A revealing interview (20 minutes) with Andrew Hale, a Senior Policy Analyst from the Heritage Foundation on GB News. It is about UK relations with a Trump administration.
Jeez, that's worrying. Trump is a thin-skinned king with a long memory and things like sending activists to help Kamala will be punished in a painful manner. So they are going to threaten the UK with tariffs and if profound apologies and policy changes do not result, they will turn the screws on us.
You would have thought this might have occurred to Starmer and Labour before they did what they did. “What happens if Harris LOSES and we are left with a vengeful President Trump? Is it worth the potential grief for the UK, maybe we should hang back and not send 100 activists to help the Dems? It won’t make any difference to her chances either way”
They are clueless flailing childish idiots. We are governed, without exaggeration, by morons who can’t think more than 10 minutes ahead
Utter morons and when labour complain about Musk interefering in UK politics this gets thrown back at them,.
At least people from the other parties who went over to campaign for the Hapless Harris, like Robert Buckland former Tory Minister, went as individuals not through an organised group.
Combining anti-Americanism with the belief that we are participants in American politics is a dangerous mix.
Growth of 0.1% could easily be a contraction of 0.1% or worse after revisions.
Or growth of 0.2%. GDP estimates go all over the place when they’re revised but in recent years they’ve tended to go up.
I think that that you are missing the important PB herd consensus:
Under Tory chancellors revisions are always upwards under Labour ones always downwards.
Similarly rich people need bumper payrises to motivate them, poor people getting payrises are a drag on productivity.
I've taken to scrolling past the "Reeves is shit" posters, the Tory/Reform/ Trump/Musk rampers and when they are on, the race baiters. There not much left to read. I note with sadness the non-RefCon post count has diminished considerably.
Pity she really is shit though.
Quite. The "Reeves is shit" comments might be less annoying for PB lefties if Reeves wasn't so painfully and obviously, well, shit
Mathhew Parris demolishes her here, showing that the old coot still has a bit of kick in him
"Where was the evidence of capability, or of any plan? There was never good reason to believe that Labour knew what to do. The Chancellor has not changed: she is now, as she was in opposition, an empty vessel. The Prime Minister has not changed: he is still today, as he was when opposition leader, bereft of ideas. Commentators were too credulous. The emperor never did have any clothes."
He's just paying the rent. In his final Times column he said people should stop expecting big plans from politicians.
Has he retired from the Times? Didn't know that
I rather liked him, it's a shame he went quite mad after Brexit (like others)
Seems to be partly recovered
He has yes. Replaced by, I'm sorry to report, Fraser Nelson. His debut column last week being a mealy-mouthed offering on Elon Musk's shenanigans.
Parris had some good contributions: he did one article on going into courts as an observer and noting the human cost of crime in the criminals and victims. He also did one in the Gordon Brown age when he pointed out that intolerable things can continue for a long time. But he then did one about a East coast seaside town about how they were depressing and poor and should be abandoned by the Conservatives as a dead loss, and I went right off him. I'm sure he makes some good points occasionally, but that will always colour my opinion of him, and there aren't that many Speccie columnists I like anyway, although that junkie travel writer is occasionally interesting.
I've been off Parris since 2007, when he wrote a poisonous Christmas column about stringing piano wire at neck height across cycle paths (Rod Liddle did something similar more recently). Then pretended it was a joke (as they always do) to avoid looking himself in the mirror.
At the time (as now) it was a practice that happened occasionally, causing serious injury for some.
Apart from the other things wrong with it, this part is bizarre "lodged high in hedgerows at cyclist level. Forgive me, but pedestrians were not the culprits here". What does he think modern cyclists use, penny farthings? Cyclists, particularly road ones, don't have their hands substantially higher than pedestrians.
Two explanations are possible:
1 - He lives in an obscure bit of Derbyshire where hedgerows may be low. 2 - He was writing for the Spectator at the time, so he may have picked up the assumption about Penny Farthings by osmosis.
A friend’s father once told Princess Anne to ‘fuck off out of here’.
He didn’t realise it was her, she had some unruly dogs attacking other dogs/harassing other animals in the countryside somewhere, one of the dogs was his so he was quite het up.
But the question we all need to know is whether Princess Anne did indeed "fuck off" ?
She did.
I once saw Princess Anne in a minibus near Buckingham Palace.
I mean, I have mentioned this one before, but I think asking Harold Shipman, who taught a class I attended for a while, how his day has gone, and receiving the reply that an old lady had 'died on him', then having quite an earnest conversation on how you dealt with that kind of thing, is sort of seared on my memory.
My father used to work with him. I am told that when I was 7ish I used to play chess with him, but I have no recollection of this (or, indeed, ever meeting him).
My dad, in his British Rail days, escorted Harold Wilson on a trip from London to Liverpool. I, by contrast, have met Lloyd Russell-Moyle.
I saw Harold Wilson in the Scilly Isles when I was a kid and he was the Prime Minister. He and his wife were walking their dog on the beach being largely left alone apart from a few people who cordially said hello and were given an equally cordial hello back. No police, no security, just the PM, his wife and the dog. I was 11, playing football on the sand and just blithely assumed this is the kind of thing that happens. A very different world.
