"To the extent you feel you can define it, what’s the Trump doctrine?
Part of the problem with Trump is that he is so mercurial. He’s so idiosyncratic that, just when you think you figured out the Trump doctrine, he goes and says something that kind of sounds like the opposite of the Trump doctrine. But I do think that there is one coherent worldview that Trump seems to espouse and has espoused for a long time. The first ad he took out when he was a real estate developer was in 1987. It was an ad about how Japan was ripping us off economically and Europe was ripping us off by free-riding on security. And what that represents, fundamentally, is a rejection of the open international system that the United States and Europe have built over the last eight decades."
Trump’s first visit to Russia was in 1987.
I know it’s considered paranoiac to claim that Trump is a Russian operative but he certainly behaves like it much of the time.
Robert Harris wrote ‘The Ghost’, loosely modelled on the Blair’s, with the idea that the PMs wife was an agent of a foreign power and had been from the start. But that’s fiction. Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? The more prosaic explanation is that he is a massive arse who wants the put USA first. Unpalatable as it is to us in Europe there is an element of truth to the idea that Western Europe has had an easy ride with the US playing role of global peacekeeper. Countries like Ireland, for instance, absolutely take the piss assured that Britain will defend them, and many Americans will say the same about Europe. Isolationism in the US isn’t a new thing, after all.
Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? Google Agent Krasnov and let us know.
It's like the lab leak theory - unlikely we will know either way but circumstantial evidence is strongly supportive and it's the most plausible explanation.
I notice Electoral Calculus, in it's latest prediction, now has REF short (134 seats) of an overall majority for the first time.
But given recent developments could we be at Peak Reform?
Hopefully
How anyone can vote for Farage is beyond me
Come come now. They may offend your delicate sensibilities, but do you really think people who voted for the Tories to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands should do so again?
There is nothing delicate in rejecting a fan boy of Trump and his bully boys
He demeans our country and should go and live in New York or Moscow
"A baseless conspiracy theory is circulating among pro-Trump social media users alleging that high-profile Democratic figures Antony Blinken, Susan Rice, Victoria Nuland, and Alexander Vindman held a conference call with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy during his flight to Washington.
The conspiracy theory went viral, with Republicans including US special envoy, Richard Grenell, spreading the baseless claim.
The claim suggests that they advised him to “stand strong” and be “tough” against president Donald Trump before the confrontation between Zelenskyy, Trump, and vice president JD Vance in the Oval Office took place.
Worth noting: The initial claim, posted by a pro-Trump author on social media, provided no source or evidence and was later acknowledged by herself as speculation."
I think it made a sort of sense for Zelensky to display some sass in the Oval office. In many ways he is now playing to Europe as his main sponsor. Judging from the response from the PB faithful, including the rush to donate their hard-earned cash, he's played a blinder.
Just seen in the football the red card for Millwall's keeper, that has to be the most reckless challenge I've ever seen in football. Studs up into the head, that couldn't just end someone's career but someone's life too.
I get Millwall fans love their reputation of "no one likes us, we don't care" but for them to be chanting "let him die" when a player with a head injury is getting treatment is truly disgusting.
What's more shocking though is the FA saying that "let him die" chants aren't a breach of their regulations, but they're going to be investigating homophobic chants aimed at another player as they are. If that's the case, perhaps your regulations are a bit broken.
Oh, I don't think this one will ever be beaten, Bart:
"To the extent you feel you can define it, what’s the Trump doctrine?
Part of the problem with Trump is that he is so mercurial. He’s so idiosyncratic that, just when you think you figured out the Trump doctrine, he goes and says something that kind of sounds like the opposite of the Trump doctrine. But I do think that there is one coherent worldview that Trump seems to espouse and has espoused for a long time. The first ad he took out when he was a real estate developer was in 1987. It was an ad about how Japan was ripping us off economically and Europe was ripping us off by free-riding on security. And what that represents, fundamentally, is a rejection of the open international system that the United States and Europe have built over the last eight decades."
Trump’s first visit to Russia was in 1987.
I know it’s considered paranoiac to claim that Trump is a Russian operative but he certainly behaves like it much of the time.
Robert Harris wrote ‘The Ghost’, loosely modelled on the Blair’s, with the idea that the PMs wife was an agent of a foreign power and had been from the start. But that’s fiction. Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? The more prosaic explanation is that he is a massive arse who wants the put USA first. Unpalatable as it is to us in Europe there is an element of truth to the idea that Western Europe has had an easy ride with the US playing role of global peacekeeper. Countries like Ireland, for instance, absolutely take the piss assured that Britain will defend them, and many Americans will say the same about Europe. Isolationism in the US isn’t a new thing, after all.
Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? Google Agent Krasnov and let us know.
It's like the lab leak theory - unlikely we will know either way but circumstantial evidence is strongly supportive and it's the most plausible explanation.
If Trump was a Russian agent he wouldn't have told Europe to increase defence spending and stop depending on Russian energy.
Rather Trump is self-obsessed and self-pitying and thinks he has a score to settle with a lot of people.
Including those European countries who laughed at his advice and then cheered his defeat.
I notice Electoral Calculus, in it's latest prediction, now has REF short (134 seats) of an overall majority for the first time.
But given recent developments could we be at Peak Reform?
Hopefully
How anyone can vote for Farage is beyond me
Come come now. They may offend your delicate sensibilities, but do you really think people who voted for the Tories to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands should do so again?
There is nothing delicate in rejecting a fan boy of Trump and his bully boys
He demeans our country and should go and live in New York or Moscow
Via @BMGResearch, 25-26 Feb. Changes w/ 28-29 Jan.
Before 28th February verbal assault on decency by Trump and his bullies
Let's see how this pans out over the next few weeks
Voting Reform is voting for Farage and Trump
The only thing is, I'm not sure most of the people that have switched from CON and LAB to REF will necessarily care about Ukraine and in some cases might even support Russia.
However, these developments must limit Reforms potential for further growth, at least in the short term?
I notice Electoral Calculus, in it's latest prediction, now has REF short (134 seats) of an overall majority for the first time.
But given recent developments could we be at Peak Reform?
Hopefully
How anyone can vote for Farage is beyond me
Come come now. They may offend your delicate sensibilities, but do you really think people who voted for the Tories to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands should do so again?
There is nothing delicate in rejecting a fan boy of Trump and his bully boys
He demeans our country and should go and live in New York or Moscow
You’re on form this evening, Big_G.
Hopefully even as an old man I recognise decency and reject bullies, especially powerful narcissistic ones
Just seen in the football the red card for Millwall's keeper, that has to be the most reckless challenge I've ever seen in football. Studs up into the head, that couldn't just end someone's career but someone's life too.
I get Millwall fans love their reputation of "no one likes us, we don't care" but for them to be chanting "let him die" when a player with a head injury is getting treatment is truly disgusting.
What's more shocking though is the FA saying that "let him die" chants aren't a breach of their regulations, but they're going to be investigating homophobic chants aimed at another player as they are. If that's the case, perhaps your regulations are a bit broken.
Compare and contrast to Swindon’s fans response to Tyrone Williams of Chesterfield’s serious injury last week. Genuine concern and respect between two clubs and sets of fans.
Just seen in the football the red card for Millwall's keeper, that has to be the most reckless challenge I've ever seen in football. Studs up into the head, that couldn't just end someone's career but someone's life too.
I get Millwall fans love their reputation of "no one likes us, we don't care" but for them to be chanting "let him die" when a player with a head injury is getting treatment is truly disgusting.
What's more shocking though is the FA saying that "let him die" chants aren't a breach of their regulations, but they're going to be investigating homophobic chants aimed at another player as they are. If that's the case, perhaps your regulations are a bit broken.
Oh, I don't think this one will ever be beaten, Bart:
And incredible as it may seem, the referee didn't even give a foul.
Have you seen today's? It was worse than that. Jumped up and feet into the head, up high.
And also incredible, the referee didn't even give a foul today either. It was VAR that said go to the monitor and then it became a red card, wasn't even a foul without VAR.
"To the extent you feel you can define it, what’s the Trump doctrine?
Part of the problem with Trump is that he is so mercurial. He’s so idiosyncratic that, just when you think you figured out the Trump doctrine, he goes and says something that kind of sounds like the opposite of the Trump doctrine. But I do think that there is one coherent worldview that Trump seems to espouse and has espoused for a long time. The first ad he took out when he was a real estate developer was in 1987. It was an ad about how Japan was ripping us off economically and Europe was ripping us off by free-riding on security. And what that represents, fundamentally, is a rejection of the open international system that the United States and Europe have built over the last eight decades."
Trump’s first visit to Russia was in 1987.
I know it’s considered paranoiac to claim that Trump is a Russian operative but he certainly behaves like it much of the time.
Robert Harris wrote ‘The Ghost’, loosely modelled on the Blair’s, with the idea that the PMs wife was an agent of a foreign power and had been from the start. But that’s fiction. Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? The more prosaic explanation is that he is a massive arse who wants the put USA first. Unpalatable as it is to us in Europe there is an element of truth to the idea that Western Europe has had an easy ride with the US playing role of global peacekeeper. Countries like Ireland, for instance, absolutely take the piss assured that Britain will defend them, and many Americans will say the same about Europe. Isolationism in the US isn’t a new thing, after all.
Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? Google Agent Krasnov and let us know.
It's like the lab leak theory - unlikely we will know either way but circumstantial evidence is strongly supportive and it's the most plausible explanation.
If Trump was a Russian agent he wouldn't have told Europe to increase defence spending and stop depending on Russian energy.
Rather Trump is self-obsessed and self-pitying and thinks he has a score to settle with a lot of people.
Including those European countries who laughed at his advice and then cheered his defeat.
There has to be some plausible deniability, stuff that points the other way. But the key decisions he has made - trying to force Ukraine to cede territory, offering no real security guarantees, weakening NATO, telling Europe it's on its own, taking about ending sanctions - have all benefited Russia. Meanwhile, we have the decades-long links to the Russian state and oligarchs, the dodgy Russian money, the trip to Moscow, the weird subservience to Putin right down to cowed body language, and the relentless parotting of Kremlin talking points.
"We run the world. This is America's world. It’s our proxy. It will end when we say it's over," — Fox News host Jesse Watters on Ukraine and President Zelensky. https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1895762952516735196
Just seen in the football the red card for Millwall's keeper, that has to be the most reckless challenge I've ever seen in football. Studs up into the head, that couldn't just end someone's career but someone's life too.
I get Millwall fans love their reputation of "no one likes us, we don't care" but for them to be chanting "let him die" when a player with a head injury is getting treatment is truly disgusting.
What's more shocking though is the FA saying that "let him die" chants aren't a breach of their regulations, but they're going to be investigating homophobic chants aimed at another player as they are. If that's the case, perhaps your regulations are a bit broken.
Compare and contrast to Swindon’s fans response to Tyrone Williams of Chesterfield’s serious injury last week. Genuine concern and respect between two clubs and sets of fans.
Despite their reputations, I would sooner live in Swindon or Chesterfield, amongst decent people, rather than London, especially SE London.
Interesting that the UK has loaned Ukraine 2.26 billion pounds and that the funds are effectively being guaranteed using the Russian frozen assets .
This suggests that the expenditure won’t effect the UK finances , this also suggests the EU could get round the legal issues surrounding those assets .
Could we see some further very large loans agreed by the EU. So in effect they haven’t confiscated those assets but the EU have said that they won’t be returned until Russia makes reparations.
You are allowed to use seized sovereign funds for reparations.
Either I’m missing something but this development tonight seems like a big deal .
Just seen in the football the red card for Millwall's keeper, that has to be the most reckless challenge I've ever seen in football. Studs up into the head, that couldn't just end someone's career but someone's life too.
I get Millwall fans love their reputation of "no one likes us, we don't care" but for them to be chanting "let him die" when a player with a head injury is getting treatment is truly disgusting.
