes.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,794

    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Iran and the USA both finish the group stage as runners-up they'll meet in the first knockout round in the World Cup.

    Iran are not going
    I think they’re negotiating with FIFA to see if they can play their matches in Mexico. FIFA will of course go along with whatever the winner of their peace prize commands.
    They might want to claim asylum in Mexico.

    Trump's America? Not so much...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,360

    Nigelb said:

    It is heartening that Jewish people and organisations are calling out Nick Timothy and Kemi Badenoch for what they are.

    Attorney general asks if Kemi Badenoch would object to Jewish public prayer

    Exclusive: Richard Hermer, who is Jewish, says Tory leader and shadow minister seem ‘to only have an issue with Muslim events


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/20/attorney-general-richard-hermer-kemi-badenoch-public-prayer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    and

    VOICE OF THE JEWISH NEWS: In defence of praying during Iftar in Trafalgar Square

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/voice-of-the-jewish-news-in-defence-of-praying-during-iftar-in-trafalgar-square/

    As noted on the last thread, Badenoch is a fool.

    This debate which Nick is having is not about freedom of religion. It is about how religion is expressed in a shared public space, and whether those expressions fit within the norms of a British culture.

    Of course it is about that.
    Denying it is to argue with reality.
    Otoh, we do restrict politically-motivated Christians praying outside abortion clinics, so there's that.
    Yes, I mentioned that, too.

    It's worth looking at just how limited that ban is.
    It's certainly nowhere even close to a general ban on public group prayer. And it's not aimed at a particular religion, but at a particular targeted activity.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/abortion-clinic-safe-access-zones-non-statutory-guidance/non-statutory-guidance-on-abortion-clinic-safe-access-zones-accessible
    ..This guidance is designed to ensure that abortion service providers and everyone within Safe Access Zones are clear as to what is expected under the new law and that law enforcement agencies have a clear and consistent understanding around the enforcement of Safe Access Zones.

    It is underpinned by key principles:

    It is unacceptable for anyone to be harassed or distressed simply for exercising their legal right to access abortion services. The Government has always expected the police and local authorities to use their powers to deal with those who break the law.

    The rights to gather, to express views and to manifest religious beliefs are a cornerstone of democracy in Britain and people should be free to gather and express their views, however uncomfortable they are to others, providing they do so within the law.

    To be clear, this legislation only affects certain activities within 150 metres of a clinic or hospital. Not all protests are banned and neither does this amount to criminalising those who hold pro-life views who are in a Safe Access Zone. It does not affect people’s rights to gather or to express their views about abortion or to manifest their religious beliefs about abortion anywhere else.


    It is vitally important that law enforcement agencies recognise the rights of both of those accessing or providing abortion services and protestors and, in enforcement, seek to balance their respective rights...

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,901
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    I blame the US electorate.

    They knew that Trump was a capricious, narcisstic, vengeful, vainglorious potential tyrant from his first term, but re-elected him anyway. Now the world has to live with the consequences.

    Now we know how the Romans must have felt under Caligula.
    The Democrats are at fault,here. As is Biden.

    For contriving to put forward Kamala Harris. Inept as a candidate during the primaries that saw Biden come to get the nomination. What did they expect
    Nope. It is purely the fault of those that voted for Trump (and his MAGA gimps in the Senate and House).

    Harris was not a perfect candidate (who is?) but she was merely useless within the normal range. Trump is off the scale bad.
    Course it is, it’s always the voters fault.

    🙄
    That's democracy. That's literally democracy.

    Voters pick who runs the show, they can't duck responsibility if that choice goes badly.

    It's terrible electoral politics to say that, because nobody likes being told that they stuffed up. But I'm not running for election.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,200
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    I blame the US electorate.

    They knew that Trump was a capricious, narcisstic, vengeful, vainglorious potential tyrant from his first term, but re-elected him anyway. Now the world has to live with the consequences.

    Now we know how the Romans must have felt under Caligula.
    The Democrats are at fault,here. As is Biden.

    For contriving to put forward Kamala Harris. Inept as a candidate during the primaries that saw Biden come to get the nomination. What did they expect
    Nope. It is purely the fault of those that voted for Trump (and his MAGA gimps in the Senate and House).

