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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Preview: March 20th 2014

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  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    For as much stick as Question Time gets, in my view the fact it moves around the country makes it one of the most accurate "weather-vanes" of political opinion. For the second time in a few weeks (after Scunthorpe a few weeks ago), northerners are rightly venting their fury at politicians pandering to the south east constantly and taking away from the rest of the country to give to the south east. Yet the establishment remains blissfully unaware of it.

    Eh, let the northern england vote for independence if they hate it that much* ;)

    *written from the south-west. We hate the south-east too.

    An independent South-West would be a desolate wasteland.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    Charles - Attlee and Wilson all won elections in terms of both the popular vote and seats, and neither were exactly Christian Democrats
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    For as much stick as Question Time gets, in my view the fact it moves around the country makes it one of the most accurate "weather-vanes" of political opinion. For the second time in a few weeks (after Scunthorpe a few weeks ago), northerners are rightly venting their fury at politicians pandering to the south east constantly and taking away from the rest of the country to give to the south east. Yet the establishment remains blissfully unaware of it.

    Eh, let the northern england vote for independence if they hate it that much* ;)

    *written from the south-west. We hate the south-east too.

    An independent South-West would be a desolate wasteland.
    LOLOLOLOL cheerio South West get back on with the tin mining!

  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Burnham is toasting them.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    SeanT said:

    BobaFett said:

    SeanT said:

    BobaFett said:

    I said earlier this week that the Budget was a set-piece for the govt and Labour just had to ride it out. That's the game they are in.

    The time for a move on policy will come, but it is not now. They need clear air.

    But Labour - very clearly - do not have a clue. Not a Scooby. They just want to get elected, and then they will enact exactly the same plans as the Coalition, with some stupid Francois Hollandey bits added on, those policies which have done so well for France, the Sick Man of Europe.

    Doesn't that unnerve you, as an honest lefty? Really?

    It unnerves me. This is, in the round, the worst opposition since Hague in 01 or Foot in 83, both of whom very definitely deserved to lose - yet Balls and Miliband will probably win, thanks to electoral bias.

    That would be a tragedy for our country, it almost makes me want Salmond to win his referendum, just to stop Labour. And I am a unionist.
    I think that you are right that they will stick to Tory spending plans. But I also think you will like Ed, when you see him as PM. He is One of Us.
    No he's not, he's a f*cking moron, he's like me without the amusing/appalling (strike out as you see fit) whoring, drinking and thriller writing. He's a middle aged, affluent, son-of-a-famous-dude, cerebral north Londoner of faintly ideological bent who hasn't a clue what to do with a country but has vague aspirations that don't really make sense if you pin him down.

    He is Me. FFS he used to live two streets away and we are *probably* within two sexual degrees of consanguinity (almost certainly, in fact).

    Yes, I would far prefer it if grammar-school girls like Thatcher were leading the Tory party, but they're not, it's Cameron, but even with Cameron in power there is basic competence to this stupidly posh, mildly repulsive Tory government which will be LACKING from Miliband's.

    *exhales*
    LOL. A brilliant way of admitting it.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @BobaFett

    'But I also think you will like Ed, when you see him as PM. He is One of Us.'

    Hilarious.

    A millionaire with his property empire,£2.3 million house & £400,000 mortgage..
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    edited March 2014

    Interesting the desperation in Labour posters on here trying to diss the budget.. We won't really know how its gone down for some time, People need to get to grips with their new options..

    Not sure where you're finding the desperation? I'd say that, sadly, the proportion of people not in the 60-65 age range getting to grips with their pension provision at any one time never exceeds 5%. Most people roll their eyes, shake their heads, and think about something simpler. Not really a political point since it's true under all governments, whether or not they're making large changes.

    Part of the reason, of course, is that they reckon that by the time they get round to retiring, the circumstances will probably be different, so there's just no point in getting interested in new drawdown options etc. when you're, say, 45. I took some Tory stick here for saying that I didn't think most people would feel engaged by it all, but it's still true - even if it shouldn't be.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    For as much stick as Question Time gets, in my view the fact it moves around the country makes it one of the most accurate "weather-vanes" of political opinion. For the second time in a few weeks (after Scunthorpe a few weeks ago), northerners are rightly venting their fury at politicians pandering to the south east constantly and taking away from the rest of the country to give to the south east. Yet the establishment remains blissfully unaware of it.

    Eh, let the northern england vote for independence if they hate it that much* ;)

    *written from the south-west. We hate the south-east too.

    An independent South-West would be a desolate wasteland.
    To be fair we mostly hate the south-east because we get associated with all the things people hate about them, as a result of being general 'southerners', when we're just as dominated by them as the north and midlands are (well, maybe not quite as much), so it ain't our fault.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    Interesting the desperation in Labour posters on here trying to diss the budget.. We won't really know how its gone down for some time, People need to get to grips with their new options..

    Not sure where you're finding the desperation? I'd say that, sadly, the proportion of people not in the 60-65 age range getting to grips with their pension provision at any one time never exceeds 5%. Most people roll their eyes, shake their heads, and think about something simpler. Not really a political point since it's true under all governments, whether or not they're making large changes.

    Part of the reason, of course, is that they reckon that by the time they get round to retiring, the circumstances will probably be different, so there's just no point in getting interested in new drawdown options etc. when you're, say, 45. I took some Tory stick here for saying that I didn't think most people would feel engaged by it all, but it's still true - even if it shouldn't be.

    Only because labour buggered up the pension system with removal of tax credits and cutting interest rates to pay for handouts for spongers and over spending!
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,789
    rcs1000 said:



    I wouldn't over-estimate regulations. Small businesses in the UK are among the free-est of any in the developed world, and certainly massively less regulated than ones in the US. To put in context, a limited company in the UK is basically only required to fill out about four forms a year for the government - one for corporation tax, and three for Companies House. If you are VAT registered then it's a bit worse - but it's certainly not got any worse since the early 1970s.

    Sorry mate but you've made yourself look a bit silly with that comment.

    I can assure you that all the payroll, environmental, H&S, QA etc requirements amount to much more than they did ten or twenty years ago.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Burnham is one of the few Labour front benchers who combines clear policy direction and the emotional intelligence required to connect to an audience. I like him.

    I still prefer Liz Kendall though/

    Burnham is toasting them.

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    I do love a bit of Politicshome....tonights headlines:

    Top headline: 'LAMBORGHINI' PENSIONS

    Second headline: 2M MORE ON 40P RATE - IFS

    Third Headline: BEDROOM TAX WARNING

    Fourth Headline: TORY AD SLAMMED

    Fifth Headline : CAM FIRM ON RUSSIA

    Yep, that budget went down a storm.

    The telegraphs front page not helpful to tories


    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/94926/the_daily_telegraph_friday_21st_march_2014.html



    I do love a bit of Politicshome....tonights headlines:

    Top headline: 'LAMBORGHINI' PENSIONS

    Second headline: 2M MORE ON 40P RATE - IFS

    Third Headline: BEDROOM TAX WARNING

    Fourth Headline: TORY AD SLAMMED

    Fifth Headline : CAM FIRM ON RUSSIA

    Yep, that budget went down a storm.

