Nothing particularly controversial in there, says that there needs to be an agreement acceptable to all sides in the conflict, and dangling a carrot of a restoration of dimplomatic and economic opportunities for US/Russia relations dependent on the end of the war.
Allegedly Lavrov’s first talking point was about how wonderful it would be for Trump to build an hotel in Sochi. LOL. More concerningly, he also allegedly made no concessions at all towards actually ending the war.
Let’s see what Gen. Kellogg has to say now, as he meets with a Ukranian delegation. Presumably Rubio and Kellogg will then meet with Trump and Vance to try and work out if there’s agreement on anything. I don’t think there will much agreement at this stage.
Mr Mandleson now has an important job to do, to make sure that Rubio and his team understand the British (and majority European) view of what an end to the conflict looks like.
Your support for Trump, Musk and the GOP really has blinded you to reality, hasn't it?
Trump is the voice that matters; and his comment overnight are an abandonment of Ukraine. Worse; a betrayal. As when Trump parrots Putin's lies; the GOP base and MAGA nutcases will hear those lies and believe them, making it harder for them to support Ukraine even if they wanted.
But you refuse to see that, and instead invent increasingly ludicrous scenarios. You are the character in the middle of the fire saying "Everything's fine!"
I have asked you before what you see which makes you so positive about the US regime's actions wrt Ukraine. It's clear you don't see anything, and have just assembled a massive pile of hopium.
Cracking speech, though who were the ‘founders’ of the British constitution ?
Blackwood Dicey Coke Burke De Montfort
Apologies to others I have forgotten
"Founders" ? I don't think that really fits. Our constitution is an accretion over many centuries; there's no one founding document, or even moment within the lifetime of some group of "founders".
"Others I might have forgotten" pretty well says it all.
Trump says Zelensky ‘should have never started’ war with Russia
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5151545-trump-ukraine-zelensky-war-russia/ ..“I think I have the power to end this war. And I think it’s going very well,” Trump told reporters at Mar-a-Lago on the heels of the meeting between U.S. and Russian officials. “But today I heard, ‘Oh, well we weren’t invited.’ Well, you’ve been there for three years,” Trump continued. “You should’ve ended it in three years. You should have never started it. You could have made a deal. I could have made a deal for Ukraine that would have given them almost all of the land, and no people would have been killed, and no city would have been demolished and not one dome would have been knocked down. But they chose not to do it that way.” Trump went on to rail against former President Biden as “so pathetic” before again criticizing Zelensky. “Look, you have leadership — and I like him personally. He’s fine. But I don’t care about personally. I care about getting the job done. You have leadership now that’s allowed a war to go on that should have never even happened, even without the United States.”..
Trump says Zelensky ‘should have never started’ war with Russia
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5151545-trump-ukraine-zelensky-war-russia/ ..“I think I have the power to end this war. And I think it’s going very well,” Trump told reporters at Mar-a-Lago on the heels of the meeting between U.S. and Russian officials. “But today I heard, ‘Oh, well we weren’t invited.’ Well, you’ve been there for three years,” Trump continued. “You should’ve ended it in three years. You should have never started it. You could have made a deal. I could have made a deal for Ukraine that would have given them almost all of the land, and no people would have been killed, and no city would have been demolished and not one dome would have been knocked down. But they chose not to do it that way.” Trump went on to rail against former President Biden as “so pathetic” before again criticizing Zelensky. “Look, you have leadership — and I like him personally. He’s fine. But I don’t care about personally. I care about getting the job done. You have leadership now that’s allowed a war to go on that should have never even happened, even without the United States.”..
Nothing particularly controversial in there, says that there needs to be an agreement acceptable to all sides in the conflict, and dangling a carrot of a restoration of dimplomatic and economic opportunities for US/Russia relations dependent on the end of the war.
Allegedly Lavrov’s first talking point was about how wonderful it would be for Trump to build an hotel in Sochi. LOL. More concerningly, he also allegedly made no concessions at all towards actually ending the war.
Let’s see what Gen. Kellogg has to say now, as he meets with a Ukranian delegation. Presumably Rubio and Kellogg will then meet with Trump and Vance to try and work out if there’s agreement on anything. I don’t think there will much agreement at this stage.
Mr Mandleson now has an important job to do, to make sure that Rubio and his team understand the British (and majority European) view of what an end to the conflict looks like.
Neither Rubio nor Kellogg's statements are really relevant to what's happening. And trying to affect that by lobbying Rubio is very likely a waste of time. Their job is to sell whatever Trump decides to us.8 The people currently in the room with the Russians that probably count are those closer to Trump - Mike Waltz and Steve Witkoff.
Trump reportedly plans to meet with Putin within a month. I seriously doubt that either Rubio or Kellogg will have a huge amount of input into that discussion.
Listen to what Trump himself is saying.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/18/trump-blames-zelenskyy-ukraine-war-020517 ..“Today I heard, ‘Oh, well, we weren’t invited,’” Trump said when asked about criticism from Ukraine, seeming to direct his response to Zelenskyy. “Well, you’ve been there for three years. You should have ended it — three years. You should have never been there. You should have never started it. You should have made a deal.”
The comment — ignoring that it was Russia that invaded Ukraine without provocation three years ago this month — was Trump’s harshest condemnation to date of the Ukrainian side. It came as Zelenskyy and leaders across Europe are scrambling to respond to growing indications that Kyiv’s most critical ally for the last three years appears to be more interested in normalizing relations with Russia than in making sure Ukraine endures and that Russian President Vladimir Putin faces stronger deterrence after starting the first land war on European soil since 1945.
Trump also confirmed his interest in forcing elections in Ukraine as part of any diplomatic resolution to the war...
...Trump also pushed back on a question stating that forcing Zelenskyy to stand for reelection was a Russian priority.
“That’s not a Russia thing,” Trump said. “That’s something coming from me and a lot of other countries also.”..
Sandpit is just preparing to blame Mandelson for Trump giving Putin everything he wants. It's TDS
Trump seems to think it's time for elections in Ukraine.
Methinks Zelensky is not long for this world now the US has withdrawn their support for him.
What Trump hasn’t spotted, is that none of Zelensky’s likely successors take a softer line on Russia. Not that the polling really suggests he’d lose anyway.
Unless any election is swung by 40 trillion postal votes from Moscow East.
The point is to prevent his being involved in any talks, by making an election a precondition. It’s unlikely Ukraine will bow to that demand, but you can see how either Putin, or Trump, or both might think they could influence such a poll.
An election won't be a precondition. It may be a condition - or Zelensky could be removed by other means first. After all, he has lost the war. Trump could say either you resign now or else I'm going to say the agreement should be put to a plebiscite.
Anecdata: I met a Ukrainian woman last week who is from Kharkov. "That's to the north and quite near the east?" I said. "Nooo...", she replied, "It's in the west".
You'd never get an IRA person referring to Donegal as in the south.
Donald Trump is demanding Volodymyr Zelensky hold elections that could oust him from office as the price of peace.
Well I’m sure there will be elections there once there’s peace, and surely the whole point of elections is that they could oust the leaders from office?
IIRC there were supposed to be elections last year but they were postponed under a war law, because you can’t organise an election when half your country is occupied by invaders and millions of refugees have fled.
That's not what's going on. The line from both Russia and Trump U.S. that they want ejections as a precondition for alllwing Ukraine to even negotiate.
Zelenskyy has said for some time he'll have an election as soon as there's peace. That's not what they're demanding.
There’s definitely one person they want ejected, preferably from a high window.
They did a piece a few weeks ago about how the public in Dearborn in the US feel about conflict and the 3 main people they picked as ordinary members of the community were all well known activists.
The BBC documentary is worse, all available on social media....
A co-producer was a Palestinian activist - and one of the cameramen the BBC had hired in Gaza had saluted Oct 7.
Here is a post from Abdullah's father, praising Hamas terrorists who murdered four Israelis in June 2023.
the father of our BBC narrator - posted a family mourning message for a founder of the Hamas terrorist group.
To be fair to the BBC I think it’s laziness / incompetence rather than anything more malign
They are under pressure to find interesting copy quickly. So they go to their local contacts (who are usually politically active) who recommend some individuals.
The BBC should do a background check but often they just take their contact’s word for it that these are “ordinary” and Palestinians
Hopefully the next German chancellor will have a different view on troops in Ukraine.
Didn’t work out too well for the last German chancellor with those views.
I know you mean it as humour, but this is too important
Trump and Vance have broken the Western Alliance that has kept the peace (ish) in the world since the end of the Second World War.
He has betrayed his country’s friends and allies.
And for what benefit?
As stands, Trump will have broken the Western alliance, will probably push a number of natural US allies into the Chinese orbit, and will screw the US (and most Western economies over) via the introduction of tariffs.
Nothing particularly controversial in there, says that there needs to be an agreement acceptable to all sides in the conflict, and dangling a carrot of a restoration of dimplomatic and economic opportunities for US/Russia relations dependent on the end of the war.
Allegedly Lavrov’s first talking point was about how wonderful it would be for Trump to build an hotel in Sochi. LOL. More concerningly, he also allegedly made no concessions at all towards actually ending the war.
Let’s see what Gen. Kellogg has to say now, as he meets with a Ukranian delegation. Presumably Rubio and Kellogg will then meet with Trump and Vance to try and work out if there’s agreement on anything. I don’t think there will much agreement at this stage.
Mr Mandleson now has an important job to do, to make sure that Rubio and his team understand the British (and majority European) view of what an end to the conflict looks like.
Vance already understands. He just doesn’t care. There is more money to be made from chaos.
Nothing particularly controversial in there, says that there needs to be an agreement acceptable to all sides in the conflict, and dangling a carrot of a restoration of dimplomatic and economic opportunities for US/Russia relations dependent on the end of the war.
Allegedly Lavrov’s first talking point was about how wonderful it would be for Trump to build an hotel in Sochi. LOL. More concerningly, he also allegedly made no concessions at all towards actually ending the war.
