One interesting thing in this poll is that the youngsters are the least likely to say "don't know". That is very unusual for opinion polling.
Gaza is a big thing for young voters. It was a major part of why neither of my boys would vote Labour last year.
Too late for Starmer to get them onside. As ever he does too little too late.
The extent to which Israel/Palestine dominates left discourse in this country when other foreign conflicts with far greater death tolls & distribution of misery are completely ignored has always depressed me. Why this conflict in particular?
That is a good question without clear answers. Possible partial reasons include Britain's historical connection to the area (compared to, say, DRC); the greater ease with which Western journalists can report on this conflict (compared to, say, DRC); and the degree to which the Left sees Israel/Palestine as a colonial conflict between colonisers and colonised (compared to, say, DRC).
It is also a self defeating complete waste of political energy given neither Palestinians nor Israeli power give a monkeys what the UK govt thinks, let alone what splinter groups on the left think.
It is not unusual for it to keep the left out of power and it reduces attention on things within their control.
Lets talk about the West Bank and how it could serve as a homeland. Here is the actual amount of land available to the Palestinians in comparison to that available to settlers and the IDF. It's been sliced and diced by roads between settlements that disrupt life there and kettles the population. Gaza is now being prepared for the same slice and dice with the various corridors.
Even the wannabe Nobel Peace Prize winner hasn't the influence to change the facts on the ground. Note where the water for is.
That’s a very misleading chart by combining settlers, military, state land and roads. Presumably if it were an independent homeland the military state and transport infrastructure would belong to the new state not Israel
The areas in white are where the IDF are in control. Those roads and other infrastructure are for the use of the Israeli military and settlers only. Palestinians are not allowed.
Its a slow but inexorable strangulation and encroachment of Area B.
But yes, you are right. For the West Bank to become a viable state +/- Gaza and East Jerusalem the Israeli military and settlers need to go. I can't see that happening.
Not least because the Israeli military and settlers were removed from Gaza in 2005.
For which Israel received neither thanks nor security.
I'm not sure why the Israelis should be thanked for ceasing to occupy someone else's country.
The 'someone else' being at war with Israel and committed to destroying Israel.
And Israel being at war with "someone else" and committed to occupying their country and establishing settlers on it.
Which ended in 2005 when Israel withdrew its military and settlers from Gaza.
Now which side started the current war ? Did Israel attack Gaza or did Gaza attack Israel ?
You would be on more reasonable ground to complain about Israel's behaviour in the West Bank or its treatment of its own Palestinian population than how it acted towards Gaza between 2005 and 2023.
Gaza is part of Palestine, which the Israelis are still occupying.
Yes Hamas started the current war. The argument is about the Israelis' conduct in responding to it.
So the part of Palestine which Israel is occupying didn't attack Israel but the part of Palestine which Israel wasn't occupying did attack Israel.
Do you see why withdrawing from more of Palestine isn't going to be accepted by the Israelis ?
As to how Israel has responded - blockading food supplies, destruction of urban areas, military occupation, ethnic cleansing - how does that differ to what British strategy was to Germany in the world wars ?
Maybe I'm in a minority of one but I don't join the self-righteous condemnation of Israel for doing what we applaud ourselves for doing a few generations back.
Isn't it because of the horrors of the 2 world wars that we banned mass reprisals, carpet bombing of civilians and starvation as weapons of war?
Did we ? And if we did, did we ever mean it in anything other than self-righteousness ?
You'll remember that we also had/have huge numbers of nuclear weapons ready to do vastly more destruction than happened in either world war.
Countries will fight with whatever means possible if they're in an existential war.
Israel believes it is such a war now just as we did in the world wars.
We've forgotten that and what we did because the wars we've engaged in since have not been existential.
Israel is not in an existential war. Were Israel in an existential war, they wouldn't have opened new fronts in Syria, Iran and Yemen! Israel is militarily dominant and its government is using that dominance to annex territory and delay Netanyahu's criminal trial.
Very easy to say that from the safety of your keyboard.
Now consider how Israelis might see it.
Part of an ethnic group against which genocide has been attempted and 'surrounded' as they see it by Iran and its proxies which openly say that they will destroy Israel.
That the war has gone well for Israel in many aspects does not mean they don't see it as existential.
Certainly there was no shortage of predictions in October 2023 that Israel wouldn't be able to fight a multi-front war.
Lets talk about the West Bank and how it could serve as a homeland. Here is the actual amount of land available to the Palestinians in comparison to that available to settlers and the IDF. It's been sliced and diced by roads between settlements that disrupt life there and kettles the population. Gaza is now being prepared for the same slice and dice with the various corridors.
Even the wannabe Nobel Peace Prize winner hasn't the influence to change the facts on the ground. Note where the water for is.
That’s a very misleading chart by combining settlers, military, state land and roads. Presumably if it were an independent homeland the military state and transport infrastructure would belong to the new state not Israel
The areas in white are where the IDF are in control. Those roads and other infrastructure are for the use of the Israeli military and settlers only. Palestinians are not allowed.
Its a slow but inexorable strangulation and encroachment of Area B.
But yes, you are right. For the West Bank to become a viable state +/- Gaza and East Jerusalem the Israeli military and settlers need to go. I can't see that happening.
Not least because the Israeli military and settlers were removed from Gaza in 2005.
For which Israel received neither thanks nor security.
I'm not sure why the Israelis should be thanked for ceasing to occupy someone else's country.
The 'someone else' being at war with Israel and committed to destroying Israel.
And Israel being at war with "someone else" and committed to occupying their country and establishing settlers on it.
Which ended in 2005 when Israel withdrew its military and settlers from Gaza.
Now which side started the current war ? Did Israel attack Gaza or did Gaza attack Israel ?
You would be on more reasonable ground to complain about Israel's behaviour in the West Bank or its treatment of its own Palestinian population than how it acted towards Gaza between 2005 and 2023.
Gaza is part of Palestine, which the Israelis are still occupying.
Yes Hamas started the current war. The argument is about the Israelis' conduct in responding to it.
Yes true.
Potted history:
Israel's view - they left Gaza completely to see if the Palestinians could live peacefully alongside Israel. At the time there were great investment plans (eg for the port) and billions committed to the regeneration of Gaza. Then, on account of the corruption of the PA, the Palestinians voted in Hamas and the rest is history.
Palestinian view - Israel continues to occupy Palestine which comprises Gaza and the West Bank (and arguably the bit in between) and it is only via armed struggle that Israel agreed to leave Gaza and therefore the struggle continues.
That is yer problem right there.
Does the violence cause the occupation or the occupation cause the violence.
Israel ceasing to occupy Gaza was the test case for this.
The occupation ended, the violence increased.
Would we prefer the West Bank to be more like Gaza?
Would a normal Israeli voter even see that as a serious question?
The occupation of Gaza ended, but Gaza was not free, able to operate like a normal country. It was blockaded, with Israel often controlling the borders and utilities.
Lets talk about the West Bank and how it could serve as a homeland. Here is the actual amount of land available to the Palestinians in comparison to that available to settlers and the IDF. It's been sliced and diced by roads between settlements that disrupt life there and kettles the population. Gaza is now being prepared for the same slice and dice with the various corridors.
Even the wannabe Nobel Peace Prize winner hasn't the influence to change the facts on the ground. Note where the water for is.
That’s a very misleading chart by combining settlers, military, state land and roads. Presumably if it were an independent homeland the military state and transport infrastructure would belong to the new state not Israel
The areas in white are where the IDF are in control. Those roads and other infrastructure are for the use of the Israeli military and settlers only. Palestinians are not allowed.
Its a slow but inexorable strangulation and encroachment of Area B.
But yes, you are right. For the West Bank to become a viable state +/- Gaza and East Jerusalem the Israeli military and settlers need to go. I can't see that happening.
Not least because the Israeli military and settlers were removed from Gaza in 2005.
For which Israel received neither thanks nor security.
I'm not sure why the Israelis should be thanked for ceasing to occupy someone else's country.
The 'someone else' being at war with Israel and committed to destroying Israel.
And Israel being at war with "someone else" and committed to occupying their country and establishing settlers on it.
Which ended in 2005 when Israel withdrew its military and settlers from Gaza.
Now which side started the current war ? Did Israel attack Gaza or did Gaza attack Israel ?
You would be on more reasonable ground to complain about Israel's behaviour in the West Bank or its treatment of its own Palestinian population than how it acted towards Gaza between 2005 and 2023.
Gaza is part of Palestine, which the Israelis are still occupying.
Yes Hamas started the current war. The argument is about the Israelis' conduct in responding to it.
Yes true.
Potted history:
Israel's view - they left Gaza completely to see if the Palestinians could live peacefully alongside Israel. At the time there were great investment plans (eg for the port) and billions committed to the regeneration of Gaza. Then, on account of the corruption of the PA, the Palestinians voted in Hamas and the rest is history.
Palestinian view - Israel continues to occupy Palestine which comprises Gaza and the West Bank (and arguably the bit in between) and it is only via armed struggle that Israel agreed to leave Gaza and therefore the struggle continues.
That is yer problem right there.
Does the violence cause the occupation or the occupation cause the violence.
Israel ceasing to occupy Gaza was the test case for this.
The occupation ended, the violence increased.
Would we prefer the West Bank to be more like Gaza?
Would a normal Israeli voter even see that as a serious question?
The occupation of Gaza ended, but Gaza was not free, able to operate like a normal country. It was blockaded, with Israel often controlling the borders and utilities.
Only after they elected a group dedicated to Israel's destruction.
And yes, I have to believe that Israelis believe they are in an existential war.
Classic western bien pensant view to say what's all the fuss about because you are nowhere near that and you have never been in a position whereby you fear for your life on a daily basis.
"Second-largest population increase in England and Wales in over 75 years - mainly fuelled by migration It is the second-largest numerical jump since at least 1949, when comparable data began, and has largely been fuelled by international migration."
Not much concern then for demographic collapse as long as we can continue to bring people into the country.
Trouble is, if you reduced that 690,000 or so to just, well, zero, 10,000, 50,000 or whatever you'd end up looking at significant demographic changes over time.
That's not logical. How can importing 1.5 million over two years (mid-22 to mid-24) doesn't cause a significant demographic change, but importing 50,000 in a future year does?
We've been talking in our rarified other-worldly corner of the bar about population changes caused by declines in fertility and replacement rates and as that report suggests, take out arrivals from immigration and you'd have seen a net population rise of about 18,000 which is minimal and the trend would, absent immigration, be for the population to begin to fall with all the attendant demographic impacts.
IF we are importing 690,000 new people a year, it would seem likely those concerns would be eased as the immigrants would marry, have children and ensure the population continues to increase.
Those advocating a severe reduction in immigration (call it net zero if you want) against the background of falling fertility rates have to understand the medium to long term demographic implications of such a policy and we are indeed now seeing suggstions women should be encouraged to have children via tax incentives.
England actually pick a bowling attack for the 5th test. Well, except Joakes
"England captain Ben Stokes has been ruled out of the fifth Test against India, which starts at The Oval on Thursday, because of a shoulder injury.
Ollie Pope will lead the side in Stokes' absence while Jacob Bethell will bat at number six.
There are also three changes to the bowling line-up with quicks Jofra Archer and Brydon Carse, who has played all four Tests so far, also missing out alongside spinner Liam Dawson.
Seamers Gus Atkinson, Josh Tongue and Jamie Overton are included while Chris Woakes retains his place.
England XI for fifth Test v India: Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Ollie Pope (captain), Joe Root, Harry Brook, Jacob Bethell, Jamie Smith (wicketkeeper), Chris Woakes, Gus Atkinson, Jamie Overton, Josh Tongue."
