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Tories could be hit harder by local election u-turn than Labour says Prof Sir John Curtice

SystemSystem Posts: 12,953
edited February 17 in General
Tories could be hit harder by local election u-turn than Labour says Prof Sir John Curtice – politicalbetting.com

There is no polling and political expert I respect more than Professor Sir John Curtice, as a wise man once observed nobody became rich by betting against Sir John. I am happy that he shares my view that the u-turn on holding the postponed local elections represents a much bigger risk for the Tories than Labour and that means more problems for Kemi Badenoch which could see a leadership challenge.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • eekeek Posts: 32,612
    edited February 17
    First as reform will be in may
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,620
    Labour are obviously scared of Kemi. Any Tories thinking about getting rid of her should reflect on that.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,538

    Labour are obviously scared of Kemi. Any Tories thinking about getting rid of her should reflect on that.

    They really aren't.
    Then they should be
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,356
    edited February 17
    I expect it will be a bloodbath for both Tories and Labour.
    But the results in a handful of London Boroughs where journalists live will be the headline whatever happens.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,373
    edited February 17
    dixiedean said:

    I expect it will be a bloodbath for both Tories and Labour.
    But the results in a handful of London Boroughs where journalists live will be the headline whatever happens.

    The stepmom analogy will need updating.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,620

    Labour are obviously scared of Kemi. Any Tories thinking about getting rid of her should reflect on that.

    They really aren't.
    Then why have they made a decision that helps Farage and puts Kemi in danger? Are they stupid?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,538
    edited February 17
    6 counties are up - Essex, Norfolk, Suffolk, West and East Sussex and Hampshire

    Reform win Essex (if they dont its a poor night for Nigel)
    The Sussexes and Hampshire probably end up NoC with various LD vs Con vs Ref bun fights for largest party
    Suffolk - maybe Reform, Ref largest party NOC possible
    Norfolk - complicated. Norwich wards will split Lab Green mainly, North Norfolk is LD country and theyll do well here.
    Ref will outgun Tories in the rural areas and market towns but by how much? Wymondham Central suggests its not a done deal.
    Add in Restore in Yarmouth and its a tricky road to Ref majority
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,800

    Labour are obviously scared of Kemi. Any Tories thinking about getting rid of her should reflect on that.

    They really aren't.
    Then why have they made a decision that helps Farage and puts Kemi in danger? Are they stupid?
    The evidence, based on multiple decisions by this government, is that they are stupid.
  • dixiedean said:

    I expect it will be a bloodbath for both Tories and Labour.
    But the results in a handful of London Boroughs where journalists live will be the headline whatever happens.

    The stepmom analogy will need updating.
    Two stepmons?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,255

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why have labour closed up on Reform in the betting odds or am I misreading them ?

    Reform have been rumbled.
    Grumpy Tory retirement home. No policies. Empty suits
    I think it’s too early to say they’ve been rumbled. They definitely have given their opponents a huge attack line as a collection of disaffected former Tories, and that could (and probably will) come back to bite them, but they’re still polling around 29-31% with most pollsters, and still have a decent lead.

    There is a lot of road left to run yet and lots of time for Reform to implode, but we’re not there yet and I’d hazard a guess we won’t be for some time - certainly not this year.
    I think those predicting the imminent demise of Reform are likely to be severely disappointed.

    On the other hand, the easy part (for them) has now been done. They've got to 30%. But they haven't managed to 'unite the right', and the Conservatives have been getting their act together in the last few months and have seen their vote share start to rise, mostly at the expense of Reform.

    Running councils might also a bit of a poisoned chalice for Reform. Promising easy savings while delivering big rises in Council Tax is unlikely to endear them to voters.

    That said, Reform are going to be the big winners in May (with the Greens also significant gainers, one would think, while the LDs are likely to put in a decent but not stellar performance).
    Interesting bit will be what happens when the Rupert the Restore Britain Bear party actually gets created. Rupie and the Nigel have a significant personal disagreement which suggests they won't be reconciled - and will work hard to take each other out.
    Well... my assumption is that it will have as little impact as the (Musk backed) Advance UK.

    Here's the thing. Farage is smart. (Yes, it's true.) He knows there are more votes by being a little to the Right of the Tories than by being a lot. He also knows that disassociating himself from really nasty racist elements (like Tommy Robinson) is a net vote winner.

    BUT.

    There are a fair number of Reform supporters who probably did vote for the BNP historically, and support them on the basis that (a) they're the best of a bad bunch, and (b) hopefully that Farage is just saying these things 'cause he has to, and he's bashed the foreigners and the EU in the past, so he's probably thinking what I'm thinking. If Advance/Reclaim/Restore/Erase&Rewind were to establish a foothold, then they might be able to pull 5% or so out of Reform. (I guess this is possible, too, if Reform's running of local councils looks no better than Lab/Lib/Con.)
    The goldilocks scenario for Reform is if Restore establish themselves not by cannibalising Reform, but by providing a foil to help Reform cannibalise the mainstream centre-right vote, with perhaps the same effect pushing the Tories onto Labour's territory.
    I would agree with that.

    Reform wants to be able to point to Advance/Restore and say "see! they're the real nasty right wingers!"

    And, to a certain extent, that's the case already. Farage has been able to point to the Musk-Robinson Advance, and say "see! we're not them".

    Is there more that's possible? Sure: if Restore gets to 3-5%, and draws the fruitcakes away. But just as likely is that Restore does about as well as Advance, and no one gives a shit.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,373
    edited February 17

    Labour are obviously scared of Kemi. Any Tories thinking about getting rid of her should reflect on that.

    They really aren't.
    Then why have they made a decision that helps Farage and puts Kemi in danger? Are they stupid?
    Them’s the breaks.

    There’s some private polling doing the rounds that says in areas with Reform councils the Lab to Reform swing is much smaller than areas without Reform councils.

    More Reform councils the better for Labour in 2029.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,612

    Labour are obviously scared of Kemi. Any Tories thinking about getting rid of her should reflect on that.

    They really aren't.
    Then why have they made a decision that helps Farage and puts Kemi in danger? Are they stupid?
    Them’s the breaks.

    There’s some private polling doing the rounds that says in areas with Reform councils the Lab to Reform is much smaller than areas without Reform councils.

    More Reform councils the better for Labour in 2029.
    Got to say Reform is entertaining to watch from a distance.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,499

    Labour are obviously scared of Kemi. Any Tories thinking about getting rid of her should reflect on that.

    They really aren't.
    As a non-Tory she would be far and away my choice for Conservative Party leader. Long may PB Tories fly the flag for Kemi.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,337
    FPT If you have a very sweet tooth, a lemon and sugar pancake is much improved by a filling of Tipton's Little Scarlet.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 533

    Labour are obviously scared of Kemi. Any Tories thinking about getting rid of her should reflect on that.

    Labour treat Kemi with The contempt she deserves.

    A lightweight arrogant schoolgirl level antagonist who has no sense of anything other than her own importance.

    The mistake Labour have made is focusing too much on Farage and not enough on Polanski.

    Now that McSweeney has fallen, the obsession with Farage will swing to a coordinated effort to chop away at Polanski.

    The Tories under Badenoch are on a one way ticket to extinction.

    The emergence of Lowe only exacerbates the speed of the Tory decline. Lowe is the thinking man's new Right Wing Tory magnet, he'll take those from the old Shire Tory wing that Farage never could.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,620
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why have labour closed up on Reform in the betting odds or am I misreading them ?

    Reform have been rumbled.
    Grumpy Tory retirement home. No policies. Empty suits
    I think it’s too early to say they’ve been rumbled. They definitely have given their opponents a huge attack line as a collection of disaffected former Tories, and that could (and probably will) come back to bite them, but they’re still polling around 29-31% with most pollsters, and still have a decent lead.

    There is a lot of road left to run yet and lots of time for Reform to implode, but we’re not there yet and I’d hazard a guess we won’t be for some time - certainly not this year.
    I think those predicting the imminent demise of Reform are likely to be severely disappointed.

    On the other hand, the easy part (for them) has now been done. They've got to 30%. But they haven't managed to 'unite the right', and the Conservatives have been getting their act together in the last few months and have seen their vote share start to rise, mostly at the expense of Reform.

    Running councils might also a bit of a poisoned chalice for Reform. Promising easy savings while delivering big rises in Council Tax is unlikely to endear them to voters.

    That said, Reform are going to be the big winners in May (with the Greens also significant gainers, one would think, while the LDs are likely to put in a decent but not stellar performance).
    Interesting bit will be what happens when the Rupert the Restore Britain Bear party actually gets created. Rupie and the Nigel have a significant personal disagreement which suggests they won't be reconciled - and will work hard to take each other out.
    Well... my assumption is that it will have as little impact as the (Musk backed) Advance UK.

