No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Brexit supporters keep reinventing the EU in the same way that tech bros keep reinventing public transport.
Remember when they used to call the EU the EUSSR?
Ah, nostalgia. The Rotterdam effect, "Love Europe hate the EU", commissars, diktats, bendy bananas/cucumbers, "we hold all the cards", "the German car manufacturers will come to our aid", "350million: let's give it to the EU", "Bollocks to Brexit - it's not a done deal" by the Pimlico Plumbers, jumpers for goalposts...
They need to do one of those Top 40 Brexit Moments nostalgia shows for the 10 year anniversary next summer.
With number one being Putin achieving his dream of Brexit.
Would you give up a prized, long-held policy position of your own if Putin happened to agree with it?
I can't think of an example. What do you have in mind?
It's hypothetical. Say he called us undemocratic and suggested we opted for proportional representation, and you agreed. Would you vote against in a future PR referendum, or would you stick two fingers up to his meddling and vote for what you believed in? What if he criticised our having a monarchy and you were a republican like TSE? And so on...
Neither suggestion seems likely to fracture our national politics, or fragment European unity. Putin's take on either would be essentially irrelevant.
I think you need a more plausible example.
No example is required. I don't let Putin tell me how to vote. And I don't let him tell me how not to. And you wouldn't either. It's just a fun stick to bash leavers with. Fun but hollow.
Sure, but do you deny that breaking up the EU and NATO have been long term objectives of Putin? And did you ever wonder why?
Do you agree that ejecting Western countries from geopolitically strategic territory around the world is one of his long-term objectives?
Absolutely. Thats why he was cock a hoop over Brexit, and even more so over the election of Trump.
You're avoided the question. If Putin thinks that we should give up, say, the Chagos islands, would you change your own view in order to thwart him?
"Leaked files ‘show US wants to persuade four nations to leave EU’
The countries seen as targets to follow Brexit are Austria, Hungary, Italy and Poland, according to leaked details of the US national security strategy"
That's a USA Christian Nationalist geopolitical theme, which I heard some months ago from a USA commentator suggesting that from analysing the views of someone like Scott Bessant or Eldridge Colby or JD Vance. But I can't put a name to the commentator. It was discussed in the Ukraine the Latest podcast earlier.
It is based on their idea that UK France Germany Sweden etc are going Islamist in 30 years or so (obvious nuts, but they ARE nuts), and that to contain Russia they need an Eastern chain of still-Christian (ie still white) countries from N-S along the borders of Russia - so Poland etc. And then they can ignore anything West of that.
It is BS because their analysis of Europe is based on their assumptions themselves based on USA white nationalist culture - like the nostrums about no free speech in Europe, London the Islamist city because it has a Muslim mayor about whom Trump has tantrums, abortion being an existential evil and so on.
They take their own commonplaces viewed from inside the Usonian silo too seriously, but Yanks always have done.
It will fail because the Eastern Europeans know that Europe requires unity throughout, and we can't afford to be divided - even if in their view Western Europeans sit on our arses.
The UK's Muslim population has grown ninefold in the past 30 years. I don't see this trend reversing. Muslim majority in 30 years seems plausible.
The first time the religious ID question was asked in the census was in 2001 when the Muslim population was 3% or around 1.5mn people. In 2021 the number was around 6.5% or 4mn people. So the share has more or less doubled in 20 years. There is no plausible population scenario under which Muslims would be a majority of the UK population in 30 years, especially as fertility rates among Muslim women are declining over time and as the Muslim population ages you will start to see deaths catching up with births, so the growth in the percentage share of the population will slow. I'd be interested in seeing the source for your claim.
I would counter: A quick Google had the Muslim population in 1995 at c. 500,000. We're now at 4.5m. That's where I got ninefold from, though the 1995 figure was vague. I think it sounds aboit right though.
I'm not arguing that we will get there through birth rates, but through immigration. The more Muslims come here, the more attractive a destination it is for Muslims. There are more likely to be the sort of initial connections which lead to migration. It strikes me this is an exponential process. There are no shortages of individuals in Muslim.countries with both push and pull factors motivating them to the UK. Both the raw numbers and the push/pull favtors have grown in the last 30 years. If you'd said in 1995 that the Muslim.population would have grown from half a milliom to 4.5m, you would have been equally accused of frothery.
sounds more like the beginnings of brain rot than frothery
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Brexit supporters keep reinventing the EU in the same way that tech bros keep reinventing public transport.
Remember when they used to call the EU the EUSSR?
Ah, nostalgia. The Rotterdam effect, "Love Europe hate the EU", commissars, diktats, bendy bananas/cucumbers, "we hold all the cards", "the German car manufacturers will come to our aid", "350million: let's give it to the EU", "Bollocks to Brexit - it's not a done deal" by the Pimlico Plumbers, jumpers for goalposts...
They need to do one of those Top 40 Brexit Moments nostalgia shows for the 10 year anniversary next summer.
With number one being Putin achieving his dream of Brexit.
I don’t think Putin cared either way. Why would he ?
The same reason that he wants Hungary, Austria, Italy and Poland to leave, as per the instructions he gave to Trump.
It weakens the EU and turns us on each other. That has been Putin's prime foreign objective since he took power.
It’s sweet, here we are again, at that stage of a Trump presidency in which we determine him a Russian spy, and that there’s a video about to be released. Any day now that shows him compromised.
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Brexit supporters keep reinventing the EU in the same way that tech bros keep reinventing public transport.
Remember when they used to call the EU the EUSSR?
Ah, nostalgia. The Rotterdam effect, "Love Europe hate the EU", commissars, diktats, bendy bananas/cucumbers, "we hold all the cards", "the German car manufacturers will come to our aid", "350million: let's give it to the EU", "Bollocks to Brexit - it's not a done deal" by the Pimlico Plumbers, jumpers for goalposts...
They need to do one of those Top 40 Brexit Moments nostalgia shows for the 10 year anniversary next summer.
With number one being Putin achieving his dream of Brexit.
Would you give up a prized, long-held policy position of your own if Putin happened to agree with it?
I can't think of an example. What do you have in mind?
It's hypothetical. Say he called us undemocratic and suggested we opted for proportional representation, and you agreed. Would you vote against in a future PR referendum, or would you stick two fingers up to his meddling and vote for what you believed in? What if he criticised our having a monarchy and you were a republican like TSE? And so on...
