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The state of it – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,254
edited January 16 in General
The state of it – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906
    Good morning all.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906
    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    Economic growth looking about as good as New Glenn’s first stage right now.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,888
    I'd actually say that those figures are quite good for the Conservatives six months into a new Labour government. Labour have had very little time to muck things up, compared to the Conservative's fifteen years, yet either half blame Labour or both equally.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617
    Sandpit said:

    Economic growth looking about as good as New Glenn’s first stage right now.

    Are the numbers out ?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Economic growth looking about as good as New Glenn’s first stage right now.

    Are the numbers out ?
    The UK economy grew for the first time in three months, driven in part by a boost in trade for pubs and restaurants.

    Official figures showed an expansion 0.1% after the economy shrank in each of the two previous months.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8r5jkv5g5po
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617
    Cool inflation + poor growth = Maybe...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,605
    edited January 16
    Rachel from Accounts hits the back of the net. She is Alexander Isak
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,382

    I'd actually say that those figures are quite good for the Conservatives six months into a new Labour government. Labour have had very little time to muck things up, compared to the Conservative's fifteen years, yet either half blame Labour or both equally.

    I'd agree with that.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,315
    edited January 16

    Rachel from Accounts hits the back of the net. She is Alexander Isak

    Form is temporary, class is permanent.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,052
    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    The mea culpa is vital. Sunak started it the day after the election but it’s been a wasted six months for the Conservatives.

    Badenoch has to admit mistakes were made and her part in them as a big part of wiping the slate clean with the public.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,835
    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about […] Brexit.

    Sorted.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,203

    I'd actually say that those figures are quite good for the Conservatives six months into a new Labour government. Labour have had very little time to muck things up, compared to the Conservative's fifteen years, yet either half blame Labour or both equally.

    I agree. To have a majority thinking that Labour are either completely or equally implicated in the economic mess is quite an achievement for Starmer and Reeves. And I'd say that's pretty fertile ground for the Tories.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 669

    I'd actually say that those figures are quite good for the Conservatives six months into a new Labour government. Labour have had very little time to muck things up, compared to the Conservative's fifteen years, yet either half blame Labour or both equally.

    It was only 14 years thankfully, another year and they might have got waiting lists into 8 figures.
    I agree with you, 6 months in you're only just starting to implement policies, it'll take 2-3 years before they have any real effect.
    That's why the coalition govt isn't seen as bad as it actually was, for at least the first 2-3 years public services were running on the momentum from the labour govt.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about […] Brexit.

    Sorted.

    That is indeed the implication.
    As a large majority now think it's a shitshow, it's a necessary admission, I think. And might provide some distance from Reform (though there are obvious ripostes Farage can make).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906
    Perhaps TSE could file an amicus brief ?

    Justice Alito Asks If You Can Read Pornhub for the Articles
    https://www.thecut.com/article/justice-samuel-alito-pornhub-essays.html
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    That's fine but when she was part of that govt she owned those mistakes as well.

    She was hardly an effective Minister in any of her portfolios either.

    The Tories will come to rue electing her. She is the Tories Ed Miliband.

    I wonder if we will get the Kemi Stone.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,888
    Dopermean said:

    I'd actually say that those figures are quite good for the Conservatives six months into a new Labour government. Labour have had very little time to muck things up, compared to the Conservative's fifteen years, yet either half blame Labour or both equally.

    It was only 14 years thankfully, another year and they might have got waiting lists into 8 figures.
    I agree with you, 6 months in you're only just starting to implement policies, it'll take 2-3 years before they have any real effect.
    That's why the coalition govt isn't seen as bad as it actually was, for at least the first 2-3 years public services were running on the momentum from the labour govt.
    The momentum from the Labour government in 2010 was pretty much downwards IMV... ;)

    The coalition was a rare moment of competent government.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    Israel's war cabinet to meet to approve ceasefire deal.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c3rwqpj70ert
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935
    Re-posting this from the end of the last thread so more people see it, Sam Harris on Elon Musk and how they fell out over a bet: https://samharris.substack.com/p/the-trouble-with-elon First posted by rcs1000.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906
    stodge said:

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    The mea culpa is vital. Sunak started it the day after the election but it’s been a wasted six months for the Conservatives.

    Badenoch has to admit mistakes were made and her part in them as a big part of wiping the slate clean with the public.
    It's a necessary first step.
    I'm not sure it's much more than that - though it is a big first step.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,894
    edited January 16
    Growth of 0.1% could easily be a contraction of 0.1% or worse after revisions.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about […] Brexit.

    Sorted.

    Great, just what the board needs. Another debate about fucking Brexit. We haven't had one for 24 hours.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    stodge said:

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    The mea culpa is vital. Sunak started it the day after the election but it’s been a wasted six months for the Conservatives.

    Badenoch has to admit mistakes were made and her part in them as a big part of wiping the slate clean with the public.
    Yes, she should, but will she and would the public forgive a sinner repenting and if we were to vote her back into office how do we know she would not simply revert to type.

    Quite frankly she's had her chance. She fucked it big style. Time to get someone untainted by the last 14 years in govt.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,505

    Growth of 0.1% could easily be a contraction of 0.1% or worse after revisions.

    Or growth of 0.2%. GDP estimates go all over the place when they’re revised but in recent years they’ve tended to go up.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    Nigelb said:

    Perhaps TSE could file an amicus brief ?

    Justice Alito Asks If You Can Read Pornhub for the Articles
    https://www.thecut.com/article/justice-samuel-alito-pornhub-essays.html

    The below the line comments are probably better informed and more thoughtful than those on The Guardian.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,204
    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    That was the dire David Cameron, five Prime Ministers ago. It also didn't stop them winning triumphantly in 2019 or leading in the polls for the first half of that Parliament, so I'm not sure how beneficial it will be.

    Far better to admit to mistakes on mattes of current salience, such as uncontrolled immigration, statist economic policies and Nut Zero lunacy. People might actually care.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,365
    Interesting that the Mail and Express both lead on the crisis in the NHS. Caused by 14 years of Tory government, or 6 months of Labour?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688
    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15

    She could do herself a favour by abolishing most of them. Not only would that cut red tape but it would save the hard cash they get from HMG,
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    That was the dire David Cameron, five Prime Ministers ago. It also didn't stop them winning triumphantly in 2019 or leading in the polls for the first half of that Parliament, so I'm not sure how beneficial it will be.

    Far better to admit to mistakes on mattes of current salience, such as uncontrolled immigration, statist economic policies and Nut Zero lunacy. People might actually care.
    Also worth pointing out the Tories Parliamentary party were split 50/50 and half of them campaigned to remain. The Tory govt enacted Brexit as the will of the people. Whether die hard remainers, like that Femi bloke and the tit in the Top hat, like it or not.

