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Always, ALWAYS, check the terms of your bets – politicalbetting.com

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  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,665
    @paulbrand.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: Keir Starmer says the U.K. has given the US permission to use British bases to launch strikes on Iran
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,173
    edited March 1
    Scott_xP said:

    @paulbrand.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: Keir Starmer says the U.K. has given the US permission to use British bases to launch strikes on Iran

    weak, weak, weak....

    Did he genuinely think that "staying out of it" would work? Given past UK actions, the likes of Iran will still see the UK as part of the evil empire.

    He is arguing it is "defensive" not "offensive", so that is the difference now. Pin head dancing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,399
    'Palace bans Beatrice and Eugenie from Ascot: Princesses 'blindsided' after being told they can't attend royal events 'for foreseeable future'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/royals/article-15602593/Palace-bans-Beatrice-Eugenie-Ascot-royal-events.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=social-twitter_mailonline
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 167
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Wonder Man (which I forgot about last week and am catching up on) is a delight.

    And is Ben Kingsley really 82 ?

    Coincidentally, Gandhi the movie was released in '82!
    Sexy Beast is his magnum opus.
    100%
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,112
    https://needtoknow.co.uk/2026/02/27/bloodthirsty-seals-are-killing-and-eating-dolphins-off-british-coast-and-experts-have-no-idea-why/

    Bloodthirsty seals are killing and EATING dolphins off British coast and experts have no idea why
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 167

    https://needtoknow.co.uk/2026/02/27/bloodthirsty-seals-are-killing-and-eating-dolphins-off-british-coast-and-experts-have-no-idea-why/

    Bloodthirsty seals are killing and EATING dolphins off British coast and experts have no idea why

    For food I assume.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,373

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulbrand.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: Keir Starmer says the U.K. has given the US permission to use British bases to launch strikes on Iran

    weak, weak, weak....

    Did he genuinely think that "staying out of it" would work? Given past UK actions, the likes of Iran will still see the UK as part of the evil empire.

    He is arguing it is "defensive" not "offensive", so that is the difference now. Pin head dancing.
    My Persian friends here in LA tell me there is an old saying there:

    "if you stub your toe on a rock, you can be sure an Englishman left it there"

    They also tell me that the regime calls the US "the great Satan", and the UK "the little Satan".

    Candidly, I'm insulted.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,308
    interesting. Particularly Dr Marandi who speaks about the late Ayatollah.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcFD_9A_5Dg

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,579
    edited March 1
    Thoughts and prayers for Lord Mandelson, he's not even been charged let alone convicted, this is very unfair on him.

    Mandelson set to give up Wiltshire home

    Telegraph understands peer considering handing back keys to rented property as he faces drop in income


    Lord Mandelson is set to leave his second home in Wiltshire to cut his outgoings following the fallout over his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein.

    The peer, arrested on Feb 23 on suspicion of misconduct in public office, has not been seen at his Wiltshire home for weeks. The Telegraph understands that he is now considering handing back the keys to the rented property.

    The former Labour minister rents the four-bedroom farmhouse in Pewsey Vale from Nat Rothschild, the multi-millionaire financier, paying the market rate of between £2,000 and £3,000 per month.

    He also owns a four-storey town house near Regent’s Park in London, which he bought for £7.6m in 2011. Land Registry documents show that in 2019 he had a mortgage of £3.8m on the property.

    Global Counsel, the lobbying firm co-founded by Lord Mandelson, was placed into administration on Feb 20 after fresh disclosures about the peer’s links to Epstein had a “monumental impact on the business”, according to a statement from the administrator.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/03/01/mandelson-set-to-give-up-wiltshire-home/
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,696
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    It's very hard to change a regime by bombing alone.

    At the end of the first Gulf War, it was assumed that with Saddam's army mostly destroyed and the no fly zone, he would be rapidly overthrown.

    It didn't happen.

    Despite utterly destroying German cities, the Nazis never came close to capitulating.

    And most recently, Russia's constant missile and drone attacks on Ukraine have not caused the collapse of the country.

    The US has killed Iran's Supreme Leader. It has neutered any ability of theirs to project force, and shown their missiles to be useless.

    But it has not come anywhere near unseating the Islamic Government.

    Indeed it took US and allied ground troops to remove Saddam's regime and US and allied ground troops to remove the Taliban and in the latter case they returned as soon as Biden withdrew them.

    Only when there is already a mass rebel insurgency and protests on the streets as in Libya when Gaddaffi fell do western airstrikes alone work and it has gone somewhat quiet in terms of the Tehran student protests. Assad was removed by rebels without western intervention
    I hope I am wrong but these bastards seem so much more committed to the cause. If there was a window of opportunity I feel that was last month before 30,000 protestors were executed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,173

    Thoughts and prayers for Lord Mandelson, he's not even been charged let alone convicted, this is very unfair on him.

    Mandelson set to give up Wiltshire home

    Telegraph understands peer considering handing back keys to rented property as he faces drop in income


    Lord Mandelson has not been seen at his second home in Wiltshire for weeks
    Lord Mandelson has not been seen at his second home in Wiltshire for weeks Credit: Ben Birchall/PA
    Lord Mandelson is set to leave his second home in Wiltshire to cut his outgoings following the fallout over his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein.

    The peer, arrested on Feb 23 on suspicion of misconduct in public office, has not been seen at his Wiltshire home for weeks. The Telegraph understands that he is now considering handing back the keys to the rented property.

    The former Labour minister rents the four-bedroom farmhouse in Pewsey Vale from Nat Rothschild, the multi-millionaire financier, paying the market rate of between £2,000 and £3,000 per month.

    He also owns a four-storey town house near Regent’s Park in London, which he bought for £7.6m in 2011. Land Registry documents show that in 2019 he had a mortgage of £3.8m on the property.

    Global Counsel, the lobbying firm co-founded by Lord Mandelson, was placed into administration on Feb 20 after fresh disclosures about the peer’s links to Epstein had a “monumental impact on the business”, according to a statement from the administrator.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/03/01/mandelson-set-to-give-up-wiltshire-home/

    I am shocked he doesn't have a lot more money than that to require to rent a property or have a mortgage.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,894

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulbrand.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: Keir Starmer says the U.K. has given the US permission to use British bases to launch strikes on Iran

    weak, weak, weak....

    Did he genuinely think that "staying out of it" would work? Given past UK actions, the likes of Iran will still see the UK as part of the evil empire.

    He is arguing it is "defensive" not "offensive", so that is the difference now. Pin head dancing.
    He has a special talent for incurring the maximum possible political damage from any given decision.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,665
    @russincheshire.bsky.social‬

    Some say Kier Starmer is the worst politician in recent British history, but I disagree. He's actually the worst THING in recent British history. He's so spineless, he's only held up by the starch in his shirt. He's as hollow and soulless as the chalk outline around the corpse of Labour.

    https://bsky.app/profile/russincheshire.bsky.social/post/3mfzok3yj4s2l
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,550
    He’s less Churchill and more IDS.
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 167

    Thoughts and prayers for Lord Mandelson, he's not even been charged let alone convicted, this is very unfair on him.

    Mandelson set to give up Wiltshire home

    Telegraph understands peer considering handing back keys to rented property as he faces drop in income


    Lord Mandelson is set to leave his second home in Wiltshire to cut his outgoings following the fallout over his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein.

    The peer, arrested on Feb 23 on suspicion of misconduct in public office, has not been seen at his Wiltshire home for weeks. The Telegraph understands that he is now considering handing back the keys to the rented property.

    The former Labour minister rents the four-bedroom farmhouse in Pewsey Vale from Nat Rothschild, the multi-millionaire financier, paying the market rate of between £2,000 and £3,000 per month.

    He also owns a four-storey town house near Regent’s Park in London, which he bought for £7.6m in 2011. Land Registry documents show that in 2019 he had a mortgage of £3.8m on the property.

    Global Counsel, the lobbying firm co-founded by Lord Mandelson, was placed into administration on Feb 20 after fresh disclosures about the peer’s links to Epstein had a “monumental impact on the business”, according to a statement from the administrator.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/03/01/mandelson-set-to-give-up-wiltshire-home/

    Oh dear, how sad. Never mind.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,820
    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulbrand.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: Keir Starmer says the U.K. has given the US permission to use British bases to launch strikes on Iran

    weak, weak, weak....

    Did he genuinely think that "staying out of it" would work? Given past UK actions, the likes of Iran will still see the UK as part of the evil empire.