    The telegraphs front page not helpful to tories


    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/94926/the_daily_telegraph_friday_21st_march_2014.html



    The 40p fiscal drag was always going to be a slow burner - yet Iain Martin picked this up at the time .
    Quite dreadful front pages on the rightwing quality press.
    Do we yet know what the Mail has?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    HYUFD said:

    Charles - Attlee and Wilson all won elections in terms of both the popular vote and seats, and neither were exactly Christian Democrats

    HYUFD - I was talking about England in particular.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    There's a comedian on the fp of The Sun.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    BobaFett said:

    I do love a bit of Politicshome....tonights headlines:

    Top headline: 'LAMBORGHINI' PENSIONS

    Second headline: 2M MORE ON 40P RATE - IFS

    Third Headline: BEDROOM TAX WARNING

    Fourth Headline: TORY AD SLAMMED

    Fifth Headline : CAM FIRM ON RUSSIA

    Yep, that budget went down a storm.

    The telegraphs front page not helpful to tories


    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/94926/the_daily_telegraph_friday_21st_march_2014.html



    I do love a bit of Politicshome....tonights headlines:

    Top headline: 'LAMBORGHINI' PENSIONS

    Second headline: 2M MORE ON 40P RATE - IFS

    Third Headline: BEDROOM TAX WARNING

    Fourth Headline: TORY AD SLAMMED

    Fifth Headline : CAM FIRM ON RUSSIA

    Yep, that budget went down a storm.

    The telegraphs front page not helpful to tories


    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/94926/the_daily_telegraph_friday_21st_march_2014.html



    The 40p fiscal drag was always going to be a slow burner - yet Iain Martin picked this up at the time .
    Quite dreadful front pages on the rightwing quality press.
    Do we yet know what the Mail has?
    The Mail stayed loyal.

    https://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/94932/the_daily_mail_friday_21st_march_2014.html
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Carola said:

    There's a comedian on the fp of The Sun.


    Boom boom!
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    BobaFett said:

    I do love a bit of Politicshome....tonights headlines:

    Top headline: 'LAMBORGHINI' PENSIONS

    Second headline: 2M MORE ON 40P RATE - IFS

    Third Headline: BEDROOM TAX WARNING

    Fourth Headline: TORY AD SLAMMED

    Fifth Headline : CAM FIRM ON RUSSIA

    Yep, that budget went down a storm.

    The telegraphs front page not helpful to tories


    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/94926/the_daily_telegraph_friday_21st_march_2014.html



    I do love a bit of Politicshome....tonights headlines:

    Top headline: 'LAMBORGHINI' PENSIONS

    Second headline: 2M MORE ON 40P RATE - IFS

    Third Headline: BEDROOM TAX WARNING

    Fourth Headline: TORY AD SLAMMED

    Fifth Headline : CAM FIRM ON RUSSIA

    Yep, that budget went down a storm.

    The telegraphs front page not helpful to tories


    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/94926/the_daily_telegraph_friday_21st_march_2014.html



    The 40p fiscal drag was always going to be a slow burner - yet Iain Martin picked this up at the time .
    Quite dreadful front pages on the rightwing quality press.
    Do we yet know what the Mail has?
    Still on side,I think ;-)

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/94932/the_daily_mail_friday_21st_march_2014.html

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    The dire performance of your, and mine, pension fund over the last 15 years is closely connected with the dire performance of the UK stock market over the same period and one stage further the dire performance of the UK economy over the same period.

    That of course doesn't stop those financial services parasites, which we're all supposed to admire, from taking their cut from pension fund contributions for the 'services' they have rendered.

    Almost all stock markets have performed poorly in the last 13 years, just as almost all performed very well in the previous 20. The period 2000 to (so far) 2014 has been an undulating bear market, just as was the period 1968 to 1980, and 1929 to 1945. 20 year bull markets, followed by 15 year bear ones. It's pretty much the lesson of the last 150 years, and we're (hopefully) right at the end of this one.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Interesting the desperation in Labour posters on here trying to diss the budget.. We won't really know how its gone down for some time, People need to get to grips with their new options..

    Not sure where you're finding the desperation? I'd say that, sadly, the proportion of people not in the 60-65 age range getting to grips with their pension provision at any one time never exceeds 5%. Most people roll their eyes, shake their heads, and think about something simpler. Not really a political point since it's true under all governments, whether or not they're making large changes.

    Part of the reason, of course, is that they reckon that by the time they get round to retiring, the circumstances will probably be different, so there's just no point in getting interested in new drawdown options etc. when you're, say, 45. I took some Tory stick here for saying that I didn't think most people would feel engaged by it all, but it's still true - even if it shouldn't be.

    I think you're doing many people a disservice; I'd credit them with more intelligence, and a greater interest in their futures than you do.

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    Burnham is one of the few Labour front benchers who combines clear policy direction and the emotional intelligence required to connect to an audience. I like him.

    I still prefer Liz Kendall though/


    Burnham is toasting them.

    I wonder why ;-)
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    rcs1000 said:

    @surbiton: the current problem is that low interest rate make annuity yields awful. If I had the choice between investing in basket of blue chip shares, yielding more than an annuity, and an annuity, I would be a fool to pick the latter. Indeed, as the income stream from the shares would be expected to grow at a rate faster than inflation, I would be a double winner. One final advantage: when I passed away, I would still own the shares, so my children would get something.

    There is a wonderful opportunity for financial services companies to make variable annuities, which are - say - one half traditional annuity, one half high dividend shares.

    Spot on, on all the points you make.

    Osborne's reforms are a real Thatcherite game-changer, comparable in their significance to Big Bang, Right to Buy, or the end of exchange controls. The full implications will take a long time to sink in, but here are a few pointers:

    1) As you rightly say, financial services companies (yes, I know, I know..) have a great opportunity here. The share prices of some of them fell back, or collapsed, after Osborne's announcement, but that is a mistake. They'll find a way to offer products which are a much better fit to what people actually want and need than conventional level annuities, which are the most inflexible investment known to man.

    2) Even without such products, a basket of 20 good-yielding blue-chip shares (yielding between 4% and 5% dividends, which are very likely to increase over time, and which may also increase in capital terms over 20 years) is a far better bet than a level annuity, yielding initially 5%, and fixed until death, when it's worth zero. It's a no-brainer.

    3) There's a whole raft of implications for care for the elderly. Pension funds could become part of the solution to this hitherto completely intractable problem.
    Spot on.

    Most of my money is in Fundsmith, nothing spectacular but steady stuff, wrap as much as possible in their ISA and away you go.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    BobaFett said:

    Burnham is one of the few Labour front benchers who combines clear policy direction and the emotional intelligence required to connect to an audience. I like him.

    I still prefer Liz Kendall though/


    Burnham is toasting them.

    I wonder why ;-)
    Rachel Reeves :)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    A rising star. I like 'em a bit feisty.
    BobaFett said:

    Burnham is one of the few Labour front benchers who combines clear policy direction and the emotional intelligence required to connect to an audience. I like him.

    I still prefer Liz Kendall though/


    Burnham is toasting them.

