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The polling you’ve all been waiting for – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    Leon said:

    In other matters, the shape of Starmer's next surrender is becoming clearer and clearer:

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/brussels-to-demand-uk-surrenders-fishing-rights-and-follows-eu-laws-7ptq59dw8

    I read that. Surely even Sir Sheer Wanker will not be that feeble, craven and treacherous. Give up all our hard won fishing rights AND once again subject us to EU law and the ECJ, only this time without any say in making those laws

    It’s the worst possible outcome of Brexit and would finish Starmer forever and go a long long way to making Farage PM in 2028. So he’ll probably do it
    Oh, he will.
  • Tories still struggling that SKS will be PM for years.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    In other matters, the shape of Starmer's next surrender is becoming clearer and clearer:

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/brussels-to-demand-uk-surrenders-fishing-rights-and-follows-eu-laws-7ptq59dw8

    I read that. Surely even Sir Sheer Wanker will not be that feeble, craven and treacherous. Give up all our hard won fishing rights AND once again subject us to EU law and the ECJ, only this time without any say in making those laws

    It’s the worst possible outcome of Brexit and would finish Starmer forever and go a long long way to making Farage PM in 2028. So he’ll probably do it
    Oh, he will.
    Yes, there’s a good chance he will

    And it will be a huge boost for Farage
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    Leon said:

    Just thinking idly. Given my present driving licence predicament, does one need one to operate a self-driving car?

    As far as I'm aware, the law hasn't changed so yes, you do need a licence and the driver is still as responsible for what the car does as they would be for one they were driving themselves.

    Happy to be corrected if wrong.
    You’re wrong

    In the USA:

    “You do not need a driver’s license to ride in a Waymo self-driving car. Waymo’s autonomous vehicles are designed to operate without human intervention, allowing passengers to travel without possessing a driver’s license.

    Eligibility Requirements:

    • Age: Passengers must be at least 18 years old to ride alone. Minors can accompany an adult but cannot ride unaccompanied. 

    • App Registration: To use Waymo’s services, you need to download the Waymo One app and create an account. The registration process does not require a driver’s license.

    Additional Considerations:

    • Service Animals: Service animals are welcome. However, pets are not allowed to accommodate passengers with allergies. 

    • Child Safety: If you’re traveling with children under 8 years old, you must provide and install an appropriate car or booster seat in the back seat. 

    In summary, Waymo’s autonomous ride-hailing service is accessible to individuals without a driver’s license, provided they meet the age requirement and adhere to the company’s rider policies.”
    I was talking about the UK, which is presumably what's relevant to OKC.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    edited December 14
    Leon said:

    “I was skeptical of the drone story. Then I saw them with my own eyes last night. DOZENS of them. And we got it on camera.
    @NewsNation #NJDRONES”

    https://x.com/richmchugh/status/1867746812838523387?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    PBers, decide for yourself

    People flying drones to spot the drones, probably.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    GIN1138 said:

    Can I just say, I don't give the remotest fuck about politicians' views on sandwiches.

    Neither do I. I just question why Badenoch has chosen to talk about this.
    Because she's young and inexperienced. She thought she'd be making a good joke but it backfired... She'll learn (hopefully)
    She’s 44!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Just thinking idly. Given my present driving licence predicament, does one need one to operate a self-driving car?

    As far as I'm aware, the law hasn't changed so yes, you do need a licence and the driver is still as responsible for what the car does as they would be for one they were driving themselves.

    Happy to be corrected if wrong.
    You’re wrong

    In the USA:

    “You do not need a driver’s license to ride in a Waymo self-driving car. Waymo’s autonomous vehicles are designed to operate without human intervention, allowing passengers to travel without possessing a driver’s license.

    Eligibility Requirements:

    • Age: Passengers must be at least 18 years old to ride alone. Minors can accompany an adult but cannot ride unaccompanied. 

    • App Registration: To use Waymo’s services, you need to download the Waymo One app and create an account. The registration process does not require a driver’s license.

    Additional Considerations:

    • Service Animals: Service animals are welcome. However, pets are not allowed to accommodate passengers with allergies. 

    • Child Safety: If you’re traveling with children under 8 years old, you must provide and install an appropriate car or booster seat in the back seat. 

    In summary, Waymo’s autonomous ride-hailing service is accessible to individuals without a driver’s license, provided they meet the age requirement and adhere to the company’s rider policies.”
    I was talking about the UK, which is presumably what's relevant to OKC.
    There aren’t any self drive cars commercially available in the UK, some are being tested right now in London. I think there was a pilot test in Milton Keynes as well

    However they will probably arrive in 2025-6, and the law will be the same as the USA. You won’t need a license to get in one
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,161
    People should stop arguing about sandwiches. We need a piece treaty.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 14

    Leon said:

    “I was skeptical of the drone story. Then I saw them with my own eyes last night. DOZENS of them. And we got it on camera.
    @NewsNation #NJDRONES”

    https://x.com/richmchugh/status/1867746812838523387?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    PBers, decide for yourself

    People flying drones to spot the drones, probably.
    It’s fascinating because there are so many competing theories - from the minimalist “it’s just a flap and hallucinations” to the maximalist “aliens”

    The most plausible explanations surround advanced US tech that they are testing and are nonetheless trying to keep quiet. But that has flaws of its own

    And of course many of them are just planes and normal drones that are misidentified in the confusion and excitement

    Even in the reactions to that fairly level headed news report there are people saying “you’re an idiot it’s just a plane” even tho the journalist is sane and skeptical and insists it’s not a plane

    🤷🏼‍♂️
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,053
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Just thinking idly. Given my present driving licence predicament, does one need one to operate a self-driving car?

    As far as I'm aware, the law hasn't changed so yes, you do need a licence and the driver is still as responsible for what the car does as they would be for one they were driving themselves.

    Happy to be corrected if wrong.
    You’re wrong

    In the USA:

    “You do not need a driver’s license to ride in a Waymo self-driving car. Waymo’s autonomous vehicles are designed to operate without human intervention, allowing passengers to travel without possessing a driver’s license.

    Eligibility Requirements:

    • Age: Passengers must be at least 18 years old to ride alone. Minors can accompany an adult but cannot ride unaccompanied. 

    • App Registration: To use Waymo’s services, you need to download the Waymo One app and create an account. The registration process does not require a driver’s license.

    Additional Considerations:

    • Service Animals: Service animals are welcome. However, pets are not allowed to accommodate passengers with allergies. 

    • Child Safety: If you’re traveling with children under 8 years old, you must provide and install an appropriate car or booster seat in the back seat. 

    In summary, Waymo’s autonomous ride-hailing service is accessible to individuals without a driver’s license, provided they meet the age requirement and adhere to the company’s rider policies.”
    I was talking about the UK, which is presumably what's relevant to OKC.
    There aren’t any self drive cars commercially available in the UK, some are being tested right now in London. I think there was a pilot test in Milton Keynes as well

    However they will probably arrive in 2025-6, and the law will be the same as the USA. You won’t need a license to get in one
    That makes sense. You don’t need a licence to get in a taxi. P.S. Note to Leon. Please note correct spelling of licence.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,053

    People should stop arguing about sandwiches. We need a piece treaty.

    Well bread people haven’t been discussing sandwiches.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,122

    People should stop arguing about sandwiches. We need a piece treaty.

    We should just roll with it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Just thinking idly. Given my present driving licence predicament, does one need one to operate a self-driving car?

    As far as I'm aware, the law hasn't changed so yes, you do need a licence and the driver is still as responsible for what the car does as they would be for one they were driving themselves.

    Happy to be corrected if wrong.
    You’re wrong

    In the USA:

    “You do not need a driver’s license to ride in a Waymo self-driving car. Waymo’s autonomous vehicles are designed to operate without human intervention, allowing passengers to travel without possessing a driver’s license.

    Eligibility Requirements:

    • Age: Passengers must be at least 18 years old to ride alone. Minors can accompany an adult but cannot ride unaccompanied. 

    • App Registration: To use Waymo’s services, you need to download the Waymo One app and create an account. The registration process does not require a driver’s license.

    Additional Considerations:

    • Service Animals: Service animals are welcome. However, pets are not allowed to accommodate passengers with allergies. 

    • Child Safety: If you’re traveling with children under 8 years old, you must provide and install an appropriate car or booster seat in the back seat. 

    In summary, Waymo’s autonomous ride-hailing service is accessible to individuals without a driver’s license, provided they meet the age requirement and adhere to the company’s rider policies.”
    I was talking about the UK, which is presumably what's relevant to OKC.
    There aren’t any self drive cars commercially available in the UK, some are being tested right now in London. I think there was a pilot test in Milton Keynes as well

    However they will probably arrive in 2025-6, and the law will be the same as the USA. You won’t need a license to get in one
    That makes sense. You don’t need a licence to get in a taxi. P.S. Note to Leon. Please note correct spelling of licence.
    I'm too old to learn how to spell, now
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,053
    Cicero said:

    People should stop arguing about sandwiches. We need a piece treaty.

    We should just roll with it.
    I don’t have a beef with that.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,236

    Can I just say, I don't give the remotest fuck about politicians' views on sandwiches.

    Neither do I. I just question why Badenoch has chosen to talk about this.
    A lot of foreigners don't get the British preference for sandwiches at lunchtime. They want a proper lunch. Badenoch has inadvertently outed herself as a foreigner in this respect.