    He is arguing it is "defensive" not "offensive", so that is the difference now. Pin head dancing.
    My Persian friends here in LA tell me there is an old saying there:

    "if you stub your toe on a rock, you can be sure an Englishman left it there"

    They also tell me that the regime calls the US "the great Satan", and the UK "the little Satan".

    Candidly, I'm insulted.
    Thought the “little Satan” was Israel.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 988
    Scott_xP said:

    @russincheshire.bsky.social‬

    Some say Kier Starmer is the worst politician in recent British history, but I disagree. He's actually the worst THING in recent British history. He's so spineless, he's only held up by the starch in his shirt. He's as hollow and soulless as the chalk outline around the corpse of Labour.

    https://bsky.app/profile/russincheshire.bsky.social/post/3mfzok3yj4s2l

    Crap like this belongs in a cesspit.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,696

    viewcode said:

    British Trump latest.

    I lost...whine...sniffle...whine...wasn't me...it was others who cheated...whiney, whiney, crying...



    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    We need a full strategy for saving our democracy

    End mass postal voting
    Clamp down on family voting
    Ban cousin marriage
    Only British citizens can vote
    End Commonwealth voting

    If we do not save our democracy, we will not save our country

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2028182566591733961

    This is the Trump playbook to a T. Make up claims of voter fraud and "threats to democracy". Reform have been compliaining about the wrong sort of postal voting for years, but have never produced any actual evidence of fraud. Goodwin didn't lose because of Commonwealth citizens voting. I remain lost what role cousin marriages supposedly played in his defeat.

    (Also, Reform have clarified that their policy of only British citizens can vote isn't actually that only British citizens should be able to vote. They want to keep the vote for Irish citizens.)
    FFS, why?

    Ireland went independent well over a century ago.

    Time to end this bullshit.
    One of the Acts in (I think) 1948 states that "Ireland is in no way a foreign country". The separation was entirely justified but was also traumatic and people needed time to work it out.

    There is a shit-ton of Irish, Irish-descended or Irish-identified people in GB and the first party to suggest removing their vote involuntarily loses big time. There is a shit-ton of Irish, Irish-descended, Irish-identified, British, British-descended or British-identified people in NI and the first party to suggest removing their vote involuntarily (without a referendum) spends the rest of their life looking under their car with a mirror. Even Goodwin isn't that stupid.
    Acts can be repealed. Ireland is a foreign country.

    Absolutely in NI it is logical to accept either citizenship, special circumstances. But in Britain? No.
    I'd love to be Irish on the terms outlined. Then I could wave my EU passport about with gay abandon.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,579

    Thoughts and prayers for Lord Mandelson, he's not even been charged let alone convicted, this is very unfair on him.

    Mandelson set to give up Wiltshire home

    Telegraph understands peer considering handing back keys to rented property as he faces drop in income


    Lord Mandelson has not been seen at his second home in Wiltshire for weeks
    Lord Mandelson has not been seen at his second home in Wiltshire for weeks Credit: Ben Birchall/PA
    Lord Mandelson is set to leave his second home in Wiltshire to cut his outgoings following the fallout over his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein.

    The peer, arrested on Feb 23 on suspicion of misconduct in public office, has not been seen at his Wiltshire home for weeks. The Telegraph understands that he is now considering handing back the keys to the rented property.

    The former Labour minister rents the four-bedroom farmhouse in Pewsey Vale from Nat Rothschild, the multi-millionaire financier, paying the market rate of between £2,000 and £3,000 per month.

    He also owns a four-storey town house near Regent’s Park in London, which he bought for £7.6m in 2011. Land Registry documents show that in 2019 he had a mortgage of £3.8m on the property.

    Global Counsel, the lobbying firm co-founded by Lord Mandelson, was placed into administration on Feb 20 after fresh disclosures about the peer’s links to Epstein had a “monumental impact on the business”, according to a statement from the administrator.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/03/01/mandelson-set-to-give-up-wiltshire-home/

    I am shocked he doesn't have a lot more money than that to require to rent a property or have a mortgage.
    Perhaps that will be his defence, that he's a poor man so never benefitted financially from Jeffrey Epstein.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,173
    Scott_xP said:

    @russincheshire.bsky.social‬

    Some say Kier Starmer is the worst politician in recent British history, but I disagree. He's actually the worst THING in recent British history. He's so spineless, he's only held up by the starch in his shirt. He's as hollow and soulless as the chalk outline around the corpse of Labour.

    https://bsky.app/profile/russincheshire.bsky.social/post/3mfzok3yj4s2l

    He is basically again arguing the legal advice has changed, so his opinion has changed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,399
    edited March 1
    Taz said:

    He’s less Churchill and more IDS.
    IDS was ex military like Churchill and backed Blair and Bush on taking out Saddam
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,665
    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    Trump has released a new video statement on Iran through Truth Social.

    On casualties:

    “Sadly, there will likely be more before it ends.

    “That is the way it is.”
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,173
    edited March 1

    Thoughts and prayers for Lord Mandelson, he's not even been charged let alone convicted, this is very unfair on him.

    Mandelson set to give up Wiltshire home

    Telegraph understands peer considering handing back keys to rented property as he faces drop in income


    Lord Mandelson has not been seen at his second home in Wiltshire for weeks
    Lord Mandelson has not been seen at his second home in Wiltshire for weeks Credit: Ben Birchall/PA
    Lord Mandelson is set to leave his second home in Wiltshire to cut his outgoings following the fallout over his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein.

    The peer, arrested on Feb 23 on suspicion of misconduct in public office, has not been seen at his Wiltshire home for weeks. The Telegraph understands that he is now considering handing back the keys to the rented property.

    The former Labour minister rents the four-bedroom farmhouse in Pewsey Vale from Nat Rothschild, the multi-millionaire financier, paying the market rate of between £2,000 and £3,000 per month.

    He also owns a four-storey town house near Regent’s Park in London, which he bought for £7.6m in 2011. Land Registry documents show that in 2019 he had a mortgage of £3.8m on the property.

    Global Counsel, the lobbying firm co-founded by Lord Mandelson, was placed into administration on Feb 20 after fresh disclosures about the peer’s links to Epstein had a “monumental impact on the business”, according to a statement from the administrator.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/03/01/mandelson-set-to-give-up-wiltshire-home/

    I am shocked he doesn't have a lot more money than that to require to rent a property or have a mortgage.
    Perhaps that will be his defence, that he's a poor man so never benefitted financially from Jeffrey Epstein.
    Hmmmmmm......
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 167
    Taz said:

    He’s less Churchill and more IDS.
    I’d rather listen to any speech by The Quiet Man.
    SKS looks and sounds like AI from mid 2025
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,399
    edited March 1
    Scott_xP said:

    @paulbrand.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: Keir Starmer says the U.K. has given the US permission to use British bases to launch strikes on Iran

    That is risky politically for him, it won't go down well with the Labour left and risks further leakage from Labour to the Greens but would be the right thing to do for the country and Iranian people. Starmer has hedged it though by saying the US can only launch planes to bomb Iranian missile launch sites or storage depots hitting Gulf states sites and not sites in Iran beyond that

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqj9g11p1ezo
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,173
    edited March 1
    Brixian59 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @russincheshire.bsky.social‬

    Some say Kier Starmer is the worst politician in recent British history, but I disagree. He's actually the worst THING in recent British history. He's so spineless, he's only held up by the starch in his shirt. He's as hollow and soulless as the chalk outline around the corpse of Labour.

    https://bsky.app/profile/russincheshire.bsky.social/post/3mfzok3yj4s2l

    Crap like this belongs in a cesspit.
    Bit harsh on Kier.....out of office would suffice.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,665

    Scott_xP said:

    @russincheshire.bsky.social‬

    Some say Kier Starmer is the worst politician in recent British history, but I disagree. He's actually the worst THING in recent British history. He's so spineless, he's only held up by the starch in his shirt. He's as hollow and soulless as the chalk outline around the corpse of Labour.

    https://bsky.app/profile/russincheshire.bsky.social/post/3mfzok3yj4s2l

    He is basically again arguing the legal advice has changed, so his opinion has changed.
    Is this legal advice contained in some kind of dossier, perhaps?
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 988

    https://needtoknow.co.uk/2026/02/27/bloodthirsty-seals-are-killing-and-eating-dolphins-off-british-coast-and-experts-have-no-idea-why/

    Bloodthirsty seals are killing and EATING dolphins off British coast and experts have no idea why

    Global warming.

