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  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,322
    edited 2:48PM

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Rachel Reeves set to announce a Mansion Tax in the Budget and a charge of 1% on the value of all properties worth over £2 million
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15228277/Mervyn-King-Rachel-Reeves-incoherent-mansion-tax.html

    The Government is also considering raising the top rate of income tax, with the additional rate possibly rising from 45p in the £ back to 50p as it was when Brown left office in 2010 or the threshold for the additional rate being reduced to £110k

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tax-budget-income-rachel-reeves-chancellor-b2847002.html

    How do they intend to value houses to determine which are worth more than £2m?

    My Dad bought a substantial house in London with his second wife in 1997 for £325k. The house next door sold for £1.88m in 2022, so my Dad's house could be worth £2m (but it probably isn't because it's not in as good internal condition, though that might not matter, depending on the method of valuation).

    I reckon a £20k pa tax would actually cause him to seriously consider downsizing.
    The proposal is a tax on the proportion of value above £2m, not the entire value.
    That sounds like a now-classical Rachel Reeves de-minimus failure of making almost zero difference, whilst causing as much political self-damage as possible.

    The Treasury Civil Servant said: "Bend Over, Bend Over", so RR Bent Over and ...

    It would be far easier to roll it into a flat % of Value Council Tax, pump a little bit less extra money in to Councils from central funds, and make a move to restoring Stamp Duty to a lower level (say a reduction by 25-50%).

    If a bit more is required, then put a 50p a day levy on supermarket and out of town centre car parking spaces, to incentivise their efficient use, increasing to £1 next year. That's perhaps £1-3 billion of low-hanging fruit, and would tip the balance towards town centres. There's a defensible case to hypothecate such finds to active travel and accessible public transport, as that would over time reduce the need for such spaces.
    What possible justification is there to do that?

    Your hatred of private transport seeths through yet again.

    It is up to supermarkets and out of town shopping centres to determine how their land is efficiently used, people paying to be there all day rather than having a lot of turnover is probably NOT efficient.
    Not really; it's a fairly modest proposal.

    I love private transport, but I prefer to prioritise scarce resources for efficient users, and to give some weight to equality.
    But the reason the town centres are dying, is because the councils are restricting and charging for parking. To put it bluntly they see cars as a revenue source, especially cars from out of town. So the car owners from out of town go elsewhere, or order from Amazon.

    No, a new cycle lane won’t make me take the bike to do my week’s shopping.

    Secure cycle parking might encourage people to use the cinema though.
    I do my week's shopping on my bike, FYI. So do lots of people in areas with good cycle infrastructure. I pick up stuff like milk and eggs by walking round to the corner shop.
    I am assuming (forgive me if I am wrong) that you are not shopping for a family of 4.
    Nor are most people. Average household size in the UK is 2.4. I'm just going to get a cargo bike when that time comes, or else pop into Morrisons on the way back from work twice a week rather than once.
    You claimed to be in favour of 'equality' yet now claim only that 'most people' matter.

    Families of 4 are people too and need equality too.

    I do the weekly shop for my family of 4 every Sunday at the out of town supermarket. I get a list of food that my wife and 2 kids want for the week ahead (eldest sometimes comes with me) and pick it all up in one go, that takes about an hour and a half, and only 1 journey for all 4 of us for an entire week. Taking no space at all in town.

    That's extremely efficient.
    You've mixed up Matt and me.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,153

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Rachel Reeves set to announce a Mansion Tax in the Budget and a charge of 1% on the value of all properties worth over £2 million
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15228277/Mervyn-King-Rachel-Reeves-incoherent-mansion-tax.html

    The Government is also considering raising the top rate of income tax, with the additional rate possibly rising from 45p in the £ back to 50p as it was when Brown left office in 2010 or the threshold for the additional rate being reduced to £110k

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tax-budget-income-rachel-reeves-chancellor-b2847002.html

    Funny how each paper (and it goes beyond these two) has ‘insiders’ telling them completely different things.
    The general trend though is clear, Starmer and Reeves are going to hit the rich and their assets more, private sector professionals and their earnings more and the highest income tax payers more.

    This is of course entirely to do with economics and nothing whatsoever to do with Starmer's candidate losing the Labour leadership yesterday and Plaid winning the Caerphilly by election and he needing to throw some red meat to the Labour membership to stop them shifting further to Burnham and to keep Labour's core vote from going further to the Greens and Plaid!
    It's entirely to do with the government being skint and needing to raise some extra funds for all the things they want to spend money on.

    Every political party prefers to cut taxes, and you can be as political with the taxes you choose to cut as with the taxes you choose to raise.
    They are a pair of weapons who will destroy the country's finances. Neither could run a bath having never had a real job between them.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,878
    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Rachel Reeves set to announce a Mansion Tax in the Budget and a charge of 1% on the value of all properties worth over £2 million
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15228277/Mervyn-King-Rachel-Reeves-incoherent-mansion-tax.html

    The Government is also considering raising the top rate of income tax, with the additional rate possibly rising from 45p in the £ back to 50p as it was when Brown left office in 2010 or the threshold for the additional rate being reduced to £110k

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tax-budget-income-rachel-reeves-chancellor-b2847002.html

    How do they intend to value houses to determine which are worth more than £2m?

    My Dad bought a substantial house in London with his second wife in 1997 for £325k. The house next door sold for £1.88m in 2022, so my Dad's house could be worth £2m (but it probably isn't because it's not in as good internal condition, though that might not matter, depending on the method of valuation).

    I reckon a £20k pa tax would actually cause him to seriously consider downsizing.
    Rachel will say that’s exactly what she wants to see happen, people downsizing. She’ll pick up a chunk of stamp duty on two more sales as well.

    Just ignore that your father has lived there all his life, in a house he owns, and now he’s told by the government that he’s too poor to keep living there.
    That's exactly how it feels to be living in a flat in Middlesbrough though - they are sometimes paying 2.5% of their property value in council tax.
    I was paying 4% in my previous property.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,369
    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,743

    Companies that donated to Labour awarded £138m in contracts
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/26/companies-that-donated-to-labour-awarded-138m-in-contracts-study-finds

    At least the Americans get a new ballroom.

    The adults are back in charge
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,369

    Roger said:

    kinabalu said:

    The BBC are utterly obsessed with this sex pest migrant who seems to have been set free very much against his will. No doubt they’ll be reporting shortly on pitchfork wielding vigilantes inspired by their hysteria.
    Anyone on the darker side of the racist colour chart should avoid carrying a shopping bag decorated with avocados.

    It's totally ridiculous.
    "The Etheopian"

    An Etheopian English teacher decides to migrate to the UK. He arrives in a small boat and is put in a detention centre

    Bored he sits on a wall outside the centre and makes small talk with a couple of bored local school girls.

    He makes a lewd joke

    The police are called

    Word gets out and a far right mob mob mobilise and threaten the centre

    The man is charged with an attemted grope and is jailed for 12 months

    The prison authorities mistakenly release him after two

    He asks if he can serve the rest of his sentence as he has no place to go

    The prison authorities say no.

    They drop him protesting at a local railway station with no money.

    All ports and airports are alerted. A dangerous criminal is on the loose

    A terrified population lock up their daughters........


    What do you think Mr De Milne? Will it fly......
    He tried to kiss the 14 year old. Read her testimony.
    Would that be classed as a sexual assault?
    Yes.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,665

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
  • isamisam Posts: 42,885

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:
    What a bunch of cry babies. A smallish party with a charismatic leader is leading the polls of course they are going to get publicity.

    Strange mindset from these centrists; they can't have proportional coverage of politics based on what is actually happening, but insist on disproportional representations of the demographic in advertising
    Disproportionality rather depends upon what role is being played.

    Take Nationwide for example, they currently have a campaign of an incompetent, out of touch head of a random bank and his long suffering but competent underling.

    A minority individual has no chance of being cast as the incompetent banker, they have to settle for being the competent and overlooked underling.
    That advert was cited in the Pochin row. It made me think it would be a good ruse for an actor to take a really unsympathetic role and then play a public figure they didn't like so the two would be conflated. People are saying the Head of that bank in the ad is a bit like Farage, but the actor playing him was Prince Charles in The Crown
  • isamisam Posts: 42,885

    I see Roman Polanski defender Roger is making light of the Epping sex offender. No surprise there.

    I have a real problem with left wing 'blokes'.

    'Tres' is also on the record criticising the snowflakes amongst our female population who don't take kindly to the odd friendly grope.
    Farage did call a radio presenter "love" the other day, so he is just as bad as the Epping Immigrant really
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,743
    isam said:

    I see Roman Polanski defender Roger is making light of the Epping sex offender. No surprise there.

    I have a real problem with left wing 'blokes'.

    'Tres' is also on the record criticising the snowflakes amongst our female population who don't take kindly to the odd friendly grope.
    Farage did call a radio presenter "love" the other day, so he is just as bad as the Epping Immigrant really
    Worse.

    So many people took offence on her behalf too which was most gallant of them. Especially as she’d not been too concerned about it at the time.

    It’s a shame Sadiq Khan wasn’t on hand to say ‘maaaate’
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,743

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Did he predict a riot ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,785
    isam said:

    I see Roman Polanski defender Roger is making light of the Epping sex offender. No surprise there.

