That's an enormous amount of usable nuclear fuel. And nuclear experts who can say whether or not it's economically more beneficial to use it in reactors ?
The UK government has announced that the country's stockpile of some 140 tonnes of civil plutonium - currently stored at the Sellafield site in Cumbria - will be immobilised and eventually disposed of in a geological disposal facility https://x.com/W_Nuclear_News/status/1882830251568599433
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Surely if we want to incentivise food production there are better ways than a tax break that was clearly being abused by some very wealthy people to avoid paying inheritance tax.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Then subsidise the output of farms not the act of owning farmland. Then tenant farmers benefit too.
Yes, that is part of it, too. However, if you introduce taxes that mean continued ownership of the land becomes more expensive, even over the long term, you will end up concentrating the ownership of land in an even smaller group of people.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Then subsidise the output of farms not the act of owning farmland. Then tenant farmers benefit too.
Yes, that is part of it, too. However, if you introduce taxes that mean continued ownership of the land becomes more expensive, even over the long term, you will end up concentrating the ownership of land in an even smaller group of people.
Not if it’s offset by increased operating profits through other subsidies or tax policies, it does not. Contrary to popular belief I am a big supporter of British agriculture, in my own small way. I go out of my way to buy British grown or reared food, at a price premium usually. I just fundamentally don’t agree with policies that reward (by way of a tax exemption) asset rich people for simply being asset rich in the first place.
The end result will be a concentration of wealth in an even smaller group of people whose descendants can afford the regular inheritance tax bills.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Surely if we want to incentivise food production there are better ways than a tax break that was clearly being abused by some very wealthy people to avoid paying inheritance tax.
As I mentioned in a separate reply, there are of course other aspects that incentivise it. However, this will be a pretty big disincentive for some!
The tax avoidance could have been cracked down on with a targeted policy, not something that affects farmers who legitimately work their land.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Then subsidise the output of farms not the act of owning farmland. Then tenant farmers benefit too.
Yes, that is part of it, too. However, if you introduce taxes that mean continued ownership of the land becomes more expensive, even over the long term, you will end up concentrating the ownership of land in an even smaller group of people.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Then subsidise the output of farms not the act of owning farmland. Then tenant farmers benefit too.
Yes, that is part of it, too. However, if you introduce taxes that mean continued ownership of the land becomes more expensive, even over the long term, you will end up concentrating the ownership of land in an even smaller group of people.
Not if it’s offset by increased operating profits through other subsidies or tax policies, it does not. Contrary to popular belief I am a big supporter of British agriculture, in my own small way. I go out of my way to buy British grown or reared food, at a price premium usually. I just fundamentally don’t agree with policies that reward (by way of a tax exemption) asset rich people for simply being asset rich in the first place.
The end result will be a concentration of wealth in an even smaller group of people whose descendants can afford the regular inheritance tax bills.
I mean, that’s just capitalism. But regardless, you ignored my proposed mitigation of that of subsidising output of farms in other ways.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Then subsidise the output of farms not the act of owning farmland. Then tenant farmers benefit too.
Yes, that is part of it, too. However, if you introduce taxes that mean continued ownership of the land becomes more expensive, even over the long term, you will end up concentrating the ownership of land in an even smaller group of people.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Then subsidise the output of farms not the act of owning farmland. Then tenant farmers benefit too.
Yes, that is part of it, too. However, if you introduce taxes that mean continued ownership of the land becomes more expensive, even over the long term, you will end up concentrating the ownership of land in an even smaller group of people.
Not if it’s offset by increased operating profits through other subsidies or tax policies, it does not. Contrary to popular belief I am a big supporter of British agriculture, in my own small way. I go out of my way to buy British grown or reared food, at a price premium usually. I just fundamentally don’t agree with policies that reward (by way of a tax exemption) asset rich people for simply being asset rich in the first place.
The end result will be a concentration of wealth in an even smaller group of people whose descendants can afford the regular inheritance tax bills.
I mean, that’s just capitalism. But regardless, you ignored my proposed mitigation of that of subsidising output of farms in other ways.
I haven’t ignored it, I even mentioned that it was part of it in a previous reply.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Surely if we want to incentivise food production there are better ways than a tax break that was clearly being abused by some very wealthy people to avoid paying inheritance tax.
As I mentioned in a separate reply, there are of course other aspects that incentivise it. However, this will be a pretty big disincentive for some!
The tax avoidance could have been cracked down on with a targeted policy, not something that affects farmers who legitimately work their land.
Those farmers who legitimately work their land are still millionaires if they are affected by this policy! They might feel like they have a right to give their land to their children (as many people do) but at the end of the day that’s an argument as to the morals of inheritance tax generally. A farmer is not more deserving to hand over assets to their children tax-free than a police officer or a nurse or a factory worker.
Colombia has accepted hundreds of deportation flights in the past years. It rejected two flights using military planes, but agreed to continue taking flights using normal ICE planes.
He picks one of the crowd. He punches them, make them beg. Then the rest know they can't beat him. Because they watched and did nothing. And it'll happen again.
Colombia has accepted hundreds of deportation flights in the past years. It rejected two flights using military planes, but agreed to continue taking flights using normal ICE planes.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Surely if we want to incentivise food production there are better ways than a tax break that was clearly being abused by some very wealthy people to avoid paying inheritance tax.
As I mentioned in a separate reply, there are of course other aspects that incentivise it. However, this will be a pretty big disincentive for some!
The tax avoidance could have been cracked down on with a targeted policy, not something that affects farmers who legitimately work their land.
Those farmers who legitimately work their land are still millionaires if they are affected by this policy! They might feel like they have a right to give their land to their children (as many people do) but at the end of the day that’s an argument as to the morals of inheritance tax generally. A farmer is not more deserving to hand over assets to their children tax-free than a police officer or a nurse or a factory worker.
They are as they are the assets of the family farm their sons need to continue to work the family farm. Police officers or nurses even factory workers assets passed on are houses, savings etc they own their children don't need to do their jobs
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Then subsidise the output of farms not the act of owning farmland. Then tenant farmers benefit too.
Yes, that is part of it, too. However, if you introduce taxes that mean continued ownership of the land becomes more expensive, even over the long term, you will end up concentrating the ownership of land in an even smaller group of people.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Then subsidise the output of farms not the act of owning farmland. Then tenant farmers benefit too.
Yes, that is part of it, too. However, if you introduce taxes that mean continued ownership of the land becomes more expensive, even over the long term, you will end up concentrating the ownership of land in an even smaller group of people.
Not if it’s offset by increased operating profits through other subsidies or tax policies, it does not. Contrary to popular belief I am a big supporter of British agriculture, in my own small way. I go out of my way to buy British grown or reared food, at a price premium usually. I just fundamentally don’t agree with policies that reward (by way of a tax exemption) asset rich people for simply being asset rich in the first place.
The end result will be a concentration of wealth in an even smaller group of people whose descendants can afford the regular inheritance tax bills.
I mean, that’s just capitalism. But regardless, you ignored my proposed mitigation of that of subsidising output of farms in other ways.
No it isn't, pure capitalism would have no inheritance tax and no income tax at all as there would be no NHS or state education or welfare state etc needing to be funded from tax at all
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Surely if we want to incentivise food production there are better ways than a tax break that was clearly being abused by some very wealthy people to avoid paying inheritance tax.
As I mentioned in a separate reply, there are of course other aspects that incentivise it. However, this will be a pretty big disincentive for some!
The tax avoidance could have been cracked down on with a targeted policy, not something that affects farmers who legitimately work their land.
Those farmers who legitimately work their land are still millionaires if they are affected by this policy! They might feel like they have a right to give their land to their children (as many people do) but at the end of the day that’s an argument as to the morals of inheritance tax generally. A farmer is not more deserving to hand over assets to their children tax-free than a police officer or a nurse or a factory worker.
They are as they are the assets of the family farm their sons need to continue to work the family farm. Police officers or nurses even factory workers assets passed on are houses, savings etc they own their children don't need to do their jobs
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Then subsidise the output of farms not the act of owning farmland. Then tenant farmers benefit too.
Yes, that is part of it, too. However, if you introduce taxes that mean continued ownership of the land becomes more expensive, even over the long term, you will end up concentrating the ownership of land in an even smaller group of people.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Then subsidise the output of farms not the act of owning farmland. Then tenant farmers benefit too.
Yes, that is part of it, too. However, if you introduce taxes that mean continued ownership of the land becomes more expensive, even over the long term, you will end up concentrating the ownership of land in an even smaller group of people.
Not if it’s offset by increased operating profits through other subsidies or tax policies, it does not. Contrary to popular belief I am a big supporter of British agriculture, in my own small way. I go out of my way to buy British grown or reared food, at a price premium usually. I just fundamentally don’t agree with policies that reward (by way of a tax exemption) asset rich people for simply being asset rich in the first place.
The end result will be a concentration of wealth in an even smaller group of people whose descendants can afford the regular inheritance tax bills.
I mean, that’s just capitalism. But regardless, you ignored my proposed mitigation of that of subsidising output of farms in other ways.
No it isn't, pure capitalism would have no inheritance tax and no income tax at all as there would be no NHS or state education or welfare state etc needing to be funded from tax at all
Exactly. Wealth accumulates under pure capitalism, hence one argument for the need for IHT. Have you never played monopoly?
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Surely if we want to incentivise food production there are better ways than a tax break that was clearly being abused by some very wealthy people to avoid paying inheritance tax.
As I mentioned in a separate reply, there are of course other aspects that incentivise it. However, this will be a pretty big disincentive for some!
The tax avoidance could have been cracked down on with a targeted policy, not something that affects farmers who legitimately work their land.
I'm open to the argument it could be better designed, but as a counter, aren't there ways of ensuring it doesn't kick in until £3 million for couples (acc. to Gov.uk), and if you are keeping in a break or loophoole and adding a layer of complexity then chances are those who are abusing it will find ways of doing so?
