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Tory members do not want Badenoch to lead the party at the next election – politicalbetting.com

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  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,503

    Taz said:

    Green PPB. Very Corbynite. ‘Wealth tax now’ stuff.

    Advance: Combat 18
    Reform UK: National Front
    Tories: a smeared fly on a windscreen
    Labour - One Nation Conservatives
    LibDems - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Millibandite Labour
    YourParty - continuity Corbyn
    All of the above: let's spend more and/or cut taxes with money we don't have.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,197

    The Badenoch tale of sandwiches for the proles but something else for herself reminded me of the old apocryphal Thatcher joke, which I'm sure you all know but I'll repeat anyway.
    Thatcher was asked what food she would like to be served at a Cabinet meeting.
    Steak, she replied.
    And what about the vegetables? she was asked.
    They'll have the same as me, was the reply.

    It was a Spitting Image sketch, here in 10 seconds of grainy video:-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIaesrBeqgk
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,798

    eek said:

    A story I think TSE will appreciate....

    In recent weeks, stung by criticism that she
    was aloof from her MPs, Badenoch has
    begun inviting in small groups for lunch.
    Well, platters of shop-bought sandwiches.

    When I pointed out to one invitee that
    Badenoch famously declared last year that
    she hated sandwiches (in line with just 1%
    of the British public), they replied "oh no,
    the MPs had sandwiches, Kemi had
    something hot brought in".

    https://bsky.app/profile/michaeljsc.bsky.social/post/3m2jhne5dpc2h

    Reminds me of the time a guy who was going to America had a first class seat, but after booking he started a relationship, and took his new girlfriend on the trip but booked her in standard class on the same flight.

    Astonishingly the relationship didn't last long after that trip to America.
    Wasn’t there a story about Heath after a long evening with his team having a tasty late supper served to him but nothing for them?
    Unlikely as it seems perhaps Heath is the closest comparator to Kemi; prickly, humourless, bad at the talking human stuff. Ted of course did nevertheless manage to win elections..
    Mentioned in dispatches and commanded a firing squad aren't on Kemi's CV.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,313

    Sean_F said:

    eek said:

    A story I think TSE will appreciate....

    In recent weeks, stung by criticism that she
    was aloof from her MPs, Badenoch has
    begun inviting in small groups for lunch.
    Well, platters of shop-bought sandwiches.

    When I pointed out to one invitee that
    Badenoch famously declared last year that
    she hated sandwiches (in line with just 1%
    of the British public), they replied "oh no,
    the MPs had sandwiches, Kemi had
    something hot brought in".

    https://bsky.app/profile/michaeljsc.bsky.social/post/3m2jhne5dpc2h

    Reminds me of the time a guy who was going to America had a first class seat, but after booking he started a relationship, and took his new girlfriend on the trip but booked her in standard class on the same flight.

    Astonishingly the relationship didn't last long after that trip to America.
    Wasn’t there a story about Heath after a long evening with his team having a tasty late supper served to him but nothing for them?
    Unlikely as it seems perhaps Heath is the closest comparator to Kemi; prickly, humourless, bad at the talking human stuff. Ted of course did nevertheless manage to win elections..
    Yah.

    Keir Starmer may be lacking in man-management skills, but he’s not the worst PM in that department. The clear winner is Ted Heath, who was sulky to his enemies and inconsiderate to his allies. The former Tory chairman Chris Patten wrote speeches for Heath and tells the Rosebud podcast that he was once summoned on a Saturday morning to Heath’s hotel suite and made to wait for 90 minutes before a kimono-wearing leader let him in, without the offer of a cup of coffee.

    Heath’s housekeeper brought in a tray of Chablis, lobster and cheese. “Our eyes were out on stilts because we were absolutely starving,” Patten says. Heath suddenly asked the team if they’d had anything to eat and, when they said no, replied “Oh, you must be very hungry”. He then returned to his meal without a second thought. Patten found this particularly ironic as Heath was asking them to write about “care and compassion”.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ted-heath-hunger-games-mps-qmsnmrbqm
    Heath’s complete absence of interpersonal skills is an oddity, in a politician.
    It was weird, he could inspire real loyalty among some people yet was incredibly rude, I heard first hand how at a party he was seat with women on either side of them, for nearly three hours he just ignored them and spoke to the men at the table whilst not leaving his seat.

    Somebody said that he wasn't gay, just very badly damaged by the one lady that got away.
    I think he was just very shy and socially awkward
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,399

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    eek said:

    Foss said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    "The hundreds of billions of dollars companies are investing in AI now account for an astonishing 40 per cent share of US GDP growth this year... In a way, then, America has become one big bet on AI."

    https://www.ft.com/content/6cc87bd9-cb2f-4f82-99c5-c38748986a2e

    Along those lines, this is from today's NY Times:

    "A credible estimate suggests that A.I. capital expenditures may reach 2 percent of the gross domestic product in 2025, up from most likely less than 0.1 percent in 2022."

    It was going to be my factoid of the day.
    The problem is not the gross expenditure, as such. The big issue is the incestuous nature of the spend.

    Nvidia went up cos OpenAI ordered loads of cards. OpenAI went up cos they got another round of funding, from Nvidia...
    OpenAI's value just jumped as they've arranged to buy 10% of AMD at a penny a share.
    AMD's share price went up by 23% because of the number of GPUs OpenAI are buying from AMD

    But the problem is that OpenAI have committed to spending a trillion on chips & data centres for data centres that don't exist, requiring power that will take even longer to create and spending investors money that also doesn't seem to exist.

    Which wouldn't be so funny if I could see a product that people were actually buying in quantities to justify the investment (and they really won't).

    Meanwhile tomorrow I know I've got 3 AI generated solutions that are actually based on broken fundamentals - which means I'm going to waste hours explaining the flaws at a simple enough level that management will understand...
    I spent several hours this morning 'fixing' access to some servers for a remote developer in India. They put in a VPN ticket cos they said it wasn't working. It wasn't working cos they were trying to reach servers that were decommissioned 2 years ago. They also put in a firewall request to get to the 'right' servers from a terminal server. They put the wrong terminal server in that request.

    The question from my management today; "Can we automate this?"

    Ummm.......
    Automate closing tickets raised by India, with no action required?
    You know, there are some really good Indian developers. It's just that they tend to come to the US on H1(B) visas, leaving their less... less... ambitious colleragues back in Kerala or Bangalore.
    From my limited experience, and from what others have told me, Indian developers anywhere outside India are generally very good (*). Indian developers in India are ... less brilliant. This makes me wonder if it's a problem of culture in the Indian businesses. Those who can get out of that culture shine. Or only the great ones manage to get out...

    (*) And IME great people.
    I've worked with good Indian developers in India and in Britain and I've worked with bad Indian developers in India and in Britain. The only Indian developer I worked with who I saw shuffled off a project v. quick was in Britain on an IT visa.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,211
    edited 6:36PM
    Just watched the Tory Conference. The Shadow Chancellor made his speech in front of the tiniest audience I've ever seen at an event like this. Perhaps the Tory Party really is dead. Is that a good thing?

    I really don't know. I'd prefer them to Farage's mob but of the current Parties with their current leaders they wouldn't be in my top three.

    PS. I like Cleverley. He's quite witty.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,129
    So I can see that several PB Tories also now accept the party is dead.

    Anyone left? Please make sure you turn the CCHQ lights out when you leave...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,768

    Foss said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    "The hundreds of billions of dollars companies are investing in AI now account for an astonishing 40 per cent share of US GDP growth this year... In a way, then, America has become one big bet on AI."

    https://www.ft.com/content/6cc87bd9-cb2f-4f82-99c5-c38748986a2e

    Along those lines, this is from today's NY Times:

    "A credible estimate suggests that A.I. capital expenditures may reach 2 percent of the gross domestic product in 2025, up from most likely less than 0.1 percent in 2022."

    It was going to be my factoid of the day.
    The problem is not the gross expenditure, as such. The big issue is the incestuous nature of the spend.

    Nvidia went up cos OpenAI ordered loads of cards. OpenAI went up cos they got another round of funding, from Nvidia...
    OpenAI's value just jumped as they've arranged to buy 10% of AMD at a penny a share.
    My understanding of this deal is OpenAI has to buy significant amounts of AMD's AI accelerators, and gets the penny shares as a kind of reward when the purchases go through. For AMD getting OpenAI's endorsement is good news, they're seen as very much second-tier in AI hardware behind NVidia.

    But I have no idea how AMD is going to come up with a huge extra supply of AI chips. AMD fabs its chips at TSMC who are capacity constrained, and will be for some time to come. AMD already has to split its limited wafer allocation between CPUs, GPUs, chips for XBox and Playstation consoles, etc. AI GPUs are huge and require specialist packaging techniques and High Bandwidth Memory, which is also supply constrained right now.
    I thought AMD still used Global Foundries, which was itself an AMD spin out, for a significant proportion (40%?) of their manufacturing?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,313
    Bigger question is how Heath got elected as Conservative Party leader in the first place with social skills that poor
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,130

    MaxPB said:

    Madness.

    Conservative party will go in to the next election with a pledge to protect the triple lock (which would keep it in place until at least 2034), a spokesman says.

    State pension is exempted from the £47bn in spending cuts set out by Mel Stride in his conference speech just now.


    https://x.com/HugoGye/status/1975138781679452472

    I give up.
    Me too. There's no party for us now @Casino_Royale.
    Labour and Reform are both fiscally incontinent, so there's no prospect of me engaging there either, sadly.

