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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Saying you will vote for Ukip at GE2015: The great divider

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
    Thanks, Mr. Charles. I hope you enjoy it.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Plato said:

    glassfet said:

    The Conservative Party is not taking any harsh decisions in government.

    Vote for this guy then

    @BBCNormanS: Ed Miliband says Labour will "look at" Govt proposals to curb benefit tourism but does not commit to support or oppose them
    However much we collectively take the mickey re Dan Hodges opinion of EdM - he's often spot on. EdM isn't PM material, I'd never vote for him, he's brimming with Marxist wonk speak and even Mary 'Riddell thinks he's a loser.

    Plato - be thankful that the broader left is still loyal to rEd and thinks they just have to turn up in 2015 to win - one of the few positives to take right now. Long may the nailed onners keep their heads in the sand.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311

    dr_spyn said:

    Eric Brown's ....

    Oh my childhood days. I used to have within my posession over 100 editions of 'Air International', all dated from the late 'Sixties thro' to early 'Eighties.

    A childhood now lost!

    :seeks-comfort-from-another-Airfix-model:
    Wasn't it 'Flight International'? My dad use to buy it for me during the 80s. Always loved the cutaway diagrams, and the airline fleet lists!
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Plato said:

    Has anyone pointed out that using the thread article's numbers - 4x as many older voters prefer UKIP to the LDs?

    I wonder why... does age tend towards a dislike of previous experience/emotions?

    The LD numbers are very tidy. Support diminishes as age increases.
    18-24: 12%
    25-39: 11%
    40-59: 8%
    60+: 7%


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    glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    @BBCNormanS: What's the betting some senior politicians are being urgently "prepped" on Fergie so they don't make a hash of inevitable doorstep question
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Thanks, Mr. Charles. I hope you enjoy it.



    Page numbers would have been nice!
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    WTF?

    "Paramedics were told they could not rush to the aid of a BBC staff member who appeared to be having a cardiac arrest in the newsroom because of strict rules designed to regulate on-screen behaviour, it has been reported...

    Sue Harris, of the NUJ, said: 'The member of [BBC] staff had to struggle out of camera shot to get to the paramedic as the crew weren’t allowed to walk across the newsroom to them because of their high-vis jackets.

    'This cannot be allowed to happen again. A more sensible solution has to be found, such as putting screens up. Fortunately on this occasion the person in question was not critically ill, but the BBC cannot let petty rules potentially put lives in danger.'

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2321107/Security-BBCs-new-1bn-HQ-tight-paramedics-stopped-reaching-man-having-heart-attack.html#ixzz2SgqevrEA
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    What a surprise

    RT ‏@JoshuaRozenberg Robert Jay QC, ex-Leveson, becomes High Court judge.
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    hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    Alex Ferguson to retire, stand for Labour in a safe seat and become the chief whip in a new Labour government. Hairdryer treatment and cups of team or football boot throwing in the lobbies.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704

    Plato said:

    Has anyone pointed out that using the thread article's numbers - 4x as many older voters prefer UKIP to the LDs?

    I wonder why... does age tend towards a dislike of previous experience/emotions?

    The LD numbers are very tidy. Support diminishes as age increases.
    18-24: 12%
    25-39: 11%
    40-59: 8%
    60+: 7%


    The wisdom of experience.
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    glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
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    glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    @olifranklin: He's not dead, Ed. RT @Ed_Miliband Proud man. Great manager. Staunch Labour Party supporter. Sir Alex Ferguson will never be forgotten
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited May 2013
    LOL

    Giles Dilnot ‏@reporterboy 43s

    Ed Miliband's Fergie Twibute sounds suspiciously as if a minion has told him the man's dead !

    Ed MilibandVerified account ‏@Ed_Miliband
    Proud man. Great manager. Staunch Labour Party supporter. Sir Alex Ferguson will never be forgotten.
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    FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    Wee-Timmy:

    My account is with Billy Knoll. They don't have "Curbs" as a contender. How do I get them to give me odds on-line...?
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    samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182
    glassfet said:

    Oh, how quickly we forget. It's the economy, stupid.

    Before the last election, when Alistair Darling was warning of cuts worse than Thatcher, considered opinion was that it would be a good election to lose. Whoever won would make themselves so unpopular they would be out of power for a generation ...

    Now that the Government is really unpopular, it's because the PM went to Eton? Hmmm

    The rise and rise of UKIP is so much like the Cleggasm. Clegg was popular for saying things the others couldn't. Then he made it into Government and realised why no serious party of Government could say the things he had been saying.

    UKIP are the same. They are popular for saying things that no serious party of Government can say. At some point, maybe after they win lots of seats or gift a GE to Labour, the rhetoric and reality will clash in an annihilation scale event, but until then the Tories can't out-kipper them. You can't be a serious party of Government and UKIP at the same time, just as Clegg found out you can't be all things to all voters if you win power.

    You think if ukip were in a coalition they would vote to stay in the EU a la the LibDems and tuition fees?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    glassfet said:

    @olifranklin: He's not dead, Ed. RT @Ed_Miliband Proud man. Great manager. Staunch Labour Party supporter. Sir Alex Ferguson will never be forgotten


    RIP Fergie :D




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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Re Baxter's "24% for a UKIP seat."

    No-one truly knows. It depends on four things.

    1. High profile candidates. Farage....and... errm?
    2. The level of votes. More is better.
    3. The standard deviation of the vote. More is better.
    4. The relative standing of the parties. Closer is better.

    The best example we have is the SDP in 1983 for 26% of the vote. None of their 6 seat wins was truly unexpected. Four incumbents, one by-election victor, and a seat which had previously been Liberal for most of the century. But the SDP only came within spitting distance in two other seats which did not include such factors - Stevenage and Durham...

