Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Where some farmers are forced to sell up yes will the US agribusinesses that replace them care about the British landscape and managing it well for its long term preservation for future generations and meeting the nation's food supply needs? No they will use it solely to make a profit and if they can't do that anymore will sod off
If there’s such a threat from US agribusinesses, then presumably we need state intervention to prevent the excesses of capitalism.
It is quite lol but it is also a massive challenge to European governments
Trump is showing that you can just do this. Just load them on a plane and dump them in foreign countries. America is powerful
Europe is also powerful. All of Europe is plagued by illegal migrants and asylum seekers, the voters will soon start demanding that we do what Trump is doing. Because we can no longer afford to house the world
Trump is taking a lot of the Liberal West's sacred cows on a one way trip to the abattoir. It remains to be seen how fast Europeans start to follow his lead.
Well he’s certainly turned up prepared, and with plenty of people behind him to make sure that stuff actually happens, as opposed to last time around when large numbers of civil servants managed to get in the way of his agenda.
Trump is better prepared this time. He has hit the ground running and has overloaded the media with initiatives that they they havent got the time to freak out. Too many outrage buses departing at once. It will of course slack off but by then he'll have his feet under the table and will be off annoying foreign governments.
Anyway I'm off to Hamburg to sell a comapny, have a good day.
Trump does seem far better prepared and is getting shit done. People may or may not support him but he is doing what he said he would.
Have a good journey. Looks like being a shit day for travelling.
They didn’t like the idea of US Military aircraft landing at their airport, and turned them around. The US Mil pilots thought that invading Colombia was probably a bad idea, and went back to the US.
More likely the Colombians just don’t like Donald Trump, but they’ve quickly agreed to accept civilian flights of their own citizens illegally living in the US. Now they need to find a civvie plane and crew who will operate the flights.
It is quite lol but it is also a massive challenge to European governments
Trump is showing that you can just do this. Just load them on a plane and dump them in foreign countries. America is powerful
Europe is also powerful. All of Europe is plagued by illegal migrants and asylum seekers, the voters will soon start demanding that we do what Trump is doing. Because we can no longer afford to house the world
ICE deported more than 271,000 unauthorized immigrants in fiscal year 2024, the highest tally recorded by the agency since fiscal year 2014, when the Obama administration carried out 316,000 deportations. In fiscal year 2019, ICE reported 267,000 deportations, the peak under the Trump administration. Fiscal years start in October and end in September.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
He's a disgrace.
Oh get a grip. Lots of people are anxious about money but you’re going into bat for people who have literally millions of pounds worth of assets but a low yield occasionally. Talk about a lack of perspective.
Nevertheless, it was still a ridiculous ditch for you to die in. You've said (several times) "Why should farmers' assets be treated differently?" and been given several excellent reasons why they should be treated differently. Then you've got yourself into introducing a whole new imaginary subsidy to compensate farmers for this change, which may or may not be fine, but would doubtless cost a vast amount more than the paltry sum Labour will take for this scheme. So there would be less than no point.
It's the same with this millionaires 'Piss off then' attitude - Labour and their supporters don't accept it when their concept of 'fairness' comes into contact with the real world where people have choices and respond to economic stimuli. You're meant to make policy that accounts for human behaviour and incentivises it, not throws a strop when people aren't grateful at how 'fair' you think you're being.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
He's a disgrace.
Oh get a grip. Lots of people are anxious about money but you’re going into bat for people who have literally millions of pounds worth of assets but a low yield occasionally. Talk about a lack of perspective.
Hmmm. I don’t think I would describe it as ‘a low yield occasionally,’ especially not in the last few years with weather patterns and disease making things worse. As noted above, it’s mostly a low yield with random bumper years where you do very well.
Truthfully if we wanted a sane agricultural policy (which CAP, for example, was not) we would focus on giving guaranteed minimum incomes to those actually farming land responsibly and productively to drive agribusinesses out of business and guarantee cheap food locally.
But that won’t happen because DEFRA are the DfE on crack (and my father used to work for them, so that’s not personal).