    It will be a very detailed cock and balls at this rate.
    Get a postal vote, you look like a weirdo spending ages in the voting booth trying to draw a cock and balls.

    Reminder: Draw a flaccid cock otherwise an erect one could be mistaken as a clear preference for one of the candidates.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,130
    I am reminded I did the right thing by voting for Kemi last year.

    Robert Jenrick complained of ‘not seeing another white face’ in part of Birmingham

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/06/robert-jenrick-complained-of-not-seeing-another-white-face-in-handsworth-birmingham
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,109
    MaxPB said:

    Madness.

    Conservative party will go in to the next election with a pledge to protect the triple lock (which would keep it in place until at least 2034), a spokesman says.

    State pension is exempted from the £47bn in spending cuts set out by Mel Stride in his conference speech just now.


    https://x.com/HugoGye/status/1975138781679452472

    I give up.
    Me too. There's no party for us now @Casino_Royale.
    That's the problem. If it's not for you, and it's not for me, who is it for? And who is going for the wet right and non-psychotic dry right vote?

    Apart from the vanishing demographic who have fond memories of Nice Mr MacMillan?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,025

    Sean_F said:

    eek said:

    A story I think TSE will appreciate....

    In recent weeks, stung by criticism that she
    was aloof from her MPs, Badenoch has
    begun inviting in small groups for lunch.
    Well, platters of shop-bought sandwiches.

    When I pointed out to one invitee that
    Badenoch famously declared last year that
    she hated sandwiches (in line with just 1%
    of the British public), they replied "oh no,
    the MPs had sandwiches, Kemi had
    something hot brought in".

    https://bsky.app/profile/michaeljsc.bsky.social/post/3m2jhne5dpc2h

    Reminds me of the time a guy who was going to America had a first class seat, but after booking he started a relationship, and took his new girlfriend on the trip but booked her in standard class on the same flight.

    Astonishingly the relationship didn't last long after that trip to America.
    Wasn’t there a story about Heath after a long evening with his team having a tasty late supper served to him but nothing for them?
    Unlikely as it seems perhaps Heath is the closest comparator to Kemi; prickly, humourless, bad at the talking human stuff. Ted of course did nevertheless manage to win elections..
    Yah.

    Keir Starmer may be lacking in man-management skills, but he’s not the worst PM in that department. The clear winner is Ted Heath, who was sulky to his enemies and inconsiderate to his allies. The former Tory chairman Chris Patten wrote speeches for Heath and tells the Rosebud podcast that he was once summoned on a Saturday morning to Heath’s hotel suite and made to wait for 90 minutes before a kimono-wearing leader let him in, without the offer of a cup of coffee.

    Heath’s housekeeper brought in a tray of Chablis, lobster and cheese. “Our eyes were out on stilts because we were absolutely starving,” Patten says. Heath suddenly asked the team if they’d had anything to eat and, when they said no, replied “Oh, you must be very hungry”. He then returned to his meal without a second thought. Patten found this particularly ironic as Heath was asking them to write about “care and compassion”.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ted-heath-hunger-games-mps-qmsnmrbqm
    Heath’s complete absence of interpersonal skills is an oddity, in a politician.


    Somebody said that he wasn't gay, just very badly damaged by the one lady that got away.
    Bent as a 9 bob note I heard
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,554
    edited 6:38PM

    Advance - Never heard of them
    Reform - BNP
    Tories - BNP
    SKS Lab - BNP
    LDs - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Corbyn Party
    Your Party - Socially Conservative Corbyn Pary

    Oh no. BNP polling 67% then. Shame on this country.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,768
    Sean_F said:

    eek said:

    A story I think TSE will appreciate....

    In recent weeks, stung by criticism that she
    was aloof from her MPs, Badenoch has
    begun inviting in small groups for lunch.
    Well, platters of shop-bought sandwiches.

    When I pointed out to one invitee that
    Badenoch famously declared last year that
    she hated sandwiches (in line with just 1%
    of the British public), they replied "oh no,
    the MPs had sandwiches, Kemi had
    something hot brought in".

    https://bsky.app/profile/michaeljsc.bsky.social/post/3m2jhne5dpc2h

    Reminds me of the time a guy who was going to America had a first class seat, but after booking he started a relationship, and took his new girlfriend on the trip but booked her in standard class on the same flight.

    Astonishingly the relationship didn't last long after that trip to America.
    Wasn’t there a story about Heath after a long evening with his team having a tasty late supper served to him but nothing for them?
    Unlikely as it seems perhaps Heath is the closest comparator to Kemi; prickly, humourless, bad at the talking human stuff. Ted of course did nevertheless manage to win elections..
    Yah.

    Keir Starmer may be lacking in man-management skills, but he’s not the worst PM in that department. The clear winner is Ted Heath, who was sulky to his enemies and inconsiderate to his allies. The former Tory chairman Chris Patten wrote speeches for Heath and tells the Rosebud podcast that he was once summoned on a Saturday morning to Heath’s hotel suite and made to wait for 90 minutes before a kimono-wearing leader let him in, without the offer of a cup of coffee.

    Heath’s housekeeper brought in a tray of Chablis, lobster and cheese. “Our eyes were out on stilts because we were absolutely starving,” Patten says. Heath suddenly asked the team if they’d had anything to eat and, when they said no, replied “Oh, you must be very hungry”. He then returned to his meal without a second thought. Patten found this particularly ironic as Heath was asking them to write about “care and compassion”.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ted-heath-hunger-games-mps-qmsnmrbqm
    Heath’s complete absence of interpersonal skills is an oddity, in a politician.
    I've asked my housekeeper to bring in a plate of Chablis, lobster and cheese.

    I'll let you know what happens.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,038

    Sean_F said:

    eek said:

    A story I think TSE will appreciate....

    In recent weeks, stung by criticism that she
    was aloof from her MPs, Badenoch has
    begun inviting in small groups for lunch.
    Well, platters of shop-bought sandwiches.

    When I pointed out to one invitee that
    Badenoch famously declared last year that
    she hated sandwiches (in line with just 1%
    of the British public), they replied "oh no,
    the MPs had sandwiches, Kemi had
    something hot brought in".

    https://bsky.app/profile/michaeljsc.bsky.social/post/3m2jhne5dpc2h

    Reminds me of the time a guy who was going to America had a first class seat, but after booking he started a relationship, and took his new girlfriend on the trip but booked her in standard class on the same flight.

    Astonishingly the relationship didn't last long after that trip to America.
    Wasn’t there a story about Heath after a long evening with his team having a tasty late supper served to him but nothing for them?
    Unlikely as it seems perhaps Heath is the closest comparator to Kemi; prickly, humourless, bad at the talking human stuff. Ted of course did nevertheless manage to win elections..
    Yah.

    Keir Starmer may be lacking in man-management skills, but he’s not the worst PM in that department. The clear winner is Ted Heath, who was sulky to his enemies and inconsiderate to his allies. The former Tory chairman Chris Patten wrote speeches for Heath and tells the Rosebud podcast that he was once summoned on a Saturday morning to Heath’s hotel suite and made to wait for 90 minutes before a kimono-wearing leader let him in, without the offer of a cup of coffee.

    Heath’s housekeeper brought in a tray of Chablis, lobster and cheese. “Our eyes were out on stilts because we were absolutely starving,” Patten says. Heath suddenly asked the team if they’d had anything to eat and, when they said no, replied “Oh, you must be very hungry”. He then returned to his meal without a second thought. Patten found this particularly ironic as Heath was asking them to write about “care and compassion”.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ted-heath-hunger-games-mps-qmsnmrbqm
    Heath’s complete absence of interpersonal skills is an oddity, in a politician.
    It was weird, he could inspire real loyalty among some people yet was incredibly rude, I heard first hand how at a party he was seat with women on either side of them, for nearly three hours he just ignored them and spoke to the men at the table whilst not leaving his seat.

    Somebody said that he wasn't gay, just very badly damaged by the one lady that got away.
    I think in this day and age you are still allowed to be non-denominated when it comes to sexuality. That seems to have been the Heath picture.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,798
    rcs1000 said:

    Foss said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    "The hundreds of billions of dollars companies are investing in AI now account for an astonishing 40 per cent share of US GDP growth this year... In a way, then, America has become one big bet on AI."

    https://www.ft.com/content/6cc87bd9-cb2f-4f82-99c5-c38748986a2e

    Along those lines, this is from today's NY Times:

    "A credible estimate suggests that A.I. capital expenditures may reach 2 percent of the gross domestic product in 2025, up from most likely less than 0.1 percent in 2022."

    It was going to be my factoid of the day.
    The problem is not the gross expenditure, as such. The big issue is the incestuous nature of the spend.

    Nvidia went up cos OpenAI ordered loads of cards. OpenAI went up cos they got another round of funding, from Nvidia...
    OpenAI's value just jumped as they've arranged to buy 10% of AMD at a penny a share.
    My understanding of this deal is OpenAI has to buy significant amounts of AMD's AI accelerators, and gets the penny shares as a kind of reward when the purchases go through. For AMD getting OpenAI's endorsement is good news, they're seen as very much second-tier in AI hardware behind NVidia.

    But I have no idea how AMD is going to come up with a huge extra supply of AI chips. AMD fabs its chips at TSMC who are capacity constrained, and will be for some time to come. AMD already has to split its limited wafer allocation between CPUs, GPUs, chips for XBox and Playstation consoles, etc. AI GPUs are huge and require specialist packaging techniques and High Bandwidth Memory, which is also supply constrained right now.
    I thought AMD still used Global Foundries, which was itself an AMD spin out, for a significant proportion (40%?) of their manufacturing?
    Not for anything sub 7nm.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,798
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    eek said:

    A story I think TSE will appreciate....