If it's not a ridiculously easy Lab hold then we could be seeing a change.
It's not Bootle. It contains some bits of Conservative small town and village Cheshire. And Runcorn isn't an economic basket case. Small town and working class, but we've seen Labour struggle in such territory elsewhere in the North and Midlands. But it's outer Liverpool with a lot of the mindset we infer from that. My view is that it's an 80% chance of a Lab hold.
I mean, I have mentioned this one before, but I think asking Harold Shipman, who taught a class I attended for a while, how his day has gone, and receiving the reply that an old lady had 'died on him', then having quite an earnest conversation on how you dealt with that kind of thing, is sort of seared on my memory.
It’s a daily occurrence, whether or not the British PM is there.
If I were a country trying to increase the sense of urgency for weapons and supplies, bigging up a daily attack when the PM of a donor country is visiting might be a smart move.
A friend’s father once told Princess Anne to ‘fuck off out of here’.
He didn’t realise it was her, she had some unruly dogs attacking other dogs/harassing other animals in the countryside somewhere, one of the dogs was his so he was quite het up.
But the question we all need to know is whether Princess Anne did indeed "fuck off" ?
She did.
I once saw Princess Anne in a minibus near Buckingham Palace.
Sat a few seats away from Farage on a train from London Victoria. He alighted at Dulwich West, presumably to visit his old school.
My dad, in his British Rail days, escorted Harold Wilson on a trip from London to Liverpool. I, by contrast, have met Lloyd Russell-Moyle.
I saw Harold Wilson in the Scilly Isles when I was a kid and he was the Prime Minister. He and his wife were walking their dog on the beach being largely left alone apart from a few people who cordially said hello and were given an equally cordial hello back. No police, no security, just the PM, his wife and the dog. I was 11, playing football on the sand and just blithely assumed this is the kind of thing that happens. A very different world.
I saw David Cameron in a wetsuit on a beach in Cornwall. I didn't interact with him, but he seemed happy and relaxed pootling in the shallows like any other holidaymaker. I think this was 2017. Presumably someone was discreetly keeping an eye.
If it's not a ridiculously easy Lab hold then we could be seeing a change.
It's not Bootle. It contains some bits of Conservative small town and village Cheshire. And Runcorn isn't an economic basket case. Small town and working class, but we've seen Labour struggle in such territory elsewhere in the North and Midlands. But it's outer Liverpool with a lot of the mindset we infer from that. My view is that it's an 80% chance of a Lab hold.
I can't see it. In this case unless Reform pick a complete nut job this will be a Reform gain. Unwinnable for the Conservatives I agree
If it's not a ridiculously easy Lab hold then we could be seeing a change.
It's not Bootle. It contains some bits of Conservative small town and village Cheshire. And Runcorn isn't an economic basket case. Small town and working class, but we've seen Labour struggle in such territory elsewhere in the North and Midlands. But it's outer Liverpool with a lot of the mindset we infer from that. My view is that it's an 80% chance of a Lab hold.
The discovery that Frodsham has a night-time economy, still seething at 2am, has radically altered my perception of Cheshire life.
As the gaze horror draws - maybe - to a close, for now, I wonder what the Hamas leaders think about their October attack right now
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
Carbon Capture, now Cold Fusion, jeez these guys truly are gullible. Oh but cold fusion is just around the corner, yeah, the same corner it was just around 40 years ago, the corner between reality and imagination.
Who's the most "famous" person you've met? Question of the day on PB.
I've met six British Prime Ministers.
Feck, did you work in the Cabinet Office?
I’ll go with Murray Walker as the best person I’ve ever met, although I did once pass HM QEII in crossing escalators at Royal Ascot where I was working. I met Trevor McDonald as well.
Although I did like the previous suggestion of best place you’ve ever been, which for me is the control tower at Heathrow c.2002, watched Concorde take off.
(I was applying for ATC school, and a friend of my father was a watch manager there).
Not only that but rejoining terms would be fairly dtaconian and then the constant interference in day to day life which we have all forgotten would be back and start to grate again.
It's why I maintain that the polls on rejoining will shift massively when the costs are placed in front of the electorate.
My favourite example of this was that detailed polling by the Blair think tank which showed that people generally wanted a closer relationship with the EU, but also showed that even Remainers wanted restrictions on free movement*, which of course the EU has already ruled out as the four freedoms are considered to be inviolable.
I suspect that this is at the heart of why Labour do not want to get into such debate, as they already know that what people might stomach isn't deliverable.
* This would even make a halfway house like EFTA a real challenge to achieve.
The reality is that free movement, by making it easy to come and go and come back again and go again, provided labour markets with needed people while leading to lower long-term migration to the UK than the Conservatives' post-Brexit approach, where anyone who got a visa to come into the country then very much wants to make that permanent.
Yep. I'm afraid as time passes Brexit looks more and more like not so much a mistake as an act of vandalism against our own property. I've moved on, you have to, but it still irks. WTF were we thinking? What on earth was going on in that little head of ours?