    Here's the thing. Farage is smart. (Yes, it's true.) He knows there are more votes by being a little to the Right of the Tories than by being a lot. He also knows that disassociating himself from really nasty racist elements (like Tommy Robinson) is a net vote winner.

    BUT.

    There are a fair number of Reform supporters who probably did vote for the BNP historically, and support them on the basis that (a) they're the best of a bad bunch, and (b) hopefully that Farage is just saying these things 'cause he has to, and he's bashed the foreigners and the EU in the past, so he's probably thinking what I'm thinking. If Advance/Reclaim/Restore/Erase&Rewind were to establish a foothold, then they might be able to pull 5% or so out of Reform. (I guess this is possible, too, if Reform's running of local councils looks no better than Lab/Lib/Con.)
    The goldilocks scenario for Reform is if Restore establish themselves not by cannibalising Reform, but by providing a foil to help Reform cannibalise the mainstream centre-right vote, with perhaps the same effect pushing the Tories onto Labour's territory.
    I would agree with that.

    Reform wants to be able to point to Advance/Restore and say "see! they're the real nasty right wingers!"

    And, to a certain extent, that's the case already. Farage has been able to point to the Musk-Robinson Advance, and say "see! we're not them".

    Is there more that's possible? Sure: if Restore gets to 3-5%, and draws the fruitcakes away. But just as likely is that Restore does about as well as Advance, and no one gives a shit.
    There are a few reasons to think they'll do better than Advance. Lowe has a bigger profile than Habib and he's shown that he's able to leverage his position as a sitting MP to promote his agenda.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,499

    Labour are obviously scared of Kemi. Any Tories thinking about getting rid of her should reflect on that.

    They really aren't.
    Then why have they made a decision that helps Farage and puts Kemi in danger? Are they stupid?
    Well Kemi said she was outraged at the postponement of the local elections until May 2027.

    The personification of a turkey voting for Christmas.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 16,751
    Ideal for Labour is a small Tory swingback at the expense of Reform. But they don’t want that to happen too soon or go too far. Somewhere between 4-6% off Reform and on to Con, and similar off Green and back to Labour, and they’re in largest party territory again, without any direct right-left swing.

    Remember the timing aspect of the locals though. The early results will be terrible for Labour, setting the media narrative. The Tory losses are more likely to happen the following day, so too most Lib Dem gains. By that point the headline - “Labour suffers shellacking in locals” - is set, and Kemi may get off fairly lightly.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,538
    edited February 17
    YouGov had others up from 2% to 4% today which may be noise or may be a nascent 'Rupert!' Couple of percent
    So on the polls due this week
    More in Common have been running 1 to 3% other in 2026
    Find Out Now 2 to 4%
    If those figures go up we might have our first tentative evidence of Lowism

    Edit and Opinium due Sat eve has been 3% other all year so far
  • carnforth said:

    FPT If you have a very sweet tooth, a lemon and sugar pancake is much improved by a filling of Tipton's Little Scarlet.

    What are we all giving up for Lent, I have decided to give up subtlety.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,499
    MelonB said:

    Ideal for Labour is a small Tory swingback at the expense of Reform. But they don’t want that to happen too soon or go too far. Somewhere between 4-6% off Reform and on to Con, and similar off Green and back to Labour, and they’re in largest party territory again, without any direct right-left swing.

    Remember the timing aspect of the locals though. The early results will be terrible for Labour, setting the media narrative. The Tory losses are more likely to happen the following day, so too most Lib Dem gains. By that point the headline - “Labour suffers shellacking in locals” - is set, and Kemi may get off fairly lightly.

    If the PB massiv is anything to go by Kemi will be fine however sub optimal the Conservative result.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,620
    Trump's statement on Jesse Jackson:

    https://x.com/TrumpDailyPosts/status/2023776936611422719

    The Reverend Jesse Jackson is Dead at 84. I knew him well, long before becoming President. He was a good man, with lots of personality, grit, and “street smarts.” He was very gregarious - Someone who truly loved people! Despite the fact that I am falsely and consistently called a Racist by the Scoundrels and Lunatics on the Radical Left, Democrats ALL, it was always my pleasure to help Jesse along the way. I provided office space for him and his Rainbow Coalition, for years, in the Trump Building at 40 Wall Street; Responded to his request for help in getting CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM passed and signed, when no other President would even try; Single handedly pushed and passed long term funding for Historically Black Colleges & Universities (HBCUs), which Jesse loved, but also, which other Presidents would not do; Responded to Jesse’s support for Opportunity Zones, the single most successful economic development package yet approved for Black business men/women, and much more. Jesse was a force of nature like few others before him. He had much to do with the Election, without acknowledgment or credit, of Barack Hussein Obama, a man who Jesse could not stand. He loved his family greatly, and to them I send my deepest sympathies and condolences. Jesse will be missed! President DONALD J. TRUMP
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,833

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why have labour closed up on Reform in the betting odds or am I misreading them ?

    Reform have been rumbled.
    Grumpy Tory retirement home. No policies. Empty suits
    I think it’s too early to say they’ve been rumbled. They definitely have given their opponents a huge attack line as a collection of disaffected former Tories, and that could (and probably will) come back to bite them, but they’re still polling around 29-31% with most pollsters, and still have a decent lead.

    There is a lot of road left to run yet and lots of time for Reform to implode, but we’re not there yet and I’d hazard a guess we won’t be for some time - certainly not this year.
    I think those predicting the imminent demise of Reform are likely to be severely disappointed.

    On the other hand, the easy part (for them) has now been done. They've got to 30%. But they haven't managed to 'unite the right', and the Conservatives have been getting their act together in the last few months and have seen their vote share start to rise, mostly at the expense of Reform.

    Running councils might also a bit of a poisoned chalice for Reform. Promising easy savings while delivering big rises in Council Tax is unlikely to endear them to voters.

    That said, Reform are going to be the big winners in May (with the Greens also significant gainers, one would think, while the LDs are likely to put in a decent but not stellar performance).
    Interesting bit will be what happens when the Rupert the Restore Britain Bear party actually gets created. Rupie and the Nigel have a significant personal disagreement which suggests they won't be reconciled - and will work hard to take each other out.
    Well... my assumption is that it will have as little impact as the (Musk backed) Advance UK.

    Here's the thing. Farage is smart. (Yes, it's true.) He knows there are more votes by being a little to the Right of the Tories than by being a lot. He also knows that disassociating himself from really nasty racist elements (like Tommy Robinson) is a net vote winner.

    BUT.

    There are a fair number of Reform supporters who probably did vote for the BNP historically, and support them on the basis that (a) they're the best of a bad bunch, and (b) hopefully that Farage is just saying these things 'cause he has to, and he's bashed the foreigners and the EU in the past, so he's probably thinking what I'm thinking. If Advance/Reclaim/Restore/Erase&Rewind were to establish a foothold, then they might be able to pull 5% or so out of Reform. (I guess this is possible, too, if Reform's running of local councils looks no better than Lab/Lib/Con.)
    The goldilocks scenario for Reform is if Restore establish themselves not by cannibalising Reform, but by providing a foil to help Reform cannibalise the mainstream centre-right vote, with perhaps the same effect pushing the Tories onto Labour's territory.
    I would agree with that.

    Reform wants to be able to point to Advance/Restore and say "see! they're the real nasty right wingers!"

    And, to a certain extent, that's the case already. Farage has been able to point to the Musk-Robinson Advance, and say "see! we're not them".