    I have a real problem with left wing 'blokes'.

    'Tres' is also on the record criticising the snowflakes amongst our female population who don't take kindly to the odd friendly grope.
    Farage did call a radio presenter "love" the other day, so he is just as bad as the Epping Immigrant really
    How did Ferrari react to that?
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,743
    dixiedean said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Rachel Reeves set to announce a Mansion Tax in the Budget and a charge of 1% on the value of all properties worth over £2 million
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15228277/Mervyn-King-Rachel-Reeves-incoherent-mansion-tax.html

    The Government is also considering raising the top rate of income tax, with the additional rate possibly rising from 45p in the £ back to 50p as it was when Brown left office in 2010 or the threshold for the additional rate being reduced to £110k

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tax-budget-income-rachel-reeves-chancellor-b2847002.html

    How do they intend to value houses to determine which are worth more than £2m?

    My Dad bought a substantial house in London with his second wife in 1997 for £325k. The house next door sold for £1.88m in 2022, so my Dad's house could be worth £2m (but it probably isn't because it's not in as good internal condition, though that might not matter, depending on the method of valuation).

    I reckon a £20k pa tax would actually cause him to seriously consider downsizing.
    Rachel will say that’s exactly what she wants to see happen, people downsizing. She’ll pick up a chunk of stamp duty on two more sales as well.

    Just ignore that your father has lived there all his life, in a house he owns, and now he’s told by the government that he’s too poor to keep living there.
    That's exactly how it feels to be living in a flat in Middlesbrough though - they are sometimes paying 2.5% of their property value in council tax.
    I was paying 4% in my previous property.
    We are just under 1%
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,537
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    Unless they deliberately exposed a load of contractors to airborne asbestos fibres, that's really not consistent with the speed at which they tore it down.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,670
    I don’t think people have fully cottoned on to the fact that the new ballroom will be nearly TWICE the size of the main White House.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,310
    malcolmg said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Rachel Reeves set to announce a Mansion Tax in the Budget and a charge of 1% on the value of all properties worth over £2 million
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15228277/Mervyn-King-Rachel-Reeves-incoherent-mansion-tax.html

    The Government is also considering raising the top rate of income tax, with the additional rate possibly rising from 45p in the £ back to 50p as it was when Brown left office in 2010 or the threshold for the additional rate being reduced to £110k

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tax-budget-income-rachel-reeves-chancellor-b2847002.html

    How do they intend to value houses to determine which are worth more than £2m?

    My Dad bought a substantial house in London with his second wife in 1997 for £325k. The house next door sold for £1.88m in 2022, so my Dad's house could be worth £2m (but it probably isn't because it's not in as good internal condition, though that might not matter, depending on the method of valuation).

    I reckon a £20k pa tax would actually cause him to seriously consider downsizing.
    The proposal is a tax on the proportion of value above £2m, not the entire value.
    That sounds like a now-classical Rachel Reeves de-minimus failure of making almost zero difference, whilst causing as much political self-damage as possible.

    The Treasury Civil Servant said: "Bend Over, Bend Over", so RR Bent Over and ...

    It would be far easier to roll it into a flat % of Value Council Tax, pump a little bit less extra money in to Councils from central funds, and make a move to restoring Stamp Duty to a lower level (say a reduction by 25-50%).

    If a bit more is required, then put a 50p a day levy on supermarket and out of town centre car parking spaces, to incentivise their efficient use, increasing to £1 next year. That's perhaps £1-3 billion of low-hanging fruit, and would tip the balance towards town centres. There's a defensible case to hypothecate such finds to active travel and accessible public transport, as that would over time reduce the need for such spaces.
    What possible justification is there to do that?

    Your hatred of private transport seeths through yet again.

    It is up to supermarkets and out of town shopping centres to determine how their land is efficiently used, people paying to be there all day rather than having a lot of turnover is probably NOT efficient.
    Not really; it's a fairly modest proposal.

    I love private transport, but I prefer to prioritise scarce resources for efficient users, and to give some weight to equality.
    But the reason the town centres are dying, is because the councils are restricting and charging for parking. To put it bluntly they see cars as a revenue source, especially cars from out of town. So the car owners from out of town go elsewhere, or order from Amazon.

    No, a new cycle lane won’t make me take the bike to do my week’s shopping.

    Secure cycle parking might encourage people to use the cinema though.
    I do my week's shopping on my bike, FYI. So do lots of people in areas with good cycle infrastructure. I pick up stuff like milk and eggs by walking round to the corner shop.
    I am assuming (forgive me if I am wrong) that you are not shopping for a family of 4.
    Nor are most people. Average household size in the UK is 2.4. I'm just going to get a cargo bike when that time comes, or else pop into Morrisons on the way back from work twice a week rather than once.
    You claimed to be in favour of 'equality' yet now claim only that 'most people' matter.

    Families of 4 are people too and need equality too.

    I do the weekly shop for my family of 4 every Sunday at the out of town supermarket. I get a list of food that my wife and 2 kids want for the week ahead (eldest sometimes comes with me) and pick it all up in one go, that takes about an hour and a half, and only 1 journey for all 4 of us for an entire week. Taking no space at all in town.

    That's extremely efficient.
    What absolute nutjob suggested fining people going to Aldi to get food.
    A rare moment you and I can agree.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,369
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    I deal with asbestos stripping companies and I have never ever seen a demolition without the careful removal of asbestos insulation within air regulated enclosures prior to the removal of the building. So the procedure is remove the asbestos and then demolish the building or remove the asbestos and refurbish the building. Smashing it down with nibblers to leave a big pile of asbestos contaminated demolition waste would in our country breach the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012 and require ALL the construction rubble to be deposited in a (hazardous) asbestos only landfill cell.

    So what Bessant has suggested is an absolute crock.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,764
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    A massive cockup to hide an enormous cock, with a very small cock.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,665

    So what Bessant has suggested is an absolute crock.

    Well, yeah, he's on TV and his lips are moving...
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,310
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Rachel Reeves set to announce a Mansion Tax in the Budget and a charge of 1% on the value of all properties worth over £2 million
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15228277/Mervyn-King-Rachel-Reeves-incoherent-mansion-tax.html

    The Government is also considering raising the top rate of income tax, with the additional rate possibly rising from 45p in the £ back to 50p as it was when Brown left office in 2010 or the threshold for the additional rate being reduced to £110k

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tax-budget-income-rachel-reeves-chancellor-b2847002.html

    How do they intend to value houses to determine which are worth more than £2m?

    My Dad bought a substantial house in London with his second wife in 1997 for £325k. The house next door sold for £1.88m in 2022, so my Dad's house could be worth £2m (but it probably isn't because it's not in as good internal condition, though that might not matter, depending on the method of valuation).

    I reckon a £20k pa tax would actually cause him to seriously consider downsizing.
    The proposal is a tax on the proportion of value above £2m, not the entire value.
    That sounds like a now-classical Rachel Reeves de-minimus failure of making almost zero difference, whilst causing as much political self-damage as possible.

    The Treasury Civil Servant said: "Bend Over, Bend Over", so RR Bent Over and ...

    It would be far easier to roll it into a flat % of Value Council Tax, pump a little bit less extra money in to Councils from central funds, and make a move to restoring Stamp Duty to a lower level (say a reduction by 25-50%).

    If a bit more is required, then put a 50p a day levy on supermarket and out of town centre car parking spaces, to incentivise their efficient use, increasing to £1 next year. That's perhaps £1-3 billion of low-hanging fruit, and would tip the balance towards town centres. There's a defensible case to hypothecate such finds to active travel and accessible public transport, as that would over time reduce the need for such spaces.
    What possible justification is there to do that?

    Your hatred of private transport seeths through yet again.

    It is up to supermarkets and out of town shopping centres to determine how their land is efficiently used, people paying to be there all day rather than having a lot of turnover is probably NOT efficient.
    Not really; it's a fairly modest proposal.

    I love private transport, but I prefer to prioritise scarce resources for efficient users, and to give some weight to equality.
    But the reason the town centres are dying, is because the councils are restricting and charging for parking. To put it bluntly they see cars as a revenue source, especially cars from out of town. So the car owners from out of town go elsewhere, or order from Amazon.

    No, a new cycle lane won’t make me take the bike to do my week’s shopping.

    Secure cycle parking might encourage people to use the cinema though.
    I do my week's shopping on my bike, FYI. So do lots of people in areas with good cycle infrastructure. I pick up stuff like milk and eggs by walking round to the corner shop.
    I am assuming (forgive me if I am wrong) that you are not shopping for a family of 4.
    Nor are most people. Average household size in the UK is 2.4. I'm just going to get a cargo bike when that time comes, or else pop into Morrisons on the way back from work twice a week rather than once.
    You claimed to be in favour of 'equality' yet now claim only that 'most people' matter.

    Families of 4 are people too and need equality too.

    I do the weekly shop for my family of 4 every Sunday at the out of town supermarket. I get a list of food that my wife and 2 kids want for the week ahead (eldest sometimes comes with me) and pick it all up in one go, that takes about an hour and a half, and only 1 journey for all 4 of us for an entire week. Taking no space at all in town.