Let’s see what Gen. Kellogg has to say now, as he meets with a Ukranian delegation. Presumably Rubio and Kellogg will then meet with Trump and Vance to try and work out if there’s agreement on anything. I don’t think there will much agreement at this stage.
Mr Mandleson now has an important job to do, to make sure that Rubio and his team understand the British (and majority European) view of what an end to the conflict looks like.
Neither Rubio nor Kellogg's statements are really relevant to what's happening. And trying to affect that by lobbying Rubio is very likely a waste of time. Their job is to sell whatever Trump decides to us.8 The people currently in the room with the Russians that probably count are those closer to Trump - Mike Waltz and Steve Witkoff.
Trump reportedly plans to meet with Putin within a month. I seriously doubt that either Rubio or Kellogg will have a huge amount of input into that discussion.
Listen to what Trump himself is saying.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/18/trump-blames-zelenskyy-ukraine-war-020517 ..“Today I heard, ‘Oh, well, we weren’t invited,’” Trump said when asked about criticism from Ukraine, seeming to direct his response to Zelenskyy. “Well, you’ve been there for three years. You should have ended it — three years. You should have never been there. You should have never started it. You should have made a deal.”
The comment — ignoring that it was Russia that invaded Ukraine without provocation three years ago this month — was Trump’s harshest condemnation to date of the Ukrainian side. It came as Zelenskyy and leaders across Europe are scrambling to respond to growing indications that Kyiv’s most critical ally for the last three years appears to be more interested in normalizing relations with Russia than in making sure Ukraine endures and that Russian President Vladimir Putin faces stronger deterrence after starting the first land war on European soil since 1945.
Trump also confirmed his interest in forcing elections in Ukraine as part of any diplomatic resolution to the war...
...Trump also pushed back on a question stating that forcing Zelenskyy to stand for reelection was a Russian priority.
“That’s not a Russia thing,” Trump said. “That’s something coming from me and a lot of other countries also.”..
Sandpit is just preparing to blame Mandelson for Trump giving Putin everything he wants. It's TDS The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
Hopefully the next German chancellor will have a different view on troops in Ukraine.
Didn’t work out too well for the last German chancellor with those views.
I know you mean it as humour, but this is too important
Trump and Vance have broken the Western Alliance that has kept the peace (ish) in the world since the end of the Second World War.
He has betrayed his country’s friends and allies.
For Trump, it's largely transactional, I think.
NATO costs the US money, and we don't pay enough. And he thinks he can make money from a deal with Russia, while cutting off the cost of aid to Ukraine.
Plus his fondness for autocrats, as he thinks he should exercise the same kind of unchecked power.
Hopefully the next German chancellor will have a different view on troops in Ukraine.
Didn’t work out too well for the last German chancellor with those views.
I know you mean it as humour, but this is too important
Trump and Vance have broken the Western Alliance that has kept the peace (ish) in the world since the end of the Second World War.
He has betrayed his country’s friends and allies.
And for what benefit?
As stands, Trump will have broken the Western alliance, will probably push a number of natural US allies into the Chinese orbit, and will screw the US (and most Western economies over) via the introduction of tariffs.
I don't think he sees the potential costs, and won't believe them until they've happened. If even then.
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
"Trump Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who actually believe Trump. If you believe him, you are deranged.
In the same way "Musk Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who believe and/or worship Musk.
You suffer from both.
Do not go blaming Europe for this. Or Mandelson. The blame for this betrayal goes to those who support Trump and the GOP. It was obvious something like this was going to happen after the GOP's aid delay last year.
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
I'm also commenting on things as I see it.
I don't think you appreciate the extent to which he's written off Ukraine. I also think you're overestimating the influence of Rubio and Kellogg.
Nothing particularly controversial in there, says that there needs to be an agreement acceptable to all sides in the conflict, and dangling a carrot of a restoration of dimplomatic and economic opportunities for US/Russia relations dependent on the end of the war.
Allegedly Lavrov’s first talking point was about how wonderful it would be for Trump to build an hotel in Sochi. LOL. More concerningly, he also allegedly made no concessions at all towards actually ending the war.
Let’s see what Gen. Kellogg has to say now, as he meets with a Ukranian delegation. Presumably Rubio and Kellogg will then meet with Trump and Vance to try and work out if there’s agreement on anything. I don’t think there will much agreement at this stage.
Mr Mandleson now has an important job to do, to make sure that Rubio and his team understand the British (and majority European) view of what an end to the conflict looks like.
Neither Rubio nor Kellogg's statements are really relevant to what's happening. And trying to affect that by lobbying Rubio is very likely a waste of time. Their job is to sell whatever Trump decides to us.8 The people currently in the room with the Russians that probably count are those closer to Trump - Mike Waltz and Steve Witkoff.
Trump reportedly plans to meet with Putin within a month. I seriously doubt that either Rubio or Kellogg will have a huge amount of input into that discussion.
Listen to what Trump himself is saying.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/18/trump-blames-zelenskyy-ukraine-war-020517 ..“Today I heard, ‘Oh, well, we weren’t invited,’” Trump said when asked about criticism from Ukraine, seeming to direct his response to Zelenskyy. “Well, you’ve been there for three years. You should have ended it — three years. You should have never been there. You should have never started it. You should have made a deal.”
The comment — ignoring that it was Russia that invaded Ukraine without provocation three years ago this month — was Trump’s harshest condemnation to date of the Ukrainian side. It came as Zelenskyy and leaders across Europe are scrambling to respond to growing indications that Kyiv’s most critical ally for the last three years appears to be more interested in normalizing relations with Russia than in making sure Ukraine endures and that Russian President Vladimir Putin faces stronger deterrence after starting the first land war on European soil since 1945.
Trump also confirmed his interest in forcing elections in Ukraine as part of any diplomatic resolution to the war...
...Trump also pushed back on a question stating that forcing Zelenskyy to stand for reelection was a Russian priority.
“That’s not a Russia thing,” Trump said. “That’s something coming from me and a lot of other countries also.”..
What I struggle to understand is why people like Kellogg and Rubio, who had solid careers and good reputations, would trade it all in for this. They have no power or influence. They just have a title and a tarnished legacy.
Donald Trump is demanding Volodymyr Zelensky hold elections that could oust him from office as the price of peace.
Well I’m sure there will be elections there once there’s peace, and surely the whole point of elections is that they could oust the leaders from office?
IIRC there were supposed to be elections last year but they were postponed under a war law, because you can’t organise an election when half your country is occupied by invaders and millions of refugees have fled.
That's not what's going on. The line from both Russia and Trump U.S. that they want ejections as a precondition for alllwing Ukraine to even negotiate.
Zelenskyy has said for some time he'll have an election as soon as there's peace. That's not what they're demanding.
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
"Trump Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who actually believe Trump. If you believe him, you are deranged.
In the same way "Musk Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who believe and/or worship Musk.
You suffer from both.
Do not go blaming Europe for this. Or Mandelson. The blame for this betrayal goes to those who support Trump and the GOP. It was obvious something like this was going to happen after the GOP's aid delay last year.
Shame on you.
Oh do fuck off. Every morning you’re on here trying to make things personal. In case you hadn’t noticed, I have a shitload more at stake than most on here when it comes to Ukraine.
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
"Trump Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who actually believe Trump. If you believe him, you are deranged.
In the same way "Musk Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who believe and/or worship Musk.
You suffer from both.
Do not go blaming Europe for this. Or Mandelson. The blame for this betrayal goes to those who support Trump and the GOP. It was obvious something like this was going to happen after the GOP's aid delay last year.
Shame on you.
Oh do fuck off. Every morning you’re on here trying to make things personal. In case you hadn’t noticed, I have a shitload more at stake than most on here when it comes to Ukraine.
You do have more at stake. Which makes your position so inexplicable.
But don't think that you're the only person who cares for Ukraine.
You have a choice: support Trump, Vance, Musk etc, or support Ukraine. The tightrope you have been walking for a year snapped months ago.
You fail to explain your position in a logical manner. You fail to criticise Trump, Musk et al when they sell Ukraine (or literally try to but it...). or parrot Russian lines.
So you get a lot of pushback. Good. Perhaps you should listen to what people are telling you.
Cracking speech, though who were the ‘founders’ of the British constitution ?
Blackwood Dicey Coke Burke De Montfort
Apologies to others I have forgotten
"Founders" ? I don't think that really fits. Our constitution is an accretion over many centuries; there's no one founding document, or even moment within the lifetime of some group of "founders".
"Others I might have forgotten" pretty well says it all.
Each of them was responsible for one great innovation that forms a pillar of our constitution today. We have a written constitution - it’s just not codified in one document.
Hopefully the next German chancellor will have a different view on troops in Ukraine.
Didn’t work out too well for the last German chancellor with those views.
I know you mean it as humour, but this is too important
Trump and Vance have broken the Western Alliance that has kept the peace (ish) in the world since the end of the Second World War.
He has betrayed his country’s friends and allies.
And for what benefit?
As stands, Trump will have broken the Western alliance, will probably push a number of natural US allies into the Chinese orbit, and will screw the US (and most Western economies over) via the introduction of tariffs.
What we have all missed about Trump is that he is a little man.
He and his backers care only about money.
Geopolitical worries, strategic concerns, the US’s long term reputation and standing with its friends and allies are all intangible assets that can be sold to the highest bidder.
If it costs him nothing personally bu it makes him money, then that is fine.
FWIW, I thank Ivanka and Jared have seen that and got the hell out of Dodge
It appears from comments on Russian media, that the Saudi meeting is all about restoring US-Russian relations and nothing about the SMO. It'll be an interesting pivot if all of a sudden the SMO ends.
Whatever the west says, it will be how any deal is sold to the Russian people e.g. Ukraine being punished for starting the invasion and the 'illegitimate' Zelensky being removed from office etc, etc.
