Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Time for Badenoch to paint the canvas or others will – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,318
edited February 18 in General
imageTime for Badenoch to paint the canvas or others will – politicalbetting.com

Recent @IpsosUK polling shows challenge faced by Badenoch / Tories.When you ask about the brand of party leaders, Farage has a clear one, leads on strength, personality, understands Britain's problems.Badenoch? Nowhere. No particular brand at all. https://t.co/c1dQKnIiMv pic.twitter.com/Nb1m83Kle4

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,493
    edited February 6
    First!? Unlike Badenoch will ever be, I rather suspect.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,152
    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,493
    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    Poor scores all round; a comment on the state of our politics.

    Davey will be pleased to come top on being honest and in touch with ordinary folk
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,152
    IanB2 said:

    First!? Unlike Badenoch will ever be, I rather suspect.

    She's really struggling.

    Not so easy to defenestrate a Tory leader any more though.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,711
    edited February 6
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    Poor scores all round; a comment on the state of our politics.

    Davey will be pleased to come top on being honest and in touch with ordinary folk
    Indeed. Davey scores well on most of the questions.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,018
    I dunno what KB's brand is. By natural inclination she's a technocrat globalist like Big Rish but doesn't seem to have his credentials in that milieu. At least he married a shitload of money. She then overcompensates by masquerading as a Blut und Boden populist but it's clearly insincere and forced so she's nowhere near as good as that as Farage. Add the a strident lack of personal warmth and you've got a branding nightmare even if she were a capable politician in other regards. Which she may be at MP/junior minister level but LotO looks like an over-promotion so far.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,936
    edited February 6
    The good news for Badenoch and the Tories is that if Badenoch can get a good brand going it might not be all gloom and doom for the Tories.

    Two problems.

    Is she capable of getting a personal brand going?
    (Curiously, this looked like one of her strengths beforehand. Strong backstory (even if it had some holes), simple proposition (even if copying the American right's playbook looks less plausible now.))

    Is she capable of realising how badly things are going for her?

    Meanwhile, yes this is an anonymous piece in an online magazine, but it couldn't be less subtle if the author called themselves Jobert Renwick;

    https://thecritic.co.uk/badenoch-must-go/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    Farage is a cert to win in 2028 on these numbers
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Riddle me this PB:

    Why are we giving away the Chagos Islands and paying THEM £18bn for the privilege?

    Is that the worse deal in history or is there actually some logic behind it?

    Bloomberg have the explanation for the logic.

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/1887203226044539166
    Ben Wallace (former Def Sec) seems to have immediately posted that this is all fabricated.

    Even if it isn't it deifies the purity of international law whilst ignoring that old adage that possession is nine tenths of the law.

    We shouldn't be naive about the power politics that's played out through UN agencies and the ICJ and Mauritius should be told the islands will stay British forever, there will never be a deal, and we should up our naval presence there on top.
    I do wonder what military and communication resources China has in Tibet... ;)
    We are living in an age of blood and steel, I'm afraid - just look at what Trump has been able to achieve in less than a month from shaking his stick around - and I see little benefit to Britain walking into that naked with a broken cricket bat.
    What exactly has Trump achieved in his first 3 weeks?
    Well, he's burnt down about 75 years of built up political capital in a fortnight.

    He's wrecked the reputation of the USA as a stable, reliable, trustworthy country.

    And he's running an action learning experiment in what can happen when the Rule of Law is removed from an advanced country.

    Indeed.

    The other thing to note is that the geographic location of frequency band allocation (the report seems to be talking about that in a very vague deployable-in-45-minutes manner) is, increasingly obsolete.

    Frequencies for satellite systems are set worldwide, for example.

    Note that at the specific request of Biden, Starlink was turned on in Iran, which is a technical breach of ITU rules - no consent from the Iranian government.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 897
    Leon said:

    Farage is a cert to win in 2028 on these numbers

    I think I mentioned before Ken Clarke's assessment of the situation post-1979 on Matt Forde's podcast. 'The Labour Party had split in two and both were ahead of us in the polls.' I'm not saying Farage won't win, I'm not saying Starmer will win. I'm just saying 2028 is a long time away.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Normal service is resumed, have a video of a Russian fuel storage facility on fire. 🔥

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1887142628988235803
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922
    edited February 6
    On topic.

    The reason for low score, across the board, is a profound disconnect between politicians and the electorate.

    The politicians do not want to do the things the electorate wants. They want to talk the talk, then walk another walk.

    They are then appalled to find that the electorate does not regard them as trustworthy.
  • The good news for Badenoch and the Tories is that if Badenoch can get a good brand going it might not be all gloom and doom for the Tories.

    Two problems.

    Is she capable of getting a personal brand going?
    (Curiously, this looked like one of her strengths beforehand. Strong backstory (even if it had some holes), simple proposition (even if copying the American right's playbook looks less plausible now.))

    Is she capable of realising how badly things are going for her?

    Meanwhile, yes this is an anonymous piece in an online magazine, but it couldn't be less subtle if the author called themselves Jobert Renwick;

    https://thecritic.co.uk/badenoch-must-go/

    She needs to take my advice and be more modest and self effacing.

    This smacks so strongly of an over-promoted middle manager because, at the end of the day, that’s what she is.

    Kemi’s aggressive personal style means, I suspect, that she has never been corrected at work by colleagues. She probably believes that she doesn’t make gaffes; she probably believes she is some preternatural talent who simply does politics better because she is better. On both counts, she is wrong.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,936

    On topic.

    The reason for low score, across the board, is a profound disconnect between politicians and the electorate.

    The politicians do not want to do the things the electorate wants. They want to talk the talk, then walk another walk.

    They are then appalled to find that the electorate does not regard them as trustworthy.

    Trouble is that the totality of what the electorate wants is probably unattainable. Too much of it boils down to wanting nice things without their nasty consequences.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    edited February 6
    So who is going to be the party leader at the next election, who runs on doing a zero-based budget as they’re doing in the US?? I’m pretty sure the problem is not quite so bad in the UK, but there’s still going to be plenty of silly-looking line items in the international development and academic research budgets.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,794
    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    I don't like the misleading way this polling is reported without showing don't knows
    eg 'An honest person' is in fact:

    Starmer Yes 31% No 46% Don't know 23% Net -15%
    Badenoch Yes 21% No 37% Don't know 43% Net -16%
    Farage Yes 24% No 50% Don't know 26% Net -26%
    Davey Yes 37% No 22% Don't know 41% Net +15%

    Badenoch's net 'honest person' is actually better than Farage's, and Davey's 37% is even more impressive given the numbers saying 'Don't know'

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2025-01/Ipsos January 2025_Political Pulse_Data Tables_PUBLIC_0.pdf

    Net for 'Shares my values' are bad though:

    Starmer -31%
    Badenoch -32%
    Farage -27%
    Davey -6%
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 381
    FPT

    Someone mentioned Santorini and earthquakes. Sat through a tremor in a restaurant in Greece a few years ago. Strange feeling where you think something is happening but no one moves. Meanwhile further down the road, a pothole to beat all potholes.


  • TazTaz Posts: 16,563
    Decent numbers for Ed Davey. In touch with ordinary people. Really !!!! I find that staggering.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 792
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    I don't like the misleading way this polling is reported without showing don't knows
    eg 'An honest person' is in fact:

    Starmer Yes 31% No 46% Don't know 23% Net -15%
    Badenoch Yes 21% No 37% Don't know 43% Net -16%
    Farage Yes 24% No 50% Don't know 26% Net -26%
    Davey Yes 37% No 22% Don't know 41% Net +15%

    Badenoch's net 'honest person' is actually better than Farage's, and Davey's 37% is even more impressive given the numbers saying 'Don't know'

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2025-01/Ipsos January 2025_Political Pulse_Data Tables_PUBLIC_0.pdf

    Net for 'Shares my values' are bad though:

    Starmer -31%
    Badenoch -32%
    Farage -27%
    Davey -6%
    There we go, confirmation UK is a bunch of NIMBYs
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Foxy said:

    On topic.

    The reason for low score, across the board, is a profound disconnect between politicians and the electorate.

    The politicians do not want to do the things the electorate wants. They want to talk the talk, then walk another walk.

    They are then appalled to find that the electorate does not regard them as trustworthy.

    The things that the electorate wants?

    That's where the reality hits.

    World class public services with low taxes (on them).

    No immigration but well staffed cheap labour intensive services like Social Care, hospitality, and fast food delivery.

    Tough on crime and anti-social behaviour, but no restrictions on them and theirs.

    Etc etc.

    Constructing castles on clouds isn't an easy task. Maybe, just maybe it's not about the quality of our politicians.
    It’s the job of the politicians to square the circle, and strike an acceptable-to-most balance between government work and taxation rates.

