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Will this damage the Greens in England & Wales? – politicalbetting.com

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  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,065
    Andy_JS said:

    The 13 seats Your Party would win with today's Electoral Calculus MRP.

    Bradford West
    Blackburn
    Islington North
    Bethnal Green and Stepney
    Birmingham Ladywood
    Leicester South
    Birmingham Perry Barr
    Dewsbury and Batley
    Birmingham Hall Green and Moseley
    Slough
    Ilford South
    Ilford North
    East Ham

    It’s the Muslim party
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,590
    edited October 15

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    How them grocery prices going?

    And health insurance premiums?
    Those are the issues the Dems need to campaign on.

    And contrast the struggles of workers compared to the corruption of the Trump clan.

    Will they though ?

    Or will they yet again retreat to their middle class liberal support of unrestricted abortion, trans rights and illegal immigrants ?
    How those soybean sales doing?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,590

    Andy_JS said:

    The 13 seats Your Party would win with today's Electoral Calculus MRP.

    Bradford West
    Blackburn
    Islington North
    Bethnal Green and Stepney
    Birmingham Ladywood
    Leicester South
    Birmingham Perry Barr
    Dewsbury and Batley
    Birmingham Hall Green and Moseley
    Slough
    Ilford South
    Ilford North
    East Ham

    It’s the Muslim party
    I dont think Leicester South is particularly Muslim.

    Shockhat Adam has much broader support than that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,572
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."



    Too late. Leon's already left.

    If crime really is bad there, I don't see what the problem is.
    The police are trained to police: arrest criminals, maintain order, maintain the existing rule of law
    The army are trained to wage war: kill people, create disorder, impose a new rule of law.

    Using the army to police a city is asking for trouble. See Bloody Sunday for a UK example.
    "There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,053
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The 13 seats Your Party would win with today's Electoral Calculus MRP.

    Bradford West
    Blackburn
    Islington North
    Bethnal Green and Stepney
    Birmingham Ladywood
    Leicester South
    Birmingham Perry Barr
    Dewsbury and Batley
    Birmingham Hall Green and Moseley
    Slough
    Ilford South
    Ilford North
    East Ham

    It’s the Muslim party
    I dont think Leicester South is particularly Muslim.

    Shockhat Adam has much broader support than that.
    Islington North isn't particularly either.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,809
    Andy_JS said:

    The 13 seats Your Party would win with today's Electoral Calculus MRP.

    Bradford West
    Blackburn
    Islington North
    Bethnal Green and Stepney
    Birmingham Ladywood
    Leicester South
    Birmingham Perry Barr
    Dewsbury and Batley
    Birmingham Hall Green and Moseley
    Slough
    Ilford South
    Ilford North
    East Ham

    I made a spreadsheet after the GE trying to predict which seats would be susceptible to the Islamic Alliance next time. I’ll try and find it tmrw and see how it compares with this
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,590
    edited October 15
    Time for me to turn in shortly, but I did enjoy this from the Episcopalians, not generally know for their radicalism.


  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,445
    "BBC Verify tracked the plane, and found that it began losing altitude off the south-west coast of Ireland. It then headed back east, having dropped to an altitude of 10,000 feet, accoring to FlightRadar24."

    Accoring! BBC Verify.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,364
    edited October 15
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    How them grocery prices going?

    And health insurance premiums?
    Those are the issues the Dems need to campaign on.

    And contrast the struggles of workers compared to the corruption of the Trump clan.

    Will they though ?

    Or will they yet again retreat to their middle class liberal support of unrestricted abortion, trans rights and illegal immigrants ?
    How th9se soybean sales doing?
    Why are you make silly comments rather than accept reality ?

    Now here's some reality that you might like to consider:

    When was the last time the Dems won more white votes than the GOP ?

    LBJ in 1964.

    But FDR did so in all four of his wins.

    And in congressional elections maybe at some point in the 1980s ?

    So why have the Dems failed repeatedly among the majority demographic when long ago they could win ?

    If I were them I might wonder why their interests and policies weren't in favour and that perhaps they might need changing.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,487
    carnforth said:

    BBC decline continues:

    "Celia Imrie's fart steals the show on Celebrity Traitors"

    She was also in two of my favourite UK obscurities - "House of Whipcord" and "The Nightmare Man".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nightmare_Man_(TV_series)

    (I won't link to the other - to save a NSFW warning...)
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,091
    Can anyone explain whether the Bank of England is still trying to control UK inflation or not?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,197
    Some of you may recall @Leon one-handedly posting a Twix link to a professor who did graphs showing a decline in US trans/NB identification yesterday.

    Well, apparently some spods have had a look and the good professor *may* have used unweighted data, and that the weighted data shows a rise, not a fall

    I can't vouch for this (cos it's late and I'm on the tablet) but the link to the rebuttal is here: https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/fact-check-no-there-is-not-a-new . Have at it
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,734

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    How them grocery prices going?

    And health insurance premiums?
    Those are the issues the Dems need to campaign on.

    And contrast the struggles of workers compared to the corruption of the Trump clan.

    Will they though ?

    Or will they yet again retreat to their middle class liberal support of unrestricted abortion, trans rights and illegal immigrants ?
    How th9se soybean sales doing?
    Why are you make silly comments rather than accept reality ?

    Now here's some reality that you might like to consider:

    When was the last time the Dems won more white votes than the GOP ?

    LBJ in 1964.

    But FDR did so in all four of his wins.

    And in congressional elections maybe at some point in the 1980s ?

    So why have the Dems failed repeatedly among the majority demographic when long ago they could win ?

    If I were them I might wonder why their interests and policies weren't in favour and that perhaps they might need changing.
    LBJ was a "Southern Democrat" so won a large number of white votes in the south. They went to the Republicans after LBJ signed the civil rights act because they were/are racists.
    As the Democrats aren't going to reintroduce segregation, they're not going to win a majority of the white migrant vote unless that demographic becomes less racist.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,114

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    How them grocery prices going?

    And health insurance premiums?
    Those are the issues the Dems need to campaign on.

    And contrast the struggles of workers compared to the corruption of the Trump clan.

    Will they though ?

    Or will they yet again retreat to their middle class liberal support of unrestricted abortion, trans rights and illegal immigrants ?
    How th9se soybean sales doing?
    Why are you make silly comments rather than accept reality ?

    Now here's some reality that you might like to consider:

    When was the last time the Dems won more white votes than the GOP ?

    LBJ in 1964.

    But FDR did so in all four of his wins.

    And in congressional elections maybe at some point in the 1980s ?

    So why have the Dems failed repeatedly among the majority demographic when long ago they could win ?

    If I were them I might wonder why their interests and policies weren't in favour and that perhaps they might need changing.
    I don't believe your reality is reality. Neither do I believe the Democrats who in general are twinned with one nation Tories are the woke lefties you consider them to be.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,065

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    How them grocery prices going?

    And health insurance premiums?
    Those are the issues the Dems need to campaign on.

    And contrast the struggles of workers compared to the corruption of the Trump clan.

    Will they though ?

    Or will they yet again retreat to their middle class liberal support of unrestricted abortion, trans rights and illegal immigrants ?
    How th9se soybean sales doing?
    Why are you make silly comments rather than accept reality ?

    Now here's some reality that you might like to consider:

    When was the last time the Dems won more white votes than the GOP ?

    LBJ in 1964.

    But FDR did so in all four of his wins.

    And in congressional elections maybe at some point in the 1980s ?

    So why have the Dems failed repeatedly among the majority demographic when long ago they could win ?

    If I were them I might wonder why their interests and policies weren't in favour and that perhaps they might need changing.
    They don’t need to win a majority of white votes to win
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,364

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    How them grocery prices going?

    And health insurance premiums?
    Those are the issues the Dems need to campaign on.

    And contrast the struggles of workers compared to the corruption of the Trump clan.

    Will they though ?

    Or will they yet again retreat to their middle class liberal support of unrestricted abortion, trans rights and illegal immigrants ?
    How th9se soybean sales doing?
    Why are you make silly comments rather than accept reality ?

    Now here's some reality that you might like to consider:

    When was the last time the Dems won more white votes than the GOP ?

    LBJ in 1964.

    But FDR did so in all four of his wins.

    And in congressional elections maybe at some point in the 1980s ?

    So why have the Dems failed repeatedly among the majority demographic when long ago they could win ?

    If I were them I might wonder why their interests and policies weren't in favour and that perhaps they might need changing.
    They don’t need to win a majority of white votes to win
    I know that but don't you think it damaging to a party in a two party system that it does so poorly among the majority demographic ?