    Which is interesting given her party's ideology.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,161
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “I was skeptical of the drone story. Then I saw them with my own eyes last night. DOZENS of them. And we got it on camera.
    @NewsNation #NJDRONES”

    https://x.com/richmchugh/status/1867746812838523387?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    PBers, decide for yourself

    People flying drones to spot the drones, probably.
    It’s fascinating because there are so many competing theories - from the minimalist “it’s just a flap and hallucinations” to the maximalist “aliens”

    The most plausible explanations surround advanced US tech that they are testing and are nonetheless trying to keep quiet. But that has flaws of its own

    And of course many of them are just planes and normal drones that are misidentified in the confusion and excitement

    Even in the reactions to that fairly level headed news report there are people saying “you’re an idiot it’s just a plane” even tho the journalist is sane and skeptical and insists it’s not a plane

    🤷🏼‍♂️
    Yep. The object that is the shape of a plane, with lights in the same places as on a plane, on the flight path into Newark, definitely isn't a plane.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330

    Cicero said:

    People should stop arguing about sandwiches. We need a piece treaty.

    We should just roll with it.
    I don’t have a beef with that.
    Ms Badenoch is, nevertheless, getting into a pickle.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Just thinking idly. Given my present driving licence predicament, does one need one to operate a self-driving car?

    As far as I'm aware, the law hasn't changed so yes, you do need a licence and the driver is still as responsible for what the car does as they would be for one they were driving themselves.

    Happy to be corrected if wrong.
    You’re wrong

    In the USA:

    “You do not need a driver’s license to ride in a Waymo self-driving car. Waymo’s autonomous vehicles are designed to operate without human intervention, allowing passengers to travel without possessing a driver’s license.

    Eligibility Requirements:

    • Age: Passengers must be at least 18 years old to ride alone. Minors can accompany an adult but cannot ride unaccompanied. 

    • App Registration: To use Waymo’s services, you need to download the Waymo One app and create an account. The registration process does not require a driver’s license.

    Additional Considerations:

    • Service Animals: Service animals are welcome. However, pets are not allowed to accommodate passengers with allergies. 

    • Child Safety: If you’re traveling with children under 8 years old, you must provide and install an appropriate car or booster seat in the back seat. 

    In summary, Waymo’s autonomous ride-hailing service is accessible to individuals without a driver’s license, provided they meet the age requirement and adhere to the company’s rider policies.”
    I was talking about the UK, which is presumably what's relevant to OKC.
    There aren’t any self drive cars commercially available in the UK, some are being tested right now in London. I think there was a pilot test in Milton Keynes as well

    However they will probably arrive in 2025-6, and the law will be the same as the USA. You won’t need a license to get in one
    That makes sense. You don’t need a licence to get in a taxi. P.S. Note to Leon. Please note correct spelling of licence.
    I'm too old to learn how to spell, now
    Or punctuate.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    edited December 14
    O/T but on a Saturday afternoon, and specially for @TSE some of us might like to know that this book about the proverbial w-, sorry, bunch of bankers is now out in paperback:

    Virtuous Bankers: A Day in the Life of the Eighteenth-Century Bank of England

    Anne L. Murphy

    https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691194745/virtuous-bankers?srsltid=AfmBOorBYnPZBIKd_sI7MXQVjX-DGCDiid0m_NpvBUXqu-wuLozViX10

    About halfway through, and finding it fascinating. It's not literally a day in the life of ... but that is a good way of emphasising the regular cycle of work and its importance to the functioning of bank and state, though the author does stop to explain as needed, at least so far.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “I was skeptical of the drone story. Then I saw them with my own eyes last night. DOZENS of them. And we got it on camera.
    @NewsNation #NJDRONES”

    https://x.com/richmchugh/status/1867746812838523387?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    PBers, decide for yourself

    People flying drones to spot the drones, probably.
    It’s fascinating because there are so many competing theories - from the minimalist “it’s just a flap and hallucinations” to the maximalist “aliens”

    The most plausible explanations surround advanced US tech that they are testing and are nonetheless trying to keep quiet. But that has flaws of its own

    And of course many of them are just planes and normal drones that are misidentified in the confusion and excitement

    Even in the reactions to that fairly level headed news report there are people saying “you’re an idiot it’s just a plane” even tho the journalist is sane and skeptical and insists it’s not a plane

    🤷🏼‍♂️
    Yep. The object that is the shape of a plane, with lights in the same places as on a plane, on the flight path into Newark, definitely isn't a plane.
    I hear you. To me, it looks really quite like a plane, in an area full of planes

    So either the journalist is

    1. A liar
    2. An idiot
    3. He's right, it isn't a plane

    If I was a prospering US news journalist I wouldn't risk my entire career - or at least reputation - by misidentifying an obvious plane. Nor does he look obviously stupid? But who knows
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “I was skeptical of the drone story. Then I saw them with my own eyes last night. DOZENS of them. And we got it on camera.
    @NewsNation #NJDRONES”

    https://x.com/richmchugh/status/1867746812838523387?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    PBers, decide for yourself

    People flying drones to spot the drones, probably.
    It’s fascinating because there are so many competing theories - from the minimalist “it’s just a flap and hallucinations” to the maximalist “aliens”

    The most plausible explanations surround advanced US tech that they are testing and are nonetheless trying to keep quiet. But that has flaws of its own

    And of course many of them are just planes and normal drones that are misidentified in the confusion and excitement

    Even in the reactions to that fairly level headed news report there are people saying “you’re an idiot it’s just a plane” even tho the journalist is sane and skeptical and insists it’s not a plane

    🤷🏼‍♂️
    Yep. The object that is the shape of a plane, with lights in the same places as on a plane, on the flight path into Newark, definitely isn't a plane.
    And a bloke talking into a microphone like a journo, on a programme that looks like a TV news programme, definitely isn't interested in audience share or clickbait stats.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “I was skeptical of the drone story. Then I saw them with my own eyes last night. DOZENS of them. And we got it on camera.
    @NewsNation #NJDRONES”

    https://x.com/richmchugh/status/1867746812838523387?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    PBers, decide for yourself

    People flying drones to spot the drones, probably.
    It’s fascinating because there are so many competing theories - from the minimalist “it’s just a flap and hallucinations” to the maximalist “aliens”

    The most plausible explanations surround advanced US tech that they are testing and are nonetheless trying to keep quiet. But that has flaws of its own

    And of course many of them are just planes and normal drones that are misidentified in the confusion and excitement

    Even in the reactions to that fairly level headed news report there are people saying “you’re an idiot it’s just a plane” even tho the journalist is sane and skeptical and insists it’s not a plane

    🤷🏼‍♂️
    Yep. The object that is the shape of a plane, with lights in the same places as on a plane, on the flight path into Newark, definitely isn't a plane.
    I hear you. To me, it looks really quite like a plane, in an area full of planes

    So either the journalist is

    1. A liar
    2. An idiot
    3. He's right, it isn't a plane

    If I was a prospering US news journalist I wouldn't risk my entire career - or at least reputation - by misidentifying an obvious plane. Nor does he look obviously stupid? But who knows
    See below for rational reason why journo would etc.
  • More evidence that Trump reads PB

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1867686000711155989

    The Republican Party will use its best efforts to eliminate Daylight Saving Time, which has a small but strong constituency, but shouldn’t! Daylight Saving Time is inconvenient, and very costly to our Nation.

    Daylight savings time is a complete shambles in America where each state does its own thing, leading to anomalies, and the actual transitions forward and back take place according to local time. In Europe, we change at 1am GMT so the whole of Europe changes together. The United States sees a slowly rolling change across the country making it a royal PITA trying to schedule anything those two days.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “I was skeptical of the drone story. Then I saw them with my own eyes last night. DOZENS of them. And we got it on camera.
    @NewsNation #NJDRONES”

    https://x.com/richmchugh/status/1867746812838523387?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    PBers, decide for yourself

    People flying drones to spot the drones, probably.
    It’s fascinating because there are so many competing theories - from the minimalist “it’s just a flap and hallucinations” to the maximalist “aliens”

    The most plausible explanations surround advanced US tech that they are testing and are nonetheless trying to keep quiet. But that has flaws of its own

    And of course many of them are just planes and normal drones that are misidentified in the confusion and excitement

    Even in the reactions to that fairly level headed news report there are people saying “you’re an idiot it’s just a plane” even tho the journalist is sane and skeptical and insists it’s not a plane

    🤷🏼‍♂️
    Yep. The object that is the shape of a plane, with lights in the same places as on a plane, on the flight path into Newark, definitely isn't a plane.
    And a bloke talking into a microphone like a journo, on a programme that looks like a TV news programme, definitely isn't interested in audience share or clickbait stats.
    Yes, it's possible. Foolish, if so
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213

    More evidence that Trump reads PB

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1867686000711155989

    The Republican Party will use its best efforts to eliminate Daylight Saving Time, which has a small but strong constituency, but shouldn’t! Daylight Saving Time is inconvenient, and very costly to our Nation.

    Daylight savings time is a complete shambles in America where each state does its own thing, leading to anomalies, and the actual transitions forward and back take place according to local time. In Europe, we change at 1am GMT so the whole of Europe changes together. The United States sees a slowly rolling change across the country making it a royal PITA trying to schedule anything those two days.
    PITA always requires a double take when I read it. First thought is of the Greek flatbread.

    Same as its synonym Ballache, which I read as balash.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    edited December 14

    Cicero said:

    People should stop arguing about sandwiches. We need a piece treaty.

    We should just roll with it.
    I don’t have a beef with that.
    It’s a PITA, all this bap and forth over a mere baguettelle. At least she’s not a sub. (That was Truss, as I recall).

