Si vis pacem, para bellum – politicalbetting.com

System · December 11

Si vis pacem, para bellum – politicalbetting.com

NATO chief Mark Rutte has warned its member states are "Russia's next target"Speaking at a security conference, he says the bloc must make all efforts to prevent a war that could be "on the scale of war our grandparents and great-grandparents endured"https://t.co/wMLXQ1q5hP pic.twitter.com/HMMGA7J9xw

Read the full story here

Foxy · December 11

Putin must think it is Christmas...

kle4 · December 11

Nah, Russia are all cuddly and friendly, and all their grievances at nations daring to defend themselves are justified, I saw it on Fox News.

Peter_the_Punter · December 11

Me too, TSE. I am astonished to find myself living in a world where we have to mistrust our greatest ally.

Is this a first?

Rats. A mere third.

OnlyLivingBoy · December 11

And our very own Putinist useful idiot leading in the polls. When is this country going to wake up to the fact that we are already at war with Russia?

kle4 · December 11

In all seriousness the USA can no longer be regarded as a reliable ally. Some will welcome that, we need to stand on our own two feet and all that, but the transition from having alignment on most things to being openly treated like dirt by the White House - happily supported by 45-50% of Americans - is a significant change that won't go away when Trump eventually exits.

DecrepiterJohnL · December 11

World Cup ticket prices 'monumental betrayal'
Supporters hoping to attend next year's World Cup final face paying vast prices, with tickets in the 'supporter value tier' starting at £3,119
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c80x38e04yro

OldKingCole · December 11

When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.

Nigelb · December 11

FPT

Malmesbury said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

Nigelb said:

Dura_Ace said:

Nigelb said:
Your daily Ajax.

https://x.com/MilitaryBanter/status/1999095846353121456
Detailed Employee Account: Systemic Issues within the General Dynamics Ajax Programme

As a long-serving General Dynamics employee working directly on the Ajax vehicle programme, I feel compelled to document the profound systemic and cultural failures I have witnessed. My surprise is not that the programme has encountered technical challenges, but that the sheer scale and nature of the issues—many stemming from managerial pressure and a culture of corner-cutting—have not been brought to light earlier in a meaningful way.

The problems extend far beyond design flaws. On the shop floor, we operate under intense pressure from management to meet deadlines, often at the expense of procedure and safety. The prevailing directive from certain managers is to "just make it fit," with instructions to "do what you got to do—grind it, cut it, hammer it in, or boot it." This ethos of force-fitting components directly contradicts engineering standards and creates inherent vulnerabilities in the vehicle's integrity.

I have observed managers and quality personnel witnessing these practices without intervention, effectively endorsing them. Specific, recurring failures include:

· Critical Safety Omissions: Armour bolts left unfitted behind the VIP bin, compromising ballistic protection.
· Persistent Functional Failures: The driver's hatch mechanism continues to fail despite being a known, long-standing issue.
· Chronic Leaks: Fuel and hydraulic leaks are commonplace, indicating persistent sealing or subsystem integration problems.
· Falsified Safety Records: Most alarmingly, I have seen safety notices stamped off as completed. Upon physical verification, the required work had not been done. A grave example is within the Ajax battery compartment, a high-risk area that remains live even after isolation. Signing off on unperformed work here is not just negligent; it is dangerously irresponsible.

The logistical and support side of the programme is equally broken. We face severe parts shortages. To keep the current production line moving, we have been systematically cannibalising vehicles from a storage fleet of approximately 50 trucks in Llanelli. These vehicles haven't been started in years, their batteries are long dead, and we strip them for components because new parts are simply unavailable. This is not sustainable manufacturing; it is a desperate and inefficient salvage operation that underscores a profound failure in supply chain management.

Perhaps most disheartening is the cultural corrosion. A specific example that shocked me was witnessing a former 2ic (second-in-command) at the Merthyr site rapidly abandon his principles upon accepting a managerial position within General Dynamics...
Sounds to me like GDLS are cutting through all of the "process state" bullshit so detested by our right wing chums on here.

Also, any suggestion that we increase defence spending should just be met with the word, "Ajax."
The second bit of that's a non sequitur.
It's an argument for stopping fucking up, not giving up entirely. Though some will make that argument.

The reality is that the government is pretty resistant to increasing defence spending anyway - which partly explains the reluctance to acknowledge disastrous failures in procurement, and write off large chunks of the billions we've spent,
And when they do spend it’s all about the jobs, not what they are buying.

Ajax was about 700 jobs in Wales. A million per worker, in cash, would have been an order of magnitude cheaper.
Still is, if you listen to the local MPs.
(There are probably a few thousand more jobs across the UK involved in the supply chain - but that would have been the same if they'd picked the BAE CV90 back in 2010/12.)

I get the impression that one of the the reasons GDLS got the contract was related to the tactical comms system they supply with it (which if had been delivered a decade ago might have been state of the art). It certainly made no sense at all to award a production contract to an unproven platform which have to be heavily modified to meet UK requirements.

I wouldn't suggest an enquiry, as we wouldn't learn anything for a decade, if then, but the entire program seems to be an object lesson in how not to do defence procurement.
“heavily modified to meet UK requirements.”

Why are our requirements different to the CV90? Which has been destroying T-90 tanks in Ukraine (auto cannon vs turret ring)

Essentially, they aren't.
CV90 was pretty well ready just to manufacture.
All BAE needed to do was build a plant in the UK (Newcastle was their proposal).

As I said, I think the MoD just assumed that a heavily modified Spanish platform which wasn't even built in Spain, let alone the UK, would work.

Note it was planned to integrate the (then) fancy new battlefield comms system 'Morpheus'.
That's since been cancelled, and we're falling back on the old Bowman system (produced by GDLS UK).

MarqueeMark · December 11

kle4 said:
In all seriousness the USA can no longer be regarded as a reliable ally. Some will welcome that, we need to stand on our own two feet and all that, but the transition from having alignment on most things to being openly treated like dirt by the White House - happily supported by 45-50% of Americans - is a significant change that won't go away when Trump eventually exits.

America was never a "dependable ally". When did it join WW1? WW2? When its trade interests were at risk. The idea of some paternalism by Uncle Sam to help the good people in liberal democracies is so mch BS. They attack to defend the petro-dollar as the world's reserve currency. Otherwise, they sit on their hands. Trump is just an extreme wake-up call to the rest of us.

OldKingCole · December 11

DecrepiterJohnL said:
World Cup ticket prices 'monumental betrayal'
Supporters hoping to attend next year's World Cup final face paying vast prices, with tickets in the 'supporter value tier' starting at £3,119
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c80x38e04yro

Is that for the games in the USA or for all of them?

williamglenn · December 11

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.

Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?

Big_G_NorthWales · December 11

Agreed and maybe Europe and the UK have taken the US for granted for too long

Goodness only knows where this will end, but it is a sober reminder to the west that they cannot rely on the US, indeed it looks more malign daily

Also Labour still on 14% in this poll and Greens joint 2nd with conservatives

I do not know how anyone can predict the future and certainly not the next few years

Maybe as a non gambler it saves me money but at the same time I am sure astute gamblers will see a good bet at times

https://x.com/i/status/1999160744206606521

TheScreamingEagles · December 11

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?

Yes.

Nigelb · December 11

A timely header.

Though note that Rutte is the one who called Trump "Daddy" led the European suckup to the Trump administration.

If even he is flirting with hawkishness, then the weather has definitely changed.

TimS · December 11

Daily central England temperature record attempt update: +0.7C now the RRR for the rest of December.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

williamglenn · December 11

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.

How? Suez also had the element of siding with Russia against us, so it can't be that.

TheScreamingEagles · December 11

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
How? Suez also had the element of siding with Russia against us, so it can't be that.

I cannot be arsed with your twatabouttery when it comes to this.

Omnium · December 11

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.

It's amazing that the wool didn't fall from the eyes of the politicians then. The US absolutely screwed us and the French.

But with Trump flaunting it all out front.

Nigelb · December 11

.

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.

The comparison is foolish.
Suez faced strong domestic opposition, as well as US resistance.
And it was launched without consultation, and directly undermined US foreign policy, at the time of the Soviet action in Hungary.