The basic principle is that if we want to subsidise food production, is exempting a specific class of asset related to that from tax the rest of us may have to pay if are lucky enough to own assets of that value the best way of doing it? Especially when that tax break is used by some extremely wealthy people who really don't need it. Or do we want some more direct subsidies that make farming more economic to start with?
You'll note few politicians and media commentators screaming blue murder over this policy have done so about Brexit, when that has badly hit many UK farmers and disincentivised food production because that's a policy that in many cases they supported and advocated enthusiastically despite its negative impact on farmers.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Surely if we want to incentivise food production there are better ways than a tax break that was clearly being abused by some very wealthy people to avoid paying inheritance tax.
As I mentioned in a separate reply, there are of course other aspects that incentivise it. However, this will be a pretty big disincentive for some!
The tax avoidance could have been cracked down on with a targeted policy, not something that affects farmers who legitimately work their land.
I'm open to the argument it could be better designed, but as a counter, aren't there ways of ensuring it doesn't kick in until £3 million for couples (acc. to Gov.uk), and if you are keeping in a break or loophoole and adding a layer of complexity then chances are those who are abusing it will find ways of doing so?
The basic principle is that if we want to subsidise food production, is exempting a specific class of asset related to that from tax the rest of us may have to pay if are lucky enough to own assets of that value the best way of doing it? Especially when that tax break is used by some extremely wealthy people who really don't need it. Or do we want some more direct subsidies that make farming more economic to start with?
You'll note few politicians and media commentators screaming blue murder over this policy have done so about Brexit, when that has badly hit many UK farmers and disincentivised food production because that's a policy that in many cases they supported and advocated enthusiastically despite its negative impact on farmers.
Subsidising the output also better encourages new people to get into farming, perhaps farming which is less land intensive and therefore more efficient. Subsidising the inheritance of the land just acts as a gatekeeper for existing farmers. Preserving wealth and assets, not growing them.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Surely if we want to incentivise food production there are better ways than a tax break that was clearly being abused by some very wealthy people to avoid paying inheritance tax.
As I mentioned in a separate reply, there are of course other aspects that incentivise it. However, this will be a pretty big disincentive for some!
The tax avoidance could have been cracked down on with a targeted policy, not something that affects farmers who legitimately work their land.
Those farmers who legitimately work their land are still millionaires if they are affected by this policy! They might feel like they have a right to give their land to their children (as many people do) but at the end of the day that’s an argument as to the morals of inheritance tax generally. A farmer is not more deserving to hand over assets to their children tax-free than a police officer or a nurse or a factory worker.
They are as they are the assets of the family farm their sons need to continue to work the family farm. Police officers or nurses even factory workers assets passed on are houses, savings etc they own their children don't need to do their jobs
Should we then exempt all family owned businesses from IHT? Because the same principle would apply.
The State Department will continue to enforce and prioritize an America First agenda. Following President Petro’s refusal to accept two repatriation flights he previously authorized, @SecRubio immediately ordered a suspension of visa issuance at the U.S. Embassy Bogota consular section. @SecRubio is now authorizing travel sanctions on individuals and their families, who were responsible for the interference of U.S. repatriation flight operations. Measures will continue until Colombia meets its obligations to accept the return of its own citizens. America will not back down when it comes to defending its national security interests.
The State Department will continue to enforce and prioritize an America First agenda. Following President Petro’s refusal to accept two repatriation flights he previously authorized, @SecRubio immediately ordered a suspension of visa issuance at the U.S. Embassy Bogota consular section. @SecRubio is now authorizing travel sanctions on individuals and their families, who were responsible for the interference of U.S. repatriation flight operations. Measures will continue until Colombia meets its obligations to accept the return of its own citizens. America will not back down when it comes to defending its national security interests.
Some interesting and quite funny background on how this Colombia thing all kicked off.
"Let's recap the timeline for those of you who haven't been following.
Friday: a deportation flight containing 88 Brazilians takes off from American soil. The deportees are handcuffed and bound in leg irons, as is standard practice on such flights. The Americans are flying into a trap.
I swear to God, Lula and Lewandowski have got to be laughing their asses off at the Plantalto that the result of their stunt is a Trump temper tantrum against Colombia.
Interior Minister Ricardo Lewandowski has ordered Federal police to board the plane when it stops to refuel in Manaus. Lula has made sure television cameras are on hand. The police pretend to be shocked to find the deportees restrained, and order them released on the spot.
Scenes of crying deportees fill the evening news. The grateful Brazilians are given showers and beds in the airport. Lula denounces the conditions, comparing them to SLAVE SHIPS, and says Brazil will accept no more flights until they're improved.
Saturday: a Brazilian air force aircraft arrives in Manaus to bring the Brazilians home. (a few stay, wanting to go to nearby locations) Powerful scenes fill the evening news as the grateful Brazilians sing the national anthem in unison as the plane takes off.
Sunday: these photos and videos have made the rounds in Latin America, and Colombia's president Petro is feeling political heat over flights scheduled to arrive today. He orders them stopped likewise until conditions are improved.
Donald Trump loses his shit. He is being played like a fiddle, but doesn't know it. He orders retaliation, and punitive sanctions and tariffs are impsed on Colombia.
Trump has just put sanctions on our largest supplier of cut flowers and coffee days before Valentine's day."
The State Department will continue to enforce and prioritize an America First agenda. Following President Petro’s refusal to accept two repatriation flights he previously authorized, @SecRubio immediately ordered a suspension of visa issuance at the U.S. Embassy Bogota consular section. @SecRubio is now authorizing travel sanctions on individuals and their families, who were responsible for the interference of U.S. repatriation flight operations. Measures will continue until Colombia meets its obligations to accept the return of its own citizens. America will not back down when it comes to defending its national security interests.
Some interesting and quite funny background on how this Colombia thing all kicked off.
"Let's recap the timeline for those of you who haven't been following.
Friday: a deportation flight containing 88 Brazilians takes off from American soil. The deportees are handcuffed and bound in leg irons, as is standard practice on such flights. The Americans are flying into a trap.
I swear to God, Lula and Lewandowski have got to be laughing their asses off at the Plantalto that the result of their stunt is a Trump temper tantrum against Colombia.
Interior Minister Ricardo Lewandowski has ordered Federal police to board the plane when it stops to refuel in Manaus. Lula has made sure television cameras are on hand. The police pretend to be shocked to find the deportees restrained, and order them released on the spot.
Scenes of crying deportees fill the evening news. The grateful Brazilians are given showers and beds in the airport. Lula denounces the conditions, comparing them to SLAVE SHIPS, and says Brazil will accept no more flights until they're improved.
Saturday: a Brazilian air force aircraft arrives in Manaus to bring the Brazilians home. (a few stay, wanting to go to nearby locations) Powerful scenes fill the evening news as the grateful Brazilians sing the national anthem in unison as the plane takes off.
Sunday: these photos and videos have made the rounds in Latin America, and Colombia's president Petro is feeling political heat over flights scheduled to arrive today. He orders them stopped likewise until conditions are improved.
Donald Trump loses his shit. He is being played like a fiddle, but doesn't know it. He orders retaliation, and punitive sanctions and tariffs are impsed on Colombia.
Trump has just put sanctions on our largest supplier of cut flowers and coffee days before Valentine's day."
That post is marked "sign-in only" for me. Has bluesky gone the way of Twitter?
"Gen Z doubts about democracy laid bare in ‘worrying’ survey More than half believe the UK should be a dictatorship and there’s a stark gender divide over equality, research for Channel 4 shows" (£)
"Most young people are in favour of turning the UK into a dictatorship, according to a “deeply worrying” study, which has revealed an acceptance of authoritarianism and radicalism among Generation Z. Fifty-two per cent of Gen Z — people aged between 13 and 27 — said they thought “the UK would be a better place if a strong leader was in charge who does not have to bother with parliament and elections”. Thirty-three per cent suggested the UK would be better off “if the army was in charge”. Forty-seven per cent agreed that “the entire way our society is organised must be radically changed through revolution” — compared with 33 per cent of 45 to 65-year-olds."
On the issue of the “clearing out” or “ethnic cleansing” of Gaza, you’re looking to move about two million people - feasible, perhaps, assuming enough force was used.
Perhaps the USA could volunteer to take them - plenty of room and I suspect most Gazans simply want a better life for themselves and their families and isn’t that the definition of the American Dream?
Goma has apparently fallen to M23 fighters backed by Rwandan troops. As we all know, Goma sits at the north end of Lake Kiyu just on the Congolese side of the border.
The town on the southern end is called Bukavu so Google Maps tells me.
Donald Trump's trade war with Colombia is even more surreal than The Day Today's "WAR!!!"
Make ready with Susannah Geckeloids...
The problem with The Donald is that he wants to be seen as the strong man, and he wants others to publicly bend to him.
In other words, it's about denying agency. Which means he's going to get a lot of pushback.
And now The Donald is in a position where *he* doesn't want to lose face.
Perhaps I'm being unduly negative, but this seems to be pretty shitty for the whole world - a constant series of escalations and trade barriers that make everyone poorer.
Donald Trump's trade war with Colombia is even more surreal than The Day Today's "WAR!!!"
Make ready with Susannah Geckeloids...
The problem with The Donald is that he wants to be seen as the strong man, and he wants others to publicly bend to him.
In other words, it's about denying agency. Which means he's going to get a lot of pushback.
And now The Donald is in a position where *he* doesn't want to lose face.
Perhaps I'm being unduly negative, but this seems to be pretty shitty for the whole world - a constant series of escalations and trade barriers that make everyone poorer.
The other problem is that Trump is the antithesis of Starmer. For Starmer, the law is all; everything must be done by the rules, and anything done by the rules is ipso facto correct, like taking freebie frocks. For Trump, the law is at best to be ignored and if not, broken. Hence Colombia; hence Panama and Greenland; hence springing all the 6/1 rioters, including the violent ones.