    One doesn’t have to go back very far to see that the last generation of politicians, such as Cameron and Blair, were much better at articulating a vision of where they want to take the country. The current lot, from all parties, appear to have little ambition other than to be in a position with generous expenses.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,458
    Sandpit said:

    So who is going to be the party leader at the next election, who runs on doing a zero-based budget as they’re doing in the US?? I’m pretty sure the problem is not quite so bad in the UK, but there’s still going to be plenty of silly-looking line items in the international development and academic research budgets.

    No politician in the US is running on a balanced budget platform.

    The US budget deficit today is around $1.6 trillion.

    Elon Musk has expressed optimism about cutting the budget deficit by $1trillion.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,794
    Dopermean said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    I don't like the misleading way this polling is reported without showing don't knows
    eg 'An honest person' is in fact:

    Starmer Yes 31% No 46% Don't know 23% Net -15%
    Badenoch Yes 21% No 37% Don't know 43% Net -16%
    Farage Yes 24% No 50% Don't know 26% Net -26%
    Davey Yes 37% No 22% Don't know 41% Net +15%

    Badenoch's net 'honest person' is actually better than Farage's, and Davey's 37% is even more impressive given the numbers saying 'Don't know'

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2025-01/Ipsos January 2025_Political Pulse_Data Tables_PUBLIC_0.pdf

    Net for 'Shares my values' are bad though:

    Starmer -31%
    Badenoch -32%
    Farage -27%
    Davey -6%
    There we go, confirmation UK is a bunch of NIMBYs
    Davey nailed on to win in 2028 on these numbers!
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,559
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    I don't like the misleading way this polling is reported without showing don't knows
    eg 'An honest person' is in fact:

    Starmer Yes 31% No 46% Don't know 23% Net -15%
    Badenoch Yes 21% No 37% Don't know 43% Net -16%
    Farage Yes 24% No 50% Don't know 26% Net -26%
    Davey Yes 37% No 22% Don't know 41% Net +15%

    Badenoch's net 'honest person' is actually better than Farage's, and Davey's 37% is even more impressive given the numbers saying 'Don't know'

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2025-01/Ipsos January 2025_Political Pulse_Data Tables_PUBLIC_0.pdf

    Net for 'Shares my values' are bad though:

    Starmer -31%
    Badenoch -32%
    Farage -27%
    Davey -6%
    Which overall seems to cast the opinion of Badenoch as "probably just another politician until proven otherwise". Whether the irreconcilables like Jenrick and TSE will give her the time and space to have a chance to prove otherwise is a different question.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,794
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So who is going to be the party leader at the next election, who runs on doing a zero-based budget as they’re doing in the US?? I’m pretty sure the problem is not quite so bad in the UK, but there’s still going to be plenty of silly-looking line items in the international development and academic research budgets.

    No politician in the US is running on a balanced budget platform.

    The US budget deficit today is around $1.6 trillion.

    Elon Musk has expressed optimism about cutting the budget deficit by $1trillion.
    If he does find a trillion it'll go straight into his and mates' pockets, rather than cutting the deficit.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068
    Taz said:

    Decent numbers for Ed Davey. In touch with ordinary people. Really !!!! I find that staggering.

    I was going to note your extraordinary nature, but Robert got there first.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068
    edited February 6
    Badenoch has, FWIW (probably not all that much), made a first step today, with her new immigration policy detail.

    So she at least recognises that there's no Ming Vase for her.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So who is going to be the party leader at the next election, who runs on doing a zero-based budget as they’re doing in the US?? I’m pretty sure the problem is not quite so bad in the UK, but there’s still going to be plenty of silly-looking line items in the international development and academic research budgets.

    No politician in the US is running on a balanced budget platform.

    The US budget deficit today is around $1.6 trillion.

    Elon Musk has expressed optimism about cutting the budget deficit by $1trillion.
    Which is why I said a zero-based budget rather than a balanced budget!

    Yes the US deficit was totally unsustainable, I’m sure we’ve all worked at companies where the finances have been a mess, new management has come in and suddenly every purchase of a pencil needs justification. My suspicion is that every Western country is going to need to do a similar exercise in the coming years, or face the wrath of the markets.

    In the UK there’s a gap of 6.3% of GDP between tax revenues and government spending. At some point the debt interest is going to be like having another NHS to fund.
    https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/uk/pdf/2025/01/uk-economic-outlook-january-2025.pdf
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So who is going to be the party leader at the next election, who runs on doing a zero-based budget as they’re doing in the US?? I’m pretty sure the problem is not quite so bad in the UK, but there’s still going to be plenty of silly-looking line items in the international development and academic research budgets.

    No politician in the US is running on a balanced budget platform.

    The US budget deficit today is around $1.6 trillion.

    Elon Musk has expressed optimism about cutting the budget deficit by $1trillion.
    Has he explained how ?
    Because it's not going to be by cutting "waste", without a wholesale redefinition of the term.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068
    OTOH, California has some serious fat to cut.
    Newsom has zero change against someone like Shapiro for the nomination, if he doesn't sort this sort of shit out.

    This is actually insane. The 119 Mile, on flat land, Merced to Bakersfield part of the California HSR, totally planned and in progress literally for decades, will not be finished for at least 11 years. Can we get the
    @_brianpotter deep dive on what the hell they are doing?

    https://x.com/Afinetheorem/status/1887298279001759956
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,200
    Hmmm.

    I see that Starmer's rep is damaged by being a lawyer.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,198
    Good morning, everyone.

    She's been leader for long enough that this should've already happened.

    F1: Audi (Sauber next year) are to open a base in the UK. Smart move given everyone except them and Ferrari have one base or another which makes it easier to get good talent.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,633
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So who is going to be the party leader at the next election, who runs on doing a zero-based budget as they’re doing in the US?? I’m pretty sure the problem is not quite so bad in the UK, but there’s still going to be plenty of silly-looking line items in the international development and academic research budgets.

    No politician in the US is running on a balanced budget platform.

    The US budget deficit today is around $1.6 trillion.

    Elon Musk has expressed optimism about cutting the budget deficit by $1trillion.
    @alastairmeeks.bsky.social‬

    I keep coming back to the thought that Elon Musk is making himself incredibly vulnerable. He’s such an obvious scapegoat if things go wrong. His only way through is to get this right first time. He has no track record of getting things right first time.



    It's a valid point. If Elon and his fratboys mess it up (and they are very likely to do so) he is front and centre for the blame cannon.

    And which of his companies is going to then want him as the face of their operations?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,200
    One for Musk supporters to explain, Tesla debt:

    The floating-rate debts carry an interest rate of approximately 11%, with borrowing costs above even the riskiest loans on Wall Street, the Journal said.

    (I'm not sure on the "bet on Musk" line. I'm more inclined to "banks dump Tesla debt", but this is not my topic.)

    https://nypost.com/2025/02/05/business/banks-sell-5-5b-of-x-loans-as-investors-bet-on-elon-musk-report/
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,227
    Leon said:

    Farage is a cert to win in 2028 on these numbers

    Predictable comment from you. What odds are you offering?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    One of Badenoch's multiple problems is that Jenrick is proving so much better at Opposition than her. He knows how to use social media, he makes barbed and articulate remarks, he's crisp and eloquent, he's plausible, punchy and papabile

    Every rightwinger can look across and think Shit, we chose the wrong guy

    And I fear they did. Badenoch was a bet - which on balance I favoured - but she was always a bet. She has one year to improve but then the Tories need Jenrick. Who cares if he is a dodgy chancer with odious tendencies, he's a politician and he just has to beat the shit out of Starmer, who is grotesque, treacherous and inept
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,633
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So who is going to be the party leader at the next election, who runs on doing a zero-based budget as they’re doing in the US?? I’m pretty sure the problem is not quite so bad in the UK, but there’s still going to be plenty of silly-looking line items in the international development and academic research budgets.

    No politician in the US is running on a balanced budget platform.

    The US budget deficit today is around $1.6 trillion.

    Elon Musk has expressed optimism about cutting the budget deficit by $1trillion.
    Has he explained how ?
    Because it's not going to be by cutting "waste", without a wholesale redefinition of the term.
    One man's "waste" is another man's "essential funding"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Farage is a cert to win in 2028 on these numbers

    Predictable comment from you. What odds are you offering?
    14,900 to one
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,227

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    Poor scores all round; a comment on the state of our politics.

    Davey will be pleased to come top on being honest and in touch with ordinary folk
    Indeed. Davey scores well on most of the questions.
    OGH would say this was significant and potentially more significant than current party ranking. I will repeat my view that Davey and the Lib Dems are likely to make progress, even substantial progress over the current Parliament.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    edited February 6
    Cicero said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    Poor scores all round; a comment on the state of our politics.