I was saying that last night, that we should subsidise farm output, not farm land. Then tenant farmers alike also benefit. I am not anti farmer at all. However, apparently I am scum and a disgrace for this position bla bla.
If the goal is to encourage food production and food security then to me this is the best tool. Otherwise you’re just entrenching the position of people who are objectively in a very privileged position in terms of inheritance, regardless of the economics of farming.
The issue there aiui is that that was done for a generation after the war, and achieved increased output, but gave us industrialised farming, pesticide pollution, hedge rows (eg) ripped out, and grain deserts in East Anglia.
We moved on from that when all our birds, insects and wildlife vanished, and our rivers and streams became pollution sewers.
I'm sure the model needs evolving further, however we need a new synthesis which does not cause the same downside as previously.
Yes, the Colombia nonsense is being played as some huge victory for Trump whereas it’s the nuance between receiving your deported citizens on civilian flights as distinct from military flights.
It’s analogous to using the RAF to send migrants to Rwanda rather than chartering commercial flights. I imagine the RAF would argue they’d be better defending NATO airspace than sending three or four migrants to the middle of Africa.
Getting the asylum process under control will be a big win for Labour and that should reduce the numbers in hotels and elsewhere. The bigger question is legal migration and the debate around that which we’ve not really had because of all the nonsense about “stop the boats”.
The true grotesquerie of the farm tax is that it brings in about £520m MAX - if might be less
In the year 2024 the UK spent £5.4 BILLION on housing and hosting asylum seekers. A number that has quintupled in three years and will only get worse with every boat
So the tax that is destroying farming brings in less than 10% of what we are spending on unwanted foreigners going in hotels. We are destroying ourselves to feed Albanians buffet breakfasts in pleasant rooms near the M1
It is pure and absolute madness. It is hardly surprising that young people want a ruthless dictatorship
60 something sozzled journalists may want a ruthless dictatorship but don't project onto the young your own prejudices.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
He's a disgrace.
Oh get a grip. Lots of people are anxious about money but you’re going into bat for people who have literally millions of pounds worth of assets but a low yield occasionally. Talk about a lack of perspective.
You're an idiot. It's not a realisable asset without making the entire business unviable.
The very fact you think it is just shows up you to be an ignorant Townie.
It is quite lol but it is also a massive challenge to European governments
Trump is showing that you can just do this. Just load them on a plane and dump them in foreign countries. America is powerful
Europe is also powerful. All of Europe is plagued by illegal migrants and asylum seekers, the voters will soon start demanding that we do what Trump is doing. Because we can no longer afford to house the world
Trump is taking a lot of the Liberal West's sacred cows on a one way trip to the abattoir. It remains to be seen how fast Europeans start to follow his lead.
Well he’s certainly turned up prepared, and with plenty of people behind him to make sure that stuff actually happens, as opposed to last time around when large numbers of civil servants managed to get in the way of his agenda.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
He's a disgrace.
Oh get a grip. Lots of people are anxious about money but you’re going into bat for people who have literally millions of pounds worth of assets but a low yield occasionally. Talk about a lack of perspective.
Nevertheless, it was still a ridiculous ditch for you to die in. You've said (several times) "Why should farmers' assets be treated differently?" and been given several excellent reasons why they should be treated differently. Then you've got yourself into introducing a whole new imaginary subsidy to compensate farmers for this change, which may or may not be fine, but would doubtless cost a vast amount more than the paltry sum Labour will take for this scheme. So there would be less than no point.
It's the same with this millionaires 'Piss off then' attitude - Labour and their supporters don't accept it when their concept of 'fairness' comes into contact with the real world where people have choices and respond to economic stimuli. You're meant to make policy that accounts for human behaviour and incentivises it, not throws a strop when people aren't grateful at how 'fair' you think you're being.
I don’t agree. I agree food security is an issue but I disagree that this subsidy solved the issue now (even before the changes come into play). Therefore my position is logically sound, even if you disagree with it.
