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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Saying you will vote for Ukip at GE2015: The great divider

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited May 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Saying you will vote for Ukip at GE2015: The great divider between the generations

There’s one slight caveat. Polling that takes place over long holiday weekends can sometimes produce odd results. With this one YouGov started on Bank Holiday Monday.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    This is very alarming if you're a Tory.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    @Donal_Blaney
    A quarter of Tory voters at the last election now back UKIP. A quarter!! When does the love bombing begin? It can't surely wait too long..?

    The UKIP ball keeps rolling....................
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Damn the curse of a new thread, unless TSE triggered it because he didn't like my post

    FPT

    I think 'IT' was one of the scariest books I've ever read. I didn't think the film did it any justice at all and if there's any film producers out there it is definitely one for a remake with all the developments in CGI.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    This is very alarming if you're a Tory.

    why ? It's been going on for a while and Cameron has stoked the fires.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    Blue_rog said:

    Damn the curse of a new thread, unless TSE triggered it because he didn't like my post

    FPT

    I think 'IT' was one of the scariest books I've ever read. I didn't think the film did it any justice at all and if there's any film producers out there it is definitely one for a remake with all the developments in CGI.

    Well they are remaking the Stand
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    On Topic

    One of the very interesting details is the Tory voting intentions of the 18 - 24 group. Are the younger people beginning to realise that Labour's position is all smoke and mirrors?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    Jeez why is it so difficult to understand? @Eek (and many others) had it right. UKIP is the king of NOTA. It _is_ NOTA. Of course if you pin people down you’ll get some kind of answer (guess what? Even then it’s The economy) but it is the hatred, frustration, impotence resulting from a stonking recession (technicalities aside), a rage at the Banksters, Bliars, Broons, Milipedes, Chumocracies, Osbrownes, Gideons, expenses, political classes et al and people are sick of it.

    Thing is, that’s politics. There is no divine right for it all to be ok. And raging at the moon ain’t going to put it right. Nor, I’m afraid, is voting for UKIP. Or The Greens. Or Labour. Ahem.

    And D Cameron is right to have made that quote, crass as it was, and not apologised for it because he is putting distance, despite the best efforts of his back benchers, between him and UKIP. Which is vital.

    Because eventually, when the economy gets better, and people individually feel better (hence employment is a key factor) we will revert to the status quo ante and UKIP will become one more “sign of the times” that these currently crazy years threw up.

    Self deceiving nonsense I'm afraid. You hope it will all go back to the staus quo ante, it never does. People's perceptions change and what they would have accept 2 years ago, now they won't. Cameron's problems are essentially self inflicted since he has proved largely inept at party management. As for unemployment, that's only part of the picture, Osborne's inability to raise living standards will hurt just as much, he's the stagflation chancellor.
    So how have The Greens (or even the SDP) changed the political landscape?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956

    This is very alarming if you're a Tory.

    why ? It's been going on for a while and Cameron has stoked the fires.
    Oldies vote Tory and is the demographic that turns out at the election.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    FPT - still relevant

    Jeez why is it so difficult to understand? @Eek (and many others) had it right. UKIP is the king of NOTA. It _is_ NOTA. Of course if you pin people down you’ll get some kind of answer (guess what? Even then it’s The economy) but it is the hatred, frustration, impotence resulting from a stonking recession (technicalities aside), a rage at the Banksters, Bliars, Broons, Milipedes, Chumocracies, Osbrownes, Gideons, expenses, political classes et al and people are sick of it.

    Thing is, that’s politics. There is no divine right for it all to be ok. And raging at the moon ain’t going to put it right. Nor, I’m afraid, is voting for UKIP. Or The Greens. Or Labour. Ahem.

    And D Cameron is right to have made that quote, crass as it was, and not apologised for it because he is putting distance, despite the best efforts of his back benchers, between him and UKIP. Which is vital.

    Because eventually, when the economy gets better, and people individually feel better (hence employment is a key factor) we will revert to the status quo ante and UKIP will become one more “sign of the times” that these currently crazy years threw up.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Are we having a My Followers Are More Famous Than Your Followers waving contest here?

    @JohnLoony got a retweet from Tom Daley IIRC or at least a reply to his birthday wishes...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    TOPPING said:

    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    Jeez why is it so difficult to understand? @Eek (and many others) had it right. UKIP is the king of NOTA. It _is_ NOTA. Of course if you pin people down you’ll get some kind of answer (guess what? Even then it’s The economy) but it is the hatred, frustration, impotence resulting from a stonking recession (technicalities aside), a rage at the Banksters, Bliars, Broons, Milipedes, Chumocracies, Osbrownes, Gideons, expenses, political classes et al and people are sick of it.

    Thing is, that’s politics. There is no divine right for it all to be ok. And raging at the moon ain’t going to put it right. Nor, I’m afraid, is voting for UKIP. Or The Greens. Or Labour. Ahem.

    And D Cameron is right to have made that quote, crass as it was, and not apologised for it because he is putting distance, despite the best efforts of his back benchers, between him and UKIP. Which is vital.

    Because eventually, when the economy gets better, and people individually feel better (hence employment is a key factor) we will revert to the status quo ante and UKIP will become one more “sign of the times” that these currently crazy years threw up.

    Self deceiving nonsense I'm afraid. You hope it will all go back to the staus quo ante, it never does. People's perceptions change and what they would have accept 2 years ago, now they won't. Cameron's problems are essentially self inflicted since he has proved largely inept at party management. As for unemployment, that's only part of the picture, Osborne's inability to raise living standards will hurt just as much, he's the stagflation chancellor.
    So how have The Greens (or even the SDP) changed the political landscape?
    OOh that's a toughie, you'd nearly think some pillocks didn't change their logo to a tree, hug huskies and impose ridiculous taxes on fuel for example, or that New Labour came from nowhere.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    Plato said:

    Are we having a My Followers Are More Famous Than Your Followers waving contest here?

