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Your regular reminder national vote share doesn’t always matter under FPTP – politicalbetting.com

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  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,470

    AnneJGP said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Perhaps if Reform does achieve a majority and then falls apart, the resulting sort-of coalition government will change the voting system and then call a fresh election.

    Altering the voting system without a mandate is a rather alarming precedent to set.
    1969
    1918
    1885
    1867

    The precedent is well and truly set.
    Franchise extension isn’t the same as altering the system.
    Those all included significant changes to the way that voting happened including the abolition of several seats with multiple MPs. (I could have added 1948 from that point of view as well.)
    Not the fundamentals of the system

    MPs represent a geographic community (with the partial exception of the former university seats). The person with the most votes is selected as the representative of that community for a period of time.

    Everything else is detail.
    So switching to AV would be fine. That preserves MPs representing a geographic community, with the person with most votes selected.
    I would very firmly disapprove of any system that could not elect the person who was everybody's second choice but nobody's first choice.
    So would I, but none of the PR systems are like that. Even AV ranks the candidates in terms of their first votes. If a candidate had no first votes they would be at the bottom!
    To my mind that's the problem. PR sets out to elect someone with wide approval but totally ignores everyone's second favourite.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,145
    edited December 15

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Perhaps if Reform does achieve a majority and then falls apart, the resulting sort-of coalition government will change the voting system and then call a fresh election.

    Altering the voting system without a mandate is a rather alarming precedent to set.
    It’s already been set.
    Holyrood - voting system set up by Lab and LDs, in a very, erm, *specific* way that I don't recall (admittedly it was a long time ago) being put in any manifesto.

    Edit: No specific mandate, except in suchlike as voting at Holyrood was seen as legitimising it, as it was agreed at and implemented by Westminster.
    A system of gerrymandering set up to keep Labour in power permanently, with the help of the Lib Dems, which was successful until Labour were so useless that they were deservedly kicked out.
    If Holyrood had been set up with FPTP would Scotland now be independent?
    (of course on the dubious premise of Westminster paying any attention to repeated SNP majorities)
    HYUFD would have driven his tank to Holyrood to prevent independence even if 100% of Scottish voters had voted SNP.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,470
    edited December 15
    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Where are you? The local council should be able to help him if you let them know.

    Edit, sorry, didn't see you're in France.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,765

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Give money to a local homelessness charity along with this chap's particulars. (The classic embarrassed liberal solution.)
    Of course. That way the Good People working hard in administration at the homelessness charity will be able to afford plenty of Christmas presents for their children next week.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,582

    ydoethur said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Perhaps if Reform does achieve a majority and then falls apart, the resulting sort-of coalition government will change the voting system and then call a fresh election.

    Altering the voting system without a mandate is a rather alarming precedent to set.
    1969
    1918
    1885
    1867

    The precedent is well and truly set.
    Franchise extension isn’t the same as altering the system.
    This is your rule.
    Do you have a mandate?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,561
    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Give money to a local homelessness charity along with this chap's particulars. (The classic embarrassed liberal solution.)
    Of course. That way the Good People working hard in administration at the homelessness charity will be able to afford plenty of Christmas presents for their children next week.
    Bollocks. Just because your political heroes are corrupt doesn't mean all charities are.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,765

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Give money to a local homelessness charity along with this chap's particulars. (The classic embarrassed liberal solution.)
    Of course. That way the Good People working hard in administration at the homelessness charity will be able to afford plenty of Christmas presents for their children next week.
    Bollocks. Just because your political heroes are corrupt doesn't mean all charities are.
    Gavin Newsom is definitely not my political hero. Quite the opposite in fact.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,127
    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Give money to a local homelessness charity along with this chap's particulars. (The classic embarrassed liberal solution.)
    Of course. That way the Good People working hard in administration at the homelessness charity will be able to afford plenty of Christmas presents for their children next week.
    There was a Private Eye joke where they said The Big Issue was to be renamed "Homeless and Gardenless".
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,470
    AnneJGP said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Where are you? The local council should be able to help him if you let them know.

    Edit, sorry, didn't see you're in France.
    Wouldn't the good Socialist solution be to start a movement to improve facilities for the homeless?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,474
    Interesting to come on here after a while (life, eh) and see amongst other things the journey of @Dura_Ace. From bombing the f&&k out of them, to supporting a just ME settlement, to Free Palestine, to Jews control the world full on anti-semitism.

    Or rather ventriloquising anti-semitism. I don't think Dura is an anti-semite, I think he is the 7yr old shouting "poo" to his parents for a reaction. Which, tbf, I've just given him.

    Nevertheless it is enjoyable to see such even performative personal progression. Similar to @williamglenn (no longer it seems of this parish).
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,910
    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Have a chat with him if he doesn't look menacing, and find out what the issues really are?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,474
    Meanwhile, Starmer. What's that all about, eh.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,068

    tlg86 said:

    Now we don't have a 2 party system any more, we can't go on using FPTP. Or does anyone think we are going back to a 2 party system,? Or that FPTP is a good system with lots of parties? The knocking on the door is STV.

    First past the post is the least worst system. Labour are having their chance (and messing it up). Someone else may well get their chance next time. That doesn't happen with PR.
    Pure d'Hondt is used in Denmark (with a 2% cutoff) and IMHO works quite well. You get alliances of left/centre-left and right/centre-right, with one or two centrist parties uncommitted, and can vote not only for a left/right choice but a rather precise variant - perhaps a little more free market plus a little more social caring (Radical Liberals) or a more regulated market without massive state ownership (socialist people's party). I remember rather diffidently (as a foreigner) endorsing the latter in conversation with a traditional conservative - he was shocked at my apologetic tone, and said that was a perfectly reasonable choice, just not his. The system rewards clarity but also willingness to comprimse, whereas FPTP does exactly the opposite.

    d'Hondt would be a mess where no firm(ish) alliances form, so every election produces a messy result and months of negotiations. Ultimately you can't really solve political problems (lack of clarity of alternative options) by tweaking the system. But FPTP has clearly had its day in Britain, as one more election with the winner under 30% will demonstate.
    It's partly a question of culture and history. Compromises have to be made in governing. The issue, in a sense, is where is the system to make them. Our history until recently is of the compromises being made within the two big party system and then being further made by the requirements of necessity once in one party government. I like it as a system.

    Or you can shift the compromising elsewhere, to after elections where we all cheerfully vote for our narrower choices who then argue it out to form and maintain a government.

    It is quite possible that FPTP will be maintained, as any party governing was elected by it, and that it will be used to enable very occasional shifts in what names we apply to the two big parties as they take turns.

    IMO further consideration will have to wait until we see if a Reform government turns out to be like Italy's or like El Salvador's. My view is that a Reform government will be much more centrist (though not more competent) than currently expected.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,765
    Manchester airport operating on only one runway today, after they found a hole in the other one!

    https://x.com/flightradar24/status/2000507378668798276

    Average delay over an hour at the moment.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,474
    edited December 15

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Have a chat with him if he doesn't look menacing, and find out what the issues really are?
    Big ask. Do you have a chat with every (maybe) homeless guy you see. Neither do I. Plenty are there out of "choice" and I say that advisedly, and many others are buffeted by "the system" going from pillar to post to bench because no one will take responsibility for them. So going to "chat" with him is, if I may say to one of the more cerebral PB posters, quite an asinine view. Unless Roger is willing then to take on the entire French social security system, which, as I said, is a big ask even for one undoubtedly as saintly as Roger.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,467

    stodge said:

    Battlebus said:

    The LD dog didn't bark because someone shot it

    Oh dear, 50 years on and the old jokes are still getting an airing.

    I never understand why the Conservatives are so hostile to Ed Milliband's Net Zero policy. After all, they tried it in the mid 1970s.

    The aim was to reduce our dependence on imported oil and coal and what a success - between fuel rationing and power cuts, we cut our use of oil and coal substantially.

    Unfortunately, as per usual, the Conservatives didn't have the courage to see the policy through but it was a good try and especially courageous to bring it in during winter.
    There are some actions that are so iconic that they leash you for ever. Like student fees
    It’s my second favourite scandal after the SNP motor home scandal.
    We should do a PB top 10 political scandals. I guess we'd have to limit to post WW2 and UK only?

    Here's my attempt:

    1. Profumo (I would say that wouldn't I)
    2. The Jeremy Thorpe Affair
    3. Partygate
    4. The Parliamentary Expenses Scandal (2009)
    5. Cash for Questions
    6. Currygate (No not the Covid one - I mean John Major and Edwina Curry, of course - the most unlikely scandal ever.)
    7 John Stonehouse
    8. SNP camper van
    9. The Windrush Scandal
    10. Greensill Capital and David Cameron Lobbying (added especially for TSE)

    I exclude the Post Office Horizon scandal, utterly shocking though it was, because no politicians really got fingered for it.
    Wot - no T Dan Smith-Poulson-Reginal Maudling?
    The Poulson scandal was enormous. I was still in primary school when it broke, and still recall all the adults talking about it (the detail was largely mysterious to a kid).

    But while Maudling's resignation was front page news, and led to reform of Parliamentary rules, the vast majority of the corruption (and it was vast) involved local government and civil servants.

    My favourite bit around his eventual bankruptcy and disgrace:
    ..Whilst the Revenue were pressing Poulson for payment of this amount, he was himself presiding over debt hearings in Wakefield in his role as a Commissioner of Inland Revenue..
  • "It is very, very short and it is very, very blunt"

    Rory and Alastair discuss how Trump's National Security Strategy has some glaring omissions on Russia, China, and North Korea.
    (in 80 seconds)
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Jk38pta66X4
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,288
    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,039

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    Yes dear, why not take a little lie down?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,659

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Have a chat with him if he doesn't look menacing, and find out what the issues really are?
    I asked him if he was Ok and gave him 50 euros for which he gave me a smile so I feel better even if it didn't solve any of his problems. I asked him if he was French but he didn't really answer just nods so I suspect he wasn't.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,826

    tlg86 said:

    Now we don't have a 2 party system any more, we can't go on using FPTP. Or does anyone think we are going back to a 2 party system,? Or that FPTP is a good system with lots of parties? The knocking on the door is STV.

