Maggie Oliver, the Rochdale whistleblower who quit the force in 2012 to expose police failures in dealing with abuse gangs, told GB News that she was troubled by “unacceptable and inhumane delays” to justice.
A survivor of the Rotherham grooming gangs abuse scandal clashed with the relatives of an abuser outside court following a resentencing, GB News can reveal.
The dramatic altercation took place after two rapists convicted of attacking a girl from the age of 11 had their sentences reduced after a judicial error.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
Because it was people like you who covered it up. Can you honestly, really honestly, look back and say that you would have been a whistle blower had you seen what was going on? This is your ilk that has covered it up in the name of "community relations" and they looked the other way or in some cases prosecuted parents who wanted their children out of the hands of these rapists. I don't believe, from the posts you have written on here, that you would have been a whistle blower. In fact I believe you would have been an active participant in the cover up and justified it as being a "lesser evil" than "racists" targeting Muslims who perpetrated this evil.
Who knows what other people would do, but you're leveling a pretty harsh accusation.
So, I’ve just been on X where it looks like the grooming scandal continues to run and Musk continues to bait Starmer
Can someone tell me 1. If this is just one of those things that’s a bit of a bubble on X and 2. Why this has come up again now?
I think it is because Musky Baby wants to get Farage into No. 10. He is not only hitting out at the UK government, but he is also heavily promoting Tommy Robinson and Reform.
I seem to remember that prior to the election, people were warning that if Mr Trump was elected there wouldn't be any more presidential elections. So you'd invest your money for years only to have the bet voided?
There are still elections in Russia, for all the difference it makes. For all dictators like autocracy, they still feel the need to abide by the outward appearance of democracy. Mostly, it's just that they want to appear popular, internally and to the world, but the near-global norm of elections must have some impact.
Indeed, though our own pretentions of democracy are somewhat questionable when we have a party in power with untrammelled ability to govern when said party only has the active endorsement of 20% of the eligible electorate.
Well, much as I'm not a fan of FPTP, any notion that we should be drawing an equivalence between Britain's political system and that of dictatorships like Russia is so absurd as to disqualify anyone making it from the debate.
If people choose not to vote, that is their right. Personally, I think it's a bad decision and people have a civic duty to inform themselves and participate but if they opt out, that simply gives those that don't more say.
I would actively encourage everyone to participate in the democratic process. And I think that democracy is safer and healthier the more people are involved to a greater extent.
But I think there's also room for a principled abstentionism. If you genuinely don't know which way to vote, then there's a logic for leaving the decision to the collective will of your fellow citizens, and trusting their judgement.
So, I’ve just been on X where it looks like the grooming scandal continues to run and Musk continues to bait Starmer
Can someone tell me 1. If this is just one of those things that’s a bit of a bubble on X and 2. Why this has come up again now?
I think it is because Musky Baby wants to get Farage into No. 10. He is not only hitting out at the UK government, but he is also heavily promoting Tommy Robinson and Reform.
Yeah, he is buying us all a return to the politics of the 30s whether we like it or not.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
I would lay everyone for the Democratic nomination in 2028. Or at least I would if I didn't need to lock money up for three years, which makes the whole thing not worth while getting involved in.
Harris because she just lost by more than Hillary. And she only got the gig because she was VP before. I simply can't see her standing. And if she stood she'd lose.
Newsom is slick and smart. Unfortunately, he's also Californian. And he's not even particularly popular with Democrats in California. I would lay him too.
Shapiro could get the nomination. But we have no idea if he'll gain a national presence in the next four years.
Basically, who knows which Democrats will have a good three years, and which will not? It could be that someone we've never heard of manages to grab the headlines.
A lot also depends on Trump's second term. Will he impose tariffs, introduce another bunch of inflation and be really unpopular? Or will the economy bounce back strongly? Either is possible.
Someone we've never heard of.....interesting....anyone offering odds on Ed Davey?
We could send Brian Rose back.
Well he already has red, white and blue clothing...
I would lay everyone for the Democratic nomination in 2028. Or at least I would if I didn't need to lock money up for three years, which makes the whole thing not worth while getting involved in.
Harris because she just lost by more than Hillary. And she only got the gig because she was VP before. I simply can't see her standing. And if she stood she'd lose.
Newsom is slick and smart. Unfortunately, he's also Californian. And he's not even particularly popular with Democrats in California. I would lay him too.
Shapiro could get the nomination. But we have no idea if he'll gain a national presence in the next four years.
Basically, who knows which Democrats will have a good three years, and which will not? It could be that someone we've never heard of manages to grab the headlines.
A lot also depends on Trump's second term. Will he impose tariffs, introduce another bunch of inflation and be really unpopular? Or will the economy bounce back strongly? Either is possible.
Someone we've never heard of.....interesting....anyone offering odds on Ed Davey?
We could send Brian Rose back.
Well he already has red, white and blue clothing...
Yeah, but he's actually eligible isn't he? From the US I thought?
There’s a fair few usually sensible American conservatives who appear to have joined the Tommy Robinson fan club in the past 24 hours. Not even sure what started it, and it’s not like there hasn’t been loads of bad domestic news so far this year.
I can only suspect that they haven’t actually researched the case properly. American judges can and do lock people up for contempt of court, so it’s not like the concept doesn’t make sense to Amercians. “Secret” trials with reporting restrictions also happen in the US, for much the same reasons they happen anywhere else.
All very weird.
Our Tommy has been working hard over the last several years making friends with what passes for the "in crowd" in American politics these days, and now he is reaping the rewards for all that effort.
You have to forget all that you thought you knew about politics and ideology. There are only two things that matter now. Are you one of us? And how deep into your pockets will your hands reach?
Tommy is a member of the tribe. The politics, the legal process - none of that matters.
We're in Trump's world now. Different rules apply.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
On topic, I agree re Harris. I disagree re the other three. Oddschecker don't appear to have the 2028 nominee market up but for 2028 winner outright they list Newsom 9/1 (Starsports, mostly 8/1 with bigger names), Shapiro 12/1 (also Starsports, 11/1 with BetFred), and Whitmer 20/1 (several, including Ladbrokes). Harris is 50/1 (BV), which is justified for someone who has had - and blown - her chance.
There may be some value in Whitmer; I don't see any in the others. None is a clear front-runner, a lot can happen between now and 2028, including the Republicans really rigging the system (though that wouldn't matter for the nomination, when those odds are more widely available), and it'll likely be a wide field. At this moment, I'd steer clear of the entire market at the short end. It's a long time to tie money up for, laying favourites; the better value will be on outsiders who could become front-runners.
The Republican nomination may be interesting. Marco Rubio is 50/1 with BetVictor, which is worth looking at as someone who could potentially straddle the MAGA/mainstream divide (which is still there, if concealed for now) - though his path to the White House is difficult if Trump is no longer president and he's unlikely to get the golden endorsement if Trump still is there. But if the world has moved on, he could be in the right place.
On Betfair you can back Newsom at 12.5, Shapiro at 16, and Whitmer at 30.
I don't think it is worth laying anyone this far out, particularly at longish odds. As you say, it ties up your cash.
I also don't think it is worth betting on anyone at short odds, particularly Vance, for the same reason.
But it's fun to bet a small amount at long odds where the cost of money doesn't really apply.
So I've put £2 on each of Whitmer 30 Beshear 38 AOC 55 Pritzker 95 Fetterman 190 Klobuchar 200
It means I've got some skin the game to keep my interest. And there may be some interesting trading opportunities nearer the nomination date. I know that at least five of these bets will fail, but it's still possible to make money on trading, even if they all fail, as is likely.
That's not a stupid strategy. I mean, I don't think any of those look particularly likely candidates - but then again you're getting odds that are appropriate.
You think none of them look like candidates? Really? None of that list will run the primaries in 2027/8?
Could someone in her party send her the link? Or tell her about the Drew Review and Operation Stovewood by the NCA. Or the Jay report or what Dame Louise Casey has done?
Or remind her of what her fellow Cabinet Minister, Suellla Braverman, the Home Secretary to do in May 2023 when the final IICSA Report came out?
This is bandwagon jumping of the most tawdry kind instead of action - which she could have been asking for when she was an actual Cabinet Minister.
What magnificent results have these reports and enquiries produced?
The Drew Review was used to improve the approach of South Yorkshire Police.
Operation Stovewood: run by the NCA is the largest criminal enforcement investigation into non-family CSE. It has identified 1100 victims, has 50 investigations outstanding and has led to 36 convictions.
The Jay Report was used to improve services within Rotherham Council which was put into special measures. The council leader and head of children's services left.
It is something. By no means enough, of course.
But what actual use will yet another inquiry costing millions, reporting in a decade or so and telling us stuff we already know be? Because my suspicion is that this is not really about joining dots or understanding the manifold causes of male sexual violence - let alone taking effective action against it - but political point-scoring and a disguised fight about immigration, in which the needs of the victims - girls mostly - will largely be ignored.
Kemi is absolutely right to demand a full public enquiry. We quite rightly had one when postmasters' lives and livelihoods were ruined by public servants whose actions bordered on criminal. The victims of the grooming gangs deserve just as much justice, and the enablers of this abuse must be made to answer for their behaviour, and the causes brought into the open and eliminated from the public sphere.
This initiative is aligned to Kemi's long-held public stances on culture, and the stress she places on public bodies that don't work. It isn't just necessary, it feels authentic to her and what she stands for.
Why is she demanding one now she is in opposition rather than any time over the last 14 years?
I suspect because back then she abided by Tory Government policy rather than setting Tory opposition policy. I'm not saying she was right to do so, but I doubt Sir Once-A-Corbynite will be able to make a charge of hypocrisy stick.
It's less about hypocrisy, more whether she can make charges of negligence or coverup stick. Which given her party was in power when the offences fully came to light, could of and did hold enquiries, and she held one of the relevant briefs for a time, is rather difficult. Because people aren't stupid or born yesterday.
It's an argument an outsider can possibly make - arguing that both parties failed victims by not making it a national cause celebre that cut through process and should hold an inquiry. But not a Tory leader given what it implies about governments she was happy to support.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
There’s a fair few usually sensible American conservatives who appear to have joined the Tommy Robinson fan club in the past 24 hours. Not even sure what started it, and it’s not like there hasn’t been loads of bad domestic news so far this year.
I can only suspect that they haven’t actually researched the case properly. American judges can and do lock people up for contempt of court, so it’s not like the concept doesn’t make sense to Amercians. “Secret” trials with reporting restrictions also happen in the US, for much the same reasons they happen anywhere else.
All very weird.
Our Tommy has been working hard over the last several years making friends with what passes for the "in crowd" in American politics these days, and now he is reaping the rewards for all that effort.
You have to forget all that you thought you knew about politics and ideology. There are only two things that matter now. Are you one of us? And how deep into your pockets will your hands reach?
Tommy is a member of the tribe. The politics, the legal process - none of that matters.
We're in Trump's world now. Different rules apply.
Particularly as he had entered the USA on a false passport in the past.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
Could someone in her party send her the link? Or tell her about the Drew Review and Operation Stovewood by the NCA. Or the Jay report or what Dame Louise Casey has done?
Or remind her of what her fellow Cabinet Minister, Suellla Braverman, the Home Secretary to do in May 2023 when the final IICSA Report came out?
This is bandwagon jumping of the most tawdry kind instead of action - which she could have been asking for when she was an actual Cabinet Minister.
What magnificent results have these reports and enquiries produced?
The Drew Review was used to improve the approach of South Yorkshire Police.
Operation Stovewood: run by the NCA is the largest criminal enforcement investigation into non-family CSE. It has identified 1100 victims, has 50 investigations outstanding and has led to 36 convictions.
The Jay Report was used to improve services within Rotherham Council which was put into special measures. The council leader and head of children's services left.
It is something. By no means enough, of course.
But what actual use will yet another inquiry costing millions, reporting in a decade or so and telling us stuff we already know be? Because my suspicion is that this is not really about joining dots or understanding the manifold causes of male sexual violence - let alone taking effective action against it - but political point-scoring and a disguised fight about immigration, in which the needs of the victims - girls mostly - will largely be ignored.
Kemi is absolutely right to demand a full public enquiry. We quite rightly had one when postmasters' lives and livelihoods were ruined by public servants whose actions bordered on criminal. The victims of the grooming gangs deserve just as much justice, and the enablers of this abuse must be made to answer for their behaviour, and the causes brought into the open and eliminated from the public sphere.
This initiative is aligned to Kemi's long-held public stances on culture, and the stress she places on public bodies that don't work. It isn't just necessary, it feels authentic to her and what she stands for.
Why is she demanding one now she is in opposition rather than any time over the last 14 years?
I suspect because back then she abided by Tory Government policy rather than setting Tory opposition policy. I'm not saying she was right to do so, but I doubt Sir Once-A-Corbynite will be able to make a charge of hypocrisy stick.