    @JohnLoony got a retweet from Tom Daley IIRC or at least a reply to his birthday wishes...

    My most famous followers on twitter are Dan Hodges and Grant Shapps.
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Adding the Tory and UKiP VI's together for all polled gives 45%. I wonder if the difference between this and the recent (last 15 years) tory VI is the 'toxic' hangover where the voters that Maggie managed to persuade to vote Tory went elsewhere. It could also be the WWC vote who 'can't' vote Tory.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Interesting that the Conservative vote falls away for the middle two categories, but the young ones (Rik, Neil, Vyvyen etc) are likelier than the middle category chaps to vote for them.

    I wonder if this is because older people are naturally more conservative, and younger people are acutely aware that they're the ones (largely) who'll be paying back the debt and working until (probably) their early to mid-70s.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    TOPPING said:

    FPT - still relevant

    Jeez why is it so difficult to understand? @Eek (and many others) had it right. UKIP is the king of NOTA. It _is_ NOTA. Of course if you pin people down you’ll get some kind of answer (guess what? Even then it’s The economy) but it is the hatred, frustration, impotence resulting from a stonking recession (technicalities aside), a rage at the Banksters, Bliars, Broons, Milipedes, Chumocracies, Osbrownes, Gideons, expenses, political classes et al and people are sick of it.

    Thing is, that’s politics. There is no divine right for it all to be ok. And raging at the moon ain’t going to put it right. Nor, I’m afraid, is voting for UKIP. Or The Greens. Or Labour. Ahem.

    And D Cameron is right to have made that quote, crass as it was, and not apologised for it because he is putting distance, despite the best efforts of his back benchers, between him and UKIP. Which is vital.

    Because eventually, when the economy gets better, and people individually feel better (hence employment is a key factor) we will revert to the status quo ante and UKIP will become one more “sign of the times” that these currently crazy years threw up.

    Dream on Topper: time to take off your top hat and put on sackcloth and ashes. Oh, and watch out for the steam-roller!

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Plato said:

    Are we having a My Followers Are More Famous Than Your Followers waving contest here?

    @JohnLoony got a retweet from Tom Daley IIRC or at least a reply to his birthday wishes...

    My most famous followers on twitter are Dan Hodges and Grant Shapps.
    Mine is India Knight. Grant Shapps doesn't count - he followed me for a while too!
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    FPT

    YouGov

    Age Groups: 18-24; 25-39; 40-59; 60+

    Would not vote: 13%; 14%; 6%; 5%
    Vote UKIP: 10%; 6%; 15%; 28%

    Social Grade: ABC1; C2DE
    Vote UKIP: 13%; 21%

    The certainty to vote must skew the end result - but is this certainty likely to change?
  • Which age group is the most likely to vote?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    @Alanbrooke

    you are making my point for me. I agree that it is vital to have pressure groups to ensure that issues remain on the agenda. They define to a greater or lesser extent the narrative. They don't change the landscape.

    The Greens are an extreme manifestation of, um, green intent but they are a million miles from govt. UKIP are an extreme manifestation of NOTA and ok maybe some incoherent set of right-wing policies which is having an influence on our parties. But they are (and will be) a million miles from govt.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    This is very alarming if you're a Tory.

    why ? It's been going on for a while and Cameron has stoked the fires.
    Oldies vote Tory and is the demographic that turns out at the election.
    Well yes so how does the Tory leader chasing trendy issue votes resonate with that group ? Many of them were suspicious of him in the first place with his heir to Blair PR shtik,; confirming their suspicions wasn't exactly clever. And since oldies are more likely to be the curmudgeonly types who have principles, Cameron's grandstanding is a switchoff. I'd hazard that as well as losing votes to UKIP he's losing as many again to the stay at homes. To get them back he's now going to have to offer more than what he would have needed to do two years ago. Daft politics imo.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    TOPPING said:

    @Alanbrooke

    you are making my point for me. I agree that it is vital to have pressure groups to ensure that issues remain on the agenda. They define to a greater or lesser extent the narrative. They don't change the landscape.

    The Greens are an extreme manifestation of, um, green intent but they are a million miles from govt. UKIP are an extreme manifestation of NOTA and ok maybe some incoherent set of right-wing policies which is having an influence on our parties. But they are (and will be) a million miles from govt.

    I think you don't understand the point you are trying to make. What you call pressure groups are defining your party's policies. Cameron's tack to green issues unleashed many of the irritants on the right which boosted UKIP. He now has to tack back much further to regain votes; he's not in charge of his destiny. If UKIP hold a much larger share at the next GE and get no seats then how much longer can FPTP hold and your whole premise is based on FPTP continuing ? If FPTP goes the core Tory support will sink to 20-25%.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    edited May 2013

    Interesting that the Conservative vote falls away for the middle two categories, but the young ones (Rik, Neil, Vyvyen etc) are likelier than the middle category chaps to vote for them.

    I wonder if this is because older people are naturally more conservative, and younger people are acutely aware that they're the ones (largely) who'll be paying back the debt and working until (probably) their early to mid-70s.

    It's more likely to be that Osborne is squeezing family budgets. He will throw in a few bribes pre-GE to see if he can get some of these folks back.
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    Oh, how quickly we forget. It's the economy, stupid.

    Before the last election, when Alistair Darling was warning of cuts worse than Thatcher, considered opinion was that it would be a good election to lose. Whoever won would make themselves so unpopular they would be out of power for a generation ...

    Now that the Government is really unpopular, it's because the PM went to Eton? Hmmm

    The rise and rise of UKIP is so much like the Cleggasm. Clegg was popular for saying things the others couldn't. Then he made it into Government and realised why no serious party of Government could say the things he had been saying.

