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The polling you’ve all been waiting for – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172

    Sean_F said:

    I am shocked to learn that Bashar Al-Assad has £55 million in a HSBC account.

    Who would have thought the bank who were the bankers for, inter alia, Hezbollah and the IRGC would be the bank of choice for Assad?

    It’s a shame that BCCI no longer exist, for people like Assad. At my first law firm, we used to call them the Bank of Crack and Cocaine, much to the annoyance of the partner who worked for them.

    Mind you, I’d have thought Goldman Sachs or Deutsche Bank would be the best fit for Assad.
    If the Russian economy tanks/The Bank of Russia runs out of money I would be shocked to see Deutsche Bank have problems.
    Douche Bank has er….. donated to everyone in German politics. If they ran into serious trouble all kinds of interesting things would come out. So they would be bailed out no matter what.

    To Dodgy To Fail.
    This will end well.

    TRUMP TEAM SEEK TO CONSOLIDATE OR ELIMINATE BANK WATCHDOGS
    https://x.com/NewsWire_US/status/1867555259918266826

    Get your shitcoin while stocks last.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420

    Very, very tired tropes on here today about right-wingers being fascists and racists.

    We've heard that nonsense over 20 years.

    Wasn't true then and isn't true now.

    No. People are saying Nigel Farage and Isabel Oakeshott are fascists and racists, not right-wingers.
  • Another thing to remember about autonomous cars: a vast amount of money has already been spent on the technology. Well over a $100 billion. Whilst the tech will be transformative if it can be made to work as well as they promise, I find it hard to see that much profit coming back through car sales. A couple of companies may get the magic formula; a lot of others are going to lose their shirts.

    Which is the problem for many new tech investments.

    And why people claiming 'investment' is the answer to every problem are wrong.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    Very, very tired tropes on here today about right-wingers being fascists and racists.

    We've heard that nonsense over 20 years.

    Wasn't true then and isn't true now.

    I haven't even referred to Farage as Nigel Fuhrer yet.

    These Reformers are political opponent of yours. Come in, enjoy the show!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Nigelb said:

    For the self-driving sceptics.
    It already looks pretty well unstoppable in large urban centres.

    Waymo's market share is now equal to Lyft within SF. Incredible.

    Network effects is one of the best sources of defensibility. But it's proven to be not that important in ridesharing.

    You need a minimum network size, but once you have that, there are diminishing returns. In each geo, Uber and Lyft need enough drivers to have reasonable wait times. Once wait times hit that acceptable threshold, the incremental driver doesn't improve the rider experience (eg if my Uber ride is coming in 2-4 minutes, I don't really care about the wait times getting faster).

    When Waymo launched in August 2023, Uber and Lyft were at 66% and 34% share in SF.

    15 months later in November 2024, Waymo is at 22% - the same as Lyft - with Uber at 55%.

    Both Uber and Lyft lost low double digit % pts of market share, but it's more painful for Lyft. Lyft gave up ~1/3 of their share. Uber lost ~1/6...

    https://x.com/aleximm/status/1867257473671082356

    This is why Tesla are building Robotaxis. Automation will roll out, and when it does the likes of Uber will happily remove the human factor and simply have the whole network automated.
    I predicted self driving cars taking over, ten years ago. Unfortunately I predicted they’d be here in five years. On that basis expect whatever I predict to happen, to happen, but double my time estimate
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668

    I am shocked to learn that Bashar Al-Assad has £55 million in a HSBC account.

    Who would have thought the bank who were the bankers for, inter alia, Hezbollah and the IRGC would be the bank of choice for Assad?

    I love the way HSBC rolls out the red carpet for all sorts of dodgy folk, I try and buy a few nice bottles of wine for Christmas the other day and I got flagged for fraudulent activity....
    Get yourself an AMEX they are the best for dealing with stuff.
    Except no-one accepts the bloody thing.

    Very, very tired tropes on here today about right-wingers being fascists and racists.

    We've heard that nonsense over 20 years.

    Wasn't true then and isn't true now.

    No. People are saying Nigel Farage and Isabel Oakeshott are fascists and racists, not right-wingers.
    Which is utter nonsense.
  • @Casino_Royale question in good faith, do you think those rioters and those who egged it on weren’t at least partially motivated by racism?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668

    Very, very tired tropes on here today about right-wingers being fascists and racists.

    We've heard that nonsense over 20 years.

    Wasn't true then and isn't true now.

    I haven't even referred to Farage as Nigel Fuhrer yet.

    These Reformers are political opponent of yours. Come in, enjoy the show!
    Yes, but you fuel it with silly comments like that - not inhibit it.

    Nigel Farage isn't a fascist or a racist. He can be loudmouth pub bore, boorish and chauvinistic, but that's not the same thing.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, I wonder if Badenoch doesn’t realise a bagel isn’t a sandwich? That might explain her error.

    On topic I wonder if Badenoch truly is as politically dense as she appears. There are an endless list of things she could attack Labour over. Instead she’s attacking herself.
    This is the problem. At the moment, I sense she won't last.

    What she wants to do is spend 2 years developing lots of detailed policies and then roll them out and hope that wins an election.
    I don’t want to be overly cynical, but does having detailed policies win you an election?
    Good question. But more important is setting out your vision, stall as a leader, priorities and framing the debate.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668

    @Casino_Royale question in good faith, do you think those rioters and those who egged it on weren’t at least partially motivated by racism?

    I'm not debating the riots or the rioters.

    I'm challenging the tired trope of fingerpointing racist and fascist at right-wing politicians.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Who is this 1% that ‘hates’ sandwiches?!
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,944

    @Casino_Royale question in good faith, do you think those rioters and those who egged it on weren’t at least partially motivated by racism?

    I'm not debating the riots or the rioters.

    I'm challenging the tired trope of fingerpointing racist and fascist at right-wing politicians.
    If the cap fits...

    Left wing is often used as a term of abuse.
  • Another thing to remember about autonomous cars: a vast amount of money has already been spent on the technology. Well over a $100 billion. Whilst the tech will be transformative if it can be made to work as well as they promise, I find it hard to see that much profit coming back through car sales. A couple of companies may get the magic formula; a lot of others are going to lose their shirts.