You’re trying your hardest to turn this into an ideological argument but it’s far more basic than that - I am simply refusing to buy into the crocodile tears of people who are quite literally millionaires. Even though it is shit, if their farms go out of business, they are still in a much better position than 90% of the population. That isn’t bitterness, it’s just reality.
In my view, government is not there to protect the assets of millionaires, but to create an environment where people can BECOME millionaires through work or through investment or business or whatever. That’s the “American dream” and the driver of support for capitalism over the last 200 years.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
He's a disgrace.
Oh get a grip. Lots of people are anxious about money but you’re going into bat for people who have literally millions of pounds worth of assets but a low yield occasionally. Talk about a lack of perspective.
You're an idiot. It's not a realisable asset without making the entire business unviable.
The very fact you think it is just shows up you to be an ignorant Townie.
I bet you the farmers are still in business and still moaning in 5 years time.
The true grotesquerie of the farm tax is that it brings in about £520m MAX - if might be less
In the year 2024 the UK spent £5.4 BILLION on housing and hosting asylum seekers. A number that has quintupled in three years and will only get worse with every boat
So the tax that is destroying farming brings in less than 10% of what we are spending on unwanted foreigners going in hotels. We are destroying ourselves to feed Albanians buffet breakfasts in pleasant rooms near the M1
It is pure and absolute madness. It is hardly surprising that young people want a ruthless dictatorship
60 something sozzled journalists may want a ruthless dictatorship but don't project onto the young your own prejudices.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
I am sick and tired of Labour supporters like you backing your useless government trashing farmers, pensioners and small business owners to enrich your client vote like GPs and train drivers.
The NHS received billions upon billions in the Tory years without any real efficiency savings or changes to the way it was funded
Well said, we haven't agreed on a lot in the last decade but I feel like this an issue that unites a lot of Tories and people on the centre right. Labour are destroying our nation at the altar of NHS spending. Our farmers are going to be driven out of business and be forced to sell their land to giant American agribusinesses and the NHS is going to be as bad as it ever was.
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
IHT is on death. If a farmer gifts land 7 years or before dying it’s exempt. So let’s not go overboard on this.
However, it’s a bit of a half-baked reform that has created some collateral damage. There are various ways it could be tightened up. One would be a requirement that the landowner has their permanent residence on the farm. The other that their income is from farming, not rental from tenants. And so on.
Quite so.
I'd rather see the IHT reforms, and proper support for farming done separately (some perhaps in the way you suggest). Not left as a huge subsidy scheme for tax-minimisers.. If Jeremy Clarkson can come out and admit it on prime TV ...
Anyone in her party who tweets or speaks on camera saying Trump is the new messiah and England should worship him and Musk she should sack immediately. Braverman out etc
Paint Reform as Trump Party (English branch). Make Farage own Trump.
If/when Trump chaos 2.0 wrecks world economy and american civil peace and order she will reap the rewards.
As I say, it's a gamble. But she is running out of options.
That's not a gamble, it's a left wing person's political wet dream. No remotely impartial or informed strategist would suggest something so stupid.
It gets to the basic problem the Tories have though, which can be seen if you look at each party's voters view of Trump and Musk. A majority still saying they'll vote Tory hold profoundly negative views of Trump. Reform is the only party whose voters have a net positive view. That correlates with a form of anti-establishment, anti-institutional thinking that views all mainstream politicians and parties as having failed and radical right-wingers as the answer.
So going down the 'let's be more Reformy' route maybe a dead end - because you can't be the insurgents, you're the Conservative Party and have ruled Britain for two thirds of the last 50 years. And by being more Reform you may lose your remaining institutionalist voters while not gaining much in the way of those who support Reform because they want to smash up the system.
It still might be a longshot but their best bet might be ditching the populism - which partly damns your selves - and trying to rebrand as an institutionalist alternative to Labour and the Lib Dems with a more right-wing economic bent. Because it's difficult to see how you get your populist 2019 Boris voters back now Reform are a serious rival.
