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Punters agree with Farage – politicalbetting.com

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  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,468
    edited March 16
    Roger said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    On topic, talking of competent administrators..

    Reform UK candidate who praised Hitler and Assad put in charge of vetting
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/mar/16/reform-uk-candidate-who-praised-hitler-and-assad-put-in-charge-of-vetting
    ...Aaron made the comments as part of a pseudoscientific theory of personality types. He is the president of the self-styled World Socionics Society – a group promoting the idea that there are 16 personality types.

    However, while he was one of many Reform candidates whose comments caused controversy and led to many being sacked, he is now head of vetting at Reform UK.

    The role includes scouring prospective candidates’ social media outputs and advising them on what should be deleted.

    Reform UK’s leader, Nigel Farage, told his party conference in September that it would be vetting candidates “rigorously at all levels” in future after more than 100 were removed before the general election..

    ...Days after Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Aaron said that those who called Putin insane “do not understand him and limit their ability to oppose him”.

    He said: “The motivation to acquire and wield force is legitimate, and there is a whole group of personality types inclined to this, and they have historically shaped the world we live in.”

    In a comment on Reddit, he said that Assad was “gentle by nature” and not “some bloodthirsty tyrant who exercises control over his people with an iron fist”, adding that the dictator had been “led astray” by social stereotyping...

    Whilst his comments on Assad are just weird, his comments on Putin might, from an academic point of view, be considered valid. Simply dismissing someone like Putin as insane does indeed limit ones ability to oppose him because too many people equate insanity with lackof logical thought. That means his opponents may well underestimate him. He is also sadly correct about personality types (whether 16 or 6,000 I have no idea) who are motivated to acquire and wield force and how they dominate history.

    I see nothing in those specific comments on Putin that excuses or supports him. Simply making observations which appear to me to be unfortunately, quite valid.
    I think "president of the self-styled World Socionics Society" is more damaging. That's like Bobby J standing up in Parliament and asserting that the Qabbalah, or Theosophy, had a lot of the answers we all need to hear.

    It's not David Icke and his Space Lizards, or blaming the Djinn, but it's on the same spectrum. Doing Ouija board for fun or a hobby is OK and would be accepted; it's when it is made a basis for public philosophy or policy or a serious lens for interpreting history that it becomes clear that he is off his trolley.

    It suggests Farage is at home with fruitcakes and loonies, as well as closet racists.

    IMO Putin is ruthless and rational, and a very experienced manipulator who has Mr Trump wrapped around his little finger.
    Is Socionics so terrible? It might not be theoretically validated but there could be some truth in it. Would you be so sniffy about the baseless claims of major world religions? No I thought not.

    The comments on Assad are similar to what the BBC's sainted John Simpson had to say (don't remember the Guardian hit piece) and I've not read the article but if that is the sum of it then it's pretty thin gruel from a badly declining paper.
    I think you could have squeezed at least another two cliches into that post
    Fox Talbot and Niepce being big fans of the cliché.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,961
    edited March 16
    Triggernometry interview with Boris
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxKy1r9quyE

    Given the link in the header, Boris looks very much these days yesterday's man....most leaders age terribly during their time in power, Boris has aged terribly post being leader.

    So its Bobby J, then what for the Tories?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,063

    Triggernometry interview with Boris
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxKy1r9quyE

    Given the link in the header, Boris looks very much these days yesterday's man....most leaders age terribly during their time in power, Boris has aged terribly post being leader.

    So its Bobby J, then what for the Tories?

    I feel like Boris could have had a good post premiership. Plenty of people felt he was hard done by (not me), and given how badly things went they could make the case the party would have done better with him at its head, or he could have leaned into a pro-Ukrainian booster position before Trump made that unfashionable among conservatives who struggled to support him and Ukraine at the same time. Instead it seems like even his column (is he still doing one?) has barely made a splash.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,119
    TimS said:

    Roger said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    On topic, talking of competent administrators..

    Reform UK candidate who praised Hitler and Assad put in charge of vetting
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/mar/16/reform-uk-candidate-who-praised-hitler-and-assad-put-in-charge-of-vetting
    ...Aaron made the comments as part of a pseudoscientific theory of personality types. He is the president of the self-styled World Socionics Society – a group promoting the idea that there are 16 personality types.

    However, while he was one of many Reform candidates whose comments caused controversy and led to many being sacked, he is now head of vetting at Reform UK.

    The role includes scouring prospective candidates’ social media outputs and advising them on what should be deleted.

    Reform UK’s leader, Nigel Farage, told his party conference in September that it would be vetting candidates “rigorously at all levels” in future after more than 100 were removed before the general election..

    ...Days after Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Aaron said that those who called Putin insane “do not understand him and limit their ability to oppose him”.

    He said: “The motivation to acquire and wield force is legitimate, and there is a whole group of personality types inclined to this, and they have historically shaped the world we live in.”

    In a comment on Reddit, he said that Assad was “gentle by nature” and not “some bloodthirsty tyrant who exercises control over his people with an iron fist”, adding that the dictator had been “led astray” by social stereotyping...

    Whilst his comments on Assad are just weird, his comments on Putin might, from an academic point of view, be considered valid. Simply dismissing someone like Putin as insane does indeed limit ones ability to oppose him because too many people equate insanity with lackof logical thought. That means his opponents may well underestimate him. He is also sadly correct about personality types (whether 16 or 6,000 I have no idea) who are motivated to acquire and wield force and how they dominate history.

    I see nothing in those specific comments on Putin that excuses or supports him. Simply making observations which appear to me to be unfortunately, quite valid.
    I think "president of the self-styled World Socionics Society" is more damaging. That's like Bobby J standing up in Parliament and asserting that the Qabbalah, or Theosophy, had a lot of the answers we all need to hear.

    It's not David Icke and his Space Lizards, or blaming the Djinn, but it's on the same spectrum. Doing Ouija board for fun or a hobby is OK and would be accepted; it's when it is made a basis for public philosophy or policy or a serious lens for interpreting history that it becomes clear that he is off his trolley.

    It suggests Farage is at home with fruitcakes and loonies, as well as closet racists.

    IMO Putin is ruthless and rational, and a very experienced manipulator who has Mr Trump wrapped around his little finger.
    Is Socionics so terrible? It might not be theoretically validated but there could be some truth in it. Would you be so sniffy about the baseless claims of major world religions? No I thought not.

    The comments on Assad are similar to what the BBC's sainted John Simpson had to say (don't remember the Guardian hit piece) and I've not read the article but if that is the sum of it then it's pretty thin gruel from a badly declining paper.
    I think you could have squeezed at least another two cliches into that post
    Fox Talbot and Niepce being big fans of the cliché.
    On the subject of photography one of my favourite photos of about that time....

    https://news.artnet.com/art-world/oldest-photograph-of-a-human-is-back-in-the-spotlight-159766
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,977
    Dominic Cummings is a cu*t of epic proportions. Woukd you trust him with anything....if you say yes you are a fool.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,961
    edited March 16
    kle4 said:

    Triggernometry interview with Boris
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxKy1r9quyE

    Given the link in the header, Boris looks very much these days yesterday's man....most leaders age terribly during their time in power, Boris has aged terribly post being leader.

    So its Bobby J, then what for the Tories?