    Davey will be pleased to come top on being honest and in touch with ordinary folk
    Indeed. Davey scores well on most of the questions.
    OGH would say this was significant and potentially more significant than current party ranking. I will repeat my view that Davey and the Lib Dems are likely to make progress, even substantial progress over the current Parliament.
    I doubt if 20% of the British public can identify Ed Davey by name or face. Indeed, I suspect that, even if they were shown the face of Ed Davey, and they were told, "this is the face of Ed Davey, the leader of the Lib Dems", they would still say Who is that?

    In fact if you put them in a room with Ed Davey for 24 hours, and he sat there shouting "I am Ed Davey, I am the leader of the Lib Dems!!!", I bet at the end of it, they'd say "Who was that weird boring shouty guy in the room with me?"
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,423
    edited February 6
    Foxy said:

    On topic.

    The reason for low score, across the board, is a profound disconnect between politicians and the electorate.

    The politicians do not want to do the things the electorate wants. They want to talk the talk, then walk another walk.

    They are then appalled to find that the electorate does not regard them as trustworthy.

    The things that the electorate wants?

    That's where the reality hits.

    World class public services with low taxes (on them).

    No immigration but well staffed cheap labour intensive services like Social Care, hospitality, and fast food delivery.

    Tough on crime and anti-social behaviour, but no restrictions on them and theirs.

    Etc etc.

    Constructing castles on clouds isn't an easy task. Maybe, just maybe it's not about the quality of our politicians.
    That's a slight over simplification: The reality is more nuanced:

    We have not recently tried having world class public services and paying for them; the current objection is to highish taxes and bad services.

    There is suspicion among those who work and do their bit that there is a body of several million UK people who live on benefits but in a well ordered world would be doing the jobs the migrants are doing. I don't think this is entirely delusional.

    The great majority of people live lives nowhere close to committing significant crime, and ditto nowhere close to being anti social nuisances to their community. If anything people mostly live over conformist lives, standing in a queue.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,423
    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    Poor scores all round; a comment on the state of our politics.

    Davey will be pleased to come top on being honest and in touch with ordinary folk
    Indeed. Davey scores well on most of the questions.
    OGH would say this was significant and potentially more significant than current party ranking. I will repeat my view that Davey and the Lib Dems are likely to make progress, even substantial progress over the current Parliament.
    I doubt if 20% of the British public can identify Ed Davey by name or face. Indeed, I suspect that, even if they were shown the face of Ed Davey, and they were told, "this is the face of Ed Davey, the leader of the Lib Dems", they would still say Who is that?

    In fact if you put them in a room with Ed Davey for 24 hours, and he sat there shouting "I am Ed Davey, I am the leader of the Lib Dems!!!", I bet at the end of it, they'd say "Who was that weird boring shouty guy in the room with me?"
    There is actual evidence of what happens. The first minute of this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO0L10E-Cic
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068
    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So who is going to be the party leader at the next election, who runs on doing a zero-based budget as they’re doing in the US?? I’m pretty sure the problem is not quite so bad in the UK, but there’s still going to be plenty of silly-looking line items in the international development and academic research budgets.

    No politician in the US is running on a balanced budget platform.

    The US budget deficit today is around $1.6 trillion.

    Elon Musk has expressed optimism about cutting the budget deficit by $1trillion.
    Has he explained how ?
    Because it's not going to be by cutting "waste", without a wholesale redefinition of the term.
    One man's "waste" is another man's "essential funding"
    The polls say that he's already losing approval, fast.

    It's not up to Musk to change (eg) social security, or healthcare entitlements. Or indeed the defence budget.
    That's policy change, and will have to go through Congress. Imposing such things extra-legally is going to make a very big mess indeed.

    Absent any of that, he's not going to save even a quarter of a trillion.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922
    Foxy said:

    On topic.

    The reason for low score, across the board, is a profound disconnect between politicians and the electorate.

    The politicians do not want to do the things the electorate wants. They want to talk the talk, then walk another walk.

    They are then appalled to find that the electorate does not regard them as trustworthy.

    The things that the electorate wants?

    That's where the reality hits.

    World class public services with low taxes (on them).

    No immigration but well staffed cheap labour intensive services like Social Care, hospitality, and fast food delivery.

    Tough on crime and anti-social behaviour, but no restrictions on them and theirs.

    Etc etc.

    Constructing castles on clouds isn't an easy task. Maybe, just maybe it's not about the quality of our politicians.
    Ah yes.

    The “wrong kind of electorate” approach.

    Perhaps we could amend the Human Rights Act

    “Incompetent, over promoted middle mangers who don’t want to do what the electorate wants, have a basic right to votes.”
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,167
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So who is going to be the party leader at the next election, who runs on doing a zero-based budget as they’re doing in the US?? I’m pretty sure the problem is not quite so bad in the UK, but there’s still going to be plenty of silly-looking line items in the international development and academic research budgets.

    No politician in the US is running on a balanced budget platform.

    The US budget deficit today is around $1.6 trillion.

    Elon Musk has expressed optimism about cutting the budget deficit by $1trillion.
    Which is why I said a zero-based budget rather than a balanced budget!

    Yes the US deficit was totally unsustainable, I’m sure we’ve all worked at companies where the finances have been a mess, new management has come in and suddenly every purchase of a pencil needs justification. My suspicion is that every Western country is going to need to do a similar exercise in the coming years, or face the wrath of the markets.

    In the UK there’s a gap of 6.3% of GDP between tax revenues and government spending. At some point the debt interest is going to be like having another NHS to fund.
    https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/uk/pdf/2025/01/uk-economic-outlook-january-2025.pdf
    Doubtless our Governments will continue to can kick the issue because borrowing to fund spending is a great deal easier than either hiking taxes or slashing spending (as central and local governments, respectively, can attest from recent experience.) I can well imagine that the debt will continue to be racked up, in the manner of a low income household that takes out a new credit card to pay the interest owing on the old one, until gilts spike to an unsustainable yield or the market for them simply dries up.

    It's even possible that ministers might finally run out of alternatives to properly rinsing rich old people in big houses at this point, in which case the scale of screaming would be unprecedented. Though they'd probably scrap the state education system and disband the army before doing anything like that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068
    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Farage is a cert to win in 2028 on these numbers

    Predictable comment from you. What odds are you offering?
    14,900 to one
    So if I bet a tenner, and the aging Brexiteer isn't next PM, you'll pay me £149.9k ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068
    Cicero said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    Poor scores all round; a comment on the state of our politics.

    Davey will be pleased to come top on being honest and in touch with ordinary folk
    Indeed. Davey scores well on most of the questions.
    OGH would say this was significant and potentially more significant than current party ranking. I will repeat my view that Davey and the Lib Dems are likely to make progress, even substantial progress over the current Parliament.
    If the election were to be next month, perhaps.
    I don't know it counts this far out.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 755
    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    Poor scores all round; a comment on the state of our politics.

    Davey will be pleased to come top on being honest and in touch with ordinary folk
    Indeed. Davey scores well on most of the questions.
    OGH would say this was significant and potentially more significant than current party ranking. I will repeat my view that Davey and the Lib Dems are likely to make progress, even substantial progress over the current Parliament.
    I doubt if 20% of the British public can identify Ed Davey by name or face. Indeed, I suspect that, even if they were shown the face of Ed Davey, and they were told, "this is the face of Ed Davey, the leader of the Lib Dems", they would still say Who is that?

    In fact if you put them in a room with Ed Davey for 24 hours, and he sat there shouting "I am Ed Davey, I am the leader of the Lib Dems!!!", I bet at the end of it, they'd say "Who was that weird boring shouty guy in the room with me?"
    And yet what people did see of him at the last election they clearly liked. Nigel Farage's whole media strategy is to shout "I am Nigel Farage and I am Leader of Reform" 24 hours a day. Maybe there's a niche market for someone who doesn't do that.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,099
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    Poor scores all round; a comment on the state of our politics.

    Davey will be pleased to come top on being honest and in touch with ordinary folk
    Surprised Davey is so high. Anyone got the x-tabs/details? Is it just yes/yes+no, i.e. excluding don't knows? Astonished that Davey can get in to the high 30s on anything if it's including don't knows.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,633
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So who is going to be the party leader at the next election, who runs on doing a zero-based budget as they’re doing in the US?? I’m pretty sure the problem is not quite so bad in the UK, but there’s still going to be plenty of silly-looking line items in the international development and academic research budgets.

    No politician in the US is running on a balanced budget platform.

    The US budget deficit today is around $1.6 trillion.

    Elon Musk has expressed optimism about cutting the budget deficit by $1trillion.
    Has he explained how ?
    Because it's not going to be by cutting "waste", without a wholesale redefinition of the term.
    One man's "waste" is another man's "essential funding"
    The polls say that he's already losing approval, fast.