Lets talk about the West Bank and how it could serve as a homeland. Here is the actual amount of land available to the Palestinians in comparison to that available to settlers and the IDF. It's been sliced and diced by roads between settlements that disrupt life there and kettles the population. Gaza is now being prepared for the same slice and dice with the various corridors.
Even the wannabe Nobel Peace Prize winner hasn't the influence to change the facts on the ground. Note where the water for is.
That’s a very misleading chart by combining settlers, military, state land and roads. Presumably if it were an independent homeland the military state and transport infrastructure would belong to the new state not Israel
The areas in white are where the IDF are in control. Those roads and other infrastructure are for the use of the Israeli military and settlers only. Palestinians are not allowed.
Its a slow but inexorable strangulation and encroachment of Area B.
But yes, you are right. For the West Bank to become a viable state +/- Gaza and East Jerusalem the Israeli military and settlers need to go. I can't see that happening.
Not least because the Israeli military and settlers were removed from Gaza in 2005.
For which Israel received neither thanks nor security.
I'm not sure why the Israelis should be thanked for ceasing to occupy someone else's country.
The 'someone else' being at war with Israel and committed to destroying Israel.
And Israel being at war with "someone else" and committed to occupying their country and establishing settlers on it.
Which ended in 2005 when Israel withdrew its military and settlers from Gaza.
Now which side started the current war ? Did Israel attack Gaza or did Gaza attack Israel ?
You would be on more reasonable ground to complain about Israel's behaviour in the West Bank or its treatment of its own Palestinian population than how it acted towards Gaza between 2005 and 2023.
Gaza is part of Palestine, which the Israelis are still occupying.
Yes Hamas started the current war. The argument is about the Israelis' conduct in responding to it.
So the part of Palestine which Israel is occupying didn't attack Israel but the part of Palestine which Israel wasn't occupying did attack Israel.
Do you see why withdrawing from more of Palestine isn't going to be accepted by the Israelis ?
As to how Israel has responded - blockading food supplies, destruction of urban areas, military occupation, ethnic cleansing - how does that differ to what British strategy was to Germany in the world wars ?
Maybe I'm in a minority of one but I don't join the self-righteous condemnation of Israel for doing what we applaud ourselves for doing a few generations back.
Isn't it because of the horrors of the 2 world wars that we banned mass reprisals, carpet bombing of civilians and starvation as weapons of war?
Did we ? And if we did, did we ever mean it in anything other than self-righteousness ?
You'll remember that we also had/have huge numbers of nuclear weapons ready to do vastly more destruction than happened in either world war.
Countries will fight with whatever means possible if they're in an existential war.
Israel believes it is such a war now just as we did in the world wars.
We've forgotten that and what we did because the wars we've engaged in since have not been existential.
Israel is not in an existential war. Were Israel in an existential war, they wouldn't have opened new fronts in Syria, Iran and Yemen! Israel is militarily dominant and its government is using that dominance to annex territory and delay Netanyahu's criminal trial.
Very easy to say that from the safety of your keyboard.
Now consider how Israelis might see it.
Part of an ethnic group against which genocide has been attempted and 'surrounded' as they see it by Iran and its proxies which openly say that they will destroy Israel.
That the war has gone well for Israel in many aspects does not mean they don't see it as existential.
Certainly there was no shortage of predictions in October 2023 that Israel wouldn't be able to fight a multi-front war.
Syria has a new government that was making peaceful overtures to Israel. Israel bombed them and then invaded. They have claimed the invasion is to protect the Druze minority in Syria. This is not consistent with an image of Israel fighting an existential war.
How do Israelis see it? Polling support for Bibi's government has collapsed. Israelis are often less keen on Netanyahu's actions than his supporters here on PB.
England actually pick a bowling attack for the 5th test. Well, except Joakes
Wokes has a fantastic record in home tests. The conditions this year have not favoured his style of bowling (and wouldn't have favoured Jimmy Anderson).
Lets talk about the West Bank and how it could serve as a homeland. Here is the actual amount of land available to the Palestinians in comparison to that available to settlers and the IDF. It's been sliced and diced by roads between settlements that disrupt life there and kettles the population. Gaza is now being prepared for the same slice and dice with the various corridors.
Even the wannabe Nobel Peace Prize winner hasn't the influence to change the facts on the ground. Note where the water for is.
That’s a very misleading chart by combining settlers, military, state land and roads. Presumably if it were an independent homeland the military state and transport infrastructure would belong to the new state not Israel
The areas in white are where the IDF are in control. Those roads and other infrastructure are for the use of the Israeli military and settlers only. Palestinians are not allowed.
Its a slow but inexorable strangulation and encroachment of Area B.
But yes, you are right. For the West Bank to become a viable state +/- Gaza and East Jerusalem the Israeli military and settlers need to go. I can't see that happening.
Not least because the Israeli military and settlers were removed from Gaza in 2005.
For which Israel received neither thanks nor security.
I'm not sure why the Israelis should be thanked for ceasing to occupy someone else's country.
The 'someone else' being at war with Israel and committed to destroying Israel.
And Israel being at war with "someone else" and committed to occupying their country and establishing settlers on it.
Which ended in 2005 when Israel withdrew its military and settlers from Gaza.
Now which side started the current war ? Did Israel attack Gaza or did Gaza attack Israel ?
You would be on more reasonable ground to complain about Israel's behaviour in the West Bank or its treatment of its own Palestinian population than how it acted towards Gaza between 2005 and 2023.
Gaza is part of Palestine, which the Israelis are still occupying.
Yes Hamas started the current war. The argument is about the Israelis' conduct in responding to it.
Yes true.
Potted history:
Israel's view - they left Gaza completely to see if the Palestinians could live peacefully alongside Israel. At the time there were great investment plans (eg for the port) and billions committed to the regeneration of Gaza. Then, on account of the corruption of the PA, the Palestinians voted in Hamas and the rest is history.
Palestinian view - Israel continues to occupy Palestine which comprises Gaza and the West Bank (and arguably the bit in between) and it is only via armed struggle that Israel agreed to leave Gaza and therefore the struggle continues.
That is yer problem right there.
Does the violence cause the occupation or the occupation cause the violence.
But the trouble is that is to look at the crisis in isolation. Hamas is sponsored by Qatar who we gleefully buy gas from (unlike Russia) and are used by Iran as part of their plan to destroy Israel by a thousand cuts.
You know who else sponsored Hamas?
Israel.
Oh gawd we've been through this. Netanyahu The West hosed money at Hamas Netanyahu because he thought that if they were getting money they wouldn't cause any problems. Not the best political call you might say but it was far from support. It was trying to buy friends. And boy did it not work.
One interesting thing in this poll is that the youngsters are the least likely to say "don't know". That is very unusual for opinion polling.
Gaza is a big thing for young voters. It was a major part of why neither of my boys would vote Labour last year.
Too late for Starmer to get them onside. As ever he does too little too late.
The extent to which Israel/Palestine dominates left discourse in this country when other foreign conflicts with far greater death tolls & distribution of misery are completely ignored has always depressed me. Why this conflict in particular?
For the umpteenth time, because Israel wants to be accounted as part of the civilised(sic) West. The Rapid Support Forces aren’t demanding to be on Eurovision and the Lord’s Resistance Army don’t have a seat at the UN.
Despite all the piteous cries of ‘what about Sudan’ I’ve yet to see much actual discussion of it here at all, let alone interesting or insightful comments.
I have a Sudanes colleague. Her extended family have nearly all left Khartoum for relative safety elsewhere, mostly internally displaced.
She says their is no ideological or religious doctrine separating the factions, just different bands of warlords fighting over the spoils. So far as I I can see that is pretty much it.
Amused to see that the football hooligan who calls himself Tommy Robinson is under license, so upon his return to the UK it very much looks like he will be returning to His Majesty´s custody for quite some time. I do not know why certain media people keep focussing on this dimwitted lout, I guess its another concocted story, like the lies constantly being told about the crime rate.
Woakes, Atkinson, Overton, Tongue...when that ball gets a bit old nobody is going to be worried.
What does Chris Woakes have to do to get dropped?
I really don't understand the thinking. He is 105 years old, now bowling pretty slowly and he is rubbish away from England so won't be going to Australia. England need the next generation of bowlers.
"Second-largest population increase in England and Wales in over 75 years - mainly fuelled by migration It is the second-largest numerical jump since at least 1949, when comparable data began, and has largely been fuelled by international migration."
The figures are only up to June 2024, net migration to the UK halved by the end of 2024 due to the tigher visa wage requirements and restrictions on dependents being brought in Sunak and Cleverly introduced https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cr4zzvq2p33t
England actually pick a bowling attack for the 5th test. Well, except Joakes
Wokes has a fantastic record in home tests. The conditions this year have not favoured his style of bowling (and wouldn't have favoured Jimmy Anderson).
The other problem is he is regularly sending them down at sub 80. To international level batsman it just isn't fast enough to really trouble them, especially once they have got set.
"Second-largest population increase in England and Wales in over 75 years - mainly fuelled by migration It is the second-largest numerical jump since at least 1949, when comparable data began, and has largely been fuelled by international migration."
Not much concern then for demographic collapse as long as we can continue to bring people into the country.
Trouble is, if you reduced that 690,000 or so to just, well, zero, 10,000, 50,000 or whatever you'd end up looking at significant demographic changes over time.
That's not logical. How can importing 1.5 million over two years (mid-22 to mid-24) doesn't cause a significant demographic change, but importing 50,000 in a future year does?
We've been talking in our rarified other-worldly corner of the bar about population changes caused by declines in fertility and replacement rates and as that report suggests, take out arrivals from immigration and you'd have seen a net population rise of about 18,000 which is minimal and the trend would, absent immigration, be for the population to begin to fall with all the attendant demographic impacts.
IF we are importing 690,000 new people a year, it would seem likely those concerns would be eased as the immigrants would marry, have children and ensure the population continues to increase.
Those advocating a severe reduction in immigration (call it net zero if you want) against the background of falling fertility rates have to understand the medium to long term demographic implications of such a policy and we are indeed now seeing suggstions women should be encouraged to have children via tax incentives.
A fair point but there is a threshold problem. How many inward migrants need there be to cure the demographic problem? I would suggest that 1.5 million over two years exceeds that threshold.
"Second-largest population increase in England and Wales in over 75 years - mainly fuelled by migration It is the second-largest numerical jump since at least 1949, when comparable data began, and has largely been fuelled by international migration."
Not much concern then for demographic collapse as long as we can continue to bring people into the country.
Trouble is, if you reduced that 690,000 or so to just, well, zero, 10,000, 50,000 or whatever you'd end up looking at significant demographic changes over time.
That's not logical. How can importing 1.5 million over two years (mid-22 to mid-24) doesn't cause a significant demographic change, but importing 50,000 in a future year does?
We've been talking in our rarified other-worldly corner of the bar about population changes caused by declines in fertility and replacement rates and as that report suggests, take out arrivals from immigration and you'd have seen a net population rise of about 18,000 which is minimal and the trend would, absent immigration, be for the population to begin to fall with all the attendant demographic impacts.
IF we are importing 690,000 new people a year, it would seem likely those concerns would be eased as the immigrants would marry, have children and ensure the population continues to increase.
Those advocating a severe reduction in immigration (call it net zero if you want) against the background of falling fertility rates have to understand the medium to long term demographic implications of such a policy and we are indeed now seeing suggstions women should be encouraged to have children via tax incentives.
China is now giving parents $1500 for each child under 3
England actually pick a bowling attack for the 5th test. Well, except Joakes
Wokes has a fantastic record in home tests. The conditions this year have not favoured his style of bowling (and wouldn't have favoured Jimmy Anderson).
