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Nigel Farage is now the favourite to be the next Prime Minister – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,223
edited December 17 in General
imageNigel Farage is now the favourite to be the next Prime Minister – politicalbetting.com

Yesterday I said there was a chance that Nigel Farage could soon replace Kemi Badenoch as the favourite to be our next Prime Minister and lo and behold it has happened within twenty-four hours.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,065
    Trump Whale becomes the Nige Whale?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,391
    Good morning PB

    How is Storm Darragh treating you?
  • GIN1138 said:

    Good morning PB

    How is Storm Darragh treating you?

    It has led to the Merseyside derby being postponed.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,391

    GIN1138 said:

    Good morning PB

    How is Storm Darragh treating you?

    It has led to the Merseyside derby being postponed.
    What a shame.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724
    All the sport I was going to do this weekend has been cancelled. A day of chores I suppose.
  • Good morning

    All was quiet until about 3.00am when the storm arrived

    Battering the area and the sea looks very rough and dangerous

    Wind speeds of 85+ mph at Aberdaron and 80mph here in Llandudno

    We do have some shelter from this wind direction living by the Little Orme but we are certainly not going out today nor are our neighbours by the looks of it

    Many buildings and trees will be damaged but hopefully everyone is being sensible and staying inside and not putting ar risk rescue services

    Looks like most train services in Wales are at a standstill
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,990

    Good morning

    All was quiet until about 3.00am when the storm arrived

    Battering the area and the sea looks very rough and dangerous

    Wind speeds of 85+ mph at Aberdaron and 80mph here in Llandudno

    We do have some shelter from this wind direction living by the Little Orme but we are certainly not going out today nor are our neighbours by the looks of it

    Many buildings and trees will be damaged but hopefully everyone is being sensible and staying inside and not putting ar risk rescue services

    Looks like most train services in Wales are at a standstill

    Glad the Little Orme offers some shelter.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,960
    GIN1138 said:

    Good morning PB

    How is Storm Darragh treating you?

    For reasons I can't quite fathom there's a man up the telephone pole opposite my house. Presumably addressing something weather-related but it doesn't strike me as the weather for it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,065
    GIN1138 said:

    Good morning PB

    How is Storm Darragh treating you?

    Extremely windy around this bit of North London. Bit of a wind tunnel on our street too.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,485
    MaxPB said:

    Trump Whale becomes the Nige Whale?

    Tricky because the system is so different. A single individual can break through in a presidential system (see Trump, or Macron for centrist balance). Much harder in a parliamentary one. PM Nigel would need 100 or so MPs capable of being ministers.

    But something is clearly going on. Interesting titbit in John Oxley's latest piece

    Indeed, I’ve heard that ahead of May’s elections, they are paying campaign managers roughly double what CCHQ offer.

    https://www.joxleywrites.jmoxley.co.uk/p/fights-on-the-right

    (The whole piece is good on the need for the Conservatives to explain why they shouldn't just lie back and let Reform win on the right.)

    Also- what caused the shift yesterday? Badenoch may be a bit of a difference, but her speech in America wasn't that bad.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,185
    GIN1138 said:

    Good morning PB

    How is Storm Darragh treating you?

    So far it's very windy along the coast, but nothing yet we haven't seen before several times each winter. The container ships full of Chinese Amazon crap are still sitting out there, waiting for a berth at Southampton, and the island ferries are running.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,355
    No, I don't think Nigel is a 25% chance to be next PM.

    We are in the midst of a Western European style realignment in voter loyalties at GEs, with a more coherent left / left-green bloc and a new right and I don't expect that to dissipate, but it needs more for Nigel to go over the top.

    1. Martin Baxter - Reform have to kick on a way beyond where they are now to be even the second largest party.

    2. Youth quake: The most successful European new right have a broad based youth quake on their side. Nigel has made no progress with young women and the legacy and association of Brexit will remain a bit of a drag anchor even among amti-woke but qualified men.

    3. Reform / Competence: Most successful new right parties have had some sort of renewal. Nigel is unreformed and leads a rabble who are likely to squabble and fall out, and he is not the owner of a brand like the GOP. NR in France strain to show they have changed, FdI usurped Lega as the principle party of the new right by a judicious mix of new populism whilst claiming their heredity to the steady, serious mantle that AN had built over the years. (I've said before, if the Tories do tack right, they should also strain to re-claim an old fashioned Tory competence mantle, learning hard from the FdI, and contrasting themselves with the Reform
    circus).
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,112
    Looks like the South Korean impeachment of the President will fall short...
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,904
    GIN1138 said:

    Good morning PB

    How is Storm Darragh treating you?

    Very wet and gusty drive to Oxford, held on tight to the steering wheel. Now got the drive home with daughter and all her stuff!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,185
    Pro_Rata said:

    No, I don't think Nigel is a 25% chance to be next PM.

    We are in the midst of a Western European style realignment in voter loyalties at GEs, with a more coherent left / left-green bloc and a new right and I don't expect that to dissipate, but it needs more for Nigel to go over the top.

    1. Martin Baxter - Reform have to kick on a way beyond where they are now to be even the second largest party.

    2. Youth quake: The most successful European new right have a broad based youth quake on their side. Nigel has made no progress with young women and the legacy and association of Brexit will remain a bit of a drag anchor even among amti-woke but qualified men.

    3. Reform / Competence: Most successful new right parties have had some sort of renewal. Nigel is unreformed and leads a rabble who are likely to squabble and fall out, and he is not the owner of a brand like the GOP. NR in France strain to show they have changed, FdI usurped Lega as the principle party of the new right by a judicious mix of new populism whilst claiming their heredity to the steady, serious mantle that AN had built over the years. (I've said before, if the Tories do tack right, they should also strain to re-claim an old fashioned Tory competence mantle, learning hard from the FdI, and contrasting themselves with the Reform
    circus).

    European politics became much more fluid once voters' tribal loyalties with the old parties - which on the postwar continent was typically very strong - was broken. Such as happened in Italy, for example, after tangentopoli.

    So far the decline in support for the old two parties in the UK has been gradual, rather than sudden, as they're both shored up by our voting system.

    It's quite possible that the election just gone mght in retrospect become seen as a further big step toward the breakup of the two party monopoly; disguised because the voting system turned Labour's relatively low third share of the vote into two thirds of the seats.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,153
    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,185

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Then even less likely that Farage or Badenoch are next PM, and they both remain screaming lays
  • MaxPB said:

    Trump Whale becomes the Nige Whale?

    Tricky because the system is so different. A single individual can break through in a presidential system (see Trump, or Macron for centrist balance). Much harder in a parliamentary one. PM Nigel would need 100 or so MPs capable of being ministers.

    But something is clearly going on. Interesting titbit in John Oxley's latest piece

    Indeed, I’ve heard that ahead of May’s elections, they are paying campaign managers roughly double what CCHQ offer.

    https://www.joxleywrites.jmoxley.co.uk/p/fights-on-the-right

    (The whole piece is good on the need for the Conservatives to explain why they shouldn't just lie back and let Reform win on the right.)

    Also- what caused the shift yesterday? Badenoch may be a bit of a difference, but her speech in America wasn't that bad.
    For the record he would need hundreds of MPs capable of getting elected.

    Whether those MPs are capable of being ministers or not is very much a secondary concern.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,951
    IanB2 said:

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Then even less likely that Farage or Badenoch are next PM, and they both remain screaming lays
    Why? A new leader isn't going to turn things around. They might be less of a toe curling embarrassment, but the damage is largely done.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 292

    Good morning

    All was quiet until about 3.00am when the storm arrived

    Battering the area and the sea looks very rough and dangerous

    Wind speeds of 85+ mph at Aberdaron and 80mph here in Llandudno

    We do have some shelter from this wind direction living by the Little Orme but we are certainly not going out today nor are our neighbours by the looks of it

    Many buildings and trees will be damaged but hopefully everyone is being sensible and staying inside and not putting ar risk rescue services

    Looks like most train services in Wales are at a standstill

    Some lovely properties up by The Little Orme over the road from the sea-front

    Always loved going up the hill round the corner and in to Rhos-On- Sea as a kid...

    Great memories

    Stay safe!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,063
    Good luck to everyone affected by the storm last night, hope people and property are all still intact this morning.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,975

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Well in a speech in America Kemi was tacitly calling for Starmer's head because of his vicious racial attack on her.during his Pinewood snoozefest. (The MacDonalds vicious racial attack).
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,485

    IanB2 said:

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Then even less likely that Farage or Badenoch are next PM, and they both remain screaming lays
    Why? A new leader isn't going to turn things around. They might be less of a toe curling embarrassment, but the damage is largely done.
    But whoever gets that poisoned chalice would be the next PM, by definition. Game over for that bet.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,962

    IanB2 said:

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Then even less likely that Farage or Badenoch are next PM, and they both remain screaming lays
    Why? A new leader isn't going to turn things around. They might be less of a toe curling embarrassment, but the damage is largely done.
    The bet is next Prime Minister, not Prime Minister after the next election. Thus, if Starmer does not stay to contest the next election, the next Prime Minister will be a Labour MP.

    I'd agree that the value in this market is on the Labour MPs.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 292
    I'd gladly have a bet now that Starmer will be PM and Labour leader long after Nigel the bandwagon has fecked off the his paymasters in the USA or he may even turn up at a Dacha in Russia. Chased by Tommy R and Andrew T who see him as having ruined the chances of the Far Right Stormtroopers taking over the UK.

    Reform may be able to charge 5000 boneheads a tenner to enjoy the nostalgia of a "Nuremberg Style Rally" and £5 a pop to join 100,000 other bone heads allegedly....

    The funs stops for them though at the point they have

    No formal structure
    Internecine warfare between Habid and Farage and with Lowe getting increasingly restless
    Money does NOT but elections in the UK
    UK voters do not want and will not vote to become the 51st state
    They won't vote for 3 day a week Kemi, definitely not for 2 days a week Nigel.

    The beer swilling cigarette puffing chosen one may well be dead of heart / lung / liver damage soon anyway!....god forbid he gets in any more planes flying banners.

