Will Hutton @williamnhutton · 14h Refusing Trump permission to use British bases in Fairford Gloucestershire, Cyprus and Diego Garcia to mount a unilateral attack on Iran against international law takes some courage. Few mourn the murderous Ali Khamenei. But international law must be kept alive even in dark days
“ Refusing Trump permission to use British bases in Fairford Gloucestershire, Cyprus and Diego Garcia to mount a unilateral attack on Iran against international law’
Is this refusal “hearsay” or is their actual evidence? A lot of news agencies caveat it when repeating it.
There was a lot of weight leaned on HMG by the Gulf states in the last 24 hours. The decision to allow use of UK bases has marginal impact as the US planned without them anyway. Cyprus is handy for air patrol over Jordan and Israel if the US chose to station there and handy for refuelling and US facilities in the UK are already in active use as part of this conflict.
That decision, however, should be seen the in context of the rather negative feedback received from the Gulf states and less about the US leaning on London.
Starmer said only Diego Garcia and RAF Fairford bases to be used by the US.
Did Starmer say that? Or not mention which bases, and poor journalism mentions those two?
All media including the super close to #10 ones are running with this exact statement e.g Pippa Crerar and of course the "BBC Understands"....,
Keir Starmer has given US permission to use UK bases at RAF Fairford and Diego Garcia to launch “defensive” airstrikes against Iran - and destroy its missiles “at source” to prevent them firing across region.
i.e. that is what #10 has told all of them.
There could be reason UK government won’t share with journalists which ones. Journalists could all be “intelligent guessing”. All their “intelligent guessing” could be wrong. Anyhows, the point of this is it’s harder to do the defensive thing on the fireworks whilst they are airbourne, easier to do the defensive thing by blowing them up whilst still in the box, and that idea comes with time pressure - so we can expect to measure activity at Fairfield very soon? Or the activity is at a different base. No activity at Fairfield could also mean the US didn’t come back asking for this, it’s a unilateral gesture/suggestion from UK government.
If they were guessing, they would surely guess Cyrprus, as that has been used loads of times for missions in the Middle East. Also, they all have the same quote word for word, which says #10 told them this is the case.
I firmly believe media quote each other. A story, or rumour, only has to appear in one place, and they all quote it, regardless how dubious it might be.
What made me suspicious in the first place, when the Times first published it, it didn’t come across in the Times story as though told by the UK, it sounded like the US angle. Surely the two countries were in constant discussions at all different levels, I don’t think the first time bases are asked to be used is in a Tuesday night FaceTime between the two leaders. Starmer’s “offer” announced this evening but thrashed out much earlier, sounds voluntary to me, not result from a recent request.
BREAKING: Keir Starmer says the U.K. has given the US permission to use British bases to launch strikes on Iran
weak, weak, weak....
Did he genuinely think that "staying out of it" would work? Given past UK actions, the likes of Iran will still see the UK as part of the evil empire.
He is arguing it is "defensive" not "offensive", so that is the difference now. Pin head dancing.
My Persian friends here in LA tell me there is an old saying there:
"if you stub your toe on a rock, you can be sure an Englishman left it there"
They also tell me that the regime calls the US "the great Satan", and the UK "the little Satan".
Candidly, I'm insulted.
Israel is the Little Satan, shirley.
Nope
The US/UK/Great/Little Satan thing was one of Khomeni’s signature pieces from his death-by-boredom speeches in the 80s.
I demand an upgrade.
If Keir only manages one thing, I would like it to be getting the UK upgraded from "Little Satan" to -say- "Medium-Sized Satan".
The Iranian mullahs have always distrusted the UK, basically they think the Brits are a bit crafty and they dont have to dip far into their own history to get evidence. The Iranians believe there are current links between British Intelligence and arab separatist groups in the Khuzestan region.
Speaking of separatists, I wonder what the Iranian Kurds are upto right now
2) Tell everyone we weren't involved and hope they leave us alone.
3) oh dear, they didn't leave us alone. They're shooting missiles at us.
4) claim that the only way to stop this and protect British citizens is to destroy the missiles at source.