Hes got a pretty good home record, but hes also 36 and not Jimmy Anderson. He should be nowhere near the England set up anymore
Israelis Unsure Current Military Operation Will Bring the Hostages Home or Topple Hamas
48% of Jews do not think that the operation will lead to the return of the hostages, and 50% of Arab Israelis share this assessment. 50% of Jews also do not think that the operation will lead to an end of Hamas’s rule. Among Arabs, 41% do not believe that the operation will result in the defeat of Hamas.
A Large Majority of Israelis Support Proceeding to the Second Stage of the Ceasefire Agreement
More Israelis (43%) think Hamas' interests have been served better in the first stage of the ceasefire agreement than Israel's (21%); however, a majority still supports proceeding to the next stage (70%) if the first stage is completed as agreed
It's a change graph. For net inward migration to be falling, it would have to be below the x-axis (the horizontal line). It's not falling, it's just not going up as fast.
Lets talk about the West Bank and how it could serve as a homeland. Here is the actual amount of land available to the Palestinians in comparison to that available to settlers and the IDF. It's been sliced and diced by roads between settlements that disrupt life there and kettles the population. Gaza is now being prepared for the same slice and dice with the various corridors.
Even the wannabe Nobel Peace Prize winner hasn't the influence to change the facts on the ground. Note where the water for is.
That’s a very misleading chart by combining settlers, military, state land and roads. Presumably if it were an independent homeland the military state and transport infrastructure would belong to the new state not Israel
The areas in white are where the IDF are in control. Those roads and other infrastructure are for the use of the Israeli military and settlers only. Palestinians are not allowed.
Its a slow but inexorable strangulation and encroachment of Area B.
But yes, you are right. For the West Bank to become a viable state +/- Gaza and East Jerusalem the Israeli military and settlers need to go. I can't see that happening.
Not least because the Israeli military and settlers were removed from Gaza in 2005.
For which Israel received neither thanks nor security.
I'm not sure why the Israelis should be thanked for ceasing to occupy someone else's country.
The 'someone else' being at war with Israel and committed to destroying Israel.
And Israel being at war with "someone else" and committed to occupying their country and establishing settlers on it.
Which ended in 2005 when Israel withdrew its military and settlers from Gaza.
Now which side started the current war ? Did Israel attack Gaza or did Gaza attack Israel ?
You would be on more reasonable ground to complain about Israel's behaviour in the West Bank or its treatment of its own Palestinian population than how it acted towards Gaza between 2005 and 2023.
Gaza is part of Palestine, which the Israelis are still occupying.
Yes Hamas started the current war. The argument is about the Israelis' conduct in responding to it.
So the part of Palestine which Israel is occupying didn't attack Israel but the part of Palestine which Israel wasn't occupying did attack Israel.
Do you see why withdrawing from more of Palestine isn't going to be accepted by the Israelis ?
As to how Israel has responded - blockading food supplies, destruction of urban areas, military occupation, ethnic cleansing - how does that differ to what British strategy was to Germany in the world wars ?
Maybe I'm in a minority of one but I don't join the self-righteous condemnation of Israel for doing what we applaud ourselves for doing a few generations back.
Isn't it because of the horrors of the 2 world wars that we banned mass reprisals, carpet bombing of civilians and starvation as weapons of war?
Did we ? And if we did, did we ever mean it in anything other than self-righteousness ?
You'll remember that we also had/have huge numbers of nuclear weapons ready to do vastly more destruction than happened in either world war.
Countries will fight with whatever means possible if they're in an existential war.
Israel believes it is such a war now just as we did in the world wars.
We've forgotten that and what we did because the wars we've engaged in since have not been existential.
Israel is not in an existential war. Were Israel in an existential war, they wouldn't have opened new fronts in Syria, Iran and Yemen! Israel is militarily dominant and its government is using that dominance to annex territory and delay Netanyahu's criminal trial.
Very easy to say that from the safety of your keyboard.
Now consider how Israelis might see it.
Part of an ethnic group against which genocide has been attempted and 'surrounded' as they see it by Iran and its proxies which openly say that they will destroy Israel.
That the war has gone well for Israel in many aspects does not mean they don't see it as existential.
Certainly there was no shortage of predictions in October 2023 that Israel wouldn't be able to fight a multi-front war.
Syria has a new government that was making peaceful overtures to Israel. Israel bombed them and then invaded. They have claimed the invasion is to protect the Druze minority in Syria. This is not consistent with an image of Israel fighting an existential war.
How do Israelis see it? Polling support for Bibi's government has collapsed. Israelis are often less keen on Netanyahu's actions than his supporters here on PB.
I've never said I support Netanyahu I have just commented on the "Netanyahu supported Hamas" thing.
Lets talk about the West Bank and how it could serve as a homeland. Here is the actual amount of land available to the Palestinians in comparison to that available to settlers and the IDF. It's been sliced and diced by roads between settlements that disrupt life there and kettles the population. Gaza is now being prepared for the same slice and dice with the various corridors.
Even the wannabe Nobel Peace Prize winner hasn't the influence to change the facts on the ground. Note where the water for is.
That’s a very misleading chart by combining settlers, military, state land and roads. Presumably if it were an independent homeland the military state and transport infrastructure would belong to the new state not Israel
The areas in white are where the IDF are in control. Those roads and other infrastructure are for the use of the Israeli military and settlers only. Palestinians are not allowed.
Its a slow but inexorable strangulation and encroachment of Area B.
But yes, you are right. For the West Bank to become a viable state +/- Gaza and East Jerusalem the Israeli military and settlers need to go. I can't see that happening.
Not least because the Israeli military and settlers were removed from Gaza in 2005.
For which Israel received neither thanks nor security.
I'm not sure why the Israelis should be thanked for ceasing to occupy someone else's country.
The 'someone else' being at war with Israel and committed to destroying Israel.
And Israel being at war with "someone else" and committed to occupying their country and establishing settlers on it.
Which ended in 2005 when Israel withdrew its military and settlers from Gaza.
Now which side started the current war ? Did Israel attack Gaza or did Gaza attack Israel ?
You would be on more reasonable ground to complain about Israel's behaviour in the West Bank or its treatment of its own Palestinian population than how it acted towards Gaza between 2005 and 2023.
Gaza is part of Palestine, which the Israelis are still occupying.
Yes Hamas started the current war. The argument is about the Israelis' conduct in responding to it.
So the part of Palestine which Israel is occupying didn't attack Israel but the part of Palestine which Israel wasn't occupying did attack Israel.
Do you see why withdrawing from more of Palestine isn't going to be accepted by the Israelis ?
As to how Israel has responded - blockading food supplies, destruction of urban areas, military occupation, ethnic cleansing - how does that differ to what British strategy was to Germany in the world wars ?
Maybe I'm in a minority of one but I don't join the self-righteous condemnation of Israel for doing what we applaud ourselves for doing a few generations back.
Isn't it because of the horrors of the 2 world wars that we banned mass reprisals, carpet bombing of civilians and starvation as weapons of war?
I suspect we would do all those things again, if we faced an existential struggle like WWII, and considered them necessary.
We have not faced an existential war since 1945.
But, whilst I have little doubt that Hamas would like to carry out genocide, their threat level is a couple of orders of magnitude less than that of the Nazis.
Reform voters the main outlier in still rejecting a Palestinian state while most of the other main parties back recognition of it, especially Green, Labour and LD voters.
Four out of five permanent UN Security Council members would also likely back it as would the UN General Assembly but the US would again likely veto it
If the Democrats win the midterms next year and a Democrat wins the White House in 2028 it is possible at that point the US would no longer veto recognition of a Palestinian state.
One interesting thing in this poll is that the youngsters are the least likely to say "don't know". That is very unusual for opinion polling.
Gaza is a big thing for young voters. It was a major part of why neither of my boys would vote Labour last year.
Too late for Starmer to get them onside. As ever he does too little too late.
The extent to which Israel/Palestine dominates left discourse in this country when other foreign conflicts with far greater death tolls & distribution of misery are completely ignored has always depressed me. Why this conflict in particular?
For the umpteenth time, because Israel wants to be accounted as part of the civilised(sic) West. The Rapid Support Forces aren’t demanding to be on Eurovision and the Lord’s Resistance Army don’t have a seat at the UN.
Despite all the piteous cries of ‘what about Sudan’ I’ve yet to see much actual discussion of it here at all, let alone interesting or insightful comments.
I have a Sudanes colleague. Her extended family have nearly all left Khartoum for relative safety elsewhere, mostly internally displaced.
She says their is no ideological or religious doctrine separating the factions, just different bands of warlords fighting over the spoils. So far as I I can see that is pretty much it.
Yes, it shows there can be horrible wars without any obvious religious, tribal, ideological or historical causes. Perhaps depressingly there isn’t much interesting to be said about the war in Sudan, apart from men can be beasts without any encouragement.
Looks like there's going to be some rain around the Test, combined with the fact India have pissed the groundsman off so he'll be preparing the biggest road since the M1 I expect. Bumrah out, England's aforementioned bowling attack & long tail. Looks like a draw to me tbh.
One interesting thing in this poll is that the youngsters are the least likely to say "don't know". That is very unusual for opinion polling.
Gaza is a big thing for young voters. It was a major part of why neither of my boys would vote Labour last year.
Too late for Starmer to get them onside. As ever he does too little too late.
The extent to which Israel/Palestine dominates left discourse in this country when other foreign conflicts with far greater death tolls & distribution of misery are completely ignored has always depressed me. Why this conflict in particular?
For the umpteenth time, because Israel wants to be accounted as part of the civilised(sic) West. The Rapid Support Forces aren’t demanding to be on Eurovision and the Lord’s Resistance Army don’t have a seat at the UN.
Despite all the piteous cries of ‘what about Sudan’ I’ve yet to see much actual discussion of it here at all, let alone interesting or insightful comments.
Unintentionally funniest potd.
"Israel wants [my emphasis] to be accounted as part of the civilised(sic) West".
The civilised(sic) West that has for the past 100 years invaded, colonised, discriminated, inflicted, marginalised, exploited and much else many of those not in the West, you mean?
I think Israel wants to hold itself to higher standards than that.
England actually pick a bowling attack for the 5th test. Well, except Joakes
"England captain Ben Stokes has been ruled out of the fifth Test against India, which starts at The Oval on Thursday, because of a shoulder injury.
Ollie Pope will lead the side in Stokes' absence while Jacob Bethell will bat at number six.
There are also three changes to the bowling line-up with quicks Jofra Archer and Brydon Carse, who has played all four Tests so far, also missing out alongside spinner Liam Dawson.
Seamers Gus Atkinson, Josh Tongue and Jamie Overton are included while Chris Woakes retains his place.
England XI for fifth Test v India: Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Ollie Pope (captain), Joe Root, Harry Brook, Jacob Bethell, Jamie Smith (wicketkeeper), Chris Woakes, Gus Atkinson, Jamie Overton, Josh Tongue."
Xbox accounts are supposed to need verification as well.
I think this is going to piss off an absolutely enormous number of people in time. Age verfication may have some merits, but the approach taken is about as bad as it can get. i.e. Every site has to do it separately, there is no standaridisation or regulation of verifiers, and there is massive overreach. It's been done so badly you have to wonder if it was deliberate.
The implication that Labour won the seat at the second attempt partly by being more like Reform on immigration is uncomfortable.
Labour are not in tune with voters on migration, neither are the other main parties.
They don’t have to be like Reform, they just need to act and do stuff rather than just more empty talk.
The problem for Reform is a) they don't have any coherent, workable, legal and above all inexpensive solutions to the "boats" or indeed to the whole immigration question (true, no one else does) and b) the rest of their policy programme is so riddled with inconsistencies and misconceptions it will fall apart quicker than some beautifully cooked roast lamb on a Sunday.
Currently (and they have time), Reform's campaign will disintegrate quicker than the Conservative campaign last year based on what they are saying.