    Harris was not a perfect candidate (who is?) but she was merely useless within the normal range. Trump is off the scale bad.
    Course it is, it’s always the voters fault.

    🙄
    Whose fault is it then? The people who offered a better choice and those who voted for that better choice?

    This disowning of the consequences of your actions drives me nuts.
  • TazTaz Posts: 26,142
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    What’s your solution ? Destroy the global economy to keep Bibi out of jail ? Might is right ?

    Israel and the USA are getting a bloody nose here and not getting their own way.

    If you believe what the CEO of Rheinmetall was saying recently they will be running out of key munitions shortly.
    Rheinmetall has no massive insight into US arms stocks or manufacturing. (Its US sales were under $1bn last year.)

    The US has enough bombs to keep this up for a long time, and have complete air superiority.

    If they lack anything, it is air defence missiles, particularly against ballistic weapons.
    They've still got tens if thousands of cheap anti-drone missiles (which were diverted from being sent to Ukraine last year).

    I wouldn't rely on the war petering out before enormous damage could be done to gas production.
    (Something which would precipitate a global depression, whose effects would persist for years.)
    I’m not.

    I think the global economy is fucked, it’s just a matter of when.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,959

    Foxy said:

    Another 1,610 Russian troops pushed through the meat grinder in Ukraine yesterday.

    That makes 5,760 lost in the past four days. In 4 days, Russia has lost 10% of America's killed in nearly 20 years of war in Vietnam.

    I think those figures are for killed/serious wounded/POW rather than just dead.

    Even so, the slaughter is incredible. Putin could stop it at any time by simply withdrawing. Ukraine doesn't have that option.
    The proportion of dead has been rising significantly - there is a grisly record of the deaths by drone attack maintained by Ukraine. It has recently been proved that two thirds of casualties have been KIA. There is also a suggestion that the recent proportion of dead are even higher as the Russians made a push in fog, which didn't prevent the drones from proceeding with their lethal tasks.
    The other key development is the new generation of cheap drones from Ukraine with 150km range. Their predecessors had a range of 50km. This is making the logistical collation of material needed for a major push impossible which is why the Spring offensive for Russia has been an unmitigated disaster. They are losing very few tanks now. Their attacks are by poorly armed and poorly trained soldiers on their own resulting in slaughter.

    The nature of war is changing before our eyes. “The front” has become a meaningless concept. How do you fight a war in such circumstances? Until drone defence radically improves I would suggest that you simply can’t.
  • ajbajb Posts: 176

    Our new Lord and saviour, Temüjin.

    NOW - Netanyahu: "Jesus Christ has no advantage over Genghis Khan. Because if you are strong enough, ruthless enough, powerful enough, evil will overcome good."

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2034713271517794575?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Not sure if this is a real quote, but it does capture the Israeli mood; to put faith in the sword alone. The mistake is one well explained by Machiavelli (not himself a bleeding-heart pacifist): considering the difference between conquerors who gain the settled possession and loyalty of their acquisition, and those who never do so, he observed that those who, because of paranoia or other reasons, cannot restrain themselves from continuing violence and abuse towards their subjects, have to live forever with knife in hand; and in the end cannot sustain themselves. Those who offer their subjects the certainty of peace, and potential advancement, become secure in their loyalty even in the face of foreign temptation.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,548
    edited 8:53AM
    DavidL said:

    Brixian59 said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    First like SKS to be sacked after LE

    I am increasingly confident that he won't be, no matter how bad they are. The alternatives are worse and the Cabinet would be nervous about their jobs under a new leader as they were during the Burnham rumblings.
    As I understand it the cabinet do not decide it.

    A rival has to stand with the support of 20% of the PLP, which is 81 MPs I think, then Starmer decides whether to contest the challenge (nominations are not needed), then the rivals need 5% of CLPs to support and a number of affiliates.

    I expect that challenge in May.

