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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,005
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Consumer boycotts are the best reply to Trump. As we've said before some aren't easy with the big tech companies being practical monopolies. What has been the impact with Canada over the last twelve months? I'd have thought avoiding holidays (vacations?) in the US would be the easiest win. The sort of thing people spend thousands on.

    Why would Trump even notice? He routinely lies about the economy - not just bar chart stuff, outright “the sky is green” stuff.
    Is that not why blunt measures are necessary, in addition to all the "cope with, and circumvent, the deranged criminal who escaped from Rampton and is now sitting in our kitchen with a gun he found" stuff?

    Trump, and his manipulators, declare that only hard power matters.

    So that is what in the end it may have to be if they continue down their current trajectory.

    But that is not something we know yet, and we still need to be able to go down a range of routes.
    If you want to influence Trump, mad performative demonstrations are the way to go.

    Testing the largest nuclear weapon in history, on the Moon, for example. Time it so it lights up the dark moon over Washington. Stupid, ridiculous and performative. #EuropeStonk
    I think it needs both.

    Performative does not have to be mad; it can also be useful. His method is to push, and if nothing happens push a bit more, until he is made to stop.

    And pressure does flow back to Trump and/or his advisers. He is still Mr TACO, and time is not on his side either biologically or strategically - some of his levers are being rendered gradually irrelevant.
    You need the Fuck! You! transgression. That’s what the MAGA types like. See the Russia! Stonk! “Russians love massive casualties in war” narrative that some try and sell.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,742
    MattW said:

    As I say frequently to an uncomfortable silence, America don't owe it to Britain to elect someone we like. If we'd wanted to demonstrate some independence from the USA in this sort of situation, the time to look after that was over the last 7 decades when we gave ever more power to the US, allowed the US to gobble up key British companies, made our armed services and intelligence systems indivisible from theirs, and adopted an unecessarily servile approach compared to countries of similar size.

    Truss gave an anecdote in her show of the Foreign Office changing her speech without asking her. When she demanded to know why, they told her it was because they'd checked it with the State Department. Why would the US State Department get a veto over the words of the British Foreign Secretary. That is toxic and totally against democracy.

    Sadly, we're so demoralised (certainly PBers seem to be) that instead of being determined to do better, and to gradually reclaim our sovereignty, we think the best thing to do in this situation is to jump straight into bed with the EU, thus giving up even MORE independence to someone ELSE. As if Europe would never choose a leader we don't like. I mean get a grip PB for the love of God.

    I think America owes it to America to choose a leader compatible with USA interests, of which one is "someone our allies - including the UK - like". Not to do so is to destroy the US interest, which is what is currently in process.

    Now, they have already gone a huge distance in destroying the US interest, starting with burning down much of their international influence, and much of a system set up largely by them to promote and institutionalise US hegemony. That is now gone - what comes next? I think an underlying problem, in addition to Trump listening to voices in his head, is MAGA types like Vance and Miller, not understanding the USA's position.

    I don't see any "jumping back into bed with EU"; I see Starmer looking, quite slowly, for an effective way of running Brexit and working with the EU - a promise on which the former Government(s) welched. I think most PBers agree that the Starmer Govt is too cautious, and in his desire to avoid the downside risks lsoign the upside too. They current Government were left with a pig in a poke, and whatever happens next, they start from there.

    Do you have an approx link to the Liz Truss anecdote? The episode is good enough. There's a possible parallel with an anecdote told by Rory Tewart about his attempts to stop a particular programme in Afghanistan that he knew would be hijacked by Armed Groups, and his Civil Servants telling him that he did not have authority to stop programmes run by the department in which he was Minister. They both sound like a Sir Humprey problem.
    It comes up in an interview (that you will detest) with a very glamorous American lady at the start of this episode:

    https://youtu.be/2Uvbcp-YXs8?si=gBf3YmGrXGErWSdP

    It's mentioned in passing and there's not really any response from the interviewee, primarily I think because she imagines Truss is speaking about the British 'State department'. Which of course she isn't.

    William Hague has also hinted at it, saying something like 'when you get into Government you soon learn how close we are to America'. To his discredit, unlike Rory and Truss, he wasn't complaining about it - if anything seemed mildly pleased at taking orders from Dep'ty Dog and the insider status it conferred upon him.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,686
    Fuck these people

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is now making an explicit link between the US desire to annex Greenland and the continuation of US support for Ukraine.

    "What would happen in Ukraine if the US pulled its support out? The whole thing would collapse," Bessent told Meet The Press.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,742
    Dura_Ace said:


    MG Rover – £67million
    Fucking LOL. Seen them coming.
    They wanted the BMW engine I think.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,748

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Consumer boycotts are the best reply to Trump. As we've said before some aren't easy with the big tech companies being practical monopolies. What has been the impact with Canada over the last twelve months? I'd have thought avoiding holidays (vacations?) in the US would be the easiest win. The sort of thing people spend thousands on.

    Why would Trump even notice? He routinely lies about the economy - not just bar chart stuff, outright “the sky is green” stuff.
    Is that not why blunt measures are necessary, in addition to all the "cope with, and circumvent, the deranged criminal who escaped from Rampton and is now sitting in our kitchen with a gun he found" stuff?

    Trump, and his manipulators, declare that only hard power matters.

    So that is what in the end it may have to be if they continue down their current trajectory.

    But that is not something we know yet, and we still need to be able to go down a range of routes.
    If you want to influence Trump, mad performative demonstrations are the way to go.

    Testing the largest nuclear weapon in history, on the Moon, for example. Time it so it lights up the dark moon over Washington. Stupid, ridiculous and performative. #EuropeStonk
    I think it needs both.

    Performative does not have to be mad; it can also be useful. His method is to push, and if nothing happens push a bit more, until he is made to stop.

    And pressure does flow back to Trump and/or his advisers. He is still Mr TACO, and time is not on his side either biologically or strategically - some of his levers are being rendered gradually irrelevant.
    You need the Fuck! You! transgression. That’s what the MAGA types like. See the Russia! Stonk! “Russians love massive casualties in war” narrative that some try and sell.
    I'd suggest looking more for the "Look! This is how you are fucking yourself !" things.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,748

    MattW said:

    As I say frequently to an uncomfortable silence, America don't owe it to Britain to elect someone we like. If we'd wanted to demonstrate some independence from the USA in this sort of situation, the time to look after that was over the last 7 decades when we gave ever more power to the US, allowed the US to gobble up key British companies, made our armed services and intelligence systems indivisible from theirs, and adopted an unecessarily servile approach compared to countries of similar size.

    Truss gave an anecdote in her show of the Foreign Office changing her speech without asking her. When she demanded to know why, they told her it was because they'd checked it with the State Department. Why would the US State Department get a veto over the words of the British Foreign Secretary. That is toxic and totally against democracy.

    Sadly, we're so demoralised (certainly PBers seem to be) that instead of being determined to do better, and to gradually reclaim our sovereignty, we think the best thing to do in this situation is to jump straight into bed with the EU, thus giving up even MORE independence to someone ELSE. As if Europe would never choose a leader we don't like. I mean get a grip PB for the love of God.

    I think America owes it to America to choose a leader compatible with USA interests, of which one is "someone our allies - including the UK - like". Not to do so is to destroy the US interest, which is what is currently in process.

    Now, they have already gone a huge distance in destroying the US interest, starting with burning down much of their international influence, and much of a system set up largely by them to promote and institutionalise US hegemony. That is now gone - what comes next? I think an underlying problem, in addition to Trump listening to voices in his head, is MAGA types like Vance and Miller, not understanding the USA's position.

    I don't see any "jumping back into bed with EU"; I see Starmer looking, quite slowly, for an effective way of running Brexit and working with the EU - a promise on which the former Government(s) welched. I think most PBers agree that the Starmer Govt is too cautious, and in his desire to avoid the downside risks lsoign the upside too. They current Government were left with a pig in a poke, and whatever happens next, they start from there.

    Do you have an approx link to the Liz Truss anecdote? The episode is good enough. There's a possible parallel with an anecdote told by Rory Tewart about his attempts to stop a particular programme in Afghanistan that he knew would be hijacked by Armed Groups, and his Civil Servants telling him that he did not have authority to stop programmes run by the department in which he was Minister. They both sound like a Sir Humprey problem.
    It comes up in an interview (that you will detest) with a very glamorous American lady at the start of this episode:

    https://youtu.be/2Uvbcp-YXs8?si=gBf3YmGrXGErWSdP

    It's mentioned in passing and there's not really any response from the interviewee, primarily I think because she imagines Truss is speaking about the British 'State department'. Which of course she isn't.

    William Hague has also hinted at it, saying something like 'when you get into Government you soon learn how close we are to America'. To his discredit, unlike Rory and Truss, he wasn't complaining about it - if anything seemed mildly pleased at taking orders from Dep'ty Dog and the insider status it conferred upon him.
    Thanks for the reply.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,954

    Considering the situation with Greenland, is Mike Johnson (yes, I know :lol:) value in terms of being the next President?
    Presuming that Trump invading would be a step to far for the GOP and Trump gets impeached and convicted, are the EU and other US allies going to want to deal with Vance as President? For any kind of reset back to some variation of the status quo, surely the message from Macron, Merz etc. would be that Vance needs to be impeached and gone as well.
    Which means Johnson becomes President.

    Mike Johnson may well not be Speaker much longer. His grip on the House of Representatives is tentative. The Californian Representative who died recently will not be replaced until a Special ELection in August (the last date possible). The margin is now fingers on one hand. He is likely to incur the wrath of Republican Representatives if Trump invades Greenland. Even if he buys it, the umpty billions paid will face questions as to whether it could have been better spent on keeping a hospital open in East Bumfuck, Nowhere. Venting by removing the Speaker is an obvious move.
    Plus, if it is thought that the US Speaker did have a sniff at becoming President, how many other ambitious Representatives in an already fractious caucus might like the look of the Speakership at this point.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,005
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Consumer boycotts are the best reply to Trump. As we've said before some aren't easy with the big tech companies being practical monopolies. What has been the impact with Canada over the last twelve months? I'd have thought avoiding holidays (vacations?) in the US would be the easiest win. The sort of thing people spend thousands on.

    Why would Trump even notice? He routinely lies about the economy - not just bar chart stuff, outright “the sky is green” stuff.
    Is that not why blunt measures are necessary, in addition to all the "cope with, and circumvent, the deranged criminal who escaped from Rampton and is now sitting in our kitchen with a gun he found" stuff?