    I wonder why ;-)
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Burnham is toasting them.

    Did you explain to us what this thing called 'bedroom tax' is yet?
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    rcs1000 said:

    The dire performance of your, and mine, pension fund over the last 15 years is closely connected with the dire performance of the UK stock market over the same period and one stage further the dire performance of the UK economy over the same period.

    That of course doesn't stop those financial services parasites, which we're all supposed to admire, from taking their cut from pension fund contributions for the 'services' they have rendered.

    Almost all stock markets have performed poorly in the last 13 years, just as almost all performed very well in the previous 20. The period 2000 to (so far) 2014 has been an undulating bear market, just as was the period 1968 to 1980, and 1929 to 1945. 20 year bull markets, followed by 15 year bear ones. It's pretty much the lesson of the last 150 years, and we're (hopefully) right at the end of this one.
    Go the bull market 2015-2035 for the Ave It ISA! Especially when I transfer in £70,000 from my cash ISA 01.07.2014!
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Did I just hear Raab say "There is no Mandella in the Ukraine"....WTF is that all about?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited March 2014

    Interesting the desperation in Labour posters on here trying to diss the budget.. We won't really know how its gone down for some time, People need to get to grips with their new options..

    Not sure where you're finding the desperation?

    The only comment of note that has had any traction in opposition to the budget has been the godsdamned bingo poster criticism. That nothing else of note in criticism has emanated from labour and, as of yet, gained any momentum, shows the desperation by which people have tried to get the idiotic part 'trending'. Ideally you would draw attention with the silly thing to make a deeper point, but as someone who has only been scanning the political airwaves and internet waves since the budget (and as such, doing so more than most people if not as much as some), all I've seen from labour bar the bingo crap has been the standard cliches which have nothing to do with the budget itself (Eton - did you know Cameron went there, because I sure didn't -, out of touch, unbalanced recovery, too little too late).

    I am certain Labour figures have been saying things of more substance, and you raise issues about the specifics of the budget which it would be nice to hear about more widely, but that hasn't broken through it seems, and the only thing that has, and so the thing that has been played up the most, has been trivial crap, and that shows desperation.

    Not significant desperation I stress, just localized desperation - Labour's situation is still looking very good, they are not exactly panicking, they just haven't done great out of the budget and so are pushing whatever nonsense has made some headway. They need to direct some more of that energy toward the more substantive points now, before Osborne can gain a narrative of competence back.

    The reverse happened two years ago. The Tories could have suffered less with the omnishambles budget, but they had poor damage control and made things worse instead. This time, Labour were uninspiring, and are failing to use the flashy trivial stuff to actually undermine Osborne by tying it to serious points about his budget (instead trying to just add to the already established narrative of Tories being out of touch, which is like adding a cup of water to a swimming pool - hardly worth the effort as it won't make an appreciable difference to the volume already there).
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821


    Sorry mate but you've made yourself look a bit silly with that comment.

    I can assure you that all the payroll, environmental, H&S, QA etc requirements amount to much more than they did ten or twenty years ago.

    Hmm, not so sure about that. I've been a director of small companies since 1980, and overall for us at least I'd say it's got easier. mostly because you can do so much on-line nowadays, and because import/export is massively easier than it was 20 years ago - thanks partly (whisper it quietly) to the EU.

    Admittedly my area of business (software) is one where H&S and environmental regulations are less of an issue than they would be for some other industries, so it may well be that your mileage varies. On the other hand, any increased aggravation you've experienced is probably no more than similar companies in the rest of Europe, or indeed in the US (which is extremely bureaucratic) have experienced.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    Burnham is toasting them.

    Did you explain to us what this thing called 'bedroom tax' is yet?
    Did you ask Lord Tebbit?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    rcs1000 said:



    I wouldn't over-estimate regulations. Small businesses in the UK are among the free-est of any in the developed world, and certainly massively less regulated than ones in the US. To put in context, a limited company in the UK is basically only required to fill out about four forms a year for the government - one for corporation tax, and three for Companies House. If you are VAT registered then it's a bit worse - but it's certainly not got any worse since the early 1970s.

    Sorry mate but you've made yourself look a bit silly with that comment.

    I can assure you that all the payroll, environmental, H&S, QA etc requirements amount to much more than they did ten or twenty years ago.
    I have founded a number (at least five) of UK businesses, and I can assure you that there is surprisingly little regulation - at least in the technology sectors that I'm typically involved in.

    Payroll regulations are likely handled by your outsourced payroll provider, which will do everything for you at a cost of a couple of quid per employee per month.

    Environmental regulations for a software company, or anything white collar are pretty much non-existant. Even for the solar battery business I was involved in (which actually made things), there virtually nothing that any responsible employer wouldn't do. (Meeting CE standards is not a major difficulty.)

    Heallth & Safety regulations for most businesses involves sticking a poster on the wall, and making sure you have liability insurance.

    What is QA? And what are the regulations.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Burnham is toasting them.

    Did you explain to us what this thing called 'bedroom tax' is yet?
    Chris Leslie had great difficulty giving a reasonable explanation to Brillo on The Daily Politics, so don't hold out for much from 'pouter.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    Did I just hear Raab say "There is no Mandella in the Ukraine"....WTF is that all about?

    Probably a reference to the undemocratic overthrow of the last government? Or the presence of quasi-Fascists in the new one?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    john_zims said:

    @BobaFett

    'But I also think you will like Ed, when you see him as PM. He is One of Us.'

    Hilarious.

    A millionaire with his property empire,£2.3 million house & £400,000 mortgage..

    That's not the point. Blair was seen by many as 'one of us'. I remember some old woman describing Princess Diana as 'one of us', just after she died (Diana, not the old woman). Miliband being rich doesn't make him not one of us. It's how he sounds and acts that does that.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    Burnham is toasting them.

    Did you explain to us what this thing called 'bedroom tax' is yet?
    Chris Leslie had great difficulty giving a reasonable explanation to Brillo on The Daily Politics, so don't hold out for much from 'pouter.
    I was quoting a warning on the Bedroom Tax from Lord Tebbit....don't shoot the messenger.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The Budget response, unfortunately, dramatised the second underlying truth of British politics, which is that Labour remains terminally vulnerable on the economy. Mr Miliband was reduced to recycling his speech because, boxed into a corner, he doesn’t know what else he can say. The speech he gave on Wednesday was the sum total of his errors of strategy.

    The most calamitous error, from which there has never been a clear way back, was not to concede, early and clearly, that Labour had carried on spending long after retrenchment was needed. Refusing to admit any culpability at all gave Mr Osborne the opportunity he relished to pin all the blame on Labour.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4040023.ece
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Boo to Labour!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Labour continued to prevaricate over whether they oppose George Osborne’s pension reforms as the debate over the Chancellor’s proposals turned nasty.

