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Let’s talk about your favourite Tube lines – politicalbetting.com

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  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,079
    edited December 2024
    Killer of diabetics. Convinced his course participants to put themselves in pre-insulin days, when Type I was a death sentence. Ooof. :

    An alternative healer has been jailed for 10 years for the manslaughter of a 71-year-old diabetic woman who stopped taking insulin at his slapping therapy workshop.

    Danielle Carr-Gomm died in October 2016 while taking part in the Paida Lajin therapy event, which sees patients being slapped or slapping themselves repeatedly.

    Hongchi Xiao, of Cloudbreak, California, was convicted by a jury in July at Winchester Crown Court of manslaughter by gross negligence after he failed to get medical help for Ms Carr-Gomm at the event in Wiltshire.

    He was also sentenced to a further five years on extended licence after his time in prison.

    The 61-year-old was extradited for the trial from Australia, where he had previously been prosecuted after a six-year-old boy also died when his parents withdrew his insulin medication after attending the defendant's workshop in Sydney.

    Mr Justice Bright added Xiao will be liable to be deported to America after serving his sentence.
    ...
    Ms Carr-Gomm believed it worked and delivered glowing testimonials, the court previously heard.

    The court heard that Xiao said "well done" to Ms Carr-Gomm, after she told the participants that she had stopped taking her insulin at the week-long retreat.

    By the third day "she was vomiting, tired and weak, and by the evening she was howling in pain and unable to respond to questions", prosecutor Duncan Atkinson KC said.

    Ms Carr-Gomm, who was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes in 1999, was "howling in pain" and "frothing at the mouth" as she became seriously ill before she died on the fourth day of the workshop.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1el71pq2e1o
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307
    edited December 2024
    Cut

  • Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,070
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Is the only alternative to Assad an Islamic fundamentalist government?

    Yes effectively, which is why we must hope Assad retains control around Damascus with Russian and Iranian support and the Kurds keep control of their regions too
    I’m not convinced that Islamic fundamentalists are worse than Putin and his supporters.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,070

    HYUFD said:

    'Tommy Robinson has told his followers to BACK Reform UK.

    He has also officially invited Reform UK to speak at a ‘super-event’ which is planned for when he’s released from prison, reports
    @ThorpeWatch'

    https://x.com/Inevitablewest/status/1864996368667771037

    I am so relieved he didn't say to back the conservatives
    No, that’s @HYUFD’s job.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,357
    Foxy said:

    Cut

    More Aussies?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,402
    Foxy said:

    Cut


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Foxy doing his bit for the nation’s defence.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Is the only alternative to Assad an Islamic fundamentalist government?

    Yes effectively, which is why we must hope Assad retains control around Damascus with Russian and Iranian support and the Kurds keep control of their regions too
    I’m not convinced that Islamic fundamentalists are worse than Putin and his supporters.
    In the Middle East they are, the best outcome though is probably Assad holds onto Damascus with Putin having to keep sending Russian jets and mercenaries to prop him up who would otherwise have gone to the front in Ukraine
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,079
    MattW said:

    Killer of diabetics. Convinced his course participants to put themselves in pre-insulin days, when Type I was a death sentence. Ooof. :

    An alternative healer has been jailed for 10 years for the manslaughter of a 71-year-old diabetic woman who stopped taking insulin at his slapping therapy workshop.

    Danielle Carr-Gomm died in October 2016 while taking part in the Paida Lajin therapy event, which sees patients being slapped or slapping themselves repeatedly.

    Hongchi Xiao, of Cloudbreak, California, was convicted by a jury in July at Winchester Crown Court of manslaughter by gross negligence after he failed to get medical help for Ms Carr-Gomm at the event in Wiltshire.

    He was also sentenced to a further five years on extended licence after his time in prison.

    The 61-year-old was extradited for the trial from Australia, where he had previously been prosecuted after a six-year-old boy also died when his parents withdrew his insulin medication after attending the defendant's workshop in Sydney.

    Mr Justice Bright added Xiao will be liable to be deported to America after serving his sentence.
    ...
    Ms Carr-Gomm believed it worked and delivered glowing testimonials, the court previously heard.

    The court heard that Xiao said "well done" to Ms Carr-Gomm, after she told the participants that she had stopped taking her insulin at the week-long retreat.

    By the third day "she was vomiting, tired and weak, and by the evening she was howling in pain and unable to respond to questions", prosecutor Duncan Atkinson KC said.

    Ms Carr-Gomm, who was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes in 1999, was "howling in pain" and "frothing at the mouth" as she became seriously ill before she died on the fourth day of the workshop.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1el71pq2e1o

    I'd be quite interested to hear from @Foxy about his experience of reactions to non-needle based therapies. Lord Drayson developed something called Powderject in the early 1990s, which used a jet of insulin bearing powder to pierce the skin, and insulin pumps have available since the late 1980s (they use a catheter of sorts - now just a PTFE filament).

    Psychological blocks can do strange things, and she could have deemed them to be needles.

    There is also inhaled insulin, but not on the NHS.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,070
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Is the only alternative to Assad an Islamic fundamentalist government?

    Yes effectively, which is why we must hope Assad retains control around Damascus with Russian and Iranian support and the Kurds keep control of their regions too
    I’m not convinced that Islamic fundamentalists are worse than Putin and his supporters.
    In the Middle East they are, the best outcome though is probably Assad holds onto Damascus with Putin having to keep sending Russian jets and mercenaries to prop him up who would otherwise have gone to the front in Ukraine
    Agreed, but will Putin think it’s worth his while to continue to support Assad?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,070
    HYUFD said:


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
    I thought a Labour government would be a breath of fresh air after the incompetence of the Conservatives since brexit. They’re just as bad! No wonder voters are looking at Reform as an alternative.
  • There seem to be quite a few reports floating about of a stitch-up between Putin and Turkey, with him potentially having known about their plans for months.

    If so, maybe the Russians have decided to cut a deal with Turkey, to retain influence through them in thd Middle East.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Is the only alternative to Assad an Islamic fundamentalist government?

    Yes effectively, which is why we must hope Assad retains control around Damascus with Russian and Iranian support and the Kurds keep control of their regions too
    I’m not convinced that Islamic fundamentalists are worse than Putin and his supporters.
    In the Middle East they are, the best outcome though is probably Assad holds onto Damascus with Putin having to keep sending Russian jets and mercenaries to prop him up who would otherwise have gone to the front in Ukraine
    Agreed, but will Putin think it’s worth his while to continue to support Assad?
    Yes as if Assad falls so does Russian influence in the Middle East
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,701
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Is the only alternative to Assad an Islamic fundamentalist government?

    Yes effectively, which is why we must hope Assad retains control around Damascus with Russian and Iranian support and the Kurds keep control of their regions too
    I’m not convinced that Islamic fundamentalists are worse than Putin and his supporters.
    In the Middle East they are, the best outcome though is probably Assad holds onto Damascus with Putin having to keep sending Russian jets and mercenaries to prop him up who would otherwise have gone to the front in Ukraine
    Agreed, but will Putin think it’s worth his while to continue to support Assad?
    Yes as if Assad falls so does Russian influence in the Middle East
    That might not be top of his list of problems right now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207
    edited December 2024

    There seem to be quite a few reports floating about of a stitch-up between Putin and Turkey, with him potentially having known about their plans for months.