    So Baxter is probably not far off the mark.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    glassfet said:

    @olifranklin: He's not dead, Ed. RT @Ed_Miliband Proud man. Great manager. Staunch Labour Party supporter. Sir Alex Ferguson will never be forgotten

    This tops Blackbusters for a tweet - hilariously bad wording. And its not even a Friday!
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    glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    samonipad said:

    You think if ukip were in a coalition they would vote to stay in the EU a la the LibDems and tuition fees?

    I think if UKIP were in Government the £120 billion gap in their spending promises would disappoint large numbers of the people who voted for them, just like students voting for Lib Dems
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,023

    dr_spyn said:

    Eric Brown's ....

    Oh my childhood days. I used to have within my posession over 100 editions of 'Air International', all dated from the late 'Sixties thro' to early 'Eighties.

    A childhood now lost!

    :seeks-comfort-from-another-Airfix-model:
    Wasn't it 'Flight International'? My dad use to buy it for me during the 80s. Always loved the cutaway diagrams, and the airline fleet lists!
    Back issues of Flight International are available on-line, and make for fascinating reading if you are an engineering Geek.

    An example: a 1941 article on jet aircraft:
    http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1941/1941 - 2371.html?search=Whittle e.28/39 pioneer
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Ed really doesn't do human does he...
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Dangerous dogs???

    BBC News (UK) ‏@BBCNews 1m

    Immigration, high-speed rail, cigarette packaging & dangerous dogs - what to expect in Queen's Speech http://bbc.in/10p0UDK #QueensSpeech
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    FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    edited May 2013

    Wasn't it 'Flight International'? My dad use to buy it for me during the 80s. Always loved the cutaway diagrams, and the airline fleet lists!

    Dr Prasannan,

    Please go back to learning about Prussia, Prussia-Brandenburg and Germanic history. "Air International" is still published by 'Key Publishing': Other, limited circulation magazines - "Air Enthusiast" and "Flight International" - are/were mere ripples on the tsunami of mode-kit reviews....

    :cough:

    You seem to like these:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_International

    :cough:
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Is there actually anything about immigration in the Queen's speech? As far as I can tell it's just benefit changes that apply equally to UK nationals...
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Socrates said:

    Is there actually anything about immigration in the Queen's speech? As far as I can tell it's just benefit changes that apply equally to UK nationals...

    Something about health tourism - can't yet see the day where your ID card is checked at hospitals though - so hot air.

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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    glassfet said:

    samonipad said:

    You think if ukip were in a coalition they would vote to stay in the EU a la the LibDems and tuition fees?

    I think if UKIP were in Government the £120 billion gap in their spending promises would disappoint large numbers of the people who voted for them, just like students voting for Lib Dems
    Gosh I wonder how the £500 billion gap in Labour's spending promises went down with those deluded people who voted Labour?
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    Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    glassfet said:

    The Conservative Party is not taking any harsh decisions in government.

    Vote for this guy then

    @BBCNormanS: Ed Miliband says Labour will "look at" Govt proposals to curb benefit tourism but does not commit to support or oppose them
    Gawd sake rEd - he can't even rise to the rank of flip flopper - just a wet cloth.


    Nobody is going to commit to insane shit like that before it's worked through

    tim, do you have any self awareness? If you did, you wouldn't make inherently hypocritical statements like the one above.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Blue_rog said:

    glassfet said:

    samonipad said:

    You think if ukip were in a coalition they would vote to stay in the EU a la the LibDems and tuition fees?

    I think if UKIP were in Government the £120 billion gap in their spending promises would disappoint large numbers of the people who voted for them, just like students voting for Lib Dems
    Gosh I wonder how the £500 billion gap in Labour's spending promises went down with those deluded people who voted Labour?
    Spending promises are only a problem in the age of no money if you win - see the LDs on 9% for details or Labour on 29% in 2010.



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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    tim said:

    PB Tories in Awesome Speech/Ed's Tweet parody postings.

    They never disappoint

    An of course all your inane ramblings are actually cutting political insight...

    unspoofable...
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311

    Wasn't it 'Flight International'? My dad use to buy it for me during the 80s. Always loved the cutaway diagrams, and the airline fleet lists!

    Dr Prasannan,

    Please go back to learning about Prussia, Prussia-Brandenburg and Germanic history. "Air International" is still published by 'Key Publishing': Other, limited circulation magazines - "Air Enthusiast" and "Flight International" - are/were mere ripples on the tsunami of mode-kit reviews....

    :cough:

    You seem to like these:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_International

    :cough:
    Ah, my mistake, Mr Fluffy!
    Seems 'Flight' dealt with real planes, not kits.

    But remember: Prussia at its height in 1870 was bigger than England. Ja? Sehr gut!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prussiamap.gif
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    glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    @SkyBet: Sports Personality of the Year? Sir Alex Ferguson now 11/4 to land the BBC award --> http://sky.me/18WRIun
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited May 2013
    Jesus - WTF is BBC Parly doing re Black Rod profile? It's not worthy of Newsround in it's patronising and breakfast tv coverage.

    Christ. Talk about dumbing down.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Interesting that the Conservative vote falls away for the middle two categories, but the young ones (Rik, Neil, Vyvyen etc) are likelier than the middle category chaps to vote for them.

    I wonder if this is because older people are naturally more conservative, and younger people are acutely aware that they're the ones (largely) who'll be paying back the debt and working until (probably) their early to mid-70s.

    My working assumption on this is that the middle categories include people who grew up under Thatcher/Major, whereas the youngest category grew up under Blair/Brown.