    The Labour front bench may determine their position on the central issue of the Budget today in Perth as key players gather for the start of Labour’s Scottish conference. Sources said that a decision had to be made before next Thursday when the welfare section of the Budget is debated. There is huge pressure on Ed Miliband to oppose the move, but some around him worry he may end up campaigning against a popular change.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4040080.ece
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Rushcliffe result Con hold

    Con 444 44.3% - 10.0%
    Lab 218 21.7% - 3.2%
    UKIP 173 17.2% + 17.2%
    LDem 170 16.9% + 6.9%
    Green - 0 -11.1%
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Nick Sutton ‏@suttonnick · 2 mins
    Friday's Daily Star front page - "Missing jet was heading for USA terror base" #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers pic.twitter.com/6iCfFKhhIQ

    Interesting Headline.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited March 2014
    This is an interesting video showing Ukranian Freedom party MPs assaulting the head of Ukranian TV and forcing him to resign. One was the Deputy Head of the committee for a free press: http://www.euronews.com/2014/03/19/ukranian-tv-boss-assaulted-and-forced-to-resign-by-far-right-svoboda-mps/

    Might give the headbangers a few ideas concerning the BBC.

    Did I just hear Raab say "There is no Mandella in the Ukraine"....WTF is that all about?

    Probably a reference to the undemocratic overthrow of the last government? Or the presence of quasi-Fascists in the new one?
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited March 2014
    This Raab chap is turning into a car crash on QT. Unintentionally goading a teacher about money.....oh, dear.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Scott_P said:

    The Budget response, unfortunately, dramatised the second underlying truth of British politics, which is that Labour remains terminally vulnerable on the economy. Mr Miliband was reduced to recycling his speech because, boxed into a corner, he doesn’t know what else he can say. The speech he gave on Wednesday was the sum total of his errors of strategy.

    The most calamitous error, from which there has never been a clear way back, was not to concede, early and clearly, that Labour had carried on spending long after retrenchment was needed. Refusing to admit any culpability at all gave Mr Osborne the opportunity he relished to pin all the blame on Labour.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4040023.ece

    I'm still not certain Miliband recycled his cliche storm/speech because he was boxed into a corner. I think he just thinks that's what works. Saying out of touch and Eton enough times gets cheers from the base, and that's all he needs with the Tories imploding over the last few years. Add in a few bold announcements on energy firms or the like every now and then to stir things up, and he can probably sleepwalk his way though things the rest of the time. I wish he wouldn't, that he'd put more of an effort it, but I think he's too cautious to do so unless he feels it's necessary, and he's confident enough of a win that he'd rather take the occasional hit for being boring and lazy than risk saying something and looking the fool.

    I suspect it's partly due to being such a political animal, all these SPads spending every moment since their 20s involved in government or high level party politics, so political calculation and assessing every option in terms of maximum advantage vs maximum risk far more coldly than the previous generation is the norm, but it's just a theory, I do not know all these spads personally so cannot say it as fact.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,789
    rcs1000 said:


    The problem with this argument is that consumption account for 60-off percent of economies of almost all developed countries. And no-one is suggesting that US firms have been slow to invest, despite a higher proportion of US GDP being consumption than in the UK.

    I do wonder sometimes if there is something especially moronically sheep-like in the UK consumer which is so addicted to spending that they'll accept things which other more discerning foreign consumers wont.
    rcs1000 said:


    An interesting question: all things being equal cheaper labour will tend to encourage firms to invest in people rather than capital. However, the empirical evidence is rather mixed, not least because most UK manufacturing companies are in the high end of the skill market (Maclaren might benefit from immigration of German engineers, but this is hardly low wage). I think a bigger issue here is the one identified by @Alanbrooke, which is that the banks in the UK have been going through a multi-year process of deleveraging, and this has meant is has been very difficult for smaller firms to get bank financing.

    I seriously doubt that the average economic migrant is employed in manufacturing. Low skilled consumer services seem more likely to me.

    The hand car wash industry is the classic example of a low skilled, low cost industry dependent upon economic migrants.
    rcs1000 said:



    I tend to agree with this - sometimes it's better to have a quick car crash, than a slow moving one. The issue is that allowing unproductive firms to go bust - all at once - as Mrs Thatcher did in the early 1980s, or is happening now in Spain, leads to massive unemployment. Your economy may be fitter on the far side of the transition, but it is an incredibly difficult process.

    It was manufacturing which was hardest hit in both 1980 and 2008.

    But the difference between the two recessions was that UK manufacturing was in a mess, to put it lightly, before 1980 and so the recession cut away mostly 'dead wood' and so improved the sector average whereas before 2008 UK manufacturing had high productivity so that the recession killed or permanently damaged successful businesses.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    This Raab chap is turning into a car crash on QT. Unintentionally goading a teacher about money.....oh, dear.

    If he/she a lefty teacher - good.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:


    Charles

    I have to inform you that you failed your productivity question last week.

    Despite being provided with the data you requested you were unable to produce any worthwhile analysis.

    And your attempts to conceal with using 'big words' merely compounded your failing.


    Sorry have been too busy sorting stuff for some clients. And generating a significant contribution to the balance of payments in the process.

    I barely remember your question and I certainly don't remember my precise answer.

    But the nature of economics is that there is no right or wrong - it's an art not a science.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited March 2014

    This Raab chap is turning into a car crash on QT. Unintentionally goading a teacher about money.....oh, dear.

    If he/she a lefty teacher - good.

    She was complaining about the amount of paperwork they do which leads to a lack of teaching....whether that makes you a lefty or righty...I cannot say. His response was a bit toe curling.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    john_zims said:

    @BobaFett

    'But I also think you will like Ed, when you see him as PM. He is One of Us.'

    Hilarious.

    A millionaire with his property empire,£2.3 million house & £400,000 mortgage..

    To be fair, Sean's response told me he got the joke.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    Burnham is one of the few Labour front benchers who combines clear policy direction and the emotional intelligence required to connect to an audience. I like him.

    I still prefer Liz Kendall though/


    Burnham is toasting them.

    Ave_it said:

    Interesting the desperation in Labour posters on here trying to diss the budget.. We won't really know how its gone down for some time, People need to get to grips with their new options..

    Not sure where you're finding the desperation? I'd say that, sadly, the proportion of people not in the 60-65 age range getting to grips with their pension provision at any one time never exceeds 5%. Most people roll their eyes, shake their heads, and think about something simpler. Not really a political point since it's true under all governments, whether or not they're making large changes.

    Part of the reason, of course, is that they reckon that by the time they get round to retiring, the circumstances will probably be different, so there's just no point in getting interested in new drawdown options etc. when you're, say, 45. I took some Tory stick here for saying that I didn't think most people would feel engaged by it all, but it's still true - even if it shouldn't be.

    Only because labour buggered up the pension system with removal of tax credits and cutting interest rates to pay for handouts for spongers and over spending!
    Welcome back sir :)
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    This Raab chap is turning into a car crash on QT. Unintentionally goading a teacher about money.....oh, dear.

    What an utter moron you are.

    He did not do that at all and if you listened you would realise it. Raab is a future Tory leader"

    You would do better to listen to Kirby lecturing Andy 'Staffordshire' Burnham on how well Gove is doing.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    maaarsh said:

    The times front page bad for Osborne,my God,they build you up to knock you down,even after one day ;-)

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/94929/the_times_friday_21st_march_2014.html

    The IFS line on this is downright bizzare - they seem to be upset that he didn't account for a rounding error in 20 years time. Sadly they feel the need to create a story and justify their existence.
    i do like the guardian front page, though.