    Labour would have won more white votes than the Conservatives in 2024 - why shouldn't the Dems be able to develop policies which enable them to win more white votes than the GOP ?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,091
    viewcode said:

    Some of you may recall @Leon one-handedly posting a Twix link to a professor who did graphs showing a decline in US trans/NB identification yesterday.

    Well, apparently some spods have had a look and the good professor *may* have used unweighted data, and that the weighted data shows a rise, not a fall

    I can't vouch for this (cos it's late and I'm on the tablet) but the link to the rebuttal is here: https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/fact-check-no-there-is-not-a-new . Have at it

    The fact the headline refers to Kaufman as 'far right' is not entirely promising for its credibility. I notice that the critic is also transgender themselves.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,445

    viewcode said:

    Some of you may recall @Leon one-handedly posting a Twix link to a professor who did graphs showing a decline in US trans/NB identification yesterday.

    Well, apparently some spods have had a look and the good professor *may* have used unweighted data, and that the weighted data shows a rise, not a fall

    I can't vouch for this (cos it's late and I'm on the tablet) but the link to the rebuttal is here: https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/fact-check-no-there-is-not-a-new . Have at it

    The fact the headline refers to Kaufman as 'far right' is not entirely promising for its credibility. I notice that the critic is also transgender themselves.
    Transgender would be no problem; the author being a well-known rabid TRA moreso.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,065

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    How them grocery prices going?

    And health insurance premiums?
    Those are the issues the Dems need to campaign on.

    And contrast the struggles of workers compared to the corruption of the Trump clan.

    Will they though ?

    Or will they yet again retreat to their middle class liberal support of unrestricted abortion, trans rights and illegal immigrants ?
    How th9se soybean sales doing?
    Why are you make silly comments rather than accept reality ?

    Now here's some reality that you might like to consider:

    When was the last time the Dems won more white votes than the GOP ?

    LBJ in 1964.

    But FDR did so in all four of his wins.

    And in congressional elections maybe at some point in the 1980s ?

    So why have the Dems failed repeatedly among the majority demographic when long ago they could win ?

    If I were them I might wonder why their interests and policies weren't in favour and that perhaps they might need changing.
    They don’t need to win a majority of white votes to win
    I know that but don't you think it damaging to a party in a two party system that it does so poorly among the majority demographic ?

    Labour would have won more white votes than the Conservatives in 2024 - why shouldn't the Dems be able to develop policies which enable them to win more white votes than the GOP ?
    Dems won over 40% of the White vote in 2020. That’s not insignificant.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,364

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    How them grocery prices going?

    And health insurance premiums?
    Those are the issues the Dems need to campaign on.

    And contrast the struggles of workers compared to the corruption of the Trump clan.

    Will they though ?

    Or will they yet again retreat to their middle class liberal support of unrestricted abortion, trans rights and illegal immigrants ?
    How th9se soybean sales doing?
    Why are you make silly comments rather than accept reality ?

    Now here's some reality that you might like to consider:

    When was the last time the Dems won more white votes than the GOP ?

    LBJ in 1964.

    But FDR did so in all four of his wins.

    And in congressional elections maybe at some point in the 1980s ?

    So why have the Dems failed repeatedly among the majority demographic when long ago they could win ?

    If I were them I might wonder why their interests and policies weren't in favour and that perhaps they might need changing.
    I don't believe your reality is reality. Neither do I believe the Democrats who in general are twinned with one nation Tories are the woke lefties you consider them to be.
    What you and I believe is irrelevant.

    But the reality of the voting stats is there for all to see.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,364
    Dopermean said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    How them grocery prices going?

    And health insurance premiums?
    Those are the issues the Dems need to campaign on.

    And contrast the struggles of workers compared to the corruption of the Trump clan.

    Will they though ?

    Or will they yet again retreat to their middle class liberal support of unrestricted abortion, trans rights and illegal immigrants ?
    How th9se soybean sales doing?
    Why are you make silly comments rather than accept reality ?

    Now here's some reality that you might like to consider:

    When was the last time the Dems won more white votes than the GOP ?

    LBJ in 1964.

    But FDR did so in all four of his wins.

    And in congressional elections maybe at some point in the 1980s ?

    So why have the Dems failed repeatedly among the majority demographic when long ago they could win ?

    If I were them I might wonder why their interests and policies weren't in favour and that perhaps they might need changing.
    LBJ was a "Southern Democrat" so won a large number of white votes in the south. They went to the Republicans after LBJ signed the civil rights act because they were/are racists.
    As the Democrats aren't going to reintroduce segregation, they're not going to win a majority of the white migrant vote unless that demographic becomes less racist.
    Take a look at the 1964 result:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_United_States_presidential_election#Results

    Those deep south white voters went to the GOP.

    LBJ won white voters, by over 20%, outside the southern states.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,364

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    How them grocery prices going?

    And health insurance premiums?
    Those are the issues the Dems need to campaign on.

    And contrast the struggles of workers compared to the corruption of the Trump clan.

    Will they though ?

    Or will they yet again retreat to their middle class liberal support of unrestricted abortion, trans rights and illegal immigrants ?
    How th9se soybean sales doing?
    Why are you make silly comments rather than accept reality ?

    Now here's some reality that you might like to consider:

    When was the last time the Dems won more white votes than the GOP ?

    LBJ in 1964.

    But FDR did so in all four of his wins.

    And in congressional elections maybe at some point in the 1980s ?

    So why have the Dems failed repeatedly among the majority demographic when long ago they could win ?

    If I were them I might wonder why their interests and policies weren't in favour and that perhaps they might need changing.
    They don’t need to win a majority of white votes to win
    I know that but don't you think it damaging to a party in a two party system that it does so poorly among the majority demographic ?

    Labour would have won more white votes than the Conservatives in 2024 - why shouldn't the Dems be able to develop policies which enable them to win more white votes than the GOP ?
    Dems won over 40% of the White vote in 2020. That’s not insignificant.
    It isn't but they needed to win more.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,065

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    How them grocery prices going?

    And health insurance premiums?
    Those are the issues the Dems need to campaign on.

    And contrast the struggles of workers compared to the corruption of the Trump clan.

    Will they though ?

    Or will they yet again retreat to their middle class liberal support of unrestricted abortion, trans rights and illegal immigrants ?
    How th9se soybean sales doing?
    Why are you make silly comments rather than accept reality ?

    Now here's some reality that you might like to consider:

    When was the last time the Dems won more white votes than the GOP ?

    LBJ in 1964.

    But FDR did so in all four of his wins.

    And in congressional elections maybe at some point in the 1980s ?

    So why have the Dems failed repeatedly among the majority demographic when long ago they could win ?

    If I were them I might wonder why their interests and policies weren't in favour and that perhaps they might need changing.
    They don’t need to win a majority of white votes to win
    I know that but don't you think it damaging to a party in a two party system that it does so poorly among the majority demographic ?

    Labour would have won more white votes than the Conservatives in 2024 - why shouldn't the Dems be able to develop policies which enable them to win more white votes than the GOP ?
    Dems won over 40% of the White vote in 2020. That’s not insignificant.
    It isn't but they needed to win more.
    Not in 2020 they didn’t. You could equally say that the GOP needs to win more black votes.

    Reform probably wont exceed 40% of the White British vote at a GE. Do they need to win more too?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,364
    Here's a question:

    Devise a policy platform which allows the Dems to win a majority of the white vote at the next election.

    Clue - white voters are in the suburbs, in the rustbelt, in the rural areas.

    Not the cities.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,197

    viewcode said:

    Some of you may recall @Leon one-handedly posting a Twix link to a professor who did graphs showing a decline in US trans/NB identification yesterday.

    Well, apparently some spods have had a look and the good professor *may* have used unweighted data, and that the weighted data shows a rise, not a fall

    I can't vouch for this (cos it's late and I'm on the tablet) but the link to the rebuttal is here: https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/fact-check-no-there-is-not-a-new . Have at it

    The fact the headline refers to Kaufman as 'far right' is not entirely promising for its credibility. I notice that the critic is also transgender themselves.
    True, but the essential point is whether the OP used weighted or unweighted data, not the personal characteristics of the rebuttaler
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,364

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    How them grocery prices going?

    And health insurance premiums?
    Those are the issues the Dems need to campaign on.

    And contrast the struggles of workers compared to the corruption of the Trump clan.

    Will they though ?

    Or will they yet again retreat to their middle class liberal support of unrestricted abortion, trans rights and illegal immigrants ?
    How th9se soybean sales doing?
    Why are you make silly comments rather than accept reality ?

    Now here's some reality that you might like to consider:

    When was the last time the Dems won more white votes than the GOP ?

    LBJ in 1964.

    But FDR did so in all four of his wins.

    And in congressional elections maybe at some point in the 1980s ?