    The average ss temperature has risen 3 degrees in past decade

    Massive change in fish species found and behaviour patterns..

    Seals are growing much bigger, greater numbers of young dolphins inshore.

    Massive increase in Octopus last summer invasion obliterated shell fish lobster and crab pots.

    Source

    University of Plymouth
    Brixham Laboratory
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,696

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulbrand.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: Keir Starmer says the U.K. has given the US permission to use British bases to launch strikes on Iran

    weak, weak, weak....

    Did he genuinely think that "staying out of it" would work? Given past UK actions, the likes of Iran will still see the UK as part of the evil empire.

    He is arguing it is "defensive" not "offensive", so that is the difference now. Pin head dancing.
    I'm disappointed, but all you Starmer Derangement Syndrome sufferers were condemning him yesterday for not allowing bases to be used.

    A poor show by Starmer and by Starmer Derangement Syndrome sufferers.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,770
    DougSeal said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Government is working on plans to evacuate hundreds of thousands of Brits from the Middle East More than 76,000 Brits have registered their location and contact details with the Foreign Office

    UAE British population is estimated at 250k.

    If anyone does know people in the Gulf who are affected by the situation here, please make sure they register themselves with the British embassy. It might help with getting on flights when they do reopen.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-office-travel-advice-updates
    They choose to live there they should get themselves out.
    Dubai to Dover is a long way in a small boat.
    Not long enough Red, bloody parasites, tax avoiding no marks should be told to F Off.
    Well, they remain citizens of this country.
    I need to be careful tarring everyone with the same brush, for example we’re dog sitting for a couple who’ve got stranded in Doha in their way back from Sri Lanka. But, let’s face it, we all know the sort of rich classless “expat” Dubai knobs I’m talking about.
    I am not a particular fan of those flashy Dubai type people, and hate Dubai, but let’s be fair, the ‘They’re a British citizen’ was used with no nuance to make the case for Shamima Begum and Alaa Abd El Fattah, so it should extend to people who British citizens who live elsewhere for tax purposes
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,696
    Scott_xP said:

    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    Trump has released a new video statement on Iran through Truth Social.

    On casualties:

    “Sadly, there will likely be more before it ends.

    “That is the way it is.

    That's why he grew bone spurs.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,173
    edited March 1

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulbrand.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: Keir Starmer says the U.K. has given the US permission to use British bases to launch strikes on Iran

    weak, weak, weak....

    Did he genuinely think that "staying out of it" would work? Given past UK actions, the likes of Iran will still see the UK as part of the evil empire.

    He is arguing it is "defensive" not "offensive", so that is the difference now. Pin head dancing.
    I'm disappointed, but all you Starmer Derangement Syndrome sufferers were condemning him yesterday for not allowing bases to be used.

    A poor show by Starmer and by Starmer Derangement Syndrome sufferers.
    Never said anything of the sort.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 988
    CatMan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @adamjschwarz.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: The UK, France and Germany announce they may join military action against Iran.

    The joint statement says they may take "proportionate defensive action to destroy Iran’s capability to fire missiles and drones at their source."

    https://bsky.app/profile/adamjschwarz.bsky.social/post/3mfzm43eha22z

    I said the other day Starmer needed a small war as a distraction. Well he's got one!
    Thats basically No change at all.

    Cesspit journalism
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,696
    I don't have a problem with Starmer airlifting ex-pats from the Gulf so long as they collect Shamima on the return leg.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,696

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulbrand.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: Keir Starmer says the U.K. has given the US permission to use British bases to launch strikes on Iran

    weak, weak, weak....

    Did he genuinely think that "staying out of it" would work? Given past UK actions, the likes of Iran will still see the UK as part of the evil empire.

    He is arguing it is "defensive" not "offensive", so that is the difference now. Pin head dancing.
    I'm disappointed, but all you Starmer Derangement Syndrome sufferers were condemning him yesterday for not allowing bases to be used.

    A poor show by Starmer and by Starmer Derangement Syndrome sufferers.
    Never said anything of the sort.
    Apologies to you, but other Starmer Derangement Syndrome sufferers certainly were.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,608
    Scott_xP said:

    @paulbrand.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: Keir Starmer says the U.K. has given the US permission to use British bases to launch strikes on Iran

    Trump and Netanyahu know when push and shove come the UK and rest of NATO will essentilly hold the rearguard for the USA & Israel.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,610
    I reckon that Brixian will soon have had one of the most remarkable first 1,000 posts of PB history
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,108
    Brixian59 said:

    CatMan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @adamjschwarz.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: The UK, France and Germany announce they may join military action against Iran.

    The joint statement says they may take "proportionate defensive action to destroy Iran’s capability to fire missiles and drones at their source."

    https://bsky.app/profile/adamjschwarz.bsky.social/post/3mfzm43eha22z

    I said the other day Starmer needed a small war as a distraction. Well he's got one!
    Thats basically No change at all.

    Cesspit journalism
    Starmer has just announced on Sky he has given permission for the US to use UK bases, as Iran is striking British interests and our allies in the region have asked us to do more to protect them
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,696

    I reckon that Brixian will soon have had one of the most remarkable first 1,000 posts of PB history

    I am sure we will all celebrate the milestone later.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,724
    Scott_xP said:

    @paulbrand.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: Keir Starmer says the U.K. has given the US permission to use British bases to launch strikes on Iran

    Better late than never.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,307

    viewcode said:

    British Trump latest.

    I lost...whine...sniffle...whine...wasn't me...it was others who cheated...whiney, whiney, crying...



    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    We need a full strategy for saving our democracy

    End mass postal voting
    Clamp down on family voting
    Ban cousin marriage
    Only British citizens can vote
    End Commonwealth voting

    If we do not save our democracy, we will not save our country

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2028182566591733961

    This is the Trump playbook to a T. Make up claims of voter fraud and "threats to democracy". Reform have been compliaining about the wrong sort of postal voting for years, but have never produced any actual evidence of fraud. Goodwin didn't lose because of Commonwealth citizens voting. I remain lost what role cousin marriages supposedly played in his defeat.

    (Also, Reform have clarified that their policy of only British citizens can vote isn't actually that only British citizens should be able to vote. They want to keep the vote for Irish citizens.)
    FFS, why?

    Ireland went independent well over a century ago.

    Time to end this bullshit.
    One of the Acts in (I think) 1948 states that "Ireland is in no way a foreign country". The separation was entirely justified but was also traumatic and people needed time to work it out.

    There is a shit-ton of Irish, Irish-descended or Irish-identified people in GB and the first party to suggest removing their vote involuntarily loses big time. There is a shit-ton of Irish, Irish-descended, Irish-identified, British, British-descended or British-identified people in NI and the first party to suggest removing their vote involuntarily (without a referendum) spends the rest of their life looking under their car with a mirror. Even Goodwin isn't that stupid.
    Acts can be repealed. Ireland is a foreign country.

    Absolutely in NI it is logical to accept either citizenship, special circumstances. But in Britain? No.
    I'd love to be Irish on the terms outlined. Then I could wave my EU passport about with gay abandon.
    Didn't he present the late show on RTE before he died.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,724

    https://needtoknow.co.uk/2026/02/27/bloodthirsty-seals-are-killing-and-eating-dolphins-off-british-coast-and-experts-have-no-idea-why/

    Bloodthirsty seals are killing and EATING dolphins off British coast and experts have no idea why

    @DougSeal fans please explain.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,610

    I reckon that Brixian will soon have had one of the most remarkable first 1,000 posts of PB history

    I am sure we will all celebrate the milestone later.
    I was planning to mourn the event..
  • The_WoodpeckerThe_Woodpecker Posts: 550

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    British Trump latest.

    I lost...whine...sniffle...whine...wasn't me...it was others who cheated...whiney, whiney, crying...



    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    We need a full strategy for saving our democracy

    End mass postal voting
    Clamp down on family voting
    Ban cousin marriage
    Only British citizens can vote
    End Commonwealth voting

    If we do not save our democracy, we will not save our country

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2028182566591733961

    This is the Trump playbook to a T. Make up claims of voter fraud and "threats to democracy". Reform have been compliaining about the wrong sort of postal voting for years, but have never produced any actual evidence of fraud. Goodwin didn't lose because of Commonwealth citizens voting. I remain lost what role cousin marriages supposedly played in his defeat.