    That's extremely efficient.
    You've mixed up Matt and me.
    Fair enough, so you're not claiming to like equality and don't want equality for families of 4?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,670
    Adverts and tv shows cast minorities because it is culturally unacceptable to do otherwise.

    It’s not about economics, or the market, it’s simply the prevailing ideology in western societies, and probably stronger in the UK than most anywhere else.

    Every era has its own idea of what is acceptable to portray as “normal” on screen. In a previous era it was middle-class nuclear families, and working class characters were considered comic. (There is still some of this - in children’s cartoons for example, a gang of crooks invariably have a comic cockney accent).

    It doesn’t feel like an especially pernicious issue.
    And, if one were to criticise this, you’d sound like a nutter.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,785
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    Poor America is going to need quite a clean-up, isn't it. No easy task for whoever it falls to.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,850
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    It probably did, but the whole point about asbestos is it's more or less harmless as long as you leave it where it is.

    It only becomes dangerous if you smash it up, which would only happen if some useless knob end decided on a whim to demolish the building it was...oh dear.
    Further, it would almost certainly be white asbestos. Which is about as bad for you as fibre glass fibres from lagging.

    That is, both will give you lung cancer if you spend lots of time chopping it up and breathing the resultant airborne micro-fibres.

    But if you leave them alone, they won’t.

    So kids, don’t eat the lagging in the loft.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,101

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    I deal with asbestos stripping companies and I have never ever seen a demolition without the careful removal of asbestos insulation within air regulated enclosures prior to the removal of the building. So the procedure is remove the asbestos and then demolish the building or remove the asbestos and refurbish the building. Smashing it down with nibblers to leave a big pile of asbestos contaminated demolition waste would in our country breach the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012 and require ALL the construction rubble to be deposited in a (hazardous) asbestos only landfill cell.

    So what Bessant has suggested is an absolute crock.
    Yeh, but Trump doesn't like woke red tape measures like those.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,369
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Did he predict a riot ?
    No but the Lincoln Project are part of "the Angry Mob".
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,670
    edited 3:29PM
    For years I have been hearing about village town centres in decline.

    It doesn’t quite seem to be the case in the U.S. where in fact the decline now seems to be in out of town strip malls.

    In France, too, the Carrefour hyperstore seems to co-exist with charming village centres.

    I’m not disputing that big box retail and ecommerce have between them had a massive impact, but there seems to be something else going on too.

    Probably the complete collapse in local planning capability that has been ongoing since at least the Thatcher era. Local government as understood overseas barely exists now in the UK.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,764

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    I deal with asbestos stripping companies and I have never ever seen a demolition without the careful removal of asbestos insulation within air regulated enclosures prior to the removal of the building. So the procedure is remove the asbestos and then demolish the building or remove the asbestos and refurbish the building. Smashing it down with nibblers to leave a big pile of asbestos contaminated demolition waste would in our country breach the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012 and require ALL the construction rubble to be deposited in a (hazardous) asbestos only landfill cell.

    So what Bessant has suggested is an absolute crock.
    Yeh, but Trump doesn't like woke red tape measures like those.
    If his entire family and cabinet die of asbestosis that would be an epic example of karma.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,733
    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Rachel Reeves set to announce a Mansion Tax in the Budget and a charge of 1% on the value of all properties worth over £2 million
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15228277/Mervyn-King-Rachel-Reeves-incoherent-mansion-tax.html

    The Government is also considering raising the top rate of income tax, with the additional rate possibly rising from 45p in the £ back to 50p as it was when Brown left office in 2010 or the threshold for the additional rate being reduced to £110k

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tax-budget-income-rachel-reeves-chancellor-b2847002.html

    How do they intend to value houses to determine which are worth more than £2m?

    My Dad bought a substantial house in London with his second wife in 1997 for £325k. The house next door sold for £1.88m in 2022, so my Dad's house could be worth £2m (but it probably isn't because it's not in as good internal condition, though that might not matter, depending on the method of valuation).

    I reckon a £20k pa tax would actually cause him to seriously consider downsizing.
    Rachel will say that’s exactly what she wants to see happen, people downsizing. She’ll pick up a chunk of stamp duty on two more sales as well.

    Just ignore that your father has lived there all his life, in a house he owns, and now he’s told by the government that he’s too poor to keep living there.
    That's exactly how it feels to be living in a flat in Middlesbrough though - they are sometimes paying 2.5% of their property value in council tax.
    I was paying 4% in my previous property.
    We are just under 1%
    These sort of proposals will take ages to put in place due to the need for revaluations and potential disputes etc over revaluation

    What will raise money much more quickly will be some sort of adjustment to the Council tax multiplier for the higher bands so we might see Bands E and F pay 10% more, G 15% more and H 25% more than what they currently pay. I believe something like this happened in Scotland a little while ago. Easy to bring on for 2026/7. It still doesn't address the underlying issues of Council tax valuation though and still allows those living in really expensive properties to pay relatively little in comparison with their property worth
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,209
    Just got home to two emails from Amazon. One says Your package is out for delivery and the other says Delivery is expected by Thursday January 1st.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,369
    edited 3:36PM
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    I deal with asbestos stripping companies and I have never ever seen a demolition without the careful removal of asbestos insulation within air regulated enclosures prior to the removal of the building. So the procedure is remove the asbestos and then demolish the building or remove the asbestos and refurbish the building. Smashing it down with nibblers to leave a big pile of asbestos contaminated demolition waste would in our country breach the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012 and require ALL the construction rubble to be deposited in a (hazardous) asbestos only landfill cell.

    So what Bessant has suggested is an absolute crock.
    Yeh, but Trump doesn't like woke red tape measures like those.
    If his entire family and cabinet die of asbestosis that would be an epic example of karma.
    It's OK.

    Chrysotile may be extremely dangerous in the UK, but for the next 11 years is still safe to use in new build US industrial construction.

    From Wikipedia: "As of March 2024, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency finalized regulations banning imports of chrysotile asbestos (effective immediately) due to its link to lung cancer and mesothelioma. However, the new rules can allow up to a dozen years to phase out the use of chrysotile asbestos in some manufacturing facilities.[28] The long phase-out period was a result of a strong lobby by Olin Corporation, a major chemical manufacturer, as well as trade groups like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the American Chemistry Council. Chrysotile asbestos is now banned in more than 50 other countries".


  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,635
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:
    What a bunch of cry babies. A smallish party with a charismatic leader is leading the polls of course they are going to get publicity.

    Strange mindset from these centrists; they can't have proportional coverage of politics based on what is actually happening, but insist on disproportional representations of the demographic in advertising
    Disproportionality rather depends upon what role is being played.

    Take Nationwide for example, they currently have a campaign of an incompetent, out of touch head of a random bank and his long suffering but competent underling.

    A minority individual has no chance of being cast as the incompetent banker, they have to settle for being the competent and overlooked underling.
    That advert was cited in the Pochin row. It made me think it would be a good ruse for an actor to take a really unsympathetic role and then play a public figure they didn't like so the two would be conflated. People are saying the Head of that bank in the ad is a bit like Farage, but the actor playing him was Prince Charles in The Crown
    He also played hard nut McNulty in The Wire quite convincingly so he has range.
    I quite like those ads, ‘muffin me is’ a good line. The latest one has West all spiffed up to receive an award for best high street bank or some such, champagne on tap, balloons and advertising blimp; of course Nationwide wins. Did remind me a bit of Farage, Reform and Caerphilly..

    That’s a big tent for a branch meeting.




    https://x.com/llyrpowell/status/1982188431728893983?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,743
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    Poor America is going to need quite a clean-up, isn't it. No easy task for whoever it falls to.
    Kamala is ready to serve.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,743

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Did he predict a riot ?
    No but the Lincoln Project are part of "the Angry Mob".
    Every day they love him less and less
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,743

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Rachel Reeves set to announce a Mansion Tax in the Budget and a charge of 1% on the value of all properties worth over £2 million
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15228277/Mervyn-King-Rachel-Reeves-incoherent-mansion-tax.html

    The Government is also considering raising the top rate of income tax, with the additional rate possibly rising from 45p in the £ back to 50p as it was when Brown left office in 2010 or the threshold for the additional rate being reduced to £110k

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tax-budget-income-rachel-reeves-chancellor-b2847002.html

    How do they intend to value houses to determine which are worth more than £2m?

    My Dad bought a substantial house in London with his second wife in 1997 for £325k. The house next door sold for £1.88m in 2022, so my Dad's house could be worth £2m (but it probably isn't because it's not in as good internal condition, though that might not matter, depending on the method of valuation).

    I reckon a £20k pa tax would actually cause him to seriously consider downsizing.
    Rachel will say that’s exactly what she wants to see happen, people downsizing. She’ll pick up a chunk of stamp duty on two more sales as well.