Right wing policies are not 'Reformy' - they are Tory policies. Reducing immigration to the low tens of thousands was a policy that was central to the manifestos of repeated Conservative election victories, and they repeatedly blew it. The same for reducing taxes, a tough approach to law and order, and shrinking the size of the state. The only reason there is 'an insurgency' is because the Tories have promised these policies, repeatedly failed to deliver.
I would also argue that the old consensus in politics is dying - look at the way Starmer and Reeves are now scrambling for growth. Why would you want to get on board that sinking ship?
And that's a problem for the Tories currently - Labour have been terrible but by and large they've continued the policies of the Sunak Government. Net Zero, lax immigration, low growth, high taxes - they have all been accelerated by Labour but they were well underway with the Tories.
Rishi cut immigration more than Boris to be fair to him and never targeted pensioners, small businesses and farmers like Labour have
That is not true - there was already a deeply ingrained very anti-farmer/food production policy in the UK. Subsidies for rewilding, cash rewards for leaving the industry etc. - listen to the farmers on the protests, they will laugh if you tell them the anti-farmer stuff started with SKS. Like everything else, it has just accelerated.
A bit of rewilding was a drop in the ocean compared to the imposition of 20% IHT on agricultural land over £1 million
Only 20%. The rest of us should be so lucky.
What we need are policies to support farming - not perpetuate the landowner tax fiddle.
Crap, the average farmer earns little more than average salary, taxing their farmland too is just going to devastate our food producers
You're maliciously conflating farming with landownership. As always.
The imposition of 20% inheritance tax on land previously covered by agricultural property relief of course primarily hits farmers that is why
No, it does not. It hits landowners primarily.
Landowning farmers yes
The tax regulations for APR say landowners. Nowhere does it say farmers. I should know - I had to deal with it for a relative.
That's the primary role of APR and its removal. Farmers are a secondary issue, a subcategory.
Most of those who own land worth over £1 million who previously could claim APR on it are farmers and it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
Your vile class ridden attack on the food producing backbone of this nation to pursue your class war aims is beneath contempt
Your avatar is starting to make sense. Don't worry - when your Master dies, you might end up at Sir Keir's donkey santuary.
Vile comment, this despicable government supported by the likes of you have declared war on the farming community but don't worry, it will be reciprocated.
I doubt there will be a single Labour MP left from a rural or semi rural seat after the next general election
Tiny violins out again for the millionaires
Sod off you pathetic little twat
Even if I sod off, they’re still millionaires
Being a millionaire ought to be something we celebrate, considering the amount of tax they contribute to the exchequer.
I didn’t say it was a negative thing. It just means they shouldn’t be crying about losing a tax-break.
The tax break is for farmland not holidays in the Caribbean, Ferraris and Michelin starred restaurants and Eton fees.
The average farmer earns £24,730 a year, you are clueless on this issue
I would live like a king on £24,730 a year and no mortgage.
On less than average salary you wouldn't and once this tax comes in most farmers would be on minimum wage at best rates given the average farmer works 65 hours a week
It is scum like you who support this useless government who are the reason this Labour government is already one of the most despised in history
I may be scum but I am not a millionaire.
I don’t really know why you're having this argument. Clearly it's not a very good policy, and it's going to raise an extremely tiny amount of money for a great deal of aggravation and possibly real harm. Defend the Government when it does something right.
Because I actually support this policy? I am sick and tired of people in this country constantly moaning about how bad they have it when they just don’t. If we are going to sort out our finances then everyone has to pull their weight and that includes millionaire farmers and pensioners with enough money to heat their homes. The Tories have spent the last 14 years enriching their client vote and now they are fuming Labour are not. Boo hoo.
You say that without having ever been a farmer though. They have terrible conditions and few of them do it for the money. Anyone who wants to become a farmer needs money to burn because they will never really find any profit in it, at least not in the UK.
They don’t do it out of the goodness of their heart, that’s romanticised and naive nonsense.
The big agribusinesses you're thinking of aren't covered by this change, a lot of them are foreign owned. This change targets family run farms run by British people and a lot of them are in it because they love to farm despite all of the terrible conditions. You really are quite clueless about it. Who should I trust about food security, Sainsbury's and Tesco or you, a bitter city dwelling Labour voter?