    We have left the EU, we are not going back.

    Focus on the here and now not revisiting the battles of 2016.

  • Interesting that the Mail and Express both lead on the crisis in the NHS. Caused by 14 years of Tory government, or 6 months of Labour?

    Good morning

    25 years of labour here in Wales

    The NHS is devolved in Wales and Scotland
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,365

    Growth of 0.1% could easily be a contraction of 0.1% or worse after revisions.

    I always ask the same question: What is the uncertainty range on the figure?

    Saying that the economy grew by 0.1% if we only know the size of it (say) +/-2% is nonsense on stilts.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906
    Taz said:

    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    That was the dire David Cameron, five Prime Ministers ago. It also didn't stop them winning triumphantly in 2019 or leading in the polls for the first half of that Parliament, so I'm not sure how beneficial it will be.

    Far better to admit to mistakes on mattes of current salience, such as uncontrolled immigration, statist economic policies and Nut Zero lunacy. People might actually care.
    Also worth pointing out the Tories Parliamentary party were split 50/50 and half of them campaigned to remain. The Tory govt enacted Brexit as the will of the people. Whether die hard remainers, like that Femi bloke and the tit in the Top hat, like it or not.

    We have left the EU, we are not going back.

    Focus on the here and now not revisiting the battles of 2016.

    But as you keep pointing out, Brexit is the here and now.
    The fact that we never had a coherent plan of how to manage the UK's new situation - and still don't - is not something to be ignored.

    The equivalent would be my saying "Labour are in government; there's no point in arguing about their policies". That would be absurd.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,759
    The Tories 2019-2024 Too many bad* eggs, doing bad things, for bad reasons, badly.

    Some notable exceptions of course, but folks like Cummings, Braverman, or Jenrick aren’t always the most sympathetic human beings.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,637
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    That's fine but when she was part of that govt she owned those mistakes as well.

    She was hardly an effective Minister in any of her portfolios either.

    The Tories will come to rue electing her. She is the Tories Ed Miliband.

    I wonder if we will get the Kemi Stone.
    Thing is that a defeated government pretty much has to pick an opposition leader from that failed government.

    The case for Badenoch remains that the alternative could be even worse.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,888
    edited January 16
    Taz said:

    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    That was the dire David Cameron, five Prime Ministers ago. It also didn't stop them winning triumphantly in 2019 or leading in the polls for the first half of that Parliament, so I'm not sure how beneficial it will be.

    Far better to admit to mistakes on mattes of current salience, such as uncontrolled immigration, statist economic policies and Nut Zero lunacy. People might actually care.
    Also worth pointing out the Tories Parliamentary party were split 50/50 and half of them campaigned to remain. The Tory govt enacted Brexit as the will of the people. Whether die hard remainers, like that Femi bloke and the tit in the Top hat, like it or not.

    We have left the EU, we are not going back.

    Focus on the here and now not revisiting the battles of 2016.

    It is not up to you to say that we will not rejoin the EU. It is up to the British public.

    (I agree it is unlikely in the short or medium term; but a lot of leavers scream "Never!" when it is perfectly feasible that it could happen.)
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,795
    One month's figures tell us *nothing* about "growth". Whether they are revised or not later all they do is hint about the short-run state of the economy
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688

    Growth of 0.1% could easily be a contraction of 0.1% or worse after revisions.

    I always ask the same question: What is the uncertainty range on the figure?

    Saying that the economy grew by 0.1% if we only know the size of it (say) +/-2% is nonsense on stilts.
    It simply shows the level of desperation that we're getting excited about 0.1%

    Like TimS I would assume there would be some level of upward revision as construction is often underreported initially. But that said we had 2 months of contraction so when all is said and done we are probably flatlining.

    The outlook is more the worry.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,365

    Interesting that the Mail and Express both lead on the crisis in the NHS. Caused by 14 years of Tory government, or 6 months of Labour?

    Good morning

    25 years of labour here in Wales

    The NHS is devolved in Wales and Scotland
    And funded from Westminster.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,385
    edited January 16

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    That's fine but when she was part of that govt she owned those mistakes as well.

    She was hardly an effective Minister in any of her portfolios either.

    The Tories will come to rue electing her. She is the Tories Ed Miliband.

    I wonder if we will get the Kemi Stone.
    Thing is that a defeated government pretty much has to pick an opposition leader from that failed government.

    The case for Badenoch remains that the alternative could be even worse.
    The only point of Kemi Badenoch was to save the Conservative Party, and us generally, from Robert Jenrick. The risk is she does so badly in other areas that she is removed and we end up with Jenrick anyway.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    edited January 16
    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15

    Rachel from accounts belatedly realising that the UK needs a Department of Government Efficiency.

    Oh, and that doesn’t mean employing 500 McKinsey staff to produce a 3,000 page report in 2027, it means doing it the American way and getting a couple of maverick business types in, to cut out whole swathes of the standing bureaucracy and repealing the legislation that supports them.

    Governments of all stripes have been the same since Thatcher, always talking about making efficiencies but overseeing a constant rise in the cost of government.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    That was the dire David Cameron, five Prime Ministers ago. It also didn't stop them winning triumphantly in 2019 or leading in the polls for the first half of that Parliament, so I'm not sure how beneficial it will be.

    Far better to admit to mistakes on mattes of current salience, such as uncontrolled immigration, statist economic policies and Nut Zero lunacy. People might actually care.
    Also worth pointing out the Tories Parliamentary party were split 50/50 and half of them campaigned to remain. The Tory govt enacted Brexit as the will of the people. Whether die hard remainers, like that Femi bloke and the tit in the Top hat, like it or not.

    We have left the EU, we are not going back.

    Focus on the here and now not revisiting the battles of 2016.

    But as you keep pointing out, Brexit is the here and now.
    The fact that we never had a coherent plan of how to manage the UK's new situation - and still don't - is not something to be ignored.

    The equivalent would be my saying "Labour are in government; there's no point in arguing about their policies". That would be absurd.
    The world has moved on from events 9 years ago.

    Remainers constantly ignore the other side of the equation which is whether the EU would want us back. There is no appetite for it
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,406

    Re-posting this from the end of the last thread so more people see it, Sam Harris on Elon Musk and how they fell out over a bet: https://samharris.substack.com/p/the-trouble-with-elon First posted by rcs1000.

    Fascinating. I always thought of tech/media barons as pushing their own views/shaping the world to their preferences. I never really considered that they self-radicalise... but logically Elon spends longer on twitter than most people, so why wouldn't that change him?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Growth of 0.1% could easily be a contraction of 0.1% or worse after revisions.