Neither suggestion seems likely to fracture our national politics, or fragment European unity. Putin's take on either would be essentially irrelevant.
I think you need a more plausible example.
No example is required. I don't let Putin tell me how to vote. And I don't let him tell me how not to. And you wouldn't either. It's just a fun stick to bash leavers with. Fun but hollow.
Sure, but do you deny that breaking up the EU and NATO have been long term objectives of Putin? And did you ever wonder why?
Wasn't the remainer narrative that Brexit strengthened the EU by bringing it together?
Not something that I recall evrr saying. Indeed I think Brexit damaged the rEU nearly as much as it did the UK.
It is refreshing to hear Brexiterrs concede that Brexit was one of Putin's foreign policy goals. They generally are reluctant to do so, even when bribed by Putin like Nathan Gill.
I have no idea if Brexit was one of Putin's foreign policy goals. And that's the point: I shouldn't have to. I vote on what I think is best for Britain (and, of course, for me, like everyone else.)
(And I haven't conceded anything, you sneaky fox :-)
Were all the progressives who voted for Scottish Independence following the Putin line too?
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Brexit supporters keep reinventing the EU in the same way that tech bros keep reinventing public transport.
Remember when they used to call the EU the EUSSR?
Ah, nostalgia. The Rotterdam effect, "Love Europe hate the EU", commissars, diktats, bendy bananas/cucumbers, "we hold all the cards", "the German car manufacturers will come to our aid", "350million: let's give it to the EU", "Bollocks to Brexit - it's not a done deal" by the Pimlico Plumbers, jumpers for goalposts...
They need to do one of those Top 40 Brexit Moments nostalgia shows for the 10 year anniversary next summer.
With number one being Putin achieving his dream of Brexit.
I don’t think Putin cared either way. Why would he ?
The same reason that he wants Hungary, Austria, Italy and Poland to leave, as per the instructions he gave to Trump.
It weakens the EU and turns us on each other. That has been Putin's prime foreign objective since he took power.
It’s sweet, here we are again, at that stage of a Trump presidency in which we determine him a Russian spy, and that there’s a video about to be released. Any day now that shows him compromised.
I don't think he's a spy or compromised, I just think his actions demonstrate he feels closer alignment to Russian interests than British or European interests, and that was very predictable. He doesn't need to be compromised or have ulterior motives.
For their sakes I hope he is at least benefiting Americans as they hoped.
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Brexit supporters keep reinventing the EU in the same way that tech bros keep reinventing public transport.
Remember when they used to call the EU the EUSSR?
Ah, nostalgia. The Rotterdam effect, "Love Europe hate the EU", commissars, diktats, bendy bananas/cucumbers, "we hold all the cards", "the German car manufacturers will come to our aid", "350million: let's give it to the EU", "Bollocks to Brexit - it's not a done deal" by the Pimlico Plumbers, jumpers for goalposts...
They need to do one of those Top 40 Brexit Moments nostalgia shows for the 10 year anniversary next summer.
With number one being Putin achieving his dream of Brexit.
I don’t think Putin cared either way. Why would he ?
The same reason that he wants Hungary, Austria, Italy and Poland to leave, as per the instructions he gave to Trump.
It weakens the EU and turns us on each other. That has been Putin's prime foreign objective since he took power.
It’s sweet, here we are again, at that stage of a Trump presidency in which we determine him a Russian spy, and that there’s a video about to be released. Any day now that shows him compromised.
I don't think he's a Russian "asset", but I'm wondering how would his behavior be any different if he was?
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Brexit supporters keep reinventing the EU in the same way that tech bros keep reinventing public transport.
Remember when they used to call the EU the EUSSR?
Ah, nostalgia. The Rotterdam effect, "Love Europe hate the EU", commissars, diktats, bendy bananas/cucumbers, "we hold all the cards", "the German car manufacturers will come to our aid", "350million: let's give it to the EU", "Bollocks to Brexit - it's not a done deal" by the Pimlico Plumbers, jumpers for goalposts...
They need to do one of those Top 40 Brexit Moments nostalgia shows for the 10 year anniversary next summer.
With number one being Putin achieving his dream of Brexit.
I don’t think Putin cared either way. Why would he ?
The same reason that he wants Hungary, Austria, Italy and Poland to leave, as per the instructions he gave to Trump.
It weakens the EU and turns us on each other. That has been Putin's prime foreign objective since he took power.
It’s sweet, here we are again, at that stage of a Trump presidency in which we determine him a Russian spy, and that there’s a video about to be released. Any day now that shows him compromised.
I don't think he's a Russian "asset", but I'm wondering how would his behavior be any different if he was?
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Brexit supporters keep reinventing the EU in the same way that tech bros keep reinventing public transport.
Remember when they used to call the EU the EUSSR?
Ah, nostalgia. The Rotterdam effect, "Love Europe hate the EU", commissars, diktats, bendy bananas/cucumbers, "we hold all the cards", "the German car manufacturers will come to our aid", "350million: let's give it to the EU", "Bollocks to Brexit - it's not a done deal" by the Pimlico Plumbers, jumpers for goalposts...
They need to do one of those Top 40 Brexit Moments nostalgia shows for the 10 year anniversary next summer.
With number one being Putin achieving his dream of Brexit.
I don’t think Putin cared either way. Why would he ?
The same reason that he wants Hungary, Austria, Italy and Poland to leave, as per the instructions he gave to Trump.
It weakens the EU and turns us on each other. That has been Putin's prime foreign objective since he took power.
It’s sweet, here we are again, at that stage of a Trump presidency in which we determine him a Russian spy, and that there’s a video about to be released. Any day now that shows him compromised.
I don't think he's a Russian "asset", but I'm wondering how would his behavior be any different if he was?
ABEL Kyle Mark (Reform UK) 290 VAUGHAN, Anthony Philip (The Conservative Party Candidate) 280 HEAVEN, Brynley )Green Party) 115 BURLING, David Aaron (Labour Party) 23
E. 1,986; BPs 708
SOUTH KESTEVEN Belmont
LITCHFIELD, Richard Stephen (Reform UK) 239 STOKES, Adam Neil (The Conservative Party Candidate) 237 GIBBONS Declan Thomas Peter (Independent) 143 HOTHERSALL, Sean Duncan (Green Party) 61 NASH, Susan Elizabeth (Labour Party) 35
Trump: "We have to be unified. China is unified because they have one vote -- that's President Xi. He says 'do it' and that's the end of that. We have a different system."