    Is there more that's possible? Sure: if Restore gets to 3-5%, and draws the fruitcakes away. But just as likely is that Restore does about as well as Advance, and no one gives a shit.
    There are a few reasons to think they'll do better than Advance. Lowe has a bigger profile than Habib and he's shown that he's able to leverage his position as a sitting MP to promote his agenda.
    Lowe comes across as the option for when you find Reform too cerebral and liable to compromise.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,499

    Trump's statement on Jesse Jackson:

    https://x.com/TrumpDailyPosts/status/2023776936611422719

    The Reverend Jesse Jackson is Dead at 84. I knew him well, long before becoming President. He was a good man, with lots of personality, grit, and “street smarts.” He was very gregarious - Someone who truly loved people! Despite the fact that I am falsely and consistently called a Racist by the Scoundrels and Lunatics on the Radical Left, Democrats ALL, it was always my pleasure to help Jesse along the way. I provided office space for him and his Rainbow Coalition, for years, in the Trump Building at 40 Wall Street; Responded to his request for help in getting CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM passed and signed, when no other President would even try; Single handedly pushed and passed long term funding for Historically Black Colleges & Universities (HBCUs), which Jesse loved, but also, which other Presidents would not do; Responded to Jesse’s support for Opportunity Zones, the single most successful economic development package yet approved for Black business men/women, and much more. Jesse was a force of nature like few others before him. He had much to do with the Election, without acknowledgment or credit, of Barack Hussein Obama, a man who Jesse could not stand. He loved his family greatly, and to them I send my deepest sympathies and condolences. Jesse will be missed! President DONALD J. TRUMP

    Jesse Jackson dead? That means I can create a eulogy all about...ME!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,356

    Trump's statement on Jesse Jackson:

    https://x.com/TrumpDailyPosts/status/2023776936611422719

    The Reverend Jesse Jackson is Dead at 84. I knew him well, long before becoming President. He was a good man, with lots of personality, grit, and “street smarts.” He was very gregarious - Someone who truly loved people! Despite the fact that I am falsely and consistently called a Racist by the Scoundrels and Lunatics on the Radical Left, Democrats ALL, it was always my pleasure to help Jesse along the way. I provided office space for him and his Rainbow Coalition, for years, in the Trump Building at 40 Wall Street; Responded to his request for help in getting CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM passed and signed, when no other President would even try; Single handedly pushed and passed long term funding for Historically Black Colleges & Universities (HBCUs), which Jesse loved, but also, which other Presidents would not do; Responded to Jesse’s support for Opportunity Zones, the single most successful economic development package yet approved for Black business men/women, and much more. Jesse was a force of nature like few others before him. He had much to do with the Election, without acknowledgment or credit, of Barack Hussein Obama, a man who Jesse could not stand. He loved his family greatly, and to them I send my deepest sympathies and condolences. Jesse will be missed! President DONALD J. TRUMP

    I couldn't possibly be more moved.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,499

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why have labour closed up on Reform in the betting odds or am I misreading them ?

    Reform have been rumbled.
    Grumpy Tory retirement home. No policies. Empty suits
    I think it’s too early to say they’ve been rumbled. They definitely have given their opponents a huge attack line as a collection of disaffected former Tories, and that could (and probably will) come back to bite them, but they’re still polling around 29-31% with most pollsters, and still have a decent lead.

    There is a lot of road left to run yet and lots of time for Reform to implode, but we’re not there yet and I’d hazard a guess we won’t be for some time - certainly not this year.
    I think those predicting the imminent demise of Reform are likely to be severely disappointed.

    On the other hand, the easy part (for them) has now been done. They've got to 30%. But they haven't managed to 'unite the right', and the Conservatives have been getting their act together in the last few months and have seen their vote share start to rise, mostly at the expense of Reform.

    Running councils might also a bit of a poisoned chalice for Reform. Promising easy savings while delivering big rises in Council Tax is unlikely to endear them to voters.

    That said, Reform are going to be the big winners in May (with the Greens also significant gainers, one would think, while the LDs are likely to put in a decent but not stellar performance).
    Interesting bit will be what happens when the Rupert the Restore Britain Bear party actually gets created. Rupie and the Nigel have a significant personal disagreement which suggests they won't be reconciled - and will work hard to take each other out.
    Well... my assumption is that it will have as little impact as the (Musk backed) Advance UK.

    Here's the thing. Farage is smart. (Yes, it's true.) He knows there are more votes by being a little to the Right of the Tories than by being a lot. He also knows that disassociating himself from really nasty racist elements (like Tommy Robinson) is a net vote winner.

    BUT.

    There are a fair number of Reform supporters who probably did vote for the BNP historically, and support them on the basis that (a) they're the best of a bad bunch, and (b) hopefully that Farage is just saying these things 'cause he has to, and he's bashed the foreigners and the EU in the past, so he's probably thinking what I'm thinking. If Advance/Reclaim/Restore/Erase&Rewind were to establish a foothold, then they might be able to pull 5% or so out of Reform. (I guess this is possible, too, if Reform's running of local councils looks no better than Lab/Lib/Con.)
    The goldilocks scenario for Reform is if Restore establish themselves not by cannibalising Reform, but by providing a foil to help Reform cannibalise the mainstream centre-right vote, with perhaps the same effect pushing the Tories onto Labour's territory.
    I would agree with that.

    Reform wants to be able to point to Advance/Restore and say "see! they're the real nasty right wingers!"

    And, to a certain extent, that's the case already. Farage has been able to point to the Musk-Robinson Advance, and say "see! we're not them".

    Is there more that's possible? Sure: if Restore gets to 3-5%, and draws the fruitcakes away. But just as likely is that Restore does about as well as Advance, and no one gives a shit.
    There are a few reasons to think they'll do better than Advance. Lowe has a bigger profile than Habib and he's shown that he's able to leverage his position as a sitting MP to promote his agenda.
    Lowe comes across as the option for when you find Reform too cerebral and liable to compromise.
    A party for people who believe a party led by a lifelong racist isn't racist enough.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,680

    Trump's statement on Jesse Jackson:

    https://x.com/TrumpDailyPosts/status/2023776936611422719

    The Reverend Jesse Jackson is Dead at 84. I knew him well, long before becoming President. He was a good man, with lots of personality, grit, and “street smarts.” He was very gregarious - Someone who truly loved people! Despite the fact that I am falsely and consistently called a Racist by the Scoundrels and Lunatics on the Radical Left, Democrats ALL, it was always my pleasure to help Jesse along the way. I provided office space for him and his Rainbow Coalition, for years, in the Trump Building at 40 Wall Street; Responded to his request for help in getting CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM passed and signed, when no other President would even try; Single handedly pushed and passed long term funding for Historically Black Colleges & Universities (HBCUs), which Jesse loved, but also, which other Presidents would not do; Responded to Jesse’s support for Opportunity Zones, the single most successful economic development package yet approved for Black business men/women, and much more. Jesse was a force of nature like few others before him. He had much to do with the Election, without acknowledgment or credit, of Barack Hussein Obama, a man who Jesse could not stand. He loved his family greatly, and to them I send my deepest sympathies and condolences. Jesse will be missed! President DONALD J. TRUMP

    Jesse Jackson dead? That means I can create a eulogy all about...ME!
    Trump's still pressuring Ukraine to stop the war that they started. Come on Zelenskyy, stop attacking Russia!
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,718
    Off topic, but of general importance:

    Does character count? RFK, Jr. provides an interesting test:
    On April 15, 1994, Kennedy married architect and designer Mary Kathleen Richardson, a close friend of his sister Kerry, aboard a research vessel on the Hudson River.[469][470] Kennedy has six children, two with Black and four with Richardson.[471]

    During his marriage to Richardson, Kennedy was known among his friends for sending explicit nude photos of women that they presumed he had taken, according to Vanity Fair.[29] He reportedly engaged in multiple affairs during the marriage.[472][29][473] His friends later called him a “lifelong philanderer”.[474][475] On May 12, 2010, Kennedy filed for divorce from Richardson. On May 16, 2012, Richardson was found dead in a building on the grounds of her home in Bedford, New York. The Westchester County Medical Examiner ruled the death a suicide due to asphyxiation from hanging.

    Before her death, Richardson had discovered Kennedy’s personal journal from 2001, in which he recorded sexual encounters with 37 different women. According to Kennedy, Richardson passed the journal along “to her sisters with instructions that, if anything happened to her, [it should be] published in the press”.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy_Jr.#Personal_life

    I have long said that — if a man’s wife doesn’t trust him — neither should we.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,011
    The new moon has been sighted.

    Ramadan Kareem to all those who observe.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,538
    edited February 17
    If you want a rough guide on what might happen to the Tories in the Counties in May, in 2021 they got 35 to 40% NEV depending on if you follow the Beeb or Thrasher.
    17.5% to 20% NEV doesnt seem out of the way as a prediction for 2026.
    Go look up the results from 2021 and half the Tory % and anywhere they are still over 30% they stand a good chance of holding/will be targetting hardest. If they can creep that NEV into the low 20s they'll be in better shape.
    I'd rather be defending in Norfolk than Suffolk round this way, although they might do well in Nick Timothy's neck of the woods
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,432

    Trump's statement on Jesse Jackson:

    https://x.com/TrumpDailyPosts/status/2023776936611422719

    The Reverend Jesse Jackson is Dead at 84. I knew him well, long before becoming President. He was a good man, with lots of personality, grit, and “street smarts.” He was very gregarious - Someone who truly loved people! Despite the fact that I am falsely and consistently called a Racist by the Scoundrels and Lunatics on the Radical Left, Democrats ALL, it was always my pleasure to help Jesse along the way. I provided office space for him and his Rainbow Coalition, for years, in the Trump Building at 40 Wall Street; Responded to his request for help in getting CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM passed and signed, when no other President would even try; Single handedly pushed and passed long term funding for Historically Black Colleges & Universities (HBCUs), which Jesse loved, but also, which other Presidents would not do; Responded to Jesse’s support for Opportunity Zones, the single most successful economic development package yet approved for Black business men/women, and much more. Jesse was a force of nature like few others before him. He had much to do with the Election, without acknowledgment or credit, of Barack Hussein Obama, a man who Jesse could not stand. He loved his family greatly, and to them I send my deepest sympathies and condolences. Jesse will be missed! President DONALD J. TRUMP

    Jesse Jackson on Trump.