    If so, maybe the Russians have decided to cut a deal with Turkey, to retain influence through them in thd Middle East.

    If Damascus falls Erdogan won't be able to control the jihadi Militants who will take over Syria, it would soon become a haven nation for terrorists plotting global jihad
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307

    HYUFD said:


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
    I thought a Labour government would be a breath of fresh air after the incompetence of the Conservatives since brexit. They’re just as bad! No wonder voters are looking at Reform as an alternative.
    Yeah, cos Reform are famous for competent and steady administration.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,752
    edited December 2024
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Killer of diabetics. Convinced his course participants to put themselves in pre-insulin days, when Type I was a death sentence. Ooof. :

    An alternative healer has been jailed for 10 years for the manslaughter of a 71-year-old diabetic woman who stopped taking insulin at his slapping therapy workshop.

    Danielle Carr-Gomm died in October 2016 while taking part in the Paida Lajin therapy event, which sees patients being slapped or slapping themselves repeatedly.

    Hongchi Xiao, of Cloudbreak, California, was convicted by a jury in July at Winchester Crown Court of manslaughter by gross negligence after he failed to get medical help for Ms Carr-Gomm at the event in Wiltshire.

    He was also sentenced to a further five years on extended licence after his time in prison.

    The 61-year-old was extradited for the trial from Australia, where he had previously been prosecuted after a six-year-old boy also died when his parents withdrew his insulin medication after attending the defendant's workshop in Sydney.

    Mr Justice Bright added Xiao will be liable to be deported to America after serving his sentence.
    ...
    Ms Carr-Gomm believed it worked and delivered glowing testimonials, the court previously heard.

    The court heard that Xiao said "well done" to Ms Carr-Gomm, after she told the participants that she had stopped taking her insulin at the week-long retreat.

    By the third day "she was vomiting, tired and weak, and by the evening she was howling in pain and unable to respond to questions", prosecutor Duncan Atkinson KC said.

    Ms Carr-Gomm, who was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes in 1999, was "howling in pain" and "frothing at the mouth" as she became seriously ill before she died on the fourth day of the workshop.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1el71pq2e1o

    I'd be quite interested to hear from @Foxy about his experience of reactions to non-needle based therapies. Lord Drayson developed something called Powderject in the early 1990s, which used a jet of insulin bearing powder to pierce the skin, and insulin pumps have available since the late 1980s (they use a catheter of sorts - now just a PTFE filament).

    Psychological blocks can do strange things, and she could have deemed them to be needles.

    There is also inhaled insulin, but not on the NHS.
    The inventor of the Powderject device, Brian Bellhouse, was one of my engineering lecturers. He must have been working on it at the time (testing on himself).

    I think Lord Drayson was his son-in-law and he took over the business side of it.

    I always wondered what happened to the idea after it was sold (for a very large sum).
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,755

    HYUFD said:


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
    I thought a Labour government would be a breath of fresh air after the incompetence of the Conservatives since brexit. They’re just as bad! No wonder voters are looking at Reform as an alternative.
    You do sort of begin to wonder exactly what insane combination of things puts the Lib Dems into Downing Street.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,624
    When they win, Republicans stop worrying about supposed voter fraud: https://www.npr.org/2024/12/06/nx-s1-5217819/republican-election-confidence-trump-pew-poll
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307
    HYUFD said:

    There seem to be quite a few reports floating about of a stitch-up between Putin and Turkey, with him potentially having known about their plans for months.

    If so, maybe the Russians have decided to cut a deal with Turkey, to retain influence through them in thd Middle East.

    If Damascus falls Erdogan won't be able to control the jihadi Militants who will take over Syria, it would soon become a haven nation for terrorists plotting global jihad
    I think the new government would be preoccupied by internal affairs, and not interested in us.

    It would be a big defeat for Putin and Iran though, and they are our geopolitical enemies at the moment.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    There seem to be quite a few reports floating about of a stitch-up between Putin and Turkey, with him potentially having known about their plans for months.

    If so, maybe the Russians have decided to cut a deal with Turkey, to retain influence through them in thd Middle East.

    If Damascus falls Erdogan won't be able to control the jihadi Militants who will take over Syria, it would soon become a haven nation for terrorists plotting global jihad
    I think the new government would be preoccupied by internal affairs, and not interested in us.

    It would be a big defeat for Putin and Iran though, and they are our geopolitical enemies at the moment.
    The new government would be dominated by former Al Qaeda sympathisers motivated by jihad above all
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    There seem to be quite a few reports floating about of a stitch-up between Putin and Turkey, with him potentially having known about their plans for months.

    If so, maybe the Russians have decided to cut a deal with Turkey, to retain influence through them in thd Middle East.

    If Damascus falls Erdogan won't be able to control the jihadi Militants who will take over Syria, it would soon become a haven nation for terrorists plotting global jihad
    I think the new government would be preoccupied by internal affairs, and not interested in us.

    It would be a big defeat for Putin and Iran though, and they are our geopolitical enemies at the moment.
    The new government would be dominated by former Al Qaeda sympathisers motivated by jihad above all
    That's as maybe. Not a lot different to Saudi etc.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,816
    Evelyn Waugh writing in 1929:
    "I will not say that I did not know any town could be so ugly as the town of Gibraltar; to say that would be to deny many bitter visits in the past to Colwyn Bay, Manchester, and Stratford on Avon".
    I don't know any of these places. Is this fair comment?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,402
    HYUFD said:

    I despise this government

    Somewhat relatedly, I've noticed that Labour being in power has split the remaining diehard Remainers. Those who are dissaffected centre-right voters have started attacking the government for being Labour, and those who are tribally Labour don't like it.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,706
    For Leon and whispering oracle. This is what people are seeing. Planes ordinary planes that they are turning into something else. It's a flap.
    https://x.com/MickWest/status/1865089573652676919
  • eekeek Posts: 28,624
    HYUFD said:


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
    The other option is 3p on income tax - willing to pay a £1000 extra in tax.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
    The other option is 3p on income tax - willing to pay a £1000 extra in tax.
    Or they could slash train drivers pay and cut GPs pay
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,752
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    There seem to be quite a few reports floating about of a stitch-up between Putin and Turkey, with him potentially having known about their plans for months.

    If so, maybe the Russians have decided to cut a deal with Turkey, to retain influence through them in thd Middle East.

    If Damascus falls Erdogan won't be able to control the jihadi Militants who will take over Syria, it would soon become a haven nation for terrorists plotting global jihad
    I think the new government would be preoccupied by internal affairs, and not interested in us.

    It would be a big defeat for Putin and Iran though, and they are our geopolitical enemies at the moment.
    It might create a further wave of refugees / asylum seekers, which won't help European governments.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,692

    There seem to be quite a few reports floating about of a stitch-up between Putin and Turkey, with him potentially having known about their plans for months.

    If so, maybe the Russians have decided to cut a deal with Turkey, to retain influence through them in thd Middle East.