I don't usually quote Nixon with approval, but this shows just how much worse is the current incumbent.
"We couldn't on one hand, complain about the Soviets intervening in Hungary and, on the other hand, approve of the British and the French picking that particular time to intervene against Nasser".

williamglenn · December 11

Nigelb said:
.
TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
The comparison is foolish.
Suez faced strong domestic opposition, as well as US resistance.
And it was launched without consultation, and directly undermined US foreign policy, at the time of the Soviet action in Hungary.

I don't usually quote Nixon with approval, but this shows just how much worse is the current incumbent.
"We couldn't on one hand, complain about the Soviets intervening in Hungary and, on the other hand, approve of the British and the French picking that particular time to intervene against Nasser".

So we shouldn't undermine US foreign policy?

Omnium · December 11

Nigelb said:
.
TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
The comparison is foolish.
Suez faced strong domestic opposition, as well as US resistance.
And it was launched without consultation, and directly undermined US foreign policy, at the time of the Soviet action in Hungary.

I don't usually quote Nixon with approval, but this shows just how much worse is the current incumbent.
"We couldn't on one hand, complain about the Soviets intervening in Hungary and, on the other hand, approve of the British and the French picking that particular time to intervene against Nasser".

The very same Nixon who conspired with a foreign power that the US was at war with for his own political convenience?

Taz · December 11

OldKingCole said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
World Cup ticket prices 'monumental betrayal'
Supporters hoping to attend next year's World Cup final face paying vast prices, with tickets in the 'supporter value tier' starting at £3,119
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c80x38e04yro
Is that for the games in the USA or for all of them?

Here’s the prices for the England World Cup soccer matches.

I cannot post the pic as I’ve had mine for the day.

https://x.com/henrywinter/status/1999170720186683430?s=61

solarflare · December 11

Can we not just set up Russia, USA and China with either a nice game of Risk or a Civ server and leave them to it and us back in the real world can just get on with everyday life?

kle4 · December 11

MarqueeMark said:

kle4 said:
In all seriousness the USA can no longer be regarded as a reliable ally. Some will welcome that, we need to stand on our own two feet and all that, but the transition from having alignment on most things to being openly treated like dirt by the White House - happily supported by 45-50% of Americans - is a significant change that won't go away when Trump eventually exits.
America was never a "dependable ally". When did it join WW1? WW2? When its trade interests were at risk. The idea of some paternalism by Uncle Sam to help the good people in liberal democracies is so mch BS. They attack to defend the petro-dollar as the world's reserve currency. Otherwise, they sit on their hands. Trump is just an extreme wake-up call to the rest of us.

I think that is a little extreme. By reliable I don't mean that they would have the back of the West in all cases for no benefit of their own, but we could generally expect at least that they would not genuinely prefer authoritarian states to historic democratic allies. Now they do, even if it is not in their favour. Obviously none of that is 100%, history is complicated and shitty things are done to allies from time to time, but there's real antipathy towards places like Canada and the UK that was not being shown before.

Big_G_NorthWales · December 11

Nigelb said:
A timely header.

Though note that Rutte is the one who called Trump "Daddy" led the European suckup to the Trump administration.

If even he is flirting with hawkishness, then the weather has definitely changed.

Rutte along with Starmer, Macron and others have been cringe worthy in their dealings with Trump

Stuartinromford · December 11

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Nigelb said:
A timely header.

Though note that Rutte is the one who called Trump "Daddy" led the European suckup to the Trump administration.

If even he is flirting with hawkishness, then the weather has definitely changed.
Rutte along with Starmer, Macron and others have been cringe worthy in their dealings with Trump

In the short term, it was all they could do- sell dignity to buy time.

Questions are whether they have bought enough time and used the time sufficiently well.

Andy_JS · December 11

Election Maps polling average

Ref 29.1%
Con 19.9%
Lab 19.3%
Grn 13.1%
LD 12.9%
SNP 2.9%

https://electionmaps.uk/polling/vi

Big_G_NorthWales · December 11

Stuartinromford said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Nigelb said:
A timely header.

Though note that Rutte is the one who called Trump "Daddy" led the European suckup to the Trump administration.

If even he is flirting with hawkishness, then the weather has definitely changed.
Rutte along with Starmer, Macron and others have been cringe worthy in their dealings with Trump
In the short term, it was all they could do- sell dignity to buy time.

Questions are whether they have bought enough time and used the time sufficiently well.

Clearly they haven't and are effectively rudderless in the face of the impending storm

Stuartinromford · December 11

kle4 said:

MarqueeMark said:

kle4 said:
In all seriousness the USA can no longer be regarded as a reliable ally. Some will welcome that, we need to stand on our own two feet and all that, but the transition from having alignment on most things to being openly treated like dirt by the White House - happily supported by 45-50% of Americans - is a significant change that won't go away when Trump eventually exits.
America was never a "dependable ally". When did it join WW1? WW2? When its trade interests were at risk. The idea of some paternalism by Uncle Sam to help the good people in liberal democracies is so mch BS. They attack to defend the petro-dollar as the world's reserve currency. Otherwise, they sit on their hands. Trump is just an extreme wake-up call to the rest of us.
I think that is a little extreme. By reliable I don't mean that they would have the back of the West in all cases for no benefit of their own, but we could generally expect at least that they would not genuinely prefer authoritarian states to historic democratic allies. Now they do, even if it is not in their favour. Obviously none of that is 100%, history is complicated and shitty things are done to allies from time to time, but there's real antipathy towards places like Canada and the UK that was not being shown before.

As WSC might not have said, "Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted.”

That was then. The current Administration can increasingly be trusted to do the wrong thing.

Nigelb · December 11

.

Omnium said:

Nigelb said:
.
TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
The comparison is foolish.
Suez faced strong domestic opposition, as well as US resistance.
And it was launched without consultation, and directly undermined US foreign policy, at the time of the Soviet action in Hungary.

I don't usually quote Nixon with approval, but this shows just how much worse is the current incumbent.
"We couldn't on one hand, complain about the Soviets intervening in Hungary and, on the other hand, approve of the British and the French picking that particular time to intervene against Nasser".
The very same Nixon who conspired with a foreign power that the US was at war with for his own political convenience?

I'm merely quoting his later analysis.

Nixon was a crook, but the idea that we were "betrayed" by the US is absurd, since we didn't even inform them of what we were going to do.
(Indeed Eden, who seems to have been slightly mad, didn't even tell the British commander of the invasion what its ultimate objective was.)

Andy_JS · December 11

Big_G_NorthWales said:
Agreed and maybe Europe and the UK have taken the US for granted for too long

Goodness only knows where this will end, but it is a sober reminder to the west that they cannot rely on the US, indeed it looks more malign daily

Also Labour still on 14% in this poll and Greens joint 2nd with conservatives

I do not know how anyone can predict the future and certainly not the next few years

Maybe as a non gambler it saves me money but at the same time I am sure astute gamblers will see a good bet at times

https://x.com/i/status/1999160744206606521

I think next year could be a good one for Kemi Badenoch and the Conservatives. Maybe even possibly a chance at going back into the lead in the polls.

Nigelb · December 11

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
How? Suez also had the element of siding with Russia against us, so it can't be that.
I cannot be arsed with your twatabouttery when it comes to this.

Yes, it's wearisome dealing with empty rhetorical jabs.

Foxy · December 11

OldKingCole said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
World Cup ticket prices 'monumental betrayal'
Supporters hoping to attend next year's World Cup final face paying vast prices, with tickets in the 'supporter value tier' starting at £3,119
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c80x38e04yro
Is that for the games in the USA or for all of them?

Apparently England vs Ghana is a bargain £165 for the cheap seats.

Worth noting that the England games are in Dallas, Boston and New Jersy, so a lot of flights needed too.

For comparison my Semi Final tickets for the Russia World Cup were £150.

Big_G_NorthWales · December 11

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
How? Suez also had the element of siding with Russia against us, so it can't be that.
I cannot be arsed with your twatabouttery when it comes to this.

The last time I felt this foreboding was in the Cuban crisis in 1962

Maybe Trump will withdraw from NATO with everything that could follow

At our ages my wife and I look on todays divisions and really do fear for our grandchildren futures

DavidL · December 11

Taz said:

OldKingCole said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
World Cup ticket prices 'monumental betrayal'
Supporters hoping to attend next year's World Cup final face paying vast prices, with tickets in the 'supporter value tier' starting at £3,119
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c80x38e04yro
Is that for the games in the USA or for all of them?
Here’s the prices for the England World Cup soccer matches.