    So why have the Dems failed repeatedly among the majority demographic when long ago they could win ?

    If I were them I might wonder why their interests and policies weren't in favour and that perhaps they might need changing.
    They don’t need to win a majority of white votes to win
    I know that but don't you think it damaging to a party in a two party system that it does so poorly among the majority demographic ?

    Labour would have won more white votes than the Conservatives in 2024 - why shouldn't the Dems be able to develop policies which enable them to win more white votes than the GOP ?
    Dems won over 40% of the White vote in 2020. That’s not insignificant.
    It isn't but they needed to win more.
    Not in 2020 they didn’t. You could equally say that the GOP needs to win more black votes.

    Reform probably wont exceed 40% of the White British vote at a GE. Do they need to win more too?
    My mistake, I thought you were talking about 2024 - its getting late :wink:

    Certainly the GOP could do with expanding their electoral coalition and indeed they did so in 2024 with Latino voters - but overall having a majority of the majority demographic gives a more solid base than trying to assemble a coalition of minorities.

    Reform have the advantage of a fragmented multi party system - receiving 35% in the UK gets you a lot more than receiving 45% in the USA does.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,114

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    How them grocery prices going?

    And health insurance premiums?
    Those are the issues the Dems need to campaign on.

    And contrast the struggles of workers compared to the corruption of the Trump clan.

    Will they though ?

    Or will they yet again retreat to their middle class liberal support of unrestricted abortion, trans rights and illegal immigrants ?
    How th9se soybean sales doing?
    Why are you make silly comments rather than accept reality ?

    Now here's some reality that you might like to consider:

    When was the last time the Dems won more white votes than the GOP ?

    LBJ in 1964.

    But FDR did so in all four of his wins.

    And in congressional elections maybe at some point in the 1980s ?

    So why have the Dems failed repeatedly among the majority demographic when long ago they could win ?

    If I were them I might wonder why their interests and policies weren't in favour and that perhaps they might need changing.
    I don't believe your reality is reality. Neither do I believe the Democrats who in general are twinned with one nation Tories are the woke lefties you consider them to be.
    What you and I believe is irrelevant.

    But the reality of the voting stats is there for all to see.
    I am not entirely sure I understand your obsession with the "white" vote.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,053
    edited October 15
    Chances of success of this venture?

    "British border officers sent to Balkans to stem flow of migrants
    Shabana Mahmood, the home secretary, hopes to close down popular transit route into western Europe" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/border-officers-balkans-shabana-mahmood-bb6lmgp3d
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,197
    Andy_JS said:

    Chances of success of this venture?

    "British border officers sent to Balkans to stem flow of migrants
    Shabana Mahmood, the home secretary, hopes to close down popular transit route into western Europe" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/border-officers-balkans-shabana-mahmood-bb6lmgp3d

    It'll be like putting your finger over one hole in a sieve. ☹️
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,948

    Here's a question:

    Devise a policy platform which allows the Dems to win a majority of the white vote at the next election.

    Clue - white voters are in the suburbs, in the rustbelt, in the rural areas.

    Not the cities.

    Hang on.

    It's a teeny weeny bit more complex than that.

    The whitest states in the US are Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire, all around 93% white. All voted Democrat in the last Presidential election. And, indeed, in most of the Presidential elections in the recent past. Indeed, there are a whole bunch of States where the Democrats almost certainly won a majority of the white vote.

    Where the Democrats do very poorly is with white voters in the South. Their white vote share in -say- Alabama or Mississippi is going to be absolutely terrible.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,880

    Can anyone explain whether the Bank of England is still trying to control UK inflation or not?

    I'm sure they are.

    The problem is that the rest of government is doing its best to raise the cost of living, most obviously in putting up NI and other taxes which fed through into higher prices, but also the sector regulators like Ofwat that have just massively increased prices and so on.

    There is a limit to what monetary policy can do on inflation if the rest of government is determined to sabotage it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,353
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The China spying case leading the news. Good. First time for ages I haven't switched it off straight away.

    I really haven't followed this story at all.

    Is there a one paragraph summary somewhere?
    This from Sky just now

    https://news.sky.com/liveblog-webview/politics-latest-starmer-india-labour-gaza-protests-tax-12593360
    I wonder what evidence they aren’t publishing?
    It's truly impressive how crap the political intelligence being passed on was:

    https://bsky.app/profile/jessicaelgot.bsky.social/post/3m3b52djvb226

    The Chinese would do better lurking on PB.
    It is an old chestnut that intelligence services would be better if they ditched the spies and read the newspapers.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,482
    Andy_JS said:

    The 13 seats Your Party would win with today's Electoral Calculus MRP.

    Bradford West
    Blackburn
    Islington North
    Bethnal Green and Stepney
    Birmingham Ladywood
    Leicester South
    Birmingham Perry Barr
    Dewsbury and Batley
    Birmingham Hall Green and Moseley
    Slough
    Ilford South
    Ilford North
    East Ham


    Surprised Birmingham Yardley isn’t on there.

    Hall Green and Moseley must have changed a great deal since I used to knock around there.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,353
    UK government's plans to save £45 billion through the application of AI in the public sector lack clarity and are based on broad-brush assumptions, Members of Parliament have heard.

    Speaking to the House of Commons Science, Innovation and Technology Committee, Nick Davies, programme director at the Institute for Government, said the figure was a "huge amount, given that most of what government is spending on is either salaries or is on different kinds of infrastructure."

    ...
    Davies told MPs that making actual savings – or reducing spending – by that level would mean drastic changes. "Unless you have serious plans to make pretty meaningful headcount reductions or reduce capital expenditure, it's going to be very difficult to achieve that £45 billion," he said.

    "If you're talking about productivity improvements – improvements of service of the value of £45 billion – that could be delivered with existing spending. I think that is more achievable."

    ...
    When questioned by the Parliamentary committee, DSIT said the figure was calculated on the assumption that "100 percent of routine tasks and 10 percent of non-routine tasks can be automated."

    Davies said: "I don't know what a routine task is. I don't know if the government knows what a routine task is either."

    https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/15/uk_gov_ai_savings/


  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,104

    Andy_JS said:

    The 13 seats Your Party would win with today's Electoral Calculus MRP.

    Bradford West
    Blackburn
    Islington North
    Bethnal Green and Stepney
    Birmingham Ladywood
    Leicester South
    Birmingham Perry Barr
    Dewsbury and Batley
    Birmingham Hall Green and Moseley
    Slough
    Ilford South
    Ilford North
    East Ham

    It’s the Muslim party
    Plus Islington North
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,305
    I see the witness statements are written in the present tense and have words lifted straight from the Labour manifesto:

    https://x.com/Tony_Diver/status/1978568669861912712

    There appears to be a smoking gun in the Collins statements.

    Ministers have said they could only use old Conservative policy in evidence.

    But this "three Cs" approach, detailed by Collins, is David Lammy's policy. Therefore it appears Labour was able to define China itself.


    I had been wondering what the situation would be if the Conservative government considered China to be an enemy but the current Labour government didn't. Could a prosecution have happened in those circumstances? I'm sceptical. My suspicion is that it needed the government to consistently view China as an enemy.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,543

    UK government's plans to save £45 billion through the application of AI in the public sector lack clarity and are based on broad-brush assumptions, Members of Parliament have heard.

    Speaking to the House of Commons Science, Innovation and Technology Committee, Nick Davies, programme director at the Institute for Government, said the figure was a "huge amount, given that most of what government is spending on is either salaries or is on different kinds of infrastructure."

    ...
    Davies told MPs that making actual savings – or reducing spending – by that level would mean drastic changes. "Unless you have serious plans to make pretty meaningful headcount reductions or reduce capital expenditure, it's going to be very difficult to achieve that £45 billion," he said.

    "If you're talking about productivity improvements – improvements of service of the value of £45 billion – that could be delivered with existing spending. I think that is more achievable."

    ...
    When questioned by the Parliamentary committee, DSIT said the figure was calculated on the assumption that "100 percent of routine tasks and 10 percent of non-routine tasks can be automated."

    Davies said: "I don't know what a routine task is. I don't know if the government knows what a routine task is either."

    https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/15/uk_gov_ai_savings/


    LOL, like most CEOs and AI salespeople, they all take about how the technology will totally change their operations, leading to massive improvements in service levels and productivity - but they over ever speak in generalities, never in specifics.

    Public accounts committees, on the other hand, want to see the specifics and the value added from the spending.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,543
    carnforth said:

    "BBC Verify tracked the plane, and found that it began losing altitude off the south-west coast of Ireland. It then headed back east, having dropped to an altitude of 10,000 feet, accoring to FlightRadar24."