    Doesn't feel plausible. The amount of Russian treasure invested in Assad and his army and to give it away to quasi NATO member with delusions of empire? Seems un-Putin like.

    Apparently... the CMO have captured so much of the SAA's stuff its gonna be hard for the Turks to influence them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    There seem to be quite a few reports floating about of a stitch-up between Putin and Turkey, with him potentially having known about their plans for months.

    If so, maybe the Russians have decided to cut a deal with Turkey, to retain influence through them in thd Middle East.

    If Damascus falls Erdogan won't be able to control the jihadi Militants who will take over Syria, it would soon become a haven nation for terrorists plotting global jihad
    I think the new government would be preoccupied by internal affairs, and not interested in us.

    It would be a big defeat for Putin and Iran though, and they are our geopolitical enemies at the moment.
    The new government would be dominated by former Al Qaeda sympathisers motivated by jihad above all
    That's as maybe. Not a lot different to Saudi etc.
    Worse than Saudi which if the House of Saud fell would equally be controlled by jihadi militants
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,701
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
    The other option is 3p on income tax - willing to pay a £1000 extra in tax.
    Or they could slash train drivers pay and cut GPs pay
    Train drivers are paid by train operating companies. Now some of them are nationalized, but not most.

    And the issue with slashing GPs pay is that we already lose a significant chunk of our doctors to countries which pay more - I suspect this would worsen the issue.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,701

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    There seem to be quite a few reports floating about of a stitch-up between Putin and Turkey, with him potentially having known about their plans for months.

    If so, maybe the Russians have decided to cut a deal with Turkey, to retain influence through them in thd Middle East.

    If Damascus falls Erdogan won't be able to control the jihadi Militants who will take over Syria, it would soon become a haven nation for terrorists plotting global jihad
    I think the new government would be preoccupied by internal affairs, and not interested in us.

    It would be a big defeat for Putin and Iran though, and they are our geopolitical enemies at the moment.
    It might create a further wave of refugees / asylum seekers, which won't help European governments.
    That's very true.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
    The other option is 3p on income tax - willing to pay a £1000 extra in tax.
    Or they could slash train drivers pay and cut GPs pay
    Train drivers are paid by train operating companies. Now some of them are nationalized, but not most.

    And the issue with slashing GPs pay is that we already lose a significant chunk of our doctors to countries which pay more - I suspect this would worsen the issue.
    Other countries have a bigger private healthcare industry which pays more, as it does here
  • eekeek Posts: 28,624
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
    The other option is 3p on income tax - willing to pay a £1000 extra in tax.
    Or they could slash train drivers pay and cut GPs pay
    You've just knocked the income tax increase to 2.9p better find a lot more savings (which don't exist)..
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,701
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    There seem to be quite a few reports floating about of a stitch-up between Putin and Turkey, with him potentially having known about their plans for months.

    If so, maybe the Russians have decided to cut a deal with Turkey, to retain influence through them in thd Middle East.

    If Damascus falls Erdogan won't be able to control the jihadi Militants who will take over Syria, it would soon become a haven nation for terrorists plotting global jihad
    I think the new government would be preoccupied by internal affairs, and not interested in us.

    It would be a big defeat for Putin and Iran though, and they are our geopolitical enemies at the moment.
    The new government would be dominated by former Al Qaeda sympathisers motivated by jihad above all
    That's as maybe. Not a lot different to Saudi etc.
    Worse than Saudi which if the House of Saud fell would equally be controlled by jihadi militants
    Errrr:

    This would be the House of Saud who pay for Wahabi preachers to spread hate in Mosques across the UK and the world? That House of Saud?

    I just want to check that we're not talking about two different House of Sauds.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,070

    HYUFD said:


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
    I thought a Labour government would be a breath of fresh air after the incompetence of the Conservatives since brexit. They’re just as bad! No wonder voters are looking at Reform as an alternative.
    You do sort of begin to wonder exactly what insane combination of things puts the Lib Dems into Downing Street.
    If the Lib Dems gained power and proved to be competent, they could be in charge for years!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    There seem to be quite a few reports floating about of a stitch-up between Putin and Turkey, with him potentially having known about their plans for months.

    If so, maybe the Russians have decided to cut a deal with Turkey, to retain influence through them in thd Middle East.

    If Damascus falls Erdogan won't be able to control the jihadi Militants who will take over Syria, it would soon become a haven nation for terrorists plotting global jihad
    I think the new government would be preoccupied by internal affairs, and not interested in us.

    It would be a big defeat for Putin and Iran though, and they are our geopolitical enemies at the moment.
    The new government would be dominated by former Al Qaeda sympathisers motivated by jihad above all
    That's as maybe. Not a lot different to Saudi etc.
    Worse than Saudi which if the House of Saud fell would equally be controlled by jihadi militants
    Errrr:

    This would be the House of Saud who pay for Wahabi preachers to spread hate in Mosques across the UK and the world? That House of Saud?

    I just want to check that we're not talking about two different House of Sauds.
    A few preachers, if Saud fell terrorists would be running the whole country and exporting terrorist jihad abroad every week
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,357
    edited December 2024

    Evelyn Waugh writing in 1929:
    "I will not say that I did not know any town could be so ugly as the town of Gibraltar; to say that would be to deny many bitter visits in the past to Colwyn Bay, Manchester, and Stratford on Avon".
    I don't know any of these places. Is this fair comment?

    Gibraltar is coloured for me by the worst hotel I ever stayed at - we over cheapened from a backpackers book and ended up in Fanny Segovia's guest house, in a unsavourily damp room with no windows and the constant distant sound of a Moroccan maid being verbally abused in a way that would make Basil Fawlty blanche.

    And the whole town smelled of cheap gin shops and the 1950s.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,402
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    There seem to be quite a few reports floating about of a stitch-up between Putin and Turkey, with him potentially having known about their plans for months.

    If so, maybe the Russians have decided to cut a deal with Turkey, to retain influence through them in thd Middle East.

    If Damascus falls Erdogan won't be able to control the jihadi Militants who will take over Syria, it would soon become a haven nation for terrorists plotting global jihad
    I think the new government would be preoccupied by internal affairs, and not interested in us.

    It would be a big defeat for Putin and Iran though, and they are our geopolitical enemies at the moment.
    The new government would be dominated by former Al Qaeda sympathisers motivated by jihad above all
    That's as maybe. Not a lot different to Saudi etc.
    Worse than Saudi which if the House of Saud fell would equally be controlled by jihadi militants
    Errrr:

    This would be the House of Saud who pay for Wahabi preachers to spread hate in Mosques across the UK and the world? That House of Saud?

    I just want to check that we're not talking about two different House of Sauds.
    Saudi Arabia under MBS is rapidly transforming.

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/trending/riyadh-season-jennifer-lopez-performance-set-design-spark-controversy
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,902
    edited December 2024

    Evelyn Waugh writing in 1929:
    "I will not say that I did not know any town could be so ugly as the town of Gibraltar; to say that would be to deny many bitter visits in the past to Colwyn Bay, Manchester, and Stratford on Avon".
    I don't know any of these places. Is this fair comment?