    Just ignore that your father has lived there all his life, in a house he owns, and now he’s told by the government that he’s too poor to keep living there.
    That's exactly how it feels to be living in a flat in Middlesbrough though - they are sometimes paying 2.5% of their property value in council tax.
    I was paying 4% in my previous property.
    We are just under 1%
    These sort of proposals will take ages to put in place due to the need for revaluations and potential disputes etc over revaluation

    What will raise money much more quickly will be some sort of adjustment to the Council tax multiplier for the higher bands so we might see Bands E and F pay 10% more, G 15% more and H 25% more than what they currently pay. I believe something like this happened in Scotland a little while ago. Easy to bring on for 2026/7. It still doesn't address the underlying issues of Council tax valuation though and still allows those living in really expensive properties to pay relatively little in comparison with their property worth
    And there’s the rub because they don’t have the time. The need is immediate.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,369
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    Poor America is going to need quite a clean-up, isn't it. No easy task for whoever it falls to.
    Kamala is ready to serve.
    ...as a waitress in the Epstein Ballroom?
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,743
    edited 3:46PM

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    Poor America is going to need quite a clean-up, isn't it. No easy task for whoever it falls to.
    Kamala is ready to serve.
    ...as a waitress in the Epstein Ballroom?

    Would she serve the drinks or neck them ? 🤔

    I worked in the Shirley legion for a time. Shutters down, time for a top shelf shuffle,
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,733
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Rachel Reeves set to announce a Mansion Tax in the Budget and a charge of 1% on the value of all properties worth over £2 million
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15228277/Mervyn-King-Rachel-Reeves-incoherent-mansion-tax.html

    The Government is also considering raising the top rate of income tax, with the additional rate possibly rising from 45p in the £ back to 50p as it was when Brown left office in 2010 or the threshold for the additional rate being reduced to £110k

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tax-budget-income-rachel-reeves-chancellor-b2847002.html

    How do they intend to value houses to determine which are worth more than £2m?

    My Dad bought a substantial house in London with his second wife in 1997 for £325k. The house next door sold for £1.88m in 2022, so my Dad's house could be worth £2m (but it probably isn't because it's not in as good internal condition, though that might not matter, depending on the method of valuation).

    I reckon a £20k pa tax would actually cause him to seriously consider downsizing.
    Rachel will say that’s exactly what she wants to see happen, people downsizing. She’ll pick up a chunk of stamp duty on two more sales as well.

    Just ignore that your father has lived there all his life, in a house he owns, and now he’s told by the government that he’s too poor to keep living there.
    That's exactly how it feels to be living in a flat in Middlesbrough though - they are sometimes paying 2.5% of their property value in council tax.
    I was paying 4% in my previous property.
    We are just under 1%
    These sort of proposals will take ages to put in place due to the need for revaluations and potential disputes etc over revaluation

    What will raise money much more quickly will be some sort of adjustment to the Council tax multiplier for the higher bands so we might see Bands E and F pay 10% more, G 15% more and H 25% more than what they currently pay. I believe something like this happened in Scotland a little while ago. Easy to bring on for 2026/7. It still doesn't address the underlying issues of Council tax valuation though and still allows those living in really expensive properties to pay relatively little in comparison with their property worth
    And there’s the rub because they don’t have the time. The need is immediate.
    Absolutely. So they could do something like what I have suggested as an interim step to get more money in quickly while allowing time for a considered new approach to property tax to be implemented which might take 5 years.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,733
    And of course we could have 3x Council tax loading on second and subsequent properties which would be easy and quick to implement 👍
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,850

    For years I have been hearing about village town centres in decline.

    It doesn’t quite seem to be the case in the U.S. where in fact the decline now seems to be in out of town strip malls.

    In France, too, the Carrefour hyperstore seems to co-exist with charming village centres.

    I’m not disputing that big box retail and ecommerce have between them had a massive impact, but there seems to be something else going on too.

    Probably the complete collapse in local planning capability that has been ongoing since at least the Thatcher era. Local government as understood overseas barely exists now in the UK.

    The problem is that there is a religious belief in the huge value of high street real estate. Which is far beyond the ability of nearly any commercial operation to support
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,665
    It's Sarah Pochin sir

    She's complaining that all the Zulu's are black


  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,121

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    I deal with asbestos stripping companies and I have never ever seen a demolition without the careful removal of asbestos insulation within air regulated enclosures prior to the removal of the building. So the procedure is remove the asbestos and then demolish the building or remove the asbestos and refurbish the building. Smashing it down with nibblers to leave a big pile of asbestos contaminated demolition waste would in our country breach the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012 and require ALL the construction rubble to be deposited in a (hazardous) asbestos only landfill cell.

    So what Bessant has suggested is an absolute crock.
    Yeh, but Trump doesn't like woke red tape measures like those.
    If his entire family and cabinet die of asbestosis that would be an epic example of karma.
    It's OK.

    Chrysotile may be extremely dangerous in the UK, but for the next 11 years is still safe to use in new build US industrial construction.

    From Wikipedia: "As of March 2024, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency finalized regulations banning imports of chrysotile asbestos (effective immediately) due to its link to lung cancer and mesothelioma. However, the new rules can allow up to a dozen years to phase out the use of chrysotile asbestos in some manufacturing facilities.[28] The long phase-out period was a result of a strong lobby by Olin Corporation, a major chemical manufacturer, as well as trade groups like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the American Chemistry Council. Chrysotile asbestos is now banned in more than 50 other countries".


    Is it at all likely there's no asbestos? Or that it was cleared out in some previous project?

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,537

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    It probably did, but the whole point about asbestos is it's more or less harmless as long as you leave it where it is.

    It only becomes dangerous if you smash it up, which would only happen if some useless knob end decided on a whim to demolish the building it was...oh dear.
    Further, it would almost certainly be white asbestos. Which is about as bad for you as fibre glass fibres from lagging.

    That is, both will give you lung cancer if you spend lots of time chopping it up and breathing the resultant airborne micro-fibres.

    But if you leave them alone, they won’t.

    So kids, don’t eat the lagging in the loft.
    Given the age of the East Wing, it could be every damn type of the stuff. What they used for insulation in the first half of the 20thC can be absolutely lethal.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,505
    OT my not-very smartphone is on its last legs and does not seem to make or receive phone calls any more. Any recommendations?

    The reviews of the iphone 17 seem very positive, especially for the base model over the more expensive variants (as if any iphone is cheap). I have no cats to video but it does occur to me to photograph interesting magazine articles and hoard them online rather than on the shelf. Apple seems to have discontinued the SE (or sensible) size.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,357
    AnneJGP said:

    Just got home to two emails from Amazon. One says Your package is out for delivery and the other says Delivery is expected by Thursday January 1st.

    Did you order a cat from the Schrödinger pet shop?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,850
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    I deal with asbestos stripping companies and I have never ever seen a demolition without the careful removal of asbestos insulation within air regulated enclosures prior to the removal of the building. So the procedure is remove the asbestos and then demolish the building or remove the asbestos and refurbish the building. Smashing it down with nibblers to leave a big pile of asbestos contaminated demolition waste would in our country breach the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012 and require ALL the construction rubble to be deposited in a (hazardous) asbestos only landfill cell.

    So what Bessant has suggested is an absolute crock.
    Yeh, but Trump doesn't like woke red tape measures like those.
    If his entire family and cabinet die of asbestosis that would be an epic example of karma.
    It's OK.

    Chrysotile may be extremely dangerous in the UK, but for the next 11 years is still safe to use in new build US industrial construction.

    From Wikipedia: "As of March 2024, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency finalized regulations banning imports of chrysotile asbestos (effective immediately) due to its link to lung cancer and mesothelioma. However, the new rules can allow up to a dozen years to phase out the use of chrysotile asbestos in some manufacturing facilities.[28] The long phase-out period was a result of a strong lobby by Olin Corporation, a major chemical manufacturer, as well as trade groups like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the American Chemistry Council. Chrysotile asbestos is now banned in more than 50 other countries".


    Is it at all likely there's no asbestos? Or that it was cleared out in some previous project?

    A building of that age will be stuffed full of asbestos - the high watermark of usage. Some will have been removed over the years. Much will have been left in place - unless you rip back to the bare structure, nearly impossible to make sure it’s all gone. Perfectly safe to leave, as long as it’s mapped, and loonies don’t go round drilling holes* or knocking the building down.

    *the actual risk from a 5mm hole being drilled in some white asbestos is tiny.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,517
    edited 4:18PM

    OT my not-very smartphone is on its last legs and does not seem to make or receive phone calls any more. Any recommendations?

    The reviews of the iphone 17 seem very positive, especially for the base model over the more expensive variants (as if any iphone is cheap). I have no cats to video but it does occur to me to photograph interesting magazine articles and hoard them online rather than on the shelf. Apple seems to have discontinued the SE (or sensible) size.

    I bought a refurbished iPhone 13 mini from Apple last year. I don't think you can get them anymore though.

    The iPhone 17 is actually very small for as new smartphones go.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,850
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    It probably did, but the whole point about asbestos is it's more or less harmless as long as you leave it where it is.

    It only becomes dangerous if you smash it up, which would only happen if some useless knob end decided on a whim to demolish the building it was...oh dear.
    Further, it would almost certainly be white asbestos. Which is about as bad for you as fibre glass fibres from lagging.

    That is, both will give you lung cancer if you spend lots of time chopping it up and breathing the resultant airborne micro-fibres.

    But if you leave them alone, they won’t.

    So kids, don’t eat the lagging in the loft.
    Given the age of the East Wing, it could be every damn type of the stuff. What they used for insulation in the first half of the 20thC can be absolutely lethal.
    Blue and brown would be very unlikely - unless they had really industrial boiler for hot water. And that would be long, long gone.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,620
    carnforth said:

    OT my not-very smartphone is on its last legs and does not seem to make or receive phone calls any more. Any recommendations?