    I feel like Boris could have had a good post premiership. Plenty of people felt he was hard done by (not me), and given how badly things went they could make the case the party would have done better with him at its head, or he could have leaned into a pro-Ukrainian booster position before Trump made that unfashionable among conservatives who struggled to support him and Ukraine at the same time. Instead it seems like even his column (is he still doing one?) has barely made a splash.
    I hope GB News didn't give him money upfront....

    The suspicion with Mail deal was they were giving him a load of dosh so he would give them the exclusive on his memoir, which they did, but no idea if they made their money back on that.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,866

    Dominic Cummings is a cu*t of epic proportions. Woukd you trust him with anything....if you say yes you are a fool.

    I might.

    If, for example, an automated bus stop was set up on Rockall, he might be equal to running that.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,200
    ydoethur said:

    Dominic Cummings is a cu*t of epic proportions. Woukd you trust him with anything....if you say yes you are a fool.

    I might.

    If, for example, an automated bus stop was set up on Rockall, he might be equal to running that.
    He would just move it to Barnard Castle.
  • ydoethur said:

    Dominic Cummings is a cu*t of epic proportions. Woukd you trust him with anything....if you say yes you are a fool.

    I might.

    If, for example, an automated bus stop was set up on Rockall, he might be equal to running that.
    He could also undertake experimental flights fulfilling the role of the Soviet dog Laika.

    Well one experimental flight, not plural.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,321

    Triggernometry interview with Boris
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxKy1r9quyE

    Given the link in the header, Boris looks very much these days yesterday's man....most leaders age terribly during their time in power, Boris has aged terribly post being leader.

    So its Bobby J, then what for the Tories?

    This is actually a great interview. Boris talking sense.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,650
    For whatever reason, the Sunday Times is currently plugging its February Epstein story.

    Epstein files: ‘It’s a bigger story than the world has ever known’
    The paedophile financier has been linked to countless famous people but what could Trump’s task force uncover about his crimes and contacts?

    https://www.thetimes.com/us/american-politics/article/epstein-client-list-to-be-released-files-xcl267j7k

    Free access to all Times stories this weekend aiui.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,931
    kle4 said:

    Triggernometry interview with Boris
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxKy1r9quyE

    Given the link in the header, Boris looks very much these days yesterday's man....most leaders age terribly during their time in power, Boris has aged terribly post being leader.

    So its Bobby J, then what for the Tories?

    I feel like Boris could have had a good post premiership. Plenty of people felt he was hard done by (not me), and given how badly things went they could make the case the party would have done better with him at its head, or he could have leaned into a pro-Ukrainian booster position before Trump made that unfashionable among conservatives who struggled to support him and Ukraine at the same time. Instead it seems like even his column (is he still doing one?) has barely made a splash.
    Boris is definitely slipping frim the public consciousness. Over Christmas I visited some relatives who were erstwhile supporters but now refer to him as 'that bloke with the silly hair'. I suspect that in these dark, scary days of Trump 2.0 the Boris Show is simply an indulgence few want to have.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,330
    I know this is being ultra pedantic (on PB, right?) but this headline cracked me up…https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crrd17xp79zo

    The idea that he’s been invisible as well as infallible just tickles me.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,650
    Operation Clockwork Orange - Secret Military Coup Against British Prime Minister
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmKIa9dWI8E

    Mark Felton put this up two hours ago (20 mins).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,866

    I know this is being ultra pedantic (on PB, right?) but this headline cracked me up…https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crrd17xp79zo

    The idea that he’s been invisible as well as infallible just tickles me.

    Tht reminds me very much of the last photo of Pope Jean Paul II - sitting in a chair, facing away from the camera.

    In the video made at the same time, all you could hear was his oxygen machine pumping air into him.

    Rather tragic for such a dominant and energetic figure.
  • nico67 said:

    The rule of law officially ended today in the USA as the Trump administration ignored a court order .

    Whatever you think of who was deported when governments ignore the courts you no longer can be called a functioning democracy .

    Not for the first time in America.

    During Trump I, I said that the only POTUS worse than Trump throughout history was Andrew Jackson, for his John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it stance.

    Now Trump II has decided to make Jackson his role-model and is plumbing those depths. Unsurprisingly.
  • It’s pandamonian in the Toon. Good job I am in my notice period as no work is happening tomorrow howay the lads

    Disappointed to lose of course, but happy for you guys to see a victory.

    Less happy for the Saudis to see one.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,254

    ydoethur said:

    Dominic Cummings is a cu*t of epic proportions. Woukd you trust him with anything....if you say yes you are a fool.

    I might.

    If, for example, an automated bus stop was set up on Rockall, he might be equal to running that.
    He could also undertake experimental flights fulfilling the role of the Soviet dog Laika.

    Well one experimental flight, not plural.
    I’d send him on a one-way peacemaking mission to Sudan.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,866
    edited March 16
    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dominic Cummings is a cu*t of epic proportions. Woukd you trust him with anything....if you say yes you are a fool.

    I might.

    If, for example, an automated bus stop was set up on Rockall, he might be equal to running that.
    He could also undertake experimental flights fulfilling the role of the Soviet dog Laika.

    Well one experimental flight, not plural.
    I’d send him on a one-way peacemaking mission to Sudan.
    God forbid. Haven't enough people died there already? And now you want to make the war a hundred times worse?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,924

    Dominic Cummings is a cu*t of epic proportions. Woukd you trust him with anything....if you say yes you are a fool.

    Just the sort of person to win an election campaign for you.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,330
    Interesting report in the Times regarding deaths from Munda to and other GLP1 drugs - 82 reported to the regulator.

    Where is the public outrage about this that there was over the covid vaccines?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,330

    It’s pandamonian in the Toon. Good job I am in my notice period as no work is happening tomorrow howay the lads

    Disappointed to lose of course, but happy for you guys to see a victory.

    Less happy for the Saudis to see one.
    I’m sad as it now makes Newcastle another club who have won a major trophy more recently than Swindon…
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,924

    Operation Clockwork Orange - Secret Military Coup Against British Prime Minister
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmKIa9dWI8E

    Mark Felton put this up two hours ago (20 mins).

    I've mentioned this several times on PB over the years. Interesting video.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,695
    Kerry Kennedy
    @KerryKennedyRFK

    Fifty seven years ago today, my father announced his candidacy for the presidency of the United States. “I cannot stand aside from the contest that will decide our nation’s future and our children’s future,” Daddy said.

    I imagine he would be devastated and angry about what we are facing today. Issues and causes he fought hard for are being obliterated from the national lexicon. The protection of civic space, programs that strengthen society, and the rule of law, which he held sacred, are all on the chopping block.

    https://x.com/KerryKennedyRFK/status/1901273179194110383
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,330
    Quiet in here tonight! Are there way more Newcastle fans on PB than we realised?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,866

    For whatever reason, the Sunday Times is currently plugging its February Epstein story.

    Epstein files: ‘It’s a bigger story than the world has ever known’
    The paedophile financier has been linked to countless famous people but what could Trump’s task force uncover about his crimes and contacts?

    https://www.thetimes.com/us/american-politics/article/epstein-client-list-to-be-released-files-xcl267j7k

    Free access to all Times stories this weekend aiui.