Nothing particularly controversial in there, says that there needs to be an agreement acceptable to all sides in the conflict, and dangling a carrot of a restoration of dimplomatic and economic opportunities for US/Russia relations dependent on the end of the war.
Allegedly Lavrov’s first talking point was about how wonderful it would be for Trump to build an hotel in Sochi. LOL. More concerningly, he also allegedly made no concessions at all towards actually ending the war.
Let’s see what Gen. Kellogg has to say now, as he meets with a Ukranian delegation. Presumably Rubio and Kellogg will then meet with Trump and Vance to try and work out if there’s agreement on anything. I don’t think there will much agreement at this stage.
Mr Mandleson now has an important job to do, to make sure that Rubio and his team understand the British (and majority European) view of what an end to the conflict looks like.
Neither Rubio nor Kellogg's statements are really relevant to what's happening. And trying to affect that by lobbying Rubio is very likely a waste of time. Their job is to sell whatever Trump decides to us.8 The people currently in the room with the Russians that probably count are those closer to Trump - Mike Waltz and Steve Witkoff.
Trump reportedly plans to meet with Putin within a month. I seriously doubt that either Rubio or Kellogg will have a huge amount of input into that discussion.
Listen to what Trump himself is saying.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/18/trump-blames-zelenskyy-ukraine-war-020517 ..“Today I heard, ‘Oh, well, we weren’t invited,’” Trump said when asked about criticism from Ukraine, seeming to direct his response to Zelenskyy. “Well, you’ve been there for three years. You should have ended it — three years. You should have never been there. You should have never started it. You should have made a deal.”
The comment — ignoring that it was Russia that invaded Ukraine without provocation three years ago this month — was Trump’s harshest condemnation to date of the Ukrainian side. It came as Zelenskyy and leaders across Europe are scrambling to respond to growing indications that Kyiv’s most critical ally for the last three years appears to be more interested in normalizing relations with Russia than in making sure Ukraine endures and that Russian President Vladimir Putin faces stronger deterrence after starting the first land war on European soil since 1945.
Trump also confirmed his interest in forcing elections in Ukraine as part of any diplomatic resolution to the war...
...Trump also pushed back on a question stating that forcing Zelenskyy to stand for reelection was a Russian priority.
“That’s not a Russia thing,” Trump said. “That’s something coming from me and a lot of other countries also.”..
Sandpit is just preparing to blame Mandelson for Trump giving Putin everything he wants. It's TDS
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put
their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
What you are missing is the US is not an honest peace broker
Russia wants to be seen as a Great Power, treating on an equal footing with the US.
Trump will give them that. He thinks he can force Ukraine to accept a bad peace and that Europe won’t stand up for them.
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
"Trump Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who actually believe Trump. If you believe him, you are deranged.
In the same way "Musk Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who believe and/or worship Musk.
You suffer from both.
Do not go blaming Europe for this. Or Mandelson. The blame for this betrayal goes to those who support Trump and the GOP. It was obvious something like this was going to happen after the GOP's aid delay last year.
Shame on you.
Oh do fuck off. Every morning you’re on here trying to make things personal. In case you hadn’t noticed, I have a shitload more at stake than most on here when it comes to Ukraine.
Which, honestly, is why I struggle to understand how you are so relaxed about Trump’s actions.
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put
their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
What you are missing is the US is not an honest peace broker
Russia wants to be seen as a Great Power, treating on an equal footing with the US.
Trump will give them that. He thinks he can force Ukraine to accept a bad peace and that Europe won’t stand up for them.
Hopefully the next German chancellor will have a different view on troops in Ukraine.
Didn’t work out too well for the last German chancellor with those views.
I know you mean it as humour, but this is too important
Trump and Vance have broken the Western Alliance that has kept the peace (ish) in the world since the end of the Second World War.
He has betrayed his country’s friends and allies.
And for what benefit?
As stands, Trump will have broken the Western alliance, will probably push a number of natural US allies into the Chinese orbit, and will screw the US (and most Western economies over) via the introduction of tariffs.
What we have all missed about Trump is that he is a little man.
He and his backers care only about money.
Geopolitical worries, strategic concerns, the US’s long term reputation and standing with its friends and allies are all intangible assets that can be sold to the highest bidder.
If it costs him nothing personally bu it makes him money, then that is fine.
FWIW, I thank Ivanka and Jared have seen that and got the hell out of Dodge
Easier for Jared to get out when he's banked the Saudi billions.
Hopefully the next German chancellor will have a different view on troops in Ukraine.
Didn’t work out too well for the last German chancellor with those views.
I know you mean it as humour, but this is too important
Trump and Vance have broken the Western Alliance that has kept the peace (ish) in the world since the end of the Second World War.
He has betrayed his country’s friends and allies.
And for what benefit?
As stands, Trump will have broken the Western alliance, will probably push a number of natural US allies into the Chinese orbit, and will screw the US (and most Western economies over) via the introduction of tariffs.
What we have all missed about Trump is that he is a little man.
He and his backers care only about money.
Geopolitical worries, strategic concerns, the US’s long term reputation and standing with its friends and allies are all intangible assets that can be sold to the highest bidder.
If it costs him nothing personally bu it makes him money, then that is fine.
FWIW, I thank Ivanka and Jared have seen that and got the hell out of Dodge
Easier for Jared to get out when he's banked the Saudi billions.
Sure. But the Abraham Accords were broadly a good thing
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
"Trump Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who actually believe Trump. If you believe him, you are deranged.
In the same way "Musk Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who believe and/or worship Musk.
You suffer from both.
Do not go blaming Europe for this. Or Mandelson. The blame for this betrayal goes to those who support Trump and the GOP. It was obvious something like this was going to happen after the GOP's aid delay last year.
Shame on you.
Oh do fuck off. Every morning you’re on here trying to make things personal. In case you hadn’t noticed, I have a shitload more at stake than most on here when it comes to Ukraine.
You do have more at stake. Which makes your position so inexplicable.
But don't think that you're the only person who cares for Ukraine.
You have a choice: support Trump, Vance, Musk etc, or support Ukraine. The tightrope you have been walking for a year snapped months ago.
You fail to explain your position in a logical manner. You fail to criticise Trump, Musk et al when they sell Ukraine (or literally try to but it...). or parrot Russian lines.
So you get a lot of pushback. Good. Perhaps you should listen to what people are telling you.
If you care for Ukraine, that is.
So doubling down rather than fucking off.
I guess it’s me that fucks off then. If @rcs1000 and @TheScreamingEagles wish to run a site where every polite opinion that isn’t a severe case of Trump Derangement Sydrome is met with a torrent of personal abuse, even at six o’clock in the morning, then it’s not a site that interests me.
The Russian obstinance following Riyadh suggest there was no co-ordinated dance in the background between Trump's USA and Russia.
Trump claiming Ukraine started the war just shows the nature of the disaster unfolding. Maybe he mispoke, but it demonstrates his infantile effort to barge into that war. No prepared groundwork. No common ground with allies. Just a solo effort to be the centre stage of world affairs. A stage that is a minefield.
The Russians however risk seriously overplaying their hand. They need a truce. Badly. Their supply lines are being broken. They are currently being pushed back across various fronts. Their oil infrastructure is in flames. If Trump thinks they aren't playing his game, he is likely to throw a temper tantrum - and screw them over. He could pause his "peace" efforts for six months. That is going to be a painful period for Russia if he backs off.
It is self evident that the Business Secretary has committed a criminal offence by describing himself as a "Solicitor" when non-articled trainee clerk would have been the correct designation. That is straight forward.
However, as a member of the legal profession surely there is also a duty on Starmer to ensure those who work with him are properly described, in the same way as a doctor has a duty to report fellow "doctors" if it transpires they might not have elementary competence. Particularly now it has come to light is Starmer not in real jepardy if he does not remove the whip from Reynolds with all convenient haste ?
I'm currently decorating my son's bedroom. Our cats have found a fun new game. It's called "Peel the masking tape off the walls when the human's back is turned." They love it. :)
The Russian obstinance following Riyadh suggest there was no co-ordinated dance in the background between Trump's USA and Russia.
Trump claiming Ukraine started the war just shows the nature of the disaster unfolding. Maybe he mispoke, but it demonstrates his infantile effort to barge into that war. No prepared groundwork. No common ground with allies. Just a solo effort to be the centre stage of world affairs. A stage that is a minefield.
The Russians however risk seriously overplaying their hand. They need a truce. Badly. Their supply lines are being broken. They are currently being pushed back across various fronts. Their oil infrastructure is in flames. If Trump thinks they aren't playing his game, he is likely to throw a temper tantrum - and screw them over. He could pause his "peace" efforts for six months. That is going to be a painful period for Russia if he backs off.
Nice story. If only. So far Trump is singing Putins tune note for note.
The pressure for labour to drop their red lines just keeps building and building. It is turning from a whisper into a roar. There is no way that policy survives till GE2029
P.s. i will bet you the next statista poll has stay out at well below 30% due to the new world order that has appeared since Jan 20.
Honestly, it’s like the League of Empire Loyalists. Our EU membership has gone and isn’t coming back. Joining is just not practical. No rational U.K. Government will go for a customs union or the single market either.
However, this situation will engender good will in the EU and U.K., and we’ll end up with narrow equivalence deals and some dynamic alignment. I doubt we’ll argue too strongly over things like fishing either, as we turn our collective minds to something more like a boosted European community beyond the EU, and structures growing out of NATO without the U.S.
You are living in a dream world mate.
In what way? If you think we’re going to join the EU, then I am afraid you don’t understand what that would mean. No sensible politician is going to push for a referendum on the Euro and Schengen, but those sorts of aspirations may be overtaken by events anyway.
I never said anything about sliding directly into full membership. I said dropping red lines. I see cu and sm as being a first step that would last a decade before full membership came up. And I amnpredicting the red lines to drop before 2029.
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
"Trump Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who actually believe Trump. If you believe him, you are deranged.
In the same way "Musk Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who believe and/or worship Musk.