    Or growth of 0.2%. GDP estimates go all over the place when they’re revised but in recent years they’ve tended to go up.
    I think that that you are missing the important PB herd consensus:

    Under Tory chancellors revisions are always upwards under Labour ones always downwards.

    Similarly rich people need bumper payrises to motivate them, poor people getting payrises are a drag on productivity.
    Given the amount the amount of gold the doctors have had shoved down their throats we will not only have the healthiest nation on the planet but also the most motivated medical profession ever.

    Or not
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,052
    Taz said:

    stodge said:

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    The mea culpa is vital. Sunak started it the day after the election but it’s been a wasted six months for the Conservatives.

    Badenoch has to admit mistakes were made and her part in them as a big part of wiping the slate clean with the public.
    Yes, she should, but will she and would the public forgive a sinner repenting and if we were to vote her back into office how do we know she would not simply revert to type.

    Quite frankly she's had her chance. She fucked it big style. Time to get someone untainted by the last 14 years in govt.
    That’s often where parties end up - Blair and Cameron had no connection to the previous administrations of their respective parties and as such could present themselves to the public without emotional and political baggage.

    It’s possible the next Conservative Prime Minister only became an MP in July last year - it’s more likely they will be elected in 2029.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    Elon Musk congratulates Jeff Bezos for the Blue Origin flight this morning.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1879793206973591769

    Starship launch is now scheduled for tonight at 22:00 UTC.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,203
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    That's fine but when she was part of that govt she owned those mistakes as well.

    She was hardly an effective Minister in any of her portfolios either.

    The Tories will come to rue electing her. She is the Tories Ed Miliband.

    I wonder if we will get the Kemi Stone.
    If she can come up with anything as banal and unintentionally insulting to everyone as 'An NHS with time to care' she will be going some.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15

    Rachel from accounts belatedly realising that the UK needs a Department of Government Efficiency.

    Oh, and that doesn’t mean employing 500 McKinsey staff to produce a 3,000 page report in 2027, it means doing it the American way and getting a couple of maverick business types in to cut out whole swathes of the standing bureaucracy and repealing the legislation that supports them.

    Governments of all stripes have been the same since Thatcher, always talking about making efficiencies but overseeing a constant rise in the cost of government.
    The problem is that DOGE is bullshit.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/elon-musk-says-doge-probably-wont-find-2-trillion-federal-budget-cuts-rcna186924

    It is possible that he might find more savings if he paid attention to it rather than go on ketamine fueled all night Twitter rants of course.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,358
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15

    Rachel from accounts belatedly realising that the UK needs a Department of Government Efficiency.

    Oh, and that doesn’t mean employing 500 McKinsey staff to produce a 3,000 page report in 2027, it means doing it the American way and getting a couple of maverick business types in to cut out whole swathes of the standing bureaucracy and repealing the legislation that supports them.

    Governments of all stripes have been the same since Thatcher, always talking about making efficiencies but overseeing a constant rise in the cost of government.
    The only thing Musk has found to cut so far is his target of cutting $2trn, down to $1trn after a few weeks. I have such faith in this genius that I am sure he will be announcing another $1trn cut in his target sooner rather than later.

    The maverick business types are there to plunder what they can from the federal budget, nothing more and this is blatantly obvious.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,208

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Economic growth looking about as good as New Glenn’s first stage right now.

    Are the numbers out ?
    The UK economy grew for the first time in three months, driven in part by a boost in trade for pubs and restaurants.

    Official figures showed an expansion 0.1% after the economy shrank in each of the two previous months.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8r5jkv5g5po
    So, the fact that we are all depressed about the state of the economy drove us to the pub creating a smidgeon of growth?

    With nearly 15m apparently doing dry January (including me) not sure that is going to last.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,605

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Growth of 0.1% could easily be a contraction of 0.1% or worse after revisions.

    Or growth of 0.2%. GDP estimates go all over the place when they’re revised but in recent years they’ve tended to go up.
    I think that that you are missing the important PB herd consensus:

    Under Tory chancellors revisions are always upwards under Labour ones always downwards.

    Similarly rich people need bumper payrises to motivate them, poor people getting payrises are a drag on productivity.
    Given the amount the amount of gold the doctors have had shoved down their throats we will not only have the healthiest nation on the planet but also the most motivated medical profession ever.

    Or not
    Sounds suspiciously like the politics of envy
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 669

    Dopermean said:

    I'd actually say that those figures are quite good for the Conservatives six months into a new Labour government. Labour have had very little time to muck things up, compared to the Conservative's fifteen years, yet either half blame Labour or both equally.

    It was only 14 years thankfully, another year and they might have got waiting lists into 8 figures.
    I agree with you, 6 months in you're only just starting to implement policies, it'll take 2-3 years before they have any real effect.
    That's why the coalition govt isn't seen as bad as it actually was, for at least the first 2-3 years public services were running on the momentum from the labour govt.
    The momentum from the Labour government in 2010 was pretty much downwards IMV... ;)

    The coalition was a rare moment of competent government.
    In your view.
    Public services were beginning to see the benefits from sure start, then the austerity cuts started to take effect after a couple of years.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    That was the dire David Cameron, five Prime Ministers ago. It also didn't stop them winning triumphantly in 2019 or leading in the polls for the first half of that Parliament, so I'm not sure how beneficial it will be.

    Far better to admit to mistakes on mattes of current salience, such as uncontrolled immigration, statist economic policies and Nut Zero lunacy. People might actually care.
    Also worth pointing out the Tories Parliamentary party were split 50/50 and half of them campaigned to remain. The Tory govt enacted Brexit as the will of the people. Whether die hard remainers, like that Femi bloke and the tit in the Top hat, like it or not.

    We have left the EU, we are not going back.

    Focus on the here and now not revisiting the battles of 2016.

    But as you keep pointing out, Brexit is the here and now.
    The fact that we never had a coherent plan of how to manage the UK's new situation - and still don't - is not something to be ignored.

    The equivalent would be my saying "Labour are in government; there's no point in arguing about their policies". That would be absurd.
    The world has moved on from events 9 years ago.

    Remainers constantly ignore the other side of the equation which is whether the EU would want us back. There is no appetite for it
    I'm not ignoring anything; it's you who isn't addressing my argument.
    "...we never had a coherent plan of how to manage the UK's new situation - and still don't.."
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Growth of 0.1% could easily be a contraction of 0.1% or worse after revisions.

    Or growth of 0.2%. GDP estimates go all over the place when they’re revised but in recent years they’ve tended to go up.
    I think that that you are missing the important PB herd consensus:

    Under Tory chancellors revisions are always upwards under Labour ones always downwards.

    Similarly rich people need bumper payrises to motivate them, poor people getting payrises are a drag on productivity.
    Given the amount the amount of gold the doctors have had shoved down their throats we will not only have the healthiest nation on the planet but also the most motivated medical profession ever.