    Trump, and his manipulators, declare that only hard power matters.

    So that is what in the end it may have to be if they continue down their current trajectory.

    But that is not something we know yet, and we still need to be able to go down a range of routes.
    If you want to influence Trump, mad performative demonstrations are the way to go.

    Testing the largest nuclear weapon in history, on the Moon, for example. Time it so it lights up the dark moon over Washington. Stupid, ridiculous and performative. #EuropeStonk
    I think it needs both.

    Performative does not have to be mad; it can also be useful. His method is to push, and if nothing happens push a bit more, until he is made to stop.

    And pressure does flow back to Trump and/or his advisers. He is still Mr TACO, and time is not on his side either biologically or strategically - some of his levers are being rendered gradually irrelevant.
    You need the Fuck! You! transgression. That’s what the MAGA types like. See the Russia! Stonk! “Russians love massive casualties in war” narrative that some try and sell.
    I'd suggest looking more for the "Look! This is how you are fucking yourself !" things.
    Which is reasoning with people who are all about the “feels”.

    It doesn’t impinge.

    Try - “Given us 10 billion euro within an hour, or the nuke test on the moon will be on the Apollo 11 site.”
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,748

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Consumer boycotts are the best reply to Trump. As we've said before some aren't easy with the big tech companies being practical monopolies. What has been the impact with Canada over the last twelve months? I'd have thought avoiding holidays (vacations?) in the US would be the easiest win. The sort of thing people spend thousands on.

    Why would Trump even notice? He routinely lies about the economy - not just bar chart stuff, outright “the sky is green” stuff.
    Is that not why blunt measures are necessary, in addition to all the "cope with, and circumvent, the deranged criminal who escaped from Rampton and is now sitting in our kitchen with a gun he found" stuff?

    Trump, and his manipulators, declare that only hard power matters.

    So that is what in the end it may have to be if they continue down their current trajectory.

    But that is not something we know yet, and we still need to be able to go down a range of routes.
    If you want to influence Trump, mad performative demonstrations are the way to go.

    Testing the largest nuclear weapon in history, on the Moon, for example. Time it so it lights up the dark moon over Washington. Stupid, ridiculous and performative. #EuropeStonk
    I think it needs both.

    Performative does not have to be mad; it can also be useful. His method is to push, and if nothing happens push a bit more, until he is made to stop.

    And pressure does flow back to Trump and/or his advisers. He is still Mr TACO, and time is not on his side either biologically or strategically - some of his levers are being rendered gradually irrelevant.
    You need the Fuck! You! transgression. That’s what the MAGA types like. See the Russia! Stonk! “Russians love massive casualties in war” narrative that some try and sell.
    I'd suggest looking more for the "Look! This is how you are fucking yourself !" things.
    Which is reasoning with people who are all about the “feels”.

    It doesn’t impinge.

    Try - “Given us 10 billion euro within an hour, or the nuke test on the moon will be on the Apollo 11 site.”
    It impinges when he is destroying his own power base, and the Red states and Red side of Congress are turning.

    Time will tell.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,147
    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck these people

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is now making an explicit link between the US desire to annex Greenland and the continuation of US support for Ukraine.

    "What would happen in Ukraine if the US pulled its support out? The whole thing would collapse," Bessent told Meet The Press.

    "The whole thing" being the pretence that Trump's desire to annex Greenland has the slightest thing to do with security?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,156
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This guy can fuck all the way off, then fuck off some more

    @atrupar.com‬

    Bessent on Greenland: "Peace through strength. Make it part of the US and there will not be a conflict because the US right now, we're the hottest country in the world, we're the strongest country in the world. Europeans project weakness. The US projects strength."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3mcpddc2yu22p

    Europe does project weakness.

    When Europe cuts welfare to fund strategic security it will start to project strength.
    This is a weird meme because, as a percentage of GDP and including social security contributions, the United States is the biggest spender on welfare in the world - 7ppts higher than the UK. Even if you restrict it to pure, direct government expenditure (which isn't a fair comparison because of the complexities of public/private systems across countries), the US isn't far behind the UK (20% v 23%).
    Any time someone suggests reducing welfare you can expect someone else to say "country X is spending more on welfare therefore it shouldn't be reduced in this country".

    Might I point out that the USA's deficit and debt is even worse than that of the UK.
    I didn't say that. I'm just calling out the MAGA talking point which is, as ever, based on a falsehood. The Americans are welfare junkies like the rest of us - and they don't get anywhere near the value that the Nordics do (the happiest countries in the world).

    The Poles spend a larger proportion on defence than we do - and are applauded for it - but their welfare spending is even higher. The same goes for Finland, the largest standing reserve and artillery in Europe. The Danes spend more than we do on defence as well. We shouldn't be bullied into copying an American system of governance which is demonstrably shite at all levels and in all aspects, particularly when these excellent alternatives exist.
    Corruption is expensive, which is why the American system is so broken.

    Americans spend more in public taxation on healthcare than we do in the UK. Not even counting private expenditure.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,505
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    These people are idiots

    WELKER: What is the national emergency that justifies this new slate of tariffs?

    WELKER: The national emergency is avoiding a national emergency

    Whoops Apocalypse is simply true, now.
    Sir Mortimer Chris, a loopy person.

    We can but fantasise about Trump one day being asked 'how's life?' and replying, 'Still serving it.'
    I swear, if Starmer announced a policy of reducing unemployment by getting people to jump off the cliffs of Dover, many wouldn’t even blink.
    I know I am but an ill educated serf but I really don't understand that post in the context of the mini thread, or even at all, come to think of it.
    https://youtu.be/Xg6DNuPm3lQ?si=OQ4jHGjd1tiq-vjX&t=1943

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    These people are idiots

    WELKER: What is the national emergency that justifies this new slate of tariffs?

    WELKER: The national emergency is avoiding a national emergency

    Whoops Apocalypse is simply true, now.
    Sir Mortimer Chris, a loopy person.

    We can but fantasise about Trump one day being asked 'how's life?' and replying, 'Still serving it.'
    I swear, if Starmer announced a policy of reducing unemployment by getting people to jump off the cliffs of Dover, many wouldn’t even blink.
    I know I am but an ill educated serf but I really don't understand that post in the context of the mini thread, or even at all, come to think of it.
    Normalising insanity in politics - https://youtu.be/NBHHFnUqo5o?si=Z9fcIvKUsqrf-PEg
    I haven't seen Whoops Apocalypse for almost 40 years! How am I supposed to remember that?

    But Peter Cook, what a hero.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,306

    Dura_Ace said:


    MG Rover – £67million
    Fucking LOL. Seen them coming.
    They wanted the BMW engine I think.
    They wanted the brand - MG was the brand used by SAIC to introduce Chinese cars to the european market - in China MG cars are sold under the brand Roewe
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,351
    Funniest headline of the day:

    Ozempic could save American airlines hundreds of millions of dollars.

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/2012916988973334554

    The story is that if Americans all lost 10% of their weight, airlines would use 1.5% less fuel as a result. They don’t (yes) charge humans by their own weight and the average American is 180lb. 1.5% of the fuel bill across the major American airlines is $580m.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,686
    edited 4:46PM
    @acoyne

    Always remember: as insane as Trump is behaving right now -- and he has never behaved more insanely -- it is only going to get worse. Don't just think how to respond to what he is doing now. Think about how to respond to what he will do next.


    EDIT: This is why we need to punch him in the mouth (metaphorically) right now. Object lesson.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,005

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This guy can fuck all the way off, then fuck off some more

    @atrupar.com‬

    Bessent on Greenland: "Peace through strength. Make it part of the US and there will not be a conflict because the US right now, we're the hottest country in the world, we're the strongest country in the world. Europeans project weakness. The US projects strength."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3mcpddc2yu22p

    Europe does project weakness.

    When Europe cuts welfare to fund strategic security it will start to project strength.
    This is a weird meme because, as a percentage of GDP and including social security contributions, the United States is the biggest spender on welfare in the world - 7ppts higher than the UK. Even if you restrict it to pure, direct government expenditure (which isn't a fair comparison because of the complexities of public/private systems across countries), the US isn't far behind the UK (20% v 23%).
    Any time someone suggests reducing welfare you can expect someone else to say "country X is spending more on welfare therefore it shouldn't be reduced in this country".

    Might I point out that the USA's deficit and debt is even worse than that of the UK.
    I didn't say that. I'm just calling out the MAGA talking point which is, as ever, based on a falsehood. The Americans are welfare junkies like the rest of us - and they don't get anywhere near the value that the Nordics do (the happiest countries in the world).

    The Poles spend a larger proportion on defence than we do - and are applauded for it - but their welfare spending is even higher. The same goes for Finland, the largest standing reserve and artillery in Europe. The Danes spend more than we do on defence as well. We shouldn't be bullied into copying an American system of governance which is demonstrably shite at all levels and in all aspects, particularly when these excellent alternatives exist.
    Corruption is expensive, which is why the American system is so broken.

    Americans spend more in public taxation on healthcare than we do in the UK. Not even counting private expenditure.
    The Americans spend more on healthcare than the NHS, per head. Just counting the federal programs. The states and lower government structures pay other fortune in providing healthcare plans to employees.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,505
    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck these people

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is now making an explicit link between the US desire to annex Greenland and the continuation of US support for Ukraine.

    "What would happen in Ukraine if the US pulled its support out? The whole thing would collapse," Bessent told Meet The Press.

    "The whole thing" being the pretence that Trump's desire to annex Greenland has the slightest thing to do with security?
    To smokescreen Epstein and to grift petrochemical and mining conglomerates.

    And we have posters on here this afternoon gaslighting Biden.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,326
    Reform plan to be our next government. Farage said the next GE would be in 2027. Are Reform on the record anywhere as specifically opposing the USA policy of taking over Greenland?

    I can't find it if it exists. They have been conspicuous by their silence since Trump's tariff statement yesterday. Perhaps they are awaiting instructions. But who from?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,279
    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck these people

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is now making an explicit link between the US desire to annex Greenland and the continuation of US support for Ukraine.

    "What would happen in Ukraine if the US pulled its support out? The whole thing would collapse," Bessent told Meet The Press.

    "The whole thing" being the pretence that Trump's desire to annex Greenland has the slightest thing to do with security?
    The underlying conceit is that the US is scared of Russia getting a foothold in Greenland - when it could crush Russia for decades by helping it be driven out of Ukraine.