    UKIP are the same. They are popular for saying things that no serious party of Government can say. At some point, maybe after they win lots of seats or gift a GE to Labour, the rhetoric and reality will clash in an annihilation scale event, but until then the Tories can't out-kipper them. You can't be a serious party of Government and UKIP at the same time, just as Clegg found out you can't be all things to all voters if you win power.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    edited May 2013
    Blue_rog said:

    On Topic

    One of the very interesting details is the Tory voting intentions of the 18 - 24 group. Are the younger people beginning to realise that Labour's position is all smoke and mirrors?

    What Tory VI of the 18-24 group ? You are drawing false conclusions from one sub sample of one poll . Why not just go back to the previous Yougov/ST poll 18-25 Age Group had just 15% voting Conservative and their other polls last week 16/24 and 29%
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    This is very alarming if you're a Tory.

    why ? It's been going on for a while and Cameron has stoked the fires.
    Oldies vote Tory and is the demographic that turns out at the election.
    Well yes so how does the Tory leader chasing trendy issue votes resonate with that group ? Many of them were suspicious of him in the first place with his heir to Blair PR shtik,; confirming their suspicions wasn't exactly clever. And since oldies are more likely to be the curmudgeonly types who have principles, Cameron's grandstanding is a switchoff. I'd hazard that as well as losing votes to UKIP he's losing as many again to the stay at homes. To get them back he's now going to have to offer more than what he would have needed to do two years ago. Daft politics imo.
    I like Cameron as PMish and as a chap - he seems a very decent guy - but I find my disenchantment with the Cameroon Tendency very telling. He's gone far too far even for me. I don't know what to expect of him policy-wise, I no longer don't trust him to be essentially Tory or Small State. It's been endless nannying which to me speaks of a much wider philosophical mindset difference.

    When Mr Cameron loses the faith of people like me - he needs to pay a lot of attention. I'm a 5* potential voter who is currently sitting on their hands and being wooed by Kippers FFS. It's insane that its got this far. No wonder so many like me aren't playing ball.

    I've no interest in Class War, who his friends are, where he eats his tea, if he rides horses with the Aga Khan or if his kids get chocolate oranges for Christmas - its the policies he champions and frankly I think he's wrong more often than he's right.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    @Alanbrooke

    those pesky voters, eh?

    Issues come and go, gain and lose favour. Political parties have both to lead and follow public opinion but it's not an easy road to travel. Hence they are endlessly criticised for doing or not doing this or that.

    Pressure groups such as the Greens, UKIP, Countryside Alliance, SWP, Stop the War and the Unions for that matter, absolutely influence politics. For all parties.

    If they are influencing my party's politics then just look at the reaction they are provoking in others'.

    But it is a side issue. My point was that UKIP are not going to come within a mile of political power in the formal sense. They will of course be able to channel public dissatisfaction which in turn will dissipate as the economy recovers.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    Plato said:

    This is very alarming if you're a Tory.

    why ? It's been going on for a while and Cameron has stoked the fires.
    Oldies vote Tory and is the demographic that turns out at the election.
    Well yes so how does the Tory leader chasing trendy issue votes resonate with that group ? Many of them were suspicious of him in the first place with his heir to Blair PR shtik,; confirming their suspicions wasn't exactly clever. And since oldies are more likely to be the curmudgeonly types who have principles, Cameron's grandstanding is a switchoff. I'd hazard that as well as losing votes to UKIP he's losing as many again to the stay at homes. To get them back he's now going to have to offer more than what he would have needed to do two years ago. Daft politics imo.
    I like Cameron as PMish and as a chap - he seems a very decent guy - but I find my disenchantment with the Cameroon Tendency very telling. He's gone far too far even for me. I don't know what to expect of him policy-wise, I no longer don't trust him to be essentially Tory or Small State. It's been endless nannying which to me speaks of a much wider philosophical mindset difference.

    When Mr Cameron loses the faith of people like me - he needs to pay a lot of attention. I'm a 5* potential voter who is currently sitting on their hands and being wooed by Kippers FFS. It's insane that its got this far. No wonder so many like me aren't playing ball.

    I've no interest in Class War, who his friends are, where he eats his tea, if he rides horses with the Aga Khan or if his kids get chocolate oranges for Christmas - its the policies he champions and frankly I think he's wrong more often than he's right.
    I'm afraid so Miss P, Cameron is a bit of a dilettante and wants to dabble in everything instead of just getting government off the scene and letting people make their own decisions.
    The question which has dogged him most of has political career " what does David Cameron stand for" still remains unanswered. His only advantage is that Miliband is just as bad, a blank piece of paper. One talks of a Big Society, the other of Predistribution and the electorate collectively scratch their heads and ask WTF is that all about ? And then they start to look for people who speak english.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Can we have Likes/Agree/Whatever buttons back please?

    It really is a retrograde step to have a function removed because one or two posters abused it.

    Reading threads that are now done is a trifle pointless if you can't have any input to them at all - or see what chimed at the time. I've certainly stopped wading through them since I can't even Like a joke.

    Come on @PBModerators - let's have them back. 90%+ of us found them useful.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    TOPPING said:

    @Alanbrooke

    those pesky voters, eh?

    Issues come and go, gain and lose favour. Political parties have both to lead and follow public opinion but it's not an easy road to travel. Hence they are endlessly criticised for doing or not doing this or that.

    Pressure groups such as the Greens, UKIP, Countryside Alliance, SWP, Stop the War and the Unions for that matter, absolutely influence politics. For all parties.

    If they are influencing my party's politics then just look at the reaction they are provoking in others'.

    But it is a side issue. My point was that UKIP are not going to come within a mile of political power in the formal sense. They will of course be able to channel public dissatisfaction which in turn will dissipate as the economy recovers.

    No that's your hope. Cameron's inability to manage expectations on current trends will see him out of government. I remember the panic 2010 when blues thought Brown was going to change the electoral system. If we have an Ed and Nick coalition I'm pretty sure FPTP will go. When FPTP goes, then it's easier for smaller parties to win seats and the bigger ones will see their core vote shrink. You will be in permanent coalition thereafter, possibly with people you belittled.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Brooke, I'm not so sure about that.