    Accoring! BBC Verify.

    So someone at the BBC was watching ADSB transponder websites just like the rest of us. Good to know, but not sure what the BBC think they add to the conversation.

    FR24 alone had 50,000 people tracking SecDef’s broken plane in real time, because that’s how these things work.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,304

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."



    Too late. Leon's already left.

    If crime really is bad there, I don't see what the problem is.
    The police are trained to police: arrest criminals, maintain order, maintain the existing rule of law
    The army are trained to wage war: kill people, create disorder, impose a new rule of law.

    Using the army to police a city is asking for trouble. See Bloody Sunday for a UK example.
    "There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."
    I had dinner last night with a friend who lives in DC.

    She said that the military is patrolling areas with no crime - the Washington monument area, for example, and not spending any time in the districts where there is a crime problem
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,543
    Trump: Modi assured me today that [India] will not be buying oil from Russia.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1978554834228740192

    Sanctions seem to be working.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,304
    Sandpit said:

    Trump: Modi assured me today that [India] will not be buying oil from Russia.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1978554834228740192

    Sanctions seem to be working.

    If you believe Trump, Modi and that everyone in India will follow the rules.

    A few points of failure there…
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,417
    Andy_JS said:

    The China spying case leading the news. Good. First time for ages I haven't switched it off straight away.

    It's been Gaza or Sport I don't care about for so long, that I've skipped the news for months.
  • Please take the trouble to listen to this morning's Farming Today on BBC Sounds Radio Four playback.

    Absolutely scathing analysis of Stephen Reed's actions as Defra Secretary and genuine empathy for Emma Reynolds and Angela Eagle who have to sort out the mess this Starmer placeman has left. All credit to ER and AE that they are trying to undo some of the harm.

    When ER was appointed the NFU President said I know nothing about you except you cannot be as bad as your predecessor.

    The consequences for local government and house building must be horrific. Stephen Reeds tenure at Defra must be fairly close to Malfeasance in Public Office. I thought it would be impossible for anyone to be as hopeless as Liz Truss at Defra. Clearly Stephen Reed said, "Hold my Beer" !
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,590
    Sandpit said:

    UK government's plans to save £45 billion through the application of AI in the public sector lack clarity and are based on broad-brush assumptions, Members of Parliament have heard.

    Speaking to the House of Commons Science, Innovation and Technology Committee, Nick Davies, programme director at the Institute for Government, said the figure was a "huge amount, given that most of what government is spending on is either salaries or is on different kinds of infrastructure."

    ...
    Davies told MPs that making actual savings – or reducing spending – by that level would mean drastic changes. "Unless you have serious plans to make pretty meaningful headcount reductions or reduce capital expenditure, it's going to be very difficult to achieve that £45 billion," he said.

    "If you're talking about productivity improvements – improvements of service of the value of £45 billion – that could be delivered with existing spending. I think that is more achievable."

    ...
    When questioned by the Parliamentary committee, DSIT said the figure was calculated on the assumption that "100 percent of routine tasks and 10 percent of non-routine tasks can be automated."

    Davies said: "I don't know what a routine task is. I don't know if the government knows what a routine task is either."

    https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/15/uk_gov_ai_savings/


    LOL, like most CEOs and AI salespeople, they all take about how the technology will totally change their operations, leading to massive improvements in service levels and productivity - but they over ever speak in generalities, never in specifics.

    Public accounts committees, on the other hand, want to see the specifics and the value added from the spending.
    AI is a major part of Streetings 10 year plan for the NHS.

    https://www.sbs.nhs.uk/news/healthcare-artificial-intelligence-solutions/#:~:text=AI has the potential to,greatest impact for the patient.

    Considering the state of NHS IT infrastructure and support I think this could politely be described as a little optimistic.

    At Leicester we have been struggling with this system installation for months

    https://nervecentresoftware.com/pas-goes-live-in-leicester/

    I think if fair to say that the front line staff both clinical and administrative would give a far less hagiographic description than the puff in that link.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,543

    Sandpit said:

    Trump: Modi assured me today that [India] will not be buying oil from Russia.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1978554834228740192

    Sanctions seem to be working.

    If you believe Trump, Modi and that everyone in India will follow the rules.

    A few points of failure there…
    I’m an optimist.

    Let’s see if Modi can actually stop dodgy tankers docking at Indian ports, or Indian oil companies trying to find ways around sanctions.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,948
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Trump: Modi assured me today that [India] will not be buying oil from Russia.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1978554834228740192

    Sanctions seem to be working.

    If you believe Trump, Modi and that everyone in India will follow the rules.

    A few points of failure there…
    I’m an optimist.

    Let’s see if Modi can actually stop dodgy tankers docking at Indian ports, or Indian oil companies trying to find ways around sanctions.
    As far as I am aware, there are no legal consequences for Indian refineries who buy Russian oil.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,353
    I'm too tired to re-watch PMQs but I think there were a couple more Starmer mis-speaks there. Hansard's no good because it cleans things up. Anyway, I still think Starmer will retire early but I'm starting to worry the various gates (China, Mandy, McSweeney) will cement him in place because he won't want to give Kemi the win.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,197
    Clocks go back Sunday October 26.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,197
    I don't know if this is good or bad, but it's interesting

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4033j74qlo
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,497
    So the increase in pension age from 62 to 64 in France has now been put on hold in an effort to keep the government afloat .

    Macron burnt huge amounts of political capital and emboldened the far left and far right only to end up with the policy effectively delayed indefinitely.

    It seems now no future Presidential candidate can bring back this policy if they want to win . I’m sure Brits would love to retire at 64 and yet the reality of an aging population hasn’t broken through in France !

    The country is becoming ungovernable and it’s only the weight of the ECB that stops a financial meltdown.

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,304
    viewcode said:

    I don't know if this is good or bad, but it's interesting

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4033j74qlo

    Each of Labour, the Lib Dems and the Tories have their little patches of strength so they want to separate them. Reform want to combine them as they are second everywhere so first overall.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,590
    nico67 said:

    So the increase in pension age from 62 to 64 in France has now been put on hold in an effort to keep the government afloat .

    Macron burnt huge amounts of political capital and emboldened the far left and far right only to end up with the policy effectively delayed indefinitely.

    It seems now no future Presidential candidate can bring back this policy if they want to win . I’m sure Brits would love to retire at 64 and yet the reality of an aging population hasn’t broken through in France !

    The country is becoming ungovernable and it’s only the weight of the ECB that stops a financial meltdown.

    Delaying retirement polls poorly with young people. While younger workers are paying for it, they want to retire themselves in comfort. The same applies to the Triple Lock here.

    France is not unique with this. Britain exists in the same ungovernable state of cognitive dissonance.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,497
    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    So the increase in pension age from 62 to 64 in France has now been put on hold in an effort to keep the government afloat .

    Macron burnt huge amounts of political capital and emboldened the far left and far right only to end up with the policy effectively delayed indefinitely.

    It seems now no future Presidential candidate can bring back this policy if they want to win . I’m sure Brits would love to retire at 64 and yet the reality of an aging population hasn’t broken through in France !

    The country is becoming ungovernable and it’s only the weight of the ECB that stops a financial meltdown.

    Delaying retirement polls poorly with young people. While younger workers are paying for it, they want to retire themselves in comfort. The same applies to the Triple Lock here.

    France is not unique with this. Britain exists in the same ungovernable state of cognitive dissonance.
    In terms of the triple lock yes but Brits seem more realistic about the pension age. Although I think there would be a problem if any further increase was suggested .
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,939

    I'm too tired to re-watch PMQs but I think there were a couple more Starmer mis-speaks there. Hansard's no good because it cleans things up. Anyway, I still think Starmer will retire early but I'm starting to worry the various gates (China, Mandy, McSweeney) will cement him in place because he won't want to give Kemi the win.

    I didn't notice anything beyond the usual flustered blubbering.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,543
    edited 6:07AM

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    There’s seemingingly one sensible Democrat at the moment, and it’s the guy who could barely talk a couple of years ago, Sen Fetterman.

    Thankfully for the Republicans, he has precisely no chance of getting near the nomination, as the primary voters are thise who care most about the extremes of the social issues.

    https://x.com/vigilantfox/status/1978624341903618424

    Meanwhile, Rep Ocasio-Cortez, doing a tour with Mamdani and Sen Sanders, thinks that accountants are responsible for river pollution.

    https://x.com/_johnnymaga/status/1978647371002077420

    She does have a chance at the nomination in future, although probably not this cycle. Perhaps NYers need to actually experience a properly socialist mayor before they turn away from the concept.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,543
    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    So the increase in pension age from 62 to 64 in France has now been put on hold in an effort to keep the government afloat .