    What a bunch of See You Next Tuesdays they are in that Administration.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,306
    algarkirk said:

    Reform plan to be our next government. Farage said the next GE would be in 2027. Are Reform on the record anywhere as specifically opposing the USA policy of taking over Greenland?

    I can't find it if it exists. They have been conspicuous by their silence since Trump's tariff statement yesterday. Perhaps they are awaiting instructions. But who from?

    If Farage thinks the next election is in 27 - he doesn't have the first clue how the British constitution works...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,770
    Sandpit said:

    Funniest headline of the day:

    Ozempic could save American airlines hundreds of millions of dollars.

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/2012916988973334554

    The story is that if Americans all lost 10% of their weight, airlines would use 1.5% less fuel as a result. They don’t (yes) charge humans by their own weight and the average American is 180lb. 1.5% of the fuel bill across the major American airlines is $580m.

    I have long thought that airlines should charge by combined weight of passenger and baggage.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,211
    I am deeply concerned that so many Reform voters don't see this for what it is.

    They seem to think Trump can do no wrong, and if anyone opposes him then that's a sign that he himself must be supported.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,505
    algarkirk said:

    Reform plan to be our next government. Farage said the next GE would be in 2027. Are Reform on the record anywhere as specifically opposing the USA policy of taking over Greenland?

    I can't find it if it exists. They have been conspicuous by their silence since Trump's tariff statement yesterday. Perhaps they are awaiting instructions. But who from?

    How do we get a GE next year? Are the Trump administration planning a shit load of Labour held seat by elections?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,748
    edited 4:54PM
    Sandpit said:

    Funniest headline of the day:

    Ozempic could save American airlines hundreds of millions of dollars.

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/2012916988973334554

    The story is that if Americans all lost 10% of their weight, airlines would use 1.5% less fuel as a result. They don’t (yes) charge humans by their own weight and the average American is 180lb. 1.5% of the fuel bill across the major American airlines is $580m.

    I though the principle was that moderation and efficiency were worthless concepts :wink: ?

    Drill, baby, drill. And bugger tomorrow.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,211

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    You should see what the UAE is buying up. Brands. They like brands. Big famous names.

    Abu Dhabi alone has been doing deals at the rate of $5 billion A DAY...
    ADIA investment fund alone has around $1trn under management at the moment.

    There’s also plenty in of cash in Dubai, Riyadh, Doha, all finding a home in the West.

    China is definitely the big future threat, because they’re building up monopolies for commodity as well as technological products. As we all should have realised during the pandemic. Canada are out of their minds to drop tariffs on Chinese cars, they’ll be everywhere by next year, although ironically the biggest seller of them will probably be an American company, Tesla.
    I told JohnO before Christmas that I have been headhunted to go work for one of these Middle Eastern banks/governments/investment firms.

    They ain't messing around.
    Indeed, when I was open to offers I spoke to a few ME companies coming in at well into seven figures tax free to go and work in Riyadh or Kuwait.

    I would never make my wife move to the Middle East and live in a gilded cage so it was a non-starters but the offers were up to 10x what I eventually took here.
    This job would be UK based, like you I have no desire to work in the Middle East.
    I've never had a good experience working in the Middle East.

    Money isn't everything.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,651
    algarkirk said:

    Reform plan to be our next government. Farage said the next GE would be in 2027. Are Reform on the record anywhere as specifically opposing the USA policy of taking over Greenland?

    I can't find it if it exists. They have been conspicuous by their silence since Trump's tariff statement yesterday. Perhaps they are awaiting instructions. But who from?

    Farage is off sick. Reminds me of John Major's toothache.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,742
    A good alternative take on the Jenrick defection from Mark Littlewood and David Starkey.
    https://youtu.be/vvmBf_xZRFM?si=mx_TKucX0pX-t6FF
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,211
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Agent Anderson is on Cousin Marriage at present, which is apparently an issue about Muslims.

    It was made legal in the England in 1540 because Henry VIII wanted to marry the first cousin of a previous wife he had beheaded.

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/2012252464217518095

    His own cousin, surely, unless his previous wife was his sister?
    Under English law at the time, if you were married to somebody you were legally considered that person for marital purposes.

    When Henry VIII married Catherine of Aragon, he had to obtain a papal dispensation because she had been married to his brother.

    He claimed, in the dispensation, that Catherine and Arthur had never consummated their marriage. When he wanted an annulment, he claimed she had misled him on this point.

    Similarly, he annulled his marriage to Anne Boleyn before beheading her on the grounds he'd previously been shagging her sister Mary.

    Yes, he was massively creepy.
    Trump is rather like Henry VIII, I think.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,005
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Funniest headline of the day:

    Ozempic could save American airlines hundreds of millions of dollars.

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/2012916988973334554

    The story is that if Americans all lost 10% of their weight, airlines would use 1.5% less fuel as a result. They don’t (yes) charge humans by their own weight and the average American is 180lb. 1.5% of the fuel bill across the major American airlines is $580m.

    I have long thought that airlines should charge by combined weight of passenger and baggage.
    Various politicians have leaned hard on airlines to *not* do that.

    Sleazy Jet Boi was well up for that, IIRC
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,106

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Agent Anderson is on Cousin Marriage at present, which is apparently an issue about Muslims.

    It was made legal in the England in 1540 because Henry VIII wanted to marry the first cousin of a previous wife he had beheaded.

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/2012252464217518095

    His own cousin, surely, unless his previous wife was his sister?
    Under English law at the time, if you were married to somebody you were legally considered that person for marital purposes.

    When Henry VIII married Catherine of Aragon, he had to obtain a papal dispensation because she had been married to his brother.

    He claimed, in the dispensation, that Catherine and Arthur had never consummated their marriage. When he wanted an annulment, he claimed she had misled him on this point.

    Similarly, he annulled his marriage to Anne Boleyn before beheading her on the grounds he'd previously been shagging her sister Mary.

    Yes, he was massively creepy.
    Trump is rather like Henry VIII, I think.
    I think that's very unfair.

    To Henry VIII.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,279
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Agent Anderson is on Cousin Marriage at present, which is apparently an issue about Muslims.

    It was made legal in the England in 1540 because Henry VIII wanted to marry the first cousin of a previous wife he had beheaded.

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/2012252464217518095

    His own cousin, surely, unless his previous wife was his sister?
    Under English law at the time, if you were married to somebody you were legally considered that person for marital purposes.

    When Henry VIII married Catherine of Aragon, he had to obtain a papal dispensation because she had been married to his brother.

    He claimed, in the dispensation, that Catherine and Arthur had never consummated their marriage. When he wanted an annulment, he claimed she had misled him on this point.

    Similarly, he annulled his marriage to Anne Boleyn before beheading her on the grounds he'd previously been shagging her sister Mary.

    Yes, he was massively creepy.
    Trump is rather like Henry VIII, I think.
    I think that's very unfair.

    To Henry VIII.
    Yes. He probably treated his wives better.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,128
    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    It is really interesting that Reform is so out of line on this. 39% "strongly oppose". If the bulk of Reform's support is from former Tories, then they must have had their minds melted in the journey across.
    I think about half of the Reform vote is from weathy older Shire voters not unlike the Tories, but the other half is from those swapping various MAGA conspiracy theories on Social Media.

    All parties are coalitions, but this doesn't seem a natural fit in the long term. Farage knows this and its one reason that he won't criticize Trump.
    You seriously think about 14.5% of the country are swapping MAGA conspiracy stories online 🙄
    Last night one of my Tweets about Greenland went viral, I'd say about 40% of the replies are MAGA bullshit by Brits.

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/status/2012566644493627792

    I get replies like these as well.

    Go live in Pakistan then bro

    https://x.com/Frank6awa/status/2012661929332920536

    Get fucked. I'd rather not support the Fouth Reich, you fucking Nazi

    https://x.com/HashMan10600431/status/2012629647645671488

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.
    I'd forgotten you still had a Twitter account. Can't be fun, given that it is chock full of nutters. Have you thought of migrating to Bluesky and going on Matt Wardman's Political Betting starter pack?

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/
    https://bsky.app/starter-pack/mattwardman.bsky.social/3lfk4fvp5yv26
    https://bsky.app/profile/mattwardman.bsky.social
    lol, bless
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,339
    Those of you who are talking about UK military action may wish to view the video below. The TL:DR is that Labour is dragging its feet about coming up with the actual money for the promised defence improvements. This is obviously criminally irresponsible given the current pressures and our mounting responsibilities.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEzpBpZ4LqA (10 mins)

    (I'll post this a couple of times over the next few days so people get the point)
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,410
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Funniest headline of the day:

    Ozempic could save American airlines hundreds of millions of dollars.

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/2012916988973334554

    The story is that if Americans all lost 10% of their weight, airlines would use 1.5% less fuel as a result. They don’t (yes) charge humans by their own weight and the average American is 180lb. 1.5% of the fuel bill across the major American airlines is $580m.

    I have long thought that airlines should charge by combined weight of passenger and baggage.
    If you added an onboard decibel measuring device so that noisy children were charged per slightest shriek then it'd be perfect. Oh and an extra 10% charged if you tip your seat back on short haul, with an equivalent discount to the seat-tipper victim.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,279

    I am deeply concerned that so many Reform voters don't see this for what it is.

    They seem to think Trump can do no wrong, and if anyone opposes him then that's a sign that he himself must be supported.

    The appeal of isolationism has always united the top and bottom in society. Wars are expensive. People at the top fear interruption to their businesses, people at the bottom fear more taxes and less spending on them. Plus, wars are scary and personally, I don't want to find out what I'm made of.

    Start from there, and we're all prone to all sorts of contortions to justify the conclusion we want.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,279
    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Funniest headline of the day:

    Ozempic could save American airlines hundreds of millions of dollars.

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/2012916988973334554

    The story is that if Americans all lost 10% of their weight, airlines would use 1.5% less fuel as a result. They don’t (yes) charge humans by their own weight and the average American is 180lb. 1.5% of the fuel bill across the major American airlines is $580m.

    I have long thought that airlines should charge by combined weight of passenger and baggage.
    If you added an onboard decibel measuring device so that noisy children were charged per slightest shriek then it'd be perfect. Oh and an extra 10% charged if you tip your seat back on short haul, with an equivalent discount to the seat-tipper victim.
    Just incorporate The Far Side's "Wingbaby"...

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/409602143609894/posts/1450624572840974/
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 547

    I am deeply concerned that so many Reform voters don't see this for what it is.

    They seem to think Trump can do no wrong, and if anyone opposes him then that's a sign that he himself must be supported.

