Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
Much as I dislike the party, I do think they have half a point here. They have MPs in the House, and other minor parties do have peers. Of course Starmer can just ignore the request he chooses, but I think it might be sensible to give them a couple of nominations.
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
Indeed. What then does that make seventh place in Cardiff and less than 3% in Newcastle?
Labour are in government, having won a landslide just over a year ago, and are now in danger of dropping below the conservatives who are irrelevant at present, and certainly those two elections were not on even the most optimistic supporter's radar
Do you have any gen on how he 20mph default limit reviews are turning out in Wales, Big G, or chatter?
I've only seen review data on Wexham, and afaics it looks like 14-15% of urban streets and roads will be sticking at 20mph in most places.
The changes seem eminently sensible and once implemented I expect the issue to become a non issue
Certainly Farage wants to return to the original 30mph zones, but I do not agree with that as the present compromise is the answwer
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
Does that make the mistake of assuming that each oldie would make as many trips as they would if it weren't 'free' (as if they weren't also council tax payers, of course)?
Many don't partake of free bus passes as they prefer to go places in style.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
Only nostalgia for the very old- Greater London was set up sixty years ago. Some of it is "Surrey/Kent/Essex, actually", it's part of some people's identity that they (or their family) moved out of London. Some of it is the natural human instinct to want an area they can control; the right win comfortably in Havering but don't have a chance in London as a whole.
As for the travel thing, Hexit campaigners usually promise that will be kept. Somehow.
Incidentally, Andrew Rosindell's latest local campaign is to oppose the formation of a massive borough of East London, taking in all of historic Essex in Greater London, with a massive permanent Labour majority bullying plucky little Romford. That's nonsense, isn't it?
Heard Farage once banging on him recalling how everyone in his village being happier when it was in Kent. Despite the fact he was born in 1964. So has no memory of it. You'd have to be 65+. And about 80 to have any practical civic memory.
He could be recalling them moaning about it when he was a kid. My father's generation mithered on for years afterwards about Heath's reorganisation of local government in 1972.
I’ve been asked to write 100 words on the “worst thing about Heathrow”
If anyone wants to offload, give me your gripes
Mine is the recent closure of all the oyster bars, but the Gazette editor may find this a bit First World
One of the few airports in the world you cannot leave for free. You can't walk or cycle through the tunnel. The bus used to be free to get you through, but Khan nixed that.
So if someone arrives with no working payment mechanism, they cannot leave Heathrow.
That's a cracking fact.
Are there still free buses around to use for escape purposes?
There used to be a thing called the Hotel Hoppa that failed to check tickets - I hear.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
He was on the streets screaming for “throats to be cut” - during the riots - and he doesn’t do any time and then he’s cleared - all good. He was probably joking. Haha
Lucy Connolly sent a stupid tweet - A TWEET - before any riots, then deleted it, and she got 34 months in prison
Yes yes yes she pleaded guilty but that’s coz she was bullied into it. They didn’t bully him
This is the most two tier thing since Two Tier Kier literally built two tiers in the twotiergarten
It does appear that Ms Connolly was very badly advised.
The sensible thing to do would be for her sentence to be commuted to time served, lest she become a political martyr against the government, the poster girl for “two tier” justice.
It’s pretty obvious that the day she gets released she’ll be lining up the podcast bookings, probably starting with Piers Morgan, Triggernomety, and Lotus Eaters, before heading to the US where a lot of the right-wing podcasters have talked about her case.
She's going to be out soon anyway. The fucking idiot doesn't strike me as somebody who has the sense to keep her head down. Reality TV and inevitable divorce beckons I reckon.
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
Indeed. What then does that make seventh place in Cardiff and less than 3% in Newcastle?
Labour are in government, having won a landslide just over a year ago, and are now in danger of dropping below the conservatives who are irrelevant at present, and certainly those two elections were not on even the most optimistic supporter's radar
Do you have any gen on how he 20mph default limit reviews are turning out in Wales, Big G, or chatter?
I've only seen review data on Wexham, and afaics it looks like 14-15% of urban streets and roads will be sticking at 20mph in most places.
I've reversed that - it will be 14-15% sticking at 30mph !
It still irritates me that the Americans insist on telling you that the difference between 47 and 52 is 5 (which might be classed as unnecessary information) and fail to tell us how these numbers compare with the last ones giving the direction of travel. Why on earth do they do this?
Having said this, I got lured into watching a video yesterday when people in the street were being asked if a die was rolled 420 times how many 3s would you expect? The people getting it wrong included a teacher, allegedly. Innumeracy rules, apparently.
.............and the answer is 70.....or dice have no memory? Is it a trick question?
I wouldn't expect 70. I'd expect something close to 70.
Depends how you look at it, when you roll 6, you have 2 3s. So could be around 210 as well.
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
It seems as in Cardiff voters won't touch Labour from the left or from the right.
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
It seems as in Cardiff voters won't touch Labour from the left or from the right.
A terrible result for Labour based on historical precedent. However in the North East the right haven't made as much headway as one might expect. Same goes for Penarth. I wonder who Eadric voted for?
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
He was on the streets screaming for “throats to be cut” - during the riots - and he doesn’t do any time and then he’s cleared - all good. He was probably joking. Haha
Lucy Connolly sent a stupid tweet - A TWEET - before any riots, then deleted it, and she got 34 months in prison
Yes yes yes she pleaded guilty but that’s coz she was bullied into it. They didn’t bully him
This is the most two tier thing since Two Tier Kier literally built two tiers in the twotiergarten
She pleaded guilty. She was probably not well advised.
The jury heard the evidence and decided accordingly.
If Connolly had gone not guilty and made a similar defence I’d be surprised if she was found guilty.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Two tier Keir justice? What is wrong with jurors*?
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
Conspiracy theories will be incoming about how the PM nobbled Lucy Connolly's Lawyer to give her bad advice etc etc etc .
Leon has already blamed it on Starmer and demanded a revolution. Jury trials huh? What about a Star Chamber of Leon, Eadric, Lady G, Byronic and that other fellow who's name I can't recall.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
I don't know how the jury could possibly have reached this verdict.
Well... calling someone a disgusting nazi fascist is t a crime, that I know of. Calling for them to be "got rid of" can mean a number of things. A throat cutting gesture is commonly used to mean "finish now". None of that seems to me to be encouraging or inciting violence. Unpleasant, yes, a crime, no. At least that's what I would think as a juror.
Probably behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
Why is 60 a sensible threshold here? It has surely been chosen for electoral rather than social or financial reasons.
Age is relatively easy (and cheap) to validate.
I'd be thinking definitely good idea at 80+, probably 75, maybe 70, 60 just seems bizarre.
Maybe it's regarded as the age people are likely to start getting mobility problems and difficulty walking around. I may have retired from marathon running having done my last at 59 so there may be something in it
Here's the original press release with a quote from Bozza;
There was still a recent memory of 60 being the age where you got pensioner perks. And at that stage, the gap between 60 and the actual pension age was still fairly small and fairly cheap to fill.
