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I am now convinced Badenoch is safe in the short term at least – politicalbetting.com

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  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,619

    So was anything of any real substance agreed at the special emergency European summit, or was it just a chance for a bunch of leaders to look like they've any idea what's going on or indeed involved in any way?

    Starmer is right but I can’t emphasise enough: all the options now—deployments to Ukraine, heavily arming Ukraine if no sec guarantees or if no deal & Trump cuts aid, or, less likely but entirely possible, US pullback from Europe—are going to cost a lot of money. No cheap pathways now.

    https://bsky.app/profile/shashj.bsky.social/post/3liflnyesls2u
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,220
    edited February 17
    Gossip.

    Has anyone well-connected at Westminster heard this one that came my way, wrt tensions around Trump?

    Paraphrased from a witness:

    A Reform MP (we think, Lee Anderson) was challenged in a corridor by a Tory Whip, on his willingness to perform fellatio on the current President. Anderson retorted with ‘Socialist c**t’, to which came the reply, ‘Sorry, I couldn’t hear you with Musk’s d**k in your mouth.’ Both MPs quickly passed on in silence when they realised they had a small audience.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starting to think Corbyn was quite hard done by 👀

    "I would rather be governed by someone who would imprison or kill me if I criticised him than be governed by Keir Starmer"

    More from Jeremy Clarkson as we get it.

    The right in the UK has lost its mind.

    Tax dodging farmers like Clarkson really do hate Starmer.
    I think all farmers hate Starmer and Rachel From Accounts, along with most people who run businesses. The reason why privately held businesses (including farms) were inheritance tax free was because it enabled the next generation to continue the business as a viable entity, whereas if some c*ntish government made up of fuckwits who don't understand business insist on taxing the asset value causing it to become unviable.

    If the next generation decide not to do the hard work or take any further risks and realise the asset value and sell up then they pay tax in the form of CGT.

    There we are, thick people, I have explained why the IHT for family farms and private businesses is iniquitous and will damage the country generally.
    The problem is that farm land is now an IHT dodgy as demonstrated by Dyson and to a less extent Mr Clarkson who bought the land first and then discovered a decent idea for a TV series second.

    So the ideal solution is to work out how to solve things in a way that allows the farm to continue while the IHT dodgers get captured - problem is HMRC isn’t clever enough to do that so they implemented a different solution.
    I completely agree. Farms have been used as tax havens by some, but the percentage is tiny. HMRC could easily put in rules to distinguish between proper working farms and those that have been used as tax havens, but the current government would rather hammer farmers because they don't generally vote Labour.

    I would prefer them to tax people with massive public sector pension pots, or better still silver-spooned millionaire city lawyers and accountants that hide behind dodgy LLP structures where they pretend to be "partners" and "self employed" where most of them couldn't start a company for themselves if their featherbedded life depended on it.
    Starmer won’t tax public sector Labour voters or his fellow lawyers more nor will Rachel from accounts tax her own.

    Tory and Reform voting farmers and small business owners and pensioners are fair game though
    Poor needy pensioners. What with their incomes continually being raided to fund inflation-busting handouts to the under-65s, I don't know how they survive.

    Oh. Wait...
    Pensioners on just state pension and incomes less than minimum wage have had their winter fuel allowance cut by this awful government
    Good. It was an awful policy introduced by Brown. Good riddance.

    Cold weather payments still exist for those who need them and are eligible for them.
    A tiny amount not consistent while more low income pensioners succumb to pneumonia also adding to pressure on NHS
    Actually infants are more likely to succumb to pneumonia than pensioners of any age.

    So if you were to do the policy based on need, then it universally being granted to all infants would make more sense.

    But infants don't vote.
    Infants likely have 2 parents on at least minimum wage and probably average wage or more paying their heating bills.

    Pensioners on just state pension with no winter fuel allowance and widows or a widower have 1 below minimum wage income to pay their winter heating bills
    Do you support single parents on benefits getting winter fuel payments? it isn't an unusual situation.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,091
    AnneJGP said:

    People will start avoiding plane travel soon. How many does that make?
    Are there statistically more incidents or are we just noticing incidents because? Very important difference.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,914
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    I have been occupied in stuff for a few days, and out of touch and a bit distant from the media and PB. Sorry if I am the millionth to have had this thought about Mr Trump.

    Trumps' downsides are obvious; and potentially deadly. I think he and his plutocratic oligarchy gangster friends are appalling.

    But he general awfulness does not arise from a situation in which he is by his character derogating from planetary perfection.

    Ask one question. There are lots of others but this will do. Trump has a plan for ending the Ukraine war. On 20th January, what was the plan of the EU/free Europe for ending it?

    There wasn't one. It was going to go on indefinitely.

    Ttrump's odd quality is that he will get other outfits to ask, and answer, questions they were very comfortable not answering on 20th January. This is not all bad.

    The status quo ante from Biden and Europe was to maintain pressure on Russia until it buckled. By and large this also had the support of Ukraine itself.
    If this is true and effective I will be delighted to see Europe continue to put it into effect. USA and Russia talks can't tell Ukraine or Europe waght to do.

    My own tentative view is that if that was the plan it wasn't working, and must be made to work if it can. But I think the real deal as on 20th January was a slowly losing attrition continuation without a further future in sight. I would be very pleased to be wrong.
    The plan was based on US support, which looks like it no longer exists.

    Now Trump goes into talks having already conceded that the U.S. is no longer willing to support Ukrainian defence efforts.

    This is the reality that emerged in the last 48 hours.

    As it happens, Trump has also conceded on bilateral talks (ie removing Ukraine and Europe from negotiations). Further, he has ruled out NATO support for Ukraine too.

    So it’s 3-0 to Russia right now.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,408
    TimS said:

    ohnotnow said:

    The top table of European politics:

    image

    Giorgia Meloni is the only one who has had the decency to dress up like a WW1 photo-op. Italians - always so stylish.

    It would be fascinating to be a fly on the wall. Who’s the talker that fills all the awkward gaps (I reckon Macron)? Who’s the contrarian always challenging what the others are saying (Meloni? Tusk?). Who’s the quiet studied one that everyone turns to when they want to know if they’re in agreement (UvdL)? Where does Starmer fit in this?
    Well, someone's got to make sure there's enough tepid water on the table. French tepid water, obviously, but still. It's a big job at the top table.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,914

    AnneJGP said:

    People will start avoiding plane travel soon. How many does that make?
    Are there statistically more incidents or are we just noticing incidents because? Very important difference.
    I’d love to see some data on this.
    I just had a mate who is due to travel to the U.S. message me to say he is anxious to do so.
  • This time it will be Britain, France and Poland.

    The original allies. This time, I hope we don't let Poland down.

    There was little we could either in 1939 or 1945 to help as the French were not prepared to invade Germany to aid Poland. And yet history suggests that if they had it would have caused Germany real issues in the West.
    Could WW2 have been won in 6 weeks (2-minute video from The Rest is History)
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fJDqkrGvits
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,914
    Nigelb said:

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1891572283161944433

    On Trade, I have decided, for purposes of Fairness, that I will charge a RECIPROCAL Tariff meaning, whatever Countries charge the United States of America, we will charge them - No more, no less!

    For purposes of this United States Policy, we will consider Countries that use the VAT System, which is far more punitive than a Tariff, to be similar to that of a Tariff. Sending merchandise, product, or anything by any other name through another Country, for purposes of unfairly harming America, will not be accepted. In addition, we will make provision for subsidies provided by Countries in order to take Economic advantage of the United States. Likewise, provisions will be made for Nonmonetary Tariffs and Trade Barriers that some Countries charge in order to keep our product out of their domain or, if they do not even let U.S. businesses operate. We are able to accurately determine the cost of these Nonmonetary Trade Barriers. It is fair to all, no other Country can complain and, in some cases, if a Country feels that the United States would be getting too high a Tariff, all they have to do is reduce or terminate their Tariff against us. There are no Tariffs if you manufacture or build your product in the United States.

    For many years, the U.S. has been treated unfairly by other Countries, both friend and foe. This System will immediately bring Fairness and Prosperity back into the previously complex and unfair System of Trade. America has helped many Countries throughout the years, at great financial cost. It is now time that these Countries remember this, and treat us fairly – A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD FOR AMERICAN WORKERS. I have instructed my Secretary of State, Secretary of Commerce, Secretary of the Treasury, and United States Trade Representative (USTR) to do all work necessary to deliver RECIPROCITY to our System of Trade!

    We have been warning for years that Trump sees VAT as a tariff. This is not new.
    Trump is an ignoramus, who will do us enormous harm, and william is celebrating the fact.
    Who is “we” in William’s post, anyway?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,384
    edited February 17

    AnneJGP said:

    People will start avoiding plane travel soon. How many does that make?
    Are there statistically more incidents or are we just noticing incidents because? Very important difference.
    Lots of variety in the accidents, would love to see how this one unfolded.

    Post-Grenfell, the news channels reported every fire in a block of flats showing just how common it was. Eventually they cottoned on to this and stopped reporting them.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,641
    AnneJGP said:

    People will start avoiding plane travel soon. How many does that make?
    They ought to avoid car travel if they were rational.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,216
    Trump all over the place on tariffs. It's like he doesn't know his own mind and its whirling chaos.


    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump

    On Trade, I have decided, for purposes of Fairness, that I will charge a RECIPROCAL Tariff meaning, whatever Countries charge the United States of America, we will charge them - No more, no less!

    For purposes of this United States Policy, we will consider Countries that use the VAT System, which is far more punitive than a Tariff, to be similar to that of a Tariff
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,622
    MattW said:

    Gossip.

    Has anyone well-connected at Westminster heard this one that came my way, wrt tensions around Trump?