    Have they asked the President for his input into Epstein's contacts? 🤔
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,489

    Kerry Kennedy
    @KerryKennedyRFK

    Fifty seven years ago today, my father announced his candidacy for the presidency of the United States. “I cannot stand aside from the contest that will decide our nation’s future and our children’s future,” Daddy said.

    I imagine he would be devastated and angry about what we are facing today. Issues and causes he fought hard for are being obliterated from the national lexicon. The protection of civic space, programs that strengthen society, and the rule of law, which he held sacred, are all on the chopping block.

    https://x.com/KerryKennedyRFK/status/1901273179194110383

    Somewhat related - Austrian theoretical physicist who runs through a lot of research papers and tests out LLM's for logic/maths posted this today :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9YdPNS5p9Q

    Running an OpenAI LLM against questions about empire, democracy, autocracy. Possibly a little on the nose - but aimed at a wider YT audience I guess. Still rather affecting I found.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,489

    Interesting report in the Times regarding deaths from Munda to and other GLP1 drugs - 82 reported to the regulator.

    Where is the public outrage about this that there was over the covid vaccines?

    I guess very few of them were B.A pilots?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,927
    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour minister 'rubbished' spy chief's secret dossier on Wuhan lab leak theory during pandemic despite Boris demanding probe... to 'avoid offending China'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14503159/Labour-Wuhan-lab-leak-pandemic-Boris-johnson.html

    OMG does that mean….. it came from the lab???!
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,489

    viewcode said:

    GIN1138 said:

    viewcode said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Morning PB

    Just been reading Liz Truss's former lover, Mark Field's, gloriously indiscreet account of their affair at the Rant's website.

    What a cad! 😂

    Linky plz?
    Enjoy!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14502275/My-lover-Liz-Truss-intoxicating-exhausting-truth-18-month-affair-exclusive-Tory-minister-marriage-former-Prime-Minister-destroyed.html
    Thank you
    I am a masochist, but only to a limited extent, in that I want to read the Liz Truss/Mark Field thing, but don't want to subscribe to the Daily Mail. Any advice?
    Someone has posted a photo of the print edition:

    https://x.com/narindertweets/status/1901196136968265994
    Someone linked to a paywall-avoider earlier :

    https://archive.is/xc7Dh

    (there's nothing of interest in the article)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,200

    Quiet in here tonight! Are there way more Newcastle fans on PB than we realised?

    Newcastle/Gateshead with all the bridges across the Tyne is one of the iconic vistas in this country.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 59
    Busy weekend for Mark Carney, Canadian PM on Friday and turns 60 today
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,173
    DoctorG said:

    Busy weekend for Mark Carney, Canadian PM on Friday and turns 60 today

    And future Lord Protector of the reconstituted British Empire, shielding the Anglosphere from the threat of Trumpism.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,927
    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,999
    kle4 said:

    Triggernometry interview with Boris
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxKy1r9quyE

    Given the link in the header, Boris looks very much these days yesterday's man....most leaders age terribly during their time in power, Boris has aged terribly post being leader.

    So its Bobby J, then what for the Tories?

    I feel like Boris could have had a good post premiership. Plenty of people felt he was hard done by (not me), and given how badly things went they could make the case the party would have done better with him at its head, or he could have leaned into a pro-Ukrainian booster position before Trump made that unfashionable among conservatives who struggled to support him and Ukraine at the same time. Instead it seems like even his column (is he still doing one?) has barely made a splash.
    The basic problem with this notion is the same with the one that he could have been a good Prime Minister. He's Boris Johnson.

    There can be little doubt he has gifts that give him a appeal to some, and that if bestowed on a better person could be pretty powerful. But he's lazy, amoral, selfish, venal and has an ego the size of his wallpaper bill.

    So of course when given an unprecedented opportunity to remake Britain, high levels of popularity and his dream issue in being a wartime leader with a strong relationship with a genuinely heroic one, he frittered it all away.

    Just as now he's frittered away his remaining capital because he's too lazy and self-serving to do the hard thinking about what went wrong, that would make actually him interesting. And took the easy sugar rush for right-wingers of hitching himself to the Trump bandwagon rather than the difficult one of standing up to its destructive evil.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,395
    Leon said:

    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


    I had to Google. Interesting indeed.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,451

    Interesting report in the Times regarding deaths from Munda to and other GLP1 drugs - 82 reported to the regulator.

    Where is the public outrage about this that there was over the covid vaccines?

    I suppose because we vaccinated the otherwise healthy so have a different view of risk to treating conditions like diabetes and obesity that carry significant risks of mortality themselves.

    That said, I think there will and should be some better regulation of the online pharmacies.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,779
    Leon said:

    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


    It has a security wall but the building isn't a prison. A former lunatic asylum?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,774
    edited March 16
    Leon said:

    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


    Google lens has ruined this game. I won't spoil it for anothers, but amazed that it's still standing and how modern it looks.

    (and that gateway wouldn't fit some modern waistlines...)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,451
    I hope everyone else followed me in. It takes away some of the sting to be a ton up.
    Foxy said:

    Bit surprised to see 1.91 on an away win for Man United tonight.

    My team is so hopeless in defence, and lacking teeth in attack that I would see anything over 1.25 as value. We are pants, and cannot score at home or keep a clean sheet.

    It looks free money to me, and I have topped up on the handicap markets too. Even this pisspoor Man United side will be too much for us.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,927
    edited March 16
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


    Google lens has ruined this game. I won't spoil it for anothers, but amazed that it's still standing and how modern it looks.

    (and that gateway wouldn't fit some modern waistlines...)
    Have you guys tried NOT Googling and guessing?!

    Too late now but in future…

    There are actually clues in the photo
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,119
    edited March 16
    ohnotnow said:

    viewcode said:

    GIN1138 said:

    viewcode said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Morning PB

    Just been reading Liz Truss's former lover, Mark Field's, gloriously indiscreet account of their affair at the Rant's website.

    What a cad! 😂

    Linky plz?
    Enjoy!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14502275/My-lover-Liz-Truss-intoxicating-exhausting-truth-18-month-affair-exclusive-Tory-minister-marriage-former-Prime-Minister-destroyed.html
    Thank you
    I am a masochist, but only to a limited extent, in that I want to read the Liz Truss/Mark Field thing, but don't want to subscribe to the Daily Mail. Any advice?
    Someone has posted a photo of the print edition:

    https://x.com/narindertweets/status/1901196136968265994
    Someone linked to a paywall-avoider earlier :

    https://archive.is/xc7Dh

    (there's nothing of interest in the article)
    Is there anything more demeaning than an ex Tory MP selling his story about an extra marital affair with a slightly more successful one?

    Pass the sickbag HYUFD
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,779
    Omnium said:

    Triggernometry interview with Boris
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxKy1r9quyE

    Given the link in the header, Boris looks very much these days yesterday's man....most leaders age terribly during their time in power, Boris has aged terribly post being leader.

    So its Bobby J, then what for the Tories?

    This is actually a great interview. Boris talking sense.
    He doesn't talk the truth however, at least in the short section I could be bothered watching. Which I guess has always been his problem
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


    Google lens has ruined this game. I won't spoil it for anothers, but amazed that it's still standing and how modern it looks.