House price to income trends over the last 20 years:
I suspect this is rather dependent upon starting point - UK prices, for example, were already high in 2005. But you can see why Canadians are not amused. And that there has been a huge housing crash in Finland:
"Gen Z doubts about democracy laid bare in ‘worrying’ survey More than half believe the UK should be a dictatorship and there’s a stark gender divide over equality, research for Channel 4 shows" (£)
"Most young people are in favour of turning the UK into a dictatorship, according to a “deeply worrying” study, which has revealed an acceptance of authoritarianism and radicalism among Generation Z. Fifty-two per cent of Gen Z — people aged between 13 and 27 — said they thought “the UK would be a better place if a strong leader was in charge who does not have to bother with parliament and elections”. Thirty-three per cent suggested the UK would be better off “if the army was in charge”. Forty-seven per cent agreed that “the entire way our society is organised must be radically changed through revolution” — compared with 33 per cent of 45 to 65-year-olds."
That's what happens when you teach nothing but shame about our history and institutions.
Goma has apparently fallen to M23 fighters backed by Rwandan troops. As we all know, Goma sits at the north end of Lake Kiyu just on the Congolese side of the border.
The town on the southern end is called Bukavu so Google Maps tells me.
For a second there, I wondered where in West Sussex the M23 fighters were taking their campaign for motorway expansion.
Please let me know if this is verboten here but it looks like it may be of interest. I don’t really talk about this stuff as I don’t know much bout it.
A new AI chatbot called Deepseek has landed and it seems to be causing a stir. Nvidia down by 5% so far along with other tech stocks. Apparently it is not only very good but cost pennies compared to the others to launch. It also could mean a dramatic reduction in the need for capex. So presumably if it hurts the likes of Nvidia there will be other winners.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Surely if we want to incentivise food production there are better ways than a tax break that was clearly being abused by some very wealthy people to avoid paying inheritance tax.
With respect, this just shows the ignorance of town and city dwellers who know nothing of the countryside.
I was talking to a Northern Irish colleague at work last week, whose family farm - livestock - has been in the family for over 200 years.
In a normal year, they make about 0.5% profit if things go well. Just one inheritance tax charge on their farmland means the farm is gone from their family for good.
That's an enormous amount of usable nuclear fuel. And nuclear experts who can say whether or not it's economically more beneficial to use it in reactors ?
The UK government has announced that the country's stockpile of some 140 tonnes of civil plutonium - currently stored at the Sellafield site in Cumbria - will be immobilised and eventually disposed of in a geological disposal facility https://x.com/W_Nuclear_News/status/1882830251568599433
I agree.
Dr Emmett Brown would make excellent use of that in his converted DeLorean.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
I don’t care what they do with their assets. I just want them to pay the same tax as everyone else.
I repeat, these poor downtrodden people are literally millionaires. Will anyone think of them?
Bitterness is the defining characteristic of the left. You epitomise that.
@Gallowgate and his arguments are some of the most disgusting and reprehensible comments I've seen on here.
I've got farmer friends whose families are sick with stress. None have a penny to rub together.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
@Gallowgate and his arguments are some of the most disgusting and reprehensible comments I've seen on here.
I've got farmer friends whose families are sick with stress. None have a penny to rub together.
This is going to totally ruin their livelihood.
Moaning about having no money is the default state of all farmers regardless of their actual financial status. See Moira Dingle on Emmerdale. My mother's family were livestock and dairy farmers in the 6 and the 26 counties. None of them were ever short of a quid/punt despite many protestations to the contrary.
There is CAT to be paid when inheriting a farm in the 26 counties, I should know as I fucking paid enough of it, and yet they still seem to manage to have farms.
In short, fuck them. They probably voted for brexit anyway.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
You've exposed a hole in your argument. Why would the land be valuable if it delivers such a poor return and under such onerous regulations?
Because it can be sold for property development and, increasingly, as a way to avoid tax.
Then tax those transactions specifically, rather than having a tax that will affect family-owned farms.
Who cares if it’s family owned? What difference does that make? Family owned assets are taxed all the time. Why are farmers so special that they should be treated differently?
Food production is a national interest, and the tax system should incentivise people to continue doing it.
Surely if we want to incentivise food production there are better ways than a tax break that was clearly being abused by some very wealthy people to avoid paying inheritance tax.
With respect, this just shows the ignorance of town and city dwellers who know nothing of the countryside.
I was talking to a Northern Irish colleague at work last week, whose family farm - livestock - has been in the family for over 200 years.
In a normal year, they make about 0.5% profit if things go well. Just one inheritance tax charge on their farmland means the farm is gone from their family for good.
They can't pay.
As we saw with the Clarkson TV show, if it wasn’t for the fact that he has cameras following him around he’d be making no money at all. Many of his neighbours aren’t so lucky and are in just that situation. There’s a lot of cost in farming unless you do absolutely everything yourself, and many livestock farmers are one vet bill or disease outbreak from ruin.
Trying to think outside the box, perhaps by setting up a small shop or a restaurant, results in vocal opposition from the local townsfolk.
The end result of the tax changes are that family farms either get split up on the sale of estate, reducing economies of scale for the next generation, or they get sold out completely to private equity or large farming corporates.
Please let me know if this is verboten here but it looks like it may be of interest. I don’t really talk about this stuff as I don’t know much bout it.
A new AI chatbot called Deepseek has landed and it seems to be causing a stir. Nvidia down by 5% so far along with other tech stocks. Apparently it is not only very good but cost pennies compared to the others to launch. It also could mean a dramatic reduction in the need for capex. So presumably if it hurts the likes of Nvidia there will be other winners.
From my understanding from family: farmers vary as much as their farms; and not just into pastoral versus arable. Some years they can make a lot of money; sometimes they have a very lean year or two. They have times of the year when they have very little income and a great deal of expenses (again, this depends on the farm type...), and other times of the year where they have relatively few expenses and a lot of income.
This is very different from a regular, salaried income, and means they have a firm focus on money all year around. It's also partly a reason why so many farmers have tried diversifying where possible.
In addition, capital expenditures tend to be *very* high, sometimes for equipment that is only used for a few weeks or a month of the year.
If you were a farmer, you might have the same mindset...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Politically, they will continue to go overboard on this one (and everything else) until they have something substantive to say, some values and some policies, which is some way away I think - perhaps 2 or 3 years.
The Right Wing media have dubbed it the "family farm tax" (no idea where the phrase started from), in their search for purchase.
I'm not sure how much further Reform we have coming on things like wealth taxes, Council Tax and similar. I think (and I think most here agree) that some quite major reform is indicated, even if we all differ in specifics.
I think the Tories have a problem in that they walked away from much of their long term claimed policy platform in their attempts to save the election - housebuilding, financial probity and so on. The attempt failed comprehensively and they are trying to rebuild on a political landscape they salted.
At the moment they don't even know in which direction they want to go and seem to me to be having a faction fight - are they going Monday Club / nativist with Bobby J, or for something a little more mainstream?
At the moment they don't even know in which direction they want to go and seem to me to be having a faction fight - are they going Monday Club / nativist with Bobby J, or for something a little more mainstream?
Somebody on here, can't remember who, said that the tory offer is basically, "Reform are right about everything, but vote for us."
I don't think it's possible to state their position any more succintly or accurately than that.
The true grotesquerie of the farm tax is that it brings in about £520m MAX - if might be less
In the year 2024 the UK spent £5.4 BILLION on housing and hosting asylum seekers. A number that has quintupled in three years and will only get worse with every boat
So the tax that is destroying farming brings in less than 10% of what we are spending on unwanted foreigners going in hotels. We are destroying ourselves to feed Albanians buffet breakfasts in pleasant rooms near the M1
It is pure and absolute madness. It is hardly surprising that young people want a ruthless dictatorship
@Gallowgate and his arguments are some of the most disgusting and reprehensible comments I've seen on here.
I've got farmer friends whose families are sick with stress. None have a penny to rub together.
This is going to totally ruin their livelihood.
Moaning about having no money is the default state of all farmers regardless of their actual financial status. See Moira Dingle on Emmerdale. My mother's family were livestock and dairy farmers in the 6 and the 26 counties. None of them were ever short of a quid/punt despite many protestations to the contrary.
There is CAT to be paid when inheriting a farm in the 26 counties, I should know as I fucking paid enough of it, and yet they still seem to manage to have farms.
In short, fuck them. They probably voted for brexit anyway.
Don't say that! Casino Royale has just handed over his life savings to the Society For Distressed Farmingfolk.
It is quite lol but it is also a massive challenge to European governments
Trump is showing that you can just do this. Just load them on a plane and dump them in foreign countries. America is powerful
Europe is also powerful. All of Europe is plagued by illegal migrants and asylum seekers, the voters will soon start demanding that we do what Trump is doing. Because we can no longer afford to house the world
It is quite lol but it is also a massive challenge to European governments
Trump is showing that you can just do this. Just load them on a plane and dump them in foreign countries. America is powerful
Europe is also powerful. All of Europe is plagued by illegal migrants and asylum seekers, the voters will soon start demanding that we do what Trump is doing. Because we can no longer afford to house the world
Trump is taking a lot of the Liberal West's sacred cows on a one way trip to the abattoir. It remains to be seen how fast Europeans start to follow his lead.
It is quite lol but it is also a massive challenge to European governments
Trump is showing that you can just do this. Just load them on a plane and dump them in foreign countries. America is powerful
Europe is also powerful. All of Europe is plagued by illegal migrants and asylum seekers, the voters will soon start demanding that we do what Trump is doing. Because we can no longer afford to house the world
Trump is taking a lot of the Liberal West's sacred cows on a one way trip to the abattoir. It remains to be seen how fast Europeans start to follow his lead.