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Brexit supporters keep reinventing the EU in the same way that tech bros keep reinventing public transport.
Remember when they used to call the EU the EUSSR?
Ah, nostalgia. The Rotterdam effect, "Love Europe hate the EU", commissars, diktats, bendy bananas/cucumbers, "we hold all the cards", "the German car manufacturers will come to our aid", "350million: let's give it to the EU", "Bollocks to Brexit - it's not a done deal" by the Pimlico Plumbers, jumpers for goalposts...
They need to do one of those Top 40 Brexit Moments nostalgia shows for the 10 year anniversary next summer.
With number one being Putin achieving his dream of Brexit.
Would you give up a prized, long-held policy position of your own if Putin happened to agree with it?
I can't think of an example. What do you have in mind?
It's hypothetical. Say he called us undemocratic and suggested we opted for proportional representation, and you agreed. Would you vote against in a future PR referendum, or would you stick two fingers up to his meddling and vote for what you believed in? What if he criticised our having a monarchy and you were a republican like TSE? And so on...
Neither suggestion seems likely to fracture our national politics, or fragment European unity. Putin's take on either would be essentially irrelevant.
I think you need a more plausible example.
No example is required. I don't let Putin tell me how to vote. And I don't let him tell me how not to. And you wouldn't either. It's just a fun stick to bash leavers with. Fun but hollow.
Sure, but do you deny that breaking up the EU and NATO have been long term objectives of Putin? And did you ever wonder why?
Wasn't the remainer narrative that Brexit strengthened the EU by bringing it together?
Not something that I recall evrr saying. Indeed I think Brexit damaged the rEU nearly as much as it did the UK.
It is refreshing to hear Brexiterrs concede that Brexit was one of Putin's foreign policy goals. They generally are reluctant to do so, even when bribed by Putin like Nathan Gill.
Should the million who marched against the Iraq war also reflect on enabling Putin by standing with him and furthering his objectives back then, or is it only Brexiteers you choose to feel morally superior to?
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Brexit supporters keep reinventing the EU in the same way that tech bros keep reinventing public transport.
Remember when they used to call the EU the EUSSR?
Ah, nostalgia. The Rotterdam effect, "Love Europe hate the EU", commissars, diktats, bendy bananas/cucumbers, "we hold all the cards", "the German car manufacturers will come to our aid", "350million: let's give it to the EU", "Bollocks to Brexit - it's not a done deal" by the Pimlico Plumbers, jumpers for goalposts...
They need to do one of those Top 40 Brexit Moments nostalgia shows for the 10 year anniversary next summer.
With number one being Putin achieving his dream of Brexit.
Would you give up a prized, long-held policy position of your own if Putin happened to agree with it?
I can't think of an example. What do you have in mind?
It's hypothetical. Say he called us undemocratic and suggested we opted for proportional representation, and you agreed. Would you vote against in a future PR referendum, or would you stick two fingers up to his meddling and vote for what you believed in? What if he criticised our having a monarchy and you were a republican like TSE? And so on...
Neither suggestion seems likely to fracture our national politics, or fragment European unity. Putin's take on either would be essentially irrelevant.
I think you need a more plausible example.
No example is required. I don't let Putin tell me how to vote. And I don't let him tell me how not to. And you wouldn't either. It's just a fun stick to bash leavers with. Fun but hollow.
Sure, but do you deny that breaking up the EU and NATO have been long term objectives of Putin? And did you ever wonder why?
Do you agree that ejecting Western countries from geopolitically strategic territory around the world is one of his long-term objectives?
Absolutely. Thats why he was cock a hoop over Brexit, and even more so over the election of Trump.
You're avoided the question. If Putin thinks that we should give up, say, the Chagos islands, would you change your own view in order to thwart him?
Here's the thing, though, if Putin knows his support might flip @Foxy's support, then he might advocate for something he opposes.
ABEL Kyle Mark (Reform UK) 290 VAUGHAN, Anthony Philip (The Conservative Party Candidate) 280 HEAVEN, Brynley )Green Party) 115 BURLING, David Aaron (Labour Party) 23
E. 1,986; BPs 708
SOUTH KESTEVEN Belmont
LITCHFIELD, Richard Stephen (Reform UK) 239 STOKES, Adam Neil (The Conservative Party Candidate) 237 GIBBONS Declan Thomas Peter (Independent) 143 HOTHERSALL, Sean Duncan (Green Party) 61 NASH, Susan Elizabeth (Labour Party) 35
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Brexit supporters keep reinventing the EU in the same way that tech bros keep reinventing public transport.
Remember when they used to call the EU the EUSSR?
Ah, nostalgia. The Rotterdam effect, "Love Europe hate the EU", commissars, diktats, bendy bananas/cucumbers, "we hold all the cards", "the German car manufacturers will come to our aid", "350million: let's give it to the EU", "Bollocks to Brexit - it's not a done deal" by the Pimlico Plumbers, jumpers for goalposts...
They need to do one of those Top 40 Brexit Moments nostalgia shows for the 10 year anniversary next summer.
With number one being Putin achieving his dream of Brexit.
Would you give up a prized, long-held policy position of your own if Putin happened to agree with it?
I can't think of an example. What do you have in mind?
It's hypothetical. Say he called us undemocratic and suggested we opted for proportional representation, and you agreed. Would you vote against in a future PR referendum, or would you stick two fingers up to his meddling and vote for what you believed in? What if he criticised our having a monarchy and you were a republican like TSE? And so on...
Neither suggestion seems likely to fracture our national politics, or fragment European unity. Putin's take on either would be essentially irrelevant.
I think you need a more plausible example.
No example is required. I don't let Putin tell me how to vote. And I don't let him tell me how not to. And you wouldn't either. It's just a fun stick to bash leavers with. Fun but hollow.
Sure, but do you deny that breaking up the EU and NATO have been long term objectives of Putin? And did you ever wonder why?
Do you agree that ejecting Western countries from geopolitically strategic territory around the world is one of his long-term objectives?
Absolutely. Thats why he was cock a hoop over Brexit, and even more so over the election of Trump.
You're avoided the question. If Putin thinks that we should give up, say, the Chagos islands, would you change your own view in order to thwart him?