    (Also, Reform have clarified that their policy of only British citizens can vote isn't actually that only British citizens should be able to vote. They want to keep the vote for Irish citizens.)
    FFS, why?

    Ireland went independent well over a century ago.

    Time to end this bullshit.
    I imagine one would have to renegotiate the GFA. It is a silly anomaly that citizens of any territory that once belonged to the British empire should have the right to vote here.
    The Commonwealth issue is subtly differnt to the Ireland issue, in that Irish citizens are not considered 'aliens', and have the same rights as British citizens.

    The former -the Commonwealth issue- is all the more anomolous, in that a British citizen living lawfully in India with a visa has no right to vote there. As far as I am aware, there would be no treaty issues associated with ending the right of Commonwealth citizens to vote, and -simply- if you want to vote... become a British citizen.

    Ireland is harder, because I believe we've enshrined the rights of Irish citiziens in the UK in that agreement. It's probably worth revisiting, but feels less .. urgent. One could probably also find a compomise that fits inside the the spirit of the GFA, perhaps allowing Irish citizens resident in Northern Ireland (or vice versa) to continue to exercise the right to vote, while eliminating from those who are not Northern irish.
    Yes, in Northern Ireland is reasonable, since that allows both sides to effectively claim it while allowing citizens to choose either.

    But in Britain? No, and I don't know of any Treaty issue.

    As far as I know its not reciprocal there either. As far as I know, if I moved to the Republic of Ireland I would not be able to vote. If I am wrong and its reciprocal then fair enough, but if it is not it is well past time to end it.
    As almost always you are wrong.

    British people have the right to reside and vote in the Republic of Ireland.

    https://www.electoralcommission.ie/voter-eligibility/
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,108
    Starmer gives permission for the US to use Fairford and Diego Garcia bases
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,696

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    British Trump latest.

    I lost...whine...sniffle...whine...wasn't me...it was others who cheated...whiney, whiney, crying...



    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    We need a full strategy for saving our democracy

    End mass postal voting
    Clamp down on family voting
    Ban cousin marriage
    Only British citizens can vote
    End Commonwealth voting

    If we do not save our democracy, we will not save our country

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2028182566591733961

    This is the Trump playbook to a T. Make up claims of voter fraud and "threats to democracy". Reform have been compliaining about the wrong sort of postal voting for years, but have never produced any actual evidence of fraud. Goodwin didn't lose because of Commonwealth citizens voting. I remain lost what role cousin marriages supposedly played in his defeat.

    (Also, Reform have clarified that their policy of only British citizens can vote isn't actually that only British citizens should be able to vote. They want to keep the vote for Irish citizens.)
    FFS, why?

    Ireland went independent well over a century ago.

    Time to end this bullshit.
    I imagine one would have to renegotiate the GFA. It is a silly anomaly that citizens of any territory that once belonged to the British empire should have the right to vote here.
    The Commonwealth issue is subtly differnt to the Ireland issue, in that Irish citizens are not considered 'aliens', and have the same rights as British citizens.

    The former -the Commonwealth issue- is all the more anomolous, in that a British citizen living lawfully in India with a visa has no right to vote there. As far as I am aware, there would be no treaty issues associated with ending the right of Commonwealth citizens to vote, and -simply- if you want to vote... become a British citizen.

    Ireland is harder, because I believe we've enshrined the rights of Irish citiziens in the UK in that agreement. It's probably worth revisiting, but feels less .. urgent. One could probably also find a compomise that fits inside the the spirit of the GFA, perhaps allowing Irish citizens resident in Northern Ireland (or vice versa) to continue to exercise the right to vote, while eliminating from those who are not Northern irish.
    Yes, in Northern Ireland is reasonable, since that allows both sides to effectively claim it while allowing citizens to choose either.

    But in Britain? No, and I don't know of any Treaty issue.

    As far as I know its not reciprocal there either. As far as I know, if I moved to the Republic of Ireland I would not be able to vote. If I am wrong and its reciprocal then fair enough, but if it is not it is well past time to end it.
    As almost always you are wrong.

    British people have the right to reside and vote in the Republic of Ireland.

    https://www.electoralcommission.ie/voter-eligibility/
    Can I precis that post by removing "almost"?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,724
    edited March 1

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    British Trump latest.

    I lost...whine...sniffle...whine...wasn't me...it was others who cheated...whiney, whiney, crying...



    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    We need a full strategy for saving our democracy

    End mass postal voting
    Clamp down on family voting
    Ban cousin marriage
    Only British citizens can vote
    End Commonwealth voting

    If we do not save our democracy, we will not save our country

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2028182566591733961

    This is the Trump playbook to a T. Make up claims of voter fraud and "threats to democracy". Reform have been compliaining about the wrong sort of postal voting for years, but have never produced any actual evidence of fraud. Goodwin didn't lose because of Commonwealth citizens voting. I remain lost what role cousin marriages supposedly played in his defeat.

    (Also, Reform have clarified that their policy of only British citizens can vote isn't actually that only British citizens should be able to vote. They want to keep the vote for Irish citizens.)
    FFS, why?

    Ireland went independent well over a century ago.

    Time to end this bullshit.
    I imagine one would have to renegotiate the GFA. It is a silly anomaly that citizens of any territory that once belonged to the British empire should have the right to vote here.
    The Commonwealth issue is subtly differnt to the Ireland issue, in that Irish citizens are not considered 'aliens', and have the same rights as British citizens.

    The former -the Commonwealth issue- is all the more anomolous, in that a British citizen living lawfully in India with a visa has no right to vote there. As far as I am aware, there would be no treaty issues associated with ending the right of Commonwealth citizens to vote, and -simply- if you want to vote... become a British citizen.

    Ireland is harder, because I believe we've enshrined the rights of Irish citiziens in the UK in that agreement. It's probably worth revisiting, but feels less .. urgent. One could probably also find a compomise that fits inside the the spirit of the GFA, perhaps allowing Irish citizens resident in Northern Ireland (or vice versa) to continue to exercise the right to vote, while eliminating from those who are not Northern irish.
    Yes, in Northern Ireland is reasonable, since that allows both sides to effectively claim it while allowing citizens to choose either.

    But in Britain? No, and I don't know of any Treaty issue.

    As far as I know its not reciprocal there either. As far as I know, if I moved to the Republic of Ireland I would not be able to vote. If I am wrong and its reciprocal then fair enough, but if it is not it is well past time to end it.
    As almost always you are wrong.

    British people have the right to reside and vote in the Republic of Ireland.

    https://www.electoralcommission.ie/voter-eligibility/
    OK, if its reciprocal then fair enough.

    Any time I am wrong I am prepared to put my hand up and say so, I said "as far as I know" but did not check it. If it is reciprocal, then that is fair enough, and I am happy to take it back and draw a line under it. I was wrong.

    The rest of the Commonwealth though should lose their votes. It is not reciprocal with them (unless there's any remaining odd exceptions on a case by case basis).

    EDIT: Actually we were both wrong.

    British citizens can vote in General Elections, but can not vote in either Referenda or Presidential Elections. So it is a mix of both, a grey area.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,979
    On topic, as I have just discovered, it isn't just Ts &Cs. The bet is probably illegal. Under the 1774 Life Insurance Act, so before American independence, life insurance payments are only permitted to compensate your financial losses caused by that person's death. This is known as an insurable interest.

    As the Act's preamble puts it: Whereas it hath been found by experience that the making insurances on lives or other events wherein the assured shall have no interest hath introduced a mischievous kind of gaming

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/apgb/Geo3/14/48
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,225

    British Trump latest.

    I lost...whine...sniffle...whine...wasn't me...it was others who cheated...whiney, whiney, crying...



    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    We need a full strategy for saving our democracy

    End mass postal voting
    Clamp down on family voting
    Ban cousin marriage
    Only British citizens can vote
    End Commonwealth voting

    If we do not save our democracy, we will not save our country

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2028182566591733961

    This is the Trump playbook to a T. Make up claims of voter fraud and "threats to democracy". Reform have been compliaining about the wrong sort of postal voting for years, but have never produced any actual evidence of fraud. Goodwin didn't lose because of Commonwealth citizens voting. I remain lost what role cousin marriages supposedly played in his defeat.

    (Also, Reform have clarified that their policy of only British citizens can vote isn't actually that only British citizens should be able to vote. They want to keep the vote for Irish citizens.)
    FFS, why?

    Ireland went independent well over a century ago.

    Time to end this bullshit.
    No it didn't, and you are playing with fire, not bullshit.