    First past the post is the least worst system. Labour are having their chance (and messing it up). Someone else may well get their chance next time. That doesn't happen with PR.
    Pure d'Hondt is used in Denmark (with a 2% cutoff) and IMHO works quite well. You get alliances of left/centre-left and right/centre-right, with one or two centrist parties uncommitted, and can vote not only for a left/right choice but a rather precise variant - perhaps a little more free market plus a little more social caring (Radical Liberals) or a more regulated market without massive state ownership (socialist people's party). I remember rather diffidently (as a foreigner) endorsing the latter in conversation with a traditional conservative - he was shocked at my apologetic tone, and said that was a perfectly reasonable choice, just not his. The system rewards clarity but also willingness to comprimse, whereas FPTP does exactly the opposite.

    d'Hondt would be a mess where no firm(ish) alliances form, so every election produces a messy result and months of negotiations. Ultimately you can't really solve political problems (lack of clarity of alternative options) by tweaking the system. But FPTP has clearly had its day in Britain, as one more election with the winner under 30% will demonstate.
    I remember discussing their upcoming election with Dutch friends on a visit to them. It was similar to what you describe, with a choice of 2-3 parties that were a good fit for their (slightly differing) political views and fine choices on the balance of importance of differing issues. Choices of multiple parties that could well play a part in government and were close to their views. It seemed an alien utopia to me,as here it's often least-worst option and no really good fit!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,561
    Cicero said:

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    Yes dear, why not take a little lie down?
    People who aren't woke are presumably sleepy and should lie down (and definitely not drive or operate heavy machinery).
  • eekeek Posts: 32,157
    edited December 15
    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Give money to a local homelessness charity along with this chap's particulars. (The classic embarrassed liberal solution.)
    Of course. That way the Good People working hard in administration at the homelessness charity will be able to afford plenty of Christmas presents for their children next week.
    There was a Private Eye joke where they said The Big Issue was to be renamed "Homeless and Gardenless".
    I used to do loads of charity volunteering as a youngster and a student. I now only donate to very small local charities, as the larger ones basically exist to fund themselves more than the cause. Any charity that sees fit to advertise on TV or national newspapers, for example, is too big.
    Likewise anyone with bibs trying to recruit donations either in the street or door to door. That’s a company profiteering from the charity.

    If I had time I would create a website documenting such charities so people knew who to avoid.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,765
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Give money to a local homelessness charity along with this chap's particulars. (The classic embarrassed liberal solution.)
    Of course. That way the Good People working hard in administration at the homelessness charity will be able to afford plenty of Christmas presents for their children next week.
    There was a Private Eye joke where they said The Big Issue was to be renamed "Homeless and Gardenless".
    I used to do loads of charity volunteering as a youngster and a student. I now only donate to very small local charities, as the larger ones basically exist to fund themselves more than the cause. Any charity that sees fit to advertise on TV or national newspapers, for example, is too big.
    Likewise anyone with bibs trying to recruit donations either in the street or door to door. That’s a company profiteering from the charity.
    Yes, that’s gone in a couple of decades from a bunch of volunteer students on a RAG trip shaking tins outside Marks and Spencer, to professional chuggers trying to get you signing up for monthly subscriptions and earning commissions for doing so.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,066

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    He possibly does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Noone
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,865
    I don't know that the LDs can be as well targeted and fortunate as they were in 2024, they basically got all their targets. If I were Ed Davey I'd step down - unless I thought I'd became LotO because of Labour/Tory implosion - as the chances of replicating or building on that will be tough.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,865
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Now we don't have a 2 party system any more, we can't go on using FPTP. Or does anyone think we are going back to a 2 party system,? Or that FPTP is a good system with lots of parties? The knocking on the door is STV.

    First past the post is the least worst system. Labour are having their chance (and messing it up). Someone else may well get their chance next time. That doesn't happen with PR.
    Pure d'Hondt is used in Denmark (with a 2% cutoff) and IMHO works quite well. You get alliances of left/centre-left and right/centre-right, with one or two centrist parties uncommitted, and can vote not only for a left/right choice but a rather precise variant - perhaps a little more free market plus a little more social caring (Radical Liberals) or a more regulated market without massive state ownership (socialist people's party). I remember rather diffidently (as a foreigner) endorsing the latter in conversation with a traditional conservative - he was shocked at my apologetic tone, and said that was a perfectly reasonable choice, just not his. The system rewards clarity but also willingness to comprimse, whereas FPTP does exactly the opposite.

    d'Hondt would be a mess where no firm(ish) alliances form, so every election produces a messy result and months of negotiations. Ultimately you can't really solve political problems (lack of clarity of alternative options) by tweaking the system. But FPTP has clearly had its day in Britain, as one more election with the winner under 30% will demonstate.
    The compromises with first past the post happen before the election.
    Which is infinitely better than the compromises happening after the election. Isn’t that true Mr Clegg?
    I don't mind it either way.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,865

    algarkirk said:

    Now we don't have a 2 party system any more, we can't go on using FPTP. Or does anyone think we are going back to a 2 party system,? Or that FPTP is a good system with lots of parties? The knocking on the door is STV.

    I doubt if it's true that we can't go on using FPTP. We are capable of continuing with anachronisms indefinitely. The greatest difficulties are these. Firstly those with power to change it have, obviously, just gained from FPTP because they form the government. We can note also that the LDs are not shouting loudly about the 2024 unfairness to Reform.

    Secondly, this is like the monarchy/House of Lords etc. It may be anachronistic, but with what do you replace it?

    My own tentative view is that very limited AV is the best. In GEs you can, if you wish, name a second choice which counts as a whole vote from when your first choice is eliminated.
    So, Supplementary Vote, as used in mayoral/PCC elections until recently.
    Aren't Labour now reversing that reversal, or did I imagine that? (For mayors anyway, since they are intending to get rid of PCCs).
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,002
    edited December 15

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    Is that because they’re not into something good ?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,243
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Give money to a local homelessness charity along with this chap's particulars. (The classic embarrassed liberal solution.)
    Of course. That way the Good People working hard in administration at the homelessness charity will be able to afford plenty of Christmas presents for their children next week.
    There was a Private Eye joke where they said The Big Issue was to be renamed "Homeless and Gardenless".
    I used to do loads of charity volunteering as a youngster and a student. I now only donate to very small local charities, as the larger ones basically exist to fund themselves more than the cause. Any charity that sees fit to advertise on TV or national newspapers, for example, is too big.
    Likewise anyone with bibs trying to recruit donations either in the street or door to door. That’s a company profiteering from the charity.
    Yes, that’s gone in a couple of decades from a bunch of volunteer students on a RAG trip shaking tins outside Marks and Spencer, to professional chuggers trying to get you signing up for monthly subscriptions and earning commissions for doing so.
    The other one to watch for is the lifestyle charity - a few (often one or two) founders on 6 figures, a token amount of charity work done, rest of the staff treated like slave Labour.

    I call them lifestyle charities, because they are all about the lifestyle of the people at the top.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,352
    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    Battlebus said:

    The LD dog didn't bark because someone shot it

    Oh dear, 50 years on and the old jokes are still getting an airing.

    I never understand why the Conservatives are so hostile to Ed Milliband's Net Zero policy. After all, they tried it in the mid 1970s.

    The aim was to reduce our dependence on imported oil and coal and what a success - between fuel rationing and power cuts, we cut our use of oil and coal substantially.

    Unfortunately, as per usual, the Conservatives didn't have the courage to see the policy through but it was a good try and especially courageous to bring it in during winter.
    There are some actions that are so iconic that they leash you for ever. Like student fees
    It’s my second favourite scandal after the SNP motor home scandal.
    We should do a PB top 10 political scandals. I guess we'd have to limit to post WW2 and UK only?

    Here's my attempt:

    1. Profumo (I would say that wouldn't I)
    2. The Jeremy Thorpe Affair
    3. Partygate
    4. The Parliamentary Expenses Scandal (2009)
    5. Cash for Questions
    6. Currygate (No not the Covid one - I mean John Major and Edwina Curry, of course - the most unlikely scandal ever.)
    7 John Stonehouse
    8. SNP camper van
    9. The Windrush Scandal
    10. Greensill Capital and David Cameron Lobbying (added especially for TSE)

    I exclude the Post Office Horizon scandal, utterly shocking though it was, because no politicians really got fingered for it.
    Wot - no T Dan Smith-Poulson-Reginal Maudling?
    The Poulson scandal was enormous. I was still in primary school when it broke, and still recall all the adults talking about it (the detail was largely mysterious to a kid).

    But while Maudling's resignation was front page news, and led to reform of Parliamentary rules, the vast majority of the corruption (and it was vast) involved local government and civil servants.

    My favourite bit around his eventual bankruptcy and disgrace:
    ..Whilst the Revenue were pressing Poulson for payment of this amount, he was himself presiding over debt hearings in Wakefield in his role as a Commissioner of Inland Revenue..
    Whenever I walk up Grey Street, and then proceed to Eldon Square, I always think of T Dan Smith.

    One of the most egregious destroyers of the nation's built heritage.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,002
    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Give money to a local homelessness charity along with this chap's particulars. (The classic embarrassed liberal solution.)
    Of course. That way the Good People working hard in administration at the homelessness charity will be able to afford plenty of Christmas presents for their children next week.
    There was a Private Eye joke where they said The Big Issue was to be renamed "Homeless and Gardenless".
    I used to do loads of charity volunteering as a youngster and a student. I now only donate to very small local charities, as the larger ones basically exist to fund themselves more than the cause. Any charity that sees fit to advertise on TV or national newspapers, for example, is too big.
    Another scandal at Oxfam.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgjp6y13q0o

    Many big charities are there just to sustain themselves. I wouldn’t give them a penny. Local charities for me and if I ever get round to doing voluntary work it will be for a small charity, or a Durham guide, or something like that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,865
    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Give money to a local homelessness charity along with this chap's particulars. (The classic embarrassed liberal solution.)
    Of course. That way the Good People working hard in administration at the homelessness charity will be able to afford plenty of Christmas presents for their children next week.
    There was a Private Eye joke where they said The Big Issue was to be renamed "Homeless and Gardenless".
    I used to do loads of charity volunteering as a youngster and a student. I now only donate to very small local charities, as the larger ones basically exist to fund themselves more than the cause. Any charity that sees fit to advertise on TV or national newspapers, for example, is too big.
    I'd be hardpressed to define when one becomes too big, but I think all organisations ultimately risk becoming more focused on themselves than their purported missions, and professionalisation of charity organisations as they expand only increases that risk. Focused on big numbers, broad mission statements, hob nobbing with the great and the good.

    The other risk is the classic switch to becoming primarily focused on lobbying for government funding to allow more lobbying of government, or confusing being a campaigning organisation to one which purports to inform the public/government/companies about the very subject you campaign to change, meaning there is a good chance you mistake what you want for what is, ie the Stonewall problem.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,002
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Give money to a local homelessness charity along with this chap's particulars. (The classic embarrassed liberal solution.)
    Of course. That way the Good People working hard in administration at the homelessness charity will be able to afford plenty of Christmas presents for their children next week.
    There was a Private Eye joke where they said The Big Issue was to be renamed "Homeless and Gardenless".
    I used to do loads of charity volunteering as a youngster and a student. I now only donate to very small local charities, as the larger ones basically exist to fund themselves more than the cause. Any charity that sees fit to advertise on TV or national newspapers, for example, is too big.
    Likewise anyone with bibs trying to recruit donations either in the street or door to door. That’s a company profiteering from the charity.
    Yes, that’s gone in a couple of decades from a bunch of volunteer students on a RAG trip shaking tins outside Marks and Spencer, to professional chuggers trying to get you signing up for monthly subscriptions and earning commissions for doing so.
    When I used to,work in London and get the train back at the weekend I used to be plagued every Friday by chuggers. Don’t really see it up here that much.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,301
    algarkirk said:

    Now we don't have a 2 party system any more, we can't go on using FPTP. Or does anyone think we are going back to a 2 party system,? Or that FPTP is a good system with lots of parties? The knocking on the door is STV.