You suffer from both.
Do not go blaming Europe for this. Or Mandelson. The blame for this betrayal goes to those who support Trump and the GOP. It was obvious something like this was going to happen after the GOP's aid delay last year.
Shame on you.
Oh do fuck off. Every morning you’re on here trying to make things personal. In case you hadn’t noticed, I have a shitload more at stake than most on here when it comes to Ukraine.
You do have more at stake. Which makes your position so inexplicable.
But don't think that you're the only person who cares for Ukraine.
You have a choice: support Trump, Vance, Musk etc, or support Ukraine. The tightrope you have been walking for a year snapped months ago.
You fail to explain your position in a logical manner. You fail to criticise Trump, Musk et al when they sell Ukraine (or literally try to but it...). or parrot Russian lines.
So you get a lot of pushback. Good. Perhaps you should listen to what people are telling you.
If you care for Ukraine, that is.
So doubling down rather than fucking off.
I guess it’s me that fucks off then. If @rcs1000 and @TheScreamingEagles wish to run a site where every polite opinion that isn’t a severe case of Trump Derangement Sydrome is met with a torrent of personal abuse, even at six o’clock in the morning, then it’s not a site that interests me.
See you all in a few months. Maybe.
Trump Derangement Syndrome is a real thing.
And when Trump took over, I took a step back. You know, the people voted for him, and I want the best for the US and the world.
When he allowed Ukraine to fire missiles into Russia and threatened additional sanctions if there was no peace (albeit... errr... what additional sanctions could there be...) And then there seemed to be a radical, but ultimately necessary, look at US government spending.
Well, I was cheered.
But that cheer has turned to disappointment, and in turn to fear.
You know the Greenland thing... I mean whatever. And the Gulf of America... Yeah OK...
I'm still feeling OK about the Trump Presidency at this point.
But then there was the bonkers threats of tariffs on Canada.
Then there was the complete misunderstanding of how VAT works.
And what is -essentially- punishing the US's friends while giving succour to Russia.
Most recently it has been Trump's behaviour with regards to Ukraine, and in particular the deliberate choice of words around Ukraine having somehow caused the invasion.
Suddenly it seems like Trump Derangement Symptom is normalizing his behavior.
Sunak steps aside for Hague in Richmond and the nominations in the 1922 force a Hague Coronation. Or is there a route back for Penny mourdant.
We need a Tory leader with some old school gravitas able to work in the national interest.
Tee hee. You'd love that. All as crap as Starmer so no point in voting for a change. I'm afraid the genie is very much out of the lamp now.
God forbid a Tory leader with gravitas working in the national interest. How terrible. Student politicking over synthetic dividing lines is definitely what we need right now. Read Churchills lights going out speech to see what conservative leadership looks like.
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
"Trump Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who actually believe Trump. If you believe him, you are deranged.
In the same way "Musk Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who believe and/or worship Musk.
You suffer from both.
Do not go blaming Europe for this. Or Mandelson. The blame for this betrayal goes to those who support Trump and the GOP. It was obvious something like this was going to happen after the GOP's aid delay last year.
Shame on you.
Oh do fuck off. Every morning you’re on here trying to make things personal. In case you hadn’t noticed, I have a shitload more at stake than most on here when it comes to Ukraine.
You do have more at stake. Which makes your position so inexplicable.
But don't think that you're the only person who cares for Ukraine.
You have a choice: support Trump, Vance, Musk etc, or support Ukraine. The tightrope you have been walking for a year snapped months ago.
You fail to explain your position in a logical manner. You fail to criticise Trump, Musk et al when they sell Ukraine (or literally try to but it...). or parrot Russian lines.
So you get a lot of pushback. Good. Perhaps you should listen to what people are telling you.
If you care for Ukraine, that is.
So doubling down rather than fucking off.
I guess it’s me that fucks off then. If @rcs1000 and @TheScreamingEagles wish to run a site where every polite opinion that isn’t a severe case of Trump Derangement Sydrome is met with a torrent of personal abuse, even at six o’clock in the morning, then it’s not a site that interests me.
See you all in a few months. Maybe.
Please stay.
But also try to think about what I've said. I simply don't understand your position. which appears utterly contradictory.
On topic, I’m reminded of Conrad’s MacWhirr and the prevention paradox - leaders get no credit for delivering something less good than it otherwise would have been. (See y2k, ozone layer etc)
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
"Trump Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who actually believe Trump. If you believe him, you are deranged.
In the same way "Musk Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who believe and/or worship Musk.
You suffer from both.
Do not go blaming Europe for this. Or Mandelson. The blame for this betrayal goes to those who support Trump and the GOP. It was obvious something like this was going to happen after the GOP's aid delay last year.
Shame on you.
Oh do fuck off. Every morning you’re on here trying to make things personal. In case you hadn’t noticed, I have a shitload more at stake than most on here when it comes to Ukraine.
You do have more at stake. Which makes your position so inexplicable.
But don't think that you're the only person who cares for Ukraine.
You have a choice: support Trump, Vance, Musk etc, or support Ukraine. The tightrope you have been walking for a year snapped months ago.
You fail to explain your position in a logical manner. You fail to criticise Trump, Musk et al when they sell Ukraine (or literally try to but it...). or parrot Russian lines.
So you get a lot of pushback. Good. Perhaps you should listen to what people are telling you.
If you care for Ukraine, that is.
So doubling down rather than fucking off.
I guess it’s me that fucks off then. If @rcs1000 and @TheScreamingEagles wish to run a site where every polite opinion that isn’t a severe case of Trump Derangement Sydrome is met with a torrent of personal abuse, even at six o’clock in the morning, then it’s not a site that interests me.
See you all in a few months. Maybe.
Trump Derangement Syndrome is a real thing.
And when Trump took over, I took a step back. You know, the people voted for him, and I want the best for the US and the world.
When he allowed Ukraine to fire missiles into Russia and threatened additional sanctions if there was no peace (albeit... errr... what additional sanctions could there be...) And then there seemed to be a radical, but ultimately necessary, look at US government spending.
Well, I was cheered.
But that cheer has turned to disappointment, and in turn to fear.
You know the Greenland thing... I mean whatever. And the Gulf of America... Yeah OK...
I'm still feeling OK about the Trump Presidency at this point.
But then there was the bonkers threats of tariffs on Canada.
Then there was the complete misunderstanding of how VAT works.
And what is -essentially- punishing the US's friends while giving succour to Russia.
Most recently it has been Trump's behaviour with regards to Ukraine, and in particular the deliberate choice of words around Ukraine having somehow caused the invasion.
Suddenly it seems like Trump Derangement Symptom is normalizing his behavior.
I was in the same place as you and as troubling as what you listed is the firing of all US attorneys nominated by Biden , assuring that every time there is a change in government there then law will be political, and the crazy support and pressure for Andrew Tate.
TheAndrew Tate thing shows the Trump cabal for what it is. The fact that there is someone in the administration who thinks Tate is a goody and should be helped, interfering in the legal process of another ostensible ally is nuts in itself, the fact that the administration are supporting this position is grim.
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
"Trump Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who actually believe Trump. If you believe him, you are deranged.
In the same way "Musk Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who believe and/or worship Musk.
You suffer from both.
Do not go blaming Europe for this. Or Mandelson. The blame for this betrayal goes to those who support Trump and the GOP. It was obvious something like this was going to happen after the GOP's aid delay last year.
Shame on you.
Oh do fuck off. Every morning you’re on here trying to make things personal. In case you hadn’t noticed, I have a shitload more at stake than most on here when it comes to Ukraine.
You do have more at stake. Which makes your position so inexplicable.
But don't think that you're the only person who cares for Ukraine.
You have a choice: support Trump, Vance, Musk etc, or support Ukraine. The tightrope you have been walking for a year snapped months ago.
You fail to explain your position in a logical manner. You fail to criticise Trump, Musk et al when they sell Ukraine (or literally try to but it...). or parrot Russian lines.
So you get a lot of pushback. Good. Perhaps you should listen to what people are telling you.
If you care for Ukraine, that is.
So doubling down rather than fucking off.
I guess it’s me that fucks off then. If @rcs1000 and @TheScreamingEagles wish to run a site where every polite opinion that isn’t a severe case of Trump Derangement Sydrome is met with a torrent of personal abuse, even at six o’clock in the morning, then it’s not a site that interests me.
See you all in a few months. Maybe.
Trump Derangement Syndrome is a real thing.
And when Trump took over, I took a step back. You know, the people voted for him, and I want the best for the US and the world.
When he allowed Ukraine to fire missiles into Russia and threatened additional sanctions if there was no peace (albeit... errr... what additional sanctions could there be...) And then there seemed to be a radical, but ultimately necessary, look at US government spending.
Well, I was cheered.
But that cheer has turned to disappointment, and in turn to fear.
You know the Greenland thing... I mean whatever. And the Gulf of America... Yeah OK...
I'm still feeling OK about the Trump Presidency at this point.
But then there was the bonkers threats of tariffs on Canada.
Then there was the complete misunderstanding of how VAT works.
And what is -essentially- punishing the US's friends while giving succour to Russia.
Most recently it has been Trump's behaviour with regards to Ukraine, and in particular the deliberate choice of words around Ukraine having somehow caused the invasion.
Suddenly it seems like Trump Derangement Symptom is normalizing his behavior.
It does beg the question what would Trump have to do for some people to say ‘nah’. I suspect if he nuked an ally some people here would still be making excuses.
As a now retired farmer I have some but limited sympathy for the President of the NFU, Tom Bradshaw. There is no doubt he is a better holder of the office than his more recent predecessors. However, the general policy of the NFU leadership going back to when Henry Plumb left office in the 1980s has now been exposed for the sham it always has been. In my own case it had been my intention to allow my membership to lapse when I retired and it was only because of Tom Bradshaw becoming President that I have taken out lifetime Retired Farmer membership.