    After the war of independence "Ireland" was divided into a Dominion - "The Irish Free State" and "Northern Ireland" in July 1921. This triggered an Irish civil war that continued until May 1923 The Irish Free State adopted a new constitution in 1937, and formally became a Republic in 1949. From the late 1960s, discrimination against Catholics in the North led to "The Troubles"- a violent conflict that took place both in Ireland, mostly the North, and in Great Britain and which killed over 3500 and injured around 48,000 people. This ended in a stalemate and ultimately the "Good Friday Agreement" of 1998. It is a fragile and unstable peace, and the Parliament of Northern Ireland- Stormont- was suspended for 2 years, only resuming in February 2024 after difficult negotiations.

    You obviously do not know any of this.

    If you start changing long term rules for Irish citizens- given that the number of residents of Northern Ireland that are Irish citizens, quite often holding dual nationality if they choose, then you are either going to restart the conflict, or Northern Ireland will end up outside the United Kingdom or possibly both. The Baltic Exchange Bomb in April 1992, caused massive devastation right in the heart of the City of London, including my office and that was just one of many attacks.

    Those of us that remember the Troubles do not think they should be restarted because some clown thinks that necessary compromise is Bullshit and that it should be overturned for party political reasons.

    As for "The Commonwealth", I have more relatives in Canada and Australia than in the UK, and I am certainly not unique in that.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,019
    He's got off the fence to sit on a different fence.
    The most Starmerly Uturn of all
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,173
    The New York Times reported the CIA tipped off Israel when the leader convened a meeting of top defence aides at his compound in Tehran, triggering a decision to strike.

    Israel’s Channel 12 reported that the Israeli army employed a ruse to put the Iranian leadership off its guard. On the morning of the operation, army officers were asked not to park their cars in their usual spaces to avoid detection by Iran’s spies. Misinformation was also leaked suggesting that the chief of staff Lt Gen Eyal Zamir had stayed at home.

    The channel cited officials as saying the Israeli air force killed 30 high-ranking Iranian officials within the first 30 seconds of the attack.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/01/trump-open-to-talks-with-iran-as-conflict-deepens-in-middle-east
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,498

    Why do all his videos look like AI?
    They don't pass the Turing test

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,222

    Thoughts and prayers for Lord Mandelson, he's not even been charged let alone convicted, this is very unfair on him.

    Mandelson set to give up Wiltshire home

    Telegraph understands peer considering handing back keys to rented property as he faces drop in income


    Lord Mandelson has not been seen at his second home in Wiltshire for weeks
    Lord Mandelson has not been seen at his second home in Wiltshire for weeks Credit: Ben Birchall/PA
    Lord Mandelson is set to leave his second home in Wiltshire to cut his outgoings following the fallout over his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein.

    The peer, arrested on Feb 23 on suspicion of misconduct in public office, has not been seen at his Wiltshire home for weeks. The Telegraph understands that he is now considering handing back the keys to the rented property.

    The former Labour minister rents the four-bedroom farmhouse in Pewsey Vale from Nat Rothschild, the multi-millionaire financier, paying the market rate of between £2,000 and £3,000 per month.

    He also owns a four-storey town house near Regent’s Park in London, which he bought for £7.6m in 2011. Land Registry documents show that in 2019 he had a mortgage of £3.8m on the property.

    Global Counsel, the lobbying firm co-founded by Lord Mandelson, was placed into administration on Feb 20 after fresh disclosures about the peer’s links to Epstein had a “monumental impact on the business”, according to a statement from the administrator.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/03/01/mandelson-set-to-give-up-wiltshire-home/

    I am shocked he doesn't have a lot more money than that to require to rent a property or have a mortgage.
    Those legal fees are going to be brutal.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,173

    He's got off the fence to sit on a different fence.
    The most Starmerly Uturn of all

    Its quite an impressive talent.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,173
    edited March 1
    geoffw said:

    Why do all his videos look like AI?
    They don't pass the Turing test

    Its like text to video AI from 2-3 years ago. Or even if you look closely at crowds in the background of Seed Dance 2.0, there is an unnatural lack of movement.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,373

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    British Trump latest.

    I lost...whine...sniffle...whine...wasn't me...it was others who cheated...whiney, whiney, crying...



    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    We need a full strategy for saving our democracy

    End mass postal voting
    Clamp down on family voting
    Ban cousin marriage
    Only British citizens can vote
    End Commonwealth voting

    If we do not save our democracy, we will not save our country

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2028182566591733961

    This is the Trump playbook to a T. Make up claims of voter fraud and "threats to democracy". Reform have been compliaining about the wrong sort of postal voting for years, but have never produced any actual evidence of fraud. Goodwin didn't lose because of Commonwealth citizens voting. I remain lost what role cousin marriages supposedly played in his defeat.

    (Also, Reform have clarified that their policy of only British citizens can vote isn't actually that only British citizens should be able to vote. They want to keep the vote for Irish citizens.)
    FFS, why?

    Ireland went independent well over a century ago.

    Time to end this bullshit.
    I imagine one would have to renegotiate the GFA. It is a silly anomaly that citizens of any territory that once belonged to the British empire should have the right to vote here.
    The Commonwealth issue is subtly differnt to the Ireland issue, in that Irish citizens are not considered 'aliens', and have the same rights as British citizens.

    The former -the Commonwealth issue- is all the more anomolous, in that a British citizen living lawfully in India with a visa has no right to vote there. As far as I am aware, there would be no treaty issues associated with ending the right of Commonwealth citizens to vote, and -simply- if you want to vote... become a British citizen.

    Ireland is harder, because I believe we've enshrined the rights of Irish citiziens in the UK in that agreement. It's probably worth revisiting, but feels less .. urgent. One could probably also find a compomise that fits inside the the spirit of the GFA, perhaps allowing Irish citizens resident in Northern Ireland (or vice versa) to continue to exercise the right to vote, while eliminating from those who are not Northern irish.
    Yes, in Northern Ireland is reasonable, since that allows both sides to effectively claim it while allowing citizens to choose either.

    But in Britain? No, and I don't know of any Treaty issue.

    As far as I know its not reciprocal there either. As far as I know, if I moved to the Republic of Ireland I would not be able to vote. If I am wrong and its reciprocal then fair enough, but if it is not it is well past time to end it.
    British citizens in Ireland are allowed to vote in the Dail elections (i.e. their General Election). But not in referendum.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,019
    edited March 1

    He's got off the fence to sit on a different fence.
    The most Starmerly Uturn of all

    Its quite an impressive talent.
    Im beginning to think he will be gone fairly soon. Even the bilge in the Labour party wont put up with this nonsense much longer
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,108
    As a matter of interest with near 100,000 brits wanting out, how is this possible with closed airspace and the waters of the area a war zone ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,222

    As a matter of interest with near 100,000 brits wanting out, how is this possible with closed airspace and the waters of the area a war zone ?

    As a matter of interest with near 100,000 brits wanting out, how is this possible with closed airspace and the waters of the area a war zone ?

    The long walk home...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,173

    Thoughts and prayers for Lord Mandelson, he's not even been charged let alone convicted, this is very unfair on him.

    Mandelson set to give up Wiltshire home

    Telegraph understands peer considering handing back keys to rented property as he faces drop in income


    Lord Mandelson has not been seen at his second home in Wiltshire for weeks
    Lord Mandelson has not been seen at his second home in Wiltshire for weeks Credit: Ben Birchall/PA
    Lord Mandelson is set to leave his second home in Wiltshire to cut his outgoings following the fallout over his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein.

    The peer, arrested on Feb 23 on suspicion of misconduct in public office, has not been seen at his Wiltshire home for weeks. The Telegraph understands that he is now considering handing back the keys to the rented property.

    The former Labour minister rents the four-bedroom farmhouse in Pewsey Vale from Nat Rothschild, the multi-millionaire financier, paying the market rate of between £2,000 and £3,000 per month.

    He also owns a four-storey town house near Regent’s Park in London, which he bought for £7.6m in 2011. Land Registry documents show that in 2019 he had a mortgage of £3.8m on the property.

