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Why Amanda Spielman Deserves her Peerage – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,343

    Bogota said:

    Have you ever been in a situation where you are playing poker and one guy is so bad and does so many stupid things it throws you off your game. And suddenly you find yourself losing to this terrible player. Thats Trump.

    No.
    Yes, the last two companies I worked for have disappeared, as have a lot of non commercial institutions that I used to cover. I am thinking of museums, university departments, various historians and academics and churches. No fuss, no grandstanding, but they have just disappeared over the last six months or so. I miss them.

    (Sorry, I have just got in, so forgive me if this has already bee covered, but there was a first class documentaery on BBC2 on Friday night on the decline and fall of Twitter/X. Genuinely fascinating on a number of levels.)
    Twitter revenues are down to 2016/7 levels, and about half their peak around 2021.
    Every social media site is doomed by Dead Internet Theory, which is now coming true. For example, look at the header above you. Who wrote that? Who liked it? Why did these fucking idiots like it?

    QED

    They will all soon expire
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,200
    edited April 6

    Eabhal said:

    Noticed a couple of houses in the Highlands with a slightly mad solar setup. They've put two steel supports at the northern corners of the house and extended their array from the south facing roof into the air, so it's double the size and across the whole footprint of their house. Heatpumps attached to the supports too.

    Looks dreadful tbh. Not sure why it wasn't cheaper to just create a big standalone array in the garden. Something to do with a planning loophole? Gardeners trying to preserve space?

    Any sort of solar setup that far north is more than a little mad.
    Not really. A 10kW array in Inverness, facing due south and set at a 41° slope angle, will generate over 8,000kWh of electricity.

    And if you're not in Inverness but off-grid somewhere in the Highlands at a similar latitude with some battery storage, it makes even more sense.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,882

    Bogota said:

    Have you ever been in a situation where you are playing poker and one guy is so bad and does so many stupid things it throws you off your game. And suddenly you find yourself losing to this terrible player. Thats Trump.

    No.
    Yes, the last two companies I worked for have disappeared, as have a lot of non commercial institutions that I used to cover. I am thinking of museums, university departments, various historians and academics and churches. No fuss, no grandstanding, but they have just disappeared over the last six months or so. I miss them.

    (Sorry, I have just got in, so forgive me if this has already bee covered, but there was a first class documentaery on BBC2 on Friday night on the decline and fall of Twitter/X. Genuinely fascinating on a number of levels.)
    Twitter revenues are down to 2016/7 levels, and about half their peak around 2021.
    The Twitter documentary is on iplayer:-

    Twitter: Breaking the Bird

    In 2006, a group of tech entrepreneurs created the revolutionary social media app Twitter. In just a few years, it transformed the way the world communicated. Using first-hand accounts from its founders and early employees, this is the inside story of how Twitter was invented, how it spread across the world through explosive growth, and how difficult it became to control the volume of hate speech and misinformation posted on the platform.

    At first, the site grew on the back of celebrities who realised it offered them a direct way to communicate with their fans. After it went global, adopted by democracy activists across the world, it seemed to be fulfilling the founders' dream of a digital utopia where all voices would be heard. But as hate speech and misinformation flooded the platform, Twitter faced growing problems in its attempts to control them. The sale of Twitter to Elon Musk in 2022 represented the final end of the founders’ utopian dream.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0029m2t/twitter-breaking-the-bird
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,728
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Bogota said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Its interesting you have become much more anti immigration recently. Cant help but think this is related to the massive demographic change at your daughters school.
    Mm. This isn't really an immigration post - I'm expressing discomfort at the eagerness of the state to criminalise speech of any sort. Including, note, speech I disagree with.

    And I've always been pretty sceptical of a) the economic arguments for immigration, which I don't think stack up, and b) the principle of multiculturalism. This isn't a new thing! That said, I'm also very positive about the impact of certain immigrants eg many of the HK immigrants, who are generally highly skilled, Anglophone, and quick to integrate. So it's not a black and white issue.

    That said, you are right in the respect that I have noticed previously impeccably Guardianista individuals at the school gate start to express a lot more reservations now the impacts are much closer to home!
    Your Guardianista fellow parents are wankers. Sorry, but it is true. I despise them

    The inability to see the terrible downsides of mass immigration for OTHERS in Britain (usually poorer, less well educated, less mobile) is a basic failure of Theory of Mind, common in the autistic or the dogmatic; they cannot think themselves into other people's lives or they cannot see beyond their own perceived virtue

    Until it hits them for real, and in person

    Fools and knaves, the lot of them. They are why Europe is headed for a grimly Hard Right future, whatever Trump does
    See also: person x votes for party/cause/candidate y. I dislike party/cause/candidate y. Therefore person x must be stupid or evil or both.
    Failure of theory of mind.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,200

    Whitehall source tells S Times that there are two options for further dramatic cuts in welfare budget (which might be needed thanks to Trumpski).

    One is means testing the disability benefit, PIP.

    The other is looking again at the Triple Lock for pensioners.

    The latter, the source says, no one would go near.

    Madness. Just madness. Will no one grasp this nettle?

    Breaking the triple lock will save no money in the short term. Ending higher rate tax relief on contributions will save a ton of money every month right from day one, but this perk favours the well-paid like MPs, newspaper columnists and, dare I say, PBers, so no-one calls for it.
    Making NI payable on unearned and pension income would be the simplest, fairest way to raise extra funds.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,677
    After two and half years and 200 videos my YouTube channel name change has gone live. I’m leaving the @justgetatesla URL in place briefly whilst I sort out email addresses and things, but as of now the channel is The Tesla Question.

    Hopefully the rebrand goes better than Royal Mail to Consignia
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,009

    Eabhal said:

    Noticed a couple of houses in the Highlands with a slightly mad solar setup. They've put two steel supports at the northern corners of the house and extended their array from the south facing roof into the air, so it's double the size and across the whole footprint of their house. Heatpumps attached to the supports too.

    Looks dreadful tbh. Not sure why it wasn't cheaper to just create a big standalone array in the garden. Something to do with a planning loophole? Gardeners trying to preserve space?

    Any sort of solar setup that far north is more than a little mad.
    Why?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,200

    After two and half years and 200 videos my YouTube channel name change has gone live. I’m leaving the @justgetatesla URL in place briefly whilst I sort out email addresses and things, but as of now the channel is The Tesla Question.

    Hopefully the rebrand goes better than Royal Mail to Consignia

    Surprised you didn't drop Tesla from the title altogether tbh. Are you 100% focused on Tesla?
  • BogotaBogota Posts: 34
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Bogota said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Its interesting you have become much more anti immigration recently. Cant help but think this is related to the massive demographic change at your daughters school.
    Mm. This isn't really an immigration post - I'm expressing discomfort at the eagerness of the state to criminalise speech of any sort. Including, note, speech I disagree with.

    And I've always been pretty sceptical of a) the economic arguments for immigration, which I don't think stack up, and b) the principle of multiculturalism. This isn't a new thing! That said, I'm also very positive about the impact of certain immigrants eg many of the HK immigrants, who are generally highly skilled, Anglophone, and quick to integrate. So it's not a black and white issue.

    That said, you are right in the respect that I have noticed previously impeccably Guardianista individuals at the school gate start to express a lot more reservations now the impacts are much closer to home!
    Your Guardianista fellow parents are wankers. Sorry, but it is true. I despise them

    The inability to see the terrible downsides of mass immigration for OTHERS in Britain (usually poorer, less well educated, less mobile) is a basic failure of Theory of Mind, common in the autistic or the dogmatic; they cannot think themselves into other people's lives or they cannot see beyond their own perceived virtue

    Until it hits them for real, and in person

    Fools and knaves, the lot of them. They are why Europe is headed for a grimly Hard Right future, whatever Trump does
    I actually think they get a secret thrill from poor peoples lives being made worse by mass immigration. Cruelty combined with virtue signalling is an unbeatable combination. The kinabalu types.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,200

    Whitehall source tells S Times that there are two options for further dramatic cuts in welfare budget (which might be needed thanks to Trumpski).

    One is means testing the disability benefit, PIP.

    The other is looking again at the Triple Lock for pensioners.

    The latter, the source says, no one would go near.

    Madness. Just madness. Will no one grasp this nettle?

    Maybe they need to hide it in a Great Repeal Bill to revert the constitution to how it was in 1997. Abolish everything that came after that, from the OBR to the Sentencing Council to the Triple Lock.
    Not forgetting Brexit!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,436
    edited April 6
    Sean_F said:

    A Labour MP is being investigated by the Metropolitan Police over an allegation of sexual assault at the well known celeb hangout The Groucho club

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14577253/MP-probed-sex-assault-Groucho-Club.html

    Brenda - "Not another one?!"
    As @rcs1000 pointed out, it's strange how many sex politicians are sexual offenders.
    Blackadder: "Now; any history of insanity in the family? Tell you what, I’ll cross out the `in’. Any history of *sanity* in the family? 'None whatsoever’. Now then; criminal record…"

    Baldrick: "Absolutely not!"

    Blackadder: "Oh, come on, Baldrick, you’re going to be an MP, for God’s sake! I’ll just put 'fraud and sexual deviancy’."
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,984
    Leon said:

    nico67 said:

    What a shame Marine Le Pens martyrdom rally was a flop !