    The appeal of isolationism has always united the top and bottom in society. Wars are expensive. People at the top fear interruption to their businesses, people at the bottom fear more taxes and less spending on them. Plus, wars are scary and personally, I don't want to find out what I'm made of.

    Start from there, and we're all prone to all sorts of contortions to justify the conclusion we want.
    It's also easier - at least, in theory. It's true for people as much as it is for rogue states. No need to adjust your position to accommodate anyone else's opinions, or get involved in long, drawn out negotions - just "my way or the highway". Which is a sustainable position to hold - right up to the moment when you need help, or for someone else to agree with you.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,572
    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck these people

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is now making an explicit link between the US desire to annex Greenland and the continuation of US support for Ukraine.

    "What would happen in Ukraine if the US pulled its support out? The whole thing would collapse," Bessent told Meet The Press.

    The damage these people are doing will take decades to heal. How can anyone trust the US again when it behaves like this to allies?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,339
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    It is really interesting that Reform is so out of line on this. 39% "strongly oppose". If the bulk of Reform's support is from former Tories, then they must have had their minds melted in the journey across.
    I think about half of the Reform vote is from weathy older Shire voters not unlike the Tories, but the other half is from those swapping various MAGA conspiracy theories on Social Media.

    All parties are coalitions, but this doesn't seem a natural fit in the long term. Farage knows this and its one reason that he won't criticize Trump.
    You seriously think about 14.5% of the country are swapping MAGA conspiracy stories online 🙄
    Last night one of my Tweets about Greenland went viral, I'd say about 40% of the replies are MAGA bullshit by Brits.

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/status/2012566644493627792

    I get replies like these as well.

    Go live in Pakistan then bro

    https://x.com/Frank6awa/status/2012661929332920536

    Get fucked. I'd rather not support the Fouth Reich, you fucking Nazi

    https://x.com/HashMan10600431/status/2012629647645671488

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.
    I'd forgotten you still had a Twitter account. Can't be fun, given that it is chock full of nutters. Have you thought of migrating to Bluesky and going on Matt Wardman's Political Betting starter pack?

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/
    https://bsky.app/starter-pack/mattwardman.bsky.social/3lfk4fvp5yv26
    https://bsky.app/profile/mattwardman.bsky.social
    lol, bless
    "chock full of nutters".
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,218
    This new series of Borgen totally lacks credibility.

    The US threatening to invade Greenland - what have the writers been smoking?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,919

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Agent Anderson is on Cousin Marriage at present, which is apparently an issue about Muslims.

    It was made legal in the England in 1540 because Henry VIII wanted to marry the first cousin of a previous wife he had beheaded.

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/2012252464217518095

    His own cousin, surely, unless his previous wife was his sister?
    Under English law at the time, if you were married to somebody you were legally considered that person for marital purposes.

    When Henry VIII married Catherine of Aragon, he had to obtain a papal dispensation because she had been married to his brother.

    He claimed, in the dispensation, that Catherine and Arthur had never consummated their marriage. When he wanted an annulment, he claimed she had misled him on this point.

    Similarly, he annulled his marriage to Anne Boleyn before beheading her on the grounds he'd previously been shagging her sister Mary.

    Yes, he was massively creepy.
    Trump is rather like Henry VIII, I think.
    Certainly in the sense that if either saw something they want then they must have it, and both would take disagreement very personally.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,410

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Funniest headline of the day:

    Ozempic could save American airlines hundreds of millions of dollars.

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/2012916988973334554

    The story is that if Americans all lost 10% of their weight, airlines would use 1.5% less fuel as a result. They don’t (yes) charge humans by their own weight and the average American is 180lb. 1.5% of the fuel bill across the major American airlines is $580m.

    I have long thought that airlines should charge by combined weight of passenger and baggage.
    If you added an onboard decibel measuring device so that noisy children were charged per slightest shriek then it'd be perfect. Oh and an extra 10% charged if you tip your seat back on short haul, with an equivalent discount to the seat-tipper victim.
    Just incorporate The Far Side's "Wingbaby"...

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/409602143609894/posts/1450624572840974/
    Seems too good for them!

    Another wheeze the airlines could do is offer seat upgrades in flight. There have been many times when in retrospect I'd have happily paid twice the business upgrade cost along the way just to get more legroom, less noise, or just be able to get off the hellish thing 2 minutes sooner!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,686

    This new series of Borgen totally lacks credibility.

    The US threatening to invade Greenland - what have the writers been smoking?

    I believe it's a remake

    @juliamacfarlane

    Huge week for people who enjoyed Borgen: Power and Glory
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,128
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    It is really interesting that Reform is so out of line on this. 39% "strongly oppose". If the bulk of Reform's support is from former Tories, then they must have had their minds melted in the journey across.
    I think about half of the Reform vote is from weathy older Shire voters not unlike the Tories, but the other half is from those swapping various MAGA conspiracy theories on Social Media.

    All parties are coalitions, but this doesn't seem a natural fit in the long term. Farage knows this and its one reason that he won't criticize Trump.
    You seriously think about 14.5% of the country are swapping MAGA conspiracy stories online 🙄
    Last night one of my Tweets about Greenland went viral, I'd say about 40% of the replies are MAGA bullshit by Brits.

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/status/2012566644493627792

    I get replies like these as well.

    Go live in Pakistan then bro

    https://x.com/Frank6awa/status/2012661929332920536

    Get fucked. I'd rather not support the Fouth Reich, you fucking Nazi

    https://x.com/HashMan10600431/status/2012629647645671488

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.
    I'd forgotten you still had a Twitter account. Can't be fun, given that it is chock full of nutters. Have you thought of migrating to Bluesky and going on Matt Wardman's Political Betting starter pack?

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/
    https://bsky.app/starter-pack/mattwardman.bsky.social/3lfk4fvp5yv26
    https://bsky.app/profile/mattwardman.bsky.social
    lol, bless
    "chock full of nutters".
    Whereas Bluesky is a silent desert with the odd shrieking group of pious lefty nutters, acidly bickering with each other and wondering why no one wants to join them

    Think I prefer the unruly crowds and fun
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,919
    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck these people

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is now making an explicit link between the US desire to annex Greenland and the continuation of US support for Ukraine.

    "What would happen in Ukraine if the US pulled its support out? The whole thing would collapse," Bessent told Meet The Press.

    Europe has had four years to get its act together. There has been some progress, but given the risk that we would face this moment ultimately the opportunity we had to get ready has been wasted.

    Starmer is still dragging his heels on increasing defence spending, but the previous Tory PMs since the full-scale invasion are also culpable.

    It's only because Europe has failed to prepare that the US is able to make these threats.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,089
    Nigelb said:



    Next up, the Falklands, as soon as they start pumping a significant amount of oil.

    That Bernard Manning looking fuckface doesn't seem interested in the FI but Trump would be 100% sympathetic to a pressed claim on them by Argentina.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,128

    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck these people

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is now making an explicit link between the US desire to annex Greenland and the continuation of US support for Ukraine.

    "What would happen in Ukraine if the US pulled its support out? The whole thing would collapse," Bessent told Meet The Press.

    The damage these people are doing will take decades to heal. How can anyone trust the US again when it behaves like this to allies?
    What if they don’t care?


    That’s one disturbing rationale. What if they’ve decided that NATO can go fuck itself (ditto Ukraine), and the Europeans are a bunch of expensive effete losers determined to immigrate their nations to death - ergo they are doomed and useless allies now and forever

    What if they’ve therefore decided that American isolationism is the answer - building an impregnable fortress in the wider Americas, which contains all the resources it needs and has all means to defend itself - especially if they can seize the vast mineral wealth and strategic location of Greenland

    In that light the seizure of Greenland makes “sense”. They just don’t care. America must have what it needs for security and fuck Denmark (and Greenland)

    If this is their thinking - rather than just a trumpian flight of lunacy - then it has an internal logic. It is also crazily risky and almost certainly a massive error - every nation, no matter how strong, must have allies and alliances

    Just pointing out that it might not be pure insanity. Eg the death of NATO is possibly seen as a positive by product
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,351
    Official US denial of the French story regarding Ukranian intelligence, they say it’s Russian propaganda.

    https://x.com/cforcd/status/2012899212304748816

  • isamisam Posts: 43,383
    edited 5:31PM

    I am deeply concerned that so many Reform voters don't see this for what it is.

    They seem to think Trump can do no wrong, and if anyone opposes him then that's a sign that he himself must be supported.

    I did vote Reform in 2024, but have never been all in on Trump, and probably won’t vote Reform next time anyway. I liked that he tore up the rule book and gave the centrists/lefty can’t do’s a kick up the arse, but his response to the film directors death recently woke me up to what a crass person he is. Now it seems like he is getting crazier every day.

    Not that it would cross his mind, but he has put Farage in a bit of a muddle now. Laying Reform most seats at 2 seems even better than before, I think it’s been a bad week for them

    EDIT It’s 2.1 now, predictable drift
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,355
    Anti-Ayatollah protestors in Whitehall:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuQolI1BzsM
  • isamisam Posts: 43,383
    Advance UK are shorter than the Lib Dems in the most seats market on Betfair! Only for pennies, but Jesus Christ that’s mental
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,089
    edited 5:37PM
    Leon said:



    Just pointing out that it might not be pure insanity. Eg the death of NATO is possibly seen as a positive by product

    I may be overthinking it, but getting the US out of NATO, an objective with which I have some sympathy, is what's behind all this Greenland bollocks. It's upending 70 years of US strategic doctrine so Miller, JDV and the rest of the danse macabre need an imperative. Handily annexing Greenland resonates with DJT's pleonexia and sadism.

    After all, we need them a hell of a lot more than they need us.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,279
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck these people

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is now making an explicit link between the US desire to annex Greenland and the continuation of US support for Ukraine.

    "What would happen in Ukraine if the US pulled its support out? The whole thing would collapse," Bessent told Meet The Press.

    The damage these people are doing will take decades to heal. How can anyone trust the US again when it behaves like this to allies?
    What if they don’t care?


    That’s one disturbing rationale. What if they’ve decided that NATO can go fuck itself (ditto Ukraine), and the Europeans are a bunch of expensive effete losers determined to immigrate their nations to death - ergo they are doomed and useless allies now and forever

    What if they’ve therefore decided that American isolationism is the answer - building an impregnable fortress in the wider Americas, which contains all the resources it needs and has all means to defend itself - especially if they can seize the vast mineral wealth and strategic location of Greenland

    In that light the seizure of Greenland makes “sense”. They just don’t care. America must have what it needs for security and fuck Denmark (and Greenland)

    If this is their thinking - rather than just a trumpian flight of lunacy - then it has an internal logic. It is also crazily risky and almost certainly a massive error - every nation, no matter how strong, must have allies and alliances

    Just pointing out that it might not be pure insanity. Eg the death of NATO is possibly seen as a positive by product
    America never guarded the free world out of a defence of democracy. It did it to protect trade with its industry.