I’m not bitter as I support the policy
And yet you're positively gleeful to destroy family run farms and businesses because you hate them for voting to leave the EU.
They are literally millionaires.
But you're not bitter? Pull the other one. It's base envy and nothing more. These people are out there feeding the nation at 1-2% annual yields on the capital values you ascribe to them. All you see is the land value and you're bitter and jealous of it, what I see is a hard working farmer up against inflation, climate change and variable market pricing looking to eke out 3% in a good year.
He's a disgrace.
Oh get a grip. Lots of people are anxious about money but you’re going into bat for people who have literally millions of pounds worth of assets but a low yield occasionally. Talk about a lack of perspective.
Hmmm. I don’t think I would describe it as ‘a low yield occasionally,’ especially not in the last few years with weather patterns and disease making things worse. As noted above, it’s mostly a low yield with random bumper years where you do very well.
Truthfully if we wanted a sane agricultural policy (which CAP, for example, was not) we would focus on giving guaranteed minimum incomes to those actually farming land responsibly and productively to drive agribusinesses out of business and guarantee cheap food locally.
But that won’t happen because DEFRA are the DfE on crack (and my father used to work for them, so that’s not personal).
I was saying that last night, that we should subsidise farm output, not farm land. Then tenant farmers alike also benefit. I am not anti farmer at all. However, apparently I am scum and a disgrace for this position bla bla.
If the goal is to encourage food production and food security then to me this is the best tool. Otherwise you’re just entrenching the position of people who are objectively in a very privileged position in terms of inheritance, regardless of the economics of farming.
Don't let them bully you out of a nuanced position.
We know that the farming is incredibly difficult, and the business worth little due to those poor returns. If family farms are broken up due to IHT changes, it's because they own the land they farm and the value of it has been grossly inflated by property development and tax dodging.
Any policy that alters that is going to hurt landowner balance sheets, whether through IHT or through a transaction tax or whatever.
The true grotesquerie of the farm tax is that it brings in about £520m MAX - if might be less
In the year 2024 the UK spent £5.4 BILLION on housing and hosting asylum seekers. A number that has quintupled in three years and will only get worse with every boat
So the tax that is destroying farming brings in less than 10% of what we are spending on unwanted foreigners going in hotels. We are destroying ourselves to feed Albanians buffet breakfasts in pleasant rooms near the M1
It is pure and absolute madness. It is hardly surprising that young people want a ruthless dictatorship
The £5bn was a Tory policy to not bother processing asylum claims.
A more sensible approach would be near-immediate processing (reject and deport; accept and permit to work so they can stand on their own two feet).
Let's see if Labour successfully reduces that spend. But it's a red herring to say 'here is an example of Tory wasteful spending, therefore modest tax increases are not permitted'.
Incidentally, I think part of the problem of our politics is we consider £500m here and there to not be worth bothering about (both on tax and spend). Watch the hundreds of millions and you soon save real money...
Immediate processing would be good but that doesn't get round the problem that under current rules almost everyone qualifies.
The public will give little credit to a Government where 30-50k come across the Channel illegally each year but 85%+ are quickly granted asylum whilst the rest are booted out; the only benefit would be reduced hotel bills.
Personally I'd much rather have a larger number approved and becoming functioning members of society than wasting billions storing them in hotels and disrupting a part of the relevant local communities.
I also think it'd be politically more popular than asylum hotels if combined with reduced migration elsewhere. 35-50k is peanuts in that context.
But if you disagree, a more coherent approach than Rwanda etc would be to tighten the eligibility criteria for asylum. Combined with quicker processing.
This is very liberal view of immigration that views it as a "process" based issue and isn't concerned with the numbers at all.
I would agree with tightening the eligibility criteria for asylum. I think that's essential.