    Let’s call it a wrap.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,033
    edited December 14
    MattW said:

    FPT: I won't FPT much of the previous planning convo, but this is worth a look for anyone with Saturday intellectual energy. Planning Barristers redrawing their mental maps. :wink:

    This is probably for @Andy_Cooke @BatteryCorrectHorse and maybe @eek and @stodge, and others involved in Planning Committees. It is the first detailed commentary on parts of the new NPPF I have seen, and has some good points, and draws out details we have not mentioned.

    The Christmas Film Die Hard gets a mention, as in “Ho! Ho! Ho! Now I have a machine gun!” *

    If you are not at least a little familiar with the Local Plan process, you may come away with a modest "assaulted by planning documents" headache.

    The New NPPF: A Christmas Cracker?

    The updated National Planning Policy Framework (NPPF), released today (12 December 2024), promises significant changes to housing delivery, Green Belt planning, and local plan collaboration. In this analysis, members of the Cornerstone Planning and Environment Team highlight the key takeaways.

    https://cornerstonebarristers.com/the-new-nppf-a-christmas-cracker/

    * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlQoXP2XH68

    An interesting and useful read. In essence: it's very early days.
    That some LAs don't bother to do the work on Local Plans is something I didn't know - we've never been in that position (amusingly, we're mentioned by name in that article as having a new Local Plan that's just been submitted).

    Other than getting my personal ideas through as per here: https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/12/03/the-planning-problem/ , I'd have liked to see (if it had to be tweakage rather than proper reform), things such as:
    • Full Green Belt review, aimed at the minimum necessary to achieve specific aims, and these aims being compared with affordability (and an affordability threshold for settlements surrounded by Green Belts that would automatically trigger a further independent review).

    • Listed buildings review (my stance - which gets me shot at by both sides - is that Grade II should be abolished. Listed building status to be reserved to Grade I, Grade II*, and monuments).

    • Rules for phone masts, signage, and wind turbines to be loosened significantly. That we need an actual application for planning permission to change a restaurant sign from "Harvester" to "Miller and Carter" when the place change ownership is, to me, absurd.

    • Most (if not all) of Section 7 (limiting retails sites to town centres) to be erased. You can't preserve the town centre by planning rules; all you can do is force a lingering decay. Provide revitalisation/regeneration/re-use opportunities by other means. If I never hear the words "sequential test" again, I'd be happier. Actually, if you DO insist on supporting town centre shopping with planning rules, use LDOs to make it much easier to get retail sites built and/or changed in specific areas.

    • Developments over a certain size MUST have on-site parking for all vehicles (including workers' own cars) to ensure they don't jam up surrounding roads (may seem daft, but this single action could defuse a lot of aggravation around here).
    Beyond these specifics, a general improvement on infrastructure-led development and actionable powers of enforcement (you should never need several years of wrangling to require a developer to remove tonnes upon tonnes of rubble they buried below where the sports fields are supposed to go, raising the level by six feet, making it unusable for sports, and permitting passers-by to look into bedroom windows abutting the green areas).
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,122
    edited December 14
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In other matters, the shape of Starmer's next surrender is becoming clearer and clearer:

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/brussels-to-demand-uk-surrenders-fishing-rights-and-follows-eu-laws-7ptq59dw8

    I read that. Surely even Sir Sheer Wanker will not be that feeble, craven and treacherous. Give up all our hard won fishing rights AND once again subject us to EU law and the ECJ, only this time without any say in making those laws

    It’s the worst possible outcome of Brexit and would finish Starmer forever and go a long long way to making Farage PM in 2028. So he’ll probably do it
    Oh, he will.
    Yes, there’s a good chance he will

    And it will be a huge boost for Farage
    The fundamental problem for you far right guys is that Farage is actively disliked by enough people that he cannot attract a broad enough coalition of voters, even if he didn´t keep dropping the ball and wasn´t a charlatan.

    The increasingly weak Tories have screwed up yet another leadership election, and will probably look ever weaker versus Reform for a while, but that is not enough either, because under Farage the total right wing vote will not match the total centre and left vote, since too many previous Tories are already heading Lib Dem and will stay there. Reform could win all the previous red wall, but unless the kind of Tories that volunteer for the CAB or Residents Associations end their boycott, then the right, as in the early 80s for the left, will not be able to get anywhere close to a majority.

    Then of course Ms Leon (and the Daily Mail) assumes that because Trump has won and that Farage is Trumps little helper, that Farage is gaining from this. Yes, he is... for now. However, to an objective observer, Trump´s slate of candidates for his administration is not exactly the brightest and the best of a generation. In fact they are anti-science, spooky and even in America, are just plan weird. Trump could get lucky, but more likely is that he smashes things and fails.

    What then for the UK?

    The former Conservative vote Balkanised between hard-right Reform, cosplay-right rump Tories, and centrists going Lib Dem will keep the right out for many Parliaments, and if Starmer had the balls to go for fair votes, then the voters formerly known as Tory can remain split and see if the leaders of the three groups will work it out. Spoiler alert... they won´t because the Lib Dems loathe Farage and the feeling is sort of mutual. So the Tories might form something with Reform.. not enough.

    So sure Labour is weak and the Lib Dems... blah blah blah.

    Sure, but the beam is in your eye and not in Starmer´s. Even though the media can drop buckets of shit on Labour every day (which they barely waited a week after the election to start doing), the truth is that Brexit is a total fuck up and the Tories are toxic waste because of it. Neither is there any prospective Tory leader that can pull it back. So Farage gets votes and seats, right up until some massive US balls up covers Farage with his own fecal overcoat.

    So enjoy yourselves, but it ain´t going to last.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173

    @Casino_Royale question in good faith, do you think those rioters and those who egged it on weren’t at least partially motivated by racism?

    I'm not debating the riots or the rioters.

    I'm challenging the tired trope of fingerpointing racist and fascist at right-wing politicians.
    But do you agree that the rioters were racist and so therefore were the riots? I’m not trying to trip you up, I just think it’s hard to legitimately argue they weren’t.

    I’m not saying right wing politicians are racist or fascist but I think it’s hard to state in this case that what say Isobel Oakeshott said wasn’t racist?
    As ever the problem with this you think that once the label is applied then the debate must end. No doubt some rioters were racists, most probably not . Either way by applying the trope you're shutting down meaningful debate and the wonder why Trump won and Reform are growing. CR is right it's all utterly tedious.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141

    GIN1138 said:

    Can I just say, I don't give the remotest fuck about politicians' views on sandwiches.

    Neither do I. I just question why Badenoch has chosen to talk about this.
    Because she's young and inexperienced. She thought she'd be making a good joke but it backfired... She'll learn (hopefully)
    To be fair it was a very minor remark in a Spectator piece which commentators seized upon, ignoring all the serious bits. There's something odd about our taste in comments there - people would mostly rather read an irrelevant remark on sandwiches than try to wrap their brains round a complex issue.
    I read that Kemi’s ‘serious’ intent is to reframe Woke as progressive authoritarianism.

    Let’s stick with the sarnies.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143

    GIN1138 said:

    Can I just say, I don't give the remotest fuck about politicians' views on sandwiches.

    Neither do I. I just question why Badenoch has chosen to talk about this.
    Because she's young and inexperienced. She thought she'd be making a good joke but it backfired... She'll learn (hopefully)
    To be fair it was a very minor remark in a Spectator piece which commentators seized upon, ignoring all the serious bits. There's something odd about our taste in comments there - people would mostly rather read an irrelevant remark on sandwiches than try to wrap their brains round a complex issue.
    I read that Kemi’s ‘serious’ intent is to reframe Woke as progressive authoritarianism.

    Let’s stick with the sarnies.
    She is going to have to come up with something butter for sure.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “I was skeptical of the drone story. Then I saw them with my own eyes last night. DOZENS of them. And we got it on camera.
    @NewsNation #NJDRONES”

    https://x.com/richmchugh/status/1867746812838523387?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    PBers, decide for yourself

    People flying drones to spot the drones, probably.
    It’s fascinating because there are so many competing theories - from the minimalist “it’s just a flap and hallucinations” to the maximalist “aliens”

    The most plausible explanations surround advanced US tech that they are testing and are nonetheless trying to keep quiet. But that has flaws of its own

    And of course many of them are just planes and normal drones that are misidentified in the confusion and excitement

    Even in the reactions to that fairly level headed news report there are people saying “you’re an idiot it’s just a plane” even tho the journalist is sane and skeptical and insists it’s not a plane

    🤷🏼‍♂️
    Yep. The object that is the shape of a plane, with lights in the same places as on a plane, on the flight path into Newark, definitely isn't a plane.
    I hear you. To me, it looks really quite like a plane, in an area full of planes

    So either the journalist is

    1. A liar
    2. An idiot
    3. He's right, it isn't a plane

    If I was a prospering US news journalist I wouldn't risk my entire career - or at least reputation - by misidentifying an obvious plane. Nor does he look obviously stupid? But who knows
    Standard journalist plane identification guide


    lol!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In other matters, the shape of Starmer's next surrender is becoming clearer and clearer:

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/brussels-to-demand-uk-surrenders-fishing-rights-and-follows-eu-laws-7ptq59dw8

    I read that. Surely even Sir Sheer Wanker will not be that feeble, craven and treacherous. Give up all our hard won fishing rights AND once again subject us to EU law and the ECJ, only this time without any say in making those laws

    It’s the worst possible outcome of Brexit and would finish Starmer forever and go a long long way to making Farage PM in 2028. So he’ll probably do it
    Oh, he will.
    Yes, there’s a good chance he will

    And it will be a huge boost for Farage
    The fundamental problem for you far right guys is that Farage is actively disliked by enough people that he cannot attract a broad enough coalition of voters, even if he didn´t keep dropping the ball and wasn´t a charlatan.