5) allow the Americans to use our bases to destroy the missiles at source.
6) refuse to help destroy the missiles at source, even though we just said destroying them at source is the only way to end the threat to British citizens.
7) tell everyone we're not involved and hope they'll leave us alone.
Correct approach.
Britain should stay as far as possible from the mad king's war because nobody knows what the plan is if such a thing exists and even if it does nobody knows whether that will still be the plan tomorrow.
When attacked as collateral from the said mad king's war the UK response can't really be nothing. But it should be the closest available option to nothing, which is what is described here.
On the plus side The Madness of King Trump should be one heck of a movie in 30 years. I predict 10 Oscars.
There was a lot of weight leaned on HMG by the Gulf states in the last 24 hours. The decision to allow use of UK bases has marginal impact as the US planned without them anyway. Cyprus is handy for air patrol over Jordan and Israel if the US chose to station there and handy for refuelling and US facilities in the UK are already in active use as part of this conflict.
That decision, however, should be seen the in context of the rather negative feedback received from the Gulf states and less about the US leaning on London.
Starmer said only Diego Garcia and RAF Fairford bases to be used by the US.
Did Starmer say that? Or not mention which bases, and poor journalism mentions those two?
All media including the super close to #10 ones are running with this exact statement e.g Pippa Crerar and of course the "BBC Understands"....,
Keir Starmer has given US permission to use UK bases at RAF Fairford and Diego Garcia to launch “defensive” airstrikes against Iran - and destroy its missiles “at source” to prevent them firing across region.
i.e. that is what #10 has told all of them.
There could be reason UK government won’t share with journalists which ones. Journalists could all be “intelligent guessing”. All their “intelligent guessing” could be wrong. Anyhows, the point of this is it’s harder to do the defensive thing on the fireworks whilst they are airbourne, easier to do the defensive thing by blowing them up whilst still in the box, and that idea comes with time pressure - so we can expect to measure activity at Fairfield very soon? Or the activity is at a different base. No activity at Fairfield could also mean the US didn’t come back asking for this, it’s a unilateral gesture/suggestion from UK government.
If they were guessing, they would surely guess Cyrprus, as that has been used loads of times for missions in the Middle East. Also, they all have the same quote word for word, which says #10 told them this is the case.
I firmly believe media quote each other. A story, or rumour, only has to appear in one place, and they all quote it, regardless how dubious it might be.
What made me suspicious in the first place, when the Times first published it, it didn’t come across in the Times story as though told by the UK, it sounded like the US angle. Surely the two countries were in constant discussions at all different levels, I don’t think the first time bases are asked to be used is in a Tuesday night FaceTime between the two leaders. Starmer’s “offer” announced this evening but thrashed out much earlier, sounds voluntary to me, not result from a recent request.
While i agree lots of journalists do this, but for big stories " BBC understands" is never guessing or quoting others, its come from the top
There was a lot of weight leaned on HMG by the Gulf states in the last 24 hours. The decision to allow use of UK bases has marginal impact as the US planned without them anyway. Cyprus is handy for air patrol over Jordan and Israel if the US chose to station there and handy for refuelling and US facilities in the UK are already in active use as part of this conflict.
That decision, however, should be seen the in context of the rather negative feedback received from the Gulf states and less about the US leaning on London.
Starmer said only Diego Garcia and RAF Fairford bases to be used by the US.
Did Starmer say that? Or not mention which bases, and poor journalism mentions those two?
All media including the super close to #10 ones are running with this exact statement e.g Pippa Crerar and of course the "BBC Understands"....,
Keir Starmer has given US permission to use UK bases at RAF Fairford and Diego Garcia to launch “defensive” airstrikes against Iran - and destroy its missiles “at source” to prevent them firing across region.
i.e. that is what #10 has told all of them.