    A poll shows 61% support the Paris Criminal Court decision to bar her from elections for 5 years .

    But 39% do not?

    Far too early to exult, you ghoulish Marxist pervert

    She called a raily in Paris. She got few. But her voters are not the type to go to Paris for rallies

    They live elsewhere, and they are angry

    Remember the terrible numbers that anti-EU or UKIP rallies achieved in London? - utterly embarrassing. But that was, it turned out, because Leavery, anti-EU people tend to be older, do not live in London, and don't like political rallies per se

    Wait for the next French elex

    Older people in France are more pro EU and anti Le Pen because they’re not fooled by her efforts to turn herself into Mary Poppins. RN need to move on from Le Pen and need to try and dupe the gullible by getting behind Bardella.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,677

    After two and half years and 200 videos my YouTube channel name change has gone live. I’m leaving the @justgetatesla URL in place briefly whilst I sort out email addresses and things, but as of now the channel is The Tesla Question.

    Hopefully the rebrand goes better than Royal Mail to Consignia

    Surprised you didn't drop Tesla from the title altogether tbh. Are you 100% focused on Tesla?
    Not 100%, but let’s face it most of the content is me driving the thing. At least now I’m asking the question- should you just get a Tesla? Or are there better alternatives? And then I can look at those as I did recently with Polestar
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,343
    Bogota said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Bogota said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Its interesting you have become much more anti immigration recently. Cant help but think this is related to the massive demographic change at your daughters school.
    Mm. This isn't really an immigration post - I'm expressing discomfort at the eagerness of the state to criminalise speech of any sort. Including, note, speech I disagree with.

    And I've always been pretty sceptical of a) the economic arguments for immigration, which I don't think stack up, and b) the principle of multiculturalism. This isn't a new thing! That said, I'm also very positive about the impact of certain immigrants eg many of the HK immigrants, who are generally highly skilled, Anglophone, and quick to integrate. So it's not a black and white issue.

    That said, you are right in the respect that I have noticed previously impeccably Guardianista individuals at the school gate start to express a lot more reservations now the impacts are much closer to home!
    Your Guardianista fellow parents are wankers. Sorry, but it is true. I despise them

    The inability to see the terrible downsides of mass immigration for OTHERS in Britain (usually poorer, less well educated, less mobile) is a basic failure of Theory of Mind, common in the autistic or the dogmatic; they cannot think themselves into other people's lives or they cannot see beyond their own perceived virtue

    Until it hits them for real, and in person

    Fools and knaves, the lot of them. They are why Europe is headed for a grimly Hard Right future, whatever Trump does
    I actually think they get a secret thrill from poor peoples lives being made worse by mass immigration. Cruelty combined with virtue signalling is an unbeatable combination. The kinabalu types.
    I'm not at all sure I'd put @kinabalu in that category. He strikes me more as well-meaning, quite intelligent, but narrow minded and terminally cautious - intellectually and physically

    There ARE these types on PB, they are repulsive, and there are many elsewhere. But I am in a benign mood here in Kazakhstan - the moon is shining on the Tien Shan mountains and the next week promises sun and grandeur - so I shall not name them. Peace to all
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,449

    Whitehall source tells S Times that there are two options for further dramatic cuts in welfare budget (which might be needed thanks to Trumpski).

    One is means testing the disability benefit, PIP.

    The other is looking again at the Triple Lock for pensioners.

    The latter, the source says, no one would go near.

    Madness. Just madness. Will no one grasp this nettle?

    Breaking the triple lock will save no money in the short term. Ending higher rate tax relief on contributions will save a ton of money every month right from day one, but this perk favours the well-paid like MPs, newspaper columnists and, dare I say, PBers, so no-one calls for it.
    Making NI payable on unearned and pension income would be the simplest, fairest way to raise extra funds.
    The problem being that some people will have worked for fifty years on the assumption that national insurance is not applied to pension income and they will be very angry to discover it now does after those who are older than them have not had to pay it.

    Better to increase the state pension age and get rid of pension credits (plus associated benefits) instead.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,733
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,449
    Leon said:

    I have an urge to see what little is left of the Aral Sea

    Don't see the sea, swim in it.

    Did you know that Prue Leith has been travelling through Central Asia before you had done so ?

    https://www.thetimes.com/travel/destinations/asia-travel/uzbekistan/three-week-tour-prue-leith-chef-restaurateur-t3zvqxpdf
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,147

    Bogota said:

    Have you ever been in a situation where you are playing poker and one guy is so bad and does so many stupid things it throws you off your game. And suddenly you find yourself losing to this terrible player. Thats Trump.

    No.
    Yes, the last two companies I worked for have disappeared, as have a lot of non commercial institutions that I used to cover. I am thinking of museums, university departments, various historians and academics and churches. No fuss, no grandstanding, but they have just disappeared over the last six months or so. I miss them.

    (Sorry, I have just got in, so forgive me if this has already bee covered, but there was a first class documentaery on BBC2 on Friday night on the decline and fall of Twitter/X. Genuinely fascinating on a number of levels.)
    Twitter revenues are down to 2016/7 levels, and about half their peak around 2021.
    The Twitter documentary is on iplayer:-

    Twitter: Breaking the Bird

    In 2006, a group of tech entrepreneurs created the revolutionary social media app Twitter. In just a few years, it transformed the way the world communicated. Using first-hand accounts from its founders and early employees, this is the inside story of how Twitter was invented, how it spread across the world through explosive growth, and how difficult it became to control the volume of hate speech and misinformation posted on the platform.

    At first, the site grew on the back of celebrities who realised it offered them a direct way to communicate with their fans. After it went global, adopted by democracy activists across the world, it seemed to be fulfilling the founders' dream of a digital utopia where all voices would be heard. But as hate speech and misinformation flooded the platform, Twitter faced growing problems in its attempts to control them. The sale of Twitter to Elon Musk in 2022 represented the final end of the founders’ utopian dream.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0029m2t/twitter-breaking-the-bird
    It was pretty interesting. One thing I took from it was the idea that chaotic, mostly leaderless Twitter was involved on some deep state plot to silence the Right in the form of Trump was complete bollox.
    But angrily self pitying conspiracy theorists gotta theorise.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,882

    Whitehall source tells S Times that there are two options for further dramatic cuts in welfare budget (which might be needed thanks to Trumpski).

    One is means testing the disability benefit, PIP.

    The other is looking again at the Triple Lock for pensioners.

    The latter, the source says, no one would go near.

    Madness. Just madness. Will no one grasp this nettle?

    Breaking the triple lock will save no money in the short term. Ending higher rate tax relief on contributions will save a ton of money every month right from day one, but this perk favours the well-paid like MPs, newspaper columnists and, dare I say, PBers, so no-one calls for it.
    Making NI payable on unearned and pension income would be the simplest, fairest way to raise extra funds.
    It might be fair but is not quite simple because it would break the link between NI and qualification for the state pension. It is doable but would need some thinking about unless HMG is happy for everyone to qualify.

    Which it might be. Another pension loophole was mentioned the other day. The facility to pay additional NICs in order to qualify for a state pension is not restricted to those living here. Anyone who has worked here for three years before returning home can do this.

    Bizarre loophole lets foreign residents claim full UK state pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/pensions/state-pensions/bizarre-loophole-lets-foreign-residents-claim-uk-pension/ (£££)
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,009

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    It's been a criminal offence for ever (essentially), because inciting any crime used to be prosecuted under common law. AI can find me examples back to the 15th Century, but I guess similar laws have been around back to antiquity.

    I am not a lawyer.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,449
    For any PBers who were planning on building a clothing factory in the USA to benefit from the end of cheap imports:

    Howard Lutnick is next asked during his interview with CBS News - the BBC's US partner - if the 10% "baseline" tariff on all countries is permanent.

    Lutnick does not answer the question directly, saying Trump will "protect the companies that invest here".

    Pressed again on this point, Lutnik says "they are definitely going to stay in place for days and weeks", adding that the president "needs to reset global trade".


    Days and weeks.

    Every business will put potential investment plans on hold.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,992
    Leon said:

    Bogota said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Bogota said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Its interesting you have become much more anti immigration recently. Cant help but think this is related to the massive demographic change at your daughters school.
    Mm. This isn't really an immigration post - I'm expressing discomfort at the eagerness of the state to criminalise speech of any sort. Including, note, speech I disagree with.

    And I've always been pretty sceptical of a) the economic arguments for immigration, which I don't think stack up, and b) the principle of multiculturalism. This isn't a new thing! That said, I'm also very positive about the impact of certain immigrants eg many of the HK immigrants, who are generally highly skilled, Anglophone, and quick to integrate. So it's not a black and white issue.