Put them in charge of anything (such as a county council), and you quickly discover a) they haven't got a clue and b) the assumptions and pledges about waste they made to get elected are incorrect.
So a bit like the national govt then. It’s typical of most politicians. Say what you need to in order to win and hope by the next election it’s all forgotten. However come 2029 they will have the benefit of a councillor base in key winnable seats but the disadvantage of a record to defend?
I don’t think they need coherent policies at the moment. But they will in the run up to the election. What they need now is to start fleshing out policies. I seriously thought of voting for them in the local elections but didn’t and nothing I’ve seen since told me I made the wrong decision.
I think the main issue for them is getting candidate selection correct.
They seem to make policies up as they go along. A bit like the Lib Dem’s do.
One interesting thing in this poll is that the youngsters are the least likely to say "don't know". That is very unusual for opinion polling.
Gaza is a big thing for young voters. It was a major part of why neither of my boys would vote Labour last year.
Too late for Starmer to get them onside. As ever he does too little too late.
The extent to which Israel/Palestine dominates left discourse in this country when other foreign conflicts with far greater death tolls & distribution of misery are completely ignored has always depressed me. Why this conflict in particular?
That is a good question without clear answers. Possible partial reasons include Britain's historical connection to the area (compared to, say, DRC); the greater ease with which Western journalists can report on this conflict (compared to, say, DRC); and the degree to which the Left sees Israel/Palestine as a colonial conflict between colonisers and colonised (compared to, say, DRC).
It’s not just the UK - it dominates the discourse across western Europe & in the USA. Perhaps for the same reasons though.
Well there is already a site serving pictures or your MP to use with verification. Judging by comments I've seen Keir Starmer probably now has more accounts on porn sites than anyone else in Britain.
One interesting thing in this poll is that the youngsters are the least likely to say "don't know". That is very unusual for opinion polling.
Gaza is a big thing for young voters. It was a major part of why neither of my boys would vote Labour last year.
Too late for Starmer to get them onside. As ever he does too little too late.
The extent to which Israel/Palestine dominates left discourse in this country when other foreign conflicts with far greater death tolls & distribution of misery are completely ignored has always depressed me. Why this conflict in particular?
Because the left see white as the bad guys and black/brown as the good guys? Israel/Palestine fits that view. Ukraine/Russia doesn’t, because it’s white v white.
Post-colonial discourse prioritises between conquerors and imperialists.
My conquering, slave-taking ancestors were bearers of civilisation. Yours were brutal barbarians. So, you get Caliphs, and African Kings praised for their enlightened statesmanship, and religious tolerance, despite building their empires and kingdoms on slave-taking.
Xbox accounts are supposed to need verification as well.
I think this is going to piss off an absolutely enormous number of people in time. Age verfication may have some merits, but the approach taken is about as bad as it can get. i.e. Every site has to do it separately, there is no standaridisation or regulation of verifiers, and there is massive overreach. It's been done so badly you have to wonder if it was deliberate.
I’m told OFCOM itself hates the entire thing & would rather it go away. IIRC it’s the Parliamentary cttee that’s been pushing hard for a maximalist interpretation of the law (which was already very authoritarian).
Well there is already a site serving pictures or your MP to use with verification. Judging by comments I've seen Keir Starmer probably now has more accounts on porn sites than anyone else in Britain.
I understood that the verification process involves passports and/or moving images. How to spoof that?
I've no idea if the announcement makes much sense (certainly Heidi Alexander couldn't make that clear during the stream of waffle she deployed on Today this morning), but the critics don't seem to have much of a case either - simultaneously calling it an outrage and a meaningless gesture.
It's a meaningless gesture (not least with all the caveats involved) but it's hard to see how anyone who is not Netanyahu or Ben-Gvir could call it 'outrageous.'
One interesting thing in this poll is that the youngsters are the least likely to say "don't know". That is very unusual for opinion polling.
Gaza is a big thing for young voters. It was a major part of why neither of my boys would vote Labour last year.
Too late for Starmer to get them onside. As ever he does too little too late.
The extent to which Israel/Palestine dominates left discourse in this country when other foreign conflicts with far greater death tolls & distribution of misery are completely ignored has always depressed me. Why this conflict in particular?
For the umpteenth time, because Israel wants to be accounted as part of the civilised(sic) West. The Rapid Support Forces aren’t demanding to be on Eurovision and the Lord’s Resistance Army don’t have a seat at the UN.
Despite all the piteous cries of ‘what about Sudan’ I’ve yet to see much actual discussion of it here at all, let alone interesting or insightful comments.
Unintentionally funniest potd.
"Israel wants [my emphasis] to be accounted as part of the civilised(sic) West".
The civilised(sic) West that has for the past 100 years invaded, colonised, discriminated, inflicted, marginalised, exploited and much else many of those not in the West, you mean?
I think Israel wants to hold itself to higher standards than that.
There is without doubt, a great deal of hypocrisy, when it comes to international affairs. We happily supported the Nigerian government in the 1960's, and the Saudis today, when they used starvation as a weapon of war.
Reform voters the main outlier in still rejecting a Palestinian state while most of the other main parties back recognition of it, especially Green, Labour and LD voters.
Four out of five permanent UN Security Council members would also likely back it as would the UN General Assembly but the US would again likely veto it
Apart from @Leon , I’m not aware of any posters supporting Reform. Yet they consistently poll around 30%. Do we have a cohort of shy Reformers who are pretending still to be Conservatives, whilst agreeing with the views of Reform voters?
Reform voters the main outlier in still rejecting a Palestinian state while most of the other main parties back recognition of it, especially Green, Labour and LD voters.
Four out of five permanent UN Security Council members would also likely back it as would the UN General Assembly but the US would again likely veto it
Apart from @Leon , I’m not aware of any posters supporting Reform. Yet they consistently poll around 30%. Do we have a cohort of shy Reformers who are pretending still to be Conservatives, whilst agreeing with the views of Reform voters?
PB doesn't however have many low IQ regulars
Pagan was leaning Reform I believe too before his ban.
According to the latest Yougov poll Reform are on 36% with working class C2DE voters but just 25% with middle class ABC1 voters, which suggests PB does not have many working class posters
Well there is already a site serving pictures or your MP to use with verification. Judging by comments I've seen Keir Starmer probably now has more accounts on porn sites than anyone else in Britain.
I understood that the verification process involves passports and/or moving images. How to spoof that?
I've read that some game engine features, character photo modes where you can pose the character, are beating the liveness checks, but there are verifiers that are being spoofed by downloaded images of ID documents. So it will depend on the site. Of course this is why standardisation is needed, we should not even allow easily spoofed verification services.
If anyone from the Labour Party is reading this, halt the OSA ASAP, it is going to blow up in your face. It needs a complete rethink and a lot of work with platform owners like Apple, Google, and Microsoft to make verification secure, private, and easy. It can be done, but what you have now is a ticking bomb.
It's a change graph. For net inward migration to be falling, it would have to be below the x-axis (the horizontal line). It's not falling, it's just not going up as fast.
That would be the second derivative. Your graph is the first derivative. Net inward migration is falling, but it is still above zero.
I think you are overstating what Spotify are saying there.
"If you cannot confirm you’re old enough to use Spotify, your account will be deactivated and eventually deleted."
Not sure how it's possible to misinterpret that. They are commendably clear about the process.
When will I use the age check? You may be presented with an age check when you try to access certain age restricted content, like music videos tagged 18+.
Tap Continue and follow the on screen steps to do the age check.
How does the age check work? Some users will be asked to perform an age check when accessing certain age restricted content. You can do this by going through our facial age check. If this shows inaccurate results, you can always correct that with an ID verification.
That doesn't sound like they're requiring it for everyone.
Well there is already a site serving pictures or your MP to use with verification. Judging by comments I've seen Keir Starmer probably now has more accounts on porn sites than anyone else in Britain.
I understood that the verification process involves passports and/or moving images. How to spoof that?
I've read that some game engine features, character photo modes where you can pose the character, are beating the liveness checks, but there are verifiers that are being spoofed by downloaded images of ID documents. So it will depend on the site. Of course this is why standardisation is needed, we should not even allow easily spoofed verification services.
If anyone from the Labour Party is reading this, halt the OSA ASAP, it is going to blow up in your face. It needs a complete rethink and a lot of work with platform owners like Apple, Google, and Microsoft to make verification secure, private, and easy. It can be done, but what you have now is a ticking bomb.
Of course there are numerous video generation AI models that can take an input photo and create short animated sequences. So you can you use a text to image generator to first create your "character" (and there are ways now to ensure it stays consistent) and then use video generation tool to animated it.
The implication that Labour won the seat at the second attempt partly by being more like Reform on immigration is uncomfortable.
Labour are not in tune with voters on migration, neither are the other main parties.
They don’t have to be like Reform, they just need to act and do stuff rather than just more empty talk.
The problem for Reform is a) they don't have any coherent, workable, legal and above all inexpensive solutions to the "boats" or indeed to the whole immigration question (true, no one else does) and b) the rest of their policy programme is so riddled with inconsistencies and misconceptions it will fall apart quicker than some beautifully cooked roast lamb on a Sunday.
Currently (and they have time), Reform's campaign will disintegrate quicker than the Conservative campaign last year based on what they are saying.
Put them in charge of anything (such as a county council), and you quickly discover a) they haven't got a clue and b) the assumptions and pledges about waste they made to get elected are incorrect.
So a bit like the national govt then. It’s typical of most politicians. Say what you need to in order to win and hope by the next election it’s all forgotten. However come 2029 they will have the benefit of a councillor base in key winnable seats but the disadvantage of a record to defend?
I don’t think they need coherent policies at the moment. But they will in the run up to the election. What they need now is to start fleshing out policies. I seriously thought of voting for them in the local elections but didn’t and nothing I’ve seen since told me I made the wrong decision.
I think the main issue for them is getting candidate selection correct.
They seem to make policies up as they go along. A bit like the Lib Dem’s do.
Reform certainly need to think long and hard about what they would do in government, for public opinion shifts fast thee days. Up until May, I doubt if anyone in Reform would even have considered that they might actually be forming a government, in 2029.
In response to the question upthread, they have an outside chance of winning Luton South, whereas the Conservatives have none. If that remains the case, in 2029, I will most likely vote for them,
The implication that Labour won the seat at the second attempt partly by being more like Reform on immigration is uncomfortable.
Labour are not in tune with voters on migration, neither are the other main parties.
They don’t have to be like Reform, they just need to act and do stuff rather than just more empty talk.
This short excerpt statement interests me, @NickPalmer :
Another local Labour source said some voters admitted backing Reform at county level had been a protest. Investing time in listening and repeat visits to those “willing to listen, but who need convincing” were crucial. “Minds were not set. I’d be concerned if people weren’t listening, but lots are. We can still have conversations.”
It started with an explicit listening exercise before the campaign began. Voter priorities quickly became explicit Labour priorities. “The biggest things that came out were asylum hotels, antisocial behaviour and parking.
“So those three went on the leaflet. We just went to voters where they were at, and focused relentlessly on those issues.”
2 - How to oppose Reform? RefUK cannot compete on achievements, as they have no achievements (yet - maybe, see Kent CC), so they campaign on scary rhetoric and seeking to silo their voters into not listening to anybody else (ie "set their minds".)
Here in Ashfield, Lee Anderson can't campaign on asylum hotels because there aren't any, so in June 2024 he invented one out of thin air, and posted about to thousands on Facebook. It was actually NHS international nurses on holiday. He could have had one of his 5 office staff ring up to check, but being competent and honest would not have met his aims.
That's the Nigel Farage playbook on Epping. Put out a blatant lie * about "police bussing in Anfifa" to rile his supporters. Leave it there, and issue a notpology when they are good and riled up.
Pochin seems currently to be the most blatant.
* You can argue Farage made a mistake; I think it more likely he knows exactly what he is doing.