It is quite lol but it is also a massive challenge to European governments
Trump is showing that you can just do this. Just load them on a plane and dump them in foreign countries. America is powerful
Europe is also powerful. All of Europe is plagued by illegal migrants and asylum seekers, the voters will soon start demanding that we do what Trump is doing. Because we can no longer afford to house the world
You do realise that, for now, they are deporting no more than Biden was ?
The victory, to accept Trump's description, is largely performative. How consequential it turns out remains to be seen.
"When you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow." (LBJ)
What was their legal position to refuse entry of Columbian citizens to Columbia?
Probably none, but Colombia can certainly refuse permission to enter their airspace or to land to any aircraft they like.
Until the Donald decides to land anyway and do so with a fighter escort.
In which case Colombia could do absolutely nothing about it.
You do recognise, I hope, that such a scenario would be disastrous for global stability, if the US military just barged into other countries? We’ve spent three quarters of a century building up an international order where countries (most of the time) respect each others’ international borders.
And although there has been much comment on here about Reform as an existential threat to the Tories, the example of France suggests Reform could represent an existential threat to Labour, as well.
Le Pen hasbeen canny enough to move away from free market positions on the economy, towards a strong defence of state spending and looking after the poorer off.
Comments
More likely the Colombians just don’t like Donald Trump, but they’ve quickly agreed to accept civilian flights of their own citizens illegally living in the US. Now they need to find a civvie plane and crew who will operate the flights.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/deportations-by-ice-10-year-high-in-2024-surpassing-trump-era-peak/
ICE deported more than 271,000 unauthorized immigrants in fiscal year 2024, the highest tally recorded by the agency since fiscal year 2014, when the Obama administration carried out 316,000 deportations. In fiscal year 2019, ICE reported 267,000 deportations, the peak under the Trump administration. Fiscal years start in October and end in September.
It's the same with this millionaires 'Piss off then' attitude - Labour and their supporters don't accept it when their concept of 'fairness' comes into contact with the real world where people have choices and respond to economic stimuli. You're meant to make policy that accounts for human behaviour and incentivises it, not throws a strop when people aren't grateful at how 'fair' you think you're being.
NEW THREAD
We moved on from that when all our birds, insects and wildlife vanished, and our rivers and streams became pollution sewers.
I'm sure the model needs evolving further, however we need a new synthesis which does not cause the same downside as previously.
https://x.com/billmelugin_/status/1883719798389141799?s=46
It’s analogous to using the RAF to send migrants to Rwanda rather than chartering commercial flights. I imagine the RAF would argue they’d be better defending NATO airspace than sending three or four migrants to the middle of Africa.
Getting the asylum process under control will be a big win for Labour and that should reduce the numbers in hotels and elsewhere. The bigger question is legal migration and the debate around that which we’ve not really had because of all the nonsense about “stop the boats”.
“At the end of September 2024, there were 109,024 individuals in receipt of asylum support, 12% fewer than a year prior.” https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-september-2024/how-many-cases-are-in-the-uk-asylum-system#how-many-asylum-seekers-are-receiving-housing-and-financial-support
The very fact you think it is just shows up you to be an ignorant Townie.
You’re trying your hardest to turn this into an ideological argument but it’s far more basic than that - I am simply refusing to buy into the crocodile tears of people who are quite literally millionaires. Even though it is shit, if their farms go out of business, they are still in a much better position than 90% of the population. That isn’t bitterness, it’s just reality.
In my view, government is not there to protect the assets of millionaires, but to create an environment where people can BECOME millionaires through work or through investment or business or whatever. That’s the “American dream” and the driver of support for capitalism over the last 200 years.
We know that the farming is incredibly difficult, and the business worth little due to those poor returns. If family farms are broken up due to IHT changes, it's because they own the land they farm and the value of it has been grossly inflated by property development and tax dodging.
Any policy that alters that is going to hurt landowner balance sheets, whether through IHT or through a transaction tax or whatever.
I would agree with tightening the eligibility criteria for asylum. I think that's essential.
In which case Colombia could do absolutely nothing about it.
Is there more than one of you?
The victory, to accept Trump's description, is largely performative. How consequential it turns out remains to be seen.