    Old town gib is quite pretty. Whether it was then, of course, I don't know. It would have been very much a military town then.

    Stratford is pretty now, at least in the middle. It was probably fine then too.

    An odd list...

    (Just learned from wikipedia that whilst it's Stratford Upon Avon, the district is Stratford on Avon. Perhaps the town was so-named back then: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratford-on-Avon_District )
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
    The other option is 3p on income tax - willing to pay a £1000 extra in tax.
    Or they could slash train drivers pay and cut GPs pay
    You've just knocked the income tax increase to 2.9p better find a lot more savings (which don't exist)..
    In your ideological view, there is much overspend in the NHS that could be cut back too and more use made of private health insurance
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207

    HYUFD said:


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
    I thought a Labour government would be a breath of fresh air after the incompetence of the Conservatives since brexit. They’re just as bad! No wonder voters are looking at Reform as an alternative.
    You do sort of begin to wonder exactly what insane combination of things puts the Lib Dems into Downing Street.
    If the Lib Dems gained power and proved to be competent, they could be in charge for years!
    They already have been in power for 5 years just a decade ago and were rewarded by the loss of 90% of their seats at the 2015 GE
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,070
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
    The other option is 3p on income tax - willing to pay a £1000 extra in tax.
    Or they could slash train drivers pay and cut GPs pay
    Given the staff shortages of both train drivers and GPs, that doesn’t seem a good idea.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    This is MY commute, at least today

    Across the waterlands of the Momposino. The birdlife is FERVENT




  • Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,603

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    There seem to be quite a few reports floating about of a stitch-up between Putin and Turkey, with him potentially having known about their plans for months.

    If so, maybe the Russians have decided to cut a deal with Turkey, to retain influence through them in thd Middle East.

    If Damascus falls Erdogan won't be able to control the jihadi Militants who will take over Syria, it would soon become a haven nation for terrorists plotting global jihad
    I think the new government would be preoccupied by internal affairs, and not interested in us.

    It would be a big defeat for Putin and Iran though, and they are our geopolitical enemies at the moment.
    The new government would be dominated by former Al Qaeda sympathisers motivated by jihad above all
    That's as maybe. Not a lot different to Saudi etc.
    Worse than Saudi which if the House of Saud fell would equally be controlled by jihadi militants
    Errrr:

    This would be the House of Saud who pay for Wahabi preachers to spread hate in Mosques across the UK and the world? That House of Saud?

    I just want to check that we're not talking about two different House of Sauds.
    Saudi Arabia under MBS is rapidly transforming.

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/trending/riyadh-season-jennifer-lopez-performance-set-design-spark-controversy
    Modern autocrats are more flexible on ideology, whilst being no less reprehensible.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,902

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    Salaried GP: £73,114–£110,330

    I.e twice the median salary to three times the median salary. Not hedge fund money, but not sod all.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207
    edited December 2024

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,706

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    You think GPs earn sod all? Really? Not the received opinion, tbh.
  • Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    You think GPs earn sod all? Really? Not the received opinion, tbh.
    What does a GP earn in another country?

    You’d like to cut their pay and have even more leave?
  • HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,603

    There seem to be quite a few reports floating about of a stitch-up between Putin and Turkey, with him potentially having known about their plans for months.

    If so, maybe the Russians have decided to cut a deal with Turkey, to retain influence through them in thd Middle East.

    Doesn't feel plausible. The amount of Russian treasure invested in Assad and his army and to give it away to quasi NATO member with delusions of empire? Seems un-Putin like.

    Apparently... the CMO have captured so much of the SAA's stuff its gonna be hard for the Turks to influence them.
    Could just be the not uncommon attribution of extreme competence to Putin or other opponents of the West (his reputation for competence has taken a hit after Ukraine however), so that when things go badly for him there is a suspicion he is playing 4D chess. I know people who think the Russians couldn't be behind the Novichok incident, precisely because the target did not die.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,706

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    You think GPs earn sod all? Really? Not the received opinion, tbh.
    What does a GP earn in another country?

    You’d like to cut their pay and have even more leave?
    I don't want to cut their pay, just challenging the assertion that they earn sod all.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207
    edited December 2024

    HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    Why on earth should taxpayers pay a junior doctor starting out £100k a year? If you did that salaried GPs would end up on £500k a year.

    The average civil servant also earns more than the average worker, you could of course axe half of them and then increase their pay even further but I suspect most of them wouldn't support that
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,457
    edited December 2024
    carnforth said:

    Evelyn Waugh writing in 1929:
    "I will not say that I did not know any town could be so ugly as the town of Gibraltar; to say that would be to deny many bitter visits in the past to Colwyn Bay, Manchester, and Stratford on Avon".
    I don't know any of these places. Is this fair comment?

    Old town gib is quite pretty. Whether it was then, of course, I don't know. It would have been very much a military town then.

    Stratford is pretty now, at least in the middle. It was probably fine then too.

    An odd list...

    (Just learned from wikipedia that whilst it's Stratford Upon Avon, the district is Stratford on Avon. Perhaps the town was so-named back then: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratford-on-Avon_District )
    Waugh was a terrific old snob, so probably not to be taken too seriously in his judgments of place.
    Though having worked in Wales and Stratford was certainly qualified to comment.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,745
    edited December 2024
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
    The other option is 3p on income tax - willing to pay a £1000 extra in tax.
    Or they could slash train drivers pay and cut GPs pay
    You've just knocked the income tax increase to 2.9p better find a lot more savings (which don't exist)..
    In your ideological view, there is much overspend in the NHS that could be cut back too and more use made of private health insurance
    You are not addressing the real problem that income tax needs to rise and NI reduce for everyone in work

    Additionally the triple lock is unsustainable as Stride honestly said, and by the next election it needs to go and be replaced with inflation plus 1 or 2%

    Plus corporation tax needs to come down to 20% or less

    Where I have an issue with Labour is the awards to doctors, and especially train drivers, were unconditional and should have had improved productivity as a condition

    Higher council tax bands are needed plus an increase in fuel duty and some form of wealth tax

    Now, you will not agree at all but change has to come and it starts with honesty, not a Ming vase strategy

  • Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Tommy Robinson has told his followers to BACK Reform UK.

    He has also officially invited Reform UK to speak at a ‘super-event’ which is planned for when he’s released from prison, reports
    @ThorpeWatch'

    https://x.com/Inevitablewest/status/1864996368667771037

    They won't want to be associated with him, rightly so.
    Farage will vanish to Trumps protection in the US faster than it takes to blink

    Robinson and his mob are Farage worst nightmare.

  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    Why on earth should taxpayers pay a junior doctor starting out £100k a year? If you did that salaried GPs would end up on £500k a year
    We’d get much better people if these kinds of roles paid more.

    As another example, in the Civil Service I’d have a software engineering role at £100K a year or more, that’s more in line with the private sector.

    Same for politicians, I would pay them a lot more.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,603

    When they win, Republicans stop worrying about supposed voter fraud: https://www.npr.org/2024/12/06/nx-s1-5217819/republican-election-confidence-trump-pew-poll

    Trump told people in the GOP primaries more than 8 years ago that he used to complain about things being rigged, then stopped because he won. He has never changed that approach, the only surprise would be how many of the GOP base genuinely believed it, and yet simultaneously would flip their view just as genuinely when the outcome is favourable.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,603
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Is the only alternative to Assad an Islamic fundamentalist government?