    “The language of Donald Trump has been a source of shame for our nation. Humiliation and untruth.”

    “Trump wants to pull us back into white supremacy.”
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,848
    edited February 17
    I respect John Curtice as well and he may be right for those strong reform areas

    However, the story of the night will be Scotland and Wales and labour's performance with Starmer in the cross hairs

    I know there are several anti Kemi posters on here, but if the conservative party think the way forward is another change of leader to Cleverly then they have not learnt their lesson

    This is a marathon, not a sprint and despite the attacks on Kemi, some verging on the very unpleasant, I expect her to remain in office

    I was going to vote Plaid in May, but both my wife and I will vote conservative
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,432
    edited February 17

    Off topic, but of general importance:

    Does character count? RFK, Jr. provides an interesting test:

    On April 15, 1994, Kennedy married architect and designer Mary Kathleen Richardson, a close friend of his sister Kerry, aboard a research vessel on the Hudson River.[469][470] Kennedy has six children, two with Black and four with Richardson.[471]

    During his marriage to Richardson, Kennedy was known among his friends for sending explicit nude photos of women that they presumed he had taken, according to Vanity Fair.[29] He reportedly engaged in multiple affairs during the marriage.[472][29][473] His friends later called him a “lifelong philanderer”.[474][475] On May 12, 2010, Kennedy filed for divorce from Richardson. On May 16, 2012, Richardson was found dead in a building on the grounds of her home in Bedford, New York. The Westchester County Medical Examiner ruled the death a suicide due to asphyxiation from hanging.

    Before her death, Richardson had discovered Kennedy’s personal journal from 2001, in which he recorded sexual encounters with 37 different women. According to Kennedy, Richardson passed the journal along “to her sisters with instructions that, if anything happened to her, [it should be] published in the press”.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy_Jr.#Personal_life

    I have long said that — if a man’s wife doesn’t trust him — neither should we.

    Would that be first, second or third wife ?

    (Asking for a president.)

    Btw, Jim, if you use blockquotes within your post, it messes up the blockquotes in any replies.
    Best to use italics instead,
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 533

    carnforth said:

    FPT If you have a very sweet tooth, a lemon and sugar pancake is much improved by a filling of Tipton's Little Scarlet.

    What are we all giving up for Lent, I have decided to give up subtlety.
    I commit as of now not to attack Kemi in name personally

    It obviously upsets some respected scribes so I will relent(no pun intended)
  • carnforth said:

    FPT If you have a very sweet tooth, a lemon and sugar pancake is much improved by a filling of Tipton's Little Scarlet.

    What are we all giving up for Lent, I have decided to give up subtlety.
    You mean you're not giving up PB? :lol:
  • Brixian59 said:

    carnforth said:

    FPT If you have a very sweet tooth, a lemon and sugar pancake is much improved by a filling of Tipton's Little Scarlet.

    What are we all giving up for Lent, I have decided to give up subtlety.
    I commit as of now not to attack Kemi in name personally

    It obviously upsets some respected scribes so I will relent(no pun intended)
    Aspire!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,332
    Farage and the FT journalist question at 1 hour, 17 mins, 19 secs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuILCLp_p5U
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,255
    MelonB said:

    Ideal for Labour is a small Tory swingback at the expense of Reform. But they don’t want that to happen too soon or go too far. Somewhere between 4-6% off Reform and on to Con, and similar off Green and back to Labour, and they’re in largest party territory again, without any direct right-left swing.

    Remember the timing aspect of the locals though. The early results will be terrible for Labour, setting the media narrative. The Tory losses are more likely to happen the following day, so too most Lib Dem gains. By that point the headline - “Labour suffers shellacking in locals” - is set, and Kemi may get off fairly lightly.

    Indeed: a right that is split almost equally between Reform and the Conservatives, and where there is limited tactical voting between the two, is manna from heaven for the left.

  • The story of the night will be a mix of whichever area counts quickest, and wherever the journalists have stuck their outside broadcast units.

    Although Curtice is likely right on the substance of the outcome. I suspect a lot of talk on the night to be about Labour performance in Scotland and Wales (with a little bit about Conservative performance in those places). They are the Government after all. Then it will be about performances in the cities where the journos live and finally the counties of England. Of course the interesting thing is whether that chatter stays that way and keeps pressure on Starmer or turns to the Conservative performance. If the latter Badenoch may find life uncomfortable if the predictions prove correct.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,680
    edited February 17
    Andy_JS said:

    Farage and the FT journalist question at 1 hour, 17 mins, 19 secs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuILCLp_p5U

    Just so you know, if you click on the share button on Youtube, there's an option to make a link so that it starts the video where you want it to.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,332
    Reform UK are starting to get a bit irritating for some reason.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,432
    edited February 17
    Having got away with stealing classified documents, Trump is now going to make the evidence of his crime disappear.

    https://x.com/TheRealThelmaJ1/status/2023567698521739348
    On February 24th the Department of Justice is going to destroy all copies of Jack Smith's secret Mar-a-Lago report. Criminal.

    See also:
    https://americanoversight.org/american-oversight-appeals-judge-cannon-order-that-could-clear-way-for-trump-to-permanently-destroy-jack-smith-report/
  • Andy_JS said:

    Farage and the FT journalist question at 1 hour, 17 mins, 19 secs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuILCLp_p5U

    Farage has been learning from his buddy in the Whitehouse it seems. Pretty worrying behaviour, and pretty disingenuous given FT were the first paper to really start chasing the Epstein / Mandelson story. Yuk.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,620
    https://x.com/PalantirTech/status/2023780511051809010

    We have moved our headquarters to Miami, Florida.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,521
    I'd expect Reform to win Sunderland outright, which will be the first result to declare. After that, I'd expect them to win all of Essex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Newcastle under Lyme, Sandwell, Walsall, Wakefield, Havering, and Bexley. They will likely get to largest party status, in Portsmouth and Gosport.

    I think the Lib Dems will gain West Surrey, and perhaps East. I'd expect East and West Sussex and Hampshire to be NOC. I'm not sure which will be the largest party.

    I see no change in the mayoralties.

    I think Labour will lose Bradford, Birmingham, Calderdale, Kirklees to NOC, in addition to losing Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Sunderland, Wakefield, and Sandwell to Reform. I expect them to lose Croydon, Westminster, and Barnet to the Conservatives, perhaps Enfield and Wandsworth, as well. I'd expect them to lose Camden to NOC, and perhaps Hackney, Haringey, and Islington, in the face of a strong Green challenge.

    I think the Conservatives will lose Bromley to NOC, in addition to the counties mentioned above, and Newcastle under Lyme.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,538
    edited February 17
    "
    Sean_F said:

    I'd expect Reform to win Sunderland outright, which will be the first result to declare. After that, I'd expect them to win all of Essex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Newcastle under Lyme, Sandwell, Walsall, Wakefield, Havering, and Bexley. They will likely get to largest party status, in Portsmouth and Gosport.

    I think the Lib Dems will gain West Surrey, and perhaps East. I'd expect East and West Sussex and Hampshire to be NOC. I'm not sure which will be the largest party.

    I see no change in the mayoralties.

    I think Labour will lose Bradford, Birmingham, Calderdale, Kirklees to NOC, in addition to losing Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Sunderland, Wakefield, and Sandwell to Reform. I expect them to lose Croydon, Westminster, and Barnet to the Conservatives, perhaps Enfield and Wandsworth, as well. I'd expect them to lose Camden to NOC, and perhaps Hackney, Haringey, and Islington, in the face of a strong Green challenge.

    I think the Conservatives will lose Bromley to NOC, in addition to the counties mentioned above, and Newcastle under Lyme.

    Dont disagree with much of that at all really with the possible exceptions of Norfolk and Suffolk being NoC, Ref largest party, particularly my home patch of Norfolk.
  • https://x.com/PalantirTech/status/2023780511051809010

    We have moved our headquarters to Miami, Florida.

    For tax reasons, presumably.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,356
    Sean_F said:

    I'd expect Reform to win Sunderland outright, which will be the first result to declare. After that, I'd expect them to win all of Essex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Newcastle under Lyme, Sandwell, Walsall, Wakefield, Havering, and Bexley. They will likely get to largest party status, in Portsmouth and Gosport.