3. Parking is interesting in Stevenage as an issue. It was built with an off road travel network in 196x, but it was on a "get them out of our way" basis, and not well-maintained as per UK practice - build and forget, no routine, no long-term money. They have potential to fix that parking problem, perhaps by PSPO as they a Borough.
Reform voters the main outlier in still rejecting a Palestinian state while most of the other main parties back recognition of it, especially Green, Labour and LD voters.
Four out of five permanent UN Security Council members would also likely back it as would the UN General Assembly but the US would again likely veto it
Apart from @Leon , I’m not aware of any posters supporting Reform. Yet they consistently poll around 30%. Do we have a cohort of shy Reformers who are pretending still to be Conservatives, whilst agreeing with the views of Reform voters?
PB doesn't however have many low IQ regulars
No, but it does have plenty of condescending twats who look down on people who dare to vote Reform.
One interesting thing in this poll is that the youngsters are the least likely to say "don't know". That is very unusual for opinion polling.
Gaza is a big thing for young voters. It was a major part of why neither of my boys would vote Labour last year.
Too late for Starmer to get them onside. As ever he does too little too late.
The extent to which Israel/Palestine dominates left discourse in this country when other foreign conflicts with far greater death tolls & distribution of misery are completely ignored has always depressed me. Why this conflict in particular?
For the umpteenth time, because Israel wants to be accounted as part of the civilised(sic) West. The Rapid Support Forces aren’t demanding to be on Eurovision and the Lord’s Resistance Army don’t have a seat at the UN.
Despite all the piteous cries of ‘what about Sudan’ I’ve yet to see much actual discussion of it here at all, let alone interesting or insightful comments.
Unintentionally funniest potd.
"Israel wants [my emphasis] to be accounted as part of the civilised(sic) West".
The civilised(sic) West that has for the past 100 years invaded, colonised, discriminated, inflicted, marginalised, exploited and much else many of those not in the West, you mean?
I think Israel wants to hold itself to higher standards than that.
Thanks for taking time off from waving your stick and bellowing ‘WHITE SAVIOUR COMPLEX!!!’ at a video (Betamax of course) of Band Aid, grandad.
One interesting thing in this poll is that the youngsters are the least likely to say "don't know". That is very unusual for opinion polling.
Gaza is a big thing for young voters. It was a major part of why neither of my boys would vote Labour last year.
Too late for Starmer to get them onside. As ever he does too little too late.
The extent to which Israel/Palestine dominates left discourse in this country when other foreign conflicts with far greater death tolls & distribution of misery are completely ignored has always depressed me. Why this conflict in particular?
For the umpteenth time, because Israel wants to be accounted as part of the civilised(sic) West. The Rapid Support Forces aren’t demanding to be on Eurovision and the Lord’s Resistance Army don’t have a seat at the UN.
Despite all the piteous cries of ‘what about Sudan’ I’ve yet to see much actual discussion of it here at all, let alone interesting or insightful comments.
Unintentionally funniest potd.
"Israel wants [my emphasis] to be accounted as part of the civilised(sic) West".
The civilised(sic) West that has for the past 100 years invaded, colonised, discriminated, inflicted, marginalised, exploited and much else many of those not in the West, you mean?
I think Israel wants to hold itself to higher standards than that.
About these higher standards ...Hope they will reject support like this.
In May, Rep Fine suggested nuking Gaza like the U.S. did to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He argued that the nuclear attacks on Japan resulted in an “unconditional surrender” and that the “same” needs to happen with Gaza.
Lets talk about the West Bank and how it could serve as a homeland. Here is the actual amount of land available to the Palestinians in comparison to that available to settlers and the IDF. It's been sliced and diced by roads between settlements that disrupt life there and kettles the population. Gaza is now being prepared for the same slice and dice with the various corridors.
Even the wannabe Nobel Peace Prize winner hasn't the influence to change the facts on the ground. Note where the water for is.
That’s a very misleading chart by combining settlers, military, state land and roads. Presumably if it were an independent homeland the military state and transport infrastructure would belong to the new state not Israel
The areas in white are where the IDF are in control. Those roads and other infrastructure are for the use of the Israeli military and settlers only. Palestinians are not allowed.
Its a slow but inexorable strangulation and encroachment of Area B.
But yes, you are right. For the West Bank to become a viable state +/- Gaza and East Jerusalem the Israeli military and settlers need to go. I can't see that happening.
Not least because the Israeli military and settlers were removed from Gaza in 2005.
For which Israel received neither thanks nor security.
I'm not sure why the Israelis should be thanked for ceasing to occupy someone else's country.
The 'someone else' being at war with Israel and committed to destroying Israel.
And Israel being at war with "someone else" and committed to occupying their country and establishing settlers on it.
Which ended in 2005 when Israel withdrew its military and settlers from Gaza.
Now which side started the current war ? Did Israel attack Gaza or did Gaza attack Israel ?
You would be on more reasonable ground to complain about Israel's behaviour in the West Bank or its treatment of its own Palestinian population than how it acted towards Gaza between 2005 and 2023.
Gaza is part of Palestine, which the Israelis are still occupying.
Yes Hamas started the current war. The argument is about the Israelis' conduct in responding to it.
So the part of Palestine which Israel is occupying didn't attack Israel but the part of Palestine which Israel wasn't occupying did attack Israel.
Do you see why withdrawing from more of Palestine isn't going to be accepted by the Israelis ?
As to how Israel has responded - blockading food supplies, destruction of urban areas, military occupation, ethnic cleansing - how does that differ to what British strategy was to Germany in the world wars ?
Maybe I'm in a minority of one but I don't join the self-righteous condemnation of Israel for doing what we applaud ourselves for doing a few generations back.
Isn't it because of the horrors of the 2 world wars that we banned mass reprisals, carpet bombing of civilians and starvation as weapons of war?
Did we ? And if we did, did we ever mean it in anything other than self-righteousness ?
You'll remember that we also had/have huge numbers of nuclear weapons ready to do vastly more destruction than happened in either world war.
Countries will fight with whatever means possible if they're in an existential war.
Israel believes it is such a war now just as we did in the world wars.
We've forgotten that and what we did because the wars we've engaged in since have not been existential.
Israel is not in an existential war. Were Israel in an existential war, they wouldn't have opened new fronts in Syria, Iran and Yemen! Israel is militarily dominant and its government is using that dominance to annex territory and delay Netanyahu's criminal trial.
Very easy to say that from the safety of your keyboard.
Now consider how Israelis might see it.
Part of an ethnic group against which genocide has been attempted and 'surrounded' as they see it by Iran and its proxies which openly say that they will destroy Israel.
That the war has gone well for Israel in many aspects does not mean they don't see it as existential.
Certainly there was no shortage of predictions in October 2023 that Israel wouldn't be able to fight a multi-front war.
Syria has a new government that was making peaceful overtures to Israel. Israel bombed them and then invaded. They have claimed the invasion is to protect the Druze minority in Syria. This is not consistent with an image of Israel fighting an existential war.
How do Israelis see it? Polling support for Bibi's government has collapsed. Israelis are often less keen on Netanyahu's actions than his supporters here on PB.
Syria has a new government led by proscribed, Islamist terrorists.
Your pretensions they're all soft and cuddly do you no favours, you live in delusions we don't have to join.
I really don’t think the government understands just how effectively the OSA ensures that there will never be a UK internet company going forwards. Only the large, established social media companies can possibly afford to navigate the quagmire of regulations that have been published by OFCOM, where failure to comply comes with fines that could reach 10% of global turnover the imprisonment of executives.
X, Google & Facebook et al have the resources to navigate this towering pile of legalese. No startup company could possibly manage it - to pay a lawyer to review a company’s obligations will cost tens of thousands of pounds, given the size of the regulations. It’s madness. No thought has been given to making the regulations navigable by SMEs whatsoever.
A Balfour declaration for our times. A homeland for the Palestinian people.
Yes, thank god for Britain and France finally stepping up to the plate to sort out borders and states hashed together by the stupid, er, British and French.
To be fair, trying to draw borders in a land where ethnic/religious nationalism haven’t been the deciding factors for centuries, then suddenly are the deciding factor is pretty much.
A nasty thought - the main reason that Europe has stable borders is mad ethnic cleansing, first one way, then the other, followed by half a century of two nuclear armed super states telling everyone “that’s how it is”.
The unpleasant truth is that ethnic cleansing works, when it comes to settling borders.
If I was in a dispute with you, killing you would work when it comes to settling that dispute. It would still be wrong. We should not countenance crimes against humanity like ethnic cleansing and genocide. There are alternatives possible.
We accepted ethnic cleansing in Nagorno-Karabakh in September 2023.
In December 2023, EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell stated: "Look for example at what has happened in Azerbaijan and Armenia. A long-frozen conflict that suddenly has been – I would not say solved – but decisively determined by a military intervention that, in one week, made 150,000 people move. In one week. Like this. 150,000 people had to abandon their houses and run. And the international community regretted [it], expressed concern, sent humanitarian support, but it happened [with] the use of force."
We did, and we shouldn't have.
What should the UK have done? Fight fucking Azerbaijan (backed by Israel and Turkey)? Strongly worded WhatsApp?
One interesting thing in this poll is that the youngsters are the least likely to say "don't know". That is very unusual for opinion polling.
Gaza is a big thing for young voters. It was a major part of why neither of my boys would vote Labour last year.
Too late for Starmer to get them onside. As ever he does too little too late.
The extent to which Israel/Palestine dominates left discourse in this country when other foreign conflicts with far greater death tolls & distribution of misery are completely ignored has always depressed me. Why this conflict in particular?
For the umpteenth time, because Israel wants to be accounted as part of the civilised(sic) West. The Rapid Support Forces aren’t demanding to be on Eurovision and the Lord’s Resistance Army don’t have a seat at the UN.
Despite all the piteous cries of ‘what about Sudan’ I’ve yet to see much actual discussion of it here at all, let alone interesting or insightful comments.
Unintentionally funniest potd.
"Israel wants [my emphasis] to be accounted as part of the civilised(sic) West".
The civilised(sic) West that has for the past 100 years invaded, colonised, discriminated, inflicted, marginalised, exploited and much else many of those not in the West, you mean?
I think Israel wants to hold itself to higher standards than that.
Interesting thought on the Allison Pearson Telegraph piece thread.
Lucy Connolly should stand as a Reform candidate for Parliament.
I don't know - could she?
(The thread is really quite rabid. They do NOT like being told that Allison Pearson is a fantasist who needs to do some homework.)
No. Legislation brought in after Bobby Sands got elected in the 1980s prevents the incarcerated from standing.
Yes, but she'll be out by 2028. Full sentence was just over 3 years, so even the whole sentence will be done.
Is a previous jail sentence an inhibition? I'm not sure.
There was an online petition to make it so in 2015, but it received TWO signatures.
Surely there were cases in NI of released IRA and other (IVF) previously imprisoned people standing? Wasn't Jerry Adams in the Long Kesh around 1972, but I'm not sure if that was a criminal conviction?
UVF not IVF
The latter is just inconceivable.
Yes - but it's interesting. IVF was largely Conservative Evangelical and politically probably quietist / small c conservative; I have met some remarkable people from the follow-on UCCF.
But some people of similar doctrinal stripe in eg NI, were quite willing to embrace violence. There was always a desgree of Arminian/Calvinist tension, but they navigated that successively.
That's one obvious difference with the current USA tradition, whether MAGA or Reformed Evangelicals (Calvinist mainly - equivalent to eg Strict Baptists or Open Brethren here), who often have an unapologetic callousness which is absent from that movement in the UK. Even now, some take a hard line on 'moral' questions, but it has been gradually liberalising for more than half a century.