What's more shocking though is the FA saying that "let him die" chants aren't a breach of their regulations, but they're going to be investigating homophobic chants aimed at another player as they are. If that's the case, perhaps your regulations are a bit broken.
Compare and contrast to Swindon’s fans response to Tyrone Williams of Chesterfield’s serious injury last week. Genuine concern and respect between two clubs and sets of fans.
Despite their reputations, I would sooner live in Swindon or Chesterfield, amongst decent people, rather than London, especially SE London.
Oi SE London is mint, mate. A lot of Millwall's support lives in Kent and Essex anyway.
What the Millwall keeper did today was bad (in general, keepers get away with a lot, he should get a lengthy ban for this), but it wasn’t as bad as Harold Schumacher.
Via @BMGResearch, 25-26 Feb. Changes w/ 28-29 Jan.
Before 28th February verbal assault on decency by Trump and his bullies
Let's see how this pans out over the next few weeks
Voting Reform is voting for Farage and Trump
No, voting for Reform is voting for jobs and hope and a future - that is what an awful lot of people will be thinking.
Low information low engagement voters who are only vaguely interested in politics and world affairs. The horrors of their own lives count for more and you can’t just dismiss that because of your sensibilities on this issue.
You’re right of course - voting Farage is voting for Trump and this for Putin. My point is that when you have nothing you don’t care. And follow news sources who openly say the opposite about Farage and Trump…
"To the extent you feel you can define it, what’s the Trump doctrine?
Part of the problem with Trump is that he is so mercurial. He’s so idiosyncratic that, just when you think you figured out the Trump doctrine, he goes and says something that kind of sounds like the opposite of the Trump doctrine. But I do think that there is one coherent worldview that Trump seems to espouse and has espoused for a long time. The first ad he took out when he was a real estate developer was in 1987. It was an ad about how Japan was ripping us off economically and Europe was ripping us off by free-riding on security. And what that represents, fundamentally, is a rejection of the open international system that the United States and Europe have built over the last eight decades."
Trump’s first visit to Russia was in 1987.
I know it’s considered paranoiac to claim that Trump is a Russian operative but he certainly behaves like it much of the time.
Robert Harris wrote ‘The Ghost’, loosely modelled on the Blair’s, with the idea that the PMs wife was an agent of a foreign power and had been from the start. But that’s fiction. Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? The more prosaic explanation is that he is a massive arse who wants the put USA first. Unpalatable as it is to us in Europe there is an element of truth to the idea that Western Europe has had an easy ride with the US playing role of global peacekeeper. Countries like Ireland, for instance, absolutely take the piss assured that Britain will defend them, and many Americans will say the same about Europe. Isolationism in the US isn’t a new thing, after all.
Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? Google Agent Krasnov and let us know.
It's like the lab leak theory - unlikely we will know either way but circumstantial evidence is strongly supportive and it's the most plausible explanation.
If Trump was a Russian agent he wouldn't have told Europe to increase defence spending and stop depending on Russian energy.
Rather Trump is self-obsessed and self-pitying and thinks he has a score to settle with a lot of people.
Including those European countries who laughed at his advice and then cheered his defeat.
There has to be some plausible deniability, stuff that points the other way. But the key decisions he has made - trying to force Ukraine to cede territory, offering no real security guarantees, weakening NATO, telling Europe it's on its own, taking about ending sanctions - have all benefited Russia. Meanwhile, we have the decades-long links to the Russian state and oligarchs, the dodgy Russian money, the trip to Moscow, the weird subservience to Putin right down to cowed body language, and the relentless parotting of Kremlin talking points.
"To the extent you feel you can define it, what’s the Trump doctrine?
Part of the problem with Trump is that he is so mercurial. He’s so idiosyncratic that, just when you think you figured out the Trump doctrine, he goes and says something that kind of sounds like the opposite of the Trump doctrine. But I do think that there is one coherent worldview that Trump seems to espouse and has espoused for a long time. The first ad he took out when he was a real estate developer was in 1987. It was an ad about how Japan was ripping us off economically and Europe was ripping us off by free-riding on security. And what that represents, fundamentally, is a rejection of the open international system that the United States and Europe have built over the last eight decades."
Trump’s first visit to Russia was in 1987.
I know it’s considered paranoiac to claim that Trump is a Russian operative but he certainly behaves like it much of the time.
Robert Harris wrote ‘The Ghost’, loosely modelled on the Blair’s, with the idea that the PMs wife was an agent of a foreign power and had been from the start. But that’s fiction. Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? The more prosaic explanation is that he is a massive arse who wants the put USA first. Unpalatable as it is to us in Europe there is an element of truth to the idea that Western Europe has had an easy ride with the US playing role of global peacekeeper. Countries like Ireland, for instance, absolutely take the piss assured that Britain will defend them, and many Americans will say the same about Europe. Isolationism in the US isn’t a new thing, after all.
Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? Google Agent Krasnov and let us know.
It's like the lab leak theory - unlikely we will know either way but circumstantial evidence is strongly supportive and it's the most plausible explanation.
If Trump was a Russian agent he wouldn't have told Europe to increase defence spending and stop depending on Russian energy.
Rather Trump is self-obsessed and self-pitying and thinks he has a score to settle with a lot of people.
Including those European countries who laughed at his advice and then cheered his defeat.
There has to be some plausible deniability, stuff that points the other way. But the key decisions he has made - trying to force Ukraine to cede territory, offering no real security guarantees, weakening NATO, telling Europe it's on its own, taking about ending sanctions - have all benefited Russia. Meanwhile, we have the decades-long links to the Russian state and oligarchs, the dodgy Russian money, the trip to Moscow, the weird subservience to Putin right down to cowed body language, and the relentless parotting of Kremlin talking points.
Or Trump is just a self-obsessed, rather ignorant, partially demented bitter cry-baby.
If Trump is some Russian asset then he produced very little for them in his first term.
So why the change now ? It can be easily explained by his desire for personal revenge against people he thinks have personally wronged him.
Just seen in the football the red card for Millwall's keeper, that has to be the most reckless challenge I've ever seen in football. Studs up into the head, that couldn't just end someone's career but someone's life too.
I get Millwall fans love their reputation of "no one likes us, we don't care" but for them to be chanting "let him die" when a player with a head injury is getting treatment is truly disgusting.
What's more shocking though is the FA saying that "let him die" chants aren't a breach of their regulations, but they're going to be investigating homophobic chants aimed at another player as they are. If that's the case, perhaps your regulations are a bit broken.
Just had a look at it. It's a reckless challenge, certainly, but nit in the top 20 worst tackes I've ever seen. It's nit kike Roy Keane acticely setting out to injure Alf-Inge Haaland. Agree abiut the chanting.
"To the extent you feel you can define it, what’s the Trump doctrine?
Part of the problem with Trump is that he is so mercurial. He’s so idiosyncratic that, just when you think you figured out the Trump doctrine, he goes and says something that kind of sounds like the opposite of the Trump doctrine. But I do think that there is one coherent worldview that Trump seems to espouse and has espoused for a long time. The first ad he took out when he was a real estate developer was in 1987. It was an ad about how Japan was ripping us off economically and Europe was ripping us off by free-riding on security. And what that represents, fundamentally, is a rejection of the open international system that the United States and Europe have built over the last eight decades."
Trump’s first visit to Russia was in 1987.
I know it’s considered paranoiac to claim that Trump is a Russian operative but he certainly behaves like it much of the time.
Robert Harris wrote ‘The Ghost’, loosely modelled on the Blair’s, with the idea that the PMs wife was an agent of a foreign power and had been from the start. But that’s fiction. Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? The more prosaic explanation is that he is a massive arse who wants the put USA first. Unpalatable as it is to us in Europe there is an element of truth to the idea that Western Europe has had an easy ride with the US playing role of global peacekeeper. Countries like Ireland, for instance, absolutely take the piss assured that Britain will defend them, and many Americans will say the same about Europe. Isolationism in the US isn’t a new thing, after all.
Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? Google Agent Krasnov and let us know.
It's like the lab leak theory - unlikely we will know either way but circumstantial evidence is strongly supportive and it's the most plausible explanation.
If Trump was a Russian agent he wouldn't have told Europe to increase defence spending and stop depending on Russian energy.
Rather Trump is self-obsessed and self-pitying and thinks he has a score to settle with a lot of people.
Including those European countries who laughed at his advice and then cheered his defeat.
There has to be some plausible deniability, stuff that points the other way. But the key decisions he has made - trying to force Ukraine to cede territory, offering no real security guarantees, weakening NATO, telling Europe it's on its own, taking about ending sanctions - have all benefited Russia. Meanwhile, we have the decades-long links to the Russian state and oligarchs, the dodgy Russian money, the trip to Moscow, the weird subservience to Putin right down to cowed body language, and the relentless parotting of Kremlin talking points.
Just seen in the football the red card for Millwall's keeper, that has to be the most reckless challenge I've ever seen in football. Studs up into the head, that couldn't just end someone's career but someone's life too.
I get Millwall fans love their reputation of "no one likes us, we don't care" but for them to be chanting "let him die" when a player with a head injury is getting treatment is truly disgusting.
What's more shocking though is the FA saying that "let him die" chants aren't a breach of their regulations, but they're going to be investigating homophobic chants aimed at another player as they are. If that's the case, perhaps your regulations are a bit broken.
Compare and contrast to Swindon’s fans response to Tyrone Williams of Chesterfield’s serious injury last week. Genuine concern and respect between two clubs and sets of fans.
Despite their reputations, I would sooner live in Swindon or Chesterfield, amongst decent people, rather than London, especially SE London.
Oi SE London is mint, mate. A lot of Millwall's support lives in Kent and Essex anyway.
Most live over the far side of the Shooters Hill armistice line.
The time has come to start considering a broad coalition of willing for just peace in Ukraine. “Peace” on terms of the aggressor is called a capitulation and would only encourage all current and future aggressors. Free world must stand up to the evil. https://x.com/prezidentpavel/status/1895934812646752643
"To the extent you feel you can define it, what’s the Trump doctrine?
Part of the problem with Trump is that he is so mercurial. He’s so idiosyncratic that, just when you think you figured out the Trump doctrine, he goes and says something that kind of sounds like the opposite of the Trump doctrine. But I do think that there is one coherent worldview that Trump seems to espouse and has espoused for a long time. The first ad he took out when he was a real estate developer was in 1987. It was an ad about how Japan was ripping us off economically and Europe was ripping us off by free-riding on security. And what that represents, fundamentally, is a rejection of the open international system that the United States and Europe have built over the last eight decades."
Trump’s first visit to Russia was in 1987.
I know it’s considered paranoiac to claim that Trump is a Russian operative but he certainly behaves like it much of the time.
Robert Harris wrote ‘The Ghost’, loosely modelled on the Blair’s, with the idea that the PMs wife was an agent of a foreign power and had been from the start. But that’s fiction. Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? The more prosaic explanation is that he is a massive arse who wants the put USA first. Unpalatable as it is to us in Europe there is an element of truth to the idea that Western Europe has had an easy ride with the US playing role of global peacekeeper. Countries like Ireland, for instance, absolutely take the piss assured that Britain will defend them, and many Americans will say the same about Europe. Isolationism in the US isn’t a new thing, after all.
Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? Google Agent Krasnov and let us know.
It's like the lab leak theory - unlikely we will know either way but circumstantial evidence is strongly supportive and it's the most plausible explanation.
If Trump was a Russian agent he wouldn't have told Europe to increase defence spending and stop depending on Russian energy.
Rather Trump is self-obsessed and self-pitying and thinks he has a score to settle with a lot of people.
Including those European countries who laughed at his advice and then cheered his defeat.