    It's not just the tech, though. I was reading a report recently by a female reporter who'd taken automated taxis in San Francisco. One arrived with a cock and balls scrawled across the side. While in another, she was involved in an unpleasant incident in which two men stood in front of the car preventing it from moving. After a while they wandered off, but for a while she thought she was going to be robbed or worse.
  • @Casino_Royale question in good faith, do you think those rioters and those who egged it on weren’t at least partially motivated by racism?

    I'm not debating the riots or the rioters.

    I'm challenging the tired trope of fingerpointing racist and fascist at right-wing politicians.
    But do you agree that the rioters were racist and so therefore were the riots? I’m not trying to trip you up, I just think it’s hard to legitimately argue they weren’t.

    I’m not saying right wing politicians are racist or fascist but I think it’s hard to state in this case that what say Isobel Oakeshott said wasn’t racist?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934

    I am shocked to learn that Bashar Al-Assad has £55 million in a HSBC account.

    Who would have thought the bank who were the bankers for, inter alia, Hezbollah and the IRGC would be the bank of choice for Assad?

    I love the way HSBC rolls out the red carpet for all sorts of dodgy folk, I try and buy a few nice bottles of wine for Christmas the other day and I got flagged for fraudulent activity....
    Get yourself an AMEX they are the best for dealing with stuff.
    A friend's young son went to the US with a couple mates, twenty odd years ago.

    One of the other lads was given an AMEX black card by his father - "just in case".

    Well, on the day of 9/11, as they were walking in Manhattan to have breakfast in the Windows on the World restaurant at the World Trade Centre, it came in very handy. He remembered his father saying AMEX offices had a satellite phone. So when the mobile networks went down, he was able to go to their office and let their parents know they had overslept and so hadn't got to the WTC...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    edited December 14
    Just been boning up on the details of the fateful French budget for an article, and it’s remarkable how familiar some of the themes are.

    Social security tax changes hitting low paid work. Reversal of tax breaks on domestic electricity rather like WFA, fiscal drag, though also a couple of taxes for very high paid individuals.

    Always good to know things could be even worse. Our deficit is over 4%. Theirs is touching 6%. The USA’s is over 6% and net debt is 130% of GDP. Next year if even half of Trump’s tax promises are actually delivered it’ll balloon to Japanese levels.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143
    TimS said:

    Just been boning up on the details of the fateful French budget for an article, and it’s remarkable how familiar some of the themes are.

    Social security tax changes hitting low paid work. Reversal of tax breaks on domestic electricity rather like WFA, fiscal drag, though also a couple of taxes for very high paid individuals.

    Always good to know things could be even worse. Our deficit is over 4%. Theirs is touching 6%. The USA’s is over 6% and net debt is 130% of GDP.

    Its almost as if the economy is largely driven by demographics rather than politicians.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970

    Very, very tired tropes on here today about right-wingers being fascists and racists.

    We've heard that nonsense over 20 years.

    Wasn't true then and isn't true now.

    I haven't even referred to Farage as Nigel Fuhrer yet.

    These Reformers are political opponent of yours. Come in, enjoy the show!
    Yes, but you fuel it with silly comments like that - not inhibit it.

    Nigel Farage isn't a fascist or a racist. He can be loudmouth pub bore, boorish and chauvinistic, but that's not the same thing.
    If that is the case he should dissociate himself from Isabel Oatshott and her interviewer on TalkTV. A blind man on a galloping camel can see they are both racist and it is they who made the connection to being 'Right-Wing'
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143

    @Casino_Royale question in good faith, do you think those rioters and those who egged it on weren’t at least partially motivated by racism?

    I'm not debating the riots or the rioters.

    I'm challenging the tired trope of fingerpointing racist and fascist at right-wing politicians.
    If the cap fits...

    Left wing is often used as a term of abuse.
    Try being a wishy washy boring wet centrist. Its tough.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    edited December 14

    TimS said:

    Just been boning up on the details of the fateful French budget for an article, and it’s remarkable how familiar some of the themes are.

    Social security tax changes hitting low paid work. Reversal of tax breaks on domestic electricity rather like WFA, fiscal drag, though also a couple of taxes for very high paid individuals.

    Always good to know things could be even worse. Our deficit is over 4%. Theirs is touching 6%. The USA’s is over 6% and net debt is 130% of GDP.

    Its almost as if the economy is largely driven by demographics rather than politicians.
    Precisely the gist of my upcoming column (which I’ve now sent off for editing). Demographics plus a series of really quite profound fiscal shocks: financial crisis, Eurozone crisis, Brexit (which affected the EU too), Covid, Ukraine. Few countries would easily navigate that poly-whammy.
  • TimS said:

    Just been boning up on the details of the fateful French budget for an article, and it’s remarkable how familiar some of the themes are.

    Social security tax changes hitting low paid work. Reversal of tax breaks on domestic electricity rather like WFA, fiscal drag, though also a couple of taxes for very high paid individuals.

    Always good to know things could be even worse. Our deficit is over 4%. Theirs is touching 6%. The USA’s is over 6% and net debt is 130% of GDP. Next year if even half of Trump’s tax promises are actually delivered it’ll balloon to Japanese levels.

    With the answer being the same:

    Increased taxes on property and the rich
    Reduced spending on oldies and the poor
    Higher productivity and a delayed state retirement age for workers

    No exceptions, everyone must suffer and be seen to suffer.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Another thing to remember about autonomous cars: a vast amount of money has already been spent on the technology. Well over a $100 billion. Whilst the tech will be transformative if it can be made to work as well as they promise, I find it hard to see that much profit coming back through car sales. A couple of companies may get the magic formula; a lot of others are going to lose their shirts.

    It's not just the tech, though. I was reading a report recently by a female reporter who'd taken automated taxis in San Francisco. One arrived with a cock and balls scrawled across the side. While in another, she was involved in an unpleasant incident in which two men stood in front of the car preventing it from moving. After a while they wandered off, but for a while she thought she was going to be robbed or worse.
    And here’s an alternative account by another female reporter

    “It’s wild to me that self-driving cars are still a novelty to many.

    I’ve had @Waymo access for a year and just took my 300th ride.

    It’s completely replaced my driving and Ubers in SF - I take 7 rides / week when in town!”

    “Friends sometimes ask why Waymo?

    IMO, the experience is 10x better in many ways.

    You never have to worry about a creepy or unsafe driver. The cars arrive on time. You don’t feel bad about taking calls. You pick the music and temperature.