Quickly, I reckon
The contrast between a vigorous, belligerent America sorting shit out PDQ will be too painful for Europeans governed by spineless woke cowards
The true grotesquerie of the farm tax is that it brings in about £520m MAX - if might be less
In the year 2024 the UK spent £5.4 BILLION on housing and hosting asylum seekers. A number that has quintupled in three years and will only get worse with every boat
So the tax that is destroying farming brings in less than 10% of what we are spending on unwanted foreigners going in hotels. We are destroying ourselves to feed Albanians buffet breakfasts in pleasant rooms near the M1
It is pure and absolute madness. It is hardly surprising that young people want a ruthless dictatorship
The £5bn was a Tory policy to not bother processing asylum claims.
A more sensible approach would be near-immediate processing (reject and deport; accept and permit to work so they can stand on their own two feet).
Let's see if Labour successfully reduces that spend. But it's a red herring to say 'here is an example of Tory wasteful spending, therefore modest tax increases are not permitted'.
Incidentally, I think part of the problem of our politics is we consider £500m here and there to not be worth bothering about (both on tax and spend). Watch the hundreds of millions and you soon save real money...
Please let me know if this is verboten here but it looks like it may be of interest. I don’t really talk about this stuff as I don’t know much bout it.
A new AI chatbot called Deepseek has landed and it seems to be causing a stir. Nvidia down by 5% so far along with other tech stocks. Apparently it is not only very good but cost pennies compared to the others to launch. It also could mean a dramatic reduction in the need for capex. So presumably if it hurts the likes of Nvidia there will be other winners.
It's Chinese. There's a degree of controversy about what hardware it actually used., so it was probably but quite so cheap as originally thought.
But yes, it's not the greatest news for those spending many billions on the technology.
If it’s actually doing what they say it’s doing, the way they say it’s doing it, then it’s quite impressive.
But as with anything to do with AI and China, there’s a very large pinch of salt involved until we understand what exactly it is. They have every reason to fake something in order to disrupt their many Western competitors.
~ Is this simply not a false narrative aka fake news?
Trump chained them up like a 1920s chain gang, and sent them on military planes.
The Colombian President said - no, treat our people like human beings and send them on civilian flights. And Trump got hold of the wrong end of the shtick and threw a tantrum, as is his habit.
So now we have a better proposal, and this spin.
I think Trump's habit of believing his own BS, and acting on the basis as if it was true, covered by the noisy MAGA wibbling machine, is going to be one of the factors that will undermine him eventually.
Trump's effective policy of treating people as subhuman in order to generate fear in others and scare them away, is at least risky for him.
The true grotesquerie of the farm tax is that it brings in about £520m MAX - if might be less
In the year 2024 the UK spent £5.4 BILLION on housing and hosting asylum seekers. A number that has quintupled in three years and will only get worse with every boat
So the tax that is destroying farming brings in less than 10% of what we are spending on unwanted foreigners going in hotels. We are destroying ourselves to feed Albanians buffet breakfasts in pleasant rooms near the M1
It is pure and absolute madness. It is hardly surprising that young people want a ruthless dictatorship
The £5bn was a Tory policy to not bother processing asylum claims.
A more sensible approach would be near-immediate processing (reject and deport; accept and permit to work so they can stand on their own two feet).
Let's see if Labour successfully reduces that spend. But it's a red herring to say 'here is an example of Tory wasteful spending, therefore modest tax increases are not permitted'.
Incidentally, I think part of the problem of our politics is we consider £500m here and there to not be worth bothering about (both on tax and spend). Watch the hundreds of millions and you soon save real money...
But it’s actually getting WORSE under Labour. They aren’t processing any faster, the numbers are going up, evermore hotels are requisitioned and the boat people keep coming - also increasing - and Labour scrapped the only plan for deterring them
We are hurtling towards a reform government which will be modelled on Trump 2.0
@Gallowgate and his arguments are some of the most disgusting and reprehensible comments I've seen on here.
I've got farmer friends whose families are sick with stress. None have a penny to rub together.
This is going to totally ruin their livelihood.
Moaning about having no money is the default state of all farmers regardless of their actual financial status. See Moira Dingle on Emmerdale. My mother's family were livestock and dairy farmers in the 6 and the 26 counties. None of them were ever short of a quid/punt despite many protestations to the contrary.
There is CAT to be paid when inheriting a farm in the 26 counties, I should know as I fucking paid enough of it, and yet they still seem to manage to have farms.
In short, fuck them. They probably voted for brexit anyway.
A confused rant that mixes up tax policy in the Republic of Ireland and the UK and then says even if it is true you don't like farmers anyway because they winge and you don't share their politics so screw them.
Your only point of "evidence" is a fictional character from a soap opera, so I think we can treat your post accordingly.
@Gallowgate and his arguments are some of the most disgusting and reprehensible comments I've seen on here.
I've got farmer friends whose families are sick with stress. None have a penny to rub together.
This is going to totally ruin their livelihood.
Moaning about having no money is the default state of all farmers regardless of their actual financial status. See Moira Dingle on Emmerdale. My mother's family were livestock and dairy farmers in the 6 and the 26 counties. None of them were ever short of a quid/punt despite many protestations to the contrary.
There is CAT to be paid when inheriting a farm in the 26 counties, I should know as I fucking paid enough of it, and yet they still seem to manage to have farms.
In short, fuck them. They probably voted for brexit anyway.
Don't say that! Casino Royale has just handed over his life savings to the Society For Distressed Farmingfolk.
Tossers like you will be the first to complain when you have to pay more to giant agribusinesses who buy out all the small family owned farms.
Doubtless there will be Reasons why this has happened - absolutely nothing to do whatever with your support for this stupid policy.
~ Is this simply not a false narrative aka fake news?
Trump chained them up like a 1920s chain gang, and sent them on military planes.
The Colombian President said - no, treat our people like human beings and send them on civilian flights. And Trump got hold of the wrong end of the shtick and threw a tantrum, as is his habit.
So now we have a better proposal, and this spin.
I think Trump's habit of believing his own BS, and acting on the basis as if it was true, covered by the noisy MAGA wibbling machine, is going to be one of the factors that will undermine him eventually.
Trump's effective policy of treating people as subhuman in order to generate fear in others and scare them away, is at least risky for him.
How dare you bring facts into this, sir? That’s not the PB way.
More seriously, this seems to be linked to an earlier incident in Manaus where the Brazilians caught the US doing the same thing live on camera and the leftist government staged a propaganda coup* exposing it causing the Colombians to revoke flight permissions for these aircraft.
It does highlight Trump’s instability and confusion, but then that hardly needs highlighting.
*Not to be confused with an actual coup, which is the sort of thing best left to Trump.
It is quite lol but it is also a massive challenge to European governments
Trump is showing that you can just do this. Just load them on a plane and dump them in foreign countries. America is powerful
Europe is also powerful. All of Europe is plagued by illegal migrants and asylum seekers, the voters will soon start demanding that we do what Trump is doing. Because we can no longer afford to house the world
Trump is taking a lot of the Liberal West's sacred cows on a one way trip to the abattoir. It remains to be seen how fast Europeans start to follow his lead.
Well he’s certainly turned up prepared, and with plenty of people behind him to make sure that stuff actually happens, as opposed to last time around when large numbers of civil servants managed to get in the way of his agenda.
The true grotesquerie of the farm tax is that it brings in about £520m MAX - if might be less
In the year 2024 the UK spent £5.4 BILLION on housing and hosting asylum seekers. A number that has quintupled in three years and will only get worse with every boat
So the tax that is destroying farming brings in less than 10% of what we are spending on unwanted foreigners going in hotels. We are destroying ourselves to feed Albanians buffet breakfasts in pleasant rooms near the M1
It is pure and absolute madness. It is hardly surprising that young people want a ruthless dictatorship
The £5bn was a Tory policy to not bother processing asylum claims.
A more sensible approach would be near-immediate processing (reject and deport; accept and permit to work so they can stand on their own two feet).
Let's see if Labour successfully reduces that spend. But it's a red herring to say 'here is an example of Tory wasteful spending, therefore modest tax increases are not permitted'.
Incidentally, I think part of the problem of our politics is we consider £500m here and there to not be worth bothering about (both on tax and spend). Watch the hundreds of millions and you soon save real money...
But it’s actually getting WORSE under Labour. They aren’t processing any faster, the numbers are going up, evermore hotels are requisitioned and the boat people keep coming - also increasing - and Labour scrapped the only plan for deterring them
We are hurtling towards a reform government which will be modelled on Trump 2.0
They've been in power 6 months. And had an in-tray piled high with excrement.
I bet the total spend on asylum hotels will be lower in 2028 than 2024.
And the farm policy won't be reversed by whoever the next government is.
Please let me know if this is verboten here but it looks like it may be of interest. I don’t really talk about this stuff as I don’t know much bout it.
A new AI chatbot called Deepseek has landed and it seems to be causing a stir. Nvidia down by 5% so far along with other tech stocks. Apparently it is not only very good but cost pennies compared to the others to launch. It also could mean a dramatic reduction in the need for capex. So presumably if it hurts the likes of Nvidia there will be other winners.
It's Chinese. There's a degree of controversy about what hardware it actually used., so it was probably but quite so cheap as originally thought.
But yes, it's not the greatest news for those spending many billions on the technology.
If it’s actually doing what they say it’s doing, the way they say it’s doing it, then it’s quite impressive.
But as with anything to do with AI and China, there’s a very large pinch of salt involved until we understand what exactly it is. They have every reason to fake something in order to disrupt their many Western competitors.
Deepseek is insane.
I'm running it LOCALLY ON MY PHONE. I turned off all internet access to be 100% sure, and yes, it works, and it's reasoning capability is excellent. AND IT'S ON MY PHONE.