    Or not
    Sounds suspiciously like the politics of envy
    Why not ? I believe it's in vogue at present.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,330

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    That's fine but when she was part of that govt she owned those mistakes as well.

    She was hardly an effective Minister in any of her portfolios either.

    The Tories will come to rue electing her. She is the Tories Ed Miliband.

    I wonder if we will get the Kemi Stone.
    Thing is that a defeated government pretty much has to pick an opposition leader from that failed government.

    The case for Badenoch remains that the alternative could be even worse.
    The alternative was even worse, and keeps reminding everyone of that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15

    Rachel from accounts belatedly realising that the UK needs a Department of Government Efficiency.

    Oh, and that doesn’t mean employing 500 McKinsey staff to produce a 3,000 page report in 2027, it means doing it the American way and getting a couple of maverick business types in, to cut out whole swathes of the standing bureaucracy and repealing the legislation that supports them...
    Does it ?
    Perhaps we should wait and see what they actually do before declaring their model successful.
  • Rachel from Accounts hits the back of the net. She is Alexander Isak

    With a per capita decline?

    Population is growing more than 0.1% so per capita that is recessionary.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,888
    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    I'd actually say that those figures are quite good for the Conservatives six months into a new Labour government. Labour have had very little time to muck things up, compared to the Conservative's fifteen years, yet either half blame Labour or both equally.

    It was only 14 years thankfully, another year and they might have got waiting lists into 8 figures.
    I agree with you, 6 months in you're only just starting to implement policies, it'll take 2-3 years before they have any real effect.
    That's why the coalition govt isn't seen as bad as it actually was, for at least the first 2-3 years public services were running on the momentum from the labour govt.
    The momentum from the Labour government in 2010 was pretty much downwards IMV... ;)

    The coalition was a rare moment of competent government.
    In your view.
    Public services were beginning to see the benefits from sure start, then the austerity cuts started to take effect after a couple of years.
    That's ignoring the state of the economy that Blair and Brown bequeathed the incoming government.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15

    Rachel from accounts belatedly realising that the UK needs a Department of Government Efficiency.

    Oh, and that doesn’t mean employing 500 McKinsey staff to produce a 3,000 page report in 2027, it means doing it the American way and getting a couple of maverick business types in to cut out whole swathes of the standing bureaucracy and repealing the legislation that supports them.

    Governments of all stripes have been the same since Thatcher, always talking about making efficiencies but overseeing a constant rise in the cost of government.
    The only thing Musk has found to cut so far is his target of cutting $2trn, down to $1trn after a few weeks. I have such faith in this genius that I am sure he will be announcing another $1trn cut in his target sooner rather than later.

    The maverick business types are there to plunder what they can from the federal budget, nothing more and this is blatantly obvious.
    It's worth quoting Bidens final presidential address to the nation:

    “Today, an oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme wealth, power and influence that literally threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms, and a fair shot for everyone to get ahead,” Biden said.

    The president outlined some of his most pressing concerns, including what he described as a “crumbling” free press, the outsized influence of the military-industrial complex, rising disinformation, and the need to remove dark money from politics. He also called for constitutional amendments to ensure presidential accountability, arguing that no president should be immune from prosecution for crimes committed while in office..

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/15/joe-biden-farewell-address-trump-oligarchy-america?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I think that one of the most clear headed and concise analysis of the state of politics in recent times.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,312
    edited January 16
    Nigelb said:

    Perhaps TSE could file an amicus brief ?

    Justice Alito Asks If You Can Read Pornhub for the Articles
    https://www.thecut.com/article/justice-samuel-alito-pornhub-essays.html

    Somebody in Texas is not very good at drafting laws. The law under challenge:

    "The law, HB 1181, requires all websites with “over one-third sexual material harmful to minors” to use “reasonable age verification methods” to determine that users are over 18."

    How the hell do you measure that?

    It gets better:

    “Is it like the old Playboy magazines?” Alito asked Derek Shaffer, the attorney representing the adult industry. “You have essays there by the modern-day equivalent of Gore Vidal and William F. Buckley Jr.?”

    Where's the Riviera Gigolo when you need him?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,330
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15

    Rachel from accounts belatedly realising that the UK needs a Department of Government Efficiency.

    Oh, and that doesn’t mean employing 500 McKinsey staff to produce a 3,000 page report in 2027, it means doing it the American way and getting a couple of maverick business types in, to cut out whole swathes of the standing bureaucracy and repealing the legislation that supports them...
    Does it ?
    Perhaps we should wait and see what they actually do before declaring their model successful.
    C’mon, let’s get Charlie Mullins and Michelle Mone involved. What could possibly go wrong?
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    That's fine but when she was part of that govt she owned those mistakes as well.

    She was hardly an effective Minister in any of her portfolios either.

    The Tories will come to rue electing her. She is the Tories Ed Miliband.

    I wonder if we will get the Kemi Stone.
    Thing is that a defeated government pretty much has to pick an opposition leader from that failed government.

    The case for Badenoch remains that the alternative could be even worse.
    But they could have been better and less tainted by the previous 14 years.

    Still they went with who they went with and will suffer the consequences.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15

    Rachel from accounts belatedly realising that the UK needs a Department of Government Efficiency.

    Oh, and that doesn’t mean employing 500 McKinsey staff to produce a 3,000 page report in 2027, it means doing it the American way and getting a couple of maverick business types in to cut out whole swathes of the standing bureaucracy and repealing the legislation that supports them.

    Governments of all stripes have been the same since Thatcher, always talking about making efficiencies but overseeing a constant rise in the cost of government.
    The only thing Musk has found to cut so far is his target of cutting $2trn, down to $1trn after a few weeks. I have such faith in this genius that I am sure he will be announcing another $1trn cut in his target sooner rather than later.

    The maverick business types are there to plunder what they can from the federal budget, nothing more and this is blatantly obvious.
    It's worth quoting Bidens final presidential address to the nation:

    “Today, an oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme wealth, power and influence that literally threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms, and a fair shot for everyone to get ahead,” Biden said.

    The president outlined some of his most pressing concerns, including what he described as a “crumbling” free press, the outsized influence of the military-industrial complex, rising disinformation, and the need to remove dark money from politics. He also called for constitutional amendments to ensure presidential accountability, arguing that no president should be immune from prosecution for crimes committed while in office..

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/15/joe-biden-farewell-address-trump-oligarchy-america?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I think that one of the most clear headed and concise analysis of the state of politics in recent times.
    And yet he was good with all of that when he thought it was on his side.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524
    edited January 16
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Economic growth looking about as good as New Glenn’s first stage right now.

    Are the numbers out ?
    The UK economy grew for the first time in three months, driven in part by a boost in trade for pubs and restaurants.