    That said, you are right in the respect that I have noticed previously impeccably Guardianista individuals at the school gate start to express a lot more reservations now the impacts are much closer to home!
    Your Guardianista fellow parents are wankers. Sorry, but it is true. I despise them

    The inability to see the terrible downsides of mass immigration for OTHERS in Britain (usually poorer, less well educated, less mobile) is a basic failure of Theory of Mind, common in the autistic or the dogmatic; they cannot think themselves into other people's lives or they cannot see beyond their own perceived virtue

    Until it hits them for real, and in person

    Fools and knaves, the lot of them. They are why Europe is headed for a grimly Hard Right future, whatever Trump does
    I actually think they get a secret thrill from poor peoples lives being made worse by mass immigration. Cruelty combined with virtue signalling is an unbeatable combination. The kinabalu types.
    I'm not at all sure I'd put @kinabalu in that category. He strikes me more as well-meaning, quite intelligent, but narrow minded and terminally cautious - intellectually and physically

    There ARE these types on PB, they are repulsive, and there are many elsewhere. But I am in a benign mood here in Kazakhstan - the moon is shining on the Tien Shan mountains and the next week promises sun and grandeur - so I shall not name them. Peace to all
    Well I don't believe anyone had "Bogota" down in the Leon's new name sweepstake.

    Good effort.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,367
    Seems likely

  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,890

    Leon said:

    I have an urge to see what little is left of the Aral Sea

    Don't see the sea, swim in it.

    Did you know that Prue Leith has been travelling through Central Asia before you had done so ?

    https://www.thetimes.com/travel/destinations/asia-travel/uzbekistan/three-week-tour-prue-leith-chef-restaurateur-t3zvqxpdf
    Sounds like a new BBC series. The Travels of Leon and Leith. Sundays at 9pm
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,561
    https://x.com/lucasfoxnews/status/1908900999449763931

    Peter Navarro responds to Vietnam’s offer to remove all tariffs: “This is not a negotiation. This is a national emergency based on a trade deficit that’s gotten out of control because of cheating,” Trump’s trade adviser says on @SundayFutures. “Don’t say you want to lower the tariffs and be done with it. It’s the non-tariff cheating. Stop manipulating your currencies. Stop dumping stuff in.”
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,200

    Whitehall source tells S Times that there are two options for further dramatic cuts in welfare budget (which might be needed thanks to Trumpski).

    One is means testing the disability benefit, PIP.

    The other is looking again at the Triple Lock for pensioners.

    The latter, the source says, no one would go near.

    Madness. Just madness. Will no one grasp this nettle?

    Breaking the triple lock will save no money in the short term. Ending higher rate tax relief on contributions will save a ton of money every month right from day one, but this perk favours the well-paid like MPs, newspaper columnists and, dare I say, PBers, so no-one calls for it.
    Making NI payable on unearned and pension income would be the simplest, fairest way to raise extra funds.
    The problem being that some people will have worked for fifty years on the assumption that national insurance is not applied to pension income and they will be very angry to discover it now does after those who are older than them have not had to pay it.

    Better to increase the state pension age and get rid of pension credits (plus associated benefits) instead.
    This has to be one of the dumbest things you've ever posted. Pension Credit is payable to individuals whose total retirement income is less than £227 pw (£346 pw for couples). Some of those may have zero income without PC. And before you ask, no, there are no longer any workhouses.

    And as for your other point: for anyone who has assumed for 50 years that tax rates and scope will remain unchanged, I have a bridge to sell them.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,436
    Eabhal said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    It's been a criminal offence for ever (essentially), because inciting any crime used to be prosecuted under common law. AI can find me examples back to the 15th Century, but I guess similar laws have been around back to antiquity.

    I am not a lawyer.
    TSE: "Nobody's perfect!"
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,139

    Whitehall source tells S Times that there are two options for further dramatic cuts in welfare budget (which might be needed thanks to Trumpski).

    One is means testing the disability benefit, PIP.

    The other is looking again at the Triple Lock for pensioners.

    The latter, the source says, no one would go near.

    Madness. Just madness. Will no one grasp this nettle?

    Politically, I think the triple lock stays, unless the IMF tell Britain to get rid of it. Too many millions of people who will be told, repeatedly, by slogans on the side of the bus, how many £s they have personally lost if it goes.

    Given that it will be a crisis that will see the triple lock go, what we will also most likely see is an actual nominal cut to the rate that is paid, because in a crisis the government will need to cut outgoings right now, not just projected increases in outgoings over a 20-year time period.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,367

    After two and half years and 200 videos my YouTube channel name change has gone live. I’m leaving the @justgetatesla URL in place briefly whilst I sort out email addresses and things, but as of now the channel is The Tesla Question.

    Hopefully the rebrand goes better than Royal Mail to Consignia

    Surprised you didn't just add a question mark to the original title, or does youtube not allow that?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,736

    Leon said:

    I have an urge to see what little is left of the Aral Sea

    Don't see the sea, swim in it.

    Did you know that Prue Leith has been travelling through Central Asia before you had done so ?

    https://www.thetimes.com/travel/destinations/asia-travel/uzbekistan/three-week-tour-prue-leith-chef-restaurateur-t3zvqxpdf
    Refilling the Aral Sea is one of those raising the Titanic dreams that some billionaire oligarch must surely be poised to try. There’s been a little success raising levels but nothing dramatic.

    Sadly, unlike for Lake Chad (which filled this summer and should continue to recover long term) I think climate change makes this harder. The Sahel should get wetter more than it gets hotter in the next few decades, whereas Central Asian rainfall will stay similar on average but heat and evaporation will continue to increase.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,554
    edited April 6
    Bogota said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Bogota said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Its interesting you have become much more anti immigration recently. Cant help but think this is related to the massive demographic change at your daughters school.
    Mm. This isn't really an immigration post - I'm expressing discomfort at the
    eagerness of the state to criminalise
    speech of any sort. Including, note, speech I disagree with.

    And I've always been pretty sceptical of a) the economic arguments for immigration, which I don't think stack up, and b) the principle of multiculturalism. This isn't a new thing! That said, I'm also very positive about the impact of certain immigrants eg many of the HK immigrants, who are generally highly skilled, Anglophone, and quick to integrate. So it's not a black and white issue.

    That said, you are right in the respect that I have noticed previously impeccably Guardianista individuals at the school gate start to express a lot more reservations now the impacts are much closer to home!
    Your Guardianista fellow parents are wankers. Sorry, but it is true. I despise them

    The inability to see the terrible downsides of mass immigration for OTHERS in Britain (usually poorer, less well educated, less mobile) is a basic failure of Theory of Mind, common in the autistic or the dogmatic; they cannot think themselves into other people's lives or they cannot see beyond their own perceived virtue

    Until it hits them for real, and in person

    Fools and knaves, the lot of them. They are why Europe is headed for a grimly Hard Right future, whatever Trump does
    I actually think they get a secret thrill from poor peoples lives being made worse by mass immigration. Cruelty combined with virtue signalling is an unbeatable combination. The kinabalu types.
    Sorry, but if your criminality, and there is clear incitement in that speech, is in any way associated with riot you get the book thrown at you, whether you are strolling out with a bottle of water or casually encouraging people to set
    fire of hotels full of immigrants. It was true in 2010 as it was in 2024, because we cannot tolerate riot becoming normalized in an area.

    And they are still at it. This week in Huddersfield a 16 year old lad of Syrian origin 16 died having had his neck slit on a town centre thoroughfare in broad daylight. The arrestee was a EDOTING
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,367

    https://x.com/lucasfoxnews/status/1908900999449763931

    Peter Navarro responds to Vietnam’s offer to remove all tariffs: “This is not a negotiation. This is a national emergency based on a trade deficit that’s gotten out of control because of cheating,” Trump’s trade adviser says on @SundayFutures. “Don’t say you want to lower the tariffs and be done with it. It’s the non-tariff cheating. Stop manipulating your currencies. Stop dumping stuff in.”

    The message to other nations seems to be variable and unclear, so if they do have a plan for this it seems unlikely to work out as others cannot figure out what might stop the punishment beatings.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,728

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,200
    edited April 6

    Whitehall source tells S Times that there are two options for further dramatic cuts in welfare budget (which might be needed thanks to Trumpski).

    One is means testing the disability benefit, PIP.

    The other is looking again at the Triple Lock for pensioners.

    The latter, the source says, no one would go near.

    Madness. Just madness. Will no one grasp this nettle?

    Breaking the triple lock will save no money in the short term. Ending higher rate tax relief on contributions will save a ton of money every month right from day one, but this perk favours the well-paid like MPs, newspaper columnists and, dare I say, PBers, so no-one calls for it.
    Making NI payable on unearned and pension income would be the simplest, fairest way to raise extra funds.
    It might be fair but is not quite simple because it would break the link between NI and qualification for the state pension. It is doable but would need some thinking about unless HMG is happy for everyone to qualify.

    Which it might be. Another pension loophole was mentioned the other day. The facility to pay additional NICs in order to qualify for a state pension is not restricted to those living here. Anyone who has worked here for three years before returning home can do this.

    Bizarre loophole lets foreign residents claim full UK state pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/pensions/state-pensions/bizarre-loophole-lets-foreign-residents-claim-uk-pension/ (£££)
    No it wouldn't break that link, all those who pay NI could gain qualifying years.

    Removing NI or rolling it into ICT would break the link but I have a hunch that even the Oxbridge Firsts at the Treasury might work out that it's possible to start counting years in which a person pays ICT as 'qualifying years' in future.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,139
    kle4 said:

    Seems likely

    Given the history of economic mismanagement by authoritarian dictatorships, "likely" is a bit optimistic. There are plenty further ways that he could screw up the economy given that his primary concerns are (1) remaining in power, and, (2) looting as much money for himself personally as possible.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,677
    kle4 said:

    After two and half years and 200 videos my YouTube channel name change has gone live. I’m leaving the @justgetatesla URL in place briefly whilst I sort out email addresses and things, but as of now the channel is The Tesla Question.