It's a 1.5bn parameter model that matches OpenAI's 4o in many benchmarks and it runs at acceptable speed on my phone. People have tested it on Raspberry Pi's and gotten 200+ tokens per second.
Here's the thing: that Google memo "there's no moat" is turning out to be spot on.
The true grotesquerie of the farm tax is that it brings in about £520m MAX - if might be less
In the year 2024 the UK spent £5.4 BILLION on housing and hosting asylum seekers. A number that has quintupled in three years and will only get worse with every boat
So the tax that is destroying farming brings in less than 10% of what we are spending on unwanted foreigners going in hotels. We are destroying ourselves to feed Albanians buffet breakfasts in pleasant rooms near the M1
It is pure and absolute madness. It is hardly surprising that young people want a ruthless dictatorship
The £5bn was a Tory policy to not bother processing asylum claims.
A more sensible approach would be near-immediate processing (reject and deport; accept and permit to work so they can stand on their own two feet).
Let's see if Labour successfully reduces that spend. But it's a red herring to say 'here is an example of Tory wasteful spending, therefore modest tax increases are not permitted'.
Incidentally, I think part of the problem of our politics is we consider £500m here and there to not be worth bothering about (both on tax and spend). Watch the hundreds of millions and you soon save real money...
Immediate processing would be good but that doesn't get round the problem that under current rules almost everyone qualifies.
The public will give little credit to a Government where 30-50k come across the Channel illegally each year but 85%+ are quickly granted asylum whilst the rest are booted out; the only benefit would be reduced hotel bills.
It is quite lol but it is also a massive challenge to European governments
Trump is showing that you can just do this. Just load them on a plane and dump them in foreign countries. America is powerful
Europe is also powerful. All of Europe is plagued by illegal migrants and asylum seekers, the voters will soon start demanding that we do what Trump is doing. Because we can no longer afford to house the world
Trump is taking a lot of the Liberal West's sacred cows on a one way trip to the abattoir. It remains to be seen how fast Europeans start to follow his lead.
Well he’s certainly turned up prepared, and with plenty of people behind him to make sure that stuff actually happens, as opposed to last time around when large numbers of civil servants managed to get in the way of his agenda.
Trump is better prepared this time. He has hit the ground running and has overloaded the media with initiatives that they they havent got the time to freak out. Too many outrage buses departing at once. It will of course slack off but by then he'll have his feet under the table and will be off annoying foreign governments.
Anyway I'm off to Hamburg to sell a comapny, have a good day.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
He's a disgrace.
Oh get a grip. Lots of people are anxious about money but you’re going into bat for people who have literally millions of pounds worth of assets but a low yield occasionally. Talk about a lack of perspective.
~ Is this simply not a false narrative aka fake news?
Trump chained them up like a 1920s chain gang, and sent them on military planes.
The Colombian President said - no, treat our people like human beings and send them on civilian flights. And Trump got hold of the wrong end of the shtick and threw a tantrum, as is his habit.
So now we have a better proposal, and this spin.
I think Trump's habit of believing his own BS, and acting on the basis as if it was true, covered by the noisy MAGA wibbling machine, is going to be one of the factors that will undermine him eventually.
Trump's effective policy of treating people as subhuman in order to generate fear in others and scare them away, is at least risky for him.
Wasn’t that standard protocol for these deportations anyway. I cannot imagine for one minutes you’d want them able to roam around the plane.
Perhaps they’ve seen Con Air, someone had to watch it.
It is quite lol but it is also a massive challenge to European governments
Trump is showing that you can just do this. Just load them on a plane and dump them in foreign countries. America is powerful
Europe is also powerful. All of Europe is plagued by illegal migrants and asylum seekers, the voters will soon start demanding that we do what Trump is doing. Because we can no longer afford to house the world
Trump is taking a lot of the Liberal West's sacred cows on a one way trip to the abattoir. It remains to be seen how fast Europeans start to follow his lead.
Well he’s certainly turned up prepared, and with plenty of people behind him to make sure that stuff actually happens, as opposed to last time around when large numbers of civil servants managed to get in the way of his agenda.
Trump is better prepared this time. He has hit the ground running and has overloaded the media with initiatives that they they havent got the time to freak out. Too many outrage buses departing at once. It will of course slack off but by then he'll have his feet under the table and will be off annoying foreign governments.
Anyway I'm off to Hamburg to sell a comapny, have a good day.
Trump does seem far better prepared and is getting shit done. People may or may not support him but he is doing what he said he would.
Have a good journey. Looks like being a shit day for travelling.
"When you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow." (LBJ)
What was their legal position to refuse entry of Columbian citizens to Columbia?
An interesting question. Have a look at this back and forth of a Belarussian citizen and the decision by our Supreme Court. 'Lefty lawyers' or a nation built on laws.
Please let me know if this is verboten here but it looks like it may be of interest. I don’t really talk about this stuff as I don’t know much bout it.
A new AI chatbot called Deepseek has landed and it seems to be causing a stir. Nvidia down by 5% so far along with other tech stocks. Apparently it is not only very good but cost pennies compared to the others to launch. It also could mean a dramatic reduction in the need for capex. So presumably if it hurts the likes of Nvidia there will be other winners.
It's Chinese. There's a degree of controversy about what hardware it actually used., so it was probably but quite so cheap as originally thought.
But yes, it's not the greatest news for those spending many billions on the technology.
If it’s actually doing what they say it’s doing, the way they say it’s doing it, then it’s quite impressive.
But as with anything to do with AI and China, there’s a very large pinch of salt involved until we understand what exactly it is. They have every reason to fake something in order to disrupt their many Western competitors.
Deepseek is insane.
I'm running it LOCALLY ON MY PHONE. I turned off all internet access to be 100% sure, and yes, it works, and it's reasoning capability is excellent. AND IT'S ON MY PHONE.
It's a 1.5bn parameter model that matches OpenAI's 4o in many benchmarks and it runs at acceptable speed on my phone. People have tested it on Raspberry Pi's and gotten 200+ tokens per second.
Here's the thing: that Google memo "there's no moat" is turning out to be spot on.
Please let me know if this is verboten here but it looks like it may be of interest. I don’t really talk about this stuff as I don’t know much bout it.
A new AI chatbot called Deepseek has landed and it seems to be causing a stir. Nvidia down by 5% so far along with other tech stocks. Apparently it is not only very good but cost pennies compared to the others to launch. It also could mean a dramatic reduction in the need for capex. So presumably if it hurts the likes of Nvidia there will be other winners.
It's Chinese. There's a degree of controversy about what hardware it actually used., so it was probably but quite so cheap as originally thought.
But yes, it's not the greatest news for those spending many billions on the technology.
If it’s actually doing what they say it’s doing, the way they say it’s doing it, then it’s quite impressive.
But as with anything to do with AI and China, there’s a very large pinch of salt involved until we understand what exactly it is. They have every reason to fake something in order to disrupt their many Western competitors.
Deepseek is insane.
I'm running it LOCALLY ON MY PHONE. I turned off all internet access to be 100% sure, and yes, it works, and it's reasoning capability is excellent. AND IT'S ON MY PHONE.
It's a 1.5bn parameter model that matches OpenAI's 4o in many benchmarks and it runs at acceptable speed on my phone. People have tested it on Raspberry Pi's and gotten 200+ tokens per second.
Here's the thing: that Google memo "there's no moat" is turning out to be spot on.
I’ve heard this. You can run it on your own phone. Also because it’s all open source you can tweak it how you like and get it to do wild things…
I love its real life chain of thought processes. It feels very very very very much like AGI
Please let me know if this is verboten here but it looks like it may be of interest. I don’t really talk about this stuff as I don’t know much bout it.
A new AI chatbot called Deepseek has landed and it seems to be causing a stir. Nvidia down by 5% so far along with other tech stocks. Apparently it is not only very good but cost pennies compared to the others to launch. It also could mean a dramatic reduction in the need for capex. So presumably if it hurts the likes of Nvidia there will be other winners.
It's Chinese. There's a degree of controversy about what hardware it actually used., so it was probably but quite so cheap as originally thought.
But yes, it's not the greatest news for those spending many billions on the technology.
If it’s actually doing what they say it’s doing, the way they say it’s doing it, then it’s quite impressive.
But as with anything to do with AI and China, there’s a very large pinch of salt involved until we understand what exactly it is. They have every reason to fake something in order to disrupt their many Western competitors.
Deepseek is insane.
I'm running it LOCALLY ON MY PHONE. I turned off all internet access to be 100% sure, and yes, it works, and it's reasoning capability is excellent. AND IT'S ON MY PHONE.
It's a 1.5bn parameter model that matches OpenAI's 4o in many benchmarks and it runs at acceptable speed on my phone. People have tested it on Raspberry Pi's and gotten 200+ tokens per second.
Here's the thing: that Google memo "there's no moat" is turning out to be spot on.
Please let me know if this is verboten here but it looks like it may be of interest. I don’t really talk about this stuff as I don’t know much bout it.
A new AI chatbot called Deepseek has landed and it seems to be causing a stir. Nvidia down by 5% so far along with other tech stocks. Apparently it is not only very good but cost pennies compared to the others to launch. It also could mean a dramatic reduction in the need for capex. So presumably if it hurts the likes of Nvidia there will be other winners.
It's Chinese. There's a degree of controversy about what hardware it actually used., so it was probably but quite so cheap as originally thought.
But yes, it's not the greatest news for those spending many billions on the technology.
If it’s actually doing what they say it’s doing, the way they say it’s doing it, then it’s quite impressive.
But as with anything to do with AI and China, there’s a very large pinch of salt involved until we understand what exactly it is. They have every reason to fake something in order to disrupt their many Western competitors.
Deepseek is insane.
I'm running it LOCALLY ON MY PHONE. I turned off all internet access to be 100% sure, and yes, it works, and it's reasoning capability is excellent. AND IT'S ON MY PHONE.