    For a start, Labour may well still win majority. That's probably the likeliest result. If they do, there's no way they'd ditch FPTP. Secondly, if the result is hung but with Labour as clearly the biggest party I suspect they might prefer a second election. That would squeeze the Lib Dems as voters split red and blue and probably see Labour finish over the line.

    In addition, they couldn't axe FPTP without a referendum. AV is obviously off the table. I'd hope that some godawful PR system would also fail, although it might not.
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220

    If we have an Ed and Nick coalition I'm pretty sure FPTP will go.

    When a coalition Government is voted out. after a crushing referendum defeat for electoral reform, to be replaced with another coalition, you think there will be a public appetite for entrenching coalition forever?

    Are you offering odds?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The Like/Dislike Agree/Disagree system was just an indulgence in mutual vanity. Good posts are good posts, whether or not they are repeatedly "Liked", and bad posts are bad posts, especially if they are repeatedly "Liked".

    On topic, the fundamental political divide is between those who are willing to believe that politicians can indulge their own fantasies as to how the country should be organised without having to make any difficult decisions and those who recognise that the country is up shit creek, will be so for a long time and who accept that we're just going to have to be prepared for years of crapness. This political divide transcends parties, but the UKIP support is derived exclusively from the fantasists.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    @Alanbrooke

    those pesky voters, eh?

    Issues come and go, gain and lose favour. Political parties have both to lead and follow public opinion but it's not an easy road to travel. Hence they are endlessly criticised for doing or not doing this or that.

    Pressure groups such as the Greens, UKIP, Countryside Alliance, SWP, Stop the War and the Unions for that matter, absolutely influence politics. For all parties.

    If they are influencing my party's politics then just look at the reaction they are provoking in others'.

    But it is a side issue. My point was that UKIP are not going to come within a mile of political power in the formal sense. They will of course be able to channel public dissatisfaction which in turn will dissipate as the economy recovers.

    No that's your hope. Cameron's inability to manage expectations on current trends will see him out of government. I remember the panic 2010 when blues thought Brown was going to change the electoral system. If we have an Ed and Nick coalition I'm pretty sure FPTP will go. When FPTP goes, then it's easier for smaller parties to win seats and the bigger ones will see their core vote shrink. You will be in permanent coalition thereafter, possibly with people you belittled.
    First, I'm not belittling anyone. Anyone, including N. Farage, who gets up and gets involved has my respect.

    Secondly, I agree that Cameron has bobbed like a cork on a wave since he came to power. He came in reversing policies and has reversed policies since.

    But the broad thrust of the Cons is superior to all other options. You only have to see that with the WatO EdM fiasco.

    And as for FPTP, forever in coalition, and a change in voting system, we Brits are just not up for it. Sorry.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
    Eric Brown's book on testing Prototypes - including DH Swallow after pilot was killed.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wings-Weird-Wonderful-Consign-Captain/dp/1902109163/ref=

    Testing German aircraft - often without notes or servicing records.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wings-Luftwaffe-Flying-Aircraft-Consign/dp/1902109155/ref=pd_sim_b_1
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    O/T

    Mr Dancer - have now finally registered with Smashwords (they don't make it easy). Can you post the link (and the discount code 'cos I'm a cheapskate) again please... ;-)
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @Alanbrooke

    Indeed - though I do get the Big Society aka volunteering and never understood why it was so alien to many on the Left and derided by the MSM who often are *so sophisticated* that they can't see the wood for the trees - and sneer at things instead.

    Predistribution never made any sense to me at all either as a term or what it was meant to be - it was one of those weird Marxist verbs.

    More plain-speaking a la Farage would help a lot. When he's challenged about non-PC things, he tends to be normal - though I felt he slipped over the lapdancing thingy. I'd have responded "So What? Do you think its important? I don't."

    If someone speaks their mind enough - its becomes 'John/Boris/Ken et al' being themselves and are insulated from the media nit-picking.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    edited May 2013
    Leadership - This quality was much to the fore at the time of MT's funeral and the lack of this quality among the leaders of the major UK parties has been a reason given for voting UKIP.

    In the YouGov poll of April 25/26 (http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/lhnabrjag7/YG-Archive-Pol-Sunday-Times-results-260413.pdf) NF was the only party leader to have net positive ratings.

    But the question asked was "Do you think that Nigel Farage is doing well or badly as leader of the UK Independence Party", which is a very different question to that of leading the UK.

    However, when asked, "Do you think each of the following would make a better or worse Prime Minister than David
    Cameron?", only 11% thought NF would be better and 40% thought he would be worse (19% said neither and 30% were DK). Only 58% of the UKIPers thought he would be better.

    So far, I have not been able to find a poll about that quality - leadership - which has been a strong topic recently - for any present or potential PM. Can any PBer point me in the right direction?

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    glassfet said:

    If we have an Ed and Nick coalition I'm pretty sure FPTP will go.

    When a coalition Government is voted out. after a crushing referendum defeat for electoral reform, to be replaced with another coalition, you think there will be a public appetite for entrenching coalition forever?

    Are you offering odds?
    Do you seriously think electtoral reform won't make it back on to the agenda ?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    edited May 2013
    Certainly, Mr. Charles: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/313503

    Code is XK87G. Hope you enjoy reading it :)

    Edited extra bit: it's been a while since I registered, and there are certain advantages to it. For a start, the large variety of formats is nice. In addition, sometimes books are free in the US (on Amazon) but not in the UK. When authors do that the books are usually free on Smashwords as well.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    Mr. Brooke, I'm not so sure about that.

    For a start, Labour may well still win majority. That's probably the likeliest result. If they do, there's no way they'd ditch FPTP. Secondly, if the result is hung but with Labour as clearly the biggest party I suspect they might prefer a second election. That would squeeze the Lib Dems as voters split red and blue and probably see Labour finish over the line.