Politically I think this is one reason why American style Nat Cons, and our self-dubbed "Patriots" on the Right will have quite a job appropriating the "Christian" identity in the UK, as their latest identity-skin to steal.
I wish there was an emoji to demonstrate when an awesome and subtle pun is being made for those who miss it...
Well there is already a site serving pictures or your MP to use with verification. Judging by comments I've seen Keir Starmer probably now has more accounts on porn sites than anyone else in Britain.
I understood that the verification process involves passports and/or moving images. How to spoof that?
I've read that some game engine features, character photo modes where you can pose the character, are beating the liveness checks, but there are verifiers that are being spoofed by downloaded images of ID documents. So it will depend on the site. Of course this is why standardisation is needed, we should not even allow easily spoofed verification services.
If anyone from the Labour Party is reading this, halt the OSA ASAP, it is going to blow up in your face. It needs a complete rethink and a lot of work with platform owners like Apple, Google, and Microsoft to make verification secure, private, and easy. It can be done, but what you have now is a ticking bomb.
Of course there are numerous video generation AI models that can take an input photo and create short animated sequences. So you can you use a text to image generator to first create your "character" (and there are ways now to ensure it stays consistent) and then use video generation tool to animated it.
Yes, and even if these checks work today, they might not work next year, realtime video synthesis with pose capture and relighting might enable essentially anbody to pass an estimated age and liveness check.
I don't know what advice Parliament or Ofcom got on this issue, but either it wasn't any good of they decided to ignore it.
One interesting thing in this poll is that the youngsters are the least likely to say "don't know". That is very unusual for opinion polling.
Gaza is a big thing for young voters. It was a major part of why neither of my boys would vote Labour last year.
Too late for Starmer to get them onside. As ever he does too little too late.
The extent to which Israel/Palestine dominates left discourse in this country when other foreign conflicts with far greater death tolls & distribution of misery are completely ignored has always depressed me. Why this conflict in particular?
It's the Old Firm match of Internet arguments and everyone has a side. Eg I like Hamas, Barty Bobs has a steaming hard-on for the Zionist Entity. The formulaic structure of the discussion is reassuringly familiar too, like the plot of a Bond film.
A Balfour declaration for our times. A homeland for the Palestinian people.
Yes, thank god for Britain and France finally stepping up to the plate to sort out borders and states hashed together by the stupid, er, British and French.
To be fair, trying to draw borders in a land where ethnic/religious nationalism haven’t been the deciding factors for centuries, then suddenly are the deciding factor is pretty much.
A nasty thought - the main reason that Europe has stable borders is mad ethnic cleansing, first one way, then the other, followed by half a century of two nuclear armed super states telling everyone “that’s how it is”.
The unpleasant truth is that ethnic cleansing works, when it comes to settling borders.
If I was in a dispute with you, killing you would work when it comes to settling that dispute. It would still be wrong. We should not countenance crimes against humanity like ethnic cleansing and genocide. There are alternatives possible.
We accepted ethnic cleansing in Nagorno-Karabakh in September 2023.
In December 2023, EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell stated: "Look for example at what has happened in Azerbaijan and Armenia. A long-frozen conflict that suddenly has been – I would not say solved – but decisively determined by a military intervention that, in one week, made 150,000 people move. In one week. Like this. 150,000 people had to abandon their houses and run. And the international community regretted [it], expressed concern, sent humanitarian support, but it happened [with] the use of force."
We did, and we shouldn't have.
What should the UK have done? Fight fucking Azerbaijan (backed by Israel and Turkey)? Strongly worded WhatsApp?
I'm torn between the latter two, but obviously think the nation should have called on your experience in either case.
Well there is already a site serving pictures or your MP to use with verification. Judging by comments I've seen Keir Starmer probably now has more accounts on porn sites than anyone else in Britain.
I understood that the verification process involves passports and/or moving images. How to spoof that?
I've read that some game engine features, character photo modes where you can pose the character, are beating the liveness checks, but there are verifiers that are being spoofed by downloaded images of ID documents. So it will depend on the site. Of course this is why standardisation is needed, we should not even allow easily spoofed verification services.
If anyone from the Labour Party is reading this, halt the OSA ASAP, it is going to blow up in your face. It needs a complete rethink and a lot of work with platform owners like Apple, Google, and Microsoft to make verification secure, private, and easy. It can be done, but what you have now is a ticking bomb.
Of course there are numerous video generation AI models that can take an input photo and create short animated sequences. So you can you use a text to image generator to first create your "character" (and there are ways now to ensure it stays consistent) and then use video generation tool to animated it.
Yes, and even if these checks work today, they might not work next year, realtime video synthesis with pose capture and relighting might enable essentially anbody to pass an estimated age and liveness check.
I don't know what advice Parliament or Ofcom got on this issue, but either it wasn't any good of they decided to ignore it.
Funnily enough one of the worlds leading company in digital double creation is British (at least for now). Synthesia. Its actually a British tech success story (if we ignore the initial research comes from a Spaniard (at UCL), a German) is already a unicorn and a profitable one.
A Balfour declaration for our times. A homeland for the Palestinian people.
Yes, thank god for Britain and France finally stepping up to the plate to sort out borders and states hashed together by the stupid, er, British and French.
To be fair, trying to draw borders in a land where ethnic/religious nationalism haven’t been the deciding factors for centuries, then suddenly are the deciding factor is pretty much.
A nasty thought - the main reason that Europe has stable borders is mad ethnic cleansing, first one way, then the other, followed by half a century of two nuclear armed super states telling everyone “that’s how it is”.
The unpleasant truth is that ethnic cleansing works, when it comes to settling borders.
If I was in a dispute with you, killing you would work when it comes to settling that dispute. It would still be wrong. We should not countenance crimes against humanity like ethnic cleansing and genocide. There are alternatives possible.
We accepted ethnic cleansing in Nagorno-Karabakh in September 2023.
In December 2023, EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell stated: "Look for example at what has happened in Azerbaijan and Armenia. A long-frozen conflict that suddenly has been – I would not say solved – but decisively determined by a military intervention that, in one week, made 150,000 people move. In one week. Like this. 150,000 people had to abandon their houses and run. And the international community regretted [it], expressed concern, sent humanitarian support, but it happened [with] the use of force."
We did, and we shouldn't have.
What should the UK have done? Fight fucking Azerbaijan (backed by Israel and Turkey)? Strongly worded WhatsApp?
Is that entirely different from asking the same about Gaza ?
Admittedly we still have a small degree of influence with the US, which in turn has a fair amount of influence with Israel (or would if it chose to exercise it),
Interesting thought on the Allison Pearson Telegraph piece thread.
Lucy Connolly should stand as a Reform candidate for Parliament.
I don't know - could she?
(The thread is really quite rabid. They do NOT like being told that Allison Pearson is a fantasist who needs to do some homework.)
No. Legislation brought in after Bobby Sands got elected in the 1980s prevents the incarcerated from standing.
Yes, but she'll be out by 2028. Full sentence was just over 3 years, so even the whole sentence will be done.
Is a previous jail sentence an inhibition? I'm not sure.
There was an online petition to make it so in 2015, but it received TWO signatures.
Surely there were cases in NI of released IRA and other (IVF) previously imprisoned people standing? Wasn't Jerry Adams in the Long Kesh around 1972, but I'm not sure if that was a criminal conviction?
UVF not IVF
The latter is just inconceivable.
Yes - but it's interesting. IVF was largely Conservative Evangelical and politically probably quietist / small c conservative; I have met some remarkable people from the follow-on UCCF.
But some people of similar doctrinal stripe in eg NI, were quite willing to embrace violence. There was always a desgree of Arminian/Calvinist tension, but they navigated that successively.
That's one obvious difference with the current USA tradition, whether MAGA or Reformed Evangelicals (Calvinist mainly - equivalent to eg Strict Baptists or Open Brethren here), who often have an unapologetic callousness which is absent from that movement in the UK. Even now, some take a hard line on 'moral' questions, but it has been gradually liberalising for more than half a century.
Politically I think this is one reason why American style Nat Cons, and our self-dubbed "Patriots" on the Right will have quite a job appropriating the "Christian" identity in the UK, as their latest identity-skin to steal.
I wish there was an emoji to demonstrate when an awesome and subtle pun is being made for those who miss it...
Lets talk about the West Bank and how it could serve as a homeland. Here is the actual amount of land available to the Palestinians in comparison to that available to settlers and the IDF. It's been sliced and diced by roads between settlements that disrupt life there and kettles the population. Gaza is now being prepared for the same slice and dice with the various corridors.
Even the wannabe Nobel Peace Prize winner hasn't the influence to change the facts on the ground. Note where the water for is.
That’s a very misleading chart by combining settlers, military, state land and roads. Presumably if it were an independent homeland the military state and transport infrastructure would belong to the new state not Israel
The areas in white are where the IDF are in control. Those roads and other infrastructure are for the use of the Israeli military and settlers only. Palestinians are not allowed.
Its a slow but inexorable strangulation and encroachment of Area B.
But yes, you are right. For the West Bank to become a viable state +/- Gaza and East Jerusalem the Israeli military and settlers need to go. I can't see that happening.
Not least because the Israeli military and settlers were removed from Gaza in 2005.
For which Israel received neither thanks nor security.
I'm not sure why the Israelis should be thanked for ceasing to occupy someone else's country.
The 'someone else' being at war with Israel and committed to destroying Israel.
And Israel being at war with "someone else" and committed to occupying their country and establishing settlers on it.
Which ended in 2005 when Israel withdrew its military and settlers from Gaza.
Now which side started the current war ? Did Israel attack Gaza or did Gaza attack Israel ?
You would be on more reasonable ground to complain about Israel's behaviour in the West Bank or its treatment of its own Palestinian population than how it acted towards Gaza between 2005 and 2023.
Gaza is part of Palestine, which the Israelis are still occupying.
Yes Hamas started the current war. The argument is about the Israelis' conduct in responding to it.
Yes true.
Potted history:
Israel's view - they left Gaza completely to see if the Palestinians could live peacefully alongside Israel. At the time there were great investment plans (eg for the port) and billions committed to the regeneration of Gaza. Then, on account of the corruption of the PA, the Palestinians voted in Hamas and the rest is history.
Palestinian view - Israel continues to occupy Palestine which comprises Gaza and the West Bank (and arguably the bit in between) and it is only via armed struggle that Israel agreed to leave Gaza and therefore the struggle continues.
That is yer problem right there.
Does the violence cause the occupation or the occupation cause the violence.
But the trouble is that is to look at the crisis in isolation. Hamas is sponsored by Qatar who we gleefully buy gas from (unlike Russia) and are used by Iran as part of their plan to destroy Israel by a thousand cuts.
You know who else sponsored Hamas?
Israel.
Oh gawd we've been through this. Netanyahu hosed money at Hamas because he thought that if they were getting money they wouldn't cause any problems. Not the best political call you might say but it was far from support. It was trying to buy friends. And boy did it not work.
Has Netanyahu made any good political calls? He doesn't seem interested in the hostages.
Lots of them, but all for his own career rather than for Israel.
For example, calling for the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, which, when it happened, helped catapult him to power was politically astute as a career move but demonstrated what an utter shit he is.
Farage under investigation by Standards commissioner over 'registration of an interest'
Oh god, just what we need now, some Trump-style martyrdom to give him a further boost.
He is such a grasping skilamalink, it was inevitable he'd come a cropper once he was an MP. Remember "Farage Gin" or his mad gold trading thing aimed at the over 90s?
Well there is already a site serving pictures or your MP to use with verification. Judging by comments I've seen Keir Starmer probably now has more accounts on porn sites than anyone else in Britain.
I understood that the verification process involves passports and/or moving images. How to spoof that?