The policy has always been to hammer any Tory Minister to get more but to swivel to Labour and the LDs to stop them doing any more harm that their instincts demand. Now it is no doubt because the entire Defra Team is clueless about agriculture that we are where we are. The NFU has made a BAD counter proposal which has been rejected out of hand. ( I imagine there is some relief in that from the NFU team. ) The NFU now has to say, stay legal etc, mainly to protect the industry as a whole. I imagine the NFU hope, such as it is, is that their counter proposal will still be taken up when Reeves is finally sacked.
But sadly, today to me as a retired farmer the old saying, NFU, NFUse seems all too true.
Of course the industry will win and Labour and their Vichy Regime supporters in the LDs will be out of power for 50 years after this. But that is what happens when a Prime Minister comes to power who decides to lead the country for his own partisan interests and dismisses the idea of being Prime Minister of the whole country, those who did not vote for him as well as his supporters.
The Russian obstinance following Riyadh suggest there was no co-ordinated dance in the background between Trump's USA and Russia.
Trump claiming Ukraine started the war just shows the nature of the disaster unfolding. Maybe he mispoke, but it demonstrates his infantile effort to barge into that war. No prepared groundwork. No common ground with allies. Just a solo effort to be the centre stage of world affairs. A stage that is a minefield.
The Russians however risk seriously overplaying their hand. They need a truce. Badly. Their supply lines are being broken. They are currently being pushed back across various fronts. Their oil infrastructure is in flames. If Trump thinks they aren't playing his game, he is likely to throw a temper tantrum - and screw them over. He could pause his "peace" efforts for six months. That is going to be a painful period for Russia if he backs off.
Nice story. If only. So far Trump is singing Putins tune note for note.
And that's a real worry. The parroting of the Kremlin's lies will make it much harder for Trump to reverse his position and support Ukraine in the future - if he wants. After all, he has said Ukraine started the war, that the war was the west's fault, etc, etc. That's what his base, suffering from TDS, will believe.
Which is a shame, as I do think that MM's correct that Russia is in deep do-do. But Putin may get a political victory where his military have utterly failed. And that's a really bad precedent for the future.
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
"Trump Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who actually believe Trump. If you believe him, you are deranged.
In the same way "Musk Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who believe and/or worship Musk.
You suffer from both.
Do not go blaming Europe for this. Or Mandelson. The blame for this betrayal goes to those who support Trump and the GOP. It was obvious something like this was going to happen after the GOP's aid delay last year.
Shame on you.
Oh do fuck off. Every morning you’re on here trying to make things personal. In case you hadn’t noticed, I have a shitload more at stake than most on here when it comes to Ukraine.
You do have more at stake. Which makes your position so inexplicable.
But don't think that you're the only person who cares for Ukraine.
You have a choice: support Trump, Vance, Musk etc, or support Ukraine. The tightrope you have been walking for a year snapped months ago.
You fail to explain your position in a logical manner. You fail to criticise Trump, Musk et al when they sell Ukraine (or literally try to but it...). or parrot Russian lines.
So you get a lot of pushback. Good. Perhaps you should listen to what people are telling you.
If you care for Ukraine, that is.
So doubling down rather than fucking off.
I guess it’s me that fucks off then. If @rcs1000 and @TheScreamingEagles wish to run a site where every polite opinion that isn’t a severe case of Trump Derangement Sydrome is met with a torrent of personal abuse, even at six o’clock in the morning, then it’s not a site that interests me.
It is self evident that the Business Secretary has committed a criminal offence by describing himself as a "Solicitor" when non-articled trainee clerk would have been the correct designation. That is straight forward.
However, as a member of the legal profession surely there is also a duty on Starmer to ensure those who work with him are properly described, in the same way as a doctor has a duty to report fellow "doctors" if it transpires they might not have elementary competence. Particularly now it has come to light is Starmer not in real jepardy if he does not remove the whip from Reynolds with all convenient haste ?
Is the criminal offence *practicing* as a solicitor (which he probably did not) Vs exaggerating on his CV (which he probably did)?
Sandpit, you claimed Matt Gaetz would be a good choice for Attorney General. That, among other examples, suggests you are a Trump supporter because only the most hardcore Trump supporters ever thought that. No neutral observer looked at Gaetz and thought he was a good choice.
As a now retired farmer I have some but limited sympathy for the President of the NFU, Tom Bradshaw. There is no doubt he is a better holder of the office than his more recent predecessors. However, the general policy of the NFU leadership going back to when Henry Plumb left office in the 1980s has now been exposed for the sham it always has been. In my own case it had been my intention to allow my membership to lapse when I retired and it was only because of Tom Bradshaw becoming President that I have taken out lifetime Retired Farmer membership.
The policy has always been to hammer any Tory Minister to get more but to swivel to Labour and the LDs to stop them doing any more harm that their instincts demand. Now it is no doubt because the entire Defra Team is clueless about agriculture that we are where we are. The NFU has made a BAD counter proposal which has been rejected out of hand. ( I imagine there is some relief in that from the NFU team. ) The NFU now has to say, stay legal etc, mainly to protect the industry as a whole. I imagine the NFU hope, such as it is, is that their counter proposal will still be taken up when Reeves is finally sacked.
But sadly, today to me as a retired farmer the old saying, NFU, NFUse seems all too true.
Of course the industry will win and Labour and their Vichy Regime supporters in the LDs will be out of power for 50 years after this. But that is what happens when a Prime Minister comes to power who decides to lead the country for his own partisan interests and dismisses the idea of being Prime Minister of the whole country, those who did not vote for him as well as his supporters.
Multi-millionaire businessmen should expect to be considered for tax treatment, it doesn't make the government bloody Nazis like you said.
I value the democratic institutions, including the rule of law and a free press, above and beyond any individual policy. There can be sincerely held views of the left or of the right; of liberalism and of more social control. As it happens I am a liberal, but I don't fear for wellbeing of UK democracy if others are in power.
People who talked of Trump Derangement Syndrome missed the warning signing that Trump term #2 threatens that democratic order - he always preferred autocrats to other democratic leaders; January 5th; talk of dictatorship on day 1. All the warning signs were there.
He has proceeded in power by ignoring Congress and acting like a King. He is betraying his allies and cosying up to authoritarians like Putin.
People still clinging onto the notion he is just a normal politician getting things done are the ones who are deranged.
Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico · 3h If Team Trump imagines there's going to be a peace deal here that Ukrainians accept, based on Russia permanently receiving 20% of Ukraine, & Ukraine will never fight again to recover its land, with everyone "moving on", then they are utterly delusional.
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
You're just finding it hard to admit how wrong you were.
Imagine if a politician you didn't like had said what Trump had said. Let's say Starmer on taking office had started repeating Kremlin propaganda, had said 'Ukraine shouldn't have started the war' 'Ukraine will have to give up territory' 'Ukraine won't join NATO' 'First Ukraine has to pay us hundreds of billions they owe us for the support we've given them' 'Let's stop the sanctions' and so on
I think you would have been the first to condemn him in very strong terms. But with Trump - no comment.
Or take your cheering of cutting USAID to Ukraine, falsely claiming that 90% of it went to the 'Washington swamp' and repeating that again and again even after being shown at least twice how that money had been spent in Ukraine.
On topic, and why not, the money we need to spend and the thinking we need to do about our defence in a world without NATO or an alliance with the US has gone up again over night. In one month Trump has destroyed NATO and the western alliance that has kept us secure since 1945. He has betrayed a country invaded by a despotic psychopath and blames them for 3 years of brutal warfare trying to protect their homeland. He has shown the US to be an unreliable partner indifferent to the views and interests of its erstwhile ally.
The western Alliance is at an end. We should not rush into some botched job of a replacement but we certainly need some deep thinking about what comes next.
As a now retired farmer I have some but limited sympathy for the President of the NFU, Tom Bradshaw. There is no doubt he is a better holder of the office than his more recent predecessors. However, the general policy of the NFU leadership going back to when Henry Plumb left office in the 1980s has now been exposed for the sham it always has been. In my own case it had been my intention to allow my membership to lapse when I retired and it was only because of Tom Bradshaw becoming President that I have taken out lifetime Retired Farmer membership.
The policy has always been to hammer any Tory Minister to get more but to swivel to Labour and the LDs to stop them doing any more harm that their instincts demand. Now it is no doubt because the entire Defra Team is clueless about agriculture that we are where we are. The NFU has made a BAD counter proposal which has been rejected out of hand. ( I imagine there is some relief in that from the NFU team. ) The NFU now has to say, stay legal etc, mainly to protect the industry as a whole. I imagine the NFU hope, such as it is, is that their counter proposal will still be taken up when Reeves is finally sacked.
But sadly, today to me as a retired farmer the old saying, NFU, NFUse seems all too true.
Of course the industry will win and Labour and their Vichy Regime supporters in the LDs will be out of power for 50 years after this. But that is what happens when a Prime Minister comes to power who decides to lead the country for his own partisan interests and dismisses the idea of being Prime Minister of the whole country, those who did not vote for him as well as his supporters.
Multi-millionaire businessmen should expect to be considered for tax treatment, it doesn't make the government bloody Nazis like you said.
These changes have no effect on millionaire business men. It is families where both partners work 60, 80 hours per week for less than half the minimum wage, never taking a holiday that this vile National Socialist government measure affects.
It is families where the kids WORK for no pay during school holidays; it is families where the kids have to help milk the cows before school and after school, why, becuase it is part of their future. This is an evil government.
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
"Trump Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who actually believe Trump. If you believe him, you are deranged.
In the same way "Musk Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who believe and/or worship Musk.
You suffer from both.
Do not go blaming Europe for this. Or Mandelson. The blame for this betrayal goes to those who support Trump and the GOP. It was obvious something like this was going to happen after the GOP's aid delay last year.
Shame on you.
Oh do fuck off. Every morning you’re on here trying to make things personal. In case you hadn’t noticed, I have a shitload more at stake than most on here when it comes to Ukraine.
You do have more at stake. Which makes your position so inexplicable.