    The increasingly weak Tories have screwed up yet another leadership election, and will probably look ever weaker versus Reform for a while, but that is not enough either, because under Farage the total right wing vote will not match the total centre and left vote, since too many previous Tories are already heading Lib Dem and will stay there. Reform could win all the previous red wall, but unless the kind of Tories that volunteer for the CAB or Residents Associations end their boycott, then the right, as in the early 80s for the left, will not be able to get anywhere close to a majority.

    Then of course Ms Leon (and the Daily Mail) assumes that because Trump has won and that Farage is Trumps little helper, that Farage is gaining from this. Yes, he is... for now. However, to an objective observer, Trump´s slate of candidates for his administration is not exactly the brightest and the best of a generation. In fact they are anti-science, spooky and even in America, are just plan weird. Trump could get lucky, but more likely is that he smashes things and fails.

    What then for the UK?

    The former Conservative vote Balkanised between hard-right Reform, cosplay-right rump Tories, and centrists going Lib Dem will keep the right out for many Parliaments, and if Starmer had the balls to go for fair votes, then the voters formerly known as Tory can remain split and see if the leaders of the three groups will work it out. Spoiler alert... they won´t because the Lib Dems loathe Farage and the feeling is sort of mutual. So the Tories might form something with Reform.. not enough.

    So sure Labour is weak and the Lib Dems... blah blah blah.

    Sure, but the beam is in your eye and not in Starmer´s. Even though the media can drop buckets of shit on Labour every day (which they barely waited a week after the election to start doing), the truth is that Brexit is a total fuck up and the Tories are toxic waste because of it. Neither is there any prospective Tory leader that can pull it back. So Farage gets votes and seats, right up until some massive US balls up covers Farage with his own fecal overcoat.

    So enjoy yourselves, but it ain´t going to last.
    too long. didnt read. soz
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143

    GIN1138 said:

    Can I just say, I don't give the remotest fuck about politicians' views on sandwiches.

    Neither do I. I just question why Badenoch has chosen to talk about this.
    Because she's young and inexperienced. She thought she'd be making a good joke but it backfired... She'll learn (hopefully)
    She’s 44!
    The window is pretty narrow for UK politicians. Approach 60 and you are seen as way too old and couldn't possibly last a full term. Under 50 and youre inexperienced. All very weird.
  • Construction, Tyneside, 1960s. Move along. Nothing to see here.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,125

    More evidence that Trump reads PB

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1867686000711155989

    The Republican Party will use its best efforts to eliminate Daylight Saving Time, which has a small but strong constituency, but shouldn’t! Daylight Saving Time is inconvenient, and very costly to our Nation.

    Daylight savings time is a complete shambles in America where each state does its own thing ....
    Sort of. The states can make requests, but ultimately the federal government has to approve what they do. The responsible agency is the Department of Transportation, a legacy of when the pressure for uniform time came from the railroads.

    And it's not entirely state-based - 15 states have more than one time zone.

    Anyway, it's slightly confusing, but surely not a COMPLETE mess, as America seems to survive somehow.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Can I just say, I don't give the remotest fuck about politicians' views on sandwiches.

    Neither do I. I just question why Badenoch has chosen to talk about this.
    Because she's young and inexperienced. She thought she'd be making a good joke but it backfired... She'll learn (hopefully)
    To be fair it was a very minor remark in a Spectator piece which commentators seized upon, ignoring all the serious bits. There's something odd about our taste in comments there - people would mostly rather read an irrelevant remark on sandwiches than try to wrap their brains round a complex issue.
    Kemi's Spectator interview and the wrong focus. I'd want to see the press release Michael Gove put out before grabbing my pitchfork.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In other matters, the shape of Starmer's next surrender is becoming clearer and clearer:

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/brussels-to-demand-uk-surrenders-fishing-rights-and-follows-eu-laws-7ptq59dw8

    I read that. Surely even Sir Sheer Wanker will not be that feeble, craven and treacherous. Give up all our hard won fishing rights AND once again subject us to EU law and the ECJ, only this time without any say in making those laws

    It’s the worst possible outcome of Brexit and would finish Starmer forever and go a long long way to making Farage PM in 2028. So he’ll probably do it
    Oh, he will.
    Yes, there’s a good chance he will

    And it will be a huge boost for Farage
    The fundamental problem for you far right guys is that Farage is actively disliked by enough people that he cannot attract a broad enough coalition of voters, even if he didn´t keep dropping the ball and wasn´t a charlatan.

    The increasingly weak Tories have screwed up yet another leadership election, and will probably look ever weaker versus Reform for a while, but that is not enough either, because under Farage the total right wing vote will not match the total centre and left vote, since too many previous Tories are already heading Lib Dem and will stay there. Reform could win all the previous red wall, but unless the kind of Tories that volunteer for the CAB or Residents Associations end their boycott, then the right, as in the early 80s for the left, will not be able to get anywhere close to a majority.

    Then of course Ms Leon (and the Daily Mail) assumes that because Trump has won and that Farage is Trumps little helper, that Farage is gaining from this. Yes, he is... for now. However, to an objective observer, Trump´s slate of candidates for his administration is not exactly the brightest and the best of a generation. In fact they are anti-science, spooky and even in America, are just plan weird. Trump could get lucky, but more likely is that he smashes things and fails.

    What then for the UK?

    The former Conservative vote Balkanised between hard-right Reform, cosplay-right rump Tories, and centrists going Lib Dem will keep the right out for many Parliaments, and if Starmer had the balls to go for fair votes, then the voters formerly known as Tory can remain split and see if the leaders of the three groups will work it out. Spoiler alert... they won´t because the Lib Dems loathe Farage and the feeling is sort of mutual. So the Tories might form something with Reform.. not enough.

    So sure Labour is weak and the Lib Dems... blah blah blah.

    Sure, but the beam is in your eye and not in Starmer´s. Even though the media can drop buckets of shit on Labour every day (which they barely waited a week after the election to start doing), the truth is that Brexit is a total fuck up and the Tories are toxic waste because of it. Neither is there any prospective Tory leader that can pull it back. So Farage gets votes and seats, right up until some massive US balls up covers Farage with his own fecal overcoat.

    So enjoy yourselves, but it ain´t going to last.
    Could be. There is a weakness in the script. What if Trump's second term is any of: good, peacemaking, successful, half OK, scary to our enemies, sorts out NATO, ends with world affairs a bit better than now? If some such thing were to happen, then the prospects for both right/centre right/anti wokes look brighter.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    edited December 14
    TimS said:

    Cicero said:

    People should stop arguing about sandwiches. We need a piece treaty.

    We should just roll with it.
    I don’t have a beef with that.
    It’s a PITA, all this bap and forth over a mere baguettelle. At least she’s not a sub. (That was Truss, as I recall).

    Let’s call it a wrap.
    Ms Truss was an iceberg, surely; you're thinking of something that has most/all its body under the surface, perhaps?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,521
    I think that Farage’s popularity is majorly underrated among commentators here. Again, it’s a case of “I don’t like the populist right, therefore the populist right can’t win.”

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Sean_F said:

    I think that Farage’s popularity is majorly underrated among commentators here. Again, it’s a case of “I don’t like the populist right, therefore the populist right can’t win.”

    Yep, same as Trump
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,053
    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    If there was a sympathy button ….
  • Two hours forward in summer. No change in winter.

    Get to it, SKS.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    You've had since April to do that.

    And I finished mine at 10am on April 6th - I'm still waiting for the £4,500 HMRC owe me but thankfully I'm in no rush for it.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694
    Sean_F said:

    I think that Farage’s popularity is majorly underrated among commentators here. Again, it’s a case of “I don’t like the populist right, therefore the populist right can’t win.”

    Farage would be less 'popular' if the BBC didn't insist on giving him 10x the airtime his position merits. Surely as he's got that other station that no-one watches the BBC could leave hm to that.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    edited December 14

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    If there was a sympathy button ….
    If we’re talking tax sympathy, welcome to my current tax dilemma.

    Years ago when we bought our French property, jointly with my parents, we did so through a type of property owning company called a Societe Civile Immobilier (SCI). Back then SCIs were the best means of bypassing the notorious Napoleonic succession laws that mean all property must be divided equally between offspring in the event of death.

    The tax effect in those days was neutral: you were taxed on any income or capital gains from the property as if you owned it directly.

    Now we’re about to start letting it out as a holiday home. In the meantime HMRC have decided that SCIs are a corporation subject to CT, rather than transparent. And ours would probably be considered UK resident. So letting income would be taxed as CT here, and as income tax in France. You can’t credit one against the other as they’re under different systems. So you pay double taxation, on a different profit basis, and quite possibly at an effective rate of more than 100%.

    How about getting rid of the SCI then? Well it turns out certain naughty French people were using them to hold property offshore and save tax so as well as closing the loophole and tightening up the tax rules on SCI income, the French fisc introduced an exit charge on disposal of property out of an SCI or winding up of the company, amounting to upwards of 5% of the market value.

    Bugger.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    ....
    Sean_F said:

    I think that Farage’s popularity is majorly underrated among commentators here. Again, it’s a case of “I don’t like the populist right, therefore the populist right can’t win.”

    I've not said that post the election, I see Farage as a clear and present danger.

    Those Tories on here who have been desperate for a Labour collapse since July 4th might not be the net beneficiaries of that Labour catastrophe.