    Global Counsel, the lobbying firm co-founded by Lord Mandelson, was placed into administration on Feb 20 after fresh disclosures about the peer’s links to Epstein had a “monumental impact on the business”, according to a statement from the administrator.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/03/01/mandelson-set-to-give-up-wiltshire-home/

    I am shocked he doesn't have a lot more money than that to require to rent a property or have a mortgage.
    Those legal fees are going to be brutal.
    Has he not still got a few mates who can do the lawyering for good price?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,979
    edited March 1

    Scott_xP said:

    @russincheshire.bsky.social‬

    Some say Kier Starmer is the worst politician in recent British history, but I disagree. He's actually the worst THING in recent British history. He's so spineless, he's only held up by the starch in his shirt. He's as hollow and soulless as the chalk outline around the corpse of Labour.

    https://bsky.app/profile/russincheshire.bsky.social/post/3mfzok3yj4s2l

    He is basically again arguing the legal advice has changed, so his opinion has changed.
    To be fair that's exactly what's happened AFAICS. Taking part in an unprovoked attack on another country to kill its head of state is a completely different circumstance under the law from responding to rocket attacks by the same state against your country or allies.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 988

    As a matter of interest with near 100,000 brits wanting out, how is this possible with closed airspace and the waters of the area a war zone ?

    As a matter of interest with near 100,000 brits wanting out, how is this possible with closed airspace and the waters of the area a war zone ?

    The long walk home...
    They wanted to be there.

    They told it how wonderful it was.

    How shit the UK was.

    Well tough shit. They will have tonhunker down and cope.

    It's not that some of them didn't claim UK cities were like war zones.

    As they say in Brum

    #FEA
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,665
    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    Two senior Iranian Shiite religious leaders, Grand Ayatollah Hossein Nouri Hamedani and Grand Ayatollah Naser Makarem Shirazi, have issued fatwas calling on Muslims worldwide to take revenge for the killing of Khamenei. (Iran International)

    https://bsky.app/profile/chadbourn.bsky.social/post/3mfzqjelmms27
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,108
    Starmer is tying himself in knots saying it is a defensive move to stop the missiles by allowing the US to use Diego Garcia to bomb the sites in Iran
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,173

    Starmer is tying himself in knots saying it is a defensive move to stop the missiles by allowing the US to use Diego Garcia to bomb the sites in Iran

    He was better on what is a woman....
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 988

    Starmer gives permission for the US to use Fairford and Diego Garcia bases

    Thats it.

    He's gone.

    Get Ange and Emily in.

  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,724
    Cicero said:

    British Trump latest.

    I lost...whine...sniffle...whine...wasn't me...it was others who cheated...whiney, whiney, crying...



    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    We need a full strategy for saving our democracy

    End mass postal voting
    Clamp down on family voting
    Ban cousin marriage
    Only British citizens can vote
    End Commonwealth voting

    If we do not save our democracy, we will not save our country

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2028182566591733961

    This is the Trump playbook to a T. Make up claims of voter fraud and "threats to democracy". Reform have been compliaining about the wrong sort of postal voting for years, but have never produced any actual evidence of fraud. Goodwin didn't lose because of Commonwealth citizens voting. I remain lost what role cousin marriages supposedly played in his defeat.

    (Also, Reform have clarified that their policy of only British citizens can vote isn't actually that only British citizens should be able to vote. They want to keep the vote for Irish citizens.)
    FFS, why?

    Ireland went independent well over a century ago.

    Time to end this bullshit.
    No it didn't, and you are playing with fire, not bullshit.

    After the war of independence "Ireland" was divided into a Dominion - "The Irish Free State" and "Northern Ireland" in July 1921. This triggered an Irish civil war that continued until May 1923 The Irish Free State adopted a new constitution in 1937, and formally became a Republic in 1949. From the late 1960s, discrimination against Catholics in the North led to "The Troubles"- a violent conflict that took place both in Ireland, mostly the North, and in Great Britain and which killed over 3500 and injured around 48,000 people. This ended in a stalemate and ultimately the "Good Friday Agreement" of 1998. It is a fragile and unstable peace, and the Parliament of Northern Ireland- Stormont- was suspended for 2 years, only resuming in February 2024 after difficult negotiations.

    You obviously do not know any of this.

    If you start changing long term rules for Irish citizens- given that the number of residents of Northern Ireland that are Irish citizens, quite often holding dual nationality if they choose, then you are either going to restart the conflict, or Northern Ireland will end up outside the United Kingdom or possibly both. The Baltic Exchange Bomb in April 1992, caused massive devastation right in the heart of the City of London, including my office and that was just one of many attacks.

    Those of us that remember the Troubles do not think they should be restarted because some clown thinks that necessary compromise is Bullshit and that it should be overturned for party political reasons.

    As for "The Commonwealth", I have more relatives in Canada and Australia than in the UK, and I am certainly not unique in that.
    Oh do piss off with the sanctimonious claptrap.

    I remember the Troubles, well some of it. I remember my home town getting bombed by the IRA.

    I remember a child of my own age, and an even younger child too, getting murdered in that bomb.

    I have no interest in restarting the Troubles and said all along that obviously in NI it makes sense for the Irish citizens to be able to vote, but in England etc only if it is reciprocal. Since it has since been pointed out it is reciprocal, that is the end of the matter as far as I am concerned, it is reasonable. If it were not, adjusting that in England (not NI) would be a trigger to restart the Troubles.

    As for citizens in the Commonwealth, good for you. I have plenty across the Commonwealth too. However that is not a reason for Commonwealth citizens to vote in their elections. My Scottish father-in-law who now lives in Canada only got the vote in Canada when he acquired Canadian citizenship, which is entirely reasonable of Canada. So why should the same not apply here?

    Any Commonwealth citizens who move here and acquire citizenship should be entitled to vote, same as any Brits who emigrate and acquire citizenship, or any non-Commonwealth citizens who move here and acquire it.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,308
    edited March 1
    Roger said:

    interesting. Particularly Dr Marandi who speaks about the late Ayatollah.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcFD_9A_5Dg

    I would really recommend reading this. Unlike this thread it is a discussion by people who know what they're talking about. An Israeli living in London a University professor from Tehran and a US jouralist. An extremely informed conversation. Trump is a total moron next to these people. He's just an oaf.
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 631

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    British Trump latest.

    I lost...whine...sniffle...whine...wasn't me...it was others who cheated...whiney, whiney, crying...



    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    We need a full strategy for saving our democracy

    End mass postal voting
    Clamp down on family voting
    Ban cousin marriage
    Only British citizens can vote
    End Commonwealth voting

    If we do not save our democracy, we will not save our country

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2028182566591733961

    This is the Trump playbook to a T. Make up claims of voter fraud and "threats to democracy". Reform have been compliaining about the wrong sort of postal voting for years, but have never produced any actual evidence of fraud. Goodwin didn't lose because of Commonwealth citizens voting. I remain lost what role cousin marriages supposedly played in his defeat.

    (Also, Reform have clarified that their policy of only British citizens can vote isn't actually that only British citizens should be able to vote. They want to keep the vote for Irish citizens.)
    FFS, why?

    Ireland went independent well over a century ago.

    Time to end this bullshit.
    I imagine one would have to renegotiate the GFA. It is a silly anomaly that citizens of any territory that once belonged to the British empire should have the right to vote here.
    The Commonwealth issue is subtly differnt to the Ireland issue, in that Irish citizens are not considered 'aliens', and have the same rights as British citizens.

    The former -the Commonwealth issue- is all the more anomolous, in that a British citizen living lawfully in India with a visa has no right to vote there. As far as I am aware, there would be no treaty issues associated with ending the right of Commonwealth citizens to vote, and -simply- if you want to vote... become a British citizen.

    Ireland is harder, because I believe we've enshrined the rights of Irish citiziens in the UK in that agreement. It's probably worth revisiting, but feels less .. urgent. One could probably also find a compomise that fits inside the the spirit of the GFA, perhaps allowing Irish citizens resident in Northern Ireland (or vice versa) to continue to exercise the right to vote, while eliminating from those who are not Northern irish.
    Yes, in Northern Ireland is reasonable, since that allows both sides to effectively claim it while allowing citizens to choose either.

    But in Britain? No, and I don't know of any Treaty issue.

    As far as I know its not reciprocal there either. As far as I know, if I moved to the Republic of Ireland I would not be able to vote. If I am wrong and its reciprocal then fair enough, but if it is not it is well past time to end it.
    Presumably anyone born in the 26 counties before 1922 was British by birth and not forced to surrender British citizenship, which would then mean their children would be automatically British which would be a very large number of Irish people . Rather than open a can of worms about people's identity was probably easier to say that anyone from the 26 counties living in Britain could vote in British elections.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,560

    As a matter of interest with near 100,000 brits wanting out, how is this possible with closed airspace and the waters of the area a war zone ?