It's less about hypocrisy, more whether she can make charges of negligence or coverup stick. Which given her party was in power when the offences fully came to light, could of and did hold enquiries, and she held one of the relevant briefs for a time, is rather difficult. Because people aren't stupid or born yesterday.
It's an argument an outsider can possibly make - arguing that both parties failed victims by not making it a national cause celebre that cut through process and should hold an inquiry. But not a Tory leader given what it implies about governments she was happy to support.
If anything, it is surely braver by a Tory leader, and the self-serving thing would be to ignore the calls.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
Because it was people like you who covered it up. Can you honestly, really honestly, look back and say that you would have been a whistle blower had you seen what was going on? This is your ilk that has covered it up in the name of "community relations" and they looked the other way or in some cases prosecuted parents who wanted their children out of the hands of these rapists. I don't believe, from the posts you have written on here, that you would have been a whistle blower. In fact I believe you would have been an active participant in the cover up and justified it as being a "lesser evil" than "racists" targeting Muslims who perpetrated this evil.
Who knows what other people would do, but you're leveling a pretty harsh accusation.
Yes, I realise it's a harsh accusation but he's also the guy who attempts to shut down all discussion of the lab leak, he's previously said that it's racist to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population in the UK and between both of those things I have come to the conclusion that he would have been one of those people who proclaimed to be uncomfortable with what was happening but saw it as a lesser evil than whistle blowing and potentially causing a lot of upheaval for Muslims across northern cities.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
We had a gas fridge when I was young.
We never had a fridge when I was a kid. There was a stone slab in the pantry to keep things cool. I remember sterilized milk which could keep for weeks, and tasted foul.
Could someone in her party send her the link? Or tell her about the Drew Review and Operation Stovewood by the NCA. Or the Jay report or what Dame Louise Casey has done?
Or remind her of what her fellow Cabinet Minister, Suellla Braverman, the Home Secretary to do in May 2023 when the final IICSA Report came out?
This is bandwagon jumping of the most tawdry kind instead of action - which she could have been asking for when she was an actual Cabinet Minister.
What magnificent results have these reports and enquiries produced?
The Drew Review was used to improve the approach of South Yorkshire Police.
Operation Stovewood: run by the NCA is the largest criminal enforcement investigation into non-family CSE. It has identified 1100 victims, has 50 investigations outstanding and has led to 36 convictions.
The Jay Report was used to improve services within Rotherham Council which was put into special measures. The council leader and head of children's services left.
It is something. By no means enough, of course.
But what actual use will yet another inquiry costing millions, reporting in a decade or so and telling us stuff we already know be? Because my suspicion is that this is not really about joining dots or understanding the manifold causes of male sexual violence - let alone taking effective action against it - but political point-scoring and a disguised fight about immigration, in which the needs of the victims - girls mostly - will largely be ignored.
Kemi is absolutely right to demand a full public enquiry. We quite rightly had one when postmasters' lives and livelihoods were ruined by public servants whose actions bordered on criminal. The victims of the grooming gangs deserve just as much justice, and the enablers of this abuse must be made to answer for their behaviour, and the causes brought into the open and eliminated from the public sphere.
This initiative is aligned to Kemi's long-held public stances on culture, and the stress she places on public bodies that don't work. It isn't just necessary, it feels authentic to her and what she stands for.
Why is she demanding one now she is in opposition rather than any time over the last 14 years?
I suspect because back then she abided by Tory Government policy rather than setting Tory opposition policy. I'm not saying she was right to do so, but I doubt Sir Once-A-Corbynite will be able to make a charge of hypocrisy stick.
It's less about hypocrisy, more whether she can make charges of negligence or coverup stick. Which given her party was in power when the offences fully came to light, could of and did hold enquiries, and she held one of the relevant briefs for a time, is rather difficult. Because people aren't stupid or born yesterday.
It's an argument an outsider can possibly make - arguing that both parties failed victims by not making it a national cause celebre that cut through process and should hold an inquiry. But not a Tory leader given what it implies about governments she was happy to support.
As Aniuska Asthana on ITN has perfectly explained.
Badenoch is attacking Phillips who is actually following Tory Policy in terms of regional enquiries.
Tories actively blocked national enquiry for 14 years.
Farage is at grave risk of being usurped by his nemesis Tommy Robinson in terms of Musk supporting Robinson views on the issue.
Can see turning in to a shit show for Farage and Badenoch if Robinson orcestrates more riots.
The great decent and honest UK public will always support law and order, even from. PM they may not naturally support if he acts as he did in August against hate racism and overseas infiltration into our politics.
Maggie Oliver, the Rochdale whistleblower who quit the force in 2012 to expose police failures in dealing with abuse gangs, told GB News that she was troubled by “unacceptable and inhumane delays” to justice.
A survivor of the Rotherham grooming gangs abuse scandal clashed with the relatives of an abuser outside court following a resentencing, GB News can reveal.
The dramatic altercation took place after two rapists convicted of attacking a girl from the age of 11 had their sentences reduced after a judicial error.
Do you think Musk is right and Phillips should be jailed forthwith, and/or Tommeh released?
Maggie Oliver, the Rochdale whistleblower who quit the force in 2012 to expose police failures in dealing with abuse gangs, told GB News that she was troubled by “unacceptable and inhumane delays” to justice.
A survivor of the Rotherham grooming gangs abuse scandal clashed with the relatives of an abuser outside court following a resentencing, GB News can reveal.
The dramatic altercation took place after two rapists convicted of attacking a girl from the age of 11 had their sentences reduced after a judicial error.
Do you think Musk is right and Phillips should be jailed forthwith, and/or Tommeh released?
Of course kit and anyone who does is as bad as Robinson and his thugs
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
We had a gas fridge when I was young.
We never had a fridge when I was a kid. There was a stone slab in the pantry to keep things cool. I remember sterilized milk which could keep for weeks, and tasted foul.
Oh, I have stories... rotting food, meats submerged in water to prevent decay (didn't work), milk that had to be drunk before noon because it went off by the evening. Fun, fun, fun...
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
Because it was people like you who covered it up. Can you honestly, really honestly, look back and say that you would have been a whistle blower had you seen what was going on? This is your ilk that has covered it up in the name of "community relations" and they looked the other way or in some cases prosecuted parents who wanted their children out of the hands of these rapists. I don't believe, from the posts you have written on here, that you would have been a whistle blower. In fact I believe you would have been an active participant in the cover up and justified it as being a "lesser evil" than "racists" targeting Muslims who perpetrated this evil.
Who knows what other people would do, but you're leveling a pretty harsh accusation.
Yes, I realise it's a harsh accusation but he's also the guy who attempts to shut down all discussion of the lab leak,
(snip)
Rubbish. He did not ''attempt to shut down all discussion of the lab leak". He had a different view on it that you and Leon, and argued his view just as passionately as you two did.
Maggie Oliver, the Rochdale whistleblower who quit the force in 2012 to expose police failures in dealing with abuse gangs, told GB News that she was troubled by “unacceptable and inhumane delays” to justice.
A survivor of the Rotherham grooming gangs abuse scandal clashed with the relatives of an abuser outside court following a resentencing, GB News can reveal.
The dramatic altercation took place after two rapists convicted of attacking a girl from the age of 11 had their sentences reduced after a judicial error.
Do you think Musk is right and Phillips should be jailed forthwith, and/or Tommeh released?
Could we have an elegant solution where Musk takes Robinson's place, given how strongly he feels about it?
One mad racist with far too much time on his hands and a tendency to shoot his stupid mouth off in exchange for, well, another one.
So, I’ve just been on X where it looks like the grooming scandal continues to run and Musk continues to bait Starmer
Can someone tell me 1. If this is just one of those things that’s a bit of a bubble on X and 2. Why this has come up again now?
I think it is because Musky Baby wants to get Farage into No. 10. He is not only hitting out at the UK government, but he is also heavily promoting Tommy Robinson and Reform.
By siding with Robinson he will destroy Farage and Reform
Farage and Robinson are a mutual hate society.
Musk of course doesn't understand this or doesn't care.
There’s a fair few usually sensible American conservatives who appear to have joined the Tommy Robinson fan club in the past 24 hours. Not even sure what started it, and it’s not like there hasn’t been loads of bad domestic news so far this year.
I can only suspect that they haven’t actually researched the case properly. American judges can and do lock people up for contempt of court, so it’s not like the concept doesn’t make sense to Amercians. “Secret” trials with reporting restrictions also happen in the US, for much the same reasons they happen anywhere else.
All very weird.
Our Tommy has been working hard over the last several years making friends with what passes for the "in crowd" in American politics these days, and now he is reaping the rewards for all that effort.
You have to forget all that you thought you knew about politics and ideology. There are only two things that matter now. Are you one of us? And how deep into your pockets will your hands reach?
Tommy is a member of the tribe. The politics, the legal process - none of that matters.
We're in Trump's world now. Different rules apply.
Particularly as he had entered the USA on a false passport in the past.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
We had a gas fridge when I was young.
We never had a fridge when I was a kid. There was a stone slab in the pantry to keep things cool. I remember sterilized milk which could keep for weeks, and tasted foul.
Oh, I have stories... rotting food, meats submerged in water to prevent decay (didn't work), milk that had to be drunk before noon because it went off by the evening. Fun, fun, fun...
Sterilized milk was awful. Worse though was school milk - little dumpy bottles that we were served up every day - and the milk was always sour. I love that we can buy fresh milk now that keeps for so long - often still fresh many days beyond its sell by date.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
We had a gas fridge when I was young.
We had a stone shelf in a larder.
If nothing else, this conversation Roger has provoked is suggesting PB isn't quite the haven of inherited privilege insinuated earlier.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
Because it was people like you who covered it up. Can you honestly, really honestly, look back and say that you would have been a whistle blower had you seen what was going on? This is your ilk that has covered it up in the name of "community relations" and they looked the other way or in some cases prosecuted parents who wanted their children out of the hands of these rapists. I don't believe, from the posts you have written on here, that you would have been a whistle blower. In fact I believe you would have been an active participant in the cover up and justified it as being a "lesser evil" than "racists" targeting Muslims who perpetrated this evil.
Who knows what other people would do, but you're leveling a pretty harsh accusation.
Yes, I realise it's a harsh accusation but he's also the guy who attempts to shut down all discussion of the lab leak,
(snip)
Rubbish. He did not ''attempt to shut down all discussion of the lab leak". He had a different view on it that you and Leon, and argued his view just as passionately as you two did.
No I mean from at the time of the pandemic when he was shutting down the discussion as "racist" and "listen to the experts and stfu" after that dodgy letter in the Lancet.
So, I’ve just been on X where it looks like the grooming scandal continues to run and Musk continues to bait Starmer
Can someone tell me 1. If this is just one of those things that’s a bit of a bubble on X and 2. Why this has come up again now?
I think it is because Musky Baby wants to get Farage into No. 10. He is not only hitting out at the UK government, but he is also heavily promoting Tommy Robinson and Reform.
He does. And after WH24 he'll be fancying his chances. The Cons have a big problem, I think. If the country succumbs to all that shit it's Farage. If it doesn't it's Labour and Lib Dem. That's to simplify but I think it's the essence of it. The Cons are struggling for relevance.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
We had a gas fridge when I was young.
We had a stone shelf in a larder.
If nothing else, this conversation Roger has provoked is suggesting PB isn't quite the haven of inherited privilege insinuated earlier.
I had a blessed childhood in many ways. I had two loving parents and two elder siblings who (mostly) loved me as an irritating little rugrat (*). I had a feeling of constant security and comfort at home. Many kids cannot say that, even if they have loads of money, go to the best school, and every toy and game going.
Maggie Oliver, the Rochdale whistleblower who quit the force in 2012 to expose police failures in dealing with abuse gangs, told GB News that she was troubled by “unacceptable and inhumane delays” to justice.
A survivor of the Rotherham grooming gangs abuse scandal clashed with the relatives of an abuser outside court following a resentencing, GB News can reveal.
The dramatic altercation took place after two rapists convicted of attacking a girl from the age of 11 had their sentences reduced after a judicial error.
Do you think Musk is right and Phillips should be jailed forthwith, and/or Tommeh released?
Surely this isn't just Phillips though, the whole cabinet should be jailed for winning an election for Labour. It is so unfair on those who expected their party to stay in power forever.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
Because it was people like you who covered it up. Can you honestly, really honestly, look back and say that you would have been a whistle blower had you seen what was going on? This is your ilk that has covered it up in the name of "community relations" and they looked the other way or in some cases prosecuted parents who wanted their children out of the hands of these rapists. I don't believe, from the posts you have written on here, that you would have been a whistle blower. In fact I believe you would have been an active participant in the cover up and justified it as being a "lesser evil" than "racists" targeting Muslims who perpetrated this evil.
Who knows what other people would do, but you're leveling a pretty harsh accusation.