(The other thing here is that, outside the peaks, most public transport has to carry around a lot of empty seats- the savings made by cutting frequency or size of vehicles aren't really worth the hassle. So you might as well put someone on those seats.)
The way that was done was appalling, and typical of Johnson’s style of government, if you can call it that; making the announcement and taking the publicity, but leaving the Boroughs to pick up was a massive, and is still an increasing, bill.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
The initiative by Surrey Police on female runners getting sexually harassed is getting enormous cut through on my social media feeds. I think pretty much every woman I know has experienced it; even worse if you're out for a cycle. There's a great video of a female cyclist ripping a wing mirror off a white van in response.
Lucy Connolly was bullied into pleading guilty by a police force and prosecution service determined to make examples. Weirdly, they didn’t do that to Ricky Jones
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
I have the London 60+ Oyster which gives me free travel in the whole of the TfL area. If I tot up what it saves me in year it comes to around say £800. Very nice. However it's a saving I don't need. I could easily afford to pay the fares. So on a (rational) basis this state benefit for me makes no sense whatsoever. I should not get it. No brainer. But here's the twist. I value my 60+ Oyster at far more than the money it saves me. I get a glow using it, it makes me feel special, a reward/consolation for reaching advanced age and an incentive to get about and about. So on this basis, measured more broadly than straight £££, it's a benefit that works brilliantly. The £800 is generating at least triple that in feelgood utility for the recipient (me in this case).
But do you have to live in London to be eligible for it? My parents are still paying the normal travel fees when they visit London.
Yes you do. You have to show proof of address to get it (and pay £20) then again each year on renewal (£10).
A friend of mine used his mother's address to get one.
Lucy Connolly was bullied into pleading guilty by a police force and prosecution service determined to make examples. Weirdly, they didn’t do that to Ricky Jones
I imagine that the prosecution will be pissed off by this outcome. It could simply be that Jones had better lawyers than Conolly, as well as the fact that it was a Snaresbrook jury.
I’ve been asked to write 100 words on the “worst thing about Heathrow”
If anyone wants to offload, give me your gripes
Mine is the recent closure of all the oyster bars, but the Gazette editor may find this a bit First World
One of the few airports in the world you cannot leave for free. You can't walk or cycle through the tunnel. The bus used to be free to get you through, but Khan nixed that.
So if someone arrives with no working payment mechanism, they cannot leave Heathrow.
I once walked from my B&B to Gatwick. It was a pain in the arse. There was a footbridge across the dual carriageway and a rear door - but there was also a sign saying it was going to be closed next month, so I am not sure if you can still do that
Wick Airport is an easy stroll from the centre of that metropolis.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
Does that make the mistake of assuming that each oldie would make as many trips as they would if it weren't 'free' (as if they weren't also council tax payers, of course)?
Many don't partake of free bus passes as they prefer to go places in style.
In London you get free train and tube travel as well.
And you have to get home from the pub somehow.
I am surprised they don't get free butt wipers in London.
Only our marvellous royals are likely to get that service. Wouldn’t be surprised if some would pay to do it (well, we all pay for it of course).
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
I don't know how the jury could possibly have reached this verdict.
Juries at Snaresbrook are notorious for acquitting defendants, in the face of the evidence.
I did my jury service there. Most of the jury immediately disregarded all the evidence from the policeman on the grounds that as a policeman he must have been lying,
"I hunt phone thieves professionally – I was still targeted on Oxford Street Former detective turned private investigator warns some London areas have become ‘lawless’" (£)
The initiative by Surrey Police on female runners getting sexually harassed is getting enormous cut through on my social media feeds. I think pretty much every woman I know has experienced it; even worse if you're out for a cycle. There's a great video of a female cyclist ripping a wing mirror off a white van in response.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Two tier Keir justice? What is wrong with jurors*?
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
There is no link betwen a case where the jury decided that NG was the verdict and a guilty plea. Perhaps the first was not guilty, and the second person was. There is no evidence here of two tier justice, nothing wrong with jurors, and nothing arises from this case about the imprisonment of Connolly. (IMO too long; it should have been suspended or a community order)
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Do we have anyone who can explain the history of Parliament Piece in Kenilworth?
I am told it is important.
To do with Simon Montfort ISTR. Kenilworth Castle is quite something by the way if you are thinking of a visit - albeit much of it is Tudor magnate grandstanding.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Two tier Keir justice? What is wrong with jurors*?
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
There is no link betwen a case where the jury decided that NG was the verdict and a guilty plea. Perhaps the first was not guilty, and the second person was. There is no evidence here of two tier justice, nothing wrong with jurors, and nothing arises from this case about the imprisonment of Connolly. (IMO too long; it should have been suspended or a community order)
Inter alia it might be evidence that the jury system is breaking down due to multiracialism. There is overwhelming evidence from the USA that black jurors show a racial preference in trials (eg much more likely to acquit a black defendant) whereas white jurors show almost no racial preference
I’m not sure if we have similar evidence from the UK, and the American racial experience is very different from the UK’s - but it is far from impossible that this phenomenon has crossed the Atlantic
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
Much as I dislike the party, I do think they have half a point here. They have MPs in the House, and other minor parties do have peers. Of course Starmer can just ignore the request he chooses, but I think it might be sensible to give them a couple of nominations.
Yes. Get some of them in the Lords. The last thing you want to do is feed the 'rebel riders v stuffy establishment' narrative.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
In accepting a jury system you do sometimes have to accept that based on very many factors a jury might make an acquittal you disagree with, or that you find hard to understand based on the law put in front of them. That’s a feature of the system.
You can’t make a fair comparison between this trial and what happened with Lucy Connolly - Connolly never faced a jury, and you can’t say how they might have decided her case. I’m afraid I think it’s a bad faith argument to do so. And that comes from someone who does accept that equal treatment before the law is not robust enough in this country, in many circumstances.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
I don't know how the jury could possibly have reached this verdict.
Because they heard all the evidence and arguments and we PBers rely on X posts?
I just heard a vox pop asking people why they were protesting outside a hotel and the first person they interviewed said with a shaking voice "I'm just an ordinary person scared for the children in our community" I should say this followed a tweet by our Shadow Justice secretary Jenrick saying he supports the protests ouside hotels 'because he cares more about the safety of his daughters than the rights of foreigners.........'
All that money spent educating people in the UK and those are the sort of attitudes spewed out at the other end......God help us!
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Two tier Keir justice? What is wrong with jurors*?
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
There is no link betwen a case where the jury decided that NG was the verdict and a guilty plea. Perhaps the first was not guilty, and the second person was. There is no evidence here of two tier justice, nothing wrong with jurors, and nothing arises from this case about the imprisonment of Connolly. (IMO too long; it should have been suspended or a community order)
Inter alia it might be evidence that the jury system is breaking down due to multiracialism. There is overwhelming evidence from the USA that black jurors show a racial preference in trials (eg much more likely to acquit a black defendant) whereas white jurors show almost no racial preference
I’m not sure if we have similar evidence from the UK, and the American racial experience is very different from the UK’s - but it is far from impossible that this phenomenon has crossed the Atlantic
Yes, that must be why there are so few black people imprisoned in the USA.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
I don't know how the jury could possibly have reached this verdict.
