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How to make politics better, more lawyers getting involved – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,907
    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starlink really is incredible. Currently hiding out in a bothy near Ben Alder following the catastrophic failure of my rogue lynx re-introduction programme and I can still post nonsense to PB.

    Had it two years now. We were rather forced onto it when BAFTA stopped sending screeners and made the system downloads only. Previously it could take 4 or 5 hours for Wifey to download one movie - trying to get through the full roster ahead of voting was just impossible. Now? Seconds. (That said, The Brutalist might take a full minute...)

    Starlink reminds me of other American tech stories. Satellite internet existed before, and quite a few people used it (my French neighbour was looking into Orange satellite broadband about a decade ago) but it was expensive and not commoditised. US tech comes along and does what it does: takes an existing technology - often pioneered in Europe, makes it more user friendly, scales it up massively thanks to bottomless pools of investment dollars, and achieves world dominance.

    It's the story of the iPhone, Amazon marketplace, Facebook, Uber, AirBnb. The last is particularly annoying - private holiday letting has been a thing in Europe for decades but AirBnB made it seem like a new innovation.

    It's the advantage you get from having deeper pockets than your competitors, a huge domestic market to launch in, and the ambition to go big.
    Don’t forget the other ingredient - that acceptance of failure - the social stigma and financial/legal consequences in the US of setting up a business, trying something new and failing are recoverable and “normal” whereas there seems to be a very different attitude to it in the UK and I guess the rest of Europe.
    I'd say the only stigma to failing with a business is if you go bust leaving lots of people out of pocket. Otherwise it's fine and you'll be welcome to keep showing your face.
    The social stigma that can never be shed in the USA is being poor.
    Having been poor is no problem at all, though.
    As long as you become rich.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol, this is hilarious:

    ICC rules require member nations to have a women’s team, but ICC members are reported to believe that allowing the men’s team to compete will help them influence the Taliban for good.

    This is one of those "I have to make myself believe that in order to justify what I'm doing" things.

    Look at all these sports people taking the Saudi $$$. I've heard some right old tripe there.
    WWE are taking the Royal Rumble there in January 2026. One of their main PPV's. They have been there before but this is a step up.

    They had been talking of stopping going there after the change at the top.

    Barry Hearn wants to take the Greatest Show on Earth, the World Darts Championships there, as long as they can do a deal on allowing alcohol in the venue. For the players more than the spectators of course.
    Christ, thought you were talking about Kabul for a second there :D.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol, this is hilarious:

    ICC rules require member nations to have a women’s team, but ICC members are reported to believe that allowing the men’s team to compete will help them influence the Taliban for good.

    This is one of those "I have to make myself believe that in order to justify what I'm doing" things.

    Look at all these sports people taking the Saudi $$$. I've heard some right old tripe there.
    WWE are taking the Royal Rumble there in January 2026. One of their main PPV's. They have been there before but this is a step up.

    They had been talking of stopping going there after the change at the top.

    Barry Hearn wants to take the Greatest Show on Earth, the World Darts Championships there, as long as they can do a deal on allowing alcohol in the venue. For the players more than the spectators of course.
    Christ, thought you were talking about Kabul for a second there :D.
    LOL, no Riyadh :smiley:
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524
    edited January 10
    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starlink really is incredible. Currently hiding out in a bothy near Ben Alder following the catastrophic failure of my rogue lynx re-introduction programme and I can still post nonsense to PB.

    Had it two years now. We were rather forced onto it when BAFTA stopped sending screeners and made the system downloads only. Previously it could take 4 or 5 hours for Wifey to download one movie - trying to get through the full roster ahead of voting was just impossible. Now? Seconds. (That said, The Brutalist might take a full minute...)

    Starlink reminds me of other American tech stories. Satellite internet existed before, and quite a few people used it (my French neighbour was looking into Orange satellite broadband about a decade ago) but it was expensive and not commoditised. US tech comes along and does what it does: takes an existing technology - often pioneered in Europe, makes it more user friendly, scales it up massively thanks to bottomless pools of investment dollars, and achieves world dominance.

    It's the story of the iPhone, Amazon marketplace, Facebook, Uber, AirBnb. The last is particularly annoying - private holiday letting has been a thing in Europe for decades but AirBnB made it seem like a new innovation.

    It's the advantage you get from having deeper pockets than your competitors, a huge domestic market to launch in, and the ambition to go big.
    Don’t forget the other ingredient - that acceptance of failure - the social stigma and financial/legal consequences in the US of setting up a business, trying something new and failing are recoverable and “normal” whereas there seems to be a very different attitude to it in the UK and I guess the rest of Europe.
    I'd say the only stigma to failing with a business is if you go bust leaving lots of people out of pocket. Otherwise it's fine and you'll be welcome to keep showing your face.
    The social stigma that can never be shed in the USA is being poor.
    Having been poor is no problem at all, though.
    As long as you become rich.
    One of the great American myths is of social mobility. Log cabin to white House etc.

    It still isn't impossible, but America has lower social mobility now than many European countries, including the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index

    There's an interesting piece in Vonneguts "Slaughterhouse 5" where a renegade US nazi collaborator speaks on this, arguing that because of the myth of Social Mobility in America being poor is shameful and a personal failure in a way that Europeans do not experience. Europeans blame being poor more often on social and class circumstances.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,505
    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starlink really is incredible. Currently hiding out in a bothy near Ben Alder following the catastrophic failure of my rogue lynx re-introduction programme and I can still post nonsense to PB.

    Had it two years now. We were rather forced onto it when BAFTA stopped sending screeners and made the system downloads only. Previously it could take 4 or 5 hours for Wifey to download one movie - trying to get through the full roster ahead of voting was just impossible. Now? Seconds. (That said, The Brutalist might take a full minute...)

    Starlink reminds me of other American tech stories. Satellite internet existed before, and quite a few people used it (my French neighbour was looking into Orange satellite broadband about a decade ago) but it was expensive and not commoditised. US tech comes along and does what it does: takes an existing technology - often pioneered in Europe, makes it more user friendly, scales it up massively thanks to bottomless pools of investment dollars, and achieves world dominance.

    It's the story of the iPhone, Amazon marketplace, Facebook, Uber, AirBnb. The last is particularly annoying - private holiday letting has been a thing in Europe for decades but AirBnB made it seem like a new innovation.

    It's the advantage you get from having deeper pockets than your competitors, a huge domestic market to launch in, and the ambition to go big.
    Don’t forget the other ingredient - that acceptance of failure - the social stigma and financial/legal consequences in the US of setting up a business, trying something new and failing are recoverable and “normal” whereas there seems to be a very different attitude to it in the UK and I guess the rest of Europe.
    I'd say the only stigma to failing with a business is if you go bust leaving lots of people out of pocket. Otherwise it's fine and you'll be welcome to keep showing your face.
    The social stigma that can never be shed in the USA is being poor.
    Having been poor is no problem at all, though.
    As long as you become rich.
    Or having been born into wealth, but pretending to be self-made.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171
    Foxy said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Isn't it mostly that we are adjusting to the norm of real positive gilt and interest rates? As indeed are other countries, hence the cost of debt goes up and up?

    These have effectively been negative since the GFC, with a sea of cheap money washing around keeping zombie debtors afloat.
    Yes we're coming off a strong drug (QE and low interest rates) we were on for well over a decade after the GFC. It was an 'upper' and we took it for a long time so there's no avoiding some pain now. This has sweet FA to do with who's in government.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,358
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol, this is hilarious:

    ICC rules require member nations to have a women’s team, but ICC members are reported to believe that allowing the men’s team to compete will help them influence the Taliban for good.

    This is one of those "I have to make myself believe that in order to justify what I'm doing" things.

    Look at all these sports people taking the Saudi $$$. I've heard some right old tripe there.
    WWE are taking the Royal Rumble there in January 2026. One of their main PPV's. They have been there before but this is a step up.

    They had been talking of stopping going there after the change at the top.

    Barry Hearn wants to take the Greatest Show on Earth, the World Darts Championships there, as long as they can do a deal on allowing alcohol in the venue. For the players more than the spectators of course.
    Be intriguing to know how that conversation goes:

    Supreme Cleric: God forbids it
    Sports Minister: But its the darts.....
    Home Secretary: Its been settled policy here for decades and is a key part of our culture
    Sports Minister: But its Luke Littler.....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,713
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starlink really is incredible. Currently hiding out in a bothy near Ben Alder following the catastrophic failure of my rogue lynx re-introduction programme and I can still post nonsense to PB.

    Had it two years now. We were rather forced onto it when BAFTA stopped sending screeners and made the system downloads only. Previously it could take 4 or 5 hours for Wifey to download one movie - trying to get through the full roster ahead of voting was just impossible. Now? Seconds. (That said, The Brutalist might take a full minute...)

    Starlink reminds me of other American tech stories. Satellite internet existed before, and quite a few people used it (my French neighbour was looking into Orange satellite broadband about a decade ago) but it was expensive and not commoditised. US tech comes along and does what it does: takes an existing technology - often pioneered in Europe, makes it more user friendly, scales it up massively thanks to bottomless pools of investment dollars, and achieves world dominance.

    It's the story of the iPhone, Amazon marketplace, Facebook, Uber, AirBnb. The last is particularly annoying - private holiday letting has been a thing in Europe for decades but AirBnB made it seem like a new innovation.

    It's the advantage you get from having deeper pockets than your competitors, a huge domestic market to launch in, and the ambition to go big.
    Don’t forget the other ingredient - that acceptance of failure - the social stigma and financial/legal consequences in the US of setting up a business, trying something new and failing are recoverable and “normal” whereas there seems to be a very different attitude to it in the UK and I guess the rest of Europe.
    I'd say the only stigma to failing with a business is if you go bust leaving lots of people out of pocket. Otherwise it's fine and you'll be welcome to keep showing your face.
    The social stigma that can never be shed in the USA is being poor.
    Having been poor is no problem at all, though.
    As long as you become rich.
    One of the great American myths is of social mobility. Log cabin to white House etc.

    It still isn't impossible, but America has lower social mobility now than many European countries, including the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index

    There's an interesting piece in Vonneguts "Slaughterhouse 5" where a renegade US nazi collaborator speaks on this, arguing that because of the myth of Social Mobility in America being poor is shameful and a personal failure in a way that Europeans do not experience. Europeans blame being poor more often on social and class circumstances.
    A friend who lives in Alabama says that one reason for the Lost Cause myth is that people identify very closely with their ancestors, out there. They persuade themselves that slaves were treated just like family, and that slaves willingly fought for the Confederacy. They don't want to see slave ownership as morally wrong.

    But, far, far worse, is the knowledge that one's ancestors were *too poor* to own slaves.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    Selebian said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/jan/10/lisa-nandy-rejects-calls-england-boycott-afghanistan-cricket-match

    England should be allowed to play next month’s cricket match against Afghanistan, the culture and sport secretary has said, despite calls for a boycott over the Taliban government’s treatment of women.

    Lisa Nandy backed a decision by the England and Wales Cricket Board (ECB) to allow the game to go ahead, saying on Friday that cancelling it would “deny sports fans the opportunity that they love”.

    I'd support a boycott led by the team or governing body but not one led by the government. The sports secretary should generally support whatever decision they make.
    I agree with that.

    There seems to be a belief among many that boycotting a single match will have profound political consequences. It won't.

    Almost all sporting and other cultural and moral boycotts have been failures. The only one anyone can point to as a success - and the only one anyone ever does point to - is South Africa. But that took decades to work, was (eventually) comprehensive across all sports, and when change did finally come, it was driven much more by external changes to the world and by the difficulty of maintaining apartheid internally alongside order; sporting sanctions did play a part in the thinking of both government and (white) electorate but while a consideration, it was very much secondary.

    Beyond that? How's the (comprehensive) sporting sanctioning of Russia going? How did any other one-off gesture boycott go? Anyone remember a previous cricket world up where England didn't play Zimbabwe?

    In reality, few people will notice and far fewer still, who matter, will care. The zealots and bigots of the Taliban are not going to have a sudden conversion to the cause of Western rights because of a game of cricket. Which they won by default and may advance further in the tournament as a result. To the extent that they care about cricket, they probably dislike it as trivial and ungodly. However, even theocrats understand bread and circuses.

    In reality, the ICC should suspend Afghanistan under their own rules. That is the level at which pressure should be applied, and at which officials should be called out.
    Agree with the last sentence. There's a world in which a group of teams forces the ICC to apply their own rules (the big cricket playing nations boycotting the tournament unless the ICC moves). But I don't think we live in that world :disappointed:
    England, Australia, and South Africa are in the group with Afghanistan. Unless all three teams are willing to boycott the tournament as a whole, it’s not happening. If only two of the three stand aside, the other wins the group almost by default.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,059
    edited January 10

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Good morning

    It seems it has worsened due to Trump's imminent inauguration with his inflationary policies pressurising interest rates to stay high, and this is being reflected in the bond markets but unfortunately the anti jobs, growth, budget by Reeves has intensified the problem for her and all of us in the UK

    And she chooses this time of crisis to run off to China, inviting criticism not least from Ed Davey this morning saying the economy is flying blind with the Chancellor and BOE Governor abroad

    And to add to our woes British gas storage levels are 'concerningly low'

    https://news.sky.com/story/britains-gas-storage-levels-concerningly-low-after-cold-snap-says-owner-of-british-gas-13286305
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,470

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Good morning

    It seems it has worsened due to Trump's imminent inauguration with his inflationary policies pressurising interest rates to stay high, and this is being reflected in the bond markets but unfortunately the anti jobs, growth, budget by Reeves has intensified the problem for her and all of us in the UK

    And she chooses this time of crisis to run off to China, inviting criticism not least from Ed Davey this morning saying the economy is flying blind with the Chancellor and BOE Governor abroad

    And to add to our woes British gas storage levels are 'concerningly low'

    https://news.sky.com/story/britains-gas-storage-levels-concerningly-low-after-cold-snap-says-owner-of-british-gas-13286305
    It is patent rubbish to save the economy is flying blind because Reeves isn't actually physically in her office at No.11 for the next two days or so. They have mobile phones in China.

    Davey should know better.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,470
    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starlink really is incredible. Currently hiding out in a bothy near Ben Alder following the catastrophic failure of my rogue lynx re-introduction programme and I can still post nonsense to PB.

    Had it two years now. We were rather forced onto it when BAFTA stopped sending screeners and made the system downloads only. Previously it could take 4 or 5 hours for Wifey to download one movie - trying to get through the full roster ahead of voting was just impossible. Now? Seconds. (That said, The Brutalist might take a full minute...)