    In addition, they couldn't axe FPTP without a referendum. AV is obviously off the table. I'd hope that some godawful PR system would also fail, although it might not.

    truth in what you say MD, but when the blues are staring at successive electoral defeats and little prospect of being in government by themselves, what do you think they will do ?
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Plato said:

    Are we having a My Followers Are More Famous Than Your Followers waving contest here?

    @JohnLoony got a retweet from Tom Daley IIRC or at least a reply to his birthday wishes...

    Better than that - Tom Daley follows me on Twitter. About 2,400,000 people follow him, but he only follows about 1,000. Why? Maybe because I asked him to, when I met him In June 2011. I don't specifically remember if he's re-tweeted any of my tweets, but he did reply to one tweet when I asked him a question.

    (He had tweeted a photo of his car which looked as though its windscreen had been damaged by a falling tree, or vandalised, or whatever, and I asked him what had happened to it. He replied that his friends had covered his car in clingfilm while he was in diving practice!)

    I am also being followed by Matthew Mitcham (the gay Australian 2008 Olympic gold-medallist in 10 metre diving) who tweeted a photo of the fan-letter I wrote to him, and Jake Foushee (an American voice-actor) from whom I have received a number of replies or re-tweets.

    I also received a reply from the actor Alex Pettyfer (who is currently the 2nd most gorgeous man in the world) when he did a question-and-answer session on Twitter. My question was "hippopotamus or armadillo?" and his answer was "hippopotamus".
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited May 2013
    There is no reason why voting system changes need a referendum.

    The party list for the Euros was introduced without one as were the non-FPTP voting systems in Scotland.

    Also the supplementary vote system, used in English mayoral and police commssioner elections was introduced without a referendum.

    Mr. Brooke, I'm not so sure about that.

    For a start, Labour may well still win majority. That's probably the likeliest result. If they do, there's no way they'd ditch FPTP. Secondly, if the result is hung but with Labour as clearly the biggest party I suspect they might prefer a second election. That would squeeze the Lib Dems as voters split red and blue and probably see Labour finish over the line.

    In addition, they couldn't axe FPTP without a referendum. AV is obviously off the table. I'd hope that some godawful PR system would also fail, although it might not.

  • hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    My take on this poll, is that the 60+ voters are looking at self interest and not of the country. They may have bought property when it was more affordable and be comfortable in their retirement. They would not be worried about leaving the EU, with the possible consequences of this affecting UK trade with the EU. Whereas those currently of working age, see the world differently. They are struggling with the costs of home ownership/costs of rent and the general costs of living. They don't get the winter fuel allowance and the free bus passes etc.

    People under 60 must make sure they use their vote, otherwise the 60 & overs may well decide the future of the UK, when it is not in the interests of the whole country. For far too long Labour and Tories have been buying elections, by bribing pensioners with state benefits. They know these are the most likely to vote and we see the biding war between these parties near an election. Remember in 2010, when Labour said the Tories were going to cut some benefits and Cameron reacted with absolute fury, guaranteeing that the Tories would keep them.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    JohnLoony said:

    Plato said:

    Are we having a My Followers Are More Famous Than Your Followers waving contest here?

    @JohnLoony got a retweet from Tom Daley IIRC or at least a reply to his birthday wishes...

    Better than that - Tom Daley follows me on Twitter. About 2,400,000 people follow him, but he only follows about 1,000. Why? Maybe because I asked him to, when I met him In June 2011. I don't specifically remember if he's re-tweeted any of my tweets, but he did reply to one tweet when I asked him a question.

    (He had tweeted a photo of his car which looked as though its windscreen had been damaged by a falling tree, or vandalised, or whatever, and I asked him what had happened to it. He replied that his friends had covered his car in clingfilm while he was in diving practice!)

    I am also being followed by Matthew Mitcham (the gay Australian 2008 Olympic gold-medallist in 10 metre diving) who tweeted a photo of the fan-letter I wrote to him, and Jake Foushee (an American voice-actor) from whom I have received a number of replies or re-tweets.

    I also received a reply from the actor Alex Pettyfer (who is currently the 2nd most gorgeous man in the world) when he did a question-and-answer session on Twitter. My question was "hippopotamus or armadillo?" and his answer was "hippopotamus".
    YEAH!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Brooke, one does not simply predict the behaviour of the Conservative Party.

    Mr. Smithson, that's not a very democratic perspective, is it?

    For a start, there's a difference between changing an old system to install a new one and introducing a system for a brand new elected body. In addition, the euro elections do not determine who governs Britain. Last, but not least, the need for a referendum to change FPTP now has a handy precedent.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @hucks67 It would be interesting to know why younger people don't vote in the same numbers as their older fellow citizens. It would be tempting to answer that younger people are alienated by the options, but since older people are apparently also alienated by the traditional options, that doesn't answer the question.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Mr. Brooke, I'm not so sure about that.

    In addition, they couldn't axe FPTP without a referendum. AV is obviously off the table. I'd hope that some godawful PR system would also fail, although it might not.

    Sadly you are muddling up *shouldn't* with *couldn't*.

    Power is delegated from the people to Parliament. The people should have the ultimate authority over the 'rules of the game' - anything else is up to Parliament.

    Permanent and (effectively) irreversible transfers of sovereignty, changing the structure and constitution of either of the two houses or the voting system all fall into the camp that need the blessing of the people. Populist stuff (capital punishment comes to mind) is the exclusive purview of our elected representatives.
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220

    Do you seriously think electtoral reform won't make it back on to the agenda ?

    It doesn't pass the UKIP test.

    If the rise in UKIP is down to the leaders of other parties chasing irrelevant policies, talking about themselves instead of 'real people', ignoring the voters and turning people against politics and politicians, there is no better single example of all of that than electoral reform, especially in a Parliament immediately after a referendum that nobody wanted and was soundly defeated.

    I don't think even Ed is dumb enough to go for it, although Nick would probably be up for it.
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    There is no reason why voting system changes need a referendum.

    The party list for the Euros was introduced without one as were the non-FPTP voting systems in Scotland.