Because they heard all the evidence and arguments and we PBers rely on X posts?
Cleverly has defied nominative determinism with his "verdict is unacceptable", jurors make seemingly bad decisions regularly, the high profile one that always comes to mind is the teacher acquitted of battering his foster daughter to death despite the forensic evidence. Though noted that was 2 juries that failed to reach a verdict.
"MP James Cleverly, the shadow secretary for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, said on social media platform X that the verdict was "unacceptable".
"Perverse decisions like this are adding to the anger that people feel and amplifying the belief that there isn't a dispassionate criminal justice system," he said."
It seems a weird decision but I do not think that even shadow Ministers should be undermining the courts or our jury system like this. Its not a responsible thing to do for someone in such a position. I thought Cleverly was supposed to be one of the smarter ones.
The jury system is the bulwark of the English criminal legal system, and we are rightly proud of it.
Except when a) they give verdicts we don't like, and/or b) they're at Snaresbrook Crown Court.
The jury system had to be abolished in Northern Ireland because members of each community wouldn't convict someone from the same community as them, and would always find someone guilty from the opposite community.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Two tier Keir justice? What is wrong with jurors*?
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
There is no link betwen a case where the jury decided that NG was the verdict and a guilty plea. Perhaps the first was not guilty, and the second person was. There is no evidence here of two tier justice, nothing wrong with jurors, and nothing arises from this case about the imprisonment of Connolly. (IMO too long; it should have been suspended or a community order)
Inter alia it might be evidence that the jury system is breaking down due to multiracialism. There is overwhelming evidence from the USA that black jurors show a racial preference in trials (eg much more likely to acquit a black defendant) whereas white jurors show almost no racial preference
I’m not sure if we have similar evidence from the UK, and the American racial experience is very different from the UK’s - but it is far from impossible that this phenomenon has crossed the Atlantic
There were two ethnic minority jurors when I did jury service, and a mixed-race defendant, but we still found him unanimously guilty. As a solicitor, I led the discussions, and I was impressed by how conscientious my fellow jurors were in considering the evidence. But, that was Luton, which has no reputation of being pro-defendant.
It is a problem when juries simply decide to acquit someone because they like them, like Jeremy Thorpe, or Ken Dodd. Thorpe could have shot Norman Scott dead in front of twenty witnesses, and he'd still have been acquitted.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Two tier Keir justice? What is wrong with jurors*?
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
There is no link betwen a case where the jury decided that NG was the verdict and a guilty plea. Perhaps the first was not guilty, and the second person was. There is no evidence here of two tier justice, nothing wrong with jurors, and nothing arises from this case about the imprisonment of Connolly. (IMO too long; it should have been suspended or a community order)
Inter alia it might be evidence that the jury system is breaking down due to multiracialism. There is overwhelming evidence from the USA that black jurors show a racial preference in trials (eg much more likely to acquit a black defendant) whereas white jurors show almost no racial preference
I’m not sure if we have similar evidence from the UK, and the American racial experience is very different from the UK’s - but it is far from impossible that this phenomenon has crossed the Atlantic
How did you find out the ethnicity of the jurors, and how they voted?
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
"MP James Cleverly, the shadow secretary for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, said on social media platform X that the verdict was "unacceptable".
"Perverse decisions like this are adding to the anger that people feel and amplifying the belief that there isn't a dispassionate criminal justice system," he said."
It seems a weird decision but I do not think that even shadow Ministers should be undermining the courts or our jury system like this. Its not a responsible thing to do for someone in such a position. I thought Cleverly was supposed to be one of the smarter ones.
Interesting for Cleverly to wade into this. Maybe there's a Tory leadership election in the offing pretty soon.
"MP James Cleverly, the shadow secretary for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, said on social media platform X that the verdict was "unacceptable".
"Perverse decisions like this are adding to the anger that people feel and amplifying the belief that there isn't a dispassionate criminal justice system," he said."
It seems a weird decision but I do not think that even shadow Ministers should be undermining the courts or our jury system like this. Its not a responsible thing to do for someone in such a position. I thought Cleverly was supposed to be one of the smarter ones.
Not good at all. If this grows then we're going to have jurors being intimidated into letting off people like Stephen Yaxley-Lennon.
"MP James Cleverly, the shadow secretary for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, said on social media platform X that the verdict was "unacceptable".
"Perverse decisions like this are adding to the anger that people feel and amplifying the belief that there isn't a dispassionate criminal justice system," he said."
It seems a weird decision but I do not think that even shadow Ministers should be undermining the courts or our jury system like this. Its not a responsible thing to do for someone in such a position. I thought Cleverly was supposed to be one of the smarter ones.
That's pretty disgraceful from Cleverly. It's tantamount to saying that the 12 jurors, who have no stake in the criminal justice system but simply give a verdict based on the evidence they hear and the guidance they are given by the judge, of being corrupt. He should withdraw that tweet.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Two tier Keir justice? What is wrong with jurors*?
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
There is no link betwen a case where the jury decided that NG was the verdict and a guilty plea. Perhaps the first was not guilty, and the second person was. There is no evidence here of two tier justice, nothing wrong with jurors, and nothing arises from this case about the imprisonment of Connolly. (IMO too long; it should have been suspended or a community order)
Inter alia it might be evidence that the jury system is breaking down due to multiracialism. There is overwhelming evidence from the USA that black jurors show a racial preference in trials (eg much more likely to acquit a black defendant) whereas white jurors show almost no racial preference
I’m not sure if we have similar evidence from the UK, and the American racial experience is very different from the UK’s - but it is far from impossible that this phenomenon has crossed the Atlantic
There were two ethnic minority jurors when I did jury service, and a mixed-race defendant, but we still found him unanimously guilty. As a solicitor, I led the discussions, and I was impressed by how conscientious my fellow jurors were in considering the evidence. But, that was Luton, which has no reputation of being pro-defendant.
It is a problem when juries simply decide to acquit someone because they like them, like Jeremy Thorpe, or Ken Dodd. Thorpe could have shot Norman Scott dead in front of twenty witnesses, and he'd still have been acquitted.
Ken Dodd was a good one, and became a law course case study.
Steven Gerrard was another more recent one, as if a jury in Liverpool was ever going to find him guilty of anything more serious than dropping litter.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
He was on the streets screaming for “throats to be cut” - during the riots - and he doesn’t do any time and then he’s cleared - all good. He was probably joking. Haha
Lucy Connolly sent a stupid tweet - A TWEET - before any riots, then deleted it, and she got 34 months in prison
Yes yes yes she pleaded guilty but that’s coz she was bullied into it. They didn’t bully him
This is the most two tier thing since Two Tier Kier literally built two tiers in the twotiergarten
A Lib Dem poster on the VoteUK forum has just posted this comment in response to the verdict.
"Britain is going to get a Reform government, and deserves to."