    Starlink reminds me of other American tech stories. Satellite internet existed before, and quite a few people used it (my French neighbour was looking into Orange satellite broadband about a decade ago) but it was expensive and not commoditised. US tech comes along and does what it does: takes an existing technology - often pioneered in Europe, makes it more user friendly, scales it up massively thanks to bottomless pools of investment dollars, and achieves world dominance.

    It's the story of the iPhone, Amazon marketplace, Facebook, Uber, AirBnb. The last is particularly annoying - private holiday letting has been a thing in Europe for decades but AirBnB made it seem like a new innovation.

    It's the advantage you get from having deeper pockets than your competitors, a huge domestic market to launch in, and the ambition to go big.
    Don’t forget the other ingredient - that acceptance of failure - the social stigma and financial/legal consequences in the US of setting up a business, trying something new and failing are recoverable and “normal” whereas there seems to be a very different attitude to it in the UK and I guess the rest of Europe.
    I'd say the only stigma to failing with a business is if you go bust leaving lots of people out of pocket. Otherwise it's fine and you'll be welcome to keep showing your face.
    The social stigma that can never be shed in the USA is being poor.
    Having been poor is no problem at all, though.
    As long as you become rich.
    One of the great American myths is of social mobility. Log cabin to white House etc.

    It still isn't impossible, but America has lower social mobility now than many European countries, including the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index

    There's an interesting piece in Vonneguts "Slaughterhouse 5" where a renegade US nazi collaborator speaks on this, arguing that because of the myth of Social Mobility in America being poor is shameful and a personal failure in a way that Europeans do not experience. Europeans blame being poor more often on social and class circumstances.
    A friend who lives in Alabama says that one reason for the Lost Cause myth is that people identify very closely with their ancestors, out there. They persuade themselves that slaves were treated just like family, and that slaves willingly fought for the Confederacy. They don't want to see slave ownership as morally wrong.

    But, far, far worse, is the knowledge that one's ancestors were *too poor* to own slaves.
    Who was the last log cabin to White House person?

    Clinton maybe? Single mother who was a nurse, but not exactly a log cabin.

  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol, this is hilarious:

    ICC rules require member nations to have a women’s team, but ICC members are reported to believe that allowing the men’s team to compete will help them influence the Taliban for good.

    This is one of those "I have to make myself believe that in order to justify what I'm doing" things.

    Look at all these sports people taking the Saudi $$$. I've heard some right old tripe there.
    WWE are taking the Royal Rumble there in January 2026. One of their main PPV's. They have been there before but this is a step up.

    They had been talking of stopping going there after the change at the top.

    Barry Hearn wants to take the Greatest Show on Earth, the World Darts Championships there, as long as they can do a deal on allowing alcohol in the venue. For the players more than the spectators of course.
    Be intriguing to know how that conversation goes:

    Supreme Cleric: God forbids it
    Sports Minister: But its the darts.....
    Home Secretary: Its been settled policy here for decades and is a key part of our culture
    Sports Minister: But its Luke Littler.....
    Who's probably the only sober darts player at the moment !!!!
  • kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Isn't it mostly that we are adjusting to the norm of real positive gilt and interest rates? As indeed are other countries, hence the cost of debt goes up and up?

    These have effectively been negative since the GFC, with a sea of cheap money washing around keeping zombie debtors afloat.
    Yes we're coming off a strong drug (QE and low interest rates) we were on for well over a decade after the GFC. It was an 'upper' and we took it for a long time so there's no avoiding some pain now. This has sweet FA to do with who's in government.
    With the greatest of respect you would not be saying that if the 'tories' were in government, but it is fair to say the BOE have been a disaster in this respect

    However, when you are in office you own the problem as did the 'tories' with covid
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171
    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol, this is hilarious:

    ICC rules require member nations to have a women’s team, but ICC members are reported to believe that allowing the men’s team to compete will help them influence the Taliban for good.

    This is one of those "I have to make myself believe that in order to justify what I'm doing" things.

    Look at all these sports people taking the Saudi $$$. I've heard some right old tripe there.
    If they'd simply said "We're a bunch of moral cowards", it would at least have had the virtue of honesty.
    Or to be slightly kinder the old "doing what's best for me and my family, the politics is above my paygrade". That covers pretty much everything.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,505

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol, this is hilarious:

    ICC rules require member nations to have a women’s team, but ICC members are reported to believe that allowing the men’s team to compete will help them influence the Taliban for good.

    This is one of those "I have to make myself believe that in order to justify what I'm doing" things.

    Look at all these sports people taking the Saudi $$$. I've heard some right old tripe there.
    WWE are taking the Royal Rumble there in January 2026. One of their main PPV's. They have been there before but this is a step up.

    They had been talking of stopping going there after the change at the top.

    Barry Hearn wants to take the Greatest Show on Earth, the World Darts Championships there, as long as they can do a deal on allowing alcohol in the venue. For the players more than the spectators of course.
    Be intriguing to know how that conversation goes:

    Supreme Cleric: God forbids it
    Sports Minister: But its the darts.....
    Home Secretary: Its been settled policy here for decades and is a key part of our culture
    Sports Minister: But its Luke Littler.....
    Supreme cleric: But he's below the legal drinking age anyway
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,241

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starlink really is incredible. Currently hiding out in a bothy near Ben Alder following the catastrophic failure of my rogue lynx re-introduction programme and I can still post nonsense to PB.

    Had it two years now. We were rather forced onto it when BAFTA stopped sending screeners and made the system downloads only. Previously it could take 4 or 5 hours for Wifey to download one movie - trying to get through the full roster ahead of voting was just impossible. Now? Seconds. (That said, The Brutalist might take a full minute...)

    Starlink reminds me of other American tech stories. Satellite internet existed before, and quite a few people used it (my French neighbour was looking into Orange satellite broadband about a decade ago) but it was expensive and not commoditised. US tech comes along and does what it does: takes an existing technology - often pioneered in Europe, makes it more user friendly, scales it up massively thanks to bottomless pools of investment dollars, and achieves world dominance.

    It's the story of the iPhone, Amazon marketplace, Facebook, Uber, AirBnb. The last is particularly annoying - private holiday letting has been a thing in Europe for decades but AirBnB made it seem like a new innovation.

    It's the advantage you get from having deeper pockets than your competitors, a huge domestic market to launch in, and the ambition to go big.
    Don’t forget the other ingredient - that acceptance of failure - the social stigma and financial/legal consequences in the US of setting up a business, trying something new and failing are recoverable and “normal” whereas there seems to be a very different attitude to it in the UK and I guess the rest of Europe.
    I'd say the only stigma to failing with a business is if you go bust leaving lots of people out of pocket. Otherwise it's fine and you'll be welcome to keep showing your face.
    The social stigma that can never be shed in the USA is being poor.
    Having been poor is no problem at all, though.
    As long as you become rich.
    One of the great American myths is of social mobility. Log cabin to white House etc.

    It still isn't impossible, but America has lower social mobility now than many European countries, including the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index

    There's an interesting piece in Vonneguts "Slaughterhouse 5" where a renegade US nazi collaborator speaks on this, arguing that because of the myth of Social Mobility in America being poor is shameful and a personal failure in a way that Europeans do not experience. Europeans blame being poor more often on social and class circumstances.
    A friend who lives in Alabama says that one reason for the Lost Cause myth is that people identify very closely with their ancestors, out there. They persuade themselves that slaves were treated just like family, and that slaves willingly fought for the Confederacy. They don't want to see slave ownership as morally wrong.

    But, far, far worse, is the knowledge that one's ancestors were *too poor* to own slaves.
    Who was the last log cabin to White House person?

    Clinton maybe? Single mother who was a nurse, but not exactly a log cabin.

    Jimmy Carter's childhood home didn't have running water or electricity until 1938.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,861
    Sandpit said:

    Selebian said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/jan/10/lisa-nandy-rejects-calls-england-boycott-afghanistan-cricket-match

    England should be allowed to play next month’s cricket match against Afghanistan, the culture and sport secretary has said, despite calls for a boycott over the Taliban government’s treatment of women.

    Lisa Nandy backed a decision by the England and Wales Cricket Board (ECB) to allow the game to go ahead, saying on Friday that cancelling it would “deny sports fans the opportunity that they love”.

    I'd support a boycott led by the team or governing body but not one led by the government. The sports secretary should generally support whatever decision they make.
    I agree with that.

    There seems to be a belief among many that boycotting a single match will have profound political consequences. It won't.

    Almost all sporting and other cultural and moral boycotts have been failures. The only one anyone can point to as a success - and the only one anyone ever does point to - is South Africa. But that took decades to work, was (eventually) comprehensive across all sports, and when change did finally come, it was driven much more by external changes to the world and by the difficulty of maintaining apartheid internally alongside order; sporting sanctions did play a part in the thinking of both government and (white) electorate but while a consideration, it was very much secondary.

    Beyond that? How's the (comprehensive) sporting sanctioning of Russia going? How did any other one-off gesture boycott go? Anyone remember a previous cricket world up where England didn't play Zimbabwe?

    In reality, few people will notice and far fewer still, who matter, will care. The zealots and bigots of the Taliban are not going to have a sudden conversion to the cause of Western rights because of a game of cricket. Which they won by default and may advance further in the tournament as a result. To the extent that they care about cricket, they probably dislike it as trivial and ungodly. However, even theocrats understand bread and circuses.

    In reality, the ICC should suspend Afghanistan under their own rules. That is the level at which pressure should be applied, and at which officials should be called out.
    Agree with the last sentence. There's a world in which a group of teams forces the ICC to apply their own rules (the big cricket playing nations boycotting the tournament unless the ICC moves). But I don't think we live in that world :disappointed:
    England, Australia, and South Africa are in the group with Afghanistan. Unless all three teams are willing to boycott the tournament as a whole, it’s not happening. If only two of the three stand aside, the other wins the group almost by default.
    Good afternoon all.

    In apartheid days the South African Government cared about social and sporting isolation; I don't think the top Talibaners do.
    "If the infidels won't play their game with us, so be it! We remain pure and incorruptible!"
    Except, of course, many of them aren't.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,013

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Good morning

    It seems it has worsened due to Trump's imminent inauguration with his inflationary policies pressurising interest rates to stay high, and this is being reflected in the bond markets but unfortunately the anti jobs, growth, budget by Reeves has intensified the problem for her and all of us in the UK

    And she chooses this time of crisis to run off to China, inviting criticism not least from Ed Davey this morning saying the economy is flying blind with the Chancellor and BOE Governor abroad

    And to add to our woes British gas storage levels are 'concerningly low'

    https://news.sky.com/story/britains-gas-storage-levels-concerningly-low-after-cold-snap-says-owner-of-british-gas-13286305
    It is patent rubbish to save the economy is flying blind because Reeves isn't actually physically in her office at No.11 for the next two days or so. They have mobile phones in China.

    Davey should know better.
    This is the usual opposition politician rubbish about a government minister not being allowed to travel/have a break/do anything else at all. I’d have a lot more respect for an opposition politician who says that they’re entitled to do other things and co-ordinate with their team remotely as needed.

    I have lots of criticisms of Rachel Reeves. Lots. I can’t criticise her over this.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starlink really is incredible. Currently hiding out in a bothy near Ben Alder following the catastrophic failure of my rogue lynx re-introduction programme and I can still post nonsense to PB.

    Had it two years now. We were rather forced onto it when BAFTA stopped sending screeners and made the system downloads only. Previously it could take 4 or 5 hours for Wifey to download one movie - trying to get through the full roster ahead of voting was just impossible. Now? Seconds. (That said, The Brutalist might take a full minute...)

    Starlink reminds me of other American tech stories. Satellite internet existed before, and quite a few people used it (my French neighbour was looking into Orange satellite broadband about a decade ago) but it was expensive and not commoditised. US tech comes along and does what it does: takes an existing technology - often pioneered in Europe, makes it more user friendly, scales it up massively thanks to bottomless pools of investment dollars, and achieves world dominance.

    It's the story of the iPhone, Amazon marketplace, Facebook, Uber, AirBnb. The last is particularly annoying - private holiday letting has been a thing in Europe for decades but AirBnB made it seem like a new innovation.

    It's the advantage you get from having deeper pockets than your competitors, a huge domestic market to launch in, and the ambition to go big.
    Don’t forget the other ingredient - that acceptance of failure - the social stigma and financial/legal consequences in the US of setting up a business, trying something new and failing are recoverable and “normal” whereas there seems to be a very different attitude to it in the UK and I guess the rest of Europe.
    I'd say the only stigma to failing with a business is if you go bust leaving lots of people out of pocket. Otherwise it's fine and you'll be welcome to keep showing your face.
    That doesn't seem to be an issue in the USA, judging by the bankruptcy record of the President Elect.

    Though there are significant differences in bankruptcy laws between UK and USA. The US laws are less creditors friendly, and not so long duration.
    Limited liability is an enormous privilege, isn't it. People often forget that when talking about the risk reward calculus for entrepreneurs.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,241

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Good morning

    It seems it has worsened due to Trump's imminent inauguration with his inflationary policies pressurising interest rates to stay high, and this is being reflected in the bond markets but unfortunately the anti jobs, growth, budget by Reeves has intensified the problem for her and all of us in the UK

    And she chooses this time of crisis to run off to China, inviting criticism not least from Ed Davey this morning saying the economy is flying blind with the Chancellor and BOE Governor abroad

    And to add to our woes British gas storage levels are 'concerningly low'

    https://news.sky.com/story/britains-gas-storage-levels-concerningly-low-after-cold-snap-says-owner-of-british-gas-13286305
    It is patent rubbish to save the economy is flying blind because Reeves isn't actually physically in her office at No.11 for the next two days or so. They have mobile phones in China.

    Davey should know better.
    A LibDem playhing politics? Say it ain't so...
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol, this is hilarious:

    ICC rules require member nations to have a women’s team, but ICC members are reported to believe that allowing the men’s team to compete will help them influence the Taliban for good.

    This is one of those "I have to make myself believe that in order to justify what I'm doing" things.

    Look at all these sports people taking the Saudi $$$. I've heard some right old tripe there.
    WWE are taking the Royal Rumble there in January 2026. One of their main PPV's. They have been there before but this is a step up.

    They had been talking of stopping going there after the change at the top.