Yes, I realise it's a harsh accusation but he's also the guy who attempts to shut down all discussion of the lab leak,
(snip)
Rubbish. He did not ''attempt to shut down all discussion of the lab leak". He had a different view on it that you and Leon, and argued his view just as passionately as you two did.
No I mean from at the time of the pandemic when he was shutting down the discussion as "racist" and "listen to the experts and stfu" after that dodgy letter in the Lancet.
I honestly cannot remember that, but it was crazy times. However: are you sure you are not shutting down debate now with your absolute 100% certainty that it was them evil Chinese in their lab?
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
We had a gas fridge when I was young.
We had a stone shelf in a larder.
If nothing else, this conversation Roger has provoked is suggesting PB isn't quite the haven of inherited privilege insinuated earlier.
No.
Mrs Flatlander's dad must have been an early adopter of central heating given he installed his own when it first became a thing some time in the 60s. Still have the brochure!
However, my family had a gas fire downstairs that also did the hot water, an electric fire in the kitchen, and pretty much no heating upstairs apart from a dodgy wall heater in the bathroom which you had to turn on 15 minutes before braving the conditions. Iced up windows was definitely a thing.
You got used to what you had, though. I think this is where we go wrong now. Making do is not so much a thing...
Maggie Oliver, the Rochdale whistleblower who quit the force in 2012 to expose police failures in dealing with abuse gangs, told GB News that she was troubled by “unacceptable and inhumane delays” to justice.
A survivor of the Rotherham grooming gangs abuse scandal clashed with the relatives of an abuser outside court following a resentencing, GB News can reveal.
The dramatic altercation took place after two rapists convicted of attacking a girl from the age of 11 had their sentences reduced after a judicial error.
Do you think Musk is right and Phillips should be jailed forthwith, and/or Tommeh released?
Surely this isn't just Phillips though, the whole cabinet should be jailed for winning an election for Labour. It is so unfair on those who expected their party to stay in power forever.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
When I was a child of 9 we moved to Berwick on Tweed in 1953 and the cold was penetrative in winter
My father used to go down to the living room first thing in the morning and light the coal fire which had a back boiler
We only had a two bar electric fire and eventually warm water, but it was notable that often with frost on the inside of our bedroom windows we got dressed under the bedclothes
My wife recounted the same story at her home in Lossiemouth, and in those days you just put on lots of layers, woolly hats and mittens, and got on with it
How times change, but at least we didn't suffer expensive heating bills, just dealt with the cold in our own way
Maggie Oliver, the Rochdale whistleblower who quit the force in 2012 to expose police failures in dealing with abuse gangs, told GB News that she was troubled by “unacceptable and inhumane delays” to justice.
A survivor of the Rotherham grooming gangs abuse scandal clashed with the relatives of an abuser outside court following a resentencing, GB News can reveal.
The dramatic altercation took place after two rapists convicted of attacking a girl from the age of 11 had their sentences reduced after a judicial error.
Do you think Musk is right and Phillips should be jailed forthwith, and/or Tommeh released?
Surely this isn't just Phillips though, the whole cabinet should be jailed for winning an election for Labour. It is so unfair on those who expected their party to stay in power forever.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
Maggie Oliver, the Rochdale whistleblower who quit the force in 2012 to expose police failures in dealing with abuse gangs, told GB News that she was troubled by “unacceptable and inhumane delays” to justice.
A survivor of the Rotherham grooming gangs abuse scandal clashed with the relatives of an abuser outside court following a resentencing, GB News can reveal.
The dramatic altercation took place after two rapists convicted of attacking a girl from the age of 11 had their sentences reduced after a judicial error.
Do you think Musk is right and Phillips should be jailed forthwith, and/or Tommeh released?
I sense a comeback for those "lock her up!" tee shirts.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
We had a gas fridge when I was young.
We never had a fridge when I was a kid. There was a stone slab in the pantry to keep things cool. I remember sterilized milk which could keep for weeks, and tasted foul.
Milk in glass 1pt bottles. We used to stand them in bowls of water covered with cloths reaching into the water so that the evaporation would keep the milk cooler.
Also winter days in junior school when the one-third pint bottles of milk froze and the crate had to be put in front of the wood-burning stove to thaw.
@Roger: you'd like to know my history, would you? Or do you just want to make some bitchy point?
My parents rented their flat. It had no central heating. The landlord was a bastard and neglected to look after it. After my father died, conditions were so bad that it was declared unfit for human habitation under the 1952 Housing Act. The landlord tried to evict my mother so he could sell it. It was one of the reasons I went into the law - so that I could fight back against people like him and help people like my mother. My first volunteering job was doing just that at the North Ken Law Centre. Both parents were born overseas. My father was Irish at a time when this was not fashionable and he was sneered at by the likes of people like you. I was orphaned at the age of 20.
Every job I ever got I got on merit on the basis of my qualities and what I had to offer. No-one in my family or their friends gave me a job (apart from one Saturday job when I was 16).
So I am entitled to be scornful of those people who game the property system in this country to benefit themselves and their children while sanctimoniously claiming to be against "privilege".
Maggie Oliver, the Rochdale whistleblower who quit the force in 2012 to expose police failures in dealing with abuse gangs, told GB News that she was troubled by “unacceptable and inhumane delays” to justice.
A survivor of the Rotherham grooming gangs abuse scandal clashed with the relatives of an abuser outside court following a resentencing, GB News can reveal.
The dramatic altercation took place after two rapists convicted of attacking a girl from the age of 11 had their sentences reduced after a judicial error.
Do you think Musk is right and Phillips should be jailed forthwith, and/or Tommeh released?
Surely this isn't just Phillips though, the whole cabinet should be jailed for winning an election for Labour. It is so unfair on those who expected their party to stay in power forever.
I suspect no Labour MP survives Musk's coup.
Based on his business endeavours, there’s only a 50% chance a Musk organised coup would work. At most.
Perhaps Musk should spend a bit more time on his (main) day job, rather than being a political fuckwit commenting on British and German affairs?
He might get lucky on that as well. Maga's and nationalists may start buying them as an alternative to the wonderfully stylish hats and t-shirts offsetting the namby pamby libs who boycott them.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
Could someone in her party send her the link? Or tell her about the Drew Review and Operation Stovewood by the NCA. Or the Jay report or what Dame Louise Casey has done?
Or remind her of what her fellow Cabinet Minister, Suellla Braverman, the Home Secretary to do in May 2023 when the final IICSA Report came out?
This is bandwagon jumping of the most tawdry kind instead of action - which she could have been asking for when she was an actual Cabinet Minister.
What magnificent results have these reports and enquiries produced?
The Drew Review was used to improve the approach of South Yorkshire Police.
Operation Stovewood: run by the NCA is the largest criminal enforcement investigation into non-family CSE. It has identified 1100 victims, has 50 investigations outstanding and has led to 36 convictions.
The Jay Report was used to improve services within Rotherham Council which was put into special measures. The council leader and head of children's services left.
It is something. By no means enough, of course.
But what actual use will yet another inquiry costing millions, reporting in a decade or so and telling us stuff we already know be? Because my suspicion is that this is not really about joining dots or understanding the manifold causes of male sexual violence - let alone taking effective action against it - but political point-scoring and a disguised fight about immigration, in which the needs of the victims - girls mostly - will largely be ignored.
Kemi is absolutely right to demand a full public enquiry. We quite rightly had one when postmasters' lives and livelihoods were ruined by public servants whose actions bordered on criminal. The victims of the grooming gangs deserve just as much justice, and the enablers of this abuse must be made to answer for their behaviour, and the causes brought into the open and eliminated from the public sphere.
This initiative is aligned to Kemi's long-held public stances on culture, and the stress she places on public bodies that don't work. It isn't just necessary, it feels authentic to her and what she stands for.
Why is she demanding one now she is in opposition rather than any time over the last 14 years?
I suspect because back then she abided by Tory Government policy rather than setting Tory opposition policy. I'm not saying she was right to do so, but I doubt Sir Once-A-Corbynite will be able to make a charge of hypocrisy stick.
It's less about hypocrisy, more whether she can make charges of negligence or coverup stick. Which given her party was in power when the offences fully came to light, could of and did hold enquiries, and she held one of the relevant briefs for a time, is rather difficult. Because people aren't stupid or born yesterday.
It's an argument an outsider can possibly make - arguing that both parties failed victims by not making it a national cause celebre that cut through process and should hold an inquiry. But not a Tory leader given what it implies about governments she was happy to support.
As Aniuska Asthana on ITN has perfectly explained.
Badenoch is attacking Phillips who is actually following Tory Policy in terms of regional enquiries.
Tories actively blocked national enquiry for 14 years.
Farage is at grave risk of being usurped by his nemesis Tommy Robinson in terms of Musk supporting Robinson views on the issue.
Can see turning in to a shit show for Farage and Badenoch if Robinson orcestrates more riots.
The great decent and honest UK public will always support law and order, even from. PM they may not naturally support if he acts as he did in August against hate racism and overseas infiltration into our politics.
Starmer got literally zero benefit from locking up people gobbing off on Facebook and releasing hardened criminals. Show me his polling bounce if you disagree.
Could someone in her party send her the link? Or tell her about the Drew Review and Operation Stovewood by the NCA. Or the Jay report or what Dame Louise Casey has done?
Or remind her of what her fellow Cabinet Minister, Suellla Braverman, the Home Secretary to do in May 2023 when the final IICSA Report came out?
This is bandwagon jumping of the most tawdry kind instead of action - which she could have been asking for when she was an actual Cabinet Minister.
What magnificent results have these reports and enquiries produced?
The Drew Review was used to improve the approach of South Yorkshire Police.
Operation Stovewood: run by the NCA is the largest criminal enforcement investigation into non-family CSE. It has identified 1100 victims, has 50 investigations outstanding and has led to 36 convictions.
The Jay Report was used to improve services within Rotherham Council which was put into special measures. The council leader and head of children's services left.
It is something. By no means enough, of course.
But what actual use will yet another inquiry costing millions, reporting in a decade or so and telling us stuff we already know be? Because my suspicion is that this is not really about joining dots or understanding the manifold causes of male sexual violence - let alone taking effective action against it - but political point-scoring and a disguised fight about immigration, in which the needs of the victims - girls mostly - will largely be ignored.
Kemi is absolutely right to demand a full public enquiry. We quite rightly had one when postmasters' lives and livelihoods were ruined by public servants whose actions bordered on criminal. The victims of the grooming gangs deserve just as much justice, and the enablers of this abuse must be made to answer for their behaviour, and the causes brought into the open and eliminated from the public sphere.
This initiative is aligned to Kemi's long-held public stances on culture, and the stress she places on public bodies that don't work. It isn't just necessary, it feels authentic to her and what she stands for.
Why is she demanding one now she is in opposition rather than any time over the last 14 years?
I suspect because back then she abided by Tory Government policy rather than setting Tory opposition policy. I'm not saying she was right to do so, but I doubt Sir Once-A-Corbynite will be able to make a charge of hypocrisy stick.
It's less about hypocrisy, more whether she can make charges of negligence or coverup stick. Which given her party was in power when the offences fully came to light, could of and did hold enquiries, and she held one of the relevant briefs for a time, is rather difficult. Because people aren't stupid or born yesterday.
It's an argument an outsider can possibly make - arguing that both parties failed victims by not making it a national cause celebre that cut through process and should hold an inquiry. But not a Tory leader given what it implies about governments she was happy to support.
Her use of the phrase “long overdue” wasn’t very sensible in that context.
There’s an argument for a public enquiry - but one with the scope she proposed would probably not report this Parliament. Which is perhaps the idea ?
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
Because it was people like you who covered it up. Can you honestly, really honestly, look back and say that you would have been a whistle blower had you seen what was going on? This is your ilk that has covered it up in the name of "community relations" and they looked the other way or in some cases prosecuted parents who wanted their children out of the hands of these rapists. I don't believe, from the posts you have written on here, that you would have been a whistle blower. In fact I believe you would have been an active participant in the cover up and justified it as being a "lesser evil" than "racists" targeting Muslims who perpetrated this evil.
Who knows what other people would do, but you're leveling a pretty harsh accusation.
Yes, I realise it's a harsh accusation but he's also the guy who attempts to shut down all discussion of the lab leak, he's previously said that it's racist to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population in the UK and between both of those things I have come to the conclusion that he would have been one of those people who proclaimed to be uncomfortable with what was happening but saw it as a lesser evil than whistle blowing and potentially causing a lot of upheaval for Muslims across northern cities.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
Because it was people like you who covered it up. Can you honestly, really honestly, look back and say that you would have been a whistle blower had you seen what was going on? This is your ilk that has covered it up in the name of "community relations" and they looked the other way or in some cases prosecuted parents who wanted their children out of the hands of these rapists. I don't believe, from the posts you have written on here, that you would have been a whistle blower. In fact I believe you would have been an active participant in the cover up and justified it as being a "lesser evil" than "racists" targeting Muslims who perpetrated this evil.