    Macron burnt huge amounts of political capital and emboldened the far left and far right only to end up with the policy effectively delayed indefinitely.

    It seems now no future Presidential candidate can bring back this policy if they want to win . I’m sure Brits would love to retire at 64 and yet the reality of an aging population hasn’t broken through in France !

    The country is becoming ungovernable and it’s only the weight of the ECB that stops a financial meltdown.

    Delaying retirement polls poorly with young people. While younger workers are paying for it, they want to retire themselves in comfort. The same applies to the Triple Lock here.

    France is not unique with this. Britain exists in the same ungovernable state of cognitive dissonance.
    At least in the UK there is some understanding of the inevitability of retirement age increasing.

    Not so in France. 62 is a long way from the UK’s 67.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,140
    Andy_JS said:

    "An upper-middle-class former banker friend recently attended a Reform UK selection meeting for council candidates in a decaying southern coastal town. Although he is a man of the world who once worked on oil rigs and in a shoe shop, my banker friend professed himself ‘shocked’ by the standards of dress and deportment of the other would-be candidates. Naturally all were overweight and tattooed, and all were dressed in shorts, baseball caps and hooded tracksuit tops – the standard everyday uniform of most British men under the age of 60. They were, it is fair to say, an average representation of the male members of what was once called ‘the working class’."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/real-british-values

    says a toffee nosed twat
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,590
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    There’s seemingingly one sensible Democrat at the moment, and it’s the guy who could barely talk a couple of years ago, Sen Fetterman.

    Thankfully for the Republicans, he has precisely no chance of getting near the nomination, as the primary voters are thise who care most about the extremes of the social issues.

    https://x.com/vigilantfox/status/1978624341903618424

    Meanwhile, Rep Ocasio-Cortez, doing a tour with Mamdani and Sen Sanders, thinks that accountants are responsible for river pollution.

    https://x.com/_johnnymaga/status/1978647371002077420

    She does have a chance at the nomination in future, although probably not this cycle. Perhaps NYers need to actually experience a properly socialist mayor before they turn away from the concept.
    AOC brilliant here on why she supports healthcare in MAGA districts, and the difference between Republicans and Democrats on democracy.

    https://bsky.app/profile/thetnholler.bsky.social/post/3m3bqcjnork24
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,990
    Intriguing

    “Trump Considers Overhaul of Refugee System That Would Favor White People

    The proposals would transform a program aimed at helping the most vulnerable people in the world into one that gives preference to mostly white people who say they are being persecuted.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/15/us/politics/trump-refugee-white-people.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,353
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    So the increase in pension age from 62 to 64 in France has now been put on hold in an effort to keep the government afloat .

    Macron burnt huge amounts of political capital and emboldened the far left and far right only to end up with the policy effectively delayed indefinitely.

    It seems now no future Presidential candidate can bring back this policy if they want to win . I’m sure Brits would love to retire at 64 and yet the reality of an aging population hasn’t broken through in France !

    The country is becoming ungovernable and it’s only the weight of the ECB that stops a financial meltdown.

    Delaying retirement polls poorly with young people. While younger workers are paying for it, they want to retire themselves in comfort. The same applies to the Triple Lock here.

    France is not unique with this. Britain exists in the same ungovernable state of cognitive dissonance.
    At least in the UK there is some understanding of the inevitability of retirement age increasing.

    Not so in France. 62 is a long way from the UK’s 67.
    Funny that France can afford to pay better state pensions than ours, however people want to fudge the extra couple of years. Something something boomers. Something something triple lock.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,590
    Andy_JS said:

    "An upper-middle-class former banker friend recently attended a Reform UK selection meeting for council candidates in a decaying southern coastal town. Although he is a man of the world who once worked on oil rigs and in a shoe shop, my banker friend professed himself ‘shocked’ by the standards of dress and deportment of the other would-be candidates. Naturally all were overweight and tattooed, and all were dressed in shorts, baseball caps and hooded tracksuit tops – the standard everyday uniform of most British men under the age of 60. They were, it is fair to say, an average representation of the male members of what was once called ‘the working class’."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/real-british-values

    I find that really quite insulting of the Spectator to describe such slobs as typical of most British men under the age of 60.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,749
    rcs1000 said:

    Here's a question:

    Devise a policy platform which allows the Dems to win a majority of the white vote at the next election.

    Clue - white voters are in the suburbs, in the rustbelt, in the rural areas.

    Not the cities.

    Hang on.

    It's a teeny weeny bit more complex than that.

    The whitest states in the US are Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire, all around 93% white. All voted Democrat in the last Presidential election. And, indeed, in most of the Presidential elections in the recent past. Indeed, there are a whole bunch of States where the Democrats almost certainly won a majority of the white vote.

    Where the Democrats do very poorly is with white voters in the South. Their white vote share in -say- Alabama or Mississippi is going to be absolutely terrible.
    The last Democrat to win the white vote was LBJ, even most white women haven't voted Democrat since Bill Clinton, who also was the last Democratic presidential candidate to win rural areas.

    Where the Democrats do need to win to gain Congress next year and the White House is suburban middle class voters of all races, the type of voters who voted for Obama and Biden but narrowly backed Trump last year
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,207
    The only story that should be being investigated is Mandleson. The Chinese crap.is an irrelvance to draw people away from the real story that is Mandleson. Something stinks in the State of Denmark and people don't want the truth to come out.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,590
    I am beginning to look forward to the Robo-Apocalypse. Human society is done.

    The evidence? Kim Kardashians new range of synthetic public hair wigs are sold out.

    https://www.cnn.com/2025/10/15/style/kim-kardashian-skims-thong-pubic-scli-intl
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,228
    edited 6:34AM
    A
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    There’s seemingingly one sensible Democrat at the moment, and it’s the guy who could barely talk a couple of years ago, Sen Fetterman.

    Thankfully for the Republicans, he has precisely no chance of getting near the nomination, as the primary voters are thise who care most about the extremes of the social issues.

    https://x.com/vigilantfox/status/1978624341903618424

    Meanwhile, Rep Ocasio-Cortez, doing a tour with Mamdani and Sen Sanders, thinks that accountants are responsible for river pollution.

    https://x.com/_johnnymaga/status/1978647371002077420

    She does have a chance at the nomination in future, although probably not this cycle. Perhaps NYers need to actually experience a properly socialist mayor before they turn away from the concept.
    Fetterman suffered pretty severe brain damage that coincided with his switch to MAGAism.

    Reminds me of the famous Louis Theroux clip:https://youtu.be/vOos2ESq3sU?si=18536xQL8sn8n-vM
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,204
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "An upper-middle-class former banker friend recently attended a Reform UK selection meeting for council candidates in a decaying southern coastal town. Although he is a man of the world who once worked on oil rigs and in a shoe shop, my banker friend professed himself ‘shocked’ by the standards of dress and deportment of the other would-be candidates. Naturally all were overweight and tattooed, and all were dressed in shorts, baseball caps and hooded tracksuit tops – the standard everyday uniform of most British men under the age of 60. They were, it is fair to say, an average representation of the male members of what was once called ‘the working class’."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/real-british-values

    I find that really quite insulting of the Spectator to describe such slobs as typical of most British men under the age of 60.
    One of the quirks of the conservative psyche is fear of the mob, and an exaggerated gratitude for those who can mob-whisper.

    Farage may be an oik, but if he can keep the scary mob in line, more power to his elbow, eh?

    (It is one of the unresolved questions about Reform, though. Part of the party is Nigel, Zia and retired bankers. Part of the party is the sort of men sneered at in this article. Those two groups are only united in their hatred of centrist dads and foreigners. What happens when they notice that they hate each other almost as much? It may not happen before the next election, but it will happen.)
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,734
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "An upper-middle-class former banker friend recently attended a Reform UK selection meeting for council candidates in a decaying southern coastal town. Although he is a man of the world who once worked on oil rigs and in a shoe shop, my banker friend professed himself ‘shocked’ by the standards of dress and deportment of the other would-be candidates. Naturally all were overweight and tattooed, and all were dressed in shorts, baseball caps and hooded tracksuit tops – the standard everyday uniform of most British men under the age of 60. They were, it is fair to say, an average representation of the male members of what was once called ‘the working class’."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/real-british-values

    I find that really quite insulting of the Spectator to describe such slobs as typical of most British men under the age of 60.
    The Spectator is Reform supporting, so you would expect their social circle to be Reform people. As per Imperial College's study Reform voters trend unfit and obese compared to the norm and over 30% of 24-74 year olds are obese. So it's possible that most men known to Spectator columnists are obese...
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,228
    Leon said:

    Intriguing

    “Trump Considers Overhaul of Refugee System That Would Favor White People

    The proposals would transform a program aimed at helping the most vulnerable people in the world into one that gives preference to mostly white people who say they are being persecuted.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/15/us/politics/trump-refugee-white-people.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    Chechens?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,749
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Intriguing

    “Trump Considers Overhaul of Refugee System That Would Favor White People

    The proposals would transform a program aimed at helping the most vulnerable people in the world into one that gives preference to mostly white people who say they are being persecuted.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/15/us/politics/trump-refugee-white-people.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    Chechens?
    And Afrikaners?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,417
    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "An upper-middle-class former banker friend recently attended a Reform UK selection meeting for council candidates in a decaying southern coastal town. Although he is a man of the world who once worked on oil rigs and in a shoe shop, my banker friend professed himself ‘shocked’ by the standards of dress and deportment of the other would-be candidates. Naturally all were overweight and tattooed, and all were dressed in shorts, baseball caps and hooded tracksuit tops – the standard everyday uniform of most British men under the age of 60. They were, it is fair to say, an average representation of the male members of what was once called ‘the working class’."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/real-british-values

    says a toffee nosed twat
    I think men dress terribly these days.