    A leadership contest im midst of an international crisis is not unprecedented. We had one in May 1940 after all.
    I agree that the Cabinet do not decide it but the fact that they all backed Starmer's blocking of Burnham was decisive. It would be daunting to take on not just the leader but the entire cabinet. I suspect if this is repeated getting the 81 will prove difficult.
    With the exception of the usual hard core left MP's and a couple of trotskyite Union Leaders there will be NO APPETITE in the PLP for a Leadership Challenge whilst Trump and Netanyahu are creating havoc

    (1) Because there are inherently sensible voices who actually do put Country before Politics

    (2) Because Starmer is head and shuolder the best option (in any Party) we have on the Global Stage right now

    (3) Because (2) means that the longer he remains he nullifies the idiotic Party Leaders to his Right and Left and maintains Labour Polling above what it might otherwise be.

    (4) Because it gives candidates time to be seen to be supportive at a time of global crisis and not opportunists like Farage , Badenoch , Polanski and to a degree Davey

    I cannot see a Leadership challenge in 2026 unless the ME crisis is resolved a lot quicker than we all anticipate.
    Oh lord. We agree twice in a morning. Surely the end of times approaches.
    And (5) absolutely no leadership hopeful is going to grasp the torch now and be immolated

    I get my "not by April 1" winnings shortly I hope.
    2028 looking overpriced at 15s on Betfair? SKS exhausted by another 30 months of Trump and time to bed in a chosen successor.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,885
    edited 8:56AM

    Foxy said:

    Another 1,610 Russian troops pushed through the meat grinder in Ukraine yesterday.

    That makes 5,760 lost in the past four days. In 4 days, Russia has lost 10% of America's killed in nearly 20 years of war in Vietnam.

    I think those figures are for killed/serious wounded/POW rather than just dead.

    Even so, the slaughter is incredible. Putin could stop it at any time by simply withdrawing. Ukraine doesn't have that option.
    The proportion of dead has been rising significantly - there is a grisly record of the deaths by drone attack maintained by Ukraine. It has recently been proved that two thirds of casualties have been KIA. There is also a suggestion that the recent proportion of dead are even higher as the Russians made a push in fog, which didn't prevent the drones from proceeding with their lethal tasks.
    Now I know that Russia is not going to be close to economic collapse - the war in Iran will have postponed any potential future date by months if not years from whenever it might have happened. But I fail to see how they achieve their desired outcome now...

    1) Trump is bored of it and has stopped providing much support in any case, so has no leverage to force peace on Putin's terms. Putin will never have a more supportive US administration than it does now in the future.

    2) Ukraine's drone development has fundamentally altered attritional warfare in a similar way to machine guns in World War I. Trying to make territorial gains without aerial dominance just results in troops being slaughtered.

    3) Ukraine has adequate military and economic support from Europe to maintain it's drone defences indefinitely, and manpower issues are reduced as robots do more of the heavy lifting.

    I fail to see how Putin ends up with a better deal than a ceasefire on current territorial lines. Which I suspect Ukraine would accept.

    But instead of doing it now he'll carry on until 100,000 or more Russians are dead...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,680
    Dopermean said:

    DavidL said:

    Brixian59 said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    First like SKS to be sacked after LE

    I am increasingly confident that he won't be, no matter how bad they are. The alternatives are worse and the Cabinet would be nervous about their jobs under a new leader as they were during the Burnham rumblings.
    As I understand it the cabinet do not decide it.

    A rival has to stand with the support of 20% of the PLP, which is 81 MPs I think, then Starmer decides whether to contest the challenge (nominations are not needed), then the rivals need 5% of CLPs to support and a number of affiliates.

    I expect that challenge in May.

    A leadership contest im midst of an international crisis is not unprecedented. We had one in May 1940 after all.
    I agree that the Cabinet do not decide it but the fact that they all backed Starmer's blocking of Burnham was decisive. It would be daunting to take on not just the leader but the entire cabinet. I suspect if this is repeated getting the 81 will prove difficult.
    With the exception of the usual hard core left MP's and a couple of trotskyite Union Leaders there will be NO APPETITE in the PLP for a Leadership Challenge whilst Trump and Netanyahu are creating havoc

    (1) Because there are inherently sensible voices who actually do put Country before Politics

    (2) Because Starmer is head and shuolder the best option (in any Party) we have on the Global Stage right now

    (3) Because (2) means that the longer he remains he nullifies the idiotic Party Leaders to his Right and Left and maintains Labour Polling above what it might otherwise be.