There has to be some plausible deniability, stuff that points the other way. But the key decisions he has made - trying to force Ukraine to cede territory, offering no real security guarantees, weakening NATO, telling Europe it's on its own, taking about ending sanctions - have all benefited Russia. Meanwhile, we have the decades-long links to the Russian state and oligarchs, the dodgy Russian money, the trip to Moscow, the weird subservience to Putin right down to cowed body language, and the relentless parotting of Kremlin talking points.
What really seemed to upset Vance and Trump was Zelensky campaigning in Pennsylvania for the Democrats and that wasn't, in fairness, the smartest move. Thank goodness none of our parties were stupid enough to send supporters to campaign for Harris.
I agree this was definitely a trigger. In that context it's funny that Starmer got away with Labour's actions. Once again it shows that this was a hatchet job on Z.
Starmer didn't get away with anything Trump and Vance are seriously harsh about Starmer's restricting free speech and the Apple backdoor nonsense
Watch the WHOLE press conference
I mean specifically the Labour representatives going to campaign for Harris. I didn't see Trump or Vance use that against Starmer; did I miss it?
I think that all of this is a series of tactical exaggerations / misrepresentations, tbh.
Here is an FT piece about a group of Republicans coming to the UK in 2015 to help the Tories campaign in marginal seats. Campaigning with sister parties over the pond is just normal, and has been so since the time of Mrs Thatcher, and perhaps earlier (I wasn't around). https://www.ft.com/content/48d94f08-e82b-11e4-9960-00144feab7de
The President of Ukraine visiting a US Munitions plant with a representative of the US Govt to thank the workers for making shells for his country is actually exactly what Vance was demanding, ie gratitude. The issue is perhaps the Vance fantasises about the state as politicised against him. Vance's demands about "have you thanked us" are nonsense, the USA already having been thanked again at the start of the meeting. I say Vance's upset is entirely tactical.
The free speech stuff is weird. The examples in Vance's Munich speech were fabrications - whether because he's manipulating or because he's ignorant I cannot tell. "Facebook poster jailed for hurty words" claims I have seen have almost all been for far more serious offences, such as calling for hotels full of brown people to be burnt down with the brown people still in them. That's an attempted wedge issue by elements on the Right of our politics, in the hope of using talking points that used to belong to the BNP and similar to build a support base.
IMO it's all mainly Trump & Vance reacting to images they have projected on the inside of their own heads, or a deliberate political tactic. Vance gets seriously harsh when anyone refuses to kneel down and lick the boots.
Bollocks, people ARE doing jailtime for social media, and cops are knocking on doors for literally NON crime "hate incidents"
Free speech is under attack in the UK in a way we have not seen in many decades. Meanwhile we suddenly have a de facto blasphemy law that only protects Islam
There are many reasons to abhor Trump, one of them - for me - is this: his oafish, New Jersey Mafia Don impression is slowing the advance of the new right that will reverse all this shit. Cf Canada
It feels to me like Western Democracy - the amazing fruit of the Enlightenment - is dying.
What is clear is that Europe, plus Canada, Australia & NZ - these places will be the last bastions of Western Democracy, not the US.
The imminent failure of the US as key pillar of democarcy on the alt-right, no one else.
It really is dying. The stats don't lie
EIU’s 2024 Democracy Index: trend of global democratic decline and strengthening authoritarianism continues through 2024
Not much of a surprise. Full democracies has never been as numerous as people in the West think, and several places are backsliding. Any going in the other direction need to be celebrated.
I believe, long term, that democracy is dead
Well, we need to change that - pronto - because one thing linked to the death of democracy is a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
Extra-judicial killings and violence is normal. And that could include you.
A lot of people like the idea of a strong man leader, a leviathan who who won't be constrained by the slowness of democratic systems and will do exactly what they want.
The problem is that one is equally likely to get a strong man leader who shares none of your views and values and who hates people like you: so @Leon ends up with a Jeremy Corbyn strongman, not a Marine Le Pen one.
And, then, of course: how do you get rid of them? The messiness of democracy suddenly looks a lot less unattractive.
What I think we need, though, is to tweak our democratic system so that politicians get the message they're making a mistake quicker. The Chagos deal, for example, is liked by (as far as I can tell) Starmer and... umm... Starmer's mum.
How do we introduce feedback systems around - say EU membership, or Chagos, or shooting up immigration, so that politicians can make smaller decisions quicker (incrementalism) rather than making massive changes (often over-corrections) every four years.
54% say "don't know", and the ludicrous costs of the "deal" were not mentioned, let alone the spurious connection to far away Mauritius
Well, that’s democracy for you. You can think other people wrong, because they’re not considering the full facts of the situation or they have been misled. You can try to persuade people. But you also have to acknowledge that, for whatever reason, other people may settle on a different view to you. Maybe after public debate, the demos will swing around to your point of view, and maybe they won’t.
My point is not to defend or argue against the Chagos deal. It’s to note that rcs1000’s view that no-one likes the Chagos deal, and to use that as an example of democracy failing, is in error. Lots of people, rightly or wrongly, like the deal. I don’t disagree with rcs1000’s broader point, but for democracy to be seen to be working, we need mechanisms by which people can express their views and we need to get out of our own media bubbles.
"We run the world. This is America's world. It’s our proxy. It will end when we say it's over," — Fox News host Jesse Watters on Ukraine and President Zelensky. https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1895762952516735196
"To the extent you feel you can define it, what’s the Trump doctrine?
Part of the problem with Trump is that he is so mercurial. He’s so idiosyncratic that, just when you think you figured out the Trump doctrine, he goes and says something that kind of sounds like the opposite of the Trump doctrine. But I do think that there is one coherent worldview that Trump seems to espouse and has espoused for a long time. The first ad he took out when he was a real estate developer was in 1987. It was an ad about how Japan was ripping us off economically and Europe was ripping us off by free-riding on security. And what that represents, fundamentally, is a rejection of the open international system that the United States and Europe have built over the last eight decades."
Trump’s first visit to Russia was in 1987.
I know it’s considered paranoiac to claim that Trump is a Russian operative but he certainly behaves like it much of the time.
Robert Harris wrote ‘The Ghost’, loosely modelled on the Blair’s, with the idea that the PMs wife was an agent of a foreign power and had been from the start. But that’s fiction. Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? The more prosaic explanation is that he is a massive arse who wants the put USA first. Unpalatable as it is to us in Europe there is an element of truth to the idea that Western Europe has had an easy ride with the US playing role of global peacekeeper. Countries like Ireland, for instance, absolutely take the piss assured that Britain will defend them, and many Americans will say the same about Europe. Isolationism in the US isn’t a new thing, after all.
Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? Google Agent Krasnov and let us know.
It's like the lab leak theory - unlikely we will know either way but circumstantial evidence is strongly supportive and it's the most plausible explanation.
If Trump was a Russian agent he wouldn't have told Europe to increase defence spending and stop depending on Russian energy.
Rather Trump is self-obsessed and self-pitying and thinks he has a score to settle with a lot of people.
Including those European countries who laughed at his advice and then cheered his defeat.
There has to be some plausible deniability, stuff that points the other way. But the key decisions he has made - trying to force Ukraine to cede territory, offering no real security guarantees, weakening NATO, telling Europe it's on its own, taking about ending sanctions - have all benefited Russia. Meanwhile, we have the decades-long links to the Russian state and oligarchs, the dodgy Russian money, the trip to Moscow, the weird subservience to Putin right down to cowed body language, and the relentless parotting of Kremlin talking points.
What really seemed to upset Vance and Trump was Zelensky campaigning in Pennsylvania for the Democrats and that wasn't, in fairness, the smartest move. Thank goodness none of our parties were stupid enough to send supporters to campaign for Harris.
I agree this was definitely a trigger. In that context it's funny that Starmer got away with Labour's actions. Once again it shows that this was a hatchet job on Z.
Starmer didn't get away with anything Trump and Vance are seriously harsh about Starmer's restricting free speech and the Apple backdoor nonsense
Watch the WHOLE press conference
I mean specifically the Labour representatives going to campaign for Harris. I didn't see Trump or Vance use that against Starmer; did I miss it?
I think that all of this is a series of tactical exaggerations / misrepresentations, tbh.
Here is an FT piece about a group of Republicans coming to the UK in 2015 to help the Tories campaign in marginal seats. Campaigning with sister parties over the pond is just normal, and has been so since the time of Mrs Thatcher, and perhaps earlier (I wasn't around). https://www.ft.com/content/48d94f08-e82b-11e4-9960-00144feab7de
The President of Ukraine visiting a US Munitions plant with a representative of the US Govt to thank the workers for making shells for his country is actually exactly what Vance was demanding, ie gratitude. The issue is perhaps the Vance fantasises about the state as politicised against him. Vance's demands about "have you thanked us" are nonsense, the USA already having been thanked again at the start of the meeting. I say Vance's upset is entirely tactical.
The free speech stuff is weird. The examples in Vance's Munich speech were fabrications - whether because he's manipulating or because he's ignorant I cannot tell. "Facebook poster jailed for hurty words" claims I have seen have almost all been for far more serious offences, such as calling for hotels full of brown people to be burnt down with the brown people still in them. That's an attempted wedge issue by elements on the Right of our politics, in the hope of using talking points that used to belong to the BNP and similar to build a support base.
IMO it's all mainly Trump & Vance reacting to images they have projected on the inside of their own heads, or a deliberate political tactic. Vance gets seriously harsh when anyone refuses to kneel down and lick the boots.
Bollocks, people ARE doing jailtime for social media, and cops are knocking on doors for literally NON crime "hate incidents"
Free speech is under attack in the UK in a way we have not seen in many decades. Meanwhile we suddenly have a de facto blasphemy law that only protects Islam
There are many reasons to abhor Trump, one of them - for me - is this: his oafish, New Jersey Mafia Don impression is slowing the advance of the new right that will reverse all this shit. Cf Canada
It feels to me like Western Democracy - the amazing fruit of the Enlightenment - is dying.
What is clear is that Europe, plus Canada, Australia & NZ - these places will be the last bastions of Western Democracy, not the US.
The imminent failure of the US as key pillar of democarcy on the alt-right, no one else.
It really is dying. The stats don't lie
EIU’s 2024 Democracy Index: trend of global democratic decline and strengthening authoritarianism continues through 2024
Not much of a surprise. Full democracies has never been as numerous as people in the West think, and several places are backsliding. Any going in the other direction need to be celebrated.
I believe, long term, that democracy is dead
Well, we need to change that - pronto - because one thing linked to the death of democracy is a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
Extra-judicial killings and violence is normal. And that could include you.
A lot of people like the idea of a strong man leader, a leviathan who who won't be constrained by the slowness of democratic systems and will do exactly what they want.
The problem is that one is equally likely to get a strong man leader who shares none of your views and values and who hates people like you: so @Leon ends up with a Jeremy Corbyn strongman, not a Marine Le Pen one.
And, then, of course: how do you get rid of them? The messiness of democracy suddenly looks a lot less unattractive.
What I think we need, though, is to tweak our democratic system so that politicians get the message they're making a mistake quicker. The Chagos deal, for example, is liked by (as far as I can tell) Starmer and... umm... Starmer's mum.
How do we introduce feedback systems around - say EU membership, or Chagos, or shooting up immigration, so that politicians can make smaller decisions quicker (incrementalism) rather than making massive changes (often over-corrections) every four years.
54% say "don't know", and the ludicrous costs of the "deal" were not mentioned, let alone the spurious connection to far away Mauritius
Well, that’s democracy for you. You can think other people wrong, because they’re not considering the full facts of the situation or they have been misled. You can try to persuade people. But you also have to acknowledge that, for whatever reason, other people may settle on a different view to you. Maybe after public debate, the demos will swing around to your point of view, and maybe they won’t.
My point is not to defend or argue against the Chagos deal. It’s to note that rcs1000’s view that no-one likes the Chagos deal, and to use that as an example of democracy failing, is in error. Lots of people, rightly or wrongly, like the deal. I don’t disagree with rcs1000’s broader point, but for democracy to be seen to be working, we need mechanisms by which people can express their views and we need to get out of our own media bubbles.