    It's like they can't be bothered and don't care how they look.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,548

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    How them grocery prices going?

    And health insurance premiums?
    Those are the issues the Dems need to campaign on.

    And contrast the struggles of workers compared to the corruption of the Trump clan.

    Will they though ?

    Or will they yet again retreat to their middle class liberal support of unrestricted abortion, trans rights and illegal immigrants ?
    How th9se soybean sales doing?
    Why are you make silly comments rather than accept reality ?

    Now here's some reality that you might like to consider:

    When was the last time the Dems won more white votes than the GOP ?

    LBJ in 1964.

    But FDR did so in all four of his wins.

    And in congressional elections maybe at some point in the 1980s ?

    So why have the Dems failed repeatedly among the majority demographic when long ago they could win ?

    If I were them I might wonder why their interests and policies weren't in favour and that perhaps they might need changing.
    Civil Rights Act of 1964.

    Are you suggesting that the Democrats reverse their position on segregation to win back the votes of white Americans?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,734
    Leon said:

    Intriguing

    “Trump Considers Overhaul of Refugee System That Would Favor White People

    The proposals would transform a program aimed at helping the most vulnerable people in the world into one that gives preference to mostly white people who say they are being persecuted.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/15/us/politics/trump-refugee-white-people.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    Intriguing? He's already offered guaranteed asylum to white South Africans.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,228
    Dopermean said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "An upper-middle-class former banker friend recently attended a Reform UK selection meeting for council candidates in a decaying southern coastal town. Although he is a man of the world who once worked on oil rigs and in a shoe shop, my banker friend professed himself ‘shocked’ by the standards of dress and deportment of the other would-be candidates. Naturally all were overweight and tattooed, and all were dressed in shorts, baseball caps and hooded tracksuit tops – the standard everyday uniform of most British men under the age of 60. They were, it is fair to say, an average representation of the male members of what was once called ‘the working class’."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/real-british-values

    I find that really quite insulting of the Spectator to describe such slobs as typical of most British men under the age of 60.
    The Spectator is Reform supporting, so you would expect their social circle to be Reform people. As per Imperial College's study Reform voters trend unfit and obese compared to the norm and over 30% of 24-74 year olds are obese. So it's possible that most men known to Spectator columnists are obese...
    That doesn't square with Leon's depiction of Ubermensch alpha cocks.

    Paper here: https://bmjopenrespres.bmj.com/content/12/1/e003526
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,751

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "An upper-middle-class former banker friend recently attended a Reform UK selection meeting for council candidates in a decaying southern coastal town. Although he is a man of the world who once worked on oil rigs and in a shoe shop, my banker friend professed himself ‘shocked’ by the standards of dress and deportment of the other would-be candidates. Naturally all were overweight and tattooed, and all were dressed in shorts, baseball caps and hooded tracksuit tops – the standard everyday uniform of most British men under the age of 60. They were, it is fair to say, an average representation of the male members of what was once called ‘the working class’."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/real-british-values

    I find that really quite insulting of the Spectator to describe such slobs as typical of most British men under the age of 60.
    One of the quirks of the conservative psyche is fear of the mob, and an exaggerated gratitude for those who can mob-whisper.

    Farage may be an oik, but if he can keep the scary mob in line, more power to his elbow, eh?

    (It is one of the unresolved questions about Reform, though. Part of the party is Nigel, Zia and retired bankers. Part of the party is the sort of men sneered at in this article. Those two groups are only united in their hatred of centrist dads and foreigners. What happens when they notice that they hate each other almost as much? It may not happen before the next election, but it will happen.)
    Isn't the usual approach bread and circuses.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,590

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "An upper-middle-class former banker friend recently attended a Reform UK selection meeting for council candidates in a decaying southern coastal town. Although he is a man of the world who once worked on oil rigs and in a shoe shop, my banker friend professed himself ‘shocked’ by the standards of dress and deportment of the other would-be candidates. Naturally all were overweight and tattooed, and all were dressed in shorts, baseball caps and hooded tracksuit tops – the standard everyday uniform of most British men under the age of 60. They were, it is fair to say, an average representation of the male members of what was once called ‘the working class’."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/real-british-values

    I find that really quite insulting of the Spectator to describe such slobs as typical of most British men under the age of 60.
    One of the quirks of the conservative psyche is fear of the mob, and an exaggerated gratitude for those who can mob-whisper.

    Farage may be an oik, but if he can keep the scary mob in line, more power to his elbow, eh?

    (It is one of the unresolved questions about Reform, though. Part of the party is Nigel, Zia and retired bankers. Part of the party is the sort of men sneered at in this article. Those two groups are only united in their hatred of centrist dads and foreigners. What happens when they notice that they hate each other almost as much? It may not happen before the next election, but it will happen.)
    Yes, there's interesting work that shows Reform voters are left of centre on economic issues such as tax and spend, while the leadership is heavily into small state and Milei* style government cuts. I dont expect that to materialise as a conflict until after the GE though.

    * strangely the Right seems to have gone quiet on copying Milei recently. Can anyone explain this?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,646
    Foxy said:

    I am beginning to look forward to the Robo-Apocalypse. Human society is done.

    The evidence? Kim Kardashians new range of synthetic public hair wigs are sold out.

    https://www.cnn.com/2025/10/15/style/kim-kardashian-skims-thong-pubic-scli-intl

    Although some hair should not be public, surely?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,728

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    How them grocery prices going?

    And health insurance premiums?
    Those are the issues the Dems need to campaign on.

    And contrast the struggles of workers compared to the corruption of the Trump clan.

    Will they though ?

    Or will they yet again retreat to their middle class liberal support of unrestricted abortion, trans rights and illegal immigrants ?
    How th9se soybean sales doing?
    Why are you make silly comments rather than accept reality ?

    Now here's some reality that you might like to consider:

    When was the last time the Dems won more white votes than the GOP ?

    LBJ in 1964.

    But FDR did so in all four of his wins.

    And in congressional elections maybe at some point in the 1980s ?

    So why have the Dems failed repeatedly among the majority demographic when long ago they could win ?

    If I were them I might wonder why their interests and policies weren't in favour and that perhaps they might need changing.
    Civil Rights Act of 1964.

    Are you suggesting that the Democrats reverse their position on segregation to win back the votes of white Americans?
    Carter in 1976, and Clinton in 1992 and 1996 were almost level with their opponents, among white voters. So, it's not a question of repealing the Civil Rights Act, but rather, trying to emulate Carter and Clinton.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,353

    The only story that should be being investigated is Mandleson. The Chinese crap.is an irrelvance to draw people away from the real story that is Mandleson. Something stinks in the State of Denmark and people don't want the truth to come out.

    It could be Mandelson. Or McSweeney who heads Starmer's Number 10 team – there have been many ousted from there, and the book The Fraud is due out next month so review copies will circulate soon if not already.

    But yes, as Ed Balls said on Political Currency, China looks like a dead cat. Cynics might suggest you could say the same thing the other way round, and that Mandelson was sacrificed to hide Chinagate. Sometimes news is like buses and more than one story arrives at once, but sometimes news is like buses in the sense of Boris painting buses, contrived to distract a gullible media.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,228
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "An upper-middle-class former banker friend recently attended a Reform UK selection meeting for council candidates in a decaying southern coastal town. Although he is a man of the world who once worked on oil rigs and in a shoe shop, my banker friend professed himself ‘shocked’ by the standards of dress and deportment of the other would-be candidates. Naturally all were overweight and tattooed, and all were dressed in shorts, baseball caps and hooded tracksuit tops – the standard everyday uniform of most British men under the age of 60. They were, it is fair to say, an average representation of the male members of what was once called ‘the working class’."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/real-british-values

    I find that really quite insulting of the Spectator to describe such slobs as typical of most British men under the age of 60.
    One of the quirks of the conservative psyche is fear of the mob, and an exaggerated gratitude for those who can mob-whisper.