I cannot post the pic as I’ve had mine for the day.

https://x.com/henrywinter/status/1999170720186683430?s=61

Is anybody going to go at these prices to watch something that will be live to air? I think we are going to have a WC of empty stadiums and no atmosphere.

Nigelb · December 11

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
How? Suez also had the element of siding with Russia against us, so it can't be that.
I cannot be arsed with your twatabouttery when it comes to this.
The last time I felt this foreboding was in the Cuban crisis in 1962

Maybe Trump will withdraw from NATO with everything that could follow

At our ages my wife and I look on todays divisions and really do fear for our grandchildren futures

We can barely muster a couple of brigades, let alone divisions.

Foxy · December 11

Stuartinromford said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Nigelb said:
A timely header.

Though note that Rutte is the one who called Trump "Daddy" led the European suckup to the Trump administration.

If even he is flirting with hawkishness, then the weather has definitely changed.
Rutte along with Starmer, Macron and others have been cringe worthy in their dealings with Trump
In the short term, it was all they could do- sell dignity to buy time.

Questions are whether they have bought enough time and used the time sufficiently well.

Chamberlain did rather better, with a comprehensive rearmament programme.

One issue is that a lot of our systems are very dependent on the US. Trident for example.

MarqueeMark · December 11

kle4 said:

MarqueeMark said:

kle4 said:
In all seriousness the USA can no longer be regarded as a reliable ally. Some will welcome that, we need to stand on our own two feet and all that, but the transition from having alignment on most things to being openly treated like dirt by the White House - happily supported by 45-50% of Americans - is a significant change that won't go away when Trump eventually exits.
America was never a "dependable ally". When did it join WW1? WW2? When its trade interests were at risk. The idea of some paternalism by Uncle Sam to help the good people in liberal democracies is so mch BS. They attack to defend the petro-dollar as the world's reserve currency. Otherwise, they sit on their hands. Trump is just an extreme wake-up call to the rest of us.
I think that is a little extreme. By reliable I don't mean that they would have the back of the West in all cases for no benefit of their own, but we could generally expect at least that they would not genuinely prefer authoritarian states to historic democratic allies. Now they do, even if it is not in their favour. Obviously none of that is 100%, history is complicated and shitty things are done to allies from time to time, but there's real antipathy towards places like Canada and the UK that was not being shown before.

The rose-tinted glasses have been firmly stomped on. There is no benefit-of-the-doubt to be given to America.

It will be interesting to see if the post-Trump America chooses to mend fences. And how much damage has been done in the meantime. Trump may rail at the BRICS threat to the use of dollar in international trade. But he is the one taking the Big Enoch hammers to the looms. Idiot.

nico67 · December 11

The BMA should call off the strike . It’s disgraceful to go out on strike when flu admissions are going through the roof . They’ve also purposely dragged their feet on the new offer from Streeting.

It does not take 5 days for resident doctors to fill in an online survey .

Big_G_NorthWales · December 11

Nigelb said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
How? Suez also had the element of siding with Russia against us, so it can't be that.
I cannot be arsed with your twatabouttery when it comes to this.
The last time I felt this foreboding was in the Cuban crisis in 1962

Maybe Trump will withdraw from NATO with everything that could follow

At our ages my wife and I look on todays divisions and really do fear for our grandchildren futures
We can barely muster a couple of brigades, let alone divisions.

My wife and I put our 62 years of marriage down to humour - well spotted

rcs1000 · December 11

MarqueeMark said:

kle4 said:
In all seriousness the USA can no longer be regarded as a reliable ally. Some will welcome that, we need to stand on our own two feet and all that, but the transition from having alignment on most things to being openly treated like dirt by the White House - happily supported by 45-50% of Americans - is a significant change that won't go away when Trump eventually exits.
America was never a "dependable ally". When did it join WW1? WW2? When its trade interests were at risk. The idea of some paternalism by Uncle Sam to help the good people in liberal democracies is so mch BS. They attack to defend the petro-dollar as the world's reserve currency. Otherwise, they sit on their hands. Trump is just an extreme wake-up call to the rest of us.

That does ignore Lend-Lease ahead of their formal entry into the war.

DavidL · December 11

kle4 said:
In all seriousness the USA can no longer be regarded as a reliable ally. Some will welcome that, we need to stand on our own two feet and all that, but the transition from having alignment on most things to being openly treated like dirt by the White House - happily supported by 45-50% of Americans - is a significant change that won't go away when Trump eventually exits.

This is so obvious now it is remarkable that everyone cannot see it. To believe anything else is simply wishful thinking and sentiment on how things used to be.

MarqueeMark · December 11

Andy_JS said:
Election Maps polling average

Ref 29.1%
Con 19.9%
Lab 19.3%
Grn 13.1%
LD 12.9%
SNP 2.9%

https://electionmaps.uk/polling/vi

Tories within 10% of Reform and in second place. A decent placeholder for Kemi at year-end.

rcs1000 · December 11

Omnium said:

Nigelb said:
.
TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
The comparison is foolish.
Suez faced strong domestic opposition, as well as US resistance.
And it was launched without consultation, and directly undermined US foreign policy, at the time of the Soviet action in Hungary.

I don't usually quote Nixon with approval, but this shows just how much worse is the current incumbent.
"We couldn't on one hand, complain about the Soviets intervening in Hungary and, on the other hand, approve of the British and the French picking that particular time to intervene against Nasser".
The very same Nixon who conspired with a foreign power that the US was at war with for his own political convenience?

Technically the US was never at war in Vietnam.

Taz · December 11

DavidL said:

Taz said:

OldKingCole said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
World Cup ticket prices 'monumental betrayal'
Supporters hoping to attend next year's World Cup final face paying vast prices, with tickets in the 'supporter value tier' starting at £3,119
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c80x38e04yro
Is that for the games in the USA or for all of them?
Here’s the prices for the England World Cup soccer matches.

I cannot post the pic as I’ve had mine for the day.

https://x.com/henrywinter/status/1999170720186683430?s=61
Is anybody going to go at these prices to watch something that will be live to air? I think we are going to have a WC of empty stadiums and no atmosphere.

I’d expect if ticket sales are sluggish there will be some pride reductions or seat filling services will be used.

Foxy · December 11

MarqueeMark said:

Andy_JS said:
Election Maps polling average

Ref 29.1%
Con 19.9%
Lab 19.3%
Grn 13.1%
LD 12.9%
SNP 2.9%

https://electionmaps.uk/polling/vi
Tories within 10% of Reform and in second place. A decent placeholder for Kemi at year-end.

Just 4% worse than their worst result in 2 centuries, mid term against an unpopular government.

Yep. Works for me.

Omnium · December 11

rcs1000 said:

Omnium said:

Nigelb said:
.
TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
The comparison is foolish.
Suez faced strong domestic opposition, as well as US resistance.
And it was launched without consultation, and directly undermined US foreign policy, at the time of the Soviet action in Hungary.

I don't usually quote Nixon with approval, but this shows just how much worse is the current incumbent.
"We couldn't on one hand, complain about the Soviets intervening in Hungary and, on the other hand, approve of the British and the French picking that particular time to intervene against Nasser".
The very same Nixon who conspired with a foreign power that the US was at war with for his own political convenience?
Technically the US was never at war in Vietnam.

Hell of a lot of peacetime deaths.

Scott_xP · December 11

‪@jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

The European Union has triggered Article 122 to indefinitely immobilise the assets of the Russian Central Bank, worth a whopping €210 billion.

I explain what just happened and why this is such a big deal for Europeans.

https://bsky.app/profile/jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social/post/3m7q6klczks2w

Foxy · December 11

Taz said:

DavidL said:

Taz said:

OldKingCole said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
World Cup ticket prices 'monumental betrayal'
Supporters hoping to attend next year's World Cup final face paying vast prices, with tickets in the 'supporter value tier' starting at £3,119
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c80x38e04yro
Is that for the games in the USA or for all of them?
Here’s the prices for the England World Cup soccer matches.

I cannot post the pic as I’ve had mine for the day.

https://x.com/henrywinter/status/1999170720186683430?s=61
Is anybody going to go at these prices to watch something that will be live to air? I think we are going to have a WC of empty stadiums and no atmosphere.
I’d expect if ticket sales are sluggish there will be some pride reductions or seat filling services will be used.