    Paraphrased from a witness:

    A Reform MP (we think, Lee Anderson) was challenged in a corridor by a Tory Whip, on his willingness to perform fellatio on the current President. Anderson retorted with ‘Socialist c**t’, to which came the reply, ‘Sorry, I couldn’t hear you with Musk’s d**k in your mouth.’ Both MPs quickly passed on in silence when they realised they had a small audience.

    Ridiculous* comment.

    As if something as small as Musk's dick would muffle the sound so as to make it incomprehensible.

    *no pun intended, for once.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,613
    edited February 17
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starting to think Corbyn was quite hard done by 👀

    "I would rather be governed by someone who would imprison or kill me if I criticised him than be governed by Keir Starmer"

    More from Jeremy Clarkson as we get it.

    The right in the UK has lost its mind.

    Tax dodging farmers like Clarkson really do hate Starmer.
    I think all farmers hate Starmer and Rachel From Accounts, along with most people who run businesses. The reason why privately held businesses (including farms) were inheritance tax free was because it enabled the next generation to continue the business as a viable entity, whereas if some c*ntish government made up of fuckwits who don't understand business insist on taxing the asset value causing it to become unviable.

    If the next generation decide not to do the hard work or take any further risks and realise the asset value and sell up then they pay tax in the form of CGT.

    There we are, thick people, I have explained why the IHT for family farms and private businesses is iniquitous and will damage the country generally.
    The problem is that farm land is now an IHT dodgy as demonstrated by Dyson and to a less extent Mr Clarkson who bought the land first and then discovered a decent idea for a TV series second.

    So the ideal solution is to work out how to solve things in a way that allows the farm to continue while the IHT dodgers get captured - problem is HMRC isn’t clever enough to do that so they implemented a different solution.
    I completely agree. Farms have been used as tax havens by some, but the percentage is tiny. HMRC could easily put in rules to distinguish between proper working farms and those that have been used as tax havens, but the current government would rather hammer farmers because they don't generally vote Labour.

    I would prefer them to tax people with massive public sector pension pots, or better still silver-spooned millionaire city lawyers and accountants that hide behind dodgy LLP structures where they pretend to be "partners" and "self employed" where most of them couldn't start a company for themselves if their featherbedded life depended on it.
    Starmer won’t tax public sector Labour voters or his fellow lawyers more nor will Rachel from accounts tax her own.

    Tory and Reform voting farmers and small business owners and pensioners are fair game though
    Poor needy pensioners. What with their incomes continually being raided to fund inflation-busting handouts to the under-65s, I don't know how they survive.

    Oh. Wait...
    Pensioners on just state pension and incomes less than minimum wage have had their winter fuel allowance cut by this awful government
    Good. It was an awful policy introduced by Brown. Good riddance.

    Cold weather payments still exist for those who need them and are eligible for them.
    A tiny amount not consistent while more low income pensioners succumb to pneumonia also adding to pressure on NHS
    Actually infants are more likely to succumb to pneumonia than pensioners of any age.

    So if you were to do the policy based on need, then it universally being granted to all infants would make more sense.

    But infants don't vote.
    Infants likely have 2 parents on at least minimum wage and probably average wage or more paying their heating bills.

    Pensioners on just state pension with no winter fuel allowance and widows or a widower have 1 below minimum wage income to pay their winter heating bills
    Do you support single parents on benefits getting winter fuel payments? it isn't an unusual situation.
    Single parents on minimum wage plus child benefit and some universal credit will be earning more than a single pensioner on just state pension per week too and single parents will also likely be getting child maintenance payments from their ex partner
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169

    Trump all over the place on tariffs. It's like he doesn't know his own mind and its whirling chaos.


    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump

    On Trade, I have decided, for purposes of Fairness, that I will charge a RECIPROCAL Tariff meaning, whatever Countries charge the United States of America, we will charge them - No more, no less!

    For purposes of this United States Policy, we will consider Countries that use the VAT System, which is far more punitive than a Tariff, to be similar to that of a Tariff

    We should pull the plug on Diego Garcia if we get tariffed.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,914
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Gossip.

    Has anyone well-connected at Westminster heard this one that came my way, wrt tensions around Trump?

    Paraphrased from a witness:

    A Reform MP (we think, Lee Anderson) was challenged in a corridor by a Tory Whip, on his willingness to perform fellatio on the current President. Anderson retorted with ‘Socialist c**t’, to which came the reply, ‘Sorry, I couldn’t hear you with Musk’s d**k in your mouth.’ Both MPs quickly passed on in silence when they realised they had a small audience.

    Ridiculous* comment.

    As if something as small as Musk's dick would muffle the sound so as to make it incomprehensible.

    *no pun intended, for once.
    Someone should ask Lee Anderson whether the Internet rumour about Musk’s penis (botched enlargement surgery) is correct.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starting to think Corbyn was quite hard done by 👀

    "I would rather be governed by someone who would imprison or kill me if I criticised him than be governed by Keir Starmer"

    More from Jeremy Clarkson as we get it.

    The right in the UK has lost its mind.

    Tax dodging farmers like Clarkson really do hate Starmer.
    I think all farmers hate Starmer and Rachel From Accounts, along with most people who run businesses. The reason why privately held businesses (including farms) were inheritance tax free was because it enabled the next generation to continue the business as a viable entity, whereas if some c*ntish government made up of fuckwits who don't understand business insist on taxing the asset value causing it to become unviable.

    If the next generation decide not to do the hard work or take any further risks and realise the asset value and sell up then they pay tax in the form of CGT.

    There we are, thick people, I have explained why the IHT for family farms and private businesses is iniquitous and will damage the country generally.
    The problem is that farm land is now an IHT dodgy as demonstrated by Dyson and to a less extent Mr Clarkson who bought the land first and then discovered a decent idea for a TV series second.

    So the ideal solution is to work out how to solve things in a way that allows the farm to continue while the IHT dodgers get captured - problem is HMRC isn’t clever enough to do that so they implemented a different solution.
    I completely agree. Farms have been used as tax havens by some, but the percentage is tiny. HMRC could easily put in rules to distinguish between proper working farms and those that have been used as tax havens, but the current government would rather hammer farmers because they don't generally vote Labour.

    I would prefer them to tax people with massive public sector pension pots, or better still silver-spooned millionaire city lawyers and accountants that hide behind dodgy LLP structures where they pretend to be "partners" and "self employed" where most of them couldn't start a company for themselves if their featherbedded life depended on it.
    Starmer won’t tax public sector Labour voters or his fellow lawyers more nor will Rachel from accounts tax her own.

    Tory and Reform voting farmers and small business owners and pensioners are fair game though
    Poor needy pensioners. What with their incomes continually being raided to fund inflation-busting handouts to the under-65s, I don't know how they survive.

    Oh. Wait...
    Pensioners on just state pension and incomes less than minimum wage have had their winter fuel allowance cut by this awful government
    Good. It was an awful policy introduced by Brown. Good riddance.

    Cold weather payments still exist for those who need them and are eligible for them.
    A tiny amount not consistent while more low income pensioners succumb to pneumonia also adding to pressure on NHS
    Actually infants are more likely to succumb to pneumonia than pensioners of any age.

    So if you were to do the policy based on need, then it universally being granted to all infants would make more sense.

    But infants don't vote.
    Infants likely have 2 parents on at least minimum wage and probably average wage or more paying their heating bills.

    Pensioners on just state pension with no winter fuel allowance and widows or a widower have 1 below minimum wage income to pay their winter heating bills
    Do you support single parents on benefits getting winter fuel payments? it isn't an unusual situation.
    Single parents on minimum wage plus child benefit and some universal credit will be earning more than a single pensioner on just state pension per week too and single parents will also likely be getting child maintenance payments from their ex partner too
    But that's not an answer to the question.

    Answer the question!
    Answer the question!

    This isn't PMQ!

    *fascinated spectator to the tergiversation*
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,449
    tlg86 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    People will start avoiding plane travel soon. How many does that make?
    Are there statistically more incidents or are we just noticing incidents because? Very important difference.
    Lots of variety in the accidents, would love to see how this one unfolded.

    Post-Grenfell, the news channels reported every fire in a block of flats showing just how common it was. Eventually they cottoned on to this and stopped reporting them.
    I think this one is probably noteworthy, 80 passengers and a plane somehow on its roof yet with fairly light damage (???).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,216
    MattW said:

    Gossip.

    Has anyone well-connected at Westminster heard this one that came my way, wrt tensions around Trump?

    Paraphrased from a witness:

    A Reform MP (we think, Lee Anderson) was challenged in a corridor by a Tory Whip, on his willingness to perform fellatio on the current President. Anderson retorted with ‘Socialist c**t’, to which came the reply, ‘Sorry, I couldn’t hear you with Musk’s d**k in your mouth.’ Both MPs quickly passed on in silence when they realised they had a small audience.

    Narrator: Lee Anderson was the office manager for a Labour MP for years, a party that is a member of the European Party of Socialists.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,613
    edited February 17
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starting to think Corbyn was quite hard done by 👀

    "I would rather be governed by someone who would imprison or kill me if I criticised him than be governed by Keir Starmer"

    More from Jeremy Clarkson as we get it.

    The right in the UK has lost its mind.

    Tax dodging farmers like Clarkson really do hate Starmer.
    I think all farmers hate Starmer and Rachel From Accounts, along with most people who run businesses. The reason why privately held businesses (including farms) were inheritance tax free was because it enabled the next generation to continue the business as a viable entity, whereas if some c*ntish government made up of fuckwits who don't understand business insist on taxing the asset value causing it to become unviable.

    If the next generation decide not to do the hard work or take any further risks and realise the asset value and sell up then they pay tax in the form of CGT.