Who knows what other people would do, but you're leveling a pretty harsh accusation.
Yes, I realise it's a harsh accusation but he's also the guy who attempts to shut down all discussion of the lab leak, he's previously said that it's racist to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population in the UK and between both of those things I have come to the conclusion that he would have been one of those people who proclaimed to be uncomfortable with what was happening but saw it as a lesser evil than whistle blowing and potentially causing a lot of upheaval for Muslims across northern cities.
The people shutting down discussion about lab leak are those who maintain that it is proven and that other origins are not possible. Mainly our currently absent AI/viruses/novel geolocation tool expert.
There is a need to discuss immigration in a non-confrontational manner. Unless we get the language right we are in danger of not being able to deal with the consequences effectively.
I’m in Spain at the moment but could easily be Portugal, Italy or Greece. Wherever I have been in the last 18 months I see the same groups of young men either wandering or selling trinkets at the side of the road. They are detached from the society in which they now live and will be an issue unless they are integrated, recognised or returned. It’s a continent issue and not a local one. Rawanda was clearly nonsense but the language got in the way of a solution.
@Roger: you'd like to know my history, would you? Or do you just want to make some bitchy point?
My parents rented their flat. It had no central heating. The landlord was a bastard and neglected to look after it. After my father died, conditions were so bad that it was declared unfit for human habitation under the 1952 Housing Act. The landlord tried to evict my mother so he could sell it. It was one of the reasons I went into the law - so that I could fight back against people like him and help people like my mother. My first volunteering job was doing just that at the North Ken Law Centre. Both parents were born overseas. My father was Irish at a time when this was not fashionable and he was sneered at by the likes of people like you. I was orphaned at the age of 20.
Every job I ever got I got on merit on the basis of my qualities and what I had to offer. No-one in my family or their friends gave me a job (apart from one Saturday job when I was 16).
So I am entitled to be scornful of those people who game the property system in this country to benefit themselves and their children while sanctimoniously claiming to be against "privilege".
Had Roger been a lawyer he’d have known not to ask a question like that, if you don’t already know the answer you are going to get.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
When I was a child of 9 we moved to Berwick on Tweed in 1953 and the cold was penetrative in winter
My father used to go down to the living room first thing in the morning and light the coal fire which had a back boiler
We only had a two bar electric fire and eventually warm water, but it was notable that often with frost on the inside of our bedroom windows we got dressed under the bedclothes
My wife recounted the same story at her home in Lossiemouth, and in those days you just put on lots of layers, woolly hats and mittens, and got on with it
How times change, but at least we didn't suffer expensive heating bills, just dealt with the cold in our own way
Yes clearly lots of PBers made best they could in tough winters with few luxuries and no central heating, including you BigG.
Though we do seem to have gone a bit 4 Yorkshiremen this evening
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
We had a gas fridge when I was young.
We had a stone shelf in a larder.
So you had a larder? Luxury.
You know what luxury is? Luxury!
Luxury isn’t what it was. To us, luxury was when the gruel was warmed up for us to sip. Christmas Day, that was.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
Because it was people like you who covered it up. Can you honestly, really honestly, look back and say that you would have been a whistle blower had you seen what was going on? This is your ilk that has covered it up in the name of "community relations" and they looked the other way or in some cases prosecuted parents who wanted their children out of the hands of these rapists. I don't believe, from the posts you have written on here, that you would have been a whistle blower. In fact I believe you would have been an active participant in the cover up and justified it as being a "lesser evil" than "racists" targeting Muslims who perpetrated this evil.
Who knows what other people would do, but you're leveling a pretty harsh accusation.
Yes, I realise it's a harsh accusation but he's also the guy who attempts to shut down all discussion of the lab leak, he's previously said that it's racist to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population in the UK and between both of those things I have come to the conclusion that he would have been one of those people who proclaimed to be uncomfortable with what was happening but saw it as a lesser evil than whistle blowing and potentially causing a lot of upheaval for Muslims across northern cities.
I engage in discussion about the lab leak hypothesis. You want to talk about the lab leak hypothesis, go ahead. I will disagree with you. I won’t call you a paedophile enabler.
I’ve never said it’s racist to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population. Prove otherwise. I said it was wrong to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population because that’s not happening.
You are saying that someone who disagrees with you on a topic of virology and another of demographics is therefore deeply evil and would cover up horrendous crimes. That is pretty sick, Max.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
Because it was people like you who covered it up. Can you honestly, really honestly, look back and say that you would have been a whistle blower had you seen what was going on? This is your ilk that has covered it up in the name of "community relations" and they looked the other way or in some cases prosecuted parents who wanted their children out of the hands of these rapists. I don't believe, from the posts you have written on here, that you would have been a whistle blower. In fact I believe you would have been an active participant in the cover up and justified it as being a "lesser evil" than "racists" targeting Muslims who perpetrated this evil.
Who knows what other people would do, but you're leveling a pretty harsh accusation.
Yes, I realise it's a harsh accusation but he's also the guy who attempts to shut down all discussion of the lab leak,
(snip)
Rubbish. He did not ''attempt to shut down all discussion of the lab leak". He had a different view on it that you and Leon, and argued his view just as passionately as you two did.
No I mean from at the time of the pandemic when he was shutting down the discussion as "racist" and "listen to the experts and stfu" after that dodgy letter in the Lancet.
I honestly cannot remember that, but it was crazy times. However: are you sure you are not shutting down debate now with your absolute 100% certainty that it was them evil Chinese in their lab?
Not shutting it down, I just think that people who are adamant it wasn't a lab leak are part of the establishment who would be quite happy to cover things up. I've always said I'm open to the idea of it not being a lab leak, I just don't see these outlandish "a bat kissed a pangolin and then a Chinese guy had sex with the pangolin" ideas as realistic.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
People are complex creatures. It's entirely possible for Tommy Robinson to hold nasty racist views, and yet to also to care genuinely on some level about crimes against children. We have a very one-dimensional view of humanity these days where one is either entirely on the side of righteousness, like Judi Dench or Joanna Lumley, or wholly on the side of wickedness, like Vlad Putin, Donald Trump and Tommy Robinson. Then we have a furious debate on where people like Elon Musk, Jeremy Clarkson, the Pope, King Charles, Keir Starmer etc. belong, on one side or the other, and people like Phillip Schofield flip over. It's silly.
Its possible, but false.
Someone who was both racist and genuinely cared about crimes against children would not deliberately attempt to derail the trials of those who were abusing children.
Its possible to pick and choose your moments to make a stink, and derailing the trial of those accused is not the time unlessyou don't actually give a shit about the victims and are entirely self-centred and interested solely in making the story about yourself and your agenda, and let the victims go swivel if they want to see any justice.
Or top stupid to appreciate the implications of your actions
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
People are complex creatures. It's entirely possible for Tommy Robinson to hold nasty racist views, and yet to also to care genuinely on some level about crimes against children. We have a very one-dimensional view of humanity these days where one is either entirely on the side of righteousness, like Judi Dench or Joanna Lumley, or wholly on the side of wickedness, like Vlad Putin, Donald Trump and Tommy Robinson. Then we have a furious debate on where people like Elon Musk, Jeremy Clarkson, the Pope, King Charles, Keir Starmer etc. belong, on one side or the other, and people like Phillip Schofield flip over. It's silly.
Its possible, but false.
Someone who was both racist and genuinely cared about crimes against children would not deliberately attempt to derail the trials of those who were abusing children.
Its possible to pick and choose your moments to make a stink, and derailing the trial of those accused is not the time unlessyou don't actually give a shit about the victims and are entirely self-centred and interested solely in making the story about yourself and your agenda, and let the victims go swivel if they want to see any justice.
Or top stupid to appreciate the implications of your actions
He's had it explained to him in fairly short words, hasn't he?
Just caught up with the last thread and HYUFD's simplistic defence of the 11+
Having read his response to my post, I have to come to the conclusion that HY's IQ just isn't high enough to understand more nuanced argument!
Send him to the local Secondary Modern!
I benefitted from passing the 11+ and attending a grammar school. In my case the primary school pushed me for it (I guess via mum and dad). I don't think those who didn't even take it would have felt that they failed, but that's an oddity of where I grew up, being outside the catchment area of the school. I think the arguments for the old 11+ system have been settled. We are not going backwards. We should aim and hope for a world where all schools deliver for all children, but that's a bit too much like helium. As a newish parent I want my boy to have the best schooling possible, but a lot of that starts at home. I have no idea how we make sure all schools deliver the goods, but proper funding, decent buildings etc is a start. I'm not an expert but I also worry that we are starting to overdiagnose conditions in children. Not everything is a syndrome and not every kid will be academic. Do parents find it easier to deal with a struggling child if there is a label?
I sent to a Grammar School founded in 1563. It had one of the great British Rocks stars, a knighted Actor and a great literary Doctor amongst it's old boys
It was given notice that it would be turned in to a Comprehensive 6th Form mixed college, like many other old boys and girl grammars by a Conservative Education Minister.
Our Headmaster at the time tore up his Conservative Membership letter at Speech Day.
Her name Margaret Hilda Thatcher
No lessons needed or believed from any Tories about the Grammar System.
BTW the was at the time an extra 13 plus that any pupil a Secondary Modern School who was thought more suited to Grammar School Education could take in some Council areas.
To be fair it wasn't Thatcher who closed those grammar schools but mostly Labour councils, just then PM Heath told her not to block them doing so.
Where grammar schools remain they are in counties and local authorities that mostly had Tory councils in the 1960s and 1970s eg Kent, Trafford, Bucks, Bromley, Lincolnshire, Rugby, Ripon, Poole etc
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
When I was a child of 9 we moved to Berwick on Tweed in 1953 and the cold was penetrative in winter
My father used to go down to the living room first thing in the morning and light the coal fire which had a back boiler
We only had a two bar electric fire and eventually warm water, but it was notable that often with frost on the inside of our bedroom windows we got dressed under the bedclothes
My wife recounted the same story at her home in Lossiemouth, and in those days you just put on lots of layers, woolly hats and mittens, and got on with it
How times change, but at least we didn't suffer expensive heating bills, just dealt with the cold in our own way
I’m much younger than you, Big_G, but also recall frost from condensation on the inside of the bedroom windows, and coal fires.
Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani · 35m Wolfgang Munchau is the best German economics and finance journalists working in English. He was at the Financial Times for decades.
When I asked him if the AFD could form a government in Germany. He answered without hesitation: yes.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
We had a gas fridge when I was young.
We had a stone shelf in a larder.
So you had a larder? Luxury.
You know what luxury is? Luxury!
Luxury isn’t what it was. To us, luxury was when the gruel was warmed up for us to sip. Christmas Day, that was.
I used to hear second-hand tales of those that got to sip gruel. Warmed up! Never knew warmth was even possible!
Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani · 35m Wolfgang Munchau is the best German economics and finance journalists working in English. He was at the Financial Times for decades.
When I asked him if the AFD could form a government in Germany. He answered without hesitation: yes.
Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani · 35m Wolfgang Munchau is the best German economics and finance journalists working in English. He was at the Financial Times for decades.
When I asked him if the AFD could form a government in Germany. He answered without hesitation: yes.
I don't know why this is complicated. Any party polling 20% plus in volatile times is of course capable of winning elections, whether in Germany, UK or anywhere else.
Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani · 35m Wolfgang Munchau is the best German economics and finance journalists working in English. He was at the Financial Times for decades.
When I asked him if the AFD could form a government in Germany. He answered without hesitation: yes.
@Roger: you'd like to know my history, would you? Or do you just want to make some bitchy point?
My parents rented their flat. It had no central heating. The landlord was a bastard and neglected to look after it. After my father died, conditions were so bad that it was declared unfit for human habitation under the 1952 Housing Act. The landlord tried to evict my mother so he could sell it. It was one of the reasons I went into the law - so that I could fight back against people like him and help people like my mother. My first volunteering job was doing just that at the North Ken Law Centre. Both parents were born overseas. My father was Irish at a time when this was not fashionable and he was sneered at by the likes of people like you. I was orphaned at the age of 20.
Every job I ever got I got on merit on the basis of my qualities and what I had to offer. No-one in my family or their friends gave me a job (apart from one Saturday job when I was 16).
So I am entitled to be scornful of those people who game the property system in this country to benefit themselves and their children while sanctimoniously claiming to be against "privilege".
Is someone suggesting Phillipson 'gamed' the property system and criticising anyone for sanctimony really takes the biscuit
Could someone in her party send her the link? Or tell her about the Drew Review and Operation Stovewood by the NCA. Or the Jay report or what Dame Louise Casey has done?
Or remind her of what her fellow Cabinet Minister, Suellla Braverman, the Home Secretary to do in May 2023 when the final IICSA Report came out?
This is bandwagon jumping of the most tawdry kind instead of action - which she could have been asking for when she was an actual Cabinet Minister.