    I think the Lib Dems will gain West Surrey, and perhaps East. I'd expect East and West Sussex and Hampshire to be NOC. I'm not sure which will be the largest party.

    I see no change in the mayoralties.

    I think Labour will lose Bradford, Birmingham, Calderdale, Kirklees to NOC, in addition to losing Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Sunderland, Wakefield, and Sandwell to Reform. I expect them to lose Croydon, Westminster, and Barnet to the Conservatives, perhaps Enfield and Wandsworth, as well. I'd expect them to lose Camden to NOC, and perhaps Hackney, Haringey, and Islington, in the face of a strong Green challenge.

    I think the Conservatives will lose Bromley to NOC, in addition to the counties mentioned above, and Newcastle under Lyme.

    If Sunderland then why not Gateshead and South Tyneside too?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,011

    https://x.com/PalantirTech/status/2023780511051809010

    We have moved our headquarters to Miami, Florida.

    For tax reasons, presumably.
    Of course. California and Delaware are losing a lot of company registrations, mostly to Florida and Texas.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,926
    Sandpit said:

    The new moon has been sighted.

    Ramadan Kareem to all those who observe.

    Was it in doubt? Surely astronomical prediction is pretty accurate in 2026?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,971
    carnforth said:

    FPT If you have a very sweet tooth, a lemon and sugar pancake is much improved by a filling of Tipton's Little Scarlet.

    Try Tipton's Loganberry.

    Finest Conserve In The World.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,971

    The story of the night will be a mix of whichever area counts quickest, and wherever the journalists have stuck their outside broadcast units.

    Although Curtice is likely right on the substance of the outcome. I suspect a lot of talk on the night to be about Labour performance in Scotland and Wales (with a little bit about Conservative performance in those places). They are the Government after all. Then it will be about performances in the cities where the journos live and finally the counties of England. Of course the interesting thing is whether that chatter stays that way and keeps pressure on Starmer or turns to the Conservative performance. If the latter Badenoch may find life uncomfortable if the predictions prove correct.

    Don't forget where the journos have their second homes - and the position of the new council on second home taxes...
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,680

    Sandpit said:

    The new moon has been sighted.

    Ramadan Kareem to all those who observe.

    Was it in doubt? Surely astronomical prediction is pretty accurate in 2026?
    Given there are people who think the Earth is flat, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there are people who think the Moon doesn't exist.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,011

    Sandpit said:

    The new moon has been sighted.

    Ramadan Kareem to all those who observe.

    Was it in doubt? Surely astronomical prediction is pretty accurate in 2026?
    My office thought it was 80/20 the other way as we left today, and most of them are observers of these things.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,422

    The story of the night will be a mix of whichever area counts quickest, and wherever the journalists have stuck their outside broadcast units.

    Although Curtice is likely right on the substance of the outcome. I suspect a lot of talk on the night to be about Labour performance in Scotland and Wales (with a little bit about Conservative performance in those places). They are the Government after all. Then it will be about performances in the cities where the journos live and finally the counties of England. Of course the interesting thing is whether that chatter stays that way and keeps pressure on Starmer or turns to the Conservative performance. If the latter Badenoch may find life uncomfortable if the predictions prove correct.

    Don't forget where the journos have their second homes - and the position of the new council on second home taxes...
    Of course, journalistic ethics would require them to disclose that...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,521
    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'd expect Reform to win Sunderland outright, which will be the first result to declare. After that, I'd expect them to win all of Essex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Newcastle under Lyme, Sandwell, Walsall, Wakefield, Havering, and Bexley. They will likely get to largest party status, in Portsmouth and Gosport.

    I think the Lib Dems will gain West Surrey, and perhaps East. I'd expect East and West Sussex and Hampshire to be NOC. I'm not sure which will be the largest party.

    I see no change in the mayoralties.

    I think Labour will lose Bradford, Birmingham, Calderdale, Kirklees to NOC, in addition to losing Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Sunderland, Wakefield, and Sandwell to Reform. I expect them to lose Croydon, Westminster, and Barnet to the Conservatives, perhaps Enfield and Wandsworth, as well. I'd expect them to lose Camden to NOC, and perhaps Hackney, Haringey, and Islington, in the face of a strong Green challenge.

    I think the Conservatives will lose Bromley to NOC, in addition to the counties mentioned above, and Newcastle under Lyme.

    If Sunderland then why not Gateshead and South Tyneside too?
    Gateshead is too much like Newcastle, and South Tyneside has a big Green vote. I think that Reform should pick up a decent haul of seats in the latter (on reflection, it will probably be another Labour loss), but not enough to win outright. Sunderland is more like Hartlepool and Durham.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,886
    Sean_F said:

    I'd expect Reform to win Sunderland outright, which will be the first result to declare. After that, I'd expect them to win all of Essex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Newcastle under Lyme, Sandwell, Walsall, Wakefield, Havering, and Bexley. They will likely get to largest party status, in Portsmouth and Gosport.

    I think the Lib Dems will gain West Surrey, and perhaps East. I'd expect East and West Sussex and Hampshire to be NOC. I'm not sure which will be the largest party.

    I see no change in the mayoralties.

    I think Labour will lose Bradford, Birmingham, Calderdale, Kirklees to NOC, in addition to losing Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Sunderland, Wakefield, and Sandwell to Reform. I expect them to lose Croydon, Westminster, and Barnet to the Conservatives, perhaps Enfield and Wandsworth, as well. I'd expect them to lose Camden to NOC, and perhaps Hackney, Haringey, and Islington, in the face of a strong Green challenge.

    I think the Conservatives will lose Bromley to NOC, in addition to the counties mentioned above, and Newcastle under Lyme.

    Is the combined Cheshire and Warrington mayoralty back on the agenda for 2026 now? That looks attractive for Reform.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 533

    carnforth said:

    FPT If you have a very sweet tooth, a lemon and sugar pancake is much improved by a filling of Tipton's Little Scarlet.

    Try Tipton's Loganberry.

    Finest Conserve In The World.
    Here's me thinking you were referring to Tipton, home of The Lost City
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,538
    Norfolk and Suffolk are less like Kent/Essex and more like Lincs but with added strong areas for LD and Lab/Green. Thats part of why i expect NoC.
    Time will tell
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,015
    Sandpit said:

    The new moon has been sighted.

    Ramadan Kareem to all those who observe.

    Sadly, for Duran Duran fans, it’s not a new moon on Monday.
  • carnforth said:

    FPT If you have a very sweet tooth, a lemon and sugar pancake is much improved by a filling of Tipton's Little Scarlet.

    Try Tipton's Loganberry.

    Finest Conserve In The World.
    I'd guess you mean Tiptree's?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,514
    edited February 17
    In immigration news, FO has found a new wheeze to pi** off the British but not British. They can F.O. if they think they can collect £589 from me. Another U-turn in the making.

    Under the existing rules, a dual national is able to travel to the UK using a passport issued by a second country - but from 25 February that will no longer be the case.

    Instead, they will need to show either a British passport, or a document called a certificate of entitlement - and without one of them, they could face being denied the right to travel back to the UK.


    Emirates Airlines in Dubai tried something similar about a year ago and got educated.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2d9yk2kpjo
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,356
    Sean_F said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'd expect Reform to win Sunderland outright, which will be the first result to declare. After that, I'd expect them to win all of Essex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Newcastle under Lyme, Sandwell, Walsall, Wakefield, Havering, and Bexley. They will likely get to largest party status, in Portsmouth and Gosport.

    I think the Lib Dems will gain West Surrey, and perhaps East. I'd expect East and West Sussex and Hampshire to be NOC. I'm not sure which will be the largest party.

    I see no change in the mayoralties.

    I think Labour will lose Bradford, Birmingham, Calderdale, Kirklees to NOC, in addition to losing Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Sunderland, Wakefield, and Sandwell to Reform. I expect them to lose Croydon, Westminster, and Barnet to the Conservatives, perhaps Enfield and Wandsworth, as well. I'd expect them to lose Camden to NOC, and perhaps Hackney, Haringey, and Islington, in the face of a strong Green challenge.

    I think the Conservatives will lose Bromley to NOC, in addition to the counties mentioned above, and Newcastle under Lyme.

    If Sunderland then why not Gateshead and South I'm Tyneside too?
    Gateshead is too much like Newcastle, and South Tyneside has a big Green vote. I think that Reform should pick up a decent haul of seats in the latter (on reflection, it will probably be another Labour loss), but not enough to win outright. Sunderland is more like Hartlepool and Durham.
    I'm not so sure.
    Gateshead really isn't much like Newcastle.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,015
    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'd expect Reform to win Sunderland outright, which will be the first result to declare. After that, I'd expect them to win all of Essex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Newcastle under Lyme, Sandwell, Walsall, Wakefield, Havering, and Bexley. They will likely get to largest party status, in Portsmouth and Gosport.