    Hopefully the rebrand goes better than Royal Mail to Consignia

    Surprised you didn't just add a question mark to the original title, or does youtube not allow that?
    It does, but it doesn’t work particularly well. I’ve literally tried that in a few videos - adding the question mark in the opening and closing words.

    The Tesla Question (which is “Just Get A Tesla?”) lets me pose a question on each video for as long as I can be bothered or remember. And can talk about Elon being a cock without being accused of being a fanboi
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,009
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Noticed a couple of houses in the Highlands with a slightly mad solar setup. They've put two steel supports at the northern corners of the house and extended their array from the south facing roof into the air, so it's double the size and across the whole footprint of their house. Heatpumps attached to the supports too.

    Looks dreadful tbh. Not sure why it wasn't cheaper to just create a big standalone array in the garden. Something to do with a planning loophole? Gardeners trying to preserve space?

    Any sort of solar setup that far north is more than a little mad.
    Why?
    To expand on this - a solar panel in my hometown would generate 90% of the energy of one in central London. In the north of Scotland, 3/4 of homes are not on the gas grid, so require heating oil or electricity.

    Approx. 50%* of non-gas properties this bit of Scotland are heated by electricity, which explains the mass proliferation of solar panels in an attempt to keep costs down. Heating oil costs also went through the roof (geddit) during the Ukraine invasion.

    *Much higher than non-gas properties in England and Wales, oddly enough.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,488
    Pro_Rata said:

    Bogota said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Bogota said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Its interesting you have become much more anti immigration recently. Cant help but think this is related to the massive demographic change at your daughters school.
    Mm. This isn't really an immigration post - I'm expressing discomfort at the
    eagerness of the state to criminalise
    speech of any sort. Including, note, speech I disagree with.

    And I've always been pretty sceptical of a) the economic arguments for immigration, which I don't think stack up, and b) the principle of multiculturalism. This isn't a new thing! That said, I'm also very positive about the impact of certain immigrants eg many of the HK immigrants, who are generally highly skilled, Anglophone, and quick to integrate. So it's not a black and white issue.

    That said, you are right in the respect that I have noticed previously impeccably Guardianista individuals at the school gate start to express a lot more reservations now the impacts are much closer to home!
    Your Guardianista fellow parents are wankers. Sorry, but it is true. I despise them

    The inability to see the terrible downsides of mass immigration for OTHERS in Britain (usually poorer, less well educated, less mobile) is a basic failure of Theory of Mind, common in the autistic or the dogmatic; they cannot think themselves into other people's lives or they cannot see beyond their own perceived virtue

    Until it hits them for real, and in person

    Fools and knaves, the lot of them. They are why Europe is headed for a grimly Hard Right future, whatever Trump does
    I actually think they get a secret thrill from poor peoples lives being made worse by mass immigration. Cruelty combined with virtue signalling is an unbeatable combination. The kinabalu types.
    Sorry, but if your criminality, and there is clear incitement in that speech, is in any way associated with riot you get the book thrown at you, whether you are strolling out with a bottle of water or casually encouraging people to set
    fire of hotels full of immigrants. It was true in 2010 as it was in 2024, because we cannot tolerate riot becoming normalized in an area.

    And they are still at it. This week in Huddersfield a 16 year old lad of Syrian origin 16 died having had his neck slit on a town centre thoroughfare in broad daylight. The arrestee was a EDOTING
    I have no idea what EDOTING means.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,554
    edited April 6
    Pro_Rata said:

    Bogota said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Bogota said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Its interesting you have become much more anti immigration recently. Cant help but think this is related to the massive demographic change at your daughters school.
    Mm. This isn't really an immigration post - I'm expressing discomfort at the
    eagerness of the state to criminalise
    speech of any sort. Including, note, speech I disagree with.

    And I've always been pretty sceptical of a) the economic arguments for immigration, which I don't think stack up, and b) the principle of multiculturalism. This isn't a new thing! That said, I'm also very positive about the impact of certain immigrants eg many of the HK immigrants, who are generally highly skilled, Anglophone, and quick to integrate. So it's not a black and white issue.

    That said, you are right in the respect that I have noticed previously impeccably Guardianista individuals at the school gate start to express a lot more reservations now the impacts are much closer to home!
    Your Guardianista fellow parents are wankers. Sorry, but it is true. I despise them

    The inability to see the terrible downsides of mass immigration for OTHERS in Britain (usually poorer, less well educated, less mobile) is a basic failure of Theory of Mind, common in the autistic or the dogmatic; they cannot think themselves into other people's lives or they cannot see beyond their own perceived virtue

    Until it hits them for real, and in person

    Fools and knaves, the lot of them. They are why Europe is headed for a grimly Hard Right future, whatever Trump does
    I actually think they get a secret thrill from poor peoples lives being made worse by mass immigration. Cruelty combined with virtue signalling is an unbeatable combination. The kinabalu types.
    Sorry, but if your criminality, and there is clear incitement in that speech, is in any way associated with riot you get the book thrown at you, whether you are strolling out with a bottle of water or casually encouraging people to set
    fire of hotels full of immigrants. It was true in 2010 as it was in 2024, because we cannot tolerate riot becoming normalized in an area.

    And they are still at it. This week in Huddersfield a 16 year old lad of Syrian origin 16 died having had his neck slit on a town centre thoroughfare in broad daylight. The arrestee was a EDOTING
    And they are still at it. This week in Huddersfield a 16 year old lad of Syrian origin died having had his neck slit on a town centre thoroughfare in broad daylight. It wasn't gang related. The arrestee is a 20 year old white lad whose profiles appear to indicate he is of South African origin.

    Twitter spun this in the gap before information was released as a Kurdish accused and "when will we defend our people". Why should those knowingly spouting poisonous bullshit to invite race war on streets I walk be treated lightly. They are enemies of democracy and this state and in a world of Trump are not to be tolerated at any level. And, yes, it's only fucking speech, but no, just no.

    Throw the fucking book at them. Rub their noses in it as they sniff out the faecal smells of two tier justice. And worse. They are below scum.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,984

    https://x.com/lucasfoxnews/status/1908900999449763931

    Peter Navarro responds to Vietnam’s offer to remove all tariffs: “This is not a negotiation. This is a national emergency based on a trade deficit that’s gotten out of control because of cheating,” Trump’s trade adviser says on @SundayFutures. “Don’t say you want to lower the tariffs and be done with it. It’s the non-tariff cheating. Stop manipulating your currencies. Stop dumping stuff in.”

    Navarro has delusions that’s he’s some expert on tariffs .
  • BogotaBogota Posts: 34

    kle4 said:

    Seems likely

    Given the history of economic mismanagement by authoritarian dictatorships, "likely" is a bit optimistic. There are plenty further ways that he could screw up the economy given that his primary concerns are (1) remaining in power, and, (2) looting as much money for himself personally as possible.
    How long do republicans tolerate this.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,262

    https://x.com/lucasfoxnews/status/1908900999449763931

    Peter Navarro responds to Vietnam’s offer to remove all tariffs: “This is not a negotiation. This is a national emergency based on a trade deficit that’s gotten out of control because of cheating,” Trump’s trade adviser says on @SundayFutures. “Don’t say you want to lower the tariffs and be done with it. It’s the non-tariff cheating. Stop manipulating your currencies. Stop dumping stuff in.”

    Utterly mad.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,488

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,200

    After two and half years and 200 videos my YouTube channel name change has gone live. I’m leaving the @justgetatesla URL in place briefly whilst I sort out email addresses and things, but as of now the channel is The Tesla Question.

    Hopefully the rebrand goes better than Royal Mail to Consignia

    Surprised you didn't drop Tesla from the title altogether tbh. Are you 100% focused on Tesla?
    Not 100%, but let’s face it most of the content is me driving the thing. At least now I’m asking the question- should you just get a Tesla? Or are there better alternatives? And then I can look at those as I did recently with Polestar
    Reminds me of how my old venture shooting QVC ads for a jewellery brand came to a sudden end.

    With hindsight maybe going all-in on market-leaders Ratner was a mistake?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,216

    https://x.com/lucasfoxnews/status/1908900999449763931

    Peter Navarro responds to Vietnam’s offer to remove all tariffs: “This is not a negotiation. This is a national emergency based on a trade deficit that’s gotten out of control because of cheating,” Trump’s trade adviser says on @SundayFutures. “Don’t say you want to lower the tariffs and be done with it. It’s the non-tariff cheating. Stop manipulating your currencies. Stop dumping stuff in.”

    How is Vietnam “cheating”? They make stuff America wants to buy at a price Americans can afford to pay. Vietnam can’t buy the same value back from America because Vietnam makes fucktons of stuff for America at a price which means their own economy can’t afford American stuff.

    I keep asking how the common clay of the new west can be this stupid. Then I remember: morons
    Not entirely stupid- after all, American dominance was built on being the only place that could make stuff... As was British dominance before that.