It's a 1.5bn parameter model that matches OpenAI's 4o in many benchmarks and it runs at acceptable speed on my phone. People have tested it on Raspberry Pi's and gotten 200+ tokens per second.
Here's the thing: that Google memo "there's no moat" is turning out to be spot on.
I’ve heard this. You can run it on your own phone. Also because it’s all open source you can tweak it how you like and get it to do wild things…
I love its real life chain of thought processes. It feels very very very very much like AGI
I asked it to propose a 5 part spy drama on the BBC made in the eighties with cast.
Sad, I know, but it is the sort of thing this technology was developed for !!!
It did but the cast was contemporary. I told it that so it recast perfectly.
It also came up with a 5 story Dr Who season based on the early seventies. It was good.
I also asked it for a recipe for apple wine. I then queried the process and got a very coherent answer. Quite impressed. I used mainly Claude and Perplexity. ChatGPT is shit. But this looks good
"When you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow." (LBJ)
What was their legal position to refuse entry of Columbian citizens to Columbia?
So far as I understand it, they weren't refusing Columbian deportees.
They are perfectly correct to refuse deportees from other countries, and to refuse military transports with unknown passengers.
Colombia have had loads of civilian flights with deportees in recent years received without complaint.
They folded
“Colombia Agrees to Accept Deportation Flights After Trump Threatens Tariffs The country’s leader, Gustavo Petro, backed down after a clash with President Trump, which started when Mr. Petro turned back U.S. military planes carrying deportees.”
The true grotesquerie of the farm tax is that it brings in about £520m MAX - if might be less
In the year 2024 the UK spent £5.4 BILLION on housing and hosting asylum seekers. A number that has quintupled in three years and will only get worse with every boat
So the tax that is destroying farming brings in less than 10% of what we are spending on unwanted foreigners going in hotels. We are destroying ourselves to feed Albanians buffet breakfasts in pleasant rooms near the M1
It is pure and absolute madness. It is hardly surprising that young people want a ruthless dictatorship
The £5bn was a Tory policy to not bother processing asylum claims.
A more sensible approach would be near-immediate processing (reject and deport; accept and permit to work so they can stand on their own two feet).
Let's see if Labour successfully reduces that spend. But it's a red herring to say 'here is an example of Tory wasteful spending, therefore modest tax increases are not permitted'.
Incidentally, I think part of the problem of our politics is we consider £500m here and there to not be worth bothering about (both on tax and spend). Watch the hundreds of millions and you soon save real money...
Immediate processing would be good but that doesn't get round the problem that under current rules almost everyone qualifies.
The public will give little credit to a Government where 30-50k come across the Channel illegally each year but 85%+ are quickly granted asylum whilst the rest are booted out; the only benefit would be reduced hotel bills.
Personally I'd much rather have a larger number approved and becoming functioning members of society than wasting billions storing them in hotels and disrupting a part of the relevant local communities.
I also think it'd be politically more popular than asylum hotels if combined with reduced migration elsewhere. 35-50k is peanuts in that context.
But if you disagree, a more coherent approach than Rwanda etc would be to tighten the eligibility criteria for asylum. Combined with quicker processing.
Please let me know if this is verboten here but it looks like it may be of interest. I don’t really talk about this stuff as I don’t know much bout it.
A new AI chatbot called Deepseek has landed and it seems to be causing a stir. Nvidia down by 5% so far along with other tech stocks. Apparently it is not only very good but cost pennies compared to the others to launch. It also could mean a dramatic reduction in the need for capex. So presumably if it hurts the likes of Nvidia there will be other winners.
It's Chinese. There's a degree of controversy about what hardware it actually used., so it was probably but quite so cheap as originally thought.
But yes, it's not the greatest news for those spending many billions on the technology.
If it’s actually doing what they say it’s doing, the way they say it’s doing it, then it’s quite impressive.
But as with anything to do with AI and China, there’s a very large pinch of salt involved until we understand what exactly it is. They have every reason to fake something in order to disrupt their many Western competitors.
Deepseek is insane.
I'm running it LOCALLY ON MY PHONE. I turned off all internet access to be 100% sure, and yes, it works, and it's reasoning capability is excellent. AND IT'S ON MY PHONE.
It's a 1.5bn parameter model that matches OpenAI's 4o in many benchmarks and it runs at acceptable speed on my phone. People have tested it on Raspberry Pi's and gotten 200+ tokens per second.
Here's the thing: that Google memo "there's no moat" is turning out to be spot on.
As a layman, whose main interest is in how this affects the S&P500, is this good ?
Please let me know if this is verboten here but it looks like it may be of interest. I don’t really talk about this stuff as I don’t know much bout it.
A new AI chatbot called Deepseek has landed and it seems to be causing a stir. Nvidia down by 5% so far along with other tech stocks. Apparently it is not only very good but cost pennies compared to the others to launch. It also could mean a dramatic reduction in the need for capex. So presumably if it hurts the likes of Nvidia there will be other winners.
It's Chinese. There's a degree of controversy about what hardware it actually used., so it was probably but quite so cheap as originally thought.
But yes, it's not the greatest news for those spending many billions on the technology.
If it’s actually doing what they say it’s doing, the way they say it’s doing it, then it’s quite impressive.
But as with anything to do with AI and China, there’s a very large pinch of salt involved until we understand what exactly it is. They have every reason to fake something in order to disrupt their many Western competitors.
Deepseek is insane.
I'm running it LOCALLY ON MY PHONE. I turned off all internet access to be 100% sure, and yes, it works, and it's reasoning capability is excellent. AND IT'S ON MY PHONE.
It's a 1.5bn parameter model that matches OpenAI's 4o in many benchmarks and it runs at acceptable speed on my phone. People have tested it on Raspberry Pi's and gotten 200+ tokens per second.
Here's the thing: that Google memo "there's no moat" is turning out to be spot on.
As a layman, whose main interest is in how this affects the S&P500, is this good ?
"When you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow." (LBJ)
What was their legal position to refuse entry of Columbian citizens to Columbia?
So far as I understand it, they weren't refusing Columbian deportees.
They are perfectly correct to refuse deportees from other countries, and to refuse military transports with unknown passengers.
Colombia have had loads of civilian flights with deportees in recent years received without complaint.
They folded
“Colombia Agrees to Accept Deportation Flights After Trump Threatens Tariffs The country’s leader, Gustavo Petro, backed down after a clash with President Trump, which started when Mr. Petro turned back U.S. military planes carrying deportees.”
NYT
I suspect people will see what they want to see with this depending on their view of Trump. Those opposed to him will try to minimise it.
"When you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow." (LBJ)
What was their legal position to refuse entry of Columbian citizens to Columbia?
Probably none, but Colombia can certainly refuse permission to enter their airspace or to land to any aircraft they like.
Yeah, no, they’re not gonna say no to a determined America under Trump. And indeed they haven’t. They’ve folded
They did say no. Yesterday 2 x C-17 took off from MCAS Miramar and turned back over the Gulf of Mexico when Colombia withdrew landing permission for Bogota. Thoughts and prayers for the crew who thought they were heading for a BIG night out in Ciudad del Pecado.
"When you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow." (LBJ)
What was their legal position to refuse entry of Columbian citizens to Columbia?
Probably none, but Colombia can certainly refuse permission to enter their airspace or to land to any aircraft they like.
Yeah, no, they’re not gonna say no to a determined America under Trump. And indeed they haven’t. They’ve folded
They did say no. Yesterday 2 x C-17 took off from MCAS Miramar and turned back over the Gulf of Mexico when Colombia withdrew landing permission for Bogota. Thoughts and prayers for the crew who thought they were heading for a BIG night out in Ciudad del Pecado.
Please let me know if this is verboten here but it looks like it may be of interest. I don’t really talk about this stuff as I don’t know much bout it.
A new AI chatbot called Deepseek has landed and it seems to be causing a stir. Nvidia down by 5% so far along with other tech stocks. Apparently it is not only very good but cost pennies compared to the others to launch. It also could mean a dramatic reduction in the need for capex. So presumably if it hurts the likes of Nvidia there will be other winners.
It's Chinese. There's a degree of controversy about what hardware it actually used., so it was probably but quite so cheap as originally thought.
But yes, it's not the greatest news for those spending many billions on the technology.
If it’s actually doing what they say it’s doing, the way they say it’s doing it, then it’s quite impressive.
But as with anything to do with AI and China, there’s a very large pinch of salt involved until we understand what exactly it is. They have every reason to fake something in order to disrupt their many Western competitors.
Deepseek is insane.
I'm running it LOCALLY ON MY PHONE. I turned off all internet access to be 100% sure, and yes, it works, and it's reasoning capability is excellent. AND IT'S ON MY PHONE.
It's a 1.5bn parameter model that matches OpenAI's 4o in many benchmarks and it runs at acceptable speed on my phone. People have tested it on Raspberry Pi's and gotten 200+ tokens per second.
Here's the thing: that Google memo "there's no moat" is turning out to be spot on.
As a layman, whose main interest is in how this affects the S&P500, is this good ?
Almost certainly not
You're well up on this stuff. Do you rate it ?
I am impressed that it seems to learn from you but then so do others. I have tried Gemini, Chat GPT, CoPilot, Claude an Perplexity and I Think the last two are pretty good. the rest Meh
GMB news talking piece on Southport. In spite of the massive failures of our institutions on Rudakabana apparently it is all the fault of a video on twitter.
Time our institutions accepted their failings and stopped looking to deflect.
Please let me know if this is verboten here but it looks like it may be of interest. I don’t really talk about this stuff as I don’t know much bout it.
A new AI chatbot called Deepseek has landed and it seems to be causing a stir. Nvidia down by 5% so far along with other tech stocks. Apparently it is not only very good but cost pennies compared to the others to launch. It also could mean a dramatic reduction in the need for capex. So presumably if it hurts the likes of Nvidia there will be other winners.