    The reviews of the iphone 17 seem very positive, especially for the base model over the more expensive variants (as if any iphone is cheap). I have no cats to video but it does occur to me to photograph interesting magazine articles and hoard them online rather than on the shelf. Apple seems to have discontinued the SE (or sensible) size.

    I bought a refurbished iPhone 13 mini from Apple last year. I don't think you can get them anymore though.

    The iPhone 17 is actually very small for as new smartphones go.
    I would be going for a 16 pro if you can find one - better camera..
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,474
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    I deal with asbestos stripping companies and I have never ever seen a demolition without the careful removal of asbestos insulation within air regulated enclosures prior to the removal of the building. So the procedure is remove the asbestos and then demolish the building or remove the asbestos and refurbish the building. Smashing it down with nibblers to leave a big pile of asbestos contaminated demolition waste would in our country breach the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012 and require ALL the construction rubble to be deposited in a (hazardous) asbestos only landfill cell.

    So what Bessant has suggested is an absolute crock.
    Yeh, but Trump doesn't like woke red tape measures like those.
    If his entire family and cabinet die of asbestosis that would be an epic example of karma.
    Mesothelioma would be more likely
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,537

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    I deal with asbestos stripping companies and I have never ever seen a demolition without the careful removal of asbestos insulation within air regulated enclosures prior to the removal of the building. So the procedure is remove the asbestos and then demolish the building or remove the asbestos and refurbish the building. Smashing it down with nibblers to leave a big pile of asbestos contaminated demolition waste would in our country breach the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012 and require ALL the construction rubble to be deposited in a (hazardous) asbestos only landfill cell.

    So what Bessant has suggested is an absolute crock.
    Yeh, but Trump doesn't like woke red tape measures like those.
    If his entire family and cabinet die of asbestosis that would be an epic example of karma.
    It's OK.

    Chrysotile may be extremely dangerous in the UK, but for the next 11 years is still safe to use in new build US industrial construction.

    From Wikipedia: "As of March 2024, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency finalized regulations banning imports of chrysotile asbestos (effective immediately) due to its link to lung cancer and mesothelioma. However, the new rules can allow up to a dozen years to phase out the use of chrysotile asbestos in some manufacturing facilities.[28] The long phase-out period was a result of a strong lobby by Olin Corporation, a major chemical manufacturer, as well as trade groups like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the American Chemistry Council. Chrysotile asbestos is now banned in more than 50 other countries".


    Is it at all likely there's no asbestos? Or that it was cleared out in some previous project?

    A building of that age will be stuffed full of asbestos - the high watermark of usage. Some will have been removed over the years. Much will have been left in place - unless you rip back to the bare structure, nearly impossible to make sure it’s all gone. Perfectly safe to leave, as long as it’s mapped, and loonies don’t go round drilling holes* or knocking the building down.

    *the actual risk from a 5mm hole being drilled in some white asbestos is tiny.
    A couple of lecturers at my wife's old uni died of mesothelioma. Probably from drilling holes in panelling.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,086

    OT my not-very smartphone is on its last legs and does not seem to make or receive phone calls any more. Any recommendations?

    The reviews of the iphone 17 seem very positive, especially for the base model over the more expensive variants (as if any iphone is cheap). I have no cats to video but it does occur to me to photograph interesting magazine articles and hoard them online rather than on the shelf. Apple seems to have discontinued the SE (or sensible) size.

    Sadly, there are no small smartphones any more.

    And I say this as an Android (and Mac) user: you can't go wrong with a base model iPhone. The 16e is probably your best bet.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,716
    Just been to the afternoon with Stuart Broad in Edinburgh. A genuinely inspired birthday present from my son.

    Looking forward to him winding up the Aussies on commentary next month.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,716

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    I deal with asbestos stripping companies and I have never ever seen a demolition without the careful removal of asbestos insulation within air regulated enclosures prior to the removal of the building. So the procedure is remove the asbestos and then demolish the building or remove the asbestos and refurbish the building. Smashing it down with nibblers to leave a big pile of asbestos contaminated demolition waste would in our country breach the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012 and require ALL the construction rubble to be deposited in a (hazardous) asbestos only landfill cell.

    So what Bessant has suggested is an absolute crock.
    Yeh, but Trump doesn't like woke red tape measures like those.
    If his entire family and cabinet die of asbestosis that would be an epic example of karma.
    Mesothelioma would be more likely
    To be honest I’m not fussy
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,474
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    I deal with asbestos stripping companies and I have never ever seen a demolition without the careful removal of asbestos insulation within air regulated enclosures prior to the removal of the building. So the procedure is remove the asbestos and then demolish the building or remove the asbestos and refurbish the building. Smashing it down with nibblers to leave a big pile of asbestos contaminated demolition waste would in our country breach the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012 and require ALL the construction rubble to be deposited in a (hazardous) asbestos only landfill cell.

    So what Bessant has suggested is an absolute crock.
    Yeh, but Trump doesn't like woke red tape measures like those.
    If his entire family and cabinet die of asbestosis that would be an epic example of karma.
    Mesothelioma would be more likely
    To be honest I’m not fussy
    Asbestosis is rarely fatal
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,369
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    I deal with asbestos stripping companies and I have never ever seen a demolition without the careful removal of asbestos insulation within air regulated enclosures prior to the removal of the building. So the procedure is remove the asbestos and then demolish the building or remove the asbestos and refurbish the building. Smashing it down with nibblers to leave a big pile of asbestos contaminated demolition waste would in our country breach the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012 and require ALL the construction rubble to be deposited in a (hazardous) asbestos only landfill cell.

    So what Bessant has suggested is an absolute crock.
    Yeh, but Trump doesn't like woke red tape measures like those.
    If his entire family and cabinet die of asbestosis that would be an epic example of karma.
    It's OK.

    Chrysotile may be extremely dangerous in the UK, but for the next 11 years is still safe to use in new build US industrial construction.

    From Wikipedia: "As of March 2024, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency finalized regulations banning imports of chrysotile asbestos (effective immediately) due to its link to lung cancer and mesothelioma. However, the new rules can allow up to a dozen years to phase out the use of chrysotile asbestos in some manufacturing facilities.[28] The long phase-out period was a result of a strong lobby by Olin Corporation, a major chemical manufacturer, as well as trade groups like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the American Chemistry Council. Chrysotile asbestos is now banned in more than 50 other countries".


    Is it at all likely there's no asbestos? Or that it was cleared out in some previous project?

    I would imagine during the 1940s refit Harry Truman filled the place with chrysotile.

    The point is removal is not just a case of smashing down a building complete with fibrous asbestos (although even over here concrete bonded asbestos can be removed in a process known as "smash and sweep", although fibrous asbestos cannot and is strictly managed). My other point was because of industry lobbying (and money?) chrysotile asbestos which has been killer dangerous in the UK since 1999, is safe (and presumably doesn't guarantee lung cancer, as it does over here) in the USA for another 11 years. Which begs the question, is Bessant's justification simply nonsense?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,537

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    It probably did, but the whole point about asbestos is it's more or less harmless as long as you leave it where it is.

    It only becomes dangerous if you smash it up, which would only happen if some useless knob end decided on a whim to demolish the building it was...oh dear.
    Further, it would almost certainly be white asbestos. Which is about as bad for you as fibre glass fibres from lagging.

    That is, both will give you lung cancer if you spend lots of time chopping it up and breathing the resultant airborne micro-fibres.

    But if you leave them alone, they won’t.

    So kids, don’t eat the lagging in the loft.
    Given the age of the East Wing, it could be every damn type of the stuff. What they used for insulation in the first half of the 20thC can be absolutely lethal.
    Blue and brown would be very unlikely - unless they had really industrial boiler for hot water. And that would be long, long gone.
    Not that unlikely given the age of the building.
    I once stripped out some 1930s oak panelling - fortunately not before I'd discovered half inch thick asbestos matting behind it, which contained both.
    An expensive job to have it safely removed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,537
    Was this really the limit of Sunak's ambition ?
    Why did he even bother.

    Rishi Sunak to the Times: "Clearly, I miss the levers of power. I’m proud I brought in the smoking ban for the young. I miss playing cricket in the garden with the England cricket team and the staff. But not much else."
    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1982114041196609600
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,474
    Nigelb said:

    Was this really the limit of Sunak's ambition ?
    Why did he even bother.

    Rishi Sunak to the Times: "Clearly, I miss the levers of power. I’m proud I brought in the smoking ban for the young. I miss playing cricket in the garden with the England cricket team and the staff. But not much else."
    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1982114041196609600

    The limits of his achievement not his ambition
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,537

    Nigelb said:

    Was this really the limit of Sunak's ambition ?
    Why did he even bother.