    Barry Hearn wants to take the Greatest Show on Earth, the World Darts Championships there, as long as they can do a deal on allowing alcohol in the venue. For the players more than the spectators of course.
    Be intriguing to know how that conversation goes:

    Supreme Cleric: God forbids it
    Sports Minister: But its the darts.....
    Home Secretary: Its been settled policy here for decades and is a key part of our culture
    Sports Minister: But its Luke Littler.....
    Supreme cleric: But he's below the legal drinking age anyway
    Also legally he cannot buy the tools of his trade, his darts. Fortunately sponsors are throwing them at him. Not literally, that would be horrible.

    But he turns 18 this month.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145
    edited January 10
    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    Non-contentious post of the day: I absolutely bloody love England in the snow. Took half an hour after school drop-off for a walk across the recreation ground full of happy dogs gambolling through crunchy snow beneath a bright blue sky and through the park full of the icy forms of yesterday's snowmen - boots crunching satisfyingly all the way - then into town for a coffee and a bun, boots struggling slightly for purchase on the icy but beautifully sparkly pavements. I illustrate this not with the Brugellian snowscapes so described, but with the frozen Bridgewater Canal in the centre of town, just to illustrate how parky it is.


    My feet are cold and I have lost a glove.
    I can beat that

    After five years of trying, delayed by war, COVID, more war, then deliberately impossible visa requirement, I have finally made it and

    I AM IN RANGOON

    And it is fucking weird. It’s a dingy handsome not-quite-fascist British colonial Havana. Without the hookers). Yet

    Very odd. I love it. Tho I have only been here 2 hours
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,406
    @Benpointer Competition:

    1. Lab (34%), Con (31%), LD (16%), Reform (31%)
    2. Lab (21%), Con (17%), LD (8%), Reform (16%)
    3. 5
    4. 0
    5. 2
    6. 2
    7. 182
    8. 3.5%
    9. £130.2bn
    10. 2.7%
    11. 2.2%
    12. 1.4%
    13 . 124
    14. Aus 4, Eng 0
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol, this is hilarious:

    ICC rules require member nations to have a women’s team, but ICC members are reported to believe that allowing the men’s team to compete will help them influence the Taliban for good.

    This is one of those "I have to make myself believe that in order to justify what I'm doing" things.

    Look at all these sports people taking the Saudi $$$. I've heard some right old tripe there.
    WWE are taking the Royal Rumble there in January 2026. One of their main PPV's. They have been there before but this is a step up.

    They had been talking of stopping going there after the change at the top.

    Barry Hearn wants to take the Greatest Show on Earth, the World Darts Championships there, as long as they can do a deal on allowing alcohol in the venue. For the players more than the spectators of course.
    Yes the Saudis are buying up world sport. I can't say I like it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,241
    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol, this is hilarious:

    ICC rules require member nations to have a women’s team, but ICC members are reported to believe that allowing the men’s team to compete will help them influence the Taliban for good.

    This is one of those "I have to make myself believe that in order to justify what I'm doing" things.

    Look at all these sports people taking the Saudi $$$. I've heard some right old tripe there.
    WWE are taking the Royal Rumble there in January 2026. One of their main PPV's. They have been there before but this is a step up.

    They had been talking of stopping going there after the change at the top.

    Barry Hearn wants to take the Greatest Show on Earth, the World Darts Championships there, as long as they can do a deal on allowing alcohol in the venue. For the players more than the spectators of course.
    Be intriguing to know how that conversation goes:

    Supreme Cleric: God forbids it
    Sports Minister: But its the darts.....
    Home Secretary: Its been settled policy here for decades and is a key part of our culture
    Sports Minister: But its Luke Littler.....
    Supreme cleric: But he's below the legal drinking age anyway
    Also legally he cannot buy the tools of his trade, his darts. Fortunately sponsors are throwing them at him. Not literally, that would be horrible.
    Though how the media would love "Tungsten Trauma"!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617
    edited January 10
    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol, this is hilarious:

    ICC rules require member nations to have a women’s team, but ICC members are reported to believe that allowing the men’s team to compete will help them influence the Taliban for good.

    This is one of those "I have to make myself believe that in order to justify what I'm doing" things.

    Look at all these sports people taking the Saudi $$$. I've heard some right old tripe there.
    WWE are taking the Royal Rumble there in January 2026. One of their main PPV's. They have been there before but this is a step up.

    They had been talking of stopping going there after the change at the top.

    Barry Hearn wants to take the Greatest Show on Earth, the World Darts Championships there, as long as they can do a deal on allowing alcohol in the venue. For the players more than the spectators of course.
    Be intriguing to know how that conversation goes:

    Supreme Cleric: God forbids it
    Sports Minister: But its the darts.....
    Home Secretary: Its been settled policy here for decades and is a key part of our culture
    Sports Minister: But its Luke Littler.....
    Supreme cleric: But he's below the legal drinking age anyway
    Also legally he cannot buy the tools of his trade, his darts. Fortunately sponsors are throwing them at him. Not literally, that would be horrible.

    But he turns 18 this month.
    Wonder if he can double bubble his pension pot with a junior SIPP max cont and a regular one then :D, obvs with the rest going to Luke Littler Ltd ?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935
    Legal Eagle on Matt Gaetz report: https://youtu.be/7duzY5x1Kq8
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,241
    edited January 10
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    Non-contentious post of the day: I absolutely bloody love England in the snow. Took half an hour after school drop-off for a walk across the recreation ground full of happy dogs gambolling through crunchy snow beneath a bright blue sky and through the park full of the icy forms of yesterday's snowmen - boots crunching satisfyingly all the way - then into town for a coffee and a bun, boots struggling slightly for purchase on the icy but beautifully sparkly pavements. I illustrate this not with the Brugellian snowscapes so described, but with the frozen Bridgewater Canal in the centre of town, just to illustrate how parky it is.


    My feet are cold and I have lost a glove.
    I can beat that

    After five years of trying, delayed by war, COVID, more war, then deliberately impossible visa requirement, I have finally made it and

    I AM IN RANGOON

    And it is fucking weird. It’s a dingy handsome not-quite-fascist British colonial Havana. Without the hookers). Yet

    Very odd. I love it. Tho I have only been here 2 hours
    Well done. I only ever got as far as a visa in my passport.

    We expect to receive choice tidbits...
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 101
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starlink really is incredible. Currently hiding out in a bothy near Ben Alder following the catastrophic failure of my rogue lynx re-introduction programme and I can still post nonsense to PB.

    Had it two years now. We were rather forced onto it when BAFTA stopped sending screeners and made the system downloads only. Previously it could take 4 or 5 hours for Wifey to download one movie - trying to get through the full roster ahead of voting was just impossible. Now? Seconds. (That said, The Brutalist might take a full minute...)

    Starlink reminds me of other American tech stories. Satellite internet existed before, and quite a few people used it (my French neighbour was looking into Orange satellite broadband about a decade ago) but it was expensive and not commoditised. US tech comes along and does what it does: takes an existing technology - often pioneered in Europe, makes it more user friendly, scales it up massively thanks to bottomless pools of investment dollars, and achieves world dominance.

    It's the story of the iPhone, Amazon marketplace, Facebook, Uber, AirBnb. The last is particularly annoying - private holiday letting has been a thing in Europe for decades but AirBnB made it seem like a new innovation.

    It's the advantage you get from having deeper pockets than your competitors, a huge domestic market to launch in, and the ambition to go big.
    Don’t forget the other ingredient - that acceptance of failure - the social stigma and financial/legal consequences in the US of setting up a business, trying something new and failing are recoverable and “normal” whereas there seems to be a very different attitude to it in the UK and I guess the rest of Europe.
    Since Trump has had his fair share of failures, I wonder if it applies to acceptance of political failure too. But he doesn't fail, and any failure is FAKE NEWS. (Alternative facts available)
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,013

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    There’s very little the government can really do at the moment anyway, short of emergency measures that have the risk of causing a greater wobble. Unless things get significantly worse, the fallout will likely come if Reeves loses her fiscal headroom in the Spring, which was small to begin with.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,689

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Good morning

    It seems it has worsened due to Trump's imminent inauguration with his inflationary policies pressurising interest rates to stay high, and this is being reflected in the bond markets but unfortunately the anti jobs, growth, budget by Reeves has intensified the problem for her and all of us in the UK

    And she chooses this time of crisis to run off to China, inviting criticism not least from Ed Davey this morning saying the economy is flying blind with the Chancellor and BOE Governor abroad

    And to add to our woes British gas storage levels are 'concerningly low'

    https://news.sky.com/story/britains-gas-storage-levels-concerningly-low-after-cold-snap-says-owner-of-british-gas-13286305
    It is patent rubbish to save the economy is flying blind because Reeves isn't actually physically in her office at No.11 for the next two days or so. They have mobile phones in China.

    Davey should know better.
    A LibDem playhing politics? Say it ain't so...
    The idea that the Chancellor and the Governor of the BoE are in some way "steering" the economy on an hour by hour basis that requires their physical presence - maybe some kind of Heath Robinson wooden tiller contraption in the basement of Threadneedle Street - is a good one.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,505

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Good morning

    It seems it has worsened due to Trump's imminent inauguration with his inflationary policies pressurising interest rates to stay high, and this is being reflected in the bond markets but unfortunately the anti jobs, growth, budget by Reeves has intensified the problem for her and all of us in the UK

    And she chooses this time of crisis to run off to China, inviting criticism not least from Ed Davey this morning saying the economy is flying blind with the Chancellor and BOE Governor abroad

    And to add to our woes British gas storage levels are 'concerningly low'

    https://news.sky.com/story/britains-gas-storage-levels-concerningly-low-after-cold-snap-says-owner-of-british-gas-13286305
    It is patent rubbish to save the economy is flying blind because Reeves isn't actually physically in her office at No.11 for the next two days or so. They have mobile phones in China.

    Davey should know better.
    A LibDem playhing politics? Say it ain't so...
    I'm always disappointed when "my" Lib Dems do things like this, but then I remember that's how it works. But this is a bit ill-judged given the target market for Lib Dem votes is sensible types who should be able to see through this sort of thing.

    One good thing Davey and his colleagues have done in recent weeks is present a very clear position in opposition to the nonsense coming from Trump and - particularly - Musk. Something the government for pragmatic reasons just isn't able to do. It comes with risks given Musk's love of personal vendettas, but I assume they have reasoned that having Elon flaming you on TwiX isn't a bad look.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,810
    TimS said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Good morning

    It seems it has worsened due to Trump's imminent inauguration with his inflationary policies pressurising interest rates to stay high, and this is being reflected in the bond markets but unfortunately the anti jobs, growth, budget by Reeves has intensified the problem for her and all of us in the UK

    And she chooses this time of crisis to run off to China, inviting criticism not least from Ed Davey this morning saying the economy is flying blind with the Chancellor and BOE Governor abroad

    And to add to our woes British gas storage levels are 'concerningly low'

    https://news.sky.com/story/britains-gas-storage-levels-concerningly-low-after-cold-snap-says-owner-of-british-gas-13286305
    It is patent rubbish to save the economy is flying blind because Reeves isn't actually physically in her office at No.11 for the next two days or so. They have mobile phones in China.

    Davey should know better.
    A LibDem playhing politics? Say it ain't so...
    I'm always disappointed when "my" Lib Dems do things like this, but then I remember that's how it works. But this is a bit ill-judged given the target market for Lib Dem votes is sensible types who should be able to see through this sort of thing.

    One good thing Davey and his colleagues have done in recent weeks is present a very clear position in opposition to the nonsense coming from Trump and - particularly - Musk. Something the government for pragmatic reasons just isn't able to do. It comes with risks given Musk's love of personal vendettas, but I assume they have reasoned that having Elon flaming you on TwiX isn't a bad look.
    You may be overestimating the average Lib Dem voter...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,505

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    Non-contentious post of the day: I absolutely bloody love England in the snow. Took half an hour after school drop-off for a walk across the recreation ground full of happy dogs gambolling through crunchy snow beneath a bright blue sky and through the park full of the icy forms of yesterday's snowmen - boots crunching satisfyingly all the way - then into town for a coffee and a bun, boots struggling slightly for purchase on the icy but beautifully sparkly pavements. I illustrate this not with the Brugellian snowscapes so described, but with the frozen Bridgewater Canal in the centre of town, just to illustrate how parky it is.


    My feet are cold and I have lost a glove.
    I can beat that

    After five years of trying, delayed by war, COVID, more war, then deliberately impossible visa requirement, I have finally made it and

    I AM IN RANGOON

    And it is fucking weird. It’s a dingy handsome not-quite-fascist British colonial Havana. Without the hookers). Yet

    Very odd. I love it. Tho I have only been here 2 hours
    Well done. I only ever got as far as a visa in my passport.

    We expect to receive choice tidbits...
    Need to get a video selfie where that woman did the aerobics with tanks in the background (which I assume was probably staged).
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol, this is hilarious:

    ICC rules require member nations to have a women’s team, but ICC members are reported to believe that allowing the men’s team to compete will help them influence the Taliban for good.

    This is one of those "I have to make myself believe that in order to justify what I'm doing" things.

    Look at all these sports people taking the Saudi $$$. I've heard some right old tripe there.
    WWE are taking the Royal Rumble there in January 2026. One of their main PPV's. They have been there before but this is a step up.

    They had been talking of stopping going there after the change at the top.

    Barry Hearn wants to take the Greatest Show on Earth, the World Darts Championships there, as long as they can do a deal on allowing alcohol in the venue. For the players more than the spectators of course.
    Be intriguing to know how that conversation goes:

    Supreme Cleric: God forbids it
    Sports Minister: But its the darts.....
    Home Secretary: Its been settled policy here for decades and is a key part of our culture
    Sports Minister: But its Luke Littler.....
    Supreme cleric: But he's below the legal drinking age anyway
    Also legally he cannot buy the tools of his trade, his darts. Fortunately sponsors are throwing them at him. Not literally, that would be horrible.

    But he turns 18 this month.
    Wonder if he can double bubble his pension pot with a junior SIPP max cont and a regular one then :D, obvs with the rest going to Luke Littler Ltd ?
    I am sure he would have some very canny financial advisers maxing out whatever tax efficient vehicles he can use. He also has his non darts earnings as well now and will earn alot more this year.

    Does he have to be over 18 to have a Ltd company.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,505

    TimS said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Good morning

    It seems it has worsened due to Trump's imminent inauguration with his inflationary policies pressurising interest rates to stay high, and this is being reflected in the bond markets but unfortunately the anti jobs, growth, budget by Reeves has intensified the problem for her and all of us in the UK

    And she chooses this time of crisis to run off to China, inviting criticism not least from Ed Davey this morning saying the economy is flying blind with the Chancellor and BOE Governor abroad

    And to add to our woes British gas storage levels are 'concerningly low'

    https://news.sky.com/story/britains-gas-storage-levels-concerningly-low-after-cold-snap-says-owner-of-british-gas-13286305
    It is patent rubbish to save the economy is flying blind because Reeves isn't actually physically in her office at No.11 for the next two days or so. They have mobile phones in China.