    Although I do note on today's evidence PB Tories of a certain ilk are warming to the King of Clacton.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Leon said:

    As long as self-driving requires a certified driver to be present and ready to intercede at a moment's notice it's hugely flawed.

    Humans can concentrate at a low level for a long time. See playing video games, or just driving. But doing nothing yet being ready to act at a moment's notice on pain of serious injury/death, and holding that for hours on end, is not something we're psychologically capable of handling.

    One of the reasons that train drivers and pilots deserve every penny they earn.
    Does @Morris_Dancer believe waymo self drives have a certified driver “present and ready to intercede at any moment”?
    Waymo has remote drivers ready to take over, but they only get get handed control when the AI can't decide what to do.

    It used to happen quite frequently in Arizona, especially around the airport, but I think it's much less common these days.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694

    Sean_F said:

    I think that Farage’s popularity is majorly underrated among commentators here. Again, it’s a case of “I don’t like the populist right, therefore the populist right can’t win.”

    Farage would be less 'popular' if the BBC didn't insist on giving him 10x the airtime his position merits. Surely as he's got that other station that no-one watches the BBC could leave hm to that.
    It is odd that the libdems with 14x the number of seats is barely mentioned. Especially on QT.
    The only time recently I've seen a LibDem on BBCTV was Ed Davey on HIGNFY.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    Having a stand-off with tractor in front and a couple of vehicles behind on a narrow Devon lane will be about the last thing they ever master.

    If they ever do.
    I've come across more than one human driver who has struggled with less taxing scenarios on country lanes. And once the computer has fixed it, they will stay fixed, whereas there's always a new twerp to come across who hasn't used reverse gear since their driving test.

    Bearing in mind that there's not much difference to a computer between forwards and reverse, they'll probably end up finding it easier than humans before too long. Give it a few years and people will be chuckling to each other, "Remember before self-driving cars? Imagine Dave from accounts trying to do this?!?"
    If you look at TwiX, it’s full of people saying “OMG Waymos are brilliant, why did I never realise before”

    Just two examples:

    “I’m in a self-driving Waymo and it feels like the future. Haven’t felt this way in a long time.”

    https://x.com/dcurtis/status/1867738391653360084?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “I have taken several @Waymo ‘s this week in SF and have to admit, I prefer having no driver! 🤷🏻‍♂️”

    https://x.com/bradleydukebtc/status/1867793386117509175?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “Waymo is a 10x better experience than uber”

    https://x.com/benlkatz/status/1865823088648294807?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    You can’t pay for that kind of feedback. People vastly prefer self driving cars. @Nigelb was right to note the inflection point

    From here they will take over the world; I imagine the EU will ban them, and Britain will be caught in the regulatory net
    I take Waymo all the time. It's fine.

    But here's the thing: Uber is amazing at busy times, because (in the US) normal people become Uber drivers for an hour or two. Waymo is great when it's quiet, but because the fleet size is fixed, it's rubbish when it's busy.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213

    Sean_F said:

    I think that Farage’s popularity is majorly underrated among commentators here. Again, it’s a case of “I don’t like the populist right, therefore the populist right can’t win.”

    Farage would be less 'popular' if the BBC didn't insist on giving him 10x the airtime his position merits. Surely as he's got that other station that no-one watches the BBC could leave hm to that.
    It is odd that the libdems with 14x the number of seats is barely mentioned. Especially on QT.
    The only time recently I've seen a LibDem on BBCTV was Ed Davey on HIGNFY.
    If us Lib Dems would stop whingeing and instead pivot towards right wing populism and/or left wing rabble rousing we’d soon get our BBCQT count up.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    If there was a sympathy button ….
    And sliced onions, and violins, buttons ...
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,053
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    If there was a sympathy button ….
    And sliced onions, and violins, buttons ...
    Helping my daughter with her tax return tomorrow. I’ve been badgering her since September. Paperwork’s not her thing.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,720

    Leon said:

    “I was skeptical of the drone story. Then I saw them with my own eyes last night. DOZENS of them. And we got it on camera.
    @NewsNation #NJDRONES”

    https://x.com/richmchugh/status/1867746812838523387?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    PBers, decide for yourself

    People flying drones to spot the drones, probably.
    RQ-180?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    Having a stand-off with tractor in front and a couple of vehicles behind on a narrow Devon lane will be about the last thing they ever master.

    If they ever do.
    I've come across more than one human driver who has struggled with less taxing scenarios on country lanes. And once the computer has fixed it, they will stay fixed, whereas there's always a new twerp to come across who hasn't used reverse gear since their driving test.

    Bearing in mind that there's not much difference to a computer between forwards and reverse, they'll probably end up finding it easier than humans before too long. Give it a few years and people will be chuckling to each other, "Remember before self-driving cars? Imagine Dave from accounts trying to do this?!?"
    If you look at TwiX, it’s full of people saying “OMG Waymos are brilliant, why did I never realise before”

    Just two examples:

    “I’m in a self-driving Waymo and it feels like the future. Haven’t felt this way in a long time.”

    https://x.com/dcurtis/status/1867738391653360084?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “I have taken several @Waymo ‘s this week in SF and have to admit, I prefer having no driver! 🤷🏻‍♂️”

    https://x.com/bradleydukebtc/status/1867793386117509175?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “Waymo is a 10x better experience than uber”

    https://x.com/benlkatz/status/1865823088648294807?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    You can’t pay for that kind of feedback. People vastly prefer self driving cars. @Nigelb was right to note the inflection point

    From here they will take over the world; I imagine the EU will ban them, and Britain will be caught in the regulatory net
    I take Waymo all the time. It's fine.

    But here's the thing: Uber is amazing at busy times, because (in the US) normal people become Uber drivers for an hour or two. Waymo is great when it's quiet, but because the fleet size is fixed, it's rubbish when it's busy.
    But there will be competitors, Tesla etc, eventually they will flood the market, and have a clever algorithm to work out when to amp up supply. A driverless car just makes more sense, people clearly prefer it, it's cheaper (in the end) - no driver to pay, and - perhaps crucially - they are bound to be a lot safer, no drunk driving, no guy reading his phone as he drives, no one falling asleep at the wheel - thousands then millions of lives will be saved. So it is inevitable

    However, given that this is me saying this, you must multiply any time scale I offer by at least two. I reckon self drive will take over everything within 5-10 years, so it will probably be 10-20
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,720
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    You've had since April to do that.

    And I finished mine at 10am on April 6th - I'm still waiting for the £4,500 HMRC owe me but thankfully I'm in no rush for it.
    Who on earth does their taxes before they have to?

    Christmas means self assessment for the Flatlander household too.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    You've had since April to do that.

    And I finished mine at 10am on April 6th - I'm still waiting for the £4,500 HMRC owe me but thankfully I'm in no rush for it.
    Who on earth does their taxes as soon as they can? I admire your bravado and efficiency, I am afraid for me it is a dread day that I fend off as long as possible

    Also, I quite like doing it in the dark days of December, as it is already so gloomy, it's not so bad staying indoors for two-three depressing days, shuffling stupid bits of paper
  • eek said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    You've had since April to do that.

    And I finished mine at 10am on April 6th - I'm still waiting for the £4,500 HMRC owe me but thankfully I'm in no rush for it.
    Who on earth does their taxes before they have to?
    "Payment on account" says hello.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895

    Two hours forward in summer. No change in winter.

    Get to it, SKS.

    Just change the time on your alarm clock.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    You've had since April to do that.

    And I finished mine at 10am on April 6th - I'm still waiting for the £4,500 HMRC owe me but thankfully I'm in no rush for it.
    Who on earth does their taxes before they have to?
    "Payment on account" says hello.
    It's not just payment on account. This year, for some inexplicable reason, HMRC have decided to entirely change their system so I have to do two years in one go, with accompanying tax. So it's all gonna take twice as long and be twice as expensive. I'm still trying to work out what I gain from this
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,920

    ....

    Sean_F said:

    I think that Farage’s popularity is majorly underrated among commentators here. Again, it’s a case of “I don’t like the populist right, therefore the populist right can’t win.”

    I've not said that post the election, I see Farage as a clear and present danger.

    Those Tories on here who have been desperate for a Labour collapse since July 4th might not be the net beneficiaries of that Labour catastrophe.

    Although I do note on today's evidence PB Tories of a certain ilk are warming to the King of Clacton.
    Is that because he showed up as better than Badenough though in their recent spat?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    If there was a sympathy button ….
    If we’re talking tax sympathy, welcome to my current tax dilemma.

    Years ago when we bought our French property, jointly with my parents, we did so through a type of property owning company called a Societe Civile Immobilier (SCI). Back then SCIs were the best means of bypassing the notorious Napoleonic succession laws that mean all property must be divided equally between offspring in the event of death.

    The tax effect in those days was neutral: you were taxed on any income or capital gains from the property as if you owned it directly.

    Now we’re about to start letting it out as a holiday home. In the meantime HMRC have decided that SCIs are a corporation subject to CT, rather than transparent. And ours would probably be considered UK resident. So letting income would be taxed as CT here, and as income tax in France. You can’t credit one against the other as they’re under different systems. So you pay double taxation, on a different profit basis, and quite possibly at an effective rate of more than 100%.

    How about getting rid of the SCI then? Well it turns out certain naughty French people were using them to hold property offshore and save tax so as well as closing the loophole and tightening up the tax rules on SCI income, the French fisc introduced an exit charge on disposal of property out of an SCI or winding up of the company, amounting to upwards of 5% of the market value.