    Yes effectively, which is why we must hope Assad retains control around Damascus with Russian and Iranian support and the Kurds keep control of their regions too
    The Russians are gone...
    'Russia to send mercenaries to Syria to reinforce its troops, Ukrainian intelligence claims'

    https://kyivindependent.com/russia-syria-mercenaries/

    'Mercenaries'.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207
    edited December 2024

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    Why on earth should taxpayers pay a junior doctor starting out £100k a year? If you did that salaried GPs would end up on £500k a year
    We’d get much better people if these kinds of roles paid more.

    As another example, in the Civil Service I’d have a software engineering role at £100K a year or more, that’s more in line with the private sector.

    Same for politicians, I would pay them a lot more.
    Taxpayers should not be forking out a fortune for public servants, if they want to earn top dollar they can go into the private sector and face the full pressures of the free market and try and get to the top of the tree there and earn it
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,603
    MattW said:

    Killer of diabetics. Convinced his course participants to put themselves in pre-insulin days, when Type I was a death sentence. Ooof. :

    An alternative healer has been jailed for 10 years for the manslaughter of a 71-year-old diabetic woman who stopped taking insulin at his slapping therapy workshop.

    Danielle Carr-Gomm died in October 2016 while taking part in the Paida Lajin therapy event, which sees patients being slapped or slapping themselves repeatedly.

    Hongchi Xiao, of Cloudbreak, California, was convicted by a jury in July at Winchester Crown Court of manslaughter by gross negligence after he failed to get medical help for Ms Carr-Gomm at the event in Wiltshire.

    He was also sentenced to a further five years on extended licence after his time in prison.

    The 61-year-old was extradited for the trial from Australia, where he had previously been prosecuted after a six-year-old boy also died when his parents withdrew his insulin medication after attending the defendant's workshop in Sydney.

    Mr Justice Bright added Xiao will be liable to be deported to America after serving his sentence.
    ...
    Ms Carr-Gomm believed it worked and delivered glowing testimonials, the court previously heard.

    The court heard that Xiao said "well done" to Ms Carr-Gomm, after she told the participants that she had stopped taking her insulin at the week-long retreat.

    By the third day "she was vomiting, tired and weak, and by the evening she was howling in pain and unable to respond to questions", prosecutor Duncan Atkinson KC said.

    Ms Carr-Gomm, who was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes in 1999, was "howling in pain" and "frothing at the mouth" as she became seriously ill before she died on the fourth day of the workshop.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1el71pq2e1o

    Some fraudsters kill, it can be easy to forget that.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    Why on earth should taxpayers pay a junior doctor starting out £100k a year? If you did that salaried GPs would end up on £500k a year.

    The average civil servant also earns more than the average worker, you could of course axe half of them and then increase their pay even further but I suspect most of them wouldn't support that
    Where on earth do you get a junior doctors starting salary at £100,000 - nobody is suggesting that
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,706

    HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    You have no idea. No clue. Why should a junior doctor just put if training earn that much? In the NHS pay increments on a regular basis. That's why starting salaries are used by the unions, as the reality is different after a few years. And no doubt doctors get better with experience. We all do. We have consistently failed to train enough doctors in the UK for a number of reasons. Firstly training them needs training places and that means doctors in hospitals. It's not just uni places. And the doctors have always been careful to keep numbers down too, after all keep supply down keeps the wages high. And no doubt there is an attraction to moving overseas to Aussie or NZ for instance, but higher salaries aren't everything. Taxes, pensions etc are different. So its not as simple as just paying doctors more.
  • If we want to solve the problems of the future around AI and so on, we need the best people from the private sector to work for the Civil Service.

    So pay them significantly more than they do now and you’d get the people currently going to TikTok.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,099
    viewcode said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Very off-topic, and no idea why it's come back to mind tonight as something I'll rewatch over Christmas.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Glittering_Prizes

    "The Glittering Prizes is a British television drama by Frederic Raphael about the changing lives of a group of Cambridge students, starting in 1952 and following them through to middle age in the 1970s. It was first broadcast on BBC2 in January 1976".

    I seem to remember (maybe episode 4?) that there was a quite striking bit of dialogue with Tom Conti.

    Clive James's review of it was excoriating. His review pointed out that Raphael had clambered so far up his own arse he was looking out of his own neck. Only he used different words than that, and more of them, but that was the gist.
    I have a great deal of respect of Clive James (RIP), but... I enjoyed it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,603
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    Why on earth should taxpayers pay a junior doctor starting out £100k a year? If you did that salaried GPs would end up on £500k a year
    We’d get much better people if these kinds of roles paid more.

    As another example, in the Civil Service I’d have a software engineering role at £100K a year or more, that’s more in line with the private sector.

    Same for politicians, I would pay them a lot more.
    Taxpayers should not be forking out a fortune for public servants, if they want to earn top dollar they can go into the private sector and face the full pressures of the free market and try and get to the top of the tree there and earn it
    Problem is you just don't get enough people to do sometimes vital jobs otherwise. It's all very well telling them to bugger off, and you can manage that for quite some time, but in specialist roles you will eventually end up with not enough people who are do it, especially in things like councils where they compete with one another for limited pools of social workers etc.
  • HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    You have no idea. No clue. Why should a junior doctor just put if training earn that much? In the NHS pay increments on a regular basis. That's why starting salaries are used by the unions, as the reality is different after a few years. And no doubt doctors get better with experience. We all do. We have consistently failed to train enough doctors in the UK for a number of reasons. Firstly training them needs training places and that means doctors in hospitals. It's not just uni places. And the doctors have always been careful to keep numbers down too, after all keep supply down keeps the wages high. And no doubt there is an attraction to moving overseas to Aussie or NZ for instance, but higher salaries aren't everything. Taxes, pensions etc are different. So its not as simple as just paying doctors more.
    I have a clue thank you, as friends have recently emigrated because the salaries in the NHS are so awful. They get far more abroad.

    If we’d have paid them more, they’d have stayed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
    The other option is 3p on income tax - willing to pay a £1000 extra in tax.
    Or they could slash train drivers pay and cut GPs pay
    You've just knocked the income tax increase to 2.9p better find a lot more savings (which don't exist)..
    In your ideological view, there is much overspend in the NHS that could be cut back too and more use made of private health insurance
    Your are not addressing the real problem that income tax needs to rise and NI reduce for everyone in work

    Additionally the triple lock is unsustainable as Stride honestly said, and by the next election it needs to go and be replaced with inflation plus 1 or 2%

    Plus corporation tax needs to come down to 20% or less

    Where I have an issue with Labour is the awards to doctors, and especially train drivers, were unconditional and should have had improved productivity as a condition

    Higher council tax bands are needed plus an increase in fuel duty and some form of wealth tax

    Now, you will not agree at all but change has to come and it starts with honesty, not a Ming vase strategy

    No it doesn't, NI should be ringfenced for contributory unemployment benefits and state pension as intended and some social care.