    There we are, thick people, I have explained why the IHT for family farms and private businesses is iniquitous and will damage the country generally.
    The problem is that farm land is now an IHT dodgy as demonstrated by Dyson and to a less extent Mr Clarkson who bought the land first and then discovered a decent idea for a TV series second.

    So the ideal solution is to work out how to solve things in a way that allows the farm to continue while the IHT dodgers get captured - problem is HMRC isn’t clever enough to do that so they implemented a different solution.
    I completely agree. Farms have been used as tax havens by some, but the percentage is tiny. HMRC could easily put in rules to distinguish between proper working farms and those that have been used as tax havens, but the current government would rather hammer farmers because they don't generally vote Labour.

    I would prefer them to tax people with massive public sector pension pots, or better still silver-spooned millionaire city lawyers and accountants that hide behind dodgy LLP structures where they pretend to be "partners" and "self employed" where most of them couldn't start a company for themselves if their featherbedded life depended on it.
    Starmer won’t tax public sector Labour voters or his fellow lawyers more nor will Rachel from accounts tax her own.

    Tory and Reform voting farmers and small business owners and pensioners are fair game though
    Poor needy pensioners. What with their incomes continually being raided to fund inflation-busting handouts to the under-65s, I don't know how they survive.

    Oh. Wait...
    Pensioners on just state pension and incomes less than minimum wage have had their winter fuel allowance cut by this awful government
    Good. It was an awful policy introduced by Brown. Good riddance.

    Cold weather payments still exist for those who need them and are eligible for them.
    A tiny amount not consistent while more low income pensioners succumb to pneumonia also adding to pressure on NHS
    Actually infants are more likely to succumb to pneumonia than pensioners of any age.

    So if you were to do the policy based on need, then it universally being granted to all infants would make more sense.

    But infants don't vote.
    Infants likely have 2 parents on at least minimum wage and probably average wage or more paying their heating bills.

    Pensioners on just state pension with no winter fuel allowance and widows or a widower have 1 below minimum wage income to pay their winter heating bills
    Do you support single parents on benefits getting winter fuel payments? it isn't an unusual situation.
    Single parents on minimum wage plus child benefit and some universal credit will be earning more than a single pensioner on just state pension per week too and single parents will also likely be getting child maintenance payments from their ex partner too
    But that's not an answer to the question.

    Answer the question!
    Answer the question!

    This isn't PMQ!

    *fascinated spectator to the tergiversation*
    Yes it is the answer to the question as single parents will normally be on a higher income than single state pensioners. While unless they have an infant child with them will also be less at risk of pneumonia in winter in their household than the pensioner
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398
    Pro_Rata said:

    tlg86 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    People will start avoiding plane travel soon. How many does that make?
    Are there statistically more incidents or are we just noticing incidents because? Very important difference.
    Lots of variety in the accidents, would love to see how this one unfolded.

    Post-Grenfell, the news channels reported every fire in a block of flats showing just how common it was. Eventually they cottoned on to this and stopped reporting them.
    I think this one is probably noteworthy, 80 passengers and a plane somehow on its roof yet with fairly light damage (???).
    Allegedly CNN has an expert talking about the explosive bolts holding the wings on, according to a chap on PPrune. Some mistake somewhere.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starting to think Corbyn was quite hard done by 👀

    "I would rather be governed by someone who would imprison or kill me if I criticised him than be governed by Keir Starmer"

    More from Jeremy Clarkson as we get it.

    The right in the UK has lost its mind.

    Tax dodging farmers like Clarkson really do hate Starmer.
    I think all farmers hate Starmer and Rachel From Accounts, along with most people who run businesses. The reason why privately held businesses (including farms) were inheritance tax free was because it enabled the next generation to continue the business as a viable entity, whereas if some c*ntish government made up of fuckwits who don't understand business insist on taxing the asset value causing it to become unviable.

    If the next generation decide not to do the hard work or take any further risks and realise the asset value and sell up then they pay tax in the form of CGT.

    There we are, thick people, I have explained why the IHT for family farms and private businesses is iniquitous and will damage the country generally.
    The problem is that farm land is now an IHT dodgy as demonstrated by Dyson and to a less extent Mr Clarkson who bought the land first and then discovered a decent idea for a TV series second.

    So the ideal solution is to work out how to solve things in a way that allows the farm to continue while the IHT dodgers get captured - problem is HMRC isn’t clever enough to do that so they implemented a different solution.
    I completely agree. Farms have been used as tax havens by some, but the percentage is tiny. HMRC could easily put in rules to distinguish between proper working farms and those that have been used as tax havens, but the current government would rather hammer farmers because they don't generally vote Labour.

    I would prefer them to tax people with massive public sector pension pots, or better still silver-spooned millionaire city lawyers and accountants that hide behind dodgy LLP structures where they pretend to be "partners" and "self employed" where most of them couldn't start a company for themselves if their featherbedded life depended on it.
    Starmer won’t tax public sector Labour voters or his fellow lawyers more nor will Rachel from accounts tax her own.

    Tory and Reform voting farmers and small business owners and pensioners are fair game though
    Poor needy pensioners. What with their incomes continually being raided to fund inflation-busting handouts to the under-65s, I don't know how they survive.

    Oh. Wait...
    Pensioners on just state pension and incomes less than minimum wage have had their winter fuel allowance cut by this awful government
    Good. It was an awful policy introduced by Brown. Good riddance.

    Cold weather payments still exist for those who need them and are eligible for them.
    A tiny amount not consistent while more low income pensioners succumb to pneumonia also adding to pressure on NHS
    Actually infants are more likely to succumb to pneumonia than pensioners of any age.

    So if you were to do the policy based on need, then it universally being granted to all infants would make more sense.

    But infants don't vote.
    Infants likely have 2 parents on at least minimum wage and probably average wage or more paying their heating bills.

    Pensioners on just state pension with no winter fuel allowance and widows or a widower have 1 below minimum wage income to pay their winter heating bills
    Do you support single parents on benefits getting winter fuel payments? it isn't an unusual situation.
    Single parents on minimum wage plus child benefit and some universal credit will be earning more than a single pensioner on just state pension per week too and single parents will also likely be getting child maintenance payments from their ex partner too
    But that's not an answer to the question.

    Answer the question!
    Answer the question!

    This isn't PMQ!

    *fascinated spectator to the tergiversation*
    Yes it is the answer to the question as single parents will normally be on a higher income than single state pensioners. While unless they have an infant child with them will also be less at risk of pneumonia in winter in their household than the pensioner
    The question was "Do you support single parents on benefits getting winter fuel payments?" That's about as useful an answer as a bucketful of frog spawn is at the moment.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,342
    TimS said:

    ohnotnow said:

    The top table of European politics:

    image

    Giorgia Meloni is the only one who has had the decency to dress up like a WW1 photo-op. Italians - always so stylish.

    It would be fascinating to be a fly on the wall. Who’s the talker that fills all the awkward gaps (I reckon Macron)? Who’s the contrarian always challenging what the others are saying (Meloni? Tusk?). Who’s the quiet studied one that everyone turns to when they want to know if they’re in agreement (UvdL)? Where does Starmer fit in this?
    Someone needs to be the minutes secretary.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,503
    Jonathan said:

    Starmer doing well in impossible circumstances. Hope all the wise heads of all parties are backing him. He’s become PM at arguably most difficult time since Churchill.

    Yes I was thinking this today.
    Cameron inherited the aftermath of a financial crisis, but an economy that was starting to recover. There was no external threat to match what the UK seems to be facing.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,216
    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,220
    An important case wrt Trump.

    A lawsuit questioning whether Musk's role in DOGE is constitutional.

    Hilariously, it's fallen to Judge Chutkan, who is outstanding and completely professional.

    Judge hearing arguments over Musk's authority to run DOGE defers ruling on restraining order
    Fourteen states are challenging the constitutionality of Elon Musk's role.


    ...
    Fourteen states filed a federal lawsuit Thursday alleging that Musk's "expansive authority" is in violation of the Appointments Clause of the U.S. Constitution, which calls for anyone deemed a "principal officer" of the U.S. government to be formally nominated by the president and confirmed by the U.S. Senate.

    The states are seeking a temporary restraining order to block Musk and DOGE from continuing their work, but U.S. District Court Judge Tanya Chutkan, at a hearing Friday, said that she wants a narrower request from the plaintiffs.


    This is the initial post; it is still in process aiui.
    https://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-oversaw-trumps-jan-6-case-hear-arguments/story?id=118840054
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,793
    edited February 17

    The top table of European politics:

    image

    Starmer looks happy. Quite a lot of late stage politicians prefer the appeal of gilded rooms full of world leaders when their popularity is crashing at home. It's a straw and he's grabbing it with gusto.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,117
    .
    MaxPB said:

    This time it will be Britain, France and Poland.

    The original allies. This time, I hope we don't let Poland down.

    Yup, there's no room for Germany in a European military alliance. They would rather appease Russia than deploy troop unfortunately which means they will drag their heels constantly.
    Let’s see who forms the new government post election, before we write them off.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,946

    The top table of European politics:

    image

    Starmer looks happy. Quite a lot of late stage politicians prefer the appeal of guilded rooms full of world leaders when their popularity is crashing at home. It's a straw and he's grabbing it with gusto.
    Starmers the new boy. He’s done well.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,793
    Jonathan said:

    The top table of European politics:

    image

    Starmer looks happy. Quite a lot of late stage politicians prefer the appeal of guilded rooms full of world leaders when their popularity is crashing at home. It's a straw and he's grabbing it with gusto.
    Starmers the new boy. He’s done well.
    On that we all agree. His career trajectory is extraordinary. Though perhaps it also says quite a lot about the type of person our systems tend to breed.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169
    Nigelb said:

    .