I've read that some game engine features, character photo modes where you can pose the character, are beating the liveness checks, but there are verifiers that are being spoofed by downloaded images of ID documents. So it will depend on the site. Of course this is why standardisation is needed, we should not even allow easily spoofed verification services.
If anyone from the Labour Party is reading this, halt the OSA ASAP, it is going to blow up in your face. It needs a complete rethink and a lot of work with platform owners like Apple, Google, and Microsoft to make verification secure, private, and easy. It can be done, but what you have now is a ticking bomb.
Of course there are numerous video generation AI models that can take an input photo and create short animated sequences. So you can you use a text to image generator to first create your "character" (and there are ways now to ensure it stays consistent) and then use video generation tool to animated it.
Yes, and even if these checks work today, they might not work next year, realtime video synthesis with pose capture and relighting might enable essentially anbody to pass an estimated age and liveness check.
I don't know what advice Parliament or Ofcom got on this issue, but either it wasn't any good of they decided to ignore it.
Funnily enough one of the worlds leading company in digital double creation is British (at least for now). Synthesia. Its actually a British success story, if we ignore the initial research comes from a Spaniard (at UCL), a German....
Yep pretty soon we won't be able to trust audio, images, or video at all. It could be anybody or nobody.
It's going to be a huge problem, beyond daft implementations of age verification.
Interesting thought on the Allison Pearson Telegraph piece thread.
Lucy Connolly should stand as a Reform candidate for Parliament.
I don't know - could she?
(The thread is really quite rabid. They do NOT like being told that Allison Pearson is a fantasist who needs to do some homework.)
No. Legislation brought in after Bobby Sands got elected in the 1980s prevents the incarcerated from standing.
Yes, but she'll be out by 2028. Full sentence was just over 3 years, so even the whole sentence will be done.
Is a previous jail sentence an inhibition? I'm not sure.
There was an online petition to make it so in 2015, but it received TWO signatures.
Surely there were cases in NI of released IRA and other (IVF) previously imprisoned people standing? Wasn't Jerry Adams in the Long Kesh around 1972, but I'm not sure if that was a criminal conviction?
UVF not IVF
The latter is just inconceivable.
Yes - but it's interesting. IVF was largely Conservative Evangelical and politically probably quietist / small c conservative; I have met some remarkable people from the follow-on UCCF.
But some people of similar doctrinal stripe in eg NI, were quite willing to embrace violence. There was always a desgree of Arminian/Calvinist tension, but they navigated that successively.
That's one obvious difference with the current USA tradition, whether MAGA or Reformed Evangelicals (Calvinist mainly - equivalent to eg Strict Baptists or Open Brethren here), who often have an unapologetic callousness which is absent from that movement in the UK. Even now, some take a hard line on 'moral' questions, but it has been gradually liberalising for more than half a century.
Politically I think this is one reason why American style Nat Cons, and our self-dubbed "Patriots" on the Right will have quite a job appropriating the "Christian" identity in the UK, as their latest identity-skin to steal.
Most UK evangelicals are also anti gay marriage and anti abortion
Possibly true as a snapshot but not that relevant to my point; attitudes are liberalising over time - mainly by individuals actually getting to know same sex couples.
As a couple of examples, how many Evangelicals take a "James Anderton" position compared to 1987, and how many Pentecostals are still dealing with homosexuality by attempting to exorcise it?
England actually pick a bowling attack for the 5th test. Well, except Joakes
Liam Dawson got to feel hard done by. First test after 8 years, immediately dropped.
The last test proved why he wasn’t picked for 8 years.
I like Jacob Bethell, but at the moment, I don't think his left armers are going to give India sleepless nights either.
A Test at the Oval and only two part-timer spinners, one of whom is rawer than steak tartare?
That's nuts.
If they didn't want Dawson at least recall Leach, or Hartley, or Ahmed (and Ahmed let us not forget is also developing into an excellent top-order batsman).
One interesting thing in this poll is that the youngsters are the least likely to say "don't know". That is very unusual for opinion polling.
Gaza is a big thing for young voters. It was a major part of why neither of my boys would vote Labour last year.
Too late for Starmer to get them onside. As ever he does too little too late.
The extent to which Israel/Palestine dominates left discourse in this country when other foreign conflicts with far greater death tolls & distribution of misery are completely ignored has always depressed me. Why this conflict in particular?
It's the Old Firm match of Internet arguments and everyone has a side. Eg I like Hamas, Barty Bobs has a steaming hard-on for the Zionist Entity. The formulaic structure of the discussion is reassuringly familiar too, like the plot of a Bond film.
Takes me back to CiF.
Although your post is a bit Stockholm-ish. First you bomb the fuck out of them now you love them.
Interesting thought on the Allison Pearson Telegraph piece thread.
Lucy Connolly should stand as a Reform candidate for Parliament.
I don't know - could she?
(The thread is really quite rabid. They do NOT like being told that Allison Pearson is a fantasist who needs to do some homework.)
No. Legislation brought in after Bobby Sands got elected in the 1980s prevents the incarcerated from standing.
Yes, but she'll be out by 2028. Full sentence was just over 3 years, so even the whole sentence will be done.
Is a previous jail sentence an inhibition? I'm not sure.
There was an online petition to make it so in 2015, but it received TWO signatures.
Surely there were cases in NI of released IRA and other (IVF) previously imprisoned people standing? Wasn't Jerry Adams in the Long Kesh around 1972, but I'm not sure if that was a criminal conviction?
UVF not IVF
The latter is just inconceivable.
Yes - but it's interesting. IVF was largely Conservative Evangelical and politically probably quietist / small c conservative; I have met some remarkable people from the follow-on UCCF.
But some people of similar doctrinal stripe in eg NI, were quite willing to embrace violence. There was always a desgree of Arminian/Calvinist tension, but they navigated that successively.
That's one obvious difference with the current USA tradition, whether MAGA or Reformed Evangelicals (Calvinist mainly - equivalent to eg Strict Baptists or Open Brethren here), who often have an unapologetic callousness which is absent from that movement in the UK. Even now, some take a hard line on 'moral' questions, but it has been gradually liberalising for more than half a century.
Politically I think this is one reason why American style Nat Cons, and our self-dubbed "Patriots" on the Right will have quite a job appropriating the "Christian" identity in the UK, as their latest identity-skin to steal.
Most UK evangelicals are also anti gay marriage and anti abortion
Possibly true as a snapshot but not that relevant to my point; attitudes are liberalising over time - mainly by individuals actually getting to know same sex couples.
As a couple of examples, how many Evangelicals take a "James Anderton" position compared to 1987, and how many Pentecostals are still dealing with homosexuality by attempting to exorcise it?
I'm not familiar with the James Anderton position, but it sounds kinky.
Lets talk about the West Bank and how it could serve as a homeland. Here is the actual amount of land available to the Palestinians in comparison to that available to settlers and the IDF. It's been sliced and diced by roads between settlements that disrupt life there and kettles the population. Gaza is now being prepared for the same slice and dice with the various corridors.
Even the wannabe Nobel Peace Prize winner hasn't the influence to change the facts on the ground. Note where the water for is.
Israel doesn’t want a 2 state solution. The US currently supports Israel.
Nothing else really is of any consequence here.
The Palestinians don't want a 2-state solution either.
Most Palestinians want a 2-state solution. That's the stated aim of the Palestinian Authority.
The PA is not Hamas, who 'run' Gaza.
I'm unsure how the events of October 2023 were meant to bring about a two-state solution.
There is a diversity of Palestinian views. As I said, most Palestinians want a 2-state solution. Palestine was split between the larger West Bank under the Palestinian Authority, seeking a 2-state solution, and the smaller Gaza under Hamas, and even Hamas's position had been in favour of a 2-state solution (as with their 2017 charter). Hamas chose a different path in 2023. Their actions constitute war crimes.
Coming up to the present, Hamas do not run Gaza. The Israeli Defense Forces run Gaza, by and large.
And there are a diversity of views in Israel, as well.
Palestine was politically 'split' by Palestinians themselves, in 2007, with the aftermath of the elections between Hamas and Fatah and the associated blood-letting. Over 600 Palestinians died after the 2006 election, and many more since.
If Hamas do not run Gaza, as you suppose, then why are they in any position to negotiate with anyone? In reality, they have controlled the population and organisations through violence, crime and terror for a couple of decades now. And that's a big problem.
Interesting thought on the Allison Pearson Telegraph piece thread.
Lucy Connolly should stand as a Reform candidate for Parliament.
I don't know - could she?
(The thread is really quite rabid. They do NOT like being told that Allison Pearson is a fantasist who needs to do some homework.)
No. Legislation brought in after Bobby Sands got elected in the 1980s prevents the incarcerated from standing.
Yes, but she'll be out by 2028. Full sentence was just over 3 years, so even the whole sentence will be done.
Is a previous jail sentence an inhibition? I'm not sure.
There was an online petition to make it so in 2015, but it received TWO signatures.
Surely there were cases in NI of released IRA and other (IVF) previously imprisoned people standing? Wasn't Jerry Adams in the Long Kesh around 1972, but I'm not sure if that was a criminal conviction?
UVF not IVF
The latter is just inconceivable.
Yes - but it's interesting. IVF was largely Conservative Evangelical and politically probably quietist / small c conservative; I have met some remarkable people from the follow-on UCCF.
But some people of similar doctrinal stripe in eg NI, were quite willing to embrace violence. There was always a desgree of Arminian/Calvinist tension, but they navigated that successively.
That's one obvious difference with the current USA tradition, whether MAGA or Reformed Evangelicals (Calvinist mainly - equivalent to eg Strict Baptists or Open Brethren here), who often have an unapologetic callousness which is absent from that movement in the UK. Even now, some take a hard line on 'moral' questions, but it has been gradually liberalising for more than half a century.
Politically I think this is one reason why American style Nat Cons, and our self-dubbed "Patriots" on the Right will have quite a job appropriating the "Christian" identity in the UK, as their latest identity-skin to steal.
Most UK evangelicals are also anti gay marriage and anti abortion
Possibly true as a snapshot but not that relevant to my point; attitudes are liberalising over time - mainly by individuals actually getting to know same sex couples.
As a couple of examples, how many Evangelicals take a "James Anderton" position compared to 1987, and how many Pentecostals are still dealing with homosexuality by attempting to exorcise it?
'Since 2022 Baptist Union Council has been considering a request from LGBT+ ministers and their allies that the rules for Baptist Ministers be changed so that entering a same-sex marriage would no longer be considered ‘gross misconduct’. On 20th March, the motion was overwhelmingly rejected, meaning that the denomination has actively chosen to continue down a route of discrimination, inequality and exclusion.' https://www.movement.org.uk/blog/response-baptist-union-council-decision-lgbtq-ministers
Reform supporters are probably underrepresented on PB.
I don't know about that, there's Leon, LadyG, Bryonic ...
LuckyGuy backs Badenoch and Jenrick, he is a rightwing Tory but might go Reform if Kemi was ousted and replaced as Conservative leader by Cleverly or Stride
Reform supporters are probably underrepresented on PB.
That is because it is a rare good source of news and political opinion without extreme bias. If more people had a regular diet of such news charlatan politicians would fare less well.
Interesting thought on the Allison Pearson Telegraph piece thread.
Lucy Connolly should stand as a Reform candidate for Parliament.
I don't know - could she?
(The thread is really quite rabid. They do NOT like being told that Allison Pearson is a fantasist who needs to do some homework.)
No. Legislation brought in after Bobby Sands got elected in the 1980s prevents the incarcerated from standing.
Yes, but she'll be out by 2028. Full sentence was just over 3 years, so even the whole sentence will be done.
Is a previous jail sentence an inhibition? I'm not sure.
There was an online petition to make it so in 2015, but it received TWO signatures.
Surely there were cases in NI of released IRA and other (IVF) previously imprisoned people standing? Wasn't Jerry Adams in the Long Kesh around 1972, but I'm not sure if that was a criminal conviction?