    I doubt if it's true that we can't go on using FPTP. We are capable of continuing with anachronisms indefinitely. The greatest difficulties are these. Firstly those with power to change it have, obviously, just gained from FPTP because they form the government. We can note also that the LDs are not shouting loudly about the 2024 unfairness to Reform.

    Secondly, this is like the monarchy/House of Lords etc. It may be anachronistic, but with what do you replace it?

    My own tentative view is that very limited AV is the best. In GEs you can, if you wish, name a second choice which counts as a whole vote from when your first choice is eliminated.
    I don't have the numbers on this, but I'll try and remember to work it out when I have time.

    The number to watch is, I think, the percentage of voters who vote for their local MP. I think the disproportionate results at a national level are rather distant from most voters, who I suspect have mostly voted for their local MP. As British politics fragments that proportion will decline. At some point it may decline to a level where a large majority will feel unrepresented, because they didn't vote for their local MP.

    Where is the threshold? Two-thirds? Three-quarters? I don't know, but that's the direction Britain is heading, unless a new two-party dichotomy is re-established.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,002

    Cicero said:

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    Yes dear, why not take a little lie down?
    People who aren't woke are presumably sleepy and should lie down (and definitely not drive or operate heavy machinery).
    Cicero was up early. Forecasting the end of the Russian venture in Ukraine. Again.

    He may be right one day.
  • Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Give money to a local homelessness charity along with this chap's particulars. (The classic embarrassed liberal solution.)
    Of course. That way the Good People working hard in administration at the homelessness charity will be able to afford plenty of Christmas presents for their children next week.
    There was a Private Eye joke where they said The Big Issue was to be renamed "Homeless and Gardenless".
    I used to do loads of charity volunteering as a youngster and a student. I now only donate to very small local charities, as the larger ones basically exist to fund themselves more than the cause. Any charity that sees fit to advertise on TV or national newspapers, for example, is too big.
    One of the problems when you have what is effectively a Social Marxist goverment which taxes way beyond what many can afford is that very few people have sufficient free money to donate to good causes even ones they want to support. A future government based upon fairness rather than envy and self-serving would give a little bit extra personal allowance on Income Tax for those who volunteered by serving as a school governor or on the committee of the WI or a similar organisation. How can it be right that the financial rules are such that no-one with any qualification in accountancy dares serve as the treasurer of a small local charity ?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,865

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Perhaps if Reform does achieve a majority and then falls apart, the resulting sort-of coalition government will change the voting system and then call a fresh election.

    Altering the voting system without a mandate is a rather alarming precedent to set.
    It’s already been set.
    Holyrood - voting system set up by Lab and LDs, in a very, erm, *specific* way that I don't recall (admittedly it was a long time ago) being put in any manifesto.

    Edit: No specific mandate, except in suchlike as voting at Holyrood was seen as legitimising it, as it was agreed at and implemented by Westminster.
    A system of gerrymandering set up to keep Labour in power permanently, with the help of the Lib Dems, which was successful until Labour were so useless that they were deservedly kicked out.
    If Holyrood had been set up with FPTP would Scotland now be independent?
    (of course on the dubious premise of Westminster paying any attention to repeated SNP majorities)
    HYUFD would have driven his tank to Holyrood to prevent independence even if 100% of Scottish voters had voted SNP.
    Hope it isn't a British made tank, pretty sure it would break down or it would injure him before he made it halfway to the border.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,051
    Last day of a long weekend in the Caliphate (aka London). All perfectly civilised, not a phone theft or tube barrier jump to be seen. Pretty high security guard count on Greggs though, 2 in the tiny local one.

    The City Mapper app is a revelation, good idea, well executed and it works. If Khan has anything to do with it, he’s got my imaginary vote.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,002

    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    Battlebus said:

    The LD dog didn't bark because someone shot it

    Oh dear, 50 years on and the old jokes are still getting an airing.

    I never understand why the Conservatives are so hostile to Ed Milliband's Net Zero policy. After all, they tried it in the mid 1970s.

    The aim was to reduce our dependence on imported oil and coal and what a success - between fuel rationing and power cuts, we cut our use of oil and coal substantially.

    Unfortunately, as per usual, the Conservatives didn't have the courage to see the policy through but it was a good try and especially courageous to bring it in during winter.
    There are some actions that are so iconic that they leash you for ever. Like student fees
    It’s my second favourite scandal after the SNP motor home scandal.
    We should do a PB top 10 political scandals. I guess we'd have to limit to post WW2 and UK only?

    Here's my attempt:

    1. Profumo (I would say that wouldn't I)
    2. The Jeremy Thorpe Affair
    3. Partygate
    4. The Parliamentary Expenses Scandal (2009)
    5. Cash for Questions
    6. Currygate (No not the Covid one - I mean John Major and Edwina Curry, of course - the most unlikely scandal ever.)
    7 John Stonehouse
    8. SNP camper van
    9. The Windrush Scandal
    10. Greensill Capital and David Cameron Lobbying (added especially for TSE)

    I exclude the Post Office Horizon scandal, utterly shocking though it was, because no politicians really got fingered for it.
    Wot - no T Dan Smith-Poulson-Reginal Maudling?
    The Poulson scandal was enormous. I was still in primary school when it broke, and still recall all the adults talking about it (the detail was largely mysterious to a kid).

    But while Maudling's resignation was front page news, and led to reform of Parliamentary rules, the vast majority of the corruption (and it was vast) involved local government and civil servants.

    My favourite bit around his eventual bankruptcy and disgrace:
    ..Whilst the Revenue were pressing Poulson for payment of this amount, he was himself presiding over debt hearings in Wakefield in his role as a Commissioner of Inland Revenue..
    Whenever I walk up Grey Street, and then proceed to Eldon Square, I always think of T Dan Smith.

    One of the most egregious destroyers of the nation's built heritage.
    Yet some people still revere him round here.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,865

    Last day of a long weekend in the Caliphate (aka London). All perfectly civilised, not a phone theft or tube barrier jump to be seen. Pretty high security guard count on Greggs though, 2 in the tiny local one.

    The City Mapper app is a revelation, good idea, well executed and it works. If Khan has anything to do with it, he’s got my imaginary vote.

    GB News: Khan only elected with 'imaginary' votes from foreign mauraders - social media reports
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,474

    Last day of a long weekend in the Caliphate (aka London). All perfectly civilised, not a phone theft or tube barrier jump to be seen. Pretty high security guard count on Greggs though, 2 in the tiny local one.

    The City Mapper app is a revelation, good idea, well executed and it works. If Khan has anything to do with it, he’s got my imaginary vote.

    Were you that bloke in the tartan top hat and cagoule in the pedicab at Oxford Circus I saw, then?
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,352
    A rather moving reflection on Bondi Beach and what it means to be a Jew these days.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2025/12/this-chanukah-more-than-ever-i-will-try-to-be-resilient

    This point especially salient:

    "Because whatever you think of the war in Gaza, of Benjamin Netanyahu and the IDF and Hamas, this is not about Israel. This is about Jews. It was Australian Jews shot at on Bondi Beach on the first night of Chanukah, not Israelis. Just like it was British Jews stabbed and run over in the Manchester synagogue attack on Yom Kippur in October. Just like it is Jewish pupils threatened and harassed in their uniforms, Jewish schools doused in red paint, Jewish businesses vandalised."

    Some time ago, I found myself beside The Monument in the City. A crowd of primary schoolchildren were crowded at the entrance waiting to walk up. I noticed a watchful burly fellow standing near them. It turned out he was a security guard and the children were from a Jewish school. This was BEFORE the Hamas attack.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,865
    Taz said:

    Cicero said:

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    Yes dear, why not take a little lie down?
    People who aren't woke are presumably sleepy and should lie down (and definitely not drive or operate heavy machinery).
    Cicero was up early. Forecasting the end of the Russian venture in Ukraine. Again.

    He may be right one day.
    My bet is 2150.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,301

    Last day of a long weekend in the Caliphate (aka London). All perfectly civilised, not a phone theft or tube barrier jump to be seen. Pretty high security guard count on Greggs though, 2 in the tiny local one.

    The City Mapper app is a revelation, good idea, well executed and it works. If Khan has anything to do with it, he’s got my imaginary vote.

    I did my first ever rush hour drive into London this morning. Thought I ought to experience it at least once.

    Two and a half hours and it wasn't as bad as I'd feared - but then I've stayed south of the river.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,765

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Give money to a local homelessness charity along with this chap's particulars. (The classic embarrassed liberal solution.)
    Of course. That way the Good People working hard in administration at the homelessness charity will be able to afford plenty of Christmas presents for their children next week.
    There was a Private Eye joke where they said The Big Issue was to be renamed "Homeless and Gardenless".
    I used to do loads of charity volunteering as a youngster and a student. I now only donate to very small local charities, as the larger ones basically exist to fund themselves more than the cause. Any charity that sees fit to advertise on TV or national newspapers, for example, is too big.
    Likewise anyone with bibs trying to recruit donations either in the street or door to door. That’s a company profiteering from the charity.
    Yes, that’s gone in a couple of decades from a bunch of volunteer students on a RAG trip shaking tins outside Marks and Spencer, to professional chuggers trying to get you signing up for monthly subscriptions and earning commissions for doing so.
    The other one to watch for is the lifestyle charity - a few (often one or two) founders on 6 figures, a token amount of charity work done, rest of the staff treated like slave Labour.

    I call them lifestyle charities, because they are all about the lifestyle of the people at the top.
    That’s rather like the American ‘foundation’ nonprofit model, which appears to exist purely to find the lifestyle of those running it out of untaxed income.

    “Big NGO” is as much of a problem over there as “Big Tech” or Big Pharma”, just with added piety.

    The vast majority of the money US taxpayers give to “Africa” for various charitable endeavours, never leaves Washington DC.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,243
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Perhaps if Reform does achieve a majority and then falls apart, the resulting sort-of coalition government will change the voting system and then call a fresh election.

    Altering the voting system without a mandate is a rather alarming precedent to set.
    It’s already been set.
    Holyrood - voting system set up by Lab and LDs, in a very, erm, *specific* way that I don't recall (admittedly it was a long time ago) being put in any manifesto.