    In recent weeks, stung by criticism that she
    was aloof from her MPs, Badenoch has
    begun inviting in small groups for lunch.
    Well, platters of shop-bought sandwiches.

    When I pointed out to one invitee that
    Badenoch famously declared last year that
    she hated sandwiches (in line with just 1%
    of the British public), they replied "oh no,
    the MPs had sandwiches, Kemi had
    something hot brought in".

    https://bsky.app/profile/michaeljsc.bsky.social/post/3m2jhne5dpc2h

    Reminds me of the time a guy who was going to America had a first class seat, but after booking he started a relationship, and took his new girlfriend on the trip but booked her in standard class on the same flight.

    Astonishingly the relationship didn't last long after that trip to America.
    Wasn’t there a story about Heath after a long evening with his team having a tasty late supper served to him but nothing for them?
    Unlikely as it seems perhaps Heath is the closest comparator to Kemi; prickly, humourless, bad at the talking human stuff. Ted of course did nevertheless manage to win elections..
    Yah.

    Keir Starmer may be lacking in man-management skills, but he’s not the worst PM in that department. The clear winner is Ted Heath, who was sulky to his enemies and inconsiderate to his allies. The former Tory chairman Chris Patten wrote speeches for Heath and tells the Rosebud podcast that he was once summoned on a Saturday morning to Heath’s hotel suite and made to wait for 90 minutes before a kimono-wearing leader let him in, without the offer of a cup of coffee.

    Heath’s housekeeper brought in a tray of Chablis, lobster and cheese. “Our eyes were out on stilts because we were absolutely starving,” Patten says. Heath suddenly asked the team if they’d had anything to eat and, when they said no, replied “Oh, you must be very hungry”. He then returned to his meal without a second thought. Patten found this particularly ironic as Heath was asking them to write about “care and compassion”.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ted-heath-hunger-games-mps-qmsnmrbqm
    Heath’s complete absence of interpersonal skills is an oddity, in a politician.
    I've asked my housekeeper to bring in a plate of Chablis, lobster and cheese.

    I'll let you know what happens.
    Comments on your lack of interpersonal skills ?
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,503

    I am reminded I did the right thing by voting for Kemi last year.

    Robert Jenrick complained of ‘not seeing another white face’ in part of Birmingham

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/06/robert-jenrick-complained-of-not-seeing-another-white-face-in-handsworth-birmingham

    With Jenrick leading the Tories, the policy differences between them and Reform would be smaller than the policy differences between Starmer 2025 and Starmer 2020.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,068
    Sean_F said:

    eek said:

    A story I think TSE will appreciate....

    In recent weeks, stung by criticism that she
    was aloof from her MPs, Badenoch has
    begun inviting in small groups for lunch.
    Well, platters of shop-bought sandwiches.

    When I pointed out to one invitee that
    Badenoch famously declared last year that
    she hated sandwiches (in line with just 1%
    of the British public), they replied "oh no,
    the MPs had sandwiches, Kemi had
    something hot brought in".

    https://bsky.app/profile/michaeljsc.bsky.social/post/3m2jhne5dpc2h

    Reminds me of the time a guy who was going to America had a first class seat, but after booking he started a relationship, and took his new girlfriend on the trip but booked her in standard class on the same flight.

    Astonishingly the relationship didn't last long after that trip to America.
    Wasn’t there a story about Heath after a long evening with his team having a tasty late supper served to him but nothing for them?
    Unlikely as it seems perhaps Heath is the closest comparator to Kemi; prickly, humourless, bad at the talking human stuff. Ted of course did nevertheless manage to win elections..
    Yah.

    Keir Starmer may be lacking in man-management skills, but he’s not the worst PM in that department. The clear winner is Ted Heath, who was sulky to his enemies and inconsiderate to his allies. The former Tory chairman Chris Patten wrote speeches for Heath and tells the Rosebud podcast that he was once summoned on a Saturday morning to Heath’s hotel suite and made to wait for 90 minutes before a kimono-wearing leader let him in, without the offer of a cup of coffee.

    Heath’s housekeeper brought in a tray of Chablis, lobster and cheese. “Our eyes were out on stilts because we were absolutely starving,” Patten says. Heath suddenly asked the team if they’d had anything to eat and, when they said no, replied “Oh, you must be very hungry”. He then returned to his meal without a second thought. Patten found this particularly ironic as Heath was asking them to write about “care and compassion”.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ted-heath-hunger-games-mps-qmsnmrbqm
    Heath’s complete absence of interpersonal skills is an oddity, in a politician.
    An oddity, perhaps, but it was an oddity shared by the Conservative people of the place where I grew up. It's why I developed my life-long allergy to Conservatives & Conservatism.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,025

    Advance: Combat 18
    Reform UK: National Front
    Tories: a smeared fly on a windscreen
    Labour - One Nation Conservatives
    LibDems - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Millibandite Labour
    YourParty - continuity Corbyn

    Advance - Never heard of them
    Reform - BNP
    Tories - BNP
    SKS Lab - BNP
    LDs - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Corbyn Party
    Your Party - Socially Conservative Corbyn Pary

    By Socially Conservative do you mean Support Sharia Law?
    Anti trans, anti gay marriage apparently.
    They should link up with Reform.
    Badly advised to try and compromise with the Gaza Independents social views imo.

    I am sticking with Zack

    Anyone who doesn't vote Green, the only party led by a gay Jewish man is by definition both homophonic and anti semitic I am told
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,130

    Bigger question is how Heath got elected as Conservative Party leader in the first place with social skills that poor

    Former Chief Whip, he knew where all the bodies were buried, he was Chief Whip whilst Bob Boothby was shagging, inter alia, Ronnie Kray.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,184
    I don't know if I missed all the chat on it earlier whilst I was at work, but: what's Macron's next move?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,826
    About to drive to the winelands of Santa Ynez

    Nipped into a supermarket for a quick cheap sandwich and coffee brunch

    $29

    America is now more expensive than Norway
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,523
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    eek said:

    A story I think TSE will appreciate....

    In recent weeks, stung by criticism that she
    was aloof from her MPs, Badenoch has
    begun inviting in small groups for lunch.
    Well, platters of shop-bought sandwiches.

    When I pointed out to one invitee that
    Badenoch famously declared last year that
    she hated sandwiches (in line with just 1%
    of the British public), they replied "oh no,
    the MPs had sandwiches, Kemi had
    something hot brought in".

    https://bsky.app/profile/michaeljsc.bsky.social/post/3m2jhne5dpc2h

    Reminds me of the time a guy who was going to America had a first class seat, but after booking he started a relationship, and took his new girlfriend on the trip but booked her in standard class on the same flight.

    Astonishingly the relationship didn't last long after that trip to America.
    Wasn’t there a story about Heath after a long evening with his team having a tasty late supper served to him but nothing for them?
    Unlikely as it seems perhaps Heath is the closest comparator to Kemi; prickly, humourless, bad at the talking human stuff. Ted of course did nevertheless manage to win elections..
    Yah.

    Keir Starmer may be lacking in man-management skills, but he’s not the worst PM in that department. The clear winner is Ted Heath, who was sulky to his enemies and inconsiderate to his allies. The former Tory chairman Chris Patten wrote speeches for Heath and tells the Rosebud podcast that he was once summoned on a Saturday morning to Heath’s hotel suite and made to wait for 90 minutes before a kimono-wearing leader let him in, without the offer of a cup of coffee.

    Heath’s housekeeper brought in a tray of Chablis, lobster and cheese. “Our eyes were out on stilts because we were absolutely starving,” Patten says. Heath suddenly asked the team if they’d had anything to eat and, when they said no, replied “Oh, you must be very hungry”. He then returned to his meal without a second thought. Patten found this particularly ironic as Heath was asking them to write about “care and compassion”.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ted-heath-hunger-games-mps-qmsnmrbqm
    Heath’s complete absence of interpersonal skills is an oddity, in a politician.
    I've asked my housekeeper to bring in a plate of Chablis, lobster and cheese.

    I'll let you know what happens.
    You want your chablis on a plate? Weird.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,025
    kinabalu said:

    Advance - Never heard of them
    Reform - BNP
    Tories - BNP
    SKS Lab - BNP
    LDs - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Corbyn Party
    Your Party - Socially Conservative Corbyn Pary

    Oh no. BNP polling 67% then. Shame on this country.
    Only cos their not prompting for the anti puff lefties!!
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,905

    Bigger question is how Heath got elected as Conservative Party leader in the first place with social skills that poor

    Former Chief Whip, he knew where all the bodies were buried, he was Chief Whip whilst Bob Boothby was shagging, inter alia, Ronnie Kray.
    Also Heath wasn't elected, he was selected.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,547

    I am reminded I did the right thing by voting for Kemi last year.

    Robert Jenrick complained of ‘not seeing another white face’ in part of Birmingham

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/06/robert-jenrick-complained-of-not-seeing-another-white-face-in-handsworth-birmingham

    So does he blame the white folk who left the area?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,786
    My earliest political memory was a hand written poster during the 3 day week.
    "Vote for Ted. Four days in bed."
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,675

    Advance: Combat 18
    Reform UK: National Front
    Tories: a smeared fly on a windscreen
    Labour - One Nation Conservatives
    LibDems - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Millibandite Labour
    YourParty - continuity Corbyn

    Advance - Never heard of them
    Reform - BNP
    Tories - BNP
    SKS Lab - BNP
    LDs - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Corbyn Party
    Your Party - Socially Conservative Corbyn Pary

    By Socially Conservative do you mean Support Sharia Law?
    Anti trans, anti gay marriage apparently.
    They should link up with Reform.
    Badly advised to try and compromise with the Gaza Independents social views imo.