    (4) Because it gives candidates time to be seen to be supportive at a time of global crisis and not opportunists like Farage , Badenoch , Polanski and to a degree Davey

    I cannot see a Leadership challenge in 2026 unless the ME crisis is resolved a lot quicker than we all anticipate.
    Oh lord. We agree twice in a morning. Surely the end of times approaches.
    And (5) absolutely no leadership hopeful is going to grasp the torch now and be immolated

    I get my "not by April 1" winnings shortly I hope.
    2028 looking overpriced at 15s on Betfair? SKS exhausted by another 30 months of Trump and time to bed in a chosen successor.
    On the other hand, if Starmer's still there in 2028 he might be looking forward to having a US president who might not be off his rocker.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,857

    Our new Lord and saviour, Temüjin.

    NOW - Netanyahu: "Jesus Christ has no advantage over Genghis Khan. Because if you are strong enough, ruthless enough, powerful enough, evil will overcome good."

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2034713271517794575?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    It's time we had this chap on Thought For The Day. It's a ringing and inspiring closing line. Perhaps he stole it from Rowan Williams or Angela Tilby.

  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,987
    DavidL said:

    Further to JJ’s recent piece about those on peril on the sea, an unexamined part of the current clusterfuck. Eight times as many ships trapped in the Gulf as there were during the Suez blockage, and they’re running out of water.

    https://x.com/sungleeiq/status/2034821036500217922?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Water water everywhere,
    The very boards did shrink,
    Water, water everywhere,
    But not a drop to drink.
    My father (a former merchant seaman) brought us all up to be careful not to waste water.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,959
    ajb said:

    Our new Lord and saviour, Temüjin.

    NOW - Netanyahu: "Jesus Christ has no advantage over Genghis Khan. Because if you are strong enough, ruthless enough, powerful enough, evil will overcome good."

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2034713271517794575?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Not sure if this is a real quote, but it does capture the Israeli mood; to put faith in the sword alone. The mistake is one well explained by Machiavelli (not himself a bleeding-heart pacifist): considering the difference between conquerors who gain the settled possession and loyalty of their acquisition, and those who never do so, he observed that those who, because of paranoia or other reasons, cannot restrain themselves from continuing violence and abuse towards their subjects, have to live forever with knife in hand; and in the end cannot sustain themselves. Those who offer their subjects the certainty of peace, and potential advancement, become secure in their loyalty even in the face of foreign temptation.
    Vi victus. It was always so.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,599
    Surely "do expect", in the lead, should be "don't expect"?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,188
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As former Ambassador Bolton, a wise head on this issue, said it was always war gamed that Iran could try to shut the Strait but in those scenarios America would always stop Iran from getting its own oil out of the Strait too.

    What was never considered was a scenario where Iran could stop Gulf states getting their products out, while still being allowed to let its own out too.

    Utter insanity.

    The whole thing is an example of the dangers of half arsing something
    I blame the US electorate.

    They knew that Trump was a capricious, narcisstic, vengeful, vainglorious potential tyrant from his first term, but re-elected him anyway. Now the world has to live with the consequences.

    Now we know how the Romans must have felt under Caligula.
    The Democrats are at fault,here. As is Biden.

    For contriving to put forward Kamala Harris. Inept as a candidate during the primaries that saw Biden come to get the nomination. What did they expect
    That's a bit like blaming the sexual assault victim because she was wearing a short skirt.

    It is not Biden/Harris's "fault" Trump was elected. He was elected fairly and squarely by a majority of voters and won the electoral college.

    Neither is it Biden/Harris's "fault" that Trump has surrounded himself with yes-men (and Tulsi) and is suffering a terminal cognitive decline.

    One could argue that installing an imbecile and wannabe dictator as the official Republican Presidential candidate was the "fault" of the Republican Party.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,599

    Iran war causes cricket-ball shortage

    There's always a silver lining
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