    MaxPB said:

    This time it will be Britain, France and Poland.

    The original allies. This time, I hope we don't let Poland down.

    Yup, there's no room for Germany in a European military alliance. They would rather appease Russia than deploy troop unfortunately which means they will drag their heels constantly.
    Let’s see who forms the new government post election, before we write them off.
    History is such that deploying German troops in Ukraine with the possibility of fighting Russians is very problematic.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 795
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starting to think Corbyn was quite hard done by 👀

    "I would rather be governed by someone who would imprison or kill me if I criticised him than be governed by Keir Starmer"

    More from Jeremy Clarkson as we get it.

    The right in the UK has lost its mind.

    Tax dodging farmers like Clarkson really do hate Starmer.
    I think all farmers hate Starmer and Rachel From Accounts, along with most people who run businesses. The reason why privately held businesses (including farms) were inheritance tax free was because it enabled the next generation to continue the business as a viable entity, whereas if some c*ntish government made up of fuckwits who don't understand business insist on taxing the asset value causing it to become unviable.

    If the next generation decide not to do the hard work or take any further risks and realise the asset value and sell up then they pay tax in the form of CGT.

    There we are, thick people, I have explained why the IHT for family farms and private businesses is iniquitous and will damage the country generally.
    The problem is that farm land is now an IHT dodgy as demonstrated by Dyson and to a less extent Mr Clarkson who bought the land first and then discovered a decent idea for a TV series second.

    So the ideal solution is to work out how to solve things in a way that allows the farm to continue while the IHT dodgers get captured - problem is HMRC isn’t clever enough to do that so they implemented a different solution.
    I completely agree. Farms have been used as tax havens by some, but the percentage is tiny. HMRC could easily put in rules to distinguish between proper working farms and those that have been used as tax havens, but the current government would rather hammer farmers because they don't generally vote Labour.

    I would prefer them to tax people with massive public sector pension pots, or better still silver-spooned millionaire city lawyers and accountants that hide behind dodgy LLP structures where they pretend to be "partners" and "self employed" where most of them couldn't start a company for themselves if their featherbedded life depended on it.
    Starmer won’t tax public sector Labour voters or his fellow lawyers more nor will Rachel from accounts tax her own.

    Tory and Reform voting farmers and small business owners and pensioners are fair game though
    Poor needy pensioners. What with their incomes continually being raided to fund inflation-busting handouts to the under-65s, I don't know how they survive.

    Oh. Wait...
    Pensioners on just state pension and incomes less than minimum wage have had their winter fuel allowance cut by this awful government
    Good. It was an awful policy introduced by Brown. Good riddance.

    Cold weather payments still exist for those who need them and are eligible for them.
    A tiny amount not consistent while more low income pensioners succumb to pneumonia also adding to pressure on NHS
    Actually infants are more likely to succumb to pneumonia than pensioners of any age.

    So if you were to do the policy based on need, then it universally being granted to all infants would make more sense.

    But infants don't vote.
    Infants likely have 2 parents on at least minimum wage and probably average wage or more paying their heating bills.

    Pensioners on just state pension with no winter fuel allowance and widows or a widower have 1 below minimum wage income to pay their winter heating bills
    Do you support single parents on benefits getting winter fuel payments? it isn't an unusual situation.
    Single parents on minimum wage plus child benefit and some universal credit will be earning more than a single pensioner on just state pension per week too and single parents will also likely be getting child maintenance payments from their ex partner too
    But that's not an answer to the question.

    Answer the question!
    Answer the question!

    This isn't PMQ!

    *fascinated spectator to the tergiversation*
    Yes it is the answer to the question as single parents will normally be on a higher income than single state pensioners. While unless they have an infant child with them will also be less at risk of pneumonia in winter in their household than the pensioner
    The question was "Do you support single parents on benefits getting winter fuel payments?" That's about as useful an answer as a bucketful of frog spawn is at the moment.
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starting to think Corbyn was quite hard done by 👀

    "I would rather be governed by someone who would imprison or kill me if I criticised him than be governed by Keir Starmer"

    More from Jeremy Clarkson as we get it.

    The right in the UK has lost its mind.

    Tax dodging farmers like Clarkson really do hate Starmer.
    I think all farmers hate Starmer and Rachel From Accounts, along with most people who run businesses. The reason why privately held businesses (including farms) were inheritance tax free was because it enabled the next generation to continue the business as a viable entity, whereas if some c*ntish government made up of fuckwits who don't understand business insist on taxing the asset value causing it to become unviable.

    If the next generation decide not to do the hard work or take any further risks and realise the asset value and sell up then they pay tax in the form of CGT.

    There we are, thick people, I have explained why the IHT for family farms and private businesses is iniquitous and will damage the country generally.
    The problem is that farm land is now an IHT dodgy as demonstrated by Dyson and to a less extent Mr Clarkson who bought the land first and then discovered a decent idea for a TV series second.

    So the ideal solution is to work out how to solve things in a way that allows the farm to continue while the IHT dodgers get captured - problem is HMRC isn’t clever enough to do that so they implemented a different solution.
    I completely agree. Farms have been used as tax havens by some, but the percentage is tiny. HMRC could easily put in rules to distinguish between proper working farms and those that have been used as tax havens, but the current government would rather hammer farmers because they don't generally vote Labour.

    I would prefer them to tax people with massive public sector pension pots, or better still silver-spooned millionaire city lawyers and accountants that hide behind dodgy LLP structures where they pretend to be "partners" and "self employed" where most of them couldn't start a company for themselves if their featherbedded life depended on it.
    Starmer won’t tax public sector Labour voters or his fellow lawyers more nor will Rachel from accounts tax her own.

    Tory and Reform voting farmers and small business owners and pensioners are fair game though
    Poor needy pensioners. What with their incomes continually being raided to fund inflation-busting handouts to the under-65s, I don't know how they survive.

    Oh. Wait...
    Pensioners on just state pension and incomes less than minimum wage have had their winter fuel allowance cut by this awful government
    Good. It was an awful policy introduced by Brown. Good riddance.

    Cold weather payments still exist for those who need them and are eligible for them.
    A tiny amount not consistent while more low income pensioners succumb to pneumonia also adding to pressure on NHS
    Actually infants are more likely to succumb to pneumonia than pensioners of any age.

    So if you were to do the policy based on need, then it universally being granted to all infants would make more sense.

    But infants don't vote.
    Infants likely have 2 parents on at least minimum wage and probably average wage or more paying their heating bills.

    Pensioners on just state pension with no winter fuel allowance and widows or a widower have 1 below minimum wage income to pay their winter heating bills
    Do you support single parents on benefits getting winter fuel payments? it isn't an unusual situation.
    Single parents on minimum wage plus child benefit and some universal credit will be earning more than a single pensioner on just state pension per week too and single parents will also likely be getting child maintenance payments from their ex partner too
    But that's not an answer to the question.

    Answer the question!
    Answer the question!

    This isn't PMQ!

    *fascinated spectator to the tergiversation*
    Yes it is the answer to the question as single parents will normally be on a higher income than single state pensioners. While unless they have an infant child with them will also be less at risk of pneumonia in winter in their household than the pensioner
    The question was "Do you support single parents on benefits getting winter fuel payments?" That's about as useful an answer as a bucketful of frog spawn is at the moment.
    Single parents on more than the state pension?
    Is that universal credit which includes housing benefit or net of housing costs?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,946

    Jonathan said:

    The top table of European politics:

    image

    Starmer looks happy. Quite a lot of late stage politicians prefer the appeal of guilded rooms full of world leaders when their popularity is crashing at home. It's a straw and he's grabbing it with gusto.
    Starmers the new boy. He’s done well.
    On that we all agree. His career trajectory is extraordinary. Though perhaps it also says quite a lot about the type of person our systems tend to breed.
    Better than the US
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,395
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    MaxPB said:

    This time it will be Britain, France and Poland.

    The original allies. This time, I hope we don't let Poland down.

    Yup, there's no room for Germany in a European military alliance. They would rather appease Russia than deploy troop unfortunately which means they will drag their heels constantly.
    Let’s see who forms the new government post election, before we write them off.
    History is such that deploying German troops in Ukraine with the possibility of fighting Russians is very problematic.
    The Poles don't seem keen, either.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,587
    Jonathan said:

    Starmer doing well in impossible circumstances. Hope all the wise heads of all parties are backing him. He’s become PM at arguably most difficult time since Churchill.

    You don’t wish Kemi Badenoch were there?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,793

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Gossip.

    Has anyone well-connected at Westminster heard this one that came my way, wrt tensions around Trump?

    Paraphrased from a witness:

    A Reform MP (we think, Lee Anderson) was challenged in a corridor by a Tory Whip, on his willingness to perform fellatio on the current President. Anderson retorted with ‘Socialist c**t’, to which came the reply, ‘Sorry, I couldn’t hear you with Musk’s d**k in your mouth.’ Both MPs quickly passed on in silence when they realised they had a small audience.

    Ridiculous* comment.

    As if something as small as Musk's dick would muffle the sound so as to make it incomprehensible.

    *no pun intended, for once.
    Someone should ask Lee Anderson whether the Internet rumour about Musk’s penis (botched enlargement surgery) is correct.
    If true, that's pretty revolting for a Tory whip to say. I don't expect them to be warm and cuddly, but I think I'd like them not to be foul-mouthed adolescents with Donald Trump and Elon Musk's willies on the brain.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 795
    MattW said:

    An important case wrt Trump.

    A lawsuit questioning whether Musk's role in DOGE is constitutional.

    Hilariously, it's fallen to Judge Chutkan, who is outstanding and completely professional.