    I am sticking with Zack

    Anyone who doesn't vote Green, the only party led by a gay Jewish man is by definition both homophonic and anti semitic I am told
    If true, what a stupid muppet Corbyn is. He had a large following, and lots of people on the left who were willing to follow him. Large numbers of those will be repelled by his party being anti-trans and anti-gay marriage.

    It would also show the guy has no values.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,905

    Bigger question is how Heath got elected as Conservative Party leader in the first place with social skills that poor

    Former Chief Whip, he knew where all the bodies were buried, he was Chief Whip whilst Bob Boothby was shagging, inter alia, Ronnie Kray.
    Also Heath wasn't elected, he was selected.
    Many apologies, he was elected. My mistake. It was the previous one who was selected.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,826
    Ah. Maybe a schoolboy error here

    The supermarket I dashed into is Erewhon
    .
    “Erewhon is often called the most expensive grocery store in America, positioning wellness and clean eating as a luxury and status symbol. Patronised by celebrities and influencers….”

    I just did the equivalent of nipping into the Connaught for a cuppa

    lol
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,764

    Advance: Combat 18
    Reform UK: National Front
    Tories: a smeared fly on a windscreen
    Labour - One Nation Conservatives
    LibDems - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Millibandite Labour
    YourParty - continuity Corbyn

    Advance - Never heard of them
    Reform - BNP
    Tories - BNP
    SKS Lab - BNP
    LDs - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Corbyn Party
    Your Party - Socially Conservative Corbyn Pary

    By Socially Conservative do you mean Support Sharia Law?
    Anti trans, anti gay marriage apparently.
    They should link up with Reform.
    Badly advised to try and compromise with the Gaza Independents social views imo.

    I am sticking with Zack

    Anyone who doesn't vote Green, the only party led by a gay Jewish man is by definition both homophonic and anti semitic I am told
    What do they sound the same as?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,211

    I am reminded I did the right thing by voting for Kemi last year.

    Robert Jenrick complained of ‘not seeing another white face’ in part of Birmingham

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/06/robert-jenrick-complained-of-not-seeing-another-white-face-in-handsworth-birmingham

    Colour seems to be a big thing on the right. We've even had posters suggesting the need for more white babies
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,242
    RobD said:

    Madness.

    Conservative party will go in to the next election with a pledge to protect the triple lock (which would keep it in place until at least 2034), a spokesman says.

    State pension is exempted from the £47bn in spending cuts set out by Mel Stride in his conference speech just now.


    https://x.com/HugoGye/status/1975138781679452472

    I give up.
    Without wishing to defend Mel Pillock, it is completely impossible politically to ditch the triple lock. Eliminating NI, raising income tax, and therefore bringing pensions within the scope of taxable income is a milder way of redressing the balance.
    Yes, at the bottom end the pension is a pittance, so up-rating it is good. What's needed is to claw it back more effectively at the top end.
    Yes, a lower threshold to the 40% tax band for pensioners , for example.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,025

    Advance: Combat 18
    Reform UK: National Front
    Tories: a smeared fly on a windscreen
    Labour - One Nation Conservatives
    LibDems - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Millibandite Labour
    YourParty - continuity Corbyn

    Advance - Never heard of them
    Reform - BNP
    Tories - BNP
    SKS Lab - BNP
    LDs - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Corbyn Party
    Your Party - Socially Conservative Corbyn Pary

    By Socially Conservative do you mean Support Sharia Law?
    Anti trans, anti gay marriage apparently.
    They should link up with Reform.
    Badly advised to try and compromise with the Gaza Independents social views imo.

    I am sticking with Zack

    Anyone who doesn't vote Green, the only party led by a gay Jewish man is by definition both homophonic and anti semitic I am told
    If true, what a stupid muppet Corbyn is. He had a large following, and lots of people on the left who were willing to follow him. Large numbers of those will be repelled by his party being anti-trans and anti-gay marriage.

    It would also show the guy has no values.
    Agreed
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,589
    edited 6:48PM

    Bigger question is how Heath got elected as Conservative Party leader in the first place with social skills that poor

    Former Chief Whip, he knew where all the bodies were buried, he was Chief Whip whilst Bob Boothby was shagging, inter alia, Ronnie Kray.
    He was also relatively heavyweight and Powell split the right of the party vote with Maudling enabling Heath to win with the united One Nation
    centrist wing of the party behind him.

    Of course there was the rumour Heath himself used to go cottaging of an evening after a late night vote but stopped after he himself was given a warning by the Whips
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,130

    Bigger question is how Heath got elected as Conservative Party leader in the first place with social skills that poor

    Former Chief Whip, he knew where all the bodies were buried, he was Chief Whip whilst Bob Boothby was shagging, inter alia, Ronnie Kray.
    Also Heath wasn't elected, he was selected.
    No, Heath was elected by Tory MPs, he defeated Reggie Maudling and Enoch Powell.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,313
    Jacob Rees-Mogg today sounds awfully like Edward Heath, then.

    And the chablis and lobster brought by the valet fits both too.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,589
    Ratters said:

    I am reminded I did the right thing by voting for Kemi last year.

    Robert Jenrick complained of ‘not seeing another white face’ in part of Birmingham

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/06/robert-jenrick-complained-of-not-seeing-another-white-face-in-handsworth-birmingham

    With Jenrick leading the Tories, the policy differences between them and Reform would be smaller than the policy differences between Starmer 2025 and Starmer 2020.
    Based on the evidence so far Jenrick would try and outflank Farage, from the right
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,025
    dixiedean said:

    My earliest political memory was a hand written poster during the 3 day week.
    "Vote for Ted. Four days in bed."

    Jeremy Thorpe had bed trouble too.

    Edible pillows are not for everyone
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,589

    I don't know if I missed all the chat on it earlier whilst I was at work, but: what's Macron's next move?

    Socialist PM is his only real option now other than elections likely leading to further deadlock
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,523

    Advance: Combat 18
    Reform UK: National Front
    Tories: a smeared fly on a windscreen
    Labour - One Nation Conservatives
    LibDems - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Millibandite Labour
    YourParty - continuity Corbyn

    Advance - Never heard of them
    Reform - BNP
    Tories - BNP
    SKS Lab - BNP
    LDs - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Corbyn Party
    Your Party - Socially Conservative Corbyn Pary

    Genuinely excited by the Polanski Greens. Some umph into our politics again. Some of what he is saying is bonkers, but its Bonkers with Feeling, which is better than numb bonkers as we get from Starmer & Badenoch
    Oh feck no. We simply do not have the capacity to cope with yet more self indulgent twaddle. Where the hell are the adults?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,130

    Bigger question is how Heath got elected as Conservative Party leader in the first place with social skills that poor

    Former Chief Whip, he knew where all the bodies were buried, he was Chief Whip whilst Bob Boothby was shagging, inter alia, Ronnie Kray.
    Also Heath wasn't elected, he was selected.
    Many apologies, he was elected. My mistake. It was the previous one who was selected.
    Bring back the magic circle.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,503

    Advance: Combat 18
    Reform UK: National Front
    Tories: a smeared fly on a windscreen
    Labour - One Nation Conservatives
    LibDems - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Millibandite Labour
    YourParty - continuity Corbyn

    Advance - Never heard of them
    Reform - BNP
    Tories - BNP
    SKS Lab - BNP
    LDs - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Corbyn Party
    Your Party - Socially Conservative Corbyn Pary

    By Socially Conservative do you mean Support Sharia Law?
    Anti trans, anti gay marriage apparently.
    They should link up with Reform.
    Badly advised to try and compromise with the Gaza Independents social views imo.

    I am sticking with Zack

    Anyone who doesn't vote Green, the only party led by a gay Jewish man is by definition both homophonic and anti semitic I am told
    I can't decide if Zack making much more clear what the Green's policy platform is (essentially, Corbyn-esque socialism with strong views on Gaxa) will help or hinder them.

    On one side, some of their polling gains will be in the "none of the above" category, who like the sound of a green party.

    On the other side, as Corbyn himself showed in 2017, there is a sizeable electorate willing to vote left.

    I suspect they go up in the polls. Perhaps overtaking the Tories before long...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,025
    Roger said:

    I am reminded I did the right thing by voting for Kemi last year.

    Robert Jenrick complained of ‘not seeing another white face’ in part of Birmingham

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/06/robert-jenrick-complained-of-not-seeing-another-white-face-in-handsworth-birmingham

    Colour seems to be a big thing on the right. We've even had posters suggesting the need for more white babies
    TBF Lab/ Tory and Reform will all be sending TSE and Sunil "home" by 2029!!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,130

    Roger said:

    I am reminded I did the right thing by voting for Kemi last year.

    Robert Jenrick complained of ‘not seeing another white face’ in part of Birmingham

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/06/robert-jenrick-complained-of-not-seeing-another-white-face-in-handsworth-birmingham

    Colour seems to be a big thing on the right. We've even had posters suggesting the need for more white babies
    TBF Lab/ Tory and Reform will all be sending TSE and Sunil "home" by 2029!!
    Fine by me, I was born in Britain.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,291

    I am reminded I did the right thing by voting for Kemi last year.

    Robert Jenrick complained of ‘not seeing another white face’ in part of Birmingham

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/06/robert-jenrick-complained-of-not-seeing-another-white-face-in-handsworth-birmingham

    Not seeing a white face in Handsworth.