    It risks trashing its trading empire, as everyone else now works together to find alternatives.

    Europe, Africa and Asia can happily trade amongst themselves. What do we need from the US that can't be found elsewhere?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,218
    isam said:

    Advance UK are shorter than the Lib Dems in the most seats market on Betfair! Only for pennies, but Jesus Christ that’s mental

    A political party named after a cheap rail ticket has no chance of electoral success.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,211
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck these people

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is now making an explicit link between the US desire to annex Greenland and the continuation of US support for Ukraine.

    "What would happen in Ukraine if the US pulled its support out? The whole thing would collapse," Bessent told Meet The Press.

    The damage these people are doing will take decades to heal. How can anyone trust the US again when it behaves like this to allies?
    What if they don’t care?


    That’s one disturbing rationale. What if they’ve decided that NATO can go fuck itself (ditto Ukraine), and the Europeans are a bunch of expensive effete losers determined to immigrate their nations to death - ergo they are doomed and useless allies now and forever

    What if they’ve therefore decided that American isolationism is the answer - building an impregnable fortress in the wider Americas, which contains all the resources it needs and has all means to defend itself - especially if they can seize the vast mineral wealth and strategic location of Greenland

    In that light the seizure of Greenland makes “sense”. They just don’t care. America must have what it needs for security and fuck Denmark (and Greenland)

    If this is their thinking - rather than just a trumpian flight of lunacy - then it has an internal logic. It is also crazily risky and almost certainly a massive error - every nation, no matter how strong, must have allies and alliances

    Just pointing out that it might not be pure insanity. Eg the death of NATO is possibly seen as a positive by product
    Then, that would be a failure of imagination.

    America has less than 5% of humanity's population, and isn't anything like as invulnerable or omnipotent as it thinks it is.

    They soon will care when they realise such actions leave Americans friendless, their markets smaller, access to products reduced, and - being no longer able or trusted to shape world events - a recipient of the chaos that causes, which it will.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,770
    edited 5:44PM
    Sandpit said:

    Official US denial of the French story regarding Ukranian intelligence, they say it’s Russian propaganda.

    https://x.com/cforcd/status/2012899212304748816

    The aphorism of Mandy Rice-Davies applies, surely?

    Though to be fair it could just have been Hegseth drunk on Signal again.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,355

    isam said:

    Advance UK are shorter than the Lib Dems in the most seats market on Betfair! Only for pennies, but Jesus Christ that’s mental

    A political party named after a cheap rail ticket has no chance of electoral success.
    Diminishing Returns?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,128

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck these people

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is now making an explicit link between the US desire to annex Greenland and the continuation of US support for Ukraine.

    "What would happen in Ukraine if the US pulled its support out? The whole thing would collapse," Bessent told Meet The Press.

    The damage these people are doing will take decades to heal. How can anyone trust the US again when it behaves like this to allies?
    What if they don’t care?


    That’s one disturbing rationale. What if they’ve decided that NATO can go fuck itself (ditto Ukraine), and the Europeans are a bunch of expensive effete losers determined to immigrate their nations to death - ergo they are doomed and useless allies now and forever

    What if they’ve therefore decided that American isolationism is the answer - building an impregnable fortress in the wider Americas, which contains all the resources it needs and has all means to defend itself - especially if they can seize the vast mineral wealth and strategic location of Greenland

    In that light the seizure of Greenland makes “sense”. They just don’t care. America must have what it needs for security and fuck Denmark (and Greenland)

    If this is their thinking - rather than just a trumpian flight of lunacy - then it has an internal logic. It is also crazily risky and almost certainly a massive error - every nation, no matter how strong, must have allies and alliances

    Just pointing out that it might not be pure insanity. Eg the death of NATO is possibly seen as a positive by product
    Then, that would be a failure of imagination.

    America has less than 5% of humanity's population, and isn't anything like as invulnerable or omnipotent as it thinks it is.

    They soon will care when they realise such actions leave Americans friendless, their markets smaller, access to products reduced, and - being no longer able or trusted to shape world events - a recipient of the chaos that causes, which it will.
    Technology may be about to render all this very arguable
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,211
    isam said:

    I am deeply concerned that so many Reform voters don't see this for what it is.

    They seem to think Trump can do no wrong, and if anyone opposes him then that's a sign that he himself must be supported.

    I did vote Reform in 2024, but have never been all in on Trump, and probably won’t vote Reform next time anyway. I liked that he tore up the rule book and gave the centrists/lefty can’t do’s a kick up the arse, but his response to the film directors death recently woke me up to what a crass person he is. Now it seems like he is getting crazier every day.

    Not that it would cross his mind, but he has put Farage in a bit of a muddle now. Laying Reform most seats at 2 seems even better than before, I think it’s been a bad week for them

    EDIT It’s 2.1 now, predictable drift
    I don't like bullies, wherever they come from on the political spectrum. Nor the weaponising of law and trade for those ends.

    I agree the lay still looks good.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,279

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck these people

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is now making an explicit link between the US desire to annex Greenland and the continuation of US support for Ukraine.

    "What would happen in Ukraine if the US pulled its support out? The whole thing would collapse," Bessent told Meet The Press.

    The damage these people are doing will take decades to heal. How can anyone trust the US again when it behaves like this to allies?
    What if they don’t care?


    That’s one disturbing rationale. What if they’ve decided that NATO can go fuck itself (ditto Ukraine), and the Europeans are a bunch of expensive effete losers determined to immigrate their nations to death - ergo they are doomed and useless allies now and forever

    What if they’ve therefore decided that American isolationism is the answer - building an impregnable fortress in the wider Americas, which contains all the resources it needs and has all means to defend itself - especially if they can seize the vast mineral wealth and strategic location of Greenland

    In that light the seizure of Greenland makes “sense”. They just don’t care. America must have what it needs for security and fuck Denmark (and Greenland)

    If this is their thinking - rather than just a trumpian flight of lunacy - then it has an internal logic. It is also crazily risky and almost certainly a massive error - every nation, no matter how strong, must have allies and alliances

    Just pointing out that it might not be pure insanity. Eg the death of NATO is possibly seen as a positive by product
    Then, that would be a failure of imagination.

    America has less than 5% of humanity's population, and isn't anything like as invulnerable or omnipotent as it thinks it is.

    They soon will care when they realise such actions leave Americans friendless, their markets smaller, access to products reduced, and - being no longer able or trusted to shape world events - a recipient of the chaos that causes, which it will.
    But that's all in the future, and therefore someone else's problem.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,440
    edited 5:50PM
    The US government may have other matters to deal with. The amount of freah hardware appearing in the Middle East is notable. Interestingly a lot of the new stuff is sitting in Jordan and that aircraft carrier that is apparently days away is closer than some imagine.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,306
    edited 5:51PM

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck these people

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is now making an explicit link between the US desire to annex Greenland and the continuation of US support for Ukraine.

    "What would happen in Ukraine if the US pulled its support out? The whole thing would collapse," Bessent told Meet The Press.

    The damage these people are doing will take decades to heal. How can anyone trust the US again when it behaves like this to allies?
    What if they don’t care?


    That’s one disturbing rationale. What if they’ve decided that NATO can go fuck itself (ditto Ukraine), and the Europeans are a bunch of expensive effete losers determined to immigrate their nations to death - ergo they are doomed and useless allies now and forever

    What if they’ve therefore decided that American isolationism is the answer - building an impregnable fortress in the wider Americas, which contains all the resources it needs and has all means to defend itself - especially if they can seize the vast mineral wealth and strategic location of Greenland

    In that light the seizure of Greenland makes “sense”. They just don’t care. America must have what it needs for security and fuck Denmark (and Greenland)

    If this is their thinking - rather than just a trumpian flight of lunacy - then it has an internal logic. It is also crazily risky and almost certainly a massive error - every nation, no matter how strong, must have allies and alliances

    Just pointing out that it might not be pure insanity. Eg the death of NATO is possibly seen as a positive by product
    Then, that would be a failure of imagination.

    America has less than 5% of humanity's population, and isn't anything like as invulnerable or omnipotent as it thinks it is.

    They soon will care when they realise such actions leave Americans friendless, their markets smaller, access to products reduced, and - being no longer able or trusted to shape world events - a recipient of the chaos that causes, which it will.
    But that's all in the future, and therefore someone else's problem.
    But look at TrumpGreenland and imagine all the wealth it will generate as they mine the beauty away and sell it to China..
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,019
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    It is really interesting that Reform is so out of line on this. 39% "strongly oppose". If the bulk of Reform's support is from former Tories, then they must have had their minds melted in the journey across.
    I think about half of the Reform vote is from weathy older Shire voters not unlike the Tories, but the other half is from those swapping various MAGA conspiracy theories on Social Media.

    All parties are coalitions, but this doesn't seem a natural fit in the long term. Farage knows this and its one reason that he won't criticize Trump.
    You seriously think about 14.5% of the country are swapping MAGA conspiracy stories online 🙄
    Last night one of my Tweets about Greenland went viral, I'd say about 40% of the replies are MAGA bullshit by Brits.

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/status/2012566644493627792

    I get replies like these as well.

    Go live in Pakistan then bro

    https://x.com/Frank6awa/status/2012661929332920536

    Get fucked. I'd rather not support the Fouth Reich, you fucking Nazi

    https://x.com/HashMan10600431/status/2012629647645671488

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.
    I'd forgotten you still had a Twitter account. Can't be fun, given that it is chock full of nutters. Have you thought of migrating to Bluesky and going on Matt Wardman's Political Betting starter pack?

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/
    https://bsky.app/starter-pack/mattwardman.bsky.social/3lfk4fvp5yv26
    https://bsky.app/profile/mattwardman.bsky.social
    lol, bless
    "chock full of nutters".
    Whereas Bluesky is a silent desert with the odd shrieking group of pious lefty nutters, acidly bickering with each other and wondering why no one wants to join them

    Think I prefer the unruly crowds and fun
    There’s been an influx of Lib Dem MPs since the spat about image doctoring.

    What a loss to Twitter they are.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,279
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck these people

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is now making an explicit link between the US desire to annex Greenland and the continuation of US support for Ukraine.

