I don't think Socrates argument is that immigrants have driven pubs out of business
Thats exactly what he's saying
It's no surprise that those with a local pub are more likely to vote UKIP, because they still have a community that they're worried is breaking down due to huge numbers of incomers not participating in it.
Yet it's rural and suburban pubs rather than those in cities closing in larger numbers.
The city pubs stay open because of commuters not because of the sense a local community
Those in London away from the sq mile are closing
In East London it is probably because of the large Asian community, hence the pubs close as the whites fly
Correct samonipad,2 great balanced post from you on immigration,one post on why pubs are not shutting down because of immigration and one where it could be down to immigration.
The battles over Europe are largely settled within the Conservatives
Are they? What do we reckon are the scores on the doors: [ ] 1) BOO [ ] 2) BOO without substantial change (ie more than the Social Chapter + promises not to do things they weren't going to do anyway.) [ ] 3) Stay in pretty much whatever.
?
PS. I don't mean what they'd say - they'd nearly all say [2] because it splits the difference - I mean what they actually want.
'Does anyone have a grasp of the numbers of strongly Eurosceptic Labour MPs?'
Don't know but some are starting to come out of the woodwork.
LabourList.
'The Labour Common Market Safeguards Committee morphed into some vague anti EU body. Today it has been re-created, it aim an end to the Common Market.
It is not socially sustainable to allow flexible labour markets, free movement of Labour and capital and have social justice. Why do people think that Google and Facebook base themselves in Ireland and Amazon in Luxembourg?
It is time to stop meddling with vague concepts. Let us have clear social justice priorities
The top priority in housing for those who have lived in social housing as children;
No benefits for anyone until they have paid National insurance for two years
No free flow of capital to avoid taxes
No zero hours agency contracts with no employment rights
No open market in labour in the United Kingdom, rather a system of work permits, including for all Europeans.
Ed Miliband needs to commit Labour to a people’s Europe, by announcing that he will tear up the single Market in labour and capital. I think we will find that Germany, France, Holland and Denmark will quickly follow our lead.
A control over the Common Market, free flow of people but not free flow of labour and capital. That’s what I call a real renegotiation.
I'm constantly in awe of posters who claim to know every anthropological fact about resident communities hundreds of miles from, where they've ever lived!
If only they went on Mastermind with it as their specialist subject ;^ )
@BBCNormanS: What's the betting some senior politicians are being urgently "prepped" on Fergie so they don't make a hash of inevitable doorstep question
@BBCNormanS: What's the betting some senior politicians are being urgently "prepped" on Fergie so they don't make a hash of inevitable doorstep question
Avery - no, all my family on my mother's side left Russia in the 1920s and they all despised bathplugs and said Russians disliked them - before showers became common, they just washed themselves down, standing up. It's one of those cultural differences that either amuse or irritate according to temperament.
Speaking of which, I see Socrates advises he's going to ignore tim and then posts five times in the same thread about the same point. I don't usually comment on other posters, but I agree Socrates doesn't seem xenophobic in the sense of hating foreigners -I'm sure he's cool with foreigners who adapt to Britain or who stay in their own countries. Rather, he has a passionate attachment to a particular form of British culture and tradition which immigration is watering down.
Where I think people with this view sometimes go astray is to imply that this is how all Brits ought to think, and people who don't like inward-looking, tightly-knit communities or don't care when Nelson was born are somewhere between pathetic and treacherous. What I most like about British culture is the tradition that people are entitled to enjoy and change between different kinds of lifestyle and, by and large, IT DOESN'T MATTER. If pubs are important to many people, they will survive any number of arriving Poles and Sikhs. The real threat to pubs is the proliferation of alternatives: coffee shops, bars, and - as with all forms of popular culture - the internet: the lure of staying at home and writing on pb instead of trying to make yourself heard in a crowd of semi-drunk strangers.
As for tim, I see far more posts insulting him than the reverse. He's just better at getting under his counterparts' skins. SeanT dishes out far nastier insults and rarely gets moderated, since the targets rarely complain and moderators correctly sense that we don't take the rhetoric too seriously. Tim's targets might be happier following the same policy.
Washington press (especially the excellent "The Hill") is full of discussion of Benghazi and of the "Gang of 8" bill by Republicans and Democrats to open a path to naturalisation of illegal immigrants: this seems to be an echo of the perception that the GOP made a strategic error in seeming topo anti-immigration. The pro-amnesty initiative is being led by McCain and Rubio on the GOP side, though Rubio is making noises about amendments to keep his commubnications open to the right flank.