    Rishi Sunak to the Times: "Clearly, I miss the levers of power. I’m proud I brought in the smoking ban for the young. I miss playing cricket in the garden with the England cricket team and the staff. But not much else."
    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1982114041196609600

    The limits of his achievement not his ambition
    Guy doesn't seem at all unhappy to have left it at that, so I stand by my assessment.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,369

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    I deal with asbestos stripping companies and I have never ever seen a demolition without the careful removal of asbestos insulation within air regulated enclosures prior to the removal of the building. So the procedure is remove the asbestos and then demolish the building or remove the asbestos and refurbish the building. Smashing it down with nibblers to leave a big pile of asbestos contaminated demolition waste would in our country breach the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012 and require ALL the construction rubble to be deposited in a (hazardous) asbestos only landfill cell.

    So what Bessant has suggested is an absolute crock.
    Yeh, but Trump doesn't like woke red tape measures like those.
    If his entire family and cabinet die of asbestosis that would be an epic example of karma.
    Mesothelioma would be more likely
    To be honest I’m not fussy
    Asbestosis is rarely fatal
    It is always fatal, but one dies of mesothelioma cancer.

    https://www.asbestos.com/mesothelioma/life-expectancy/#:~:text=People with early-stage mesothelioma,involves stages 3 and 4.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,785
    Nigelb said:

    Was this really the limit of Sunak's ambition ?
    Why did he even bother.

    Rishi Sunak to the Times: "Clearly, I miss the levers of power. I’m proud I brought in the smoking ban for the young. I miss playing cricket in the garden with the England cricket team and the staff. But not much else."
    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1982114041196609600

    It was a nice interview piece but I thought that too about that bit. I'd have thought he'd be proud of steadying the ship after Truss pointed it at the rocks.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,369
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Was this really the limit of Sunak's ambition ?
    Why did he even bother.

    Rishi Sunak to the Times: "Clearly, I miss the levers of power. I’m proud I brought in the smoking ban for the young. I miss playing cricket in the garden with the England cricket team and the staff. But not much else."
    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1982114041196609600

    It was a nice interview piece but I thought that too about that bit. I'd have thought he'd be proud of steadying the ship after Truss pointed it at the rocks.
    I suspect history will turn out to look more favourably on Sunak than it will on Truss, Johnson, May and Cameron.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,537
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    It probably did, but the whole point about asbestos is it's more or less harmless as long as you leave it where it is.

    It only becomes dangerous if you smash it up, which would only happen if some useless knob end decided on a whim to demolish the building it was...oh dear.
    Further, it would almost certainly be white asbestos. Which is about as bad for you as fibre glass fibres from lagging.

    That is, both will give you lung cancer if you spend lots of time chopping it up and breathing the resultant airborne micro-fibres.

    But if you leave them alone, they won’t.

    So kids, don’t eat the lagging in the loft.
    Given the age of the East Wing, it could be every damn type of the stuff. What they used for insulation in the first half of the 20thC can be absolutely lethal.
    Blue and brown would be very unlikely - unless they had really industrial boiler for hot water. And that would be long, long gone.
    Not that unlikely given the age of the building.
    I once stripped out some 1930s oak panelling - fortunately not before I'd discovered half inch thick asbestos matting behind it, which contained both.
    An expensive job to have it safely removed.
    And the US were even slower than us to phase it out. Kent Cigarettes use crocidolite (the lethal blue asbestos) in cigarette filters in the 1950s.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,209
    viewcode said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Just got home to two emails from Amazon. One says Your package is out for delivery and the other says Delivery is expected by Thursday January 1st.

    Did you order a cat from the Schrödinger pet shop?

    Just a boring box of printer paper. Thank goodness it wasn't a gift for Christmas.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,620

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Was this really the limit of Sunak's ambition ?
    Why did he even bother.

    Rishi Sunak to the Times: "Clearly, I miss the levers of power. I’m proud I brought in the smoking ban for the young. I miss playing cricket in the garden with the England cricket team and the staff. But not much else."
    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1982114041196609600

    It was a nice interview piece but I thought that too about that bit. I'd have thought he'd be proud of steadying the ship after Truss pointed it at the rocks.
    I suspect history will turn out to look more favourably on Sunak than it will on Truss, Johnson, May and Cameron.
    Sunak screwed up HS2 which is going to have long term economic impact.

    I suspect he won't be looked as favourably as Brown, Blair or Major..
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,209
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Was this really the limit of Sunak's ambition ?
    Why did he even bother.

    Rishi Sunak to the Times: "Clearly, I miss the levers of power. I’m proud I brought in the smoking ban for the young. I miss playing cricket in the garden with the England cricket team and the staff. But not much else."
    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1982114041196609600

    It was a nice interview piece but I thought that too about that bit. I'd have thought he'd be proud of steadying the ship after Truss pointed it at the rocks.
    Can't say that without being critical, so good for him not saying that.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,336
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Was this really the limit of Sunak's ambition ?
    Why did he even bother.

    Rishi Sunak to the Times: "Clearly, I miss the levers of power. I’m proud I brought in the smoking ban for the young. I miss playing cricket in the garden with the England cricket team and the staff. But not much else."
    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1982114041196609600

    The limits of his achievement not his ambition
    Guy doesn't seem at all unhappy to have left it at that, so I stand by my assessment.
    The book version of Yes, Prime Minister shuffles the last few chapters round, compared to the TV series. On telly, the story ends with The Tangled Web, and Hacker seriously getting one over on Sir Humphrey. In the book, the last chapter is The National Education Service, which ends thusly:

    All the fight had gone out of me. 'No, Humphrey, we have no agendum any more. Meeting declared closed. All right?'

    'Yes Prime Minister.' He smiled at me with sympathy. He could see at last that I understood.


    Sunak's whole approach to 2024 gave off similar vibes. His vision- turning the UK into a version of California with more rain and better tea- wasn't going to happen. Reality has beaten him. I just wish he hadn't left quite so much shit for the next tenant to clean up.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,369
    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Was this really the limit of Sunak's ambition ?
    Why did he even bother.

    Rishi Sunak to the Times: "Clearly, I miss the levers of power. I’m proud I brought in the smoking ban for the young. I miss playing cricket in the garden with the England cricket team and the staff. But not much else."
    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1982114041196609600

    It was a nice interview piece but I thought that too about that bit. I'd have thought he'd be proud of steadying the ship after Truss pointed it at the rocks.
    I suspect history will turn out to look more favourably on Sunak than it will on Truss, Johnson, May and Cameron.
    Sunak screwed up HS2 which is going to have long term economic impact.

    I suspect he won't be looked as favourably as Brown, Blair or Major..
    A fair point.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,785
    AnneJGP said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Was this really the limit of Sunak's ambition ?
    Why did he even bother.

    Rishi Sunak to the Times: "Clearly, I miss the levers of power. I’m proud I brought in the smoking ban for the young. I miss playing cricket in the garden with the England cricket team and the staff. But not much else."
    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1982114041196609600

    It was a nice interview piece but I thought that too about that bit. I'd have thought he'd be proud of steadying the ship after Truss pointed it at the rocks.
    Can't say that without being critical, so good for him not saying that.
    I suppose that's right, yes. He's still a Tory MP, isn't he.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,336
    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Was this really the limit of Sunak's ambition ?
    Why did he even bother.

    Rishi Sunak to the Times: "Clearly, I miss the levers of power. I’m proud I brought in the smoking ban for the young. I miss playing cricket in the garden with the England cricket team and the staff. But not much else."
    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1982114041196609600

    It was a nice interview piece but I thought that too about that bit. I'd have thought he'd be proud of steadying the ship after Truss pointed it at the rocks.
    I suspect history will turn out to look more favourably on Sunak than it will on Truss, Johnson, May and Cameron.
    Sunak screwed up HS2 which is going to have long term economic impact.

    I suspect he won't be looked as favourably as Brown, Blair or Major..
    Put those two together, and you get something approaching a truth. Top of the second division is still second division. (And I suspect that May's failure will be regarded with more sympathy in years to come, whereas Cameron and Sunak's reputations have a way to fall yet.)

    Incidentally, isn't it still a bit early for the public to be interested in Rishi's wisdom on public affairs? He did fail really badly as PM, after all.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,505
    AnneJGP said:

    viewcode said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Just got home to two emails from Amazon. One says Your package is out for delivery and the other says Delivery is expected by Thursday January 1st.

    Did you order a cat from the Schrödinger pet shop?

    Just a boring box of printer paper. Thank goodness it wasn't a gift for Christmas.
    I could not order from Amazon for delivery to a local shop for two or three weeks (and fear that destination was suspended for everyone) after the Bezos Mk 1 computer got confused over the whereabouts of a DVD that I told them several times I'd already collected.

    Just checked my account. Even now its status is: On the way, but running late.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,431
    edited 5:16PM
    Beats me why the government don't point out that the enormous amount of state spending during Covid, much of which was on supporting job furlough and other measures to keep businesses and orgnisations afloat, actually needs to be paid for
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,785

    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Was this really the limit of Sunak's ambition ?
    Why did he even bother.

    Rishi Sunak to the Times: "Clearly, I miss the levers of power. I’m proud I brought in the smoking ban for the young. I miss playing cricket in the garden with the England cricket team and the staff. But not much else."
    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1982114041196609600

    It was a nice interview piece but I thought that too about that bit. I'd have thought he'd be proud of steadying the ship after Truss pointed it at the rocks.
    I suspect history will turn out to look more favourably on Sunak than it will on Truss, Johnson, May and Cameron.
    Sunak screwed up HS2 which is going to have long term economic impact.