    Bugger.
    This is particularly cruel. Sympathies
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,521
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    Having a stand-off with tractor in front and a couple of vehicles behind on a narrow Devon lane will be about the last thing they ever master.

    If they ever do.
    I've come across more than one human driver who has struggled with less taxing scenarios on country lanes. And once the computer has fixed it, they will stay fixed, whereas there's always a new twerp to come across who hasn't used reverse gear since their driving test.

    Bearing in mind that there's not much difference to a computer between forwards and reverse, they'll probably end up finding it easier than humans before too long. Give it a few years and people will be chuckling to each other, "Remember before self-driving cars? Imagine Dave from accounts trying to do this?!?"
    If you look at TwiX, it’s full of people saying “OMG Waymos are brilliant, why did I never realise before”

    Just two examples:

    “I’m in a self-driving Waymo and it feels like the future. Haven’t felt this way in a long time.”

    https://x.com/dcurtis/status/1867738391653360084?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “I have taken several @Waymo ‘s this week in SF and have to admit, I prefer having no driver! 🤷🏻‍♂️”

    https://x.com/bradleydukebtc/status/1867793386117509175?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “Waymo is a 10x better experience than uber”

    https://x.com/benlkatz/status/1865823088648294807?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    You can’t pay for that kind of feedback. People vastly prefer self driving cars. @Nigelb was right to note the inflection point

    From here they will take over the world; I imagine the EU will ban them, and Britain will be caught in the regulatory net
    I take Waymo all the time. It's fine.

    But here's the thing: Uber is amazing at busy times, because (in the US) normal people become Uber drivers for an hour or two. Waymo is great when it's quiet, but because the fleet size is fixed, it's rubbish when it's busy.
    But there will be competitors, Tesla etc, eventually they will flood the market, and have a clever algorithm to work out when to amp up supply. A driverless car just makes more sense, people clearly prefer it, it's cheaper (in the end) - no driver to pay, and - perhaps crucially - they are bound to be a lot safer, no drunk driving, no guy reading his phone as he drives, no one falling asleep at the wheel - thousands then millions of lives will be saved. So it is inevitable

    However, given that this is me saying this, you must multiply any time scale I offer by at least two. I reckon self drive will take over everything within 5-10 years, so it will probably be 10-20
    However, driving is good for keeping one's brain active. It's why I'm no big fan of AI or case management systems. I want to keep my mind active, rather than have it atrophy.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    You've had since April to do that.

    And I finished mine at 10am on April 6th - I'm still waiting for the £4,500 HMRC owe me but thankfully I'm in no rush for it.
    Who on earth does their taxes before they have to?
    "Payment on account" says hello.
    It's not just payment on account. This year, for some inexplicable reason, HMRC have decided to entirely change their system so I have to do two years in one go, with accompanying tax. So it's all gonna take twice as long and be twice as expensive. I'm still trying to work out what I gain from this
    Bear in mind that the penalty regime has changed. In the old days they couldn't charge you more than you actually owed, if they thought it was your fault you were late. Now, doesn't matter if it is £1 or £100, they can still fine you £100 or whatever it is.

    July for us - in good time to find any other info, and even then be able to do a paper return if need be (the system wouldn't accept mrs C for years, possibly because of an apostrophe in the address causing an inconsistency in UKG records, though that seems to be sorted out now).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012
    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    T'is the season to be jolly, right enough, and share all your largesse with those less fortunate than yourself. Have you never watched the Muppet's Christmas Carol? It explains it all very clearly.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,521
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    You've had since April to do that.

    And I finished mine at 10am on April 6th - I'm still waiting for the £4,500 HMRC owe me but thankfully I'm in no rush for it.
    Who on earth does their taxes before they have to?
    "Payment on account" says hello.
    It's not just payment on account. This year, for some inexplicable reason, HMRC have decided to entirely change their system so I have to do two years in one go, with accompanying tax. So it's all gonna take twice as long and be twice as expensive. I'm still trying to work out what I gain from this
    For a variety of reasons I've faced a (for me) huge tax charge this year, c.£45,000. That hurts.
  • Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    You've had since April to do that.

    And I finished mine at 10am on April 6th - I'm still waiting for the £4,500 HMRC owe me but thankfully I'm in no rush for it.
    Who on earth does their taxes as soon as they can? I admire your bravado and efficiency, I am afraid for me it is a dread day that I fend off as long as possible

    Also, I quite like doing it in the dark days of December, as it is already so gloomy, it's not so bad staying indoors for two-three depressing days, shuffling stupid bits of paper
    It is the business of the wealthy man
    To give employment to the artisan


    Pay an accountant £500 or get one of those new-fangled computers that talk to HMRC for you.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited December 14
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Just thinking idly. Given my present driving licence predicament, does one need one to operate a self-driving car?

    As far as I'm aware, the law hasn't changed so yes, you do need a licence and the driver is still as responsible for what the car does as they would be for one they were driving themselves.

    Happy to be corrected if wrong.
    You’re wrong

    In the USA:

    “You do not need a driver’s license to ride in a Waymo self-driving car. Waymo’s autonomous vehicles are designed to operate without human intervention, allowing passengers to travel without possessing a driver’s license.

    Eligibility Requirements:

    • Age: Passengers must be at least 18 years old to ride alone. Minors can accompany an adult but cannot ride unaccompanied. 

    • App Registration: To use Waymo’s services, you need to download the Waymo One app and create an account. The registration process does not require a driver’s license.

    Additional Considerations:

    • Service Animals: Service animals are welcome. However, pets are not allowed to accommodate passengers with allergies. 

    • Child Safety: If you’re traveling with children under 8 years old, you must provide and install an appropriate car or booster seat in the back seat. 

    In summary, Waymo’s autonomous ride-hailing service is accessible to individuals without a driver’s license, provided they meet the age requirement and adhere to the company’s rider policies.”
    I was talking about the UK, which is presumably what's relevant to OKC.
    There aren’t any self drive cars commercially available in the UK, some are being tested right now in London. I think there was a pilot test in Milton Keynes as well

    However they will probably arrive in 2025-6, and the law will be the same as the USA. You won’t need a license to get in one
    I just don't see that happening. The industry are not in a position to make a sufficient safety case imo.

    We will follow and parallel Europe not the USA; the Usonians have killed nearly 1.5 million people on their roads since 1990, and no one wants that here.

    The previous Government might have done it as a displacement or Hail Mary Pass activity, but the new one will not like subjecting the public to a Wild West regulatory environment. It is already going to take at least 5 years just to recover from the various messes (eg chaos of illegal use of electric mopeds, of which we now have hundreds of thousands) that Sunak, Truss and the others left behind them.

    We may have limited trials, but I'd suggest it will start with self-driving cars requiring drivers present with full legal responsibility, and that will be for a number of years to see if it is practical.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    You've had since April to do that.

    And I finished mine at 10am on April 6th - I'm still waiting for the £4,500 HMRC owe me but thankfully I'm in no rush for it.
    Who on earth does their taxes before they have to?
    "Payment on account" says hello.
    It's not just payment on account. This year, for some inexplicable reason, HMRC have decided to entirely change their system so I have to do two years in one go, with accompanying tax. So it's all gonna take twice as long and be twice as expensive. I'm still trying to work out what I gain from this
    For a variety of reasons I've faced a (for me) huge tax charge this year, c.£45,000. That hurts.
    The last 18 months have been pretty grim for me. Since I took the King's shilling I have been paying tax on a PAYE basis and IN ADDITION (this deserves my inner @Leon ) I have got to pay taxes on all the money I earned and spent a couple of years ago on a self employed basis. The combined number is even worse than yours.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    You've had since April to do that.

    And I finished mine at 10am on April 6th - I'm still waiting for the £4,500 HMRC owe me but thankfully I'm in no rush for it.
    Who on earth does their taxes before they have to?
    "Payment on account" says hello.
    It's not just payment on account. This year, for some inexplicable reason, HMRC have decided to entirely change their system so I have to do two years in one go, with accompanying tax. So it's all gonna take twice as long and be twice as expensive. I'm still trying to work out what I gain from this
    For a variety of reasons I've faced a (for me) huge tax charge this year, c.£45,000. That hurts.
    It's nice being retired. All my pension providers tell the Revenue what they are paying me, so everything's taxed at source. I've got one exceptional payment, where I audit the accounts for a small local charity. HMRC know, and they aren't bothered.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,932

    kjh said:

    a

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That’s the future, right there. Self driving cars have arrived

    When they make it to rural areas it's going to have a massive impact on rural pubs and restaurants.
    They are going to be brilliant for those guys

    There will be so many they will be cheap and ubiquitous and everyone in the world will eventually abandon their own cars, apart from @BartholomewRoberts
    Can they be programmed not to park in disabled bays unless they have a permit?
    Tut tut

    But almost certainly yes
    I got a lift in a friends SUV - joint children’s outing. We stopped at supermarket. It recognised and flashed a disabled sign on the reversing screen. It had recognised that the bay next to the one we were backing into was marked for disabled.

    Forget the make…
    It is amazing what they can do. Mine will drive itself into and out of parking bays without me being in the car so you don't have the door opening issues. It steers itself. I have no idea how it does it so I have been too scared to try it. I have only watched the salesman do it with the car we bought. It manoeuvred itself beautifully with us all standing 20m away. There must be limits as to what it can do though. I presume I have to line it up in some way as I only have a button for forward or reversing and no steering. It sorts that out itself, but if there are multiple bays or I leave it 90 degrees to the bay presumably it can't do it (or it parks itself miles away in the direction it is pointing). I would play with it, but I don't know where my car may end up and me standing like a fool holding the key fob as it disappears into the distance.
    You might not have door-openings issues, but what about the poor sods parked next to you?
    Couldn't agree more. I never park like that. Of course if someone did that to me (and it has happened in the past) at least I would be able to get the car out. Only problem is I would probably need the manual to know what to do and that would be in the car and need me to open the door. Doh!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    ClippP said:

    ....