In Russia a lot of seats were sold off cheaply to locals. In theory non-transferable, but there were loads on offer from touts at the stadium in St Peterburg. They supposedly had to match the fan ID, but there must have been a get around.

stodge · December 11

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
How? Suez also had the element of siding with Russia against us, so it can't be that.
I cannot be arsed with your twatabouttery when it comes to this.
The last time I felt this foreboding was in the Cuban crisis in 1962

Maybe Trump will withdraw from NATO with everything that could follow

At our ages my wife and I look on todays divisions and really do fear for our grandchildren futures

Yet we face a Russian military which has failed to defeat Ukraine and can't even reach Kharkiv from its own border and we are expected to believe it will roll from Poland to Paris.

That's not to be complacent by any means and the nature of war is evolving (as it always has) and the cyber attack is likely to be the devastating open gambit aimed at paralysing our lives dependent as they are on the "systems" which feed us, clothe us and keep us warm.

Nigelb · December 11

MarqueeMark said:

kle4 said:

MarqueeMark said:

kle4 said:
In all seriousness the USA can no longer be regarded as a reliable ally. Some will welcome that, we need to stand on our own two feet and all that, but the transition from having alignment on most things to being openly treated like dirt by the White House - happily supported by 45-50% of Americans - is a significant change that won't go away when Trump eventually exits.
America was never a "dependable ally". When did it join WW1? WW2? When its trade interests were at risk. The idea of some paternalism by Uncle Sam to help the good people in liberal democracies is so mch BS. They attack to defend the petro-dollar as the world's reserve currency. Otherwise, they sit on their hands. Trump is just an extreme wake-up call to the rest of us.
I think that is a little extreme. By reliable I don't mean that they would have the back of the West in all cases for no benefit of their own, but we could generally expect at least that they would not genuinely prefer authoritarian states to historic democratic allies. Now they do, even if it is not in their favour. Obviously none of that is 100%, history is complicated and shitty things are done to allies from time to time, but there's real antipathy towards places like Canada and the UK that was not being shown before.
The rose-tinted glasses have been firmly stomped on. There is no benefit-of-the-doubt to be given to America.

It will be interesting to see if the post-Trump America chooses to mend fences. And how much damage has been done in the meantime. Trump may rail at the BRICS threat to the use of dollar in international trade. But he is the one taking the Big Enoch hammers to the looms. Idiot.

It's an interesting question.
On the one hand, Trump is now as unpopular as he's ever been, and his betrayal of Ukraine polls even worse. So if MAGA are kicked out eventually, then a shift in policy is fairly likely.

OTOH, trust is lost far more quickly than it is regained. US/European relations have been set back for a decade or more.
Preparing to take care of our own security without the US pretty well ensures that, so big is the necessary adjustment.

MarqueeMark · December 11

rcs1000 said:

MarqueeMark said:

kle4 said:
In all seriousness the USA can no longer be regarded as a reliable ally. Some will welcome that, we need to stand on our own two feet and all that, but the transition from having alignment on most things to being openly treated like dirt by the White House - happily supported by 45-50% of Americans - is a significant change that won't go away when Trump eventually exits.
America was never a "dependable ally". When did it join WW1? WW2? When its trade interests were at risk. The idea of some paternalism by Uncle Sam to help the good people in liberal democracies is so mch BS. They attack to defend the petro-dollar as the world's reserve currency. Otherwise, they sit on their hands. Trump is just an extreme wake-up call to the rest of us.
That does ignore Lend-Lease ahead of their formal entry into the war.

Lend-Lease was described on its face as "An Act to Promote the Interests of the United States".

Self-interest. A mean for America keeping its people employed.

And don't forget, Reverse Lend-Lease to the United States totalled $7.8 billion. Of this, $6.8 billion came from the British and the Commonwealth.

Nigelb · December 11

MarqueeMark said:

rcs1000 said:

MarqueeMark said:

kle4 said:
In all seriousness the USA can no longer be regarded as a reliable ally. Some will welcome that, we need to stand on our own two feet and all that, but the transition from having alignment on most things to being openly treated like dirt by the White House - happily supported by 45-50% of Americans - is a significant change that won't go away when Trump eventually exits.
America was never a "dependable ally". When did it join WW1? WW2? When its trade interests were at risk. The idea of some paternalism by Uncle Sam to help the good people in liberal democracies is so mch BS. They attack to defend the petro-dollar as the world's reserve currency. Otherwise, they sit on their hands. Trump is just an extreme wake-up call to the rest of us.
That does ignore Lend-Lease ahead of their formal entry into the war.
Lend-Lease was described on its face as "An Act to Promote the Interests of the United States".

Self-interest. A mean for America keeping its people employed.

And don't forget, Reverse Lend-Lease to the United States totalled $7.8 billion. Of this, $6.8 billion came from the British and the Commonwealth.

And it's a small but significant part of what led to postwar US tech dominance.
We opened the books on our biggest technical secrets in exchange for aid.

Omnium · December 11

Nigelb said:
.
Omnium said:

Nigelb said:
.
TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
The comparison is foolish.
Suez faced strong domestic opposition, as well as US resistance.
And it was launched without consultation, and directly undermined US foreign policy, at the time of the Soviet action in Hungary.

I don't usually quote Nixon with approval, but this shows just how much worse is the current incumbent.
"We couldn't on one hand, complain about the Soviets intervening in Hungary and, on the other hand, approve of the British and the French picking that particular time to intervene against Nasser".
The very same Nixon who conspired with a foreign power that the US was at war with for his own political convenience?
I'm merely quoting his later analysis.

Nixon was a crook, but the idea that we were "betrayed" by the US is absurd, since we didn't even inform them of what we were going to do.
(Indeed Eden, who seems to have been slightly mad, didn't even tell the British commander of the invasion what its ultimate objective was.)

Let us say that the US when asked to choose has been a rather unreliable ally since WW2. Suez and the Falklands hardly show the alliance at its most aligned.

MarqueeMark · December 11

Foxy said:

MarqueeMark said:

Andy_JS said:
Election Maps polling average

Ref 29.1%
Con 19.9%
Lab 19.3%
Grn 13.1%
LD 12.9%
SNP 2.9%

https://electionmaps.uk/polling/vi
Tories within 10% of Reform and in second place. A decent placeholder for Kemi at year-end.
Just 4% worse than their worst result in 2 centuries, mid term against an unpopular government.

Yep. Works for me.

Yet now ahead of the Labour Party who whooped the Tories' asses just 17 months ago.

If Reform have a big issue along the road, watch that gap widen.

(I'm liking the notion of Farage getting clobbered - and ending up selling the Big Issue...)

williamglenn · December 11

Nigelb said:
.
Omnium said:

Nigelb said:
.
TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
The comparison is foolish.
Suez faced strong domestic opposition, as well as US resistance.
And it was launched without consultation, and directly undermined US foreign policy, at the time of the Soviet action in Hungary.

I don't usually quote Nixon with approval, but this shows just how much worse is the current incumbent.
"We couldn't on one hand, complain about the Soviets intervening in Hungary and, on the other hand, approve of the British and the French picking that particular time to intervene against Nasser".
The very same Nixon who conspired with a foreign power that the US was at war with for his own political convenience?
I'm merely quoting his later analysis.

Nixon was a crook, but the idea that we were "betrayed" by the US is absurd, since we didn't even inform them of what we were going to do.
(Indeed Eden, who seems to have been slightly mad, didn't even tell the British commander of the invasion what its ultimate objective was.)

I didn't suggest that we were betrayed, just that they weren't on our side.

A lot of the recent muddled thinking on foreign policy seems to come from the idea that Team West is a monolith with identical interests and an ideological conception of the world and that any deviation from this is some kind of betrayal.

Andy_JS · December 11

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.

Not true. The US is not our enemy.

Foxy · December 11

MarqueeMark said:

Foxy said:

MarqueeMark said:

Andy_JS said:
Election Maps polling average

Ref 29.1%
Con 19.9%
Lab 19.3%
Grn 13.1%
LD 12.9%
SNP 2.9%

https://electionmaps.uk/polling/vi
Tories within 10% of Reform and in second place. A decent placeholder for Kemi at year-end.
Just 4% worse than their worst result in 2 centuries, mid term against an unpopular government.