    A grainy black photo with a white blob in the middle.

    Helpfully labelled "possible object". No shit, Sherlock.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    "Raab is a future Tory leader" - Oh yes please.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,709

    He did not do that at all and if you listened you would realise it. Raab is a future Tory leader"

    Ah, I see. Thanks. I was wondering why a certain poster was conducting a one-man campaign against Mr Raab on this thread. Mr Raab is clearly a rising Tory star and Labour want to undermine him early. (It's great, isn't it, when you can see through these young activists' tactics as if through glass.)
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Staffs Moorlands is a Con gain from Staffs Ind Group

    Con 175 32.2% - 12.6%
    Lab 132 24.3% + 24.3%
    SIG 119 21.9% -33.4%
    UKIP 105 19.3% + 19.3%
    LDem 13 2.4% + 2.4%
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Carola said:

    BobaFett said:

    Carola said:

    The times front page bad for Osborne,my God,they build you up to knock you down,even after one day ;-)

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/94929/the_times_friday_21st_march_2014.html

    Beer goggles. Morning after.
    That's my fave post of the day @Carola.

    But the question is - would you?
    I'd have to drink enough to get to the *free* pint.
    Ah - Ozzy's nudge theory in action ;)

  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    This Raab chap is turning into a car crash on QT. Unintentionally goading a teacher about money.....oh, dear.

    If he/she a lefty teacher - good.

    She was complaining about the amount of paperwork they do which leads to a lack of teaching....whether that makes you a lefty or righty...I cannot say. His response was a bit toe curling.
    She said she works sixty hours a week but only teaches for twenty, though a schoolchild only has, what, thirty hours a week teaching time at maximum.

    Anyway, she gets thirteen weeks holiday to get over it, though I do agree the hours spent box ticking should stop.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Alastair Campbell and George Galloway have just had a twitter war ,bloody hell,it got deep and nasty ;-)
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    He did not do that at all and if you listened you would realise it. Raab is a future Tory leader"

    Ah, I see. Thanks. I was wondering why a certain poster was conducting a one-man campaign against Mr Raab on this thread. Mr Raab is clearly a rising Tory star and Labour want to undermine him early. (It's great, isn't it, when you can see through these young activists' tactics as if through glass.)
    Not the only one on here who noticed Raabs poor performance, look further down.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Nick Sutton ‏@suttonnick · 2 mins
    Friday's Daily Star front page - "Missing jet was heading for USA terror base" #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers pic.twitter.com/6iCfFKhhIQ

    Interesting Headline.

    I never realised that they had one in Antarctica.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    Charles - Attlee and Wilson all won elections in terms of both the popular vote and seats, and neither were exactly Christian Democrats

    Indeed. But the world has moved on from then.

    The only Labour leader to win a majority since 1974 was atypical. At least the Tories had 2 very different leaders who won majorities and one who got close enough to become PM.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    "Raab is a future Tory leader" - Oh yes please.

    We shall have to see but he seems a rising star to me.

    Have you had time to explain what this phenomenon called 'bedroom tax' is yet? If not when can we expect an explanation so we all have a clearer understanding.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    "Raab is a future Tory leader" - Oh yes please.

    We shall have to see but he seems a rising star to me.

    Have you had time to explain what this phenomenon called 'bedroom tax' is yet? If not when can we expect an explanation so we all have a clearer understanding.
    Someone a bit earlier mentioned something about half a brain and it's easy to find out yourself...who was it again?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    Nick Sutton ‏@suttonnick · 2 mins
    Friday's Daily Star front page - "Missing jet was heading for USA terror base" #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers pic.twitter.com/6iCfFKhhIQ

    Interesting Headline.

    I never realised that they had one in Antarctica.
    Did they mean Diego Garcia?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    Alastair Campbell and George Galloway have just had a twitter war ,bloody hell,it got deep and nasty ;-)

    What were they chatting about?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,709

    He did not do that at all and if you listened you would realise it. Raab is a future Tory leader"

    Ah, I see. Thanks. I was wondering why a certain poster was conducting a one-man campaign against Mr Raab on this thread. Mr Raab is clearly a rising Tory star and Labour want to undermine him early. (It's great, isn't it, when you can see through these young activists' tactics as if through glass.)
    Not the only one on here who noticed Raabs poor performance, look further down.
    It was your 'this Raab chap' that gave the game away, as if you didn't have the slightest clue who he was. Still - you'll know to be more subtle next time. Out of interest, do you people do this stuff on discussion boards through your own initiative, or do you get some sort of directive from HQ? I've always wondered.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    rcs1000 said:

    @surbiton: the current problem is that low interest rate make annuity yields awful. If I had the choice between investing in basket of blue chip shares, yielding more than an annuity, and an annuity, I would be a fool to pick the latter. Indeed, as the income stream from the shares would be expected to grow at a rate faster than inflation, I would be a double winner. One final advantage: when I passed away, I would still own the shares, so my children would get something.

    There is a wonderful opportunity for financial services companies to make variable annuities, which are - say - one half traditional annuity, one half high dividend shares.

    Spot on, on all the points you make.

    Osborne's reforms are a real Thatcherite game-changer, comparable in their significance to Big Bang, Right to Buy, or the end of exchange controls. The full implications will take a long time to sink in, but here are a few pointers:

    1) As you rightly say, financial services companies (yes, I know, I know..) have a great opportunity here. The share prices of some of them fell back, or collapsed, after Osborne's announcement, but that is a mistake. They'll find a way to offer products which are a much better fit to what people actually want and need than conventional level annuities, which are the most inflexible investment known to man.

    2) Even without such products, a basket of 20 good-yielding blue-chip shares (yielding between 4% and 5% dividends, which are very likely to increase over time, and which may also increase in capital terms over 20 years) is a far better bet than a level annuity, yielding initially 5%, and fixed until death, when it's worth zero. It's a no-brainer.

    3) There's a whole raft of implications for care for the elderly. Pension funds could become part of the solution to this hitherto completely intractable problem.
    Spot on.

    Most of my money is in Fundsmith, nothing spectacular but steady stuff, wrap as much as possible in their ISA and away you go.
    Expensive and pedestrian.

    I pay about 0.5% on a blended basis, possibly a little less.

    Trick is to go for index funds (I like Vantage) for your core portfolio to keep the costs down and then pay up for the riskier piece that you want to generate outperformance on.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Nick Sutton ‏@suttonnick · 2 mins
    Friday's Daily Star front page - "Missing jet was heading for USA terror base" #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers pic.twitter.com/6iCfFKhhIQ

    Interesting Headline.

    I never realised that they had one in Antarctica.
    I think the mirror could be on the right lines with what happened.

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/94927/daily_mirror_friday_21st_march_2014.html

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:



    I wouldn't over-estimate regulations. Small businesses in the UK are among the free-est of any in the developed world, and certainly massively less regulated than ones in the US. To put in context, a limited company in the UK is basically only required to fill out about four forms a year for the government - one for corporation tax, and three for Companies House. If you are VAT registered then it's a bit worse - but it's certainly not got any worse since the early 1970s.