Okay, my point is the vacuity of this kind of polling
The prime minister has spoken to President Zelenskyy, and President Trump and President Macron this evening, with the intent of bridging the rift between Zelenskyy and Trump
I’m not sure this is sensible, but it’s hard to ignore.
After yesterday's events in the White House, Haltbakk Bunkers, one of Norway's largest marine fuel companies, appears to have announced that it will no longer refuel American Navy vessels.
The prime minister has spoken to President Zelenskyy, and President Trump and President Macron this evening, with the intent of bridging the rift between Zelenskyy and Trump
"To the extent you feel you can define it, what’s the Trump doctrine?
Part of the problem with Trump is that he is so mercurial. He’s so idiosyncratic that, just when you think you figured out the Trump doctrine, he goes and says something that kind of sounds like the opposite of the Trump doctrine. But I do think that there is one coherent worldview that Trump seems to espouse and has espoused for a long time. The first ad he took out when he was a real estate developer was in 1987. It was an ad about how Japan was ripping us off economically and Europe was ripping us off by free-riding on security. And what that represents, fundamentally, is a rejection of the open international system that the United States and Europe have built over the last eight decades."
Trump’s first visit to Russia was in 1987.
I know it’s considered paranoiac to claim that Trump is a Russian operative but he certainly behaves like it much of the time.
Robert Harris wrote ‘The Ghost’, loosely modelled on the Blair’s, with the idea that the PMs wife was an agent of a foreign power and had been from the start. But that’s fiction. Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? The more prosaic explanation is that he is a massive arse who wants the put USA first. Unpalatable as it is to us in Europe there is an element of truth to the idea that Western Europe has had an easy ride with the US playing role of global peacekeeper. Countries like Ireland, for instance, absolutely take the piss assured that Britain will defend them, and many Americans will say the same about Europe. Isolationism in the US isn’t a new thing, after all.
Does anyone seriously believe that Trump is a Russian agent? Google Agent Krasnov and let us know.
It's like the lab leak theory - unlikely we will know either way but circumstantial evidence is strongly supportive and it's the most plausible explanation.
If Trump was a Russian agent he wouldn't have told Europe to increase defence spending and stop depending on Russian energy.
Rather Trump is self-obsessed and self-pitying and thinks he has a score to settle with a lot of people.
Including those European countries who laughed at his advice and then cheered his defeat.
There has to be some plausible deniability, stuff that points the other way. But the key decisions he has made - trying to force Ukraine to cede territory, offering no real security guarantees, weakening NATO, telling Europe it's on its own, taking about ending sanctions - have all benefited Russia. Meanwhile, we have the decades-long links to the Russian state and oligarchs, the dodgy Russian money, the trip to Moscow, the weird subservience to Putin right down to cowed body language, and the relentless parotting of Kremlin talking points.
"A baseless conspiracy theory is circulating among pro-Trump social media users alleging that high-profile Democratic figures Antony Blinken, Susan Rice, Victoria Nuland, and Alexander Vindman held a conference call with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy during his flight to Washington.
The conspiracy theory went viral, with Republicans including US special envoy, Richard Grenell, spreading the baseless claim.
The claim suggests that they advised him to “stand strong” and be “tough” against president Donald Trump before the confrontation between Zelenskyy, Trump, and vice president JD Vance in the Oval Office took place.
Worth noting: The initial claim, posted by a pro-Trump author on social media, provided no source or evidence and was later acknowledged by herself as speculation."
Currently the EU has given some loans to Ukraine and used the interest on the Russian assets as collateral. It’s a different matter though if instead of the interest as collateral the assets themselves are used for that purpose . It’s not a 100% clear tonight what the UK government is using. The Ukrainian finance minister just mentioned Russian assets .
I’m not sure this is sensible, but it’s hard to ignore.
After yesterday's events in the White House, Haltbakk Bunkers, one of Norway's largest marine fuel companies, appears to have announced that it will no longer refuel American Navy vessels.
A comment from a friend in Kyiv with government connections:
“Zelensky doesn’t need Trump’s help to give Putin four regions, downsize the army, and abandon NATO aspirations. If he wanted to surrender to Putin, he would have gone to Moscow, not Washington.” Well said, btw. https://x.com/SlawomirDebski/status/1895560843359887809
"We run the world. This is America's world. It’s our proxy. It will end when we say it's over," — Fox News host Jesse Watters on Ukraine and President Zelensky. https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1895762952516735196
They really are quite insane.
They are never going to cope when China eclipses them, and that will happen, and sooner now due to their actions.
"We run the world. This is America's world. It’s our proxy. It will end when we say it's over," — Fox News host Jesse Watters on Ukraine and President Zelensky. https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1895762952516735196
They really are quite insane.
Nah. It’s just another Russian talking point - denying Ukraine it’s own agency; it’s a pawn of the west
Can you imagine what it feels like to be a hillbilly these days. Your brand is ratnered. Hillbillies up and down Appalachia feeling so embarrassed, centuries of careful curation of a public image of backwardness and stupidity take too far by one of their own.
I guess that it shouldn’t be a surprise as “advanced” suggests progression whereas “Vanced” must mean “backwards”.
What really seemed to upset Vance and Trump was Zelensky campaigning in Pennsylvania for the Democrats and that wasn't, in fairness, the smartest move. Thank goodness none of our parties were stupid enough to send supporters to campaign for Harris.
I agree this was definitely a trigger. In that context it's funny that Starmer got away with Labour's actions. Once again it shows that this was a hatchet job on Z.
Starmer didn't get away with anything Trump and Vance are seriously harsh about Starmer's restricting free speech and the Apple backdoor nonsense
Watch the WHOLE press conference
I mean specifically the Labour representatives going to campaign for Harris. I didn't see Trump or Vance use that against Starmer; did I miss it?
I think that all of this is a series of tactical exaggerations / misrepresentations, tbh.
Here is an FT piece about a group of Republicans coming to the UK in 2015 to help the Tories campaign in marginal seats. Campaigning with sister parties over the pond is just normal, and has been so since the time of Mrs Thatcher, and perhaps earlier (I wasn't around). https://www.ft.com/content/48d94f08-e82b-11e4-9960-00144feab7de
The President of Ukraine visiting a US Munitions plant with a representative of the US Govt to thank the workers for making shells for his country is actually exactly what Vance was demanding, ie gratitude. The issue is perhaps the Vance fantasises about the state as politicised against him. Vance's demands about "have you thanked us" are nonsense, the USA already having been thanked again at the start of the meeting. I say Vance's upset is entirely tactical.
The free speech stuff is weird. The examples in Vance's Munich speech were fabrications - whether because he's manipulating or because he's ignorant I cannot tell. "Facebook poster jailed for hurty words" claims I have seen have almost all been for far more serious offences, such as calling for hotels full of brown people to be burnt down with the brown people still in them. That's an attempted wedge issue by elements on the Right of our politics, in the hope of using talking points that used to belong to the BNP and similar to build a support base.
IMO it's all mainly Trump & Vance reacting to images they have projected on the inside of their own heads, or a deliberate political tactic. Vance gets seriously harsh when anyone refuses to kneel down and lick the boots.
Bollocks, people ARE doing jailtime for social media, and cops are knocking on doors for literally NON crime "hate incidents"
Free speech is under attack in the UK in a way we have not seen in many decades. Meanwhile we suddenly have a de facto blasphemy law that only protects Islam
There are many reasons to abhor Trump, one of them - for me - is this: his oafish, New Jersey Mafia Don impression is slowing the advance of the new right that will reverse all this shit. Cf Canada
It feels to me like Western Democracy - the amazing fruit of the Enlightenment - is dying.
What is clear is that Europe, plus Canada, Australia & NZ - these places will be the last bastions of Western Democracy, not the US.
The imminent failure of the US as key pillar of democarcy on the alt-right, no one else.
It really is dying. The stats don't lie
EIU’s 2024 Democracy Index: trend of global democratic decline and strengthening authoritarianism continues through 2024
Not much of a surprise. Full democracies has never been as numerous as people in the West think, and several places are backsliding. Any going in the other direction need to be celebrated.
I believe, long term, that democracy is dead
Well, we need to change that - pronto - because one thing linked to the death of democracy is a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
Extra-judicial killings and violence is normal. And that could include you.
A lot of people like the idea of a strong man leader, a leviathan who who won't be constrained by the slowness of democratic systems and will do exactly what they want.
The problem is that one is equally likely to get a strong man leader who shares none of your views and values and who hates people like you: so @Leon ends up with a Jeremy Corbyn strongman, not a Marine Le Pen one.
And, then, of course: how do you get rid of them? The messiness of democracy suddenly looks a lot less unattractive.
What I think we need, though, is to tweak our democratic system so that politicians get the message they're making a mistake quicker. The Chagos deal, for example, is liked by (as far as I can tell) Starmer and... umm... Starmer's mum.
How do we introduce feedback systems around - say EU membership, or Chagos, or shooting up immigration, so that politicians can make smaller decisions quicker (incrementalism) rather than making massive changes (often over-corrections) every four years.
54% say "don't know", and the ludicrous costs of the "deal" were not mentioned, let alone the spurious connection to far away Mauritius
Well, that’s democracy for you. You can think other people wrong, because they’re not considering the full facts of the situation or they have been misled. You can try to persuade people. But you also have to acknowledge that, for whatever reason, other people may settle on a different view to you. Maybe after public debate, the demos will swing around to your point of view, and maybe they won’t.
My point is not to defend or argue against the Chagos deal. It’s to note that rcs1000’s view that no-one likes the Chagos deal, and to use that as an example of democracy failing, is in error. Lots of people, rightly or wrongly, like the deal. I don’t disagree with rcs1000’s broader point, but for democracy to be seen to be working, we need mechanisms by which people can express their views and we need to get out of our own media bubbles.
Okay, my point is the vacuity of this kind of polling
OK, sure. I agree there are problems with this sort of polling. So, do you think there is a mechanism between elections “so that politicians get the message they're making a mistake quicker”, as per rcs1000’s suggestion?
The prime minister has spoken to President Zelenskyy, and President Trump and President Macron this evening, with the intent of bridging the rift between Zelenskyy and Trump
Credit where it is due
I have to mea culpa on this. I was very pissed off by what looked like a typical fawning performance by a PM in Washington on Thursday, and then a worrying silence yesterday after the ambush. But it does seem Starmer and his advisers knew what they were doing.
Let’s see if it bears fruit. It’s encouraging that Britain and France are working in synch this weekend.
"A baseless conspiracy theory is circulating among pro-Trump social media users alleging that high-profile Democratic figures Antony Blinken, Susan Rice, Victoria Nuland, and Alexander Vindman held a conference call with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy during his flight to Washington.
The conspiracy theory went viral, with Republicans including US special envoy, Richard Grenell, spreading the baseless claim.
The claim suggests that they advised him to “stand strong” and be “tough” against president Donald Trump before the confrontation between Zelenskyy, Trump, and vice president JD Vance in the Oval Office took place.
Worth noting: The initial claim, posted by a pro-Trump author on social media, provided no source or evidence and was later acknowledged by herself as speculation."
This is how the populist right works. They lie. Some fall for it (as with several regulars on PB).
That's the charitable view of the populist right (and the populist left is just as bad).
The uncharitable view has the original source of this garbage being 2000 miles east of here rather than 3000 miles west, and the initial spreaders knowing this full well, and even being paid to do the Russians' dirty work for them.
We should investigate these people as thoroughly as we used to Russian agents during the Cold War. They are entitled to their opinions, however demented, but they can't be allowed undermine the security of the west by spreading Russian filth.
"We run the world. This is America's world. It’s our proxy. It will end when we say it's over," — Fox News host Jesse Watters on Ukraine and President Zelensky. https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1895762952516735196
They really are quite insane.