Free movement depressed wages. Granted, it's a better solution than bringing in half the Middle East. But the fact that the Tory response to Brexit was terrible and protected capital over labour AS WELL AS filling the country up with more people than we can handle doesn't mean that the previous solution was a good one.
I'll finish with a periodic confirmation that my wavering should-we-shouldn't-we-probably-we-should has become much more ironclad certain over time. Brexit was, for me, the right decision, and I would vote for it again.
Like my granddad you are. The more you argued with him the more he would dig in. You can always tell a Yorkshireman - but you can't tell him much.
"I dare say" ... this was his catchphrase when under the rhetorical cosh.
I just feel the need when Remainers trot out the suggestion that the desire for Brexit was a flash in the pan to confirm that in my case, it isn't.
I've been Brexity since long before it was unfashionable.
I overheard Jon Gaunt talking about a plan to leave the EU years before the referendum at Coventry Rugby club.
A revealing interview (20 minutes) with Andrew Hale, a Senior Policy Analyst from the Heritage Foundation on GB News. It is about UK relations with a Trump administration.
Jeez, that's worrying. Trump is a thin-skinned king with a long memory and things like sending activists to help Kamala will be punished in a painful manner. So they are going to threaten the UK with tariffs and if profound apologies and policy changes do not result, they will turn the screws on us.
You would have thought this might have occurred to Starmer and Labour before they did what they did. “What happens if Harris LOSES and we are left with a vengeful President Trump? Is it worth the potential grief for the UK, maybe we should hang back and not send 100 activists to help the Dems? It won’t make any difference to her chances either way”
They are clueless flailing childish idiots. We are governed, without exaggeration, by morons who can’t think more than 10 minutes ahead
Utter morons and when labour complain about Musk interefering in UK politics this gets thrown back at them,.
At least people from the other parties who went over to campaign for the Hapless Harris, like Robert Buckland former Tory Minister, went as individuals not through an organised group.
Combining anti-Americanism with the belief that we are participants in American politics is a dangerous mix.
Starmer doesn't think of consequences. He is too stupid. Will his MPs turn on him ? Probably not. The protection against malevolent government will not work as they know they won't be re-elected so there is no sting there.
As the gaze horror draws - maybe - to a close, for now, I wonder what the Hamas leaders think about their October attack right now
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
I was talking about this last night. Arguably the least successful terrorist attack ever. I'd be interested in any other contenders.
As the gaze horror draws - maybe - to a close, for now, I wonder what the Hamas leaders think about their October attack right now
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
Plenty see it all as a huge strategic (if not tactical) victory for Hamas. With enough resources left over to subdue whatever number of Gaza citizens who dislike them.
Taking hostages works. Plus their information campaign which saw the MSM push direct-from-Hamas lines to take was a masterclass of the genre. Andrew Fox is very good on this.
I happen to think that having the shit bombed out of them will make those citizens less likely to endorse the next attack. For there will without doubt be another October 7th, if not for some short while.
If it's not a ridiculously easy Lab hold then we could be seeing a change.
It's not Bootle. It contains some bits of Conservative small town and village Cheshire. And Runcorn isn't an economic basket case. Small town and working class, but we've seen Labour struggle in such territory elsewhere in the North and Midlands. But it's outer Liverpool with a lot of the mindset we infer from that. My view is that it's an 80% chance of a Lab hold.
I can't see it. In this case unless Reform pick a complete nut job this will be a Reform gain. Unwinnable for the Conservatives I agree
Interesting! I'm not proposing a bet but we can come back to this after the BE and see who was right.
Oh and I ran past Frank Bruno during the London Marathon one year. I wondered what on earth was the enormous moving mountain in front of me and it was he.
As the gaze horror draws - maybe - to a close, for now, I wonder what the Hamas leaders think about their October attack right now
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
I was talking about this last night. Arguably the least successful terrorist attack ever. I'd be interested in any other contenders.
It has given Hamas a grievance for a generation at least so in the sense of keeping the 'donations' coming I'm sure it will turn out to be very successful.
[Not for anyone who has to actually live in Gaza though.]
Susan Jameson, actress of New Tricks fame (played someones' wife) once admired a precociously good picture I did of a gorilla when I was 6.
Isn't she married to Likely Lads actor Jimmy Bolam (who was also in New Tricks) in real life but the Alun Armstrong character in the show? The names of the characters in the original New Tricks series were Halford, Lane and Standing, so named after the Baggies's Hawthorns stand on Halfords Lane, West Bromwich. Hence Halford(s) Lane Stand(ing).
Bolam and Jameson met when they starred in When the Boat Comes In. Susan Jameson 's sister Louise was for a long while Bergerac 's girlfriend in the series. John Nettles's foot have had a mention earlier. It's a small world.
As the gaze horror draws - maybe - to a close, for now, I wonder what the Hamas leaders think about their October attack right now
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
I was talking about this last night. Arguably the least successful terrorist attack ever. I'd be interested in any other contenders.