    Sorry mate but you've made yourself look a bit silly with that comment.

    I can assure you that all the payroll, environmental, H&S, QA etc requirements amount to much more than they did ten or twenty years ago.
    I have founded a number (at least five) of UK businesses, and I can assure you that there is surprisingly little regulation - at least in the technology sectors that I'm typically involved in.

    Payroll regulations are likely handled by your outsourced payroll provider, which will do everything for you at a cost of a couple of quid per employee per month.

    Environmental regulations for a software company, or anything white collar are pretty much non-existant. Even for the solar battery business I was involved in (which actually made things), there virtually nothing that any responsible employer wouldn't do. (Meeting CE standards is not a major difficulty.)

    Heallth & Safety regulations for most businesses involves sticking a poster on the wall, and making sure you have liability insurance.

    What is QA? And what are the regulations.
    Quality Affairs.

    In lifesciences QA/QC is the bane of my life
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Charles said:

    Expensive and pedestrian.

    I pay about 0.5% on a blended basis, possibly a little less.

    Trick is to go for index funds (I like Vantage) for your core portfolio to keep the costs down and then pay up for the riskier piece that you want to generate outperformance on.

    There is at least one really excellent unit trust out there that charges 0.75% and has a multi-decade long record of outperformance...
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    "Raab is a future Tory leader" - Oh yes please.

    We shall have to see but he seems a rising star to me.

    Have you had time to explain what this phenomenon called 'bedroom tax' is yet? If not when can we expect an explanation so we all have a clearer understanding.
    Someone a bit earlier mentioned something about half a brain and it's easy to find out yourself...who was it again?
    We all know what it is, the removal of a subsidy and not a tax at all. So why do you refer to it as though it is a tax.

    Chris Leslie got slaughtered by Brillo over it, possibly the only person who thinks it is a tax is you"
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    He did not do that at all and if you listened you would realise it. Raab is a future Tory leader"

    Ah, I see. Thanks. I was wondering why a certain poster was conducting a one-man campaign against Mr Raab on this thread. Mr Raab is clearly a rising Tory star and Labour want to undermine him early. (It's great, isn't it, when you can see through these young activists' tactics as if through glass.)
    Not the only one on here who noticed Raabs poor performance, look further down.
    It was your 'this Raab chap' that gave the game away, as if you didn't have the slightest clue who he was. Still - you'll know to be more subtle next time. Out of interest, do you people do this stuff on discussion boards through your own initiative, or do you get some sort of directive from HQ? I've always wondered.
    Ironically, I am currently posting from my HQ.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    "Raab is a future Tory leader" - Oh yes please.

    We shall have to see but he seems a rising star to me.

    Have you had time to explain what this phenomenon called 'bedroom tax' is yet? If not when can we expect an explanation so we all have a clearer understanding.
    Someone a bit earlier mentioned something about half a brain and it's easy to find out yourself...who was it again?
    We all know what it is, the removal of a subsidy and not a tax at all. So why do you refer to it as though it is a tax.

    Chris Leslie got slaughtered by Brillo over it, possibly the only person who thinks it is a tax is you"
    I didn't call it a tax. I quoted a headline from Politicshome which stated "BEDROOM TAX WARNING".Which was a warning from Tory Lord Tebbit about what he calls the "Bedroom Tax". As stated earlier.....don't shoot the messenger. I am sure there is a comment section below his article where you may discuss his description.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Nick Sutton ‏@suttonnick · 2 mins
    Friday's Daily Star front page - "Missing jet was heading for USA terror base" #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers pic.twitter.com/6iCfFKhhIQ

    Interesting Headline.

    I never realised that they had one in Antarctica.
    I think the mirror could be on the right lines with what happened.

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/94927/daily_mirror_friday_21st_march_2014.html

    Helioś 552.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Diego Garcia might make sense if he thought his bod going to jail was a yanqui plot.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,789
    edited March 2014
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:



    I wouldn't over-estimate regulations. Small businesses in the UK are among the free-est of any in the developed world, and certainly massively less regulated than ones in the US. To put in context, a limited company in the UK is basically only required to fill out about four forms a year for the government - one for corporation tax, and three for Companies House. If you are VAT registered then it's a bit worse - but it's certainly not got any worse since the early 1970s.

    Sorry mate but you've made yourself look a bit silly with that comment.

    I can assure you that all the payroll, environmental, H&S, QA etc requirements amount to much more than they did ten or twenty years ago.
    I have founded a number (at least five) of UK businesses, and I can assure you that there is surprisingly little regulation - at least in the technology sectors that I'm typically involved in.

    Payroll regulations are likely handled by your outsourced payroll provider, which will do everything for you at a cost of a couple of quid per employee per month.

    Environmental regulations for a software company, or anything white collar are pretty much non-existant. Even for the solar battery business I was involved in (which actually made things), there virtually nothing that any responsible employer wouldn't do. (Meeting CE standards is not a major difficulty.)

    Heallth & Safety regulations for most businesses involves sticking a poster on the wall, and making sure you have liability insurance.

    What is QA? And what are the regulations.
    We live in different worlds Bob.

    A manufacturing business 'up north' will be dealing with environmental and H&S regulations which very much do exist and grow year on year, with associated costs. They're not likely to have an 'outsourced payroll provider' either.

    But surely you must have heard of QA ? Quality Assurance is one of those business services in which the UK is supposedly a world leader and involves tedious old geezers visiting businesses to look at their paperwork for which they get paid thousands. The businesses in return are able to put a little logo at the bottom of their headed paper informing the world that they reached standard suchandsuch. I am reliably informed that the world, or at least the business, will end if this process isn't continually carried out.

    As I say we live in different worlds and there's nothing wrong with that but I suspect that the experiences of the likes of you and Charles, rather than say those of the likes of Alanbrooke and myself, are taken into account much more by the powers that be.

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Nick Sutton ‏@suttonnick · 2 mins
    Friday's Daily Star front page - "Missing jet was heading for USA terror base" #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers pic.twitter.com/6iCfFKhhIQ

    Interesting Headline.

    I never realised that they had one in Antarctica.
    I think the mirror could be on the right lines with what happened.

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/94927/daily_mirror_friday_21st_march_2014.html

    Mr watcher,do you remember the golfer payne stewart and his death,this is what I thinked happened to the passenger jet.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_South_Dakota_Learjet_crash
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Burnham is toasting them.

    Did you explain to us what this thing called 'bedroom tax' is yet?
    You could try asking an actual kipper or Farage.
    UKIP ‏@UKIP

    UKIP would scrap the bedroom tax. http://m.insidehousing.co.uk/6526959.article?mobilesite=enabled
    It's also self-evidently something obsequious Cameroons hate being called the bedroom tax.