    The Tories would commit politicial suicide if they scrapped the triple lock, then lost their pensioner core vote to the LDs and Reform as a result. Corporations are hardly the first target for tax cuts.

    No we dont't need a wealth tax either and council tax is the responsibility of local authorities
  • The iPhone 12 truly is horrible to use these days. I’ve borrowed one for a weekend whilst my daily driver is MIA and it is painful to use. Not sure how people stand it.

    Good evening.
  • Pro_Rata said:

    Evelyn Waugh writing in 1929:
    "I will not say that I did not know any town could be so ugly as the town of Gibraltar; to say that would be to deny many bitter visits in the past to Colwyn Bay, Manchester, and Stratford on Avon".
    I don't know any of these places. Is this fair comment?

    Gibraltar is coloured for me by the worst hotel I ever stayed at - we over cheapened from a backpackers book and ended up in Fanny Segovia's guest house, in a unsavourily damp room with no windows and the constant distant sound of a Moroccan maid being verbally abused in a way that would make Basil Fawlty blanche.

    And the whole town smelled of cheap gin shops and the 1950s.
    I stayed at the Bristol, which is OK in an old-fashioned way. And while Gib is fascinating, I wouldn't call it pretty
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207

    HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    You have no idea. No clue. Why should a junior doctor just put if training earn that much? In the NHS pay increments on a regular basis. That's why starting salaries are used by the unions, as the reality is different after a few years. And no doubt doctors get better with experience. We all do. We have consistently failed to train enough doctors in the UK for a number of reasons. Firstly training them needs training places and that means doctors in hospitals. It's not just uni places. And the doctors have always been careful to keep numbers down too, after all keep supply down keeps the wages high. And no doubt there is an attraction to moving overseas to Aussie or NZ for instance, but higher salaries aren't everything. Taxes, pensions etc are different. So its not as simple as just paying doctors more.
    I have a clue thank you, as friends have recently emigrated because the salaries in the NHS are so awful. They get far more abroad.

    If we’d have paid them more, they’d have stayed.
    Or just fund healthcare more by insurance as most OECD nations do and less by taxes
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,457
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    There seem to be quite a few reports floating about of a stitch-up between Putin and Turkey, with him potentially having known about their plans for months.

    If so, maybe the Russians have decided to cut a deal with Turkey, to retain influence through them in thd Middle East.

    If Damascus falls Erdogan won't be able to control the jihadi Militants who will take over Syria, it would soon become a haven nation for terrorists plotting global jihad
    I think the new government would be preoccupied by internal affairs, and not interested in us.

    It would be a big defeat for Putin and Iran though, and they are our geopolitical enemies at the moment.
    The new government would be dominated by former Al Qaeda sympathisers motivated by jihad above all
    You do talk some utter tosh on occasion.

    Assad is not only a grotesquely brutal dictator, he’s also an incompetent unable even to keep the order his similarly brutal father managed.

    Under his rule a fifth of the country’s population became refugees overseas; another fifth at least internally displaced; hundreds of thousands died - and Syria hosted an actual islamic terrorist state of precisely the kind you fear.

    And no one, least of all yourself, really knows who might dominate whatever government succeeds him. It’s equally likely to be an improvement as it is something worse.
    And it’s going to happen whatever your opinion.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    Why on earth should taxpayers pay a junior doctor starting out £100k a year? If you did that salaried GPs would end up on £500k a year
    We’d get much better people if these kinds of roles paid more.

    As another example, in the Civil Service I’d have a software engineering role at £100K a year or more, that’s more in line with the private sector.

    Same for politicians, I would pay them a lot more.
    Taxpayers should not be forking out a fortune for public servants, if they want to earn top dollar they can go into the private sector and face the full pressures of the free market and try and get to the top of the tree there and earn it
    Problem is you just don't get enough people to do sometimes vital jobs otherwise. It's all very well telling them to bugger off, and you can manage that for quite some time, but in specialist roles you will eventually end up with not enough people who are do it, especially in things like councils where they compete with one another for limited pools of social workers etc.
    The average public sector worker still earns more than the average private sector worker
  • HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    You have no idea. No clue. Why should a junior doctor just put if training earn that much? In the NHS pay increments on a regular basis. That's why starting salaries are used by the unions, as the reality is different after a few years. And no doubt doctors get better with experience. We all do. We have consistently failed to train enough doctors in the UK for a number of reasons. Firstly training them needs training places and that means doctors in hospitals. It's not just uni places. And the doctors have always been careful to keep numbers down too, after all keep supply down keeps the wages high. And no doubt there is an attraction to moving overseas to Aussie or NZ for instance, but higher salaries aren't everything. Taxes, pensions etc are different. So its not as simple as just paying doctors more.
    I have a clue thank you, as friends have recently emigrated because the salaries in the NHS are so awful. They get far more abroad.

    If we’d have paid them more, they’d have stayed.
    I have been to Australia several times and it is good and interesting to holiday in but living there is something very different and certainly not as idyllic as some would have you believe
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    Why on earth should taxpayers pay a junior doctor starting out £100k a year? If you did that salaried GPs would end up on £500k a year.

    The average civil servant also earns more than the average worker, you could of course axe half of them and then increase their pay even further but I suspect most of them wouldn't support that
    Where on earth do you get a junior doctors starting salary at £100,000 - nobody is suggesting that
    Horse just did
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,073
    My daughter has just been told by a ST journalist that her best friend from her year abroad died of methanol poisoning in Laos. They are clearly contacting the deceased’s facebook friends.

    I really don’t think I could do that job.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,603
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
    The other option is 3p on income tax - willing to pay a £1000 extra in tax.
    Or they could slash train drivers pay and cut GPs pay
    Train drivers are paid by train operating companies. Now some of them are nationalized, but not most.

    And the issue with slashing GPs pay is that we already lose a significant chunk of our doctors to countries which pay more - I suspect this would worsen the issue.
    It's easy to find examples of what seems like exorbitant pay, I know I've moaned about people in all sorts of roles, but it is incumbent on any complainer to explain what the 'right' pay should therefore be, otherwise its a meaningless moan, since we don't know if 5/10/50% less is 'correct'.

    Start off easy, asking for the proper rate for a DEI consultant or something, then work up to senior civil servant, GP, or bicycle repairmen or whatever.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,706

    HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    You have no idea. No clue. Why should a junior doctor just put if training earn that much? In the NHS pay increments on a regular basis. That's why starting salaries are used by the unions, as the reality is different after a few years. And no doubt doctors get better with experience. We all do. We have consistently failed to train enough doctors in the UK for a number of reasons. Firstly training them needs training places and that means doctors in hospitals. It's not just uni places. And the doctors have always been careful to keep numbers down too, after all keep supply down keeps the wages high. And no doubt there is an attraction to moving overseas to Aussie or NZ for instance, but higher salaries aren't everything. Taxes, pensions etc are different. So its not as simple as just paying doctors more.
    I have a clue thank you, as friends have recently emigrated because the salaries in the NHS are so awful. They get far more abroad.