    Everyone accepts that there is a toxic legacy in many voters' eyes from the 18 years that ended in the 1997 landslide, and in the years to come the Labour party will have to accept that there is an effect due to the legacy of Iraq and the Great Recession.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    tim said:

    tim said:

    PB Tories in Awesome Speech/Ed's Tweet parody postings.

    They never disappoint

    An of course all your inane ramblings are actually cutting political insight...

    unspoofable...

    The solidarity of the Tears for Piers brigade is touching as ever.
    Going to join the Twitter campaign slagging off Mike are you?
    Ahaha... predictable as ever... go on...witter away about Osborne at a funeral...it'll get you through the day...
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    PB Tories in Awesome Speech/Ed's Tweet parody postings.

    They never disappoint

    tim - I'm looking forward to Mike publishing a collated volume of all of your posts praising rEd Miliband over the years - I hear it's going to be a special edition on the back of the new 2nd class stamp.

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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    Plato said:

    Dangerous dogs???

    BBC News (UK) ‏@BBCNews 1m

    Immigration, high-speed rail, cigarette packaging & dangerous dogs - what to expect in Queen's Speech http://bbc.in/10p0UDK #QueensSpeech

    Must be those Tory attack dogs?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited May 2013
    @TGOHF

    The flailing is amusingly desperate - I'm waiting for references to Gideon, Enoch, toffs, country suppers et al as diversionary posts.

    Those who fall for them need to get a grip - it's playground baiting fodder.
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited May 2013
    One does have to laugh at the naivety of pundits who praise Nigel Farage's 'plain-speaking'. His comments on the EEA are a masterpiece of obfuscation - he frequently cites Norway as a model :

    "there is absolutely nothing to fear in terms of trade from leaving the European Union, because on D+1 we'll find ourselves part of the European Economic Area and with a free trade deal."

    .. which doesn't exactly chime with his comments on immigration, does it?

    He told the conference: "The truth is, that on immigration, those three parties, the LibLabCon, are all the same, because they all support a total open door to the whole of Eastern Europe.

    "They all support that door being flung even wider open to the 29m people from Bulgaria and Romania ."


    It seems that UKIP also supports a total open door to the whole of Eastern Europe.

    http://www.efdgroup.eu/newsroom/item/eea-farage-s-response-to-pm-cameron.html

    http://www.udi.no/Norwegian-Directorate-of-Immigration/Central-topics/Work-and-residence/Work-and-residence-EUEEAEFTA-citizens/

    http://news.sky.com/story/1068755/farage-ukip-a-real-alternative-to-main-parties
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    samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182
    tim said:

    @Slackbladder.

    You want some help charting the unravelling of the immigration crap being spouted today?

    Queen's Speech: Jeremy Hunt 'unable' to explain how new immigration laws will work
    Plans to make landlords legally responsible for ensuring that they do not let properties to illegal immigrants were mired in confusion today after Jeremy Hunt refused to explain how the rules will actually work.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/queens-speech/10043203/Queens-Speech-Jeremy-Hunt-unable-to-explain-how-new-immigration-laws-will-work.html

    Falling apart already, and that's before they try and explain how passports are relevant to healthcare.


    The only way any of this can be done is to leave the EU. Your analogy of chamomile tea and strong brew was spot on.
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    samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182
    My Fergie bets would be Klopp at 10s and M Laudrup at 66s
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    test.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Plato said:

    Grant Shapps doesn't count - he followed me for a while too!

    Isnt the point that Grant Shapps has followed everyone who has ever been on twitter? And then quickly unfollowed them again. Or was that Michael Green?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    glassfet said:

    The Conservative Party is not taking any harsh decisions in government.

    Vote for this guy then

    @BBCNormanS: Ed Miliband says Labour will "look at" Govt proposals to curb benefit tourism but does not commit to support or oppose them
    Gawd sake rEd - he can't even rise to the rank of flip flopper - just a wet cloth.

    What are the proposals?

    Buy to Let landlords policing immigration?

    GP's checking passports?

    Nobody is going to commit to insane shit like that before it's worked through

    GPs do not need to check passports, to be registered patients need an NHS number. Hospitals like mine have overseas officers to identify non emergency patients who are not eligible, and do bill them the cost of care. I have several overseas patients who are being billed at present. The money stays in the hospital, i get none of it.

    Policing of these things is much tighter than previously, and overseas patients generally happy to pay.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim thinks this is a pb issue..

    @MrHarryCole 29s

    I count about 500 twitter users who point out to Ed that Fergie is not dead.



    timmy - why can't you be nice about rEd - go on - big him up - sell him to us...

    You can't - and deep down it's killing you...
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Plato said:

    Dangerous dogs???

    BBC News (UK) ‏@BBCNews 1m

    Immigration, high-speed rail, cigarette packaging & dangerous dogs - what to expect in Queen's Speech http://bbc.in/10p0UDK #QueensSpeech

    Must be those Tory attack dogs?
    I just weep - a dog or two bites or worse their owner or a visitor and its legislated against? Let's stop co-habitation to stop domestic violence or car driving or falling off ladders or out of bed.

    The chances of being killed by a neighbour's dog or even your own is vanishingly small. It's pathetic popularist stuff using any metric. The whole reason such tales make the news is BECAUSE they are very rare events.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    @Slackbladder.

    You want some help charting the unravelling of the immigration crap being spouted today?

    Queen's Speech: Jeremy Hunt 'unable' to explain how new immigration laws will work
    Plans to make landlords legally responsible for ensuring that they do not let properties to illegal immigrants were mired in confusion today after Jeremy Hunt refused to explain how the rules will actually work.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/queens-speech/10043203/Queens-Speech-Jeremy-Hunt-unable-to-explain-how-new-immigration-laws-will-work.html

    Falling apart already, and that's before they try and explain how passports are relevant to healthcare.