    (and that gateway wouldn't fit some modern waistlines...)
    Have you guys tried NOT Googling and guessing?!

    Too late now but in future…

    There are actually clues in the photo
    The workhouse Dickens knew as a lad?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,779
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


    Google lens has ruined this game. I won't spoil it for anothers, but amazed that it's still standing and how modern it looks.

    (and that gateway wouldn't fit some modern waistlines...)
    Have you guys tried NOT Googling and guessing?!

    Too late now but in future…

    There are actually clues in the photo
    What are the clues?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,330
    Foxy said:

    Interesting report in the Times regarding deaths from Munda to and other GLP1 drugs - 82 reported to the regulator.

    Where is the public outrage about this that there was over the covid vaccines?

    I suppose because we vaccinated the otherwise healthy so have a different view of risk to treating conditions like diabetes and obesity that carry significant risks of mortality themselves.

    That said, I think there will and should be some better regulation of the online pharmacies.
    It’s the disconnect that I don’t get. Vaccines against a virus = ‘untested, scary, dangerous’. GLP1 drugs for weight loss = ‘all good’.

    I generally despair of many of my fellow people and their lack of understanding of STEM.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,330
    Foxy said:

    I hope everyone else followed me in. It takes away some of the sting to be a ton up.

    Foxy said:

    Bit surprised to see 1.91 on an away win for Man United tonight.

    My team is so hopeless in defence, and lacking teeth in attack that I would see anything over 1.25 as value. We are pants, and cannot score at home or keep a clean sheet.

    It looks free money to me, and I have topped up on the handicap markets too. Even this pisspoor Man United side will be too much for us.

    I did, ta.

    I’m saddened by Leicesters decline. I remember a minor rivalry of sorts in the early 90’s, and loved the title season. My best man is a Leicester man too.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,927
    edited March 16
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


    Google lens has ruined this game. I won't spoil it for anothers, but amazed that it's still standing and how modern it looks.

    (and that gateway wouldn't fit some modern waistlines...)
    Have you guys tried NOT Googling and guessing?!

    Too late now but in future…

    There are actually clues in the photo
    The workhouse Dickens knew as a lad?
    Yes! And bravo for not googling

    It’s this place

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Street_Workhouse

    What a bleak history. One of the last workhouses left in london. Probably inspired Oliver Twist

    The two wings were for men and women. And now it’s luxury flats!

    Second prize to @FF43 for coming close. A bowl of virtual gruel for thee
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,395
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


    Google lens has ruined this game. I won't spoil it for anothers, but amazed that it's still standing and how modern it looks.

    (and that gateway wouldn't fit some modern waistlines...)
    Have you guys tried NOT Googling and guessing?!

    Too late now but in future…

    There are actually clues in the photo
    The workhouse Dickens knew as a lad?
    Yes! And bravo for not googling

    It’s this place

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Street_Workhouse

    Wear a bleak history. One of the last workhouses left in london. Probably inspired Oliver Twist

    The two wings were for men and women

    Second prize to @FF43 for coming close. A bowl of virtual gruel
    Interesting that the inconsistent brickwork doesn't appear to be an artifact of the recent works:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Street_Workhouse#/media/File:Cleveland_Street_Work_House_London.jpg
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,200
    edited March 16

    DoctorG said:

    Busy weekend for Mark Carney, Canadian PM on Friday and turns 60 today

    And future Lord Protector of the reconstituted British Empire, shielding the Anglosphere from the threat of Trumpism.
    My Anglosphere wouldn't be an "Empire" but a federation of all 50 US States, DC, the 5 US Territories, the 13 Canadian Provinces and Territories, the 4 Home Nations, the 3 Crown Dependencies and 10 Inhabited Overseas Territories, Ireland, the 6 Australian States, Canberra and the 3 External Territories, and New Zealand and its 3 Territories.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited March 16
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


    Google lens has ruined this game. I won't spoil it for anothers, but amazed that it's still standing and how modern it looks.

    (and that gateway wouldn't fit some modern waistlines...)
    Have you guys tried NOT Googling and guessing?!

    Too late now but in future…

    There are actually clues in the photo
    The workhouse Dickens knew as a lad?
    Yes! And bravo for not googling

    It’s this place

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Street_Workhouse

    Wear a bleak history. One of the last workhouses left in london. Probably inspired Oliver Twist

    The two wings were for men and women

    Second prize to @FF43 for coming close. A bowl of virtual gruel
    Mrs C and I have the excellent book by Ruth Richardson. Dickens and the Workhouse: Oliver Twist And The London Poor

    She was down for a training course in London years ago and ended up [edit] working almost opposite it. Very memorable for her.

    I was recently looking at archaeological reports for the place - such as this (there are others).

    https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/library/browse/issue.xhtml?recordId=1142141&recordType=GreyLitSeries
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,774
    edited March 16
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


    Google lens has ruined this game. I won't spoil it for anothers, but amazed that it's still standing and how modern it looks.

    (and that gateway wouldn't fit some modern waistlines...)
    Have you guys tried NOT Googling and guessing?!

    Too late now but in future…

    There are actually clues in the photo
    Technology has ruined me. I don't want to tempt you, but I used REDACTED for every single piece of work I did this week. I've almost entirely lost the ability to handwrite - thinking will be next.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,927
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


    Google lens has ruined this game. I won't spoil it for anothers, but amazed that it's still standing and how modern it looks.

    (and that gateway wouldn't fit some modern waistlines...)
    Have you guys tried NOT Googling and guessing?!

    Too late now but in future…

    There are actually clues in the photo
    What are the clues?
    The high walls that you note. The H shape. The location (look hard and you can see Fitzroy)

    Put it all together and the fact it’s only now being turned into flats - that’s a forbidding, jail-like Georgian building in Fitzrovia probably with some sad state/institutional history….

  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,861
    edited March 16
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Shashank Joshi
    @shashj

    Being wounded in combat while black is now “DEI woke shit”.

    https://x.com/shashj/status/1901175303851975016

    When the pendulum inevitably swings back, it is going to be brutal about what Trump and his racist/misogynist ilk have been doing.
    The MAGA plan is that there will be no pendulum. They will either steal or break it
    For which they would need the military
    What would make you think they won't have the military?
    The military have to take an oath to the constitution as well as the President, though of course if they tried to cancel future elections inevitably most of the blue states would secede from the union
    deleted
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


    Google lens has ruined this game. I won't spoil it for anothers, but amazed that it's still standing and how modern it looks.

    (and that gateway wouldn't fit some modern waistlines...)
    Have you guys tried NOT Googling and guessing?!

    Too late now but in future…

    There are actually clues in the photo
    The workhouse Dickens knew as a lad?
    Yes! And bravo for not googling

    It’s this place

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Street_Workhouse

    Wear a bleak history. One of the last workhouses left in london. Probably inspired Oliver Twist

    The two wings were for men and women

    Second prize to @FF43 for coming close. A bowl of virtual gruel
    Mrs C and I have the excellent book by Ruth Richardson. Dickens and the Workhouse: Oliver Twist And The London Poor

    She was down for a training course in London years ago and ended up [edit] working almost opposite it. Very memorable for her.