    Well I’m stunned !!

    Handsworths ethnic mix is hardly a new phenomenon.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,253
    edited 6:56PM
    Leon said:

    About to drive to the winelands of Santa Ynez

    Nipped into a supermarket for a quick cheap sandwich and coffee brunch

    $29

    America is now more expensive than Norway

    I drove around the vineyards there a few years ago. Michael Jackson and Ronald Reagan had their ranches out that way. Proper high chaparral country.

    I recall my favourite winemaker was Rancho Sisquoc. Excellent Rhone style whites. Huge branded glasses, one of which I still use at home, and at the time it wasn’t overly commercialised (probably is by now). I liked the name too.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,399
    Evening all :)

    To those who would like the Triple Lock to be ended (and I'm not unsympathetic to it as an idea), how would you sell the policy politically?

    Many people, when they're not voting against a party, vote on the basis of motivated self-interest. They tend not to vote for parties which they think will make them if not poorer then less well off.

    A Margaret Thatcher would go out and make the argument at every opportunity and try to persuade the electorate she was right - she didn't always succeed.

    One option might be to say to pensioners - we will continue to keep the basic pension below the personal allowance but you must accept annual rises below the rate of inflation in return.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,025
    edited 6:56PM


    I think when the Your Party is prompted Greens plus them will be in 2nd
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,798

    Bigger question is how Heath got elected as Conservative Party leader in the first place with social skills that poor

    Former Chief Whip, he knew where all the bodies were buried, he was Chief Whip whilst Bob Boothby was shagging, inter alia, Ronnie Kray.
    Also Heath wasn't elected, he was selected.
    Many apologies, he was elected. My mistake. It was the previous one who was selected.
    Considering the opposition, though, and the fact that it was the first such ballot, it wasn't astonishing..

    ...150 votes to Reginald Maudling's 133 and Enoch Powell's 15...

    Maudling was a "wingless wonder" in WWII, and helped cock up the negotiations to join the European Community.

    Powell was ... Powell.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,834
    ...

    Jacob Rees-Mogg today sounds awfully like Edward Heath, then.

    And the chablis and lobster brought by the valet fits both too.

    Jacob Rees Mogg is an engaging and unfailingly polite speaker - most recently seen politely taking on all comers at the Labour Party Conference. He doesn't deserve to be compared to a shit like Heath.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,357

    I am reminded I did the right thing by voting for Kemi last year.

    Robert Jenrick complained of ‘not seeing another white face’ in part of Birmingham

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/06/robert-jenrick-complained-of-not-seeing-another-white-face-in-handsworth-birmingham

    He can find some here:

    https://www.handsworth.bham.sch.uk/

    Or here:

    https://kingedwardvi.bham.sch.uk/

    Bussed in, mind you.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,821

    So I can see that several PB Tories also now accept the party is dead.

    Anyone left? Please make sure you turn the CCHQ lights out when you leave...

    And yet, and yet. Where there are party political orphans, there is a gap in the market.

    The Tory question isn't centre or right, that's peripheral, the question is sane or insane.

    Whether you are wet or dry, be serious about how you are going to make it work and the compromises needed, and accept that quite a lot of the last 14 years was a departure from that. The bit I saw of Stride's speech was trying to be that, but came across as ham Shakespearean actor, or maybe Frankie Howard, going "ooooo is this fiscal responsibility I see before me".

    There is no Ming vase option for the Tories, they need to get serious. No, I don't see that from Jenrick either.

    I've been saying this since GE24, they had their odd moments, but ultimately Meloni outflanked Salvini, yes, because of the different electoral circumstances, but also because it came with a dose of sanity. She outflanked just very slightly on the left.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,129
    That chocolate bar. Understand the process:
    1) Ideation - lets hand out Cadbury bars with a slogan on the wrapper
    2) Design - a template is made and slogans written
    3) Approval - someone signs off the file to print
    4) Creation - printer receives the file, pisses himself, fulfils the contract. Box(es) of labels sent to CCHQ
    5) Wrappers are removed from Cadbury bars and the new wrapper is applied and glued
    6) Slogan chocs packed into boxes
    7) Boxes unpacked and the contents put into goody bags for delegates and hacks

    At multiple points people had eyeballs on the wrapper. Design, approval, wrapping, distribution

    So either: it's deliberate mendacious wrecking. Or the party is grotesquely monumentally stupid.

    Even at the last minute once they started bing handed out surely someone would notice not spelt gud and pull them back.

    How the hell did this happen?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,589

    Jacob Rees-Mogg today sounds awfully like Edward Heath, then.

    And the chablis and lobster brought by the valet fits both too.

    Rees Mogg is posher though and with more charm, as well as much more rightwing.

    Perhaps we should arrange a PB outing to Heath's grand house and museum, to himself, in Salisbury cathedral close
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,025

    Roger said:

    I am reminded I did the right thing by voting for Kemi last year.

    Robert Jenrick complained of ‘not seeing another white face’ in part of Birmingham

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/06/robert-jenrick-complained-of-not-seeing-another-white-face-in-handsworth-birmingham

    Colour seems to be a big thing on the right. We've even had posters suggesting the need for more white babies
    TBF Lab/ Tory and Reform will all be sending TSE and Sunil "home" by 2029!!
    Fine by me, I was born in Britain.
    Yeah but they mean "home" as in somewhere Brown not your actual home.

    Don't worry me and Zack will have your back
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,399

    Bigger question is how Heath got elected as Conservative Party leader in the first place with social skills that poor

    I assume it's because the alternative was seen as worse in ideological terms, and/or he was seen as the protégé of a senior, still influential, figure.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,187
    HYUFD said:

    Bigger question is how Heath got elected as Conservative Party leader in the first place with social skills that poor

    Former Chief Whip, he knew where all the bodies were buried, he was Chief Whip whilst Bob Boothby was shagging, inter alia, Ronnie Kray.
    He was also relatively heavyweight and Powell split the right of the party vote with Maudling enabling Heath to win with the united One Nation
    centrist wing of the party behind him.

    Of course there was the rumour Heath himself used to go cottaging of an evening after a late night vote but stopped after he himself was given a warning by the Whips
    I had thought that Heath was seen as more right-wing than Maudling at the time of the leadership election. Seems a bit hard to believe in the light of subsequent events. But then John Major was also seen as the rightwing alternative to Hezza and Hurd at the time of Mrs T's defenestration- and now he's Mr Moderate compared to his successors.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,157
    Andy_JS said:

    "Welsh Labour has removed a social media post linking Reform UK’s Caerphilly Senedd by-election candidate Llŷr Powell to Vladimir Putin, after Nigel Farage’s party threatened legal action."

    https://caerphilly.observer/news/1053766/labour-reform-legal-row-caerphilly-by-election

    That sounds like a version of the Kevin Bacon game…
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,038

    Andy_JS said:

    "Welsh Labour has removed a social media post linking Reform UK’s Caerphilly Senedd by-election candidate Llŷr Powell to Vladimir Putin, after Nigel Farage’s party threatened legal action."

    https://caerphilly.observer/news/1053766/labour-reform-legal-row-caerphilly-by-election

    That sounds like a version of the Kevin Bacon game…
    Do you possibly mean the Bacon numbers? As the finest achievement in recent years as to culture that's worth having the Bacon numbers are sacrosanct.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,768
    Leon said:

    Ah. Maybe a schoolboy error here

    The supermarket I dashed into is Erewhon
    .
    “Erewhon is often called the most expensive grocery store in America, positioning wellness and clean eating as a luxury and status symbol. Patronised by celebrities and influencers….”

    I just did the equivalent of nipping into the Connaught for a cuppa

    lol

    The joke is that Whole Foods is 'Whole Wallet', while Erewhon is more like 'Whole Paycheck'.

    On the other hand, were I ever to need to start dating again, I'd skip the apps and go to the fresh produce section of Erewhon.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,068
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    To those who would like the Triple Lock to be ended (and I'm not unsympathetic to it as an idea), how would you sell the policy politically?

    Many people, when they're not voting against a party, vote on the basis of motivated self-interest. They tend not to vote for parties which they think will make them if not poorer then less well off.

    A Margaret Thatcher would go out and make the argument at every opportunity and try to persuade the electorate she was right - she didn't always succeed.

    One option might be to say to pensioners - we will continue to keep the basic pension below the personal allowance but you must accept annual rises below the rate of inflation in return.

    Not straightforward, it needs a lot of repetition of major themes. Among them:-
    - Identifying the three strands of the triple lock and showing how pensions would have fared under each one of them alone.
    - Comparative figures showing the poverty the triple lock was intended to address and demonstrating that the poverty had been addressed.
    - Comparative figures showing the income of full time workers on the minimum wage vs pensioners on the smallest basic pension vs pensioners on full state pension.
    - Acknowledging that people on the smallest state pensions are still in poverty, but so are full time workers on minimum wage.

    That sort of thing.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,038
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Ah. Maybe a schoolboy error here

    The supermarket I dashed into is Erewhon
    .
    “Erewhon is often called the most expensive grocery store in America, positioning wellness and clean eating as a luxury and status symbol. Patronised by celebrities and influencers….”

    I just did the equivalent of nipping into the Connaught for a cuppa

    lol

    The joke is that Whole Foods is 'Whole Wallet', while Erewhon is more like 'Whole Paycheck'.

    On the other hand, were I ever to need to start dating again, I'd skip the apps and go to the fresh produce section of Erewhon.
    Bloody hell that's fresh
  • rcs1000 said:

    I thought AMD still used Global Foundries, which was itself an AMD spin out, for a significant proportion (40%?) of their manufacturing?