    I do confidently predict a TRUMP style staged assasination attempt on him though around Easter time...just in time for the May elections - but of course FACTS show that since July 4th 2024 they have won precisely how many Council seats??..

    Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,990
    Ms. (Mr?) 88, "Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception."

    In that case, you must be able to offer some value tips contrary to the markets. Any tips you'd care to suggest?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,710
    edited December 7

    I'd gladly have a bet now that Starmer will be PM and Labour leader long after Nigel the bandwagon has fecked off the his paymasters in the USA or he may even turn up at a Dacha in Russia. Chased by Tommy R and Andrew T who see him as having ruined the chances of the Far Right Stormtroopers taking over the UK.

    Reform may be able to charge 5000 boneheads a tenner to enjoy the nostalgia of a "Nuremberg Style Rally" and £5 a pop to join 100,000 other bone heads allegedly....

    The funs stops for them though at the point they have

    No formal structure
    Internecine warfare between Habid and Farage and with Lowe getting increasingly restless
    Money does NOT but elections in the UK
    UK voters do not want and will not vote to become the 51st state
    They won't vote for 3 day a week Kemi, definitely not for 2 days a week Nigel.

    The beer swilling cigarette puffing chosen one may well be dead of heart / lung / liver damage soon anyway!....god forbid he gets in any more planes flying banners.

    I do confidently predict a TRUMP style staged assasination attempt on him though around Easter time...just in time for the May elections - but of course FACTS show that since July 4th 2024 they have won precisely how many Council seats??..

    Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception.

    I have no expectation that Farage will become PM but predicting an assassination attempt is a step too far in your post

    And they have won 5 seats but look away if you support labour

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1864827343958630848?t=OhJYn3PzCHjgvSkf_zcqNg&s=19
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,777
    Dura_Ace said:

    I guess the sequence of events looks like this...

    1. My Kemical Romance proves to be as dreadful as first impressions would suggest leading to the tory polling being in the karsi.

    2. Starmer becomes a bit less shit and starts doing things, leading to further tory woes.

    3. Propelled by Musk's money and GRU social media expertise the Fukkers start to poll ahead of Labour.

    4. The tory defections start.

    5. Whatever's left of the tory party realise the end is nigh and enter an electoral pact with the Fukkers in which they are the junior party.

    6. The Fukkers and their tory underlings win the GE with a MEGA campaign (the hats are blue). Farage is PM. Rejoice at that news. Free Benson & Hedges for the under 14s. Jaguar start making the E-Type again. The ECHR is nothing but a sallow memory.

    That's not impossible and would be wildly entertaining, but it's not a 25% chance.

    He lives.

    We were all worried about you, not that you'd give a shit, of course, but we were.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,550
    What is the route for Sir Ed Davey to be our next PM?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,990
    F1: Lowdon to be Cadillac team principal:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/articles/cx2673xvvy2o

    A while ago now, but I thought he came across well when he ran Manor.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,962
    Labour have had such a bad start to government, and the Tories were so comprehensively trashed at the last election, that it's natural people will look for another option to do well and become PM. And Ed Davey isn't exactly setting any pulses racing.

    However, the voters gave Labour a landslide majority, despite their misgivings about Labour and Starmer, because FPTP meant that they were the available instrument for ejecting an incumbent Tory government. The same applies in reverse. If the voters decide at GE2029 that the overriding imperative is to eject the incumbent government, then that is mainly going to mean voting Tory to make that happen.

    We can already see that to some extent in the polls and the local by-elections. The scenario that most likely leads to a Reform PM is one where the Labour government is re-elected in 2028, and Reform positions itself as the principal opposition for the election after that.

    There are, of course, scenarios which would yield a Reform PM earlier than that, involving a split in the Tories, large-scale defections to Reform, etc, but I wouldn't rate any of that as being the most likely single scenario.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,486
    edited December 7
    Tres said:

    All the sport I was going to do this weekend has been cancelled. A day of chores I suppose.

    Yes, I was going to pop out for my normal 5k run, but I'll just have to listen to the cricket instead,
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,975

    IanB2 said:

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Then even less likely that Farage or Badenoch are next PM, and they both remain screaming lays
    Why? A new leader isn't going to turn things around. They might be less of a toe curling embarrassment, but the damage is largely done.
    You could be right, but with five and a half years to go I suspect that is a bold claim. According to the PB Tory faithful they were forgiven a month out of office.

    I suspect however that Trump crashes the World economy and incumbents everywhere will pay. Ironically that shoos Trump fanbois Nigel into No 10. Although I could be wrong and of course net beneficiaries of the Trump boom will be incumbents around the World. Is that a squadron of pigs I see flying through the gale force winds?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,545
    FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT....

    The #NobelPrize in Physics 2024 for Hopfield & Hinton turns out to be a Nobel Prize for plagiarism. They republished methodologies developed in #Ukraine and #Japan by Ivakhnenko and Amari in the 1960s & 1970s, as well as other techniques, without citing the original inventors. None of the important algorithms for modern AI were created by Hopfield & Hinton.

    Today I am releasing a detailed tech report on this [NOB]: https://people.idsia.ch/~juergen/physics-nobel-2024-plagiarism.html

    https://x.com/SchmidhuberAI/status/1865310820856393929
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,485

    Ms. (Mr?) 88, "Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception."

    In that case, you must be able to offer some value tips contrary to the markets. Any tips you'd care to suggest?

    SOP for this sort of thing would be to lay the favourite. Though given the time to payout, sticking it in the Post Office might work as well.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,185

    IanB2 said:

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Then even less likely that Farage or Badenoch are next PM, and they both remain screaming lays
    Why? A new leader isn't going to turn things around. They might be less of a toe curling embarrassment, but the damage is largely done.
    Because that new leader will be the next PM
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,924

    IanB2 said:

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Then even less likely that Farage or Badenoch are next PM, and they both remain screaming lays
    Why? A new leader isn't going to turn things around. They might be less of a toe curling embarrassment, but the damage is largely done.
    The bet is next Prime Minister, not Prime Minister after the next election. Thus, if Starmer does not stay to contest the next election, the next Prime Minister will be a Labour MP.

    I'd agree that the value in this market is on the Labour MPs.
    I find it amusing that nobody has even bothered to have Ed Davey listed.

    Farage is clearly much too short, and I've bet accordingly. The long-term nature of the bet and the fact that even the dullest of banks pay you something now on your savings rather constrains my stake though. (Hats off to Farage fans if they've realised this and hence pushed their man into the limelight quite cheaply)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,951

    IanB2 said:

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Then even less likely that Farage or Badenoch are next PM, and they both remain screaming lays
    Why? A new leader isn't going to turn things around. They might be less of a toe curling embarrassment, but the damage is largely done.
    But whoever gets that poisoned chalice would be the next PM, by definition. Game over for that bet.
    Of course - apologies, too early!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,485

    IanB2 said:

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Then even less likely that Farage or Badenoch are next PM, and they both remain screaming lays
    Why? A new leader isn't going to turn things around. They might be less of a toe curling embarrassment, but the damage is largely done.
    The bet is next Prime Minister, not Prime Minister after the next election. Thus, if Starmer does not stay to contest the next election, the next Prime Minister will be a Labour MP.

    I'd agree that the value in this market is on the Labour MPs.
    Three main scenarios from here:

    A. Labour continue to struggle, and push Starmer overboard before GE2029. Next PM is red.

    B. Starmer stays on and loses in 2029. Next PM isn't red.

    C. Starmer wins in 2028/9 and retires to muted appreciation a couple of years after that. Next PM is red.

    I know Labour don't ditch leaders like the Conservatives do, but B doesn't seem that likely. (And the numbers sort of reflect that. Nigel or Kemi combined is under 50% chance, even with the mug punters boost.)
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,804

    Dura_Ace said:

    I guess the sequence of events looks like this...

    1. My Kemical Romance proves to be as dreadful as first impressions would suggest leading to the tory polling being in the karsi.

    2. Starmer becomes a bit less shit and starts doing things, leading to further tory woes.

    3. Propelled by Musk's money and GRU social media expertise the Fukkers start to poll ahead of Labour.

    4. The tory defections start.

    5. Whatever's left of the tory party realise the end is nigh and enter an electoral pact with the Fukkers in which they are the junior party.

    6. The Fukkers and their tory underlings win the GE with a MEGA campaign (the hats are blue). Farage is PM. Rejoice at that news. Free Benson & Hedges for the under 14s. Jaguar start making the E-Type again. The ECHR is nothing but a sallow memory.

    That's not impossible and would be wildly entertaining, but it's not a 25% chance.

    He lives.

    We were all worried about you, not that you'd give a shit, of course, but we were.
    Been in Jeddah doing Arabic immersion. Never got to meet @jeddah_racing.
  • Morning Pb'ers.

    Iran apparently seeming to test a medium-range ballistic missile today, reminds me of Putin. Don't like the look of it
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,864

    IanB2 said:

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Then even less likely that Farage or Badenoch are next PM, and they both remain screaming lays
    Why? A new leader isn't going to turn things around. They might be less of a toe curling embarrassment, but the damage is largely done.
    The bet is next Prime Minister, not Prime Minister after the next election. Thus, if Starmer does not stay to contest the next election, the next Prime Minister will be a Labour MP.

    I'd agree that the value in this market is on the Labour MPs.
    Three main scenarios from here:

    A. Labour continue to struggle, and push Starmer overboard before GE2029. Next PM is red.

    B. Starmer stays on and loses in 2029. Next PM isn't red.

    C. Starmer wins in 2028/9 and retires to muted appreciation a couple of years after that. Next PM is red.

    I know Labour don't ditch leaders like the Conservatives do
    That's putting it mildly. The last Labour party leader to be forcibly removed by the party against his will was George Lansbury in 1935. Who was (a) only elected because there was literally nobody else (b) 76 years old and (c) had fallen out with the trade union movement.

    Starmer might qualify under the first one, I suppose, but since Lansbury hadn't won a stonking majority he didn't have any sort of democratic mandate.