    I think the Lib Dems will gain West Surrey, and perhaps East. I'd expect East and West Sussex and Hampshire to be NOC. I'm not sure which will be the largest party.

    I see no change in the mayoralties.

    I think Labour will lose Bradford, Birmingham, Calderdale, Kirklees to NOC, in addition to losing Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Sunderland, Wakefield, and Sandwell to Reform. I expect them to lose Croydon, Westminster, and Barnet to the Conservatives, perhaps Enfield and Wandsworth, as well. I'd expect them to lose Camden to NOC, and perhaps Hackney, Haringey, and Islington, in the face of a strong Green challenge.

    I think the Conservatives will lose Bromley to NOC, in addition to the counties mentioned above, and Newcastle under Lyme.

    If Sunderland then why not Gateshead and South Tyneside too?
    I’d expect Reform to do well in both, possibly gaining one. Certainly move to NOC.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,023

    dixiedean said:

    I expect it will be a bloodbath for both Tories and Labour.
    But the results in a handful of London Boroughs where journalists live will be the headline whatever happens.

    The stepmom analogy will need updating.
    You mean a film with two step moms and 5 stepsons - one only born about a week ago so is represented by a sound effect?

    On a slightly related note of “mucky thoughts” - I have the hots for jodi balfour.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,833
    Sandpit said:

    https://x.com/PalantirTech/status/2023780511051809010

    We have moved our headquarters to Miami, Florida.

    For tax reasons, presumably.
    Of course. California and Delaware are losing a lot of company registrations, mostly to Florida and Texas.
    Do you have stats?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,023

    YouGov had others up from 2% to 4% today which may be noise or may be a nascent 'Rupert!' Couple of percent
    So on the polls due this week
    More in Common have been running 1 to 3% other in 2026
    Find Out Now 2 to 4%
    If those figures go up we might have our first tentative evidence of Lowism

    Edit and Opinium due Sat eve has been 3% other all year so far

    Rupert the Fear.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,833
    Battlebus said:

    In immigration news, FO has found a new wheeze to pi** off the British but not British. They can F.O. if they think they can collect £589 from me. Another U-turn in the making.

    Under the existing rules, a dual national is able to travel to the UK using a passport issued by a second country - but from 25 February that will no longer be the case.

    Instead, they will need to show either a British passport, or a document called a certificate of entitlement - and without one of them, they could face being denied the right to travel back to the UK.


    Emirates Airlines in Dubai tried something similar about a year ago and got educated.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2d9yk2kpjo

    Will this even apply to Irish passports?
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,015

    I respect John Curtice as well and he may be right for those strong reform areas

    However, the story of the night will be Scotland and Wales and labour's performance with Starmer in the cross hairs

    I know there are several anti Kemi posters on here, but if the conservative party think the way forward is another change of leader to Cleverly then they have not learnt their lesson

    This is a marathon, not a sprint and despite the attacks on Kemi, some verging on the very unpleasant, I expect her to remain in office

    I was going to vote Plaid in May, but both my wife and I will vote conservative

    Admittedly I’m no Tory and not likely to vote for them but I do get the feeling Kemi has steadied the ship and is doing a decent job holding the hapless, Frank Spencer like, SKS to account.

    It’s a long road back for the Tories.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,680

    Battlebus said:

    In immigration news, FO has found a new wheeze to pi** off the British but not British. They can F.O. if they think they can collect £589 from me. Another U-turn in the making.

    Under the existing rules, a dual national is able to travel to the UK using a passport issued by a second country - but from 25 February that will no longer be the case.

    Instead, they will need to show either a British passport, or a document called a certificate of entitlement - and without one of them, they could face being denied the right to travel back to the UK.


    Emirates Airlines in Dubai tried something similar about a year ago and got educated.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2d9yk2kpjo

    Will this even apply to Irish passports?
    Nope. Irish passports are like upgraded British ones.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,848
    edited February 17
    Taz said:

    I respect John Curtice as well and he may be right for those strong reform areas

    However, the story of the night will be Scotland and Wales and labour's performance with Starmer in the cross hairs

    I know there are several anti Kemi posters on here, but if the conservative party think the way forward is another change of leader to Cleverly then they have not learnt their lesson

    This is a marathon, not a sprint and despite the attacks on Kemi, some verging on the very unpleasant, I expect her to remain in office

    I was going to vote Plaid in May, but both my wife and I will vote conservative

    Admittedly I’m no Tory and not likely to vote for them but I do get the feeling Kemi has steadied the ship and is doing a decent job holding the hapless, Frank Spencer like, SKS to account.

    It’s a long road back for the Tories.
    It is and it would be foolish to think otherwise

    However, I am convinced when the public see Farage and his colleagues there will be a reaction to their Trump style hate policies

    My wife has fallen for Kemi saying she is new, interesting, and seems ready to take on the 'man's world' of politics

    We will see how this spring plays out but Starmer has more to fear from May 26
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,788
    CatMan said:

    Battlebus said:

    In immigration news, FO has found a new wheeze to pi** off the British but not British. They can F.O. if they think they can collect £589 from me. Another U-turn in the making.

    Under the existing rules, a dual national is able to travel to the UK using a passport issued by a second country - but from 25 February that will no longer be the case.

    Instead, they will need to show either a British passport, or a document called a certificate of entitlement - and without one of them, they could face being denied the right to travel back to the UK.


    Emirates Airlines in Dubai tried something similar about a year ago and got educated.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2d9yk2kpjo

    Will this even apply to Irish passports?
    Nope. Irish passports are like upgraded British ones.
    The Irish passport really is the king of passports. Watching the Brits sweat in various European passport queues as they sail through serenely must be some sweet Irish karma for those centuries of oppression.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,521
    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'd expect Reform to win Sunderland outright, which will be the first result to declare. After that, I'd expect them to win all of Essex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Newcastle under Lyme, Sandwell, Walsall, Wakefield, Havering, and Bexley. They will likely get to largest party status, in Portsmouth and Gosport.

    I think the Lib Dems will gain West Surrey, and perhaps East. I'd expect East and West Sussex and Hampshire to be NOC. I'm not sure which will be the largest party.

    I see no change in the mayoralties.

    I think Labour will lose Bradford, Birmingham, Calderdale, Kirklees to NOC, in addition to losing Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Sunderland, Wakefield, and Sandwell to Reform. I expect them to lose Croydon, Westminster, and Barnet to the Conservatives, perhaps Enfield and Wandsworth, as well. I'd expect them to lose Camden to NOC, and perhaps Hackney, Haringey, and Islington, in the face of a strong Green challenge.

    I think the Conservatives will lose Bromley to NOC, in addition to the counties mentioned above, and Newcastle under Lyme.

    If Sunderland then why not Gateshead and South I'm Tyneside too?
    Gateshead is too much like Newcastle, and South Tyneside has a big Green vote. I think that Reform should pick up a decent haul of seats in the latter (on reflection, it will probably be another Labour loss), but not enough to win outright. Sunderland is more like Hartlepool and Durham.
    I'm not so sure.
    Gateshead really isn't much like Newcastle.
    Politically though, it's a Labour/Lib Dem battleground.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,800
    Foss said:

    The story of the night will be a mix of whichever area counts quickest, and wherever the journalists have stuck their outside broadcast units.

    Although Curtice is likely right on the substance of the outcome. I suspect a lot of talk on the night to be about Labour performance in Scotland and Wales (with a little bit about Conservative performance in those places). They are the Government after all. Then it will be about performances in the cities where the journos live and finally the counties of England. Of course the interesting thing is whether that chatter stays that way and keeps pressure on Starmer or turns to the Conservative performance. If the latter Badenoch may find life uncomfortable if the predictions prove correct.

    Don't forget where the journos have their second homes - and the position of the new council on second home taxes...
    Of course, journalistic ethics would require them to disclose that...
    I would be surprised if any leading journalists have second homes in Ethics.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,788
    The death of the Rev Jesse Jackson really does feel like the end of an era. I'm not sure there's any other major western political figure still on the scene who has been active for my entire life. People like Clinton I remember bursting onto the scene but Jackson was there back in the 60s and 70s. Maybe Heseltine is the only equivalent in UK politics who still has some presence now and goes back to the 70s. I can't think of anyone else. The King, I suppose.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,023
    edited February 17

    I respect John Curtice as well and he may be right for those strong reform areas

    However, the story of the night will be Scotland and Wales and labour's performance with Starmer in the cross hairs

    I know there are several anti Kemi posters on here, but if the conservative party think the way forward is another change of leader to Cleverly then they have not learnt their lesson

    This is a marathon, not a sprint and despite the attacks on Kemi, some verging on the very unpleasant, I expect her to remain in office

    I was going to vote Plaid in May, but both my wife and I will vote conservative

    I didn’t think you’d like this thread header.