    Davey should know better.
    A LibDem playhing politics? Say it ain't so...
    I'm always disappointed when "my" Lib Dems do things like this, but then I remember that's how it works. But this is a bit ill-judged given the target market for Lib Dem votes is sensible types who should be able to see through this sort of thing.

    One good thing Davey and his colleagues have done in recent weeks is present a very clear position in opposition to the nonsense coming from Trump and - particularly - Musk. Something the government for pragmatic reasons just isn't able to do. It comes with risks given Musk's love of personal vendettas, but I assume they have reasoned that having Elon flaming you on TwiX isn't a bad look.
    You may be overestimating the average Lib Dem voter...
    Oh, thanks for the original quip. In which case well done Sir Ed, your target voters will be lapping it up.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966
    s

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starlink really is incredible. Currently hiding out in a bothy near Ben Alder following the catastrophic failure of my rogue lynx re-introduction programme and I can still post nonsense to PB.

    Had it two years now. We were rather forced onto it when BAFTA stopped sending screeners and made the system downloads only. Previously it could take 4 or 5 hours for Wifey to download one movie - trying to get through the full roster ahead of voting was just impossible. Now? Seconds. (That said, The Brutalist might take a full minute...)

    Starlink reminds me of other American tech stories. Satellite internet existed before, and quite a few people used it (my French neighbour was looking into Orange satellite broadband about a decade ago) but it was expensive and not commoditised. US tech comes along and does what it does: takes an existing technology - often pioneered in Europe, makes it more user friendly, scales it up massively thanks to bottomless pools of investment dollars, and achieves world dominance.

    It's the story of the iPhone, Amazon marketplace, Facebook, Uber, AirBnb. The last is particularly annoying - private holiday letting has been a thing in Europe for decades but AirBnB made it seem like a new innovation.

    It's the advantage you get from having deeper pockets than your competitors, a huge domestic market to launch in, and the ambition to go big.
    Don’t forget the other ingredient - that acceptance of failure - the social stigma and financial/legal consequences in the US of setting up a business, trying something new and failing are recoverable and “normal” whereas there seems to be a very different attitude to it in the UK and I guess the rest of Europe.
    I'd say the only stigma to failing with a business is if you go bust leaving lots of people out of pocket. Otherwise it's fine and you'll be welcome to keep showing your face.
    The social stigma that can never be shed in the USA is being poor.
    Having been poor is no problem at all, though.
    As long as you become rich.
    One of the great American myths is of social mobility. Log cabin to white House etc.

    It still isn't impossible, but America has lower social mobility now than many European countries, including the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index

    There's an interesting piece in Vonneguts "Slaughterhouse 5" where a renegade US nazi collaborator speaks on this, arguing that because of the myth of Social Mobility in America being poor is shameful and a personal failure in a way that Europeans do not experience. Europeans blame being poor more often on social and class circumstances.
    A friend who lives in Alabama says that one reason for the Lost Cause myth is that people identify very closely with their ancestors, out there. They persuade themselves that slaves were treated just like family, and that slaves willingly fought for the Confederacy. They don't want to see slave ownership as morally wrong.

    But, far, far worse, is the knowledge that one's ancestors were *too poor* to own slaves.
    Who was the last log cabin to White House person?

    Clinton maybe? Single mother who was a nurse, but not exactly a log cabin.

    Jimmy Carter's childhood home didn't have running water or electricity until 1938.
    Nixon’s family were quite poor. Depression era farm failure - moved to California and started a corner store.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,907

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starlink really is incredible. Currently hiding out in a bothy near Ben Alder following the catastrophic failure of my rogue lynx re-introduction programme and I can still post nonsense to PB.

    Had it two years now. We were rather forced onto it when BAFTA stopped sending screeners and made the system downloads only. Previously it could take 4 or 5 hours for Wifey to download one movie - trying to get through the full roster ahead of voting was just impossible. Now? Seconds. (That said, The Brutalist might take a full minute...)

    Starlink reminds me of other American tech stories. Satellite internet existed before, and quite a few people used it (my French neighbour was looking into Orange satellite broadband about a decade ago) but it was expensive and not commoditised. US tech comes along and does what it does: takes an existing technology - often pioneered in Europe, makes it more user friendly, scales it up massively thanks to bottomless pools of investment dollars, and achieves world dominance.

    It's the story of the iPhone, Amazon marketplace, Facebook, Uber, AirBnb. The last is particularly annoying - private holiday letting has been a thing in Europe for decades but AirBnB made it seem like a new innovation.

    It's the advantage you get from having deeper pockets than your competitors, a huge domestic market to launch in, and the ambition to go big.
    Don’t forget the other ingredient - that acceptance of failure - the social stigma and financial/legal consequences in the US of setting up a business, trying something new and failing are recoverable and “normal” whereas there seems to be a very different attitude to it in the UK and I guess the rest of Europe.
    I'd say the only stigma to failing with a business is if you go bust leaving lots of people out of pocket. Otherwise it's fine and you'll be welcome to keep showing your face.
    The social stigma that can never be shed in the USA is being poor.
    Having been poor is no problem at all, though.
    As long as you become rich.
    One of the great American myths is of social mobility. Log cabin to white House etc.

    It still isn't impossible, but America has lower social mobility now than many European countries, including the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index

    There's an interesting piece in Vonneguts "Slaughterhouse 5" where a renegade US nazi collaborator speaks on this, arguing that because of the myth of Social Mobility in America being poor is shameful and a personal failure in a way that Europeans do not experience. Europeans blame being poor more often on social and class circumstances.
    A friend who lives in Alabama says that one reason for the Lost Cause myth is that people identify very closely with their ancestors, out there. They persuade themselves that slaves were treated just like family, and that slaves willingly fought for the Confederacy. They don't want to see slave ownership as morally wrong.

    But, far, far worse, is the knowledge that one's ancestors were *too poor* to own slaves.
    Who was the last log cabin to White House person?

    Clinton maybe? Single mother who was a nurse, but not exactly a log cabin.

    LBJ, if you're taking about being born in genuine poverty.

    Jimmy Carter was born in a house which had no electricity, and an outside toilet. But was relatively well off compared to the sharecroppers in Georgia - his father being a successful local businessman.
    Carter worked as a child, and saved enough money to buy a couple of houses in his teens, which he rented out to poor farmers...
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671

    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol, this is hilarious:

    ICC rules require member nations to have a women’s team, but ICC members are reported to believe that allowing the men’s team to compete will help them influence the Taliban for good.

    This is one of those "I have to make myself believe that in order to justify what I'm doing" things.

    Look at all these sports people taking the Saudi $$$. I've heard some right old tripe there.
    WWE are taking the Royal Rumble there in January 2026. One of their main PPV's. They have been there before but this is a step up.

    They had been talking of stopping going there after the change at the top.

    Barry Hearn wants to take the Greatest Show on Earth, the World Darts Championships there, as long as they can do a deal on allowing alcohol in the venue. For the players more than the spectators of course.
    Be intriguing to know how that conversation goes:

    Supreme Cleric: God forbids it
    Sports Minister: But its the darts.....
    Home Secretary: Its been settled policy here for decades and is a key part of our culture
    Sports Minister: But its Luke Littler.....
    Supreme cleric: But he's below the legal drinking age anyway
    Also legally he cannot buy the tools of his trade, his darts. Fortunately sponsors are throwing them at him. Not literally, that would be horrible.
    Though how the media would love "Tungsten Trauma"!
    They love their alliteration
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    Non-contentious post of the day: I absolutely bloody love England in the snow. Took half an hour after school drop-off for a walk across the recreation ground full of happy dogs gambolling through crunchy snow beneath a bright blue sky and through the park full of the icy forms of yesterday's snowmen - boots crunching satisfyingly all the way - then into town for a coffee and a bun, boots struggling slightly for purchase on the icy but beautifully sparkly pavements. I illustrate this not with the Brugellian snowscapes so described, but with the frozen Bridgewater Canal in the centre of town, just to illustrate how parky it is.


    My feet are cold and I have lost a glove.
    I can beat that

    After five years of trying, delayed by war, COVID, more war, then deliberately impossible visa requirement, I have finally made it and

    I AM IN RANGOON

    And it is fucking weird. It’s a dingy handsome not-quite-fascist British colonial Havana. Without the hookers). Yet

    Very odd. I love it. Tho I have only been here 2 hours
    Well done. I only ever got as far as a visa in my passport.

    We expect to receive choice tidbits...
    Need to get a video selfie where that woman did the aerobics with tanks in the background (which I assume was probably staged).
    It was real.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,762

    s

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starlink really is incredible. Currently hiding out in a bothy near Ben Alder following the catastrophic failure of my rogue lynx re-introduction programme and I can still post nonsense to PB.

    Had it two years now. We were rather forced onto it when BAFTA stopped sending screeners and made the system downloads only. Previously it could take 4 or 5 hours for Wifey to download one movie - trying to get through the full roster ahead of voting was just impossible. Now? Seconds. (That said, The Brutalist might take a full minute...)

    Starlink reminds me of other American tech stories. Satellite internet existed before, and quite a few people used it (my French neighbour was looking into Orange satellite broadband about a decade ago) but it was expensive and not commoditised. US tech comes along and does what it does: takes an existing technology - often pioneered in Europe, makes it more user friendly, scales it up massively thanks to bottomless pools of investment dollars, and achieves world dominance.

    It's the story of the iPhone, Amazon marketplace, Facebook, Uber, AirBnb. The last is particularly annoying - private holiday letting has been a thing in Europe for decades but AirBnB made it seem like a new innovation.

    It's the advantage you get from having deeper pockets than your competitors, a huge domestic market to launch in, and the ambition to go big.
    Don’t forget the other ingredient - that acceptance of failure - the social stigma and financial/legal consequences in the US of setting up a business, trying something new and failing are recoverable and “normal” whereas there seems to be a very different attitude to it in the UK and I guess the rest of Europe.
    I'd say the only stigma to failing with a business is if you go bust leaving lots of people out of pocket. Otherwise it's fine and you'll be welcome to keep showing your face.
    The social stigma that can never be shed in the USA is being poor.
    Having been poor is no problem at all, though.
    As long as you become rich.
    One of the great American myths is of social mobility. Log cabin to white House etc.

    It still isn't impossible, but America has lower social mobility now than many European countries, including the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index

    There's an interesting piece in Vonneguts "Slaughterhouse 5" where a renegade US nazi collaborator speaks on this, arguing that because of the myth of Social Mobility in America being poor is shameful and a personal failure in a way that Europeans do not experience. Europeans blame being poor more often on social and class circumstances.
    A friend who lives in Alabama says that one reason for the Lost Cause myth is that people identify very closely with their ancestors, out there. They persuade themselves that slaves were treated just like family, and that slaves willingly fought for the Confederacy. They don't want to see slave ownership as morally wrong.

    But, far, far worse, is the knowledge that one's ancestors were *too poor* to own slaves.
    Who was the last log cabin to White House person?

    Clinton maybe? Single mother who was a nurse, but not exactly a log cabin.

    Jimmy Carter's childhood home didn't have running water or electricity until 1938.
    Nixon’s family were quite poor. Depression era farm failure - moved to California and started a corner store.
    JFK called Nixon 'the Grocer's son' to his face (according to the Oliver Stone film).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,907
    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starlink really is incredible. Currently hiding out in a bothy near Ben Alder following the catastrophic failure of my rogue lynx re-introduction programme and I can still post nonsense to PB.

    Had it two years now. We were rather forced onto it when BAFTA stopped sending screeners and made the system downloads only. Previously it could take 4 or 5 hours for Wifey to download one movie - trying to get through the full roster ahead of voting was just impossible. Now? Seconds. (That said, The Brutalist might take a full minute...)

    Starlink reminds me of other American tech stories. Satellite internet existed before, and quite a few people used it (my French neighbour was looking into Orange satellite broadband about a decade ago) but it was expensive and not commoditised. US tech comes along and does what it does: takes an existing technology - often pioneered in Europe, makes it more user friendly, scales it up massively thanks to bottomless pools of investment dollars, and achieves world dominance.

    It's the story of the iPhone, Amazon marketplace, Facebook, Uber, AirBnb. The last is particularly annoying - private holiday letting has been a thing in Europe for decades but AirBnB made it seem like a new innovation.

    It's the advantage you get from having deeper pockets than your competitors, a huge domestic market to launch in, and the ambition to go big.
    Don’t forget the other ingredient - that acceptance of failure - the social stigma and financial/legal consequences in the US of setting up a business, trying something new and failing are recoverable and “normal” whereas there seems to be a very different attitude to it in the UK and I guess the rest of Europe.
    I'd say the only stigma to failing with a business is if you go bust leaving lots of people out of pocket. Otherwise it's fine and you'll be welcome to keep showing your face.
    That doesn't seem to be an issue in the USA, judging by the bankruptcy record of the President Elect.

    Though there are significant differences in bankruptcy laws between UK and USA. The US laws are less creditors friendly, and not so long duration.
    Limited liability is an enormous privilege, isn't it. People often forget that when talking about the risk reward calculus for entrepreneurs.
    China recently got rid of limited liability for venture startups.
    If you fail, the debt stays with you.

    Venture cap investment has dropped precipitously, I think.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Isn't it mostly that we are adjusting to the norm of real positive gilt and interest rates? As indeed are other countries, hence the cost of debt goes up and up?

    These have effectively been negative since the GFC, with a sea of cheap money washing around keeping zombie debtors afloat.
    Yes we're coming off a strong drug (QE and low interest rates) we were on for well over a decade after the GFC. It was an 'upper' and we took it for a long time so there's no avoiding some pain now. This has sweet FA to do with who's in government.
    With the greatest of respect you would not be saying that if the 'tories' were in government, but it is fair to say the BOE have been a disaster in this respect

    However, when you are in office you own the problem as did the 'tories' with covid
    Ah but I would (and indeed did when they were). It's a point I've made a few times. The economy's performance over a parliament is mainly down to global factors. The government can impact it but only on the margins - this is true for all polices within our Overton window.