It has given Hamas a grievance for a generation at least so in the sense of keeping the 'donations' coming I'm sure it will turn out to be very successful.
You make an interesting point. Hamas isn't there for Palestinians, it's there for Hamas. Though I lose count - has the Hamas leadership been killed like the Hezbollah one?
dixiedean asked: "So. Should Biden or Trump be blamed for this non ceasefire?"
Yes. (Just as both should be blamed for the botched Afghanistan withdrawal. Trump negotiated a surrender to the Taliban; Biden mishandled the actual surrender.)
As the gaze horror draws - maybe - to a close, for now, I wonder what the Hamas leaders think about their October attack right now
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
I was talking about this last night. Arguably the least successful terrorist attack ever. I'd be interested in any other contenders.
It has given Hamas a grievance for a generation at least so in the sense of keeping the 'donations' coming I'm sure it will turn out to be very successful.
You make an interesting point. Hamas isn't there for Palestinians, it's there for Hamas. Though I lose count - has the Hamas leadership been killed like the Hezbollah one?
Plenty of protests against the deal in ‘Palestine’ too.
As the gaze horror draws - maybe - to a close, for now, I wonder what the Hamas leaders think about their October attack right now
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
I was talking about this last night. Arguably the least successful terrorist attack ever. I'd be interested in any other contenders.
It has given Hamas a grievance for a generation at least so in the sense of keeping the 'donations' coming I'm sure it will turn out to be very successful.
You make an interesting point. Hamas isn't there for Palestinians, it's there for Hamas. Though I lose count - has the Hamas leadership been killed like the Hezbollah one?
Quite a few Hamas leaders were indeed removed permanently.
Perhaps they didn't quite plan for that, although it isn't an entirely new phenomenon. Of course there will be more along soon.
Not a leading politician but back in the late 1990s when all things were possible and lunchtime drinking turning to all afternoon drinking was part of my professional life, me and a few colleagues were into a session at El Vinos on Fleet Street. We spotted ex-Tory MP Jerry Hayes sitting with a few people and invited him to join us for a drink. Which he did. Then another and another and another. We ended up at closing time in a big vault of a place round the back of Ludgate Hill with a packed crowd, including Jerry himself, singing "Jerry Hayes, Oh Jerry Hayes" to the tune of the Glitter Band's Rock n' Roll. It was a hell of an evening. He was a brilliant sport. Entirely indiscreet.
Taylor Swift (with her management sadly), the King was next most famous, dinner with John Major, Lunch with Michael Howard, school with Rishi, Nige Farage, loads of sports people such as Greavsie, Ian St John, lots of more recent footballers cricketers and rugby players, lots of people from bands in the 90s and actors (dinner with jasper carrot was a strange treat) Patsy Kensit but my favourite of all of them was Page 3’s Kathy Lloyd.
As the gaze horror draws - maybe - to a close, for now, I wonder what the Hamas leaders think about their October attack right now
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
I was talking about this last night. Arguably the least successful terrorist attack ever. I'd be interested in any other contenders.
It has given Hamas a grievance for a generation at least so in the sense of keeping the 'donations' coming I'm sure it will turn out to be very successful.
You make an interesting point. Hamas isn't there for Palestinians, it's there for Hamas. Though I lose count - has the Hamas leadership been killed like the Hezbollah one?
Quite a few Hamas leaders were indeed removed permanently.
Perhaps they didn't quite plan for that, although it isn't an entirely new phenomenon. Of course there will be more along soon.
In that case I'd stick with my original point. If you are a senior Hamas bod, and you decide to kidnap a load of Israelis, and it results in your assassination, then it was a poor outcome. We can't be saying 'actually the loyalty of Hamas isn't to Palestinians it's to Hamas' without also entertaining the concept of 'actually the loyalty of senior Hamas bods isn't to Hamas it's to senior Hamas bods'.
As the gaze horror draws - maybe - to a close, for now, I wonder what the Hamas leaders think about their October attack right now
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
I was talking about this last night. Arguably the least successful terrorist attack ever. I'd be interested in any other contenders.
It has given Hamas a grievance for a generation at least so in the sense of keeping the 'donations' coming I'm sure it will turn out to be very successful.
You make an interesting point. Hamas isn't there for Palestinians, it's there for Hamas. Though I lose count - has the Hamas leadership been killed like the Hezbollah one?
Quite a few Hamas leaders were indeed removed permanently.
Perhaps they didn't quite plan for that, although it isn't an entirely new phenomenon. Of course there will be more along soon.
In that case I'd stick with my original point. If you are a senior Hamas bod, and you decide to kidnap a load of Israelis, and it results in your assassination, then it was a poor outcome. We can't be saying 'actually the loyalty of Hamas isn't to Palestinians it's to Hamas' without also entertaining the concept of 'actually the loyalty of senior Hamas bods isn't to Hamas it's to senior Hamas bods'.
As with any political effort the cause will outlive the individuals. Hamas is now seen as a legitimate representative of the Gazans and Israel vilified for decades. It's all about the information war. Which many believe they won conclusively.