    If Kemi is so wonderful then, we have a fine Conservative Party policy created and honed by Conservative government hand in hand with Conservative councils to scrap councils and five thousand councillors, streamlining to save money. In order to run down councils in a sound money saving, resource diverting to the reorg, way, the conservatives in government postponed local council elections, Conservative governments that Kemi, and most her front bench, were a part of.

    So now in opposition, why the hell is she vehemently against exactly the same thing?

    That 100% brass neck opportunistic nature of her’s is 100% hideous, is it not?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,538
    The Lowegasm may be overstated..... 92% do not recognise him, up from 86% last year

    https://x.com/i/status/2023801397138047248
  • I respect John Curtice as well and he may be right for those strong reform areas

    However, the story of the night will be Scotland and Wales and labour's performance with Starmer in the cross hairs

    I know there are several anti Kemi posters on here, but if the conservative party think the way forward is another change of leader to Cleverly then they have not learnt their lesson

    This is a marathon, not a sprint and despite the attacks on Kemi, some verging on the very unpleasant, I expect her to remain in office

    I was going to vote Plaid in May, but both my wife and I will vote conservative

    I didn’t think you’d like this thread header.

    If Kemi is so wonderful then, we have a fine Conservative Party policy created and honed by Conservative government hand in hand with Conservative councils to scrap councils and five thousand councillors, streamlining to save money. In order to run down councils in a sound money saving, resource diverting to the reorg, way, the conservatives in government postponed some local elections, Conservative governments that Kemi was a part of.

    So now in opposition, why the hell is she vehemently against exactly the same thing?

    That 100% brass neck opportunistic nature of her’s is 100% hideous, is it not?
    Ok - you don't like her
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,514
    edited February 17
    CatMan said:

    Battlebus said:

    In immigration news, FO has found a new wheeze to pi** off the British but not British. They can F.O. if they think they can collect £589 from me. Another U-turn in the making.

    Under the existing rules, a dual national is able to travel to the UK using a passport issued by a second country - but from 25 February that will no longer be the case.

    Instead, they will need to show either a British passport, or a document called a certificate of entitlement - and without one of them, they could face being denied the right to travel back to the UK.


    Emirates Airlines in Dubai tried something similar about a year ago and got educated.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2d9yk2kpjo

    Will this even apply to Irish passports?
    Nope. Irish passports are like upgraded British ones.
    As its a FTA, then no but the indications are that false passports are becoming better and access to a multi-country passport database geographically close has been removed. q.e.d. they need another process to be able to verify non-UK UK residents (who may or may not be British).
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,620
    https://x.com/nationalpost/status/2023760613315350864

    'One of the most unheralded stories of last year was the increase in Canadian exports to the United Kingdom, to the point Britain has become this country’s second-largest export market, overtaking China'
  • PhilPhil Posts: 3,165
    edited February 17
    Our choice of Eurovision candidate is extra specially British this year, in a distinctly “men in sheds create works of genius” kind of way.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clygz17y5kdo
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,287

    CatMan said:

    Battlebus said:

    In immigration news, FO has found a new wheeze to pi** off the British but not British. They can F.O. if they think they can collect £589 from me. Another U-turn in the making.

    Under the existing rules, a dual national is able to travel to the UK using a passport issued by a second country - but from 25 February that will no longer be the case.

    Instead, they will need to show either a British passport, or a document called a certificate of entitlement - and without one of them, they could face being denied the right to travel back to the UK.


    Emirates Airlines in Dubai tried something similar about a year ago and got educated.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2d9yk2kpjo

    Will this even apply to Irish passports?
    Nope. Irish passports are like upgraded British ones.
    The Irish passport really is the king of passports. Watching the Brits sweat in various European passport queues as they sail through serenely must be some sweet Irish karma for those centuries of oppression.
    If you are Irish and still holding petty grudges about things that happened before your parents were born when you come from a country that’s generally happy and successful then you need to give your head a wobble. Do they feel guilty about taking tax from other countries’ exchequers by allowing multi-nationals to base themselves there under beneficial tax arrangements? Or letting other countries pick up their slack to ensure Europe is safe? Do they snark at scandi countries for Viking enslavement? I think they should look forward and enjoy the country they have become rather than a moment of tumescence at a British family spending longer in passport queues.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,538

    The Lowegasm may be overstated..... 92% do not recognise him, up from 86% last year

    https://x.com/i/status/2023801397138047248

    74% recognise Farage, 8% Lowe.
    If his party is slso a tenth of the impact he gets the 3% mentioned earlier ;)
    Restore = Pearson or Nuttalls UKIP or Griffin 2010 or, perhaps more appositely as he stood for them, Referendum 97
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,118
    edited February 17

    Sandpit said:

    The new moon has been sighted.

    Ramadan Kareem to all those who observe.

    Was it in doubt? Surely astronomical prediction is pretty accurate in 2026?
    The astronomical prediction of the position and phase of the moon is very accurate, but AIUI, the crescent moon must actually be observed for Ramadan to begin. There will always be a short but somewhat unpredictable interval between the crescent moon first becoming theoretically observable and it actually being observed.

    Edit: This of course may vary depending on the observer's position on the Earth, which means that the start of Ramadan may be celebrated on different days in different countries.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,422
    Phil said:

    Our choice of Eurovision candidate is extra specially British this year, in a distinctly “men in sheds create works of genius” kind of way.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clygz17y5kdo

    His Youtube channel makes for good background listening.
  • https://x.com/nationalpost/status/2023760613315350864

    'One of the most unheralded stories of last year was the increase in Canadian exports to the United Kingdom, to the point Britain has become this country’s second-largest export market, overtaking China'

    Carney is without doubt head and shoulders above any European leader

    Indeed he wants the EU and CPTPP to negotiate a trade agreement between their 2 blocks serving the interests of 1. 5 billion people
  • https://x.com/nationalpost/status/2023760613315350864

    'One of the most unheralded stories of last year was the increase in Canadian exports to the United Kingdom, to the point Britain has become this country’s second-largest export market, overtaking China'

    Carney is without doubt head and shoulders above any European leader

    Indeed he wants the EU and CPTPP to negotiate a trade agreement between their 2 blocks serving the interests of 1. 5 billion people
    I suspect some of those who laughed at the UK joining the CPTPP won't be laughing any more if that happens.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,023
    edited February 17

    I respect John Curtice as well and he may be right for those strong reform areas

    However, the story of the night will be Scotland and Wales and labour's performance with Starmer in the cross hairs

    I know there are several anti Kemi posters on here, but if the conservative party think the way forward is another change of leader to Cleverly then they have not learnt their lesson

    This is a marathon, not a sprint and despite the attacks on Kemi, some verging on the very unpleasant, I expect her to remain in office

    I was going to vote Plaid in May, but both my wife and I will vote conservative

    I didn’t think you’d like this thread header.

    If Kemi is so wonderful then, we have a fine Conservative Party policy created and honed by Conservative government hand in hand with Conservative councils to scrap councils and five thousand councillors, streamlining to save money. In order to run down councils in a sound money saving, resource diverting to the reorg, way, the conservatives in government postponed some local elections, Conservative governments that Kemi was a part of.

    So now in opposition, why the hell is she vehemently against exactly the same thing?

    That 100% brass neck opportunistic nature of her’s is 100% hideous, is it not?
    Ok - you don't like her
    I think the policies are rubbish. But the lying is just insane. Just can’t get away with such lying. Everything in government is minuted.

    There is no way, under any form of reason or possibility, Labour negotiated and signed off the Chagos agreement with Mauritius in just 8 weeks. We know the Conservative Party had 11 rounds of negotiation plus a PM to PM summit creating the current Chagos deal - Conservative government told the house of commons and committee this, we know all the most contentious items had been agreed before Labour came to power - so why is Kemi both the biggest critic of the Chagos deal, denies the Conservatives had anything to do with it, and claims it’s wholly Labours Chagos deal?

    It’s not only it’s a dammed lie, it’s the fact Kemi can’t actually lie about this. Labour only have to publish the minutes of the 11 rounds of Conservative negotiation and the plan A document they inherited, and the Kemi leadership and her front bench dies instantly, on the spot.
  • https://x.com/nationalpost/status/2023760613315350864

    'One of the most unheralded stories of last year was the increase in Canadian exports to the United Kingdom, to the point Britain has become this country’s second-largest export market, overtaking China'

    Carney is without doubt head and shoulders above any European leader

    Indeed he wants the EU and CPTPP to negotiate a trade agreement between their 2 blocks serving the interests of 1. 5 billion people
    I suspect some of those who laughed at the UK joining the CPTPP won't be laughing any more if that happens.
    And it would exclude the US

    What's not to like ?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,249
    CatMan said:

    Sandpit said:

    The new moon has been sighted.