    It's one of the main quirks of democracy. Elections are settled on something governments don't control. So you win or lose them based on luck (how the political cycle gels with the economic one), and whether there's a 'time for a change' feeling afoot, ie how long you've been in.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starlink really is incredible. Currently hiding out in a bothy near Ben Alder following the catastrophic failure of my rogue lynx re-introduction programme and I can still post nonsense to PB.

    Had it two years now. We were rather forced onto it when BAFTA stopped sending screeners and made the system downloads only. Previously it could take 4 or 5 hours for Wifey to download one movie - trying to get through the full roster ahead of voting was just impossible. Now? Seconds. (That said, The Brutalist might take a full minute...)

    Starlink reminds me of other American tech stories. Satellite internet existed before, and quite a few people used it (my French neighbour was looking into Orange satellite broadband about a decade ago) but it was expensive and not commoditised. US tech comes along and does what it does: takes an existing technology - often pioneered in Europe, makes it more user friendly, scales it up massively thanks to bottomless pools of investment dollars, and achieves world dominance.

    It's the story of the iPhone, Amazon marketplace, Facebook, Uber, AirBnb. The last is particularly annoying - private holiday letting has been a thing in Europe for decades but AirBnB made it seem like a new innovation.

    It's the advantage you get from having deeper pockets than your competitors, a huge domestic market to launch in, and the ambition to go big.
    Don’t forget the other ingredient - that acceptance of failure - the social stigma and financial/legal consequences in the US of setting up a business, trying something new and failing are recoverable and “normal” whereas there seems to be a very different attitude to it in the UK and I guess the rest of Europe.
    I'd say the only stigma to failing with a business is if you go bust leaving lots of people out of pocket. Otherwise it's fine and you'll be welcome to keep showing your face.
    The social stigma that can never be shed in the USA is being poor.
    Having been poor is no problem at all, though.
    As long as you become rich.
    One of the great American myths is of social mobility. Log cabin to white House etc.

    It still isn't impossible, but America has lower social mobility now than many European countries, including the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index

    There's an interesting piece in Vonneguts "Slaughterhouse 5" where a renegade US nazi collaborator speaks on this, arguing that because of the myth of Social Mobility in America being poor is shameful and a personal failure in a way that Europeans do not experience. Europeans blame being poor more often on social and class circumstances.
    A friend who lives in Alabama says that one reason for the Lost Cause myth is that people identify very closely with their ancestors, out there. They persuade themselves that slaves were treated just like family, and that slaves willingly fought for the Confederacy. They don't want to see slave ownership as morally wrong.

    But, far, far worse, is the knowledge that one's ancestors were *too poor* to own slaves.
    Who was the last log cabin to White House person?

    Clinton maybe? Single mother who was a nurse, but not exactly a log cabin.

    I will never forget my visit to Thomas Jefferson’s home in Virginia, Monticello. Duriing the guided tour, in a peak moment of Woke-politesse, Jefferson’s slaves were described as “members of the enslaved community”
  • I carry no bag for Liz Truss, she was a disaster at DEFRA - well a relative disaster, not a disaster like the present government. However, I am not surprised by her cease and desist letter. There will be others and challenges in other directions.

    However, this board is always interested in ministerial movements. How about first cabinet minister to resign from this terrible government on a principle other that "how dare you find me out". My nomination would be the DEFRA Secretary Steve Reed who was interviewed on Farming Today this morning.

    Obviously he has never set foot on a farm in his life and was given the job by chance as far as I understand. The day before the budget he was assured there would be no changes to IHT and he did the rounds on that basis. Then, even when he begged they went ahead with that lunacy. This morning he was asked six times whether he endorsed the IHT policy, six times came there back no answer. He sounds pretty pissed off with the daily grind of defending the indefensible. My suspicion is that when the DEFRA budget is further cut in March he will refuse and leave the government.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Isn't it mostly that we are adjusting to the norm of real positive gilt and interest rates? As indeed are other countries, hence the cost of debt goes up and up?

    These have effectively been negative since the GFC, with a sea of cheap money washing around keeping zombie debtors afloat.
    Yes we're coming off a strong drug (QE and low interest rates) we were on for well over a decade after the GFC. It was an 'upper' and we took it for a long time so there's no avoiding some pain now. This has sweet FA to do with who's in government.
    With the greatest of respect you would not be saying that if the 'tories' were in government, but it is fair to say the BOE have been a disaster in this respect

    However, when you are in office you own the problem as did the 'tories' with covid
    Ah but I would (and indeed did when they were). It's a point I've made a few times. The economy's performance over a parliament is mainly down to global factors. The government can impact it but only on the margins - this is true for all polices within our Overton window.

    It's one of the main quirks of democracy. Elections are settled on something governments don't control. So you win or lose them based on luck (how the political cycle gels with the economic one), and whether there's a 'time for a change' feeling afoot, ie how long you've been in.
    Deluded guff.

    The government is in charge and if it has implemented bad policy and left no headroom it has no one else to blame but itself.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,907
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    Non-contentious post of the day: I absolutely bloody love England in the snow. Took half an hour after school drop-off for a walk across the recreation ground full of happy dogs gambolling through crunchy snow beneath a bright blue sky and through the park full of the icy forms of yesterday's snowmen - boots crunching satisfyingly all the way - then into town for a coffee and a bun, boots struggling slightly for purchase on the icy but beautifully sparkly pavements. I illustrate this not with the Brugellian snowscapes so described, but with the frozen Bridgewater Canal in the centre of town, just to illustrate how parky it is.


    My feet are cold and I have lost a glove.
    I can beat that

    After five years of trying, delayed by war, COVID, more war, then deliberately impossible visa requirement, I have finally made it and

    I AM IN RANGOON

    And it is fucking weird. It’s a dingy handsome not-quite-fascist British colonial Havana. Without the hookers). Yet

    Very odd. I love it. Tho I have only been here 2 hours
    But are you going Beyond Rangoon ?
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112495/

    Blimey, John Boorman is 91.
    We're getting old.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,166
    Yes Minister is a documentary, part 327462

    Musk's first act of Government efficiency is to hire dozens of staff...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,482
    Sandpit said:

    The last thing the World needs, is more lawyers.

    😰😰😰😰😰😰

    Honestly, how could you.....
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Isn't it mostly that we are adjusting to the norm of real positive gilt and interest rates? As indeed are other countries, hence the cost of debt goes up and up?

    These have effectively been negative since the GFC, with a sea of cheap money washing around keeping zombie debtors afloat.
    Yes we're coming off a strong drug (QE and low interest rates) we were on for well over a decade after the GFC. It was an 'upper' and we took it for a long time so there's no avoiding some pain now. This has sweet FA to do with who's in government.
    With the greatest of respect you would not be saying that if the 'tories' were in government, but it is fair to say the BOE have been a disaster in this respect

    However, when you are in office you own the problem as did the 'tories' with covid
    Ah but I would (and indeed did when they were). It's a point I've made a few times. The economy's performance over a parliament is mainly down to global factors. The government can impact it but only on the margins - this is true for all polices within our Overton window.

    It's one of the main quirks of democracy. Elections are settled on something governments don't control. So you win or lose them based on luck (how the political cycle gels with the economic one), and whether there's a 'time for a change' feeling afoot, ie how long you've been in.
    I didn't want to really criticise your main point as you are right re the BOE, but maybe I felt a bit mischievous as my wife tells me I am quite good at. !!!!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starlink really is incredible. Currently hiding out in a bothy near Ben Alder following the catastrophic failure of my rogue lynx re-introduction programme and I can still post nonsense to PB.

    Had it two years now. We were rather forced onto it when BAFTA stopped sending screeners and made the system downloads only. Previously it could take 4 or 5 hours for Wifey to download one movie - trying to get through the full roster ahead of voting was just impossible. Now? Seconds. (That said, The Brutalist might take a full minute...)

    Starlink reminds me of other American tech stories. Satellite internet existed before, and quite a few people used it (my French neighbour was looking into Orange satellite broadband about a decade ago) but it was expensive and not commoditised. US tech comes along and does what it does: takes an existing technology - often pioneered in Europe, makes it more user friendly, scales it up massively thanks to bottomless pools of investment dollars, and achieves world dominance.

    It's the story of the iPhone, Amazon marketplace, Facebook, Uber, AirBnb. The last is particularly annoying - private holiday letting has been a thing in Europe for decades but AirBnB made it seem like a new innovation.

    It's the advantage you get from having deeper pockets than your competitors, a huge domestic market to launch in, and the ambition to go big.
    Don’t forget the other ingredient - that acceptance of failure - the social stigma and financial/legal consequences in the US of setting up a business, trying something new and failing are recoverable and “normal” whereas there seems to be a very different attitude to it in the UK and I guess the rest of Europe.
    I'd say the only stigma to failing with a business is if you go bust leaving lots of people out of pocket. Otherwise it's fine and you'll be welcome to keep showing your face.
    The social stigma that can never be shed in the USA is being poor.
    Having been poor is no problem at all, though.
    As long as you become rich.
    One of the great American myths is of social mobility. Log cabin to white House etc.

    It still isn't impossible, but America has lower social mobility now than many European countries, including the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index

    There's an interesting piece in Vonneguts "Slaughterhouse 5" where a renegade US nazi collaborator speaks on this, arguing that because of the myth of Social Mobility in America being poor is shameful and a personal failure in a way that Europeans do not experience. Europeans blame being poor more often on social and class circumstances.
    A friend who lives in Alabama says that one reason for the Lost Cause myth is that people identify very closely with their ancestors, out there. They persuade themselves that slaves were treated just like family, and that slaves willingly fought for the Confederacy. They don't want to see slave ownership as morally wrong.

    But, far, far worse, is the knowledge that one's ancestors were *too poor* to own slaves.
    Who was the last log cabin to White House person?

    Clinton maybe? Single mother who was a nurse, but not exactly a log cabin.

    Probably the most recent one would be Vance (albeit not yet President).

    There is too a generational issue. There was massive expansion of the US middle class and major upward social mobility in the US post war, though flattening out by the Eighties. To a large extent in the UK too, hence the Toolmaker origins of our esteemed PM.

    One of the problems of our Millennial and GenZ'ers is those days are over. The expansion of the white collar middle class is over, caught up by blue collar workers, while there is an increasingly difficult step up to the property wealth of the 1%ers.

    Revolutions happen not when the peasants are impoverished, but rather when the urban white collar class is.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,505

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Isn't it mostly that we are adjusting to the norm of real positive gilt and interest rates? As indeed are other countries, hence the cost of debt goes up and up?

    These have effectively been negative since the GFC, with a sea of cheap money washing around keeping zombie debtors afloat.
    Yes we're coming off a strong drug (QE and low interest rates) we were on for well over a decade after the GFC. It was an 'upper' and we took it for a long time so there's no avoiding some pain now. This has sweet FA to do with who's in government.
    With the greatest of respect you would not be saying that if the 'tories' were in government, but it is fair to say the BOE have been a disaster in this respect

    However, when you are in office you own the problem as did the 'tories' with covid
    Ah but I would (and indeed did when they were). It's a point I've made a few times. The economy's performance over a parliament is mainly down to global factors. The government can impact it but only on the margins - this is true for all polices within our Overton window.

    It's one of the main quirks of democracy. Elections are settled on something governments don't control. So you win or lose them based on luck (how the political cycle gels with the economic one), and whether there's a 'time for a change' feeling afoot, ie how long you've been in.
    Deluded guff.

    The government is in charge and if it has implemented bad policy and left no headroom it has no one else to blame but itself.
    Fiscal headroom is indeed something a government has choices about. It's not just down to global factors.

    Hunt shrank UK fiscal to its smallest in decades in his pre-election budget.

    https://ifs.org.uk/articles/poor-old-jeremy-hunt-maxes-out-his-budget-headroom
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688
    TimS said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Isn't it mostly that we are adjusting to the norm of real positive gilt and interest rates? As indeed are other countries, hence the cost of debt goes up and up?

    These have effectively been negative since the GFC, with a sea of cheap money washing around keeping zombie debtors afloat.
    Yes we're coming off a strong drug (QE and low interest rates) we were on for well over a decade after the GFC. It was an 'upper' and we took it for a long time so there's no avoiding some pain now. This has sweet FA to do with who's in government.
    With the greatest of respect you would not be saying that if the 'tories' were in government, but it is fair to say the BOE have been a disaster in this respect

    However, when you are in office you own the problem as did the 'tories' with covid
    Ah but I would (and indeed did when they were). It's a point I've made a few times. The economy's performance over a parliament is mainly down to global factors. The government can impact it but only on the margins - this is true for all polices within our Overton window.

    It's one of the main quirks of democracy. Elections are settled on something governments don't control. So you win or lose them based on luck (how the political cycle gels with the economic one), and whether there's a 'time for a change' feeling afoot, ie how long you've been in.
    Deluded guff.

    The government is in charge and if it has implemented bad policy and left no headroom it has no one else to blame but itself.
    Fiscal headroom is indeed something a government has choices about. It's not just down to global factors.

    Hunt shrank UK fiscal to its smallest in decades in his pre-election budget.

    https://ifs.org.uk/articles/poor-old-jeremy-hunt-maxes-out-his-budget-headroom
    Yes and that was stupid too, but Reeves appears to have pushed it even lower and not understood what she has done.

    Securonomics my arse.
  • mwadams said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Good morning

    It seems it has worsened due to Trump's imminent inauguration with his inflationary policies pressurising interest rates to stay high, and this is being reflected in the bond markets but unfortunately the anti jobs, growth, budget by Reeves has intensified the problem for her and all of us in the UK

    And she chooses this time of crisis to run off to China, inviting criticism not least from Ed Davey this morning saying the economy is flying blind with the Chancellor and BOE Governor abroad

    And to add to our woes British gas storage levels are 'concerningly low'

    https://news.sky.com/story/britains-gas-storage-levels-concerningly-low-after-cold-snap-says-owner-of-british-gas-13286305
    It is patent rubbish to save the economy is flying blind because Reeves isn't actually physically in her office at No.11 for the next two days or so. They have mobile phones in China.

    Davey should know better.
    A LibDem playhing politics? Say it ain't so...
    The idea that the Chancellor and the Governor of the BoE are in some way "steering" the economy on an hour by hour basis that requires their physical presence - maybe some kind of Heath Robinson wooden tiller contraption in the basement of Threadneedle Street - is a good one.
    But the model of the levers working an elaborate contraption is exactly how the far left and their BBC apologists see the economy. Pull this lever push that knob and all will be perfect, after all the adults are now in charge. In fact the economy is more like a caged animal morose from its enforced captivity. Prodding it here push a stick up its arse there and the economy responds as any animal would respond. The sooner these adults are not in charge the better.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617
    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol, this is hilarious:

    ICC rules require member nations to have a women’s team, but ICC members are reported to believe that allowing the men’s team to compete will help them influence the Taliban for good.