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
Indeed. What then does that make seventh place in Cardiff and less than 3% in Newcastle?
Labour are in government, having won a landslide just over a year ago, and are now in danger of dropping below the conservatives who are irrelevant at present, and certainly those two elections were not on even the most optimistic supporter's radar
Do you have any gen on how he 20mph default limit reviews are turning out in Wales, Big G, or chatter?
I've only seen review data on Wexham, and afaics it looks like 14-15% of urban streets and roads will be sticking at 20mph in most places.
I've reversed that - it will be 14-15% sticking at 30mph !
I think only this week Merthyr council have reverted to 30 across the borough.
In principle I agree with 20 zones in appropriate places on the road. 20 zones definitely increases speed awareness. I still find it incredibly difficult to keep to 20, although I do try.
One big criticism I have of all speed limits in Wales is speed limit repeater signs are not mandatory (as they are in England). That suggests to me that in some cases revenue rather than safety is the driver. If it is safe to only drive at 20, keep reminding me!
"MP James Cleverly, the shadow secretary for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, said on social media platform X that the verdict was "unacceptable".
"Perverse decisions like this are adding to the anger that people feel and amplifying the belief that there isn't a dispassionate criminal justice system," he said."
It seems a weird decision but I do not think that even shadow Ministers should be undermining the courts or our jury system like this. Its not a responsible thing to do for someone in such a position. I thought Cleverly was supposed to be one of the smarter ones.
That’s a silly thing for Clerverly to say.
I’m sure he’s frustrated with the result of the trial, but let’s not impune the jury.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Two tier Keir justice? What is wrong with jurors*?
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
There is no link betwen a case where the jury decided that NG was the verdict and a guilty plea. Perhaps the first was not guilty, and the second person was. There is no evidence here of two tier justice, nothing wrong with jurors, and nothing arises from this case about the imprisonment of Connolly. (IMO too long; it should have been suspended or a community order)
Inter alia it might be evidence that the jury system is breaking down due to multiracialism. There is overwhelming evidence from the USA that black jurors show a racial preference in trials (eg much more likely to acquit a black defendant) whereas white jurors show almost no racial preference
I’m not sure if we have similar evidence from the UK, and the American racial experience is very different from the UK’s - but it is far from impossible that this phenomenon has crossed the Atlantic
How did you find out the ethnicity of the jurors, and how they voted?
He's very good friends with the judge. They go to a chemsex thing in South Woodford together.
"MP James Cleverly, the shadow secretary for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, said on social media platform X that the verdict was "unacceptable".
"Perverse decisions like this are adding to the anger that people feel and amplifying the belief that there isn't a dispassionate criminal justice system," he said."
It seems a weird decision but I do not think that even shadow Ministers should be undermining the courts or our jury system like this. Its not a responsible thing to do for someone in such a position. I thought Cleverly was supposed to be one of the smarter ones.
Smarter ≠ Smart. Besides, what does this case have to do with his brief?
At some point, the Conservative Party (and hence the British centre-right) went stark, raving, tonto. There's an interesting history book to be written about when, how and why, but the important thing now is to note that it happened. And you can only get on in today's Conservatives by acting like a green pen merchant.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
He was on the streets screaming for “throats to be cut” - during the riots - and he doesn’t do any time and then he’s cleared - all good. He was probably joking. Haha
Lucy Connolly sent a stupid tweet - A TWEET - before any riots, then deleted it, and she got 34 months in prison
Yes yes yes she pleaded guilty but that’s coz she was bullied into it. They didn’t bully him
This is the most two tier thing since Two Tier Kier literally built two tiers in the twotiergarten
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1h We'll get a lot of "Two-Tier Justice" responses to this verdict. But he was arrested, and he was prosecuted. If the jury want to acquit him, I'm not sure what the police and CPS are supposed to do.
"MP James Cleverly, the shadow secretary for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, said on social media platform X that the verdict was "unacceptable".
"Perverse decisions like this are adding to the anger that people feel and amplifying the belief that there isn't a dispassionate criminal justice system," he said."
It seems a weird decision but I do not think that even shadow Ministers should be undermining the courts or our jury system like this. Its not a responsible thing to do for someone in such a position. I thought Cleverly was supposed to be one of the smarter ones.
That's pretty disgraceful from Cleverly. It's tantamount to saying that the 12 jurors, who have no stake in the criminal justice system but simply give a verdict based on the evidence they hear and the guidance they are given by the judge, of being corrupt. He should withdraw that tweet.
The big question is: why did Lucy Connelly plead guilty? I hope she wasn't pressured into it.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Two tier Keir justice? What is wrong with jurors*?
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
There is no link betwen a case where the jury decided that NG was the verdict and a guilty plea. Perhaps the first was not guilty, and the second person was. There is no evidence here of two tier justice, nothing wrong with jurors, and nothing arises from this case about the imprisonment of Connolly. (IMO too long; it should have been suspended or a community order)
Inter alia it might be evidence that the jury system is breaking down due to multiracialism. There is overwhelming evidence from the USA that black jurors show a racial preference in trials (eg much more likely to acquit a black defendant) whereas white jurors show almost no racial preference
I’m not sure if we have similar evidence from the UK, and the American racial experience is very different from the UK’s - but it is far from impossible that this phenomenon has crossed the Atlantic
How did you find out the ethnicity of the jurors, and how they voted?
“Over 34 studies of jury behavior, 7397 participants, White jurors show essentially 0 racial bias, while Blacks have strong bias in favor of their own race.”
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Two tier Keir justice? What is wrong with jurors*?
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
There is no link betwen a case where the jury decided that NG was the verdict and a guilty plea. Perhaps the first was not guilty, and the second person was. There is no evidence here of two tier justice, nothing wrong with jurors, and nothing arises from this case about the imprisonment of Connolly. (IMO too long; it should have been suspended or a community order)
Inter alia it might be evidence that the jury system is breaking down due to multiracialism. There is overwhelming evidence from the USA that black jurors show a racial preference in trials (eg much more likely to acquit a black defendant) whereas white jurors show almost no racial preference
I’m not sure if we have similar evidence from the UK, and the American racial experience is very different from the UK’s - but it is far from impossible that this phenomenon has crossed the Atlantic
How did you find out the ethnicity of the jurors, and how they voted?
“Over 34 studies of jury behavior, 7397 participants, White jurors show essentially 0 racial bias, while Blacks have strong bias in favor of their own race.”
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
I don't know how the jury could possibly have reached this verdict.
Because they heard all the evidence and arguments and we PBers rely on X posts?
I just heard a vox pop asking people why they were protesting outside a hotel and the first person they interviewed said with a shaking voice "I'm just an ordinary person scared for the children in our community" I should say this followed a tweet by our Shadow Justice secretary Jenrick saying he supports the protests ouside hotels 'because he cares more about the safety of his daughters than the rights of foreigners.........'
All that money spent educating people in the UK and those are the sort of attitudes spewed out at the other end......God help us!
(PS Didn't Jenrick go to Cambridge?)
Did I ever see Jenrick protesting at the grave of Sir Jimmy Savile?