    That's long in the past. Global Foundries didn't have the money to compete with TSMC in the process development race, so they abandoned any attempt to keep up and just quietly produce chips on older nodes now. It's a profitable business, but not much use to AMD who are always looking to use the most advanced node. Which today means using TSMC.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,523
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Ah. Maybe a schoolboy error here

    The supermarket I dashed into is Erewhon
    .
    “Erewhon is often called the most expensive grocery store in America, positioning wellness and clean eating as a luxury and status symbol. Patronised by celebrities and influencers….”

    I just did the equivalent of nipping into the Connaught for a cuppa

    lol

    The joke is that Whole Foods is 'Whole Wallet', while Erewhon is more like 'Whole Paycheck'.

    On the other hand, were I ever to need to start dating again, I'd skip the apps and go to the fresh produce section of Erewhon.
    This so reminds me of General Technics in Stand on Zanzibar with their supposedly "healthy" foods that are in fact corrupted under the pressures of over population. What a book that was. Absolutely visionary. Written in 1969 but anticipating the corporate super giants of today, the relative weakness of nation states, the stresses caused by over population and the climate crises that it produces. Brunner was a genius.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,416

    MaxPB said:

    Madness.

    Conservative party will go in to the next election with a pledge to protect the triple lock (which would keep it in place until at least 2034), a spokesman says.

    State pension is exempted from the £47bn in spending cuts set out by Mel Stride in his conference speech just now.


    https://x.com/HugoGye/status/1975138781679452472

    I give up.
    Me too. There's no party for us now @Casino_Royale.
    Labour and Reform are both fiscally incontinent, so there's no prospect of me engaging there either, sadly.

    It will be a very detailed cock and balls at this rate.
    Get a postal vote, you look like a weirdo spending ages in the voting booth trying to draw a cock and balls.

    Reminder: Draw a flaccid cock otherwise an erect one could be mistaken as a clear preference for one of the candidates.
    https://x.com/AynRandPaulRyan/status/874822692838309888
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,399

    That chocolate bar. Understand the process:
    1) Ideation - lets hand out Cadbury bars with a slogan on the wrapper
    2) Design - a template is made and slogans written
    3) Approval - someone signs off the file to print
    4) Creation - printer receives the file, pisses himself, fulfils the contract. Box(es) of labels sent to CCHQ
    5) Wrappers are removed from Cadbury bars and the new wrapper is applied and glued
    6) Slogan chocs packed into boxes
    7) Boxes unpacked and the contents put into goody bags for delegates and hacks

    At multiple points people had eyeballs on the wrapper. Design, approval, wrapping, distribution

    So either: it's deliberate mendacious wrecking. Or the party is grotesquely monumentally stupid.

    Even at the last minute once they started bing handed out surely someone would notice not spelt gud and pull them back.

    How the hell did this happen?

    First thing worth noting is that spelling mistakes can be surprisingly hard to notice, particularly if you're focusing on other aspects, like choice of font, etc.

    That said, I think it's an example of a modern British malaise whereby junior staff are not encouraged and empowered to correct mistakes - they've not been delegated the authority. The senior people are too busy trying to run everything to answer your question about the spelling. Maybe it's deliberate? A pun you can't spot?

    You're so scared of getting in trouble for changing it that you daren't do so, and you just send it on as is.

    The end result is that the senior person thinks that everyone junior to them is too stupid to spot a spelling mistake, and so doesn't trust them to do anything. Making the situation worse.

    It's like with those cakes where someone ices on the literal text, "Owen with a smiley face in the O". People are just doing exactly what they're told, because they've learned they get in trouble if they try to use their judgement.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,041
    Green Party PPB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxt4HCjd7VA (4mins)

    AI summary via https://ahrefs.com/writing-tools/summarizer
    The speaker reflects on a past sense of hope experienced during their childhood in the north, contrasting it with the current atmosphere of hopelessness prevalent in society. Over the past five years, they have engaged with individuals across the country, noting a pervasive fatigue and despair among people, particularly parents and children facing hunger and insecurity.

    In response to concerns about economic inequality, the speaker advocates for a fair taxation system that targets the wealthiest individuals rather than ordinary workers, such as plumbers and small business owners. They emphasize the stark disparity in wealth accumulation, where some individuals can significantly increase their wealth overnight without effort, highlighting the obscenity of such inequality.

    The speaker proposes a 1% wealth tax on the super-rich as a means to address these issues, arguing that it would help fund essential services like healthcare and childcare, ultimately benefiting society as a whole. They challenge the notion that taxing the wealthy would drive them away, pointing out that billionaire wealth has surged during the pandemic while many struggle to meet basic needs.

    The speaker calls for collective action to restore hope and equity, urging the audience to join in the effort to create a more just society.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,503
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    To those who would like the Triple Lock to be ended (and I'm not unsympathetic to it as an idea), how would you sell the policy politically?

    Many people, when they're not voting against a party, vote on the basis of motivated self-interest. They tend not to vote for parties which they think will make them if not poorer then less well off.

    A Margaret Thatcher would go out and make the argument at every opportunity and try to persuade the electorate she was right - she didn't always succeed.

    One option might be to say to pensioners - we will continue to keep the basic pension below the personal allowance but you must accept annual rises below the rate of inflation in return.

    I'd simply rebrand it the 'inflation-lock' or something thought up by someone better at marketing than me.

    Alternatively I'd keep the "triple lock", but carefully adjust the formula to be the greater of inflation, 0% and the lowest temperature recorded in Scotland over the previous 12 months.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,727
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Ah. Maybe a schoolboy error here

    The supermarket I dashed into is Erewhon
    .
    “Erewhon is often called the most expensive grocery store in America, positioning wellness and clean eating as a luxury and status symbol. Patronised by celebrities and influencers….”

    I just did the equivalent of nipping into the Connaught for a cuppa

    lol

    The joke is that Whole Foods is 'Whole Wallet', while Erewhon is more like 'Whole Paycheck'.

    On the other hand, were I ever to need to start dating again, I'd skip the apps and go to the fresh produce section of Erewhon.
    This so reminds me of General Technics in Stand on Zanzibar with their supposedly "healthy" foods that are in fact corrupted under the pressures of over population. What a book that was. Absolutely visionary. Written in 1969 but anticipating the corporate super giants of today, the relative weakness of nation states, the stresses caused by over population and the climate crises that it produces. Brunner was a genius.
    I remember it too from my teenage days.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,041

    Advance: Combat 18
    Reform UK: National Front
    Tories: a smeared fly on a windscreen
    Labour - One Nation Conservatives
    LibDems - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Millibandite Labour
    YourParty - continuity Corbyn

    Advance - Never heard of them
    Reform - BNP
    Tories - BNP
    SKS Lab - BNP
    LDs - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Corbyn Party
    Your Party - Socially Conservative Corbyn Pary

    Genuinely excited by the Polanski Greens. Some umph into our politics again. Some of what he is saying is bonkers, but its Bonkers with Feeling, which is better than numb bonkers as we get from Starmer & Badenoch
    You are a candidate for the LDs. Shouldn't you be a bit more excited by Davey?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,798

    That chocolate bar. Understand the process:
    1) Ideation - lets hand out Cadbury bars with a slogan on the wrapper
    2) Design - a template is made and slogans written
    3) Approval - someone signs off the file to print
    4) Creation - printer receives the file, pisses himself, fulfils the contract. Box(es) of labels sent to CCHQ
    5) Wrappers are removed from Cadbury bars and the new wrapper is applied and glued
    6) Slogan chocs packed into boxes
    7) Boxes unpacked and the contents put into goody bags for delegates and hacks

    At multiple points people had eyeballs on the wrapper. Design, approval, wrapping, distribution

    So either: it's deliberate mendacious wrecking. Or the party is grotesquely monumentally stupid.

    Even at the last minute once they started bing handed out surely someone would notice not spelt gud and pull them back.

    How the hell did this happen?

    I wonder which.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,764
    I reckon "Zack" is a Saved By The Bell fan

    "Screech" might have been a more apt moniker
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,727
    edited 7:32PM
    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg today sounds awfully like Edward Heath, then.

    And the chablis and lobster brought by the valet fits both too.

    Rees Mogg is posher though and with more charm, as well as much more rightwing.

    Perhaps we should arrange a PB outing to Heath's grand house and museum, to himself, in Salisbury cathedral close
    Good grief, on checking, that is next door to The Wardrobe, the Landmark Trust property which I was looking at the other day with a view to a possible holiday (but turns out to be an attic or at least upstairs flat so mixed pros and cons and we have moved on to other ideas).
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,025
    viewcode said:

    Advance: Combat 18
    Reform UK: National Front
    Tories: a smeared fly on a windscreen
    Labour - One Nation Conservatives
    LibDems - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Millibandite Labour
    YourParty - continuity Corbyn

    Advance - Never heard of them
    Reform - BNP
    Tories - BNP
    SKS Lab - BNP
    LDs - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Corbyn Party
    Your Party - Socially Conservative Corbyn Pary

    Genuinely excited by the Polanski Greens. Some umph into our politics again. Some of what he is saying is bonkers, but its Bonkers with Feeling, which is better than numb bonkers as we get from Starmer & Badenoch
    You are a candidate for the LDs. Shouldn't you be a bit more excited by Davey?
    Eds only exciting on a paddle board

    Or when compared to SKS and KB
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,727
    edited 7:40PM
    Nigelb said:

    That chocolate bar. Understand the process:
    1) Ideation - lets hand out Cadbury bars with a slogan on the wrapper
    2) Design - a template is made and slogans written
    3) Approval - someone signs off the file to print
    4) Creation - printer receives the file, pisses himself, fulfils the contract. Box(es) of labels sent to CCHQ
    5) Wrappers are removed from Cadbury bars and the new wrapper is applied and glued
    6) Slogan chocs packed into boxes
    7) Boxes unpacked and the contents put into goody bags for delegates and hacks

    At multiple points people had eyeballs on the wrapper. Design, approval, wrapping, distribution

    So either: it's deliberate mendacious wrecking. Or the party is grotesquely monumentally stupid.