    "What would happen in Ukraine if the US pulled its support out? The whole thing would collapse," Bessent told Meet The Press.

    The damage these people are doing will take decades to heal. How can anyone trust the US again when it behaves like this to allies?
    What if they don’t care?


    That’s one disturbing rationale. What if they’ve decided that NATO can go fuck itself (ditto Ukraine), and the Europeans are a bunch of expensive effete losers determined to immigrate their nations to death - ergo they are doomed and useless allies now and forever

    What if they’ve therefore decided that American isolationism is the answer - building an impregnable fortress in the wider Americas, which contains all the resources it needs and has all means to defend itself - especially if they can seize the vast mineral wealth and strategic location of Greenland

    In that light the seizure of Greenland makes “sense”. They just don’t care. America must have what it needs for security and fuck Denmark (and Greenland)

    If this is their thinking - rather than just a trumpian flight of lunacy - then it has an internal logic. It is also crazily risky and almost certainly a massive error - every nation, no matter how strong, must have allies and alliances

    Just pointing out that it might not be pure insanity. Eg the death of NATO is possibly seen as a positive by product
    Then, that would be a failure of imagination.

    America has less than 5% of humanity's population, and isn't anything like as invulnerable or omnipotent as it thinks it is.

    They soon will care when they realise such actions leave Americans friendless, their markets smaller, access to products reduced, and - being no longer able or trusted to shape world events - a recipient of the chaos that causes, which it will.
    Technology may be about to render all this very arguable
    And if it turns out that through means fair and foul, China has a huge advantage in that technology?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,351
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Official US denial of the French story regarding Ukranian intelligence, they say it’s Russian propaganda.

    https://x.com/cforcd/status/2012899212304748816

    The aphorism of Mandy Rice-Davies applies, surely?
    I don’t know, but start from the assumption that routine operational data sharing doesn’t go up as high as the politicians unless it’s something very significant.

    It would be a weird thing to be caught doing while the US is involved in trying to broker a ceasefire. It doesn’t smell right as presented, and I haven’t yet gone through all of the French report material.

    I wonder if we will also see a Ukranian denial?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,792
    An American POV. She's always watchable but if you don't find her so go to the poll at 13 mins on how various countries see the US . 25% of the UK still see them as allies. The figure for the EU is down to just 16%

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-MtRp4LTqc

  • TresTres Posts: 3,416
    Dura_Ace said:

    isam said:



    Not that it would cross his mind, but he has put Farage in a bit of a muddle now. Laying Reform most seats at 2 seems even better than before, I think it’s been a bad week for them

    I used to think that any political downside to Big Nige's Trump adjacency was overblown. Now, as Trump gets increasingly crackers and still unchallenged by most of the US political and media landscape, I'm not sure. There is so much Farage/Trump bollocks on records, if Trump goes down he could well take c-nt features with him.
    Apparently GB News has spent all day simping for Trump,
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,351
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    It is really interesting that Reform is so out of line on this. 39% "strongly oppose". If the bulk of Reform's support is from former Tories, then they must have had their minds melted in the journey across.
    I think about half of the Reform vote is from weathy older Shire voters not unlike the Tories, but the other half is from those swapping various MAGA conspiracy theories on Social Media.

    All parties are coalitions, but this doesn't seem a natural fit in the long term. Farage knows this and its one reason that he won't criticize Trump.
    You seriously think about 14.5% of the country are swapping MAGA conspiracy stories online 🙄
    Last night one of my Tweets about Greenland went viral, I'd say about 40% of the replies are MAGA bullshit by Brits.

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/status/2012566644493627792

    I get replies like these as well.

    Go live in Pakistan then bro

    https://x.com/Frank6awa/status/2012661929332920536

    Get fucked. I'd rather not support the Fouth Reich, you fucking Nazi

    https://x.com/HashMan10600431/status/2012629647645671488

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.
    I'd forgotten you still had a Twitter account. Can't be fun, given that it is chock full of nutters. Have you thought of migrating to Bluesky and going on Matt Wardman's Political Betting starter pack?

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/
    https://bsky.app/starter-pack/mattwardman.bsky.social/3lfk4fvp5yv26
    https://bsky.app/profile/mattwardman.bsky.social
    lol, bless
    "chock full of nutters".
    Whereas Bluesky is a silent desert with the odd shrieking group of pious lefty nutters, acidly bickering with each other and wondering why no one wants to join them

    Think I prefer the unruly crowds and fun
    There’s been an influx of Lib Dem MPs since the spat about image doctoring.

    What a loss to Twitter they are.
    Ed Davey still keep popping up in my Twitter timeline, mostly coming across as a student activist yelling into the void at the US President.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,173
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck these people

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is now making an explicit link between the US desire to annex Greenland and the continuation of US support for Ukraine.

    "What would happen in Ukraine if the US pulled its support out? The whole thing would collapse," Bessent told Meet The Press.

    The damage these people are doing will take decades to heal. How can anyone trust the US again when it behaves like this to allies?
    What if they don’t care?


    That’s one disturbing rationale. What if they’ve decided that NATO can go fuck itself (ditto Ukraine), and the Europeans are a bunch of expensive effete losers determined to immigrate their nations to death - ergo they are doomed and useless allies now and forever

    What if they’ve therefore decided that American isolationism is the answer - building an impregnable fortress in the wider Americas, which contains all the resources it needs and has all means to defend itself - especially if they can seize the vast mineral wealth and strategic location of Greenland

    In that light the seizure of Greenland makes “sense”. They just don’t care. America must have what it needs for security and fuck Denmark (and Greenland)

    If this is their thinking - rather than just a trumpian flight of lunacy - then it has an internal logic. It is also crazily risky and almost certainly a massive error - every nation, no matter how strong, must have allies and alliances

    Just pointing out that it might not be pure insanity. Eg the death of NATO is possibly seen as a positive by product
    Then, that would be a failure of imagination.

    America has less than 5% of humanity's population, and isn't anything like as invulnerable or omnipotent as it thinks it is.

    They soon will care when they realise such actions leave Americans friendless, their markets smaller, access to products reduced, and - being no longer able or trusted to shape world events - a recipient of the chaos that causes, which it will.
    Technology may be about to render all this very arguable
    “Technology (what?) may be (uncertainty) about to (vague timeframe) render all this very arguable (unclear what this even means - does it mean "highly debatable" or "potentially invalid"?)
  • eekeek Posts: 32,306
    Tres said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    isam said:



    Not that it would cross his mind, but he has put Farage in a bit of a muddle now. Laying Reform most seats at 2 seems even better than before, I think it’s been a bad week for them

    I used to think that any political downside to Big Nige's Trump adjacency was overblown. Now, as Trump gets increasingly crackers and still unchallenged by most of the US political and media landscape, I'm not sure. There is so much Farage/Trump bollocks on records, if Trump goes down he could well take c-nt features with him.
    Apparently GB News has spent all day simping for Trump,
    It's the cheapest way for Paul Marshall to buy favours off Trump and Farage...
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,954
    edited 6:09PM
    If Trump is deluded about the simplicity of going for Greenland, per the headline, does that make him Dilulissat*.

    * place names you didn't know existed a few weeks ago, but can pun around now.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,410
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    It is really interesting that Reform is so out of line on this. 39% "strongly oppose". If the bulk of Reform's support is from former Tories, then they must have had their minds melted in the journey across.
    I think about half of the Reform vote is from weathy older Shire voters not unlike the Tories, but the other half is from those swapping various MAGA conspiracy theories on Social Media.

    All parties are coalitions, but this doesn't seem a natural fit in the long term. Farage knows this and its one reason that he won't criticize Trump.
    You seriously think about 14.5% of the country are swapping MAGA conspiracy stories online 🙄
    Last night one of my Tweets about Greenland went viral, I'd say about 40% of the replies are MAGA bullshit by Brits.

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/status/2012566644493627792

    I get replies like these as well.

    Go live in Pakistan then bro

    https://x.com/Frank6awa/status/2012661929332920536

    Get fucked. I'd rather not support the Fouth Reich, you fucking Nazi

    https://x.com/HashMan10600431/status/2012629647645671488

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.
    I'd forgotten you still had a Twitter account. Can't be fun, given that it is chock full of nutters. Have you thought of migrating to Bluesky and going on Matt Wardman's Political Betting starter pack?

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/
    https://bsky.app/starter-pack/mattwardman.bsky.social/3lfk4fvp5yv26
    https://bsky.app/profile/mattwardman.bsky.social
    lol, bless
    "chock full of nutters".
    Whereas Bluesky is a silent desert with the odd shrieking group of pious lefty nutters, acidly bickering with each other and wondering why no one wants to join them

    Think I prefer the unruly crowds and fun
    There’s been an influx of Lib Dem MPs since the spat about image doctoring.

    What a loss to Twitter they are.
    Ed Davey still keep popping up in my Twitter timeline, mostly coming across as a student activist yelling into the void at the US President.
    I'm pretty sure the only cure is to amputate your twitter timeline. Some of your limbs may have to go too, but the end result will be far better.
  • isam said:

    I am deeply concerned that so many Reform voters don't see this for what it is.

    They seem to think Trump can do no wrong, and if anyone opposes him then that's a sign that he himself must be supported.

    I did vote Reform in 2024, but have never been all in on Trump, and probably won’t vote Reform next time anyway. I liked that he tore up the rule book and gave the centrists/lefty can’t do’s a kick up the arse, but his response to the film directors death recently woke me up to what a crass person he is. Now it seems like he is getting crazier every day.

    Not that it would cross his mind, but he has put Farage in a bit of a muddle now. Laying Reform most seats at 2 seems even better than before, I think it’s been a bad week for them

    EDIT It’s 2.1 now, predictable drift
    There is more rejoicing in heaven etc etc
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,030
    edited 6:19PM
    Roger said:

    An American POV. She's always watchable but if you don't find her so go to the poll at 13 mins on how various countries see the US . 25% of the UK still see them as allies. The figure for the EU is down to just 16%

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-MtRp4LTqc

    Indeed, only in India of the countries polled do a majority, 54%, see the US as an ally at present.

    South Africa, Turkey, as you say the EU, the Ukraine, Switzerland, Russia and China all see the US as even less of an ally than we do. Albeit in one of those nations, Russia, it is slightly viewed more favourably under Trump.