But don't think that you're the only person who cares for Ukraine.
You have a choice: support Trump, Vance, Musk etc, or support Ukraine. The tightrope you have been walking for a year snapped months ago.
You fail to explain your position in a logical manner. You fail to criticise Trump, Musk et al when they sell Ukraine (or literally try to but it...). or parrot Russian lines.
So you get a lot of pushback. Good. Perhaps you should listen to what people are telling you.
If you care for Ukraine, that is.
So doubling down rather than fucking off.
I guess it’s me that fucks off then. If @rcs1000 and @TheScreamingEagles wish to run a site where every polite opinion that isn’t a severe case of Trump Derangement Sydrome is met with a torrent of personal abuse, even at six o’clock in the morning, then it’s not a site that interests me.
See you all in a few months. Maybe.
Trump Derangement Syndrome is a real thing.
And when Trump took over, I took a step back. You know, the people voted for him, and I want the best for the US and the world.
When he allowed Ukraine to fire missiles into Russia and threatened additional sanctions if there was no peace (albeit... errr... what additional sanctions could there be...) And then there seemed to be a radical, but ultimately necessary, look at US government spending.
Well, I was cheered.
But that cheer has turned to disappointment, and in turn to fear.
You know the Greenland thing... I mean whatever. And the Gulf of America... Yeah OK...
I'm still feeling OK about the Trump Presidency at this point.
But then there was the bonkers threats of tariffs on Canada.
Then there was the complete misunderstanding of how VAT works.
And what is -essentially- punishing the US's friends while giving succour to Russia.
Most recently it has been Trump's behaviour with regards to Ukraine, and in particular the deliberate choice of words around Ukraine having somehow caused the invasion.
Suddenly it seems like Trump Derangement Symptom is normalizing his behavior.
I agree with all of that.
I’m convinced now, that Trump, Musk, Gabbard, Kennedy, Hegseth, Vance, etc. are
(a) evil, (b) fascists.
And, by that, I mean real fascists, the sort who leave millions of dead in their wake.
They want to carve the world up with their fellow kleptocrats.
In the end, the USA will be a huge loser from this.
Nothing particularly controversial in there, says that there needs to be an agreement acceptable to all sides in the conflict, and dangling a carrot of a restoration of dimplomatic and economic opportunities for US/Russia relations dependent on the end of the war.
Allegedly Lavrov’s first talking point was about how wonderful it would be for Trump to build an hotel in Sochi. LOL. More concerningly, he also allegedly made no concessions at all towards actually ending the war.
Let’s see what Gen. Kellogg has to say now, as he meets with a Ukranian delegation. Presumably Rubio and Kellogg will then meet with Trump and Vance to try and work out if there’s agreement on anything. I don’t think there will much agreement at this stage.
Mr Mandleson now has an important job to do, to make sure that Rubio and his team understand the British (and majority European) view of what an end to the conflict looks like.
Neither Rubio nor Kellogg's statements are really relevant to what's happening. And trying to affect that by lobbying Rubio is very likely a waste of time. Their job is to sell whatever Trump decides to us.8 The people currently in the room with the Russians that probably count are those closer to Trump - Mike Waltz and Steve Witkoff.
Trump reportedly plans to meet with Putin within a month. I seriously doubt that either Rubio or Kellogg will have a huge amount of input into that discussion.
Listen to what Trump himself is saying.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/18/trump-blames-zelenskyy-ukraine-war-020517 ..“Today I heard, ‘Oh, well, we weren’t invited,’” Trump said when asked about criticism from Ukraine, seeming to direct his response to Zelenskyy. “Well, you’ve been there for three years. You should have ended it — three years. You should have never been there. You should have never started it. You should have made a deal.”
The comment — ignoring that it was Russia that invaded Ukraine without provocation three years ago this month — was Trump’s harshest condemnation to date of the Ukrainian side. It came as Zelenskyy and leaders across Europe are scrambling to respond to growing indications that Kyiv’s most critical ally for the last three years appears to be more interested in normalizing relations with Russia than in making sure Ukraine endures and that Russian President Vladimir Putin faces stronger deterrence after starting the first land war on European soil since 1945.
Trump also confirmed his interest in forcing elections in Ukraine as part of any diplomatic resolution to the war...
...Trump also pushed back on a question stating that forcing Zelenskyy to stand for reelection was a Russian priority.
“That’s not a Russia thing,” Trump said. “That’s something coming from me and a lot of other countries also.”..
Kamski: Sandpit is just preparing to blame Mandelson for Trump giving Putin everything he wants. It's TDS
The current pivot on twitter is "if only the Dems hadn't been so woke, they could have prevented this from happening".
Kind of encouraging, because it suggests people are starting to find Trump impossible to defend. There is a line.
Donald Trump is demanding Volodymyr Zelensky hold elections that could oust him from office as the price of peace.
What does Trump have against Zelensky?
He is a constant reminder of what a proper leader looks like.
Wasn’t Zelensky in charge when Trump wanted the dirt on the Biden’s that he did not get?
If Zelensky had any sense he should have should fabricated whatever bullshit DJT wanted to nail Hunter. Trump would have poured in the firepower for that act of manus lavat manum.
Z. hasn't exactly been a paragon of virtue when it comes to dealing with his domestic opponents and since his political party/pub quiz team fell apart he hasn't been shy about cutting deals with pro-Russian politicians like Boyko to get legislation through the Rada so I don't know why he was a blushing virgin about fitting Hunter up.
The US has really fucked it today. Accepting Russian terms in total is a capitulation. Europe needs to tool up and tell the US to go jump off a bridge and we need to protect our own borders properly. UK + France + Poland in an ExCo with associate members. The three ExCo countries need to have a minimum of 4% defence spending and associate members at 2.5%, time to show Russia what we're made of.
It’s interesting as it’s totally flipped my view on Europe. Was a euro sceptic, but absolutely need to be closer to Europe now. America are not our friends
Europe yes, but not the EU. A defence pact needs to happen outside of the EU or anywhere near it because needing unanimity of 28 countries (27 in the EU plus the UK) would be impossible and Russia would use its acolytes like Orban to block any action and manipulate election results in Eastern Bloc nations to put Putin placemen into government. The EU is most susceptible to Russian manipulation because it requires unanimity in decision making for foreign policy.
We need to bilateral and multilateral treaties outside of the scope of the EU or a defence pact to replace NATO won't work.
But your fundamental basis for this argument is that we need to control what happens on the continent of Europe. Put simply, we don't. We are blessed to be separated from the continent by 'a silver sea' that makes us independent. That goes for military as well as political entanglements. We consistently fail to take advantage of the situation that fate has given us.
We have been here before when Britain spent its blood and a fortune fighting in the wars of the Spanish succession. The same people would have been around then, demanding that it was the only patriotic option to fight, and that those against it were allowing the hated French to control the continent. It was only when we stopped that nonsense and instead invested in naval force that we became a great power. Incidentally, Europe then also sorted itself out (for a while at least).
And we know what you'd have been saying in September 1939.
It's definitely what I'd have been saying in 1914, when foolish warmongers thought a jolly war on the continent would blow the cobwebs away and toughen us up a bit. Followed by The Somme, mustard gas, and the end of Britain's remarkable and peace-promoting leadership of the world economy. And without which there would have been no Hitler.
You might want to think what German war aims were in 1914. And consider how they treated occupied countries. And what they extracted from Russia in 1918. Nazi Germany didn’t spring out of nothing. The Germany of WW1 was not some cuddly set of chaps, just on the wrong side.
And? It didn't do the USA any harm to stand on the sidelines and get rich supplying munitions, joining later to deliver the decisive blow. It didn't do them any harm as far as posterity is concerned either. Those who suggest that I'm a would-be Nazi appeaser seem to have very little cricitism of the US war records.
Revealing that you wouldn’t have given a shit for the Belgians, or the French, the Poles, the Russians either in 1914 or presumably 1939. Good clarification, thanks.
Funny, I hear you condemning me for invented cowardice that you ascribe to a past version of me, but I've never heard you utter a single critique of how the USA handled either world war.
I’m not calling you a coward - I don’t see where you get that from. I’m asserting that you are wrong about the consequences of not fighting. And you need to consider the history of US support for Britain in 1939-1941, before they formally entered the war.
Absolutely - and I would be more than prepared to offer the same support (preferential sales of arms and other essentials to an allied combatant). Glad we got that sorted.
The US only help if it makes them money, fair weather friends for sure.
As a now retired farmer I have some but limited sympathy for the President of the NFU, Tom Bradshaw. There is no doubt he is a better holder of the office than his more recent predecessors. However, the general policy of the NFU leadership going back to when Henry Plumb left office in the 1980s has now been exposed for the sham it always has been. In my own case it had been my intention to allow my membership to lapse when I retired and it was only because of Tom Bradshaw becoming President that I have taken out lifetime Retired Farmer membership.
The policy has always been to hammer any Tory Minister to get more but to swivel to Labour and the LDs to stop them doing any more harm that their instincts demand. Now it is no doubt because the entire Defra Team is clueless about agriculture that we are where we are. The NFU has made a BAD counter proposal which has been rejected out of hand. ( I imagine there is some relief in that from the NFU team. ) The NFU now has to say, stay legal etc, mainly to protect the industry as a whole. I imagine the NFU hope, such as it is, is that their counter proposal will still be taken up when Reeves is finally sacked.
But sadly, today to me as a retired farmer the old saying, NFU, NFUse seems all too true.
Of course the industry will win and Labour and their Vichy Regime supporters in the LDs will be out of power for 50 years after this. But that is what happens when a Prime Minister comes to power who decides to lead the country for his own partisan interests and dismisses the idea of being Prime Minister of the whole country, those who did not vote for him as well as his supporters.
Multi-millionaire businessmen should expect to be considered for tax treatment, it doesn't make the government bloody Nazis like you said.