    Even at the last minute once they started bing handed out surely someone would notice not spelt gud and pull them back.

    How the hell did this happen?

    I wonder which.
    ...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,130
    Kemi is against ID cards as it is an attack on civil liberties but

    Tories to give wider stop and search power in crime hotspots

    Under the Conservative proposals, police in 2,000 areas would be able to act without having grounds for suspicion


    Officers would be given sweeping powers to stop and search anyone in the 2,000 areas of the country with the highest crime rates under Conservative proposals.

    Police will for the first time be allowed to search people without first having grounds for suspicion, Chris Philp, the shadow home secretary, will announce on Tuesday. The powers would be used in the areas with the highest rates of robbery, theft, burglary, violence, drug dealing and antisocial behaviour.

    Police forces would be threatened with funding cuts if they refused to use the powers, which would be combined with an “intensive” deployment of live facial recognition cameras installed on police vans and fixed to lampposts.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/4e5872ce-6722-4141-89f5-533a99a2bc40
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,129
    viewcode said:

    Advance: Combat 18
    Reform UK: National Front
    Tories: a smeared fly on a windscreen
    Labour - One Nation Conservatives
    LibDems - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Millibandite Labour
    YourParty - continuity Corbyn

    Advance - Never heard of them
    Reform - BNP
    Tories - BNP
    SKS Lab - BNP
    LDs - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Corbyn Party
    Your Party - Socially Conservative Corbyn Pary

    Genuinely excited by the Polanski Greens. Some umph into our politics again. Some of what he is saying is bonkers, but its Bonkers with Feeling, which is better than numb bonkers as we get from Starmer & Badenoch
    You are a candidate for the LDs. Shouldn't you be a bit more excited by Davey?
    I am. But I am excited by the disruption from the Greens - it is needed. Labour are centre right, so we need a populist left party to replace them.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,291

    I reckon "Zack" is a Saved By The Bell fan

    "Screech" might have been a more apt moniker

    He of the famed ‘Dirty Sanchez’, 🤮, no less.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,340

    Truss v Jenrick.

    Narrator: When Liz Truss was Prime Minister the Tories polled as low as 14%

    I see @RobertJenrick has been saying the Mini-Budget was unconservative.

    What’s really dishonest and unconservative is driving wealth creators and successful companies out of the country with tax rises that actually end up increasing the country's debt.

    This is exactly what the policies pursued by Rishi Sunak and Rachel Reeves have done.

    Rob is a self-styled critic of the Blairite establishment but has completely failed to take on their false narrative about 2022 or mention the role of the Bank of England. The Bank admit two thirds of the gilt spike was down to their failures on pensions oversight.

    Until the Conservative Party is honest about what happened in 2022, they are destined to remain at 16 percent in the polls.


    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1975229735450894615

    Team Liz on this one.

    Like or loathe Truss, the Tories fucked themselves over by buying into the false narrative that she 'crashed the economy'. They could never have overturned that narrative, but they could have, and should still be trying to, drive a counter-narrative that the Bank also had huge questions to answer. A combination of Sunkite tribalism and the usual Tory toadying to anyone with money or power prevented this from happening.
    Perhaps so.

    But it doesn't alter the fact that Truss's economic strategy was another variant of 'spend ourselves rich' profligate bollox.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,197

    Bigger question is how Heath got elected as Conservative Party leader in the first place with social skills that poor

    I assume it's because the alternative was seen as worse in ideological terms, and/or he was seen as the protégé of a senior, still influential, figure.
    The Conservatives had just lost the 1964 election, having been in office for a decade with a succession of elderly leaders, and it was time for a new generation (well, ww2 as opposed to ww1). There were only three candidates and one of those was Enoch Powell, a token candidate. Realistically the choice was Ted Heath against Reginald Maudling.

    Sod it, here's Wikipedia:-
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1965_Conservative_Party_leadership_election
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,798

    HYUFD said:

    Bigger question is how Heath got elected as Conservative Party leader in the first place with social skills that poor

    Former Chief Whip, he knew where all the bodies were buried, he was Chief Whip whilst Bob Boothby was shagging, inter alia, Ronnie Kray.
    He was also relatively heavyweight and Powell split the right of the party vote with Maudling enabling Heath to win with the united One Nation
    centrist wing of the party behind him.

    Of course there was the rumour Heath himself used to go cottaging of an evening after a late night vote but stopped after he himself was given a warning by the Whips
    I had thought that Heath was seen as more right-wing than Maudling at the time of the leadership election. Seems a bit hard to believe in the light of subsequent events. But then John Major was also seen as the rightwing alternative to Hezza and Hurd at the time of Mrs T's defenestration- and now he's Mr Moderate compared to his successors.
    It's more that Maudling just wasn't very good.
    If he hadn't tried to play politics in Europe, it's just about possible DeGaulle wouldn't have vetoed our original attempt at accession.

    The alt history of that is quite interesting.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,157

    Sandpit said:

    That massive Crimean oil terminal does appear to be still, umm, experiencing operational difficulties, following last night’s unexpected conflagration.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1975231425466229019

    The Tyumen oil refinery, nearly 2,000km from Ukraine, may also now have been hit.

    It's a middle-sized refinery that hasn't been hit before.

    Ukraine do seem to be stepping up the tempo of their attacks on Russian oil refineries.
    It’s almost as if someone just gave them a lot of Storm Shadows to play with

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,564

    eek said:

    A story I think TSE will appreciate....

    In recent weeks, stung by criticism that she
    was aloof from her MPs, Badenoch has
    begun inviting in small groups for lunch.
    Well, platters of shop-bought sandwiches.

    When I pointed out to one invitee that
    Badenoch famously declared last year that
    she hated sandwiches (in line with just 1%
    of the British public), they replied "oh no,
    the MPs had sandwiches, Kemi had
    something hot brought in".

    https://bsky.app/profile/michaeljsc.bsky.social/post/3m2jhne5dpc2h

    Reminds me of the time a guy who was going to America had a first class seat, but after booking he started a relationship, and took his new girlfriend on the trip but booked her in standard class on the same flight.

    Astonishingly the relationship didn't last long after that trip to America.
    Wasn’t there a story about Heath after a long evening with his team having a tasty late supper served to him but nothing for them?
    Unlikely as it seems perhaps Heath is the closest comparator to Kemi; prickly, humourless, bad at the talking human stuff. Ted of course did nevertheless manage to win elections..
    Yah.

    Keir Starmer may be lacking in man-management skills, but he’s not the worst PM in that department. The clear winner is Ted Heath, who was sulky to his enemies and inconsiderate to his allies. The former Tory chairman Chris Patten wrote speeches for Heath and tells the Rosebud podcast that he was once summoned on a Saturday morning to Heath’s hotel suite and made to wait for 90 minutes before a kimono-wearing leader let him in, without the offer of a cup of coffee.

    Heath’s housekeeper brought in a tray of Chablis, lobster and cheese. “Our eyes were out on stilts because we were absolutely starving,” Patten says. Heath suddenly asked the team if they’d had anything to eat and, when they said no, replied “Oh, you must be very hungry”. He then returned to his meal without a second thought. Patten found this particularly ironic as Heath was asking them to write about “care and compassion”.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ted-heath-hunger-games-mps-qmsnmrbqm
    Heath was just self-centered and utterly lacking in self-awareness.

    It's why he played the piano (by himself), sailed a yacht (by himself) and talked so tortuously pompously (by himself).
    I used to work in a pub near Salisbury in the mid 90"s. One night Heath came in, with his protection officers and had a drink. Landlord had a small chat, but otherwise they sat in silence. Seemed a rather sad retirement for a man who had once bestride the party and country.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,025

    Politics UK
    @PolitlcsUK
    ·
    8h
    NEW: The BBC has been accused of bias after cancelling Zack Polanski's interview with Laura Kuenssberg during the Green Party conference


    Is it because Tory Laura is a homophobic, antisemite?

    Surely that is more feasible than some of the stuff thrown at Jezza by his own side in 2019 😆


  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,041
    DavidL said:

    Advance: Combat 18
    Reform UK: National Front
    Tories: a smeared fly on a windscreen
    Labour - One Nation Conservatives
    LibDems - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Millibandite Labour
    YourParty - continuity Corbyn

    Advance - Never heard of them
    Reform - BNP
    Tories - BNP
    SKS Lab - BNP
    LDs - Blairite Labour
    Greens - Corbyn Party
    Your Party - Socially Conservative Corbyn Pary

    Genuinely excited by the Polanski Greens. Some umph into our politics again. Some of what he is saying is bonkers, but its Bonkers with Feeling, which is better than numb bonkers as we get from Starmer & Badenoch
    Oh feck no. We simply do not have the capacity to cope with yet more self indulgent twaddle. Where the hell are the adults?
    A wealth tax, regardless of whether it is considered good or bad, is a legitimate solution to the trilemma of not enough tax, too much spending, and too much inequality. Reform are also offering solutions, albeit different ones. The adults in the room are still wedded to the neoliberal consensus which no longer works. Until this is internalised by Labour and Conservatives, they will continue to offer adult, grown-up tried-and-tested solutions that no longer work and will be punished accordingly.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,157

    Scott_xP said:

    Foss said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    "The hundreds of billions of dollars companies are investing in AI now account for an astonishing 40 per cent share of US GDP growth this year... In a way, then, America has become one big bet on AI."

    https://www.ft.com/content/6cc87bd9-cb2f-4f82-99c5-c38748986a2e

    Along those lines, this is from today's NY Times:

    "A credible estimate suggests that A.I. capital expenditures may reach 2 percent of the gross domestic product in 2025, up from most likely less than 0.1 percent in 2022."