    It's a pretty peachy niche to occupy, so it's not surprising that America wants to regain that. The only stupid is in not recognising that the consequences of remaking the world that way will be pretty horrible for everyone.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,754

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    You must drink in some really shit pubs if that's what the chat's like.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,488

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    You must drink in some really shit pubs if that's what the chat's like.
    If you don’t believe those pubs exist then I’d suggest you head for some of the rougher areas of our towns and cities.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,677

    After two and half years and 200 videos my YouTube channel name change has gone live. I’m leaving the @justgetatesla URL in place briefly whilst I sort out email addresses and things, but as of now the channel is The Tesla Question.

    Hopefully the rebrand goes better than Royal Mail to Consignia

    Surprised you didn't drop Tesla from the title altogether tbh. Are you 100% focused on Tesla?
    Not 100%, but let’s face it most of the content is me driving the thing. At least now I’m asking the question- should you just get a Tesla? Or are there better alternatives? And then I can look at those as I did recently with Polestar
    Reminds me of how my old venture shooting QVC ads for a jewellery brand came to a sudden end.

    With hindsight maybe going all-in on market-leaders Ratner was a mistake?
    Exactly - I needed to decouple. Problem is that as I can’t shoot loads of content on cars I don’t have access to, it’s predominantly Tesla. And with respect the current Muskolini mania, it will evolve again and the world will move on.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,451

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    If one was to have that chat in a pub and some people took great offence to it, it would cause a fight or riot. Id that ok for you?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,009
    edited April 6

    Whitehall source tells S Times that there are two options for further dramatic cuts in welfare budget (which might be needed thanks to Trumpski).

    One is means testing the disability benefit, PIP.

    The other is looking again at the Triple Lock for pensioners.

    The latter, the source says, no one would go near.

    Madness. Just madness. Will no one grasp this nettle?

    Politically, I think the triple lock stays, unless the IMF tell Britain to get rid of it. Too many millions of people who will be told, repeatedly, by slogans on the side of the bus, how many £s they have personally lost if it goes.

    Given that it will be a crisis that will see the triple lock go, what we will also most likely see is an actual nominal cut to the rate that is paid, because in a crisis the government will need to cut outgoings right now, not just projected increases in outgoings over a 20-year time period.
    I disagree on the bus slogans problem.

    Removing the triple lock will have little or no impact in the short/medium term. You just link it to earnings and you may well find that's the highest of the three anyway, if immigration continues to fall.

    What it does solve is the long term issue of it growing massively over 50+ years. It also helps Labour and future governments if Trump invades Canada etc and they are confronted with the problem of breaking the lock during an inflationary crisis.

    And remember - the value of the triple lock grows more the younger you are. Removing it isn't an attack on current pensioners - this is an attack on my generation. A cost I will bear graciously, as long as PB oldies agree to do something about climate change.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,790
    @washingtonpost.com‬

    A second child has died of measles amid an outbreak in west Texas, sparking a rare rebuke of the Trump administration’s top health officials from a Republican senator on Sunday.

    https://bsky.app/profile/washingtonpost.com/post/3lm62afvrm22w
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,488

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    If one was to have that chat in a pub and some people took great offence to it, it would cause a fight or riot. Id that ok for you?
    People talk in their friendship bubbles. Not unlike the broadly centrist dad culture on pb.
    I am not defending the rather stupid and undoubtedly racist woman who has been rather harshly dealt with. I am suggesting why people are upset at the harshness.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,451

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    If one was to have that chat in a pub and some people took great offence to it, it would cause a fight or riot. Id that ok for you?
    And if it was overheard by a copper, I would expect them to take action. If not it would be dereliction of duty.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,890

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    Equally though, if you went to your town centre and started shouting it out loud at all the random passers-by on a random Tuesday afternoon as they went about their daily business, I think you'd find there were consequences to that too, so not sure "stuff's different on social media" is completely the picture there.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,488

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    If one was to have that chat in a pub and some people took great offence to it, it would cause a fight or riot. Id that ok for you?
    And if it was overheard by a copper, I would expect them to take action. If not it would be dereliction of duty.
    Really? In a pub on a Friday night? I think that’s massively overstating the case.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,754

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    You must drink in some really shit pubs if that's what the chat's like.
    If you don’t believe those pubs exist then I’d suggest you head for some of the rougher areas of our towns and cities.
    Eh? Where did I say those pubs don't exist?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,488

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    Equally though, if you went to your town centre and started shouting it out loud at all the random passers-by on a random Tuesday afternoon as they went about their daily business, I think you'd find there were consequences to that too, so not sure "stuff's different on social media" is completely the picture there.
    People think their socials are their friends though, in the main. Yes if it’s the local Spotted in x Facebook then it’s a bit different.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,200
    Bogota said:

    kle4 said:

    Seems likely

    Given the history of economic mismanagement by authoritarian dictatorships, "likely" is a bit optimistic. There are plenty further ways that he could screw up the economy given that his primary concerns are (1) remaining in power, and, (2) looting as much money for himself personally as possible.
    How long do republicans tolerate this.
    Already too long.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,983
    Scott_xP said:

    @washingtonpost.com‬

    A second child has died of measles amid an outbreak in west Texas, sparking a rare rebuke of the Trump administration’s top health officials from a Republican senator on Sunday.

    https://bsky.app/profile/washingtonpost.com/post/3lm62afvrm22w

    RFK should really be locked up for criminal negligence. That is just awful.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,488

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    You must drink in some really shit pubs if that's what the chat's like.
    If you don’t believe those pubs exist then I’d suggest you head for some of the rougher areas of our towns and cities.
    Eh? Where did I say those pubs don't exist?
    Nowhere, but I also wasn’t suggesting I drink in said pubs.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,488
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @washingtonpost.com‬

    A second child has died of measles amid an outbreak in west Texas, sparking a rare rebuke of the Trump administration’s top health officials from a Republican senator on Sunday.

    https://bsky.app/profile/washingtonpost.com/post/3lm62afvrm22w

    RFK should really be locked up for criminal negligence. That is just awful.
    He has been in post since Jan. These kids will have been unvaccinated for a lot longer than that and often for stupid sky fairy reasons. There’s a lot to lay at his door, but these deaths are probably not the thing, unless they contracted it at an RFK themed measles party.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,451

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    If one was to have that chat in a pub and some people took great offence to it, it would cause a fight or riot. Id that ok for you?
    And if it was overheard by a copper, I would expect them to take action. If not it would be dereliction of duty.
    Really? In a pub on a Friday night? I think that’s massively overstating the case.
    If I heard it I'd call the police.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,488

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    If one was to have that chat in a pub and some people took great offence to it, it would cause a fight or riot. Id that ok for you?
    And if it was overheard by a copper, I would expect them to take action. If not it would be dereliction of duty.
    Really? In a pub on a Friday night? I think that’s massively overstating the case.
    If I heard it I'd call the police.
    For real? Blimey.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,367
    Bogota said:

    kle4 said:

    Seems likely

    Given the history of economic mismanagement by authoritarian dictatorships, "likely" is a bit optimistic. There are plenty further ways that he could screw up the economy given that his primary concerns are (1) remaining in power, and, (2) looting as much money for himself personally as possible.
    How long do republicans tolerate this.
    Those who were interested in resisting gave up or were beat down long ago. All those remaining are in it for life. You might get 1-2 in the House suggesting some mistakes, and probably criticising the King's advisers rather than the king himself, but that's it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,281
    nico67 said:

    https://x.com/lucasfoxnews/status/1908900999449763931

    Peter Navarro responds to Vietnam’s offer to remove all tariffs: “This is not a negotiation. This is a national emergency based on a trade deficit that’s gotten out of control because of cheating,” Trump’s trade adviser says on @SundayFutures. “Don’t say you want to lower the tariffs and be done with it. It’s the non-tariff cheating. Stop manipulating your currencies. Stop dumping stuff in.”

    Navarro has delusions that’s he’s some expert on tariffs .
    All Trump's "tariff experts" are the world's finest at moon-howling.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,451

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    If one was to have that chat in a pub and some people took great offence to it, it would cause a fight or riot. Id that ok for you?
    And if it was overheard by a copper, I would expect them to take action. If not it would be dereliction of duty.
    Really? In a pub on a Friday night? I think that’s massively overstating the case.
    If I heard it I'd call the police.
    For real? Blimey.
    and why not? For god sake, there are too many people in this country who get away with blue murder. It only takes one to build it up for thick, stupid people in the pub. They say things then wash their hands of any culpability.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,554

    Pro_Rata said:

    Bogota said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Bogota said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Its interesting you have become much more anti immigration recently. Cant help but think this is related to the massive demographic change at your daughters school.
    Mm. This isn't really an immigration post - I'm expressing discomfort at the
    eagerness of the state to criminalise
    speech of any sort. Including, note, speech I disagree with.

    And I've always been pretty sceptical of a) the economic arguments for immigration, which I don't think stack up, and b) the principle of multiculturalism. This isn't a new thing! That said, I'm also very positive about the impact of certain immigrants eg many of the HK immigrants, who are generally highly skilled, Anglophone, and quick to integrate. So it's not a black and white issue.