    Since 1935, we've had Chamberlain, Home, Heath, Thatcher, Duncan Smith, May, Johnson, Truss removed by anti-leader revolts in the PCP. That's not even including the ones who didn't contest the issue (Cameron, Hague, Major) and ones who found health related excuses (Churchill, Eden, Macmillan).
  • Missing full stop should be there, ofcourse.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,975

    IanB2 said:

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Then even less likely that Farage or Badenoch are next PM, and they both remain screaming lays
    Why? A new leader isn't going to turn things around. They might be less of a toe curling embarrassment, but the damage is largely done.
    You could be right, but with five and a half years to go I suspect that is a bold claim. According to the PB Tory faithful they were forgiven a month out of office.

    I suspect however that Trump crashes the World economy and incumbents everywhere will pay. Ironically that shoos Trump fanbois Nigel into No 10. Although I could be wrong and of course net beneficiaries of the Trump boom will be incumbents around the World. Is that a squadron of pigs I see flying through the gale force winds?
    Four and a half.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    I see the South Korean ruling party have decided that attempted self coups and imposing martial law are totally fine and that impeaching the person who did it is a step too far (he's said he would not do it again guys, why the hassle?). You'd think at least a handful of people would think their jobs are not worth supporting that kind of crap, but apparently not.

    Not sure which would be worse - whether they think there would be electoral disadvantage to impeaching the president in that situation, or whether they would be right to to think that.
  • Ms. (Mr?) 88, "Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception."

    In that case, you must be able to offer some value tips contrary to the markets. Any tips you'd care to suggest?

    Isn't that precisely the raison d'etre of this site?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,975
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I guess the sequence of events looks like this...

    1. My Kemical Romance proves to be as dreadful as first impressions would suggest leading to the tory polling being in the karsi.

    2. Starmer becomes a bit less shit and starts doing things, leading to further tory woes.

    3. Propelled by Musk's money and GRU social media expertise the Fukkers start to poll ahead of Labour.

    4. The tory defections start.

    5. Whatever's left of the tory party realise the end is nigh and enter an electoral pact with the Fukkers in which they are the junior party.

    6. The Fukkers and their tory underlings win the GE with a MEGA campaign (the hats are blue). Farage is PM. Rejoice at that news. Free Benson & Hedges for the under 14s. Jaguar start making the E-Type again. The ECHR is nothing but a sallow memory.

    That's not impossible and would be wildly entertaining, but it's not a 25% chance.

    He lives.

    We were all worried about you, not that you'd give a shit, of course, but we were.
    Been in Jeddah doing Arabic immersion. Never got to meet @jeddah_racing.
    Is there much opportunity for saving sandblasted abandoned supercars?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,962
    edited December 7

    IanB2 said:

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Then even less likely that Farage or Badenoch are next PM, and they both remain screaming lays
    Why? A new leader isn't going to turn things around. They might be less of a toe curling embarrassment, but the damage is largely done.
    The bet is next Prime Minister, not Prime Minister after the next election. Thus, if Starmer does not stay to contest the next election, the next Prime Minister will be a Labour MP.

    I'd agree that the value in this market is on the Labour MPs.
    Three main scenarios from here:

    A. Labour continue to struggle, and push Starmer overboard before GE2029. Next PM is red.

    B. Starmer stays on and loses in 2029. Next PM isn't red.

    C. Starmer wins in 2028/9 and retires to muted appreciation a couple of years after that. Next PM is red.

    I know Labour don't ditch leaders like the Conservatives do, but B doesn't seem that likely. (And the numbers sort of reflect that. Nigel or Kemi combined is under 50% chance, even with the mug punters boost.)
    Looking at the odds on oddschecker there seem to be a lot of short-odds contenders that can be fairly easily ruled out, or at least should be much longer odds. I think that people like Bridget Phillipson, or Darren Jones are pretty good value as ministers who are left standing after such a process of elimination.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597

    What is the route for Sir Ed Davey to be our next PM?

    I'd say a designated survivor type situation, except under our system that would probably still not be true as the King could appoint anyone.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 292

    I'd gladly have a bet now that Starmer will be PM and Labour leader long after Nigel the bandwagon has fecked off the his paymasters in the USA or he may even turn up at a Dacha in Russia. Chased by Tommy R and Andrew T who see him as having ruined the chances of the Far Right Stormtroopers taking over the UK.

    Reform may be able to charge 5000 boneheads a tenner to enjoy the nostalgia of a "Nuremberg Style Rally" and £5 a pop to join 100,000 other bone heads allegedly....

    The funs stops for them though at the point they have

    No formal structure
    Internecine warfare between Habid and Farage and with Lowe getting increasingly restless
    Money does NOT but elections in the UK
    UK voters do not want and will not vote to become the 51st state
    They won't vote for 3 day a week Kemi, definitely not for 2 days a week Nigel.

    The beer swilling cigarette puffing chosen one may well be dead of heart / lung / liver damage soon anyway!....god forbid he gets in any more planes flying banners.

    I do confidently predict a TRUMP style staged assasination attempt on him though around Easter time...just in time for the May elections - but of course FACTS show that since July 4th 2024 they have won precisely how many Council seats??..

    Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception.

    I have no expectation that Farage will become PM but predicting an assassination attempt is a step too far in your post

    And they have won 5 seats but look away if you support labour

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1864827343958630848?t=OhJYn3PzCHjgvSkf_zcqNg&s=19
    I'm not predicting an assassination.. Let's be 100% clear.

    I am predicting a staged attempt... Very Trump like.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,962
    kle4 said:

    What is the route for Sir Ed Davey to be our next PM?

    I'd say a designated survivor type situation, except under our system that would probably still not be true as the King could appoint anyone.
    Ed Davey has been a cabinet minister, and so he is a member of the Privy Council, has executive experience, and is an MP. In a disaster scenario the King could do a lot worse.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,864

    kle4 said:

    What is the route for Sir Ed Davey to be our next PM?

    I'd say a designated survivor type situation, except under our system that would probably still not be true as the King could appoint anyone.
    Ed Davey has been a cabinet minister, and so he is a member of the Privy Council, has executive experience, and is an MP. In a disaster scenario the King could do a lot worse.
    He could ask Farage, for a start.

    But I'm assuming your scenario is where the hallucinogenics might play a role?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    edited December 7

    kle4 said:

    What is the route for Sir Ed Davey to be our next PM?

    I'd say a designated survivor type situation, except under our system that would probably still not be true as the King could appoint anyone.
    Ed Davey has been a cabinet minister, and so he is a member of the Privy Council, has executive experience, and is an MP. In a disaster scenario the King could do a lot worse.
    That is true, but they'd still probably go for a former PM from a big two party. Whilst His Majesty might be ok with a LD taking the reins not sure the main parties would agree.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,962
    edited December 7

    I'd gladly have a bet now that Starmer will be PM and Labour leader long after Nigel the bandwagon has fecked off the his paymasters in the USA or he may even turn up at a Dacha in Russia. Chased by Tommy R and Andrew T who see him as having ruined the chances of the Far Right Stormtroopers taking over the UK.

    Reform may be able to charge 5000 boneheads a tenner to enjoy the nostalgia of a "Nuremberg Style Rally" and £5 a pop to join 100,000 other bone heads allegedly....

    The funs stops for them though at the point they have

    No formal structure
    Internecine warfare between Habid and Farage and with Lowe getting increasingly restless
    Money does NOT but elections in the UK
    UK voters do not want and will not vote to become the 51st state
    They won't vote for 3 day a week Kemi, definitely not for 2 days a week Nigel.

    The beer swilling cigarette puffing chosen one may well be dead of heart / lung / liver damage soon anyway!....god forbid he gets in any more planes flying banners.

    I do confidently predict a TRUMP style staged assasination attempt on him though around Easter time...just in time for the May elections - but of course FACTS show that since July 4th 2024 they have won precisely how many Council seats??..

    Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception.

    I have no expectation that Farage will become PM but predicting an assassination attempt is a step too far in your post

    And they have won 5 seats but look away if you support labour

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1864827343958630848?t=OhJYn3PzCHjgvSkf_zcqNg&s=19
    I'm not predicting an assassination.. Let's be 100% clear.

    I am predicting a staged attempt... Very Trump like.
    You're not seriously suggesting that the gunman who was killed by the secret service in Pennsylvania after attempting to assassinate Trump was only pretending to assassinate him. You cannot be seriously suggesting that someone would give their life for a staged assassination attempt. We both know that would be a completely deranged thing to say, and even if you were mad enough to think it, you would surely be able to see how it would damage your credibility to suggest such a thing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597

    I'd gladly have a bet now that Starmer will be PM and Labour leader long after Nigel the bandwagon has fecked off the his paymasters in the USA or he may even turn up at a Dacha in Russia. Chased by Tommy R and Andrew T who see him as having ruined the chances of the Far Right Stormtroopers taking over the UK.

    Reform may be able to charge 5000 boneheads a tenner to enjoy the nostalgia of a "Nuremberg Style Rally" and £5 a pop to join 100,000 other bone heads allegedly....

    The funs stops for them though at the point they have

    No formal structure
    Internecine warfare between Habid and Farage and with Lowe getting increasingly restless
    Money does NOT but elections in the UK
    UK voters do not want and will not vote to become the 51st state
    They won't vote for 3 day a week Kemi, definitely not for 2 days a week Nigel.

    The beer swilling cigarette puffing chosen one may well be dead of heart / lung / liver damage soon anyway!....god forbid he gets in any more planes flying banners.

    I do confidently predict a TRUMP style staged assasination attempt on him though around Easter time...just in time for the May elections - but of course FACTS show that since July 4th 2024 they have won precisely how many Council seats??..

    Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception.


    And they have won 5 seats but look away if you support labour

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1864827343958630848?t=OhJYn3PzCHjgvSkf_zcqNg&s=19
    Tories will be much happier going in to the 2025 locals - it would always likely have been better than the last few years of course, but Labour could have been having a bit of a honeymoon, and even though Labour are not the main opponents in many areas up for election a Tory recovery and holding on looks like a decent prospect now, even depending on whether Reform make a big splash.
  • IanB2 said:

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Then even less likely that Farage or Badenoch are next PM, and they both remain screaming lays
    Why? A new leader isn't going to turn things around. They might be less of a toe curling embarrassment, but the damage is largely done.
    A new leader doesn't need to turn things around to make any non-Labour "next PM" bets losing, since the new leader is by definition the next PM and everyone else by definition is not.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,804

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I guess the sequence of events looks like this...