    It was going to be my factoid of the day.
    The problem is not the gross expenditure, as such. The big issue is the incestuous nature of the spend.

    Nvidia went up cos OpenAI ordered loads of cards. OpenAI went up cos they got another round of funding, from Nvidia...
    OpenAI's value just jumped as they've arranged to buy 10% of AMD at a penny a share.
    More infrastructure spend by a software company. None of the spend is by actual customers for AI. It's all just more air in the bubble.
    Okay. Let's suppose it is a massive bubble. At some point there are going to be all these data centres stuffed full of GPUs that someone could buy for pennies. What could you do with that compute capacity that would be worth the cost of electricity?
    Bitcoin mining?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,564

    Arms imports by Israel from UK hits record highs - C4 News

    Grenade launcers, parts for bombs, parts for Military Planes amongst the imports

    More manufacturing jobs for British workers. Something to applaud.
    Genocide ok with you?
    Genocide is an overused term. It's horrible in Gaza but to my eyes equating what is going on with previous genocides stretches the term too far. Put it this way - if Israel is attempting genocide they are rubbish at it, considering their military potential.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,399

    Sandpit said:

    That massive Crimean oil terminal does appear to be still, umm, experiencing operational difficulties, following last night’s unexpected conflagration.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1975231425466229019

    The Tyumen oil refinery, nearly 2,000km from Ukraine, may also now have been hit.

    It's a middle-sized refinery that hasn't been hit before.

    Ukraine do seem to be stepping up the tempo of their attacks on Russian oil refineries.
    It’s almost as if someone just gave them a lot of Storm Shadows to play with

    The range of storm shadow is only 250km. I don't think Russian air defences are yet so weak that Ukrainian jets are roaming deep into Russian airspace.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,197

    That chocolate bar. Understand the process:
    1) Ideation - lets hand out Cadbury bars with a slogan on the wrapper
    2) Design - a template is made and slogans written
    3) Approval - someone signs off the file to print
    4) Creation - printer receives the file, pisses himself, fulfils the contract. Box(es) of labels sent to CCHQ
    5) Wrappers are removed from Cadbury bars and the new wrapper is applied and glued
    6) Slogan chocs packed into boxes
    7) Boxes unpacked and the contents put into goody bags for delegates and hacks

    At multiple points people had eyeballs on the wrapper. Design, approval, wrapping, distribution

    So either: it's deliberate mendacious wrecking. Or the party is grotesquely monumentally stupid.

    Even at the last minute once they started bing handed out surely someone would notice not spelt gud and pull them back.

    How the hell did this happen?

    First thing worth noting is that spelling mistakes can be surprisingly hard to notice, particularly if you're focusing on other aspects, like choice of font, etc.

    That said, I think it's an example of a modern British malaise whereby junior staff are not encouraged and empowered to correct mistakes - they've not been delegated the authority. The senior people are too busy trying to run everything to answer your question about the spelling. Maybe it's deliberate? A pun you can't spot?

    You're so scared of getting in trouble for changing it that you daren't do so, and you just send it on as is.

    The end result is that the senior person thinks that everyone junior to them is too stupid to spot a spelling mistake, and so doesn't trust them to do anything. Making the situation worse.

    It's like with those cakes where someone ices on the literal text, "Owen with a smiley face in the O". People are just doing exactly what they're told, because they've learned they get in trouble if they try to use their judgement.
    My international megacorp employer proclaimed the power of one – anyone could stop a change. That went away with takeovers, and our near 100 per cent record of success declined further than you'd think.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,197

    That chocolate bar. Understand the process:
    1) Ideation - lets hand out Cadbury bars with a slogan on the wrapper
    2) Design - a template is made and slogans written
    3) Approval - someone signs off the file to print
    4) Creation - printer receives the file, pisses himself, fulfils the contract. Box(es) of labels sent to CCHQ
    5) Wrappers are removed from Cadbury bars and the new wrapper is applied and glued
    6) Slogan chocs packed into boxes
    7) Boxes unpacked and the contents put into goody bags for delegates and hacks

    At multiple points people had eyeballs on the wrapper. Design, approval, wrapping, distribution

    So either: it's deliberate mendacious wrecking. Or the party is grotesquely monumentally stupid.

    Even at the last minute once they started bing handed out surely someone would notice not spelt gud and pull them back.

    How the hell did this happen?

    First thing worth noting is that spelling mistakes can be surprisingly hard to notice, particularly if you're focusing on other aspects, like choice of font, etc.

    That said, I think it's an example of a modern British malaise whereby junior staff are not encouraged and empowered to correct mistakes - they've not been delegated the authority. The senior people are too busy trying to run everything to answer your question about the spelling. Maybe it's deliberate? A pun you can't spot?

    You're so scared of getting in trouble for changing it that you daren't do so, and you just send it on as is.

    The end result is that the senior person thinks that everyone junior to them is too stupid to spot a spelling mistake, and so doesn't trust them to do anything. Making the situation worse.

    It's like with those cakes where someone ices on the literal text, "Owen with a smiley face in the O". People are just doing exactly what they're told, because they've learned they get in trouble if they try to use their judgement.
    I once wrote a 35,000 word report at work, days of ruthlessly proof checking, hundreds of hyperlinks checked and rechecked, formatting checked.

    Only after I emailed the report to the board did I notice I had spelled my name wrong on the front page.
    Wrongly. (Yes, I know.)
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,157
    Dopermean said:

    Madness.

    Conservative party will go in to the next election with a pledge to protect the triple lock (which would keep it in place until at least 2034), a spokesman says.

    State pension is exempted from the £47bn in spending cuts set out by Mel Stride in his conference speech just now.


    https://x.com/HugoGye/status/1975138781679452472

    I give up.
    Without wishing to defend Mel Pillock, it is completely impossible politically to ditch the triple lock. Eliminating NI, raising income tax, and therefore bringing pensions within the scope of taxable income is a milder way of redressing the balance.
    Unfortunately, in this particular climate and against this political backdrop the Tories would be signing their own death warrant (more than they are doing already) by pledging to abolish the triple lock.

    I don't like that, but I can accept the political realty. In a similar way that Cameron needed to "share the proceeds of growth" rather than talk about spending cuts until the GFC, because otherwise he would run straight into the Labour line of attack about cutting the NHS/public services which was their trump card from 1997-2008.

    There will perhaps come a time and a place when someone will have political cover to abolish it, but that time is not now.
    It doesn't have to be abolished, just tweaked very slightly. You could replace 'ax' with 'in' or the whole word with average.
    Rebrand it the “quadruple lock”. New condition is “never above the personal allowance”
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,157

    MaxPB said:

    Madness.

    Conservative party will go in to the next election with a pledge to protect the triple lock (which would keep it in place until at least 2034), a spokesman says.

    State pension is exempted from the £47bn in spending cuts set out by Mel Stride in his conference speech just now.


    https://x.com/HugoGye/status/1975138781679452472

    I give up.
    Me too. There's no party for us now @Casino_Royale.
    Labour and Reform are both fiscally incontinent, so there's no prospect of me engaging there either, sadly.

    It will be a very detailed cock and balls at this rate.
    A fiscally continent cock and balls, please.
    To be honest I’d settle for a continent cock and balls…
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,025
    I hear David Paulden is also a gay, vegan, Eco populist.

    Thank God he isn't in charge of anything!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,041
    edited 7:50PM
    I know I slag off the UK a lot, and with some justification. But this is the contrary view of an American who moved to the UK and stayed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1QvVnjiegE
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,197
    Ratters said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    To those who would like the Triple Lock to be ended (and I'm not unsympathetic to it as an idea), how would you sell the policy politically?

    Many people, when they're not voting against a party, vote on the basis of motivated self-interest. They tend not to vote for parties which they think will make them if not poorer then less well off.

    A Margaret Thatcher would go out and make the argument at every opportunity and try to persuade the electorate she was right - she didn't always succeed.

    One option might be to say to pensioners - we will continue to keep the basic pension below the personal allowance but you must accept annual rises below the rate of inflation in return.

    I'd simply rebrand it the 'inflation-lock' or something thought up by someone better at marketing than me.

    Alternatively I'd keep the "triple lock", but carefully adjust the formula to be the greater of inflation, 0% and the lowest temperature recorded in Scotland over the previous 12 months.
    Pensions used to be linked to wages, which was changed by the Thatcher government to inflation, which led to Gordon Brown's much-derided 75p increase, and thus indirectly to the triple lock.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,675
    The human cost of the war for Russia:

    "The Ukrainian project
    @hochuzhit_com
    has published a photo of a document with Russian losses over 8 months, from January to September 2025. According to it, total KIA numbers 86,744, roughly 10,843 per month, which is very close to our earlier estimates. Total losses are 281,550"

    https://x.com/Tatarigami_UA/status/1975125211914834145
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