    I hope they’re everywhere soon!”

    https://x.com/venturetwins/status/1866322967581581776?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Roger said:

    Very, very tired tropes on here today about right-wingers being fascists and racists.

    We've heard that nonsense over 20 years.

    Wasn't true then and isn't true now.

    I haven't even referred to Farage as Nigel Fuhrer yet.

    These Reformers are political opponent of yours. Come in, enjoy the show!
    Yes, but you fuel it with silly comments like that - not inhibit it.

    Nigel Farage isn't a fascist or a racist. He can be loudmouth pub bore, boorish and chauvinistic, but that's not the same thing.
    If that is the case he should dissociate himself from Isabel Oatshott and her interviewer on TalkTV. A blind man on a galloping camel can see they are both racist and it is they who made the connection to being 'Right-Wing'
    "racist"

    how quaint, I'd forgotten the 1980s
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Just been boning up on the details of the fateful French budget for an article, and it’s remarkable how familiar some of the themes are.

    Social security tax changes hitting low paid work. Reversal of tax breaks on domestic electricity rather like WFA, fiscal drag, though also a couple of taxes for very high paid individuals.

    Always good to know things could be even worse. Our deficit is over 4%. Theirs is touching 6%. The USA’s is over 6% and net debt is 130% of GDP.

    Its almost as if the economy is largely driven by demographics rather than politicians.
    Precisely the gist of my upcoming column (which I’ve now sent off for editing). Demographics plus a series of really quite profound fiscal shocks: financial crisis, Eurozone crisis, Brexit (which affected the EU too), Covid, Ukraine. Few countries would easily navigate that poly-whammy.
    If you frame it that way, then the central question of Western politics could be whether mass immigration is solving a demographic problem or creating one.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    Also noteworthy that Barnier lasted precisely 2 Trusses. 90 days. The shortest prime ministerial term in French history.
  • @Casino_Royale question in good faith, do you think those rioters and those who egged it on weren’t at least partially motivated by racism?

    I'm not debating the riots or the rioters.

    I'm challenging the tired trope of fingerpointing racist and fascist at right-wing politicians.
    But do you agree that the rioters were racist and so therefore were the riots? I’m not trying to trip you up, I just think it’s hard to legitimately argue they weren’t.

    I’m not saying right wing politicians are racist or fascist but I think it’s hard to state in this case that what say Isobel Oakeshott said wasn’t racist?
    Some of the rioters were racist and some were not but all of them were people who wanted to riot.

    They were the sort of people who a few decades ago would be doing their fighting at demonstrations, on picket lines, at football matches and in town centres on Saturday nights.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Just been boning up on the details of the fateful French budget for an article, and it’s remarkable how familiar some of the themes are.

    Social security tax changes hitting low paid work. Reversal of tax breaks on domestic electricity rather like WFA, fiscal drag, though also a couple of taxes for very high paid individuals.

    Always good to know things could be even worse. Our deficit is over 4%. Theirs is touching 6%. The USA’s is over 6% and net debt is 130% of GDP.

    Its almost as if the economy is largely driven by demographics rather than politicians.
    Precisely the gist of my upcoming column (which I’ve now sent off for editing). Demographics plus a series of really quite profound fiscal shocks: financial crisis, Eurozone crisis, Brexit (which affected the EU too), Covid, Ukraine. Few countries would easily navigate that poly-whammy.
    If you frame it that way, then the central question of Western politics could be whether mass immigration is solving a demographic problem or creating one.
    Or it could be just one of a large number of important questions, which happens to have particular prominence among voters due to its visibility.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    edited December 14

    @Casino_Royale question in good faith, do you think those rioters and those who egged it on weren’t at least partially motivated by racism?

    I'm not debating the riots or the rioters.

    I'm challenging the tired trope of fingerpointing racist and fascist at right-wing politicians.
    But do you agree that the rioters were racist and so therefore were the riots? I’m not trying to trip you up, I just think it’s hard to legitimately argue they weren’t.

    I’m not saying right wing politicians are racist or fascist but I think it’s hard to state in this case that what say Isobel Oakeshott said wasn’t racist?
    Some of the rioters were racist and some were not but all of them were people who wanted to riot.

    They were the sort of people who a few decades ago would be doing their fighting at demonstrations, on picket lines, at football matches and in town centres on Saturday nights.
    Yep. Yobs gonna yob.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,932
    edited December 14

    Very, very tired tropes on here today about right-wingers being fascists and racists.

    We've heard that nonsense over 20 years.

    Wasn't true then and isn't true now.

    I haven't even referred to Farage as Nigel Fuhrer yet.

    These Reformers are political opponent of yours. Come in, enjoy the show!
    Yes, but you fuel it with silly comments like that - not inhibit it.

    Nigel Farage isn't a fascist or a racist. He can be loudmouth pub bore, boorish and chauvinistic, but that's not the same thing.
    I haven't reviewed the discussion as I have just got in so my post could be a hostage to fortune, but I agree with @Casino_Royale. As Casino said, Farage isn't a fascist or a racist and he can be loudmouth pub bore, boorish and chauvinistic, but that's not the same thing. I would also add he is rather good at what he does. Very good indeed. He has had more impact on the UK than most of our recent PMs and I say that even though I disagree with most of what he stands for.

    Re the overnight spat between him and Kemi there is only one winner out of this and that is Reform/Farage and only one loser, Kemi/Tories. I guess there might also be a knock on benefit to the other parties as well at the expense of Kemi/Tories.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
    The tricky challenge is how to manage passing other cars on single track country lanes. Self driving cars would struggle at the moment working out whether to reverse down the hill into a hedge to let another vehicle pass.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,932
    TimS said:

    Also noteworthy that Barnier lasted precisely 2 Trusses. 90 days. The shortest prime ministerial term in French history.

    I love the fact that we have a time measurement now. I'm struggling to think of another one. For other measurements we have always had the bus, the swimming pool, the shed, the tennis court, the football pitch, wales, etc, but have always missed a decent time measurement.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    Very, very tired tropes on here today about right-wingers being fascists and racists.

    We've heard that nonsense over 20 years.

    Wasn't true then and isn't true now.

    I haven't even referred to Farage as Nigel Fuhrer yet.