It's Chinese. There's a degree of controversy about what hardware it actually used., so it was probably but quite so cheap as originally thought.
But yes, it's not the greatest news for those spending many billions on the technology.
If it’s actually doing what they say it’s doing, the way they say it’s doing it, then it’s quite impressive.
But as with anything to do with AI and China, there’s a very large pinch of salt involved until we understand what exactly it is. They have every reason to fake something in order to disrupt their many Western competitors.
Deepseek is insane.
I'm running it LOCALLY ON MY PHONE. I turned off all internet access to be 100% sure, and yes, it works, and it's reasoning capability is excellent. AND IT'S ON MY PHONE.
It's a 1.5bn parameter model that matches OpenAI's 4o in many benchmarks and it runs at acceptable speed on my phone. People have tested it on Raspberry Pi's and gotten 200+ tokens per second.
Here's the thing: that Google memo "there's no moat" is turning out to be spot on.
As a layman, whose main interest is in how this affects the S&P500, is this good ?
Almost certainly not
You're well up on this stuff. Do you rate it ?
I am impressed that it seems to learn from you but then so do others. I have tried Gemini, Chat GPT, CoPilot, Claude an Perplexity and I Think the last two are pretty good. the rest Meh
"When you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow." (LBJ)
What was their legal position to refuse entry of Columbian citizens to Columbia?
Probably none, but Colombia can certainly refuse permission to enter their airspace or to land to any aircraft they like.
Yeah, no, they’re not gonna say no to a determined America under Trump. And indeed they haven’t. They’ve folded
They did say no. Yesterday 2 x C-17 took off from MCAS Miramar and turned back over the Gulf of Mexico when Colombia withdrew landing permission for Bogota. Thoughts and prayers for the crew who thought they were heading for a BIG night out in Ciudad del Pecado.
And then after that they surrendered. Do keep up
They point under discussion was whether they would ever deny airspace/landing to US aircraft. They did. That they said yes to a different aircraft a day later doesn't change the fact they denied entry to the C-17s and the crews complied.
"When you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow." (LBJ)
What was their legal position to refuse entry of Columbian citizens to Columbia?
Probably none, but Colombia can certainly refuse permission to enter their airspace or to land to any aircraft they like.
Yeah, no, they’re not gonna say no to a determined America under Trump. And indeed they haven’t. They’ve folded
They did say no. Yesterday 2 x C-17 took off from MCAS Miramar and turned back over the Gulf of Mexico when Colombia withdrew landing permission for Bogota. Thoughts and prayers for the crew who thought they were heading for a BIG night out in Ciudad del Pecado.
And then after that they surrendered. Do keep up
They point under discussion was whether they would ever deny airspace/landing to US aircraft. They did. That they said yes to a different aircraft a day later doesn't change the fact they denied entry to the C-17s and the crews complied.
GMB news talking piece on Southport. In spite of the massive failures of our institutions on Rudakabana apparently it is all the fault of a video on twitter.
Time our institutions accepted their failings and stopped looking to deflect.
Both can be true; events can have many causal factors.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
He's a disgrace.
Oh get a grip. Lots of people are anxious about money but you’re going into bat for people who have literally millions of pounds worth of assets but a low yield occasionally. Talk about a lack of perspective.
Hmmm. I don’t think I would describe it as ‘a low yield occasionally,’ especially not in the last few years with weather patterns and disease making things worse. As noted above, it’s mostly a low yield with random bumper years where you do very well.
Truthfully if we wanted a sane agricultural policy (which CAP, for example, was not) we would focus on giving guaranteed minimum incomes to those actually farming land responsibly and productively to drive agribusinesses out of business and guarantee cheap food locally.
But that won’t happen because DEFRA are the DfE on crack (and my father used to work for them, so that’s not personal).
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
He's a disgrace.
Oh get a grip. Lots of people are anxious about money but you’re going into bat for people who have literally millions of pounds worth of assets but a low yield occasionally. Talk about a lack of perspective.
Inflated agricultural land prices due to land speculation driven by IHT dodges is a large part of the reason that the return on capital employed is so poor for farmers.
Agricultural land prices have more than quadrupled in the last two decades, and more than half of agricultural land sold in 2023 went to non-farmers. That land price increase is obviously not driven by the increased profits from farming.
There's a real problem to be tackled. I think it could have been done better, for example exempting an estate where more than half of the deceased's income came from farming that land, but there will always be squealing from the speculators who see the paper value of their assets slashed in value.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
He's a disgrace.
Oh get a grip. Lots of people are anxious about money but you’re going into bat for people who have literally millions of pounds worth of assets but a low yield occasionally. Talk about a lack of perspective.
Hmmm. I don’t think I would describe it as ‘a low yield occasionally,’ especially not in the last few years with weather patterns and disease making things worse. As noted above, it’s mostly a low yield with random bumper years where you do very well.
Truthfully if we wanted a sane agricultural policy (which CAP, for example, was not) we would focus on giving guaranteed minimum incomes to those actually farming land responsibly and productively to drive agribusinesses out of business and guarantee cheap food locally.
But that won’t happen because DEFRA are the DfE on crack (and my father used to work for them, so that’s not personal).
I was saying that last night, that we should subsidise farm output, not farm land. Then tenant farmers alike also benefit. I am not anti farmer at all. However, apparently I am scum and a disgrace for this position bla bla.
If the goal is to encourage food production and food security then to me this is the best tool. Otherwise you’re just entrenching the position of people who are objectively in a very privileged position in terms of inheritance, regardless of the economics of farming.
Comments
That's an enormous amount of usable nuclear fuel. And nuclear experts who can say whether or not it's economically more beneficial to use it in reactors ?
The UK government has announced that the country's stockpile of some 140 tonnes of civil plutonium - currently stored at the Sellafield site in Cumbria - will be immobilised and eventually disposed of in a geological disposal facility
https://x.com/W_Nuclear_News/status/1882830251568599433
The tax avoidance could have been cracked down on with a targeted policy, not something that affects farmers who legitimately work their land.
I can't decide whether it's really good, or just a bit silly.
The basic principle is that if we want to subsidise food production, is exempting a specific class of asset related to that from tax the rest of us may have to pay if are lucky enough to own assets of that value the best way of doing it? Especially when that tax break is used by some extremely wealthy people who really don't need it. Or do we want some more direct subsidies that make farming more economic to start with?
You'll note few politicians and media commentators screaming blue murder over this policy have done so about Brexit, when that has badly hit many UK farmers and disincentivised food production because that's a policy that in many cases they supported and advocated enthusiastically despite its negative impact on farmers.
If the aim is really food security…
The State Department will continue to enforce and prioritize an America First agenda. Following President Petro’s refusal to accept two repatriation flights he previously authorized, @SecRubio immediately ordered a suspension of visa issuance at the U.S. Embassy Bogota consular section.
@SecRubio is now authorizing travel sanctions on individuals and their families, who were responsible for the interference of U.S. repatriation flight operations. Measures will continue until Colombia meets its obligations to accept the return of its own citizens. America will not back down when it comes to defending its national security interests.
https://bsky.app/profile/whiskeynachos.bsky.social/post/3lgocqpjhks2a
"Let's recap the timeline for those of you who haven't been following.
Friday: a deportation flight containing 88 Brazilians takes off from American soil. The deportees are handcuffed and bound in leg irons, as is standard practice on such flights. The Americans are flying into a trap.
I swear to God, Lula and Lewandowski have got to be laughing their asses off at the Plantalto that the result of their stunt is a Trump temper tantrum against Colombia.
Interior Minister Ricardo Lewandowski has ordered Federal police to board the plane when it stops to refuel in Manaus. Lula has made sure television cameras are on hand. The police pretend to be shocked to find the deportees restrained, and order them released on the spot.
Scenes of crying deportees fill the evening news. The grateful Brazilians are given showers and beds in the airport. Lula denounces the conditions, comparing them to SLAVE SHIPS, and says Brazil will accept no more flights until they're improved.
Saturday: a Brazilian air force aircraft arrives in Manaus to bring the Brazilians home. (a few stay, wanting to go to nearby locations) Powerful scenes fill the evening news as the grateful Brazilians sing the national anthem in unison as the plane takes off.
Sunday: these photos and videos have made the rounds in Latin America, and Colombia's president Petro is feeling political heat over flights scheduled to arrive today. He orders them stopped likewise until conditions are improved.
Donald Trump loses his shit. He is being played like a fiddle, but doesn't know it. He orders retaliation, and punitive sanctions and tariffs are impsed on Colombia.
Trump has just put sanctions on our largest supplier of cut flowers and coffee days before Valentine's day."
"Gen Z doubts about democracy laid bare in ‘worrying’ survey
More than half believe the UK should be a dictatorship and there’s a stark gender divide over equality, research for Channel 4 shows" (£)
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/media/article/gen-z-doubts-about-democracy-laid-bare-in-worrying-survey-vsxx509n3
"Most young people are in favour of turning the UK into a dictatorship, according to a “deeply worrying” study, which has revealed an acceptance of authoritarianism and radicalism among Generation Z.
Fifty-two per cent of Gen Z — people aged between 13 and 27 — said they thought “the UK would be a better place if a strong leader was in charge who does not have to bother with parliament and elections”.
Thirty-three per cent suggested the UK would be better off “if the army was in charge”.
Forty-seven per cent agreed that “the entire way our society is organised must be radically changed through revolution” — compared with 33 per cent of 45 to 65-year-olds."
The US gets Greenland and we pay them £90m a year, for 99 years.
I imagine the first LD leaflet for Qaqortoq South is already in the works.
Perhaps the USA could volunteer to take them - plenty of room and I suspect most Gazans simply want a better life for themselves and their families and isn’t that the definition of the American Dream?