    If we’d have paid them more, they’d have stayed.
    It's not just pay though is it? Moving overseas means a different pension and tax system. And for sure working in the NHS right now can be pretty shit. But the answer isn't a ridiculous 300 percent jump in junior doctors starting salary, it's sorting out the NHS. That's fixing infrastructure, getting staffing levels up and all the basics. The Tories have proven over the years that they cannot be trusted to do these basics. But the answer isn't just more pay
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
    The other option is 3p on income tax - willing to pay a £1000 extra in tax.
    Or they could slash train drivers pay and cut GPs pay
    You've just knocked the income tax increase to 2.9p better find a lot more savings (which don't exist)..
    In your ideological view, there is much overspend in the NHS that could be cut back too and more use made of private health insurance
    Your are not addressing the real problem that income tax needs to rise and NI reduce for everyone in work

    Additionally the triple lock is unsustainable as Stride honestly said, and by the next election it needs to go and be replaced with inflation plus 1 or 2%

    Plus corporation tax needs to come down to 20% or less

    Where I have an issue with Labour is the awards to doctors, and especially train drivers, were unconditional and should have had improved productivity as a condition

    Higher council tax bands are needed plus an increase in fuel duty and some form of wealth tax

    Now, you will not agree at all but change has to come and it starts with honesty, not a Ming vase strategy

    No it doesn't, NI should be ringfenced for contributory unemployment benefits and state pension as intended and some social care.

    The Tories would commit politicial suicide if they scrapped the triple lock, then lost their pensioner core vote to the LDs and Reform as a result. Corporations are hardly the first target for tax cuts.

    No we dont't need a wealth tax either and council tax is the responsibility of local authorities
    Council tax bands don't go high enough. If you own a £2,000,000 house you should pay ten times as much as someone who owns a £200,000 flat.

    I don't believe in progressive tax, but I do believe rich people should pay at least the same proportion as poor people.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,545
    edited December 2024

    HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    You have no idea. No clue. Why should a junior doctor just put if training earn that much? In the NHS pay increments on a regular basis. That's why starting salaries are used by the unions, as the reality is different after a few years. And no doubt doctors get better with experience. We all do. We have consistently failed to train enough doctors in the UK for a number of reasons. Firstly training them needs training places and that means doctors in hospitals. It's not just uni places. And the doctors have always been careful to keep numbers down too, after all keep supply down keeps the wages high. And no doubt there is an attraction to moving overseas to Aussie or NZ for instance, but higher salaries aren't everything. Taxes, pensions etc are different. So its not as simple as just paying doctors more.
    I have a clue thank you, as friends have recently emigrated because the salaries in the NHS are so awful. They get far more abroad.

    If we’d have paid them more, they’d have stayed.
    It's not just pay though is it? Moving overseas means a different pension and tax system. And for sure working in the NHS right now can be pretty shit. But the answer isn't a ridiculous 300 percent jump in junior doctors starting salary, it's sorting out the NHS. That's fixing infrastructure, getting staffing levels up and all the basics. The Tories have proven over the years that they cannot be trusted to do these basics. But the answer isn't just more pay
    Funding is up 20% in real terms and staffing is up 25% in 5 years....productivity is through the floor.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    10m
    MAIL: Reeves: we can’t boost UK defence without making cuts #TomorrowsPapersToday

    I despise this government
    The other option is 3p on income tax - willing to pay a £1000 extra in tax.
    Or they could slash train drivers pay and cut GPs pay
    You've just knocked the income tax increase to 2.9p better find a lot more savings (which don't exist)..
    In your ideological view, there is much overspend in the NHS that could be cut back too and more use made of private health insurance
    Your are not addressing the real problem that income tax needs to rise and NI reduce for everyone in work

    Additionally the triple lock is unsustainable as Stride honestly said, and by the next election it needs to go and be replaced with inflation plus 1 or 2%

    Plus corporation tax needs to come down to 20% or less

    Where I have an issue with Labour is the awards to doctors, and especially train drivers, were unconditional and should have had improved productivity as a condition

    Higher council tax bands are needed plus an increase in fuel duty and some form of wealth tax

    Now, you will not agree at all but change has to come and it starts with honesty, not a Ming vase strategy

    No it doesn't, NI should be ringfenced for contributory unemployment benefits and state pension as intended and some social care.

    The Tories would commit politicial suicide if they scrapped the triple lock, then lost their pensioner core vote to the LDs and Reform as a result. Corporations are hardly the first target for tax cuts.

    No we dont't need a wealth tax either and council tax is the responsibility of local authorities
    Predictable response

    It is good politics for Stride to raise it now for 2029 as by that time no party will be able to afford it

    Indeed it is highly likely the pension age will have to rise to 70 in the next few years
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,706

    HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    You have no idea. No clue. Why should a junior doctor just put if training earn that much? In the NHS pay increments on a regular basis. That's why starting salaries are used by the unions, as the reality is different after a few years. And no doubt doctors get better with experience. We all do. We have consistently failed to train enough doctors in the UK for a number of reasons. Firstly training them needs training places and that means doctors in hospitals. It's not just uni places. And the doctors have always been careful to keep numbers down too, after all keep supply down keeps the wages high. And no doubt there is an attraction to moving overseas to Aussie or NZ for instance, but higher salaries aren't everything. Taxes, pensions etc are different. So its not as simple as just paying doctors more.
    I have a clue thank you, as friends have recently emigrated because the salaries in the NHS are so awful. They get far more abroad.

    If we’d have paid them more, they’d have stayed.
    It's not just pay though is it? Moving overseas means a different pension and tax system. And for sure working in the NHS right now can be pretty shit. But the answer isn't a ridiculous 300 percent jump in junior doctors starting salary, it's sorting out the NHS. That's fixing infrastructure, getting staffing levels up and all the basics. The Tories have proven over the years that they cannot be trusted to do these basics. But the answer isn't just more pay
    Funding is up 20% in real terms and staffing is up 25% in 5 years....productivity is through the floor.
    How is productivity measured in health contexts? Acts of kindness by the extra nurse who has time now won't show up.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,991
    HYUFD said:

    There seem to be quite a few reports floating about of a stitch-up between Putin and Turkey, with him potentially having known about their plans for months.

    If so, maybe the Russians have decided to cut a deal with Turkey, to retain influence through them in thd Middle East.

    If Damascus falls Erdogan won't be able to control the jihadi Militants who will take over Syria, it would soon become a haven nation for terrorists plotting global jihad
    Turkey's main motivation might be to have a freer hand to take on the Kurds in Syria. They might not share your prioritisation of fighting against global jihad.

    This may prove to be a mistake for them, but countries frequently make mistakes.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,545
    edited December 2024

    HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    You have no idea. No clue. Why should a junior doctor just put if training earn that much? In the NHS pay increments on a regular basis. That's why starting salaries are used by the unions, as the reality is different after a few years. And no doubt doctors get better with experience. We all do. We have consistently failed to train enough doctors in the UK for a number of reasons. Firstly training them needs training places and that means doctors in hospitals. It's not just uni places. And the doctors have always been careful to keep numbers down too, after all keep supply down keeps the wages high. And no doubt there is an attraction to moving overseas to Aussie or NZ for instance, but higher salaries aren't everything. Taxes, pensions etc are different. So its not as simple as just paying doctors more.
    I have a clue thank you, as friends have recently emigrated because the salaries in the NHS are so awful. They get far more abroad.