    Also the supplementary vote system, used in English mayoral and police commssioner elections was introduced without a referendum.

    Mr. Brooke, I'm not so sure about that.

    For a start, Labour may well still win majority. That's probably the likeliest result. If they do, there's no way they'd ditch FPTP. Secondly, if the result is hung but with Labour as clearly the biggest party I suspect they might prefer a second election. That would squeeze the Lib Dems as voters split red and blue and probably see Labour finish over the line.

    In addition, they couldn't axe FPTP without a referendum. AV is obviously off the table. I'd hope that some godawful PR system would also fail, although it might not.

    Interesting, we can't trust the electorate to give us the answer we want so we won't ask them, just impose it.

    Now where have I heard that before?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    tim said:

    ManUtd_PressOffice ‏@ManUtd_PO 2m
    Sir Alex Ferguson retires. #thankyousiralex

    Those are some enourmous shoes to fill. Back or lay Moyes ?

  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Plato said:

    YEAH!

    "Yeah!" to which bit? The Tom Daley bit, the Matthew Mitcham bit, or the Alex Pettyfer bit? :)
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Pulpstar said:

    tim said:

    ManUtd_PressOffice ‏@ManUtd_PO 2m
    Sir Alex Ferguson retires. #thankyousiralex

    Those are some enourmous shoes to fill. Back or lay Moyes ?

    How about "The Special One"?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Is this not a clearly an example of changing demographics beginning to change politics in a huge way.

    We are an aging population, and people are, naturally going to vote for the things they feel are important, and which effect them. As this continues, should we not expect things to be affected more and more by the grey vote. Given they're more likely to vote in the first place, and there's a ever increasing number of them..

    If so expect the political 'centre ground' to move more and more in UKIPs and the Tories favour.

    Does anyone have a combined UKIP/tory vote share graph? That would be very interesting...
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    glassfet said:

    Do you seriously think electtoral reform won't make it back on to the agenda ?

    It doesn't pass the UKIP test.

    If the rise in UKIP is down to the leaders of other parties chasing irrelevant policies, talking about themselves instead of 'real people', ignoring the voters and turning people against politics and politicians, there is no better single example of all of that than electoral reform, especially in a Parliament immediately after a referendum that nobody wanted and was soundly defeated.

    I don't think even Ed is dumb enough to go for it, although Nick would probably be up for it.
    Those who think Electoral Reform will be on anyone's agenda in the next 20yrs bar those who seek to wield minority vote balance of power is kidding themselves.

    We had a ref - it was soundly defeated. Get over it. The electorate told you they didn't want it. You may want it for narrow self-interest, that's another matter entirely.

    That Kippers are temporarily polling quite highly is neither here nor there - PR advocates rang screaming from the room when it was the BNP who were winning seats using that system...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    tim said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tim said:

    ManUtd_PressOffice ‏@ManUtd_PO 2m
    Sir Alex Ferguson retires. #thankyousiralex

    Those are some enourmous shoes to fill. Back or lay Moyes ?


    I'm on Moyes at 9/2

    including a year's apprenticeship under SAF, which is how it was described this morning? If so then not Moyes - can't see him waiting a season for full control.

    Or is it retire as from this moment?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    antifrank said:

    @hucks67 It would be interesting to know why younger people don't vote in the same numbers as their older fellow citizens. It would be tempting to answer that younger people are alienated by the options, but since older people are apparently also alienated by the traditional options, that doesn't answer the question.

    Being a taxpayer for many years makes you more interested in the way the money you've paid in for decades is used...
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,911
    The UKIP hubris being displayed here and elsewhere of late reminds me very much of David Steel's comical "Return to your constituencies and prepare for government!" It will look just as idiotic in 2 years time - I just hope someone is saving the most hyped up quotes to give us all a good laugh in a year or two!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    glassfet said:

    Do you seriously think electtoral reform won't make it back on to the agenda ?

    It doesn't pass the UKIP test.

    If the rise in UKIP is down to the leaders of other parties chasing irrelevant policies, talking about themselves instead of 'real people', ignoring the voters and turning people against politics and politicians, there is no better single example of all of that than electoral reform, especially in a Parliament immediately after a referendum that nobody wanted and was soundly defeated.

    I don't think even Ed is dumb enough to go for it, although Nick would probably be up for it.
    yes but isn't UKIP's point that the "elite" game the system to suit themselves. Just because UKIP exist doesn't stop that and if UKIP only have a quarter of the votes if parties representing 50+% of voters chose a stitch up, it might not be ethical, but it is democratic.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Jose > Man U
    Pelligrini > Chelsea
    Moyse = stay

    nailed on.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited May 2013
    Has anyone pointed out that using the thread article's numbers - 4x as many older voters prefer UKIP to the LDs?

    I wonder why... does age tend towards a dislike of previous experience/emotions?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Plato said:

    Has anyone pointed out that using the thread articles numbers - 4x as many older voters prefer UKIP to the LDs?

    I wonder why...

    Is the mystery not more why younger people don't hate the LDs more ?
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    Plato said:

    Has anyone pointed out that using the thread article's numbers - 4x as many older voters prefer UKIP to the LDs?

    I wonder why...

    People expressing a preference for a fantasy anti-politics party, rather than a party of Government taking harsh decisions

    Precisely the point
  • MarchesMarches Posts: 51
    United: whoever gets it will be accepting a poisoned chalice (much like following Busby). Moyes will, I suspect, at least have the merit of being (a) cheap and (b) being able to find relative bargains in the transfer market.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    On a football-related note, I'm feeling a bit happier this morning than I did yesterday afternoon. But what is they say about "I can cope with the despair, it's the hope I can't stand"?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Certainly, Mr. Charles: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/313503

    Code is XK87G. Hope you enjoy reading it :)

    Edited extra bit: it's been a while since I registered, and there are certain advantages to it. For a start, the large variety of formats is nice. In addition, sometimes books are free in the US (on Amazon) but not in the UK. When authors do that the books are usually free on Smashwords as well.