Yep. Works for me.
Yet now ahead of the Labour Party who whooped the Tories' asses just 17 months ago.

If Reform have a big issue along the road, watch that gap widen.

(I'm liking the notion of Farage getting clobbered - and ending up selling the Big Issue...)

Those polling figures have the Tories losing about half their seats, and possibly 4th in terms of MPs.

boulay · December 11

I think Jim Millar is our only remaining American poster - it would be interesting to hear his thoughts on this new schism between the US and Europe and, even if annecdotal, whether he has had many discussions with friends about it?

Also obvs RCS must have this conversation occasionally with his American colleagues and friends?

It seems like the IS is sleepwalking into a world where, whilst it’s bad for us, it will be worse for the US as it will be the nail in their position as leader of the free world, the world’s policeman, top nation and the soft power benefits that brings.

TimS · December 11

stodge said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
How? Suez also had the element of siding with Russia against us, so it can't be that.
I cannot be arsed with your twatabouttery when it comes to this.
The last time I felt this foreboding was in the Cuban crisis in 1962

Maybe Trump will withdraw from NATO with everything that could follow

At our ages my wife and I look on todays divisions and really do fear for our grandchildren futures
Yet we face a Russian military which has failed to defeat Ukraine and can't even reach Kharkiv from its own border and we are expected to believe it will roll from Poland to Paris.

That's not to be complacent by any means and the nature of war is evolving (as it always has) and the cyber attack is likely to be the devastating open gambit aimed at paralysing our lives dependent as they are on the "systems" which feed us, clothe us and keep us warm.

That’s why I think it’s best to think of Russia as what it is: a hybrid entity combining aspects of terrorism and aspects of international organised crime.

It doesn’t have the wherewithal to invade and annex large swathes of Eastern Europe, but it has the same ability that various Mafias, Al Qaeda, IS and others have had to make life unpleasant and investment uncertain in the countries it chooses to target.

Imagine we’re Mexico and it’s a drugs cartel. Similar dynamic.

Nigelb · December 11

This is a fascinating study demonstrating that psilocybin use rewires neural connections on a significant scale - and mainly in regions of the brain most in use at the time of its administration.

Psilocybin triggers an activity-dependent rewiring of large-scale cortical networks
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(25)01305-4

The implications for therapeutic use look to be considerable.
(Though note it's only demonstrated in mice for now.)

Malmesbury · December 11

Nigelb said:
FPT
Malmesbury said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

Nigelb said:

Dura_Ace said:

Nigelb said:
Your daily Ajax.

https://x.com/MilitaryBanter/status/1999095846353121456
Detailed Employee Account: Systemic Issues within the General Dynamics Ajax Programme

As a long-serving General Dynamics employee working directly on the Ajax vehicle programme, I feel compelled to document the profound systemic and cultural failures I have witnessed. My surprise is not that the programme has encountered technical challenges, but that the sheer scale and nature of the issues—many stemming from managerial pressure and a culture of corner-cutting—have not been brought to light earlier in a meaningful way.

The problems extend far beyond design flaws. On the shop floor, we operate under intense pressure from management to meet deadlines, often at the expense of procedure and safety. The prevailing directive from certain managers is to "just make it fit," with instructions to "do what you got to do—grind it, cut it, hammer it in, or boot it." This ethos of force-fitting components directly contradicts engineering standards and creates inherent vulnerabilities in the vehicle's integrity.

I have observed managers and quality personnel witnessing these practices without intervention, effectively endorsing them. Specific, recurring failures include:

· Critical Safety Omissions: Armour bolts left unfitted behind the VIP bin, compromising ballistic protection.
· Persistent Functional Failures: The driver's hatch mechanism continues to fail despite being a known, long-standing issue.
· Chronic Leaks: Fuel and hydraulic leaks are commonplace, indicating persistent sealing or subsystem integration problems.
· Falsified Safety Records: Most alarmingly, I have seen safety notices stamped off as completed. Upon physical verification, the required work had not been done. A grave example is within the Ajax battery compartment, a high-risk area that remains live even after isolation. Signing off on unperformed work here is not just negligent; it is dangerously irresponsible.

The logistical and support side of the programme is equally broken. We face severe parts shortages. To keep the current production line moving, we have been systematically cannibalising vehicles from a storage fleet of approximately 50 trucks in Llanelli. These vehicles haven't been started in years, their batteries are long dead, and we strip them for components because new parts are simply unavailable. This is not sustainable manufacturing; it is a desperate and inefficient salvage operation that underscores a profound failure in supply chain management.

Perhaps most disheartening is the cultural corrosion. A specific example that shocked me was witnessing a former 2ic (second-in-command) at the Merthyr site rapidly abandon his principles upon accepting a managerial position within General Dynamics...
Sounds to me like GDLS are cutting through all of the "process state" bullshit so detested by our right wing chums on here.

Also, any suggestion that we increase defence spending should just be met with the word, "Ajax."
The second bit of that's a non sequitur.
It's an argument for stopping fucking up, not giving up entirely. Though some will make that argument.

The reality is that the government is pretty resistant to increasing defence spending anyway - which partly explains the reluctance to acknowledge disastrous failures in procurement, and write off large chunks of the billions we've spent,
And when they do spend it’s all about the jobs, not what they are buying.

Ajax was about 700 jobs in Wales. A million per worker, in cash, would have been an order of magnitude cheaper.
Still is, if you listen to the local MPs.
(There are probably a few thousand more jobs across the UK involved in the supply chain - but that would have been the same if they'd picked the BAE CV90 back in 2010/12.)

I get the impression that one of the the reasons GDLS got the contract was related to the tactical comms system they supply with it (which if had been delivered a decade ago might have been state of the art). It certainly made no sense at all to award a production contract to an unproven platform which have to be heavily modified to meet UK requirements.

I wouldn't suggest an enquiry, as we wouldn't learn anything for a decade, if then, but the entire program seems to be an object lesson in how not to do defence procurement.
“heavily modified to meet UK requirements.”

Why are our requirements different to the CV90? Which has been destroying T-90 tanks in Ukraine (auto cannon vs turret ring)

Essentially, they aren't.
CV90 was pretty well ready just to manufacture.
All BAE needed to do was build a plant in the UK (Newcastle was their proposal).

As I said, I think the MoD just assumed that a heavily modified Spanish platform which wasn't even built in Spain, let alone the UK, would work.

Note it was planned to integrate the (then) fancy new battlefield comms system 'Morpheus'.
That's since been cancelled, and we're falling back on the old Bowman system (produced by GDLS UK).

Meanwhile, the Ukrainians forgot to include inter service rivalry and created a system that maps out targets on the battlefield and invites anyone to have a wack - infantry, airforce, artillery etc.

Nigelb · December 11

boulay said:
I think Jim Millar is our only remaining American poster - it would be interesting to hear his thoughts on this new schism between the US and Europe and, even if annecdotal, whether he has had many discussions with friends about it?

Also obvs RCS must have this conversation occasionally with his American colleagues and friends?

It seems like the IS is sleepwalking into a world where, whilst it’s bad for us, it will be worse for the US as it will be the nail in their position as leader of the free world, the world’s policeman, top nation and the soft power benefits that brings.

What happened to @SeaShantyIrish2 ?

Luckyguy1983 · December 11

Nigelb said:

MarqueeMark said:

rcs1000 said:

MarqueeMark said:

kle4 said:
In all seriousness the USA can no longer be regarded as a reliable ally. Some will welcome that, we need to stand on our own two feet and all that, but the transition from having alignment on most things to being openly treated like dirt by the White House - happily supported by 45-50% of Americans - is a significant change that won't go away when Trump eventually exits.
America was never a "dependable ally". When did it join WW1? WW2? When its trade interests were at risk. The idea of some paternalism by Uncle Sam to help the good people in liberal democracies is so mch BS. They attack to defend the petro-dollar as the world's reserve currency. Otherwise, they sit on their hands. Trump is just an extreme wake-up call to the rest of us.
That does ignore Lend-Lease ahead of their formal entry into the war.
Lend-Lease was described on its face as "An Act to Promote the Interests of the United States".

Self-interest. A mean for America keeping its people employed.

And don't forget, Reverse Lend-Lease to the United States totalled $7.8 billion. Of this, $6.8 billion came from the British and the Commonwealth.
And it's a small but significant part of what led to postwar US tech dominance.
We opened the books on our biggest technical secrets in exchange for aid.