    1. My Kemical Romance proves to be as dreadful as first impressions would suggest leading to the tory polling being in the karsi.

    2. Starmer becomes a bit less shit and starts doing things, leading to further tory woes.

    3. Propelled by Musk's money and GRU social media expertise the Fukkers start to poll ahead of Labour.

    4. The tory defections start.

    5. Whatever's left of the tory party realise the end is nigh and enter an electoral pact with the Fukkers in which they are the junior party.

    6. The Fukkers and their tory underlings win the GE with a MEGA campaign (the hats are blue). Farage is PM. Rejoice at that news. Free Benson & Hedges for the under 14s. Jaguar start making the E-Type again. The ECHR is nothing but a sallow memory.

    That's not impossible and would be wildly entertaining, but it's not a 25% chance.

    He lives.

    We were all worried about you, not that you'd give a shit, of course, but we were.
    Been in Jeddah doing Arabic immersion. Never got to meet @jeddah_racing.
    Is there much opportunity for saving sandblasted abandoned supercars?
    Yes, although, not so much abandoned as being sold by people who don't really understand where the market is at and just post their shit using a random number generator to arrive at the asking price. I could have had a very nice black 458 Speciale for crack money but LHD... I did buy loads of 996/997 parts very cheap from a breaker. The black 997 GT3 interior I bought has some c-nt's brains all over it (literally skull fragments) and I had to remove it all from the wrecked shell on a 35 deg day. LOL.

    One of my fellow students had a Veyron so that was sick. We did 300km/h in it through the desert at 2am. It felt like it was just getting started at that speed. If only it didn't look like an upturned bath.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,975

    I'd gladly have a bet now that Starmer will be PM and Labour leader long after Nigel the bandwagon has fecked off the his paymasters in the USA or he may even turn up at a Dacha in Russia. Chased by Tommy R and Andrew T who see him as having ruined the chances of the Far Right Stormtroopers taking over the UK.

    Reform may be able to charge 5000 boneheads a tenner to enjoy the nostalgia of a "Nuremberg Style Rally" and £5 a pop to join 100,000 other bone heads allegedly....

    The funs stops for them though at the point they have

    No formal structure
    Internecine warfare between Habid and Farage and with Lowe getting increasingly restless
    Money does NOT but elections in the UK
    UK voters do not want and will not vote to become the 51st state
    They won't vote for 3 day a week Kemi, definitely not for 2 days a week Nigel.

    The beer swilling cigarette puffing chosen one may well be dead of heart / lung / liver damage soon anyway!....god forbid he gets in any more planes flying banners.

    I do confidently predict a TRUMP style staged assasination attempt on him though around Easter time...just in time for the May elections - but of course FACTS show that since July 4th 2024 they have won precisely how many Council seats??..

    Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception.

    I have no expectation that Farage will become PM but predicting an assassination attempt is a step too far in your post

    And they have won 5 seats but look away if you support labour

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1864827343958630848?t=OhJYn3PzCHjgvSkf_zcqNg&s=19
    I'm not predicting an assassination.. Let's be 100% clear.

    I am predicting a staged attempt... Very Trump like.
    Despite his personal Trump-like celebrity Nigel needs the Conservative Party. A reverse takeover or an acquisition of the name after enough Tories jump ship are the options.

    There are plenty on here who would be persuaded to vote Tory if Putin moved to St George's Hill and became leader of Surrey Conservatives.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,010
    Good morning everyone.

    Elon Musk ... hammer of the something something something. :smile:

    "Elon Musk @elonmusk
    Defund the ACLU"

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864310957973098571

    Good luck with that one ...

    (Aside: Is he a Dr Who fan? There's a Delete Delete Delete meme.)
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,804
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Elon Musk ... hammer of the something something something. :smile:

    "Elon Musk @elonmusk
    Defund the ACLU"

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864310957973098571

    Good luck with that one ...

    (Aside: Is he a Dr Who fan? There's a Delete Delete Delete meme.)

    I hope the revolutionary hero with the stylish backpack who slotted the United Healthcare twat does Musk next.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,864

    I'd gladly have a bet now that Starmer will be PM and Labour leader long after Nigel the bandwagon has fecked off the his paymasters in the USA or he may even turn up at a Dacha in Russia. Chased by Tommy R and Andrew T who see him as having ruined the chances of the Far Right Stormtroopers taking over the UK.

    Reform may be able to charge 5000 boneheads a tenner to enjoy the nostalgia of a "Nuremberg Style Rally" and £5 a pop to join 100,000 other bone heads allegedly....

    The funs stops for them though at the point they have

    No formal structure
    Internecine warfare between Habid and Farage and with Lowe getting increasingly restless
    Money does NOT but elections in the UK
    UK voters do not want and will not vote to become the 51st state
    They won't vote for 3 day a week Kemi, definitely not for 2 days a week Nigel.

    The beer swilling cigarette puffing chosen one may well be dead of heart / lung / liver damage soon anyway!....god forbid he gets in any more planes flying banners.

    I do confidently predict a TRUMP style staged assasination attempt on him though around Easter time...just in time for the May elections - but of course FACTS show that since July 4th 2024 they have won precisely how many Council seats??..

    Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception.

    I have no expectation that Farage will become PM but predicting an assassination attempt is a step too far in your post

    And they have won 5 seats but look away if you support labour

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1864827343958630848?t=OhJYn3PzCHjgvSkf_zcqNg&s=19
    I'm not predicting an assassination.. Let's be 100% clear.

    I am predicting a staged attempt... Very Trump like.
    Despite his personal Trump-like celebrity Nigel needs the Conservative Party. A reverse takeover or an acquisition of the name after enough Tories jump ship are the options.

    There are plenty on here who would be persuaded to vote Tory if Putin moved to St George's Hill and became leader of Surrey Conservatives.
    Although I'm sure Hyufd would insist on Putin making an honest woman of Alina Kabaeva first.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,864
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Elon Musk ... hammer of the something something something. :smile:

    "Elon Musk @elonmusk
    Defund the ACLU"

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1864310957973098571

    Good luck with that one ...

    (Aside: Is he a Dr Who fan? There's a Delete Delete Delete meme.)

    He's an incyberman.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,276

    kle4 said:

    What is the route for Sir Ed Davey to be our next PM?

    I'd say a designated survivor type situation, except under our system that would probably still not be true as the King could appoint anyone.
    Ed Davey has been a cabinet minister, and so he is a member of the Privy Council, has executive experience, and is an MP. In a disaster scenario the King could do a lot worse.
    It would be a break from convention for the incoming PM to arrive at Buckingham Palace by jet pack.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,276
    Next PM: Bridget Phillipson

    Meanwhile, barely a breath of wind here in Airedale at the moment. But we are due to get a bit clobbered later and overnight by the looks of it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,246

    IanB2 said:

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Then even less likely that Farage or Badenoch are next PM, and they both remain screaming lays
    Why? A new leader isn't going to turn things around. They might be less of a toe curling embarrassment, but the damage is largely done.
    The bet is next Prime Minister, not Prime Minister after the next election. Thus, if Starmer does not stay to contest the next election, the next Prime Minister will be a Labour MP.

    I'd agree that the value in this market is on the Labour MPs.
    Three main scenarios from here:

    A. Labour continue to struggle, and push Starmer overboard before GE2029. Next PM is red.

    B. Starmer stays on and loses in 2029. Next PM isn't red.

    C. Starmer wins in 2028/9 and retires to muted appreciation a couple of years after that. Next PM is red.

    I know Labour don't ditch leaders like the Conservatives do, but B doesn't seem that likely. (And the numbers sort of reflect that. Nigel or Kemi combined is under 50% chance, even with the mug punters boost.)
    I think Starmer would go voluntarily in 2028 having "fixed the foundations" and be replaced by a more charismatic leader such as Rayner or Phillipson.

    A lot depends on Deliverism, in particular on the NHS, but also on levelling up.

    I think both Farage and Badenoch are very poor value in this market. I wouldn't be surprised if Farage isn't even in Parliament after the next GE.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,250

    I'd gladly have a bet now that Starmer will be PM and Labour leader long after Nigel the bandwagon has fecked off the his paymasters in the USA or he may even turn up at a Dacha in Russia. Chased by Tommy R and Andrew T who see him as having ruined the chances of the Far Right Stormtroopers taking over the UK.

    Reform may be able to charge 5000 boneheads a tenner to enjoy the nostalgia of a "Nuremberg Style Rally" and £5 a pop to join 100,000 other bone heads allegedly....

    The funs stops for them though at the point they have

    No formal structure
    Internecine warfare between Habid and Farage and with Lowe getting increasingly restless
    Money does NOT but elections in the UK
    UK voters do not want and will not vote to become the 51st state
    They won't vote for 3 day a week Kemi, definitely not for 2 days a week Nigel.

    The beer swilling cigarette puffing chosen one may well be dead of heart / lung / liver damage soon anyway!....god forbid he gets in any more planes flying banners.

    I do confidently predict a TRUMP style staged assasination attempt on him though around Easter time...just in time for the May elections - but of course FACTS show that since July 4th 2024 they have won precisely how many Council seats??..

    Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception.

    I have no expectation that Farage will become PM but predicting an assassination attempt is a step too far in your post

    And they have won 5 seats but look away if you support labour

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1864827343958630848?t=OhJYn3PzCHjgvSkf_zcqNg&s=19
    I'm not predicting an assassination.. Let's be 100% clear.

    I am predicting a staged attempt... Very Trump like.
    You're not seriously suggesting that the gunman who was killed by the secret service in Pennsylvania after attempting to assassinate Trump was only pretending to assassinate him. You cannot be seriously suggesting that someone would give their life for a staged assassination attempt. We both know that would be a completely deranged thing to say, and even if you were mad enough to think it, you would surely be able to see how it would damage your credibility to suggest such a thing.
    Quite a few people think that

    1) X was favourable to someone I don’t like
    2) Therefore X is fake.

    It’s one of the basic rules of the MAGA universe. Along with

    3) Y is unfavourable to someone I like
    4) Therefore Y is fake.