    These Reformers are political opponent of yours. Come in, enjoy the show!
    Yes, but you fuel it with silly comments like that - not inhibit it.

    Nigel Farage isn't a fascist or a racist. He can be loudmouth pub bore, boorish and chauvinistic, but that's not the same thing.
    Alumni of Dulwich College have suggested an alternative narrative to yours. Of course you might be right and they might be wrong.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    Having a stand-off with tractor in front and a couple of vehicles behind on a narrow Devon lane will be about the last thing they ever master.

    If they ever do.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    Personally, I'm waiting for YouGov to do a VI poll rather than polling about this bullshit... 🤷‍♂️
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
    Can they be programmed not to park in disabled bays unless they have a permit?
  • Can I just say, I don't give the remotest fuck about politicians' views on sandwiches.

    Neither do I. I just question why Badenoch has chosen to talk about this.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    edited December 14

    Can I just say, I don't give the remotest fuck about politicians' views on sandwiches.

    Is that because "sandwiches/ lunch is for wimps"?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    Leon said:

    Who is this 1% that ‘hates’ sandwiches?!

    I don't "hate" sandwiches but as I get older and the inch war get's harder every year, I have come to realize that bread is absolutely terrible for weight gain and should be limited as much as possible.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
    The tricky challenge is how to manage passing other cars on single track country lanes. Self driving cars would struggle at the moment working out whether to reverse down the hill into a hedge to let another vehicle pass.
    There’s a trillion different circumstances where you can say “oh they’ll never do that”. But the thing is: that’s what they said about urban driving in the USA. What if a dog runs into the road, or two self drives collide, or a pushchair falls off a lorry onto a bicycle on a blind corner… yet they’ve overcome all that

    They will overcome every tricky situation everywhere, in the end. Because the technology is only getting better. The end of the car is now

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-end-of-the-car-is-now/
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376

    Can I just say, I don't give the remotest fuck about politicians' views on sandwiches.

    Neither do I. I just question why Badenoch has chosen to talk about this.
    Because she's young and inexperienced. She thought she'd be making a good joke but it backfired... She'll learn (hopefully)
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    GIN1138 said:

    Leon said:

    Who is this 1% that ‘hates’ sandwiches?!

    I don't "hate" sandwiches but as I get older and the inch war get's harder every year, I have come to realize that bread is absolutely terrible for weight gain and should be limited as much as possible.
    I’m right now tucking into a nice homemade bacon and avo sandwich. Kemi is wrong.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited December 14
    Ratters said:

    Attacking sandwiches is a weird thing for a UK politician to do.

    It's like attacking fish and chips. Ot tea. It's fine if you don't like them, but it probably an opinion that's best kept to yourself if you are trying to be popular.

    Yes. However, quiche, quinoa and muesli would have been fair game... 😂
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
    Can they be programmed not to park in disabled bays unless they have a permit?
    Tut tut

    But almost certainly yes
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,053

    As long as self-driving requires a certified driver to be present and ready to intercede at a moment's notice it's hugely flawed.

    Humans can concentrate at a low level for a long time. See playing video games, or just driving. But doing nothing yet being ready to act at a moment's notice on pain of serious injury/death, and holding that for hours on end, is not something we're psychologically capable of handling.

    One of the reasons that train drivers and pilots deserve every penny they earn.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    TimS said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Leon said:

    Who is this 1% that ‘hates’ sandwiches?!

    I don't "hate" sandwiches but as I get older and the inch war get's harder every year, I have come to realize that bread is absolutely terrible for weight gain and should be limited as much as possible.
    I’m right now tucking into a nice homemade bacon and avo sandwich. Kemi is wrong.
    I am partial to a bacon butty (and hopefully don't embarrass myself like Red Ed when eating it)

    Enjoy!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    Roger said:

    Very, very tired tropes on here today about right-wingers being fascists and racists.

    We've heard that nonsense over 20 years.

    Wasn't true then and isn't true now.

    I haven't even referred to Farage as Nigel Fuhrer yet.

    These Reformers are political opponent of yours. Come in, enjoy the show!
    Yes, but you fuel it with silly comments like that - not inhibit it.

    Nigel Farage isn't a fascist or a racist. He can be loudmouth pub bore, boorish and chauvinistic, but that's not the same thing.
    If that is the case he should dissociate himself from Isabel Oatshott and her interviewer on TalkTV. A blind man on a galloping camel can see they are both racist and it is they who made the connection to being 'Right-Wing'
    She's married to Tice. They're the power couple of the populist right.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,471
    Off topic, but I was struck by this from the Mail Online:
    Locals in Britain's prettiest town of Woodbridge, Suffolk, slammed a newbuild estate next to them as 'madness' and said the works would 'stress out' their cats.
    Labour's housebuilding plans are doomed, aren't they? We can't have stressed-out cats.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    As long as self-driving requires a certified driver to be present and ready to intercede at a moment's notice it's hugely flawed.

    Humans can concentrate at a low level for a long time. See playing video games, or just driving. But doing nothing yet being ready to act at a moment's notice on pain of serious injury/death, and holding that for hours on end, is not something we're psychologically capable of handling.

    One of the reasons that train drivers and pilots deserve every penny they earn.
    Does @Morris_Dancer believe waymo self drives have a certified driver “present and ready to intercede at any moment”?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    Can I just say, I don't give the remotest fuck about politicians' views on sandwiches.

    Neither do I. I just question why Badenoch has chosen to talk about this.
    It has got her noticed. She was largely invisible before. So it may be a work of genius. Only time will tell.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    edited December 14
    GIN1138 said:

    TimS said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Leon said:

    Who is this 1% that ‘hates’ sandwiches?!

    I don't "hate" sandwiches but as I get older and the inch war get's harder every year, I have come to realize that bread is absolutely terrible for weight gain and should be limited as much as possible.
    I’m right now tucking into a nice homemade bacon and avo sandwich. Kemi is wrong.
    I am partial to a bacon butty (and hopefully don't embarrass myself like Red Ed when eating it)

    Enjoy!
    Autocorrect weirdly kept wanting to change the spelling of avo, which would have made me look like a cannibalistic Aussie racist.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    Off topic, but I was struck by this from the Mail Online:
    Locals in Britain's prettiest town of Woodbridge, Suffolk, slammed a newbuild estate next to them as 'madness' and said the works would 'stress out' their cats.
    Labour's housebuilding plans are doomed, aren't they? We can't have stressed-out cats.