Quite. Just gave them the jet engine afaicr.

Over the course of the wars, we sold ourselves into servitude. It has been deeply damaging, and there's been a wall of silence about it - on PB as much as anywhere else.

boulay · December 11

Nigelb said:

boulay said:
I think Jim Millar is our only remaining American poster - it would be interesting to hear his thoughts on this new schism between the US and Europe and, even if annecdotal, whether he has had many discussions with friends about it?

Also obvs RCS must have this conversation occasionally with his American colleagues and friends?

It seems like the IS is sleepwalking into a world where, whilst it’s bad for us, it will be worse for the US as it will be the nail in their position as leader of the free world, the world’s policeman, top nation and the soft power benefits that brings.

What happened to @SeaShantyIrish2 ?

I asked a while ago mistakenly thinking he was a friend of Jim Millar (he wasn’t) and he vanished after the Trump win. I hope he didn’t have an aneurism over it.

Shame, especially now, we don’t have more American posters.

Foxy · December 11

stodge said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
How? Suez also had the element of siding with Russia against us, so it can't be that.
I cannot be arsed with your twatabouttery when it comes to this.
The last time I felt this foreboding was in the Cuban crisis in 1962

Maybe Trump will withdraw from NATO with everything that could follow

At our ages my wife and I look on todays divisions and really do fear for our grandchildren futures
Yet we face a Russian military which has failed to defeat Ukraine and can't even reach Kharkiv from its own border and we are expected to believe it will roll from Poland to Paris.

That's not to be complacent by any means and the nature of war is evolving (as it always has) and the cyber attack is likely to be the devastating open gambit aimed at paralysing our lives dependent as they are on the "systems" which feed us, clothe us and keep us warm.

Yes, clearly the threat from Russia is more subtle than an armed invasion. Their military cannot take a Dontesk mining town, and its Black Sea fleet is had to retreat from a country with no navy. Its airforce launches stand off missiles from well within Russia because it cannot get air supremacy even over Ukraine.

The threat is Cyberwarfare, drones (like we have seen in a number of recent incidents here and in Ireland, and most of all from corrupt/traitorous British politicians.

It is GCHQ that needs investment more than the formal military.

Nigelb · December 11

Malmesbury said:

Nigelb said:
FPT
Malmesbury said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

Nigelb said:

Dura_Ace said:

Nigelb said:
Your daily Ajax.

https://x.com/MilitaryBanter/status/1999095846353121456
Detailed Employee Account: Systemic Issues within the General Dynamics Ajax Programme

As a long-serving General Dynamics employee working directly on the Ajax vehicle programme, I feel compelled to document the profound systemic and cultural failures I have witnessed. My surprise is not that the programme has encountered technical challenges, but that the sheer scale and nature of the issues—many stemming from managerial pressure and a culture of corner-cutting—have not been brought to light earlier in a meaningful way.

The problems extend far beyond design flaws. On the shop floor, we operate under intense pressure from management to meet deadlines, often at the expense of procedure and safety. The prevailing directive from certain managers is to "just make it fit," with instructions to "do what you got to do—grind it, cut it, hammer it in, or boot it." This ethos of force-fitting components directly contradicts engineering standards and creates inherent vulnerabilities in the vehicle's integrity.

I have observed managers and quality personnel witnessing these practices without intervention, effectively endorsing them. Specific, recurring failures include:

· Critical Safety Omissions: Armour bolts left unfitted behind the VIP bin, compromising ballistic protection.
· Persistent Functional Failures: The driver's hatch mechanism continues to fail despite being a known, long-standing issue.
· Chronic Leaks: Fuel and hydraulic leaks are commonplace, indicating persistent sealing or subsystem integration problems.
· Falsified Safety Records: Most alarmingly, I have seen safety notices stamped off as completed. Upon physical verification, the required work had not been done. A grave example is within the Ajax battery compartment, a high-risk area that remains live even after isolation. Signing off on unperformed work here is not just negligent; it is dangerously irresponsible.

The logistical and support side of the programme is equally broken. We face severe parts shortages. To keep the current production line moving, we have been systematically cannibalising vehicles from a storage fleet of approximately 50 trucks in Llanelli. These vehicles haven't been started in years, their batteries are long dead, and we strip them for components because new parts are simply unavailable. This is not sustainable manufacturing; it is a desperate and inefficient salvage operation that underscores a profound failure in supply chain management.

Perhaps most disheartening is the cultural corrosion. A specific example that shocked me was witnessing a former 2ic (second-in-command) at the Merthyr site rapidly abandon his principles upon accepting a managerial position within General Dynamics...
Sounds to me like GDLS are cutting through all of the "process state" bullshit so detested by our right wing chums on here.

Also, any suggestion that we increase defence spending should just be met with the word, "Ajax."
The second bit of that's a non sequitur.
It's an argument for stopping fucking up, not giving up entirely. Though some will make that argument.

The reality is that the government is pretty resistant to increasing defence spending anyway - which partly explains the reluctance to acknowledge disastrous failures in procurement, and write off large chunks of the billions we've spent,
And when they do spend it’s all about the jobs, not what they are buying.

Ajax was about 700 jobs in Wales. A million per worker, in cash, would have been an order of magnitude cheaper.
Still is, if you listen to the local MPs.
(There are probably a few thousand more jobs across the UK involved in the supply chain - but that would have been the same if they'd picked the BAE CV90 back in 2010/12.)

I get the impression that one of the the reasons GDLS got the contract was related to the tactical comms system they supply with it (which if had been delivered a decade ago might have been state of the art). It certainly made no sense at all to award a production contract to an unproven platform which have to be heavily modified to meet UK requirements.

I wouldn't suggest an enquiry, as we wouldn't learn anything for a decade, if then, but the entire program seems to be an object lesson in how not to do defence procurement.
“heavily modified to meet UK requirements.”

Why are our requirements different to the CV90? Which has been destroying T-90 tanks in Ukraine (auto cannon vs turret ring)

Essentially, they aren't.
CV90 was pretty well ready just to manufacture.
All BAE needed to do was build a plant in the UK (Newcastle was their proposal).

As I said, I think the MoD just assumed that a heavily modified Spanish platform which wasn't even built in Spain, let alone the UK, would work.

Note it was planned to integrate the (then) fancy new battlefield comms system 'Morpheus'.
That's since been cancelled, and we're falling back on the old Bowman system (produced by GDLS UK).
Meanwhile, the Ukrainians forgot to include inter service rivalry and created a system that maps out targets on the battlefield and invites anyone to have a wack - infantry, airforce, artillery etc.

Yes, that occurred to me too.
Our "world beating" system is about a decade out of date.

Luckyguy1983 · December 11

boulay said:

Nigelb said:

boulay said:
I think Jim Millar is our only remaining American poster - it would be interesting to hear his thoughts on this new schism between the US and Europe and, even if annecdotal, whether he has had many discussions with friends about it?

Also obvs RCS must have this conversation occasionally with his American colleagues and friends?

It seems like the IS is sleepwalking into a world where, whilst it’s bad for us, it will be worse for the US as it will be the nail in their position as leader of the free world, the world’s policeman, top nation and the soft power benefits that brings.

What happened to @SeaShantyIrish2 ?

I asked a while ago mistakenly thinking he was a friend of Jim Millar (he wasn’t) and he vanished after the Trump win. I hope he didn’t have an aneurism over it.

Shame, especially now, we don’t have more American posters.

It is a shame - he would be having enormous fun over the 'sage of Mar-a-Lardo' as he used to call Trump. He was very witty. Once called Leon (who I also miss) 'our peripathetic writer' which is very good.

Sandpit · December 11

DecrepiterJohnL said:
World Cup ticket prices 'monumental betrayal'
Supporters hoping to attend next year's World Cup final face paying vast prices, with tickets in the 'supporter value tier' starting at £3,119
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c80x38e04yro

Those buying tickets to the final before they know the teams competing, are people wanting to tick off a bucket-list item who are unlikely to be particularly price-sensitive.

We underestimate the population of the US, and their ability to fill out stadia for pretty much anything at astonishing prices.