The town on the southern end is called Bukavu so Google Maps tells me.
Make ready with Susannah Geckeloids...
In other words, it's about denying agency. Which means he's going to get a lot of pushback.
And now The Donald is in a position where *he* doesn't want to lose face.
Perhaps I'm being unduly negative, but this seems to be pretty shitty for the whole world - a constant series of escalations and trade barriers that make everyone poorer.
https://x.com/presssec/status/1883716584843391025
I suspect this is rather dependent upon starting point - UK prices, for example, were already high in 2005. But you can see why Canadians are not amused. And that there has been a huge housing crash in Finland:
https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland/finland-news/domestic/25713-hs-finnish-house-prices-are-historically-low-relative-to-wages.html
I thought Goma might be somewhere near Crawley.
A new AI chatbot called Deepseek has landed and it seems to be causing a stir. Nvidia down by 5% so far along with other tech stocks. Apparently it is not only very good but cost pennies compared to the others to launch. It also could mean a dramatic reduction in the need for capex. So presumably if it hurts the likes of Nvidia there will be other winners.
I mainly use Claude and perplexity.
https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/1883685320845353466?s=61
I was talking to a Northern Irish colleague at work last week, whose family farm - livestock - has been in the family for over 200 years.
In a normal year, they make about 0.5% profit if things go well. Just one inheritance tax charge on their farmland means the farm is gone from their family for good.
They can't pay.
Dr Emmett Brown would make excellent use of that in his converted DeLorean.
I've got farmer friends whose families are sick with stress. None have a penny to rub together.
This is going to totally ruin their livelihood.
There is CAT to be paid when inheriting a farm in the 26 counties, I should know as I fucking paid enough of it, and yet they still seem to manage to have farms.
In short, fuck them. They probably voted for brexit anyway.
Trying to think outside the box, perhaps by setting up a small shop or a restaurant, results in vocal opposition from the local townsfolk.
The end result of the tax changes are that family farms either get split up on the sale of estate, reducing economies of scale for the next generation, or they get sold out completely to private equity or large farming corporates.
There's a degree of controversy about what hardware it actually used., so it was probably but quite so cheap as originally thought.
But yes, it's not the greatest news for those spending many billions on the technology.
This is very different from a regular, salaried income, and means they have a firm focus on money all year around. It's also partly a reason why so many farmers have tried diversifying where possible.
In addition, capital expenditures tend to be *very* high, sometimes for equipment that is only used for a few weeks or a month of the year.
If you were a farmer, you might have the same mindset...
(In case anyone is in doubt, I am utterly nonplussed by the name change.)
The Right Wing media have dubbed it the "family farm tax" (no idea where the phrase started from), in their search for purchase.
I'm not sure how much further Reform we have coming on things like wealth taxes, Council Tax and similar. I think (and I think most here agree) that some quite major reform is indicated, even if we all differ in specifics.
I think the Tories have a problem in that they walked away from much of their long term claimed policy platform in their attempts to save the election - housebuilding, financial probity and so on. The attempt failed comprehensively and they are trying to rebuild on a political landscape they salted.
At the moment they don't even know in which direction they want to go and seem to me to be having a faction fight - are they going Monday Club / nativist
with Bobby J, or for something a little more mainstream?
Though HMS Ajax was also at Trafalgar, so it could be they were having a pop at both. It is definitely a prominent name.
There will be a syrupy press release about it somewhere !
I don't think it's possible to state their position any more succintly or accurately than that.
In the year 2024 the UK spent £5.4 BILLION on housing and hosting asylum seekers. A number that has quintupled in three years and will only get worse with every boat
So the tax that is destroying farming brings in less than 10% of what we are spending on unwanted foreigners going in hotels. We are destroying ourselves to feed Albanians buffet breakfasts in pleasant rooms near the M1
It is pure and absolute madness. It is hardly surprising that young people want a ruthless dictatorship
Trump is showing that you can just do this. Just load them on a plane and dump them in foreign countries. America is powerful
Europe is also powerful. All of Europe is plagued by illegal migrants and asylum seekers, the voters will soon start demanding that we do what Trump is doing. Because we can no longer afford to house the world
The contrast between a vigorous, belligerent America sorting shit out PDQ will be too painful for Europeans governed by spineless woke cowards
A more sensible approach would be near-immediate processing (reject and deport; accept and permit to work so they can stand on their own two feet).
Let's see if Labour successfully reduces that spend. But it's a red herring to say 'here is an example of Tory wasteful spending, therefore modest tax increases are not permitted'.
Incidentally, I think part of the problem of our politics is we consider £500m here and there to not be worth bothering about (both on tax and spend). Watch the hundreds of millions and you soon save real money...
But as with anything to do with AI and China, there’s a very large pinch of salt involved until we understand what exactly it is. They have every reason to fake something in order to disrupt their many Western competitors.
Is this simply not a false narrative aka fake news?
Trump chained them up like a 1920s chain gang, and sent them on military planes.
The Colombian President said - no, treat our people like human beings and send them on civilian flights. And Trump got hold of the wrong end of the shtick and threw a tantrum, as is his habit.
So now we have a better proposal, and this spin.
I think Trump's habit of believing his own BS, and acting on the basis as if it was true, covered by the noisy MAGA wibbling machine, is going to be one of the factors that will undermine him eventually.
Trump's effective policy of treating people as subhuman in order to generate fear in others and scare them away, is at least risky for him.
We are hurtling towards a reform government which will be modelled on Trump 2.0
Your only point of "evidence" is a fictional character from a soap opera, so I think we can treat your post accordingly.
Doubtless there will be Reasons why this has happened - absolutely nothing to do whatever with your support for this stupid policy.
More seriously, this seems to be linked to an earlier incident in Manaus where the Brazilians caught the US doing the same thing live on camera and the leftist government staged a propaganda coup* exposing it causing the Colombians to revoke flight permissions for these aircraft.
It does highlight Trump’s instability and confusion, but then that hardly needs highlighting.
*Not to be confused with an actual coup, which is the sort of thing best left to Trump.
The scale of the illegal immigration problem is quite something, some journalists just discovered a city of up to 75,000 illegals in the middle of the desert in Texas, that had apparently been built by local builders offering their own finance.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/inside-colony-ridge-the-fastest-growing-development-in-the-u-s-is-a-magnet-for-illegal-immigrants
I bet the total spend on asylum hotels will be lower in 2028 than 2024.
And the farm policy won't be reversed by whoever the next government is.
I'm running it LOCALLY ON MY PHONE. I turned off all internet access to be 100% sure, and yes, it works, and it's reasoning capability is excellent. AND IT'S ON MY PHONE.
It's a 1.5bn parameter model that matches OpenAI's 4o in many benchmarks and it runs at acceptable speed on my phone. People have tested it on Raspberry Pi's and gotten 200+ tokens per second.
Here's the thing: that Google memo "there's no moat" is turning out to be spot on.
The public will give little credit to a Government where 30-50k come across the Channel illegally each year but 85%+ are quickly granted asylum whilst the rest are booted out; the only benefit would be reduced hotel bills.
Anyway I'm off to Hamburg to sell a comapny, have a good day.
Perhaps they’ve seen Con Air, someone had to watch it.
Have a good journey. Looks like being a shit day for travelling.
https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2022-0113
I love its real life chain of thought processes. It feels very very very very much like AGI
Remember an excellent drama set in Auschwitz called ‘God on Trial’, a rather haunting piece.
I loved the lefty Colombian’s Marxist lamentations. “We will never kneel before the white enslaver! I love Chomsky! Go to hell horrible gringo!”
And then he surrendered
They are perfectly correct to refuse deportees from other countries, and to refuse military transports with unknown passengers.
Colombia have had loads of civilian flights with deportees in recent years received without complaint.
Sad, I know, but it is the sort of thing this technology was developed for !!!
It did but the cast was contemporary. I told it that so it recast perfectly.
It also came up with a 5 story Dr Who season based on the early seventies. It was good.
I also asked it for a recipe for apple wine. I then queried the process and got a very coherent answer. Quite impressed. I used mainly Claude and Perplexity. ChatGPT is shit. But this looks good
“Colombia Agrees to Accept Deportation Flights After Trump Threatens Tariffs
The country’s leader, Gustavo Petro, backed down after a clash with President Trump, which started when Mr. Petro turned back U.S. military planes carrying deportees.”
NYT
I also think it'd be politically more popular than asylum hotels if combined with reduced migration elsewhere. 35-50k is peanuts in that context.
But if you disagree, a more coherent approach than Rwanda etc would be to tighten the eligibility criteria for asylum. Combined with quicker processing.
On the face of it they appear to have folded.
Perhaps the truth will out
I am impressed that it seems to learn from you but then so do others. I have tried Gemini, Chat GPT, CoPilot, Claude an Perplexity and I Think the last two are pretty good. the rest Meh
https://x.com/presssec/status/1883716584843391025?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Time our institutions accepted their failings and stopped looking to deflect.
Truthfully if we wanted a sane agricultural policy (which CAP, for example, was not) we would focus on giving guaranteed minimum incomes to those actually farming land responsibly and productively to drive agribusinesses out of business and guarantee cheap food locally.
But that won’t happen because DEFRA are the DfE on crack (and my father used to work for them, so that’s not personal).
Agricultural land prices have more than quadrupled in the last two decades, and more than half of agricultural land sold in 2023 went to non-farmers. That land price increase is obviously not driven by the increased profits from farming.
There's a real problem to be tackled. I think it could have been done better, for example exempting an estate where more than half of the deceased's income came from farming that land, but there will always be squealing from the speculators who see the paper value of their assets slashed in value.
This is a really interesting article on censorship in AI generally with a focus on Deepseek
If the goal is to encourage food production and food security then to me this is the best tool. Otherwise you’re just entrenching the position of people who are objectively in a very privileged position in terms of inheritance, regardless of the economics of farming.