"MP James Cleverly, the shadow secretary for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, said on social media platform X that the verdict was "unacceptable".
"Perverse decisions like this are adding to the anger that people feel and amplifying the belief that there isn't a dispassionate criminal justice system," he said."
It seems a weird decision but I do not think that even shadow Ministers should be undermining the courts or our jury system like this. Its not a responsible thing to do for someone in such a position. I thought Cleverly was supposed to be one of the smarter ones.
That's pretty disgraceful from Cleverly. It's tantamount to saying that the 12 jurors, who have no stake in the criminal justice system but simply give a verdict based on the evidence they hear and the guidance they are given by the judge, of being corrupt. He should withdraw that tweet.
The big question is: why did Lucy Connelly plead guilty? I hope she wasn't pressured into it.
At best she was badly advised, and pleaded guilty to a serious offence at a time of heightened tensions.
If she’d been up in front of a jury a year or more later, her case might have had a different outcome.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Two tier Keir justice? What is wrong with jurors*?
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
There is no link betwen a case where the jury decided that NG was the verdict and a guilty plea. Perhaps the first was not guilty, and the second person was. There is no evidence here of two tier justice, nothing wrong with jurors, and nothing arises from this case about the imprisonment of Connolly. (IMO too long; it should have been suspended or a community order)
Inter alia it might be evidence that the jury system is breaking down due to multiracialism. There is overwhelming evidence from the USA that black jurors show a racial preference in trials (eg much more likely to acquit a black defendant) whereas white jurors show almost no racial preference
I’m not sure if we have similar evidence from the UK, and the American racial experience is very different from the UK’s - but it is far from impossible that this phenomenon has crossed the Atlantic
How did you find out the ethnicity of the jurors, and how they voted?
I remember watching a documentary series called O J Simpson, Made in America, last year I think. It was outstanding and for the first time I came to understand how he had been acquitted in the face of compelling and overwhelming evidence.
The trial had been transferred to down town LA where the jury was overwhelmingly black but, much more significantly, had an overwhelming distrust of the police and everything they said about anything. That community regarded the police as an occupying force and, in fairness, they acted like that too. Add in some very plainly bigoted and racist officers and a prosecution case which should have been a walk in the park was in trouble.
The decision was clearly perverse but it also reflected the society which came to judge it. A criminal justice system that relies upon juries must genuinely reflect the values and concerns of the society that it purports to represent. I suspect several jurors here agreed with what the Councillor had had to say.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
I don't know how the jury could possibly have reached this verdict.
Because they heard all the evidence and arguments and we PBers rely on X posts?
I just heard a vox pop asking people why they were protesting outside a hotel and the first person they interviewed said with a shaking voice "I'm just an ordinary person scared for the children in our community" I should say this followed a tweet by our Shadow Justice secretary Jenrick saying he supports the protests ouside hotels 'because he cares more about the safety of his daughters than the rights of foreigners.........'
All that money spent educating people in the UK and those are the sort of attitudes spewed out at the other end......God help us!
(PS Didn't Jenrick go to Cambridge?)
Did I ever see Jenrick protesting at the grave of Sir Jimmy Savile?
Maybe he can’t find it since they removed all trace of it.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Two tier Keir justice? What is wrong with jurors*?
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
There is no link betwen a case where the jury decided that NG was the verdict and a guilty plea. Perhaps the first was not guilty, and the second person was. There is no evidence here of two tier justice, nothing wrong with jurors, and nothing arises from this case about the imprisonment of Connolly. (IMO too long; it should have been suspended or a community order)
Inter alia it might be evidence that the jury system is breaking down due to multiracialism. There is overwhelming evidence from the USA that black jurors show a racial preference in trials (eg much more likely to acquit a black defendant) whereas white jurors show almost no racial preference
I’m not sure if we have similar evidence from the UK, and the American racial experience is very different from the UK’s - but it is far from impossible that this phenomenon has crossed the Atlantic
How did you find out the ethnicity of the jurors, and how they voted?
I remember watching a documentary series called O J Simpson, Made in America, last year I think. It was outstanding and for the first time I came to understand how he had been acquitted in the face of compelling and overwhelming evidence.
The trial had been transferred to down town LA where the jury was overwhelmingly black but, much more significantly, had an overwhelming distrust of the police and everything they said about anything. That community regarded the police as an occupying force and, in fairness, they acted like that too. Add in some very plainly bigoted and racist officers and a prosecution case which should have been a walk in the park was in trouble.
The decision was clearly perverse but it also reflected the society which came to judge it. A criminal justice system that relies upon juries must genuinely reflect the values and concerns of the society that it purports to represent. I suspect several jurors here agreed with what the Councillor had had to say.
Do we know how many jurors voted each way so to speak?
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
I don't know how the jury could possibly have reached this verdict.
Juries at Snaresbrook are notorious for acquitting defendants, in the face of the evidence.
I did my jury service there. Most of the jury immediately disregarded all the evidence from the policeman on the grounds that as a policeman he must have been lying,
How many jurors were reflecting their personal experience of their local Met officers?
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Two tier Keir justice? What is wrong with jurors*?
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
There is no link betwen a case where the jury decided that NG was the verdict and a guilty plea. Perhaps the first was not guilty, and the second person was. There is no evidence here of two tier justice, nothing wrong with jurors, and nothing arises from this case about the imprisonment of Connolly. (IMO too long; it should have been suspended or a community order)
Inter alia it might be evidence that the jury system is breaking down due to multiracialism. There is overwhelming evidence from the USA that black jurors show a racial preference in trials (eg much more likely to acquit a black defendant) whereas white jurors show almost no racial preference
I’m not sure if we have similar evidence from the UK, and the American racial experience is very different from the UK’s - but it is far from impossible that this phenomenon has crossed the Atlantic
How did you find out the ethnicity of the jurors, and how they voted?
I remember watching a documentary series called O J Simpson, Made in America, last year I think. It was outstanding and for the first time I came to understand how he had been acquitted in the face of compelling and overwhelming evidence.
The trial had been transferred to down town LA where the jury was overwhelmingly black but, much more significantly, had an overwhelming distrust of the police and everything they said about anything. That community regarded the police as an occupying force and, in fairness, they acted like that too. Add in some very plainly bigoted and racist officers and a prosecution case which should have been a walk in the park was in trouble.
The decision was clearly perverse but it also reflected the society which came to judge it. A criminal justice system that relies upon juries must genuinely reflect the values and concerns of the society that it purports to represent. I suspect several jurors here agreed with what the Councillor had had to say.
I understand that (and suspect that too). But when it comes to the far-right, I doesn't necessarily mean they were a certain ethnicity. I know some white people who would have a similar view - it might have 12 members of the Tyre Extinguishers or Palestine Action.
But we don't know. If a white rioter is found not guilty in the future at an Essex court, are we safe to assume racial bias was the reason why? Of course not.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Two tier Keir justice? What is wrong with jurors*?