They are never going to cope when China eclipses them, and that will happen, and sooner now due to their actions.
I’m not sure this is sensible, but it’s hard to ignore.
After yesterday's events in the White House, Haltbakk Bunkers, one of Norway's largest marine fuel companies, appears to have announced that it will no longer refuel American Navy vessels.
I’m not sure this is sensible, but it’s hard to ignore.
After yesterday's events in the White House, Haltbakk Bunkers, one of Norway's largest marine fuel companies, appears to have announced that it will no longer refuel American Navy vessels.
I’m not sure this is sensible, but it’s hard to ignore.
After yesterday's events in the White House, Haltbakk Bunkers, one of Norway's largest marine fuel companies, appears to have announced that it will no longer refuel American Navy vessels.
What really seemed to upset Vance and Trump was Zelensky campaigning in Pennsylvania for the Democrats and that wasn't, in fairness, the smartest move. Thank goodness none of our parties were stupid enough to send supporters to campaign for Harris.
I agree this was definitely a trigger. In that context it's funny that Starmer got away with Labour's actions. Once again it shows that this was a hatchet job on Z.
Starmer didn't get away with anything Trump and Vance are seriously harsh about Starmer's restricting free speech and the Apple backdoor nonsense
Watch the WHOLE press conference
I mean specifically the Labour representatives going to campaign for Harris. I didn't see Trump or Vance use that against Starmer; did I miss it?
I think that all of this is a series of tactical exaggerations / misrepresentations, tbh.
Here is an FT piece about a group of Republicans coming to the UK in 2015 to help the Tories campaign in marginal seats. Campaigning with sister parties over the pond is just normal, and has been so since the time of Mrs Thatcher, and perhaps earlier (I wasn't around). https://www.ft.com/content/48d94f08-e82b-11e4-9960-00144feab7de
The President of Ukraine visiting a US Munitions plant with a representative of the US Govt to thank the workers for making shells for his country is actually exactly what Vance was demanding, ie gratitude. The issue is perhaps the Vance fantasises about the state as politicised against him. Vance's demands about "have you thanked us" are nonsense, the USA already having been thanked again at the start of the meeting. I say Vance's upset is entirely tactical.
The free speech stuff is weird. The examples in Vance's Munich speech were fabrications - whether because he's manipulating or because he's ignorant I cannot tell. "Facebook poster jailed for hurty words" claims I have seen have almost all been for far more serious offences, such as calling for hotels full of brown people to be burnt down with the brown people still in them. That's an attempted wedge issue by elements on the Right of our politics, in the hope of using talking points that used to belong to the BNP and similar to build a support base.
IMO it's all mainly Trump & Vance reacting to images they have projected on the inside of their own heads, or a deliberate political tactic. Vance gets seriously harsh when anyone refuses to kneel down and lick the boots.
Bollocks, people ARE doing jailtime for social media, and cops are knocking on doors for literally NON crime "hate incidents"
Free speech is under attack in the UK in a way we have not seen in many decades. Meanwhile we suddenly have a de facto blasphemy law that only protects Islam
There are many reasons to abhor Trump, one of them - for me - is this: his oafish, New Jersey Mafia Don impression is slowing the advance of the new right that will reverse all this shit. Cf Canada
It feels to me like Western Democracy - the amazing fruit of the Enlightenment - is dying.
What is clear is that Europe, plus Canada, Australia & NZ - these places will be the last bastions of Western Democracy, not the US.
The imminent failure of the US as key pillar of democarcy on the alt-right, no one else.
It really is dying. The stats don't lie
EIU’s 2024 Democracy Index: trend of global democratic decline and strengthening authoritarianism continues through 2024
Not much of a surprise. Full democracies has never been as numerous as people in the West think, and several places are backsliding. Any going in the other direction need to be celebrated.
I believe, long term, that democracy is dead
Well, we need to change that - pronto - because one thing linked to the death of democracy is a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
Extra-judicial killings and violence is normal. And that could include you.
A lot of people like the idea of a strong man leader, a leviathan who who won't be constrained by the slowness of democratic systems and will do exactly what they want.
The problem is that one is equally likely to get a strong man leader who shares none of your views and values and who hates people like you: so @Leon ends up with a Jeremy Corbyn strongman, not a Marine Le Pen one.
And, then, of course: how do you get rid of them? The messiness of democracy suddenly looks a lot less unattractive.
What I think we need, though, is to tweak our democratic system so that politicians get the message they're making a mistake quicker. The Chagos deal, for example, is liked by (as far as I can tell) Starmer and... umm... Starmer's mum.
How do we introduce feedback systems around - say EU membership, or Chagos, or shooting up immigration, so that politicians can make smaller decisions quicker (incrementalism) rather than making massive changes (often over-corrections) every four years.
54% say "don't know", and the ludicrous costs of the "deal" were not mentioned, let alone the spurious connection to far away Mauritius
Well, that’s democracy for you. You can think other people wrong, because they’re not considering the full facts of the situation or they have been misled. You can try to persuade people. But you also have to acknowledge that, for whatever reason, other people may settle on a different view to you. Maybe after public debate, the demos will swing around to your point of view, and maybe they won’t.
My point is not to defend or argue against the Chagos deal. It’s to note that rcs1000’s view that no-one likes the Chagos deal, and to use that as an example of democracy failing, is in error. Lots of people, rightly or wrongly, like the deal. I don’t disagree with rcs1000’s broader point, but for democracy to be seen to be working, we need mechanisms by which people can express their views and we need to get out of our own media bubbles.
Okay, my point is the vacuity of this kind of polling
OK, sure. I agree there are problems with this sort of polling. So, do you think there is a mechanism between elections “so that politicians get the message they're making a mistake quicker”, as per rcs1000’s suggestion?
Yes: every week there should be a byelection in a random seat. That means that - over the course of a four year parliament - there are about 220 byelections.
"We run the world. This is America's world. It’s our proxy. It will end when we say it's over," — Fox News host Jesse Watters on Ukraine and President Zelensky. https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1895762952516735196
They really are quite insane.
It may not seem like it now, but there are some worse people than Trump in the GOP. He is scary - but at the end of the day he is an self-centred, self-preserving idiot. There are some far more sinister characters we should really hope don’t follow on from him.
Starmer seems to be trying to find a way for Trump to climb down without being utterly humiliated, as he would be if the Europeans, including the UK, give Ukraine sufficient resources to carry on the war until Russia is exhausted (which I believe to be imminent). If the Europeans do that Trump loses the leverage that he has attempted to deploy so brutally yesterday but let's not pretend that it would be easy for Europe given their own dependency on US logistical capacity.
Of course, for diplomatic reasons, everyone will need to pretend that this is not a climb down for the US and Trump will have to be allowed to save some face somehow. But if Starmer achieves this he will have more than made up for the months of inaction and ineptitude since the election, he will show himself to be a true leader in difficult times.
What really seemed to upset Vance and Trump was Zelensky campaigning in Pennsylvania for the Democrats and that wasn't, in fairness, the smartest move. Thank goodness none of our parties were stupid enough to send supporters to campaign for Harris.
I agree this was definitely a trigger. In that context it's funny that Starmer got away with Labour's actions. Once again it shows that this was a hatchet job on Z.
Starmer didn't get away with anything Trump and Vance are seriously harsh about Starmer's restricting free speech and the Apple backdoor nonsense
Watch the WHOLE press conference
I mean specifically the Labour representatives going to campaign for Harris. I didn't see Trump or Vance use that against Starmer; did I miss it?
I think that all of this is a series of tactical exaggerations / misrepresentations, tbh.
Here is an FT piece about a group of Republicans coming to the UK in 2015 to help the Tories campaign in marginal seats. Campaigning with sister parties over the pond is just normal, and has been so since the time of Mrs Thatcher, and perhaps earlier (I wasn't around). https://www.ft.com/content/48d94f08-e82b-11e4-9960-00144feab7de
The President of Ukraine visiting a US Munitions plant with a representative of the US Govt to thank the workers for making shells for his country is actually exactly what Vance was demanding, ie gratitude. The issue is perhaps the Vance fantasises about the state as politicised against him. Vance's demands about "have you thanked us" are nonsense, the USA already having been thanked again at the start of the meeting. I say Vance's upset is entirely tactical.
The free speech stuff is weird. The examples in Vance's Munich speech were fabrications - whether because he's manipulating or because he's ignorant I cannot tell. "Facebook poster jailed for hurty words" claims I have seen have almost all been for far more serious offences, such as calling for hotels full of brown people to be burnt down with the brown people still in them. That's an attempted wedge issue by elements on the Right of our politics, in the hope of using talking points that used to belong to the BNP and similar to build a support base.
IMO it's all mainly Trump & Vance reacting to images they have projected on the inside of their own heads, or a deliberate political tactic. Vance gets seriously harsh when anyone refuses to kneel down and lick the boots.
Bollocks, people ARE doing jailtime for social media, and cops are knocking on doors for literally NON crime "hate incidents"
Free speech is under attack in the UK in a way we have not seen in many decades. Meanwhile we suddenly have a de facto blasphemy law that only protects Islam
There are many reasons to abhor Trump, one of them - for me - is this: his oafish, New Jersey Mafia Don impression is slowing the advance of the new right that will reverse all this shit. Cf Canada
It feels to me like Western Democracy - the amazing fruit of the Enlightenment - is dying.
What is clear is that Europe, plus Canada, Australia & NZ - these places will be the last bastions of Western Democracy, not the US.
The imminent failure of the US as key pillar of democarcy on the alt-right, no one else.
It really is dying. The stats don't lie
EIU’s 2024 Democracy Index: trend of global democratic decline and strengthening authoritarianism continues through 2024
Not much of a surprise. Full democracies has never been as numerous as people in the West think, and several places are backsliding. Any going in the other direction need to be celebrated.
I believe, long term, that democracy is dead
Well, we need to change that - pronto - because one thing linked to the death of democracy is a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
Extra-judicial killings and violence is normal. And that could include you.
A lot of people like the idea of a strong man leader, a leviathan who who won't be constrained by the slowness of democratic systems and will do exactly what they want.
The problem is that one is equally likely to get a strong man leader who shares none of your views and values and who hates people like you: so @Leon ends up with a Jeremy Corbyn strongman, not a Marine Le Pen one.
And, then, of course: how do you get rid of them? The messiness of democracy suddenly looks a lot less unattractive.
What I think we need, though, is to tweak our democratic system so that politicians get the message they're making a mistake quicker. The Chagos deal, for example, is liked by (as far as I can tell) Starmer and... umm... Starmer's mum.
How do we introduce feedback systems around - say EU membership, or Chagos, or shooting up immigration, so that politicians can make smaller decisions quicker (incrementalism) rather than making massive changes (often over-corrections) every four years.
54% say "don't know", and the ludicrous costs of the "deal" were not mentioned, let alone the spurious connection to far away Mauritius
Well, that’s democracy for you. You can think other people wrong, because they’re not considering the full facts of the situation or they have been misled. You can try to persuade people. But you also have to acknowledge that, for whatever reason, other people may settle on a different view to you. Maybe after public debate, the demos will swing around to your point of view, and maybe they won’t.
My point is not to defend or argue against the Chagos deal. It’s to note that rcs1000’s view that no-one likes the Chagos deal, and to use that as an example of democracy failing, is in error. Lots of people, rightly or wrongly, like the deal. I don’t disagree with rcs1000’s broader point, but for democracy to be seen to be working, we need mechanisms by which people can express their views and we need to get out of our own media bubbles.