    Official figures showed an expansion 0.1% after the economy shrank in each of the two previous months.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8r5jkv5g5po
    So, the fact that we are all depressed about the state of the economy drove us to the pub creating a smidgeon of growth?

    With nearly 15m apparently doing dry January (including me) not sure that is going to last.
    Yes, but figures are seasonally adjusted, so would compare with last years dry January.

    Not something that I participate in. January is miserable enough already without being sober too, and Burns Night is coming up shortly.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,204
    edited January 16

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    That was the dire David Cameron, five Prime Ministers ago. It also didn't stop them winning triumphantly in 2019 or leading in the polls for the first half of that Parliament, so I'm not sure how beneficial it will be.

    Far better to admit to mistakes on mattes of current salience, such as uncontrolled immigration, statist economic policies and Nut Zero lunacy. People might actually care.
    Also worth pointing out the Tories Parliamentary party were split 50/50 and half of them campaigned to remain. The Tory govt enacted Brexit as the will of the people. Whether die hard remainers, like that Femi bloke and the tit in the Top hat, like it or not.

    We have left the EU, we are not going back.

    Focus on the here and now not revisiting the battles of 2016.

    But as you keep pointing out, Brexit is the here and now.
    The fact that we never had a coherent plan of how to manage the UK's new situation - and still don't - is not something to be ignored.

    The equivalent would be my saying "Labour are in government; there's no point in arguing about their policies". That would be absurd.
    The world has moved on from events 9 years ago.

    Remainers constantly ignore the other side of the equation which is whether the EU would want us back. There is no appetite for it
    Also have you noticed how whenever you point out we'd have to hand over £20-30 billion every year (where from, by the way? Health? Education? Defence?) and adopt the Euro if we rejoin, even the most ardent Remoaner always changes the subject?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,166

    Remainers constantly ignore the other side of the equation which is whether the EU would want us back. There is no appetite for it

    Bollocks

    There are a number of countries lining up to join

    No evidence the UK couldn't be one of them
  • Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15

    Rachel from accounts belatedly realising that the UK needs a Department of Government Efficiency.

    Oh, and that doesn’t mean employing 500 McKinsey staff to produce a 3,000 page report in 2027, it means doing it the American way and getting a couple of maverick business types in, to cut out whole swathes of the standing bureaucracy and repealing the legislation that supports them.

    Governments of all stripes have been the same since Thatcher, always talking about making efficiencies but overseeing a constant rise in the cost of government.
    We don't need either McKinsey or self-interested mavericks we need to get rid of the obstacles to growth.

    Repealing Attlee's planning regulations and going back to 1930s planning laws would do the job nicely. And cut rather than increase the number of staff needed to enforce those regulations.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,038
    There is a problem with the things Kemi intends to say the Tories got wrong in recent years, even though it is a necessary step. The BBC mentions: net zero planning, migration numbers and planning for leaving the EU.

    These matters are so important and so basic that it is hard to see how, with the overwhelming policy resource available to the state, anyone could fail to spot these gaps and contradictions in advance. So it is not just incompetence, it is considered and deliberate wreckage of the welfare of the nation.

    Kemi may have difficulty in showing from the record that she would have got all these matters right at the time.

    The Tories are still polling at about their irremovable base support. I doubt if this will change soon unless Reform and LDs make glaring errors.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688
    edited January 16
    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    That was the dire David Cameron, five Prime Ministers ago. It also didn't stop them winning triumphantly in 2019 or leading in the polls for the first half of that Parliament, so I'm not sure how beneficial it will be.

    Far better to admit to mistakes on mattes of current salience, such as uncontrolled immigration, statist economic policies and Nut Zero lunacy. People might actually care.
    Also worth pointing out the Tories Parliamentary party were split 50/50 and half of them campaigned to remain. The Tory govt enacted Brexit as the will of the people. Whether die hard remainers, like that Femi bloke and the tit in the Top hat, like it or not.

    We have left the EU, we are not going back.

    Focus on the here and now not revisiting the battles of 2016.

    But as you keep pointing out, Brexit is the here and now.
    The fact that we never had a coherent plan of how to manage the UK's new situation - and still don't - is not something to be ignored.

    The equivalent would be my saying "Labour are in government; there's no point in arguing about their policies". That would be absurd.
    The world has moved on from events 9 years ago.

    Remainers constantly ignore the other side of the equation which is whether the EU would want us back. There is no appetite for it
    Also have you noticed how whenever you point out we'd have to hand over £20-30 billion every year and adopt the Euro if we rejoin, even the most ardent Remoaner always changes the subject?
    Not only that but rejoining terms would be fairly dtaconian and then the constant interference in day to day life which we have all forgotten would be back and start to grate again.

    It's why I maintain that the polls on rejoining will shift massively when the costs are placed in front of the electorate.

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,385
    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    Suspect it will be more "we haven't made Communism work" than a "we really mucked up with Brexit" reflection.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,208
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Economic growth looking about as good as New Glenn’s first stage right now.

    Are the numbers out ?
    The UK economy grew for the first time in three months, driven in part by a boost in trade for pubs and restaurants.

    Official figures showed an expansion 0.1% after the economy shrank in each of the two previous months.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8r5jkv5g5po
    So, the fact that we are all depressed about the state of the economy drove us to the pub creating a smidgeon of growth?

    With nearly 15m apparently doing dry January (including me) not sure that is going to last.
    Yes, but figures are seasonally adjusted, so would compare with last years dry January.

    Not something that I participate in. January is miserable enough already without being sober too, and Burns Night is coming up shortly.
    I've had some health issues which drove my participation this year. A couple of nights ago I got a night in a Ward after an extremely painful episode with gallstones.

    That was the first time I have had anything like that for 4 years but it was probably caused because I have been letting things slip including going back to fatty meats and too much wine resulting in an increase in weight. Disappointing it happened after 2 weeks of abstinence though.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,894
    geoffw said:

    One month's figures tell us *nothing* about "growth". Whether they are revised or not later all they do is hint about the short-run state of the economy

    Politicians use the figure tho. .. enthusiastically if better than 0. 0.1% is roundings
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,835
    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15

    It’s hardly Natural England that is a bar to growth. It’s the laws which it is their duty to regulate. Which they didn’t put on the statute.

    And in any case we’ve seen where light touch regulation takes us. Rivers full of shit.

    At a time of biodiversity and climate crisis, we need to do more for nature not less, but the farming lobby stands in the way of every single atrempt to create the conditions for nature recovery.

    I suggest you stop looking for simple solutions and scapegoats and look at the bigger picture. Or at least substantiate your arguments better than whatever simplistic drivel is presented in the popular media.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,470

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15

    Rachel from accounts belatedly realising that the UK needs a Department of Government Efficiency.