    Do cats vote - as they don't pick a better excuse..
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited December 14
    TimS said:

    GIN1138 said:

    TimS said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Leon said:

    Who is this 1% that ‘hates’ sandwiches?!

    I don't "hate" sandwiches but as I get older and the inch war get's harder every year, I have come to realize that bread is absolutely terrible for weight gain and should be limited as much as possible.
    I’m right now tucking into a nice homemade bacon and avo sandwich. Kemi is wrong.
    I am partial to a bacon butty (and hopefully don't embarrass myself like Red Ed when eating it)

    Enjoy!
    Autocorrect weirdly kept wanting to change the spelling of avo, which would have made me look like a cannibalistic Aussie racist.
    LOL! I knew what you meant :D

    Unfortunately I can't have avocados as they trigger migraines for me.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    A counter to my “surprise on the upside” optimism on Syria of last night. Outsiders are going to make it bloody difficult for that to happen:

    https://x.com/gerashchenko_en/status/1867922591031468120?s=46

    Erdogan in the North, Netanyahu in the South West, Iran and Russia anywhere they can regain a foothold.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
    The tricky challenge is how to manage passing other cars on single track country lanes. Self driving cars would struggle at the moment working out whether to reverse down the hill into a hedge to let another vehicle pass.
    In theory that's the kind of optimisation problem they ought to be quite good at.
    Google maps route algo already does something a bit like this.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
    The tricky challenge is how to manage passing other cars on single track country lanes. Self driving cars would struggle at the moment working out whether to reverse down the hill into a hedge to let another vehicle pass.
    Everything's difficult until it's done.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    edited December 14
    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
    The tricky challenge is how to manage passing other cars on single track country lanes. Self driving cars would struggle at the moment working out whether to reverse down the hill into a hedge to let another vehicle pass.
    In theory that's the kind of optimisation problem they ought to be quite good at.
    Google maps route algo already does something a bit like this.
    The trouble is it involves doing things that can theoretically cause damage. Reversing into a hedge sends the parking sensors crazy. Going part way down into a ditch would also presumably perturb the algo.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    I'm on team Kemi for this one. Not the dislike of sanwiches but for airing an opinion that might not be popular. I'm tired of politicians who try and work out what they should think on points of irrelevance (getting their advisers to spend hours working on a desert island discs playlist) and think someone just saying what they think is a breath of fresh air. Is that impossible with the modern media and are we guilty of indulging them?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,932
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
    Can they be programmed not to park in disabled bays unless they have a permit?
    Brilliant, that deserves lots of likes and a lesson to us all that when you dig a hole on PB, no matter who you are, you will be reminded of it for eternity. It is a good job most of us have a sense of humour and can take the piss being taken out of us.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    Having a stand-off with tractor in front and a couple of vehicles behind on a narrow Devon lane will be about the last thing they ever master.

    If they ever do.
    I've come across more than one human driver who has struggled with less taxing scenarios on country lanes. And once the computer has fixed it, they will stay fixed, whereas there's always a new twerp to come across who hasn't used reverse gear since their driving test.

    Bearing in mind that there's not much difference to a computer between forwards and reverse, they'll probably end up finding it easier than humans before too long. Give it a few years and people will be chuckling to each other, "Remember before self-driving cars? Imagine Dave from accounts trying to do this?!?"
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    edited December 14
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
    The tricky challenge is how to manage passing other cars on single track country lanes. Self driving cars would struggle at the moment working out whether to reverse down the hill into a hedge to let another vehicle pass.
    In theory that's the kind of optimisation problem they ought to be quite good at.
    Google maps route algo already does something a bit like this.
    The trouble is it involves doing things that can theoretically cause damage. Reversing into a hedge sends the parking sensors crazy. Going part way down into a ditch would also presumably perturb the algo.
    A robocar is going to be a lot less bothered about reversing 250 yards to the nearest driveway or road junction though, because it doesn't find reversing nearly as difficult as a human does and doesn't get bored or annoyed.

    We can expect there to be different optimal solutions for a self-driving car than the ones that people use. They don't have to reproduce our solutions.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 14

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    Having a stand-off with tractor in front and a couple of vehicles behind on a narrow Devon lane will be about the last thing they ever master.

    If they ever do.
    I've come across more than one human driver who has struggled with less taxing scenarios on country lanes. And once the computer has fixed it, they will stay fixed, whereas there's always a new twerp to come across who hasn't used reverse gear since their driving test.

    Bearing in mind that there's not much difference to a computer between forwards and reverse, they'll probably end up finding it easier than humans before too long. Give it a few years and people will be chuckling to each other, "Remember before self-driving cars? Imagine Dave from accounts trying to do this?!?"
    If you look at TwiX, it’s full of people saying “OMG Waymos are brilliant, why did I never realise before”

    Just two examples:

    “I’m in a self-driving Waymo and it feels like the future. Haven’t felt this way in a long time.”

    https://x.com/dcurtis/status/1867738391653360084?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “I have taken several @Waymo ‘s this week in SF and have to admit, I prefer having no driver! 🤷🏻‍♂️”

    https://x.com/bradleydukebtc/status/1867793386117509175?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “Waymo is a 10x better experience than uber”

    https://x.com/benlkatz/status/1865823088648294807?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    You can’t pay for that kind of feedback. People vastly prefer self driving cars. @Nigelb was right to note the inflection point

    From here they will take over the world; I imagine the EU will ban them, and Britain will be caught in the regulatory net
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    Having a stand-off with tractor in front and a couple of vehicles behind on a narrow Devon lane will be about the last thing they ever master.

    If they ever do.
    I've come across more than one human driver who has struggled with less taxing scenarios on country lanes. And once the computer has fixed it, they will stay fixed, whereas there's always a new twerp to come across who hasn't used reverse gear since their driving test.