    Thanks - paid and printed... need to finish the history of Goldman Sachs I am working on at the moment...
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    Marches said:

    United: whoever gets it will be accepting a poisoned chalice (much like following Busby).

    Sounds like a job for Martin O'Neill
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited May 2013
    glassfet said:

    Plato said:

    Has anyone pointed out that using the thread article's numbers - 4x as many older voters prefer UKIP to the LDs?

    I wonder why...

    People expressing a preference for a fantasy anti-politics party, rather than a party of Government taking harsh decisions

    Precisely the point
    Surely, older voters are less likely to be seduced by fantasy politics as they been there and done that? That's why they tend to be Tory fiscal conservatives than Labour spendies?

    We all suffer from the Nostalgia Factor where the Good Was Great and the Bad Was Awful - but the wisdom of crowds does seem to tell us that older voters tend to be more conservative in outlook.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    glassfet said:

    Plato said:

    Has anyone pointed out that using the thread article's numbers - 4x as many older voters prefer UKIP to the LDs?

    I wonder why...

    People expressing a preference for a fantasy anti-politics party, rather than a party of Government taking harsh decisions

    Precisely the point
    I'm not sure the government is really taking harsh decisions though is it? Just look at Heathrow...dithering, or long grass. The same with energy. etc etc....
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    There is no reason why voting system changes need a referendum.

    The party list for the Euros was introduced without one as were the non-FPTP voting systems in Scotland.

    Also the supplementary vote system, used in English mayoral and police commssioner elections was introduced without a referendum.

    Mr. Brooke, I'm not so sure about that.

    For a start, Labour may well still win majority. That's probably the likeliest result. If they do, there's no way they'd ditch FPTP. Secondly, if the result is hung but with Labour as clearly the biggest party I suspect they might prefer a second election. That would squeeze the Lib Dems as voters split red and blue and probably see Labour finish over the line.

    In addition, they couldn't axe FPTP without a referendum. AV is obviously off the table. I'd hope that some godawful PR system would also fail, although it might not.

    Both examples are power that is delegated from Westminster to another group, but ultimately can be taken back by Parliament.

    While Parliament is Sovereign different standards apply to rules for Westminster
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    @Coral: Early movement already in the Next Man United manager - Mourinho & Moyes now joint 11/8 favourites! http://corl.me/2tHUh5 #MUFC
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited May 2013
    glassfet said:

    People expressing a preference for a fantasy anti-politics party, rather than a party of Government taking harsh decisions
    Precisely the point

    The Conservative Party is not taking any harsh decisions in government. It has abandoned deficit reduction. It panders to the tabloids on civil liberties, asylum & immigration and the rule of law, rather than standing up for the difficult but right choices. It has failed on housing and planning. Every budget is littered with a series of politically-motivated giveaways to special interest groups while the Chancellor insists that there is no money left. It is true that UKIP is a joke of a party. At least it is an open joke.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    glassfet said:

    Marches said:

    United: whoever gets it will be accepting a poisoned chalice (much like following Busby).

    Sounds like a job for Martin O'Neill
    Is the job description "spend a lot of money and end up with a crap team" ? O'Neill was the most overrated manager in the Uk - suspect he will be at Wolves next season - sorry Wolves fans.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    glassfet said:

    @Coral: Early movement already in the Next Man United manager - Mourinho & Moyes now joint 11/8 favourites! http://corl.me/2tHUh5 #MUFC

    Mourinho would be fun, the ManU haters could get to hate them even more.

  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Plato said:

    That Kippers are temporarily polling quite highly is neither here nor there - PR advocates rang screaming from the room when it was the BNP who were winning seats using that system...

    I didn't. It was right that the BNP got seats under PR - because they had their share of the votes which entitled them to some.

    The benefit of PR (particularly in local government) would also be that it would guard against the BNP suddenly winning a whole council - which was a conceivable outcome in places like Barking & Dagenham not so long ago.

  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Kevin Keegans not doing much at the moment is he... ;)
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220

    I'm not sure the government is really taking harsh decisions though is it? Just look at Heathrow...dithering, or long grass. The same with energy. etc etc....

    Just because there are some unpopular things the Government has not yet done, does not mean they are not doing lots of unpopular things

    A better example is probably Abu Qatada. Why is he not on a plane? Cameron could probably win the election outright by putting him on a plane, but he hasn't, because he is leading a serious party of Government. Labour didn't do it either for the same reason. Nigel Farage can talk about it all he wants and court popularity. Keeping him here is unpopular, and the Government is doing it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    Bloody pensioners taking cash from idiots.

    I'll bet Dan, like Toby, doesn't even know he'd get better odds elsewhere

    That kind of bet is about a public statement, not about odds.

    Try sneering less and thinking more
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Plato said:


    glassfet said:

    Plato said:

    Has anyone pointed out that using the thread article's numbers - 4x as many older voters prefer UKIP to the LDs?

    I wonder why...

    People expressing a preference for a fantasy anti-politics party, rather than a party of Government taking harsh decisions

    Precisely the point
    Surely, older voters are less likely to be seduced by fantasy politics as they been there and done that? That's why they tend to be Tory fiscal conservatives than Labour spendies?

    We all suffer from the Nostalgia Factor where the Good Was Great and the Bad Was Awful - but the wisdom of crowds does seem to tell us that older voters tend to be more conservative in outlook.
    @Plato: Older people are usually more conservative as they have seen what has failed and have that recognition factor from experience. Of course timing is everything and sometimes a new solution is required for an old problem. So a blend of youth and experience often works well.

    BTW Opening of Parliament BBC1 10.30 is hosted by your own, your very own Huw.
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    @jonathanliew: Sir Alex's body to lie in state at Old Trafford for three days, occasionally sitting up to check his watch
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    JohnLoony said:

    Plato said:

    That Kippers are temporarily polling quite highly is neither here nor there - PR advocates rang screaming from the room when it was the BNP who were winning seats using that system...