Super Bowl tickets and WC final tickets sell for this sort of money on secondary markets anyway, so why not set the price appropriately in the first place?

kinabalu · December 11

If a malign superpower intent on fracturing Europe into a ratbag of far right ethno-nationalistic regimes isn't an enemy I don't know what one is. And then on top of that there's Russia. Stealers Wheel comes to mind when thinking about the UK and the EU. We must unite and stake our place in this world. C'mon Europe. C'mon us. We can do it.

boulay · December 11

Foxy said:

stodge said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
How? Suez also had the element of siding with Russia against us, so it can't be that.
I cannot be arsed with your twatabouttery when it comes to this.
The last time I felt this foreboding was in the Cuban crisis in 1962

Maybe Trump will withdraw from NATO with everything that could follow

At our ages my wife and I look on todays divisions and really do fear for our grandchildren futures
Yet we face a Russian military which has failed to defeat Ukraine and can't even reach Kharkiv from its own border and we are expected to believe it will roll from Poland to Paris.

That's not to be complacent by any means and the nature of war is evolving (as it always has) and the cyber attack is likely to be the devastating open gambit aimed at paralysing our lives dependent as they are on the "systems" which feed us, clothe us and keep us warm.
Yes, clearly the threat from Russia is more subtle than an armed invasion. Their military cannot take a Dontesk mining town, and its Black Sea fleet is had to retreat from a country with no navy. Its airforce launches stand off missiles from well within Russia because it cannot get air supremacy even over Ukraine.

The threat is Cyberwarfare, drones (like we have seen in a number of recent incidents here and in Ireland, and most of all from corrupt/traitorous British politicians.

It is GCHQ that needs investment more than the formal military.

I still think we should be setting up a “fourth service” alongside Army, Navy, RAF recruiting the young who are very tech proficient where they can join up but they aren’t doing drill, yomping, shooting etc. Theor role would be purely, using their gaming skills, sitting in offices somewhere near critical infrastructure operating drones to counter other drones.

They can test and develop new kit and not only provide a good home line of defence but also build a basis for better projected drone tech.

By setting them up outside of the traditional services you might make it more attractive to some than full military but they get to do things they love and serve and don’t have to worry about fitness tests and living in barracks.

It’s obviously not fully thought out but surely it’s a good way of boosting capability in a different world we live in now.

solarflare · December 11

Andy_JS said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Not true. The US is not our enemy.

Yet.

Northern_Al · December 11

nico67 said:
The BMA should call off the strike . It’s disgraceful to go out on strike when flu admissions are going through the roof . They’ve also purposely dragged their feet on the new offer from Streeting.

It does not take 5 days for resident doctors to fill in an online survey .

They need 4 days to decipher what the doctors have written on the survey.

Scott_xP · December 11

@JakeSherman

44 present so far on the motion to table Trump impeachment. Jeffries, Clark and Aguilar all voting present.

237-140-47

The house has tabled motion to impeach Trump.

https://x.com/JakeSherman/status/1999194714453516642?s=20

Luckyguy1983 · December 11

The junior doctors are really biting the hand that feeds aren't they?

boulay · December 11

boulay said:

Foxy said:

stodge said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
How? Suez also had the element of siding with Russia against us, so it can't be that.
I cannot be arsed with your twatabouttery when it comes to this.
The last time I felt this foreboding was in the Cuban crisis in 1962

Maybe Trump will withdraw from NATO with everything that could follow

At our ages my wife and I look on todays divisions and really do fear for our grandchildren futures
Yet we face a Russian military which has failed to defeat Ukraine and can't even reach Kharkiv from its own border and we are expected to believe it will roll from Poland to Paris.

That's not to be complacent by any means and the nature of war is evolving (as it always has) and the cyber attack is likely to be the devastating open gambit aimed at paralysing our lives dependent as they are on the "systems" which feed us, clothe us and keep us warm.
Yes, clearly the threat from Russia is more subtle than an armed invasion. Their military cannot take a Dontesk mining town, and its Black Sea fleet is had to retreat from a country with no navy. Its airforce launches stand off missiles from well within Russia because it cannot get air supremacy even over Ukraine.

The threat is Cyberwarfare, drones (like we have seen in a number of recent incidents here and in Ireland, and most of all from corrupt/traitorous British politicians.

It is GCHQ that needs investment more than the formal military.
I still think we should be setting up a “fourth service” alongside Army, Navy, RAF recruiting the young who are very tech proficient where they can join up but they aren’t doing drill, yomping, shooting etc. Theor role would be purely, using their gaming skills, sitting in offices somewhere near critical infrastructure operating drones to counter other drones.

They can test and develop new kit and not only provide a good home line of defence but also build a basis for better projected drone tech.

By setting them up outside of the traditional services you might make it more attractive to some than full military but they get to do things they love and serve and don’t have to worry about fitness tests and living in barracks.

It’s obviously not fully thought out but surely it’s a good way of boosting capability in a different world we live in now.

I also think they should expand the age range for joining the TA. There are probably quite a few people over the cut off now who might consider it. I tried earlier this year to join our Militia which acts as a RE field squadron and saw a lot of service in Afghanistan and Iraq as they are good at what they do.

I’m fit and still remember weirdly how to strip an SA80 or a LSW, remember basic infantry tactics and would be happy to do it - there are likely plenty of fit people 48 up who would be every bit as useful rather than an arbitrary cut off age.

Sunil_Prasannan · December 11

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?

Dumbass Colonists!

glw · December 11

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?

Yes. The US is now aligned with a nation that threatens us continuously. We should be preparing today for the US to leave NATO. We should expect that in time that US will be actively hostile to most European nations including the UK.

Burgessian · December 11

kle4 said:
In all seriousness the USA can no longer be regarded as a reliable ally. Some will welcome that, we need to stand on our own two feet and all that, but the transition from having alignment on most things to being openly treated like dirt by the White House - happily supported by 45-50% of Americans - is a significant change that won't go away when Trump eventually exits.

Hmm.

The way I look at it is that there are, broadly, three parties at play now.

1. The Right of Centre
2. The Left of Centre
3. The Oligarchs snd their proxies

The latter are in charge in the US, Russia and a few of the smaller EU countries. Their enablers include Murdoch and aligned media, the TechBros, and the various unedifying hanger-ons like Witkoff who see everything as a deal. The culture stuff is to distract the masses fed by their social media.

This is admittedly broadbrush. Lots of nuances etc. Lots of rivalries and fallings out. But I find it helpful in trying to understand what is happening.

OldKingCole · December 11

Andy_JS said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Not true. The US is not our enemy.

Are you sure? Many of the people might not be but the President…….. ?

Sunil_Prasannan · December 11

Andy_JS said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Not true. The US is not our enemy.

Yes they are.

boulay · December 11

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Andy_JS said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Not true. The US is not our enemy.
Yes they are.

They might not be our enemy but they are no longer Europe’s friend.

Malmesbury · December 11

boulay said:

Foxy said:

stodge said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes.
How? Suez also had the element of siding with Russia against us, so it can't be that.
I cannot be arsed with your twatabouttery when it comes to this.
The last time I felt this foreboding was in the Cuban crisis in 1962

Maybe Trump will withdraw from NATO with everything that could follow

At our ages my wife and I look on todays divisions and really do fear for our grandchildren futures
Yet we face a Russian military which has failed to defeat Ukraine and can't even reach Kharkiv from its own border and we are expected to believe it will roll from Poland to Paris.

That's not to be complacent by any means and the nature of war is evolving (as it always has) and the cyber attack is likely to be the devastating open gambit aimed at paralysing our lives dependent as they are on the "systems" which feed us, clothe us and keep us warm.
Yes, clearly the threat from Russia is more subtle than an armed invasion. Their military cannot take a Dontesk mining town, and its Black Sea fleet is had to retreat from a country with no navy. Its airforce launches stand off missiles from well within Russia because it cannot get air supremacy even over Ukraine.

The threat is Cyberwarfare, drones (like we have seen in a number of recent incidents here and in Ireland, and most of all from corrupt/traitorous British politicians.

It is GCHQ that needs investment more than the formal military.
I still think we should be setting up a “fourth service” alongside Army, Navy, RAF recruiting the young who are very tech proficient where they can join up but they aren’t doing drill, yomping, shooting etc. Theor role would be purely, using their gaming skills, sitting in offices somewhere near critical infrastructure operating drones to counter other drones.

They can test and develop new kit and not only provide a good home line of defence but also build a basis for better projected drone tech.