What magnificent results have these reports and enquiries produced?
The Drew Review was used to improve the approach of South Yorkshire Police.
Operation Stovewood: run by the NCA is the largest criminal enforcement investigation into non-family CSE. It has identified 1100 victims, has 50 investigations outstanding and has led to 36 convictions.
The Jay Report was used to improve services within Rotherham Council which was put into special measures. The council leader and head of children's services left.
It is something. By no means enough, of course.
But what actual use will yet another inquiry costing millions, reporting in a decade or so and telling us stuff we already know be? Because my suspicion is that this is not really about joining dots or understanding the manifold causes of male sexual violence - let alone taking effective action against it - but political point-scoring and a disguised fight about immigration, in which the needs of the victims - girls mostly - will largely be ignored.
Kemi is absolutely right to demand a full public enquiry. We quite rightly had one when postmasters' lives and livelihoods were ruined by public servants whose actions bordered on criminal. The victims of the grooming gangs deserve just as much justice, and the enablers of this abuse must be made to answer for their behaviour, and the causes brought into the open and eliminated from the public sphere.
This initiative is aligned to Kemi's long-held public stances on culture, and the stress she places on public bodies that don't work. It isn't just necessary, it feels authentic to her and what she stands for.
Why is she demanding one now she is in opposition rather than any time over the last 14 years?
I suspect because back then she abided by Tory Government policy rather than setting Tory opposition policy. I'm not saying she was right to do so, but I doubt Sir Once-A-Corbynite will be able to make a charge of hypocrisy stick.
It's less about hypocrisy, more whether she can make charges of negligence or coverup stick. Which given her party was in power when the offences fully came to light, could of and did hold enquiries, and she held one of the relevant briefs for a time, is rather difficult. Because people aren't stupid or born yesterday.
It's an argument an outsider can possibly make - arguing that both parties failed victims by not making it a national cause celebre that cut through process and should hold an inquiry. But not a Tory leader given what it implies about governments she was happy to support.
Her use of the phrase “long overdue” wasn’t very sensible in that context.
There’s an argument for a public enquiry - but one with the scope she proposed would probably not report this Parliament. Which is perhaps the idea ?
What she appears to be asking for is simply a repeat of what has already been done by IICSA. See here for the timeline of all the work that has been done and on what. This is in addition to the inquiries on Rochdale, Rotherham and Oxford.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
When I was a child of 9 we moved to Berwick on Tweed in 1953 and the cold was penetrative in winter
My father used to go down to the living room first thing in the morning and light the coal fire which had a back boiler
We only had a two bar electric fire and eventually warm water, but it was notable that often with frost on the inside of our bedroom windows we got dressed under the bedclothes
My wife recounted the same story at her home in Lossiemouth, and in those days you just put on lots of layers, woolly hats and mittens, and got on with it
How times change, but at least we didn't suffer expensive heating bills, just dealt with the cold in our own way
Yes clearly lots of PBers made best they could in tough winters with few luxuries and no central heating, including you BigG.
Though we do seem to have gone a bit 4 Yorkshiremen this evening
The thing is you do not miss luxuries as they were not there or invented
Indeed we only had our first very small black and white TV that year, but we were happy and did not have to deal with the influences of social media and 24/7 news and of course you would love it that the TV closed down each night with the national anthem and if my grandmother was around she would immediately stand up and to attention
As a young lad I found this quite comical, and used to tease her about it and she in turn would 'snitch' on me if she had looked after myself and my sister when my mother and father were out in the evening
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
We had a gas fridge when I was young.
We had a stone shelf in a larder.
So you had a larder? Luxury.
You know what luxury is? Luxury!
Luxury isn’t what it was. To us, luxury was when the gruel was warmed up for us to sip. Christmas Day, that was.
Warmed up? That was proper posh to us. Our gruel was frozen so cold on Christmas Day us kids were used as giant ice picks to portion it out.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
Because it was people like you who covered it up. Can you honestly, really honestly, look back and say that you would have been a whistle blower had you seen what was going on? This is your ilk that has covered it up in the name of "community relations" and they looked the other way or in some cases prosecuted parents who wanted their children out of the hands of these rapists. I don't believe, from the posts you have written on here, that you would have been a whistle blower. In fact I believe you would have been an active participant in the cover up and justified it as being a "lesser evil" than "racists" targeting Muslims who perpetrated this evil.
Who knows what other people would do, but you're leveling a pretty harsh accusation.
Yes, I realise it's a harsh accusation but he's also the guy who attempts to shut down all discussion of the lab leak,
(snip)
Rubbish. He did not ''attempt to shut down all discussion of the lab leak". He had a different view on it that you and Leon, and argued his view just as passionately as you two did.
No I mean from at the time of the pandemic when he was shutting down the discussion as "racist" and "listen to the experts and stfu" after that dodgy letter in the Lancet.
I honestly cannot remember that, but it was crazy times. However: are you sure you are not shutting down debate now with your absolute 100% certainty that it was them evil Chinese in their lab?
Not shutting it down, I just think that people who are adamant it wasn't a lab leak are part of the establishment who would be quite happy to cover things up. I've always said I'm open to the idea of it not being a lab leak, I just don't see these outlandish "a bat kissed a pangolin and then a Chinese guy had sex with the pangolin" ideas as realistic.
I believe I've seen him write posts where he says it could be a lab leak, but he thinks, on the balance of probabilities, it was a 'natural' occurrence from the wet market. I daresay he'll correct me if I'm wrong.
The problem is people like Leon, who are so incredibly adamant, in their 'expert' view, that it was a lab leak, that anyone who argues it may not have been sound entrenched the other way.
My own somewhat controversial view: we'll probably never know for sure where it originated, and it does not matter much. It could have come from either the wet market or lab; so in future we need to try to ensure that it cannot occur in either again. Close the wet markets and similar, and tighten restrictions and procedures at labs.
Sad to see that user go down the batshit rabbit hole but it was clear it was going this way if you’d read any of their posts over the last few months. He will be supporting the far right very soon, just see how much he’s enjoying telling us how great Elon Musk is.
It is a great shame as for a while he posted a very nice, educated, informed point of view from a “younger” Tory. But no longer.
@Roger: you'd like to know my history, would you? Or do you just want to make some bitchy point?
My parents rented their flat. It had no central heating. The landlord was a bastard and neglected to look after it. After my father died, conditions were so bad that it was declared unfit for human habitation under the 1952 Housing Act. The landlord tried to evict my mother so he could sell it. It was one of the reasons I went into the law - so that I could fight back against people like him and help people like my mother. My first volunteering job was doing just that at the North Ken Law Centre. Both parents were born overseas. My father was Irish at a time when this was not fashionable and he was sneered at by the likes of people like you. I was orphaned at the age of 20.
Every job I ever got I got on merit on the basis of my qualities and what I had to offer. No-one in my family or their friends gave me a job (apart from one Saturday job when I was 16).
So I am entitled to be scornful of those people who game the property system in this country to benefit themselves and their children while sanctimoniously claiming to be against "privilege".
Is someone suggesting Phillipson 'gamed' the property system and criticising anyone for sanctimony really takes the biscuit
Could someone in her party send her the link? Or tell her about the Drew Review and Operation Stovewood by the NCA. Or the Jay report or what Dame Louise Casey has done?
Or remind her of what her fellow Cabinet Minister, Suellla Braverman, the Home Secretary to do in May 2023 when the final IICSA Report came out?
This is bandwagon jumping of the most tawdry kind instead of action - which she could have been asking for when she was an actual Cabinet Minister.
What magnificent results have these reports and enquiries produced?
The Drew Review was used to improve the approach of South Yorkshire Police.
Operation Stovewood: run by the NCA is the largest criminal enforcement investigation into non-family CSE. It has identified 1100 victims, has 50 investigations outstanding and has led to 36 convictions.
The Jay Report was used to improve services within Rotherham Council which was put into special measures. The council leader and head of children's services left.
It is something. By no means enough, of course.
But what actual use will yet another inquiry costing millions, reporting in a decade or so and telling us stuff we already know be? Because my suspicion is that this is not really about joining dots or understanding the manifold causes of male sexual violence - let alone taking effective action against it - but political point-scoring and a disguised fight about immigration, in which the needs of the victims - girls mostly - will largely be ignored.
Kemi is absolutely right to demand a full public enquiry. We quite rightly had one when postmasters' lives and livelihoods were ruined by public servants whose actions bordered on criminal. The victims of the grooming gangs deserve just as much justice, and the enablers of this abuse must be made to answer for their behaviour, and the causes brought into the open and eliminated from the public sphere.
This initiative is aligned to Kemi's long-held public stances on culture, and the stress she places on public bodies that don't work. It isn't just necessary, it feels authentic to her and what she stands for.
Why is she demanding one now she is in opposition rather than any time over the last 14 years?
I suspect because back then she abided by Tory Government policy rather than setting Tory opposition policy. I'm not saying she was right to do so, but I doubt Sir Once-A-Corbynite will be able to make a charge of hypocrisy stick.
It's less about hypocrisy, more whether she can make charges of negligence or coverup stick. Which given her party was in power when the offences fully came to light, could of and did hold enquiries, and she held one of the relevant briefs for a time, is rather difficult. Because people aren't stupid or born yesterday.
It's an argument an outsider can possibly make - arguing that both parties failed victims by not making it a national cause celebre that cut through process and should hold an inquiry. But not a Tory leader given what it implies about governments she was happy to support.
As Aniuska Asthana on ITN has perfectly explained.
Badenoch is attacking Phillips who is actually following Tory Policy in terms of regional enquiries.
Tories actively blocked national enquiry for 14 years.
Farage is at grave risk of being usurped by his nemesis Tommy Robinson in terms of Musk supporting Robinson views on the issue.
Can see turning in to a shit show for Farage and Badenoch if Robinson orcestrates more riots.
The great decent and honest UK public will always support law and order, even from. PM they may not naturally support if he acts as he did in August against hate racism and overseas infiltration into our politics.
The basic problem for Badenoch is that broadly speaking two narratives can be true.
1.) The initial failings by police and the councils were shocking but brought to light and were largely, if imperfectly as ever, addressed under the previous government. There will always be work to do but we had the inquiries and reports, people have gone to jail and police practices changed.
2.) The failures weren't addressed but swept under the carpet for the sake of not upsetting Muslim communities and the scandal so great, ongoing and widespread that it warrants an immediate national inquiry. Labour and Tory politicians are both guilty, the former having ignored the initial problems and the latter for not raising the alarm more widely after the seriousness of the issue became obvious.
It's obvious why 2.) is Farage's position. It's difficult to see how it's one that can work for Badenoch or the Tories given it would make her party, and thus herself, in part resonsible for the unforgivable.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
Because it was people like you who covered it up. Can you honestly, really honestly, look back and say that you would have been a whistle blower had you seen what was going on? This is your ilk that has covered it up in the name of "community relations" and they looked the other way or in some cases prosecuted parents who wanted their children out of the hands of these rapists. I don't believe, from the posts you have written on here, that you would have been a whistle blower. In fact I believe you would have been an active participant in the cover up and justified it as being a "lesser evil" than "racists" targeting Muslims who perpetrated this evil.
Who knows what other people would do, but you're leveling a pretty harsh accusation.
Yes, I realise it's a harsh accusation but he's also the guy who attempts to shut down all discussion of the lab leak, he's previously said that it's racist to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population in the UK and between both of those things I have come to the conclusion that he would have been one of those people who proclaimed to be uncomfortable with what was happening but saw it as a lesser evil than whistle blowing and potentially causing a lot of upheaval for Muslims across northern cities.
I engage in discussion about the lab leak hypothesis. You want to talk about the lab leak hypothesis, go ahead. I will disagree with you. I won’t call you a paedophile enabler.
I’ve never said it’s racist to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population. Prove otherwise. I said it was wrong to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population because that’s not happening.
You are saying that someone who disagrees with you on a topic of virology and another of demographics is therefore deeply evil and would cover up horrendous crimes. That is pretty sick, Max.
As I said, really very honestly put yourself in 2003 when this was all happening and being covered up. You saw some evidence of what was occuring and you initially put it up the chain (which is fine) and then you get told to shut up otherwise the racists will attack Muslims and you'll be out of a job and branded a racist yourself by everyone and ostracised by the wider left as an Islamophobe. I want you to have a really honest look at the situation and think about what you would have done. Would you have been the person that put your head above the parapet? I don't think so. You fear being labelled a racist, that much has been clear for for a while. While I can't look you in the eye and ask you this I do hope you give me an honest answer. If you say you would have been the whistleblower then I'll accept that and drop it, if you say you wouldn't I'll also accept that and drop it on the basis that 99/100 people took that option.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
When I was a child of 9 we moved to Berwick on Tweed in 1953 and the cold was penetrative in winter
My father used to go down to the living room first thing in the morning and light the coal fire which had a back boiler
We only had a two bar electric fire and eventually warm water, but it was notable that often with frost on the inside of our bedroom windows we got dressed under the bedclothes
My wife recounted the same story at her home in Lossiemouth, and in those days you just put on lots of layers, woolly hats and mittens, and got on with it
How times change, but at least we didn't suffer expensive heating bills, just dealt with the cold in our own way
Yes clearly lots of PBers made best they could in tough winters with few luxuries and no central heating, including you BigG.