    That said, you are right in the respect that I have noticed previously impeccably Guardianista individuals at the school gate start to express a lot more reservations now the impacts are much closer to home!
    Your Guardianista fellow parents are wankers. Sorry, but it is true. I despise them

    The inability to see the terrible downsides of mass immigration for OTHERS in Britain (usually poorer, less well educated, less mobile) is a basic failure of Theory of Mind, common in the autistic or the dogmatic; they cannot think themselves into other people's lives or they cannot see beyond their own perceived virtue

    Until it hits them for real, and in person

    Fools and knaves, the lot of them. They are why Europe is headed for a grimly Hard Right future, whatever Trump does
    I actually think they get a secret thrill from poor peoples lives being made worse by mass immigration. Cruelty combined with virtue signalling is an unbeatable combination. The kinabalu types.
    Sorry, but if your criminality, and there is clear incitement in that speech, is in any way associated with riot you get the book thrown at you, whether you are strolling out with a bottle of water or casually encouraging people to set
    fire of hotels full of immigrants. It was true in 2010 as it was in 2024, because we cannot tolerate riot becoming normalized in an area.

    And they are still at it. This week in Huddersfield a 16 year old lad of Syrian origin 16 died having had his neck slit on a town centre thoroughfare in broad daylight. The arrestee was a EDOTING
    I have no idea what EDOTING means.
    I lost the ability to efficiently scroll to the bottom of the comment to add more whilst posting.

    So I posted the comment then set about EDITING in vf, with a misspelled placeholder.

    I then overran the 6 minutes editing time, so had to copy and paste into a separate post.

    All whilst going on a (imo merited) rant.

    But, yes, not a neatly published comment there!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,488
    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Bogota said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Bogota said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Its interesting you have become much more anti immigration recently. Cant help but think this is related to the massive demographic change at your daughters school.
    Mm. This isn't really an immigration post - I'm expressing discomfort at the
    eagerness of the state to criminalise
    speech of any sort. Including, note, speech I disagree with.

    And I've always been pretty sceptical of a) the economic arguments for immigration, which I don't think stack up, and b) the principle of multiculturalism. This isn't a new thing! That said, I'm also very positive about the impact of certain immigrants eg many of the HK immigrants, who are generally highly skilled, Anglophone, and quick to integrate. So it's not a black and white issue.

    That said, you are right in the respect that I have noticed previously impeccably Guardianista individuals at the school gate start to express a lot more reservations now the impacts are much closer to home!
    Your Guardianista fellow parents are wankers. Sorry, but it is true. I despise them

    The inability to see the terrible downsides of mass immigration for OTHERS in Britain (usually poorer, less well educated, less mobile) is a basic failure of Theory of Mind, common in the autistic or the dogmatic; they cannot think themselves into other people's lives or they cannot see beyond their own perceived virtue

    Until it hits them for real, and in person

    Fools and knaves, the lot of them. They are why Europe is headed for a grimly Hard Right future, whatever Trump does
    I actually think they get a secret thrill from poor peoples lives being made worse by mass immigration. Cruelty combined with virtue signalling is an unbeatable combination. The kinabalu types.
    Sorry, but if your criminality, and there is clear incitement in that speech, is in any way associated with riot you get the book thrown at you, whether you are strolling out with a bottle of water or casually encouraging people to set
    fire of hotels full of immigrants. It was true in 2010 as it was in 2024, because we cannot tolerate riot becoming normalized in an area.

    And they are still at it. This week in Huddersfield a 16 year old lad of Syrian origin 16 died having had his neck slit on a town centre thoroughfare in broad daylight. The arrestee was a EDOTING
    I have no idea what EDOTING means.
    I lost the ability to efficiently scroll to the bottom of the comment to add more whilst posting.

    So I posted the comment then set about EDITING in vf, with a misspelled placeholder.

    I then overran the 6 minutes editing time, so had to copy and paste into a separate post.

    All whilst going on a (imo merited) rant.

    But, yes, not a neatly published comment there!
    Aha! I thought it was an unknown category of right wing racist or something! You can imagine my contortions (English Defence Or Terrorist In New Guise?)
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,574
    Eabhal said:

    Whitehall source tells S Times that there are two options for further dramatic cuts in welfare budget (which might be needed thanks to Trumpski).

    One is means testing the disability benefit, PIP.

    The other is looking again at the Triple Lock for pensioners.

    The latter, the source says, no one would go near.

    Madness. Just madness. Will no one grasp this nettle?

    Politically, I think the triple lock stays, unless the IMF tell Britain to get rid of it. Too many millions of people who will be told, repeatedly, by slogans on the side of the bus, how many £s they have personally lost if it goes.

    Given that it will be a crisis that will see the triple lock go, what we will also most likely see is an actual nominal cut to the rate that is paid, because in a crisis the government will need to cut outgoings right now, not just projected increases in outgoings over a 20-year time period.
    I disagree on the bus slogans problem.

    Removing the triple lock will have little or no impact in the short/medium term. You just link it to earnings and you may well find that's the highest of the three anyway, if immigration continues to fall.

    What it does solve is the long term issue of it growing massively over 50+ years. It also helps Labour and future governments if Trump invades Canada etc and they are confronted with the problem of breaking the lock during an inflationary crisis.

    And remember - the value of the triple lock grows more the younger you are. Removing it isn't an attack on current pensioners - this is an attack on my generation. A cost I will bear graciously, as long as PB oldies agree to do something about climate change.
    Furthermore the Triple Lock must be abandoned sooner or later or pensions will eventually engulf the whole economy.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,451

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @washingtonpost.com‬

    A second child has died of measles amid an outbreak in west Texas, sparking a rare rebuke of the Trump administration’s top health officials from a Republican senator on Sunday.

    https://bsky.app/profile/washingtonpost.com/post/3lm62afvrm22w

    RFK should really be locked up for criminal negligence. That is just awful.
    He has been in post since Jan. These kids will have been unvaccinated for a lot longer than that and often for stupid sky fairy reasons. There’s a lot to lay at his door, but these deaths are probably not the thing, unless they contracted it at an RFK themed measles party.
    just excuses..
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,575

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    You must drink in some really shit pubs if that's what the chat's like.
    If you don’t believe those pubs exist then I’d suggest you head for some of the rougher areas of our towns and cities.
    I stay in one of the most deprived council wards in the UK and I've never heard anything like that in the 30+ years I've lived here.

    Maybe I need to hang out with the middle-classes more.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,733
    edited April 6

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    If one was to have that chat in a pub and some people took great offence to it, it would cause a fight or riot. Id that ok for you?
    And if it was overheard by a copper, I would expect them to take action. If not it would be dereliction of duty.
    Really? In a pub on a Friday night? I think that’s massively overstating the case.
    If I heard it I'd call the police.
    For real? Blimey.
    and why not? For god sake, there are too many people in this country who get away with blue murder. It only takes one to build it up for thick, stupid people in the pub. They say things then wash their hands of any culpability.
    I don't think you can treat pub talk among friends in the same way as a tweet broadcast to and read by thousands of people, given that the latter has a far higher chance of inciting actual violence. The size and impressionability of the audience has got to be a factor.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,009

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    If one was to have that chat in a pub and some people took great offence to it, it would cause a fight or riot. Id that ok for you?
    And if it was overheard by a copper, I would expect them to take action. If not it would be dereliction of duty.
    Really? In a pub on a Friday night? I think that’s massively overstating the case.
    If I heard it I'd call the police.
    I wouldn't. But that's because the chance of some idiot overhearing and actually setting fire to asylum seekers based on such drunken ramblings is vanishingly small.

    The problem with social media is your post can end up with millions of views (as one of my mine did, ruining my life for a week), and the 1% of the population who might actually do something stops being one weirdo at the bar but rather 400,000 people riling each other up.

    Advocating violence on public social media is much, much worse than in a pub, imo.
  • lintolinto Posts: 45

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Bogota said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Bogota said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Its interesting you have become much more anti immigration recently. Cant help but think this is related to the massive demographic change at your daughters school.
    Mm. This isn't really an immigration post - I'm expressing discomfort at the
    eagerness of the state to criminalise
    speech of any sort. Including, note, speech I disagree with.

    And I've always been pretty sceptical of a) the economic arguments for immigration, which I don't think stack up, and b) the principle of multiculturalism. This isn't a new thing! That said, I'm also very positive about the impact of certain immigrants eg many of the HK immigrants, who are generally highly skilled, Anglophone, and quick to integrate. So it's not a black and white issue.

    That said, you are right in the respect that I have noticed previously impeccably Guardianista individuals at the school gate start to express a lot more reservations now the impacts are much closer to home!
    Your Guardianista fellow parents are wankers. Sorry, but it is true. I despise them

    The inability to see the terrible downsides of mass immigration for OTHERS in Britain (usually poorer, less well educated, less mobile) is a basic failure of Theory of Mind, common in the autistic or the dogmatic; they cannot think themselves into other people's lives or they cannot see beyond their own perceived virtue

    Until it hits them for real, and in person

    Fools and knaves, the lot of them. They are why Europe is headed for a grimly Hard Right future, whatever Trump does
    I actually think they get a secret thrill from poor peoples lives being made worse by mass immigration. Cruelty combined with virtue signalling is an unbeatable combination. The kinabalu types.
    Sorry, but if your criminality, and there is clear incitement in that speech, is in any way associated with riot you get the book thrown at you, whether you are strolling out with a bottle of water or casually encouraging people to set
    fire of hotels full of immigrants. It was true in 2010 as it was in 2024, because we cannot tolerate riot becoming normalized in an area.