Here's the thing, though, if Putin knows his support might flip @Foxy's support, then he might advocate for something he opposes.
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Because the EU isn’t for everyone. Shorn of its role in regulation, laws, finance, commerce, trade a European UN would be a pure geopolitics entity. The UN worked despite it not being like the EU as its efforts are focussed elsewhere than micromanaging its members.
Whilst I get you are a remainder (this isn’t a dig at all) would you not see that maybe a pan European organisation which is inclusive of the UK, Norway, Switzerland would be a useful force projection? If not then what is the point of the UN or any other bloc.
Switzerland is neutral and not going to change. Norway and Iceland are in the EEA so very closely aligned, it is only us and the Balkan microstates (some of which are pro-Russian) that are not in the EU.
Any organisation that you describe would have 85% EU votes. There is no need to reinvent the wheel, just remain in European institutions, and Rejoin either EEA or EU.
Re 85% EU votes, if it is outwith the EU and countries are voting based on their interests and not an EU bloc then you might find that many countries would take a view that is different to the view of the EU as an institution.
I’m simply projecting that some open minds where people can think of Europe without myopically seeing it as the EU might be beneficial and worth considering.
Besides, Foxy is being dishonest or ignorant. Norway and Iceland are most certainly not in the EU and do not apply the majority of EU laws and regulations. ABout 28% of EU legislation is also applied in Norway, almost entirely related to trade.
Yes that is why I described them as EEA, which is functionally a tiny appendage of the EU.
I would be happy with us rejoining the EEA so we could regain the advantages of the Single Market, but it would be more useful to have a seat at the top table and have a say in policy, hence full Rejoin is preferable.
It isn't essential to our security, but then neither is NATO.
Norway does have a say I policy. Indeed it is fully involved in the development of policy and if it doesn't like the final decision it also has a veto.on adoption. Something that is not available to full EU members.
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Because the EU isn’t for everyone. Shorn of its role in regulation, laws, finance, commerce, trade a European UN would be a pure geopolitics entity. The UN worked despite it not being like the EU as its efforts are focussed elsewhere than micromanaging its members.
Whilst I get you are a remainder (this isn’t a dig at all) would you not see that maybe a pan European organisation which is inclusive of the UK, Norway, Switzerland would be a useful force projection? If not then what is the point of the UN or any other bloc.
Switzerland is neutral and not going to change. Norway and Iceland are in the EEA so very closely aligned, it is only us and the Balkan microstates (some of which are pro-Russian) that are not in the EU.
Any organisation that you describe would have 85% EU votes. There is no need to reinvent the wheel, just remain in European institutions, and Rejoin either EEA or EU.
Re 85% EU votes, if it is outwith the EU and countries are voting based on their interests and not an EU bloc then you might find that many countries would take a view that is different to the view of the EU as an institution.
I’m simply projecting that some open minds where people can think of Europe without myopically seeing it as the EU might be beneficial and worth considering.
Besides, Foxy is being dishonest or ignorant. Norway and Iceland are most certainly not in the EU and do not apply the majority of EU laws and regulations. ABout 28% of EU legislation is also applied in Norway, almost entirely related to trade.
But that’s simply not the relevant metric. What percentage of the time does Norway deviate from the EU’s broad foreign policy goals?
SPotY betting moves since the nominations were published are that the two lady footballers have drifted and the rest have shortened. The top prices from major high street bookmakers have changed as follows:-
Rory McIlroy – Golf – 8/11 into 4/7 Lando Norris – Formula 1 – 5/1 into 4/1 Chloe Kelly – Football – 7/2 out to 13/2 Luke Littler – Darts – 33/1 into 20/1 Hannah Hampton – Football – 50/1 out to 66/1 Ellie Kildunne – Rugby Union – 100/1 into 66/1
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Brexit supporters keep reinventing the EU in the same way that tech bros keep reinventing public transport.
Remember when they used to call the EU the EUSSR?
Ah, nostalgia. The Rotterdam effect, "Love Europe hate the EU", commissars, diktats, bendy bananas/cucumbers, "we hold all the cards", "the German car manufacturers will come to our aid", "350million: let's give it to the EU", "Bollocks to Brexit - it's not a done deal" by the Pimlico Plumbers, jumpers for goalposts...
They need to do one of those Top 40 Brexit Moments nostalgia shows for the 10 year anniversary next summer.
With number one being Putin achieving his dream of Brexit.
Would you give up a prized, long-held policy position of your own if Putin happened to agree with it?
I can't think of an example. What do you have in mind?
It's hypothetical. Say he called us undemocratic and suggested we opted for proportional representation, and you agreed. Would you vote against in a future PR referendum, or would you stick two fingers up to his meddling and vote for what you believed in? What if he criticised our having a monarchy and you were a republican like TSE? And so on...
Neither suggestion seems likely to fracture our national politics, or fragment European unity. Putin's take on either would be essentially irrelevant.
I think you need a more plausible example.
No example is required. I don't let Putin tell me how to vote. And I don't let him tell me how not to. And you wouldn't either. It's just a fun stick to bash leavers with. Fun but hollow.
Sure, but do you deny that breaking up the EU and NATO have been long term objectives of Putin? And did you ever wonder why?
Do you agree that ejecting Western countries from geopolitically strategic territory around the world is one of his long-term objectives?
Absolutely. Thats why he was cock a hoop over Brexit, and even more so over the election of Trump.
Do you have the slightest fragment of evidence that Putin was "cock a hoop" over Brexit? I know you WANT him to have been delighted, but that doesn't mean he actually WAS.
The only quote I can find in the aftermath was dated 29 June 2016, when Putin said that Brexit would "have some good consequences and some bad consequences" - not exactly cock a hoop. Of course, he may well have relished the paralysis that Remainers inflicted on this country in the few following years as they discredited democracy by trying to defy the implementation of will of the people, but that's not the same thing.
Neither of those prevented, and Brexit probably facilitated, Boris Johnson's crucial, decisive and completely correct reaction to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The Prime Minister brought to power by Brexit did more than almost non-Ukrainian to thwart the invasion. So if Putin was cock a hoop, and again there's no evidence that I can find that he was, it was clearly yet another one of his spectacular miscalculations.
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Brexit supporters keep reinventing the EU in the same way that tech bros keep reinventing public transport.