    It's not up to Musk to change (eg) social security, or healthcare entitlements. Or indeed the defence budget.
    That's policy change, and will have to go through Congress. Imposing such things extra-legally is going to make a very big mess indeed.

    Absent any of that, he's not going to save even a quarter of a trillion.
    The "extra legal" bit is where I think a lot of problems will occur

    A bunch of politicians had a press conference outside USAID on Monday saying "You can't do this" while they were inside, doing it...

    Didn't stop them.

    If they're acting on the orders of the President, and Presidential Acts are always legal (Supreme Court) then maybe what they are doing is legal
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,458
    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    Poor scores all round; a comment on the state of our politics.

    Davey will be pleased to come top on being honest and in touch with ordinary folk
    Indeed. Davey scores well on most of the questions.
    OGH would say this was significant and potentially more significant than current party ranking. I will repeat my view that Davey and the Lib Dems are likely to make progress, even substantial progress over the current Parliament.
    I doubt if 20% of the British public can identify Ed Davey by name or face. Indeed, I suspect that, even if they were shown the face of Ed Davey, and they were told, "this is the face of Ed Davey, the leader of the Lib Dems", they would still say Who is that?

    In fact if you put them in a room with Ed Davey for 24 hours, and he sat there shouting "I am Ed Davey, I am the leader of the Lib Dems!!!", I bet at the end of it, they'd say "Who was that weird boring shouty guy in the room with me?"
    I am in the unusual position having met both @Leon and @EdDavey, and it is rather disturbing how similar they are.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068
    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So who is going to be the party leader at the next election, who runs on doing a zero-based budget as they’re doing in the US?? I’m pretty sure the problem is not quite so bad in the UK, but there’s still going to be plenty of silly-looking line items in the international development and academic research budgets.

    No politician in the US is running on a balanced budget platform.

    The US budget deficit today is around $1.6 trillion.

    Elon Musk has expressed optimism about cutting the budget deficit by $1trillion.
    Has he explained how ?
    Because it's not going to be by cutting "waste", without a wholesale redefinition of the term.
    One man's "waste" is another man's "essential funding"
    The polls say that he's already losing approval, fast.

    It's not up to Musk to change (eg) social security, or healthcare entitlements. Or indeed the defence budget.
    That's policy change, and will have to go through Congress. Imposing such things extra-legally is going to make a very big mess indeed.

    Absent any of that, he's not going to save even a quarter of a trillion.
    The "extra legal" bit is where I think a lot of problems will occur

    A bunch of politicians had a press conference outside USAID on Monday saying "You can't do this" while they were inside, doing it...

    Didn't stop them.

    If they're acting on the orders of the President, and Presidential Acts are always legal (Supreme Court) then maybe what they are doing is legal
    It's not. But will take a long time to work through the courts.

    Stuff like USAID is the easy bit, though. Touch voters' entitlements, and shit will get real very quickly.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,617

    The good news for Badenoch and the Tories is that if Badenoch can get a good brand going it might not be all gloom and doom for the Tories.

    Two problems.

    Is she capable of getting a personal brand going?
    (Curiously, this looked like one of her strengths beforehand. Strong backstory (even if it had some holes), simple proposition (even if copying the American right's playbook looks less plausible now.))

    Is she capable of realising how badly things are going for her?

    Meanwhile, yes this is an anonymous piece in an online magazine, but it couldn't be less subtle if the author called themselves Jobert Renwick;

    https://thecritic.co.uk/badenoch-must-go/

    She needs to take my advice and be more modest and self effacing.

    This smacks so strongly of an over-promoted middle manager because, at the end of the day, that’s what she is.

    Kemi’s aggressive personal style means, I suspect, that she has never been corrected at work by colleagues. She probably believes that she doesn’t make gaffes; she probably believes she is some preternatural talent who simply does politics better because she is better. On both counts, she is wrong.
    FWIW I was quite impressed with her TV News interview style last night. But I'm not exactly her target market.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,167

    Foxy said:

    On topic.

    The reason for low score, across the board, is a profound disconnect between politicians and the electorate.

    The politicians do not want to do the things the electorate wants. They want to talk the talk, then walk another walk.

    They are then appalled to find that the electorate does not regard them as trustworthy.

    The things that the electorate wants?

    That's where the reality hits.

    World class public services with low taxes (on them).

    No immigration but well staffed cheap labour intensive services like Social Care, hospitality, and fast food delivery.

    Tough on crime and anti-social behaviour, but no restrictions on them and theirs.

    Etc etc.

    Constructing castles on clouds isn't an easy task. Maybe, just maybe it's not about the quality of our politicians.
    Ah yes.

    The “wrong kind of electorate” approach.

    Perhaps we could amend the Human Rights Act

    “Incompetent, over promoted middle mangers who don’t want to do what the electorate wants, have a basic right to votes.”
    Foxy makes a valid point about cakeist voters. This is an inevitable flaw in democracy, and the reason why IIRC some nineteenth century theorists thought it could never last. Everyone wants the moon on a stick, paid for by other people.

    A low tax economy is possible, but only if you abandon the weak and poor to rot (that's America.) A strong state with good services is possible, but only if everyone is thoroughly rinsed (that's Denmark.) We sit in-between, with high taxes on some but not all of the people, and insufficient money spread too thinly over too many areas, meaning that most of what Government does is expensive and crap at the same time. Britain is a textbook example of how not to manage an advanced economy.

    People must pay for stuff properly or go without, but obviously they want everything for free, and throw a tantrum when told that isn't realistic. So on we go, circling the plughole.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,099
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    Poor scores all round; a comment on the state of our politics.

    Davey will be pleased to come top on being honest and in touch with ordinary folk
    Indeed. Davey scores well on most of the questions.
    OGH would say this was significant and potentially more significant than current party ranking. I will repeat my view that Davey and the Lib Dems are likely to make progress, even substantial progress over the current Parliament.
    I doubt if 20% of the British public can identify Ed Davey by name or face. Indeed, I suspect that, even if they were shown the face of Ed Davey, and they were told, "this is the face of Ed Davey, the leader of the Lib Dems", they would still say Who is that?

    In fact if you put them in a room with Ed Davey for 24 hours, and he sat there shouting "I am Ed Davey, I am the leader of the Lib Dems!!!", I bet at the end of it, they'd say "Who was that weird boring shouty guy in the room with me?"
    I am in the unusual position having met both @Leon and @EdDavey, and it is rather disturbing how similar they are.
    Has the OSB come in yet? I rather fear that comment could cause distress to both parties!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    Poor scores all round; a comment on the state of our politics.

    Davey will be pleased to come top on being honest and in touch with ordinary folk
    Indeed. Davey scores well on most of the questions.
    OGH would say this was significant and potentially more significant than current party ranking. I will repeat my view that Davey and the Lib Dems are likely to make progress, even substantial progress over the current Parliament.
    I doubt if 20% of the British public can identify Ed Davey by name or face. Indeed, I suspect that, even if they were shown the face of Ed Davey, and they were told, "this is the face of Ed Davey, the leader of the Lib Dems", they would still say Who is that?

    In fact if you put them in a room with Ed Davey for 24 hours, and he sat there shouting "I am Ed Davey, I am the leader of the Lib Dems!!!", I bet at the end of it, they'd say "Who was that weird boring shouty guy in the room with me?"
    I am in the unusual position having met both @Leon and @EdDavey, and it is rather disturbing how similar they are.
    Possibly the worst thing anyone has ever said to me. Not just on PB. Anywhere
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068
    .
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    Poor scores all round; a comment on the state of our politics.

    Davey will be pleased to come top on being honest and in touch with ordinary folk
    Indeed. Davey scores well on most of the questions.
    OGH would say this was significant and potentially more significant than current party ranking. I will repeat my view that Davey and the Lib Dems are likely to make progress, even substantial progress over the current Parliament.
    I doubt if 20% of the British public can identify Ed Davey by name or face. Indeed, I suspect that, even if they were shown the face of Ed Davey, and they were told, "this is the face of Ed Davey, the leader of the Lib Dems", they would still say Who is that?

    In fact if you put them in a room with Ed Davey for 24 hours, and he sat there shouting "I am Ed Davey, I am the leader of the Lib Dems!!!", I bet at the end of it, they'd say "Who was that weird boring shouty guy in the room with me?"
    I am in the unusual position having met both @Leon and @EdDavey, and it is rather disturbing how similar they are.
    Both deeply committed family men ?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,619
    Great numbers for Farage, sadly. Great for Davey. Dismal for Badenoch. OK for Starmer.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,711
    Sandpit said:

    So who is going to be the party leader at the next election, who runs on doing a zero-based budget as they’re doing in the US?? I’m pretty sure the problem is not quite so bad in the UK, but there’s still going to be plenty of silly-looking line items in the international development and academic research budgets.