    I suspect he won't be looked as favourably as Brown, Blair or Major..
    Put those two together, and you get something approaching a truth. Top of the second division is still second division. (And I suspect that May's failure will be regarded with more sympathy in years to come, whereas Cameron and Sunak's reputations have a way to fall yet.)

    Incidentally, isn't it still a bit early for the public to be interested in Rishi's wisdom on public affairs? He did fail really badly as PM, after all.
    May's biggest mistake was calling and effectively losing that snap election. Most of her travails flowed from that. It was the first Get Brexit Done election but its outcome guaranteed the opposite. You couldn't have come up with a Commons composition more precisely designed for impasse if you sat there with a calculator for a hundred years.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,567
    Perhaps this bit of American slang was never popular in the UK? Beginning in the late 1800s, a person -- especially a criminal -- who fled from police was often said to be "taking it on the lam".

    I am sure posters here can think of ways to apply that to Katie. Have fun!
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,743

    Perhaps this bit of American slang was never popular in the UK? Beginning in the late 1800s, a person -- especially a criminal -- who fled from police was often said to be "taking it on the lam".

    I am sure posters here can think of ways to apply that to Katie. Have fun!

    Famalam, innit.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,194
    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t


    Make it a Museum of the History of Trans.

    Oh - Trance? Oops....
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,505
    OT heartwarming racing story.

    Perennial big-race bridesmaid Hitman chose the right time to get his head in front in the Old Roan Chase, with his owners [a syndicate including Sir Alex] donating the winning prize-money to the Ricky Hatton Foundation.
    https://www.racingpost.com/news/reports/he-did-that-for-ricky-legendary-boxer-hattons-foundation-to-benefit-as-hitman-earns-long-awaited-old-roan-win-aIWbY9g2KOk1/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,729
    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Was this really the limit of Sunak's ambition ?
    Why did he even bother.

    Rishi Sunak to the Times: "Clearly, I miss the levers of power. I’m proud I brought in the smoking ban for the young. I miss playing cricket in the garden with the England cricket team and the staff. But not much else."
    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1982114041196609600

    It was a nice interview piece but I thought that too about that bit. I'd have thought he'd be proud of steadying the ship after Truss pointed it at the rocks.
    I suspect history will turn out to look more favourably on Sunak than it will on Truss, Johnson, May and Cameron.
    Sunak screwed up HS2 which is going to have long term economic impact.

    I suspect he won't be looked as favourably as Brown, Blair or Major..
    Put those two together, and you get something approaching a truth. Top of the second division is still second division. (And I suspect that May's failure will be regarded with more sympathy in years to come, whereas Cameron and Sunak's reputations have a way to fall yet.)

    Incidentally, isn't it still a bit early for the public to be interested in Rishi's wisdom on public affairs? He did fail really badly as PM, after all.
    May's biggest mistake was calling and effectively losing that snap election. Most of her travails flowed from that. It was the first Get Brexit Done election but its outcome guaranteed the opposite. You couldn't have come up with a Commons composition more precisely designed for impasse if you sat there with a calculator for a hundred years.
    Our 2017 GE was a bit like the Argentinian response to Milei. Vote for change, but the brakes on to prevent it being too radical.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,850
    edited 5:29PM
    KnightOut said:

    'far superior D'Hondt system'?!?

    Fuck the fuck off. Right off. D'Hondt is possibly the worst electoral system ever devised.

    It creates arbitrary cliff-edges and almost always relies on fixed lists that can make it impossible to elect a candidate you like without also electing one you don't like, and the vote for the one you like risks electing the one you don't like but not the one you like!

    Awful, awful, horrible manky system! It completely devalues the individual candidate; sacrificed upon the altar of party machine and pisses and shits upon all that is good about politics.

    (And it's not even particularly proportional - in the last UK Euro-elections, the LibDems got twice as many votes as the Tories but four times as many seats under D'Hondt.)

    I like Milei a lot, but I'd like him even more if he spared the poor Argentinians the abject nonsense of this apology for an electoral system.

    So, put you on the “No” party list?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,729
    KnightOut said:

    'far superior D'Hondt system'?!?

    Fuck the fuck off. Right off. D'Hondt is possibly the worst electoral system ever devised.

    It creates arbitrary cliff-edges and almost always relies on fixed lists that can make it impossible to elect a candidate you like without also electing one you don't like, and the vote for the one you like risks electing the one you don't like but not the one you like!

    Awful, awful, horrible manky system! It completely devalues the individual candidate; sacrificed upon the altar of party machine and pisses and shits upon all that is good about politics.

    (And it's not even particularly proportional - in the last UK Euro-elections, the LibDems got twice as many votes as the Tories but four times as many seats under D'Hondt.)

    I like Milei a lot, but I'd like him even more if he spared the poor Argentinians the abject nonsense of this apology for an electoral system.

    STV is better still, but D'Hondt is better than FPTP in a multiparty system, particularly if there is an open Primary to set the order of candidates. I think this is the case in Argentina normally, but not this time for some reason. D'Hondt works best if there are larger constituencies, so more proportional in BA region than the smaller provinces.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,022

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    It probably did, but the whole point about asbestos is it's more or less harmless as long as you leave it where it is.

    It only becomes dangerous if you smash it up, which would only happen if some useless knob end decided on a whim to demolish the building it was...oh dear.
    Further, it would almost certainly be white asbestos. Which is about as bad for you as fibre glass fibres from lagging.

    That is, both will give you lung cancer if you spend lots of time chopping it up and breathing the resultant airborne micro-fibres.

    But if you leave them alone, they won’t.

    So kids, don’t eat the lagging in the loft.
    That's tonight's dinner plans ruined, thanks.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,357
    One of my favourite left-wing American historians and film-makers, Atun-Shei Films, has released a 90min video on the sexual politics of Frankenstein. I'm sure you'll all be queuing up to watch, so the link is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY3LkkAgePg
  • Anyone wondering why Britain has fallen behind the world in SMRs may wish to consider the questions asked in the "Great British Nuclear SMR competition".

    Bidders are asked to:


    ‘Tackle workforce inequality across characteristics such as gender, ethnic diversity, race, religious belief, sexual orientation, physical ability and marital status, and achieve 50 per cent gender balance by 2030 for the workforce employed on this TP Contract within the Contractor and its supply chain.’


    Total gender parity is required not only within the bidder's own workforce but that of their suppliers.
    Some of those characteristics are things employers cannot even require their employees to give information on, so the whole thing is fundamentally impossible. Whoever came up with this nonsense is either a foreign agent or an utter moron.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,414

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Rachel Reeves set to announce a Mansion Tax in the Budget and a charge of 1% on the value of all properties worth over £2 million
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15228277/Mervyn-King-Rachel-Reeves-incoherent-mansion-tax.html

    The Government is also considering raising the top rate of income tax, with the additional rate possibly rising from 45p in the £ back to 50p as it was when Brown left office in 2010 or the threshold for the additional rate being reduced to £110k

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tax-budget-income-rachel-reeves-chancellor-b2847002.html

    How do they intend to value houses to determine which are worth more than £2m?

    My Dad bought a substantial house in London with his second wife in 1997 for £325k. The house next door sold for £1.88m in 2022, so my Dad's house could be worth £2m (but it probably isn't because it's not in as good internal condition, though that might not matter, depending on the method of valuation).

    I reckon a £20k pa tax would actually cause him to seriously consider downsizing.
    The proposal is a tax on the proportion of value above £2m, not the entire value.
    That sounds like a now-classical Rachel Reeves de-minimus failure of making almost zero difference, whilst causing as much political self-damage as possible.

    The Treasury Civil Servant said: "Bend Over, Bend Over", so RR Bent Over and ...

    It would be far easier to roll it into a flat % of Value Council Tax, pump a little bit less extra money in to Councils from central funds, and make a move to restoring Stamp Duty to a lower level (say a reduction by 25-50%).

    If a bit more is required, then put a 50p a day levy on supermarket and out of town centre car parking spaces, to incentivise their efficient use, increasing to £1 next year. That's perhaps £1-3 billion of low-hanging fruit, and would tip the balance towards town centres. There's a defensible case to hypothecate such finds to active travel and accessible public transport, as that would over time reduce the need for such spaces.
    Since you can’t park in many town centres, due to restricted parking and high charges, this just raises the game. For online shopping.
    In my town centre it is 30 or 60 minutes free in the most central Council owned car parks, which seems quite reasonable. That is a good balance between "pop in" and "take up too much time in the short stay". There are longer-stay spots around if required.
    60 minutes would barely allow my wife to do a first sweep through one shop.

    And then people wonder at the collapse on town shopping.
    Or you can have 2 or 3 hours in Asda or Morrisons, or be 500m out and walk for unlimited.

    I think that's a good setup - in the denser areas keep them moving.

    Really, all a modest levy on out of town would be is a rebalancing, and some of the revenue could be used for town centre improvements or to reduce costs there.

    My local shopping out of town centre has a turnover of £200 per day for each of their approx 2250 parking spaces (£150m per annum, around 5m visitors). A levy of of £1 per day is a rounding error, but would raise 800k per annum.