    On the Todya programme he simply said that they were working through the details and would publish the full legislation in due course.

    I don't recall the previous government publishing every draft bill in full on the same day as the Queen's Speech (may be I am wrong).

    More likely that you are creating a new - and ridiculous - standard to hold ministers to.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @GuidoFawkes: Ed Miliband screws up tribute to Fergie - http://guyfawk.es/18tejRU

    @MrHarryCole: I count about 500 twitter users who point out to Ed that Fergie is not dead.

    @David_Cameron: Sir Alex Ferguson’s achievement at #MUFC has been exceptional. Hopefully his retirement will make life a little easier for my team #AVFC
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    FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    edited May 2013
    Stop willy-waving. The Wiki image is 1871 and would have been negated by my mention, within post - remember that, hey - of the Austrian and Danish Wars. The image you require is supplied below...:



    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/Ac.prussiamap3.gif/300px-Ac.prussiamap3.gif

    One is happy to help....

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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    One does have to laugh at the naivety of pundits who praise Nigel Farage's 'plain-speaking'. His comments on the EEA are a masterpiece of obfuscation :

    "there is absolutely nothing to fear in terms of trade from leaving the European Union, because on D+1 we'll find ourselves part of the European Economic Area and with a free trade deal."

    .. which doesn't exactly chime with his comments on immigration, does it?

    http://www.efdgroup.eu/newsroom/item/eea-farage-s-response-to-pm-cameron.html

    http://www.udi.no/Norwegian-Directorate-of-Immigration/Central-topics/Work-and-residence/Work-and-residence-EUEEAEFTA-citizens/

    Because David Cameron has been oh so clear on what he wants to repatriate and what he doesn't? The CAP? The social chapter? Fisheries? I have no idea.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    samonipad said:

    tim said:

    @Slackbladder.

    You want some help charting the unravelling of the immigration crap being spouted today?

    Queen's Speech: Jeremy Hunt 'unable' to explain how new immigration laws will work
    Plans to make landlords legally responsible for ensuring that they do not let properties to illegal immigrants were mired in confusion today after Jeremy Hunt refused to explain how the rules will actually work.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/queens-speech/10043203/Queens-Speech-Jeremy-Hunt-unable-to-explain-how-new-immigration-laws-will-work.html

    Falling apart already, and that's before they try and explain how passports are relevant to healthcare.


    The only way any of this can be done is to leave the EU. Your analogy of chamomile tea and strong brew was spot on.
    But wouldn't the simplest proposal be just to include an immigration check in the housing benefit test? So landlords can let the properties to whoever they want, but they don't get paid by the state if the tenant shouldn't be there. This would then create a market incentive for the landlord to do their homework.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Why is BBC Parly carrying video with no sound of the QEII's speech? Very odd - feel rather sorry for James Langdale.
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    samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182
    tim said:

    @Sam

    The only way any of this can be done is to leave the EU.

    Leaving the EU is irrelevant if UKIP want to part be of the EEA

    so why would UKIP bother leaving?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    tim said:

    @TGOHF

    It'll excite the immigrant cat people, and I see ScottP, Awesome Speech Scott, is on the case, which rather proves my point.

    I see my creepy stalker and his man crush is on duty today. As every day. All day.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Scott_P said:



    @David_Cameron: Sir Alex Ferguson’s achievement at #MUFC has been exceptional. Hopefully his retirement will make life a little easier for my team #AVFC

    That is the right response. Whomever is penning his tweetfeed gets it.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    edited May 2013

    Stop willy-waving. The Wiki image is 1871 and would have been negated by my mention, within post - remember that, hey - of the Austrian and Danish Wars. The image you require is supplied below...:



    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/Ac.prussiamap3.gif/300px-Ac.prussiamap3.gif

    One is happy to help....



    Actually in 1871, Prussia became Germany (or The German Empire if you like), so a date of 1870 should be acceptabubble.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    @TGOHF

    It'll excite the immigrant cat people, and I see ScottP, Awesome Speech Scott, is on the case, which rather proves my point.

    Och - go on - say something nice about rEd - even if it's just his shoes or his tie - go on something without mentioning "not Eton"...


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    FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    Scott_P said:

    I see my creepy stalker and his man crush is on duty today. As every day. All day.

    Be nice Scott,

    I have sadly resigned myself to the fact that OGH's site is now funded by the "NHS Liverpool Pathway for Care-in-the-Community". We may be wasting our taxes but it keeps Wee-Timmy amused (and employs five Latvian 'care-workers')!

    :rejoice:
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    edited May 2013
    Plato said:

    Plato said:

    Dangerous dogs???

    BBC News (UK) ‏@BBCNews 1m

    Immigration, high-speed rail, cigarette packaging & dangerous dogs - what to expect in Queen's Speech http://bbc.in/10p0UDK #QueensSpeech

    Must be those Tory attack dogs?
    I just weep - a dog or two bites or worse their owner or a visitor and its legislated against? Let's stop co-habitation to stop domestic violence or car driving or falling off ladders or out of bed.

    The chances of being killed by a neighbour's dog or even your own is vanishingly small. It's pathetic popularist stuff using any metric. The whole reason such tales make the news is BECAUSE they are very rare events.
    I was bitten by a relative's dog in India when I was 6 (more than thirty years ago). As a precaution I needed Tetanus, plus a course of SEVEN rabies jabs in my stomach muscle in as many days. I still have the bite scar above my left knee. Needless to say I've been wary around dogs ever since.

    Cats are OK in my book, though!
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Well, it's a view - I find discriminating against anyone based on a single criterion of excellence really weird.

    As one of the country’s leading fertility experts, Lord Winston might be expected to surround himself with the brightest minds at work. But the Labour peer has admitted ‘deliberately’ discriminating against job applicants with first class degrees.