Though we do seem to have gone a bit 4 Yorkshiremen this evening
The thing is you do not miss luxuries as they were not there or invented
Indeed we only had our first very small black and white TV that year, but we were happy and did not have to deal with the influences of social media and 24/7 news and of course you would love it that the TV closed down each night with the national anthem and if my grandmother was around she would immediately stand up and to attention
As a young lad I found this quite comical, and used to tease her about it and she in turn would 'snitch' on me if she had looked after myself and my sister when my mother and father were out in the evening
My grandfather used to stand to attention similarly. There was no teasing him. My brother reminded me the other day that he would also have us redo our shoelaces if they were criss-cross rather than transverse across the upper.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
Because it was people like you who covered it up. Can you honestly, really honestly, look back and say that you would have been a whistle blower had you seen what was going on? This is your ilk that has covered it up in the name of "community relations" and they looked the other way or in some cases prosecuted parents who wanted their children out of the hands of these rapists. I don't believe, from the posts you have written on here, that you would have been a whistle blower. In fact I believe you would have been an active participant in the cover up and justified it as being a "lesser evil" than "racists" targeting Muslims who perpetrated this evil.
Who knows what other people would do, but you're leveling a pretty harsh accusation.
Yes, I realise it's a harsh accusation but he's also the guy who attempts to shut down all discussion of the lab leak,
(snip)
Rubbish. He did not ''attempt to shut down all discussion of the lab leak". He had a different view on it that you and Leon, and argued his view just as passionately as you two did.
No I mean from at the time of the pandemic when he was shutting down the discussion as "racist" and "listen to the experts and stfu" after that dodgy letter in the Lancet.
I honestly cannot remember that, but it was crazy times. However: are you sure you are not shutting down debate now with your absolute 100% certainty that it was them evil Chinese in their lab?
(Snip) I just don't see these outlandish "a bat kissed a pangolin and then a Chinese guy had sex with the pangolin" ideas as realistic.
Quoting again to tackle this part of your post. Humankind has faced pandemic after pandemic throughout recorded history, without any labs to leak. Many of these illnesses probably came from animals. As an example, HIV probably came from SIV in monkeys.
Why is it unrealistic that, in an area where many different species and animals are thrust close together in poor conditions, that new diseases may rapidly develop and spread?
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
When I was a child of 9 we moved to Berwick on Tweed in 1953 and the cold was penetrative in winter
My father used to go down to the living room first thing in the morning and light the coal fire which had a back boiler
We only had a two bar electric fire and eventually warm water, but it was notable that often with frost on the inside of our bedroom windows we got dressed under the bedclothes
My wife recounted the same story at her home in Lossiemouth, and in those days you just put on lots of layers, woolly hats and mittens, and got on with it
How times change, but at least we didn't suffer expensive heating bills, just dealt with the cold in our own way
Yes clearly lots of PBers made best they could in tough winters with few luxuries and no central heating, including you BigG.
Though we do seem to have gone a bit 4 Yorkshiremen this evening
The thing is you do not miss luxuries as they were not there or invented
Indeed we only had our first very small black and white TV that year, but we were happy and did not have to deal with the influences of social media and 24/7 news and of course you would love it that the TV closed down each night with the national anthem and if my grandmother was around she would immediately stand up and to attention
As a young lad I found this quite comical, and used to tease her about it and she in turn would 'snitch' on me if she had looked after myself and my sister when my mother and father were out in the evening
My grandfather used to stand to attention similarly. There was no teasing him. My brother reminded me the other day that he would also have us redo our shoelaces if they were criss-cross rather than transverse across the upper.
I think my general disinterest in royalty came from those days, but my grandfather was a professional soldier and loyalty to the crown was natural for my grandmother
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
We had a gas fridge when I was young.
We had a stone shelf in a larder.
So you had a larder? Luxury.
You know what luxury is? Luxury!
Luxury isn’t what it was. To us, luxury was when the gruel was warmed up for us to sip. Christmas Day, that was.
I used to hear second-hand tales of those that got to sip gruel. Warmed up! Never knew warmth was even possible!
@Roger: you'd like to know my history, would you? Or do you just want to make some bitchy point?
My parents rented their flat. It had no central heating. The landlord was a bastard and neglected to look after it. After my father died, conditions were so bad that it was declared unfit for human habitation under the 1952 Housing Act. The landlord tried to evict my mother so he could sell it. It was one of the reasons I went into the law - so that I could fight back against people like him and help people like my mother. My first volunteering job was doing just that at the North Ken Law Centre. Both parents were born overseas. My father was Irish at a time when this was not fashionable and he was sneered at by the likes of people like you. I was orphaned at the age of 20.
Every job I ever got I got on merit on the basis of my qualities and what I had to offer. No-one in my family or their friends gave me a job (apart from one Saturday job when I was 16).
So I am entitled to be scornful of those people who game the property system in this country to benefit themselves and their children while sanctimoniously claiming to be against "privilege".
Is someone suggesting Phillipson 'gamed' the property system and criticising anyone for sanctimony really takes the biscuit
I was talking about the English middle classes - as you know perfectly well. Gaming the property system then objecting to using the money they make to pay for their own care to preserve inheritances while expecting those poorer than themselves to pay for their care is well worthy of criticism. Though other views are available of course.
But the reality is you just can't bear any woman on here having an opinion of her own, unless she agrees with you of course. So you go for personal insults. It's not the first time you've done it when it comes to me. It's pretty tiresome, frankly.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
Because it was people like you who covered it up. Can you honestly, really honestly, look back and say that you would have been a whistle blower had you seen what was going on? This is your ilk that has covered it up in the name of "community relations" and they looked the other way or in some cases prosecuted parents who wanted their children out of the hands of these rapists. I don't believe, from the posts you have written on here, that you would have been a whistle blower. In fact I believe you would have been an active participant in the cover up and justified it as being a "lesser evil" than "racists" targeting Muslims who perpetrated this evil.
Who knows what other people would do, but you're leveling a pretty harsh accusation.
Yes, I realise it's a harsh accusation but he's also the guy who attempts to shut down all discussion of the lab leak,
(snip)
Rubbish. He did not ''attempt to shut down all discussion of the lab leak". He had a different view on it that you and Leon, and argued his view just as passionately as you two did.
No I mean from at the time of the pandemic when he was shutting down the discussion as "racist" and "listen to the experts and stfu" after that dodgy letter in the Lancet.
I honestly cannot remember that, but it was crazy times. However: are you sure you are not shutting down debate now with your absolute 100% certainty that it was them evil Chinese in their lab?
Not shutting it down, I just think that people who are adamant it wasn't a lab leak are part of the establishment who would be quite happy to cover things up. I've always said I'm open to the idea of it not being a lab leak, I just don't see these outlandish "a bat kissed a pangolin and then a Chinese guy had sex with the pangolin" ideas as realistic.
I believe I've seen him write posts where he says it could be a lab leak, but he thinks, on the balance of probabilities, it was a 'natural' occurrence from the wet market. I daresay he'll correct me if I'm wrong.
The problem is people like Leon, who are so incredibly adamant, in their 'expert' view, that it was a lab leak, that anyone who argues it may not have been sound entrenched the other way.
My own somewhat controversial view: we'll probably never know for sure where it originated, and it does not matter much. It could have come from either the wet market or lab; so in future we need to try to ensure that it cannot occur in either again. Close the wet markets and similar, and tighten restrictions and procedures at labs.
Lab leaks have happened and caused disease outbreaks. Most notably, the 1977 flu might have been a Russian lab leak, although it’s very hard to determine for sure.
Over time, the evidence that COVID-19 came from the wet market has increased. I might once have talked about the balance of probabilities. I wouldn’t now, in 2025. It is exceedingly unlikely that COVID-19 was anything other than a zoonotic event, just like the vast majority of novel disease pandemics.
I think most epidemiologists would broadly agree with the point you make at the end. It doesn’t matter much. We should try to avoid it happening again. Such a thing could happen from a lab leak and we should take appropriate caution to avoid that. It could also happen from a zoonotic event and we should try to avoid that.
It is unfortunate that a point of epidemiological investigation has, like so many other things, been captured by culture war nonsense, such that expressing a view on COVID-19 origins gets you labelled a paedophile enabler.
I don't think many U.K. commentators have really got to grips with the extent of the vibe shift in the US and the implications for their own politics.
Yes. But equally perceptive would be to point out how easy it is to read too much into things. Eg if Harris had got a smidgen more votes and won we'd have been drowning in "the populist right has peaked" takes.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
Because it was people like you who covered it up. Can you honestly, really honestly, look back and say that you would have been a whistle blower had you seen what was going on? This is your ilk that has covered it up in the name of "community relations" and they looked the other way or in some cases prosecuted parents who wanted their children out of the hands of these rapists. I don't believe, from the posts you have written on here, that you would have been a whistle blower. In fact I believe you would have been an active participant in the cover up and justified it as being a "lesser evil" than "racists" targeting Muslims who perpetrated this evil.
Who knows what other people would do, but you're leveling a pretty harsh accusation.
Yes, I realise it's a harsh accusation but he's also the guy who attempts to shut down all discussion of the lab leak, he's previously said that it's racist to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population in the UK and between both of those things I have come to the conclusion that he would have been one of those people who proclaimed to be uncomfortable with what was happening but saw it as a lesser evil than whistle blowing and potentially causing a lot of upheaval for Muslims across northern cities.
I engage in discussion about the lab leak hypothesis. You want to talk about the lab leak hypothesis, go ahead. I will disagree with you. I won’t call you a paedophile enabler.
I’ve never said it’s racist to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population. Prove otherwise. I said it was wrong to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population because that’s not happening.
You are saying that someone who disagrees with you on a topic of virology and another of demographics is therefore deeply evil and would cover up horrendous crimes. That is pretty sick, Max.
As I said, really very honestly put yourself in 2003 when this was all happening and being covered up. You saw some evidence of what was occuring and you initially put it up the chain (which is fine) and then you get told to shut up otherwise the racists will attack Muslims and you'll be out of a job and branded a racist yourself by everyone and ostracised by the wider left as an Islamophobe. I want you to have a really honest look at the situation and think about what you would have done. Would you have been the person that put your head above the parapet? I don't think so. You fear being labelled a racist, that much has been clear for for a while. While I can't look you in the eye and ask you this I do hope you give me an honest answer. If you say you would have been the whistleblower then I'll accept that and drop it, if you say you wouldn't I'll also accept that and drop it on the basis that 99/100 people took that option.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
When I was a child of 9 we moved to Berwick on Tweed in 1953 and the cold was penetrative in winter
My father used to go down to the living room first thing in the morning and light the coal fire which had a back boiler
We only had a two bar electric fire and eventually warm water, but it was notable that often with frost on the inside of our bedroom windows we got dressed under the bedclothes
My wife recounted the same story at her home in Lossiemouth, and in those days you just put on lots of layers, woolly hats and mittens, and got on with it
How times change, but at least we didn't suffer expensive heating bills, just dealt with the cold in our own way
Yes clearly lots of PBers made best they could in tough winters with few luxuries and no central heating, including you BigG.
Though we do seem to have gone a bit 4 Yorkshiremen this evening
The thing is you do not miss luxuries as they were not there or invented
Indeed we only had our first very small black and white TV that year, but we were happy and did not have to deal with the influences of social media and 24/7 news and of course you would love it that the TV closed down each night with the national anthem and if my grandmother was around she would immediately stand up and to attention
As a young lad I found this quite comical, and used to tease her about it and she in turn would 'snitch' on me if she had looked after myself and my sister when my mother and father were out in the evening
I remember once being up late listening to the radio, not that many years ago, and was surprised when they went through the shutdown routine. They played that song, called something like the boating life, then had a couple of words to say about what the Royal Family were up to, before playing the National Anthem.
It struck me as one of those odd things that mark one country out as being different to another. In Ireland it's that they play the Angelus at noon and 6pm on some radio and TV stations.
Anyway, they had a phone-in on Irish radio about the shipping forecast today - 100 year anniversary of the first radio broadcast of the shipping forecast - and so they played that song from the radio (although they didn't follow it up with the Royal news and the national anthem, reprobate Republicans that they are).