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
There is no link betwen a case where the jury decided that NG was the verdict and a guilty plea. Perhaps the first was not guilty, and the second person was. There is no evidence here of two tier justice, nothing wrong with jurors, and nothing arises from this case about the imprisonment of Connolly. (IMO too long; it should have been suspended or a community order)
Inter alia it might be evidence that the jury system is breaking down due to multiracialism. There is overwhelming evidence from the USA that black jurors show a racial preference in trials (eg much more likely to acquit a black defendant) whereas white jurors show almost no racial preference
I’m not sure if we have similar evidence from the UK, and the American racial experience is very different from the UK’s - but it is far from impossible that this phenomenon has crossed the Atlantic
How did you find out the ethnicity of the jurors, and how they voted?
I remember watching a documentary series called O J Simpson, Made in America, last year I think. It was outstanding and for the first time I came to understand how he had been acquitted in the face of compelling and overwhelming evidence.
The trial had been transferred to down town LA where the jury was overwhelmingly black but, much more significantly, had an overwhelming distrust of the police and everything they said about anything. That community regarded the police as an occupying force and, in fairness, they acted like that too. Add in some very plainly bigoted and racist officers and a prosecution case which should have been a walk in the park was in trouble.
The decision was clearly perverse but it also reflected the society which came to judge it. A criminal justice system that relies upon juries must genuinely reflect the values and concerns of the society that it purports to represent. I suspect several jurors here agreed with what the Councillor had had to say.
And the defence team, thanks considerably to testimony of the hapless Mr Wong, were able to instil the conspiracy theory that all the forensic evidence had been planted by the LAPD.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
The man sounds like a nasty ****. However he rolled the dice with a jury. The fact that he threw a winner PB right wingers want to cancel trial by jury.
I remember a barrister friend telling me back in the 1980s how an all white jury in Leeds acquitted a black guy who punched a National Front guy at a demo in front of some police officers.
At the time the National Front had caused a lot of damage and his view was the jury was fine with the public punching Nazis.
I remember a barrister friend telling me back in the 1980s how an all white jury in Leeds acquitted a black guy who punched a National Front guy at a demo in front of some police officers.
At the time the National Front had caused a lot of damage and his view was the jury was fine with the public punching Nazis.
Ultimately, jury duty is a form of democracy. You have to take the rough with the smooth.
I'm just grateful that the utter [redacted] that did the female police officer at Manchester Airport gone found guilty.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Two tier Keir justice? What is wrong with jurors*?
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
There is no link betwen a case where the jury decided that NG was the verdict and a guilty plea. Perhaps the first was not guilty, and the second person was. There is no evidence here of two tier justice, nothing wrong with jurors, and nothing arises from this case about the imprisonment of Connolly. (IMO too long; it should have been suspended or a community order)
Inter alia it might be evidence that the jury system is breaking down due to multiracialism. There is overwhelming evidence from the USA that black jurors show a racial preference in trials (eg much more likely to acquit a black defendant) whereas white jurors show almost no racial preference
I’m not sure if we have similar evidence from the UK, and the American racial experience is very different from the UK’s - but it is far from impossible that this phenomenon has crossed the Atlantic
How did you find out the ethnicity of the jurors, and how they voted?
I remember watching a documentary series called O J Simpson, Made in America, last year I think. It was outstanding and for the first time I came to understand how he had been acquitted in the face of compelling and overwhelming evidence.
The trial had been transferred to down town LA where the jury was overwhelmingly black but, much more significantly, had an overwhelming distrust of the police and everything they said about anything. That community regarded the police as an occupying force and, in fairness, they acted like that too. Add in some very plainly bigoted and racist officers and a prosecution case which should have been a walk in the park was in trouble.
The decision was clearly perverse but it also reflected the society which came to judge it. A criminal justice system that relies upon juries must genuinely reflect the values and concerns of the society that it purports to represent. I suspect several jurors here agreed with what the Councillor had had to say.
Do we know how many jurors voted each way so to speak?
I don't. Not sure what is disclosed about that in England, if anything. In Scotland the jury are asked if their decision is unanimous or by a majority (that is at least 8 of a 15 person jury) but they are not asked what the majority is. Earlier this week I had 2 men convicted of culpable homicide (manslaughter) one by a majority and one unanimously. Doesn't really make any difference, of course, it is the decision that counts.
I remember a barrister friend telling me back in the 1980s how an all white jury in Leeds acquitted a black guy who punched a National Front guy at a demo in front of some police officers.
At the time the National Front had caused a lot of damage and his view was the jury was fine with the public punching Nazis.
Ultimately, jury duty is a form of democracy. You have to take the rough with the smooth.
I'm just grateful that the utter [redacted] that did the female police officer at Manchester Airport gone found guilty.
Fair play to Jacob Rees-Mogg who defended juries when they acquitted the Bristol protesters, a decision he disagreed with.
"MP James Cleverly, the shadow secretary for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, said on social media platform X that the verdict was "unacceptable".
"Perverse decisions like this are adding to the anger that people feel and amplifying the belief that there isn't a dispassionate criminal justice system," he said."
It seems a weird decision but I do not think that even shadow Ministers should be undermining the courts or our jury system like this. Its not a responsible thing to do for someone in such a position. I thought Cleverly was supposed to be one of the smarter ones.
That's pretty disgraceful from Cleverly. It's tantamount to saying that the 12 jurors, who have no stake in the criminal justice system but simply give a verdict based on the evidence they hear and the guidance they are given by the judge, of being corrupt. He should withdraw that tweet.
The big question is: why did Lucy Connelly plead guilty? I hope she wasn't pressured into it.
At best she was badly advised, and pleaded guilty to a serious offence at a time of heightened tensions.
If she’d been up in front of a jury a year or more later, her case might have had a different outcome.
I’ve commented in the past - that I don’t think anyone grasped how the sentencing would play out so what looked liked she would end up with a suspended sentence become something different as the aggravating circumstances (rioting) seriously increased the severity of the crime.
So I can see why a quick guilt admission was recommended and how everyone ended up in this mess
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Two tier Keir justice? What is wrong with jurors*?
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
There is no link betwen a case where the jury decided that NG was the verdict and a guilty plea. Perhaps the first was not guilty, and the second person was. There is no evidence here of two tier justice, nothing wrong with jurors, and nothing arises from this case about the imprisonment of Connolly. (IMO too long; it should have been suspended or a community order)
Inter alia it might be evidence that the jury system is breaking down due to multiracialism. There is overwhelming evidence from the USA that black jurors show a racial preference in trials (eg much more likely to acquit a black defendant) whereas white jurors show almost no racial preference
I’m not sure if we have similar evidence from the UK, and the American racial experience is very different from the UK’s - but it is far from impossible that this phenomenon has crossed the Atlantic
How did you find out the ethnicity of the jurors, and how they voted?
I remember watching a documentary series called O J Simpson, Made in America, last year I think. It was outstanding and for the first time I came to understand how he had been acquitted in the face of compelling and overwhelming evidence.