These changes have no effect on millionaire business men. It is families where both partners work 60, 80 hours per week for less than half the minimum wage, never taking a holiday that this vile National Socialist government measure affects.
It is families where the kids WORK for no pay during school holidays; it is families where the kids have to help milk the cows before school and after school, why, becuase it is part of their future. This is an evil government.
Part of their future? Why do farmers want to impose a disastrous lifestyle on the next generation. It's a form of uber masochism.
So I wonder how Starmer will play his US visit. There’s a decent chance that Trump will try to humiliate / string arm him. How do you assert yourself, make your case, brush off insults without taking too much shit or breaking bridges.
The lawyer training might offer some protection. But good grief this is a tough gig.
Strong, resolute, forceful; including in the presser. Trump won’t respect conciliatory. And one hopes the Prince of Darkness has been working his magic.
Mandelson might turn out to have been an inspired appointment. I suspect he can play Trump nearly as well as Putin can.
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
"Trump Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who actually believe Trump. If you believe him, you are deranged.
In the same way "Musk Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who believe and/or worship Musk.
You suffer from both.
Do not go blaming Europe for this. Or Mandelson. The blame for this betrayal goes to those who support Trump and the GOP. It was obvious something like this was going to happen after the GOP's aid delay last year.
Shame on you.
Oh do fuck off. Every morning you’re on here trying to make things personal. In case you hadn’t noticed, I have a shitload more at stake than most on here when it comes to Ukraine.
You do have more at stake. Which makes your position so inexplicable.
But don't think that you're the only person who cares for Ukraine.
You have a choice: support Trump, Vance, Musk etc, or support Ukraine. The tightrope you have been walking for a year snapped months ago.
You fail to explain your position in a logical manner. You fail to criticise Trump, Musk et al when they sell Ukraine (or literally try to but it...). or parrot Russian lines.
So you get a lot of pushback. Good. Perhaps you should listen to what people are telling you.
If you care for Ukraine, that is.
So doubling down rather than fucking off.
I guess it’s me that fucks off then. If @rcs1000 and @TheScreamingEagles wish to run a site where every polite opinion that isn’t a severe case of Trump Derangement Sydrome is met with a torrent of personal abuse, even at six o’clock in the morning, then it’s not a site that interests me.
See you all in a few months. Maybe.
Big baby tantrum, don't hit your arse on the door on the way out
On topic, and why not, the money we need to spend and the thinking we need to do about our defence in a world without NATO or an alliance with the US has gone up again over night. In one month Trump has destroyed NATO and the western alliance that has kept us secure since 1945. He has betrayed a country invaded by a despotic psychopath and blames them for 3 years of brutal warfare trying to protect their homeland. He has shown the US to be an unreliable partner indifferent to the views and interests of its erstwhile ally.
The western Alliance is at an end. We should not rush into some botched job of a replacement but we certainly need some deep thinking about what comes next.
We certainly can do nothing on our own, only viable option is Europe. Stop buying anything from USA and build up European defence companies and standardise to make it more affordable. Buy from anybody but USA. Personally I would chuck Americans out and rent all teh bases to China , that would give spacehopper something to dribble over.
As a now retired farmer I have some but limited sympathy for the President of the NFU, Tom Bradshaw. There is no doubt he is a better holder of the office than his more recent predecessors. However, the general policy of the NFU leadership going back to when Henry Plumb left office in the 1980s has now been exposed for the sham it always has been. In my own case it had been my intention to allow my membership to lapse when I retired and it was only because of Tom Bradshaw becoming President that I have taken out lifetime Retired Farmer membership.
The policy has always been to hammer any Tory Minister to get more but to swivel to Labour and the LDs to stop them doing any more harm that their instincts demand. Now it is no doubt because the entire Defra Team is clueless about agriculture that we are where we are. The NFU has made a BAD counter proposal which has been rejected out of hand. ( I imagine there is some relief in that from the NFU team. ) The NFU now has to say, stay legal etc, mainly to protect the industry as a whole. I imagine the NFU hope, such as it is, is that their counter proposal will still be taken up when Reeves is finally sacked.
But sadly, today to me as a retired farmer the old saying, NFU, NFUse seems all too true.
Of course the industry will win and Labour and their Vichy Regime supporters in the LDs will be out of power for 50 years after this. But that is what happens when a Prime Minister comes to power who decides to lead the country for his own partisan interests and dismisses the idea of being Prime Minister of the whole country, those who did not vote for him as well as his supporters.
Multi-millionaire businessmen should expect to be considered for tax treatment, it doesn't make the government bloody Nazis like you said.
If you equate farmers with multi-millionaire businessmen then frankly you are fucking ignorant.
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
"Trump Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who actually believe Trump. If you believe him, you are deranged.
In the same way "Musk Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who believe and/or worship Musk.
You suffer from both.
Do not go blaming Europe for this. Or Mandelson. The blame for this betrayal goes to those who support Trump and the GOP. It was obvious something like this was going to happen after the GOP's aid delay last year.
Shame on you.
Oh do fuck off. Every morning you’re on here trying to make things personal. In case you hadn’t noticed, I have a shitload more at stake than most on here when it comes to Ukraine.
You do have more at stake. Which makes your position so inexplicable.
But don't think that you're the only person who cares for Ukraine.
You have a choice: support Trump, Vance, Musk etc, or support Ukraine. The tightrope you have been walking for a year snapped months ago.
You fail to explain your position in a logical manner. You fail to criticise Trump, Musk et al when they sell Ukraine (or literally try to but it...). or parrot Russian lines.
So you get a lot of pushback. Good. Perhaps you should listen to what people are telling you.
If you care for Ukraine, that is.
So doubling down rather than fucking off.
I guess it’s me that fucks off then. If @rcs1000 and @TheScreamingEagles wish to run a site where every polite opinion that isn’t a severe case of Trump Derangement Sydrome is met with a torrent of personal abuse, even at six o’clock in the morning, then it’s not a site that interests me.
See you all in a few months. Maybe.
You are leaving because your position as being a Trump-Putin shill and being pro-Ukraine is totally illogical and unsustainable. You're tying yourself in ever more ridiculous knots. Let's not pretend you are leaving on the moral high ground. It was entirely predictable what a Trump win would mean for Ukrane.
Just my theory about the disorganised US administration who seem to be speaking with several voices at once. Okay then, Donald has been told he has only 2 years to live and is in a rush to do everything. Hence the chaos. It must be a nightmare for Rubio who cannot know what is coming next. Problem is we and the media pay too much attention to what Trump says on Wednesday, by Friday it has either changed or been forgotten. Tariffs probably will not happen. Maybe better to simply ignore what he says instead of trying to analyse this and that and tying ourselves up in knots.
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
"Trump Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who actually believe Trump. If you believe him, you are deranged.
In the same way "Musk Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who believe and/or worship Musk.
You suffer from both.
Do not go blaming Europe for this. Or Mandelson. The blame for this betrayal goes to those who support Trump and the GOP. It was obvious something like this was going to happen after the GOP's aid delay last year.
Shame on you.
Oh do fuck off. Every morning you’re on here trying to make things personal. In case you hadn’t noticed, I have a shitload more at stake than most on here when it comes to Ukraine.
You do have more at stake. Which makes your position so inexplicable.
But don't think that you're the only person who cares for Ukraine.
You have a choice: support Trump, Vance, Musk etc, or support Ukraine. The tightrope you have been walking for a year snapped months ago.
You fail to explain your position in a logical manner. You fail to criticise Trump, Musk et al when they sell Ukraine (or literally try to but it...). or parrot Russian lines.
So you get a lot of pushback. Good. Perhaps you should listen to what people are telling you.
If you care for Ukraine, that is.
So doubling down rather than fucking off.
I guess it’s me that fucks off then. If @rcs1000 and @TheScreamingEagles wish to run a site where every polite opinion that isn’t a severe case of Trump Derangement Sydrome is met with a torrent of personal abuse, even at six o’clock in the morning, then it’s not a site that interests me.
See you all in a few months. Maybe.
@Sandpit Good luck to you and I hope you return one day.
I did ask that poster, who claims to be a very happy person, what he got from being a shit to complete strangers on the internet.
Comments
Trump is the voice that matters; and his comment overnight are an abandonment of Ukraine. Worse; a betrayal. As when Trump parrots Putin's lies; the GOP base and MAGA nutcases will hear those lies and believe them, making it harder for them to support Ukraine even if they wanted.
But you refuse to see that, and instead invent increasingly ludicrous scenarios. You are the character in the middle of the fire saying "Everything's fine!"
I have asked you before what you see which makes you so positive about the US regime's actions wrt Ukraine. It's clear you don't see anything, and have just assembled a massive pile of hopium.
I don't think that really fits. Our constitution is an accretion over many centuries; there's no one founding document, or even moment within the lifetime of some group of "founders".
"Others I might have forgotten" pretty well says it all.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5151545-trump-ukraine-zelensky-war-russia/
..“I think I have the power to end this war. And I think it’s going very well,” Trump told reporters at Mar-a-Lago on the heels of the meeting between U.S. and Russian officials.
“But today I heard, ‘Oh, well we weren’t invited.’ Well, you’ve been there for three years,” Trump continued. “You should’ve ended it in three years. You should have never started it. You could have made a deal. I could have made a deal for Ukraine that would have given them almost all of the land, and no people would have been killed, and no city would have been demolished and not one dome would have been knocked down. But they chose not to do it that way.”
Trump went on to rail against former President Biden as “so pathetic” before again criticizing Zelensky.
“Look, you have leadership — and I like him personally. He’s fine. But I don’t care about personally. I care about getting the job done. You have leadership now that’s allowed a war to go on that should have never even happened, even without the United States.”..
He hasn’t lost the war
America has betrayed its allies
They are under pressure to find interesting copy quickly. So they go to their local contacts (who are usually politically active) who recommend some individuals.
The BBC should do a background check but often they just take their contact’s word for it that these are “ordinary” and Palestinians
Trump and Vance have broken the Western Alliance that has kept the peace (ish) in the world since the end of the Second World War.