    Those that have fallen short of academic brilliance are often better employees because they are more rounded individuals who work well in a team, the scientist and The Human Body presenter claimed.

    ‘I know scientists who are amazingly stupid,’ he said. ‘And in my laboratory I have appointed scientists on the whole that didn’t get first-class honours degrees, deliberately, quite specifically, because, actually, I would rather have young people around me who developed other interests at university and didn’t just focus entirely on getting that first.

    ‘That’s been a very successful strategy. It’s produced a lot of useful science because we’ve worked as a group of friends, a team. That’s very much more important than almost anything else.’

    The comments, made to pupils from Clapton Girls Academy who were delegates of this year’s London International Youth Science Forum, may be influenced by Lord Winston’s own academic background.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2321056/Lord-Winston-Why-I-dont-employ-students-class-degrees.html#ixzz2Sh3OrnZ3
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704

    Scott_P said:

    I see my creepy stalker and his man crush is on duty today. As every day. All day.

    Be nice Scott,

    I have sadly resigned myself to the fact that OGH's site is now funded by the "NHS Liverpool Pathway for Care-in-the-Community". We may be wasting our taxes but it keeps Wee-Timmy amused (and employs five Latvian 'care-workers')!

    :rejoice:
    Timmy gets good value though... what else can you spend 16 hours a day at non-stop?.,.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    No sign of my double VAT on petfood idea ? It's green and will boost the nation's finances..

  • Options
    FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    edited May 2013

    Actually in 1871, Prussia became Germany (or The German Empire if you like), so a date of 1870 should be acceptabubble.

    :yawn:

    Conquests and incorporation are not analogous to nations nor states. England did not exists in Canuck-land, Oz, India or Scotland. The creation of the German state - in 1871 - was a reaction to Prussia, not the result of!

    Your medical training should recognise that! When a foreign host invades another cell it does not mean that the latter is the fore. It merely means...?

  • Options
    MarchesMarches Posts: 51
    There's a quote by someone clever then I to the effect that the elderly always feel like immigrants in their own land. The voting patterns above certainly set that out. UKIP have tapped into that quite well but I'd suggest that there's something of a disconnect between the [relatively] articulate advocates no to EU does not mean no to the world and what I see as the majority of their support which, although they could not say it, believe in autarky for the UK.

    To give my thoughts on [@Antifrank's] comments as to why the young let this happen, I'd look to a few things. Firstly, and most importantly, most young people's are looking to other things than politics - sex and employment amongst them - and, honestly, the sort of younger people who are into politics are the sort that you'd cross the street to avoid: think overkeen 18 year old standing as a LD candidate, student-grant type socialist workers or fat girls in taffeta dresses [YCs]. Secondly there is a practial issue of registration: when you are a student, knowing the processes for voter registration, let alone doing it, is something of a challenge. Finally, there may be a vicious circle in effect - the old (and the state-employed) vote therefore parties look to avoid pi**ing them off but that means that the burdens fall elsewhere, and where better than those who don't vote or don't fall into one of the priviliged classes.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Jemmo1
    First Thatcher dies, then Ferguson retires. Somewhere there is a Scouser with a lamp and one wish left.
  • Options
    samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182
    edited May 2013
    Marches said:

    There's a quote by someone clever then I to the effect that the elderly always feel like immigrants in their own land. The voting patterns above certainly set that out. UKIP have tapped into that quite well but I'd suggest that there's something of a disconnect between the [relatively] articulate advocates no to EU does not mean no to the world and what I see as the majority of their support which, although they could not say it, believe in autarky for the UK.

    To give my thoughts on [@Antifrank's] comments as to why the young let this happen, I'd look to a few things. Firstly, and most importantly, most young people's are looking to other things than politics - sex and employment amongst them - and, honestly, the sort of younger people who are into politics are the sort that you'd cross the street to avoid: think overkeen 18 year old standing as a LD candidate, student-grant type socialist workers or fat girls in taffeta dresses [YCs]. Secondly there is a practial issue of registration: when you are a student, knowing the processes for voter registration, let alone doing it, is something of a challenge. Finally, there may be a vicious circle in effect - the old (and the state-employed) vote therefore parties look to avoid pi**ing them off but that means that the burdens fall elsewhere, and where better than those who don't vote or don't fall into one of the priviliged classes.

    I'd be interested in hearing that quote if you find it. That's how I imagine old people must feel, and one of the reasons I changed my views on immigration 180*

    *not 360 as I originally said!
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Plato said:

    Plato said:

    Dangerous dogs???

    BBC News (UK) ‏@BBCNews 1m

    Immigration, high-speed rail, cigarette packaging & dangerous dogs - what to expect in Queen's Speech http://bbc.in/10p0UDK #QueensSpeech

    Must be those Tory attack dogs?
    I just weep - a dog or two bites or worse their owner or a visitor and its legislated against? Let's stop co-habitation to stop domestic violence or car driving or falling off ladders or out of bed.

    The chances of being killed by a neighbour's dog or even your own is vanishingly small. It's pathetic popularist stuff using any metric. The whole reason such tales make the news is BECAUSE they are very rare events.
    I was bitten by a relative's dog in India when I was 6 (more than thirty years ago). As a precaution I needed Tetanus, plus a course of SEVEN rabies jabs in my stomach muscle in as many days. I still have the bite scar above my left knee. Needless to say I've been wary around dogs ever since.

    Cats are OK in my book, though!
    Cat bites are nasty stuff if deep - I have a stock of antibiotics in the house in case I get bitten - within a few hours it becomes plain if one is affected/painful tracking up the arm etc - human bites are apparently also very nasty, fortunately I haven't met any toddlers or cannibals recently!
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Paul Waugh, PB Tory

    @paulwaugh: Looks like @Ed_Miliband getting a Twitterkicking for suggesting Sir Alex Ferguson is dead. #perilsoftweetingtributes
  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Plato said:

    Well, it's a view - I find discriminating against anyone based on a single criterion of excellence really weird.