    It's an ideal revenue stream - a modest impact, easy to collect, hard to avoid.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,022

    Anyone wondering why Britain has fallen behind the world in SMRs may wish to consider the questions asked in the "Great British Nuclear SMR competition".

    Bidders are asked to:


    ‘Tackle workforce inequality across characteristics such as gender, ethnic diversity, race, religious belief, sexual orientation, physical ability and marital status, and achieve 50 per cent gender balance by 2030 for the workforce employed on this TP Contract within the Contractor and its supply chain.’


    Total gender parity is required not only within the bidder's own workforce but that of their suppliers.
    Some of those characteristics are things employers cannot even require their employees to give information on, so the whole thing is fundamentally impossible. Whoever came up with this nonsense is either a foreign agent or an utter moron.
    Who can say why this stuff happens. There are a million reasons - money-hungry consultancies who donate millions to politics and expect their pound of flesh, genuine braindead woke believers, laws like The Equality Act that demand this sort of thing, or simply a mullish 'I don't like Britain much and don't particularly want it to succeed' attitude that seems to hang over the Civil Service like a miasma.

    And people tell us that no money can be saved if we want 'decent public services'.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,414
    edited 5:46PM

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    It probably did, but the whole point about asbestos is it's more or less harmless as long as you leave it where it is.

    It only becomes dangerous if you smash it up, which would only happen if some useless knob end decided on a whim to demolish the building it was...oh dear.
    Further, it would almost certainly be white asbestos. Which is about as bad for you as fibre glass fibres from lagging.

    That is, both will give you lung cancer if you spend lots of time chopping it up and breathing the resultant airborne micro-fibres.

    But if you leave them alone, they won’t.

    So kids, don’t eat the lagging in the loft.
    You actually don't need much of it. For my dad it was being supervising architect on one 6 week project (ie visiting for a short time once a day or so) which had asbestos insulation on ducting in around 1971 that got him with asbestosis in 2009. We analysed his career with the medics and the compensation scheme, and that was all we could find.

    (The occurrence of lung injuries around here is why I think the Ref UK "open up the mines" proposals will not persuade. Here many have a family member or two who died from some industrial disease.)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,372
    Coming to this late. An excellent header, thanks Foxy.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,885
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Was this really the limit of Sunak's ambition ?
    Why did he even bother.

    Rishi Sunak to the Times: "Clearly, I miss the levers of power. I’m proud I brought in the smoking ban for the young. I miss playing cricket in the garden with the England cricket team and the staff. But not much else."
    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1982114041196609600

    It was a nice interview piece but I thought that too about that bit. I'd have thought he'd be proud of steadying the ship after Truss pointed it at the rocks.
    I suspect history will turn out to look more favourably on Sunak than it will on Truss, Johnson, May and Cameron.
    Sunak screwed up HS2 which is going to have long term economic impact.

    I suspect he won't be looked as favourably as Brown, Blair or Major..
    Put those two together, and you get something approaching a truth. Top of the second division is still second division. (And I suspect that May's failure will be regarded with more sympathy in years to come, whereas Cameron and Sunak's reputations have a way to fall yet.)

    Incidentally, isn't it still a bit early for the public to be interested in Rishi's wisdom on public affairs? He did fail really badly as PM, after all.
    May's biggest mistake was calling and effectively losing that snap election. Most of her travails flowed from that. It was the first Get Brexit Done election but its outcome guaranteed the opposite. You couldn't have come up with a Commons composition more precisely designed for impasse if you sat there with a calculator for a hundred years.
    Our 2017 GE was a bit like the Argentinian response to Milei. Vote for change, but the brakes on to prevent it being too radical.
    It was 80%+ voting for parties who pledged to implement the referendum result, including the MP fir St Pancras and Holborn, who said it was “a matter of principle” that the result be enacted, who then didn’t two years filibustering to try and get another go at it
  • isamisam Posts: 42,885
    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Was this really the limit of Sunak's ambition ?
    Why did he even bother.

    Rishi Sunak to the Times: "Clearly, I miss the levers of power. I’m proud I brought in the smoking ban for the young. I miss playing cricket in the garden with the England cricket team and the staff. But not much else."
    https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1982114041196609600

    It was a nice interview piece but I thought that too about that bit. I'd have thought he'd be proud of steadying the ship after Truss pointed it at the rocks.
    I suspect history will turn out to look more favourably on Sunak than it will on Truss, Johnson, May and Cameron.
    Sunak screwed up HS2 which is going to have long term economic impact.

    I suspect he won't be looked as favourably as Brown, Blair or Major..
    Put those two together, and you get something approaching a truth. Top of the second division is still second division. (And I suspect that May's failure will be regarded with more sympathy in years to come, whereas Cameron and Sunak's reputations have a way to fall yet.)

    Incidentally, isn't it still a bit early for the public to be interested in Rishi's wisdom on public affairs? He did fail really badly as PM, after all.
    May's biggest mistake was calling and effectively losing that snap election. Most of her travails flowed from that. It was the first Get Brexit Done election but its outcome guaranteed the opposite. You couldn't have come up with a Commons composition more precisely designed for impasse if you sat there with a calculator for a hundred years.
    Our 2017 GE was a bit like the Argentinian response to Milei. Vote for change, but the brakes on to prevent it being too radical.
    It was 80%+ voting for parties who pledged to implement the referendum result, including the MP fir St Pancras and Holborn, who said it was “a matter of principle” that the result be enacted, who then didn’t two years filibustering to try and get another go at it
    Sorry, auto correct

    It was 80%+ voting for parties who pledged to implement the referendum result, including the MP for St Pancras and Holborn, who said it was “a matter of principle” that the result be enacted, and then spent two years filibustering to try and get another go at it
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,357
    tlg86 said:

    Coming to this late. An excellent header, thanks Foxy.

    Yes, I liked it too. Thank you @Foxy
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,194
    I predict November is going to be a REALLY bad month for Putin.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,841
    edited 6:01PM
    Foxy said:

    KnightOut said:

    'far superior D'Hondt system'?!?

    Fuck the fuck off. Right off. D'Hondt is possibly the worst electoral system ever devised.

    It creates arbitrary cliff-edges and almost always relies on fixed lists that can make it impossible to elect a candidate you like without also electing one you don't like, and the vote for the one you like risks electing the one you don't like but not the one you like!

    Awful, awful, horrible manky system! It completely devalues the individual candidate; sacrificed upon the altar of party machine and pisses and shits upon all that is good about politics.

    (And it's not even particularly proportional - in the last UK Euro-elections, the LibDems got twice as many votes as the Tories but four times as many seats under D'Hondt.)

    I like Milei a lot, but I'd like him even more if he spared the poor Argentinians the abject nonsense of this apology for an electoral system.

    STV is better still, but D'Hondt is better than FPTP in a multiparty system, particularly if there is an open Primary to set the order of candidates. I think this is the case in Argentina normally, but not this time for some reason. D'Hondt works best if there are larger constituencies, so more proportional in BA region than the smaller provinces.
    KnightOut overtes his case, which comes down to an unrealistic idea of most voters selecting candidates rather than parties. I was a reasonably successful candidate, turning a safe Tory seat into a Labour marginal, but I was never under any illusions that most voters were weighing up the virtues of the candidates - the difference was due to the minority who did.

    Most people vote for a preferred party, and it's reasonable that the result should reflect that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,850
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Gallego on what the next Democratic president should do about Trump's ballroom: "To really mess with him, just name it the Barack Obama Ballroom, and I think that will take care of half the problem."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m444lbq3ma2t

    I was watching Rick Wilson, and he said on the afternoon of the 20th January (in whatever year the next Dem President is elected) both the Epstein Ballroom and the (Rose) beer garden must be smashed and the debris tipped into the sea to prevent the spoil becoming a Maga shrine. He has even offered to help out destroying the Rose Garden plinth with his jack hammer.
    Bessent is on TV right now saying maybe the East Wing had to be destroyed because it had asbestos in it

    The ballroom needs to be destroyed because it had Trump in it
    It probably did, but the whole point about asbestos is it's more or less harmless as long as you leave it where it is.

    It only becomes dangerous if you smash it up, which would only happen if some useless knob end decided on a whim to demolish the building it was...oh dear.
    Further, it would almost certainly be white asbestos. Which is about as bad for you as fibre glass fibres from lagging.

    That is, both will give you lung cancer if you spend lots of time chopping it up and breathing the resultant airborne micro-fibres.

    But if you leave them alone, they won’t.

    So kids, don’t eat the lagging in the loft.
    You actually don't need much of it. For my dad it was being supervising architect on one 6 week project (ie visiting for a short time once a day or so) which had asbestos insulation on ducting in around 1971 that got him with asbestosis in 2009. We analysed his career with the medics and the compensation scheme, and that was all we could find.

    (The occurrence of lung injuries around here is why I think the Ref UK "open up the mines" proposals will not persuade. Here many have a family member or two who died from some industrial disease.)
    My relative who runs a building business insists on proper protective gear for lagging, woodwork and painting. Real painting for woodwork involves multiple coats and sanding - lots of fine dust.

    Masks are mandatory, disposable noddy suits for high dust confined spaces etc etc.

    Some people have been working for him (on and off) for 20 years. You can easily tell them apart from the new guys. The old timers don’t have a 40-a-day-smokers cough.
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