    I was recently looking at archaeological reports for the place - such as this (there are others).

    https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/library/browse/issue.xhtml?recordId=1142141&recordType=GreyLitSeries
    Also https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/library/browse/issue.xhtml?recordId=1204289&recordType=GreyLitSeries
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,927
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


    Google lens has ruined this game. I won't spoil it for anothers, but amazed that it's still standing and how modern it looks.

    (and that gateway wouldn't fit some modern waistlines...)
    Have you guys tried NOT Googling and guessing?!

    Too late now but in future…

    There are actually clues in the photo
    The workhouse Dickens knew as a lad?
    Yes! And bravo for not googling

    It’s this place

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Street_Workhouse

    Wear a bleak history. One of the last workhouses left in london. Probably inspired Oliver Twist

    The two wings were for men and women

    Second prize to @FF43 for coming close. A bowl of virtual gruel
    Mrs C and I have the excellent book by Ruth Richardson. Dickens and the Workhouse: Oliver Twist And The London Poor

    She was down for a training course in London years ago and ended up [edit] working almost opposite it. Very memorable for her.

    I was recently looking at archaeological reports for the place - such as this (there are others).

    https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/library/browse/issue.xhtml?recordId=1142141&recordType=GreyLitSeries
    Even more impressive. You got a bullseye - and without google lens

    Shamefully Camden council tried to knock it down in the noughties. Wankers! Quite apart from its amazing history it’s a handsome piece of utilitarian Georgian architecture. Which they would have replaced with meaningless dreck
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,681

    Interesting report in the Times regarding deaths from Munda to and other GLP1 drugs - 82 reported to the regulator.

    Where is the public outrage about this that there was over the covid vaccines?

    Nobody is being forced/pressured into taking weight loss drugs and we don't recommend them for healthy people.

    Knowing what I know now, I would not have had more than one vaccine dose. I've come out of it with 3 years of recovering from the damage the vaccine caused to my heart and this is the opinion of two consultants, one NHS and one private. Did it kill me? No, has it caused a lot of unnecessary problems and lifestyle changes? Yes and pushing the vaccine on the young and healthy was, in hindsight, not a good idea, especially for men under 40 there should have been much tighter guidelines.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,650
    edited March 16
    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


    Google lens has ruined this game. I won't spoil it for anothers, but amazed that it's still standing and how modern it looks.

    (and that gateway wouldn't fit some modern waistlines...)
    Have you guys tried NOT Googling and guessing?!

    Too late now but in future…

    There are actually clues in the photo
    What are the clues?
    The high walls that you note. The H shape. The location (look hard and you can see Fitzroy)

    Put it all together and the fact it’s only now being turned into flats - that’s a forbidding, jail-like Georgian building in Fitzrovia probably with some sad state/institutional history….

    Knowing your interest in Dickens, is it the workhouse he briefly lived in?

    ETA scooped (and more accurately) by Carnyx.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,671
    edited March 16
    Speaking of workhouses, (see above) the best preserved workhouse, so many say, is at Southwell (PB recently had a lengthy discussion about how to pronounce it) which can add gloom to the the noom of a visit to Southwell cathedral's glorious chapter house.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,650
    ‘Unite the Right’ plot to oust Kemi Badenoch
    A group of former officials are reportedly planning to launch campaign in coming weeks to stem Tory losses in local elections

    Former Tory and Reform aides are discussing a “Unite the Right” plot to oust Kemi Badenoch and limit Conservative losses in the local elections.

    A group of former officials with “significant” backing from donors are planning to launch a campaign in the next few weeks, according to reports.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/16/unite-the-right-plot-to-oust-kemi-badenoch/ (£££)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,330
    MaxPB said:

    Interesting report in the Times regarding deaths from Munda to and other GLP1 drugs - 82 reported to the regulator.

    Where is the public outrage about this that there was over the covid vaccines?

    Nobody is being forced/pressured into taking weight loss drugs and we don't recommend them for healthy people.

    Knowing what I know now, I would not have had more than one vaccine dose. I've come out of it with 3 years of recovering from the damage the vaccine caused to my heart and this is the opinion of two consultants, one NHS and one private. Did it kill me? No, has it caused a lot of unnecessary problems and lifestyle changes? Yes and pushing the vaccine on the young and healthy was, in hindsight, not a good idea, especially for men under 40 there should have been much tighter guidelines.
    I’m sorry about your troubles and the links to the vaccines (presumably the AZ?). I think my point is still this - deaths from GLP1 drugs are not attracting anything like the storm that covid vaccines did. I understand your point about healthy people, but plenty of men under 40 died from covid.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,671

    DoctorG said:

    Busy weekend for Mark Carney, Canadian PM on Friday and turns 60 today

    And future Lord Protector of the reconstituted British Empire, shielding the Anglosphere from the threat of Trumpism.
    My Anglosphere wouldn't be an "Empire" but a federation of all 50 US States, DC, the 5 US Territories, the 13 Canadian Provinces and Territories, the 4 Home Nations, the 3 Crown Dependencies and 10 Inhabited Overseas Territories, Ireland, the 6 Australian States, Canberra and the 3 External Territories, and New Zealand and its 3 Territories.
    You need to add France and Italy so that the 6 Nations can become the 103 (if I count correctly) Nations.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,200
    algarkirk said:

    DoctorG said:

    Busy weekend for Mark Carney, Canadian PM on Friday and turns 60 today

    And future Lord Protector of the reconstituted British Empire, shielding the Anglosphere from the threat of Trumpism.
    My Anglosphere wouldn't be an "Empire" but a federation of all 50 US States, DC, the 5 US Territories, the 13 Canadian Provinces and Territories, the 4 Home Nations, the 3 Crown Dependencies and 10 Inhabited Overseas Territories, Ireland, the 6 Australian States, Canberra and the 3 External Territories, and New Zealand and its 3 Territories.
    You need to add France and Italy so that the 6 Nations can become the 103 (if I count correctly) Nations.
    Nah, not enough L1 English-speakers :lol:
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,468
    edited March 16

    ‘Unite the Right’ plot to oust Kemi Badenoch
    A group of former officials are reportedly planning to launch campaign in coming weeks to stem Tory losses in local elections

    Former Tory and Reform aides are discussing a “Unite the Right” plot to oust Kemi Badenoch and limit Conservative losses in the local elections.

    A group of former officials with “significant” backing from donors are planning to launch a campaign in the next few weeks, according to reports.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/16/unite-the-right-plot-to-oust-kemi-badenoch/ (£££)

    Oh FFS. They really can’t help themselves.

    This is the corollary of the Tory sense of entitlement to power. Panic if you’re not in power for, what, less than a year?

    People will just laugh and shrug.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,850
    edited March 16
    algarkirk said:

    Speaking of workhouses, (see above) the best preserved workhouse, so many say, is at Southwell (PB recently had a lengthy discussion about how to pronounce it) which can add gloom to the the noom of a visit to Southwell cathedral's glorious chapter house.

    Its SOUTH well if you live in Southwell itself
    Its SUTH ull if you live in wider Nottinghamshire
    Its SOUTH well if you live outside Notts and do not know any better.