    And they are still at it. This week in Huddersfield a 16 year old lad of Syrian origin 16 died having had his neck slit on a town centre thoroughfare in broad daylight. The arrestee was a EDOTING
    I have no idea what EDOTING means.
    I lost the ability to efficiently scroll to the bottom of the comment to add more whilst posting.

    So I posted the comment then set about EDITING in vf, with a misspelled placeholder.

    I then overran the 6 minutes editing time, so had to copy and paste into a separate post.

    All whilst going on a (imo merited) rant.

    But, yes, not a neatly published comment there!
    Aha! I thought it was an unknown category of right wing racist or something! You can imagine my contortions (English Defence Or Terrorist In New Guise?)
    I think people forget that social media is open for all to see, so thing that used to be said in closed groups of friends (with the associates groans) now gets broadcast far and wide meaning what was once a controversial statement is now incitement due to it's far wider reach. It's something that we often forget if we only see our little bubble on social media.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,882

    Whitehall source tells S Times that there are two options for further dramatic cuts in welfare budget (which might be needed thanks to Trumpski).

    One is means testing the disability benefit, PIP.

    The other is looking again at the Triple Lock for pensioners.

    The latter, the source says, no one would go near.

    Madness. Just madness. Will no one grasp this nettle?

    Breaking the triple lock will save no money in the short term. Ending higher rate tax relief on contributions will save a ton of money every month right from day one, but this perk favours the well-paid like MPs, newspaper columnists and, dare I say, PBers, so no-one calls for it.
    Making NI payable on unearned and pension income would be the simplest, fairest way to raise extra funds.
    It might be fair but is not quite simple because it would break the link between NI and qualification for the state pension. It is doable but would need some thinking about unless HMG is happy for everyone to qualify.

    Which it might be. Another pension loophole was mentioned the other day. The facility to pay additional NICs in order to qualify for a state pension is not restricted to those living here. Anyone who has worked here for three years before returning home can do this.

    Bizarre loophole lets foreign residents claim full UK state pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/pensions/state-pensions/bizarre-loophole-lets-foreign-residents-claim-uk-pension/ (£££)
    No it wouldn't break that link, all those who pay NI could gain qualifying years.

    Removing NI or rolling it into ICT would break the link but I have a hunch that even the Oxbridge Firsts at the Treasury might work out that it's possible to start counting years in which a person pays ICT as 'qualifying years' in future.
    Yes but if people receiving the state pension are paying NI on it, what will that be qualifying them for? As I said, breaking the link is doable but will need some thought.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,451

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    If one was to have that chat in a pub and some people took great offence to it, it would cause a fight or riot. Id that ok for you?
    And if it was overheard by a copper, I would expect them to take action. If not it would be dereliction of duty.
    Really? In a pub on a Friday night? I think that’s massively overstating the case.
    If I heard it I'd call the police.
    For real? Blimey.
    and why not? For god sake, there are too many people in this country who get away with blue murder. It only takes one to build it up for thick, stupid people in the pub. They say things then wash their hands of any culpability.
    I don't think you can treat pub talk among friends in the same way as a tweet broadcast to and read by thousands of people, given that the latter has a far higher chance of inciting actual violence.
    I wouldn't take the chance. Vermin like that spread foul poison.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,453

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @washingtonpost.com‬

    A second child has died of measles amid an outbreak in west Texas, sparking a rare rebuke of the Trump administration’s top health officials from a Republican senator on Sunday.

    https://bsky.app/profile/washingtonpost.com/post/3lm62afvrm22w

    RFK should really be locked up for criminal negligence. That is just awful.
    He has been in post since Jan. These kids will have been unvaccinated for a lot longer than that and often for stupid sky fairy reasons. There’s a lot to lay at his door, but these deaths are probably not the thing, unless they contracted it at an RFK themed measles party.
    He's culpable for the people hurt by vit. A overdoses: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/25/health/measles-kennedy-vitamin-a.html
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,200

    Whitehall source tells S Times that there are two options for further dramatic cuts in welfare budget (which might be needed thanks to Trumpski).

    One is means testing the disability benefit, PIP.

    The other is looking again at the Triple Lock for pensioners.

    The latter, the source says, no one would go near.

    Madness. Just madness. Will no one grasp this nettle?

    Breaking the triple lock will save no money in the short term. Ending higher rate tax relief on contributions will save a ton of money every month right from day one, but this perk favours the well-paid like MPs, newspaper columnists and, dare I say, PBers, so no-one calls for it.
    Making NI payable on unearned and pension income would be the simplest, fairest way to raise extra funds.
    It might be fair but is not quite simple because it would break the link between NI and qualification for the state pension. It is doable but would need some thinking about unless HMG is happy for everyone to qualify.

    Which it might be. Another pension loophole was mentioned the other day. The facility to pay additional NICs in order to qualify for a state pension is not restricted to those living here. Anyone who has worked here for three years before returning home can do this.

    Bizarre loophole lets foreign residents claim full UK state pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/pensions/state-pensions/bizarre-loophole-lets-foreign-residents-claim-uk-pension/ (£££)
    No it wouldn't break that link, all those who pay NI could gain qualifying years.

    Removing NI or rolling it into ICT would break the link but I have a hunch that even the Oxbridge Firsts at the Treasury might work out that it's possible to start counting years in which a person pays ICT as 'qualifying years' in future.
    Yes but if people receiving the state pension are paying NI on it, what will that be qualifying them for? As I said, breaking the link is doable but will need some thought.
    It won't be qualifying them for anything, any more than those working and paying NI who already have the full 35 qualifying years - their NI qualifies them for nothing extra.

    NI is just a tax.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,754

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    I wonder if Jewish places of worship were being attacked by mobs, would ‘Set fire to all of the fucking synagogues full of the bastards...’ be counted as twitter banter?
    I'm not sure of your point. But no, I'd expect the law to intervene.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,575

    After two and half years and 200 videos my YouTube channel name change has gone live. I’m leaving the @justgetatesla URL in place briefly whilst I sort out email addresses and things, but as of now the channel is The Tesla Question.

    Hopefully the rebrand goes better than Royal Mail to Consignia

    Linky? When I search for the title on YT I just get lots of weird alt-right videos. I hate to think what my 'Recommended for you' will be like in an hour or so...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,488
    edited April 6

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @washingtonpost.com‬

    A second child has died of measles amid an outbreak in west Texas, sparking a rare rebuke of the Trump administration’s top health officials from a Republican senator on Sunday.

    https://bsky.app/profile/washingtonpost.com/post/3lm62afvrm22w

    RFK should really be locked up for criminal negligence. That is just awful.
    He has been in post since Jan. These kids will have been unvaccinated for a lot longer than that and often for stupid sky fairy reasons. There’s a lot to lay at his door, but these deaths are probably not the thing, unless they contracted it at an RFK themed measles party.
    He's culpable for the people hurt by vit. A overdoses: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/25/health/measles-kennedy-vitamin-a.html
    To an extent but people also need to do their own research. Perhaps ask a health care professional?

    Extra bit - would you trust ANYTHING a U.K. minister advocated on health without checking?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,451
    Eabhal said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    It’s the kind a chat that you would have down the pub with no consequence,* but people have failed to notice how the world has changed. You cannot post anything on socials with no consequence. There are certainly concerns that person x gets the book thrown at them and person y does not, but theme the breaks.

    *I wouldn’t be making those remarks, to be clear.
    If one was to have that chat in a pub and some people took great offence to it, it would cause a fight or riot. Id that ok for you?
    And if it was overheard by a copper, I would expect them to take action. If not it would be dereliction of duty.
    Really? In a pub on a Friday night? I think that’s massively overstating the case.
    If I heard it I'd call the police.
    I wouldn't. But that's because the chance of some idiot overhearing and actually setting fire to asylum seekers based on such drunken ramblings is vanishingly small.

    The problem with social media is your post can end up with millions of views (as one of my mine did, ruining my life for a week), and the 1% of the population who might actually do something stops being one weirdo at the bar but rather 400,000 people riling each other up.

    Advocating violence on public social media is much, much worse than in a pub, imo.
    Maybe you're right. Sorry to hear about your prob though.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,453

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @washingtonpost.com‬

    A second child has died of measles amid an outbreak in west Texas, sparking a rare rebuke of the Trump administration’s top health officials from a Republican senator on Sunday.

    https://bsky.app/profile/washingtonpost.com/post/3lm62afvrm22w

    RFK should really be locked up for criminal negligence. That is just awful.
    He has been in post since Jan. These kids will have been unvaccinated for a lot longer than that and often for stupid sky fairy reasons. There’s a lot to lay at his door, but these deaths are probably not the thing, unless they contracted it at an RFK themed measles party.
    He's culpable for the people hurt by vit. A overdoses: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/25/health/measles-kennedy-vitamin-a.html
    To an extent but people also need to do their own research. Perhaps ask a health care professional?