    Edit: No specific mandate, except in suchlike as voting at Holyrood was seen as legitimising it, as it was agreed at and implemented by Westminster.
    A system of gerrymandering set up to keep Labour in power permanently, with the help of the Lib Dems, which was successful until Labour were so useless that they were deservedly kicked out.
    If Holyrood had been set up with FPTP would Scotland now be independent?
    (of course on the dubious premise of Westminster paying any attention to repeated SNP majorities)
    HYUFD would have driven his tank to Holyrood to prevent independence even if 100% of Scottish voters had voted SNP.
    Hope it isn't a British made tank, pretty sure it would break down or it would injure him before he made it halfway to the border.
    It’s a Covenanter.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,051
    TOPPING said:

    Last day of a long weekend in the Caliphate (aka London). All perfectly civilised, not a phone theft or tube barrier jump to be seen. Pretty high security guard count on Greggs though, 2 in the tiny local one.

    The City Mapper app is a revelation, good idea, well executed and it works. If Khan has anything to do with it, he’s got my imaginary vote.

    Were you that bloke in the tartan top hat and cagoule in the pedicab at Oxford Circus I saw, then?
    If he was naked from the waist down, yes.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,474
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Give money to a local homelessness charity along with this chap's particulars. (The classic embarrassed liberal solution.)
    Of course. That way the Good People working hard in administration at the homelessness charity will be able to afford plenty of Christmas presents for their children next week.
    There was a Private Eye joke where they said The Big Issue was to be renamed "Homeless and Gardenless".
    I used to do loads of charity volunteering as a youngster and a student. I now only donate to very small local charities, as the larger ones basically exist to fund themselves more than the cause. Any charity that sees fit to advertise on TV or national newspapers, for example, is too big.
    Likewise anyone with bibs trying to recruit donations either in the street or door to door. That’s a company profiteering from the charity.
    Yes, that’s gone in a couple of decades from a bunch of volunteer students on a RAG trip shaking tins outside Marks and Spencer, to professional chuggers trying to get you signing up for monthly subscriptions and earning commissions for doing so.
    When I used to,work in London and get the train back at the weekend I used to be plagued every Friday by chuggers. Don’t really see it up here that much.
    Chuggers are an interesting phenomenon. Yes they get paid a commission but they also do raise money for charities. And if you say, oh well I won't do it through them I'll go home and donate directly, then you are only doing that because they (the chuggers) raised awareness of that charity.

    So although initially seemingly irritating they do provide a charitable service. All Most charities being rotten to the core, corrupt, exploitative and self-serving notwithstanding.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,474

    TOPPING said:

    Last day of a long weekend in the Caliphate (aka London). All perfectly civilised, not a phone theft or tube barrier jump to be seen. Pretty high security guard count on Greggs though, 2 in the tiny local one.

    The City Mapper app is a revelation, good idea, well executed and it works. If Khan has anything to do with it, he’s got my imaginary vote.

    Were you that bloke in the tartan top hat and cagoule in the pedicab at Oxford Circus I saw, then?
    If he was naked from the waist down, yes.
    Difficult to see because he was sitting down in the pedicab handing a roll of fifty pound notes to the driver.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,865

    A rather moving reflection on Bondi Beach and what it means to be a Jew these days.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2025/12/this-chanukah-more-than-ever-i-will-try-to-be-resilient

    This point especially salient:

    "Because whatever you think of the war in Gaza, of Benjamin Netanyahu and the IDF and Hamas, this is not about Israel. This is about Jews. It was Australian Jews shot at on Bondi Beach on the first night of Chanukah, not Israelis. Just like it was British Jews stabbed and run over in the Manchester synagogue attack on Yom Kippur in October. Just like it is Jewish pupils threatened and harassed in their uniforms, Jewish schools doused in red paint, Jewish businesses vandalised."

    Some time ago, I found myself beside The Monument in the City. A crowd of primary schoolchildren were crowded at the entrance waiting to walk up. I noticed a watchful burly fellow standing near them. It turned out he was a security guard and the children were from a Jewish school. This was BEFORE the Hamas attack.

    I think the risks to jewish people from the level of casual and not so casual antisemtism is still greatly underestimated. There are so few in this country, and I'd not feel very comfortable if I was one of them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,243
    kle4 said:

    Last day of a long weekend in the Caliphate (aka London). All perfectly civilised, not a phone theft or tube barrier jump to be seen. Pretty high security guard count on Greggs though, 2 in the tiny local one.

    The City Mapper app is a revelation, good idea, well executed and it works. If Khan has anything to do with it, he’s got my imaginary vote.

    GB News: Khan only elected with 'imaginary' votes from foreign mauraders - social media reports
    “marauders” ?

    Let’s get all the fun words out

    - freebooter
    - mosstrooper
    - rapscallions
    - reevers
    - tories
    - buccaneers (great aircraft)
    - brigands (terrible aircraft)
    - corsairs (great aircraft)
    - hoodlum (always makes me think of tuxedos and Thompson submachine guns)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,397

    Last day of a long weekend in the Caliphate (aka London). All perfectly civilised, not a phone theft or tube barrier jump to be seen. Pretty high security guard count on Greggs though, 2 in the tiny local one.

    The City Mapper app is a revelation, good idea, well executed and it works. If Khan has anything to do with it, he’s got my imaginary vote.

    I doubt Khan has anything to do with it - it's been around for years and has versions for many cities across the world. It used to be my go to navigation app but tbh I find Google Maps as good now. I switched to Google Maps because it had a 'step-free' wheelchair accessible filter for planning public transport routes (Apple Maps please note). I think City Mapper now has that too, so I should try it again maybe.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,662
    @viewcode, I believe you are writing a piece on sex/gender equality and discrimination. You might find this article interesting on the For Women Scotland case and the far reaching implications of the Supreme Court judgment.

    https://nilq.qub.ac.uk/index.php/nilq/article/view/1233/1030
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,865

    kle4 said:

    Last day of a long weekend in the Caliphate (aka London). All perfectly civilised, not a phone theft or tube barrier jump to be seen. Pretty high security guard count on Greggs though, 2 in the tiny local one.

    The City Mapper app is a revelation, good idea, well executed and it works. If Khan has anything to do with it, he’s got my imaginary vote.

    GB News: Khan only elected with 'imaginary' votes from foreign mauraders - social media reports
    “marauders” ?

    Let’s get all the fun words out

    - freebooter
    - mosstrooper
    - rapscallions
    - reevers
    - tories
    - buccaneers (great aircraft)
    - brigands (terrible aircraft)
    - corsairs (great aircraft)
    - hoodlum (always makes me think of tuxedos and Thompson submachine guns)
    Didn't know mosstrooper, that's a good one.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,243

    Last day of a long weekend in the Caliphate (aka London). All perfectly civilised, not a phone theft or tube barrier jump to be seen. Pretty high security guard count on Greggs though, 2 in the tiny local one.

    The City Mapper app is a revelation, good idea, well executed and it works. If Khan has anything to do with it, he’s got my imaginary vote.

    I doubt Khan has anything to do with it - it's been around for years and has versions for many cities across the world. It used to be my go to navigation app but tbh I find Google Maps as good now. I switched to Google Maps because it had a 'step-free' wheelchair accessible filter for planning public transport routes (Apple Maps please note). I think City Mapper now has that too, so I should try it again maybe.
    Citymapper started in 2011

    Khan was first elected in 2016
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,827
    The Liverpool Parade sentencing hearing is quite something. You do occasionally come across individuals like this when you're cycling about; sobering that this one actually acted out the fantasy.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,397

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Give money to a local homelessness charity along with this chap's particulars. (The classic embarrassed liberal solution.)
    Of course. That way the Good People working hard in administration at the homelessness charity will be able to afford plenty of Christmas presents for their children next week.
    There was a Private Eye joke where they said The Big Issue was to be renamed "Homeless and Gardenless".
    I used to do loads of charity volunteering as a youngster and a student. I now only donate to very small local charities, as the larger ones basically exist to fund themselves more than the cause. Any charity that sees fit to advertise on TV or national newspapers, for example, is too big.
    Likewise anyone with bibs trying to recruit donations either in the street or door to door. That’s a company profiteering from the charity.
    Yes, that’s gone in a couple of decades from a bunch of volunteer students on a RAG trip shaking tins outside Marks and Spencer, to professional chuggers trying to get you signing up for monthly subscriptions and earning commissions for doing so.
    The other one to watch for is the lifestyle charity - a few (often one or two) founders on 6 figures, a token amount of charity work done, rest of the staff treated like slave Labour.

    I call them lifestyle charities, because they are all about the lifestyle of the people at the top.
    Yep, a friend's partner was working for a donkey sanctuary charity, set up by a couple who were both retired police officers. The 3-4 staff were officially on minimum wage but working many 'free' hours too. My pal decided to check the 'charity' out and found out that both the founders were taking big salaries, charity provided cars etc. etc.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,051

    kle4 said:

    Last day of a long weekend in the Caliphate (aka London). All perfectly civilised, not a phone theft or tube barrier jump to be seen. Pretty high security guard count on Greggs though, 2 in the tiny local one.

    The City Mapper app is a revelation, good idea, well executed and it works. If Khan has anything to do with it, he’s got my imaginary vote.

    GB News: Khan only elected with 'imaginary' votes from foreign mauraders - social media reports
    “marauders” ?

    Let’s get all the fun words out

    - freebooter
    - mosstrooper
    - rapscallions
    - reevers
    - tories
    - buccaneers (great aircraft)
    - brigands (terrible aircraft)
    - corsairs (great aircraft)
    - hoodlum (always makes me think of tuxedos and Thompson submachine guns)
    Cateran for me.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 3,111
    edited December 15

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Battlebus said:

    The LD dog didn't bark because someone shot it

    Oh dear, 50 years on and the old jokes are still getting an airing.

    I never understand why the Conservatives are so hostile to Ed Milliband's Net Zero policy. After all, they tried it in the mid 1970s.

    The aim was to reduce our dependence on imported oil and coal and what a success - between fuel rationing and power cuts, we cut our use of oil and coal substantially.

    Unfortunately, as per usual, the Conservatives didn't have the courage to see the policy through but it was a good try and especially courageous to bring it in during winter.
    There are some actions that are so iconic that they leash you for ever. Like student fees
    It’s my second favourite scandal after the SNP motor home scandal.
    It’s a black comedy that would be rejected as too far-fetched, if a scriptwriter submitted it.
    Some days I cannot tell the difference between Justice Cantley’s summation and Peter Cook’s summation.
    Just been reading the rather edit: interesting account here - good to have a distant perspective as well as memories of reading Bron Waugh in the Eyes of the time.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Court-Number-One-Defined-Britain/dp/1473651611
    Looks like an fascinating book. I asked Gemini for a list of the tials it covered and the 1960 Lady Chatterley's Lover obscenity trial does not appear to be included which seems odd given the "Trials that Defined Modern Britain" tag line the book has.