    Simple reallly

    Also its Notts County (despite being the only professional club in the City of Nottingham ) and Nottingham Forest (never Notts Forest ) despite being in technically Nottinghamshire and not Nottingham - again simple really
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,858
    algarkirk said:

    DoctorG said:

    Busy weekend for Mark Carney, Canadian PM on Friday and turns 60 today

    And future Lord Protector of the reconstituted British Empire, shielding the Anglosphere from the threat of Trumpism.
    My Anglosphere wouldn't be an "Empire" but a federation of all 50 US States, DC, the 5 US Territories, the 13 Canadian Provinces and Territories, the 4 Home Nations, the 3 Crown Dependencies and 10 Inhabited Overseas Territories, Ireland, the 6 Australian States, Canberra and the 3 External Territories, and New Zealand and its 3 Territories.
    You need to add France and Italy so that the 6 Nations can become the 103 (if I count correctly) Nations.
    We're going to need a bigger TV deal...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,468

    algarkirk said:

    Speaking of workhouses, (see above) the best preserved workhouse, so many say, is at Southwell (PB recently had a lengthy discussion about how to pronounce it) which can add gloom to the the noom of a visit to Southwell cathedral's glorious chapter house.

    Its SOUTH well if you live in Southwell itself
    Its SUTH ull if you live in wider Nottinghamshire
    Its SOUTH well if you live outside Notts and do not know any better.

    Simple reallly

    Also its Notts County (despite being the only professional club in the City of Nottingham ) and Nottingham Forest (never Notts Forest ) despite being in technically Nottinghamshire and not Nottingham - again simple really
    It was always Suthull to me but I knew it from childhood as the only state cathedral choir school.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,173
    TimS said:

    ‘Unite the Right’ plot to oust Kemi Badenoch
    A group of former officials are reportedly planning to launch campaign in coming weeks to stem Tory losses in local elections

    Former Tory and Reform aides are discussing a “Unite the Right” plot to oust Kemi Badenoch and limit Conservative losses in the local elections.

    A group of former officials with “significant” backing from donors are planning to launch a campaign in the next few weeks, according to reports.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/16/unite-the-right-plot-to-oust-kemi-badenoch/ (£££)

    Oh FFS. They really can’t help themselves.

    This is the corollary of the Tory sense of entitlement to power. Panic if you’re not in power for, what, less than a year?

    People will just laugh and shrug.
    There's very little reason to vote for the right now that even Farage is positioning himself to the left of Starmer.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,695
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


    Google lens has ruined this game. I won't spoil it for anothers, but amazed that it's still standing and how modern it looks.

    (and that gateway wouldn't fit some modern waistlines...)
    Have you guys tried NOT Googling and guessing?!

    Too late now but in future…

    There are actually clues in the photo
    The workhouse Dickens knew as a lad?
    Yes! And bravo for not googling

    It’s this place

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Street_Workhouse

    Wear a bleak history. One of the last workhouses left in london. Probably inspired Oliver Twist

    The two wings were for men and women

    Second prize to @FF43 for coming close. A bowl of virtual gruel
    Mrs C and I have the excellent book by Ruth Richardson. Dickens and the Workhouse: Oliver Twist And The London Poor

    She was down for a training course in London years ago and ended up [edit] working almost opposite it. Very memorable for her.

    I was recently looking at archaeological reports for the place - such as this (there are others).

    https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/library/browse/issue.xhtml?recordId=1142141&recordType=GreyLitSeries
    Even more impressive. You got a bullseye - and without google lens

    Shamefully Camden council tried to knock it down in the noughties. Wankers! Quite apart from its amazing history it’s a handsome piece of utilitarian Georgian architecture. Which they would have replaced with meaningless dreck
    Sounds like it should be a listed building.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,681

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting report in the Times regarding deaths from Munda to and other GLP1 drugs - 82 reported to the regulator.

    Where is the public outrage about this that there was over the covid vaccines?

    Nobody is being forced/pressured into taking weight loss drugs and we don't recommend them for healthy people.

    Knowing what I know now, I would not have had more than one vaccine dose. I've come out of it with 3 years of recovering from the damage the vaccine caused to my heart and this is the opinion of two consultants, one NHS and one private. Did it kill me? No, has it caused a lot of unnecessary problems and lifestyle changes? Yes and pushing the vaccine on the young and healthy was, in hindsight, not a good idea, especially for men under 40 there should have been much tighter guidelines.
    I’m sorry about your troubles and the links to the vaccines (presumably the AZ?). I think my point is still this - deaths from GLP1 drugs are not attracting anything like the storm that covid vaccines did. I understand your point about healthy people, but plenty of men under 40 died from covid.
    Again, because people are choosing to go onto weight loss drugs or using them without being recommended them by a doctor. Also, how many of those deaths are solely due to the weight loss drug vs some other comorbidity, which given the target group is probably a high proportion of people who take it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,695

    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    20m
    🚨🚨🚨
    So we're hitting a crisis point, with the apparent evasion of court orders on deportations and immigration, plus shutting down agencies, canceling grants, and firing civil servants contrary to law. And claims from DOJ that Article II of the Constitution enables autocracy.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1901388655408890179
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,097
    vik said:

    The problem with Presidential systems is that there is no way to remove a President who goes rogue, but continues to have the support of their Party.

    The interesting question in the US is why he continues to have the support of the GOP. He is fucking over their voters as much as "the libs"
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,173
    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1901377247401177365

    REPORT: Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller secretly orchestrated the Venezuelan gang members' flights to El Salvador to get the criminals out of the country before an activist judge could take action.

    Brilliant.

    According to Axios, the Trump administration *ignored* the court order demanding that two planes filled with Venezuelan gang members turn around.

    The Trump administration says the flights were already over international waters, therefore the ruling didn't matter.

    "Miller 'orchestrated' the process in the West Wing in tandem with Homeland Security Secretary Kristy Noem. Few outside their teams knew what was happening," Axios reported.

    A senior White House official told Axios that the Trump admin is looking forward to winning the case at the Supreme Court.

    "This is headed to the Supreme Court. And we're going to win."
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,468
    Scott_xP said:

    vik said:

    The problem with Presidential systems is that there is no way to remove a President who goes rogue, but continues to have the support of their Party.

    The interesting question in the US is why he continues to have the support of the GOP. He is fucking over their voters as much as "the libs"
    Because American politics is more tribal than Glaswegian football and every week’s an old firm derby.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,097
    TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    vik said:

    The problem with Presidential systems is that there is no way to remove a President who goes rogue, but continues to have the support of their Party.

    The interesting question in the US is why he continues to have the support of the GOP. He is fucking over their voters as much as "the libs"
    Because American politics is more tribal than Glaswegian football and every week’s an old firm derby.
    Even the Old Firm ditch their managers when they're losing. And Trump is losing, bigly
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,097

    The Trump administration says the flights were already over international waters, therefore the ruling didn't matter.

    They are in contempt of the court order
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,330
    Scott_xP said:

    TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    vik said:

    The problem with Presidential systems is that there is no way to remove a President who goes rogue, but continues to have the support of their Party.

    The interesting question in the US is why he continues to have the support of the GOP. He is fucking over their voters as much as "the libs"
    Because American politics is more tribal than Glaswegian football and every week’s an old firm derby.
    Even the Old Firm ditch their managers when they're losing. And Trump is losing, bigly
    Not if, checks notes, the last ever vote for President in the USA has been held already…
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited March 16
    carnforth said:



    Clue, at the risk of being banned for posting two photos. In my defence, this is a negative.