    Judge hearing arguments over Musk's authority to run DOGE defers ruling on restraining order
    Fourteen states are challenging the constitutionality of Elon Musk's role.


    ...
    Fourteen states filed a federal lawsuit Thursday alleging that Musk's "expansive authority" is in violation of the Appointments Clause of the U.S. Constitution, which calls for anyone deemed a "principal officer" of the U.S. government to be formally nominated by the president and confirmed by the U.S. Senate.

    The states are seeking a temporary restraining order to block Musk and DOGE from continuing their work, but U.S. District Court Judge Tanya Chutkan, at a hearing Friday, said that she wants a narrower request from the plaintiffs.


    This is the initial post; it is still in process aiui.
    https://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-oversaw-trumps-jan-6-case-hear-arguments/story?id=118840054

    The Judge will probably deliver an exemplary ruling, totally correct on the law but it will be overturned by the SCOTUS. The Democrats were asleep at the wheel for too long, complacently thinking that everyone would play by the rules
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,793
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    The top table of European politics:

    image

    Starmer looks happy. Quite a lot of late stage politicians prefer the appeal of guilded rooms full of world leaders when their popularity is crashing at home. It's a straw and he's grabbing it with gusto.
    Starmers the new boy. He’s done well.
    On that we all agree. His career trajectory is extraordinary. Though perhaps it also says quite a lot about the type of person our systems tend to breed.
    Better than the US
    Hardly. I'd take what's left of Joe Biden over Starmer. At least he stood up for his country and its economy overseas.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,449
    edited February 17
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    MaxPB said:

    This time it will be Britain, France and Poland.

    The original allies. This time, I hope we don't let Poland down.

    Yup, there's no room for Germany in a European military alliance. They would rather appease Russia than deploy troop unfortunately which means they will drag their heels constantly.
    Let’s see who forms the new government post election, before we write them off.
    History is such that deploying German troops in Ukraine with the possibility of fighting Russians is very problematic.
    One of my son's explanations from a video on the young men's web was that the term Nazi in Russia does not have the same connotations as in the West, and can simply mean siding with Germany and against Russia. I suppose because of how the news was post-WW2 in Russia, that makes a certain amount of sense.

    I guess, even if that does hold true, Putin was playing the meaning both ways.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    edited February 17

    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443

    It won't matter if it does. The concept of the United States as "leader of the free world" is dead and buried. Even if there's much of a free world left for it to lead in four years' time.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,117
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    MaxPB said:

    This time it will be Britain, France and Poland.

    The original allies. This time, I hope we don't let Poland down.

    Yup, there's no room for Germany in a European military alliance. They would rather appease Russia than deploy troop unfortunately which means they will drag their heels constantly.
    Let’s see who forms the new government post election, before we write them off.
    History is such that deploying German troops in Ukraine with the possibility of fighting Russians is very problematic.
    It’s their money and weapons we need.
    Ukraine has the brigades.
  • Andy_JS said:

    AnneJGP said:

    People will start avoiding plane travel soon. How many does that make?
    They ought to avoid car travel if they were rational.
    And not have gas in their homes - explosions all the time.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,230
    AnneJGP said:

    People will start avoiding plane travel soon. How many does that make?
    America doing very poorly on air safety at the moment. Good thing Trump didn't fire all the FAA staff or anything... oh.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,641
    Did we cover this a couple of days ago?

    "Poll reveals a third of 16 and 17-year-olds would back Nigel Farage's Reform party in the next election"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14401817/Still-want-lower-voting-age-Sir-Keir-Mail-Sunday-poll-reveals-16-17-year-olds-Nigel-Farages-Reform-party-election.html
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,230

    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443

    Does he use bluesky? Not opening any MuskX on principle.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,091
    pigeon said:

    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443

    It won't matter if it does. The concept of the United States as "leader of the free world" is dead and buried. Even if there's much of a free world left for it to lead in four years' time.
    I love comments like this. What is it that you expect to happen to the free world in the next four years? And show your working.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,091
    Cicero said:

    AnneJGP said:

    People will start avoiding plane travel soon. How many does that make?
    America doing very poorly on air safety at the moment. Good thing Trump didn't fire all the FAA staff or anything... oh.
    Again - are we just noticing incidents because…
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,941
    edited February 17
    a
    Cicero said:

    AnneJGP said:

    People will start avoiding plane travel soon. How many does that make?
    America doing very poorly on air safety at the moment. Good thing Trump didn't fire all the FAA staff or anything... oh.
    Toronto isn't in the US. Yet.

    Edit. The conditions at the airport.


  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,880
    The Russians won't accept European peacekeepers in Ukraine
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,793
    So I've now watched Kemi's speech. A pretty good speech (to a sympathetic audience of course) and a good response. She delivers a speech well and sounds sincere.

    But I can't really get on board with her central policy theme, which seems to be that we should stick with the ECHR, because the fault lies not with the ECHR, but with judges operating a maximalist approach to the ECHR. So like Katherine Birbalsingh, we should all buck up our ideas and fight fight fight in the courts till we win. That is problematical to me for a few reasons:

    -The 'living instrument' doctrine means the ECHR isn't a set of rules, it's a metastasising encroachment on the role of elected governments.

    -Even if it were a simple case of judges interpreting the law wrongly, what's going to stop them from doing that - a pep talk from Kemi? Re-education camp?

    As we've seen here, the speech is going down like a cup of cold sick with the centrist fraternity anyway, so why continue to insist that we must keep the ECHR?

    It was nothing new. However, she really is nothing if not consistent, you have to give her that.

    8.5 Delivery
    7.5 Content

    Good day for Kemi I'd say.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,732

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Gossip.

    Has anyone well-connected at Westminster heard this one that came my way, wrt tensions around Trump?

    Paraphrased from a witness:

    A Reform MP (we think, Lee Anderson) was challenged in a corridor by a Tory Whip, on his willingness to perform fellatio on the current President. Anderson retorted with ‘Socialist c**t’, to which came the reply, ‘Sorry, I couldn’t hear you with Musk’s d**k in your mouth.’ Both MPs quickly passed on in silence when they realised they had a small audience.

    Ridiculous* comment.

    As if something as small as Musk's dick would muffle the sound so as to make it incomprehensible.

    *no pun intended, for once.
    Someone should ask Lee Anderson whether the Internet rumour about Musk’s penis (botched enlargement surgery) is correct.
    If true, that's pretty revolting for a Tory whip to say. I don't expect them to be warm and cuddly, but I think I'd like them not to be foul-mouthed adolescents with Donald Trump and Elon Musk's willies on the brain.
    I think you’re being a little naïve if you think politicians of all stripes aren’t frequently foul-mouthed!
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,395

    pigeon said:

    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443

    It won't matter if it does. The concept of the United States as "leader of the free world" is dead and buried. Even if there's much of a free world left for it to lead in four years' time.
    I love comments like this. What is it that you expect to happen to the free world in the next four years? And show your working.
    Parts of it being occupied by Russia is looking increasingly likely
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,793

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Gossip.

    Has anyone well-connected at Westminster heard this one that came my way, wrt tensions around Trump?

    Paraphrased from a witness:

    A Reform MP (we think, Lee Anderson) was challenged in a corridor by a Tory Whip, on his willingness to perform fellatio on the current President. Anderson retorted with ‘Socialist c**t’, to which came the reply, ‘Sorry, I couldn’t hear you with Musk’s d**k in your mouth.’ Both MPs quickly passed on in silence when they realised they had a small audience.

    Ridiculous* comment.

    As if something as small as Musk's dick would muffle the sound so as to make it incomprehensible.

    *no pun intended, for once.
    Someone should ask Lee Anderson whether the Internet rumour about Musk’s penis (botched enlargement surgery) is correct.
    If true, that's pretty revolting for a Tory whip to say. I don't expect them to be warm and cuddly, but I think I'd like them not to be foul-mouthed adolescents with Donald Trump and Elon Musk's willies on the brain.
    I think you’re being a little naïve if you think politicians of all stripes aren’t frequently foul-mouthed!
    Perhaps so, but it's a particularly pathetic Tory boy thing to say. It's unserious. Low rent. By contrast, I quite like Anderson's response. But that is definitely my bias showing.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,091

    pigeon said:

    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443

    It won't matter if it does. The concept of the United States as "leader of the free world" is dead and buried. Even if there's much of a free world left for it to lead in four years' time.
    I love comments like this. What is it that you expect to happen to the free world in the next four years? And show your working.
    Parts of it being occupied by Russia is looking increasingly likely
    Which parts? Bits of Ukraine already under the Russian Jack boot for sure, but Russia has been unable to win a war they thought they would win in three days.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,941
    A thought occurs.

    Some people upthread were shocked by 55% not want to raise taxes for defence. Some were shocked the other day about a poll where a good chunk of respondents wouldn't fight for their country.

    I think of a city dinner where the great and the good agreed with the sentiment that they saw no priority between the citizens of this country and those abroad. I think of their shock at the comments of an HAC officer who suggested that if their allegiance was flexible, so was his.

    What's the pitch, again?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,106
    Cicero said:

    AnneJGP said:

    People will start avoiding plane travel soon. How many does that make?
    America doing very poorly on air safety at the moment. Good thing Trump didn't fire all the FAA staff or anything... oh.
    Nice to see, on Twitter (and, apparently here) people going all partisan on a crash without concern for the passengers.

    Left: Trump fired the air traffic control
    Right: Due to Delta still embracing DEI

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,434
    Cicero said:

    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443

    Does he use bluesky? Not opening any MuskX on principle.
    https://xcancel.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,895
    edited February 17
    Have been watching videos about Chinese cars all day...the Western car makers particularly German ones are so f##ked. I have seen the BYDs they sent to West and they are meh, but they are also meh in China compared to what they now make.