    Or is Gemini telling a porky?
    Looking at the contents page in the Amazon online sample, it seems that trial is not included.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 3,111
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Last day of a long weekend in the Caliphate (aka London). All perfectly civilised, not a phone theft or tube barrier jump to be seen. Pretty high security guard count on Greggs though, 2 in the tiny local one.

    The City Mapper app is a revelation, good idea, well executed and it works. If Khan has anything to do with it, he’s got my imaginary vote.

    GB News: Khan only elected with 'imaginary' votes from foreign mauraders - social media reports
    “marauders” ?

    Let’s get all the fun words out

    - freebooter
    - mosstrooper
    - rapscallions
    - reevers
    - tories
    - buccaneers (great aircraft)
    - brigands (terrible aircraft)
    - corsairs (great aircraft)
    - hoodlum (always makes me think of tuxedos and Thompson submachine guns)
    Didn't know mosstrooper, that's a good one.
    There’s a well known (if you lived in the area) pub in Altrincham that goes by that name.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,068

    algarkirk said:

    Now we don't have a 2 party system any more, we can't go on using FPTP. Or does anyone think we are going back to a 2 party system,? Or that FPTP is a good system with lots of parties? The knocking on the door is STV.

    I doubt if it's true that we can't go on using FPTP. We are capable of continuing with anachronisms indefinitely. The greatest difficulties are these. Firstly those with power to change it have, obviously, just gained from FPTP because they form the government. We can note also that the LDs are not shouting loudly about the 2024 unfairness to Reform.

    Secondly, this is like the monarchy/House of Lords etc. It may be anachronistic, but with what do you replace it?

    My own tentative view is that very limited AV is the best. In GEs you can, if you wish, name a second choice which counts as a whole vote from when your first choice is eliminated.
    I don't have the numbers on this, but I'll try and remember to work it out when I have time.

    The number to watch is, I think, the percentage of voters who vote for their local MP. I think the disproportionate results at a national level are rather distant from most voters, who I suspect have mostly voted for their local MP. As British politics fragments that proportion will decline. At some point it may decline to a level where a large majority will feel unrepresented, because they didn't vote for their local MP.

    Where is the threshold? Two-thirds? Three-quarters? I don't know, but that's the direction Britain is heading, unless a new two-party dichotomy is re-established.
    I think the chances are that a two party system will be established or re-established. I recent fairly consistent feature of polling is that about half say they would vote for Reform/Tory, and about half would vote for Lab/LD/Green/Jezza/SNP/PC.

    While I think that this division is mostly illusory, with all governments from 1945 including the present and the next one being basically centrist social democrats with varying degrees of emphasis, rhetoric luck and competence, the illusion is a fairly fixed one.

    My intuition (guess) is that in the medium term Labour have 80%+ chance of being one of the two flagbearers, and Tories have a 45% chance and Reform a 45% chance of being the other one.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,001
    Rob Reiner and wife reportedly stabbed to death by son:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-news/rob-reiner-ldead-obituary-1235483876/

    That God Carl Reiner died before he could see that.
  • Phil said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Battlebus said:

    The LD dog didn't bark because someone shot it

    Oh dear, 50 years on and the old jokes are still getting an airing.

    I never understand why the Conservatives are so hostile to Ed Milliband's Net Zero policy. After all, they tried it in the mid 1970s.

    The aim was to reduce our dependence on imported oil and coal and what a success - between fuel rationing and power cuts, we cut our use of oil and coal substantially.

    Unfortunately, as per usual, the Conservatives didn't have the courage to see the policy through but it was a good try and especially courageous to bring it in during winter.
    There are some actions that are so iconic that they leash you for ever. Like student fees
    It’s my second favourite scandal after the SNP motor home scandal.
    It’s a black comedy that would be rejected as too far-fetched, if a scriptwriter submitted it.
    Some days I cannot tell the difference between Justice Cantley’s summation and Peter Cook’s summation.
    Just been reading the rather edit: interesting account here - good to have a distant perspective as well as memories of reading Bron Waugh in the Eyes of the time.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Court-Number-One-Defined-Britain/dp/1473651611
    Looks like an fascinating book. I asked Gemini for a list of the tials it covered and the 1960 Lady Chatterley's Lover obscenity trial does not appear to be included which seems odd given the "Trials that Defined Modern Britain" tag line the book has.

    Or is Gemini telling a porky?
    Looking at the contents page in the Amazon online sample, it seems that trial is not included.
    The Chatterley trial was covered in the author's previous book about Jeremy Hutchinson QC, so presumably that's why he didn't repeat it in this one.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,098
    TOPPING said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Have a chat with him if he doesn't look menacing, and find out what the issues really are?
    Big ask. Do you have a chat with every (maybe) homeless guy you see. Neither do I. Plenty are there out of "choice" and I say that advisedly, and many others are buffeted by "the system" going from pillar to post to bench because no one will take responsibility for them. So going to "chat" with him is, if I may say to one of the more cerebral PB posters, quite an asinine view. Unless Roger is willing then to take on the entire French social security system, which, as I said, is a big ask even for one undoubtedly as saintly as Roger.
    I think Nick P's advice is correct. Just because you can't reform an entire system is no reason not to offer individual help.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,274
    @JakeSherman

    Deal between House GOP moderates (Fitz, Kiggans, Valadao, Lawler) and House Republican leadership is breaking down.

    Disagreement over the language in the amendment to extend Obamacare premium subsidies.

    THE FOUR will go to rules Tues to offer amendment. If they're rejected, they will be free agents, could put JEFFRIES 3-YEAR ACA extension over the finish line

    https://x.com/JakeSherman/status/2000531747105055175?s=20
  • eekeek Posts: 32,157
    Phil said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Battlebus said:

    The LD dog didn't bark because someone shot it

    Oh dear, 50 years on and the old jokes are still getting an airing.

    I never understand why the Conservatives are so hostile to Ed Milliband's Net Zero policy. After all, they tried it in the mid 1970s.

    The aim was to reduce our dependence on imported oil and coal and what a success - between fuel rationing and power cuts, we cut our use of oil and coal substantially.

    Unfortunately, as per usual, the Conservatives didn't have the courage to see the policy through but it was a good try and especially courageous to bring it in during winter.
    There are some actions that are so iconic that they leash you for ever. Like student fees
    It’s my second favourite scandal after the SNP motor home scandal.
    It’s a black comedy that would be rejected as too far-fetched, if a scriptwriter submitted it.
    Some days I cannot tell the difference between Justice Cantley’s summation and Peter Cook’s summation.
    Just been reading the rather edit: interesting account here - good to have a distant perspective as well as memories of reading Bron Waugh in the Eyes of the time.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Court-Number-One-Defined-Britain/dp/1473651611
    Looks like an fascinating book. I asked Gemini for a list of the tials it covered and the 1960 Lady Chatterley's Lover obscenity trial does not appear to be included which seems odd given the "Trials that Defined Modern Britain" tag line the book has.

    Or is Gemini telling a porky?
    Looking at the contents page in the Amazon online sample, it seems that trial is not included.
    Why do people ask LLM AI systems to check facts - that simply not something an LLM model can do - it works on statistical probability rather than reality.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,865
    Scott_xP said:

    @JakeSherman

    Deal between House GOP moderates (Fitz, Kiggans, Valadao, Lawler) and House Republican leadership is breaking down.

    Disagreement over the language in the amendment to extend Obamacare premium subsidies.

    THE FOUR will go to rules Tues to offer amendment. If they're rejected, they will be free agents, could put JEFFRIES 3-YEAR ACA extension over the finish line

    https://x.com/JakeSherman/status/2000531747105055175?s=20

    There are House GOP moderates?!
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,582
    kle4 said:

    A rather moving reflection on Bondi Beach and what it means to be a Jew these days.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2025/12/this-chanukah-more-than-ever-i-will-try-to-be-resilient

    This point especially salient:

    "Because whatever you think of the war in Gaza, of Benjamin Netanyahu and the IDF and Hamas, this is not about Israel. This is about Jews. It was Australian Jews shot at on Bondi Beach on the first night of Chanukah, not Israelis. Just like it was British Jews stabbed and run over in the Manchester synagogue attack on Yom Kippur in October. Just like it is Jewish pupils threatened and harassed in their uniforms, Jewish schools doused in red paint, Jewish businesses vandalised."

    Some time ago, I found myself beside The Monument in the City. A crowd of primary schoolchildren were crowded at the entrance waiting to walk up. I noticed a watchful burly fellow standing near them. It turned out he was a security guard and the children were from a Jewish school. This was BEFORE the Hamas attack.

    I think the risks to jewish people from the level of casual and not so casual antisemitism is still greatly underestimated. There are so few in this country, and I'd not feel very comfortable if I was one of them.
    I think there have always been some prejudiced antisemitic people in this country, and elsewhere.
    But it has become increasingly unacceptable in society for them to openly display their antisemitism.
    Unfortunately, the actions of Netanyahu and the IDF, and also the pro Palestinian movement, have provided cover for the antisemites to come out into the open. It's bad.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 47,046
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Perhaps if Reform does achieve a majority and then falls apart, the resulting sort-of coalition government will change the voting system and then call a fresh election.

    Altering the voting system without a mandate is a rather alarming precedent to set.
    It’s already been set.
    Holyrood - voting system set up by Lab and LDs, in a very, erm, *specific* way that I don't recall (admittedly it was a long time ago) being put in any manifesto.

    Edit: No specific mandate, except in suchlike as voting at Holyrood was seen as legitimising it, as it was agreed at and implemented by Westminster.
    In Wales, Labour have just introduced not merely a new voting system but one that's entirely different from the system they had previously promised. (And much worse.)
    The new system in Wales ironically may boost Reform and enable it to pip Plaid for first as it removes the constituency vote and is just effectively pure PR, so there won't be any tactical voting against Reform.

    Though a Plaid and Labour government is almost certain to be the end result anyway
    Was it LLafur in Wales, or Labour in UKG, that changed the system? I ask as IIRC the Holyrood voting system is not devolved from London (but memory is shaky here).
    Llafur
    Thank you!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,467

    kle4 said:

    Last day of a long weekend in the Caliphate (aka London). All perfectly civilised, not a phone theft or tube barrier jump to be seen. Pretty high security guard count on Greggs though, 2 in the tiny local one.

    The City Mapper app is a revelation, good idea, well executed and it works. If Khan has anything to do with it, he’s got my imaginary vote.

    GB News: Khan only elected with 'imaginary' votes from foreign mauraders - social media reports
    “marauders” ?

    Let’s get all the fun words out

    - freebooter
    - mosstrooper
    - rapscallions
    - reevers
    - tories
    - buccaneers (great aircraft)
    - brigands (terrible aircraft)
    - corsairs (great aircraft)
    - hoodlum (always makes me think of tuxedos and Thompson submachine guns)
    And me, the Ka-226 Russian helicopter.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,002
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Cicero said:

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    Yes dear, why not take a little lie down?
    People who aren't woke are presumably sleepy and should lie down (and definitely not drive or operate heavy machinery).
    Cicero was up early. Forecasting the end of the Russian venture in Ukraine. Again.