Okay, my point is the vacuity of this kind of polling
OK, sure. I agree there are problems with this sort of polling. So, do you think there is a mechanism between elections “so that politicians get the message they're making a mistake quicker”, as per rcs1000’s suggestion?
iirc he was talking about a stabilising feedback mechanism - that requires them recognising the difference between policy aims and performance and being able to take corrective action. So getting the message is only part of it, but yes, more apt polling would certainly help there
p.s. meanwhile RCS100 has suggested regular by-elections ... that may help ... or perhaps issues-based referenda ... but let's not get carried away
Just seen in the football the red card for Millwall's keeper, that has to be the most reckless challenge I've ever seen in football. Studs up into the head, that couldn't just end someone's career but someone's life too.
I get Millwall fans love their reputation of "no one likes us, we don't care" but for them to be chanting "let him die" when a player with a head injury is getting treatment is truly disgusting.
What's more shocking though is the FA saying that "let him die" chants aren't a breach of their regulations, but they're going to be investigating homophobic chants aimed at another player as they are. If that's the case, perhaps your regulations are a bit broken.
Compare and contrast to Swindon’s fans response to Tyrone Williams of Chesterfield’s serious injury last week. Genuine concern and respect between two clubs and sets of fans.
The FA, after careful legal advice, ruled that being an actual UN described War Criminal did not breach the FA rules for ownership of a club.
The FA decided that War Criminals are Fit & Proper to be club owners.
Why would you expect such an organisation to posses a moral compass?
What really seemed to upset Vance and Trump was Zelensky campaigning in Pennsylvania for the Democrats and that wasn't, in fairness, the smartest move. Thank goodness none of our parties were stupid enough to send supporters to campaign for Harris.
I agree this was definitely a trigger. In that context it's funny that Starmer got away with Labour's actions. Once again it shows that this was a hatchet job on Z.
Starmer didn't get away with anything Trump and Vance are seriously harsh about Starmer's restricting free speech and the Apple backdoor nonsense
Watch the WHOLE press conference
I mean specifically the Labour representatives going to campaign for Harris. I didn't see Trump or Vance use that against Starmer; did I miss it?
I think that all of this is a series of tactical exaggerations / misrepresentations, tbh.
Here is an FT piece about a group of Republicans coming to the UK in 2015 to help the Tories campaign in marginal seats. Campaigning with sister parties over the pond is just normal, and has been so since the time of Mrs Thatcher, and perhaps earlier (I wasn't around). https://www.ft.com/content/48d94f08-e82b-11e4-9960-00144feab7de
The President of Ukraine visiting a US Munitions plant with a representative of the US Govt to thank the workers for making shells for his country is actually exactly what Vance was demanding, ie gratitude. The issue is perhaps the Vance fantasises about the state as politicised against him. Vance's demands about "have you thanked us" are nonsense, the USA already having been thanked again at the start of the meeting. I say Vance's upset is entirely tactical.
The free speech stuff is weird. The examples in Vance's Munich speech were fabrications - whether because he's manipulating or because he's ignorant I cannot tell. "Facebook poster jailed for hurty words" claims I have seen have almost all been for far more serious offences, such as calling for hotels full of brown people to be burnt down with the brown people still in them. That's an attempted wedge issue by elements on the Right of our politics, in the hope of using talking points that used to belong to the BNP and similar to build a support base.
IMO it's all mainly Trump & Vance reacting to images they have projected on the inside of their own heads, or a deliberate political tactic. Vance gets seriously harsh when anyone refuses to kneel down and lick the boots.
Bollocks, people ARE doing jailtime for social media, and cops are knocking on doors for literally NON crime "hate incidents"
Free speech is under attack in the UK in a way we have not seen in many decades. Meanwhile we suddenly have a de facto blasphemy law that only protects Islam
There are many reasons to abhor Trump, one of them - for me - is this: his oafish, New Jersey Mafia Don impression is slowing the advance of the new right that will reverse all this shit. Cf Canada
It feels to me like Western Democracy - the amazing fruit of the Enlightenment - is dying.
What is clear is that Europe, plus Canada, Australia & NZ - these places will be the last bastions of Western Democracy, not the US.
The imminent failure of the US as key pillar of democarcy on the alt-right, no one else.
It really is dying. The stats don't lie
EIU’s 2024 Democracy Index: trend of global democratic decline and strengthening authoritarianism continues through 2024
Not much of a surprise. Full democracies has never been as numerous as people in the West think, and several places are backsliding. Any going in the other direction need to be celebrated.
I believe, long term, that democracy is dead
Well, we need to change that - pronto - because one thing linked to the death of democracy is a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
Extra-judicial killings and violence is normal. And that could include you.
A lot of people like the idea of a strong man leader, a leviathan who who won't be constrained by the slowness of democratic systems and will do exactly what they want.
The problem is that one is equally likely to get a strong man leader who shares none of your views and values and who hates people like you: so @Leon ends up with a Jeremy Corbyn strongman, not a Marine Le Pen one.
And, then, of course: how do you get rid of them? The messiness of democracy suddenly looks a lot less unattractive.
What I think we need, though, is to tweak our democratic system so that politicians get the message they're making a mistake quicker. The Chagos deal, for example, is liked by (as far as I can tell) Starmer and... umm... Starmer's mum.
How do we introduce feedback systems around - say EU membership, or Chagos, or shooting up immigration, so that politicians can make smaller decisions quicker (incrementalism) rather than making massive changes (often over-corrections) every four years.
54% say "don't know", and the ludicrous costs of the "deal" were not mentioned, let alone the spurious connection to far away Mauritius
Well, that’s democracy for you. You can think other people wrong, because they’re not considering the full facts of the situation or they have been misled. You can try to persuade people. But you also have to acknowledge that, for whatever reason, other people may settle on a different view to you. Maybe after public debate, the demos will swing around to your point of view, and maybe they won’t.
My point is not to defend or argue against the Chagos deal. It’s to note that rcs1000’s view that no-one likes the Chagos deal, and to use that as an example of democracy failing, is in error. Lots of people, rightly or wrongly, like the deal. I don’t disagree with rcs1000’s broader point, but for democracy to be seen to be working, we need mechanisms by which people can express their views and we need to get out of our own media bubbles.
Okay, my point is the vacuity of this kind of polling
Don’t back down Geoff, I think you were spot on first time - over 54% don’t know suggests an awful lot of people don’t feel they truly understand it, or feel they do understand it enough to not give a damn.
It is odd though, considering there has been a lot of frothy hatred of Chagos deal in the dead tree media, and absolutely no one on PB (I’m aware of) defending it, that polling keeps throwing up polls of support for Chagos Deal, and over half merely shrugging not at all worked up. From this same poll “politics” section, Conservatives are against, but only by 37% to 21% with 42% don’t know.
Before I started looking into it, I would have answered agains the deal, believing I knew enough about it to think it bad for national security and bizarre we are willing to unnecessarily pay so much good money for no good reason. Now I understand Chagos Deal inside out, my answer would still be strongly opposed to it going ahead, though for very different reasoning - my own preferred position (impossible though it is due to our ties to US defence systems) is now identical to the view Lord Dannatt expressed: just gift ownership to the US and India and walk away never to get involved again.
Gut reaction should be oppose because it don’t make any sense, going from a gut reaction to knowing what it’s really about, should also be strongly oppose, so I don’t understand why polls pick up so much support and so much indifference.
I’m not sure this is sensible, but it’s hard to ignore.
After yesterday's events in the White House, Haltbakk Bunkers, one of Norway's largest marine fuel companies, appears to have announced that it will no longer refuel American Navy vessels.
What really seemed to upset Vance and Trump was Zelensky campaigning in Pennsylvania for the Democrats and that wasn't, in fairness, the smartest move. Thank goodness none of our parties were stupid enough to send supporters to campaign for Harris.
I agree this was definitely a trigger. In that context it's funny that Starmer got away with Labour's actions. Once again it shows that this was a hatchet job on Z.
Starmer didn't get away with anything Trump and Vance are seriously harsh about Starmer's restricting free speech and the Apple backdoor nonsense
Watch the WHOLE press conference
I mean specifically the Labour representatives going to campaign for Harris. I didn't see Trump or Vance use that against Starmer; did I miss it?
I think that all of this is a series of tactical exaggerations / misrepresentations, tbh.
Here is an FT piece about a group of Republicans coming to the UK in 2015 to help the Tories campaign in marginal seats. Campaigning with sister parties over the pond is just normal, and has been so since the time of Mrs Thatcher, and perhaps earlier (I wasn't around). https://www.ft.com/content/48d94f08-e82b-11e4-9960-00144feab7de
The President of Ukraine visiting a US Munitions plant with a representative of the US Govt to thank the workers for making shells for his country is actually exactly what Vance was demanding, ie gratitude. The issue is perhaps the Vance fantasises about the state as politicised against him. Vance's demands about "have you thanked us" are nonsense, the USA already having been thanked again at the start of the meeting. I say Vance's upset is entirely tactical.
The free speech stuff is weird. The examples in Vance's Munich speech were fabrications - whether because he's manipulating or because he's ignorant I cannot tell. "Facebook poster jailed for hurty words" claims I have seen have almost all been for far more serious offences, such as calling for hotels full of brown people to be burnt down with the brown people still in them. That's an attempted wedge issue by elements on the Right of our politics, in the hope of using talking points that used to belong to the BNP and similar to build a support base.
IMO it's all mainly Trump & Vance reacting to images they have projected on the inside of their own heads, or a deliberate political tactic. Vance gets seriously harsh when anyone refuses to kneel down and lick the boots.
Bollocks, people ARE doing jailtime for social media, and cops are knocking on doors for literally NON crime "hate incidents"
Free speech is under attack in the UK in a way we have not seen in many decades. Meanwhile we suddenly have a de facto blasphemy law that only protects Islam
There are many reasons to abhor Trump, one of them - for me - is this: his oafish, New Jersey Mafia Don impression is slowing the advance of the new right that will reverse all this shit. Cf Canada
It feels to me like Western Democracy - the amazing fruit of the Enlightenment - is dying.
What is clear is that Europe, plus Canada, Australia & NZ - these places will be the last bastions of Western Democracy, not the US.
The imminent failure of the US as key pillar of democarcy on the alt-right, no one else.
It really is dying. The stats don't lie
EIU’s 2024 Democracy Index: trend of global democratic decline and strengthening authoritarianism continues through 2024
Not much of a surprise. Full democracies has never been as numerous as people in the West think, and several places are backsliding. Any going in the other direction need to be celebrated.
I believe, long term, that democracy is dead
Well, we need to change that - pronto - because one thing linked to the death of democracy is a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.
Extra-judicial killings and violence is normal. And that could include you.
A lot of people like the idea of a strong man leader, a leviathan who who won't be constrained by the slowness of democratic systems and will do exactly what they want.
The problem is that one is equally likely to get a strong man leader who shares none of your views and values and who hates people like you: so @Leon ends up with a Jeremy Corbyn strongman, not a Marine Le Pen one.
And, then, of course: how do you get rid of them? The messiness of democracy suddenly looks a lot less unattractive.
What I think we need, though, is to tweak our democratic system so that politicians get the message they're making a mistake quicker. The Chagos deal, for example, is liked by (as far as I can tell) Starmer and... umm... Starmer's mum.
How do we introduce feedback systems around - say EU membership, or Chagos, or shooting up immigration, so that politicians can make smaller decisions quicker (incrementalism) rather than making massive changes (often over-corrections) every four years.
54% say "don't know", and the ludicrous costs of the "deal" were not mentioned, let alone the spurious connection to far away Mauritius
Well, that’s democracy for you. You can think other people wrong, because they’re not considering the full facts of the situation or they have been misled. You can try to persuade people. But you also have to acknowledge that, for whatever reason, other people may settle on a different view to you. Maybe after public debate, the demos will swing around to your point of view, and maybe they won’t.
My point is not to defend or argue against the Chagos deal. It’s to note that rcs1000’s view that no-one likes the Chagos deal, and to use that as an example of democracy failing, is in error. Lots of people, rightly or wrongly, like the deal. I don’t disagree with rcs1000’s broader point, but for democracy to be seen to be working, we need mechanisms by which people can express their views and we need to get out of our own media bubbles.