    Oh, and that doesn’t mean employing 500 McKinsey staff to produce a 3,000 page report in 2027, it means doing it the American way and getting a couple of maverick business types in to cut out whole swathes of the standing bureaucracy and repealing the legislation that supports them.

    Governments of all stripes have been the same since Thatcher, always talking about making efficiencies but overseeing a constant rise in the cost of government.
    The only thing Musk has found to cut so far is his target of cutting $2trn, down to $1trn after a few weeks. I have such faith in this genius that I am sure he will be announcing another $1trn cut in his target sooner rather than later.

    The maverick business types are there to plunder what they can from the federal budget, nothing more and this is blatantly obvious.
    It's worth quoting Bidens final presidential address to the nation:

    “Today, an oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme wealth, power and influence that literally threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms, and a fair shot for everyone to get ahead,” Biden said.

    The president outlined some of his most pressing concerns, including what he described as a “crumbling” free press, the outsized influence of the military-industrial complex, rising disinformation, and the need to remove dark money from politics. He also called for constitutional amendments to ensure presidential accountability, arguing that no president should be immune from prosecution for crimes committed while in office..

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/15/joe-biden-farewell-address-trump-oligarchy-america?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I think that one of the most clear headed and concise analysis of the state of politics in recent times.
    And yet he was good with all of that when he thought it was on his side.
    "no president should be immune from prosecution for crimes committed while in office.."

    That a was bonkers decision by Supreme Court only a few months ago, so you can hardly expected Biden to be able to move on that one.

    It's a good summary but sadly at least 50% of US voters don't give a shit as long as eggs and Mc Donalds are falling in price.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    edited January 16

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15

    Rachel from accounts belatedly realising that the UK needs a Department of Government Efficiency.

    Oh, and that doesn’t mean employing 500 McKinsey staff to produce a 3,000 page report in 2027, it means doing it the American way and getting a couple of maverick business types in, to cut out whole swathes of the standing bureaucracy and repealing the legislation that supports them.

    Governments of all stripes have been the same since Thatcher, always talking about making efficiencies but overseeing a constant rise in the cost of government.
    We don't need either McKinsey or self-interested mavericks we need to get rid of the obstacles to growth.

    Repealing Attlee's planning regulations and going back to 1930s planning laws would do the job nicely. And cut rather than increase the number of staff needed to enforce those regulations.
    Planning is indeed the first place to start, alongside the building regulations that are more aligned to Ed Miliband’s green agenda than anything to do with safety, and have increased the cost of building anything in recent years.

    But someone needs to be the one who drives the whole project forward, and Rachel is off to exactly the wrong start by asking the regulators how to do it. The turkeys aren’t going to recommend a month of Christmases and Thanksgivings.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688
    edited January 16
    Scott_xP said:

    Remainers constantly ignore the other side of the equation which is whether the EU would want us back. There is no appetite for it

    Bollocks

    There are a number of countries lining up to join

    No evidence the UK couldn't be one of them
    We're tainted, the Mrs Rochester of nations. France will veto it like De Gaulle did.

    Nobody will be slaughtering the fatted calf if we turn up on the doorstep.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,065
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, I hope the gallstones can be dealt with promptly and with as little pain as possible, and by the prettiest of nurses.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229

    Rachel from Accounts hits the back of the net. She is Alexander Isak

    She's knocked it out of the park.

    We haven't had a Chancellor this strong since Ken Clarke.

    Well done her. A real titan among minnows.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    That was the dire David Cameron, five Prime Ministers ago. It also didn't stop them winning triumphantly in 2019 or leading in the polls for the first half of that Parliament, so I'm not sure how beneficial it will be.

    Far better to admit to mistakes on mattes of current salience, such as uncontrolled immigration, statist economic policies and Nut Zero lunacy. People might actually care.
    Also worth pointing out the Tories Parliamentary party were split 50/50 and half of them campaigned to remain. The Tory govt enacted Brexit as the will of the people. Whether die hard remainers, like that Femi bloke and the tit in the Top hat, like it or not.

    We have left the EU, we are not going back.

    Focus on the here and now not revisiting the battles of 2016.

    But as you keep pointing out, Brexit is the here and now.
    The fact that we never had a coherent plan of how to manage the UK's new situation - and still don't - is not something to be ignored.

    The equivalent would be my saying "Labour are in government; there's no point in arguing about their policies". That would be absurd.
    The world has moved on from events 9 years ago.

    Remainers constantly ignore the other side of the equation which is whether the EU would want us back. There is no appetite for it
    Also have you noticed how whenever you point out we'd have to hand over £20-30 billion every year (where from, by the way? Health? Education? Defence?) and adopt the Euro if we rejoin, even the most ardent Remoaner always changes the subject?
    #values
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688
    edited January 16

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15

    Rachel from accounts belatedly realising that the UK needs a Department of Government Efficiency.

    Oh, and that doesn’t mean employing 500 McKinsey staff to produce a 3,000 page report in 2027, it means doing it the American way and getting a couple of maverick business types in to cut out whole swathes of the standing bureaucracy and repealing the legislation that supports them.

    Governments of all stripes have been the same since Thatcher, always talking about making efficiencies but overseeing a constant rise in the cost of government.
    The only thing Musk has found to cut so far is his target of cutting $2trn, down to $1trn after a few weeks. I have such faith in this genius that I am sure he will be announcing another $1trn cut in his target sooner rather than later.

    The maverick business types are there to plunder what they can from the federal budget, nothing more and this is blatantly obvious.
    It's worth quoting Bidens final presidential address to the nation:

    “Today, an oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme wealth, power and influence that literally threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms, and a fair shot for everyone to get ahead,” Biden said.

    The president outlined some of his most pressing concerns, including what he described as a “crumbling” free press, the outsized influence of the military-industrial complex, rising disinformation, and the need to remove dark money from politics. He also called for constitutional amendments to ensure presidential accountability, arguing that no president should be immune from prosecution for crimes committed while in office..

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/15/joe-biden-farewell-address-trump-oligarchy-america?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I think that one of the most clear headed and concise analysis of the state of politics in recent times.
    And yet he was good with all of that when he thought it was on his side.
    "no president should be immune from prosecution for crimes committed while in office.."

    That a was bonkers decision by Supreme Court only a few months ago, so you can hardly expected Biden to be able to move on that one.

    It's a good summary but sadly at least 50% of US voters don't give a shit as long as eggs and Mc Donalds are falling in price.
    If youre on the breadline and living in a trailer park food prices are more important than abstract concepts.

    It;s a phenomenon across the west that our politicians spend too much time forgetting their citizens interests and then get surprised when the citizens revolt.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15

    Rachel from accounts belatedly realising that the UK needs a Department of Government Efficiency.