    Sean_F said:

    I think that Farage’s popularity is majorly underrated among commentators here. Again, it’s a case of “I don’t like the populist right, therefore the populist right can’t win.”

    I've not said that post the election, I see Farage as a clear and present danger.

    Those Tories on here who have been desperate for a Labour collapse since July 4th might not be the net beneficiaries of that Labour catastrophe.

    Although I do note on today's evidence PB Tories of a certain ilk are warming to the King of Clacton.
    Is that because he showed up as better than Badenough though in their recent spat?
    I don't believe so. I think the Trump win has helped normalise the previously abnormal. Although I don't suppose Badenoch being haughty and aloof helps. Although I'd take haughty and aloof all day over an unprincipled snake oil salesman.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited December 14

    Sean_F said:

    I think that Farage’s popularity is majorly underrated among commentators here. Again, it’s a case of “I don’t like the populist right, therefore the populist right can’t win.”

    Farage would be less 'popular' if the BBC didn't insist on giving him 10x the airtime his position merits. Surely as he's got that other station that no-one watches the BBC could leave hm to that.
    It is odd that the libdems with 14x the number of seats is barely mentioned. Especially on QT.
    The only time recently I've seen a LibDem on BBCTV was Ed Davey on HIGNFY.
    I caught a bit of the Private Eye review of the year on Youtube yesterday, and it was utterly predictable, utterly tedious and utterly smug. I won't link. I'm tempted to write an epitaph for Ian Hislop.

    Here lies smug
    Who ...

    A Reform PPB was more creative.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    You've had since April to do that.

    And I finished mine at 10am on April 6th - I'm still waiting for the £4,500 HMRC owe me but thankfully I'm in no rush for it.
    Who on earth does their taxes before they have to?
    "Payment on account" says hello.
    It's not just payment on account. This year, for some inexplicable reason, HMRC have decided to entirely change their system so I have to do two years in one go, with accompanying tax. So it's all gonna take twice as long and be twice as expensive. I'm still trying to work out what I gain from this
    For a variety of reasons I've faced a (for me) huge tax charge this year, c.£45,000. That hurts.
    My! No wonder you hanker after the swift return of a low tax Tory Government.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,521

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    You've had since April to do that.

    And I finished mine at 10am on April 6th - I'm still waiting for the £4,500 HMRC owe me but thankfully I'm in no rush for it.
    Who on earth does their taxes before they have to?
    "Payment on account" says hello.
    It's not just payment on account. This year, for some inexplicable reason, HMRC have decided to entirely change their system so I have to do two years in one go, with accompanying tax. So it's all gonna take twice as long and be twice as expensive. I'm still trying to work out what I gain from this
    For a variety of reasons I've faced a (for me) huge tax charge this year, c.£45,000. That hurts.
    My! No wonder you hanker after the swift return of a low tax Tory Government.
    Actually, this is all a result of tax rates under the last government. TBF, I got quite a bit of assistance during Covid.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    You've had since April to do that.

    And I finished mine at 10am on April 6th - I'm still waiting for the £4,500 HMRC owe me but thankfully I'm in no rush for it.
    Who on earth does their taxes before they have to?
    "Payment on account" says hello.
    It's not just payment on account. This year, for some inexplicable reason, HMRC have decided to entirely change their system so I have to do two years in one go, with accompanying tax. So it's all gonna take twice as long and be twice as expensive. I'm still trying to work out what I gain from this
    For a variety of reasons I've faced a (for me) huge tax charge this year, c.£45,000. That hurts.
    My! No wonder you hanker after the swift return of a low tax Tory Government.
    Actually, this is all a result of tax rates under the last government. TBF, I got quite a bit of assistance during Covid.
    I was joking.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    edited December 14
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    If there was a sympathy button ….
    If we’re talking tax sympathy, welcome to my current tax dilemma.

    Years ago when we bought our French property, jointly with my parents, we did so through a type of property owning company called a Societe Civile Immobilier (SCI). Back then SCIs were the best means of bypassing the notorious Napoleonic succession laws that mean all property must be divided equally between offspring in the event of death.

    The tax effect in those days was neutral: you were taxed on any income or capital gains from the property as if you owned it directly.

    Now we’re about to start letting it out as a holiday home. In the meantime HMRC have decided that SCIs are a corporation subject to CT, rather than transparent. And ours would probably be considered UK resident. So letting income would be taxed as CT here, and as income tax in France. You can’t credit one against the other as they’re under different systems. So you pay double taxation, on a different profit basis, and quite possibly at an effective rate of more than 100%.

    How about getting rid of the SCI then? Well it turns out certain naughty French people were using them to hold property offshore and save tax so as well as closing the loophole and tightening up the tax rules on SCI income, the French fisc introduced an exit charge on disposal of property out of an SCI or winding up of the company, amounting to upwards of 5% of the market value.

    Bugger.
    My next door neighbour is using the SCI--- system and is using it as a method of avoiding tax and costs. It is apparently a method by which the state can barely lay a glove on you and it works. As a member of our syndicate she chooses to pay nothing and as the property is now in the name of the SCI---- and not in her name there is no human to sue.

    I'm sure these aren't your motives but her property has caused our syndicate to spend a huge amount of money chasing a chimera. I with my 14 neighbours are not too fond of this peculiarly French farce though I like her very much. I don't take too much interest in the running of the building but i would be very interested to know in whose interest this system if it isn't just a tax dodge for those who want to keep their identities secret from the tax authorities
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited December 14
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    You've had since April to do that.

    And I finished mine at 10am on April 6th - I'm still waiting for the £4,500 HMRC owe me but thankfully I'm in no rush for it.
    Who on earth does their taxes before they have to?
    "Payment on account" says hello.
    It's not just payment on account. This year, for some inexplicable reason, HMRC have decided to entirely change their system so I have to do two years in one go, with accompanying tax. So it's all gonna take twice as long and be twice as expensive. I'm still trying to work out what I gain from this
    For a variety of reasons I've faced a (for me) huge tax charge this year, c.£45,000. That hurts.
    I've got one I need to work out.

    My ransom strip has finally sold. And I need to work out how the CGT increases in the budget apply - deed of sale signed before the budget but payment received by my solicitor afterwards.

    It's a good example of how developers can benefit just from time - this was an option agreement from about 2020 at an agreed price. They wanted an agreement with me in place so they could use "we have exclusive use of the best access for the next X years" to persuade the farmer to sell to *them*.

    Whilst inflation has eroded the amount they have paid me, and the money to the farmer's land for 100+ houses * to which they now have access, it will work the other way in that their Gross Development Value (ie money from selling them all) will have had an extra 5 years of house price increases.

    (* No, I didn't get 1/3 of value uplift, unfortunately, since the price I could demand was capped by the cost of an alternative access, and my maximum limit was set to be slightly less than the cost of the alternative to them. It's a useful pension top up, however.)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,394
    edited December 14
    MattW said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think that Farage’s popularity is majorly underrated among commentators here. Again, it’s a case of “I don’t like the populist right, therefore the populist right can’t win.”

    Farage would be less 'popular' if the BBC didn't insist on giving him 10x the airtime his position merits. Surely as he's got that other station that no-one watches the BBC could leave hm to that.
    It is odd that the libdems with 14x the number of seats is barely mentioned. Especially on QT.
    The only time recently I've seen a LibDem on BBCTV was Ed Davey on HIGNFY.
    I caught a bit of the Private Eye review of the year on Youtube yesterday, and it was utterly predictable, utterly tedious and utterly smug. I won't link. I'm tempted to write an epitaph for Ian Hislop.

    Here lies smug
    Who ...

    A Reform PPB was more creative.
    Same every year. I don't know why I bother. It's the self-congratulation you'd expect at their staff Christmas lunch, but in public.
  • Exclusive: Michael Gove spotted enjoying Christmas kiss with glamorous Oxford lecturer
    The pair stunned diners at London celebrity hotspot J Sheekey, where oysters can cost £79 a dozen, with a small serving of caviar costing £80

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/michael-gove-spotted-enjoying-christmas-34314054

    No sandwiches for Kemi's mentor, interviewer and Spectator boss Michael Gove.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    MattW said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    You've had since April to do that.

    And I finished mine at 10am on April 6th - I'm still waiting for the £4,500 HMRC owe me but thankfully I'm in no rush for it.
    Who on earth does their taxes before they have to?
    "Payment on account" says hello.
    It's not just payment on account. This year, for some inexplicable reason, HMRC have decided to entirely change their system so I have to do two years in one go, with accompanying tax. So it's all gonna take twice as long and be twice as expensive. I'm still trying to work out what I gain from this
    For a variety of reasons I've faced a (for me) huge tax charge this year, c.£45,000. That hurts.
    I've got one I need to work out.

    My ransom strip has finally sold. And I need to work out how the CGT increases in the budget apply - deed of sale signed before the budget but payment received by my solicitor afterwards.

    It's a good example of how developers can benefit just from time - this was an option agreement from about 2020 at an agreed price. They wanted an agreement with me in place so they could use "we have exclusive use of the best access for the next X years" to persuade the farmer to sell to *them*.