The Benghazi coverage is generally on partisan lines - not clear whether it will damage Clinton as much as the hearing clearly intend, because that objective is so obvious and openly discussed. The Democrats are nervous, though.
When Mr Cameron loses the faith of people like me - he needs to pay a lot of attention. I'm a 5* potential voter who is currently sitting on their hands and being wooed by Kippers FFS. It's insane that its got this far. No wonder so many like me aren't playing ball.
You boasted you were voting for Cammie in the locals after his EU speech of lifetime. Perhaps inept tory spin just isn't for you and you should consider something less amusing?
Comments
[ ] 1) BOO
[ ] 2) BOO without substantial change (ie more than the Social Chapter + promises not to do things they weren't going to do anyway.)
[ ] 3) Stay in pretty much whatever.
?
PS. I don't mean what they'd say - they'd nearly all say [2] because it splits the difference - I mean what they actually want.
FACT.
'Does anyone have a grasp of the numbers of strongly Eurosceptic Labour MPs?'
Don't know but some are starting to come out of the woodwork.
LabourList.
'The Labour Common Market Safeguards Committee morphed into some vague anti EU body. Today it has been re-created, it aim an end to the Common Market.
It is not socially sustainable to allow flexible labour markets, free movement of Labour and capital and have social justice. Why do people think that Google and Facebook base themselves in Ireland and Amazon in Luxembourg?
It is time to stop meddling with vague concepts. Let us have clear social justice priorities
The top priority in housing for those who have lived in social housing as children;
No benefits for anyone until they have paid National insurance for two years
No free flow of capital to avoid taxes
No zero hours agency contracts with no employment rights
No open market in labour in the United Kingdom, rather a system of work permits, including for all Europeans.
Ed Miliband needs to commit Labour to a people’s Europe, by announcing that he will tear up the single Market in labour and capital. I think we will find that Germany, France, Holland and Denmark will quickly follow our lead.
A control over the Common Market, free flow of people but not free flow of labour and capital. That’s what I call a real renegotiation.
John Mann is the Labour MP for Bassetlaw
moseleytom Did Moyes and Rooney ever bury the hatchet?
Mario and Carrick in midfield - no oppo in England will touch the ball.
Rafael, Rio, Vidic, Evra
Valencia, Carrick , Mario F, Cleverly
Zaha RVP
Decent - not a Man U fan but decent.
If only they went on Mastermind with it as their specialist subject ;^ )
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4919286/David-Moyes-to-Man-Utd-Everton-deny-official-approach.html
Everton claim that no official approach has been made for David Moyes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaUYDeVtG0Q
Speaking of which, I see Socrates advises he's going to ignore tim and then posts five times in the same thread about the same point. I don't usually comment on other posters, but I agree Socrates doesn't seem xenophobic in the sense of hating foreigners -I'm sure he's cool with foreigners who adapt to Britain or who stay in their own countries. Rather, he has a passionate attachment to a particular form of British culture and tradition which immigration is watering down.
Where I think people with this view sometimes go astray is to imply that this is how all Brits ought to think, and people who don't like inward-looking, tightly-knit communities or don't care when Nelson was born are somewhere between pathetic and treacherous. What I most like about British culture is the tradition that people are entitled to enjoy and change between different kinds of lifestyle and, by and large, IT DOESN'T MATTER. If pubs are important to many people, they will survive any number of arriving Poles and Sikhs. The real threat to pubs is the proliferation of alternatives: coffee shops, bars, and - as with all forms of popular culture - the internet: the lure of staying at home and writing on pb instead of trying to make yourself heard in a crowd of semi-drunk strangers.
As for tim, I see far more posts insulting him than the reverse. He's just better at getting under his counterparts' skins. SeanT dishes out far nastier insults and rarely gets moderated, since the targets rarely complain and moderators correctly sense that we don't take the rhetoric too seriously. Tim's targets might be happier following the same policy.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/05/07/mother_of_slain_benghazi_victim_rips_hillary_clinton_i_blame_her.html
The Benghazi coverage is generally on partisan lines - not clear whether it will damage Clinton as much as the hearing clearly intend, because that objective is so obvious and openly discussed. The Democrats are nervous, though.
Perhaps inept tory spin just isn't for you and you should consider something less amusing?