    This is one of those "I have to make myself believe that in order to justify what I'm doing" things.

    Look at all these sports people taking the Saudi $$$. I've heard some right old tripe there.
    WWE are taking the Royal Rumble there in January 2026. One of their main PPV's. They have been there before but this is a step up.

    They had been talking of stopping going there after the change at the top.

    Barry Hearn wants to take the Greatest Show on Earth, the World Darts Championships there, as long as they can do a deal on allowing alcohol in the venue. For the players more than the spectators of course.
    Be intriguing to know how that conversation goes:

    Supreme Cleric: God forbids it
    Sports Minister: But its the darts.....
    Home Secretary: Its been settled policy here for decades and is a key part of our culture
    Sports Minister: But its Luke Littler.....
    Supreme cleric: But he's below the legal drinking age anyway
    Also legally he cannot buy the tools of his trade, his darts. Fortunately sponsors are throwing them at him. Not literally, that would be horrible.

    But he turns 18 this month.
    Wonder if he can double bubble his pension pot with a junior SIPP max cont and a regular one then :D, obvs with the rest going to Luke Littler Ltd ?
    I am sure he would have some very canny financial advisers maxing out whatever tax efficient vehicles he can use. He also has his non darts earnings as well now and will earn alot more this year.

    Does he have to be over 18 to have a Ltd company.
    I think so, but his Dad could set one up.

    Hopefully (For both his sake and the taxman) he's not using Doug Barrowman or someone of his ilk. Plenty of easy enough tax efficiencies for him (Was he in the UK for 90 days last year ?)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    Non-contentious post of the day: I absolutely bloody love England in the snow. Took half an hour after school drop-off for a walk across the recreation ground full of happy dogs gambolling through crunchy snow beneath a bright blue sky and through the park full of the icy forms of yesterday's snowmen - boots crunching satisfyingly all the way - then into town for a coffee and a bun, boots struggling slightly for purchase on the icy but beautifully sparkly pavements. I illustrate this not with the Brugellian snowscapes so described, but with the frozen Bridgewater Canal in the centre of town, just to illustrate how parky it is.


    My feet are cold and I have lost a glove.
    I can beat that

    After five years of trying, delayed by war, COVID, more war, then deliberately impossible visa requirement, I have finally made it and

    I AM IN RANGOON

    And it is fucking weird. It’s a dingy handsome not-quite-fascist British colonial Havana. Without the hookers). Yet

    Very odd. I love it. Tho I have only been here 2 hours
    Well done. I only ever got as far as a visa in my passport.

    We expect to receive choice tidbits...
    So far I can say: mobile phones barely work, it’s really dark (few streetlights and a lot of decaying empty buildings), yet the people seem genuinely super friendly (very very glad to encounter actual tourists) and the bar snacks (chicken skin in chili pepper) are excellent

    I’ve also never seen such a quiet subdued international airport in a large capital city
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,707
    Scott_xP said:

    Yes Minister is a documentary, part 327462

    Musk's first act of Government efficiency is to hire dozens of staff...

    As I believe I pointed out in my Blob article, you can't cure bureaucracy with bureaucracy...

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/09/28/the-blob/
  • Eabhal said:

    glw said:

    While this person may or may not be a murderous idiot, the facts are these - the area was and is a tinderbox. Literally. Super dry forests and scrubland, high temperatures and high wind.

    Which gives you this - https://bsky.app/profile/luckytran.com/post/3lfbnfhqf422m

    It’s like a defective bridge. Yes, the drunk driver in the truck who rammed into the abutment was the immediate cause of the collapse. But it was an accident waiting to happen.

    Yeah you aren't stopping a fire spreading when conditions are like that. Which is why it is so important to properly evaluate risk when permitting building. i.e. Maybe don't live half-way up a mountain surrounded by kindling.
    Choices

    1) don’t live there
    2) clear anything vaguely flammable back a mile. Literally.
    3) build your house completely fireproof.
    We are blaming these fires on climate change and our solutions have involved burning or removing all natural vegetation from the area.
    The thing is most wildfires (particularly in California) are set off by lightning and are a natural part of the ecosystem. In Australia, many of the trees have adapted to survive such fires while simultaneously contributing to them by being highly flammable.

    When those areas recover, they draw much of that carbon back into the new vegetation. Over the long term, the fires don't have much of an impact on the level of carbon in the atmosphere. Allowing these areas to burn periodically is probably the best solution.

    One issue with climate change is if this process is not allowed to happen, with areas not recovering between fires due to drier/warmer/windier weather, or human intervention, and therefore become net contributors. This is one of those tipping points everyone is so worried about.
    I'm afraid, that is simply not true. 85-90 % of all wildfires in the US are caused by human activity - arson, cigarettes, bonfires, camp fires, dodgy equipment.

    https://www.nps.gov/articles/wildfire-causes-and-evaluation.htm

    A natural wildfire might be part of the ecosystem, but arson and the other human activities mentioned are not.

    People here are stuck on the bigger picture (climate change) when they should be looking at the smaller picture.

    The area caught up in the wildfire is, in the scheme of things, pretty small. Someone posted an overlay map onto London. An area that small, that is high risk, should be managed. Preventive measures, clearing away dead shrubs, clearing litter, checking for signs of human fire activity and clamping down hard on it. Outdoor smoke detectors for rapid detection are a thing.

    It's a rich area, I'm sure houses and insurers could pay for better management of these places to reduce risk.

    Wildfires emit, 5-8b tonnes of CO a year (with caveats), compared to 37b tonnes from fossil fuels and cement. If humans are causing such are large number of them deliberately or accidently, then trying to stop that, will in turn help climate change.

    https://ourworldindata.org/wildfires
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,907

    s

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starlink really is incredible. Currently hiding out in a bothy near Ben Alder following the catastrophic failure of my rogue lynx re-introduction programme and I can still post nonsense to PB.

    Had it two years now. We were rather forced onto it when BAFTA stopped sending screeners and made the system downloads only. Previously it could take 4 or 5 hours for Wifey to download one movie - trying to get through the full roster ahead of voting was just impossible. Now? Seconds. (That said, The Brutalist might take a full minute...)

    Starlink reminds me of other American tech stories. Satellite internet existed before, and quite a few people used it (my French neighbour was looking into Orange satellite broadband about a decade ago) but it was expensive and not commoditised. US tech comes along and does what it does: takes an existing technology - often pioneered in Europe, makes it more user friendly, scales it up massively thanks to bottomless pools of investment dollars, and achieves world dominance.

    It's the story of the iPhone, Amazon marketplace, Facebook, Uber, AirBnb. The last is particularly annoying - private holiday letting has been a thing in Europe for decades but AirBnB made it seem like a new innovation.

    It's the advantage you get from having deeper pockets than your competitors, a huge domestic market to launch in, and the ambition to go big.
    Don’t forget the other ingredient - that acceptance of failure - the social stigma and financial/legal consequences in the US of setting up a business, trying something new and failing are recoverable and “normal” whereas there seems to be a very different attitude to it in the UK and I guess the rest of Europe.
    I'd say the only stigma to failing with a business is if you go bust leaving lots of people out of pocket. Otherwise it's fine and you'll be welcome to keep showing your face.
    The social stigma that can never be shed in the USA is being poor.
    Having been poor is no problem at all, though.
    As long as you become rich.
    One of the great American myths is of social mobility. Log cabin to white House etc.

    It still isn't impossible, but America has lower social mobility now than many European countries, including the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index

    There's an interesting piece in Vonneguts "Slaughterhouse 5" where a renegade US nazi collaborator speaks on this, arguing that because of the myth of Social Mobility in America being poor is shameful and a personal failure in a way that Europeans do not experience. Europeans blame being poor more often on social and class circumstances.
    A friend who lives in Alabama says that one reason for the Lost Cause myth is that people identify very closely with their ancestors, out there. They persuade themselves that slaves were treated just like family, and that slaves willingly fought for the Confederacy. They don't want to see slave ownership as morally wrong.

    But, far, far worse, is the knowledge that one's ancestors were *too poor* to own slaves.
    Who was the last log cabin to White House person?

    Clinton maybe? Single mother who was a nurse, but not exactly a log cabin.

    Jimmy Carter's childhood home didn't have running water or electricity until 1938.
    Nixon’s family were quite poor. Depression era farm failure - moved to California and started a corner store.
    JFK called Nixon 'the Grocer's son' to his face (according to the Oliver Stone film).
    The Kennedys called LBJ 'Rufus Cornpone'.
    Probably not to his face.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,013

    TimS said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Isn't it mostly that we are adjusting to the norm of real positive gilt and interest rates? As indeed are other countries, hence the cost of debt goes up and up?

    These have effectively been negative since the GFC, with a sea of cheap money washing around keeping zombie debtors afloat.
    Yes we're coming off a strong drug (QE and low interest rates) we were on for well over a decade after the GFC. It was an 'upper' and we took it for a long time so there's no avoiding some pain now. This has sweet FA to do with who's in government.
    With the greatest of respect you would not be saying that if the 'tories' were in government, but it is fair to say the BOE have been a disaster in this respect

    However, when you are in office you own the problem as did the 'tories' with covid
    Ah but I would (and indeed did when they were). It's a point I've made a few times. The economy's performance over a parliament is mainly down to global factors. The government can impact it but only on the margins - this is true for all polices within our Overton window.

    It's one of the main quirks of democracy. Elections are settled on something governments don't control. So you win or lose them based on luck (how the political cycle gels with the economic one), and whether there's a 'time for a change' feeling afoot, ie how long you've been in.
    Deluded guff.

    The government is in charge and if it has implemented bad policy and left no headroom it has no one else to blame but itself.
    Fiscal headroom is indeed something a government has choices about. It's not just down to global factors.

    Hunt shrank UK fiscal to its smallest in decades in his pre-election budget.

    https://ifs.org.uk/articles/poor-old-jeremy-hunt-maxes-out-his-budget-headroom
    Yes and that was stupid too, but Reeves appears to have pushed it even lower and not understood what she has done.

    Securonomics my arse.
    Well, she made a choice and it is looking increasingly likely that it’s going to backfire. One could at that point certainly lay a charge of naivety at her particularly adding the likely fallout from a Trump presidency into the mix. If as a result it leads to deeper cuts, the Labour Party have not prepared the political ground for them, and the fallout will be big.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Isn't it mostly that we are adjusting to the norm of real positive gilt and interest rates? As indeed are other countries, hence the cost of debt goes up and up?

    These have effectively been negative since the GFC, with a sea of cheap money washing around keeping zombie debtors afloat.
    Yes we're coming off a strong drug (QE and low interest rates) we were on for well over a decade after the GFC. It was an 'upper' and we took it for a long time so there's no avoiding some pain now. This has sweet FA to do with who's in government.
    With the greatest of respect you would not be saying that if the 'tories' were in government, but it is fair to say the BOE have been a disaster in this respect

    However, when you are in office you own the problem as did the 'tories' with covid
    Ah but I would (and indeed did when they were). It's a point I've made a few times. The economy's performance over a parliament is mainly down to global factors. The government can impact it but only on the margins - this is true for all polices within our Overton window.

    It's one of the main quirks of democracy. Elections are settled on something governments don't control. So you win or lose them based on luck (how the political cycle gels with the economic one), and whether there's a 'time for a change' feeling afoot, ie how long you've been in.
    Deluded guff.

    The government is in charge and if it has implemented bad policy and left no headroom it has no one else to blame but itself.
    You're misreading me in a rather noddy and partisan manner.

    Governments do impact the economy and they are answerable for it. But politics being what it is they are also held responsible (or seek to take the credit) for what is due to global factors and this is most of it. I'm not complaining about this, just pointing it out.

    I mean, if growth and prosperity are mainly down to what the government does rather than the macro environment how come we aren't always booming?
  • Labour loses control of Dover after a Lab to Con defection.


    'This defection leaves Dover District Council in no overall control.

    Talk of future defections will concern Labour in Dover.

    Charles Woodgate blamed national Labour for his defection.'

    https://x.com/michaelkeohan/status/1877681009186992488
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,861
    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol, this is hilarious:

    ICC rules require member nations to have a women’s team, but ICC members are reported to believe that allowing the men’s team to compete will help them influence the Taliban for good.

    This is one of those "I have to make myself believe that in order to justify what I'm doing" things.

    Look at all these sports people taking the Saudi $$$. I've heard some right old tripe there.
    WWE are taking the Royal Rumble there in January 2026. One of their main PPV's. They have been there before but this is a step up.

    They had been talking of stopping going there after the change at the top.

    Barry Hearn wants to take the Greatest Show on Earth, the World Darts Championships there, as long as they can do a deal on allowing alcohol in the venue. For the players more than the spectators of course.
    Be intriguing to know how that conversation goes:

    Supreme Cleric: God forbids it
    Sports Minister: But its the darts.....
    Home Secretary: Its been settled policy here for decades and is a key part of our culture
    Sports Minister: But its Luke Littler.....
    Supreme cleric: But he's below the legal drinking age anyway
    Also legally he cannot buy the tools of his trade, his darts. Fortunately sponsors are throwing them at him. Not literally, that would be horrible.

    But he turns 18 this month.
    Wonder if he can double bubble his pension pot with a junior SIPP max cont and a regular one then :D, obvs with the rest going to Luke Littler Ltd ?
    I am sure he would have some very canny financial advisers maxing out whatever tax efficient vehicles he can use. He also has his non darts earnings as well now and will earn alot more this year.

    Does he have to be over 18 to have a Ltd company.
    I think so, but his Dad could set one up.

    Hopefully (For both his sake and the taxman) he's not using Doug Barrowman or someone of his ilk. Plenty of easy enough tax efficiencies for him (Was he in the UK for 90 days last year ?)
    Hasn’t he been at school?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Isn't it mostly that we are adjusting to the norm of real positive gilt and interest rates? As indeed are other countries, hence the cost of debt goes up and up?

    These have effectively been negative since the GFC, with a sea of cheap money washing around keeping zombie debtors afloat.
    Yes we're coming off a strong drug (QE and low interest rates) we were on for well over a decade after the GFC. It was an 'upper' and we took it for a long time so there's no avoiding some pain now. This has sweet FA to do with who's in government.
    With the greatest of respect you would not be saying that if the 'tories' were in government, but it is fair to say the BOE have been a disaster in this respect

    However, when you are in office you own the problem as did the 'tories' with covid
    Ah but I would (and indeed did when they were). It's a point I've made a few times. The economy's performance over a parliament is mainly down to global factors. The government can impact it but only on the margins - this is true for all polices within our Overton window.