    Is this being seriously discussed? I'm dropping my Bahrain Grand Prix prediction to 20% - was 60% this morning...

    This will generate lots of great stories. One of best ones from my extended family involves a comical C130 evacuation from Pakistan.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,222

    Thoughts and prayers for Lord Mandelson, he's not even been charged let alone convicted, this is very unfair on him.

    Mandelson set to give up Wiltshire home

    Telegraph understands peer considering handing back keys to rented property as he faces drop in income


    Lord Mandelson has not been seen at his second home in Wiltshire for weeks
    Lord Mandelson has not been seen at his second home in Wiltshire for weeks Credit: Ben Birchall/PA
    Lord Mandelson is set to leave his second home in Wiltshire to cut his outgoings following the fallout over his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein.

    The peer, arrested on Feb 23 on suspicion of misconduct in public office, has not been seen at his Wiltshire home for weeks. The Telegraph understands that he is now considering handing back the keys to the rented property.

    The former Labour minister rents the four-bedroom farmhouse in Pewsey Vale from Nat Rothschild, the multi-millionaire financier, paying the market rate of between £2,000 and £3,000 per month.

    He also owns a four-storey town house near Regent’s Park in London, which he bought for £7.6m in 2011. Land Registry documents show that in 2019 he had a mortgage of £3.8m on the property.

    Global Counsel, the lobbying firm co-founded by Lord Mandelson, was placed into administration on Feb 20 after fresh disclosures about the peer’s links to Epstein had a “monumental impact on the business”, according to a statement from the administrator.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/03/01/mandelson-set-to-give-up-wiltshire-home/

    I am shocked he doesn't have a lot more money than that to require to rent a property or have a mortgage.
    Those legal fees are going to be brutal.
    Has he not still got a few mates who can do the lawyering for good price?
    DPP-like lawyers?

    Not sure his ex-Lordship is on the Christmas card list any longer.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,108
    Brixian59 said:

    As a matter of interest with near 100,000 brits wanting out, how is this possible with closed airspace and the waters of the area a war zone ?

    As a matter of interest with near 100,000 brits wanting out, how is this possible with closed airspace and the waters of the area a war zone ?

    The long walk home...
    They wanted to be there.

    They told it how wonderful it was.

    How shit the UK was.

    Well tough shit. They will have tonhunker down and cope.

    It's not that some of them didn't claim UK cities were like war zones.

    As they say in Brum

    #FEA
    The problem is many are on holiday, not residents, and goodness knows how they get home to their families and jobs
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,445
    HYUFD said:

    'Palace bans Beatrice and Eugenie from Ascot: Princesses 'blindsided' after being told they can't attend royal events 'for foreseeable future'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/royals/article-15602593/Palace-bans-Beatrice-Eugenie-Ascot-royal-events.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=social-twitter_mailonline

    Surely they cannot be prevented from going in Tattersalls?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,724

    Trump murdered Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, former president of Iran, who - whatever you think of him - was a civilian, not in the military, and so it was murder, plain and simple. As illegal and as murderous as Iran bombing and killing, say, George W Bush at his home in Dallas.

    https://x.com/mehdirhasan/status/2028166299013005376?s=20

    Actual size: 🎻

    No flowers.

    He was a far better and more deserving target than some poor conscripted sap in a uniform. Good riddance.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,441
    So, we’re on the slippery slope already.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,108
    Eabhal said:

    As a matter of interest with near 100,000 brits wanting out, how is this possible with closed airspace and the waters of the area a war zone ?

    Is this being seriously discussed? I'm dropping my Bahrain Grand Prix prediction to 20% - was 60% this morning...

    This will generate lots of great stories. One of best ones from my extended family involves a comical C130 evacuation from Pakistan.
    Trump is talking tonight of 4 weeks or more until it is done !!!!!
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,560
    edited March 1

    Starmer is tying himself in knots saying it is a defensive move to stop the missiles by allowing the US to use Diego Garcia to bomb the sites in Iran

    It makes logical sense to me - UK allies and interests are being damaged; hit the source of that damage. I actually think Starmer has got it right here so far - the initial strike was damned reckless and we were right not take part; but now it's kicked off we've got to do what we must.

    But I'm aware I'm in a tiny minority sitting between "level Tehran" and "Don't ever get involved in the Middle East again", which much more weight on the latter. Starmer's ratings can't tank because he's nearly bottomed out anyway.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,834

    viewcode said:

    British Trump latest.

    I lost...whine...sniffle...whine...wasn't me...it was others who cheated...whiney, whiney, crying...



    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    We need a full strategy for saving our democracy

    End mass postal voting
    Clamp down on family voting
    Ban cousin marriage
    Only British citizens can vote
    End Commonwealth voting

    If we do not save our democracy, we will not save our country

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2028182566591733961

    This is the Trump playbook to a T. Make up claims of voter fraud and "threats to democracy". Reform have been compliaining about the wrong sort of postal voting for years, but have never produced any actual evidence of fraud. Goodwin didn't lose because of Commonwealth citizens voting. I remain lost what role cousin marriages supposedly played in his defeat.

    (Also, Reform have clarified that their policy of only British citizens can vote isn't actually that only British citizens should be able to vote. They want to keep the vote for Irish citizens.)
    FFS, why?

    Ireland went independent well over a century ago.

    Time to end this bullshit.
    One of the Acts in (I think) 1948 states that "Ireland is in no way a foreign country". The separation was entirely justified but was also traumatic and people needed time to work it out.

    There is a shit-ton of Irish, Irish-descended or Irish-identified people in GB and the first party to suggest removing their vote involuntarily loses big time. There is a shit-ton of Irish, Irish-descended, Irish-identified, British, British-descended or British-identified people in NI and the first party to suggest removing their vote involuntarily (without a referendum) spends the rest of their life looking under their car with a mirror. Even Goodwin isn't that stupid.
    Utter rubbish.
    And yet true. Did you not know this?

    Ireland Act 1949
    • Section 2: Republic of Ireland not a foreign country. Subsection (1): "...It is hereby declared that, notwithstanding that the Republic of Ireland is not part of His Majesty's dominions, the Republic of Ireland is not a foreign country for the purposes of any law in force in any part of the United Kingdom or in any colony, protectorate or United Kingdom trust territory, whether by virtue of a rule of law or of an Act of Parliament or any other enactment or instrument whatsoever, whether passed or made before or after the passing of this Act, and references in any Act of Parliament, other enactment or instrument whatsoever, whether passed or made before or after the passing of this Act, to foreigners, aliens, foreign countries, and foreign or foreign-built ships or aircraft shall be construed accordingly..."
    • See: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/12-13-14/41/enacted/data.html
    Irish-identified people in Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales)
    • "...White Irish is an ethnicity classification used in the census in the United Kingdom for England, Scotland and Wales. In the 2021 census, the White Irish population was 564,342 or 0.9% of Great Britain's total population..."
    • See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Irish
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,724
    Eabhal said:

    Starmer is tying himself in knots saying it is a defensive move to stop the missiles by allowing the US to use Diego Garcia to bomb the sites in Iran

    It makes logical sense to me - UK allies and interests are being damaged; hit the source of that damage. I actually think Starmer has got it right here so far - the initial strike was damned reckless and we right not take part; but now it's kicked off we've got to do what we must.

    But I'm aware I'm in a tiny minority sitting between "level Tehran" and "Don't ever get involved in the Middle East again", which much more weight on the latter. Starmer's ratings can't tank because he's nearly bottomed out anyway.
    No, Carney had it right, the initial strikes were fully justified and should be fully supported.

    To be fair though, the Americans can hardly complain about allies being late to the fight.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,173
    edited March 1
    Eabhal said:

    Starmer is tying himself in knots saying it is a defensive move to stop the missiles by allowing the US to use Diego Garcia to bomb the sites in Iran

    It makes logical sense to me - UK allies and interests are being damaged; hit the source of that damage. I actually think Starmer has got it right here so far - the initial strike was damned reckless and we were right not take part; but now it's kicked off we've got to do what we must.

    But I'm aware I'm in a tiny minority sitting between "level Tehran" and "Don't ever get involved in the Middle East again", which much more weight on the latter. Starmer's ratings can't tank because he's nearly bottomed out anyway.
    Except we aren't....""We are not joining these strikes", "we will not join offensive action now"
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,834
    Sweeney74 said:

    Been out with the family all day. The Giants exhibition at the National Museum in Edinburgh is worth a visit if you’re in the area.
    Anyhoo, what’ve I missed?