Remember when they used to call the EU the EUSSR?
Ah, nostalgia. The Rotterdam effect, "Love Europe hate the EU", commissars, diktats, bendy bananas/cucumbers, "we hold all the cards", "the German car manufacturers will come to our aid", "350million: let's give it to the EU", "Bollocks to Brexit - it's not a done deal" by the Pimlico Plumbers, jumpers for goalposts...
They need to do one of those Top 40 Brexit Moments nostalgia shows for the 10 year anniversary next summer.
With number one being Putin achieving his dream of Brexit.
Would you give up a prized, long-held policy position of your own if Putin happened to agree with it?
I can't think of an example. What do you have in mind?
It's hypothetical. Say he called us undemocratic and suggested we opted for proportional representation, and you agreed. Would you vote against in a future PR referendum, or would you stick two fingers up to his meddling and vote for what you believed in? What if he criticised our having a monarchy and you were a republican like TSE? And so on...
Neither suggestion seems likely to fracture our national politics, or fragment European unity. Putin's take on either would be essentially irrelevant.
I think you need a more plausible example.
No example is required. I don't let Putin tell me how to vote. And I don't let him tell me how not to. And you wouldn't either. It's just a fun stick to bash leavers with. Fun but hollow.
Sure, but do you deny that breaking up the EU and NATO have been long term objectives of Putin? And did you ever wonder why?
Do you agree that ejecting Western countries from geopolitically strategic territory around the world is one of his long-term objectives?
Absolutely. Thats why he was cock a hoop over Brexit, and even more so over the election of Trump.
Do you have the slightest fragment of evidence that Putin was "cock a hoop" over Brexit? I know you WANT him to have been delighted, but that doesn't mean he actually WAS.
The only quote I can find in the aftermath was dated 29 June 2016, when Putin said that Brexit would "have some good consequences and some bad consequences" - not exactly cock a hoop. Of course, he may well have relished the paralysis that Remainers inflicted on this country in the few following years as they discredited democracy by trying to defy the implementation of will of the people, but that's not the same thing.
Neither of those prevented, and Brexit probably facilitated, Boris Johnson's crucial, decisive and completely correct reaction to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The Prime Minister brought to power by Brexit did more than almost non-Ukrainian to thwart the invasion. So if Putin was cock a hoop, and again there's no evidence that I can find that he was, it was clearly yet another one of his spectacular miscalculations.
I can't speak for VVP personally, buy it is quite well attested that Russian officials including the then Russian Ambassador expressed satisfaction at the outcome of the vote and implied that they had been partially responsible. The Quote from memory was something along the lines that they had beaten us down and we would take a long time to recover. It is too early for me to search but there is little doubt that Moscow was pleased at the outcome.
Mainly the use of private facilities by the NHS. Waiting lists will rise, productivity will fall (depending how you measure productivity, since we must remember all economic statistics are rubbish) or rise or go sideways.
No one in Ottawa appears to be willing to go on the record characterizing the planned build-up of a military reserve of 400,000 (85,000 regulars+100,000 military reservists+300,000 supplemental "citizen" reservists) as being about the United States but it is otherwise difficult to explain the rationale behind such a move, which will cost billions in baseline overhead (uniforms, personal equipment, admin/payroll, facilities upgrades, etc.) even without procuring lots of heavy/expensive military equipment.
Disability benefits surged due to austerity cuts, leading think-tank says ... In a "back-of-the-envelope calculation", the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) suggested disability benefit spending had increased by £900 million as a result of welfare cuts between 2010 and 2019.
The think tank broke down the welfare system into main two areas: non-health-related and health-related benefits; as it said it found cuts to the former had led to a rise in claims for the latter.
It listed cuts to housing benefit in 2011; the increase in the state pension age for women; the lowering of the overall benefit cap in 2016; and requiring single parents to prove they are looking for a job to get out-of-work benefits; among the changes which pushed more people towards claiming health-related benefits like the personal independence payment (Pip). https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/disability-benefits-surged-due-to-austerity-cuts-leading-think-tank-says-5HjdPHx_2/
I’m fit and still remember weirdly how to strip an SA80 or a LSW, remember basic infantry tactics and would be happy to do it - there are likely plenty of fit people 48 up who would be every bit as useful rather than an arbitrary cut off age.
This is just a numbers game. Older people are less fit, more prone to injury and less susceptible to psychological indoctrination to put themselves in mortal danger. Trying to work which older people deviate from this generalisation is beyond the capabilities of any real or imagined recruitment system and it's just not worth trying for weekend warriors.
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Brexit supporters keep reinventing the EU in the same way that tech bros keep reinventing public transport.
Remember when they used to call the EU the EUSSR?
Ah, nostalgia. The Rotterdam effect, "Love Europe hate the EU", commissars, diktats, bendy bananas/cucumbers, "we hold all the cards", "the German car manufacturers will come to our aid", "350million: let's give it to the EU", "Bollocks to Brexit - it's not a done deal" by the Pimlico Plumbers, jumpers for goalposts...
They need to do one of those Top 40 Brexit Moments nostalgia shows for the 10 year anniversary next summer.
With number one being Putin achieving his dream of Brexit.
Surely, number one is the bus? Everyone still talks about the bloody bus...
I've heard a lot of hardcore remainer talk in real life, but I have never heard the bus mentioned outside of the internet.
A lot of anecdotes sound pretty fake, but I can't discount them after [anecdote alert] I was immediately asked what I thought about Brexit by a Belgian tourist in Greece, once they discovered I was British. I then made non-committal sounds and vague agreement as they and their British friends talked about Brits getting angry about being in the non-EU passport lines and so on.
Particularly after this long I never expected to have so immediate a conversation with a stranger.
The head of border control at Frankfurt earlier this week was blaming the European Commission
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Because the EU isn’t for everyone. Shorn of its role in regulation, laws, finance, commerce, trade a European UN would be a pure geopolitics entity. The UN worked despite it not being like the EU as its efforts are focussed elsewhere than micromanaging its members.
Whilst I get you are a remainer (this isn’t a dig at all) would you not see that maybe a pan European organisation which is inclusive of the UK, Norway, Switzerland would be a useful force projection? If not then what is the point of the UN or any other bloc.
This just recreates the unsustainable Inner Six/Outer Seven structure of the 60s and will probably end in the same way.