    Bearing in mind that there's not much difference to a computer between forwards and reverse, they'll probably end up finding it easier than humans before too long. Give it a few years and people will be chuckling to each other, "Remember before self-driving cars? Imagine Dave from accounts trying to do this?!?"
    If you look at TwiX, it’s full of people saying “OMG Waymos are brilliant, why did I never realise before”

    Just two examples:

    “I’m in a self-driving Waymo and it feels like the future. Haven’t felt this way in a long time.”

    https://x.com/dcurtis/status/1867738391653360084?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “I have taken several @Waymo ‘s this week in SF and have to admit, I prefer having no driver! 🤷🏻‍♂️”

    https://x.com/bradleydukebtc/status/1867793386117509175?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “Waymo is a 10x better experience than uber”

    https://x.com/benlkatz/status/1865823088648294807?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    You can’t pay for that kind of feedback. People vastly prefer self driving cars. @Nigelb was right to note the inflection point

    From here they will take over the world; I imagine the EU will ban them, and Britain will be caught in the regulatory net
    People will use them on holiday and they will want to use them back home.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376

    I'm on team Kemi for this one. Not the dislike of sanwiches but for airing an opinion that might not be popular. I'm tired of politicians who try and work out what they should think on points of irrelevance (getting their advisers to spend hours working on a desert island discs playlist) and think someone just saying what they think is a breath of fresh air. Is that impossible with the modern media and are we guilty of indulging them?

    I think you're right but she probably needs to establish herself and get some credibility in the bank before she can pull it off....
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,708

    I'm on team Kemi for this one. Not the dislike of sanwiches but for airing an opinion that might not be popular. I'm tired of politicians who try and work out what they should think on points of irrelevance (getting their advisers to spend hours working on a desert island discs playlist) and think someone just saying what they think is a breath of fresh air. Is that impossible with the modern media and are we guilty of indulging them?

    The worry is that the only thing she's ever said that got any king of resonance at all is about sandwiches. And the resonance wasn't in her favour. It's all looking a bit IDS a present.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376

    I'm on team Kemi for this one. Not the dislike of sanwiches but for airing an opinion that might not be popular. I'm tired of politicians who try and work out what they should think on points of irrelevance (getting their advisers to spend hours working on a desert island discs playlist) and think someone just saying what they think is a breath of fresh air. Is that impossible with the modern media and are we guilty of indulging them?

    The worry is that the only thing she's ever said that got any king of resonance at all is about sandwiches. And the resonance wasn't in her favour. It's all looking a bit IDS a present.
    Don't forget her maternity pay comments, too...
  • Self driving cars will not work in rural areas unless we have a nationwide programme of re-painting the lines.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
    The tricky challenge is how to manage passing other cars on single track country lanes. Self driving cars would struggle at the moment working out whether to reverse down the hill into a hedge to let another vehicle pass.
    In theory that's the kind of optimisation problem they ought to be quite good at.
    Google maps route algo already does something a bit like this.
    The trouble is it involves doing things that can theoretically cause damage. Reversing into a hedge sends the parking sensors crazy. Going part way down into a ditch would also presumably perturb the algo.
    A robocar is going to be a lot less bothered about reversing 250 yards to the nearest driveway or road junction though, because it doesn't find reversing nearly as difficult as a human does and doesn't get bored or annoyed.

    We can expect there to be different optimal solutions for a self-driving car than the ones that people use. They don't have to reproduce our solutions.
    Exactly right. Many people have a weird inability to extrapolate - perhaps it’s a lack of imagination? I dunno

    Also in future vehicles will be designed as self driving from the start. No need for a driver’s seat or steering wheel - so they can be a lot smaller/narrower and therefore actually BETTER at negotiating narrow roads

    You’ll have a choice. In some areas with narrow roads (rural Devon, Covent Garden) you will be able to select what kind of self drive car you want. If it’s just you going to the pub you’ll choose the smallest cheapest possible, which will be a kind of motorised podule

    If you’re moving furniture, a self drive van. Etc
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,932
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
    The tricky challenge is how to manage passing other cars on single track country lanes. Self driving cars would struggle at the moment working out whether to reverse down the hill into a hedge to let another vehicle pass.
    In theory that's the kind of optimisation problem they ought to be quite good at.
    Google maps route algo already does something a bit like this.
    The trouble is it involves doing things that can theoretically cause damage. Reversing into a hedge sends the parking sensors crazy. Going part way down into a ditch would also presumably perturb the algo.
    Our car can basically self drive itself, just it is not allowed to. We can do a limited amount without actually being in the car (I have only witnessed the salesman doing it as it scares the willies out of me that I can do a certain amount of driving without being in the vehicle as I only have very limited control). It brakes by itself if I am going to hit something, overrides my positioning on the road if I let it, has intelligent cruise control and knows where it is going.

    The automatic braking has caused me problems now twice. I have needed to back up and because there were cars behind me it won't let me. They would not necessarily have been aware of the need for me to backup (Mexican stand off where the other vehicle has no where to go) and me moving back is my indication to cars behind me that they need to do likewise. There is probably some override, but when you are in that situation it is not like you can get the manual out. @MarqueeMark tractor on a lane is the exact situation, except of course in that situation presumably the cars behind can see the problem, although putting on your reversing lights helps encourage the right action by others.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    More evidence that Trump reads PB

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1867686000711155989

    The Republican Party will use its best efforts to eliminate Daylight Saving Time, which has a small but strong constituency, but shouldn’t! Daylight Saving Time is inconvenient, and very costly to our Nation.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895

    Self driving cars will not work in rural areas unless we have a nationwide programme of re-painting the lines.

    The more pressing problem is actually likely to be mobile connectivity. Loads of roads are always going to be too narrow to have lines painted on them, but having an internet connection is going to be helpful I'd expect.
  • @MattW so what do you think about the changes to planning?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668

    Off topic, but I was struck by this from the Mail Online:
    Locals in Britain's prettiest town of Woodbridge, Suffolk, slammed a newbuild estate next to them as 'madness' and said the works would 'stress out' their cats.
    Labour's housebuilding plans are doomed, aren't they? We can't have stressed-out cats.

    Who wants loud and noisy construction works next to their digs for 5-10 years six days a week?
  • Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
    The tricky challenge is how to manage passing other cars on single track country lanes. Self driving cars would struggle at the moment working out whether to reverse down the hill into a hedge to let another vehicle pass.
    In theory that's the kind of optimisation problem they ought to be quite good at.
    Google maps route algo already does something a bit like this.
    The trouble is it involves doing things that can theoretically cause damage. Reversing into a hedge sends the parking sensors crazy. Going part way down into a ditch would also presumably perturb the algo.
    A robocar is going to be a lot less bothered about reversing 250 yards to the nearest driveway or road junction though, because it doesn't find reversing nearly as difficult as a human does and doesn't get bored or annoyed.