    It's one of the main quirks of democracy. Elections are settled on something governments don't control. So you win or lose them based on luck (how the political cycle gels with the economic one), and whether there's a 'time for a change' feeling afoot, ie how long you've been in.
    I didn't want to really criticise your main point as you are right re the BOE, but maybe I felt a bit mischievous as my wife tells me I am quite good at. !!!!
    So you are, BigG, so you are. Although when I said "macro factors" I didn't mean specifically the BoE, I mean how the global economy is getting on. This is the biggest single determinant (by miles) of how we perform.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,133
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    Non-contentious post of the day: I absolutely bloody love England in the snow. Took half an hour after school drop-off for a walk across the recreation ground full of happy dogs gambolling through crunchy snow beneath a bright blue sky and through the park full of the icy forms of yesterday's snowmen - boots crunching satisfyingly all the way - then into town for a coffee and a bun, boots struggling slightly for purchase on the icy but beautifully sparkly pavements. I illustrate this not with the Brugellian snowscapes so described, but with the frozen Bridgewater Canal in the centre of town, just to illustrate how parky it is.


    My feet are cold and I have lost a glove.
    I can beat that

    After five years of trying, delayed by war, COVID, more war, then deliberately impossible visa requirement, I have finally made it and

    I AM IN RANGOON

    And it is fucking weird. It’s a dingy handsome not-quite-fascist British colonial Havana. Without the hookers). Yet

    Very odd. I love it. Tho I have only been here 2 hours
    Noel Philips went there about 10 months ago and made this interesting video about the experience.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIsiqZqPmwM
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,629

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Good morning

    It seems it has worsened due to Trump's imminent inauguration with his inflationary policies pressurising interest rates to stay high, and this is being reflected in the bond markets but unfortunately the anti jobs, growth, budget by Reeves has intensified the problem for her and all of us in the UK

    And she chooses this time of crisis to run off to China, inviting criticism not least from Ed Davey this morning saying the economy is flying blind with the Chancellor and BOE Governor abroad

    And to add to our woes British gas storage levels are 'concerningly low'

    https://news.sky.com/story/britains-gas-storage-levels-concerningly-low-after-cold-snap-says-owner-of-british-gas-13286305
    It is patent rubbish to save the economy is flying blind because Reeves isn't actually physically in her office at No.11 for the next two days or so. They have mobile phones in China.


    Davey should know better.
    If they have their mobile phones in China that’s a massive security risk. Most of the people I know use a dumb burner now when in China
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145
    Burmese purge
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,495
    Why wouldn’t the CoE visit China?
    Silly criticism from Ed Davey.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171
    Nigelb said:

    s

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starlink really is incredible. Currently hiding out in a bothy near Ben Alder following the catastrophic failure of my rogue lynx re-introduction programme and I can still post nonsense to PB.

    Had it two years now. We were rather forced onto it when BAFTA stopped sending screeners and made the system downloads only. Previously it could take 4 or 5 hours for Wifey to download one movie - trying to get through the full roster ahead of voting was just impossible. Now? Seconds. (That said, The Brutalist might take a full minute...)

    Starlink reminds me of other American tech stories. Satellite internet existed before, and quite a few people used it (my French neighbour was looking into Orange satellite broadband about a decade ago) but it was expensive and not commoditised. US tech comes along and does what it does: takes an existing technology - often pioneered in Europe, makes it more user friendly, scales it up massively thanks to bottomless pools of investment dollars, and achieves world dominance.

    It's the story of the iPhone, Amazon marketplace, Facebook, Uber, AirBnb. The last is particularly annoying - private holiday letting has been a thing in Europe for decades but AirBnB made it seem like a new innovation.

    It's the advantage you get from having deeper pockets than your competitors, a huge domestic market to launch in, and the ambition to go big.
    Don’t forget the other ingredient - that acceptance of failure - the social stigma and financial/legal consequences in the US of setting up a business, trying something new and failing are recoverable and “normal” whereas there seems to be a very different attitude to it in the UK and I guess the rest of Europe.
    I'd say the only stigma to failing with a business is if you go bust leaving lots of people out of pocket. Otherwise it's fine and you'll be welcome to keep showing your face.
    The social stigma that can never be shed in the USA is being poor.
    Having been poor is no problem at all, though.
    As long as you become rich.
    One of the great American myths is of social mobility. Log cabin to white House etc.

    It still isn't impossible, but America has lower social mobility now than many European countries, including the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index

    There's an interesting piece in Vonneguts "Slaughterhouse 5" where a renegade US nazi collaborator speaks on this, arguing that because of the myth of Social Mobility in America being poor is shameful and a personal failure in a way that Europeans do not experience. Europeans blame being poor more often on social and class circumstances.
    A friend who lives in Alabama says that one reason for the Lost Cause myth is that people identify very closely with their ancestors, out there. They persuade themselves that slaves were treated just like family, and that slaves willingly fought for the Confederacy. They don't want to see slave ownership as morally wrong.

    But, far, far worse, is the knowledge that one's ancestors were *too poor* to own slaves.
    Who was the last log cabin to White House person?

    Clinton maybe? Single mother who was a nurse, but not exactly a log cabin.

    Jimmy Carter's childhood home didn't have running water or electricity until 1938.
    Nixon’s family were quite poor. Depression era farm failure - moved to California and started a corner store.
    JFK called Nixon 'the Grocer's son' to his face (according to the Oliver Stone film).
    The Kennedys called LBJ 'Rufus Cornpone'.
    Probably not to his face.
    Bunch of snobs, always playing touch football on their own beach with the wind tousling their good hair.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,495
    Allegedly, Mel Gibson’s house burnt down while he was on the Joe Rogan show.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145
    @Nigelb

    My intention is indeed to go Beyond Yangon. I reckon there are some Gazette stories out there

    Eg I am desperate to get to this place: Mawlamyine. Old Moulmein, about 7 gruelling hours by bus south of here. The seaside pagoda of Mawlamyine is where a young Rudyard Kipling sat, enchanted by a winsome Burmese beauty, which turned into one of the greatest poems to emerge from the British Empire

    MANDALAY, by Rudyard Kipling

    1
    By the old Moulmein Pagoda, lookin' lazy at the sea,
    There's a Burma girl a-settin', and I know she thinks o' me;
    For the wind is in the palm-trees, and the temple-bells they say:
    "Come you back, you British soldier; come you back to Mandalay!"


    2
    'Er petticoat was yaller an' 'er little cap was green,
    An' 'er name was Supi-yaw-lat –jes' the same as Theebaw's Queen,
    An' I seed her first a-smokin' of a whackin' white cheroot,
    An' a-wastin' Christian kisses on an 'eathen idol's foot:
    Bloomin' idol made o' mud
    Wot they called the Great Gawd Budd
    Plucky lot she cared for idols when I kissed 'er where she stud!
    On the road to Mandalay...

    3
    When the mist was on the rice-fields an' the sun was droppin' slow,
    She'd git 'er little banjo an' she'd sing "Kulla-lo-lo!
    With 'er arm upon my shoulder an' 'er cheek agin my cheek
    We useter watch the steamers an' the hathis pilin' teak.
    Elephints a-pilin' teak
    In the sludgy, squdgy creek,
    Where the silence 'ung that 'eavy you was 'arf afraid to speak!
    On the road to Mandalay...

    4
    But that's all shove be'ind me–long ago an' fur away
    An' there ain't no 'buses runnin' from the Bank to Mandalay;
    An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells:
    "If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else."
    No! you won't 'eed nothin' else
    But them spicy garlic smells,
    An' the sunshine an' the palm-trees an' the tinkly temple-bells;
    On the road to Mandalay...

    5
    I am sick o' wastin' leather on these gritty pavin'-stones,
    An' the blasted English drizzle wakes the fever in my bones;
    Tho' I walks with fifty 'ousemaids outer Chelsea to the Strand,
    An' they talks a lot o' lovin', but wot do they understand?

    6
    Ship me somewheres east of Suez, where the best is like the worst,
    Where there aren't no Ten Commandments an' a man can raise a thirst;
    For the temple-bells are callin', an' it's there that I would be
    By the old Moulmein Pagoda, looking lazy at the sea…


    At first glance this looks like cheap comic verse. But then you see the skill which Kipling has applied here - on multiple levels

    And some of the lines are immortal and ring terribly true even now
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Isn't it mostly that we are adjusting to the norm of real positive gilt and interest rates? As indeed are other countries, hence the cost of debt goes up and up?

    These have effectively been negative since the GFC, with a sea of cheap money washing around keeping zombie debtors afloat.
    Yes we're coming off a strong drug (QE and low interest rates) we were on for well over a decade after the GFC. It was an 'upper' and we took it for a long time so there's no avoiding some pain now. This has sweet FA to do with who's in government.
    With the greatest of respect you would not be saying that if the 'tories' were in government, but it is fair to say the BOE have been a disaster in this respect

    However, when you are in office you own the problem as did the 'tories' with covid
    Ah but I would (and indeed did when they were). It's a point I've made a few times. The economy's performance over a parliament is mainly down to global factors. The government can impact it but only on the margins - this is true for all polices within our Overton window.

    It's one of the main quirks of democracy. Elections are settled on something governments don't control. So you win or lose them based on luck (how the political cycle gels with the economic one), and whether there's a 'time for a change' feeling afoot, ie how long you've been in.
    Deluded guff.

    The government is in charge and if it has implemented bad policy and left no headroom it has no one else to blame but itself.
    You're misreading me in a rather noddy and partisan manner.

    Governments do impact the economy and they are answerable for it. But politics being what it is they are also held responsible (or seek to take the credit) for what is due to global factors and this is most of it. I'm not complaining about this, just pointing it out.

    I mean, if growth and prosperity are mainly down to what the government does rather than the macro environment how come we aren't always booming?
    Being in government means you are aware that "events" happen and you make provision for them.

  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,406
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Isn't it mostly that we are adjusting to the norm of real positive gilt and interest rates? As indeed are other countries, hence the cost of debt goes up and up?

    These have effectively been negative since the GFC, with a sea of cheap money washing around keeping zombie debtors afloat.
    Yes we're coming off a strong drug (QE and low interest rates) we were on for well over a decade after the GFC. It was an 'upper' and we took it for a long time so there's no avoiding some pain now. This has sweet FA to do with who's in government.
    With the greatest of respect you would not be saying that if the 'tories' were in government, but it is fair to say the BOE have been a disaster in this respect

    However, when you are in office you own the problem as did the 'tories' with covid
    Ah but I would (and indeed did when they were). It's a point I've made a few times. The economy's performance over a parliament is mainly down to global factors. The government can impact it but only on the margins - this is true for all polices within our Overton window.

    It's one of the main quirks of democracy. Elections are settled on something governments don't control. So you win or lose them based on luck (how the political cycle gels with the economic one), and whether there's a 'time for a change' feeling afoot, ie how long you've been in.
    In the short term yes, but in the longer term economic cycles go up and down but some countries grow faster than others, and I think that is due to governments. The UKs relative decline since 2010 vs other countries is because of govt policy.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,482
    viewcode said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Ah, more use of our libel laws as intended. Warms the heart.

    You should read that David Allen Green link in the header.
    I did, partly. I stopped reading it when I got to the bit about Andrew Lilico, a man who thinks it would be cheaper to terraform Mars than Earth (yes, really).

    Then I started reading it again. Although prolix, it is a useful guide on the characteristics of a cease-and-desist letter and I have bookmarked it for future reference.
    His reference to the "infinitely expanding" missing second page is hilarious.

    Truss is batshit insane and really needs a hobby of some kind to occupy her. She has nothing worthwhile to say on anything.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688
    So given this governments run of luck what are the chances we run out of gas and have electricity blackouts ?
  • Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Starlink really is incredible. Currently hiding out in a bothy near Ben Alder following the catastrophic failure of my rogue lynx re-introduction programme and I can still post nonsense to PB.

    Had it two years now. We were rather forced onto it when BAFTA stopped sending screeners and made the system downloads only. Previously it could take 4 or 5 hours for Wifey to download one movie - trying to get through the full roster ahead of voting was just impossible. Now? Seconds. (That said, The Brutalist might take a full minute...)

    Starlink reminds me of other American tech stories. Satellite internet existed before, and quite a few people used it (my French neighbour was looking into Orange satellite broadband about a decade ago) but it was expensive and not commoditised. US tech comes along and does what it does: takes an existing technology - often pioneered in Europe, makes it more user friendly, scales it up massively thanks to bottomless pools of investment dollars, and achieves world dominance.

    It's the story of the iPhone, Amazon marketplace, Facebook, Uber, AirBnb. The last is particularly annoying - private holiday letting has been a thing in Europe for decades but AirBnB made it seem like a new innovation.

    It's the advantage you get from having deeper pockets than your competitors, a huge domestic market to launch in, and the ambition to go big.
    Don’t forget the other ingredient - that acceptance of failure - the social stigma and financial/legal consequences in the US of setting up a business, trying something new and failing are recoverable and “normal” whereas there seems to be a very different attitude to it in the UK and I guess the rest of Europe.
    I'd say the only stigma to failing with a business is if you go bust leaving lots of people out of pocket. Otherwise it's fine and you'll be welcome to keep showing your face.
    The social stigma that can never be shed in the USA is being poor.
    Having been poor is no problem at all, though.
    As long as you become rich.
    One of the great American myths is of social mobility. Log cabin to white House etc.

    It still isn't impossible, but America has lower social mobility now than many European countries, including the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index

    There's an interesting piece in Vonneguts "Slaughterhouse 5" where a renegade US nazi collaborator speaks on this, arguing that because of the myth of Social Mobility in America being poor is shameful and a personal failure in a way that










    Europeans do not experience. Europeans blame being poor more often on social and class circumstances.
    A friend who lives in Alabama says that one reason for the Lost Cause myth is that people identify very closely with their ancestors, out there. They persuade themselves that slaves were treated just like family, and that slaves willingly fought for the Confederacy. They don't want to see slave ownership as morally wrong.

    But, far, far worse, is the knowledge that one's ancestors were *too poor* to own
    slaves.
    Who was the last log cabin to White House person?

    Clinton maybe? Single mother who was a nurse, but not exactly a log cabin.

    Probably the most recent one would be Vance (albeit not yet President).