It was the first thing that made me feel a bit nostalgic about living in Britain. Not what I expected to miss to be honest.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
When I was a child of 9 we moved to Berwick on Tweed in 1953 and the cold was penetrative in winter
My father used to go down to the living room first thing in the morning and light the coal fire which had a back boiler
We only had a two bar electric fire and eventually warm water, but it was notable that often with frost on the inside of our bedroom windows we got dressed under the bedclothes
My wife recounted the same story at her home in Lossiemouth, and in those days you just put on lots of layers, woolly hats and mittens, and got on with it
How times change, but at least we didn't suffer expensive heating bills, just dealt with the cold in our own way
Yes clearly lots of PBers made best they could in tough winters with few luxuries and no central heating, including you BigG.
Though we do seem to have gone a bit 4 Yorkshiremen this evening
Talking of which - a day out in the Dales today. Started unpromisingly with both pubs and both cafes in Horton in Ribblesdale closed, forcing us five miles up the road for lunch to the Station Inn at Ribbleshead. Which turned out to be even better than I remembered from my last visit 20 years ago. So a happy outcome there. Then back to H-i-R and a walk up to Hull Pot (England's largest hole in the ground) which I have always wanted to see - the waterfall was in great shape after the rain - and then on up Pen-y-Ghent. Absolutely spectacular day. Endless blue sky and a low sun giving the landscape a spectacular glow. Views forever. Ingleborough, Whernside and Pendle Hill all visible at once. A surprisingly challenging clamber down to the south, but got down with all kids intact, and back to Horton in the wintry gloaming. Venus and a bright crescent moon illuminated the drive home.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
Because it was people like you who covered it up. Can you honestly, really honestly, look back and say that you would have been a whistle blower had you seen what was going on? This is your ilk that has covered it up in the name of "community relations" and they looked the other way or in some cases prosecuted parents who wanted their children out of the hands of these rapists. I don't believe, from the posts you have written on here, that you would have been a whistle blower. In fact I believe you would have been an active participant in the cover up and justified it as being a "lesser evil" than "racists" targeting Muslims who perpetrated this evil.
Who knows what other people would do, but you're leveling a pretty harsh accusation.
Yes, I realise it's a harsh accusation but he's also the guy who attempts to shut down all discussion of the lab leak,
(snip)
Rubbish. He did not ''attempt to shut down all discussion of the lab leak". He had a different view on it that you and Leon, and argued his view just as passionately as you two did.
No I mean from at the time of the pandemic when he was shutting down the discussion as "racist" and "listen to the experts and stfu" after that dodgy letter in the Lancet.
I honestly cannot remember that, but it was crazy times. However: are you sure you are not shutting down debate now with your absolute 100% certainty that it was them evil Chinese in their lab?
Not shutting it down, I just think that people who are adamant it wasn't a lab leak are part of the establishment who would be quite happy to cover things up. I've always said I'm open to the idea of it not being a lab leak, I just don't see these outlandish "a bat kissed a pangolin and then a Chinese guy had sex with the pangolin" ideas as realistic.
I believe I've seen him write posts where he says it could be a lab leak, but he thinks, on the balance of probabilities, it was a 'natural' occurrence from the wet market. I daresay he'll correct me if I'm wrong.
The problem is people like Leon, who are so incredibly adamant, in their 'expert' view, that it was a lab leak, that anyone who argues it may not have been sound entrenched the other way.
My own somewhat controversial view: we'll probably never know for sure where it originated, and it does not matter much. It could have come from either the wet market or lab; so in future we need to try to ensure that it cannot occur in either again. Close the wet markets and similar, and tighten restrictions and procedures at labs.
I recently had a walk around a wet market and frankly we're lucky we haven't something much worse than Covid out of one. Perhaps a sensible first step would not be to have any wet markets close to pathogen labs...
I suspect Zuckerberg's need to suck up to Trump a bit is not unconnected
Yes, I saw an interview with Clegg recently where he still seemed to be in 'stand up to populism' mode wheras Zuckerberg has evolved in a different direction.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
Because it was people like you who covered it up. Can you honestly, really honestly, look back and say that you would have been a whistle blower had you seen what was going on? This is your ilk that has covered it up in the name of "community relations" and they looked the other way or in some cases prosecuted parents who wanted their children out of the hands of these rapists. I don't believe, from the posts you have written on here, that you would have been a whistle blower. In fact I believe you would have been an active participant in the cover up and justified it as being a "lesser evil" than "racists" targeting Muslims who perpetrated this evil.
Who knows what other people would do, but you're leveling a pretty harsh accusation.
Yes, I realise it's a harsh accusation but he's also the guy who attempts to shut down all discussion of the lab leak, he's previously said that it's racist to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population in the UK and between both of those things I have come to the conclusion that he would have been one of those people who proclaimed to be uncomfortable with what was happening but saw it as a lesser evil than whistle blowing and potentially causing a lot of upheaval for Muslims across northern cities.
I engage in discussion about the lab leak hypothesis. You want to talk about the lab leak hypothesis, go ahead. I will disagree with you. I won’t call you a paedophile enabler.
I’ve never said it’s racist to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population. Prove otherwise. I said it was wrong to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population because that’s not happening.
You are saying that someone who disagrees with you on a topic of virology and another of demographics is therefore deeply evil and would cover up horrendous crimes. That is pretty sick, Max.
Leaving Max's surmise about what you might or might not have done about Rotherham to one side, I was genuinely disturbed by your list of 'solutions' that should flow from the Covid experience.
Even in the vanishingly unlikely scenario that Covid was caused by a chance Zoonotic event, the very presence of a US lab (or several) in China, studying how to make coronaviruses more transmissible and more deadly, is surely still hugely problematical in its very existence, given what we now know. Gain of function research was banned in the USA for being too dangerous. That it was then quietly internationalised is a scandal of epic proportions, and that Communist China, the West's biggest geopolitical rival was selected as a location for such projects is beyond scandalous. I found it astonishing that you made no suggestion of any changes or modification to that activity, suggesting instead greater investment in emergency health capacity and vaccines so that we can all have a ventilator and get our shots when the next one hits.
You also afaicr completely failed to address the question of non-covid related harms resulting from lockdown, such as mental health issues, suicide, child development issues, and the large numbers of non-covid deaths.
We are here on PB to be exposed to debate and different views, and it's to your credit that you come here and do that, but I would suggest that if many of your coworkers share very similar views, without your exposure to different ideas, they are severely misaligned with both the wishes of the people they serve, and with morality.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
Because it was people like you who covered it up. Can you honestly, really honestly, look back and say that you would have been a whistle blower had you seen what was going on? This is your ilk that has covered it up in the name of "community relations" and they looked the other way or in some cases prosecuted parents who wanted their children out of the hands of these rapists. I don't believe, from the posts you have written on here, that you would have been a whistle blower. In fact I believe you would have been an active participant in the cover up and justified it as being a "lesser evil" than "racists" targeting Muslims who perpetrated this evil.
Who knows what other people would do, but you're leveling a pretty harsh accusation.
Yes, I realise it's a harsh accusation but he's also the guy who attempts to shut down all discussion of the lab leak, he's previously said that it's racist to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population in the UK and between both of those things I have come to the conclusion that he would have been one of those people who proclaimed to be uncomfortable with what was happening but saw it as a lesser evil than whistle blowing and potentially causing a lot of upheaval for Muslims across northern cities.
I engage in discussion about the lab leak hypothesis. You want to talk about the lab leak hypothesis, go ahead. I will disagree with you. I won’t call you a paedophile enabler.
I’ve never said it’s racist to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population. Prove otherwise. I said it was wrong to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population because that’s not happening.
You are saying that someone who disagrees with you on a topic of virology and another of demographics is therefore deeply evil and would cover up horrendous crimes. That is pretty sick, Max.
As I said, really very honestly put yourself in 2003 when this was all happening and being covered up. You saw some evidence of what was occuring and you initially put it up the chain (which is fine) and then you get told to shut up otherwise the racists will attack Muslims and you'll be out of a job and branded a racist yourself by everyone and ostracised by the wider left as an Islamophobe. I want you to have a really honest look at the situation and think about what you would have done. Would you have been the person that put your head above the parapet? I don't think so. You fear being labelled a racist, that much has been clear for for a while. While I can't look you in the eye and ask you this I do hope you give me an honest answer. If you say you would have been the whistleblower then I'll accept that and drop it, if you say you wouldn't I'll also accept that and drop it on the basis that 99/100 people took that option.
Fuck off, Max.
I'm sorry it's an uncomfortable conversation for you, my conscience is clear. I rather think your one is less so. Either way, I'll drop the subject.
How this develops might tell us if Musk and Farage are a team or not. Farage will not want to be coupled with Robinson. So let's see if Musk keeps up the Robinson ramping or drops him.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
When I was a child of 9 we moved to Berwick on Tweed in 1953 and the cold was penetrative in winter
My father used to go down to the living room first thing in the morning and light the coal fire which had a back boiler
We only had a two bar electric fire and eventually warm water, but it was notable that often with frost on the inside of our bedroom windows we got dressed under the bedclothes
My wife recounted the same story at her home in Lossiemouth, and in those days you just put on lots of layers, woolly hats and mittens, and got on with it
How times change, but at least we didn't suffer expensive heating bills, just dealt with the cold in our own way
Yes clearly lots of PBers made best they could in tough winters with few luxuries and no central heating, including you BigG.
Though we do seem to have gone a bit 4 Yorkshiremen this evening
The thing is you do not miss luxuries as they were not there or invented
Indeed we only had our first very small black and white TV that year, but we were happy and did not have to deal with the influences of social media and 24/7 news and of course you would love it that the TV closed down each night with the national anthem and if my grandmother was around she would immediately stand up and to attention
As a young lad I found this quite comical, and used to tease her about it and she in turn would 'snitch' on me if she had looked after myself and my sister when my mother and father were out in the evening
My grandfather used to stand to attention similarly. There was no teasing him. My brother reminded me the other day that he would also have us redo our shoelaces if they were criss-cross rather than transverse across the upper.
I think my general disinterest in royalty came from those days, but my grandfather was a professional soldier and loyalty to the crown was natural for my grandmother
My grandfather was a conscript in the artillery and fought against the Turks as Allenby (?) conquered Damascus and Jerusalem. He was then dispatched to North Italy. In civvy street he was a civil servant. The family though has a long professional soldiering tradition - just NCOs - Scots Guards mostly I think. Also some park wardening - one of them was the chief warden in Hyde Park, and lived in one of the small lodges there. Just the functionaries though - after some years service he was awarded a ceremonial truncheon.
I quite like the Royals on the whole, but I do think those of us with families of long service in their cause ought to be invited in for a cuppa now and then.
Have to say I'm really enjoying Elon Musk trolling the Labour government and ministers. It's very enjoyable seeing the boot on the other foot after 14 years of Labour surrogates in the BBC, charities and think tanks attacking the Tory government under the guise of neutrality. Hope he keeps it up and uses the giant bully pulpit of Twitter to constantly hurt Labour and Starmer.
Are you also enjoying Musk's recent membership of the Tommy Robinson fan club?
I'm not really that fussed, as long as it hurts Labour and contributes their demise. The party that covers up rape gangs because they need their votes, seems like a solid brand for them.
Shame on you Max.
Tommy Robinson very nearly derailed one criminal trial of some of the rapists with his antics. Thus showing that he couldn't give a stuff about the victims because if that trial had been derailed they would either have seen the rapists go free or have to go through the whole ghastly experience of giving evidence all over again.
He doesn't give two hoots about children who are sexually abused. He uses it as away of grifting money from deluded supporters and attacking Muslims and people from Pakistan. He's a tawdry racist and Musk supporting him without bothering to research the reality of the man speaks very ill of him.
And yet if it were up to the likes of @bondegezou the whole thing would never have come to light and all of the people trying to whistleblow would have been shut down and threatened. The rape gangs would still be out there continuing with tacit support from the police and Labour councils to avoid "community tensions". It's the establishment that covered it up and is trying it's hardest to keep the story out of the media to protect themselves for all of the failures. So if Musk is ruffling their feathers then more power to him. Every single person who was involved in covering up the rape gangs or thought that the cover up was "justified" in the name of "community relations" should not only be nowhere near any kind of power, they should be in jail for a very, very long time.
Labour is protecting their own councillors and voters by covering it up and if Musk makes some of their lives more difficult or difficult enough that they top themselves then that's a good outcome. They oversaw the rape and coverup of thousands of girls being raped because the rapists were Muslim and they didn't want to upset Muslim voters. In any other country all of those people responsible would be hounded to suicide, here we just tut at the people trying to get them put in prison.
If you are going to make unpleasant accusations, what about you try to explain yourself, Max? In what way would the likes of me have stopped this coming to light? What makes you think that I would cover up horrendous illegal activity like this? How am I responsible for any of this or anything like this?
I agree. One of the more unpleasant posts on here as is the one by cyclefree on the last thread. The one featuring the line.......
"......Philippson railing against inherited privilege when her only job before becoming an MP was in Mummy's charity. lol."
Yuck!
Hereditary privilege is a big thing in the labour party.