    As one of the country’s leading fertility experts, Lord Winston might be expected to surround himself with the brightest minds at work. But the Labour peer has admitted ‘deliberately’ discriminating against job applicants with first class degrees.

    Those that have fallen short of academic brilliance are often better employees because they are more rounded individuals who work well in a team, the scientist and The Human Body presenter claimed.

    ‘I know scientists who are amazingly stupid,’ he said. ‘And in my laboratory I have appointed scientists on the whole that didn’t get first-class honours degrees, deliberately, quite specifically, because, actually, I would rather have young people around me who developed other interests at university and didn’t just focus entirely on getting that first.

    ‘That’s been a very successful strategy. It’s produced a lot of useful science because we’ve worked as a group of friends, a team. That’s very much more important than almost anything else.’

    The comments, made to pupils from Clapton Girls Academy who were delegates of this year’s London International Youth Science Forum, may be influenced by Lord Winston’s own academic background.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2321056/Lord-Winston-Why-I-dont-employ-students-class-degrees.html#ixzz2Sh3OrnZ3
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    How bizarre. At university, I played two sports, was involved in intra-university debates, went to the gym most days, hit the bars several nights a week, and also had time for a long-term relationship. I hadn't realised until today that my first-class degree meant I didn't have other interests.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @samonipad If you changed your views on immigration 360, you end up back where you started.
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    Bizarrely, Ed Miliband seems to be opposed to the government's plans on immigration on the gounds that they are not cracking down on legal immigration:

    I’m concerned that there don’t seem to be measures in what they’re proposing to crack down on employers who use legal migration to not pay the minimum wage, recruitment agencies that only hire from overseas, slum landlords that put lots of people in one house – legal migrants.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2013/may/08/queens-speech-2013-politics-live
  • Options
    samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182
    antifrank said:

    @samonipad If you changed your views on immigration 360, you end up back where you started.


    I just realised that! Haha ill edit it
  • Options
    FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    antifrank said:

    @samonipad If you changed your views on immigration 360, you end up back where you started.

    What?

    Despite time...?

  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311

    Actually in 1871, Prussia became Germany (or The German Empire if you like), so a date of 1870 should be acceptabubble.

    :yawn:

    Conquests and incorporation are not analogous to nations nor states. England did not exists in Canuck-land, Oz, India or Scotland. The creation of the German state - in 1871 - was a reaction to Prussia, not the result of!

    Your medical training should recognise that! When a foreign host invades another cell it does not mean that the latter is the fore. It merely means...?

    When did I say I was medically trained?

    BTW Prussia was a single Kingdom.

    BTW2 Forgot to quote the relative land areas!:

    Area of Englandistan: 130,000 sq. km.
    Area of Kingdom of Prussia (as was): 349,000 sq. Km.
    (apologies in advance for metric!)
  • Options
    samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182
    tim said:

    @Sam

    I changed my views on immigration 360

    If you had you'd stop rambling about white flight.

    I stand corrected!

    Not about white flight obviously, you have never moved me one inch from my original position. I just accept that you are a supporter of importing foreigners into communities whatever the feelings of the people who lived there, and won't accept the fact that they then do the frank bough.

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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    antifrank said:

    @samonipad If you changed your views on immigration 360, you end up back where you started.

    Must have moonwalked away...

  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
    Mr. Charles, I think page numbers are a bit of a bugger on most of the formats (ie they don't work properly because of the way e-books work compared to traditional books). On the plus side, I'm considering trying to self-publish the next book in electronic *and* physical format, so that would give you page numbers.
  • Options
    FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    Sunil,

    You are boring. You are wrong. Use whatever metric you wish.

    Study Nineteenth Century history. Look at what happened within England between 1860 and 1913. Comparing and contrasting England - an imperial power - with a nationalist movement that unified the non-liberal areas of the Holy Roman Empire is facile without facts.

    It is like talking to a SNat: In which way was Prussia bigger than England. Until you understand the question you will fail to understand Unionism and Conservatism.

    Grade: E.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Our economy is leaving the EU... behind.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeremy-warner/10040303/Britains-economy-is-fast-decoupling-from-Europe.html

    "While out in Washington recently, I asked a number of US commentators why it was that Britain was so widely seen as some kind of horrific caricature of fiscal austerity gone wrong, whereas, as far as I could see, there hadn't been much austerity, and relatively speaking, the UK economy wasn't performing that badly.

    Partly it was rhetoric, I was told. The UK Chancellor boasted of austerity even though he might be practising something else. Also it was to do with a number of high-profile American economics professors who take their cue from the shadow chancellor, Ed Balls.

    He studied under one of them, and would have got to know some of the others during his time as Gordon Brown's adviser. In my experience, the rhetoric and the facts are rarely the same, but strangely this old truism seems to have escaped parts of US academia."
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    hucks67 said:

    My take on this poll, is that the 60+ voters are looking at self interest and not of the country. They may have bought property when it was more affordable and be comfortable in their retirement. They would not be worried about leaving the EU, with the possible consequences of this affecting UK trade with the EU. Whereas those currently of working age, see the world differently. They are struggling with the costs of home ownership/costs of rent and the general costs of living. They don't get the winter fuel allowance and the free bus passes etc.

    People under 60 must make sure they use their vote, otherwise the 60 & overs may well decide the future of the UK, when it is not in the interests of the whole country. For far too long Labour and Tories have been buying elections, by bribing pensioners with state benefits. They know these are the most likely to vote and we see the biding war between these parties near an election. Remember in 2010, when Labour said the Tories were going to cut some benefits and Cameron reacted with absolute fury, guaranteeing that the Tories would keep them.