    :)
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    He did not do that at all and if you listened you would realise it. Raab is a future Tory leader"

    Ah, I see. Thanks. I was wondering why a certain poster was conducting a one-man campaign against Mr Raab on this thread. Mr Raab is clearly a rising Tory star and Labour want to undermine him early. (It's great, isn't it, when you can see through these young activists' tactics as if through glass.)
    Not the only one on here who noticed Raabs poor performance, look further down.
    It was your 'this Raab chap' that gave the game away, as if you didn't have the slightest clue who he was. Still - you'll know to be more subtle next time. Out of interest, do you people do this stuff on discussion boards through your own initiative, or do you get some sort of directive from HQ? I've always wondered.
    Ironically, I am currently posting from my HQ.

    Bit rich for all the pitiful CCHQ spinners on here to start whining. No doubt they're still feeling a little bruised and embarrassed after their hero and boss Grant Shapps hilarity.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Mick_Pork said:

    Burnham is toasting them.

    Did you explain to us what this thing called 'bedroom tax' is yet?
    You could try asking an actual kipper or Farage.
    UKIP ‏@UKIP

    UKIP would scrap the bedroom tax. http://m.insidehousing.co.uk/6526959.article?mobilesite=enabled
    It's also self-evidently something obsequious Cameroons hate being called the bedroom tax.

    :)


    George Eaton @georgeeaton

    Important speech by Miliband tomorrow challenging Salmond's race to the bottom on tax - Labour key to saving the Union



  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Mick_Pork said:

    Burnham is toasting them.

    Did you explain to us what this thing called 'bedroom tax' is yet?
    You could try asking an actual kipper or Farage.
    UKIP ‏@UKIP

    UKIP would scrap the bedroom tax. http://m.insidehousing.co.uk/6526959.article?mobilesite=enabled
    It's also self-evidently something obsequious Cameroons hate being called the bedroom tax.

    :)

    George Eaton @georgeeaton

    Important speech by Miliband tomorrow challenging Salmond's race to the bottom on tax - Labour key to saving the Union





    Excellent. The PBDariens ŵill be raging.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Nick Sutton ‏@suttonnick · 2 mins
    Friday's Daily Star front page - "Missing jet was heading for USA terror base" #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers pic.twitter.com/6iCfFKhhIQ

    Interesting Headline.

    I never realised that they had one in Antarctica.
    I think the mirror could be on the right lines with what happened.

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/94927/daily_mirror_friday_21st_march_2014.html

    Helioś 552.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522
    You got there before me - bugger ;-)

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited March 2014

    Mick_Pork said:

    Burnham is toasting them.

    Did you explain to us what this thing called 'bedroom tax' is yet?
    You could try asking an actual kipper or Farage.
    UKIP ‏@UKIP

    UKIP would scrap the bedroom tax. http://m.insidehousing.co.uk/6526959.article?mobilesite=enabled
    It's also self-evidently something obsequious Cameroons hate being called the bedroom tax.

    :)

    George Eaton @georgeeaton

    Important speech by Miliband tomorrow challenging Salmond's race to the bottom on tax - Labour key to saving the Union


    Unlike the PB Tories some of us know all about little Ed's 'firm grip' of SLAB and his amusing efforts to boost scottish labour not too long ago.

    Balls and Miliband to rescue Labour’s Scottish campaign…

    Can Ed Miliband and Ed Balls save Labour in Scotland? The two Labour heavyweights have decided to move in to rescue their party’s disastrous campaign in Scotland — with Balls being sent up north to sharpen his party’s teeth. A desperate measure for a desperate situation: Labour has not only blown a 10-15 point lead over the SNP in just a few weeks, but now languishes some 10-13 percentage points behind. A mammoth, humiliating defeat looms.

    Until now, Labour has liked to portray its campaign for the Holyrood elections as a totally Scottish affair: run in Scotland, organised in Scotland and led by Scottish politicians. Not any more.

    Senior staffers in Ed Miliband’s office started briefing Scottish hacks last night that Miliband is now going to take a much more "hands on" approach to the campaign. Miliband has
    only made one, brief appearance in the campaign so far. But he and Ed Balls are due to be in Scotland this week to push a more strident "anti-independence" message.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2011/04/balls-and-miliband-to-rescue-labours-scottish-campaign/
    Result - SNP Landslide.

    So I'm afraid if you seriously think little Ed is a great asset to SLAB and the No campaign then that would be your problem. Osbrowne and his cheerleaders suffered from the same delusion of course. I would be delighted if Cammie, Osbrowne, Little Ed, Balls and calamity Clegg could spend as much time as possible on the subject.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,789
    Charles said:

    Charles said:


    Charles

    I have to inform you that you failed your productivity question last week.

    Despite being provided with the data you requested you were unable to produce any worthwhile analysis.

    And your attempts to conceal with using 'big words' merely compounded your failing.


    Sorry have been too busy sorting stuff for some clients. And generating a significant contribution to the balance of payments in the process.

    I barely remember your question and I certainly don't remember my precise answer.

    But the nature of economics is that there is no right or wrong - it's an art not a science.
    Charles

    Don't be offended, I only wanted to tease someone and Avery isn't around.

    The productivity issue is something which needs wider discussion.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    Nick Sutton ‏@suttonnick · 2 mins
    Friday's Daily Star front page - "Missing jet was heading for USA terror base" #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers pic.twitter.com/6iCfFKhhIQ

    Interesting Headline.

    I never realised that they had one in Antarctica.
    I think the mirror could be on the right lines with what happened.

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/94927/daily_mirror_friday_21st_march_2014.html

    Helioś 552.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522
    Just read through that. Looks like at least one passenger was still alive and trying to gain control of the plane when it starting falling out of the sky. In a poor irony, he manages to get in the cockpit just a minute or so before one of the engines stops and then gets out a couple of maydays before the second one goes.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    Charles And I should have added Attlee in all his victorious elections and Wilson in half his won in England alone. You could equally state no Tory has won a majority in 22 years, even against Brown!
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Mick_Pork said:

    He did not do that at all and if you listened you would realise it. Raab is a future Tory leader"

    Ah, I see. Thanks. I was wondering why a certain poster was conducting a one-man campaign against Mr Raab on this thread. Mr Raab is clearly a rising Tory star and Labour want to undermine him early. (It's great, isn't it, when you can see through these young activists' tactics as if through glass.)
    Not the only one on here who noticed Raabs poor performance, look further down.
    It was your 'this Raab chap' that gave the game away, as if you didn't have the slightest clue who he was. Still - you'll know to be more subtle next time. Out of interest, do you people do this stuff on discussion boards through your own initiative, or do you get some sort of directive from HQ? I've always wondered.
    Ironically, I am currently posting from my HQ.