    There is too a generational issue. There was massive expansion of the US middle class and major upward social mobility in the US post war, though flattening out by the Eighties. To a large extent in the UK too, hence the Toolmaker origins of our esteemed PM.

    One of the problems of our Millennial and GenZ'ers is those days are over. The expansion of the white collar middle class is over, caught up by blue collar workers, while there is an increasingly difficult step up to the property wealth of the 1%ers.

    Revolutions happen not when the peasants are impoverished, but rather when the urban white collar class is.
    Without wanting to bang on about the same thing all the time, this is another area where Varoufakis's Technofeudalism book is so good.

    It's not perfect, but I'm particularly fascinated and re-reading it at the moment because of two things.

    First, it has about the most concise, but dense, account of how the tech firms took advantage of the quantitative easing environment, post-2008;that I've ever read.

    And second, there's a startlingly prescient passage on Elon Musk, the full significance of whose purchase of Twitter, was missed by almost everyone else at the time. I remember hearing a spluttering radio review of the book that Musk's totalising project to integrate the users of social media, the infrastructure of communication - Starlink - and future planetary technology, was a "conspiracy theory". And look at him now - he's the henchman of a social media-driven strongman, who might occupy Greenland partly at his behest.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,554
    edited January 10
    I'm confident that if Reeves had cancelled her trip to China yesterday in response to the hullabaloo, the relevant markets would have found that terribly reassuring and more confident about the future.

    Ed Davey seems to be increasingly jumping on any bandwagon going, however nonsensical it is.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935

    Allegedly, Mel Gibson’s house burnt down while he was on the Joe Rogan show.

    His name is Joe "Fuck Ukraine" Rogan.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol, this is hilarious:

    ICC rules require member nations to have a women’s team, but ICC members are reported to believe that allowing the men’s team to compete will help them influence the Taliban for good.

    This is one of those "I have to make myself believe that in order to justify what I'm doing" things.

    Look at all these sports people taking the Saudi $$$. I've heard some right old tripe there.
    WWE are taking the Royal Rumble there in January 2026. One of their main PPV's. They have been there before but this is a step up.

    They had been talking of stopping going there after the change at the top.

    Barry Hearn wants to take the Greatest Show on Earth, the World Darts Championships there, as long as they can do a deal on allowing alcohol in the venue. For the players more than the spectators of course.
    I’m sure Barry Hearn would like the Saudi money, but unless they can do a deal to put up a big tent in the British embassy compound in Riyadh there’s precisely no chance of playing a pub game somewhere with no pubs.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,095
    edited January 10
    Taz said:



    The Bank of England is driving the UK economy into recession
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHbSmSkIzA

    Richard J Murphy blames the Bank's quantitative tightening for our current woes.

    This is the same genius who reckoned that the bond markets and others were picking on Rachel Reeves the other day.
    Full batshit, that guy. Even John McDonnell cautioned Corbyn against listening to him. "Good on tax policy, but no understanding of economics" was IIRC his assessment.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489

    Allegedly, Mel Gibson’s house burnt down while he was on the Joe Rogan show.

    His name is Joe "Fuck Ukraine" Rogan.
    Except of course that he never said that.

    He said F Joe Biden for announcing more Ukraine aid on the day that the hurricane blew through Florida, while failing to mention the disaster in his own country.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171
    rkrkrk said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Isn't it mostly that we are adjusting to the norm of real positive gilt and interest rates? As indeed are other countries, hence the cost of debt goes up and up?

    These have effectively been negative since the GFC, with a sea of cheap money washing around keeping zombie debtors afloat.
    Yes we're coming off a strong drug (QE and low interest rates) we were on for well over a decade after the GFC. It was an 'upper' and we took it for a long time so there's no avoiding some pain now. This has sweet FA to do with who's in government.
    With the greatest of respect you would not be saying that if the 'tories' were in government, but it is fair to say the BOE have been a disaster in this respect

    However, when you are in office you own the problem as did the 'tories' with covid
    Ah but I would (and indeed did when they were). It's a point I've made a few times. The economy's performance over a parliament is mainly down to global factors. The government can impact it but only on the margins - this is true for all polices within our Overton window.

    It's one of the main quirks of democracy. Elections are settled on something governments don't control. So you win or lose them based on luck (how the political cycle gels with the economic one), and whether there's a 'time for a change' feeling afoot, ie how long you've been in.
    In the short term yes, but in the longer term economic cycles go up and down but some countries grow faster than others, and I think that is due to governments. The UKs relative decline since 2010 vs other countries is because of govt policy.
    Yes. I was talking about economic performance in 'political time' ie the shorter term. Over decades you'll see well governed countries doing better than similar but poorly governed ones. That has to be right.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,482
    tlg86 said:

    Lol, this is hilarious:

    ICC rules require member nations to have a women’s team, but ICC members are reported to believe that allowing the men’s team to compete will help them influence the Taliban for good.

    Oh for God's sake! Why can't they just be honest and say they don't give a stuff about women or their own rules and a man's right to watch a game is more important than anything else. Instead of all this phoniness about influencing the Taliban.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,505
    On topic:

    The hourly fees charged by lawyers in the US have jumped nearly seven per cent in the last year, the fastest rate since the global financial crisis.


    https://x.com/cityam/status/1877715229255119116?s=46
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966
    carnforth said:

    Taz said:



    The Bank of England is driving the UK economy into recession
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHbSmSkIzA

    Richard J Murphy blames the Bank's quantitative tightening for our current woes.

    This is the same genius who reckoned that the bond markets and others were picking on Rachel Reeves the other day.
    Full batshit, that guy. Even John McDonnell cautioned Corbyn against listening to him. "Good on tax policy, but no understanding of economics" was IIRC his assessment.
    Good on Tax Policy?

    He spent ages selling The Tax Gap - which is the conspiracy theory that zillions is owed in taxes. You take the theoretical tax take and compare it to the actual tax take.

    Except he left out all the allowances - including the personal allowance for income tax. And ISAs and Pensions.

    When people pointed this out, he banned them from his blog and deleted their posts.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145
    Ah, ship me somewheres east of Suez, where the best is like the worst
    Where there aren’t no Ten Commandments, and a man can raise a thirst!


    Genius
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Isn't it mostly that we are adjusting to the norm of real positive gilt and interest rates? As indeed are other countries, hence the cost of debt goes up and up?

    These have effectively been negative since the GFC, with a sea of cheap money washing around keeping zombie debtors afloat.
    Yes we're coming off a strong drug (QE and low interest rates) we were on for well over a decade after the GFC. It was an 'upper' and we took it for a long time so there's no avoiding some pain now. This has sweet FA to do with who's in government.
    With the greatest of respect you would not be saying that if the 'tories' were in government, but it is fair to say the BOE have been a disaster in this respect

    However, when you are in office you own the problem as did the 'tories' with covid
    Ah but I would (and indeed did when they were). It's a point I've made a few times. The economy's performance over a parliament is mainly down to global factors. The government can impact it but only on the margins - this is true for all polices within our Overton window.

    It's one of the main quirks of democracy. Elections are settled on something governments don't control. So you win or lose them based on luck (how the political cycle gels with the economic one), and whether there's a 'time for a change' feeling afoot, ie how long you've been in.
    Deluded guff.

    The government is in charge and if it has implemented bad policy and left no headroom it has no one else to blame but itself.
    You're misreading me in a rather noddy and partisan manner.

    Governments do impact the economy and they are answerable for it. But politics being what it is they are also held responsible (or seek to take the credit) for what is due to global factors and this is most of it. I'm not complaining about this, just pointing it out.

    I mean, if growth and prosperity are mainly down to what the government does rather than the macro environment how come we aren't always booming?
    Being in government means you are aware that "events" happen and you make provision for them.
    Well yes, obviously, within reason. I'm not saying otherwise. We seem to be talking at cross purposes.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,495
    edited January 10
    Leon said:

    Ah, ship me somewheres east of Suez, where the best is like the worst
    Where there aren’t no Ten Commandments, and a man can raise a thirst!


    Genius

    You probably post this once every two years on PB.
    I do love Kipling, though.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,241

    So given this governments run of luck what are the chances we run out of gas and have electricity blackouts ?

    ...freezing to death many of the elderly who could no longer pay for the electricity they no longer had.

    I'm wondering when we get the "Crisis? What crisis?" Redux.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,358

    So given this governments run of luck what are the chances we run out of gas and have electricity blackouts ?

    This week? Slim to none - the cold air is being pushed out & temperatures are rising 12 degrees or so.

    Gas reserves are apparently a quarter lower than they were this time last year, so there’s reasonable concern that an extended cold snap later in the winter might be a problem. But equally we’ve got time to get the LNG supply sorted if necessary.

    Actually running out of gas is very unlikely imo, but is very weather dependent.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,495
    I am very glad I locked in my mortgages in December.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,505

    carnforth said:

    Taz said:



    The Bank of England is driving the UK economy into recession
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHbSmSkIzA

    Richard J Murphy blames the Bank's quantitative tightening for our current woes.

    This is the same genius who reckoned that the bond markets and others were picking on Rachel Reeves the other day.
    Full batshit, that guy. Even John McDonnell cautioned Corbyn against listening to him. "Good on tax policy, but no understanding of economics" was IIRC his assessment.
    Good on Tax Policy?

    He spent ages selling The Tax Gap - which is the conspiracy theory that zillions is owed in taxes. You take the theoretical tax take and compare it to the actual tax take.

    Except he left out all the allowances - including the personal allowance for income tax. And ISAs and Pensions.

    When people pointed this out, he banned them from his blog and deleted their posts.
    He is doubtless a very bright man, but he has the confidence and assurance that is a telling symptom of Dunning Kruger. A bit like a Piers Corbyn of tax policy.
  • I'm confident that if Reeves had cancelled her trip to China yesterday in response to the hullabaloo, the relevant markets would have found that terribly reassuring and more confident about the future.

    Ed Davey seems to be increasingly jumping on any bandwagon going, however nonsensical it is.

    He always did. And his kissing Starmer's backside in PMQs is stomach churning.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,013

    I'm confident that if Reeves had cancelled her trip to China yesterday in response to the hullabaloo, the relevant markets would have found that terribly reassuring and more confident about the future.

    Ed Davey seems to be increasingly jumping on any bandwagon going, however nonsensical it is.

    Classic Lib Demmery I’m afraid to say. He’s not the first and won’t be the last.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Isn't it mostly that we are adjusting to the norm of real positive gilt and interest rates? As indeed are other countries, hence the cost of debt goes up and up?

    These have effectively been negative since the GFC, with a sea of cheap money washing around keeping zombie debtors afloat.
    Yes we're coming off a strong drug (QE and low interest rates) we were on for well over a decade after the GFC. It was an 'upper' and we took it for a long time so there's no avoiding some pain now. This has sweet FA to do with who's in government.
    With the greatest of respect you would not be saying that if the 'tories' were in government, but it is fair to say the BOE have been a disaster in this respect

    However, when you are in office you own the problem as did the 'tories' with covid
    Ah but I would (and indeed did when they were). It's a point I've made a few times. The economy's performance over a parliament is mainly down to global factors. The government can impact it but only on the margins - this is true for all polices within our Overton window.

    It's one of the main quirks of democracy. Elections are settled on something governments don't control. So you win or lose them based on luck (how the political cycle gels with the economic one), and whether there's a 'time for a change' feeling afoot, ie how long you've been in.
    Deluded guff.

    The government is in charge and if it has implemented bad policy and left no headroom it has no one else to blame but itself.
    You're misreading me in a rather noddy and partisan manner.

    Governments do impact the economy and they are answerable for it. But politics being what it is they are also held responsible (or seek to take the credit) for what is due to global factors and this is most of it. I'm not complaining about this, just pointing it out.

    I mean, if growth and prosperity are mainly down to what the government does rather than the macro environment how come we aren't always booming?
    I'll think you'll find Labour Government economic woes are of their own making. Conservative ones are down to "circumstances". Gordon Brown and Rachel Reeves crashed the economy, the Conservatives were handicapped by COVID and Ukraine (we don't talk about Brexit).

    Those are the rules.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617

    I am very glad I locked in my mortgages in December.

    Start of the window in October, 3.79 5 yrs for me.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,013

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't understand all this "crisis in the markets" talk especially about gilts.

    The market thinks there's more a little risk in lending to UK than there was a few days/weeks ago and is responding. is that a crisis?

    The crisis would be in the government finances if they couldn't sell debt - but it was 3x subscribed on this week's auction apparently.

    Isn't it mostly that we are adjusting to the norm of real positive gilt and interest rates? As indeed are other countries, hence the cost of debt goes up and up?

    These have effectively been negative since the GFC, with a sea of cheap money washing around keeping zombie debtors afloat.
    Yes we're coming off a strong drug (QE and low interest rates) we were on for well over a decade after the GFC. It was an 'upper' and we took it for a long time so there's no avoiding some pain now. This has sweet FA to do with who's in government.
    With the greatest of respect you would not be saying that if the 'tories' were in government, but it is fair to say the BOE have been a disaster in this respect

    However, when you are in office you own the problem as did the 'tories' with covid
    Ah but I would (and indeed did when they were). It's a point I've made a few times. The economy's performance over a parliament is mainly down to global factors. The government can impact it but only on the margins - this is true for all polices within our Overton window.

    It's one of the main quirks of democracy. Elections are settled on something governments don't control. So you win or lose them based on luck (how the political cycle gels with the economic one), and whether there's a 'time for a change' feeling afoot, ie how long you've been in.
    Deluded guff.

    The government is in charge and if it has implemented bad policy and left no headroom it has no one else to blame but itself.
    You're misreading me in a rather noddy and partisan manner.

    Governments do impact the economy and they are answerable for it. But politics being what it is they are also held responsible (or seek to take the credit) for what is due to global factors and this is most of it. I'm not complaining about this, just pointing it out.

    I mean, if growth and prosperity are mainly down to what the government does rather than the macro environment how come we aren't always booming?
    I'll think you'll find Labour Government economic woes are of their own making. Conservative ones are down to "circumstances". Gordon Brown and Rachel Reeves crashed the economy, the Conservatives were handicapped by COVID and Ukraine (we don't talk about Brexit).

    Those are the rules.
    Both parties do it, let’s not pretend this is unique to either of them. Let’s not forget “this recession, which started in America”…
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,495
    Pulpstar said:

    I am very glad I locked in my mortgages in December.

    Start of the window in October, 3.79 5 yrs for me.
    Actually I locked mine too in October, but they went into effect in December. One 5-year, one 2-year.

    I carried both at floating rates for over a year. 😬
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