    Farage may be an oik, but if he can keep the scary mob in line, more power to his elbow, eh?

    (It is one of the unresolved questions about Reform, though. Part of the party is Nigel, Zia and retired bankers. Part of the party is the sort of men sneered at in this article. Those two groups are only united in their hatred of centrist dads and foreigners. What happens when they notice that they hate each other almost as much? It may not happen before the next election, but it will happen.)
    Yes, there's interesting work that shows Reform voters are left of centre on economic issues such as tax and spend, while the leadership is heavily into small state and Milei* style government cuts. I dont expect that to materialise as a conflict until after the GE though.

    * strangely the Right seems to have gone quiet on copying Milei recently. Can anyone explain this?
    After all the talk of an IMF bailout for the UK, it's Milei's Argentina needing one.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,140

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "An upper-middle-class former banker friend recently attended a Reform UK selection meeting for council candidates in a decaying southern coastal town. Although he is a man of the world who once worked on oil rigs and in a shoe shop, my banker friend professed himself ‘shocked’ by the standards of dress and deportment of the other would-be candidates. Naturally all were overweight and tattooed, and all were dressed in shorts, baseball caps and hooded tracksuit tops – the standard everyday uniform of most British men under the age of 60. They were, it is fair to say, an average representation of the male members of what was once called ‘the working class’."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/real-british-values

    says a toffee nosed twat
    I think men dress terribly these days.

    It's like they can't be bothered and don't care how they look.
    there are some sartorial horrors about nowadays but for some twat to lump everyone under the same shellsuit says more about them.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,646
    Leon said:

    Intriguing

    “Trump Considers Overhaul of Refugee System That Would Favor White People

    The proposals would transform a program aimed at helping the most vulnerable people in the world into one that gives preference to mostly white people who say they are being persecuted.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/15/us/politics/trump-refugee-white-people.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    Checks dictionary for the definition of 'intriguing' that equals 'racist'... Nope, not there.

    Presumably, you'd have found the Nuremberg Laws 'intriguing'?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,728
    edited 6:53AM

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "An upper-middle-class former banker friend recently attended a Reform UK selection meeting for council candidates in a decaying southern coastal town. Although he is a man of the world who once worked on oil rigs and in a shoe shop, my banker friend professed himself ‘shocked’ by the standards of dress and deportment of the other would-be candidates. Naturally all were overweight and tattooed, and all were dressed in shorts, baseball caps and hooded tracksuit tops – the standard everyday uniform of most British men under the age of 60. They were, it is fair to say, an average representation of the male members of what was once called ‘the working class’."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/real-british-values

    says a toffee nosed twat
    I think men dress terribly these days.

    It's like they can't be bothered and don't care how they look.
    You notice the difference, when you go out for dinner in Madrid. I think that British men could make a lot more of an effort, but that's true of all classes.

    The Spectator article that's quoted is very shallow and superficial, however.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,337

    NEW THREAD

  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 798

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "An upper-middle-class former banker friend recently attended a Reform UK selection meeting for council candidates in a decaying southern coastal town. Although he is a man of the world who once worked on oil rigs and in a shoe shop, my banker friend professed himself ‘shocked’ by the standards of dress and deportment of the other would-be candidates. Naturally all were overweight and tattooed, and all were dressed in shorts, baseball caps and hooded tracksuit tops – the standard everyday uniform of most British men under the age of 60. They were, it is fair to say, an average representation of the male members of what was once called ‘the working class’."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/real-british-values

    says a toffee nosed twat
    I think men dress terribly these days.

    It's like they can't be bothered and don't care how they look.
    I agree. On holiday recently in the Canaries I noticed a lot of couples going into the diningroom in the evening where the woman was wearing a long dress and jewellery and the man was wearing shorts, T-shirt and baseball cap (plus they kept the cap on while dining).
  • isamisam Posts: 42,809
    edited 6:57AM

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "An upper-middle-class former banker friend recently attended a Reform UK selection meeting for council candidates in a decaying southern coastal town. Although he is a man of the world who once worked on oil rigs and in a shoe shop, my banker friend professed himself ‘shocked’ by the standards of dress and deportment of the other would-be candidates. Naturally all were overweight and tattooed, and all were dressed in shorts, baseball caps and hooded tracksuit tops – the standard everyday uniform of most British men under the age of 60. They were, it is fair to say, an average representation of the male members of what was once called ‘the working class’."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/real-british-values

    I find that really quite insulting of the Spectator to describe such slobs as typical of most British men under the age of 60.
    One of the quirks of the conservative psyche is fear of the mob, and an exaggerated gratitude for those who can mob-whisper.

    Farage may be an oik, but if he can keep the scary mob in line, more power to his elbow, eh?

    (It is one of the unresolved questions about Reform, though. Part of the party is Nigel, Zia and retired bankers. Part of the party is the sort of men sneered at in this article. Those two groups are only united in their hatred of centrist dads and foreigners. What happens when they notice that they hate each other almost as much? It may not happen before the next election, but it will happen.)
    I’d disagree that the two types of Reform voter caricatured here would necessarily hate each other. It reminds me of people who like betting; posh types up to and including the Queen and the kind of roll up smoking old boy from the pub who likes the dog track. This has been the make up of the punting crowd for centuries, and they rub along pretty well.

    You’re right that they don’t like the centrist, graduate types who go to Uni for three years, then cone back indoctrinated, telling their old friends how they’ve been getting everything wrong, but I’d say it’s not right that they ‘hate’ foreigners. Disliking the effects of mass immigration is not the same as hating foreigners
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,590

    Foxy said:

    I am beginning to look forward to the Robo-Apocalypse. Human society is done.

    The evidence? Kim Kardashians new range of synthetic public hair wigs are sold out.

    https://www.cnn.com/2025/10/15/style/kim-kardashian-skims-thong-pubic-scli-intl

    Although some hair should not be public, surely?
    I didn't spot the autocorrect, and yes I think there are very few occasions that pubic hair should be public!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,533

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    How them grocery prices going?

    And health insurance premiums?
    Those are the issues the Dems need to campaign on.

    And contrast the struggles of workers compared to the corruption of the Trump clan.

    Will they though ?

    Or will they yet again retreat to their middle class liberal support of unrestricted abortion, trans rights and illegal immigrants ?
    How th9se soybean sales doing?
    Why are you make silly comments rather than accept reality ?

    Now here's some reality that you might like to consider:

    When was the last time the Dems won more white votes than the GOP ?

    LBJ in 1964.

    But FDR did so in all four of his wins.

    And in congressional elections maybe at some point in the 1980s ?

    So why have the Dems failed repeatedly among the majority demographic when long ago they could win ?

    If I were them I might wonder why their interests and policies weren't in favour and that perhaps they might need changing.
    When was the last time the Reps won more women’s votes?

    So why have the Reps failed repeatedly among the majority demographic when long ago they could win ?

    If I were them I might wonder why their interests and policies weren't in favour and that perhaps they might need changing.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,197
    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "An upper-middle-class former banker friend recently attended a Reform UK selection meeting for council candidates in a decaying southern coastal town. Although he is a man of the world who once worked on oil rigs and in a shoe shop, my banker friend professed himself ‘shocked’ by the standards of dress and deportment of the other would-be candidates. Naturally all were overweight and tattooed, and all were dressed in shorts, baseball caps and hooded tracksuit tops – the standard everyday uniform of most British men under the age of 60. They were, it is fair to say, an average representation of the male members of what was once called ‘the working class’."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/real-british-values

    says a toffee nosed twat
    It's the Spectator, Malc. I think they put that on the job adverts.

  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,520

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    So the increase in pension age from 62 to 64 in France has now been put on hold in an effort to keep the government afloat .

    Macron burnt huge amounts of political capital and emboldened the far left and far right only to end up with the policy effectively delayed indefinitely.

    It seems now no future Presidential candidate can bring back this policy if they want to win . I’m sure Brits would love to retire at 64 and yet the reality of an aging population hasn’t broken through in France !

    The country is becoming ungovernable and it’s only the weight of the ECB that stops a financial meltdown.

    Delaying retirement polls poorly with young people. While younger workers are paying for it, they want to retire themselves in comfort. The same applies to the Triple Lock here.