    He may be right one day.
    My bet is 2150.
    Like people calling stock market crashes. They’ll be right one day.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 5,015
    FF43 said:

    @viewcode, I believe you are writing a piece on sex/gender equality and discrimination. You might find this article interesting on the For Women Scotland case and the far reaching implications of the Supreme Court judgment.

    https://nilq.qub.ac.uk/index.php/nilq/article/view/1233/1030

    Thanks for sharing that.

    That is a very useful analysis and closely mirrors and expands on some of the arguments I submitted to Viewcode, albeit from a more legal perspective (I've tried to focus on outcomes). Viewcode will be pleased to know I'm not going to rewrite my submission at this late date, but I may add it as a single line in my literature review section, as it helps validate some of my later reasoning.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,002
    Phil said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Last day of a long weekend in the Caliphate (aka London). All perfectly civilised, not a phone theft or tube barrier jump to be seen. Pretty high security guard count on Greggs though, 2 in the tiny local one.

    The City Mapper app is a revelation, good idea, well executed and it works. If Khan has anything to do with it, he’s got my imaginary vote.

    GB News: Khan only elected with 'imaginary' votes from foreign mauraders - social media reports
    “marauders” ?

    Let’s get all the fun words out

    - freebooter
    - mosstrooper
    - rapscallions
    - reevers
    - tories
    - buccaneers (great aircraft)
    - brigands (terrible aircraft)
    - corsairs (great aircraft)
    - hoodlum (always makes me think of tuxedos and Thompson submachine guns)
    Didn't know mosstrooper, that's a good one.
    There’s a well known (if you lived in the area) pub in Altrincham that goes by that name.
    Does it have a flat roof ?

    Can’t beat a flat roof pub. There’s one about half a mile from me.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,098
    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Cicero said:

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    Yes dear, why not take a little lie down?
    People who aren't woke are presumably sleepy and should lie down (and definitely not drive or operate heavy machinery).
    Cicero was up early. Forecasting the end of the Russian venture in Ukraine. Again.

    He may be right one day.
    My bet is 2150.
    Like people calling stock market crashes. They’ll be right one day.
    Like the people saying that Soviet Communism was unsustainable. The date of the collapse is the known unknown.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,832

    Last day of a long weekend in the Caliphate (aka London). All perfectly civilised, not a phone theft or tube barrier jump to be seen. Pretty high security guard count on Greggs though, 2 in the tiny local one.

    The City Mapper app is a revelation, good idea, well executed and it works. If Khan has anything to do with it, he’s got my imaginary vote.

    I bet I see fare dodging the next time I visit London without making a special effort to see it. I'll keep everyone posted.
  • eek said:

    Phil said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Battlebus said:

    The LD dog didn't bark because someone shot it

    Oh dear, 50 years on and the old jokes are still getting an airing.

    I never understand why the Conservatives are so hostile to Ed Milliband's Net Zero policy. After all, they tried it in the mid 1970s.

    The aim was to reduce our dependence on imported oil and coal and what a success - between fuel rationing and power cuts, we cut our use of oil and coal substantially.

    Unfortunately, as per usual, the Conservatives didn't have the courage to see the policy through but it was a good try and especially courageous to bring it in during winter.
    There are some actions that are so iconic that they leash you for ever. Like student fees
    It’s my second favourite scandal after the SNP motor home scandal.
    It’s a black comedy that would be rejected as too far-fetched, if a scriptwriter submitted it.
    Some days I cannot tell the difference between Justice Cantley’s summation and Peter Cook’s summation.
    Just been reading the rather edit: interesting account here - good to have a distant perspective as well as memories of reading Bron Waugh in the Eyes of the time.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Court-Number-One-Defined-Britain/dp/1473651611
    Looks like an fascinating book. I asked Gemini for a list of the tials it covered and the 1960 Lady Chatterley's Lover obscenity trial does not appear to be included which seems odd given the "Trials that Defined Modern Britain" tag line the book has.

    Or is Gemini telling a porky?
    Looking at the contents page in the Amazon online sample, it seems that trial is not included.
    Why do people ask LLM AI systems to check facts - that simply not something an LLM model can do - it works on statistical probability rather than reality.
    Although these systems are sometimes confidently wrong, that doesn't mean it's ludicrous to ask them a factual question. You just need to accept that sometimes the answer will be wrong (as indeed Ben did, asking whether Gemini's response was correct). Just as, if you ask a factual question to me, I might occasionally answer confidently but incorrectly.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,127
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Last day of a long weekend in the Caliphate (aka London). All perfectly civilised, not a phone theft or tube barrier jump to be seen. Pretty high security guard count on Greggs though, 2 in the tiny local one.

    The City Mapper app is a revelation, good idea, well executed and it works. If Khan has anything to do with it, he’s got my imaginary vote.

    Were you that bloke in the tartan top hat and cagoule in the pedicab at Oxford Circus I saw, then?
    If he was naked from the waist down, yes.
    Difficult to see because he was sitting down in the pedicab handing a roll of fifty pound notes to the driver.
    Tipping in London is getting out of hand
  • A rather moving reflection on Bondi Beach and what it means to be a Jew these days.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2025/12/this-chanukah-more-than-ever-i-will-try-to-be-resilient

    This point especially salient:

    "Because whatever you think of the war in Gaza, of Benjamin Netanyahu and the IDF and Hamas, this is not about Israel. This is about Jews. It was Australian Jews shot at on Bondi Beach on the first night of Chanukah, not Israelis. Just like it was British Jews stabbed and run over in the Manchester synagogue attack on Yom Kippur in October. Just like it is Jewish pupils threatened and harassed in their uniforms, Jewish schools doused in red paint, Jewish businesses vandalised."

    Some time ago, I found myself beside The Monument in the City. A crowd of primary schoolchildren were crowded at the entrance waiting to walk up. I noticed a watchful burly fellow standing near them. It turned out he was a security guard and the children were from a Jewish school. This was BEFORE the Hamas attack.

    Have you ever seen a primary school trip not escorted by teachers and/or parents, some of whom might be burly?

    Yesterday's terrorist attack in Sydney and the earlier one in Manchester were of course outrageous but neither was mentioned as we marked Christmas and the first day of Chanukah among friends. I find the idea that British Jews are cowering in fear to be alien. I understand that sympathy or concern is well-intentioned but there really is no Jewish hive mind. Similarly, students here will carry on after the weekend's mass shooting at an American university.
  • OT - It is also perfectly possibly that the next GE will see a party clearly win the most votes and yet not win any sort of a majority - in fact not win even a plurality. FPTP doesn't work well in a three-party system and is a lottery in a five (or should that be six or even six and a half) party system.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,002
    Give the headline writer a rise.

    ‘ Former Prince Andrew is butt of the year’s best Christmas cracker joke’


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/dec/15/former-prince-andrew-is-butt-of-the-years-best-christmas-cracker-joke
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,002
    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Cicero said:

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    Yes dear, why not take a little lie down?
    People who aren't woke are presumably sleepy and should lie down (and definitely not drive or operate heavy machinery).
    Cicero was up early. Forecasting the end of the Russian venture in Ukraine. Again.

    He may be right one day.
    My bet is 2150.
    Like people calling stock market crashes. They’ll be right one day.
    Like the people saying that Soviet Communism was unsustainable. The date of the collapse is the known unknown.
    Yet, unlike Soviet Communism, the market (rather like Alan Partridge) bounces back.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,865

    A rather moving reflection on Bondi Beach and what it means to be a Jew these days.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2025/12/this-chanukah-more-than-ever-i-will-try-to-be-resilient

    This point especially salient:

    "Because whatever you think of the war in Gaza, of Benjamin Netanyahu and the IDF and Hamas, this is not about Israel. This is about Jews. It was Australian Jews shot at on Bondi Beach on the first night of Chanukah, not Israelis. Just like it was British Jews stabbed and run over in the Manchester synagogue attack on Yom Kippur in October. Just like it is Jewish pupils threatened and harassed in their uniforms, Jewish schools doused in red paint, Jewish businesses vandalised."

    Some time ago, I found myself beside The Monument in the City. A crowd of primary schoolchildren were crowded at the entrance waiting to walk up. I noticed a watchful burly fellow standing near them. It turned out he was a security guard and the children were from a Jewish school. This was BEFORE the Hamas attack.

    Have you ever seen a primary school trip not escorted by teachers and/or parents, some of whom might be burly?

    .
    I've never seen one with an actual security guard. My primary school never had guards, nor the local churches.

    I doubt most are cowering in fear every day, but that's not the same thing it not being a worrying issue when additional measures are very often necessary when they really really shouldn't need to be.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,544

    OT - It is also perfectly possibly that the next GE will see a party clearly win the most votes and yet not win any sort of a majority - in fact not win even a plurality. FPTP doesn't work well in a three-party system and is a lottery in a five (or should that be six or even six and a half) party system.

    It’s said that every FPTP election somehow magically delivers the conclusion the voters want to achieve. I have some sympathy with that view based on recent history. Perhaps the conclusion the voters want to achieve in 2029 will be electoral reform.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,352

    A rather moving reflection on Bondi Beach and what it means to be a Jew these days.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2025/12/this-chanukah-more-than-ever-i-will-try-to-be-resilient

    This point especially salient:

    "Because whatever you think of the war in Gaza, of Benjamin Netanyahu and the IDF and Hamas, this is not about Israel. This is about Jews. It was Australian Jews shot at on Bondi Beach on the first night of Chanukah, not Israelis. Just like it was British Jews stabbed and run over in the Manchester synagogue attack on Yom Kippur in October. Just like it is Jewish pupils threatened and harassed in their uniforms, Jewish schools doused in red paint, Jewish businesses vandalised."

    Some time ago, I found myself beside The Monument in the City. A crowd of primary schoolchildren were crowded at the entrance waiting to walk up. I noticed a watchful burly fellow standing near them. It turned out he was a security guard and the children were from a Jewish school. This was BEFORE the Hamas attack.

    Have you ever seen a primary school trip not escorted by teachers and/or parents, some of whom might be burly?

    Yesterday's terrorist attack in Sydney and the earlier one in Manchester were of course outrageous but neither was mentioned as we marked Christmas and the first day of Chanukah among friends. I find the idea that British Jews are cowering in fear to be alien. I understand that sympathy or concern is well-intentioned but there really is no Jewish hive mind. Similarly, students here will carry on after the weekend's mass shooting at an American university.
    He wasn't a teacher or a parent. He was a security guard. Paid for. A slight difference, no? And maybe symptomatic of something, no? Like fear and insecurity, no?

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,662
    Taz said:

    Cicero said:

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    Lib Dems are ultra woke. Noone should vote for them.