    I didn't. It was right that the BNP got seats under PR - because they had their share of the votes which entitled them to some.

    The benefit of PR (particularly in local government) would also be that it would guard against the BNP suddenly winning a whole council - which was a conceivable outcome in places like Barking & Dagenham not so long ago.

    And good on you for being consistent. If a political party is sanctioned - then AFAIC they and their voters deserve to listened to even if I disagree with them a lot. This doesn't seem to apply to the Left - which I think is bizarre.

    It's the same as hating Hitler, but never mentioning Stalin.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,920

    Kevin Keegans not doing much at the moment is he... ;)

    I would love it, love it ...
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220

    The Conservative Party is not taking any harsh decisions in government.

    Vote for this guy then

    @BBCNormanS: Ed Miliband says Labour will "look at" Govt proposals to curb benefit tourism but does not commit to support or oppose them
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Financier said:

    Plato said:


    glassfet said:

    Plato said:

    Has anyone pointed out that using the thread article's numbers - 4x as many older voters prefer UKIP to the LDs?

    I wonder why...

    People expressing a preference for a fantasy anti-politics party, rather than a party of Government taking harsh decisions

    Precisely the point
    Surely, older voters are less likely to be seduced by fantasy politics as they been there and done that? That's why they tend to be Tory fiscal conservatives than Labour spendies?

    We all suffer from the Nostalgia Factor where the Good Was Great and the Bad Was Awful - but the wisdom of crowds does seem to tell us that older voters tend to be more conservative in outlook.
    @Plato: Older people are usually more conservative as they have seen what has failed and have that recognition factor from experience. Of course timing is everything and sometimes a new solution is required for an old problem. So a blend of youth and experience often works well.

    BTW Opening of Parliament BBC1 10.30 is hosted by your own, your very own Huw.
    Good points - and Oh Dear Me, Huw??? Again. FFS.

    I mean really - are the BBC a cable channel with ONE anchor host? It does seem like it.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,920
    p.s. On likes/ dislikes. I want to register my liking for Antifrank's post on why we shouldn't have them.
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220

    Kevin Keegans not doing much at the moment is he... ;)

    I would love it, love it ...
    250/1
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    @jameskirkup: TV now: Sky has Fergie; BBC News has @Kevin_Maguire on Queen's Speech. Surely a joke to be made about ageing millionaire socialists there.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,910
    edited May 2013
    I would happily turn to the Dark Purple Side for the Euro Election next year.

    But as for GE2015, I would only do so if I could be sure that Labour don't win here, Ilford North. Since it's quite a marginal (Con/Lab), I can reassure TSE that my loyalties to the blue team will endure!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    Bloody pensioners taking cash from idiots.

    I'll bet Dan, like Toby, doesn't even know he'd get better odds elsewhere

    That kind of bet is about a public statement, not about odds.

    Try sneering less and thinking more
    Says the twit who ducks every chance to take a bet backing up his statements with 37 paragraphs saying "I've examined the binary choices blah blah blah blah no."

    Nah, it's just that you only offer sh1tty odds or terms that favour you. That's fine, but I'm not buying a pup.
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    glassfet said:

    Marches said:

    United: whoever gets it will be accepting a poisoned chalice (much like following Busby).

    Sounds like a job for Martin O'Neill
    give it to Pulis!
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    tim said:

    p.s. On likes/ dislikes. I want to register my liking for Antifrank's post on why we shouldn't have them.

    "The Like/Dislike Agree/Disagree system was just an indulgence in mutual vanity. Good posts are good posts, whether or not they are repeatedly "Liked", and bad posts are bad posts, especially if they are repeatedly "Liked"."

    Goes without saying, or it should do.
    Whatever you need to make you feel good tim.....
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    glassfet said:

    The Conservative Party is not taking any harsh decisions in government.

    Vote for this guy then

    @BBCNormanS: Ed Miliband says Labour will "look at" Govt proposals to curb benefit tourism but does not commit to support or oppose them
    Gawd sake rEd - he can't even rise to the rank of flip flopper - just a wet cloth.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    @Charles.

    I'm not buying a pup.

    How about a pepper?

    Only those nice plastic tubs of Tesco Value peppers (3 for a £1)
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited May 2013
    glassfet said:

    The Conservative Party is not taking any harsh decisions in government.

    Vote for this guy then

    @BBCNormanS: Ed Miliband says Labour will "look at" Govt proposals to curb benefit tourism but does not commit to support or oppose them
    However much we collectively take the mickey re Dan Hodges opinion of EdM - he's often spot on. EdM isn't PM material, I'd never vote for him, he's brimming with Marxist wonk speak and even Mary 'Riddell thinks he's a loser.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @journodave: Former St Mirren manager retires from job #localheadlines
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    dr_spyn said:

    Eric Brown's ....

    Oh my childhood days. I used to have within my posession over 100 editions of 'Air International', all dated from the late 'Sixties thro' to early 'Eighties.

    A childhood now lost!

    :seeks-comfort-from-another-Airfix-model:
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,910
    glassfet said:

    @jonathanliew: Sir Alex's body to lie in state at Old Trafford for three days, occasionally sitting up to check his watch

    And nervously chewing gum?

    :)
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    glassfet said:

    @Coral: Early movement already in the Next Man United manager - Mourinho & Moyes now joint 11/8 favourites! http://corl.me/2tHUh5 #MUFC

    Mourinho would be fun, the ManU haters could get to hate them even more.

    Really? I think Mourinho's a great personality...
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    @faisalislam: Clearly going to be mourinho. Giggs as understudy. Ronaldo back?? #completeguess

    @WillHillBet: Further to Sir Alex Ferguson's retirement, we're going 4/1 for both Jose Mourinho and Ronaldo to join Man Utd http://tinyurl.com/bpksuds
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @Slackbladder

    Those who lose never like a system where others won ;^ )

This discussion has been closed.