    Bit rich for all the pitiful CCHQ spinners on here to start whining. No doubt they're still feeling a little bruised and embarrassed after their hero and boss Grant Shapps hilarity.
    36 hours ago, it was a stellar budget, 24 hours ago #LetThemEatBingo #ToryBingo was a short lasting piss take. Now the right wing press are reporting Shappsgate and two of their most loyal papers are taking pots shots at the budget. No wonder it has been PB Hodges Flounce City on here today. What is your rule about the PB Tories again ;-)
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    NewsdeskUK ‏@NewsdeskUK 3h

    Danny Alexander: 'I thought Grant Shapps' Bingo campaign poster was a spoof' - Evening Standard http://ift.tt/PV8cRC

    No surprise considering all the Osbrowne spinners are self-parodies of out of touch twerps.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Mick_Pork said:

    He did not do that at all and if you listened you would realise it. Raab is a future Tory leader"

    Ah, I see. Thanks. I was wondering why a certain poster was conducting a one-man campaign against Mr Raab on this thread. Mr Raab is clearly a rising Tory star and Labour want to undermine him early. (It's great, isn't it, when you can see through these young activists' tactics as if through glass.)
    Not the only one on here who noticed Raabs poor performance, look further down.
    It was your 'this Raab chap' that gave the game away, as if you didn't have the slightest clue who he was. Still - you'll know to be more subtle next time. Out of interest, do you people do this stuff on discussion boards through your own initiative, or do you get some sort of directive from HQ? I've always wondered.
    Ironically, I am currently posting from my HQ.

    Bit rich for all the pitiful CCHQ spinners on here to start whining. No doubt they're still feeling a little bruised and embarrassed after their hero and boss Grant Shapps hilarity.
    36 hours ago, it was a stellar budget, 24 hours ago #LetThemEatBingo #ToryBingo was a short lasting piss take. Now the right wing press are reporting Shappsgate and two of their most loyal papers are taking pots shots at the budget. No wonder it has been PB Hodges Flounce City on here today. What is your rule about the PB Tories again ;-)
    What do YOU think of the budget? Do you actually have an opinion?
  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/budget2014/article4040021.ece

    Giving workers the freedom to spend their retirement savings as they choose is backed by two thirds of voters, a new poll shows in a big boost for George Osborne.
    The Chancellor’s dramatic announcement in Wednesday’s Budget is supported by 66 per cent in the YouGov survey published today in The Sun. The poll also shows strong backing for his other measures to support savers hit by low interest rates.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Watching the Libdems behaviour over the last 24 hrs, and they still keep making the same mistakes. Every year they stand well back from hot cooker of their own Coalition Government budget with a pair of tongs cherry picking only key Libdem ingredients that they want to be associated with the whole Budget menu. And by doing that, they don't stand by the whole budget as one delivered by a Coalition Government, but more as a back seat passenger who just happened to hitch a lift in the back seat of a Conservative Government. A big mistake, and one I suspect that has also been a factor in their current dire polling.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    FPT, Murali_S

    "London is by far the best place to live in the UK. Period."

    I wouldn't like to live there but it's quite nice being just an hour away by train from the place.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @kjohnw

    'The Chancellor’s dramatic announcement in Wednesday’s Budget is supported by 66 per cent in the YouGov survey published today in The Sun.'

    Explains why Labour want to focus on beer and bingo duty cuts.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    LOL
    Carola said:

    The times front page bad for Osborne,my God,they build you up to knock you down,even after one day ;-)

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/94929/the_times_friday_21st_march_2014.html

    Beer goggles. Morning after.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Nick Sutton ‏@suttonnick · 2 mins
    Friday's Daily Star front page - "Missing jet was heading for USA terror base" #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers pic.twitter.com/6iCfFKhhIQ

    Interesting Headline.

    I never realised that they had one in Antarctica.
    I think the mirror could be on the right lines with what happened.

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/94927/daily_mirror_friday_21st_march_2014.html

    Helioś 552.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522
    Just read through that. Looks like at least one passenger was still alive and trying to gain control of the plane when it starting falling out of the sky. In a poor irony, he manages to get in the cockpit just a minute or so before one of the engines stops and then gets out a couple of maydays before the second one goes.
    The crew had automatic warnings telling them pressurisation was off but bizarrely they ignored them completely. A bit like Air France flight 447, when they ignored about 50 automatic stall warnings.

    In both cases the crew must have simply not believed the warnings.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    We live in different worlds Bob.

    A manufacturing business 'up north' will be dealing with environmental and H&S regulations which very much do exist and grow year on year, with associated costs. They're not likely to have an 'outsourced payroll provider' either.

    But surely you must have heard of QA ? Quality Assurance is one of those business services in which the UK is supposedly a world leader and involves tedious old geezers visiting businesses to look at their paperwork for which they get paid thousands. The businesses in return are able to put a little logo at the bottom of their headed paper informing the world that they reached standard suchandsuch. I am reliably informed that the world, or at least the business, will end if this process isn't continually carried out.

    As I say we live in different worlds and there's nothing wrong with that but I suspect that the experiences of the likes of you and Charles, rather than say those of the likes of Alanbrooke and myself, are taken into account much more by the powers that be.

    I don't know any small business that does its own payroll! Your accountancy firm will almost certainly offer a payroll service. If not, there are tonnes of on-line services that are (a) excellent and (b) very cheap.

    QA is something you chose to to do yourself. You are under no obligation to be ISO 9001 certified or the like. These are regulations companies chose to subscribe to, not ones the government forces on them.

    I may sound like I'm being argumentative, but - outside of financial services - I see very little evidence in any of the businesses I'm involved in of any great regulatory burden whatsoever.

    Please help me: which specific H&S regulations do you believe British businesses are burdened with that might have a substantial effect on productivity and costs?
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    RED ON RED! Daily Mail - Twitter blunder that left Ed lost for words: Miliband's response flopped because he based it on predictions from social networking site

    "Ed Miliband’s Budget response flopped yesterday because he had based it on misleading predictions on Twitter, according to Ed Balls.

    The Shadow Chancellor said Labour’s leader had to tear up large sections of his speech when rumours of what George Osborne would announce in Parliament proved false.

    He said Mr Miliband hastily inserted jibes about Education Secretary Michael Gove’s attack on Etonian influence in Downing Street.

    Mr Miliband was widely criticised for spending 16 minutes reading out political attack lines while barely mentioning the content of the Budget. Mr Balls was similarly derided for his response to the Autumn Statement in December.

    Yesterday he appeared to be revelling in his leader’s misfortune in an astonishing post-Budget briefing for journalists.

    While a stony-faced Miliband aide looked on, he said: ‘Ed Miliband had written pages of his speech which weren’t used in the end, which he thought might be in there that weren’t, but he had to fill the space by going on and on about Michael Gove’s comments.’"


  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2014
    AndyJS said:


    In both cases the crew must have simply not believed the warnings.

    Or not understood them.
    Or been transfixed, and incapable of action.

    The scary thing is, with autopilots and fly-by-wire, pilots are doing less and less actual 'flying'. Aside from the moments of take-off and landing, they are little more than passengers themselves - at best, computer operators on a night shift...

    When systems suddenly break down, they are simply not equipped to regain manual control of the aircraft within the limited time available. Egregious system design errors compound the problem - see AF447...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "The British satellite company, Inmarsat, says it had indications the missing Malaysia airlines flight may have crashed into the Indian Ocean as early as 9 March, two days after the aircraft disappeared."

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/21/mh370-search-for-missing-plane-resumes-at-daybreak-live
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Firstly, Thailand had radar information which it didn't share for a week, and now it turns out Inmarsat had info about the flight two days after it disappeared. I wonder what the next revelation will be.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Indonesia refused US search aircraft overflight rights of its territory.

    What a helpful bunch they all are.
This discussion has been closed.