    I can see why the likes of VW sales have tanked in China now.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,941
    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    MaxPB said:

    This time it will be Britain, France and Poland.

    The original allies. This time, I hope we don't let Poland down.

    Yup, there's no room for Germany in a European military alliance. They would rather appease Russia than deploy troop unfortunately which means they will drag their heels constantly.
    Let’s see who forms the new government post election, before we write them off.
    History is such that deploying German troops in Ukraine with the possibility of fighting Russians is very problematic.
    One of my son's explanations from a video on the young men's web was that the term Nazi in Russia does not have the same connotations as in the West, and can simply mean siding with Germany and against Russia. I suppose because of how the news was post-WW2 in Russia, that makes a certain amount of sense.

    I guess, even if that does hold true, Putin was playing the meaning both ways.
    So Russian Nazis are just pro-German and anti-Russian?
  • WinchyWinchy Posts: 110

    I thought Kemi couldn't be challenged before November 25 but frankly with world events as they are she is not going to get a hearing

    Yes - because the Conservative party support the Labour position on both Ukraine and Gaza.
    Reform only support it on Gaza.

    I could see her resigning after the locals if the big story is a powerful performance by Reform.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,793

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starting to think Corbyn was quite hard done by 👀

    "I would rather be governed by someone who would imprison or kill me if I criticised him than be governed by Keir Starmer"

    More from Jeremy Clarkson as we get it.

    The right in the UK has lost its mind.

    Tax dodging farmers like Clarkson really do hate Starmer.
    Only Stalin hammered landowning farmers as much as Starmer has
    Oh diddums. 🎻
    Hang on, why are you in favour of anyone paying more death tax?

    More head scratchers from the world's worst libertarian.
    I am in favour of taxes being low and equally applied to all. Perfectly libertarian, that.

    Some being exempt from taxes they expect others to have to pay means that taxes have to be higher on others to make up the slack of those who aren't contributing.

    Hope that clears up the confusion for you.
    It certainly clears up any lingering doubts that you might be an actual libertarian. I think you'll find the passage in bold is fairly straightforward socialism.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,941
    Selebian said:

    Cicero said:

    AnneJGP said:

    People will start avoiding plane travel soon. How many does that make?
    America doing very poorly on air safety at the moment. Good thing Trump didn't fire all the FAA staff or anything... oh.
    Nice to see, on Twitter (and, apparently here) people going all partisan on a crash without concern for the passengers.

    Left: Trump fired the air traffic control
    Right: Due to Delta still embracing DEI

    Dieu et mon droit....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,895
    edited February 17
    Grok3 launches in a few hours. Lets see if Musk's claims it is better than OpenAI models is true. I think one thing is for highly likely, OpenAI moat is well and truly gone.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169
    edited February 17

    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    MaxPB said:

    This time it will be Britain, France and Poland.

    The original allies. This time, I hope we don't let Poland down.

    Yup, there's no room for Germany in a European military alliance. They would rather appease Russia than deploy troop unfortunately which means they will drag their heels constantly.
    Let’s see who forms the new government post election, before we write them off.
    History is such that deploying German troops in Ukraine with the possibility of fighting Russians is very problematic.
    One of my son's explanations from a video on the young men's web was that the term Nazi in Russia does not have the same connotations as in the West, and can simply mean siding with Germany and against Russia. I suppose because of how the news was post-WW2 in Russia, that makes a certain amount of sense.

    I guess, even if that does hold true, Putin was playing the meaning both ways.
    So Russian Nazis are just pro-German and anti-Russian?
    No, Russians cannot be Nazis, even if antisemitic, militaristic, aggressively nationalistic, antidemocratic and even if wearing swastikas and other paraphernalia.

    A Nazi, by the Russian definition, is simply anyone who opposes the Russian government. It doesn't matter if they are Jewish, democratic or even a pacifist. If they are opposed to Russian expansionism then they are a Nazi.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,395

    pigeon said:

    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443

    It won't matter if it does. The concept of the United States as "leader of the free world" is dead and buried. Even if there's much of a free world left for it to lead in four years' time.
    I love comments like this. What is it that you expect to happen to the free world in the next four years? And show your working.
    Parts of it being occupied by Russia is looking increasingly likely
    Which parts? Bits of Ukraine already under the Russian Jack boot for sure, but Russia has been unable to win a war they thought they would win in three days.
    I'm thinking of the Baltics. Would the winged hussars ride again to protect Lithuania? Maybe. What about Estonia and Latvia?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,946
    Well off to watch Threads on iPlayer for light relief and lifestyle tips.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,941
    Foxy said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    MaxPB said:

    This time it will be Britain, France and Poland.

    The original allies. This time, I hope we don't let Poland down.

    Yup, there's no room for Germany in a European military alliance. They would rather appease Russia than deploy troop unfortunately which means they will drag their heels constantly.
    Let’s see who forms the new government post election, before we write them off.
    History is such that deploying German troops in Ukraine with the possibility of fighting Russians is very problematic.
    One of my son's explanations from a video on the young men's web was that the term Nazi in Russia does not have the same connotations as in the West, and can simply mean siding with Germany and against Russia. I suppose because of how the news was post-WW2 in Russia, that makes a certain amount of sense.

    I guess, even if that does hold true, Putin was playing the meaning both ways.
    So Russian Nazis are just pro-German and anti-Russian?
    No, Russians cannot be Nazis, even if antisemitic, militaristic, aggressively nationalistic, antidemocratic and even if wearing swastikas and other paraphernalia.

    A Nazi, by the Russian definition, is simply anyone who opposes the Russian government. It doesn't matter if they are Jewish, democratic or even a pacifist. If they are opposed to Russian expansion ism then they are a Nazi.
    But what then of this rum blossom ?



    https://www.ft.com/content/6c425b88-507d-42eb-8a78-0a724338aff4

    Call me a stereotyping bigot, but when someone actually tattoos SS rank tabs on themselves......




  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,216
    Cicero said:

    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443

    Does he use bluesky? Not opening any MuskX on principle.
    Yes but that particular tweet doesn't seem to be on Blue:

    @mcfaulmike.bsky.social
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,481

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starting to think Corbyn was quite hard done by 👀

    "I would rather be governed by someone who would imprison or kill me if I criticised him than be governed by Keir Starmer"

    More from Jeremy Clarkson as we get it.

    The right in the UK has lost its mind.

    Tax dodging farmers like Clarkson really do hate Starmer.
    Only Stalin hammered landowning farmers as much as Starmer has
    Oh diddums. 🎻
    Hang on, why are you in favour of anyone paying more death tax?

    More head scratchers from the world's worst libertarian.
    I am in favour of taxes being low and equally applied to all. Perfectly libertarian, that.

    Some being exempt from taxes they expect others to have to pay means that taxes have to be higher on others to make up the slack of those who aren't contributing.

    Hope that clears up the confusion for you.
    It certainly clears up any lingering doubts that you might be an actual libertarian. I think you'll find the passage in bold is fairly straightforward socialism.
    Isn't a simple statement of fact: one man's tax break is another man's tax burden.

    As much as possible, taxes should be simple, flat, and apply to all economic activity.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,481

    Cicero said:

    AnneJGP said:

    People will start avoiding plane travel soon. How many does that make?
    America doing very poorly on air safety at the moment. Good thing Trump didn't fire all the FAA staff or anything... oh.
    Again - are we just noticing incidents because…
    Of course: it's like epidemics of dog bites.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169
    Selebian said:

    Cicero said:

    AnneJGP said:

    People will start avoiding plane travel soon. How many does that make?
    America doing very poorly on air safety at the moment. Good thing Trump didn't fire all the FAA staff or anything... oh.
    Nice to see, on Twitter (and, apparently here) people going all partisan on a crash without concern for the passengers.

    Left: Trump fired the air traffic control
    Right: Due to Delta still embracing DEI

    I for one am impressed how few injuries there are in a flipped plane.

    Presumably wearing their seat belts.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,914
    I missed that Trump is also (per FT) also promising to remove US troops from the Baltics, so that’s Putin 4-0.
  • The significance of Grok 3, outside of X drama, is that it is the first full model release that we definitely know is at least an order of magnitude larger than GPT-4 class models in training compute, so it will help us understand whether 1st scaling law (pre-training) holds up.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,117
    Rare earths aren’t rare, part 121…

    Critica claims Australia’s biggest clay-hosted rare earths discovery
    https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/companies/critica-claims-australia-s-biggest-clay-hosted-rare-earths-discovery-20250211-p5lbcm.html

    China embargoing exports has revitalised western mining efforts.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,481

    Have been watching videos about Chinese cars all day...the Western car makers particularly German ones are so f##ked. I have seen the BYDs they sent to West and they are meh, but they are also meh in China compared to what they now make.

    I can see why the likes of VW sales have tanked in China now.

    Just the Germans? Have you used a Ford Mustang electric? Truly dire.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,895
    edited February 17
    rcs1000 said:

    Have been watching videos about Chinese cars all day...the Western car makers particularly German ones are so f##ked. I have seen the BYDs they sent to West and they are meh, but they are also meh in China compared to what they now make.

    I can see why the likes of VW sales have tanked in China now.

    Just the Germans? Have you used a Ford Mustang electric? Truly dire.
    Oh, I wrote off American brands years ago when I used to be in the states regularly and having to use rentals so I got to experience a wide range of vehicles.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169

    Foxy said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    MaxPB said:

    This time it will be Britain, France and Poland.

    The original allies. This time, I hope we don't let Poland down.