    We can expect there to be different optimal solutions for a self-driving car than the ones that people use. They don't have to reproduce our solutions.
    Exactly right. Many people have a weird inability to extrapolate - perhaps it’s a lack of imagination? I dunno

    Also in future vehicles will be designed as self driving from the start. No need for a driver’s seat or steering wheel - so they can be a lot smaller/narrower and therefore actually BETTER at negotiating narrow roads

    You’ll have a choice. In some areas with narrow roads (rural Devon, Covent Garden) you will be able to select what kind of self drive car you want. If it’s just you going to the pub you’ll choose the smallest cheapest possible, which will be a kind of motorised podule

    If you’re moving furniture, a self drive van. Etc
    I think almost everyone expects that self driving cars will eventually become the norm. Just not on the ludicrously short timescales that you suggest.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Dem Aliens have made the FT


    https://www.ft.com/content/77b0d4b9-da9d-4a7f-ae21-204eb2e7dcde

    “Concerns grow over mysterious drones”

    It is QUITE the story
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668

    I'm on team Kemi for this one. Not the dislike of sanwiches but for airing an opinion that might not be popular. I'm tired of politicians who try and work out what they should think on points of irrelevance (getting their advisers to spend hours working on a desert island discs playlist) and think someone just saying what they think is a breath of fresh air. Is that impossible with the modern media and are we guilty of indulging them?

    Personally, I find sandwiches boring.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
    The tricky challenge is how to manage passing other cars on single track country lanes. Self driving cars would struggle at the moment working out whether to reverse down the hill into a hedge to let another vehicle pass.
    In theory that's the kind of optimisation problem they ought to be quite good at.
    Google maps route algo already does something a bit like this.
    The trouble is it involves doing things that can theoretically cause damage. Reversing into a hedge sends the parking sensors crazy. Going part way down into a ditch would also presumably perturb the algo.
    A robocar is going to be a lot less bothered about reversing 250 yards to the nearest driveway or road junction though, because it doesn't find reversing nearly as difficult as a human does and doesn't get bored or annoyed.

    We can expect there to be different optimal solutions for a self-driving car than the ones that people use. They don't have to reproduce our solutions.
    Exactly right. Many people have a weird inability to extrapolate - perhaps it’s a lack of imagination? I dunno

    Also in future vehicles will be designed as self driving from the start. No need for a driver’s seat or steering wheel - so they can be a lot smaller/narrower and therefore actually BETTER at negotiating narrow roads

    You’ll have a choice. In some areas with narrow roads (rural Devon, Covent Garden) you will be able to select what kind of self drive car you want. If it’s just you going to the pub you’ll choose the smallest cheapest possible, which will be a kind of motorised podule

    If you’re moving furniture, a self drive van. Etc
    I think almost everyone expects that self driving cars will eventually become the norm. Just not on the ludicrously short timescales that you suggest.
    I do get over excited, and you should likely always double my time scales, at least. I’m a bit like Elon Musk
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694
    Just thinking idly. Given my present driving licence predicament, does one need one to operate a self-driving car?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834

    I'm on team Kemi for this one. Not the dislike of sanwiches but for airing an opinion that might not be popular. I'm tired of politicians who try and work out what they should think on points of irrelevance (getting their advisers to spend hours working on a desert island discs playlist) and think someone just saying what they think is a breath of fresh air. Is that impossible with the modern media and are we guilty of indulging them?

    Personally, I find sandwiches boring.
    Yes, but very convenient. Food doesn't have to be interesting and we shouldn't necessarily expect it to be.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    a
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
    Can they be programmed not to park in disabled bays unless they have a permit?
    Tut tut

    But almost certainly yes
    I got a lift in a friends SUV - joint children’s outing. We stopped at supermarket. It recognised and flashed a disabled sign on the reversing screen. It had recognised that the bay next to the one we were backing into was marked for disabled.

    Forget the make…
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668

    I'm on team Kemi for this one. Not the dislike of sanwiches but for airing an opinion that might not be popular. I'm tired of politicians who try and work out what they should think on points of irrelevance (getting their advisers to spend hours working on a desert island discs playlist) and think someone just saying what they think is a breath of fresh air. Is that impossible with the modern media and are we guilty of indulging them?

    Personally, I find sandwiches boring.
    Yes, but very convenient. Food doesn't have to be interesting and we shouldn't necessarily expect it to be.
    Well, that's very much a matter of personal taste.

    For you convenience wins out over being interesting. For me, it doesn't.

    I take active pleasure in what I eat and don't view it as utilitarian fuel.
  • Off topic, but I was struck by this from the Mail Online:
    Locals in Britain's prettiest town of Woodbridge, Suffolk, slammed a newbuild estate next to them as 'madness' and said the works would 'stress out' their cats.
    Labour's housebuilding plans are doomed, aren't they? We can't have stressed-out cats.

    Who wants loud and noisy construction works next to their digs for 5-10 years six days a week?
    People need somewhere to live, Casino.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    In other matters, the shape of Starmer's next surrender is becoming clearer and clearer:

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/brussels-to-demand-uk-surrenders-fishing-rights-and-follows-eu-laws-7ptq59dw8
  • Self driving cars will not work in rural areas unless we have a nationwide programme of re-painting the lines.

    The more pressing problem is actually likely to be mobile connectivity. Loads of roads are always going to be too narrow to have lines painted on them, but having an internet connection is going to be helpful I'd expect.
    Well then we we need more masts, built higher. Let’s hope Labour come forward with some plans.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Just thinking idly. Given my present driving licence predicament, does one need one to operate a self-driving car?