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Brexit supporters keep reinventing the EU in the same way that tech bros keep reinventing public transport.
Remember when they used to call the EU the EUSSR?
Ah, nostalgia. The Rotterdam effect, "Love Europe hate the EU", commissars, diktats, bendy bananas/cucumbers, "we hold all the cards", "the German car manufacturers will come to our aid", "350million: let's give it to the EU", "Bollocks to Brexit - it's not a done deal" by the Pimlico Plumbers, jumpers for goalposts...
They need to do one of those Top 40 Brexit Moments nostalgia shows for the 10 year anniversary next summer.
With number one being Putin achieving his dream of Brexit.
Would you give up a prized, long-held policy position of your own if Putin happened to agree with it?
I can't think of an example. What do you have in mind?
It's hypothetical. Say he called us undemocratic and suggested we opted for proportional representation, and you agreed. Would you vote against in a future PR referendum, or would you stick two fingers up to his meddling and vote for what you believed in? What if he criticised our having a monarchy and you were a republican like TSE? And so on...
Neither suggestion seems likely to fracture our national politics, or fragment European unity. Putin's take on either would be essentially irrelevant.
I think you need a more plausible example.
No example is required. I don't let Putin tell me how to vote. And I don't let him tell me how not to. And you wouldn't either. It's just a fun stick to bash leavers with. Fun but hollow.
Sure, but do you deny that breaking up the EU and NATO have been long term objectives of Putin? And did you ever wonder why?
Do you agree that ejecting Western countries from geopolitically strategic territory around the world is one of his long-term objectives?
Absolutely. Thats why he was cock a hoop over Brexit, and even more so over the election of Trump.
Do you have the slightest fragment of evidence that Putin was "cock a hoop" over Brexit? I know you WANT him to have been delighted, but that doesn't mean he actually WAS.
The only quote I can find in the aftermath was dated 29 June 2016, when Putin said that Brexit would "have some good consequences and some bad consequences" - not exactly cock a hoop. Of course, he may well have relished the paralysis that Remainers inflicted on this country in the few following years as they discredited democracy by trying to defy the implementation of will of the people, but that's not the same thing.
Neither of those prevented, and Brexit probably facilitated, Boris Johnson's crucial, decisive and completely correct reaction to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The Prime Minister brought to power by Brexit did more than almost non-Ukrainian to thwart the invasion. So if Putin was cock a hoop, and again there's no evidence that I can find that he was, it was clearly yet another one of his spectacular miscalculations.
I can't speak for VVP personally, buy it is quite well attested that Russian officials including the then Russian Ambassador expressed satisfaction at the outcome of the vote and implied that they had been partially responsible. The Quote from memory was something along the lines that they had beaten us down and we would take a long time to recover. It is too early for me to search but there is little doubt that Moscow was pleased at the outcome.
These are from the same minds who dismiss people who are taken in by conspiracy theories.
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Brexit supporters keep reinventing the EU in the same way that tech bros keep reinventing public transport.
Remember when they used to call the EU the EUSSR?
Ah, nostalgia. The Rotterdam effect, "Love Europe hate the EU", commissars, diktats, bendy bananas/cucumbers, "we hold all the cards", "the German car manufacturers will come to our aid", "350million: let's give it to the EU", "Bollocks to Brexit - it's not a done deal" by the Pimlico Plumbers, jumpers for goalposts...
They need to do one of those Top 40 Brexit Moments nostalgia shows for the 10 year anniversary next summer.
With number one being Putin achieving his dream of Brexit.
I don’t think Putin cared either way. Why would he ?
The same reason that he wants Hungary, Austria, Italy and Poland to leave, as per the instructions he gave to Trump.
It weakens the EU and turns us on each other. That has been Putin's prime foreign objective since he took power.
It’s sweet, here we are again, at that stage of a Trump presidency in which we determine him a Russian spy, and that there’s a video about to be released. Any day now that shows him compromised.
I don't think he's a Russian "asset", but I'm wondering how would his behavior be any different if he was?
Who bailed out his businesses when they consistently failed (via Deutsche Bank)? Who bought his Florida house for well over the market value when he was short of cash?
I could have told you that in October - anything else would have been a shock...
Once again huge falls in Lab and Con votes.
Once again, the Danelaw line between Reform and LDs holds good. Being close to the line, those voters in Lichfield clearly got confused and voted Tory.
Trump: "We have to be unified. China is unified because they have one vote -- that's President Xi. He says 'do it' and that's the end of that. We have a different system."
Within that thread is a link to Angela Merkel's memoirs where she mentions her meeting him for the first time. The last part is telling as it refers to the behaviour of men known for domestic violence, their views on women and their need for control. There may be more in the Epstein files though it may never be known in his lifetime.
Angela Merkel’s first mistake with Donald Trump, she says in her new memoir, was treating him as if he were “completely normal”, but she quickly learned of his “emotional” nature and soft spot for authoritarians and tyrants. She stressed that she was wrong about Trump since she first thought he was "normal".
- During their first meeting in 2017 in the Oval Office, where he attempted to humiliate her by refusing to shake her hand before the cameras. “I whispered to him that we should shake hands again,” she writes. “As soon as the words left my mouth, I shook my head at myself. How could I forget that Trump knew precisely what he was doing. He wanted to give people something to talk about with his behavior, while I had acted as though I were having a conversation with someone completely normal.”
- Now unbound by diplomatic niceties, Merkel sizes up Trump as “emotional” and driven by grievance and neediness, in contrast to her “factual” approach. “It seemed that his main aim was to make the person he was talking to feel guilty. At the same time, I had the impression that he also wanted the person he was talking with to like him.”
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Brexit supporters keep reinventing the EU in the same way that tech bros keep reinventing public transport.
Remember when they used to call the EU the EUSSR?
Ah, nostalgia. The Rotterdam effect, "Love Europe hate the EU", commissars, diktats, bendy bananas/cucumbers, "we hold all the cards", "the German car manufacturers will come to our aid", "350million: let's give it to the EU", "Bollocks to Brexit - it's not a done deal" by the Pimlico Plumbers, jumpers for goalposts...
They need to do one of those Top 40 Brexit Moments nostalgia shows for the 10 year anniversary next summer.
With number one being Putin achieving his dream of Brexit.
Surely, number one is the bus? Everyone still talks about the bloody bus...