There could be reason UK government won’t share with journalists which ones. Journalists could all be “intelligent guessing”. All their “intelligent guessing” could be wrong. Anyhows, the point of this is it’s harder to do the defensive thing on the fireworks whilst they are airbourne, easier to do the defensive thing by blowing them up whilst still in the box, and that idea comes with time pressure - so we can expect to measure activity at Fairfield very soon? Or the activity is at a different base. No activity at Fairfield could also mean the US didn’t come back asking for this, it’s a unilateral gesture/suggestion from UK government.
If they were guessing, they would surely guess Cyrprus, as that has been used loads of times for missions in the Middle East. Also, they all have the same quote word for word, which says #10 told them this is the case.
I firmly believe media quote each other. A story, or rumour, only has to appear in one place, and they all quote it, regardless how dubious it might be.
What made me suspicious in the first place, when the Times first published it, it didn’t come across in the Times story as though told by the UK, it sounded like the US angle. Surely the two countries were in constant discussions at all different levels, I don’t think the first time bases are asked to be used is in a Tuesday night FaceTime between the two leaders. Starmer’s “offer” announced this evening but thrashed out much earlier, sounds voluntary to me, not result from a recent request.
While i agree lots of journalists do this, but for big stories " BBC understands" is never guessing or quoting others, its come from the top
No. I don’t go along with u-turn based on new legal opinion all made up on the hoof in last couple of days. I wouldn’t be surpised if “we won’t be joining you in offensive capacity, nor can you can use our bases for offensive strikes making us legally culpable, but you can use the bases for defensive strikes” was the clear UK position given to US at every level in every channel many weeks ago, that prompted the US administration planting the bases story in the Times alongside Chagos u-turn on truth social, in pique, but also to pressure “more” from the UK government.
There was a lot of weight leaned on HMG by the Gulf states in the last 24 hours. The decision to allow use of UK bases has marginal impact as the US planned without them anyway. Cyprus is handy for air patrol over Jordan and Israel if the US chose to station there and handy for refuelling and US facilities in the UK are already in active use as part of this conflict.
That decision, however, should be seen the in context of the rather negative feedback received from the Gulf states and less about the US leaning on London.
Starmer said only Diego Garcia and RAF Fairford bases to be used by the US.
Did Starmer say that? Or not mention which bases, and poor journalism mentions those two?
All media including the super close to #10 ones are running with this exact statement e.g Pippa Crerar and of course the "BBC Understands"....,
Keir Starmer has given US permission to use UK bases at RAF Fairford and Diego Garcia to launch “defensive” airstrikes against Iran - and destroy its missiles “at source” to prevent them firing across region.
i.e. that is what #10 has told all of them.
There could be reason UK government won’t share with journalists which ones. Journalists could all be “intelligent guessing”. All their “intelligent guessing” could be wrong. Anyhows, the point of this is it’s harder to do the defensive thing on the fireworks whilst they are airbourne, easier to do the defensive thing by blowing them up whilst still in the box, and that idea comes with time pressure - so we can expect to measure activity at Fairfield very soon? Or the activity is at a different base. No activity at Fairfield could also mean the US didn’t come back asking for this, it’s a unilateral gesture/suggestion from UK government.
If they were guessing, they would surely guess Cyrprus, as that has been used loads of times for missions in the Middle East. Also, they all have the same quote word for word, which says #10 told them this is the case.
I firmly believe media quote each other. A story, or rumour, only has to appear in one place, and they all quote it, regardless how dubious it might be.
What made me suspicious in the first place, when the Times first published it, it didn’t come across in the Times story as though told by the UK, it sounded like the US angle. Surely the two countries were in constant discussions at all different levels, I don’t think the first time bases are asked to be used is in a Tuesday night FaceTime between the two leaders. Starmer’s “offer” announced this evening but thrashed out much earlier, sounds voluntary to me, not result from a recent request.
"I love rumours! Facts can be so misleading, but rumours, true or false, are often revealing!"
There was a lot of weight leaned on HMG by the Gulf states in the last 24 hours. The decision to allow use of UK bases has marginal impact as the US planned without them anyway. Cyprus is handy for air patrol over Jordan and Israel if the US chose to station there and handy for refuelling and US facilities in the UK are already in active use as part of this conflict.