By setting them up outside of the traditional services you might make it more attractive to some than full military but they get to do things they love and serve and don’t have to worry about fitness tests and living in barracks.

It’s obviously not fully thought out but surely it’s a good way of boosting capability in a different world we live in now.

Apparently, some Western special forces (“observing in Ukraine”) got upset when the Ukrainian special forces started embedding people in their units who were unfit nerds (drones) or greybeards (various skills)

The Ukranians took the approach of using such people in vehicle borne attacks or in suppprt on the front lines.

But the myth of everyone has to be able to run 40km carrying 40kg dies hard…

nico67 · December 11

Luckyguy1983 said:
The junior doctors are really biting the hand that feeds aren't they?

I think their behaviour has been outrageous . They know full well that the government doesn’t have any more money for a wage increase . There are many workers that would like to see their salaries recover from 2008 . They got close to 30% over 2 years and have chucked that in the face of the government.

Carnyx · December 11

nico67 said:
The BMA should call off the strike . It’s disgraceful to go out on strike when flu admissions are going through the roof . They’ve also purposely dragged their feet on the new offer from Streeting.

It does not take 5 days for resident doctors to fill in an online survey .

Legal requirements, surely? Placed IIRC by a Conservative government.

Malmesbury · December 11

nico67 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
The junior doctors are really biting the hand that feeds aren't they?
I think their behaviour has been outrageous . They know full well that the government doesn’t have any more money for a wage increase . There are many workers that would like to see their salaries recover from 2008 . They got close to 30% over 2 years and have chucked that in the face of the government.

I seem to recall someone suggested standing up to their demands - Sunny? Sunax? Something like that.

He did say that if you gave in, they would be back for more.

Taz · December 11

nico67 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
The junior doctors are really biting the hand that feeds aren't they?
I think their behaviour has been outrageous . They know full well that the government doesn’t have any more money for a wage increase . There are many workers that would like to see their salaries recover from 2008 . They got close to 30% over 2 years and have chucked that in the face of the government.

I don’t blame them trying to rinse the govt for more. Why wouldn’t they ? The govt folded like a deck of cards, caved in, gave them what they wanted for nothing in return. Of course they will come back for more.

HYUFD · December 11

For now even nationalist European leaders like Meloni are anti Putin. If Bardella and the AfD got in that migjt create a pro Russian axis with Hungary. By then though a Democrat might have been elected US President again

glw · December 11

Malmesbury said:

nico67 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
The junior doctors are really biting the hand that feeds aren't they?
I think their behaviour has been outrageous . They know full well that the government doesn’t have any more money for a wage increase . There are many workers that would like to see their salaries recover from 2008 . They got close to 30% over 2 years and have chucked that in the face of the government.
I seem to recall someone suggested standing up to their demands - Sunny? Sunax? Something like that.

He did say that if you gave in, they would be back for more.

If you can ignore the cost it's quite amusing to listen to Labour ministers voicing the same complaints and sounding as exasperated as their Tory predecessors.

Nigelb · December 11

Interesting that at least one Labour minister is following the Ajax stuff on X.
And can react quite quickly.

Just on this, @AlistairCarns reached out privately, and the individual is being taken care of.
https://x.com/MilitaryBanter/status/1999181548063719871

Taz · December 11

Luckyguy1983 said:
The junior doctors are really biting the hand that feeds aren't they?

Given the money the hand that feeds lavished on them previously they were always going to come back for more with their tried and tested ‘we only want ‘x’ an hour and a plumber gets £50 an hour schtick.

Carnyx · December 11

https://www.thenational.scot/news/25691415.john-curtice-gives-verdict-poll-predicts-pro-independence-majority/

In re prsevious thread: the blessed Professor Curtis has spoken.

Basically much as before, only Labour going down more quickly.

Malmesbury · December 11

glw said:

Malmesbury said:

nico67 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
The junior doctors are really biting the hand that feeds aren't they?
I think their behaviour has been outrageous . They know full well that the government doesn’t have any more money for a wage increase . There are many workers that would like to see their salaries recover from 2008 . They got close to 30% over 2 years and have chucked that in the face of the government.
I seem to recall someone suggested standing up to their demands - Sunny? Sunax? Something like that.

He did say that if you gave in, they would be back for more.
If you can ignore the cost it's quite amusing to listen to Labour ministers voicing the same complaints and sounding as exasperated as their Tory predecessors.

Tony Blair & Co. went from criticising banning Gerry Adams from speaking to wanting indefinite internment without trial. In a couple of years.

williamglenn · December 11

glw said:

williamglenn said:

OldKingCole said:
When I were a lad, we were told that Russia was our enemy and the USA was our friend. Some of us thought that wasn’t true, but I never thought I’d see the day when they were both our enemies.
Is America more of an enemy than it was during the Suez crisis?
Yes. The US is now aligned with a nation that threatens us continuously. We should be preparing today for the US to leave NATO. We should expect that in time that US will be actively hostile to most European nations including the UK.

If you put the rhetoric to one side, they're no more aligned with Russia than continental European countries were when they were busy building Nordsteam and filling the Russian elite's bank accounts.

It would be a big mistake to regard a less ideological America as an enemy.

noneoftheabove · December 11

DavidL said:

Taz said:

OldKingCole said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
World Cup ticket prices 'monumental betrayal'
Supporters hoping to attend next year's World Cup final face paying vast prices, with tickets in the 'supporter value tier' starting at £3,119
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c80x38e04yro
Is that for the games in the USA or for all of them?
Here’s the prices for the England World Cup soccer matches.

I cannot post the pic as I’ve had mine for the day.

https://x.com/henrywinter/status/1999170720186683430?s=61
Is anybody going to go at these prices to watch something that will be live to air? I think we are going to have a WC of empty stadiums and no atmosphere.

Isn't the pricing dynamic? So goes down if not selling or up if going quicker than needed?

boulay · December 11

HYUFD said:
For now even nationalist European leaders like Meloni are anti Putin. If Bardella and the AfD got in that migjt create a pro Russian axis with Hungary. By then though a Democrat might have been elected US President again

I wouldn’t put hopes on a Democrat being President and having another shift from Trumpism - they might get in and think that the costs and risks of focussing on Europe aren’t worth it and the damage is permanent.

Sadly I think there has been an irreversible shift. Europe as a continent needs to get its confidence back - you think that three European nations once ruked most of the world. There is a huge cultural soft power and a huge financial strength. They can play the US v China. Decoupling from the US also gives options globally wheee we aren’t the US lapdogs. There are potential positives but as I said, Europe has to get its confidence back and use its financial and soft power muscles to not be top dog but powerful and influential.

Maybe a UN equivalent of the UN with all European nations rather than the EU is needed.

kinabalu · December 11

Luckyguy1983 said:
The junior doctors are really biting the hand that feeds aren't they?

The survey says no? Gosh. I was expecting a yes.

noneoftheabove · December 11

Malmesbury said:

nico67 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
The junior doctors are really biting the hand that feeds aren't they?
I think their behaviour has been outrageous . They know full well that the government doesn’t have any more money for a wage increase . There are many workers that would like to see their salaries recover from 2008 . They got close to 30% over 2 years and have chucked that in the face of the government.
I seem to recall someone suggested standing up to their demands - Sunny? Sunax? Something like that.

He did say that if you gave in, they would be back for more.

Is that the chap who was paying them £3k per shift as agency workers covering strikes to avoid a £3k per year payrise?

Malmesbury · December 11

noneoftheabove said:

Malmesbury said:

nico67 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
The junior doctors are really biting the hand that feeds aren't they?
I think their behaviour has been outrageous . They know full well that the government doesn’t have any more money for a wage increase . There are many workers that would like to see their salaries recover from 2008 . They got close to 30% over 2 years and have chucked that in the face of the government.
I seem to recall someone suggested standing up to their demands - Sunny? Sunax? Something like that.

He did say that if you gave in, they would be back for more.
Is that the chap who was paying them £3k per shift as agency workers covering strikes to avoid a £3k per year payrise?

Yup

And now we are paying them £3k a shift and £3k more.

I’ve always reckoned that if you managed to end agency work in the NHS, it would kick off a massive dispute over pay.

FF43 · December 11

It's grim. The only slightly amusing outcome would be if Hungary peeled off from the EU and the other three countries didn't follow it.

Si vis pacem, para bellum – politicalbetting.com

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