Okay, my point is the vacuity of this kind of polling
Don’t back down Geoff, I think you were spot on first time - over 54% don’t know suggests an awful lot of people don’t feel they truly understand it, or feel they do understand it enough to not give a damn.
It is odd though, considering there has been a lot of frothy hatred of Chagos deal in the dead tree media, and absolutely no one on PB (I’m aware of) defending it, that polling keeps throwing up polls of support for Chagos Deal, and over half merely shrugging not at all worked up. From this same poll “politics” section, Conservatives are against, but only by 37% to 21% with 42% don’t know.
Before I started looking into it, I would have answered agains the deal, believing I knew enough about it to think it bad for national security and bizarre we are willing to unnecessarily pay so much good money for no good reason. Now I understand Chagos Deal inside out, my answer would still be strongly opposed to it going ahead, though for very different reasoning - my own preferred position (impossible though it is due to our ties to US defence systems) is now identical to the view Lord Dannatt expressed: just gift ownership to the US and India and walk away never to get involved again.
Gut reaction should be oppose because it don’t make any sense, going from a gut reaction to knowing what it’s really about, should also be strongly oppose, so I don’t understand why polls pick up so much support and so much indifference.
eh? "back down"? But your own take might have had much to be said for it except that we now realise that the USA (and India for that matter) may not be our steadfast allies
"We run the world. This is America's world. It’s our proxy. It will end when we say it's over," — Fox News host Jesse Watters on Ukraine and President Zelensky. https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1895762952516735196
They really are quite insane.
It was kind of america's world. Part of keeping it that way was not saying it so bluntly, and not undermining all their friendly relationships through petty, short term exertions of power to please a decrepit old man and his vindictive sidekick.
It will be a world with some other major powers, a lot faster than was already the case, thanks to self defeating actions.
@lisamurkowski This week started with administration officials refusing to acknowledge that Russia started the war in Ukraine. It ends with a tense, shocking conversation in the Oval Office and whispers from the White House that they may try to end all U.S. support for Ukraine. I know foreign policy is not for the faint of heart, but right now, I am sick to my stomach as the administration appears to be walking away from our allies and embracing Putin, a threat to democracy and U.S. values around the world.
Mostly falls how you would expect: Salvini as Trumpist, Tajani the foreign minister and Forza leader with a strong pro-Ukraine and pro-Europe line and a proper row going on between those two coalition partners.
PD's centre-left opposition lining with Forza and noting Meloni as missing in action, whilst Conte in 5-star antipathetic to Trump but pushing the kind of peace line that echoes him.
Meloni is strangely quiet, she has often managed to be centre stage in Europe this last few years, but is not in the main London meeting tomorrow, and will be speaking with Starmer in the sidelines. Reportedly, her main line seems to be to get Trump in the room at a summit with European leaders and air it fully. Don't think Europe is on that page today. Her Atlanticism has been very US focussed and she gets on very well (like a giggly schoolgirl, tbh) with Musk, so it is a political bind to her the US going this path.
Mostly falls how you would expect: Salvini as Trumpist, Tajani the foreign minister and Forza leader with a strong pro-Ukraine and pro-Europe line and a proper row going on between those two coalition partners.
PD's centre-left opposition lining with Forza and noting Meloni as missing in action, whilst Conte in 5-star antipathetic to Trump but pushing the kind of peace line that echoes him.
Meloni is strangely quiet, she has often managed to be centre stage in Europe this last few years, but is not in the main London meeting tomorrow, and will be speaking with Starmer in the sidelines. Reportedly, her main line seems to be to get Trump in the room at a summit with European leaders and air it fully. Don't think Europe is on that page today. Her Atlanticism has been very US focussed and she gets on very well (like a giggly schoolgirl, tbh) with Musk, so it is a political bind to her the US going this path.
I believe she has been quite anti-Putin in the past, which will introduce tensions with any Trump discussions.
@lisamurkowski This week started with administration officials refusing to acknowledge that Russia started the war in Ukraine. It ends with a tense, shocking conversation in the Oval Office and whispers from the White House that they may try to end all U.S. support for Ukraine. I know foreign policy is not for the faint of heart, but right now, I am sick to my stomach as the administration appears to be walking away from our allies and embracing Putin, a threat to democracy and U.S. values around the world.
Jeez. Finally. Has one of them found they have a backbone.
My take on Spatgate is that I don’t think there was a deliberate plan by anyone to sabotage the meeting. What happened was the result of thin skinned egotists losing it.
After about 30 mins the meeting which has been largely cordial is wrapping up. Vance makes a point targeted against Biden. Says Biden’s chest thumping didn’t stop Putin invading Ukraine. Vance says Trump has the answers - diplomacy (= dialogue) and dealing with Putin.
Z addresses Vance somewhat confrontationally. Makes the point that dealing with Putin doesn’t work. A deal was struck with Putin in 2022 and Putin went back on the deal. Z concludes to V “JD what kind of diplomacy you are speaking about? What do you mean?”
Vance is riled. He feels challenged by Z who is effectively saying Vance is wrong. Diplomacy doesn’t work with Putin.
Vance loses his cool. He is angry that Z has publicly disagreed with his one significant contribution to the meeting, challenging him in front of the whole world. He finds it disrespectful and petulantly reacts saying Zelensky is ungrateful. He raises his voice, points his finger, accuses Z of criticising America, says Ukraine is struggling in its war effort and calls Z disrespectful.
Z does not accept Vance’s portrayal of Ukraine struggling. Warns America that Putin could come for them next and that they will feel the influence (threat) of Russia
Trump - triggered initially by Vance saying Z is disrespecting America is further triggered by Z telling America what it feels and it all kicks off.
Vance pours oil onto the fire challenging Z by asking him if he has even thanked America for its help. Takes him to task for “campaigning for the Democrats in Pennsylvania”
It then further escalates.
Conclusion. Z was perhaps unwise to publicly challenge Vance’s “diplomacy thesis”. Vance felt belittled by this and reacted calling Z disrespectful and ungrateful. Trump was triggered by Vance and further triggered by Z forecasting America would in the future also fell threatened by Russia. Trump and Vance both lose it.
Both spacehopper and teh hillbilly have fragile egos. Both absolute arses.
@lisamurkowski This week started with administration officials refusing to acknowledge that Russia started the war in Ukraine. It ends with a tense, shocking conversation in the Oval Office and whispers from the White House that they may try to end all U.S. support for Ukraine. I know foreign policy is not for the faint of heart, but right now, I am sick to my stomach as the administration appears to be walking away from our allies and embracing Putin, a threat to democracy and U.S. values around the world.
Jeez. Finally. Has one of them found they have a backbone.
Via @BMGResearch, 25-26 Feb. Changes w/ 28-29 Jan.
Before 28th February verbal assault on decency by Trump and his bullies
Let's see how this pans out over the next few weeks
Voting Reform is voting for Farage and Trump
The only thing is, I'm not sure most of the people that have switched from CON and LAB to REF will necessarily care about Ukraine and in some cases might even support Russia.
However, these developments much limit Reforms potential for further growth, at least in the short term?
This polling has occurred before Oval-office gate, but well after mineral gate, when we were told that Reform's polling would already be down.
The prime minister has spoken to President Zelenskyy, and President Trump and President Macron this evening, with the intent of bridging the rift between Zelenskyy and Trump
Credit where it is due
Right, so Starmer cuddles up to Trump (quite literally), and is now trying to build bridges between him and Zelensky, and you solemnly pat him on the back, but because Farage doesn't spit bile at Trump, he should go and live in Moscow.
"We run the world. This is America's world. It’s our proxy. It will end when we say it's over," — Fox News host Jesse Watters on Ukraine and President Zelensky. https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1895762952516735196
They really are quite insane.
It may not seem like it now, but there are some worse people than Trump in the GOP. He is scary - but at the end of the day he is an self-centred, self-preserving idiot. There are some far more sinister characters we should really hope don’t follow on from him.
Can't see the difference now between these people on Fox News and those who are on nightly TV news shows in Moscow saying 'Putin will nuke the whole of Berlin tomorrow' if x or y does not happen.
Via @BMGResearch, 25-26 Feb. Changes w/ 28-29 Jan.
Before 28th February verbal assault on decency by Trump and his bullies
Let's see how this pans out over the next few weeks
Voting Reform is voting for Farage and Trump
The only thing is, I'm not sure most of the people that have switched from CON and LAB to REF will necessarily care about Ukraine and in some cases might even support Russia.
However, these developments much limit Reforms potential for further growth, at least in the short term?
This polling has occurred before Oval-office gate, but well after mineral gate, when we were told that Reform's polling would already be down.
The prime minister has spoken to President Zelenskyy, and President Trump and President Macron this evening, with the intent of bridging the rift between Zelenskyy and Trump
Credit where it is due
Right, so Starmer cuddles up to Trump (quite literally), and is now trying to build bridges between him and Zelensky, and you solemnly pat him on the back, but because Farage doesn't spit bile at Trump, he should go and live in Moscow.
Do you not see a slight lack of logic here?
No
Starmer is doing what any UK PM should do in these extreme circumstances and attempting to calm waters
Farage is a Trump and Putin supporter and anyone voting Reform is endorsing the bullies in the White House
The prime minister has spoken to President Zelenskyy, and President Trump and President Macron this evening, with the intent of bridging the rift between Zelenskyy and Trump
Credit where it is due
I have to mea culpa on this. I was very pissed off by what looked like a typical fawning performance by a PM in Washington on Thursday, and then a worrying silence yesterday after the ambush. But it does seem Starmer and his advisers knew what they were doing.
Let’s see if it bears fruit. It’s encouraging that Britain and France are working in synch this weekend.
It's easy to get caught up in the emotion of it all after witnessing what basically seemed like two bullies punching the guy in a wheelchair while handing the keys to his house to the person who put him in it. No shame in it at all.
The time has come to start considering a broad coalition of willing for just peace in Ukraine. “Peace” on terms of the aggressor is called a capitulation and would only encourage all current and future aggressors. Free world must stand up to the evil. https://x.com/prezidentpavel/status/1895934812646752643
is there some good reason why these statements are still put on out on a platform owned by a man who is one of the biggest threats to European democracy?
"He's a font of misplaced rage. Name your cliché; mother held him too much or not enough, last picked at kickball, late night sneaky uncle, whatever. Now he's so angry moments of levity actually cause him pain; gives him headaches. Happiness, for that gentleman, hurts."
Starmer seems to be trying to find a way for Trump to climb down without being utterly humiliated, as he would be if the Europeans, including the UK, give Ukraine sufficient resources to carry on the war until Russia is exhausted (which I believe to be imminent). If the Europeans do that Trump loses the leverage that he has attempted to deploy so brutally yesterday but let's not pretend that it would be easy for Europe given their own dependency on US logistical capacity.
Of course, for diplomatic reasons, everyone will need to pretend that this is not a climb down for the US and Trump will have to be allowed to save some face somehow. But if Starmer achieves this he will have more than made up for the months of inaction and ineptitude since the election, he will show himself to be a true leader in difficult times.
Do you think a single sane person in India, China, the US, Singapore, Haiti, France, Denmark or anywhere else thinks that their Head of Government's attitude to Ukraine is more important than any and all domestic policy considerations?
It's really important his approval ratings plummet at home.
Negative 1.5% GDP in the first quarter predicted by Atlanta Fed. That would be quite remarkable. And i suspect would lead to quite a few statisticians needing new jobs.
Via @BMGResearch, 25-26 Feb. Changes w/ 28-29 Jan.
Before 28th February verbal assault on decency by Trump and his bullies
Let's see how this pans out over the next few weeks
Voting Reform is voting for Farage and Trump
The only thing is, I'm not sure most of the people that have switched from CON and LAB to REF will necessarily care about Ukraine and in some cases might even support Russia.