    Extra bit - would you trust ANYTHING a U.K. minister advocated on health without checking?
    I don't think it's fair to criticise people for believing in health advice from the Secretary of Health of their nation. It is fair to criticise that Secretary of Health for spreading harmful lies.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,736

    nico67 said:

    https://x.com/lucasfoxnews/status/1908900999449763931

    Peter Navarro responds to Vietnam’s offer to remove all tariffs: “This is not a negotiation. This is a national emergency based on a trade deficit that’s gotten out of control because of cheating,” Trump’s trade adviser says on @SundayFutures. “Don’t say you want to lower the tariffs and be done with it. It’s the non-tariff cheating. Stop manipulating your currencies. Stop dumping stuff in.”

    Navarro has delusions that’s he’s some expert on tariffs .
    All Trump's "tariff experts" are the world's finest at moon-howling.
    If they want to start Vietnam War II, “this time it’s economic” they may find the long term outcome is not dissimilar from the last one.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,451

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Was the tweet a one off? Or was it part of a pattern of behaviour?

    The sentencing comments at https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/R-v-Lucy-Connolly.pdf describe “other tweets” which made “further racist remarks” sent before and after.
    The report says she deleted the tweet that got her in trouble within 4hrs. I wonder if all the others that were deemed racist were sent around the same time and also deleted, or was this a prolonged behaviour?
    A couple of us have linked it. The main one mentioned:

    At 8.30pm on the 29th July of this year you used the social media platform, then known as Twitter, to publish the following:

    “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care, while you’re at it take the treacherous government and politicians with them. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it”

    When you published those words you were well aware of how volatile the situation was. As everyone is aware, that volatility led to serious disorder in a number of areas of the country where mindless violence was used to cause injury and damage to wholly innocent members of the public and to their properties.
    ...
    Your message was widely read – it was viewed 310,000 times with 940 reposts, 58 quotes and 113 bookmarks.
    That's it? She was jailed for two years for that? I've seen Palestinian activists make rather more incendiary comments about Jews without similar repurcussions.

    Your regular reminder that free speech also includes free speech we disapprove of.
    You are free to report said Palestinian activists to the police, if you should so wish. That others get away with crimes is not a reason to go lightly on those who were caught.

    And, no, she has been jailed for one year (40% of 31 months).
    You're missing half the point. Free speech means things we defend the right of people to say things we don't like. I no more want to see angry lefties jailed for spouting shite than angry righties.
    The inconsistency is annoying, but nit as annoying as the general principle.
    Incitement to violence has been a criminal offence since the 1986 Public Order Act. Are you saying you'd like to see that law repealed?
    No, I just don't see either the woman's tweet or the equivalents from angry anti-Israel activists meets the bar of incitement to violence.
    "Set fire to all of the fucking hotels full of the bastards....", she wrote.

    You must have a very high bar for incitement to violence.
    I wonder if Jewish places of worship were being attacked by mobs, would ‘Set fire to all of the fucking synagogues full of the bastards...’ be counted as twitter banter?
    it shouldn't.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,561
    TimS said:

    nico67 said:

    https://x.com/lucasfoxnews/status/1908900999449763931

    Peter Navarro responds to Vietnam’s offer to remove all tariffs: “This is not a negotiation. This is a national emergency based on a trade deficit that’s gotten out of control because of cheating,” Trump’s trade adviser says on @SundayFutures. “Don’t say you want to lower the tariffs and be done with it. It’s the non-tariff cheating. Stop manipulating your currencies. Stop dumping stuff in.”

    Navarro has delusions that’s he’s some expert on tariffs .
    All Trump's "tariff experts" are the world's finest at moon-howling.
    If they want to start Vietnam War II, “this time it’s economic” they may find the long term outcome is not dissimilar from the last one.
    The cheap goods will keep coming so they'll resort to bombing the factories?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,488

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @washingtonpost.com‬

    A second child has died of measles amid an outbreak in west Texas, sparking a rare rebuke of the Trump administration’s top health officials from a Republican senator on Sunday.

    https://bsky.app/profile/washingtonpost.com/post/3lm62afvrm22w

    RFK should really be locked up for criminal negligence. That is just awful.
    He has been in post since Jan. These kids will have been unvaccinated for a lot longer than that and often for stupid sky fairy reasons. There’s a lot to lay at his door, but these deaths are probably not the thing, unless they contracted it at an RFK themed measles party.
    He's culpable for the people hurt by vit. A overdoses: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/25/health/measles-kennedy-vitamin-a.html
    To an extent but people also need to do their own research. Perhaps ask a health care professional?

    Extra bit - would you trust ANYTHING a U.K. minister advocated on health without checking?
    I don't think it's fair to criticise people for believing in health advice from the Secretary of Health of their nation. It is fair to criticise that Secretary of Health for spreading harmful lies.
    As do I. He is an idiot who doesn’t understand science.

    For context though we saw lots of people not believing what our elected officials said during covid, for instance (often with good reason).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,992

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @washingtonpost.com‬

    A second child has died of measles amid an outbreak in west Texas, sparking a rare rebuke of the Trump administration’s top health officials from a Republican senator on Sunday.

    https://bsky.app/profile/washingtonpost.com/post/3lm62afvrm22w

    RFK should really be locked up for criminal negligence. That is just awful.
    He has been in post since Jan. These kids will have been unvaccinated for a lot longer than that and often for stupid sky fairy reasons. There’s a lot to lay at his door, but these deaths are probably not the thing, unless they contracted it at an RFK themed measles party.
    He's culpable for the people hurt by vit. A overdoses: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/25/health/measles-kennedy-vitamin-a.html
    To an extent but people also need to do their own research. Perhaps ask a health care professional?
    For the educated middle classes, fine, but for red neck trailer dwellers they are likely to be more reliant on advice given by the Surgeon General.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,488

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @washingtonpost.com‬

    A second child has died of measles amid an outbreak in west Texas, sparking a rare rebuke of the Trump administration’s top health officials from a Republican senator on Sunday.

    https://bsky.app/profile/washingtonpost.com/post/3lm62afvrm22w

    RFK should really be locked up for criminal negligence. That is just awful.
    He has been in post since Jan. These kids will have been unvaccinated for a lot longer than that and often for stupid sky fairy reasons. There’s a lot to lay at his door, but these deaths are probably not the thing, unless they contracted it at an RFK themed measles party.
    He's culpable for the people hurt by vit. A overdoses: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/25/health/measles-kennedy-vitamin-a.html
    To an extent but people also need to do their own research. Perhaps ask a health care professional?
    For the educated middle classes, fine, but for red neck trailer dwellers they are likely to be more reliant on advice given by the Surgeon General.
    A bit condescending, no?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,677
    ohnotnow said:

    After two and half years and 200 videos my YouTube channel name change has gone live. I’m leaving the @justgetatesla URL in place briefly whilst I sort out email addresses and things, but as of now the channel is The Tesla Question.

    Hopefully the rebrand goes better than Royal Mail to Consignia

    Linky? When I search for the title on YT I just get lots of weird alt-right videos. I hate to think what my 'Recommended for you' will be like in an hour or so...
    Name change has been live for about an hour. And still using the old url YouTube.com/@justgetatesla
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,453

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @washingtonpost.com‬

    A second child has died of measles amid an outbreak in west Texas, sparking a rare rebuke of the Trump administration’s top health officials from a Republican senator on Sunday.

    https://bsky.app/profile/washingtonpost.com/post/3lm62afvrm22w

    RFK should really be locked up for criminal negligence. That is just awful.
    He has been in post since Jan. These kids will have been unvaccinated for a lot longer than that and often for stupid sky fairy reasons. There’s a lot to lay at his door, but these deaths are probably not the thing, unless they contracted it at an RFK themed measles party.
    He's culpable for the people hurt by vit. A overdoses: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/25/health/measles-kennedy-vitamin-a.html
    To an extent but people also need to do their own research. Perhaps ask a health care professional?

    Extra bit - would you trust ANYTHING a U.K. minister advocated on health without checking?
    I don't think it's fair to criticise people for believing in health advice from the Secretary of Health of their nation. It is fair to criticise that Secretary of Health for spreading harmful lies.
    As do I. He is an idiot who doesn’t understand science.

    For context though we saw lots of people not believing what our elected officials said during covid, for instance (often with good reason).
    I'm lost what point you are trying to make. But, even if we can't agree on RFK Jr's exact degree of culpability, I'm glad we agree that he is at least somewhat culpable for causing harm to people now overdosing on vitamin A and for failing to contain a measles outbreak that has killed 3.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,328

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @washingtonpost.com‬

    A second child has died of measles amid an outbreak in west Texas, sparking a rare rebuke of the Trump administration’s top health officials from a Republican senator on Sunday.

    https://bsky.app/profile/washingtonpost.com/post/3lm62afvrm22w

    RFK should really be locked up for criminal negligence. That is just awful.
    He has been in post since Jan. These kids will have been unvaccinated for a lot longer than that and often for stupid sky fairy reasons. There’s a lot to lay at his door, but these deaths are probably not the thing, unless they contracted it at an RFK themed measles party.
    He's culpable for the people hurt by vit. A overdoses: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/25/health/measles-kennedy-vitamin-a.html
    To an extent but people also need to do their own research. Perhaps ask a health care professional?

    Extra bit - would you trust ANYTHING a U.K. minister advocated on health without checking?
    How much would vaccination cost them in the US though, and can they afford it?
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