    Whilst inflation has eroded the amount they have paid me, and the money to the farmer's land for 100+ houses * to which they now have access, it will work the other way in that their Gross Development Value (ie money from selling them all) will have had an extra 5 years of house price increases.

    (* No, I didn't get 1/3 of value uplift, unfortunately, since the price I could demand was capped by the cost of an alternative access, and my maximum limit was set to be slightly less than the cost of the alternative to them. It's a useful pension top up, however.)
    Does everyone else on PB try to be their own accountant? I confess the thought gives me nightmares.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    For the self-driving sceptics.
    It already looks pretty well unstoppable in large urban centres.

    Waymo's market share is now equal to Lyft within SF. Incredible.

    Network effects is one of the best sources of defensibility. But it's proven to be not that important in ridesharing.

    You need a minimum network size, but once you have that, there are diminishing returns. In each geo, Uber and Lyft need enough drivers to have reasonable wait times. Once wait times hit that acceptable threshold, the incremental driver doesn't improve the rider experience (eg if my Uber ride is coming in 2-4 minutes, I don't really care about the wait times getting faster).

    When Waymo launched in August 2023, Uber and Lyft were at 66% and 34% share in SF.

    15 months later in November 2024, Waymo is at 22% - the same as Lyft - with Uber at 55%.

    Both Uber and Lyft lost low double digit % pts of market share, but it's more painful for Lyft. Lyft gave up ~1/3 of their share. Uber lost ~1/6...

    https://x.com/aleximm/status/1867257473671082356

    This is why Tesla are building Robotaxis. Automation will roll out, and when it does the likes of Uber will happily remove the human factor and simply have the whole network automated.
    I predicted self driving cars taking over, ten years ago. Unfortunately I predicted they’d be here in five years. On that basis expect whatever I predict to happen, to happen, but double my time estimate
    Remind me then, when does that move ‘Brexit becoming a success’ to?
  • THE China spy linked to Prince Andrew also rubbed shoulders with British political leaders including David Cameron, Theresa May and George Osborne.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/32307253/china-spy-prince-andrew-david-cameron-theresa-may/

    The Sun on Sunday has pictures of 00-qī mingling with the great and good.
  • Ex-Man City footballer Mikheil Kavelashvili is new president of Georgia.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5ygejxej28o
  • Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    For the self-driving sceptics.
    It already looks pretty well unstoppable in large urban centres.

    Waymo's market share is now equal to Lyft within SF. Incredible.

    Network effects is one of the best sources of defensibility. But it's proven to be not that important in ridesharing.

    You need a minimum network size, but once you have that, there are diminishing returns. In each geo, Uber and Lyft need enough drivers to have reasonable wait times. Once wait times hit that acceptable threshold, the incremental driver doesn't improve the rider experience (eg if my Uber ride is coming in 2-4 minutes, I don't really care about the wait times getting faster).

    When Waymo launched in August 2023, Uber and Lyft were at 66% and 34% share in SF.

    15 months later in November 2024, Waymo is at 22% - the same as Lyft - with Uber at 55%.

    Both Uber and Lyft lost low double digit % pts of market share, but it's more painful for Lyft. Lyft gave up ~1/3 of their share. Uber lost ~1/6...

    https://x.com/aleximm/status/1867257473671082356

    This is why Tesla are building Robotaxis. Automation will roll out, and when it does the likes of Uber will happily remove the human factor and simply have the whole network automated.
    I predicted self driving cars taking over, ten years ago. Unfortunately I predicted they’d be here in five years. On that basis expect whatever I predict to happen, to happen, but double my time estimate
    Remind me then, when does that move ‘Brexit becoming a success’ to?
    Dan Hannan Day, fireworks and all, is 24 June 2025.

    Still, I'm sure it will all be tickety-boo by then.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    Roger said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    OK can we all have a quiet, prayerful moment as I sit down and.... do my taxes

    Who the FUCK called this "the festive season"?

    If there was a sympathy button ….
    If we’re talking tax sympathy, welcome to my current tax dilemma.

    Years ago when we bought our French property, jointly with my parents, we did so through a type of property owning company called a Societe Civile Immobilier (SCI). Back then SCIs were the best means of bypassing the notorious Napoleonic succession laws that mean all property must be divided equally between offspring in the event of death.

    The tax effect in those days was neutral: you were taxed on any income or capital gains from the property as if you owned it directly.

    Now we’re about to start letting it out as a holiday home. In the meantime HMRC have decided that SCIs are a corporation subject to CT, rather than transparent. And ours would probably be considered UK resident. So letting income would be taxed as CT here, and as income tax in France. You can’t credit one against the other as they’re under different systems. So you pay double taxation, on a different profit basis, and quite possibly at an effective rate of more than 100%.

    How about getting rid of the SCI then? Well it turns out certain naughty French people were using them to hold property offshore and save tax so as well as closing the loophole and tightening up the tax rules on SCI income, the French fisc introduced an exit charge on disposal of property out of an SCI or winding up of the company, amounting to upwards of 5% of the market value.

    Bugger.
    My next door neighbour is using the SCI--- system and is using it as a method of avoiding tax and costs. It is apparently a method by which the state can barely lay a glove on you and it works. As a member of our syndicate she chooses to pay nothing and as the property is now in the name of the SCI---- and not in her name there is no human to sue.

    I'm sure these aren't your motives but her property has caused our syndicate to spend a huge amount of money chasing a chimera. I with my 14 neighbours are not too fond of this peculiarly French farce though I like her very much. I don't take too much interest in the running of the building but i would be very interested to know in whose interest this system if it isn't just a tax dodge for those who want to keep their identities secret from the tax authorities
    That’s precisely the issue. It’s that French hinterland between tax avoidance and evasion. Well actually no, as far as I can see it’s straight up evasion and secrecy.

    If you hold property in an SCI and operate properly and transparently then there is no tax advantage - it’s treated as transparent if small so you’re taxed as an individual, or as a corporate if a fully fledged trading business. But French people have been using them to evade tax behind a wall of secrecy. That’s what the recent reforms have targeted.

    For people like me who set one up for completely different reasons and have zero intention of hiding anything from the authorities it’s an utter pain.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    edited December 14

    Exclusive: Michael Gove spotted enjoying Christmas kiss with glamorous Oxford lecturer
    The pair stunned diners at London celebrity hotspot J Sheekey, where oysters can cost £79 a dozen, with a small serving of caviar costing £80

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/michael-gove-spotted-enjoying-christmas-34314054

    No sandwiches for Kemi's mentor, interviewer and Spectator boss Michael Gove.

    You'd be entitled to a little discretion from Sheekey if they are charging £79 for a dozen oysters
  • Exclusive: Michael Gove spotted enjoying Christmas kiss with glamorous Oxford lecturer
    The pair stunned diners at London celebrity hotspot J Sheekey, where oysters can cost £79 a dozen, with a small serving of caviar costing £80

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/michael-gove-spotted-enjoying-christmas-34314054

    No sandwiches for Kemi's mentor, interviewer and Spectator boss Michael Gove.

    That is spooky, I was compiling a list of restaurants JohnO and I might frequent at our next PB Tory summit and J Sheekey was on the list.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970

    Ex-Man City footballer Mikheil Kavelashvili is new president of Georgia.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5ygejxej28o

    I don't suppose he's available tomorrow is he?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    The biggest advantage of Waymo is that I don't have to endure inane conversation.

    The biggest downside is that I can't give specific instructions to the driver: "no, don't drop me here - can you go 100 yards further up, because that's where the pedestrian entrance is", or "I'd prefer it if you dropped us on my side of the street, so can you go one further road up before turning and then you'll be on the right side of the road."
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807

    Exclusive: Michael Gove spotted enjoying Christmas kiss with glamorous Oxford lecturer
    The pair stunned diners at London celebrity hotspot J Sheekey, where oysters can cost £79 a dozen, with a small serving of caviar costing £80

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/michael-gove-spotted-enjoying-christmas-34314054

    No sandwiches for Kemi's mentor, interviewer and Spectator boss Michael Gove.

    That is spooky, I was compiling a list of restaurants JohnO and I might frequent at our next PB Tory summit and J Sheekey was on the list.
    I hope you both have strong stomachs.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934

    Exclusive: Michael Gove spotted enjoying Christmas kiss with glamorous Oxford lecturer
    The pair stunned diners at London celebrity hotspot J Sheekey, where oysters can cost £79 a dozen, with a small serving of caviar costing £80

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/michael-gove-spotted-enjoying-christmas-34314054

    No sandwiches for Kemi's mentor, interviewer and Spectator boss Michael Gove.

    That is spooky, I was compiling a list of restaurants JohnO and I might frequent at our next PB Tory summit and J Sheekey was on the list.
    No more?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Fishing said:

    More evidence that Trump reads PB

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1867686000711155989

    The Republican Party will use its best efforts to eliminate Daylight Saving Time, which has a small but strong constituency, but shouldn’t! Daylight Saving Time is inconvenient, and very costly to our Nation.

    Daylight savings time is a complete shambles in America where each state does its own thing ....
    Sort of. The states can make requests, but ultimately the federal government has to approve what they do. The responsible agency is the Department of Transportation, a legacy of when the pressure for uniform time came from the railroads.

    And it's not entirely state-based - 15 states have more than one time zone.

    Anyway, it's slightly confusing, but surely not a COMPLETE mess, as America seems to survive somehow.
    In 2018, California voted by ballot proposition to abolish Daylight Savings Time and the Trump administration blocked its implementation!
This discussion has been closed.