However, these developments much limit Reforms potential for further growth, at least in the short term?
This polling has occurred before Oval-office gate, but well after mineral gate, when we were told that Reform's polling would already be down.
The prime minister has spoken to President Zelenskyy, and President Trump and President Macron this evening, with the intent of bridging the rift between Zelenskyy and Trump
Credit where it is due
Right, so Starmer cuddles up to Trump (quite literally), and is now trying to build bridges between him and Zelensky, and you solemnly pat him on the back, but because Farage doesn't spit bile at Trump, he should go and live in Moscow.
Do you not see a slight lack of logic here?
No
Starmer is doing what any UK PM should do in these extreme circumstances and attempting to calm waters
Farage is a Trump and Putin supporter and anyone voting Reform is endorsing the bullies in the White House
Imagine Farage dressing down a foreign leader like that at a summit.
"We run the world. This is America's world. It’s our proxy. It will end when we say it's over," — Fox News host Jesse Watters on Ukraine and President Zelensky. https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1895762952516735196
They really are quite insane.
It may not seem like it now, but there are some worse people than Trump in the GOP. He is scary - but at the end of the day he is an self-centred, self-preserving idiot. There are some far more sinister characters we should really hope don’t follow on from him.
Can't see the difference now between these people on Fox News and those who are on nightly TV news shows in Moscow saying 'Putin will nuke the whole of Berlin tomorrow' if x or y does not happen.
Or those talking heads on Israeli tv advocating hosing out Palestinians from Gaza.
"We run the world. This is America's world. It’s our proxy. It will end when we say it's over," — Fox News host Jesse Watters on Ukraine and President Zelensky. https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1895762952516735196
They really are quite insane.
It may not seem like it now, but there are some worse people than Trump in the GOP. He is scary - but at the end of the day he is an self-centred, self-preserving idiot. There are some far more sinister characters we should really hope don’t follow on from him.
Can't see the difference now between these people on Fox News and those who are on nightly TV news shows in Moscow saying 'Putin will nuke the whole of Berlin tomorrow' if x or y does not happen.
Yes, the MAGA people come over like brainwashed automatons. There was one on Newsnight yesterday. Black is white, she kept saying, with a bright smile.
BREAKING: CNN is covering the hundreds of protesters who lined the roads in Vermont to protest JD Vance’s visit. One person held a sign that read, “Go ski in Russia, traitor.”
The fallout from yesterday’s meeting is massive. Americans are pissed off.
Starmer seems to be trying to find a way for Trump to climb down without being utterly humiliated, as he would be if the Europeans, including the UK, give Ukraine sufficient resources to carry on the war until Russia is exhausted (which I believe to be imminent). If the Europeans do that Trump loses the leverage that he has attempted to deploy so brutally yesterday but let's not pretend that it would be easy for Europe given their own dependency on US logistical capacity.
Of course, for diplomatic reasons, everyone will need to pretend that this is not a climb down for the US and Trump will have to be allowed to save some face somehow. But if Starmer achieves this he will have more than made up for the months of inaction and ineptitude since the election, he will show himself to be a true leader in difficult times.
Do you think a single sane person in India, China, the US, Singapore, Haiti, France, Denmark or anywhere else thinks that their Head of Government's attitude to Ukraine is more important than any and all domestic policy considerations?
It's an utterly bonkers take.
What? It's the most important issue right now. And I would take a PM like Starmer who is rubbish at everything donestically but right about Ukraine over a hypothetical one who was right about everything donestically but wrong about Ukraine.
Comments
He demeans our country and should go and live in New York or Moscow
Let's see how this pans out over the next few weeks
Voting Reform is voting for Farage and Trump
Trump will be glad you donated - he's in favour of every other country's money being used but the US's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGq7VcaHoqo
And incredible as it may seem, the referee didn't even give a foul.
Rather Trump is self-obsessed and self-pitying and thinks he has a score to settle with a lot of people.
Including those European countries who laughed at his advice and then cheered his defeat.
However, these developments must limit Reforms potential for further growth, at least in the short term?
https://x.com/AlexandruC4/status/1895880706993348775
How disrespectful..
And also incredible, the referee didn't even give a foul today either. It was VAR that said go to the monitor and then it became a red card, wasn't even a foul without VAR.
Labour wins the next election on current trends IMHO. This is peak Reform.
https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1895762952516735196
This suggests that the expenditure won’t effect the UK finances , this also suggests the EU could get round the legal issues surrounding those assets .
Could we see some further very large loans agreed by the EU. So in effect they haven’t confiscated those assets but the EU have said that they won’t be returned until Russia makes reparations.
You are allowed to use seized sovereign funds for reparations.
Either I’m missing something but this development tonight seems like a big deal .
A lot of Millwall's support lives in Kent and Essex anyway.
Low information low engagement voters who are only vaguely interested in politics and world affairs. The horrors of their own lives count for more and you can’t just dismiss that because of your sensibilities on this issue.
You’re right of course - voting Farage is voting for Trump and this for Putin. My point is that when you have nothing you don’t care. And follow news sources who openly say the opposite about Farage and Trump…
Labour would get just 178 seats, even fewer than Corbyn in 2019 or Foot in 1983
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html
Otherwise inexplicable.
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth last week ordered U.S. Cyber Command to stand down from all planning against Russia, including offensive digital actions.
https://x.com/martinmatishak/status/1895565512459108830
If Trump is some Russian asset then he produced very little for them in his first term.
So why the change now ? It can be easily explained by his desire for personal revenge against people he thinks have personally wronged him.
Agree abiut the chanting.
The time has come to start considering a broad coalition of willing for just peace in Ukraine. “Peace” on terms of the aggressor is called a capitulation and would only encourage all current and future aggressors. Free world must stand up to the evil.
https://x.com/prezidentpavel/status/1895934812646752643
When did this last happen? Stalin after operation Barbarossa?
My point is not to defend or argue against the Chagos deal. It’s to note that rcs1000’s view that no-one likes the Chagos deal, and to use that as an example of democracy failing, is in error. Lots of people, rightly or wrongly, like the deal. I don’t disagree with rcs1000’s broader point, but for democracy to be seen to be working, we need mechanisms by which people can express their views and we need to get out of our own media bubbles.
Unlike that snake Farage.
Is there another model that converts shares to seats?
The prime minister has spoken to President Zelenskyy, and President Trump and President Macron this evening, with the intent of bridging the rift between Zelenskyy and Trump
After yesterday's events in the White House, Haltbakk Bunkers, one of Norway's largest marine fuel companies, appears to have announced that it will no longer refuel American Navy vessels.
Haltbakk has called on other European companies to refuse service to American forces.
https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1895896267269808193
“Zelensky doesn’t need Trump’s help to give Putin four regions, downsize the army, and abandon NATO aspirations. If he wanted to surrender to Putin, he would have gone to Moscow, not Washington.”
Well said, btw.
https://x.com/SlawomirDebski/status/1895560843359887809
I guess that it shouldn’t be a surprise as “advanced” suggests progression whereas “Vanced” must mean “backwards”.
Let’s see if it bears fruit. It’s encouraging that Britain and France are working in synch this weekend.
https://www.ewangoodjohn.com/uk
and
https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/swingometer/uk-parliament?form=MG0AV3
It's worth comparing them rather than solely relying on Electoral Calculus.
It's all a bit of game anyway at this stage.
The uncharitable view has the original source of this garbage being 2000 miles east of here rather than 3000 miles west, and the initial spreaders knowing this full well, and even being paid to do the Russians' dirty work for them.
We should investigate these people as thoroughly as we used to Russian agents during the Cold War. They are entitled to their opinions, however demented, but they can't be allowed undermine the security of the west by spreading Russian filth.
Of course, for diplomatic reasons, everyone will need to pretend that this is not a climb down for the US and Trump will have to be allowed to save some face somehow. But if Starmer achieves this he will have more than made up for the months of inaction and ineptitude since the election, he will show himself to be a true leader in difficult times.
p.s. meanwhile RCS100 has suggested regular by-elections ... that may help ... or perhaps issues-based referenda ... but let's not get carried away
The FA decided that War Criminals are Fit & Proper to be club owners.
Why would you expect such an organisation to posses a moral compass?
How JD Vance emerged as the chief saboteur of the transatlantic alliance
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/28/jd-vance-volodymyr-zelenskyy
He has fired so many DOJ lawyers they don't have enough to defend all the cases that have been launched against them
And Macron has floated the idea of a European nuclear shield
I am not certain Donny boy can keep the show on the road for 4 years...
It is odd though, considering there has been a lot of frothy hatred of Chagos deal in the dead tree media, and absolutely no one on PB (I’m aware of) defending it, that polling keeps throwing up polls of support for Chagos Deal, and over half merely shrugging not at all worked up. From this same poll “politics” section, Conservatives are against, but only by 37% to 21% with 42% don’t know.
Before I started looking into it, I would have answered agains the deal, believing I knew enough about it to think it bad for national security and bizarre we are willing to unnecessarily pay so much good money for no good reason. Now I understand Chagos Deal inside out, my answer would still be strongly opposed to it going ahead, though for very different reasoning - my own preferred position (impossible though it is due to our ties to US defence systems) is now identical to the view Lord Dannatt expressed: just gift ownership to the US and India and walk away never to get involved again.
Gut reaction should be oppose because it don’t make any sense, going from a gut reaction to knowing what it’s really about, should also be strongly oppose, so I don’t understand why polls pick up so much support and so much indifference.
PKK declares ceasefire with Turkey after more than 40 years of conflict
Kurdish militant group responds to call from its jailed leader, Abdullah Öcalan, to lay down arms
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/01/pkk-declares-ceasefire-with-turkey-after-40-years-kurdish
It will be a world with some other major powers, a lot faster than was already the case, thanks to self defeating actions.
@lisamurkowski
This week started with administration officials refusing to acknowledge that Russia started the war in Ukraine. It ends with a tense, shocking conversation in the Oval Office and whispers from the White House that they may try to end all U.S. support for Ukraine. I know foreign policy is not for the faint of heart, but right now, I am sick to my stomach as the administration appears to be walking away from our allies and embracing Putin, a threat to democracy and U.S. values around the world.
Trump economic approval ratings sag as inflation fears grow
https://thehill.com/business/5167446-trump-economic-confidence-slipping/
Mostly falls how you would expect: Salvini as Trumpist, Tajani the foreign minister and Forza leader with a strong pro-Ukraine and pro-Europe line and a proper row going on between those two coalition partners.
PD's centre-left opposition lining with Forza and noting Meloni as missing in action, whilst Conte in 5-star antipathetic to Trump but pushing the kind of peace line that echoes him.
Meloni is strangely quiet, she has often managed to be centre stage in Europe this last few years, but is not in the main London meeting tomorrow, and will be speaking with Starmer in the sidelines. Reportedly, her main line seems to be to get Trump in the room at a summit with European leaders and air it fully. Don't think Europe is on that page today. Her Atlanticism has been very US focussed and she gets on very well (like a giggly schoolgirl, tbh) with Musk, so it is a political bind to her the US going this path.
How late, how late it was.
Do you not see a slight lack of logic here?
Starmer is doing what any UK PM should do in these extreme circumstances and attempting to calm waters
Farage is a Trump and Putin supporter and anyone voting Reform is endorsing the bullies in the White House
It's an utterly bonkers take.
It isn't hard to do.
Whether or not it's true.
And Wigan 24-0 up at halftime.
Priceless.
BREAKING: CNN is covering the hundreds of protesters who lined the roads in Vermont to protest JD Vance’s visit. One person held a sign that read, “Go ski in Russia, traitor.”
The fallout from yesterday’s meeting is massive. Americans are pissed off.
https://x.com/MAGALieTracker/status/1895959896396611616