    Yup, there's no room for Germany in a European military alliance. They would rather appease Russia than deploy troop unfortunately which means they will drag their heels constantly.
    Let’s see who forms the new government post election, before we write them off.
    History is such that deploying German troops in Ukraine with the possibility of fighting Russians is very problematic.
    One of my son's explanations from a video on the young men's web was that the term Nazi in Russia does not have the same connotations as in the West, and can simply mean siding with Germany and against Russia. I suppose because of how the news was post-WW2 in Russia, that makes a certain amount of sense.

    I guess, even if that does hold true, Putin was playing the meaning both ways.
    So Russian Nazis are just pro-German and anti-Russian?
    No, Russians cannot be Nazis, even if antisemitic, militaristic, aggressively nationalistic, antidemocratic and even if wearing swastikas and other paraphernalia.

    A Nazi, by the Russian definition, is simply anyone who opposes the Russian government. It doesn't matter if they are Jewish, democratic or even a pacifist. If they are opposed to Russian expansion ism then they are a Nazi.
    But what then of this rum blossom ?



    https://www.ft.com/content/6c425b88-507d-42eb-8a78-0a724338aff4

    Call me a stereotyping bigot, but when someone actually tattoos SS rank tabs on themselves......




    Not a Nazi by the Russian definition as fighting for Russia.

    I am perfectly serious about what the Russians mean by Nazi. It's what they mean when they say denazification, installing a pro-Russian puppet regime.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,941
    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Cicero said:

    AnneJGP said:

    People will start avoiding plane travel soon. How many does that make?
    America doing very poorly on air safety at the moment. Good thing Trump didn't fire all the FAA staff or anything... oh.
    Nice to see, on Twitter (and, apparently here) people going all partisan on a crash without concern for the passengers.

    Left: Trump fired the air traffic control
    Right: Due to Delta still embracing DEI

    I for one am impressed how few injuries there are in a flipped plane.

    Presumably wearing their seat belts.
    Interesting how little fire there was - the wings being torn off like that should have dumped tons of fuel everywhere in a spray.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,106
    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Cicero said:

    AnneJGP said:

    People will start avoiding plane travel soon. How many does that make?
    America doing very poorly on air safety at the moment. Good thing Trump didn't fire all the FAA staff or anything... oh.
    Nice to see, on Twitter (and, apparently here) people going all partisan on a crash without concern for the passengers.

    Left: Trump fired the air traffic control
    Right: Due to Delta still embracing DEI

    I for one am impressed how few injuries there are in a flipped plane.

    Presumably wearing their seat belts.
    Indeed #healthandsafetygonemad
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,481

    rcs1000 said:

    Have been watching videos about Chinese cars all day...the Western car makers particularly German ones are so f##ked. I have seen the BYDs they sent to West and they are meh, but they are also meh in China compared to what they now make.

    I can see why the likes of VW sales have tanked in China now.

    Just the Germans? Have you used a Ford Mustang electric? Truly dire.
    Oh, I wrote off American brands years ago when I used to be in the states regularly and having to use rentals so I got to experience a wide range of vehicles.
    Fwiw, we just bought a fiat 500e, and it's absolutely superb. It's the best non-Tesla, non-Rivian EV I've ever driven.

    But legacy carmakers - whether Jaguar, Ford, VW or whoever - have been utterly shit at producing decent EVs. The Chinese, who don't have the ICE legacy, are simply much better.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,941
    Nigelb said:

    Rare earths aren’t rare, part 121…

    Critica claims Australia’s biggest clay-hosted rare earths discovery
    https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/companies/critica-claims-australia-s-biggest-clay-hosted-rare-earths-discovery-20250211-p5lbcm.html

    China embargoing exports has revitalised western mining efforts.

    The important things to know about rare earths

    1) They aren't rare
    2) They aren't earths
    3) Lithium isn't a rare earth. It isn't rare either.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,895
    edited February 17
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Have been watching videos about Chinese cars all day...the Western car makers particularly German ones are so f##ked. I have seen the BYDs they sent to West and they are meh, but they are also meh in China compared to what they now make.

    I can see why the likes of VW sales have tanked in China now.

    Just the Germans? Have you used a Ford Mustang electric? Truly dire.
    Oh, I wrote off American brands years ago when I used to be in the states regularly and having to use rentals so I got to experience a wide range of vehicles.
    Fwiw, we just bought a fiat 500e, and it's absolutely superb. It's the best non-Tesla, non-Rivian EV I've ever driven.

    But legacy carmakers - whether Jaguar, Ford, VW or whoever - have been utterly shit at producing decent EVs. The Chinese, who don't have the ICE legacy, are simply much better.
    Watching the videos, its not just the EV aspect, just the UI / UX on the control panels, the wide range of features e.g. lots have this zero gravity seat mode. In comparison, the legacy brands they look like old school Dell laptop running Window XP vs moden ipad with ipadOS.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,941
    a
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    MaxPB said:

    This time it will be Britain, France and Poland.

    The original allies. This time, I hope we don't let Poland down.

    Yup, there's no room for Germany in a European military alliance. They would rather appease Russia than deploy troop unfortunately which means they will drag their heels constantly.
    Let’s see who forms the new government post election, before we write them off.
    History is such that deploying German troops in Ukraine with the possibility of fighting Russians is very problematic.
    One of my son's explanations from a video on the young men's web was that the term Nazi in Russia does not have the same connotations as in the West, and can simply mean siding with Germany and against Russia. I suppose because of how the news was post-WW2 in Russia, that makes a certain amount of sense.

    I guess, even if that does hold true, Putin was playing the meaning both ways.
    So Russian Nazis are just pro-German and anti-Russian?
    No, Russians cannot be Nazis, even if antisemitic, militaristic, aggressively nationalistic, antidemocratic and even if wearing swastikas and other paraphernalia.

    A Nazi, by the Russian definition, is simply anyone who opposes the Russian government. It doesn't matter if they are Jewish, democratic or even a pacifist. If they are opposed to Russian expansion ism then they are a Nazi.
    But what then of this rum blossom ?



    https://www.ft.com/content/6c425b88-507d-42eb-8a78-0a724338aff4

    Call me a stereotyping bigot, but when someone actually tattoos SS rank tabs on themselves......




    Not a Nazi by the Russian definition as fighting for Russia.

    I am perfectly serious about what the Russians mean by Nazi. It's what they mean when they say denazification, installing a pro-Russian puppet regime.
    Just enjoying the comedy of definitions. That one is a corker, isn't it?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173

    pigeon said:

    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443

    It won't matter if it does. The concept of the United States as "leader of the free world" is dead and buried. Even if there's much of a free world left for it to lead in four years' time.
    I love comments like this. What is it that you expect to happen to the free world in the next four years? And show your working.
    I'm giving in to pessimism, and why not? The entire state of the world gives no cause for anything else. Four years is ample time for Ukraine to be dismembered, the Baltics to fall to the next invasion like a pack of cards, Germany to discover the joys of neo-Nazism and fuck knows what else, and that's just in our little corner of this dying planet. The country is rotting, we are beset by insoluble problems at home and surrounded by extreme danger of several different kinds. I don't see any prospect of our circumstances improving, just getting worse and worse and worse. Perhaps you'd like to show your working for how everything *doesn't* go to hell in a handcart?
  • Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    MaxPB said:

    This time it will be Britain, France and Poland.

    The original allies. This time, I hope we don't let Poland down.

    Yup, there's no room for Germany in a European military alliance. They would rather appease Russia than deploy troop unfortunately which means they will drag their heels constantly.
    Let’s see who forms the new government post election, before we write them off.
    History is such that deploying German troops in Ukraine with the possibility of fighting Russians is very problematic.
    First four countries to recognise Ukrainian independence in February 1918?

    Germany
    Austria-Hungary
    Bulgaria
    Ottoman Turkey
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,117
    geoffw said:

    The Russians won't accept European peacekeepers in Ukraine

    Fuck ‘em.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,941
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443

    It won't matter if it does. The concept of the United States as "leader of the free world" is dead and buried. Even if there's much of a free world left for it to lead in four years' time.
    I love comments like this. What is it that you expect to happen to the free world in the next four years? And show your working.
    I'm giving in to pessimism, and why not? The entire state of the world gives no cause for anything else. Four years is ample time for Ukraine to be dismembered, the Baltics to fall to the next invasion like a pack of cards, Germany to discover the joys of neo-Nazism and fuck knows what else, and that's just in our little corner of this dying planet. The country is rotting, we are beset by insoluble problems at home and surrounded by extreme danger of several different kinds. I don't see any prospect of our circumstances improving, just getting worse and worse and worse. Perhaps you'd like to show your working for how everything *doesn't* go to hell in a handcart?
    There is good news.

    Nucleomitophobia is falling away in our society.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    MaxPB said:

    This time it will be Britain, France and Poland.

    The original allies. This time, I hope we don't let Poland down.

    Yup, there's no room for Germany in a European military alliance. They would rather appease Russia than deploy troop unfortunately which means they will drag their heels constantly.
    Let’s see who forms the new government post election, before we write them off.
    History is such that deploying German troops in Ukraine with the possibility of fighting Russians is very problematic.
    First four countries to recognise Ukrainian independence in February 1918?

    Germany
    Austria-Hungary
    Bulgaria
    Ottoman Turkey
    A lot has changed since then.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,941
    Selebian said:

    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Cicero said:

    AnneJGP said:

    People will start avoiding plane travel soon. How many does that make?
    America doing very poorly on air safety at the moment. Good thing Trump didn't fire all the FAA staff or anything... oh.
    Nice to see, on Twitter (and, apparently here) people going all partisan on a crash without concern for the passengers.

    Left: Trump fired the air traffic control
    Right: Due to Delta still embracing DEI

    I for one am impressed how few injuries there are in a flipped plane.