    15% of the 40-59 age group support UKIP, as do 10% of the 18-24 age group, according to this poll. They're all of working age.

    Among the over 60's, plenty are still working, and this proportion will increase, as people live longer and need to make ends meet, in the face of dwindling pensions.

    IMHO, it is the wealthiest voters who are least receptive to UKIP, including those who have done very well out of rising property prices. It's the voters who are worried about their children having a worse standard of living than their own who are most receptive to UKIP.



  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311

    Sunil,

    You are boring. You are wrong. Use whatever metric you wish.

    Study Nineteenth Century history. Look at what happened within England between 1860 and 1913. Comparing and contrasting England - an imperial power - with a nationalist movement that unified the non-liberal areas of the Holy Roman Empire is facile without facts.

    It is like talking to a SNat: In which way was Prussia bigger than England. Until you understand the question you will fail to understand Unionism and Conservatism.

    Grade: E.

    I have given you the area figures for Prussia and England (NOTE to our Dutch Denizens - England, not GB or the UK!). If you want to ignore the stats like our 'friend' Wee Timmy, be my guest, Liebling!
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    samonipad said:

    Marches said:

    There's a quote by someone clever then I to the effect that the elderly always feel like immigrants in their own land. The voting patterns above certainly set that out. UKIP have tapped into that quite well but I'd suggest that there's something of a disconnect between the [relatively] articulate advocates no to EU does not mean no to the world and what I see as the majority of their support which, although they could not say it, believe in autarky for the UK.

    To give my thoughts on [@Antifrank's] comments as to why the young let this happen, I'd look to a few things. Firstly, and most importantly, most young people's are looking to other things than politics - sex and employment amongst them - and, honestly, the sort of younger people who are into politics are the sort that you'd cross the street to avoid: think overkeen 18 year old standing as a LD candidate, student-grant type socialist workers or fat girls in taffeta dresses [YCs]. Secondly there is a practial issue of registration: when you are a student, knowing the processes for voter registration, let alone doing it, is something of a challenge. Finally, there may be a vicious circle in effect - the old (and the state-employed) vote therefore parties look to avoid pi**ing them off but that means that the burdens fall elsewhere, and where better than those who don't vote or don't fall into one of the priviliged classes.

    I'd be interested in hearing that quote if you find it. That's how I imagine old people must feel, and one of the reasons I changed my views on immigration 180*

    *not 360 as I originally said!
    These Essex boys!

    :)
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited May 2013
    Blimey. One meeelion people moved to Germany in 2012.

    Do they have a Germanic version of the Daily Mail?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22446774
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Anorak said:

    Blimey. One meeelion people moved to Germany in 2012.

    Do they have a Germanic version of the Daily Mail?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22446774

    Daily Heil?
  • Options
    samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182
    I can't have politicians moaning about immigrants from poorer countries all living in one house, sending money home etc while slum landlords make money out of it... What do they think is going to happen when Polish electricians are undercutting British ones by earning £60 a day, 7 days a week cash in hand? you can't live properly in the SE on that so they all live together in khazis.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755

    Sunil,

    You are boring. You are wrong. Use whatever metric you wish.

    Study Nineteenth Century history. Look at what happened within England between 1860 and 1913. Comparing and contrasting England - an imperial power - with a nationalist movement that unified the non-liberal areas of the Holy Roman Empire is facile without facts.

    It is like talking to a SNat: In which way was Prussia bigger than England. Until you understand the question you will fail to understand Unionism and Conservatism.

    Grade: E.

    I have given you the area figures for Prussia and England (NOTE to our Dutch Denizens - England, not GB or the UK!). If you want to ignore the stats like our 'friend' Wee Timmy, be my guest, Liebling!
    The kingdom of Prussia was at its maximum extent at the beginning of C19 just after it had partitioned Poland for the 3rd time and swallowed up Hanover.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    Anorak said:

    Blimey. One meeelion people moved to Germany in 2012.

    Do they have a Germanic version of the Daily Mail?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22446774

    Bild?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    And your third wish ; Manchester United appoint Paulo Di Canio as successor to Sir Alex.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    glassfet said:

    @SkyBet: Sports Personality of the Year? Sir Alex Ferguson now 11/4 to land the BBC award --> http://sky.me/18WRIun

    I'll happily lay him at 4/11 but i suspect he is longer on betfair.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755
    Anorak said:

    Blimey. One meeelion people moved to Germany in 2012.

    Do they have a Germanic version of the Daily Mail?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22446774

    I'm starting to wonder if there will be anybody left in Poland under the age of 30.

  • Options
    samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182

    samonipad said:

    Marches said:

    There's a quote by someone clever then I to the effect that the elderly always feel like immigrants in their own land. The voting patterns above certainly set that out. UKIP have tapped into that quite well but I'd suggest that there's something of a disconnect between the [relatively] articulate advocates no to EU does not mean no to the world and what I see as the majority of their support which, although they could not say it, believe in autarky for the UK.

    To give my thoughts on [@Antifrank's] comments as to why the young let this happen, I'd look to a few things. Firstly, and most importantly, most young people's are looking to other things than politics - sex and employment amongst them - and, honestly, the sort of younger people who are into politics are the sort that you'd cross the street to avoid: think overkeen 18 year old standing as a LD candidate, student-grant type socialist workers or fat girls in taffeta dresses [YCs]. Secondly there is a practial issue of registration: when you are a student, knowing the processes for voter registration, let alone doing it, is something of a challenge. Finally, there may be a vicious circle in effect - the old (and the state-employed) vote therefore parties look to avoid pi**ing them off but that means that the burdens fall elsewhere, and where better than those who don't vote or don't fall into one of the priviliged classes.