    Nope. That’s one of the many huge benefits of self drive

    Suddenly for old people, disabled, blind, drunk, kids, etc, getting about by car will be feasible again. Because in time self drive cars will be MUCH cheaper than taxis - no driver to pay, for a start

    Also this:

    ‘Car accidents are the eighth highest cause of death for people of all ages & the leading cause among young people aged 5-29 worldwide. At least 1.3 million people die in car accidents every year, with a further 20 to 50 million people sustaining injuries’

    Self drive cars will be safer, by orders of magnitude. Millions of lives will be saved
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    In other matters, the shape of Starmer's next surrender is becoming clearer and clearer:

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/brussels-to-demand-uk-surrenders-fishing-rights-and-follows-eu-laws-7ptq59dw8

    I read that. Surely even Sir Sheer Wanker will not be that feeble, craven and treacherous. Give up all our hard won fishing rights AND once again subject us to EU law and the ECJ, only this time without any say in making those laws

    It’s the worst possible outcome of Brexit and would finish Starmer forever and go a long long way to making Farage PM in 2028. So he’ll probably do it
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    eek said:

    Off topic, but I was struck by this from the Mail Online:
    Locals in Britain's prettiest town of Woodbridge, Suffolk, slammed a newbuild estate next to them as 'madness' and said the works would 'stress out' their cats.
    Labour's housebuilding plans are doomed, aren't they? We can't have stressed-out cats.

    Do cats vote - as they don't pick a better excuse..
    They don't vote in human elections, but give the relevant instructions to their servants. Notice this: cats know exactly how we conduct elections. We have no idea how they conduct theirs.

    The good people/cats of Woodbridge may be regretting putting Labour in by a whisker, but Therese Coffey maybe wasn't local enough for the cats.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970

    In other matters, the shape of Starmer's next surrender is becoming clearer and clearer:

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/brussels-to-demand-uk-surrenders-fishing-rights-and-follows-eu-laws-7ptq59dw8

    Last I heard the fishermen were moaning about their industry being destroyed by the deal with the EU despite them voting Brexit overwhelmingly. So not a lot of sympathy.......

    'How Brexit Betrayed the British Fishing Industry'

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-fisheries-uk-industry-betrayal/
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,932

    a

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
    Can they be programmed not to park in disabled bays unless they have a permit?
    Tut tut

    But almost certainly yes
    I got a lift in a friends SUV - joint children’s outing. We stopped at supermarket. It recognised and flashed a disabled sign on the reversing screen. It had recognised that the bay next to the one we were backing into was marked for disabled.

    Forget the make…
    It is amazing what they can do. Mine will drive itself into and out of parking bays without me being in the car so you don't have the door opening issues. It steers itself. I have no idea how it does it so I have been too scared to try it. I have only watched the salesman do it with the car we bought. It manoeuvred itself beautifully with us all standing 20m away. There must be limits as to what it can do though. I presume I have to line it up in some way as I only have a button for forward or reversing and no steering. It sorts that out itself, but if there are multiple bays or I leave it 90 degrees to the bay presumably it can't do it (or it parks itself miles away in the direction it is pointing). I would play with it, but I don't know where my car may end up and me standing like a fool holding the key fob as it disappears into the distance.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    kjh said:

    a

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
    Can they be programmed not to park in disabled bays unless they have a permit?
    Tut tut

    But almost certainly yes
    I got a lift in a friends SUV - joint children’s outing. We stopped at supermarket. It recognised and flashed a disabled sign on the reversing screen. It had recognised that the bay next to the one we were backing into was marked for disabled.

    Forget the make…
    It is amazing what they can do. Mine will drive itself into and out of parking bays without me being in the car so you don't have the door opening issues. It steers itself. I have no idea how it does it so I have been too scared to try it. I have only watched the salesman do it with the car we bought. It manoeuvred itself beautifully with us all standing 20m away. There must be limits as to what it can do though. I presume I have to line it up in some way as I only have a button for forward or reversing and no steering. It sorts that out itself, but if there are multiple bays or I leave it 90 degrees to the bay presumably it can't do it (or it parks itself miles away in the direction it is pointing). I would play with it, but I don't know where my car may end up and me standing like a fool holding the key fob as it disappears into the distance.
    You might not have door-openings issues, but what about the poor sods parked next to you?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834

    Just thinking idly. Given my present driving licence predicament, does one need one to operate a self-driving car?

    As far as I'm aware, the law hasn't changed so yes, you do need a licence and the driver is still as responsible for what the car does as they would be for one they were driving themselves.

    Happy to be corrected if wrong.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142

    Can I just say, I don't give the remotest fuck about politicians' views on sandwiches.

    Neither do I. I just question why Badenoch has chosen to talk about this.
    It isn't as stupid as it seems. As LOTO you just need to be in the news. Cameron was, to his credit, very good at it. Hug a hoodie, hug a huskie etc....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 14

    Just thinking idly. Given my present driving licence predicament, does one need one to operate a self-driving car?

    As far as I'm aware, the law hasn't changed so yes, you do need a licence and the driver is still as responsible for what the car does as they would be for one they were driving themselves.

    Happy to be corrected if wrong.
    You’re wrong

    In the USA:

    “You do not need a driver’s license to ride in a Waymo self-driving car. Waymo’s autonomous vehicles are designed to operate without human intervention, allowing passengers to travel without possessing a driver’s license.

    Eligibility Requirements:

    • Age: Passengers must be at least 18 years old to ride alone. Minors can accompany an adult but cannot ride unaccompanied. 

    • App Registration: To use Waymo’s services, you need to download the Waymo One app and create an account. The registration process does not require a driver’s license.

    Additional Considerations:

    • Service Animals: Service animals are welcome. However, pets are not allowed to accommodate passengers with allergies. 

    • Child Safety: If you’re traveling with children under 8 years old, you must provide and install an appropriate car or booster seat in the back seat. 

    In summary, Waymo’s autonomous ride-hailing service is accessible to individuals without a driver’s license, provided they meet the age requirement and adhere to the company’s rider policies.”
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,744
    I'm not getting a self-driving car till it spouts a wise-cracking sidekick personality like KITT.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,316
    On topic, I note the 11th Earl currently has a seat in the Lords, so the hereditary peerage is still not short of a picnic.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    “I was skeptical of the drone story. Then I saw them with my own eyes last night. DOZENS of them. And we got it on camera.
    @NewsNation #NJDRONES”

    https://x.com/richmchugh/status/1867746812838523387?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    PBers, decide for yourself
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857

    Just thinking idly. Given my present driving licence predicament, does one need one to operate a self-driving car?

    As far as I'm aware, the law hasn't changed so yes, you do need a licence and the driver is still as responsible for what the car does as they would be for one they were driving themselves.

    Happy to be corrected if wrong.
    A relevant legislative door stop of an act is this, here:
    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2024/10/contents

    Life is too short for me to find out what is in it unless being paid by the minute.
This discussion has been closed.