    By using these simple rules, you can make your world view perfectly er…. bulletproof… against any awkwardness in Reality.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 292

    I'd gladly have a bet now that Starmer will be PM and Labour leader long after Nigel the bandwagon has fecked off the his paymasters in the USA or he may even turn up at a Dacha in Russia. Chased by Tommy R and Andrew T who see him as having ruined the chances of the Far Right Stormtroopers taking over the UK.

    Reform may be able to charge 5000 boneheads a tenner to enjoy the nostalgia of a "Nuremberg Style Rally" and £5 a pop to join 100,000 other bone heads allegedly....

    The funs stops for them though at the point they have

    No formal structure
    Internecine warfare between Habid and Farage and with Lowe getting increasingly restless
    Money does NOT but elections in the UK
    UK voters do not want and will not vote to become the 51st state
    They won't vote for 3 day a week Kemi, definitely not for 2 days a week Nigel.

    The beer swilling cigarette puffing chosen one may well be dead of heart / lung / liver damage soon anyway!....god forbid he gets in any more planes flying banners.

    I do confidently predict a TRUMP style staged assasination attempt on him though around Easter time...just in time for the May elections - but of course FACTS show that since July 4th 2024 they have won precisely how many Council seats??..

    Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception.

    I have no expectation that Farage will become PM but predicting an assassination attempt is a step too far in your post

    And they have won 5 seats but look away if you support labour

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1864827343958630848?t=OhJYn3PzCHjgvSkf_zcqNg&s=19
    I'm not predicting an assassination.. Let's be 100% clear.

    I am predicting a staged attempt... Very Trump like.
    You're not seriously suggesting that the gunman who was killed by the secret service in Pennsylvania after attempting to assassinate Trump was only pretending to assassinate him. You cannot be seriously suggesting that someone would give their life for a staged assassination attempt. We both know that would be a completely deranged thing to say, and even if you were mad enough to think it, you would surely be able to see how it would damage your credibility to suggest such a thing.
    Quite a few people think that

    1) X was favourable to someone I don’t like
    2) Therefore X is fake.

    It’s one of the basic rules of the MAGA universe. Along with

    3) Y is unfavourable to someone I like
    4) Therefore Y is fake.

    By using these simple rules, you can make your world view perfectly er…. bulletproof… against any awkwardness in Reality.
    A number of ballistic experts have said that a genuine bullet would have done far more damage to Trump if glancing him

    The MAGA nutters discrediting conspiracy theories

    World class hypocrites
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,766
    edited December 7
    Morning all. Squally, and heavy, showers here this morning. Sadly. it's the day scheduled for our small town's Christmas Fair.
    However the organisers have managed to find covered space so, assuming anyone ventures out, all should be well.

    Meanwhile I'm supposed to be volunteering at our Museum, which will also provide covered viewing.

    On topic, I think .... hope ..... Farage's Parlamentary 'success' is a temporary blip. It certainly would be if the BBC gave him the airtime he deserved, and stopped fawning over him.
  • Storm update

    Just been out to recover one of our bins and in nearly 50 years in our home I have never experienced such violent winds

    Sky reporter saying wind speeds upto 93 mph in the Menai Straights, wind speeds here reported at 80mph, and the sea state is unbelievable dangerous

    It is expected to last the rest of the day and we are not going anywhere
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,063
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I guess the sequence of events looks like this...

    1. My Kemical Romance proves to be as dreadful as first impressions would suggest leading to the tory polling being in the karsi.

    2. Starmer becomes a bit less shit and starts doing things, leading to further tory woes.

    3. Propelled by Musk's money and GRU social media expertise the Fukkers start to poll ahead of Labour.

    4. The tory defections start.

    5. Whatever's left of the tory party realise the end is nigh and enter an electoral pact with the Fukkers in which they are the junior party.

    6. The Fukkers and their tory underlings win the GE with a MEGA campaign (the hats are blue). Farage is PM. Rejoice at that news. Free Benson & Hedges for the under 14s. Jaguar start making the E-Type again. The ECHR is nothing but a sallow memory.

    That's not impossible and would be wildly entertaining, but it's not a 25% chance.

    He lives.

    We were all worried about you, not that you'd give a shit, of course, but we were.
    Been in Jeddah doing Arabic immersion. Never got to meet @jeddah_racing.
    So you were there for some of the worst of the weather, and came back to Blighty just as it got bearably warm rather than stiflingly hot and humid!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,913

    What is the route for Sir Ed Davey to be our next PM?

    There isn't one, except as last man standing when Lab/Con/Reform have all completed a circular firing squad. LDs are firmly placed now as the alternative to Labour in seats where by custom, history and habit Labour isn't regarded as an option. There aren't enough to go beyond about 100 max.
  • I'd gladly have a bet now that Starmer will be PM and Labour leader long after Nigel the bandwagon has fecked off the his paymasters in the USA or he may even turn up at a Dacha in Russia. Chased by Tommy R and Andrew T who see him as having ruined the chances of the Far Right Stormtroopers taking over the UK.

    Reform may be able to charge 5000 boneheads a tenner to enjoy the nostalgia of a "Nuremberg Style Rally" and £5 a pop to join 100,000 other bone heads allegedly....

    The funs stops for them though at the point they have

    No formal structure
    Internecine warfare between Habid and Farage and with Lowe getting increasingly restless
    Money does NOT but elections in the UK
    UK voters do not want and will not vote to become the 51st state
    They won't vote for 3 day a week Kemi, definitely not for 2 days a week Nigel.

    The beer swilling cigarette puffing chosen one may well be dead of heart / lung / liver damage soon anyway!....god forbid he gets in any more planes flying banners.

    I do confidently predict a TRUMP style staged assasination attempt on him though around Easter time...just in time for the May elections - but of course FACTS show that since July 4th 2024 they have won precisely how many Council seats??..

    Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception.

    I have no expectation that Farage will become PM but predicting an assassination attempt is a step too far in your post

    And they have won 5 seats but look away if you support labour

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1864827343958630848?t=OhJYn3PzCHjgvSkf_zcqNg&s=19
    I'm not predicting an assassination.. Let's be 100% clear.

    I am predicting a staged attempt... Very Trump like.
    You're not seriously suggesting that the gunman who was killed by the secret service in Pennsylvania after attempting to assassinate Trump was only pretending to assassinate him. You cannot be seriously suggesting that someone would give their life for a staged assassination attempt. We both know that would be a completely deranged thing to say, and even if you were mad enough to think it, you would surely be able to see how it would damage your credibility to suggest such a thing.
    Quite a few people think that

    1) X was favourable to someone I don’t like
    2) Therefore X is fake.

    It’s one of the basic rules of the MAGA universe. Along with

    3) Y is unfavourable to someone I like
    4) Therefore Y is fake.

    By using these simple rules, you can make your world view perfectly er…. bulletproof… against any awkwardness in Reality.
    A number of ballistic experts have said that a genuine bullet would have done far more damage to Trump if glancing him

    The MAGA nutters discrediting conspiracy theories

    World class hypocrites
    You are spreading a conspiracy theory with no reputable evidence

    You are the same as the hard right but from the left
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,558
    God help us all.
  • I’d like to propose an alternative scenario.

    I don’t think SKS will be the PM at the next election but that’s because he will have resigned between now and then. Therefore the next PM will be a Labour MP, I suggest Farage and any Tory are extremely poor value in this market.

    The expectations for SKS and Labour are so low that I still believe that if they do anything positive they will be re-elected. It’s rare that governments with majorities like these get ejected after one term. Now I know the last one was but that was really after a string of very unlikely events? With a new leader up against Badenoch (or any other Tory MP), Labour will have a better chance.

    I do find the idea of a recession intriguing though. And if that happens, I’ll be betting on Labour to lose.

    I think we should be discussing more which of the most likely Labour PMs, has the best chance of winning an election. I’d suggest Streeting or Phillipson. The former has a better chance of re-inventing Blairism for now but the latter looks and sounds working class and has an interesting background.

    I still think Dan Jarvis could go for it in the right circumstances.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,558

    Storm update

    Just been out to recover one of our bins and in nearly 50 years in our home I have never experienced such violent winds

    Sky reporter saying wind speeds upto 93 mph in the Menai Straights, wind speeds here reported at 80mph, and the sea state is unbelievable dangerous

    It is expected to last the rest of the day and we are not going anywhere

    Just drove my son up to beyond Peterborough for a party. Not nice weather, a bit wet; a bit blowy, but nothing remarkable here, further east.

    Hope you're buttoned up well.
  • Storm update

    Just been out to recover one of our bins and in nearly 50 years in our home I have never experienced such violent winds

    Sky reporter saying wind speeds upto 93 mph in the Menai Straights, wind speeds here reported at 80mph, and the sea state is unbelievable dangerous

    It is expected to last the rest of the day and we are not going anywhere

    Just drove my son up to beyond Peterborough for a party. Not nice weather, a bit wet; a bit blowy, but nothing remarkable here, further east.

    Hope you're buttoned up well.
    Staying inside with heating on plus it is raining heavily

    Expect lots of flooding in Wales
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,250

    I'd gladly have a bet now that Starmer will be PM and Labour leader long after Nigel the bandwagon has fecked off the his paymasters in the USA or he may even turn up at a Dacha in Russia. Chased by Tommy R and Andrew T who see him as having ruined the chances of the Far Right Stormtroopers taking over the UK.

    Reform may be able to charge 5000 boneheads a tenner to enjoy the nostalgia of a "Nuremberg Style Rally" and £5 a pop to join 100,000 other bone heads allegedly....

    The funs stops for them though at the point they have

    No formal structure
    Internecine warfare between Habid and Farage and with Lowe getting increasingly restless
    Money does NOT but elections in the UK
    UK voters do not want and will not vote to become the 51st state
    They won't vote for 3 day a week Kemi, definitely not for 2 days a week Nigel.

    The beer swilling cigarette puffing chosen one may well be dead of heart / lung / liver damage soon anyway!....god forbid he gets in any more planes flying banners.