I've heard a lot of hardcore remainer talk in real life, but I have never heard the bus mentioned outside of the internet.
A lot of anecdotes sound pretty fake, but I can't discount them after [anecdote alert] I was immediately asked what I thought about Brexit by a Belgian tourist in Greece, once they discovered I was British. I then made non-committal sounds and vague agreement as they and their British friends talked about Brits getting angry about being in the non-EU passport lines and so on.
Particularly after this long I never expected to have so immediate a conversation with a stranger.
The head of border control at Frankfurt earlier this week was blaming the European Commission
The "punishment beatings" mindset is still strong with some...
SAN FRANCISCO, Dec 11 (Reuters) - Tesla's (TSLA.O), opens new tab U.S. sales dropped to a near four-year low in November, despite the automaker's rollout of new, cheaper versions of its best-selling electric vehicles, estimates from Cox Automotive given exclusively to Reuters showed on Thursday.
Making a success of the more affordable variants, called Standard, is important for Tesla and a test of its strategy for how to keep selling cars and bring in revenue as it transitions to making robotaxis and building humanoid robots, which are the core reasons investors value the company at $1.4 trillion.
Trump: "We have to be unified. China is unified because they have one vote -- that's President Xi. He says 'do it' and that's the end of that. We have a different system."
Within that thread is a link to Angela Merkel's memoirs where she mentions her meeting him for the first time. The last part is telling as it refers to the behaviour of men known for domestic violence, their views on women and their need for control. There may be more in the Epstein files though it may never be known in his lifetime.
Angela Merkel’s first mistake with Donald Trump, she says in her new memoir, was treating him as if he were “completely normal”, but she quickly learned of his “emotional” nature and soft spot for authoritarians and tyrants. She stressed that she was wrong about Trump since she first thought he was "normal".
- During their first meeting in 2017 in the Oval Office, where he attempted to humiliate her by refusing to shake her hand before the cameras. “I whispered to him that we should shake hands again,” she writes. “As soon as the words left my mouth, I shook my head at myself. How could I forget that Trump knew precisely what he was doing. He wanted to give people something to talk about with his behavior, while I had acted as though I were having a conversation with someone completely normal.”
- Now unbound by diplomatic niceties, Merkel sizes up Trump as “emotional” and driven by grievance and neediness, in contrast to her “factual” approach. “It seemed that his main aim was to make the person he was talking to feel guilty. At the same time, I had the impression that he also wanted the person he was talking with to like him.”
It would have been better if she had maybe come to this realization, say, eight years earlier.
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Why can't it be an EU thing? You have more or less described the purpose of the EU.
Brexit supporters keep reinventing the EU in the same way that tech bros keep reinventing public transport.
Remember when they used to call the EU the EUSSR?
Ah, nostalgia. The Rotterdam effect, "Love Europe hate the EU", commissars, diktats, bendy bananas/cucumbers, "we hold all the cards", "the German car manufacturers will come to our aid", "350million: let's give it to the EU", "Bollocks to Brexit - it's not a done deal" by the Pimlico Plumbers, jumpers for goalposts...
They need to do one of those Top 40 Brexit Moments nostalgia shows for the 10 year anniversary next summer.
With number one being Putin achieving his dream of Brexit.
I don’t think Putin cared either way. Why would he ?
The same reason that he wants Hungary, Austria, Italy and Poland to leave, as per the instructions he gave to Trump.
It weakens the EU and turns us on each other. That has been Putin's prime foreign objective since he took power.
It’s sweet, here we are again, at that stage of a Trump presidency in which we determine him a Russian spy, and that there’s a video about to be released. Any day now that shows him compromised.
I don't think he's a Russian "asset", but I'm wondering how would his behavior be any different if he was?
Not the only one.
How would GDR Merkel's behaviour been any different if she was a Russian asset.
Gerhard Schroeder we now know was a Russian asset.
No comments on this post? Don't know if confiscating Russian assets is a game changer, but it'll certainly make the Russians hopping mad. It's been a long time coming, and frankly I didn't think the EU would ever do it. I'm not normally a fan of the EU, but all credit to them if this is enacted.
Are there any alternatives to the EU as a bulwark for European interests that you are a fan of?
I posted on the old thread by a mistake that maybe Europe needs its own “UN” outwith the EU where it can listen to all European voices but not be a tool of the EU. Europe has huge social capital, soft power, vast financial power and can be a huge military (defensive preferably) power but it has to be outside of the EU.
This European UN can speak as a voice to China and the US, shorn of any concept of being a lapdog to the US so can perhaps be taken more at face value by Africa and Asia. We should be leveraging that if you want to deal with Europe (and that is the whole of Europe) you need to listen. But Europe needs to regain its self confidence, three countries effectively ruled most of the world, we aren’t weak, we aren’t stupid, we have power. But again, it can’t be an EU thing.
Yes but the last sentence is an oddity. It's easier to expand a wheel than reinvent it.
Agree with your sentiment vis a vis the EU but the pedant in me is troubled by the analogy - how do you expand a wheel?
Comments
(And I haven't conceded anything, you sneaky fox :-)
Were all the progressives who voted for Scottish Independence following the Putin line too?
For their sakes I hope he is at least benefiting Americans as they hoped.
Con hold
Con 630
Ref 431
Lab 127
LD 99
Grn 63
Con 46.67% [-6.26]
Ref 31.93% [new]
Lab 9.41% [-23.52]
LD 7.33% [-6.82]
Grn 4.67% [new]
Electorate 6,020
Total votes 1,350
Turnout 22.43%
https://www.x.com/councilsUK/status/1999262133666873521
https://democracy.lichfielddc.gov.uk/mgElectionAreaResults.aspx?ID=152&RPID=77604194
ABEL Kyle Mark (Reform UK) 290
VAUGHAN, Anthony Philip (The Conservative Party Candidate) 280
HEAVEN, Brynley )Green Party) 115
BURLING, David Aaron (Labour Party) 23
E. 1,986; BPs 708
SOUTH KESTEVEN Belmont
LITCHFIELD, Richard Stephen (Reform UK) 239
STOKES, Adam Neil (The Conservative Party Candidate) 237
GIBBONS Declan Thomas Peter (Independent) 143
HOTHERSALL, Sean Duncan (Green Party) 61
NASH, Susan Elizabeth (Labour Party) 35
E. 3,430; BPs 717; spoiled 2"
https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/19796/local-council-elections-11th-december?page=3
Majorities of 10 and 2 votes.