He has betrayed his country’s friends and allies.
HP is integrating AI into printers.
https://x.com/chrisman/status/1892004877989023918
Imagine the possibilities for increasing user frustration.
As stands, Trump will have broken the Western alliance, will probably push a number of natural US allies into the Chinese orbit, and will screw the US (and most Western economies over) via the introduction of tariffs.
The TDS is from those who are making themselves hyperbolically mad on a daily basis. Whereas the the rest of us are just getting on with life and commenting on things as we see it. I must have said 100 times by now that I don’t support Trump, it’s just that I don’t drive myself crazy thinking about him every waking minute.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to respond through diplomatic channels to put their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if the US wants to be the peace broker here they’ll need to get a much better understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
NATO costs the US money, and we don't pay enough. And he thinks he can make money from a deal with Russia, while cutting off the cost of aid to Ukraine.
Plus his fondness for autocrats, as he thinks he should exercise the same kind of unchecked power.
If even then.
In the same way "Musk Derangement Syndrome" best fits those who believe and/or worship Musk.
You suffer from both.
Do not go blaming Europe for this. Or Mandelson. The blame for this betrayal goes to those who support Trump and the GOP. It was obvious something like this was going to happen after the GOP's aid delay last year.
Shame on you.
I don't think you appreciate the extent to which he's written off Ukraine.
I also think you're overestimating the influence of Rubio and Kellogg.
😂
https://www.justsecurity.org/107087/tracker-litigation-legal-challenges-trump-administration/
But don't think that you're the only person who cares for Ukraine.
You have a choice: support Trump, Vance, Musk etc, or support Ukraine. The tightrope you have been walking for a year snapped months ago.
You fail to explain your position in a logical manner. You fail to criticise Trump, Musk et al when they sell Ukraine (or literally try to but it...). or parrot Russian lines.
So you get a lot of pushback. Good. Perhaps you should listen to what people are telling you.
If you care for Ukraine, that is.
I forgot Bagehot, of course
He and his backers care only about money.
Geopolitical worries, strategic concerns, the US’s long term reputation and standing with its friends and allies are all intangible assets that can be sold to the highest bidder.
If it costs him nothing personally bu it makes him money, then that is fine.
FWIW, I thank Ivanka and Jared have seen that and got the hell out of Dodge
Whatever the west says, it will be how any deal is sold to the Russian people e.g. Ukraine being punished for starting the invasion and the 'illegitimate' Zelensky being removed from office etc, etc.
He’ll do good things and bad things as President, and I’ll call each as I see fit.
On Ukraine, other countries need to
respond through diplomatic channels to put
their viewpoints accross as they see fit. I agree with Rubio meeting with Lavrov, but if
the US wants to be the peace broker here
they’ll need to get a much better
understanding of what the Ukranians (and Europeans) mean by an end to the war.
What you are missing is the US is not an honest peace broker
Russia wants to be seen as a Great Power, treating on an equal footing with the US.
Trump will give them that. He thinks he can force Ukraine to accept a bad peace and that Europe won’t stand up for them.
He may be right. I hope he is not.
What you are missing is the US is not an honest peace broker
Russia wants to be seen as a Great Power, treating on an equal footing with the US.
Trump will give them that. He thinks he can force Ukraine to accept a bad peace and that Europe won’t stand up for them.
He may be right. I hope he is not.
I guess it’s me that fucks off then. If @rcs1000 and @TheScreamingEagles wish to run a site where every polite opinion that isn’t a severe case of Trump Derangement Sydrome is met with a torrent of personal abuse, even at six o’clock in the morning, then it’s not a site that interests me.
See you all in a few months. Maybe.
Trump claiming Ukraine started the war just shows the nature of the disaster unfolding. Maybe he mispoke, but it demonstrates his infantile effort to barge into that war. No prepared groundwork. No common ground with allies. Just a solo effort to be the centre stage of world affairs. A stage that is a minefield.
The Russians however risk seriously overplaying their hand. They need a truce. Badly. Their supply lines are being broken. They are currently being pushed back across various fronts. Their oil infrastructure is in flames. If Trump thinks they aren't playing his game, he is likely to throw a temper tantrum - and screw them over. He could pause his "peace" efforts for six months. That is going to be a painful period for Russia if he backs off.
However, as a member of the legal profession surely there is also a duty on Starmer to ensure those who work with him are properly described, in the same way as a doctor has a duty to report fellow "doctors" if it transpires they might not have elementary competence. Particularly now it has come to light is Starmer not in real jepardy if he does not remove the whip from Reynolds with all convenient haste ?
And when Trump took over, I took a step back. You know, the people voted for him, and I want the best for the US and the world.
When he allowed Ukraine to fire missiles into Russia and threatened additional sanctions if there was no peace (albeit... errr... what additional sanctions could there be...) And then there seemed to be a radical, but ultimately necessary, look at US government spending.
Well, I was cheered.
But that cheer has turned to disappointment, and in turn to fear.
You know the Greenland thing... I mean whatever. And the Gulf of America... Yeah OK...
I'm still feeling OK about the Trump Presidency at this point.
But then there was the bonkers threats of tariffs on Canada.
Then there was the complete misunderstanding of how VAT works.
And what is -essentially- punishing the US's friends while giving succour to Russia.
Most recently it has been Trump's behaviour with regards to Ukraine, and in particular the deliberate choice of words around Ukraine having somehow caused the invasion.
Suddenly it seems like Trump Derangement Symptom is normalizing his behavior.
But also try to think about what I've said. I simply don't understand your position. which appears utterly contradictory.
TheAndrew Tate thing shows the Trump cabal for what it is. The fact that there is someone in the administration who thinks Tate is a goody and should be helped, interfering in the legal process of another ostensible ally is nuts in itself, the fact that the administration are supporting this position is grim.
The policy has always been to hammer any Tory Minister to get more but to swivel to Labour and the LDs to stop them doing any more harm that their instincts demand. Now it is no doubt because the entire Defra Team is clueless about agriculture that we are where we are. The NFU has made a BAD counter proposal which has been rejected out of hand. ( I imagine there is some relief in that from the NFU team. ) The NFU now has to say, stay legal etc, mainly to protect the industry as a whole. I imagine the NFU hope, such as it is, is that their counter proposal will still be taken up when Reeves is finally sacked.
But sadly, today to me as a retired farmer the old saying, NFU, NFUse seems all too true.
Of course the industry will win and Labour and their Vichy Regime supporters in the LDs will be out of power for 50 years after this. But that is what happens when a Prime Minister comes to power who decides to lead the country for his own partisan interests and dismisses the idea of being Prime Minister of the whole country, those who did not vote for him as well as his supporters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_impeachment_of_Donald_Trump
Which is a shame, as I do think that MM's correct that Russia is in deep do-do. But Putin may get a political victory where his military have utterly failed. And that's a really bad precedent for the future.
Mr. Sandpit, I hope you stick around.
Sandpit, you claimed Matt Gaetz would be a good choice for Attorney General. That, among other examples, suggests you are a Trump supporter because only the most hardcore Trump supporters ever thought that. No neutral observer looked at Gaetz and thought he was a good choice.
People who talked of Trump Derangement Syndrome missed the warning signing that Trump term #2 threatens that democratic order - he always preferred autocrats to other democratic leaders; January 5th; talk of dictatorship on day 1. All the warning signs were there.
He has proceeded in power by ignoring Congress and acting like a King. He is betraying his allies and cosying up to authoritarians like Putin.
People still clinging onto the notion he is just a normal politician getting things done are the ones who are deranged.
NEW THREAD
Imagine if a politician you didn't like had said what Trump had said. Let's say Starmer on taking office had started repeating Kremlin propaganda, had said
'Ukraine shouldn't have started the war'
'Ukraine will have to give up territory'
'Ukraine won't join NATO'
'First Ukraine has to pay us hundreds of billions they owe us for the support we've given them'
'Let's stop the sanctions'
and so on
I think you would have been the first to condemn him in very strong terms. But with Trump - no comment.
Or take your cheering of cutting USAID to Ukraine, falsely claiming that 90% of it went to the 'Washington swamp' and repeating that again and again even after being shown at least twice how that money had been spent in Ukraine.
The western Alliance is at an end. We should not rush into some botched job of a replacement but we certainly need some deep thinking about what comes next.
It is families where the kids WORK for no pay during school holidays; it is families where the kids have to help milk the cows before school and after school, why, becuase it is part of their future. This is an evil government.
I’m convinced now, that Trump, Musk, Gabbard, Kennedy, Hegseth, Vance, etc. are
(a) evil,
(b) fascists.
And, by that, I mean real fascists, the sort who leave millions of dead in their wake.
They want to carve the world up with their fellow kleptocrats.
In the end, the USA will be a huge loser from this.
The current pivot on twitter is "if only the Dems hadn't been so woke, they could have prevented this from happening".
Kind of encouraging, because it suggests people are starting to find Trump impossible to defend. There is a line.
Edit: something very odd going on with quotes
Z. hasn't exactly been a paragon of virtue when it comes to dealing with his domestic opponents and since his political party/pub quiz team fell apart he hasn't been shy about cutting deals with pro-Russian politicians like Boyko to get legislation through the Rada so I don't know why he was a blushing virgin about fitting Hunter up.
Personally I would chuck Americans out and rent all teh bases to China , that would give spacehopper something to dribble over.
Okay then, Donald has been told he has only 2 years to live and is in a rush to do everything. Hence the chaos. It must be a nightmare for Rubio who cannot know what is coming next.
Problem is we and the media pay too much attention to what Trump says on Wednesday, by Friday it has either changed or been forgotten. Tariffs probably will not happen. Maybe better to simply ignore what he says instead of trying to analyse this and that and tying ourselves up in knots.
I did ask that poster, who claims to be a very happy person, what he got from being a shit to complete strangers on the internet.
Amazingly got an insult back