    Yes dear, why not take a little lie down?
    People who aren't woke are presumably sleepy and should lie down (and definitely not drive or operate heavy machinery).
    Cicero was up early. Forecasting the end of the Russian venture in Ukraine. Again.

    He may be right one day.
    If @Cicero will allow me to quote the previous thread, because unlike you he actually is right, or at least accurate.
    Cicero said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Ukrainian air strikes are certainly escalating. But so are Russian ones. Given Trump cut off all US aid to Ukraine it could certainly be worse but I'm not optimistic about things right now.

    Trump is trying to force Zelensky into an awful deal because he wants to make money from business with Russia. Russia is happy to keep fighting, because Putin believes his army is winning, so is sticking to its maximalist war aims. The Europeans are running around like headless chickens with no direction or cohesion.

    It's a bad situation.

    Ukrainian successes with long-range strikes, or the counterattack around Kupiansk, are welcome, but they're not enough to turn the tide. And they're kinda bittersweet because they show what would be possible if Europe found the resolve and sense of purpose to fully back Ukraine.

    Instead we're choosing to do enough to keep Ukraine fighting, but not enough to help them win. It's such a big mistake.
    It clearly demonstrates why the EU can’t be the core of European defence structures. NATO and JEF have to be the way forward (with or without the US)
    It’s been blindingly obvious since 2023 (but the signs were there in autumn 2022) that almost no one in the Western alliance wants Ukraine to “win”. Or rather they are too frightened of what might follow a decisive Russian loss - likely some
    combo of wounded animal behaviour by Putin, disruption to global commodities markets and stray nukes ending up with regional Russian war lords.

    This grates with me, but all of us have to accept that we have not seen the intelligence the decision makers have. It is lazy in the extreme to think the current US government’s main goal is to build a hotel in Moscow. There has been a remarkably consistent common position among the core counties even after domestic political transitions. Is what it is.

    Given this seemingly immovable reality, the best thing for the Ukrainians really does now feel like getting done whatever deal will get the fighting to finish as soon as possible, followed by an influx of weapons and funding.
    This is bollocks. Europe very much wants Ukraine to win, but they don't want to engage Russia directly and it's difficult for Ukraine to win. If you can't see clear blue water between the position of nearly every European country (barring Hungary etc.) and Trump's administration, then you fooling yourself.
    How are those Taurus missiles going? How many barrels of Urals have been run in European refineries since Feb 2022?
    That doesn't prove your overly simplistic claim. European governments have had to juggle the costs of weaning themselves off Russian fossil fuels and the opposition of much of their electorates to paying more in tax, and the risks of Russia resorting to nuclear weapons, with a desire for Ukrainian victory and Putin's fall. Life is much more complicated than you usually perceive.
    Which sounds like they “they are too frightened of what might follow a decisive Russian loss”
    It's perfectly rational to be concerned about what might follow a decisive Russian loss, but, no, I don't think most European countries are "too frightened" of that. Europe is giving a huge amount of support to Ukraine. They wouldn't be doing that if they were "too frightened".
    Ukraine was pushed into a calamitous counter offensive in 2023, trying to cross deep mine fields that had a density of 5/m2 but without air support or long range missiles. It was no wonder that the engineers got picked off by Russian helicopters, meaning it quickly became a disaster.

    Throughout, the timing and volume of support has been carefully calibrated to slowly boil the frog, without risking the sudden collapse of Russia’s army. Tanks, aviation, missiles…

    The instructive moment was autumn 2022, when tens of thousands of stranded Russian soldiers were permitted to flee the right bank of the Dnieper. We found out some time afterwards (chapeau Bob Woodward) that the likelihood of “imminent nuclear exchange” at this time was assessed at 50% by US intelligence, based upon “exquisite intelligence”.

    It is total fantasy to think there is any residual appetite by those that matter, for Russia to be chased out of Crimea, or every inch of the Donbas for that matter. Even the bastion of support the uk, prioritised first of all national insurance cuts and more recently public sector pay rises, over increased military spending to support Ukraine.
    You’re the one living in a fantasy land. If the UK didn’t want to support Ukraine, the government would stop supporting Ukraine and spend that money elsewhere. But governments are swayed by domestic concerns. The result is a compromise. That’s not some careful calibration to “slowly boil the frog”. It’s just a messy compromise.
    Also a lot of wishful thinking that Russia will choose to end the war without being forced to by losing it.
    Russia already failed in its war objectives three years ago. The reality is that Putin has not yet been forced to accept the consequences of that failure. The same nuclear rhetoric offered by Medvedev officially and the Russian media more generally has made the West ultra cautious about confronting Russia with its failure. That failure is nevertheless real and as thousands of men are killed and wounded, as trillions of Roubles of equipment are destroyed, not to be replaced, as the economic and financial costs grow to the point of economic meltdown, the consequences of this disaster grow more urgent every day.
    Trump's alienation of Western allies incidentally will cost the United States massively more than any deal they can make with the corrupt and broken down regime in the Kremlin. I guess at 73 Putin looks youthful to the 79 year old senile crook sitting on the wreckage of the East wing.
    Things are stirring in Moscow that will ultimately bring the war to a conclusion- which will spend Trump's axis of authoritarianism. The US preferred a G5 with China, India, Russia and Japan, apparently failing to notice that Russia has an economy now, on some measures, only a fifth the size of Germany's and not much more versus the UK or France.
    Trump is not merely a knave, he is a fool.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,672

    Last day of a long weekend in the Caliphate (aka London). All perfectly civilised, not a phone theft or tube barrier jump to be seen. Pretty high security guard count on Greggs though, 2 in the tiny local one.

    The City Mapper app is a revelation, good idea, well executed and it works. If Khan has anything to do with it, he’s got my imaginary vote.

    I doubt Khan has anything to do with it - it's been around for years and has versions for many cities across the world. It used to be my go to navigation app but tbh I find Google Maps as good now. I switched to Google Maps because it had a 'step-free' wheelchair accessible filter for planning public transport routes (Apple Maps please note). I think City Mapper now has that too, so I should try it again maybe.
    Yes it long predates Khan, but is an example of a British application that I find far superior to that of the US giants, in this case specifically for public transport options. I still find Google maps poor in comparison, often favouring obviously slower routes.

    Like all good British tech companies, it's since been sold off to some Americans.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,561

    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Give money to a local homelessness charity along with this chap's particulars. (The classic embarrassed liberal solution.)
    Of course. That way the Good People working hard in administration at the homelessness charity will be able to afford plenty of Christmas presents for their children next week.
    There was a Private Eye joke where they said The Big Issue was to be renamed "Homeless and Gardenless".
    I used to do loads of charity volunteering as a youngster and a student. I now only donate to very small local charities, as the larger ones basically exist to fund themselves more than the cause. Any charity that sees fit to advertise on TV or national newspapers, for example, is too big.
    One of the problems when you have what is effectively a Social Marxist goverment which taxes way beyond what many can afford is that very few people have sufficient free money to donate to good causes even ones they want to support. A future government based upon fairness rather than envy and self-serving would give a little bit extra personal allowance on Income Tax for those who volunteered by serving as a school governor or on the committee of the WI or a similar organisation. How can it be right that the financial rules are such that no-one with any qualification in accountancy dares serve as the treasurer of a small local charity ?
    £15.4 billion was given to charity in the UK in 2024, up from £13.9 billion the year before, which rather suggests that your analysis of a “Social Marxist government” taxing us all to the point that no-one can afford to give to charity is nonsense.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,068
    Eabhal said:

    The Liverpool Parade sentencing hearing is quite something. You do occasionally come across individuals like this when you're cycling about; sobering that this one actually acted out the fantasy.

    Unless he has some sort of form for similar stuff, this is a sentencing nightmare. I find it hard to guess what he will get. At the moment I am estimating maybe 15-20 years, or life with a minimum term of about 10-12. But I can't really think of a parallel case. On some reckonings this would be worth a whole life tariff. On other reckonings this is an out of character inexplicable episode which should get a lot less.

    I should think whatever happens one or other side - perhaps both - will appeal it. It could do with a Court of Appeal consideration.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,352
    HYUFD said:

    @Ratters

    'The Tories, meanwhile, may find more of their natural supporters returning home as memories of their last stint in office fade. Think of it as their radioactive legacy having a half life. The more time passes, the less of it remains.'

    That's quite a good way of putting it.

    Their fourteen years was a pretty mixed bag. If you took out the Johnson/Truss period, it wasn't too bad. As you indicate, the memory should fade with time. I

    It's not my team, but if it were I'd stick with Badenoch and keep Jenrick on the subs bench.

    Jenrick is biding his time. If Badenoch stays then if Reform overtake the Tories on seats at the next GE he will likely join Farage, maybe even in government if Farage has become PM. If Reform don't overtake the Tories he will aim to be Tory leader after the next GE assuming a Tory defeat and reunite the populist right in a post Farage era, Farage likely by then having resigned as Reform leader
    Yep.

    Jenners is positioning himself as the "Unite the Right" candidate after the next General Election which, I think, is highly likely to deliver a Labour minority government supported by LibDems and/or Greens. This result will be blamed on a divided right.

    If there is a result like that, Nige and Kemi will both likely stand down as each is unacceptable to large parts of the other party, preventing a merger. Cleverly, who is RJs main Tory rival, would not be able to preside over a merger with Reform.

    I very much doubt that Jenrick will challenge Kemi in the meantime. He's young - has plenty of time - and if Kemi is defenestrated he may lose to Cleverly.
  • kle4 said:

    A rather moving reflection on Bondi Beach and what it means to be a Jew these days.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2025/12/this-chanukah-more-than-ever-i-will-try-to-be-resilient

    This point especially salient:

    "Because whatever you think of the war in Gaza, of Benjamin Netanyahu and the IDF and Hamas, this is not about Israel. This is about Jews. It was Australian Jews shot at on Bondi Beach on the first night of Chanukah, not Israelis. Just like it was British Jews stabbed and run over in the Manchester synagogue attack on Yom Kippur in October. Just like it is Jewish pupils threatened and harassed in their uniforms, Jewish schools doused in red paint, Jewish businesses vandalised."

    Some time ago, I found myself beside The Monument in the City. A crowd of primary schoolchildren were crowded at the entrance waiting to walk up. I noticed a watchful burly fellow standing near them. It turned out he was a security guard and the children were from a Jewish school. This was BEFORE the Hamas attack.

    Have you ever seen a primary school trip not escorted by teachers and/or parents, some of whom might be burly?

    .
    I've never seen one with an actual security guard. My primary school never had guards, nor the local churches.

    I doubt most are cowering in fear every day, but that's not the same thing it not being a worrying issue when additional measures are very often necessary when they really really shouldn't need to be.
    I used to work down the road from a building with two security guards, seven feet tall and six feet wide, in evening dress with earpieces. They were minding a church.