    I'd be interested in hearing that quote if you find it. That's how I imagine old people must feel, and one of the reasons I changed my views on immigration 180*

    *not 360 as I originally said!
    These Essex boys!

    :)
    Shu-ut u-up!

  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    That should have the posties whining into their final salary pension statements..
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited May 2013
    tim said:

    Anorak said:

    Blimey. One meeelion people moved to Germany in 2012.

    Do they have a Germanic version of the Daily Mail?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22446774

    Germany was getting desperate for immigration
    Interesting. That sort of demographic shift must apply to most of Northern Europe.

    Must really f*ck over the age-profile of the immigrants' countries of origin though. I'd hate to be responsible for the state pension scheme in Romania.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @journodave: Dave and Ed probably having top bants walking along, 'yeah, yeah, definitely Moyes, he's had a great run'
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    edited May 2013

    Sunil,

    You are boring. You are wrong. Use whatever metric you wish.

    Study Nineteenth Century history. Look at what happened within England between 1860 and 1913. Comparing and contrasting England - an imperial power - with a nationalist movement that unified the non-liberal areas of the Holy Roman Empire is facile without facts.

    It is like talking to a SNat: In which way was Prussia bigger than England. Until you understand the question you will fail to understand Unionism and Conservatism.

    Grade: E.

    I have given you the area figures for Prussia and England (NOTE to our Dutch Denizens - England, not GB or the UK!). If you want to ignore the stats like our 'friend' Wee Timmy, be my guest, Liebling!
    The kingdom of Prussia was at its maximum extent at the beginning of C19 just after it had partitioned Poland for the 3rd time and swallowed up Hanover.
    However it lost the area around Warsaw ("South Prussia") firstly to the Grand Duchy of Warsaw and then to Russia by the end of the Napoleonic era (1815). But gained territory in the west (Hanover, Schleswig et al.) by 1870.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    Ed, are the Glazers predators or producers?
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    Ed, are footballers tax avoiders?
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Financier said:

    In the YouGov poll of April 25/26 (http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/lhnabrjag7/YG-Archive-Pol-Sunday-Times-results-260413.pdf) NF was the only party leader to have net positive ratings.

    But the question asked was "Do you think that Nigel Farage is doing well or badly as leader of the UK Independence Party", which is a very different question to that of leading the UK.

    However, when asked, "Do you think each of the following would make a better or worse Prime Minister than David
    Cameron?", only 11% thought NF would be better and 40% thought he would be worse (19% said neither and 30% were DK). Only 58% of the UKIPers thought he would be better.

    So far, I have not been able to find a poll about that quality - leadership - which has been a strong topic recently - for any present or potential PM. Can any PBer point me in the right direction?

    You have to ask people questions they can answer in a meaningful way.

    It's as clear as day that Nigel Farage is doing well as leader of UKIP, much as I dislike UKIP as a party and distrust Farage. That's why the YouGov question is pointless, and the MORI approve/disapprove more meaningful.

    I'm not sure I could accurately judge whether someone had leadership qualities based on a hypothetical question. It seems pretty clear that Cameron has not risen to the particularly demanding situation he has found himself in, but there isn't enough evidence to judge either way for Miliband, Farage, et al.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    dr_spyn said:

    Ed, are the Glazers predators or producers?

    Predator. Never trust a man with a chin-strap beard. Just creepy.
  • Options
    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Sean_F said:

    hucks67 said:

    My take on this poll, is that the 60+ voters are looking at self interest and not of the country. They may have bought property when it was more affordable and be comfortable in their retirement. They would not be worried about leaving the EU, with the possible consequences of this affecting UK trade with the EU. Whereas those currently of working age, see the world differently. They are struggling with the costs of home ownership/costs of rent and the general costs of living. They don't get the winter fuel allowance and the free bus passes etc.

    People under 60 must make sure they use their vote, otherwise the 60 & overs may well decide the future of the UK, when it is not in the interests of the whole country. For far too long Labour and Tories have been buying elections, by bribing pensioners with state benefits. They know these are the most likely to vote and we see the biding war between these parties near an election. Remember in 2010, when Labour said the Tories were going to cut some benefits and Cameron reacted with absolute fury, guaranteeing that the Tories would keep them.

    15% of the 40-59 age group support UKIP, as do 10% of the 18-24 age group, according to this poll. They're all of working age.

    Among the over 60's, plenty are still working, and this proportion will increase, as people live longer and need to make ends meet, in the face of dwindling pensions.

    IMHO, it is the wealthiest voters who are least receptive to UKIP, including those who have done very well out of rising property prices. It's the voters who are worried about their children having a worse standard of living than their own who are most receptive to UKIP.
    In this poll, 73% of UKIP supporters consider the economy the most important issue.

    1. immigration
    2. economy
    3. EU

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4918911/Brits-wake-up-to-UKIP.html
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Anorak said:

    tim said:

    Anorak said:

    Blimey. One meeelion people moved to Germany in 2012.

    Do they have a Germanic version of the Daily Mail?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22446774

    Germany was getting desperate for immigration
    Interesting. That sort of demographic shift must apply to most of Northern Europe.

    Must really f*ck over the age-profile of the immigrants' countries of origin though. I'd hate to be responsible for the state pension scheme in Romania.
    This is my thought. Why are Romania and Bulgaria so keen on a system that encourages their brightest and best to migrate? Surely it is in their interests to be in the EU but with restricted migration rights. When their economies have converged with the EU average the border controls could be relaxed and there would be much fewer disruptive population shifts, and much more viable economies.
This discussion has been closed.