    I do confidently predict a TRUMP style staged assasination attempt on him though around Easter time...just in time for the May elections - but of course FACTS show that since July 4th 2024 they have won precisely how many Council seats??..

    Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception.

    I have no expectation that Farage will become PM but predicting an assassination attempt is a step too far in your post

    And they have won 5 seats but look away if you support labour

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1864827343958630848?t=OhJYn3PzCHjgvSkf_zcqNg&s=19
    I'm not predicting an assassination.. Let's be 100% clear.

    I am predicting a staged attempt... Very Trump like.
    You're not seriously suggesting that the gunman who was killed by the secret service in Pennsylvania after attempting to assassinate Trump was only pretending to assassinate him. You cannot be seriously suggesting that someone would give their life for a staged assassination attempt. We both know that would be a completely deranged thing to say, and even if you were mad enough to think it, you would surely be able to see how it would damage your credibility to suggest such a thing.
    Quite a few people think that

    1) X was favourable to someone I don’t like
    2) Therefore X is fake.

    It’s one of the basic rules of the MAGA universe. Along with

    3) Y is unfavourable to someone I like
    4) Therefore Y is fake.

    By using these simple rules, you can make your world view perfectly er…. bulletproof… against any awkwardness in Reality.
    A number of ballistic experts have said that a genuine bullet would have done far more damage to Trump if glancing him

    The MAGA nutters discrediting conspiracy theories

    World class hypocrites
    The huge number of minor wounds in warfare prove that near misses/just touching rounds do not necessarily do a great deal.

    My grandfather had a scrape on his shoulder from WWI. A bullet was low enough to cut through all the cloth, and just grazed the skin. Bled a little, then stoped of its own accord.

    And 7.92 has far more energy than any 5.56 ever fired.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,063

    Storm update

    Just been out to recover one of our bins and in nearly 50 years in our home I have never experienced such violent winds

    Sky reporter saying wind speeds upto 93 mph in the Menai Straights, wind speeds here reported at 80mph, and the sea state is unbelievable dangerous

    It is expected to last the rest of the day and we are not going anywhere

    Ah, so that explains the Merseyside Derby being postponed. I thought the storms were mostly over when that’s clearly not the case. Later matches in Birmingham and Manchester still look like they’re on at the moment.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,975

    I'd gladly have a bet now that Starmer will be PM and Labour leader long after Nigel the bandwagon has fecked off the his paymasters in the USA or he may even turn up at a Dacha in Russia. Chased by Tommy R and Andrew T who see him as having ruined the chances of the Far Right Stormtroopers taking over the UK.

    Reform may be able to charge 5000 boneheads a tenner to enjoy the nostalgia of a "Nuremberg Style Rally" and £5 a pop to join 100,000 other bone heads allegedly....

    The funs stops for them though at the point they have

    No formal structure
    Internecine warfare between Habid and Farage and with Lowe getting increasingly restless
    Money does NOT but elections in the UK
    UK voters do not want and will not vote to become the 51st state
    They won't vote for 3 day a week Kemi, definitely not for 2 days a week Nigel.

    The beer swilling cigarette puffing chosen one may well be dead of heart / lung / liver damage soon anyway!....god forbid he gets in any more planes flying banners.

    I do confidently predict a TRUMP style staged assasination attempt on him though around Easter time...just in time for the May elections - but of course FACTS show that since July 4th 2024 they have won precisely how many Council seats??..

    Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception.

    I have no expectation that Farage will become PM but predicting an assassination attempt is a step too far in your post

    And they have won 5 seats but look away if you support labour

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1864827343958630848?t=OhJYn3PzCHjgvSkf_zcqNg&s=19
    I'm not predicting an assassination.. Let's be 100% clear.

    I am predicting a staged attempt... Very Trump like.
    You're not seriously suggesting that the gunman who was killed by the secret service in Pennsylvania after attempting to assassinate Trump was only pretending to assassinate him. You cannot be seriously suggesting that someone would give their life for a staged assassination attempt. We both know that would be a completely deranged thing to say, and even if you were mad enough to think it, you would surely be able to see how it would damage your credibility to suggest such a thing.
    Quite a few people think that

    1) X was favourable to someone I don’t like
    2) Therefore X is fake.

    It’s one of the basic rules of the MAGA universe. Along with

    3) Y is unfavourable to someone I like
    4) Therefore Y is fake.

    By using these simple rules, you can make your world view perfectly er…. bulletproof… against any awkwardness in Reality.
    A number of ballistic experts have said that a genuine bullet would have done far more damage to Trump if glancing him

    The MAGA nutters discrediting conspiracy theories

    World class hypocrites
    You are spreading a conspiracy theory with no reputable evidence

    You are the same as the hard right but from the left
    All very reminiscent of Currygate and several other gates.

    Hope you are doing fine in the wake of Storm Eluned.

    We are still getting battered here. No 'tinternet and no felt o the shed roof nearest to the house. The greenhouse downpipe and water but have blown over. Roll on 3 o clock.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,558

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Well in a speech in America Kemi was tacitly calling for Starmer's head because of his vicious racial attack on her.during his Pinewood snoozefest. (The MacDonalds vicious racial attack).
    Starmer's McDonald's comment wasn't racist, but it was also a poor joke, and an insult. Not just to her, but everyone else who works at McDonalds.

    His definition of 'work' may cause him issues in the future. He doesn't seem to respect people who do genuinely low-paid work in the private sector.
  • I'd gladly have a bet now that Starmer will be PM and Labour leader long after Nigel the bandwagon has fecked off the his paymasters in the USA or he may even turn up at a Dacha in Russia. Chased by Tommy R and Andrew T who see him as having ruined the chances of the Far Right Stormtroopers taking over the UK.

    Reform may be able to charge 5000 boneheads a tenner to enjoy the nostalgia of a "Nuremberg Style Rally" and £5 a pop to join 100,000 other bone heads allegedly....

    The funs stops for them though at the point they have

    No formal structure
    Internecine warfare between Habid and Farage and with Lowe getting increasingly restless
    Money does NOT but elections in the UK
    UK voters do not want and will not vote to become the 51st state
    They won't vote for 3 day a week Kemi, definitely not for 2 days a week Nigel.

    The beer swilling cigarette puffing chosen one may well be dead of heart / lung / liver damage soon anyway!....god forbid he gets in any more planes flying banners.

    I do confidently predict a TRUMP style staged assasination attempt on him though around Easter time...just in time for the May elections - but of course FACTS show that since July 4th 2024 they have won precisely how many Council seats??..

    Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception.

    I have no expectation that Farage will become PM but predicting an assassination attempt is a step too far in your post

    And they have won 5 seats but look away if you support labour

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1864827343958630848?t=OhJYn3PzCHjgvSkf_zcqNg&s=19
    I'm not predicting an assassination.. Let's be 100% clear.

    I am predicting a staged attempt... Very Trump like.
    You're not seriously suggesting that the gunman who was killed by the secret service in Pennsylvania after attempting to assassinate Trump was only pretending to assassinate him. You cannot be seriously suggesting that someone would give their life for a staged assassination attempt. We both know that would be a completely deranged thing to say, and even if you were mad enough to think it, you would surely be able to see how it would damage your credibility to suggest such a thing.
    Quite a few people think that

    1) X was favourable to someone I don’t like
    2) Therefore X is fake.

    It’s one of the basic rules of the MAGA universe. Along with

    3) Y is unfavourable to someone I like
    4) Therefore Y is fake.

    By using these simple rules, you can make your world view perfectly er…. bulletproof… against any awkwardness in Reality.
    A number of ballistic experts have said that a genuine bullet would have done far more damage to Trump if glancing him

    The MAGA nutters discrediting conspiracy theories

    World class hypocrites
    You are spreading a conspiracy theory with no reputable evidence

    You are the same as the hard right but from the left
    All very reminiscent of Currygate and several other gates.

    Hope you are doing fine in the wake of Storm Eluned.

    We are still getting battered here. No 'tinternet and no felt o the shed roof nearest to the house. The greenhouse downpipe and water but have blown over. Roll on 3 o clock.
    Keep safe - this storm is dangerous
  • I’d like to propose an alternative scenario.

    I don’t think SKS will be the PM at the next election but that’s because he will have resigned between now and then. Therefore the next PM will be a Labour MP, I suggest Farage and any Tory are extremely poor value in this market.

    The expectations for SKS and Labour are so low that I still believe that if they do anything positive they will be re-elected. It’s rare that governments with majorities like these get ejected after one term. Now I know the last one was but that was really after a string of very unlikely events? With a new leader up against Badenoch (or any other Tory MP), Labour will have a better chance.

    I do find the idea of a recession intriguing though. And if that happens, I’ll be betting on Labour to lose.

    I think we should be discussing more which of the most likely Labour PMs, has the best chance of winning an election. I’d suggest Streeting or Phillipson. The former has a better chance of re-inventing Blairism for now but the latter looks and sounds working class and has an interesting background.

    I still think Dan Jarvis could go for it in the right circumstances.

    I think it is well possible that Labour will lose their majority but still form part of the next government. Would the Liberals insist on a new PM as the price of their support?
    I dont think Streeting can be leader unless he can switch to a safer seat, it seems likely he will lose his next time.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 4,092
    edited December 7

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Well in a speech in America Kemi was tacitly calling for Starmer's head because of his vicious racial attack on her.during his Pinewood snoozefest. (The MacDonalds vicious racial attack).
    Starmer's McDonald's comment wasn't racist, but it was also a poor joke, and an insult. Not just to her, but everyone else who works at McDonalds.

    His definition of 'work' may cause him issues in the future. He doesn't seem to respect people who do genuinely low-paid work in the private sector.
    I’m confused. He said that if you work a few shifts at McDonald’s you don’t become working class.

    If I worked a few shifts at McDonald’s, would I become working class?

    I don’t think it was a very funny joke but I’m struggling to understand what the issue is here. And at any rate if Badenoch had said what you’d said, she’d have got more traction. But saying it was about racism just undermines her entire supposed belief system. I honestly expected more from her.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,913

    IanB2 said:

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Then even less likely that Farage or Badenoch are next PM, and they both remain screaming lays
    Why? A new leader isn't going to turn things around. They might be less of a toe curling embarrassment, but the damage is largely done.
    The bet is next Prime Minister, not Prime Minister after the next election. Thus, if Starmer does not stay to contest the next election, the next Prime Minister will be a Labour MP.