    Brazil and S Korea have a more favourable view of the US than the UK but still less than half favourable
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,338

    Consumer boycotts are the best reply to Trump. As we've said before some aren't easy with the big tech companies being practical monopolies. What has been the impact with Canada over the last twelve months? I'd have thought avoiding holidays (vacations?) in the US would be the easiest win. The sort of thing people spend thousands on.

    I would value some practical advice on how to boycott US goods and services. HMG might start by no longer offering banking and consultancy work to the Wall Street and Boston institutions. There's no need for the Government to make a fuss about it - indeed, it would be better if they didn't. All they (and we) need to do is quietly give business to British, European and other companies.

    I know that as a retail customer my ability to swerve US goods and services is limited - I can't go for 100% purity, but I am certainly not visiting the place, buying their food and wine or investing in US companies for the forseeable future.

    Yes, my actions may be pointless, and I might be cutting off my nose to spite my face, but if all I can do is avoid US goods and services then I am going to do it.
    Buy Samsung, not Apple. Buy Adidas not Nike. Buy Barr's Irn Bru not Cola.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,351
    edited 6:28PM
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Funniest headline of the day:

    Ozempic could save American airlines hundreds of millions of dollars.

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/2012916988973334554

    The story is that if Americans all lost 10% of their weight, airlines would use 1.5% less fuel as a result. They don’t (yes) charge humans by their own weight and the average American is 180lb. 1.5% of the fuel bill across the major American airlines is $580m.

    I have long thought that airlines should charge by combined weight of passenger and baggage.
    That might be the best way of my persuading a certain someone close to me, to pack her bag sensibly for a trip!

    I used to do loads of work travel when younger, so have pretty much mastered taking a large laptop cabin bag with a week’s worth of clothes in it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,770
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Funniest headline of the day:

    Ozempic could save American airlines hundreds of millions of dollars.

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/2012916988973334554

    The story is that if Americans all lost 10% of their weight, airlines would use 1.5% less fuel as a result. They don’t (yes) charge humans by their own weight and the average American is 180lb. 1.5% of the fuel bill across the major American airlines is $580m.

    I have long thought that airlines should charge by combined weight of passenger and baggage.
    That might be the best way of my persuading a certain someone close to me, to pack her bag sensibly for a trip.

    I used to do loads of work travel when younger, so have pretty much mastered taking a large laptop cabin bag with a week’s worth of clothes in it.
    Yes, on our recent tour of India I was relieved that Railway station Porters were omnipresent!

    When we backpacked across SE Asia we had packs of abot 40 litres and 10kg for 3 months, but that was 35 years ago.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,351
    Joint statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, and the United Kingdom:

    https://x.com/danishmfa/status/2012922660640940328

    TL:DR don’t be an idiot Mr Trump.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,019
    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    It is really interesting that Reform is so out of line on this. 39% "strongly oppose". If the bulk of Reform's support is from former Tories, then they must have had their minds melted in the journey across.
    I think about half of the Reform vote is from weathy older Shire voters not unlike the Tories, but the other half is from those swapping various MAGA conspiracy theories on Social Media.

    All parties are coalitions, but this doesn't seem a natural fit in the long term. Farage knows this and its one reason that he won't criticize Trump.
    You seriously think about 14.5% of the country are swapping MAGA conspiracy stories online 🙄
    Last night one of my Tweets about Greenland went viral, I'd say about 40% of the replies are MAGA bullshit by Brits.

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/status/2012566644493627792

    I get replies like these as well.

    Go live in Pakistan then bro

    https://x.com/Frank6awa/status/2012661929332920536

    Get fucked. I'd rather not support the Fouth Reich, you fucking Nazi

    https://x.com/HashMan10600431/status/2012629647645671488

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.
    I'd forgotten you still had a Twitter account. Can't be fun, given that it is chock full of nutters. Have you thought of migrating to Bluesky and going on Matt Wardman's Political Betting starter pack?

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/
    https://bsky.app/starter-pack/mattwardman.bsky.social/3lfk4fvp5yv26
    https://bsky.app/profile/mattwardman.bsky.social
    lol, bless
    "chock full of nutters".
    Whereas Bluesky is a silent desert with the odd shrieking group of pious lefty nutters, acidly bickering with each other and wondering why no one wants to join them

    Think I prefer the unruly crowds and fun
    There’s been an influx of Lib Dem MPs since the spat about image doctoring.

    What a loss to Twitter they are.
    Ed Davey still keep popping up in my Twitter timeline, mostly coming across as a student activist yelling into the void at the US President.
    I'm pretty sure the only cure is to amputate your twitter timeline. Some of your limbs may have to go too, but the end result will be far better.
    Most Lib Dem MPs have left Twitter so, it has doubly improved now Grok image stuff is being revolved
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,124

    Consumer boycotts are the best reply to Trump. As we've said before some aren't easy with the big tech companies being practical monopolies. What has been the impact with Canada over the last twelve months? I'd have thought avoiding holidays (vacations?) in the US would be the easiest win. The sort of thing people spend thousands on.

    I would value some practical advice on how to boycott US goods and services. HMG might start by no longer offering banking and consultancy work to the Wall Street and Boston institutions. There's no need for the Government to make a fuss about it - indeed, it would be better if they didn't. All they (and we) need to do is quietly give business to British, European and other companies.

    I know that as a retail customer my ability to swerve US goods and services is limited - I can't go for 100% purity, but I am certainly not visiting the place, buying their food and wine or investing in US companies for the forseeable future.

    Yes, my actions may be pointless, and I might be cutting off my nose to spite my face, but if all I can do is avoid US goods and services then I am going to do it.
    Buy Samsung, not Apple. Buy Adidas not Nike. Buy Barr's Irn Bru not Cola.
    Be like Canada.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,156

    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck these people

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is now making an explicit link between the US desire to annex Greenland and the continuation of US support for Ukraine.

    "What would happen in Ukraine if the US pulled its support out? The whole thing would collapse," Bessent told Meet The Press.

    "The whole thing" being the pretence that Trump's desire to annex Greenland has the slightest thing to do with security?
    The underlying conceit is that the US is scared of Russia getting a foothold in Greenland - when it could crush Russia for decades by helping it be driven out of Ukraine.

    What a bunch of See You Next Tuesdays they are in that Administration.
    Trump probably wants Greenland so desperately to be able to make a 'deal' and give it to Russia himself.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,770
    Tres said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    isam said:



    Not that it would cross his mind, but he has put Farage in a bit of a muddle now. Laying Reform most seats at 2 seems even better than before, I think it’s been a bad week for them

    I used to think that any political downside to Big Nige's Trump adjacency was overblown. Now, as Trump gets increasingly crackers and still unchallenged by most of the US political and media landscape, I'm not sure. There is so much Farage/Trump bollocks on records, if Trump goes down he could well take c-nt features with him.
    Apparently GB News has spent all day simping for Trump,
    Thats the thing. They claim to be patriots yet cheer on our enemis, and yes to impose tarrifs on us for helping a NATO ally does make them an enemy.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,019
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    It is really interesting that Reform is so out of line on this. 39% "strongly oppose". If the bulk of Reform's support is from former Tories, then they must have had their minds melted in the journey across.
    I think about half of the Reform vote is from weathy older Shire voters not unlike the Tories, but the other half is from those swapping various MAGA conspiracy theories on Social Media.

    All parties are coalitions, but this doesn't seem a natural fit in the long term. Farage knows this and its one reason that he won't criticize Trump.
    You seriously think about 14.5% of the country are swapping MAGA conspiracy stories online 🙄
    Last night one of my Tweets about Greenland went viral, I'd say about 40% of the replies are MAGA bullshit by Brits.

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/status/2012566644493627792

    I get replies like these as well.

    Go live in Pakistan then bro

    https://x.com/Frank6awa/status/2012661929332920536

    Get fucked. I'd rather not support the Fouth Reich, you fucking Nazi

    https://x.com/HashMan10600431/status/2012629647645671488

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.
    I'd forgotten you still had a Twitter account. Can't be fun, given that it is chock full of nutters. Have you thought of migrating to Bluesky and going on Matt Wardman's Political Betting starter pack?

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/
    https://bsky.app/starter-pack/mattwardman.bsky.social/3lfk4fvp5yv26
    https://bsky.app/profile/mattwardman.bsky.social
    lol, bless
    "chock full of nutters".
    Whereas Bluesky is a silent desert with the odd shrieking group of pious lefty nutters, acidly bickering with each other and wondering why no one wants to join them

    Think I prefer the unruly crowds and fun
    There’s been an influx of Lib Dem MPs since the spat about image doctoring.

    What a loss to Twitter they are.
    Ed Davey still keep popping up in my Twitter timeline, mostly coming across as a student activist yelling into the void at the US President.
    It looks like the Lib Dem MPs are tiring of the ‘Hammer of the Sub Postmasters’.

    Could he be on borrowed time now?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/18/liberal-democrat-mps-frustrated-ed-davey-leader
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,169

    Consumer boycotts are the best reply to Trump. As we've said before some aren't easy with the big tech companies being practical monopolies. What has been the impact with Canada over the last twelve months? I'd have thought avoiding holidays (vacations?) in the US would be the easiest win. The sort of thing people spend thousands on.

    I would value some practical advice on how to boycott US goods and services. HMG might start by no longer offering banking and consultancy work to the Wall Street and Boston institutions. There's no need for the Government to make a fuss about it - indeed, it would be better if they didn't. All they (and we) need to do is quietly give business to British, European and other companies.

    I know that as a retail customer my ability to swerve US goods and services is limited - I can't go for 100% purity, but I am certainly not visiting the place, buying their food and wine or investing in US companies for the forseeable future.

    Yes, my actions may be pointless, and I might be cutting off my nose to spite my face, but if all I can do is avoid US goods and services then I am going to do it.
    Buy Samsung, not Apple. Buy Adidas not Nike. Buy Barr's Irn Bru not Cola.
    I'm due a new phone and I'm much more likely to go for an S25 versus a pixel 10 or iphone as a result of all this. Difficult to turn down a £200 trade-in bonus though...

    The S&S ISA. 55%ish US stocks. Not sure I should sacrifice what is supposed to be an early retirement pot for what I hope is only a medium term disaster in America.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,106
    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    An American POV. She's always watchable but if you don't find her so go to the poll at 13 mins on how various countries see the US . 25% of the UK still see them as allies. The figure for the EU is down to just 16%

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-MtRp4LTqc

    Indeed, only in India of the countries polled do a majority, 54%, see the US as an ally at present.

    South Africa, Turkey, as you say the EU, the Ukraine, Switzerland, Russia and China all see the US as even less of an ally than we do. Albeit in one of those nations, Russia, it is slightly viewed more favourably under Trump.