    Lacock Abbey. Ignore, already done ...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,097

    Scott_xP said:

    TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    vik said:

    The problem with Presidential systems is that there is no way to remove a President who goes rogue, but continues to have the support of their Party.

    The interesting question in the US is why he continues to have the support of the GOP. He is fucking over their voters as much as "the libs"
    Because American politics is more tribal than Glaswegian football and every week’s an old firm derby.
    Even the Old Firm ditch their managers when they're losing. And Trump is losing, bigly
    Not if, checks notes, the last ever vote for President in the USA has been held already…
    Yes, if he is the last President cos the USA ceases to exist, or is impoverished beyond repair
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,927


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    20m
    🚨🚨🚨
    So we're hitting a crisis point, with the apparent evasion of court orders on deportations and immigration, plus shutting down agencies, canceling grants, and firing civil servants contrary to law. And claims from DOJ that Article II of the Constitution enables autocracy.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1901388655408890179

    Trump has done some mad stupid shit these last weeks, but deporting violent Venezuelan gangsters to El Salvador is not one of them. It’s also bound to be popular. Are the Dems really gonna fight on THIS hill?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,841
    Leon said:

    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


    Is it one of the former barracks? Either on Hampstead Road or in St John's wood?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,774
    edited March 16
    vik said:

    nico67 said:

    The rule of law officially ended today in the USA as the Trump administration ignored a court order .

    Whatever you think of who was deported when governments ignore the courts you no longer can be called a functioning democracy .

    The United States is providing a real-life demonstration of the superiority of Parliamentary systems of government.

    If a UK Prime Minister tried to defy the courts then they would be dismissed by the Monarch.

    The problem with Presidential systems is that there is no way to remove a President who goes rogue, but continues to have the support of their Party.

    Parliamentary systems at least ensure that the Head of State is a non-political person who is a lot less likely to go rogue.
    I've been thinking about that. I think it's more akin to the King ignoring a court order - this was his oath:

    Will you solemnly promise and swear to govern ... according to their respective laws and customs?

    Which is effectively the same as: preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,920
    Mango said:

    carnforth said:



    Quiz: I took this photo today. It is not an interesting photo, but it is interesting that I chose to take it. Why?

    Toon trophy cabinet?
    Spurs trophy cabinet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,927
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    It’s dead in the PB Arms tonight. Here’s another picture quiz, just for fun

    What is remarkable about this refurbed old building in London? The photo is very recent - took it last week


    Is it one of the former barracks? Either on Hampstead Road or in St John's wood?
    @Carnyx nailed it

    It’s the last workhouse left in London. Georgian. Fitzrovia. Inspired dickens to write Oliver Twist
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,468
    Eabhal said:

    vik said:

    nico67 said:

    The rule of law officially ended today in the USA as the Trump administration ignored a court order .

    Whatever you think of who was deported when governments ignore the courts you no longer can be called a functioning democracy .

    The United States is providing a real-life demonstration of the superiority of Parliamentary systems of government.

    If a UK Prime Minister tried to defy the courts then they would be dismissed by the Monarch.

    The problem with Presidential systems is that there is no way to remove a President who goes rogue, but continues to have the support of their Party.

    Parliamentary systems at least ensure that the Head of State is a non-political person who is a lot less likely to go rogue.
    I've been thinking about that. I think it's more akin to the King ignoring a court order - this was his oath:

    Will you solemnly promise and swear to govern ... according to their respective laws and customs?

    Which is effectively the same as: preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
    Monarchies are almost always more stable than republics.

    During the Arab spring every government that fell was a republic: Libya, Egypt, Syria, Tunisia; the monarchies - Jordan, Oman, Morocco, Bahrain, Kuwait, UAE, Saudi - generally held it together with some concessions.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,695
    Leon said:


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    20m
    🚨🚨🚨
    So we're hitting a crisis point, with the apparent evasion of court orders on deportations and immigration, plus shutting down agencies, canceling grants, and firing civil servants contrary to law. And claims from DOJ that Article II of the Constitution enables autocracy.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1901388655408890179

    Trump has done some mad stupid shit these last weeks, but deporting violent Venezuelan gangsters to El Salvador is not one of them. It’s also bound to be popular. Are the Dems really gonna fight on THIS hill?
    I doubt you can class Kristol as a Dem to be honest.

    Rather cleverly the Trump gang have broken the rule of law and court orders on an issue which, as you say, no one is likely to give a flying f other than immigration charities and lawyers.

    They establish the idea that the courts can be ignored over an issue most voters care less about and then they move on.



  • https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1901377247401177365

    REPORT: Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller secretly orchestrated the Venezuelan gang members' flights to El Salvador to get the criminals out of the country before an activist judge could take action.

    Brilliant.

    According to Axios, the Trump administration *ignored* the court order demanding that two planes filled with Venezuelan gang members turn around.

    The Trump administration says the flights were already over international waters, therefore the ruling didn't matter.

    "Miller 'orchestrated' the process in the West Wing in tandem with Homeland Security Secretary Kristy Noem. Few outside their teams knew what was happening," Axios reported.

    A senior White House official told Axios that the Trump admin is looking forward to winning the case at the Supreme Court.

    "This is headed to the Supreme Court. And we're going to win."

    All the reporting I've seen said they ignored the court order.

    Acted before the court order so the court order came too late is rather different.

    Which is it?

    Curious on the international waters argument. IANAL but I would have thought the federal courts would have jurisdiction over all federal flights even if in international waters?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,695

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1901377247401177365

    REPORT: Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller secretly orchestrated the Venezuelan gang members' flights to El Salvador to get the criminals out of the country before an activist judge could take action.

    Brilliant.

    According to Axios, the Trump administration *ignored* the court order demanding that two planes filled with Venezuelan gang members turn around.

    The Trump administration says the flights were already over international waters, therefore the ruling didn't matter.

    "Miller 'orchestrated' the process in the West Wing in tandem with Homeland Security Secretary Kristy Noem. Few outside their teams knew what was happening," Axios reported.

    A senior White House official told Axios that the Trump admin is looking forward to winning the case at the Supreme Court.

    "This is headed to the Supreme Court. And we're going to win."

    Trump's hand picked Supreme Court give him a win?

    I am shocked, I tell you, shocked.

  • vikvik Posts: 163
    Eabhal said:



    I've been thinking about that. I think it's more akin to the King ignoring a court order - this was his oath:

    Will you solemnly promise and swear to govern ... according to their respective laws and customs?

    Which is effectively the same as: preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

    Yes, the problem is that the Head of State commands the military, which means that if they decide to ignore court orders then there is no easy way to force them to comply.

    Constitutional monarchies recognise this problem and explicitly place the Monarch above the law, but ensure that the Monarch is someone of impeccable character, who will voluntarily always comply with the law.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,834
    Leon said:


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    20m
    🚨🚨🚨
    So we're hitting a crisis point, with the apparent evasion of court orders on deportations and immigration, plus shutting down agencies, canceling grants, and firing civil servants contrary to law. And claims from DOJ that Article II of the Constitution enables autocracy.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1901388655408890179

    Trump has done some mad stupid shit these last weeks, but deporting violent Venezuelan gangsters to El Salvador is not one of them. It’s also bound to be popular. Are the Dems really gonna fight on THIS hill?
    Putting aside who was being deported are you comfortable with governments ignoring the courts ? This time you agree with the decision because of who’s being deported . It doesn’t matter if the decision is popular or not . Next time it might be a decision you disagree with , what if Labour just ignored the courts here . Would you be okay with that ?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,774
    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    vik said:

    nico67 said:

    The rule of law officially ended today in the USA as the Trump administration ignored a court order .