    I'd agree that the value in this market is on the Labour MPs.
    Three main scenarios from here:

    A. Labour continue to struggle, and push Starmer overboard before GE2029. Next PM is red.

    B. Starmer stays on and loses in 2029. Next PM isn't red.

    C. Starmer wins in 2028/9 and retires to muted appreciation a couple of years after that. Next PM is red.

    I know Labour don't ditch leaders like the Conservatives do, but B doesn't seem that likely. (And the numbers sort of reflect that. Nigel or Kemi combined is under 50% chance, even with the mug punters boost.)
    About right I think. Within those boundaries, and allowing for black swans, the next PM race is a 50 horse steeplechase in the mud, not a 6 runner 5 furlong on the flat. Whoever is the favourite should be at longish odds - something like 8/1 or longer. The next PM may be someone we have hardly heard of, it is just possible they are not even in the HoC at this moment. (Miliband D would be easily the best Labour candidate though he is now 59).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,975

    I'd gladly have a bet now that Starmer will be PM and Labour leader long after Nigel the bandwagon has fecked off the his paymasters in the USA or he may even turn up at a Dacha in Russia. Chased by Tommy R and Andrew T who see him as having ruined the chances of the Far Right Stormtroopers taking over the UK.

    Reform may be able to charge 5000 boneheads a tenner to enjoy the nostalgia of a "Nuremberg Style Rally" and £5 a pop to join 100,000 other bone heads allegedly....

    The funs stops for them though at the point they have

    No formal structure
    Internecine warfare between Habid and Farage and with Lowe getting increasingly restless
    Money does NOT but elections in the UK
    UK voters do not want and will not vote to become the 51st state
    They won't vote for 3 day a week Kemi, definitely not for 2 days a week Nigel.

    The beer swilling cigarette puffing chosen one may well be dead of heart / lung / liver damage soon anyway!....god forbid he gets in any more planes flying banners.

    I do confidently predict a TRUMP style staged assasination attempt on him though around Easter time...just in time for the May elections - but of course FACTS show that since July 4th 2024 they have won precisely how many Council seats??..

    Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception.

    I have no expectation that Farage will become PM but predicting an assassination attempt is a step too far in your post

    And they have won 5 seats but look away if you support labour

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1864827343958630848?t=OhJYn3PzCHjgvSkf_zcqNg&s=19
    I'm not predicting an assassination.. Let's be 100% clear.

    I am predicting a staged attempt... Very Trump like.
    Despite his personal Trump-like celebrity Nigel needs the Conservative Party. A reverse takeover or an acquisition of the name after enough Tories jump ship are the options. There are plenty on here who would be persuaded to vote Tory if Putin moved to St George's Hill

    I'd gladly have a bet now that Starmer will be PM and Labour leader long after Nigel the bandwagon has fecked off the his paymasters in the USA or he may even turn up at a Dacha in Russia. Chased by Tommy R and Andrew T who see him as having ruined the chances of the Far Right Stormtroopers taking over the UK.

    Reform may be able to charge 5000 boneheads a tenner to enjoy the nostalgia of a "Nuremberg Style Rally" and £5 a pop to join 100,000 other bone heads allegedly....

    The funs stops for them though at the point they have

    No formal structure
    Internecine warfare between Habid and Farage and with Lowe getting increasingly restless
    Money does NOT but elections in the UK
    UK voters do not want and will not vote to become the 51st state
    They won't vote for 3 day a week Kemi, definitely not for 2 days a week Nigel.

    The beer swilling cigarette puffing chosen one may well be dead of heart / lung / liver damage soon anyway!....god forbid he gets in any more planes flying banners.

    I do confidently predict a TRUMP style staged assasination attempt on him though around Easter time...just in time for the May elections - but of course FACTS show that since July 4th 2024 they have won precisely how many Council seats??..

    Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception.

    I have no expectation that Farage will become PM but predicting an assassination attempt is a step too far in your post

    And they have won 5 seats but look away if you support labour

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1864827343958630848?t=OhJYn3PzCHjgvSkf_zcqNg&s=19
    I'm not predicting an assassination.. Let's be 100% clear.

    I am predicting a staged attempt... Very Trump like.
    You're not seriously suggesting that the gunman who was killed by the secret service in Pennsylvania after attempting to assassinate Trump was only pretending to assassinate him. You cannot be seriously suggesting that someone would give their life for a staged assassination attempt. We both know that would be a completely deranged thing to say, and even if you were mad enough to think it, you would surely be able to see how it would damage your credibility to suggest such a thing.
    Quite a few people think that

    1) X was favourable to someone I don’t like
    2) Therefore X is fake.

    It’s one of the basic rules of the MAGA universe. Along with

    3) Y is unfavourable to someone I like
    4) Therefore Y is fake.

    By using these simple rules, you can make your world view perfectly er…. bulletproof… against any awkwardness in Reality.
    A number of ballistic experts have said that a genuine bullet would have done far more damage to Trump if glancing him

    The MAGA nutters discrediting conspiracy theories

    World class hypocrites
    You are spreading a conspiracy theory with no reputable evidence

    You are the same as the hard right but from the left
    All very reminiscent of Currygate and several other gates.

    Hope you are doing fine in the wake of Storm Eluned.

    We are still getting battered here. No 'tinternet and no felt o the shed roof nearest to the house. The greenhouse downpipe and water but have blown over. Roll on 3 o clock.
    Keep safe - this storm is dangerous
    You too G.
  • I’d like to propose an alternative scenario.

    I don’t think SKS will be the PM at the next election but that’s because he will have resigned between now and then. Therefore the next PM will be a Labour MP, I suggest Farage and any Tory are extremely poor value in this market.

    The expectations for SKS and Labour are so low that I still believe that if they do anything positive they will be re-elected. It’s rare that governments with majorities like these get ejected after one term. Now I know the last one was but that was really after a string of very unlikely events? With a new leader up against Badenoch (or any other Tory MP), Labour will have a better chance.

    I do find the idea of a recession intriguing though. And if that happens, I’ll be betting on Labour to lose.

    I think we should be discussing more which of the most likely Labour PMs, has the best chance of winning an election. I’d suggest Streeting or Phillipson. The former has a better chance of re-inventing Blairism for now but the latter looks and sounds working class and has an interesting background.

    I still think Dan Jarvis could go for it in the right circumstances.

    I think it is well possible that Labour will lose their majority but still form part of the next government. Would the Liberals insist on a new PM as the price of their support?
    I dont think Streeting can be leader unless he can switch to a safer seat, it seems likely he will lose his next time.
    With Streeting is there an argument that being the PM candidate would help him more easily get over the line as it did with Sunak? And will the same circumstances repeat in 2029?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,250

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Well in a speech in America Kemi was tacitly calling for Starmer's head because of his vicious racial attack on her.during his Pinewood snoozefest. (The MacDonalds vicious racial attack).
    Starmer's McDonald's comment wasn't racist, but it was also a poor joke, and an insult. Not just to her, but everyone else who works at McDonalds.

    His definition of 'work' may cause him issues in the future. He doesn't seem to respect people who do genuinely low-paid work in the private sector.
    They’re not real.

    One big barrier, in this country, is the divide between public sector and private sector jobs.

    It is very difficult to change between them. Even something as basic as an CV doesn’t transfer.

    And talking to people in each - their knowledge of The Other is mostly myths.
  • algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Then even less likely that Farage or Badenoch are next PM, and they both remain screaming lays
    Why? A new leader isn't going to turn things around. They might be less of a toe curling embarrassment, but the damage is largely done.
    The bet is next Prime Minister, not Prime Minister after the next election. Thus, if Starmer does not stay to contest the next election, the next Prime Minister will be a Labour MP.

    I'd agree that the value in this market is on the Labour MPs.
    Three main scenarios from here:

    A. Labour continue to struggle, and push Starmer overboard before GE2029. Next PM is red.

    B. Starmer stays on and loses in 2029. Next PM isn't red.

    C. Starmer wins in 2028/9 and retires to muted appreciation a couple of years after that. Next PM is red.

    I know Labour don't ditch leaders like the Conservatives do, but B doesn't seem that likely. (And the numbers sort of reflect that. Nigel or Kemi combined is under 50% chance, even with the mug punters boost.)
    About right I think. Within those boundaries, and allowing for black swans, the next PM race is a 50 horse steeplechase in the mud, not a 6 runner 5 furlong on the flat. Whoever is the favourite should be at longish odds - something like 8/1 or longer. The next PM may be someone we have hardly heard of, it is just possible they are not even in the HoC at this moment. (Miliband D would be easily the best Labour candidate though he is now 59).
    How does D become leader though? He’d need to stand in a by-election.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,246
    edited December 7

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Well in a speech in America Kemi was tacitly calling for Starmer's head because of his vicious racial attack on her.during his Pinewood snoozefest. (The MacDonalds vicious racial attack).
    Starmer's McDonald's comment wasn't racist, but it was also a poor joke, and an insult. Not just to her, but everyone else who works at McDonalds.

    His definition of 'work' may cause him issues in the future. He doesn't seem to respect people who do genuinely low-paid work in the private sector.
    I’m confused. He said that if you work a few shifts at McDonald’s you don’t become working class.

    If I worked a few shifts at McDonald’s, would I become working class?

    I don’t think it was a very funny joke but I’m struggling to understand what the issue is here. And at any rate if Badenoch had said what you’d said, she’d have got more traction. But saying it was about racism just undermines her entire supposed belief system. I honestly expected more from her.
    I used to work at the Wimpy. Is that even more working class than Kemi in the prolier than thou stakes?
  • Keir Starmer has triggered alarm across Labour over his poor performance in his first 5 months as PM, after Thursday’s reset speech flopped

    His party wants bolder policies, a clearer purpose and much sharper messaging

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/1865320495039512639
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,558

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Well in a speech in America Kemi was tacitly calling for Starmer's head because of his vicious racial attack on her.during his Pinewood snoozefest. (The MacDonalds vicious racial attack).
    Starmer's McDonald's comment wasn't racist, but it was also a poor joke, and an insult. Not just to her, but everyone else who works at McDonalds.