That decision, however, should be seen the in context of the rather negative feedback received from the Gulf states and less about the US leaning on London.
Starmer said only Diego Garcia and RAF Fairford bases to be used by the US.
Did Starmer say that? Or not mention which bases, and poor journalism mentions those two?
All media including the super close to #10 ones are running with this exact statement e.g Pippa Crerar and of course the "BBC Understands"....,
Keir Starmer has given US permission to use UK bases at RAF Fairford and Diego Garcia to launch “defensive” airstrikes against Iran - and destroy its missiles “at source” to prevent them firing across region.
i.e. that is what #10 has told all of them.
There could be reason UK government won’t share with journalists which ones. Journalists could all be “intelligent guessing”. All their “intelligent guessing” could be wrong. Anyhows, the point of this is it’s harder to do the defensive thing on the fireworks whilst they are airbourne, easier to do the defensive thing by blowing them up whilst still in the box, and that idea comes with time pressure - so we can expect to measure activity at Fairfield very soon? Or the activity is at a different base. No activity at Fairfield could also mean the US didn’t come back asking for this, it’s a unilateral gesture/suggestion from UK government.
If they were guessing, they would surely guess Cyrprus, as that has been used loads of times for missions in the Middle East. Also, they all have the same quote word for word, which says #10 told them this is the case.
I firmly believe media quote each other. A story, or rumour, only has to appear in one place, and they all quote it, regardless how dubious it might be.
What made me suspicious in the first place, when the Times first published it, it didn’t come across in the Times story as though told by the UK, it sounded like the US angle. Surely the two countries were in constant discussions at all different levels, I don’t think the first time bases are asked to be used is in a Tuesday night FaceTime between the two leaders. Starmer’s “offer” announced this evening but thrashed out much earlier, sounds voluntary to me, not result from a recent request.
My comment on that is that the Times tends afaics to be the primary source of "Anonymous General (or identified 'expert') says that UK forces are shit" stories of which we see a steady trickle.
On the "they quote each other" - of course, circulation or clicks has been more important than accurate reporting since 2006, or possible 1896 when the Daily Mail started, or before that with the Spectator, Punch and the Georgian pamphlet publishers.
As I noted before, US bases are important for bringing in munitions for a sustained campaign, as they were at desert storm, and Diego Garcia is a secure storage location, unlike the USA Gulf bases.
So yes we need multiple sources and the statement from SKS to be sure.
IMO it is a bad mistake to get caught up in what remains a vanity war by Trump to distract from his political problems. If true, it is a bad decision by Starmer, especially. given our limited defence capability against attack drones.
Comments
Is this refusal “hearsay” or is their actual evidence? A lot of news agencies caveat it when repeating it.
If Keir only manages one thing, I would like it to be getting the UK upgraded from "Little Satan" to -say- "Medium-Sized Satan".
What made me suspicious in the first place, when the Times first published it, it didn’t come across in the Times story as though told by the UK, it sounded like the US angle.
Surely the two countries were in constant discussions at all different levels, I don’t think the first time bases are asked to be used is in a Tuesday night FaceTime between the two leaders.
Starmer’s “offer” announced this evening but thrashed out much earlier, sounds voluntary to me, not result from a recent request.
Speaking of separatists, I wonder what the Iranian Kurds are upto right now
Hezbollah fired a barrage of missiles at Israel after midnight, according to Israeli security officials.
https://news.sky.com/story/iran-latest-israel-launches-preventative-attack-defence-minister-says-13509565#11176097
On the "they quote each other" - of course, circulation or clicks has been more important than accurate reporting since 2006, or possible 1896 when the Daily Mail started, or before that with the Spectator, Punch and the Georgian pamphlet publishers.
As I noted before, US bases are important for bringing in munitions for a sustained campaign, as they were at desert storm, and Diego Garcia is a secure storage location, unlike the USA Gulf bases.
So yes we need multiple sources and the statement from SKS to be sure.
IMO it is a bad mistake to get caught up in what remains a vanity war by Trump to distract from his political problems. If true, it is a bad decision by Starmer, especially. given our limited defence capability against attack drones.