    Brazil and S Korea have a more favourable view of the US than the UK but still less than half favourable
    How can anyone see America as an ally?

    It's not just that Trump is behaving like a greedy bully. The issue is he changes his mind and his policies very frequently according to the state of his medication, who last talked to him, his need to deflect attention from economic and political mistakes he's making and it would seem even how badly his last round of golf went.

    Such a person cannot be depended upon, and therefore isn't an ally.

    The only way to guarantee his focus would be to have compromising material on him or a senior figure in the administration.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,019
    Sandpit said:

    Joint statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, and the United Kingdom:

    https://x.com/danishmfa/status/2012922660640940328

    TL:DR don’t be an idiot Mr Trump.

    Sec Gen of NATO

    ‘ Spoke with @POTUS regarding the security situation in Greenland and the Arctic. We will continue working on this, and I look forward to seeing him in Davos later this week.’


    https://x.com/secgennato/status/2012928533094363411?s=61
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,106
    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    isam said:



    Not that it would cross his mind, but he has put Farage in a bit of a muddle now. Laying Reform most seats at 2 seems even better than before, I think it’s been a bad week for them

    I used to think that any political downside to Big Nige's Trump adjacency was overblown. Now, as Trump gets increasingly crackers and still unchallenged by most of the US political and media landscape, I'm not sure. There is so much Farage/Trump bollocks on records, if Trump goes down he could well take c-nt features with him.
    Apparently GB News has spent all day simping for Trump,
    Thats the thing. They claim to be patriots yet cheer on our enemis, and yes to impose tarrifs on us for helping a NATO ally does make them an enemy.
    If they are cheering on our enemies, are they our enemas?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,351
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Funniest headline of the day:

    Ozempic could save American airlines hundreds of millions of dollars.

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/2012916988973334554

    The story is that if Americans all lost 10% of their weight, airlines would use 1.5% less fuel as a result. They don’t (yes) charge humans by their own weight and the average American is 180lb. 1.5% of the fuel bill across the major American airlines is $580m.

    I have long thought that airlines should charge by combined weight of passenger and baggage.
    That might be the best way of my persuading a certain someone close to me, to pack her bag sensibly for a trip.

    I used to do loads of work travel when younger, so have pretty much mastered taking a large laptop cabin bag with a week’s worth of clothes in it.
    Yes, on our recent tour of India I was relieved that Railway station Porters were omnipresent!

    When we backpacked across SE Asia we had packs of abot 40 litres and 10kg for 3 months, but that was 35 years ago.
    Indeed. The more stuff you take the more stressful the trip, and certain points like the check-in/bag-drop desks add time and uncertainty to the process.

    Last summer we did Dubai>Poland>Ukraine>Poland>UK>Poland>Dubai, with a wide variety of planes, trains, and automobiles used along the way.

    Couldn’t have done it hauling the 30kg bag which is Emirates usual standard allowance in economy, and is for some reason seen by some of their customers *cough* as a target rather than a limit.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,355

    Consumer boycotts are the best reply to Trump. As we've said before some aren't easy with the big tech companies being practical monopolies. What has been the impact with Canada over the last twelve months? I'd have thought avoiding holidays (vacations?) in the US would be the easiest win. The sort of thing people spend thousands on.

    I would value some practical advice on how to boycott US goods and services. HMG might start by no longer offering banking and consultancy work to the Wall Street and Boston institutions. There's no need for the Government to make a fuss about it - indeed, it would be better if they didn't. All they (and we) need to do is quietly give business to British, European and other companies.

    I know that as a retail customer my ability to swerve US goods and services is limited - I can't go for 100% purity, but I am certainly not visiting the place, buying their food and wine or investing in US companies for the forseeable future.

    Yes, my actions may be pointless, and I might be cutting off my nose to spite my face, but if all I can do is avoid US goods and services then I am going to do it.
    Buy Samsung, not Apple. Buy Adidas not Nike. Buy Barr's Irn Bru not Cola.
    Barr's Gordon Bru - made in Scotland from girdles!
  • isamisam Posts: 43,383
    edited 6:44PM

    isam said:

    I am deeply concerned that so many Reform voters don't see this for what it is.

    They seem to think Trump can do no wrong, and if anyone opposes him then that's a sign that he himself must be supported.

    I did vote Reform in 2024, but have never been all in on Trump, and probably won’t vote Reform next time anyway. I liked that he tore up the rule book and gave the centrists/lefty can’t do’s a kick up the arse, but his response to the film directors death recently woke me up to what a crass person he is. Now it seems like he is getting crazier every day.

    Not that it would cross his mind, but he has put Farage in a bit of a muddle now. Laying Reform most seats at 2 seems even better than before, I think it’s been a bad week for them

    EDIT It’s 2.1 now, predictable drift
    There is more rejoicing in heaven etc etc
    To be honest even though I voted and campaigned for UKIP/Leave, and have been on the Farage side of politics for a decade or so, what I wanted was for the establishment to listen, and change their ways on immigration rather than actually have Farage as PM. It’s probably true that he is best as leader of a pressure group. I would have happily stayed in the EU if Cameron would have done anything meaningful about immigration. After the event, lots of people pointed out that there was a way of doing so whilst staying in the EU, but that just proved the point that the establishment were not interested in listening.

    I don’t really follow US politics, but it seems to me the same happened there; the establishment refused to listen to the concerns of ordinary people, so we end up with chaos. It is the equivalent of workers going on strike when the bosses won’t play fair. The centrist/liberal elite were tin eared and pushed their luck a bit too far by insulting their opponents. The results were Brexit (revenge of the fruitcakes and racists), POTUS Trump (revenge of the deplorables) and possibly PM Farage (revenge of the right wing thugs)

    So I wouldn’t say I was a sinner who has repented. Sometimes you have to resort to a kind of political terrorism if the people in charge won’t listen
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,505
    Dura_Ace said:

    isam said:



    Not that it would cross his mind, but he has put Farage in a bit of a muddle now. Laying Reform most seats at 2 seems even better than before, I think it’s been a bad week for them

    I used to think that any political downside to Big Nige's Trump adjacency was overblown. Now, as Trump gets increasingly crackers and still unchallenged by most of the US political and media landscape, I'm not sure. There is so much Farage/Trump bollocks on records, if Trump goes down he could well take c-nt features with him.
    Prior to the last Presidential Election a fair old number of Tory privateers went over to the good ol' US of A to cheerlead the Orange Messiah. Meanwhile a charabanc of sandal wearing bearded lefties went over on a semi official Labour Party jolly to help out Kamala only to be roundly condemned by the right wing media and some of our very own PB Trump fanbois.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,770
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    An American POV. She's always watchable but if you don't find her so go to the poll at 13 mins on how various countries see the US . 25% of the UK still see them as allies. The figure for the EU is down to just 16%

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-MtRp4LTqc

    Indeed, only in India of the countries polled do a majority, 54%, see the US as an ally at present.

    South Africa, Turkey, as you say the EU, the Ukraine, Switzerland, Russia and China all see the US as even less of an ally than we do. Albeit in one of those nations, Russia, it is slightly viewed more favourably under Trump.

    Brazil and S Korea have a more favourable view of the US than the UK but still less than half favourable
    How can anyone see America as an ally?

    It's not just that Trump is behaving like a greedy bully. The issue is he changes his mind and his policies very frequently according to the state of his medication, who last talked to him, his need to deflect attention from economic and political mistakes he's making and it would seem even how badly his last round of golf went.

    Such a person cannot be depended upon, and therefore isn't an ally.

    The only way to guarantee his focus would be to have compromising material on him or a senior figure in the administration.
    Perhaps our spooks need to nick us a copy of the Epstein Files.

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,089
    Sandpit said:

    Joint statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, and the United Kingdom:

    https://x.com/danishmfa/status/2012922660640940328

    TL:DR don’t be an idiot Mr Trump.

    So nothing but words then. Trump will be shitting himself.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,770

    Consumer boycotts are the best reply to Trump. As we've said before some aren't easy with the big tech companies being practical monopolies. What has been the impact with Canada over the last twelve months? I'd have thought avoiding holidays (vacations?) in the US would be the easiest win. The sort of thing people spend thousands on.

    I would value some practical advice on how to boycott US goods and services. HMG might start by no longer offering banking and consultancy work to the Wall Street and Boston institutions. There's no need for the Government to make a fuss about it - indeed, it would be better if they didn't. All they (and we) need to do is quietly give business to British, European and other companies.

    I know that as a retail customer my ability to swerve US goods and services is limited - I can't go for 100% purity, but I am certainly not visiting the place, buying their food and wine or investing in US companies for the forseeable future.

    Yes, my actions may be pointless, and I might be cutting off my nose to spite my face, but if all I can do is avoid US goods and services then I am going to do it.
    Buy Samsung, not Apple. Buy Adidas not Nike. Buy Barr's Irn Bru not Cola.
    Barr's Gordon Bru - made in Scotland from girdles!
    Surely that's Barrs Irn Bra?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,218
    Sandpit said:

    Joint statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, and the United Kingdom:

    https://x.com/danishmfa/status/2012922660640940328

    TL:DR don’t be an idiot Mr Trump.

    Statement from Ireland:

    Careful now.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,405
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:



    Just pointing out that it might not be pure insanity. Eg the death of NATO is possibly seen as a positive by product

    I may be overthinking it, but getting the US out of NATO, an objective with which I have some sympathy, is what's behind all this Greenland bollocks. It's upending 70 years of US strategic doctrine so Miller, JDV and the rest of the danse macabre need an imperative. Handily annexing Greenland resonates with DJT's pleonexia and sadism.

    After all, we need them a hell of a lot more than they need us.
    I don't agree with you all that often, but that's almost exactly what I suggested earlier.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,355
    Tres said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    isam said:



    Not that it would cross his mind, but he has put Farage in a bit of a muddle now. Laying Reform most seats at 2 seems even better than before, I think it’s been a bad week for them

    I used to think that any political downside to Big Nige's Trump adjacency was overblown. Now, as Trump gets increasingly crackers and still unchallenged by most of the US political and media landscape, I'm not sure. There is so much Farage/Trump bollocks on records, if Trump goes down he could well take c-nt features with him.
    Apparently GB News has spent all day simping for Trump,
    On weekdays at 7pm, they have an hour's slot called "Farage", but half the time he's not even on, with others having to deputise for him!

    (disclaimer: I only watch GB News for "research" purposes)
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