    His definition of 'work' may cause him issues in the future. He doesn't seem to respect people who do genuinely low-paid work in the private sector.
    I’m confused. He said that if you work a few shifts at McDonald’s you don’t become working class.

    If I worked a few shifts at McDonald’s, would I become working class?

    I don’t think it was a very funny joke but I’m struggling to understand what the issue is here. And at any rate if Badenoch had said what you’d said, she’d have got more traction. But saying it was about racism just undermines her entire supposed belief system. I honestly expected more from her.
    I agree about Badenoch's response, and I don't agree with it.

    But I think Starmer views 'work' and 'working class' oddly. Perhaps because of his own background, he likes to pigeonhole people. I don't know how many hours Badenoch worked at a McDonalds, but it's perfectly possible that she got more understanding of what it is to 'work' at low pay than he ever has.

    I'm not working class. But I worked a lot, and associated with, lots of labourers and working-class people when I was a kid, including my dad's employees. It didn't make me working class, but it did give me some level of understanding of the lives and challenges different people have. Without that, I think I'd have much more of a middle-class, and perhaps even 'Tory' outlook.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,975

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Well in a speech in America Kemi was tacitly calling for Starmer's head because of his vicious racial attack on her.during his Pinewood snoozefest. (The MacDonalds vicious racial attack).
    Starmer's McDonald's comment wasn't racist, but it was also a poor joke, and an insult. Not just to her, but everyone else who works at McDonalds.

    His definition of 'work' may cause him issues in the future. He doesn't seem to respect people who do genuinely low-paid work in the private sector.
    Starmer's point was the absurd assertion by Badenoch that working a few days in MaccieDs made her working class. What is this ludicrous rekindled British obsession with class? If you follow the "joke" through it doesn't demean anyone but Badenoch. She implies he only made such a "joke" because she is black.

    If Badenoch is mortally offended and believes Starmer's comment was racially motivated she had every right to demand his resignation. She is the one who feels racially offended, not you.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,246
    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    on the topic:

    At the risk of being proved wrong (any columnist’s worst nightmare), I predict that Starmer’s own personality will not get him to the end of this Parliament.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/06/im-beginning-to-think-keir-starmer-will-not-survive/

    Then even less likely that Farage or Badenoch are next PM, and they both remain screaming lays
    Why? A new leader isn't going to turn things around. They might be less of a toe curling embarrassment, but the damage is largely done.
    The bet is next Prime Minister, not Prime Minister after the next election. Thus, if Starmer does not stay to contest the next election, the next Prime Minister will be a Labour MP.

    I'd agree that the value in this market is on the Labour MPs.
    Three main scenarios from here:

    A. Labour continue to struggle, and push Starmer overboard before GE2029. Next PM is red.

    B. Starmer stays on and loses in 2029. Next PM isn't red.

    C. Starmer wins in 2028/9 and retires to muted appreciation a couple of years after that. Next PM is red.

    I know Labour don't ditch leaders like the Conservatives do, but B doesn't seem that likely. (And the numbers sort of reflect that. Nigel or Kemi combined is under 50% chance, even with the mug punters boost.)
    About right I think. Within those boundaries, and allowing for black swans, the next PM race is a 50 horse steeplechase in the mud, not a 6 runner 5 furlong on the flat. Whoever is the favourite should be at longish odds - something like 8/1 or longer. The next PM may be someone we have hardly heard of, it is just possible they are not even in the HoC at this moment. (Miliband D would be easily the best Labour candidate though he is now 59).
    Of those outside parliament, Andy Burnham is far and away the most likely. He is generally thought to be doing a good job in Greater Manchester, is authentically Northern and has a lot of support. David Miliband has no infrastructure.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,250
    On topic -

    The Conservatives are still down from a massive knockout blow.

    Labour is still standing, but is looking shaky

    The Lib Dem’s are nowhere

    Reform don’t have the skills or organisation to take the opportunity. That is now - but sooner or later someone will work it out.

    I keep saying it - if you want liberal social democracy, then find liberal social democratic solutions to problems.

    Saying that “10 years planning windows are good process, not a problem” is a problem.

    If it isn’t fixed, then you will get the bunch whose slogan is “We will build the railways on time. And the deportations will run on time as well.”

    If you look at the power of Parliament, primary legislation allows it to do *anything* - pretty much unencumbered.

    It’s a good rule to considered what the worst possible people can do with power….
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,975

    I'd gladly have a bet now that Starmer will be PM and Labour leader long after Nigel the bandwagon has fecked off the his paymasters in the USA or he may even turn up at a Dacha in Russia. Chased by Tommy R and Andrew T who see him as having ruined the chances of the Far Right Stormtroopers taking over the UK.

    Reform may be able to charge 5000 boneheads a tenner to enjoy the nostalgia of a "Nuremberg Style Rally" and £5 a pop to join 100,000 other bone heads allegedly....

    The funs stops for them though at the point they have

    No formal structure
    Internecine warfare between Habid and Farage and with Lowe getting increasingly restless
    Money does NOT but elections in the UK
    UK voters do not want and will not vote to become the 51st state
    They won't vote for 3 day a week Kemi, definitely not for 2 days a week Nigel.

    The beer swilling cigarette puffing chosen one may well be dead of heart / lung / liver damage soon anyway!....god forbid he gets in any more planes flying banners.

    I do confidently predict a TRUMP style staged assasination attempt on him though around Easter time...just in time for the May elections - but of course FACTS show that since July 4th 2024 they have won precisely how many Council seats??..

    Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception.

    I have no expectation that Farage will become PM but predicting an assassination attempt is a step too far in your post

    And they have won 5 seats but look away if you support labour

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1864827343958630848?t=OhJYn3PzCHjgvSkf_zcqNg&s=19
    I'm not predicting an assassination.. Let's be 100% clear.

    I am predicting a staged attempt... Very Trump like.
    Despite his personal Trump-like celebrity Nigel needs the Conservative Party. A reverse takeover or an acquisition of the name after enough Tories jump ship are the options. There are plenty on here who would be persuaded to vote Tory if Putin moved to St George's Hill

    I'd gladly have a bet now that Starmer will be PM and Labour leader long after Nigel the bandwagon has fecked off the his paymasters in the USA or he may even turn up at a Dacha in Russia. Chased by Tommy R and Andrew T who see him as having ruined the chances of the Far Right Stormtroopers taking over the UK.

    Reform may be able to charge 5000 boneheads a tenner to enjoy the nostalgia of a "Nuremberg Style Rally" and £5 a pop to join 100,000 other bone heads allegedly....

    The funs stops for them though at the point they have

    No formal structure
    Internecine warfare between Habid and Farage and with Lowe getting increasingly restless
    Money does NOT but elections in the UK
    UK voters do not want and will not vote to become the 51st state
    They won't vote for 3 day a week Kemi, definitely not for 2 days a week Nigel.

    The beer swilling cigarette puffing chosen one may well be dead of heart / lung / liver damage soon anyway!....god forbid he gets in any more planes flying banners.

    I do confidently predict a TRUMP style staged assasination attempt on him though around Easter time...just in time for the May elections - but of course FACTS show that since July 4th 2024 they have won precisely how many Council seats??..

    Betting markets are usually full of idiots following sheep off a cliff....this is no exception.

    I have no expectation that Farage will become PM but predicting an assassination attempt is a step too far in your post

    And they have won 5 seats but look away if you support labour

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1864827343958630848?t=OhJYn3PzCHjgvSkf_zcqNg&s=19
    I'm not predicting an assassination.. Let's be 100% clear.

    I am predicting a staged attempt... Very Trump like.
    You're not seriously suggesting that the gunman who was killed by the secret service in Pennsylvania after attempting to assassinate Trump was only pretending to assassinate him. You cannot be seriously suggesting that someone would give their life for a staged assassination attempt. We both know that would be a completely deranged thing to say, and even if you were mad enough to think it, you would surely be able to see how it would damage your credibility to suggest such a thing.
    Quite a few people think that

    1) X was favourable to someone I don’t like
    2) Therefore X is fake.

    It’s one of the basic rules of the MAGA universe. Along with

    3) Y is unfavourable to someone I like
    4) Therefore Y is fake.

    By using these simple rules, you can make your world view perfectly er…. bulletproof… against any awkwardness in Reality.
    A number of ballistic experts have said that a genuine bullet would have done far more damage to Trump if glancing him

    The MAGA nutters discrediting conspiracy theories

    World class hypocrites
    You are spreading a conspiracy theory with no reputable evidence

    You are the same as the hard right but from the left
    All very reminiscent of Currygate and several other gates.

    Hope you are doing fine in the wake of Storm Eluned.

    We are still getting battered here. No 'tinternet and no felt o the shed roof nearest to the house. The greenhouse downpipe and water but have blown over. Roll on 3 o clock.
    Keep safe - this storm is dangerous
    You too G.
    Apologies for the repeat posting of the first quote. Vanilla has sometimes taken to saving already posted posts!
  • Sandpit said:

    Storm update

    Just been out to recover one of our bins and in nearly 50 years in our home I have never experienced such violent winds

    Sky reporter saying wind speeds upto 93 mph in the Menai Straights, wind speeds here reported at 80mph, and the sea state is unbelievable dangerous

    It is expected to last the rest of the day and we are not going anywhere

    Ah, so that explains the Merseyside Derby being postponed. I thought the storms were mostly over when that’s clearly not the case. Later matches in Birmingham and Manchester still look like they’re on at the moment.
    I doubt it's due to the weather - Everton scared, more likely.
  • SKS has got to get Alastair Campbell back. Now.
  • Keir Starmer has triggered alarm across Labour over his poor performance in his first 5 months as PM, after Thursday’s reset speech flopped

    His party wants bolder policies, a clearer purpose and much sharper messaging

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/1865320495039512639

    I simply think the problem is Starmer himself

    Ironically Rayner would perform far better but she is not the answer either

    I see no alternative for Labour than to hope Starmer improves but on the evidence so far I wouldn't hold my breath
This discussion has been closed.