    Oh, and that doesn’t mean employing 500 McKinsey staff to produce a 3,000 page report in 2027, it means doing it the American way and getting a couple of maverick business types in to cut out whole swathes of the standing bureaucracy and repealing the legislation that supports them.

    Governments of all stripes have been the same since Thatcher, always talking about making efficiencies but overseeing a constant rise in the cost of government.
    The only thing Musk has found to cut so far is his target of cutting $2trn, down to $1trn after a few weeks. I have such faith in this genius that I am sure he will be announcing another $1trn cut in his target sooner rather than later.

    The maverick business types are there to plunder what they can from the federal budget, nothing more and this is blatantly obvious.
    It's worth quoting Bidens final presidential address to the nation:

    “Today, an oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme wealth, power and influence that literally threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms, and a fair shot for everyone to get ahead,” Biden said.

    The president outlined some of his most pressing concerns, including what he described as a “crumbling” free press, the outsized influence of the military-industrial complex, rising disinformation, and the need to remove dark money from politics. He also called for constitutional amendments to ensure presidential accountability, arguing that no president should be immune from prosecution for crimes committed while in office..

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/15/joe-biden-farewell-address-trump-oligarchy-america?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I think that one of the most clear headed and concise analysis of the state of politics in recent times.
    And yet he was good with all of that when he thought it was on his side.
    Same as all the Democrat Senators yesterday asking Pam Bondi if she thinks it’s bad to politicise the DOJ, as if the DOJ under Biden hasn’t been the most politicised in its history.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Growth of 0.1% could easily be a contraction of 0.1% or worse after revisions.

    Or growth of 0.2%. GDP estimates go all over the place when they’re revised but in recent years they’ve tended to go up.
    I think that that you are missing the important PB herd consensus:

    Under Tory chancellors revisions are always upwards under Labour ones always downwards.

    Similarly rich people need bumper payrises to motivate them, poor people getting payrises are a drag on productivity.
    Your shilling for the government on the last thread was pretty desperate.

    I saw you cited how both the FTSE 100 and FTSE 250 were up on a year ago, whilst ignoring that almost all of this growth was from January to May 2024 and it's stalled since and, in fact, has gone slightly backwards.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,888

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15

    Rachel from accounts belatedly realising that the UK needs a Department of Government Efficiency.

    Oh, and that doesn’t mean employing 500 McKinsey staff to produce a 3,000 page report in 2027, it means doing it the American way and getting a couple of maverick business types in to cut out whole swathes of the standing bureaucracy and repealing the legislation that supports them.

    Governments of all stripes have been the same since Thatcher, always talking about making efficiencies but overseeing a constant rise in the cost of government.
    The only thing Musk has found to cut so far is his target of cutting $2trn, down to $1trn after a few weeks. I have such faith in this genius that I am sure he will be announcing another $1trn cut in his target sooner rather than later.

    The maverick business types are there to plunder what they can from the federal budget, nothing more and this is blatantly obvious.
    It's worth quoting Bidens final presidential address to the nation:

    “Today, an oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme wealth, power and influence that literally threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms, and a fair shot for everyone to get ahead,” Biden said.

    The president outlined some of his most pressing concerns, including what he described as a “crumbling” free press, the outsized influence of the military-industrial complex, rising disinformation, and the need to remove dark money from politics. He also called for constitutional amendments to ensure presidential accountability, arguing that no president should be immune from prosecution for crimes committed while in office..

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/15/joe-biden-farewell-address-trump-oligarchy-america?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I think that one of the most clear headed and concise analysis of the state of politics in recent times.
    And yet he was good with all of that when he thought it was on his side.
    "no president should be immune from prosecution for crimes committed while in office.."

    That a was bonkers decision by Supreme Court only a few months ago, so you can hardly expected Biden to be able to move on that one.

    It's a good summary but sadly at least 50% of US voters don't give a shit as long as eggs and Mc Donalds are falling in price.
    If youre on the breadline and living in a trailer park food prices are more important then abstract concepts.

    It;s a phenomenon across the west that our politicians spend too much time forgetting their citizens interests and then get surprised when the citizens revolt.
    You'd have a point, except Trump, Musk and the bad people of the GOP haven't just forgotten about their citizens' interests; they don't care. They're narcissists.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,312
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Economic growth looking about as good as New Glenn’s first stage right now.

    Are the numbers out ?
    The UK economy grew for the first time in three months, driven in part by a boost in trade for pubs and restaurants.

    Official figures showed an expansion 0.1% after the economy shrank in each of the two previous months.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8r5jkv5g5po
    So, the fact that we are all depressed about the state of the economy drove us to the pub creating a smidgeon of growth?

    With nearly 15m apparently doing dry January (including me) not sure that is going to last.
    Yes, but figures are seasonally adjusted, so would compare with last years dry January.

    Not something that I participate in. January is miserable enough already without being sober too, and Burns Night is coming up shortly.
    I've had some health issues which drove my participation this year. A couple of nights ago I got a night in a Ward after an extremely painful episode with gallstones.

    That was the first time I have had anything like that for 4 years but it was probably caused because I have been letting things slip including going back to fatty meats and too much wine resulting in an increase in weight. Disappointing it happened after 2 weeks of abstinence though.
    Sympathy with that.

    When my dad had gallstones they put him on a starvation diet for a couple of weeks. He turned yellow and they had "push button" on demand dosage of morphine on him.

    I have my issues, but I've never had to go through that level of pain, I think.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15

    Rachel from accounts belatedly realising that the UK needs a Department of Government Efficiency.

    Oh, and that doesn’t mean employing 500 McKinsey staff to produce a 3,000 page report in 2027, it means doing it the American way and getting a couple of maverick business types in to cut out whole swathes of the standing bureaucracy and repealing the legislation that supports them.

    Governments of all stripes have been the same since Thatcher, always talking about making efficiencies but overseeing a constant rise in the cost of government.
    The only thing Musk has found to cut so far is his target of cutting $2trn, down to $1trn after a few weeks. I have such faith in this genius that I am sure he will be announcing another $1trn cut in his target sooner rather than later.

    The maverick business types are there to plunder what they can from the federal budget, nothing more and this is blatantly obvious.
    It's worth quoting Bidens final presidential address to the nation:

    “Today, an oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme wealth, power and influence that literally threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms, and a fair shot for everyone to get ahead,” Biden said.

    The president outlined some of his most pressing concerns, including what he described as a “crumbling” free press, the outsized influence of the military-industrial complex, rising disinformation, and the need to remove dark money from politics. He also called for constitutional amendments to ensure presidential accountability, arguing that no president should be immune from prosecution for crimes committed while in office..