    By "silly-looking line items in the international development", you mean USAID support for Ukraine, presumably?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922
    edited February 6
    pigeon said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic.

    The reason for low score, across the board, is a profound disconnect between politicians and the electorate.

    The politicians do not want to do the things the electorate wants. They want to talk the talk, then walk another walk.

    They are then appalled to find that the electorate does not regard them as trustworthy.

    The things that the electorate wants?

    That's where the reality hits.

    World class public services with low taxes (on them).

    No immigration but well staffed cheap labour intensive services like Social Care, hospitality, and fast food delivery.

    Tough on crime and anti-social behaviour, but no restrictions on them and theirs.

    Etc etc.

    Constructing castles on clouds isn't an easy task. Maybe, just maybe it's not about the quality of our politicians.
    Ah yes.

    The “wrong kind of electorate” approach.

    Perhaps we could amend the Human Rights Act

    “Incompetent, over promoted middle mangers who don’t want to do what the electorate wants, have a basic right to votes.”
    Foxy makes a valid point about cakeist voters. This is an inevitable flaw in democracy, and the reason why IIRC some nineteenth century theorists thought it could never last. Everyone wants the moon on a stick, paid for by other people.

    A low tax economy is possible, but only if you abandon the weak and poor to rot (that's America.) A strong state with good services is possible, but only if everyone is thoroughly rinsed (that's Denmark.) We sit in-between, with high taxes on some but not all of the people, and insufficient money spread too thinly over too many areas, meaning that most of what Government does is expensive and crap at the same time. Britain is a textbook example of how not to manage an advanced economy.

    People must pay for stuff properly or go without, but obviously they want everything for free, and throw a tantrum when told that isn't realistic. So on we go, circling the plughole.
    And yet the politicians, essentially, deny that anything must be changed, except the tax take.

    The problem is, that in many areas, the only solution is 10 years and a billion for an indifferent result.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 792
    pigeon said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic.

    The reason for low score, across the board, is a profound disconnect between politicians and the electorate.

    The politicians do not want to do the things the electorate wants. They want to talk the talk, then walk another walk.

    They are then appalled to find that the electorate does not regard them as trustworthy.

    The things that the electorate wants?

    That's where the reality hits.

    World class public services with low taxes (on them).

    No immigration but well staffed cheap labour intensive services like Social Care, hospitality, and fast food delivery.

    Tough on crime and anti-social behaviour, but no restrictions on them and theirs.

    Etc etc.

    Constructing castles on clouds isn't an easy task. Maybe, just maybe it's not about the quality of our politicians.
    Ah yes.

    The “wrong kind of electorate” approach.

    Perhaps we could amend the Human Rights Act

    “Incompetent, over promoted middle mangers who don’t want to do what the electorate wants, have a basic right to votes.”
    Foxy makes a valid point about cakeist voters. This is an inevitable flaw in democracy, and the reason why IIRC some nineteenth century theorists thought it could never last. Everyone wants the moon on a stick, paid for by other people.

    A low tax economy is possible, but only if you abandon the weak and poor to rot (that's America.) A strong state with good services is possible, but only if everyone is thoroughly rinsed (that's Denmark.) We sit in-between, with high taxes on some but not all of the people, and insufficient money spread too thinly over too many areas, meaning that most of what Government does is expensive and crap at the same time. Britain is a textbook example of how not to manage an advanced economy.

    People must pay for stuff properly or go without, but obviously they want everything for free, and throw a tantrum when told that isn't realistic. So on we go, circling the plughole.
    As the US population are about to find out, the "weak and poor" segment increases to engulf those who thought they were safe.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,423
    Leon said:

    One of Badenoch's multiple problems is that Jenrick is proving so much better at Opposition than her. He knows how to use social media, he makes barbed and articulate remarks, he's crisp and eloquent, he's plausible, punchy and papabile

    Every rightwinger can look across and think Shit, we chose the wrong guy

    And I fear they did. Badenoch was a bet - which on balance I favoured - but she was always a bet. She has one year to improve but then the Tories need Jenrick. Who cares if he is a dodgy chancer with odious tendencies, he's a politician and he just has to beat the shit out of Starmer, who is grotesque, treacherous and inept

    Not quite. To have two parties, generally seen as being of the right, led by dodgy chancers is to invite a split in the vote which at the very least lets back in a centre left alliance. So far there are probably some trad Tories sticking with the party (they are more persistent than me). There won't be under Jenrick.

    Starmer has his limits - culturally he presents as having neither the lights on nor being at home - though he is neither grotesque nor treacherous, but up against Jenrick he is the stuff of heroism.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    Will Elon fail in his downsizing of the USG?

    It's exactly what he did at Twitter. And, it seems, he is slowly beginning to turn TwiX around

    Revenue is slashed, but costs are slashed even more, and now it begins to grow again


    https://x.com/Austen/status/1887363437518270757
  • Driver said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    I don't like the misleading way this polling is reported without showing don't knows
    eg 'An honest person' is in fact:

    Starmer Yes 31% No 46% Don't know 23% Net -15%
    Badenoch Yes 21% No 37% Don't know 43% Net -16%
    Farage Yes 24% No 50% Don't know 26% Net -26%
    Davey Yes 37% No 22% Don't know 41% Net +15%

    Badenoch's net 'honest person' is actually better than Farage's, and Davey's 37% is even more impressive given the numbers saying 'Don't know'

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2025-01/Ipsos January 2025_Political Pulse_Data Tables_PUBLIC_0.pdf

    Net for 'Shares my values' are bad though:

    Starmer -31%
    Badenoch -32%
    Farage -27%
    Davey -6%
    Which overall seems to cast the opinion of Badenoch as "probably just another politician until proven otherwise". Whether the irreconcilables like Jenrick and TSE will give her the time and space to have a chance to prove otherwise is a different question.
    There you go again, I voted for Badenoch and have said she should be given time, the issue is will the party give her time?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,619
    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    True but it needs repeating all the time: elections are zero sum. The best, or the least bad, wins. Farage does the best here sadly.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,900

    Driver said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    I don't like the misleading way this polling is reported without showing don't knows
    eg 'An honest person' is in fact:

    Starmer Yes 31% No 46% Don't know 23% Net -15%
    Badenoch Yes 21% No 37% Don't know 43% Net -16%
    Farage Yes 24% No 50% Don't know 26% Net -26%
    Davey Yes 37% No 22% Don't know 41% Net +15%

    Badenoch's net 'honest person' is actually better than Farage's, and Davey's 37% is even more impressive given the numbers saying 'Don't know'

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2025-01/Ipsos January 2025_Political Pulse_Data Tables_PUBLIC_0.pdf

    Net for 'Shares my values' are bad though:

    Starmer -31%
    Badenoch -32%
    Farage -27%
    Davey -6%
    Which overall seems to cast the opinion of Badenoch as "probably just another politician until proven otherwise". Whether the irreconcilables like Jenrick and TSE will give her the time and space to have a chance to prove otherwise is a different question.
    There you go again, I voted for Badenoch and have said she should be given time, the issue is will the party give her time?
    Even TSE would make a better Tory leader than the Kembot!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,423
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So who is going to be the party leader at the next election, who runs on doing a zero-based budget as they’re doing in the US?? I’m pretty sure the problem is not quite so bad in the UK, but there’s still going to be plenty of silly-looking line items in the international development and academic research budgets.

    No politician in the US is running on a balanced budget platform.

    The US budget deficit today is around $1.6 trillion.

    Elon Musk has expressed optimism about cutting the budget deficit by $1trillion.
    Has he explained how ?
    Because it's not going to be by cutting "waste", without a wholesale redefinition of the term.
    One man's "waste" is another man's "essential funding"
    The polls say that he's already losing approval, fast.

    It's not up to Musk to change (eg) social security, or healthcare entitlements. Or indeed the defence budget.
    That's policy change, and will have to go through Congress. Imposing such things extra-legally is going to make a very big mess indeed.

    Absent any of that, he's not going to save even a quarter of a trillion.
    The "extra legal" bit is where I think a lot of problems will occur

    A bunch of politicians had a press conference outside USAID on Monday saying "You can't do this" while they were inside, doing it...

    Didn't stop them.

    If they're acting on the orders of the President, and Presidential Acts are always legal (Supreme Court) then maybe what they are doing is legal
    It's not. But will take a long time to work through the courts.

    Stuff like USAID is the easy bit, though. Touch voters' entitlements, and shit will get real very quickly.
    American law is an unknown to me, but there is obviously lots of it, and lots of lawyers for every taste, just like here but more so. So far it gives the impression that they have never heard of interlocutory injunctions or judicial review of executive action.