‘I’ve earned £575 in six months’: The ex-Tory MPs who can’t get a job The sudden shift into unemployment after an election defeat is brutal – and so is finding work when you were a Conservative parliamentarian
Taylor Swift (with her management sadly), the King was next most famous, dinner with John Major, Lunch with Michael Howard, school with Rishi, Nige Farage, loads of sports people such as Greavsie, Ian St John, lots of more recent footballers cricketers and rugby players, lots of people from bands in the 90s and actors (dinner with jasper carrot was a strange treat) Patsy Kensit but my favourite of all of them was Page 3’s Kathy Lloyd.
Never name-drop! - as I said to Billy Bragg, Zakir Hussain, Chris Patten and Oskar Lafontaine.
I once slept on a purple carpet that had belonged to Elton John.
As the gaze horror draws - maybe - to a close, for now, I wonder what the Hamas leaders think about their October attack right now
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
I was talking about this last night. Arguably the least successful terrorist attack ever. I'd be interested in any other contenders.
It’s definitely up there. I do not believe a single Hamas strategic goal has been scored, and they’ve suffered innumerable major setbacks (quite apart from the appalling pain endured by the Palestinian people)
My guess is that they hoped to inflict such a terrible cruelty on Israel that Israel would overreact, inflict even greater horrors on Gaza, and that this would unite the Arab and Muslim world which would finally turn on Israel
Well, they got the first bit - a horrific attack on Israel - they got the second bit - terrifying Israeli revenge - but the crucial third step? No. Nothing like it. All gong and no dinner. Instead Israel has methodically destroyed many of its enemies, especially Hezbollah, and has now seized chunks of Syria. And Iran has been humiliated
Also, Israel is emboldened and will now, I suspect, take out the Hamas leadership relentlessly around the world
The October attack was a catastrophic blunder by Hamas, and a disaster on a par with the Nakba for the Palestinian people
I have just taken an order to produce an item for the prime minister of Mongolia. That's a first. High Commissioner was the previous most senior rank.
If it's artisanal flint dildos I think you may have competition.
Due to having fessed up to suffering from excessive boredom during Lockdown, PB's resident flint-knapper @Leon was commissioned by CCHQ to knap the perfect sculpture of Boris Johnson! Finally able to take a break from knapping strangely shaped sex-toys, he accepted the work in a heartbeat, and got to sculpting the same day. Arduous work, but he felt that, over the course of several weeks of almost continuous knapping, that he got it almost completely spot on with just a little bit more required.
However, @Leon had found that he had knapped so meticulously that his hands were thoroughly knackered and sore. He wondered about taking some time off in order to finish off his masterpiece at a later date. Boris's office phoned him back reasonably promptly, but to @Leon's horror, he was told in no uncertain terms that he would lose his fee if he stopped work!
As the gaze horror draws - maybe - to a close, for now, I wonder what the Hamas leaders think about their October attack right now
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
I was talking about this last night. Arguably the least successful terrorist attack ever. I'd be interested in any other contenders.
As the gaze horror draws - maybe - to a close, for now, I wonder what the Hamas leaders think about their October attack right now
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
I was talking about this last night. Arguably the least successful terrorist attack ever. I'd be interested in any other contenders.
It’s definitely up there. I do not believe a single Hamas strategic goal has been scored, and they’ve suffered innumerable major setbacks (quite apart from the appalling pain inflicted on the Palestinian people)
My guess is that they hoped to inflict such a terrible cruelty on Israel that Israel would overreact, inflict even greater horrors on Gaza, and that this would unite the Arab and Muslim world which would finally turn on Israel
Well, they got the first bit - a horrific attack on Israel - they got the second bit - terrifying Israeli revenge - but the crucial third step? No. Nothing like it. All gong and no dinner. Instead Israel has methodically destroyed many of its enemies, especially Hezbollah, and has now seized chunks of Syria. And Iran has been humiliated
Also, Israel is emboldened and will now, I suspect, take out the Hamas leadership relentlessly around the world
The October attack was a catastrophic blunder by Hamas, and a disaster on a par with the Nakba for the Palestinian people
Nope. You completely misunderstand the dynamic.
Take a look at most sensible commentators, try @Mr_Andrew_Fox on X.
Susan Jameson, actress of New Tricks fame (played someones' wife) once admired a precociously good picture I did of a gorilla when I was 6.
Isn't she married to Likely Lads actor Jimmy Bolam (who was also in New Tricks) in real life but the Alun Armstrong character in the show? The names of the characters in the original New Tricks series were Halford, Lane and Standing, so named after the Baggies's Hawthorns stand on Halfords Lane, West Bromwich. Hence Halford(s) Lane Stand(ing).
Bolam and Jameson met when they starred in When the Boat Comes In. Susan Jameson 's sister Louise was for a long while Bergerac 's girlfriend in the series. John Nettles's foot have had a mention earlier. It's a small world.
Never knew they were sisters, I presume they are not related to famous American actress Jenna Jameson who also appeared at some ECW wrestling events but not in her acting capacity. Of course Louise Jameson was famous for her role in Dr Who as Leela and in Tenko.