    Whatever you think of who was deported when governments ignore the courts you no longer can be called a functioning democracy .

    The United States is providing a real-life demonstration of the superiority of Parliamentary systems of government.

    If a UK Prime Minister tried to defy the courts then they would be dismissed by the Monarch.

    The problem with Presidential systems is that there is no way to remove a President who goes rogue, but continues to have the support of their Party.

    Parliamentary systems at least ensure that the Head of State is a non-political person who is a lot less likely to go rogue.
    I've been thinking about that. I think it's more akin to the King ignoring a court order - this was his oath:

    Will you solemnly promise and swear to govern ... according to their respective laws and customs?

    Which is effectively the same as: preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
    Monarchies are almost always more stable than republics.

    During the Arab spring every government that fell was a republic: Libya, Egypt, Syria, Tunisia; the monarchies - Jordan, Oman, Morocco, Bahrain, Kuwait, UAE, Saudi - generally held it together with some concessions.
    7 out of the top 10 on Freedom House's score are monarchies. I guess preserving the line is a big incentive for making concessions.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,695
    nico67 said:

    Leon said:


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    20m
    🚨🚨🚨
    So we're hitting a crisis point, with the apparent evasion of court orders on deportations and immigration, plus shutting down agencies, canceling grants, and firing civil servants contrary to law. And claims from DOJ that Article II of the Constitution enables autocracy.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1901388655408890179

    Trump has done some mad stupid shit these last weeks, but deporting violent Venezuelan gangsters to El Salvador is not one of them. It’s also bound to be popular. Are the Dems really gonna fight on THIS hill?
    Putting aside who was being deported are you comfortable with governments ignoring the courts ? This time you agree with the decision because of who’s being deported . It doesn’t matter if the decision is popular or not . Next time it might be a decision you disagree with , what if Labour just ignored the courts here . Would you be okay with that ?
    Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,191

    nico67 said:

    Leon said:


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    20m
    🚨🚨🚨
    So we're hitting a crisis point, with the apparent evasion of court orders on deportations and immigration, plus shutting down agencies, canceling grants, and firing civil servants contrary to law. And claims from DOJ that Article II of the Constitution enables autocracy.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1901388655408890179

    Trump has done some mad stupid shit these last weeks, but deporting violent Venezuelan gangsters to El Salvador is not one of them. It’s also bound to be popular. Are the Dems really gonna fight on THIS hill?
    Putting aside who was being deported are you comfortable with governments ignoring the courts ? This time you agree with the decision because of who’s being deported . It doesn’t matter if the decision is popular or not . Next time it might be a decision you disagree with , what if Labour just ignored the courts here . Would you be okay with that ?
    Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?
    That speech is one of my favourite of all time. And I believe was also a favourite of the excellent Cyclefree, late of this parish.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,834
    edited March 16
    It’s pretty clear now that the biggest danger to democracy is not the so called left wokists on steroids but right wingers who support Trump ,who only want free speech which they agree with and happily ignore the trashing of the courts which might make decisions they disagree with . You’d think Musk saying judges should be impeached because basically they’re simply following the law would set alarm bells ringing .

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,277
    edited March 16

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1901377247401177365

    REPORT: Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller secretly orchestrated the Venezuelan gang members' flights to El Salvador to get the criminals out of the country before an activist judge could take action.

    Brilliant.

    According to Axios, the Trump administration *ignored* the court order demanding that two planes filled with Venezuelan gang members turn around.

    The Trump administration says the flights were already over international waters, therefore the ruling didn't matter.

    "Miller 'orchestrated' the process in the West Wing in tandem with Homeland Security Secretary Kristy Noem. Few outside their teams knew what was happening," Axios reported.

    A senior White House official told Axios that the Trump admin is looking forward to winning the case at the Supreme Court.

    "This is headed to the Supreme Court. And we're going to win."

    Trump's hand picked Supreme Court give him a win?

    I am shocked, I tell you, shocked.

    Regarding about the Supreme Court do this bunch still want it to be increased in size:

    Washington (May 16, 2023) – Today, Senators Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.), Tina Smith (D-Minn.) and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), and Representatives Jerrold Nadler (NY-12), Hank Johnson (GA-04), Cori Bush (MO-01), and Adam Schiff (CA-30) announced the reintroduction of the Judiciary Act of 2023, legislation that would expand the Supreme Court by adding four seats to create a 13-Justice bench. Lawmakers were joined in front of the steps of the Supreme Court by leaders from national advocacy groups, including Planned Parenthood Federation of America Senior Vice President of Policy, Campaigns, and Advocacy Jacqueline Ayers, NARAL Pro-Choice America President Mini Timmaraju, League of Conservation Voters’ Senior Director of Judiciary & Democracy Doug Lindner, and Demand Justice Executive Director Brian Fallon.

    https://www.markey.senate.gov/news/press-releases/05/16/2023/sen-markey-rep-johnson-announce-legislation-to-expand-supreme-court-restore-its-legitimacy-alongside-sen-smith-reps-bush-and-schiff

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,774
    vik said:

    Eabhal said:



    I've been thinking about that. I think it's more akin to the King ignoring a court order - this was his oath:

    Will you solemnly promise and swear to govern ... according to their respective laws and customs?

    Which is effectively the same as: preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

    Yes, the problem is that the Head of State commands the military, which means that if they decide to ignore court orders then there is no easy way to force them to comply.

    Constitutional monarchies recognise this problem and explicitly place the Monarch above the law, but ensure that the Monarch is someone of impeccable character, who will voluntarily always comply with the law.
    Not sure about the impeccable character thing. It's a legacy thing. The weight of thousands of years of history. Ultimately, it's bodily self-preservation.

    British democracy boils down to the King knowing we'd burn down Balmoral (or worse) should those he appoint to office not reflect the ballot box, or abide by our laws.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,097

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1901377247401177365

    REPORT: Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller secretly orchestrated the Venezuelan gang members' flights to El Salvador to get the criminals out of the country before an activist judge could take action.

    Brilliant.

    According to Axios, the Trump administration *ignored* the court order demanding that two planes filled with Venezuelan gang members turn around.

    The Trump administration says the flights were already over international waters, therefore the ruling didn't matter.

    "Miller 'orchestrated' the process in the West Wing in tandem with Homeland Security Secretary Kristy Noem. Few outside their teams knew what was happening," Axios reported.

    A senior White House official told Axios that the Trump admin is looking forward to winning the case at the Supreme Court.

    "This is headed to the Supreme Court. And we're going to win."

    All the reporting I've seen said they ignored the court order.

    Acted before the court order so the court order came too late is rather different.

    Which is it?

    Curious on the international waters argument. IANAL but I would have thought the federal courts would have jurisdiction over all federal flights even if in international waters?
    The court order said turn the flight around

    They ignored it
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