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/15/joe-biden-farewell-address-trump-oligarchy-america?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I think that one of the most clear headed and concise analysis of the state of politics in recent times.
    And yet he was good with all of that when he thought it was on his side.
    "no president should be immune from prosecution for crimes committed while in office.."

    That a was bonkers decision by Supreme Court only a few months ago, so you can hardly expected Biden to be able to move on that one.

    It's a good summary but sadly at least 50% of US voters don't give a shit as long as eggs and Mc Donalds are falling in price.
    If youre on the breadline and living in a trailer park food prices are more important then abstract concepts.

    It;s a phenomenon across the west that our politicians spend too much time forgetting their citizens interests and then get surprised when the citizens revolt.
    You'd have a point, except Trump, Musk and the bad people of the GOP haven't just forgotten about their citizens' interests; they don't care. They're narcissists.
    Trump is certainly a narcissist and wont deliver half the things he promises. But the Democrats arent much better, theyve ignored the day to day issues of their core voters and have lost them. It's the same with Labour in the UK.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,888
    Starmer's in Kyiv.

    About time. It's not as if Ukraine/Russia is one of the biggest threats to the UK atm...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688

    Starmer's in Kyiv.

    About time. It's not as if Ukraine/Russia is one of the biggest threats to the UK atm...

    Grandstanding.

    It's more about he needs the airmiles to get upgraded to a gold card.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617
    If the Israel-Gaza deal has fallen through, then it's probably really bad news. Right now, with the Biden administration's strength of designing deals and Trump's strength of getting stuff over the line in tandem, US foreign policy/influence is probably about as strong as it's going to get. So if it falls apart now I just can't see how it all ends.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,888

    Starmer's in Kyiv.

    About time. It's not as if Ukraine/Russia is one of the biggest threats to the UK atm...

    Grandstanding.

    It's more about he needs the airmiles to get upgraded to a gold card.
    I'm sorry, but calling it 'grandstanding' before anything is announced is b/s. Let's see what's announced.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580
    The Tory attacks are clearly having some impact, otherwise Labour wouldn't now be polling below Brown 2010 levels in most polls.

    However most of the leakage from Labour has been to Reform, the LDs and Greens as voters who rejected the Tory government last July and now reject the Labour government too look elsewhere for a protest vote
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966
    Sandpit said:

    Economic growth looking about as good as New Glenn’s first stage right now.

    You mean they deliberately reduced the performance of the UK economy to increase reliability, for an initial test?

    Interesting. That argues a level of thinking and control that no UK government has ever shown.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Rachel Reeves is today urged to tell Britain's regulators and quangos to 'get out of the way' as she asks for their help in reviving Britain's stuttering economic growth.

    Ministers asked them to offer suggestions in the wake of last year's Budget, which triggered a sharp fall in business confidence.

    However, they are said to be underwhelmed by the proposals so far, which appear to involve the bodies continuing to fulfil existing roles.


    No shit :smile:

    I wish her well but she needs to do more than just tell them. She also needs to focus her fire on Natural England, a bar to growth if ever there was one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-desperate-rachel-reeves-turns-to-britain-s-regulators/ar-AA1xgTCE?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=1ff51e0c0ad8448aaad16a5cf15ea964&ei=15

    Rachel from accounts belatedly realising that the UK needs a Department of Government Efficiency.

    Oh, and that doesn’t mean employing 500 McKinsey staff to produce a 3,000 page report in 2027, it means doing it the American way and getting a couple of maverick business types in to cut out whole swathes of the standing bureaucracy and repealing the legislation that supports them.

    Governments of all stripes have been the same since Thatcher, always talking about making efficiencies but overseeing a constant rise in the cost of government.
    The only thing Musk has found to cut so far is his target of cutting $2trn, down to $1trn after a few weeks. I have such faith in this genius that I am sure he will be announcing another $1trn cut in his target sooner rather than later.

    The maverick business types are there to plunder what they can from the federal budget, nothing more and this is blatantly obvious.
    It's worth quoting Bidens final presidential address to the nation:

    “Today, an oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme wealth, power and influence that literally threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms, and a fair shot for everyone to get ahead,” Biden said.

    The president outlined some of his most pressing concerns, including what he described as a “crumbling” free press, the outsized influence of the military-industrial complex, rising disinformation, and the need to remove dark money from politics. He also called for constitutional amendments to ensure presidential accountability, arguing that no president should be immune from prosecution for crimes committed while in office..

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/15/joe-biden-farewell-address-trump-oligarchy-america?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I think that one of the most clear headed and concise analysis of the state of politics in recent times.
    And yet he was good with all of that when he thought it was on his side.
    Same as all the Democrat Senators yesterday asking Pam Bondi if she thinks it’s bad to politicise the DOJ, as if the DOJ under Biden hasn’t been the most politicised in its history.
    If I want to know what Fox News and OANN are saying, Sandpit, I can go look at them. You don't need to come here to parrot them.
  • Interesting that the Mail and Express both lead on the crisis in the NHS. Caused by 14 years of Tory government, or 6 months of Labour?

    Good morning

    25 years of labour here in Wales

    The NHS is devolved in Wales and Scotland
    And funded from Westminster.
    Wales and Scotland get more per capita than England due to the Barnett formula and it is how they chose to spend it that is the problem
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489

    Sandpit said:

    Economic growth looking about as good as New Glenn’s first stage right now.

    You mean they deliberately reduced the performance of the UK economy to increase reliability, for an initial test?

    Interesting. That argues a level of thinking and control that no UK government has ever shown.
    More like it struggled to lose enough dead weight to get off the ground, and is now likely in a million pieces at the bottom of the ocean.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688

    Starmer's in Kyiv.

    About time. It's not as if Ukraine/Russia is one of the biggest threats to the UK atm...

    Grandstanding.

    It's more about he needs the airmiles to get upgraded to a gold card.
    I'm sorry, but calling it 'grandstanding' before anything is announced is b/s. Let's see what's announced.
    Well hasnt he said he's signing a 100 year defence contract with Ukraine ? That sounds pretty meaningless to me. What Eastern Europe or the UK look like in a centruty's time is anybody's guess. Ukraine's next door neighbour could be China.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906
    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Badenoch is set to do a big speech where she fesses up to some of the Tories' mistakes in government.

    A sensible first step, I think.

    One of the items is essentially admitting they lied about having any plans for what would happen after Brexit.

    Suspect it will be more "we haven't made Communism work" than a "we really mucked up with Brexit" reflection.
    No doubt.

    But the logic of the admission, as @algarkirk points out, rather cuts against that: ..These matters are so important and so basic that it is hard to see how, with the overwhelming policy resource available to the state, anyone could fail to spot these gaps and contradictions in advance. So it is not just incompetence...
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