I know Susan Jameson was from Barnt Green, an incredibly posh part of Worcester where Big Ron "Mr Bojangles" Atkinson resided for many years.
As the gaze horror draws - maybe - to a close, for now, I wonder what the Hamas leaders think about their October attack right now
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
They killed more than a thousand Jews in a single day. Regardless of what followed it's hard not to think that they will always regard that as a great victory to be celebrated.
They've also seen Israel become increasingly isolated on the international stage as the months of conflict dragged on. They are poised to force Israel to accept a ceasefire before being destroyed and to negotiate on equal terms, while it now looks unlikely that they will be excluded from governance of Gaza when reconstruction begins. They have a basis for ending the blockade of Gaza that had been continuing indefinitely.
I don't think they will regret the choices they made, alas. Those of them that are still alive to reflect on them.
‘I’ve earned £575 in six months’: The ex-Tory MPs who can’t get a job The sudden shift into unemployment after an election defeat is brutal – and so is finding work when you were a Conservative parliamentarian
As the gaze horror draws - maybe - to a close, for now, I wonder what the Hamas leaders think about their October attack right now
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
I was talking about this last night. Arguably the least successful terrorist attack ever. I'd be interested in any other contenders.
Interesting question. I hate everything Hamas and the Israeli government have done. But if you follow the logic of terror, I'm not sure if Netanyahu hasn't put Israel into a strategically weaker position.
The status quo ante was Israel could dominate Palestinians in a systematic way at little cost to their superior lifestyle. The occasional random attack could be clobbered with overwhelming force. Now Israel is pretty much in permanent war with all the debilitating effects on society entailed.
As the gaze horror draws - maybe - to a close, for now, I wonder what the Hamas leaders think about their October attack right now
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
I was talking about this last night. Arguably the least successful terrorist attack ever. I'd be interested in any other contenders.
It’s definitely up there. I do not believe a single Hamas strategic goal has been scored, and they’ve suffered innumerable major setbacks (quite apart from the appalling pain inflicted on the Palestinian people)
My guess is that they hoped to inflict such a terrible cruelty on Israel that Israel would overreact, inflict even greater horrors on Gaza, and that this would unite the Arab and Muslim world which would finally turn on Israel
Well, they got the first bit - a horrific attack on Israel - they got the second bit - terrifying Israeli revenge - but the crucial third step? No. Nothing like it. All gong and no dinner. Instead Israel has methodically destroyed many of its enemies, especially Hezbollah, and has now seized chunks of Syria. And Iran has been humiliated
Also, Israel is emboldened and will now, I suspect, take out the Hamas leadership relentlessly around the world The October attack was a catastrophic blunder by Hamas, and a disaster on a par with the Nakba for the Palestinian people
Nope. You completely misunderstand the dynamic.
Take a look at most sensible commentators, try @Mr_Andrew_Fox on X.
It’s utter nonsense
“We won the propaganda war” - great, what does that mean, in reality? Compared to actual reality?
Gaza is in hideous ruins, and might never recover. 1.9 million Gazans are essentially homeless. Basically the entire “nation”. The West Bank is de facto annexed by Israel, now. Tens of thousands of Palestinians have been blown to bits. But it’s all worth it because of a “propaganda victory” and a rise in anti Semitism around the world?
Absurd. This is a catastrophe for the ages, there is no way this is what Hamas intended at the start, unless they are actual lunatics. Sir Keir Starmer himself could not have achieved a worse geopolitical result
‘I’ve earned £575 in six months’: The ex-Tory MPs who can’t get a job The sudden shift into unemployment after an election defeat is brutal – and so is finding work when you were a Conservative parliamentarian
What would a Tory minister tell someone else struggling to get a job after six months? Take any job, serving in McDonalds, working in a care home, taxi driver, anything is better than welfare and complaining about your misfortune.
Why is it different when the advice is for themselves I wonder....
Rachel from Accounts hits the back of the net. She is Alexander Isak
With a per capita decline?
Population is growing more than 0.1% so per capita that is recessionary.
Only because of immigration, our birthrate is well below replacement level.
Cut immigration further and per capita it will be growing too
It doesn't work that way, cut immigration and you cut all the production and demand that those migrants do.
So we'd probably be officially in recession were it not for migration, but evading a recession because of a per capita decline isn't replacing the fact that it's a decline either way.
If you only focused on job shortages there really is nobody in the UK with the skills to do being taken by immigrants the population would still be falling and the economy still growing
As the gaze horror draws - maybe - to a close, for now, I wonder what the Hamas leaders think about their October attack right now
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
I was talking about this last night. Arguably the least successful terrorist attack ever. I'd be interested in any other contenders.