    In the UK no government or government agency could rebuke a long eared bat without finding itself injuncted. What on earth is going on across the pond?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,182
    Leon said:

    Will Elon fail in his downsizing of the USG?

    It's exactly what he did at Twitter. And, it seems, he is slowly beginning to turn TwiX around

    Revenue is slashed, but costs are slashed even more, and now it begins to grow again


    https://x.com/Austen/status/1887363437518270757

    Whether he right or wrong on costs is not the main point. The key question is it is legal?
    Congress created USAID for example and it is definitely a moot point whether a non-elected official can simply close it on presidential whim.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,900
    Leon said:

    Will Elon fail in his downsizing of the USG?

    It's exactly what he did at Twitter. And, it seems, he is slowly beginning to turn TwiX around

    Revenue is slashed, but costs are slashed even more, and now it begins to grow again


    https://x.com/Austen/status/1887363437518270757

    Elon Musk = Leon Skum.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417

    Leon said:

    Will Elon fail in his downsizing of the USG?

    It's exactly what he did at Twitter. And, it seems, he is slowly beginning to turn TwiX around

    Revenue is slashed, but costs are slashed even more, and now it begins to grow again


    https://x.com/Austen/status/1887363437518270757

    Whether he right or wrong on costs is not the main point. The key question is it is legal?
    Congress created USAID for example and it is definitely a moot point whether a non-elected official can simply close it on presidential whim.
    Well, let's hope so. We all need Elon to win this battle. so it can then be done in the UK
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,950
    Battlebus said:

    FPT

    Someone mentioned Santorini and earthquakes. Sat through a tremor in a restaurant in Greece a few years ago. Strange feeling where you think something is happening but no one moves. Meanwhile further down the road, a pothole to beat all potholes.


    Surely that’s crack not pot?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Nigelb said:

    OTOH, California has some serious fat to cut.
    Newsom has zero change against someone like Shapiro for the nomination, if he doesn't sort this sort of shit out.

    This is actually insane. The 119 Mile, on flat land, Merced to Bakersfield part of the California HSR, totally planned and in progress literally for decades, will not be finished for at least 11 years. Can we get the
    @_brianpotter deep dive on what the hell they are doing?

    https://x.com/Afinetheorem/status/1887298279001759956

    The only rail project that makes HS2 look like a paragon of efficiency and budgeting.

    Yes it’s a technically difficult project, there’s seismic activity and the run-in to the city at either end is complicated, but the middle bit highlighted here should be simple, except they suffer from many of the same issues that plague UK infrastructure projects, from land acquisition to environmentalism and NIMBYism.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,794

    Sandpit said:

    So who is going to be the party leader at the next election, who runs on doing a zero-based budget as they’re doing in the US?? I’m pretty sure the problem is not quite so bad in the UK, but there’s still going to be plenty of silly-looking line items in the international development and academic research budgets.

    By "silly-looking line items in the international development", you mean USAID support for Ukraine, presumably?
    'silly-looking' ie not silly but twisted to look silly by spreaders of misinformation, which sadly recently includes @sandpit
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,619
    Summing up Badenoch from this survey. She's the callow youth, without actually being a youth.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,828
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So who is going to be the party leader at the next election, who runs on doing a zero-based budget as they’re doing in the US?? I’m pretty sure the problem is not quite so bad in the UK, but there’s still going to be plenty of silly-looking line items in the international development and academic research budgets.

    No politician in the US is running on a balanced budget platform.

    The US budget deficit today is around $1.6 trillion.

    Elon Musk has expressed optimism about cutting the budget deficit by $1trillion.
    Has he explained how ?
    Because it's not going to be by cutting "waste", without a wholesale redefinition of the term.
    One man's "waste" is another man's "essential funding"
    The polls say that he's already losing approval, fast.

    It's not up to Musk to change (eg) social security, or healthcare entitlements. Or indeed the defence budget.
    That's policy change, and will have to go through Congress. Imposing such things extra-legally is going to make a very big mess indeed.

    Absent any of that, he's not going to save even a quarter of a trillion.
    The "extra legal" bit is where I think a lot of problems will occur

    A bunch of politicians had a press conference outside USAID on Monday saying "You can't do this" while they were inside, doing it...

    Didn't stop them.

    If they're acting on the orders of the President, and Presidential Acts are always legal (Supreme Court) then maybe what they are doing is legal
    It's not. But will take a long time to work through the courts.

    Stuff like USAID is the easy bit, though. Touch voters' entitlements, and shit will get real very quickly.
    American law is an unknown to me, but there is obviously lots of it, and lots of lawyers for every taste, just like here but more so. So far it gives the impression that they have never heard of interlocutory injunctions or judicial review of executive action.

    In the UK no government or government agency could rebuke a long eared bat without finding itself injuncted. What on earth is going on across the pond?
    Leon said:

    Will Elon fail in his downsizing of the USG?

    It's exactly what he did at Twitter. And, it seems, he is slowly beginning to turn TwiX around

    Revenue is slashed, but costs are slashed even more, and now it begins to grow again


    https://x.com/Austen/status/1887363437518270757

    It'll probably try and bite back but Elon is cutting through the deep state lawyerocracy. That's what's going on.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,828
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    OTOH, California has some serious fat to cut.
    Newsom has zero change against someone like Shapiro for the nomination, if he doesn't sort this sort of shit out.

    This is actually insane. The 119 Mile, on flat land, Merced to Bakersfield part of the California HSR, totally planned and in progress literally for decades, will not be finished for at least 11 years. Can we get the
    @_brianpotter deep dive on what the hell they are doing?

    https://x.com/Afinetheorem/status/1887298279001759956

    The only rail project that makes HS2 look like a paragon of efficiency and budgeting.

    Yes it’s a technically difficult project, there’s seismic activity and the run-in to the city at either end is complicated, but the middle bit highlighted here should be simple, except they suffer from many of the same issues that plague UK infrastructure projects, from land acquisition to environmentalism and NIMBYism.
    Probably find it's subcontracting DEI hires or something like that.
  • hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 678
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    One of Badenoch's multiple problems is that Jenrick is proving so much better at Opposition than her. He knows how to use social media, he makes barbed and articulate remarks, he's crisp and eloquent, he's plausible, punchy and papabile

    Every rightwinger can look across and think Shit, we chose the wrong guy

    And I fear they did. Badenoch was a bet - which on balance I favoured - but she was always a bet. She has one year to improve but then the Tories need Jenrick. Who cares if he is a dodgy chancer with odious tendencies, he's a politician and he just has to beat the shit out of Starmer, who is grotesque, treacherous and inept

    Not quite. To have two parties, generally seen as being of the right, led by dodgy chancers is to invite a split in the vote which at the very least lets back in a centre left alliance. So far there are probably some trad Tories sticking with the party (they are more persistent than me). There won't be under Jenrick.

    Starmer has his limits - culturally he presents as having neither the lights on nor being at home - though he is neither grotesque nor treacherous, but up against Jenrick he is the stuff of heroism.
    I have listened to Badenoch a couple of times on radio and she seems to be a fair person. She is not internet savvy and this is an issue in the modern world. I am not sure at the moment there is much the Tories can do to stop the Reform juggernaut but wait and hope it implodes. So many of today's problems such as the economy, benefits and immigration started with them and they have yet to take responsibility.

    I suggested a few weeks ago that all of the leaders of Labour, Tory and Reform will be gone before next election and the only question is which order.





  • Good morning

    Ed Davey is not going to be PM and I doubt Farage will be either

    I expect Kemi will fight the next election, not least as Jenrick is simply in the wrong party

    I have no idea whether Starmer will fight the next election

    Ultimately nobody has a clue, and now we have Trump in office and each morning the question is

    'what on earth has he done now'

    Apparently he is not going to the G20 meeting in South Africa

    Uncertainty reigns and it may not end in 2028 if Vance wins
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,125
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    Poor scores all round; a comment on the state of our politics.

    Davey will be pleased to come top on being honest and in touch with ordinary folk
    Indeed. Davey scores well on most of the questions.
    OGH would say this was significant and potentially more significant than current party ranking. I will repeat my view that Davey and the Lib Dems are likely to make progress, even substantial progress over the current Parliament.
    I doubt if 20% of the British public can identify Ed Davey by name or face. Indeed, I suspect that, even if they were shown the face of Ed Davey, and they were told, "this is the face of Ed Davey, the leader of the Lib Dems", they would still say Who is that?