UVF not IVF
The latter is just inconceivable.
Yes - but it's interesting. IVF was largely Conservative Evangelical and politically probably quietist / small c conservative; I have met some remarkable people from the follow-on UCCF.
But some people of similar doctrinal stripe in eg NI, were quite willing to embrace violence. There was always a desgree of Arminian/Calvinist tension, but they navigated that successively.
That's one obvious difference with the current USA tradition, whether MAGA or Reformed Evangelicals (Calvinist mainly - equivalent to eg Strict Baptists or Open Brethren here), who often have an unapologetic callousness which is absent from that movement in the UK. Even now, some take a hard line on 'moral' questions, but it has been gradually liberalising for more than half a century.
Politically I think this is one reason why American style Nat Cons, and our self-dubbed "Patriots" on the Right will have quite a job appropriating the "Christian" identity in the UK, as their latest identity-skin to steal.
Most UK evangelicals are also anti gay marriage and anti abortion
Possibly true as a snapshot but not that relevant to my point; attitudes are liberalising over time - mainly by individuals actually getting to know same sex couples.
As a couple of examples, how many Evangelicals take a "James Anderton" position compared to 1987, and how many Pentecostals are still dealing with homosexuality by attempting to exorcise it?
I'm not familiar with the James Anderton position, but it sounds kinky.
It would be a little coprophilic (*) and possibly involve being quite disciplined (**), but I could not age verify as I am under 82.
Mr Anderton also had an exceptionally large collection of pornography.
* Not "I like cops". ** "I'd thrash some criminals myself, most surely."
More than anyone, it's probably @Cyclefree who has moved me in the direction of voting Reform. Not that she is in any way a supporter, but her accounts of what the "mainstream centrists" do, when they possess power, has convinced me that they need to be swept away.
Comments
It is not unusual for it to keep the left out of power and it reduces attention on things within their control.
Now consider how Israelis might see it.
Part of an ethnic group against which genocide has been attempted and 'surrounded' as they see it by Iran and its proxies which openly say that they will destroy Israel.
That the war has gone well for Israel in many aspects does not mean they don't see it as existential.
Certainly there was no shortage of predictions in October 2023 that Israel wouldn't be able to fight a multi-front war.
https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/1950495548785442910?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
And we've made four changes to our side 👇
https://x.com/englandcricket/status/1950496783446180098
Woakes, Atkinson, Overton, Tongue...when that ball gets a bit old nobody is going to be worried.
And yes, I have to believe that Israelis believe they are in an existential war.
Classic western bien pensant view to say what's all the fuss about because you are nowhere near that and you have never been in a position whereby you fear for your life on a daily basis.
IF we are importing 690,000 new people a year, it would seem likely those concerns would be eased as the immigrants would marry, have children and ensure the population continues to increase.
Those advocating a severe reduction in immigration (call it net zero if you want) against the background of falling fertility rates have to understand the medium to long term demographic implications of such a policy and we are indeed now seeing suggstions women should be encouraged to have children via tax incentives.
Ollie Pope will lead the side in Stokes' absence while Jacob Bethell will bat at number six.
There are also three changes to the bowling line-up with quicks Jofra Archer and Brydon Carse, who has played all four Tests so far, also missing out alongside spinner Liam Dawson.
Seamers Gus Atkinson, Josh Tongue and Jamie Overton are included while Chris Woakes retains his place.
England XI for fifth Test v India: Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Ollie Pope (captain), Joe Root, Harry Brook, Jacob Bethell, Jamie Smith (wicketkeeper), Chris Woakes, Gus Atkinson, Jamie Overton, Josh Tongue."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/clyvjd566e2o
How do Israelis see it? Polling support for Bibi's government has collapsed. Israelis are often less keen on Netanyahu's actions than his supporters here on PB.
She says their is no ideological or religious doctrine separating the factions, just different bands of warlords fighting over the spoils. So far as I I can see that is pretty much it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cr4zzvq2p33t
They have gone with Bethel/Root as the spin option and needed another quick to replace Stokes, hence dropping Dawson.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c776xgex02jo
https://en.idi.org.il/articles/59568
Israelis Unsure Current Military Operation Will Bring the Hostages Home or Topple Hamas
48% of Jews do not think that the operation will lead to the return of the hostages, and 50% of Arab Israelis share this assessment. 50% of Jews also do not think that the operation will lead to an end of Hamas’s rule. Among Arabs, 41% do not believe that the operation will result in the defeat of Hamas.
https://en.idi.org.il/articles/58648
Majority of Israelis Think PM Netanyahu Should Accept Responsibility for Oct 7 and Resign – Now or After the War
And from back in February: https://en.idi.org.il/articles/58114
A Large Majority of Israelis Support Proceeding to the Second Stage of the Ceasefire Agreement
More Israelis (43%) think Hamas' interests have been served better in the first stage of the ceasefire agreement than Israel's (21%); however, a majority still supports proceeding to the next stage (70%) if the first stage is completed as agreed
And here is some older polling on Israel's actions in Syria: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israeli-opinion-regarding-peace-with-syria-and-lebanon
https://support.spotify.com/uk/article/age-restricted-content-age-check/
We have not faced an existential war since 1945.
But, whilst I have little doubt that Hamas would like to carry out genocide, their threat level is a couple of orders of magnitude less than that of the Nazis.
A US poll last year found 74% of Democrats now backed an independent Palestinian state as did 55% of Independents, even if just 26% of Republicans backed recognising a Palestinian state
https://news.gallup.com/poll/611375/americans-views-israel-palestinian-authority-down.aspx
"Israel wants [my emphasis] to be accounted as part of the civilised(sic) West".
The civilised(sic) West that has for the past 100 years invaded, colonised, discriminated, inflicted, marginalised, exploited and much else many of those not in the West, you mean?
I think Israel wants to hold itself to higher standards than that.
I think this is going to piss off an absolutely enormous number of people in time. Age verfication may have some merits, but the approach taken is about as bad as it can get. i.e. Every site has to do it separately, there is no standaridisation or regulation of verifiers, and there is massive overreach. It's been done so badly you have to wonder if it was deliberate.
I don’t think they need coherent policies at the moment. But they will in the run up to the election. What they need now is to start fleshing out policies. I seriously thought of voting for them in the local elections but didn’t and nothing I’ve seen since told me I made the wrong decision.
I think the main issue for them is getting candidate selection correct.
They seem to make policies up as they go along. A bit like the Lib Dem’s do.
My conquering, slave-taking ancestors were bearers of civilisation. Yours were brutal barbarians. So, you get Caliphs, and African Kings praised for their enlightened statesmanship, and religious tolerance, despite building their empires and kingdoms on slave-taking.
She's the Minister for Transport.
Not sure how it's possible to misinterpret that. They are commendably clear about the process.
According to the latest Yougov poll Reform are on 36% with working class C2DE voters but just 25% with middle class ABC1 voters, which suggests PB does not have many working class posters
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/voting-intention?crossBreak=c2de
If anyone from the Labour Party is reading this, halt the OSA ASAP, it is going to blow up in your face. It needs a complete rethink and a lot of work with platform owners like Apple, Google, and Microsoft to make verification secure, private, and easy. It can be done, but what you have now is a ticking bomb.
You may be presented with an age check when you try to access certain age restricted content, like music videos tagged 18+.
Tap Continue and follow the on screen steps to do the age check.
How does the age check work?
Some users will be asked to perform an age check when accessing certain age restricted content. You can do this by going through our facial age check. If this shows inaccurate results, you can always correct that with an ID verification.
That doesn't sound like they're requiring it for everyone.
In response to the question upthread, they have an outside chance of winning Luton South, whereas the Conservatives have none. If that remains the case, in 2029, I will most likely vote for them,
Another local Labour source said some voters admitted backing Reform at county level had been a protest. Investing time in listening and repeat visits to those “willing to listen, but who need convincing” were crucial. “Minds were not set. I’d be concerned if people weren’t listening, but lots are. We can still have conversations.”
It started with an explicit listening exercise before the campaign began. Voter priorities quickly became explicit Labour priorities. “The biggest things that came out were asylum hotels, antisocial behaviour and parking.
“So those three went on the leaflet. We just went to voters where they were at, and focused relentlessly on those issues.”
1 - That's Blairism (triangulate on asylum hotels) + Libdemmery (pavement politics).
2 - How to oppose Reform? RefUK cannot compete on achievements, as they have no achievements (yet - maybe, see Kent CC), so they campaign on scary rhetoric and seeking to silo their voters into not listening to anybody else (ie "set their minds".)
Here in Ashfield, Lee Anderson can't campaign on asylum hotels because there aren't any, so in June 2024 he invented one out of thin air, and posted about to thousands on Facebook. It was actually NHS international nurses on holiday. He could have had one of his 5 office staff ring up to check, but being competent and honest would not have met his aims.
That's the Nigel Farage playbook on Epping. Put out a blatant lie * about "police bussing in Anfifa" to rile his supporters. Leave it there, and issue a notpology when they are good and riled up.
Pochin seems currently to be the most blatant.
* You can argue Farage made a mistake; I think it more likely he knows exactly what he is doing.
3. Parking is interesting in Stevenage as an issue. It was built with an off road travel network in 196x, but it was on a "get them out of our way" basis, and not well-maintained as per UK practice - build and forget, no routine, no long-term money. They have potential to fix that parking problem, perhaps by PSPO as they a Borough.
https://www.mediaite.com/politics/aipac-hits-back-at-report-it-pulled-endorsement-for-house-republican-who-said-gaza-can-starve-away/
Your pretensions they're all soft and cuddly do you no favours, you live in delusions we don't have to join.
I really don’t think the government understands just how effectively the OSA ensures that there will never be a UK internet company going forwards. Only the large, established social media companies can possibly afford to navigate the quagmire of regulations that have been published by OFCOM, where failure to comply comes with fines that could reach 10% of global turnover the imprisonment of executives.
X, Google & Facebook et al have the resources to navigate this towering pile of legalese. No startup company could possibly manage it - to pay a lawyer to review a company’s obligations will cost tens of thousands of pounds, given the size of the regulations. It’s madness. No thought has been given to making the regulations navigable by SMEs whatsoever.
I don't know what advice Parliament or Ofcom got on this issue, but either it wasn't any good of they decided to ignore it.
Admittedly we still have a small degree of influence with the US, which in turn has a fair amount of influence with Israel (or would if it chose to exercise it),
For example, calling for the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, which, when it happened, helped catapult him to power was politically astute as a career move but demonstrated what an utter shit he is.
It's going to be a huge problem, beyond daft implementations of age verification.
As a couple of examples, how many Evangelicals take a "James Anderton" position compared to 1987, and how many Pentecostals are still dealing with homosexuality by attempting to exorcise it?
That's nuts.
If they didn't want Dawson at least recall Leach, or Hartley, or Ahmed (and Ahmed let us not forget is also developing into an excellent top-order batsman).
Although your post is a bit Stockholm-ish. First you bomb the fuck out of them now you love them.
Palestine was politically 'split' by Palestinians themselves, in 2007, with the aftermath of the elections between Hamas and Fatah and the associated blood-letting. Over 600 Palestinians died after the 2006 election, and many more since.
If Hamas do not run Gaza, as you suppose, then why are they in any position to negotiate with anyone? In reality, they have controlled the population and organisations through violence, crime and terror for a couple of decades now. And that's a big problem.
https://www.movement.org.uk/blog/response-baptist-union-council-decision-lgbtq-ministers
https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2024/08/charity-watchdog-refuses-to-act-on-gay-exorcism-church
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67592961
Mr Anderton also had an exceptionally large collection of pornography.
* Not "I like cops".
** "I'd thrash some criminals myself, most surely."