    Ramadan Kareem to all those who observe.

    Was it in doubt? Surely astronomical prediction is pretty accurate in 2026?
    Given there are people who think the Earth is flat, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there are people who think the Moon doesn't exist.
    Some people don't think that it's made of cheese ...
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,287

    https://x.com/nationalpost/status/2023760613315350864

    'One of the most unheralded stories of last year was the increase in Canadian exports to the United Kingdom, to the point Britain has become this country’s second-largest export market, overtaking China'

    Carney is without doubt head and shoulders above any European leader

    Indeed he wants the EU and CPTPP to negotiate a trade agreement between their 2 blocks serving the interests of 1. 5 billion people
    I suspect some of those who laughed at the UK joining the CPTPP won't be laughing any more if that happens.
    There seems to be a groundswell on social media in favour of CANZUK. A lot of Aussies seem to be pushing it since Carney’s impending visit to Australia was announced.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,680

    https://x.com/nationalpost/status/2023760613315350864

    'One of the most unheralded stories of last year was the increase in Canadian exports to the United Kingdom, to the point Britain has become this country’s second-largest export market, overtaking China'

    Carney is without doubt head and shoulders above any European leader

    Indeed he wants the EU and CPTPP to negotiate a trade agreement between their 2 blocks serving the interests of 1. 5 billion people
    I suspect some of those who laughed at the UK joining the CPTPP won't be laughing any more if that happens.
    It's not quite the same though is it? The EU isn't actually joining the CPTPP.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,612
    Sean_F said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'd expect Reform to win Sunderland outright, which will be the first result to declare. After that, I'd expect them to win all of Essex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Newcastle under Lyme, Sandwell, Walsall, Wakefield, Havering, and Bexley. They will likely get to largest party status, in Portsmouth and Gosport.

    I think the Lib Dems will gain West Surrey, and perhaps East. I'd expect East and West Sussex and Hampshire to be NOC. I'm not sure which will be the largest party.

    I see no change in the mayoralties.

    I think Labour will lose Bradford, Birmingham, Calderdale, Kirklees to NOC, in addition to losing Swindon, Thurrock, Barnsley, Sunderland, Wakefield, and Sandwell to Reform. I expect them to lose Croydon, Westminster, and Barnet to the Conservatives, perhaps Enfield and Wandsworth, as well. I'd expect them to lose Camden to NOC, and perhaps Hackney, Haringey, and Islington, in the face of a strong Green challenge.

    I think the Conservatives will lose Bromley to NOC, in addition to the counties mentioned above, and Newcastle under Lyme.

    If Sunderland then why not Gateshead and South Tyneside too?
    Gateshead is too much like Newcastle, and South Tyneside has a big Green vote. I think that Reform should pick up a decent haul of seats in the latter (on reflection, it will probably be another Labour loss), but not enough to win outright. Sunderland is more like Hartlepool and Durham.
    County Durham, Durham City returns Lib Dems and will probably tend Green over time
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,011

    Sandpit said:

    The new moon has been sighted.

    Ramadan Kareem to all those who observe.

    Was it in doubt? Surely astronomical prediction is pretty accurate in 2026?
    The astronomical prediction of the position and phase of the moon is very accurate, but AIUI, the crescent moon must actually be observed for Ramadan to begin. There will always be a short but somewhat unpredictable interval between the crescent moon first becoming theoretically observable and it actually being observed.

    Edit: This of course may vary depending on the observer's position on the Earth, which means that the start of Ramadan may be celebrated on different days in different countries.
    Yes, with modern computers of course it’s not necessary, but it’s an ancient religious tradition to actually send the scholars up the nearest mountain with a telescope, to observe the new moon.

    The sighting at the end of this month is more ‘fun’, when you leave work not knowing if the Eid holiday is going to be tomorrow or the day after.
  • https://x.com/nationalpost/status/2023760613315350864

    'One of the most unheralded stories of last year was the increase in Canadian exports to the United Kingdom, to the point Britain has become this country’s second-largest export market, overtaking China'

    Carney is without doubt head and shoulders above any European leader

    Indeed he wants the EU and CPTPP to negotiate a trade agreement between their 2 blocks serving the interests of 1. 5 billion people
    I suspect some of those who laughed at the UK joining the CPTPP won't be laughing any more if that happens.
    Surely the UK already has a closer trade agreement with the EU than is likely to be achieved between the CPTPP and the EU? How would such an agreement make any difference to our trade with the EU? (I ask because I'm curious; I'm not mocking.)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,472

    The Lowegasm may be overstated..... 92% do not recognise him, up from 86% last year

    https://x.com/i/status/2023801397138047248

    https://x.com/colder_sarcasm/status/2023717801467478125?s=20
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,788
    boulay said:

    CatMan said:

    Battlebus said:

    In immigration news, FO has found a new wheeze to pi** off the British but not British. They can F.O. if they think they can collect £589 from me. Another U-turn in the making.

    Under the existing rules, a dual national is able to travel to the UK using a passport issued by a second country - but from 25 February that will no longer be the case.

    Instead, they will need to show either a British passport, or a document called a certificate of entitlement - and without one of them, they could face being denied the right to travel back to the UK.


    Emirates Airlines in Dubai tried something similar about a year ago and got educated.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2d9yk2kpjo

    Will this even apply to Irish passports?
    Nope. Irish passports are like upgraded British ones.
    The Irish passport really is the king of passports. Watching the Brits sweat in various European passport queues as they sail through serenely must be some sweet Irish karma for those centuries of oppression.
    If you are Irish and still holding petty grudges about things that happened before your parents were born when you come from a country that’s generally happy and successful then you need to give your head a wobble. Do they feel guilty about taking tax from other countries’ exchequers by allowing multi-nationals to base themselves there under beneficial tax arrangements? Or letting other countries pick up their slack to ensure Europe is safe? Do they snark at scandi countries for Viking enslavement? I think they should look forward and enjoy the country they have become rather than a moment of tumescence at a British family spending longer in passport queues.
    Wow, that touched a nerve! I'm sure most Irish won't allow themselves anything more than a wry smile. But Brexit is certainly a nice vindication of Irish independence, a neat century after the Easter Rising.
  • I respect John Curtice as well and he may be right for those strong reform areas

    However, the story of the night will be Scotland and Wales and labour's performance with Starmer in the cross hairs

    I know there are several anti Kemi posters on here, but if the conservative party think the way forward is another change of leader to Cleverly then they have not learnt their lesson

    This is a marathon, not a sprint and despite the attacks on Kemi, some verging on the very unpleasant, I expect her to remain in office

    I was going to vote Plaid in May, but both my wife and I will vote conservative

    I didn’t think you’d like this thread header.

    If Kemi is so wonderful then, we have a fine Conservative Party policy created and honed by Conservative government hand in hand with Conservative councils to scrap councils and five thousand councillors, streamlining to save money. In order to run down councils in a sound money saving, resource diverting to the reorg, way, the conservatives in government postponed some local elections, Conservative governments that Kemi was a part of.

    So now in opposition, why the hell is she vehemently against exactly the same thing?

    That 100% brass neck opportunistic nature of her’s is 100% hideous, is it not?
    Ok - you don't like her
    I think the policies are rubbish. But the lying is just insane. Just can’t get away with such lying. Everything in government is minuted.

    There is no way, under any form of reason or possibility, Labour negotiated and signed off the Chagos agreement with Mauritius in just 8 weeks. We know the Conservative Party had 11 rounds of negotiation plus a PM to PM summit creating the current Chagos deal - Conservative government told the house of commons and committee this, we know all the most contentious items had been agreed before Labour came to power - so why is Kemi both the biggest critic of the Chagos deal, denies the Conservatives had anything to do with it, and claims it’s wholly Labours Chagos deal?

    It’s not only it’s a dammed lie, it’s the fact Kemi can’t actually lie about this. Labour only have to publish the minutes of the 11 rounds of Conservative negotiation and the plan A document they inherited, and the Kemi leadership and her front bench dies instantly, on the spot.
    Not sure where to start on this

    The previous goverment were required to enter discussions but did not agree terms

    It is 17 months since Starmer and Helmer picked up the stalled deal and simply rolled over

    Let labour publish the minutes if they dare
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,102
    In terms of this May's elections, extending the elections into traditionally Conservative areas has the benefit to the Tories of increasing the actual number of votes cast for the party.

    This might also help with the NEV share which now seems to be the barometer of Badenoch's survival. Will the Conservatives be ahead of Labour, albeit both well behind Reform?
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