    The Brit awards were felt to be disappointing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brit_Awards_2026
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,108
    Eabhal said:

    Starmer is tying himself in knots saying it is a defensive move to stop the missiles by allowing the US to use Diego Garcia to bomb the sites in Iran

    It makes logical sense to me - UK allies and interests are being damaged; hit the source of that damage. I actually think Starmer has got it right here so far - the initial strike was damned reckless and we right not take part; but now it's kicked off we've got to do what we must.

    But I'm aware I'm in a tiny minority sitting between "level Tehran" and "Don't ever get involved in the Middle East again", which much more weight on the latter. Starmer's ratings can't tank because he's nearly bottomed out anyway.
    Lot of sense in that, but certainly the UK and I understand the EU are collectively taking the view their interests and people are under threat and accordingly are rowing in behind the US
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,868
    FF43 said:

    On topic, as I have just discovered, it isn't just Ts &Cs. The bet is probably illegal. Under the 1774 Life Insurance Act, so before American independence, life insurance payments are only permitted to compensate your financial losses caused by that person's death. This is known as an insurable interest.

    As the Act's preamble puts it: Whereas it hath been found by experience that the making insurances on lives or other events wherein the assured shall have no interest hath introduced a mischievous kind of gaming

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/apgb/Geo3/14/48

    Predating the internet celebrity death list by well over 200 years.

    There really is nothing new under the sun, is there?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,111
    Interesting Starmer gave permission for those bases but not Akrotiri in Cyprus .

    Is this I wonder because the Iranian missiles can’t reach the former and there’s a lot of anger in Cyprus at the island being dragged into this together with the effect it would have on tourism .
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,560
    edited March 1

    Eabhal said:

    Starmer is tying himself in knots saying it is a defensive move to stop the missiles by allowing the US to use Diego Garcia to bomb the sites in Iran

    It makes logical sense to me - UK allies and interests are being damaged; hit the source of that damage. I actually think Starmer has got it right here so far - the initial strike was damned reckless and we right not take part; but now it's kicked off we've got to do what we must.

    But I'm aware I'm in a tiny minority sitting between "level Tehran" and "Don't ever get involved in the Middle East again", which much more weight on the latter. Starmer's ratings can't tank because he's nearly bottomed out anyway.
    No, Carney had it right, the initial strikes were fully justified and should be fully supported.

    To be fair though, the Americans can hardly complain about allies being late to the fight.
    I know this is futile with you but I would make a distinction between "justified" and something that should be "fully supported".

    Killing Khamenei in isolation was justifiable but given the potential consequences and uncertainty it's not something I could have supported. So far it's make no difference to the prospects pf the Iranian people, or even made them worse, while causing a massive degree of economic and humanitarian chaos across the Gulf and Middle East.

    If in 6 months they are holding elections and opening gay bars in Tehran then I'll concede you were right.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,894
    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/2028226681811415357

    Nearly a dozen KC-135R/T Stratotankers with the U.S. Air Force have departed air bases tonight in Spain bound for bases in Germany, the U.K. and other countries in Europe, with the it possible that Spain has ordered the withdrawal of the U.S. aerial-refueling fleet from the country in protest of the ongoing conflict with Iran.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,173
    nico67 said:

    Interesting Starmer gave permission for those bases but not Akrotiri in Cyprus .

    Is this I wonder because the Iranian missiles can’t reach the former and there’s a lot of anger in Cyprus at the island being dragged into this together with the effect it would have on tourism .

    As Iran have already shown, it won't matter. They have already fired at Cyprus, they will do so again regardless if jets are launched from there or not. They aren't going to be worrying about the distinction and what an egg headed lawyer on international law thinks.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,665
    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    There are reports of an explosion at RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus. Sirens activated at the base and aircraft scrambled.
  • Starmer is on the way out.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,894
    Scott_xP said:

    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    There are reports of an explosion at RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus. Sirens activated at the base and aircraft scrambled.

    Starmer will have to get some new legal advice
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,560

    Eabhal said:

    Starmer is tying himself in knots saying it is a defensive move to stop the missiles by allowing the US to use Diego Garcia to bomb the sites in Iran

    It makes logical sense to me - UK allies and interests are being damaged; hit the source of that damage. I actually think Starmer has got it right here so far - the initial strike was damned reckless and we were right not take part; but now it's kicked off we've got to do what we must.

    But I'm aware I'm in a tiny minority sitting between "level Tehran" and "Don't ever get involved in the Middle East again", which much more weight on the latter. Starmer's ratings can't tank because he's nearly bottomed out anyway.
    Except we aren't....""We are not joining these strikes", "we will not join offensive action now"
    You're right. But that makes me curious as to the value of these bases to the Americans. I don't want to go full Leon but are they going to start carpet bombing Tehran with B52s? That's what's based at Fairford.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,834
    FF43 said:

    On topic, as I have just discovered, it isn't just Ts &Cs. The bet is probably illegal. Under the 1774 Life Insurance Act, so before American independence, life insurance payments are only permitted to compensate your financial losses caused by that person's death. This is known as an insurable interest.

    As the Act's preamble puts it: Whereas it hath been found by experience that the making insurances on lives or other events wherein the assured shall have no interest hath introduced a mischievous kind of gaming

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/apgb/Geo3/14/48

    Yup. I had forgotten the name of the act (I referred to it as the "Gambling Act") so thank you for reminding me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Assurance_Act_1774
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,560
    Scott_xP said:

    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    There are reports of an explosion at RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus. Sirens activated at the base and aircraft scrambled.

    Well fuck. Here we go.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,173

    nico67 said:

    Interesting Starmer gave permission for those bases but not Akrotiri in Cyprus .

    Is this I wonder because the Iranian missiles can’t reach the former and there’s a lot of anger in Cyprus at the island being dragged into this together with the effect it would have on tourism .

    As Iran have already shown, it won't matter. They have already fired at Cyprus, they will do so again regardless if jets are launched from there or not. They aren't going to be worrying about the distinction and what an egg headed lawyer on international law thinks.
    I am like mystic meg....
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,498
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starmer is tying himself in knots saying it is a defensive move to stop the missiles by allowing the US to use Diego Garcia to bomb the sites in Iran

    It makes logical sense to me - UK allies and interests are being damaged; hit the source of that damage. I actually think Starmer has got it right here so far - the initial strike was damned reckless and we were right not take part; but now it's kicked off we've got to do what we must.

    But I'm aware I'm in a tiny minority sitting between "level Tehran" and "Don't ever get involved in the Middle East again", which much more weight on the latter. Starmer's ratings can't tank because he's nearly bottomed out anyway.
    Except we aren't....""We are not joining these strikes", "we will not join offensive action now"
    You're right. But that makes me curious as to the value of these bases to the Americans. I don't want to go full Leon but are they going to start carpet bombing Tehran with B52s? That's what's based at Fairford.
    iiuc the hallmark of this campaign is precision strikes, not carpet bombing
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,560
    geoffw said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starmer is tying himself in knots saying it is a defensive move to stop the missiles by allowing the US to use Diego Garcia to bomb the sites in Iran

    It makes logical sense to me - UK allies and interests are being damaged; hit the source of that damage. I actually think Starmer has got it right here so far - the initial strike was damned reckless and we were right not take part; but now it's kicked off we've got to do what we must.

    But I'm aware I'm in a tiny minority sitting between "level Tehran" and "Don't ever get involved in the Middle East again", which much more weight on the latter. Starmer's ratings can't tank because he's nearly bottomed out anyway.
    Except we aren't....""We are not joining these strikes", "we will not join offensive action now"
    You're right. But that makes me curious as to the value of these bases to the Americans. I don't want to go full Leon but are they going to start carpet bombing Tehran with B52s? That's what's based at Fairford.
    iiuc the hallmark of this campaign is precision strikes, not carpet bombing
    Exactly. So why the change now?
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,820

    Starmer is on the way out.

    There cannot be anything more tiresome than people angling for a Labour leadership contest two days into a major regional conflict that we may get dragged into given the breadth of Iran's retaliation.

    Seriously, give it a break and come back after May if things have calmed down. The government needs to be focussing on governing through what is objectively a difficult situation to navigate.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,019

    Scott_xP said:

    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    There are reports of an explosion at RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus. Sirens activated at the base and aircraft scrambled.

    Starmer will have to get some new legal advice
    Hopefully that advice is for him to resign. Immediately.
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