    In fact if you put them in a room with Ed Davey for 24 hours, and he sat there shouting "I am Ed Davey, I am the leader of the Lib Dems!!!", I bet at the end of it, they'd say "Who was that weird boring shouty guy in the room with me?"
    I am in the unusual position having met both @Leon and @EdDavey, and it is rather disturbing how similar they are.
    Possibly the worst thing anyone has ever said to me. Not just on PB. Anywhere
    Trust me, you've heard worse. It's just you don't speak Thai.
    "มันเล็กมาก"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417

    Good morning

    Ed Davey is not going to be PM and I doubt Farage will be either

    I expect Kemi will fight the next election, not least as Jenrick is simply in the wrong party

    I have no idea whether Starmer will fight the next election

    Ultimately nobody has a clue, and now we have Trump in office and each morning the question is

    'what on earth has he done now'

    Apparently he is not going to the G20 meeting in South Africa

    Uncertainty reigns and it may not end in 2028 if Vance wins

    It's not gonna end. The USA as we have known it will not return
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 792
    Leon said:

    Will Elon fail in his downsizing of the USG?

    It's exactly what he did at Twitter. And, it seems, he is slowly beginning to turn TwiX around

    Revenue is slashed, but costs are slashed even more, and now it begins to grow again


    https://x.com/Austen/status/1887363437518270757

    Bonds are being sold on at a yield of 11% and report is that investors' confidence is up because he's in with Trump so TwiX could get some lucrative deals, not because the business has been turned around.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,955

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    One of Badenoch's multiple problems is that Jenrick is proving so much better at Opposition than her. He knows how to use social media, he makes barbed and articulate remarks, he's crisp and eloquent, he's plausible, punchy and papabile

    Every rightwinger can look across and think Shit, we chose the wrong guy

    And I fear they did. Badenoch was a bet - which on balance I favoured - but she was always a bet. She has one year to improve but then the Tories need Jenrick. Who cares if he is a dodgy chancer with odious tendencies, he's a politician and he just has to beat the shit out of Starmer, who is grotesque, treacherous and inept

    Not quite. To have two parties, generally seen as being of the right, led by dodgy chancers is to invite a split in the vote which at the very least lets back in a centre left alliance. So far there are probably some trad Tories sticking with the party (they are more persistent than me). There won't be under Jenrick.

    Starmer has his limits - culturally he presents as having neither the lights on nor being at home - though he is neither grotesque nor treacherous, but up against Jenrick he is the stuff of heroism.
    I have listened to Badenoch a couple of times on radio and she seems to be a fair person. She is not internet savvy and this is an issue in the modern world. I am not sure at the moment there is much the Tories can do to stop the Reform juggernaut but wait and hope it implodes. So many of today's problems such as the economy, benefits and immigration started with them and they have yet to take responsibility.

    I suggested a few weeks ago that all of the leaders of Labour, Tory and Reform will be gone before next election and the only question is which order.





    One of Badenoch's problems is she's too online, and the right now have the problem the left had a while ago but arguably much worse given kind of do not have the natural immunity imbued by losing a lot, in terms of assuming Twitter is the country and applause on there being a substitute for substance and well reasoned positions.
  • Driver said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    I don't like the misleading way this polling is reported without showing don't knows
    eg 'An honest person' is in fact:

    Starmer Yes 31% No 46% Don't know 23% Net -15%
    Badenoch Yes 21% No 37% Don't know 43% Net -16%
    Farage Yes 24% No 50% Don't know 26% Net -26%
    Davey Yes 37% No 22% Don't know 41% Net +15%

    Badenoch's net 'honest person' is actually better than Farage's, and Davey's 37% is even more impressive given the numbers saying 'Don't know'

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2025-01/Ipsos January 2025_Political Pulse_Data Tables_PUBLIC_0.pdf

    Net for 'Shares my values' are bad though:

    Starmer -31%
    Badenoch -32%
    Farage -27%
    Davey -6%
    Which overall seems to cast the opinion of Badenoch as "probably just another politician until proven otherwise". Whether the irreconcilables like Jenrick and TSE will give her the time and space to have a chance to prove otherwise is a different question.
    There you go again, I voted for Badenoch and have said she should be given time, the issue is will the party give her time?
    Even TSE would make a better Tory leader than the Kembot!
    I wouldn’t go that far.

    She got into trouble for her interview where she denounced sandwich eaters, I would have got into even more trouble when I denounced people who put pineapple on pizza.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,950
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    One of Badenoch's multiple problems is that Jenrick is proving so much better at Opposition than her. He knows how to use social media, he makes barbed and articulate remarks, he's crisp and eloquent, he's plausible, punchy and papabile

    Every rightwinger can look across and think Shit, we chose the wrong guy

    And I fear they did. Badenoch was a bet - which on balance I favoured - but she was always a bet. She has one year to improve but then the Tories need Jenrick. Who cares if he is a dodgy chancer with odious tendencies, he's a politician and he just has to beat the shit out of Starmer, who is grotesque, treacherous and inept

    Not quite. To have two parties, generally seen as being of the right, led by dodgy chancers is to invite a split in the vote which at the very least lets back in a centre left alliance. So far there are probably some trad Tories sticking with the party (they are more persistent than me). There won't be under Jenrick.

    Starmer has his limits - culturally he presents as having neither the lights on nor being at home - though he is neither
    grotesque nor treacherous, but up against
    Jenrick he is the stuff of heroism.
    I would not vote for Jenrick.

    Poverty of ambition

    If you are going to sell yourself like he did to Desmond you should at least get a decent price

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,198

    Driver said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    I don't like the misleading way this polling is reported without showing don't knows
    eg 'An honest person' is in fact:

    Starmer Yes 31% No 46% Don't know 23% Net -15%
    Badenoch Yes 21% No 37% Don't know 43% Net -16%
    Farage Yes 24% No 50% Don't know 26% Net -26%
    Davey Yes 37% No 22% Don't know 41% Net +15%

    Badenoch's net 'honest person' is actually better than Farage's, and Davey's 37% is even more impressive given the numbers saying 'Don't know'

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2025-01/Ipsos January 2025_Political Pulse_Data Tables_PUBLIC_0.pdf

    Net for 'Shares my values' are bad though:

    Starmer -31%
    Badenoch -32%
    Farage -27%
    Davey -6%
    Which overall seems to cast the opinion of Badenoch as "probably just another politician until proven otherwise". Whether the irreconcilables like Jenrick and TSE will give her the time and space to have a chance to prove otherwise is a different question.
    There you go again, I voted for Badenoch and have said she should be given time, the issue is will the party give her time?
    Even TSE would make a better Tory leader than the Kembot!
    I wouldn’t go that far.

    She got into trouble for her interview where she denounced sandwich eaters, I would have got into even more trouble when I denounced people who put pineapple on pizza.
    What about people who put pineapple on pizza and then use that as a sandwich filling?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,473

    Good morning

    Ed Davey is not going to be PM and I doubt Farage will be either

    I expect Kemi will fight the next election, not least as Jenrick is simply in the wrong party

    I have no idea whether Starmer will fight the next election

    Ultimately nobody has a clue, and now we have Trump in office and each morning the question is

    'what on earth has he done now'

    Apparently he is not going to the G20 meeting in South Africa

    Uncertainty reigns and it may not end in 2028 if Vance wins

    Not going to the G20 in South Africa doesn't strike me as massively controversial. It seems to be largely a massive kleptocracy - like Zimbabwe under Mugabe, only bigger.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,711

    Driver said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    I don't like the misleading way this polling is reported without showing don't knows
    eg 'An honest person' is in fact:

    Starmer Yes 31% No 46% Don't know 23% Net -15%
    Badenoch Yes 21% No 37% Don't know 43% Net -16%
    Farage Yes 24% No 50% Don't know 26% Net -26%
    Davey Yes 37% No 22% Don't know 41% Net +15%

    Badenoch's net 'honest person' is actually better than Farage's, and Davey's 37% is even more impressive given the numbers saying 'Don't know'

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2025-01/Ipsos January 2025_Political Pulse_Data Tables_PUBLIC_0.pdf

    Net for 'Shares my values' are bad though:

    Starmer -31%
    Badenoch -32%
    Farage -27%
    Davey -6%
    Which overall seems to cast the opinion of Badenoch as "probably just another politician until proven otherwise". Whether the irreconcilables like Jenrick and TSE will give her the time and space to have a chance to prove otherwise is a different question.
    There you go again, I voted for Badenoch and have said she should be given time, the issue is will the party give her time?
    Even TSE would make a better Tory leader than the Kembot!
    I wouldn’t go that far.

    She got into trouble for her interview where she denounced sandwich eaters, I would have got into even more trouble when I denounced people who put pineapple on pizza.
    What about people who put pineapple on pizza and then use that as a sandwich filling?
    Isn't a pizza just an open sandwich?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,768
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    Poor scores all round; a comment on the state of our politics.