Aaron Rupar
@atrupar.com
Trump: "We have to be unified. China is unified because they have one vote -- that's President Xi. He says 'do it' and that's the end of that. We have a different system."
https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m7qqp6jinz2c
Glass houses and all that.
Several posters would have a beard down to the floor rather than consider it
could have made all the difference
Ref gain from Lab
RefUK 341
Con 157
LD 157
Lab 152
Green 89
Ind 9
Ref 37.68% [new]
Con 17.35% [-22.53]
LD 17.35% [new]
Lab 16.80% [-37.06]
Grn 9.83% [+3.57]
Ind 0.99% [new]
SOUTH KESTEVEN Aveland
Ref 40.96% [+26.47]
Con 39.55% [-19.04]
Grn 16.24% [new]
Lab 3.25% [new]
(LD prev 26.92%)
SOUTH KESTEVEN Belmont
Ref 33.43% [new]
Con 33.14% [+1.49]
Ind 20.00% [-29.00]
Grn 8.53% [new]
Lab 4.90% [-14.45]
PC hold
PC 956
Ref 422
Lab 114
Con 66
LD. 32
PC 60.13% [+6.26]
Ref 26.54% [new]
Lab 7.17% [-24.44]
Con 4.15% [-10.36]
LD 2.01% [new]
Got to say Labour coming fourth there is a surprise, that means a safe labour seat has got people voting Lib Dem as an anti-reform vote.
LD gain from Con
LD 789
Ref 565
Con 400
Ind 156
LD 41.31% [+21.23]
Ref 29.58% [new]
Con 20.94% [-9.49]
Ind 8.17% [new]
(Ind prev 36.61%)
(Lab prev 12.88%)
Voters are odd.
Horrific for Labour though.
If you watch Die Hard straight after Love Actually, Alan Rickman will be punished for what he did to Emma Thompson.
Con hold
Con 1194
Ref 470
Grn 150
Lab 147
Con 60.89% [+4.39]
Ref 23.97% [+17.59]
Grn 7.65% [-0.23]
Lab 7.50% [-21.74]
Elect 5472
TV 1961
Turnout 35.84%
x.com/JimLodge13/status/1999277648967598332
Rory McIlroy – Golf – 8/11 into 4/7
Lando Norris – Formula 1 – 5/1 into 4/1
Chloe Kelly – Football – 7/2 out to 13/2
Luke Littler – Darts – 33/1 into 20/1
Hannah Hampton – Football – 50/1 out to 66/1
Ellie Kildunne – Rugby Union – 100/1 into 66/1
The only quote I can find in the aftermath was dated 29 June 2016, when Putin said that Brexit would "have some good consequences and some bad consequences" - not exactly cock a hoop. Of course, he may well have relished the paralysis that Remainers inflicted on this country in the few following years as they discredited democracy by trying to defy the implementation of will of the people, but that's not the same thing.
Neither of those prevented, and Brexit probably facilitated, Boris Johnson's crucial, decisive and completely correct reaction to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The Prime Minister brought to power by Brexit did more than almost non-Ukrainian to thwart the invasion. So if Putin was cock a hoop, and again there's no evidence that I can find that he was, it was clearly yet another one of his spectacular miscalculations.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crrkervnxvqo
Mainly the use of private facilities by the NHS. Waiting lists will rise, productivity will fall (depending how you measure productivity, since we must remember all economic statistics are rubbish) or rise or go sideways.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyd9nxezjyo
An interesting analysis of new trends in shoplifting including organised crime gangs from here and abroad.
No one in Ottawa appears to be willing to go on the record characterizing the planned build-up of a military reserve of 400,000 (85,000 regulars+100,000 military reservists+300,000 supplemental "citizen" reservists) as being about the United States but it is otherwise difficult to explain the rationale behind such a move, which will cost billions in baseline overhead (uniforms, personal equipment, admin/payroll, facilities upgrades, etc.) even without procuring lots of heavy/expensive military equipment.
...
In a "back-of-the-envelope calculation", the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) suggested disability benefit spending had increased by £900 million as a result of welfare cuts between 2010 and 2019.
The think tank broke down the welfare system into main two areas: non-health-related and health-related benefits; as it said it found cuts to the former had led to a rise in claims for the latter.
It listed cuts to housing benefit in 2011; the increase in the state pension age for women; the lowering of the overall benefit cap in 2016; and requiring single parents to prove they are looking for a job to get out-of-work benefits; among the changes which pushed more people towards claiming health-related benefits like the personal independence payment (Pip).
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/disability-benefits-surged-due-to-austerity-cuts-leading-think-tank-says-5HjdPHx_2/
One of the stores listed is called Triads.. complaining about organised crime..
- During their first meeting in 2017 in the Oval Office, where he attempted to humiliate her by refusing to shake her hand before the cameras. “I whispered to him that we should shake hands again,” she writes. “As soon as the words left my mouth, I shook my head at myself. How could I forget that Trump knew precisely what he was doing. He wanted to give people something to talk about with his behavior, while I had acted as though I were having a conversation with someone completely normal.”
- Now unbound by diplomatic niceties, Merkel sizes up Trump as “emotional” and driven by grievance and neediness, in contrast to her “factual” approach. “It seemed that his main aim was to make the person he was talking to feel guilty. At the same time, I had the impression that he also wanted the person he was talking with to like him.”
Just wait for Model YSAN FRANCISCO, Dec 11 (Reuters) - Tesla's (TSLA.O), opens new tab U.S. sales dropped to a near four-year low in November, despite the automaker's rollout of new, cheaper versions of its best-selling electric vehicles, estimates from Cox Automotive given exclusively to Reuters showed on Thursday.
Making a success of the more affordable variants, called Standard, is important for Tesla and a test of its strategy for how to keep selling cars and bring in revenue as it transitions to making robotaxis and building humanoid robots, which are the core reasons investors value the company at $1.4 trillion.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-us-sales-drop-nearly-3-year-low-november-despite-launch-cheaper-versions-2025-12-11/
We aren't in recession but we are bouncing around one...
NEW THREAD
How would GDR Merkel's behaviour been any different if she was a Russian asset.
Gerhard Schroeder we now know was a Russian asset.