It’s definitely up there. I do not believe a single Hamas strategic goal has been scored, and they’ve suffered innumerable major setbacks (quite apart from the appalling pain inflicted on the Palestinian people)
My guess is that they hoped to inflict such a terrible cruelty on Israel that Israel would overreact, inflict even greater horrors on Gaza, and that this would unite the Arab and Muslim world which would finally turn on Israel
Well, they got the first bit - a horrific attack on Israel - they got the second bit - terrifying Israeli revenge - but the crucial third step? No. Nothing like it. All gong and no dinner. Instead Israel has methodically destroyed many of its enemies, especially Hezbollah, and has now seized chunks of Syria. And Iran has been humiliated
Also, Israel is emboldened and will now, I suspect, take out the Hamas leadership relentlessly around the world The October attack was a catastrophic blunder by Hamas, and a disaster on a par with the Nakba for the Palestinian people
Nope. You completely misunderstand the dynamic.
Take a look at most sensible commentators, try @Mr_Andrew_Fox on X.
It’s utter nonsense
“We won the propaganda war” - great, what does that mean, in reality? Compared to actual reality?
Gaza is in hideous ruins, and might never recover. 1.9 million Gazans are essentially homeless. Basically the entire “nation”. The West Bank is de facto annexed by Israel, now. Tens of thousands of Palestinians have been blown to bits. But it’s all worth it because of a “propaganda victory” and a rise in anti Semitism around the world?
Absurd. This is a catastrophe for the ages, there is no way this is what Hamas intended at the start, unless they are actual lunatics. Sir Keir Starmer himself could not have achieved a worse geopolitical result
And I don't think they did win the propaganda war. Various left wingers in the west sided with them. But I think they were possibly surprised by the extent to which people who actually make decisions (i.e. governments in the west and in the Arab world) turned against them. They had the somewhat half-hearted support of Iran and ... that was it.
As the gaze horror draws - maybe - to a close, for now, I wonder what the Hamas leaders think about their October attack right now
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
They killed more than a thousand Jews in a single day. Regardless of what followed it's hard not to think that they will always regard that as a great victory to be celebrated.
They've also seen Israel become increasingly isolated on the international stage as the months of conflict dragged on. They are poised to force Israel to accept a ceasefire before being destroyed and to negotiate on equal terms, while it now looks unlikely that they will be excluded from governance of Gaza when reconstruction begins. They have a basis for ending the blockade of Gaza that had been continuing indefinitely.
I don't think they will regret the choices they made, alas. Those of them that are still alive to reflect on them.
Who's the most "famous" person you've met? Question of the day on PB.
I've met six British Prime Ministers.
Feck, did you work in the Cabinet Office?
I’ll go with Murray Walker as the best person I’ve ever met, although I did once pass HM QEII in crossing escalators at Royal Ascot where I was working. I met Trevor McDonald as well.
Although I did like the previous suggestion of best place you’ve ever been, which for me is the control tower at Heathrow c.2002, watched Concorde take off.
(I was applying for ATC school, and a friend of my father was a watch manager there).
Maybe the old and much missed Trent Bridge scoreboard for me.
‘I’ve earned £575 in six months’: The ex-Tory MPs who can’t get a job The sudden shift into unemployment after an election defeat is brutal – and so is finding work when you were a Conservative parliamentarian
Comments
Russian drone shot down near presidential palace during Starmer's Ukraine visit
https://news.sky.com/story/russian-drone-shot-down-near-presidential-palace-during-starmers-ukraine-visit-13290189
1 - He lives in an obscure bit of Derbyshire where hedgerows may be low.
2 - He was writing for the Spectator at the time, so he may have picked up the assumption about Penny Farthings by osmosis.
(*) just kidding!
Long way to go but Kemi is the only sensible choice for the conservatives and to lead them into the next GE
I like the way she is wanting to offer young people a better future
I once watched Shoaib Akhtar play in a village cricket match.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/shoaib-stars-for-berkswell-255707
I have just taken an order to produce an item for the prime minister of Mongolia. That's a first. High Commissioner was the previous most senior rank.
If I list them as Avuncular, Charming, Intelligent, Smarmy, Needy and Tetchy you should be able to figure out who they all are.
Good idea or not?
Since they waded in Jewish blood and raped Jewish girls they’ve seen Israel kills tens of thousands of Gazans, destroy much of Gaza, and kill lots of Hamas fighters. They’ve also seen their allies hezbollah utterly humiliated (and eviscerated) to the extent they may never recover. And their ultimate benefactor Iran is cowed and isolated in a way they’re not known for many years
What’s that. A “result”? What would a “terrible terrible defeat” look like, if not this?
I’ll go with Murray Walker as the best person I’ve ever met, although I did once pass HM QEII in crossing escalators at Royal Ascot where I was working. I met Trevor McDonald as well.
Although I did like the previous suggestion of best place you’ve ever been, which for me is the control tower at Heathrow c.2002, watched Concorde take off.
(I was applying for ATC school, and a friend of my father was a watch manager there).
Prolific actress. Did alot of great TV.
Boycott comes in, poke me in the stomach, says "mind out fat lad" and laughs. I moved out the way. What a legend.
Tangentially related, Ronnie O'Sullivan is an astonishingly quick runner.
Taking hostages works. Plus their information campaign which saw the MSM push direct-from-Hamas lines to take was a masterclass of the genre. Andrew Fox is very good on this.