The trial had been transferred to down town LA where the jury was overwhelmingly black but, much more significantly, had an overwhelming distrust of the police and everything they said about anything. That community regarded the police as an occupying force and, in fairness, they acted like that too. Add in some very plainly bigoted and racist officers and a prosecution case which should have been a walk in the park was in trouble.
The decision was clearly perverse but it also reflected the society which came to judge it. A criminal justice system that relies upon juries must genuinely reflect the values and concerns of the society that it purports to represent. I suspect several jurors here agreed with what the Councillor had had to say.
And the defence team, thanks considerably to testimony of the hapless Mr Wong, were able to instil the conspiracy theory that all the forensic evidence had been planted by the LAPD.
Oops I slandered the trial judge there. Meant to say Mr Fung.
Lucy Connolly was bullied into pleading guilty by a police force and prosecution service determined to make examples. Weirdly, they didn’t do that to Ricky Jones
I suspect Connolly was told she would get a very minor punishment if she pleaded guilty.
Lucy Connolly was bullied into pleading guilty by a police force and prosecution service determined to make examples. Weirdly, they didn’t do that to Ricky Jones
I suspect Connolly was told she would get a very minor punishment if she pleaded guilty.
It would be interesting to know who told her that, if it's true.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Two tier Keir justice? What is wrong with jurors*?
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
There is no link betwen a case where the jury decided that NG was the verdict and a guilty plea. Perhaps the first was not guilty, and the second person was. There is no evidence here of two tier justice, nothing wrong with jurors, and nothing arises from this case about the imprisonment of Connolly. (IMO too long; it should have been suspended or a community order)
Inter alia it might be evidence that the jury system is breaking down due to multiracialism. There is overwhelming evidence from the USA that black jurors show a racial preference in trials (eg much more likely to acquit a black defendant) whereas white jurors show almost no racial preference
I’m not sure if we have similar evidence from the UK, and the American racial experience is very different from the UK’s - but it is far from impossible that this phenomenon has crossed the Atlantic
How did you find out the ethnicity of the jurors, and how they voted?
I remember watching a documentary series called O J Simpson, Made in America, last year I think. It was outstanding and for the first time I came to understand how he had been acquitted in the face of compelling and overwhelming evidence.
The trial had been transferred to down town LA where the jury was overwhelmingly black but, much more significantly, had an overwhelming distrust of the police and everything they said about anything. That community regarded the police as an occupying force and, in fairness, they acted like that too. Add in some very plainly bigoted and racist officers and a prosecution case which should have been a walk in the park was in trouble.
The decision was clearly perverse but it also reflected the society which came to judge it. A criminal justice system that relies upon juries must genuinely reflect the values and concerns of the society that it purports to represent. I suspect several jurors here agreed with what the Councillor had had to say.
And the defence team, thanks considerably to testimony of the hapless Mr Wong, were able to instil the conspiracy theory that all the forensic evidence had been planted by the LAPD.
Oops I slandered the trial judge there. Meant to say Mr Fung.
"MP James Cleverly, the shadow secretary for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, said on social media platform X that the verdict was "unacceptable".
"Perverse decisions like this are adding to the anger that people feel and amplifying the belief that there isn't a dispassionate criminal justice system," he said."
It seems a weird decision but I do not think that even shadow Ministers should be undermining the courts or our jury system like this. Its not a responsible thing to do for someone in such a position. I thought Cleverly was supposed to be one of the smarter ones.
That's pretty disgraceful from Cleverly. It's tantamount to saying that the 12 jurors, who have no stake in the criminal justice system but simply give a verdict based on the evidence they hear and the guidance they are given by the judge, of being corrupt. He should withdraw that tweet.
The big question is: why did Lucy Connelly plead guilty? I hope she wasn't pressured into it.
At best she was badly advised, and pleaded guilty to a serious offence at a time of heightened tensions.
If she’d been up in front of a jury a year or more later, her case might have had a different outcome.
I’ve commented in the past - that I don’t think anyone grasped how the sentencing would play out so what looked liked she would end up with a suspended sentence become something different as the aggravating circumstances (rioting) seriously increased the severity of the crime.
So I can see why a quick guilt admission was recommended and how everyone ended up in this mess
That makes sense. I guess there is broader point about public defence - how many other cases were they trying to deal with at the same time? During mass criminality you're going to have some poorly advised clients - something the Palestine Action protestors should consider.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
"I hunt phone thieves professionally – I was still targeted on Oxford Street Former detective turned private investigator warns some London areas have become ‘lawless’" (£)
"MP James Cleverly, the shadow secretary for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, said on social media platform X that the verdict was "unacceptable".
"Perverse decisions like this are adding to the anger that people feel and amplifying the belief that there isn't a dispassionate criminal justice system," he said."
It seems a weird decision but I do not think that even shadow Ministers should be undermining the courts or our jury system like this. Its not a responsible thing to do for someone in such a position. I thought Cleverly was supposed to be one of the smarter ones.
That's pretty disgraceful from Cleverly. It's tantamount to saying that the 12 jurors, who have no stake in the criminal justice system but simply give a verdict based on the evidence they hear and the guidance they are given by the judge, of being corrupt. He should withdraw that tweet.
The big question is: why did Lucy Connelly plead guilty? I hope she wasn't pressured into it.
At best she was badly advised, and pleaded guilty to a serious offence at a time of heightened tensions.
If she’d been up in front of a jury a year or more later, her case might have had a different outcome.
I’ve commented in the past - that I don’t think anyone grasped how the sentencing would play out so what looked liked she would end up with a suspended sentence become something different as the aggravating circumstances (rioting) seriously increased the severity of the crime.
So I can see why a quick guilt admission was recommended and how everyone ended up in this mess
Maybe.
But that doesnt explain why she's still in prison.
Lucy Connolly was bullied into pleading guilty by a police force and prosecution service determined to make examples. Weirdly, they didn’t do that to Ricky Jones
Ricky Jones knew his rights and used them and has been rewarded.
Don’t talk to the Police and don’t co-operate with them. They are not your friends
Here's more recent polling that you won't hear Trump or Farage supporters mentioning.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/692522/surge-concern-immigration-abated.aspx ...Americans have grown markedly more positive toward immigration over the past year, with the share wanting immigration reduced dropping from 55% in 2024 to 30% today. At the same time, a record-high 79% of U.S. adults say immigration is a good thing for the country.
These shifts reverse a four-year trend of rising concern about immigration that began in 2021 and reflect changes among all major party groups...
The paradox of the migration debate.
Most people want the total numbers to fall, but don't want the numbers in most migration scenarios to fall. It's not quite "less migrants in theory but not in practice", but it's pretty close;
The way that most people square that circle is to massively overestimate the proportion of immigration that is irregular/illegal because the boats are so visible. From that YouGov link,
Our research shows that almost half of Britons (47%) think there are more migrants staying in the UK illegally rather than legally, including fully a third of the public (32%) who think the illegal figure is “much higher”.
As our American friends are currently discovering, anti-immigrant talk is much more popular than anti-immigrant action.
Those YouGov findings are really important. The radical right has done a very good propaganda job of convincing people that most immigrants are illegal and coming for benefits. Instead of pandering to them, the Labour government needs to push back and make clear how that's not true and that immigrants are mostly the sort of immigration people like.