    At least one school near here has, or had, security guards on the entrance.

    Welcome to modern Britain.
  • Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    A rather moving reflection on Bondi Beach and what it means to be a Jew these days.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2025/12/this-chanukah-more-than-ever-i-will-try-to-be-resilient

    This point especially salient:

    "Because whatever you think of the war in Gaza, of Benjamin Netanyahu and the IDF and Hamas, this is not about Israel. This is about Jews. It was Australian Jews shot at on Bondi Beach on the first night of Chanukah, not Israelis. Just like it was British Jews stabbed and run over in the Manchester synagogue attack on Yom Kippur in October. Just like it is Jewish pupils threatened and harassed in their uniforms, Jewish schools doused in red paint, Jewish businesses vandalised."

    Some time ago, I found myself beside The Monument in the City. A crowd of primary schoolchildren were crowded at the entrance waiting to walk up. I noticed a watchful burly fellow standing near them. It turned out he was a security guard and the children were from a Jewish school. This was BEFORE the Hamas attack.

    I think the risks to jewish people from the level of casual and not so casual antisemitism is still greatly underestimated. There are so few in this country, and I'd not feel very comfortable if I was one of them.
    I think there have always been some prejudiced antisemitic people in this country, and elsewhere.
    But it has become increasingly unacceptable in society for them to openly display their antisemitism.
    Unfortunately, the actions of Netanyahu and the IDF, and also the pro Palestinian movement, have provided cover for the antisemites to come out into the open. It's bad.
    There are two dogs in the fight and neither cares which one you choose, as long as you choose one of them. If you choose a dog, that one is happy because of your support and the other dog is happy because it enhances its victim status.

    What neither dog wants is for you to ignore both.
  • Doctors reject government offer and strikes will go ahead

    Time to bring in Badenoch promise to outlaw strikes by doctors, same as police
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,561

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Give money to a local homelessness charity along with this chap's particulars. (The classic embarrassed liberal solution.)
    Of course. That way the Good People working hard in administration at the homelessness charity will be able to afford plenty of Christmas presents for their children next week.
    There was a Private Eye joke where they said The Big Issue was to be renamed "Homeless and Gardenless".
    I used to do loads of charity volunteering as a youngster and a student. I now only donate to very small local charities, as the larger ones basically exist to fund themselves more than the cause. Any charity that sees fit to advertise on TV or national newspapers, for example, is too big.
    Likewise anyone with bibs trying to recruit donations either in the street or door to door. That’s a company profiteering from the charity.
    Yes, that’s gone in a couple of decades from a bunch of volunteer students on a RAG trip shaking tins outside Marks and Spencer, to professional chuggers trying to get you signing up for monthly subscriptions and earning commissions for doing so.
    The other one to watch for is the lifestyle charity - a few (often one or two) founders on 6 figures, a token amount of charity work done, rest of the staff treated like slave Labour.

    I call them lifestyle charities, because they are all about the lifestyle of the people at the top.
    Yep, a friend's partner was working for a donkey sanctuary charity, set up by a couple who were both retired police officers. The 3-4 staff were officially on minimum wage but working many 'free' hours too. My pal decided to check the 'charity' out and found out that both the founders were taking big salaries, charity provided cars etc. etc.
    A lot of cynicism today on PB! Most charities most of the time are full of people doing their best to make the world a better place. There are some exceptions (e.g., the Donald J Trump Foundation, dissolved by court order in 2018), of course. Small charities are often well-meaning but disorganised. Big charities can be much more efficient, but suffer the same challenges as all big organisations. But don’t let cynicism blind you to all the good many, many charities do, from the Carter Centre’s work to eradicate Guinea worm, to the local hospice helping one person at a time.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,467

    eek said:

    Phil said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Battlebus said:

    The LD dog didn't bark because someone shot it

    Oh dear, 50 years on and the old jokes are still getting an airing.

    I never understand why the Conservatives are so hostile to Ed Milliband's Net Zero policy. After all, they tried it in the mid 1970s.

    The aim was to reduce our dependence on imported oil and coal and what a success - between fuel rationing and power cuts, we cut our use of oil and coal substantially.

    Unfortunately, as per usual, the Conservatives didn't have the courage to see the policy through but it was a good try and especially courageous to bring it in during winter.
    There are some actions that are so iconic that they leash you for ever. Like student fees
    It’s my second favourite scandal after the SNP motor home scandal.
    It’s a black comedy that would be rejected as too far-fetched, if a scriptwriter submitted it.
    Some days I cannot tell the difference between Justice Cantley’s summation and Peter Cook’s summation.
    Just been reading the rather edit: interesting account here - good to have a distant perspective as well as memories of reading Bron Waugh in the Eyes of the time.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Court-Number-One-Defined-Britain/dp/1473651611
    Looks like an fascinating book. I asked Gemini for a list of the tials it covered and the 1960 Lady Chatterley's Lover obscenity trial does not appear to be included which seems odd given the "Trials that Defined Modern Britain" tag line the book has.

    Or is Gemini telling a porky?
    Looking at the contents page in the Amazon online sample, it seems that trial is not included.
    Why do people ask LLM AI systems to check facts - that simply not something an LLM model can do - it works on statistical probability rather than reality.
    Although these systems are sometimes confidently wrong, that doesn't mean it's ludicrous to ask them a factual question. You just need to accept that sometimes the answer will be wrong (as indeed Ben did, asking whether Gemini's response was correct). Just as, if you ask a factual question to me, I might occasionally answer confidently but incorrectly.
    Agree with that.
    In this respect, AI is slightly analogous to an extremely fast researcher with the ability to do an inhumanly large amount of legwork, but also with pretty poor judgment, and a tendency to recount results inaccurately.

    As such, it can help automate tasks which you (or anyone else for that matter) wouldn't otherwise have the time or resources to undertake, so long as you don't place too much reliance on the results.

    Also a bit like X, and breaking news.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,827
    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    The Liverpool Parade sentencing hearing is quite something. You do occasionally come across individuals like this when you're cycling about; sobering that this one actually acted out the fantasy.

    Unless he has some sort of form for similar stuff, this is a sentencing nightmare. I find it hard to guess what he will get. At the moment I am estimating maybe 15-20 years, or life with a minimum term of about 10-12. But I can't really think of a parallel case. On some reckonings this would be worth a whole life tariff. On other reckonings this is an out of character inexplicable episode which should get a lot less.

    I should think whatever happens one or other side - perhaps both - will appeal it. It could do with a Court of Appeal consideration.
    It's getting worse and worse in the BBC reporting. Deliberately aiming at children in prams, hitting paramedics. Only stopped by a fan who jumped inside the car.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,190

    Doctors reject government offer and strikes will go ahead

    Time to bring in Badenoch promise to outlaw strikes by doctors, same as police

    As a boring centrist I'll go for a middle ground solution. Why not raise the voting threshold from 50% for doctors strikes to 65-75% area?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,428

    HYUFD said:

    @Ratters

    'The Tories, meanwhile, may find more of their natural supporters returning home as memories of their last stint in office fade. Think of it as their radioactive legacy having a half life. The more time passes, the less of it remains.'

    That's quite a good way of putting it.

    Their fourteen years was a pretty mixed bag. If you took out the Johnson/Truss period, it wasn't too bad. As you indicate, the memory should fade with time. I

    It's not my team, but if it were I'd stick with Badenoch and keep Jenrick on the subs bench.

    Jenrick is biding his time. If Badenoch stays then if Reform overtake the Tories on seats at the next GE he will likely join Farage, maybe even in government if Farage has become PM. If Reform don't overtake the Tories he will aim to be Tory leader after the next GE assuming a Tory defeat and reunite the populist right in a post Farage era, Farage likely by then having resigned as Reform leader
    Yep.

    Jenners is positioning himself as the "Unite the Right" candidate after the next General Election which, I think, is highly likely to deliver a Labour minority government supported by LibDems and/or Greens. This result will be blamed on a divided right.

    If there is a result like that, Nige and Kemi will both likely stand down as each is unacceptable to large parts of the other party, preventing a merger. Cleverly, who is RJs main Tory rival, would not be able to preside over a merger with Reform.

    I very much doubt that Jenrick will challenge Kemi in the meantime. He's young - has plenty of time - and if Kemi is defenestrated he may lose to Cleverly.
    Labour are 4 to be biggest party. Not a bad price.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,428

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    OT. For the last three nights there has been a black guy aged about 25 sleeping on a bench in a square outside my house here in Villefranche. It's quite cold at night and I've been feeling progressively worse about sleeping in a comfortable bed while he's sleeping out in the open with just a coat on. It's very unusual to see anyone sleeping rough here and he's not begging. Infact he seems to be trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. So my choices were .....

    1. Invite him in and give him a bed. (The Mother Theresa solution)
    2. Give him some money so he could eat. (The good Socialist solution)
    3. Call the Gendarmes and get him removed (The Max PB solution)

    Give money to a local homelessness charity along with this chap's particulars. (The classic embarrassed liberal solution.)
    Of course. That way the Good People working hard in administration at the homelessness charity will be able to afford plenty of Christmas presents for their children next week.
    There was a Private Eye joke where they said The Big Issue was to be renamed "Homeless and Gardenless".
    I used to do loads of charity volunteering as a youngster and a student. I now only donate to very small local charities, as the larger ones basically exist to fund themselves more than the cause. Any charity that sees fit to advertise on TV or national newspapers, for example, is too big.
    Likewise anyone with bibs trying to recruit donations either in the street or door to door. That’s a company profiteering from the charity.
    Yes, that’s gone in a couple of decades from a bunch of volunteer students on a RAG trip shaking tins outside Marks and Spencer, to professional chuggers trying to get you signing up for monthly subscriptions and earning commissions for doing so.
    The other one to watch for is the lifestyle charity - a few (often one or two) founders on 6 figures, a token amount of charity work done, rest of the staff treated like slave Labour.

    I call them lifestyle charities, because they are all about the lifestyle of the people at the top.
    Yep, a friend's partner was working for a donkey sanctuary charity, set up by a couple who were both retired police officers. The 3-4 staff were officially on minimum wage but working many 'free' hours too. My pal decided to check the 'charity' out and found out that both the founders were taking big salaries, charity provided cars etc. etc.
    A lot of cynicism today on PB! Most charities most of the time are full of people doing their best to make the world a better place. There are some exceptions (e.g., the Donald J Trump Foundation, dissolved by court order in 2018), of course. Small charities are often well-meaning but disorganised. Big charities can be much more efficient, but suffer the same challenges as all big organisations. But don’t let cynicism blind you to all the good many, many charities do, from the Carter Centre’s work to eradicate Guinea worm, to the local hospice helping one person at a time.
    To respond with a bit of waspy cynicism of my own perhaps some of it is a constructed rationale for not getting the wallet out. The equivalent of "they'd only spend it on booze".
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