I happen to think that having the shit bombed out of them will make those citizens less likely to endorse the next attack. For there will without doubt be another October 7th, if not for some short while.
[Not for anyone who has to actually live in Gaza though.]
Bolam and Jameson met when they starred in When the Boat Comes In. Susan Jameson 's sister Louise was for a long while Bergerac 's girlfriend in the series. John Nettles's foot have had a mention earlier. It's a small world.
Though I lose count - has the Hamas leadership been killed like the Hezbollah one?
Charming - Blair
Intelligent - Brown
Smarmy - Cameron
Needy - May
Tetchy - Boris
?
"So. Should Biden or Trump be blamed for this non ceasefire?"
Yes. (Just as both should be blamed for the botched Afghanistan withdrawal. Trump negotiated a surrender to the Taliban; Biden mishandled the actual surrender.)
https://x.com/koshercockney/status/1879630557107421493
How can they possibly have a deal that doesn’t involve killing all the Jews?
I shook his hand while overtaking him in a half-marathon.
Perhaps they didn't quite plan for that, although it isn't an entirely new phenomenon. Of course there will be more along soon.
Taylor Swift (with her management sadly), the King was next most famous, dinner with John Major, Lunch with Michael Howard, school with Rishi, Nige Farage, loads of sports people such as Greavsie, Ian St John, lots of more recent footballers cricketers and rugby players, lots of people from bands in the 90s and actors (dinner with jasper carrot was a strange treat) Patsy Kensit but my favourite of all of them was Page 3’s Kathy Lloyd.
Needy for Boris?
The sudden shift into unemployment after an election defeat is brutal – and so is finding work when you were a Conservative parliamentarian
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/16/ex-tory-mp-unemployed-political-views/
I once slept on a purple carpet that had belonged to Elton John.
My guess is that they hoped to inflict such a terrible cruelty on Israel that Israel would overreact, inflict even greater horrors on Gaza, and that this would unite the Arab and Muslim world which would finally turn on Israel
Well, they got the first bit - a horrific attack on Israel - they got the second bit - terrifying Israeli revenge - but the crucial third step? No. Nothing like it. All gong and no dinner. Instead Israel has methodically destroyed many of its enemies, especially Hezbollah, and has now seized chunks of Syria. And Iran has been humiliated
Also, Israel is emboldened and will now, I suspect, take out the Hamas leadership relentlessly around the world
The October attack was a catastrophic blunder by Hamas, and a disaster on a par with the Nakba for the Palestinian people
However, @Leon had found that he had knapped so meticulously that his hands were thoroughly knackered and sore. He wondered about taking some time off in order to finish off his masterpiece at a later date. Boris's office phoned him back reasonably promptly, but to @Leon's horror, he was told in no uncertain terms that he would lose his fee if he stopped work!
"Why?" asked @Leon on the phone incredulously.
"Simple!" Boris's underling replied. "You're not entitled to any..." He paused for effect. "...Statue-Tory Sick Pay!"
I thank you!
Take a look at most sensible commentators, try @Mr_Andrew_Fox on X.
I know Susan Jameson was from Barnt Green, an incredibly posh part of Worcester where Big Ron "Mr Bojangles" Atkinson resided for many years.
Charming - Blair
Intelligent - Starmer
Smarmy - Cameron
Needy - Sunak
Tetchy - Major
They've also seen Israel become increasingly isolated on the international stage as the months of conflict dragged on. They are poised to force Israel to accept a ceasefire before being destroyed and to negotiate on equal terms, while it now looks unlikely that they will be excluded from governance of Gaza when reconstruction begins. They have a basis for ending the blockade of Gaza that had been continuing indefinitely.
I don't think they will regret the choices they made, alas. Those of them that are still alive to reflect on them.
The status quo ante was Israel could dominate Palestinians in a systematic way at little cost to their superior lifestyle. The occasional random attack could be clobbered with overwhelming force. Now Israel is pretty much in permanent war with all the debilitating effects on society entailed.
And therefore both will regard the outcome of the "war" as a win.
It’s utter nonsense
“We won the propaganda war” - great, what does that mean, in reality? Compared to actual reality?
Gaza is in hideous ruins, and might never recover. 1.9 million Gazans are essentially homeless. Basically the entire “nation”. The West Bank is de facto annexed by Israel, now. Tens of thousands of Palestinians have been blown to bits. But it’s all worth it because of a “propaganda victory” and a rise in anti Semitism around the world?
Absurd. This is a catastrophe for the ages, there is no way this is what Hamas intended at the start, unless they are actual lunatics. Sir Keir Starmer himself could not have achieved a worse geopolitical result
Why is it different when the advice is for themselves I wonder....
NEW THREAD
Brown - Tetchy
Cameron - Smarmy
May - Charming
Boris - Avuncular
Truss - Needy
Sunak - Intelligent
If you are an older person that leaves us with
Callaghan - Avuncular
Thatcher - Intelligent
Major - Needy
Blair - Charming
Brown - Tetchy
Cameron - Smarmy