Texan politicians seem to believe they should be able to tell other states how to vote.
We had the Texas GOP trying to interfere in Pennsylvania's presidential vote in 2020 and now we have the Texas Dems wanting the California districts drawn to their own liking.
Texas Democrats said on Thursday they are prepared to return to the state under certain conditions, ending a nearly two-week-long effort to block Republicans from passing a new congressional map that would add five GOP seats.
The lawmakers said they would return as long as the legislature ends its first special session on Friday, which Republicans have said they plan to do. Texas’s governor, Greg Abbott, has said he will immediately call another special session.
The Democrats also said they would return once California introduces a new congressional map that would add five Democratic seats, offsetting the gains in Texas. California’s governor, Gavin Newsom, is expected to announce what he has teased as a “major” redistricting announcement on Thursday.
Incidentally if the California GOP representatives leave the state would that stop Newsom's second stage gerrymandering on quorum grounds ? If they did we'd likely to have a reversal of the cheering/jeering reaction to the Texan Dems doing so.
Comments
Of course Starmer can just ignore the request he chooses, but I think it might be sensible to give them a couple of nominations.
Certainly Farage wants to return to the original 30mph zones, but I do not agree with that as the present compromise is the answwer
My father's generation mithered on for years afterwards about Heath's reorganisation of local government in 1972.
There used to be a thing called the Hotel Hoppa that failed to check tickets - I hear.
The jury heard the evidence and decided accordingly.
If Connolly had gone not guilty and made a similar defence I’d be surprised if she was found guilty.
Probably behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace.
But the jury were (I hope) listening to the whole trial, and we weren't.
Former detective turned private investigator warns some London areas have become ‘lawless’" (£)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/15/phone-thieves-oxford-street-london-crime
I am told it is important.
I am told it is important.
Except when a) they give verdicts we don't like, and/or b) they're at Snaresbrook Crown Court.
I’m not sure if we have similar evidence from the UK, and the American racial experience is very different from the UK’s - but it is far from impossible that this phenomenon has crossed the Atlantic
You can’t make a fair comparison between this trial and what happened with Lucy Connolly - Connolly never faced a jury, and you can’t say how they might have decided her case. I’m afraid I think it’s a bad faith argument to do so. And that comes from someone who does accept that equal treatment before the law is not robust enough in this country, in many circumstances.
All that money spent educating people in the UK and those are the sort of attitudes spewed out at the other end......God help us!
(PS Didn't Jenrick go to Cambridge?)
"MP James Cleverly, the shadow secretary for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, said on social media platform X that the verdict was "unacceptable".
"Perverse decisions like this are adding to the anger that people feel and amplifying the belief that there isn't a dispassionate criminal justice system," he said."
It seems a weird decision but I do not think that even shadow Ministers should be undermining the courts or our jury system like this. Its not a responsible thing to do for someone in such a position. I thought Cleverly was supposed to be one of the smarter ones.
It is a problem when juries simply decide to acquit someone because they like them, like Jeremy Thorpe, or Ken Dodd. Thorpe could have shot Norman Scott dead in front of twenty witnesses, and he'd still have been acquitted.
He should withdraw that tweet.
Steven Gerrard was another more recent one, as if a jury in Liverpool was ever going to find him guilty of anything more serious than dropping litter.
"Britain is going to get a Reform government, and deserves to."
In principle I agree with 20 zones in appropriate places on the road. 20 zones definitely increases speed awareness. I still find it incredibly difficult to keep to 20, although I do try.
One big criticism I have of all speed limits in Wales is speed limit repeater signs are not mandatory (as they are in England). That suggests to me that in some cases revenue rather than safety is the driver. If it is safe to only drive at 20, keep reminding me!
I’m sure he’s frustrated with the result of the trial, but let’s not impune the jury.
At some point, the Conservative Party (and hence the British centre-right) went stark, raving, tonto. There's an interesting history book to be written about when, how and why, but the important thing now is to note that it happened. And you can only get on in today's Conservatives by acting like a green pen merchant.
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
1h
We'll get a lot of "Two-Tier Justice" responses to this verdict. But he was arrested, and he was prosecuted. If the jury want to acquit him, I'm not sure what the police and CPS are supposed to do.
https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1956302662099501505
https://x.com/jonatanpallesen/status/1943014124348411937?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
If she’d been up in front of a jury a year or more later, her case might have had a different outcome.
The trial had been transferred to down town LA where the jury was overwhelmingly black but, much more significantly, had an overwhelming distrust of the police and everything they said about anything. That community regarded the police as an occupying force and, in fairness, they acted like that too. Add in some very plainly bigoted and racist officers and a prosecution case which should have been a walk in the park was in trouble.
The decision was clearly perverse but it also reflected the society which came to judge it. A criminal justice system that relies upon juries must genuinely reflect the values and concerns of the society that it purports to represent. I suspect several jurors here agreed with what the Councillor had had to say.
But we don't know. If a white rioter is found not guilty in the future at an Essex court, are we safe to assume racial bias was the reason why? Of course not.
At the time the National Front had caused a lot of damage and his view was the jury was fine with the public punching Nazis.
I'm just grateful that the utter [redacted] that did the female police officer at Manchester Airport gone found guilty.
So I can see why a quick guilt admission was recommended and how everyone ended up in this mess
a crime that carried a 3.5 year sentence
Worth adding that @Cyclefree has posted this link to a comment Leon made on twitter https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/defence-solicitor-praised-by-court-of-appeal-in-southport-tweet-case/5123344.article
Which says she wasn’t badly advised - she ignored the advice
"Just Stop Oil can call off their protests. Technology is stopping oil more dramatically than they could ever achieve."
Freight is going green fast but it won’t run on hydrogen after all
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/08/15/heavy-lorries-next-giant-domino-to-fall-for-big-oil
Normally, people ignore advice in the other direction (i.e. they take it to court when they probably shouldn't).
But that doesnt explain why she's still in prison.
Don’t talk to the Police and don’t co-operate with them. They are not your friends
We had the Texas GOP trying to interfere in Pennsylvania's presidential vote in 2020 and now we have the Texas Dems wanting the California districts drawn to their own liking.
Texas Democrats said on Thursday they are prepared to return to the state under certain conditions, ending a nearly two-week-long effort to block Republicans from passing a new congressional map that would add five GOP seats.
The lawmakers said they would return as long as the legislature ends its first special session on Friday, which Republicans have said they plan to do. Texas’s governor, Greg Abbott, has said he will immediately call another special session.
The Democrats also said they would return once California introduces a new congressional map that would add five Democratic seats, offsetting the gains in Texas. California’s governor, Gavin Newsom, is expected to announce what he has teased as a “major” redistricting announcement on Thursday.
Incidentally if the California GOP representatives leave the state would that stop Newsom's second stage gerrymandering on quorum grounds ? If they did we'd likely to have a reversal of the cheering/jeering reaction to the Texan Dems doing so.