Here's Bridget Phillipson's CV. Maybe we could see cyclefree's if she thinks it's so deserving of ridicule?
It does feel rather laboured. I mean, I grew up in a house that had no heating upstairs, and went to a comprehensive school (one that was going through a bad patch) and then went off to uni, got a first, worked as a civil servant and a lecturer, then went into teaching and now run my own business.
None of that makes me poor or deserving of special praise. In fact, I'd say I have a pretty affluent background one way and another and I certainly wouldn't have dared to walk out of a well-paid teaching job no matter how miserable we all were and start on my own without a bit of capital behind me.
And although I had lots of help from my parents none of my actual work was for them.
{finds a double case of magnums of Chateaux De Chasseliere}
You ‘ad central heating?
Well, I say central 'eating, 'twas only an open fire that went up a chimney in t'middle of t'ouse, but to us it were like central heating.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Grandad had a coal fire, and 5-year-old me had great fun sitting in front of it and using the poker to make sparks fly. We had a gas fire. Neither had central heating. No phone. No car. Black and white telly. But as Billy Connolly said, we didn't know we were poor.
We had a gas fridge when I was young.
We had a stone shelf in a larder.
So you had a larder? Luxury.
You know what luxury is? Luxury!
Luxury isn’t what it was. To us, luxury was when the gruel was warmed up for us to sip. Christmas Day, that was.
I used to hear second-hand tales of those that got to sip gruel. Warmed up! Never knew warmth was even possible!
Walked round a wet market in Zanzibar. Unsurprisingly lacking in basic (first world) hygiene. If you expect H&S inspection at every turn you should get out more
Comments
https://www.gbnews.com/news/uk/manchester-child-abuse-grooming-gangs-rochdale-latest
Maggie Oliver, the Rochdale whistleblower who quit the force in 2012 to expose police failures in dealing with abuse gangs, told GB News that she was troubled by “unacceptable and inhumane delays” to justice.
https://www.gbnews.com/news/rotherham-grooming-gang-survivor-court-clash-rapists-sentences-reduced
A survivor of the Rotherham grooming gangs abuse scandal clashed with the relatives of an abuser outside court following a resentencing, GB News can reveal.
The dramatic altercation took place after two rapists convicted of attacking a girl from the age of 11 had their sentences reduced after a judicial error.
But I think there's also room for a principled abstentionism. If you genuinely don't know which way to vote, then there's a logic for leaving the decision to the collective will of your fellow citizens, and trusting their judgement.
(Yes, we really did have - and use - an open coal fire, but we did have proper central heating too.)
Why now ? People are saying online it is due to a happy clappy, how wonderful multi cultural Britain is, article in The Spectator.
You have to forget all that you thought you knew about politics and ideology. There are only two things that matter now. Are you one of us? And how deep into your pockets will your hands reach?
Tommy is a member of the tribe. The politics, the legal process - none of that matters.
We're in Trump's world now. Different rules apply.
https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1874885748262052117?s=61
It's an argument an outsider can possibly make - arguing that both parties failed victims by not making it a national cause celebre that cut through process and should hold an inquiry. But not a Tory leader given what it implies about governments she was happy to support.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20935502
Badenoch is attacking Phillips who is actually following Tory Policy in terms of regional enquiries.
Tories actively blocked national enquiry for 14 years.
Farage is at grave risk of being usurped by his nemesis Tommy Robinson in terms of Musk supporting Robinson views on the issue.
Can see turning in to a shit show for Farage and Badenoch if Robinson orcestrates more riots.
The great decent and honest UK public will always support law and order, even from. PM they may not naturally support if he acts as he did in August against hate racism and overseas infiltration into our politics.
One mad racist with far too much time on his hands and a tendency to shoot his stupid mouth off in exchange for, well, another one.
Farage and Robinson are a mutual hate society.
Musk of course doesn't understand this or doesn't care.
Why does he use so many different names?
(*) As you can tell, nothing much has changed.
Mrs Flatlander's dad must have been an early adopter of central heating given he installed his own when it first became a thing some time in the 60s. Still have the brochure!
However, my family had a gas fire downstairs that also did the hot water, an electric fire in the kitchen, and pretty much no heating upstairs apart from a dodgy wall heater in the bathroom which you had to turn on 15 minutes before braving the conditions. Iced up windows was definitely a thing.
You got used to what you had, though. I think this is where we go wrong now. Making do is not so much a thing...
My father used to go down to the living room first thing in the morning and light the coal fire which had a back boiler
We only had a two bar electric fire and eventually warm water, but it was notable that often with frost on the inside of our bedroom windows we got dressed under the bedclothes
My wife recounted the same story at her home in Lossiemouth, and in those days you just put on lots of layers, woolly hats and mittens, and got on with it
How times change, but at least we didn't suffer expensive heating bills, just dealt with the cold in our own way
Perhaps Musk should spend a bit more time on his (main) day job, rather than being a political fuckwit commenting on British and German affairs?
Also winter days in junior school when the one-third pint bottles of milk froze and the crate had to be put in front of the wood-burning stove to thaw.
Nostalgia. It was just how things were.
Edited for typo
My parents rented their flat. It had no central heating. The landlord was a bastard and neglected to look after it. After my father died, conditions were so bad that it was declared unfit for human habitation under the 1952 Housing Act. The landlord tried to evict my mother so he could sell it. It was one of the reasons I went into the law - so that I could fight back against people like him and help people like my mother. My first volunteering job was doing just that at the North Ken Law Centre. Both parents were born overseas. My father was Irish at a time when this was not fashionable and he was sneered at by the likes of people like you. I was orphaned at the age of 20.
Every job I ever got I got on merit on the basis of my qualities and what I had to offer. No-one in my family or their friends gave me a job (apart from one Saturday job when I was 16).
So I am entitled to be scornful of those people who game the property system in this country to benefit themselves and their children while sanctimoniously claiming to be against "privilege".
https://x.com/mrrbourne/status/1874587142816694676
I don't think many U.K. commentators have really got to grips with the extent of the vibe shift in the US and the implications for their own politics.
There’s an argument for a public enquiry - but one with the scope she proposed would probably not report this Parliament. Which is perhaps the idea ?
There is a need to discuss immigration in a non-confrontational manner. Unless we get the language right we are in danger of not being able to deal with the consequences effectively.
I’m in Spain at the moment but could easily be Portugal, Italy or Greece. Wherever I have been in the last 18 months I see the same groups of young men either wandering or selling trinkets at the side of the road. They are detached from the society in which they now live and will be an issue unless they are integrated, recognised or returned. It’s a continent issue and not a local one. Rawanda was clearly nonsense but the language got in the way of a solution.
Though we do seem to have gone a bit 4 Yorkshiremen this evening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHFZBUTA4k
https://x.com/nickclegg/status/1874891832653443269
I’ve never said it’s racist to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population. Prove otherwise. I said it was wrong to worry about a very fast growing Muslim population because that’s not happening.
You are saying that someone who disagrees with you on a topic of virology and another of demographics is therefore deeply evil and would cover up horrendous crimes. That is pretty sick, Max.
Where grammar schools remain they are in counties and local authorities that mostly had Tory councils in the 1960s and 1970s eg Kent, Trafford, Bucks, Bromley, Lincolnshire, Rugby, Ripon, Poole etc
Aaron Bastani
@AaronBastani
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35m
Wolfgang Munchau is the best German economics and finance journalists working in English. He was at the Financial Times for decades.
When I asked him if the AFD could form a government in Germany. He answered without hesitation: yes.
https://x.com/AaronBastani/status/1874894162535055577
https://www.iicsa.org.uk/about-us/timeline.html
What exactly is she asking for? And why?
And does she realise that it was her colleague who flatly refused to implement IICSA's recommendations? Did she protest about this at the time?
Indeed we only had our first very small black and white TV that year, but we were happy and did not have to deal with the influences of social media and 24/7 news and of course you would love it that the TV closed down each night with the national anthem and if my grandmother was around she would immediately stand up and to attention
As a young lad I found this quite comical, and used to tease her about it and she in turn would 'snitch' on me if she had looked after myself and my sister when my mother and father were out in the evening
https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/1874851102858031234
The problem is people like Leon, who are so incredibly adamant, in their 'expert' view, that it was a lab leak, that anyone who argues it may not have been sound entrenched the other way.
My own somewhat controversial view: we'll probably never know for sure where it originated, and it does not matter much. It could have come from either the wet market or lab; so in future we need to try to ensure that it cannot occur in either again. Close the wet markets and similar, and tighten restrictions and procedures at labs.
It is a great shame as for a while he posted a very nice, educated, informed point of view from a “younger” Tory. But no longer.
1.) The initial failings by police and the councils were shocking but brought to light and were largely, if imperfectly as ever, addressed under the previous government. There will always be work to do but we had the inquiries and reports, people have gone to jail and police practices changed.
2.) The failures weren't addressed but swept under the carpet for the sake of not upsetting Muslim communities and the scandal so great, ongoing and widespread that it warrants an immediate national inquiry. Labour and Tory politicians are both guilty, the former having ignored the initial problems and the latter for not raising the alarm more widely after the seriousness of the issue became obvious.
It's obvious why 2.) is Farage's position. It's difficult to see how it's one that can work for Badenoch or the Tories given it would make her party, and thus herself, in part resonsible for the unforgivable.
New Syrian government's school curriculum changes spark concern
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1ln12056ppo
I’d be happy whoever won but I’d like Stephen Bunting to win. Especially as he had considered giving up a while back.
Why is it unrealistic that, in an area where many different species and animals are thrust close together in poor conditions, that new diseases may rapidly develop and spread?
But the reality is you just can't bear any woman on here having an opinion of her own, unless she agrees with you of course. So you go for personal insults. It's not the first time you've done it when it comes to me. It's pretty tiresome, frankly.
Over time, the evidence that COVID-19 came from the wet market has increased. I might once have talked about the balance of probabilities. I wouldn’t now, in 2025. It is exceedingly unlikely that COVID-19 was anything other than a zoonotic event, just like the vast majority of novel disease pandemics.
I think most epidemiologists would broadly agree with the point you make at the end. It doesn’t matter much. We should try to avoid it happening again. Such a thing could happen from a lab leak and we should take appropriate caution to avoid that. It could also happen from a zoonotic event and we should try to avoid that.
It is unfortunate that a point of epidemiological investigation has, like so many other things, been captured by culture war nonsense, such that expressing a view on COVID-19 origins gets you labelled a paedophile enabler.
It struck me as one of those odd things that mark one country out as being different to another. In Ireland it's that they play the Angelus at noon and 6pm on some radio and TV stations.
Anyway, they had a phone-in on Irish radio about the shipping forecast today - 100 year anniversary of the first radio broadcast of the shipping forecast - and so they played that song from the radio (although they didn't follow it up with the Royal news and the national anthem, reprobate Republicans that they are).
It was the first thing that made me feel a bit nostalgic about living in Britain. Not what I expected to miss to be honest.
Started unpromisingly with both pubs and both cafes in Horton in Ribblesdale closed, forcing us five miles up the road for lunch to the Station Inn at Ribbleshead. Which turned out to be even better than I remembered from my last visit 20 years ago. So a happy outcome there. Then back to H-i-R and a walk up to Hull Pot (England's largest hole in the ground) which I have always wanted to see - the waterfall was in great shape after the rain - and then on up Pen-y-Ghent. Absolutely spectacular day. Endless blue sky and a low sun giving the landscape a spectacular glow. Views forever. Ingleborough, Whernside and Pendle Hill all visible at once. A surprisingly challenging clamber down to the south, but got down with all kids intact, and back to Horton in the wintry gloaming. Venus and a bright crescent moon illuminated the drive home.
Even in the vanishingly unlikely scenario that Covid was caused by a chance Zoonotic event, the very presence of a US lab (or several) in China, studying how to make coronaviruses more transmissible and more deadly, is surely still hugely problematical in its very existence, given what we now know. Gain of function research was banned in the USA for being too dangerous. That it was then quietly internationalised is a scandal of epic proportions, and that Communist China, the West's biggest geopolitical rival was selected as a location for such projects is beyond scandalous. I found it astonishing that you made no suggestion of any changes or modification to that activity, suggesting instead greater investment in emergency health capacity and vaccines so that we can all have a ventilator and get our shots when the next one hits.
You also afaicr completely failed to address the question of non-covid related harms resulting from lockdown, such as mental health issues, suicide, child development issues, and the large numbers of non-covid deaths.
We are here on PB to be exposed to debate and different views, and it's to your credit that you come here and do that, but I would suggest that if many of your coworkers share very similar views, without your exposure to different ideas, they are severely misaligned with both the wishes of the people they serve, and with morality.
Robinson is an unadulterated thug.
If they hung him you'd feel sorry for the rope.
I quite like the Royals on the whole, but I do think those of us with families of long service in their cause ought to be invited in for a cuppa now and then.