    Davey will be pleased to come top on being honest and in touch with ordinary folk
    Indeed. Davey scores well on most of the questions.
    OGH would say this was significant and potentially more significant than current party ranking. I will repeat my view that Davey and the Lib Dems are likely to make progress, even substantial progress over the current Parliament.
    I doubt if 20% of the British public can identify Ed Davey by name or face. Indeed, I suspect that, even if they were shown the face of Ed Davey, and they were told, "this is the face of Ed Davey, the leader of the Lib Dems", they would still say Who is that?

    In fact if you put them in a room with Ed Davey for 24 hours, and he sat there shouting "I am Ed Davey, I am the leader of the Lib Dems!!!", I bet at the end of it, they'd say "Who was that weird boring shouty guy in the room with me?"
    I am in the unusual position having met both @Leon and @EdDavey, and it is rather disturbing how similar they are.
    Both being in rather over filled wetsuits may have caused the confusion.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,950
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So who is going to be the party leader at the next election, who runs on doing a zero-based budget as they’re doing in the US?? I’m pretty sure the problem is not quite so bad in the UK, but there’s still going to be plenty of silly-looking line items in the international development and academic research budgets.

    No politician in the US is running on a balanced budget platform.

    The US budget deficit today is around $1.6 trillion.

    Elon Musk has expressed optimism about cutting the budget deficit by $1trillion.
    Has he explained how ?
    Because it's not going to be by cutting "waste", without a wholesale redefinition of the term.
    One man's "waste" is another man's "essential funding"
    The polls say that he's already losing approval, fast.

    It's not up to Musk to change (eg) social security, or healthcare entitlements. Or indeed the defence budget.
    That's policy change, and will have to go through Congress. Imposing such things extra-legally is going to make a very big mess indeed.

    Absent any of that, he's not going to save even a quarter of a trillion.
    The "extra legal" bit is where I think a lot of problems will occur

    A bunch of politicians had a press conference outside USAID on Monday saying "You can't do this" while they were inside, doing it...

    Didn't stop them.

    If they're acting on the orders of the President, and Presidential Acts are always legal (Supreme Court) then maybe what they are doing is legal
    It's not. But will take a long time to work through the courts.

    Stuff like USAID is the easy bit, though. Touch voters' entitlements, and shit will get real very quickly.
    American law is an unknown to me, but there is obviously lots of it, and lots of lawyers for every taste, just like here but more so. So far it gives the impression that they have never heard of interlocutory injunctions or judicial review of executive action.


    In the UK no government or government agency could rebuke a long eared bat without finding itself injuncted. What on earth is going on across the pond?
    They are getting injuncted. And ignoring the courts
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922

    Driver said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    I don't like the misleading way this polling is reported without showing don't knows
    eg 'An honest person' is in fact:

    Starmer Yes 31% No 46% Don't know 23% Net -15%
    Badenoch Yes 21% No 37% Don't know 43% Net -16%
    Farage Yes 24% No 50% Don't know 26% Net -26%
    Davey Yes 37% No 22% Don't know 41% Net +15%

    Badenoch's net 'honest person' is actually better than Farage's, and Davey's 37% is even more impressive given the numbers saying 'Don't know'

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2025-01/Ipsos January 2025_Political Pulse_Data Tables_PUBLIC_0.pdf

    Net for 'Shares my values' are bad though:

    Starmer -31%
    Badenoch -32%
    Farage -27%
    Davey -6%
    Which overall seems to cast the opinion of Badenoch as "probably just another politician until proven otherwise". Whether the irreconcilables like Jenrick and TSE will give her the time and space to have a chance to prove otherwise is a different question.
    There you go again, I voted for Badenoch and have said she should be given time, the issue is will the party give her time?
    Even TSE would make a better Tory leader than the Kembot!
    I wouldn’t go that far.

    She got into trouble for her interview where she denounced sandwich eaters, I would have got into even more trouble when I denounced people who put pineapple on pizza.
    What about people who put pineapple on pizza and then use that as a sandwich filling?
    Hawaiian Calzone ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,555
    Badenoch may not have a particularly strong image but then on those charts neither does Starmer, indeed Davey and Farage have the strongest images.

    Yet Badenoch doesn't have the negative image Farage has either so can grow into the role
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    Poor scores all round; a comment on the state of our politics.

    Davey will be pleased to come top on being honest and in touch with ordinary folk
    Indeed. Davey scores well on most of the questions.
    OGH would say this was significant and potentially more significant than current party ranking. I will repeat my view that Davey and the Lib Dems are likely to make progress, even substantial progress over the current Parliament.
    I doubt if 20% of the British public can identify Ed Davey by name or face. Indeed, I suspect that, even if they were shown the face of Ed Davey, and they were told, "this is the face of Ed Davey, the leader of the Lib Dems", they would still say Who is that?

    In fact if you put them in a room with Ed Davey for 24 hours, and he sat there shouting "I am Ed Davey, I am the leader of the Lib Dems!!!", I bet at the end of it, they'd say "Who was that weird boring shouty guy in the room with me?"
    I am in the unusual position having met both @Leon and @EdDavey, and it is rather disturbing how similar they are.
    Possibly the worst thing anyone has ever said to me. Not just on PB. Anywhere
    Trust me, you've heard worse. It's just you don't speak Thai.
    "มันเล็กมาก"
    Mostly I hear

    ใหญ่เกินไป
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,125
    Leon said:

    Will Elon fail in his downsizing of the USG?

    It's exactly what he did at Twitter. And, it seems, he is slowly beginning to turn TwiX around

    Revenue is slashed, but costs are slashed even more, and now it begins to grow again


    https://x.com/Austen/status/1887363437518270757

    Musk is bring played by Trump - set up to fail with an impossible task, while acting as a lightning rod for public dissatisfaction, and all the while paying for the privilege. The falling out will be spectacular, and Musk will be the loser from it.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,420
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Riddle me this PB:

    Why are we giving away the Chagos Islands and paying THEM £18bn for the privilege?

    Is that the worse deal in history or is there actually some logic behind it?

    Bloomberg have the explanation for the logic.

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/1887203226044539166
    Ben Wallace (former Def Sec) seems to have immediately posted that this is all fabricated.

    Even if it isn't it deifies the purity of international law whilst ignoring that old adage that possession is nine tenths of the law.

    We shouldn't be naive about the power politics that's played out through UN agencies and the ICJ and Mauritius should be told the islands will stay British forever, there will never be a deal, and we should up our naval presence there on top.
    I do wonder what military and communication resources China has in Tibet... ;)
    We are living in an age of blood and steel, I'm afraid - just look at what Trump has been able to achieve in less than a month from shaking his stick around - and I see little benefit to Britain walking into that naked with a broken cricket bat.
    What exactly has Trump achieved in his first 3 weeks?
    Well, he's burnt down about 75 years of built up political capital in a fortnight.

    He's wrecked the reputation of the USA as a stable, reliable, trustworthy country.

    And he's running an action learning experiment in what can happen when the Rule of Law is removed from an advanced country.

    ...and his ratings went up. ☹️
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,950
    edited February 6

    Driver said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Pretty damning scores.

    No one gets much more than a quarter of voters under "shares our values"

    I don't like the misleading way this polling is reported without showing don't knows
    eg 'An honest person' is in fact:

    Starmer Yes 31% No 46% Don't know 23% Net -15%
    Badenoch Yes 21% No 37% Don't know 43% Net -16%
    Farage Yes 24% No 50% Don't know 26% Net -26%
    Davey Yes 37% No 22% Don't know 41% Net +15%

    Badenoch's net 'honest person' is actually better than Farage's, and Davey's 37% is even more impressive given the numbers saying 'Don't know'

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2025-01/Ipsos January 2025_Political Pulse_Data Tables_PUBLIC_0.pdf

    Net for 'Shares my values' are bad though:

    Starmer -31%
    Badenoch -32%
    Farage -27%
    Davey -6%
    Which overall seems to cast the opinion of Badenoch as "probably just another politician until proven otherwise". Whether the irreconcilables like Jenrick and TSE will give her the time and space to have a chance to prove otherwise is a different question.
    There you go again, I voted for Badenoch and have said she should be given time, the issue is will the party give her time?
    Even TSE would make a better Tory leader than the Kembot!
    I wouldn’t go that far.

    She got into trouble for her interview where she denounced sandwich eaters, I would have got into even more trouble when I denounced people who put pineapple on pizza.
    What about people who put pineapple on pizza and then use that as a sandwich
    filling?
    Hawaiian Calzone ?
    Sounds like an eruption waiting to happen

    (Richard Attenborough voice)

    We are here… at the edge of the Hawaiian Calzone… waiting for the moment of truth. You can see the lava bubbling quietly and smell the sulphur in the air… the person who added pineapple to the mix bears great responsibility for the inevitable devastation that will follow—-
This discussion has been closed.