    France is not unique with this. Britain exists in the same ungovernable state of cognitive dissonance.
    At least in the UK there is some understanding of the inevitability of retirement age increasing.

    Not so in France. 62 is a long way from the UK’s 67.
    Funny that France can afford to pay better state pensions than ours, however people want to fudge the extra couple of years. Something something boomers. Something something triple lock.
    They can't afford it. That's the issue.

    Their debt to GDP is already around 15% higher than ours (at 113%) and forecast to continue to climb higher at a pretty quick rate. Their unfunded pension liabilities are huge compared to ours, which makes things harder.

    I'm not claiming our debt position isn't incredibly poor. But it's not as bad as France's.

    Their saving grace is being underwritten by the much larger ECB.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,548
    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Kobeissi Letter
    @KobeissiLetter
    ·
    18m
    BREAKING: President Trump is considering sending National Guard troops to San Francisco as a part of his "crime crackdown."

    Too late. Leon's already left.

    The administration is out of control, and appears to be trying to foment rebellion.

    The Trump administration has frozen or cut $27 billion in funding in Democrat districts, compared to $739 million in Republican districts. There are open abuses of power occurring daily that would’ve been unthinkable under any other administration.
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1978458214397001835
    Rebellion means they can avoid an election or elections.

    They have no intention of ever relinquishing power.
    I think more a matter of fixing elections by voter suppression. The USA (unlike the UK) continues with elections even when at war, even in 1864 at the height of their own Civil War, albeit without votes from rebel states.
    Supreme Court will probably hand him the 2026 midterms anyway now via redistricting. So this rush towards martial law seems a little hasty.

    These are just excuses for the Dems being crap.

    How about they stop being the party of unrestricted abortion, trans obsessions and illegal immigration.

    And start focusing on economic and social issues that affect working class voters.


    How them grocery prices going?

    And health insurance premiums?
    Those are the issues the Dems need to campaign on.

    And contrast the struggles of workers compared to the corruption of the Trump clan.

    Will they though ?

    Or will they yet again retreat to their middle class liberal support of unrestricted abortion, trans rights and illegal immigrants ?
    How th9se soybean sales doing?
    Why are you make silly comments rather than accept reality ?

    Now here's some reality that you might like to consider:

    When was the last time the Dems won more white votes than the GOP ?

    LBJ in 1964.

    But FDR did so in all four of his wins.

    And in congressional elections maybe at some point in the 1980s ?

    So why have the Dems failed repeatedly among the majority demographic when long ago they could win ?

    If I were them I might wonder why their interests and policies weren't in favour and that perhaps they might need changing.
    Civil Rights Act of 1964.

    Are you suggesting that the Democrats reverse their position on segregation to win back the votes of white Americans?
    Carter in 1976, and Clinton in 1992 and 1996 were almost level with their opponents, among white voters. So, it's not a question of repealing the Civil Rights Act, but rather, trying to emulate Carter and Clinton.
    I think part of the Democrats problem at the moment is too much emphasis on micro-targeting of demographics, which comes across as insincere and patronising, rather than simply trying to appeal to voters in general, with a coherent and comprehensive approach.

    So I don't think that focusing on white voters will help.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,590
    SandraMc said:

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "An upper-middle-class former banker friend recently attended a Reform UK selection meeting for council candidates in a decaying southern coastal town. Although he is a man of the world who once worked on oil rigs and in a shoe shop, my banker friend professed himself ‘shocked’ by the standards of dress and deportment of the other would-be candidates. Naturally all were overweight and tattooed, and all were dressed in shorts, baseball caps and hooded tracksuit tops – the standard everyday uniform of most British men under the age of 60. They were, it is fair to say, an average representation of the male members of what was once called ‘the working class’."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/real-british-values

    says a toffee nosed twat
    I think men dress terribly these days.

    It's like they can't be bothered and don't care how they look.
    I agree. On holiday recently in the Canaries I noticed a lot of couples going into the diningroom in the evening where the woman was wearing a long dress and jewellery and the man was wearing shorts, T-shirt and baseball cap (plus they kept the cap on while dining).
    Yes, I agree. It is quite noticeable that young women tend to go for the Footballers wife look while their partners dress like the comic book store guy from the Simpsons.

    I like to dress well myself.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,572

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "An upper-middle-class former banker friend recently attended a Reform UK selection meeting for council candidates in a decaying southern coastal town. Although he is a man of the world who once worked on oil rigs and in a shoe shop, my banker friend professed himself ‘shocked’ by the standards of dress and deportment of the other would-be candidates. Naturally all were overweight and tattooed, and all were dressed in shorts, baseball caps and hooded tracksuit tops – the standard everyday uniform of most British men under the age of 60. They were, it is fair to say, an average representation of the male members of what was once called ‘the working class’."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/real-british-values

    says a toffee nosed twat
    I think men dress terribly these days.

    It's like they can't be bothered and don't care how they look.
    Tell me about it. Was at a rowing race the other day. One chap in the boat rolled his sleeves up above the elbow, undid two buttons on his waistcoat. And removed his monocle.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,890
    Foxy said:

    SandraMc said:

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "An upper-middle-class former banker friend recently attended a Reform UK selection meeting for council candidates in a decaying southern coastal town. Although he is a man of the world who once worked on oil rigs and in a shoe shop, my banker friend professed himself ‘shocked’ by the standards of dress and deportment of the other would-be candidates. Naturally all were overweight and tattooed, and all were dressed in shorts, baseball caps and hooded tracksuit tops – the standard everyday uniform of most British men under the age of 60. They were, it is fair to say, an average representation of the male members of what was once called ‘the working class’."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/real-british-values

    says a toffee nosed twat
    I think men dress terribly these days.

    It's like they can't be bothered and don't care how they look.
    I agree. On holiday recently in the Canaries I noticed a lot of couples going into the diningroom in the evening where the woman was wearing a long dress and jewellery and the man was wearing shorts, T-shirt and baseball cap (plus they kept the cap on while dining).
    Yes, I agree. It is quite noticeable that young women tend to go for the Footballers wife look while their partners dress like the comic book store guy from the Simpsons.

    I like to dress well myself.
    There’s a time and a place!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,304
    Leon said:

    Intriguing

    “Trump Considers Overhaul of Refugee System That Would Favor White People

    The proposals would transform a program aimed at helping the most vulnerable people in the world into one that gives preference to mostly white people who say they are being persecuted.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/15/us/politics/trump-refugee-white-people.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    Why is that intriguing?

    Race is precisely the wrong criteria to use.

    People fall into 2 (broad brush) categories:

    1) economic migrants who should be judged based on the net contribution they can make to the country they want to move to

    2) Asylum seekers with a legitimate claim where we should help those most in need

    3) There is a third category - which I suspect doesn’t really apply to America - where the country has a moral obligation to assist (eg HK Visas, East African Indians, etc)

    The best approach is the one Cameron adopted: set a number of refugees you are willing to accept and then go to the camps and select the people who need the assistance. Don’t just choose the ones who have the money / contacts / strength to make it to the UK
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,359
    To those who still believe in both making cuts and law order, this is what we are doing to save £7m, or £1 a year per Londoner:

    "London will be left with just two police stations with front counters operating 24 hours a day, as ten more are set to close under cost-cutting measures - breaking a pledge made by the Metropolitan Police and the mayor of London.

    The number of front counters where the public can speak to officers will drop from 37 to 27, and be staffed between10:00 to 22:00 on weekdays and 09:00 to 19:00 on weekends.

    Only Lewisham and Charing Cross - where ten officers are currently under investigation by the police watchdog - will remain open 24 hours.

    The Met said it would save £7m but some of its staff and victim support groups say it could leave some people at risk if they need face-to-face contact."
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,636

    Leon said:

    Intriguing

    “Trump Considers Overhaul of Refugee System That Would Favor White People

    The proposals would transform a program aimed at helping the most vulnerable people in the world into one that gives preference to mostly white people who say they are being persecuted.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/15/us/politics/trump-refugee-white-people.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    Why is that intriguing?

    Race is precisely the wrong criteria to use.

    People fall into 2 (broad brush) categories:

    1) economic migrants who should be judged based on the net contribution they can make to the country they want to move to

    2) Asylum seekers with a legitimate claim where we should help those most in need

    3) There is a third category - which I suspect doesn’t really apply to America - where the country has a moral obligation to assist (eg HK Visas, East African Indians, etc)

    The best approach is the one Cameron adopted: set a number of refugees you are willing to accept and then go to the camps and select the people who need the assistance. Don’t just choose the ones who have the money / contacts / strength to make it to the UK
    Very much agree with this. Not a great Cameron fan personally but this plan showed both compasion and common sense. Help those who need it, not those who are strong enough to travel on their own.
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