    Presumably wearing their seat belts.
    Indeed #healthandsafetygonemad
    #'ealthandsafetygonemad - Shirley?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,220
    edited February 17

    I missed that Trump is also (per FT) also promising to remove US troops from the Baltics, so that’s Putin 4-0.


    https://archive.is/20250217201212/https://www.ft.com/content/11f121f9-391c-4597-93f7-f12894e1b79d

    So ... Trump gets many of the best Western forces committed to a buffer zone in Ukraine.

    Putin no longer needs his troops (with their say 50k drones) in Ukraine, as they have "peace".

    So he diverts them to the Baltics.

    I'm back where I was yesterday ... Europe needs to write the agenda and timeline here, and we don't want a peace settlement so quickly that we cannot consider and adapt. We need to keep Putin's forces tied down in Ukraine, which says maybe we need to back Ukraine's requirements and provide backup maybe in country whilst an acceptable-to-Ukraine settlement is done if possible.

    Trump & Co are using speed and context-switching to destabilise and try and drive a settlement through whilst Europe is still in shock.

    Really, really good Ukraine the Latest today. They pick up on a lot of the strategic / geo-political subtleties.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jry_7RbV0KA
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443

    It won't matter if it does. The concept of the United States as "leader of the free world" is dead and buried. Even if there's much of a free world left for it to lead in four years' time.
    I love comments like this. What is it that you expect to happen to the free world in the next four years? And show your working.
    I'm giving in to pessimism, and why not? The entire state of the world gives no cause for anything else. Four years is ample time for Ukraine to be dismembered, the Baltics to fall to the next invasion like a pack of cards, Germany to discover the joys of neo-Nazism and fuck knows what else, and that's just in our little corner of this dying planet. The country is rotting, we are beset by insoluble problems at home and surrounded by extreme danger of several different kinds. I don't see any prospect of our circumstances improving, just getting worse and worse and worse. Perhaps you'd like to show your working for how everything *doesn't* go to hell in a handcart?
    On the positive side, our robot overlords will exterminate us all, thereby solving global warming.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,825
    Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443

    It won't matter if it does. The concept of the United States as "leader of the free world" is dead and buried. Even if there's much of a free world left for it to lead in four years' time.
    I love comments like this. What is it that you expect to happen to the free world in the next four years? And show your working.
    I'm giving in to pessimism, and why not? The entire state of the world gives no cause for anything else. Four years is ample time for Ukraine to be dismembered, the Baltics to fall to the next invasion like a pack of cards, Germany to discover the joys of neo-Nazism and fuck knows what else, and that's just in our little corner of this dying planet. The country is rotting, we are beset by insoluble problems at home and surrounded by extreme danger of several different kinds. I don't see any prospect of our circumstances improving, just getting worse and worse and worse. Perhaps you'd like to show your working for how everything *doesn't* go to hell in a handcart?
    On the positive side, our robot overlords will exterminate us all, thereby solving global warming.
    How much do we need to warm the world first to balance the effects of global nuclear winter?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,091
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443

    It won't matter if it does. The concept of the United States as "leader of the free world" is dead and buried. Even if there's much of a free world left for it to lead in four years' time.
    I love comments like this. What is it that you expect to happen to the free world in the next four years? And show your working.
    I'm giving in to pessimism, and why not? The entire state of the world gives no cause for anything else. Four years is ample time for Ukraine to be dismembered, the Baltics to fall to the next invasion like a pack of cards, Germany to discover the joys of neo-Nazism and fuck knows what else, and that's just in our little corner of this dying planet. The country is rotting, we are beset by insoluble problems at home and surrounded by extreme danger of several different kinds. I don't see any prospect of our circumstances improving, just getting worse and worse and worse. Perhaps you'd like to show your working for how everything *doesn't* go to hell in a handcart?
    Maybe you just need a few days of springlike weather?

    Most peoples lives in 2025 are better than the lives of any other people in history. Europe is already coming together to face a new paradigm. Russia has fecked itself trying to achieve a three day victory that’s inexplicably taken over two years already. The Russian army is not the threat it used to seem, even in 2022. Trump/America is not the free world. Step back from doom scrolling and get some fresh air.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169

    Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443

    It won't matter if it does. The concept of the United States as "leader of the free world" is dead and buried. Even if there's much of a free world left for it to lead in four years' time.
    I love comments like this. What is it that you expect to happen to the free world in the next four years? And show your working.
    I'm giving in to pessimism, and why not? The entire state of the world gives no cause for anything else. Four years is ample time for Ukraine to be dismembered, the Baltics to fall to the next invasion like a pack of cards, Germany to discover the joys of neo-Nazism and fuck knows what else, and that's just in our little corner of this dying planet. The country is rotting, we are beset by insoluble problems at home and surrounded by extreme danger of several different kinds. I don't see any prospect of our circumstances improving, just getting worse and worse and worse. Perhaps you'd like to show your working for how everything *doesn't* go to hell in a handcart?
    On the positive side, our robot overlords will exterminate us all, thereby solving global warming.
    How much do we need to warm the world first to balance the effects of global nuclear winter?
    I think we are just about there, but as no one will be around as a witness, it probably doesn't matter.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,216
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    MaxPB said:

    This time it will be Britain, France and Poland.

    The original allies. This time, I hope we don't let Poland down.

    Yup, there's no room for Germany in a European military alliance. They would rather appease Russia than deploy troop unfortunately which means they will drag their heels constantly.
    Let’s see who forms the new government post election, before we write them off.
    History is such that deploying German troops in Ukraine with the possibility of fighting Russians is very problematic.
    First four countries to recognise Ukrainian independence in February 1918?

    Germany
    Austria-Hungary
    Bulgaria
    Ottoman Turkey
    A lot has changed since then.
    2 of them dont even exist
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,825
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443

    It won't matter if it does. The concept of the United States as "leader of the free world" is dead and buried. Even if there's much of a free world left for it to lead in four years' time.
    I love comments like this. What is it that you expect to happen to the free world in the next four years? And show your working.
    I'm giving in to pessimism, and why not? The entire state of the world gives no cause for anything else. Four years is ample time for Ukraine to be dismembered, the Baltics to fall to the next invasion like a pack of cards, Germany to discover the joys of neo-Nazism and fuck knows what else, and that's just in our little corner of this dying planet. The country is rotting, we are beset by insoluble problems at home and surrounded by extreme danger of several different kinds. I don't see any prospect of our circumstances improving, just getting worse and worse and worse. Perhaps you'd like to show your working for how everything *doesn't* go to hell in a handcart?
    On the positive side, our robot overlords will exterminate us all, thereby solving global warming.
    How much do we need to warm the world first to balance the effects of global nuclear winter?
    I think we are just about there, but as no one will be around as a witness, it probably doesn't matter.
    That's the spirit!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,955
    Omnium said:

    This time it will be Britain, France and Poland.

    The original allies. This time, I hope we don't let Poland down.

    France is due a good war.
    It’s only been a thousand years (nearly) since the Norman conquest
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,569

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443

    It won't matter if it does. The concept of the United States as "leader of the free world" is dead and buried. Even if there's much of a free world left for it to lead in four years' time.
    I love comments like this. What is it that you expect to happen to the free world in the next four years? And show your working.
    I'm giving in to pessimism, and why not? The entire state of the world gives no cause for anything else. Four years is ample time for Ukraine to be dismembered, the Baltics to fall to the next invasion like a pack of cards, Germany to discover the joys of neo-Nazism and fuck knows what else, and that's just in our little corner of this dying planet. The country is rotting, we are beset by insoluble problems at home and surrounded by extreme danger of several different kinds. I don't see any prospect of our circumstances improving, just getting worse and worse and worse. Perhaps you'd like to show your working for how everything *doesn't* go to hell in a handcart?
    Maybe you just need a few days of springlike weather?

    Most peoples lives in 2025 are better than the lives of any other people in history. Europe is already coming together to face a new paradigm. Russia has fecked itself trying to achieve a three day victory that’s inexplicably taken over two years already. The Russian army is not the threat it used to seem, even in 2022. Trump/America is not the free world. Step back from doom scrolling and get some fresh air.
    Make that 3 years.
  • pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    The dogs bark, but the caravan has moved on. Sadly.

    Europe cannot rely on this happening in four years.

    As it almost certainly wont now unless there has been civil war.


    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    Europeans, don't give up on America yet! Trump does not represent us all. Most believe, like I do, that a strong NATO serves US security interests We need to limit the damage over the next 4 years so that we can rebuild our transatlantic partnership again in the future.

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1891552689407885443

    It won't matter if it does. The concept of the United States as "leader of the free world" is dead and buried. Even if there's much of a free world left for it to lead in four years' time.
    I love comments like this. What is it that you expect to happen to the free world in the next four years? And show your working.
    I'm giving in to pessimism, and why not? The entire state of the world gives no cause for anything else. Four years is ample time for Ukraine to be dismembered, the Baltics to fall to the next invasion like a pack of cards, Germany to discover the joys of neo-Nazism and fuck knows what else, and that's just in our little corner of this dying planet. The country is rotting, we are beset by insoluble problems at home and surrounded by extreme danger of several different kinds. I don't see any prospect of our circumstances improving, just getting worse and worse and worse. Perhaps you'd like to show your working for how everything *doesn't* go to hell in a handcart?
    When I was born we were in a world war with Hitler's bombs falling out of the sky and as I said previously one narrowly missed our home killing 6 neighbours

    At the same time my wife was with her family in Scapa as the fishermen supplied provisions to the fleet, and her fathers fishing boat was fitted with a machine gun and a navy lieutenant allocated to the vessel

    These were very dark days with frightening uncertainty but it passed in time

    These dark days will pass as well, though as in the last war they may take quite a lot of time
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