    If we’d have paid them more, they’d have stayed.
    It's not just pay though is it? Moving overseas means a different pension and tax system. And for sure working in the NHS right now can be pretty shit. But the answer isn't a ridiculous 300 percent jump in junior doctors starting salary, it's sorting out the NHS. That's fixing infrastructure, getting staffing levels up and all the basics. The Tories have proven over the years that they cannot be trusted to do these basics. But the answer isn't just more pay
    Funding is up 20% in real terms and staffing is up 25% in 5 years....productivity is through the floor.
    How is productivity measured in health contexts? Acts of kindness by the extra nurse who has time now won't show up.
    Things like appointment, treatments started etc. They haven't increased despite all the extra money and staff.

    One has to hope that Streeting / Milburn is going to be better at driving improvements in these things (as they have talked about already), otherwise it will be more money down the blackhole. The most concerning is the fact the government front loaded this extra money in first 2 years, rather than trying to get better productivity / procedures as they increase the flow of money.

    Use it or lose it is already an issue in public sector, the government strategy has potential to super charge that as they go spending all this extra money ASAP rather than lose it in 2 years time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,603
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    Why on earth should taxpayers pay a junior doctor starting out £100k a year? If you did that salaried GPs would end up on £500k a year
    We’d get much better people if these kinds of roles paid more.

    As another example, in the Civil Service I’d have a software engineering role at £100K a year or more, that’s more in line with the private sector.

    Same for politicians, I would pay them a lot more.
    Taxpayers should not be forking out a fortune for public servants, if they want to earn top dollar they can go into the private sector and face the full pressures of the free market and try and get to the top of the tree there and earn it
    Problem is you just don't get enough people to do sometimes vital jobs otherwise. It's all very well telling them to bugger off, and you can manage that for quite some time, but in specialist roles you will eventually end up with not enough people who are do it, especially in things like councils where they compete with one another for limited pools of social workers etc.
    The average public sector worker still earns more than the average private sector worker
    A masterful sidestepping of my point which was about specialist roles with limited pools of potential workers.

    It may be so the average public sector worker is reasonably well remunerated compared to the private sector, I don't know and I'm not sure if you are comparing like for like, but your stated position was a basic one about taxpayers should not fork out a fortune. I don't disagree, as a general rule, but the point was there are situations where a fortune may need to be forked out, even if that is not the case generally, so it is more complex than just declaring no big money for public servants.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,402
    https://x.com/jeremywarneruk/status/1865095286130880775

    Now there's a surprise. "It turns out the apparent rise in Britain’s illness-related inactivity is not about deteriorating health, but about incentives within the benefit system".
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,099
    DavidL said:

    My daughter has just been told by a ST journalist that her best friend from her year abroad died of methanol poisoning in Laos. They are clearly contacting the deceased’s facebook friends.

    I really don’t think I could do that job.

    Jeeeeeez. So sorry. I hope your daughter comes through ok. It's tough news for we 'oldies' to lose a friend - but when you're young...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,706

    HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    You have no idea. No clue. Why should a junior doctor just put if training earn that much? In the NHS pay increments on a regular basis. That's why starting salaries are used by the unions, as the reality is different after a few years. And no doubt doctors get better with experience. We all do. We have consistently failed to train enough doctors in the UK for a number of reasons. Firstly training them needs training places and that means doctors in hospitals. It's not just uni places. And the doctors have always been careful to keep numbers down too, after all keep supply down keeps the wages high. And no doubt there is an attraction to moving overseas to Aussie or NZ for instance, but higher salaries aren't everything. Taxes, pensions etc are different. So its not as simple as just paying doctors more.
    I have a clue thank you, as friends have recently emigrated because the salaries in the NHS are so awful. They get far more abroad.

    If we’d have paid them more, they’d have stayed.
    It's not just pay though is it? Moving overseas means a different pension and tax system. And for sure working in the NHS right now can be pretty shit. But the answer isn't a ridiculous 300 percent jump in junior doctors starting salary, it's sorting out the NHS. That's fixing infrastructure, getting staffing levels up and all the basics. The Tories have proven over the years that they cannot be trusted to do these basics. But the answer isn't just more pay
    Funding is up 20% in real terms and staffing is up 25% in 5 years....productivity is through the floor.
    How is productivity measured in health contexts? Acts of kindness by the extra nurse who has time now won't show up.
    Things like appointment, treatments started etc. They haven't increased despite all the extra money and staff.
    That's not everything though, is it? When I've had treatment it's the smaller things that make a difference. Someone taking the time with a stressed or upset patient.
  • HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    Why on earth should taxpayers pay a junior doctor starting out £100k a year? If you did that salaried GPs would end up on £500k a year
    We’d get much better people if these kinds of roles paid more.

    As another example, in the Civil Service I’d have a software engineering role at £100K a year or more, that’s more in line with the private sector.

    Same for politicians, I would pay them a lot more.
    Taxpayers should not be forking out a fortune for public servants, if they want to earn top dollar they can go into the private sector and face the full pressures of the free market and try and get to the top of the tree there and earn it
    Problem is you just don't get enough people to do sometimes vital jobs otherwise. It's all very well telling them to bugger off, and you can manage that for quite some time, but in specialist roles you will eventually end up with not enough people who are do it, especially in things like councils where they compete with one another for limited pools of social workers etc.
    The average public sector worker still earns more than the average private sector worker
    Source please
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,457
    The real danger isn’t what replaces Assad; it’s the resurgence ISIS.

    As the #HTS/opposition advance continues in western #Syria, #Assad's regime has withdrawn all its core forces from the central desert.

    There, #ISIS stands to reap huge rewards, as it's already deep within a major resurgence

    https://x.com/Charles_Lister/status/1864739864484217243
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    There seem to be quite a few reports floating about of a stitch-up between Putin and Turkey, with him potentially having known about their plans for months.

    If so, maybe the Russians have decided to cut a deal with Turkey, to retain influence through them in thd Middle East.

    If Damascus falls Erdogan won't be able to control the jihadi Militants who will take over Syria, it would soon become a haven nation for terrorists plotting global jihad
    I think the new government would be preoccupied by internal affairs, and not interested in us.

    It would be a big defeat for Putin and Iran though, and they are our geopolitical enemies at the moment.
    The new government would be dominated by former Al Qaeda sympathisers motivated by jihad above all
    You do talk some utter tosh on occasion.

    Assad is not only a grotesquely brutal dictator, he’s also an incompetent unable even to keep the order his similarly brutal father managed.

    Under his rule a fifth of the country’s population became refugees overseas; another fifth at least internally displaced; hundreds of thousands died - and Syria hosted an actual islamic terrorist state of precisely the kind you fear.

    And no one, least of all yourself, really knows who might dominate whatever government succeeds him. It’s equally likely to be an improvement as it is something worse.
    And it’s going to happen whatever your opinion.
    No it is reality. Assad kept Syria from falling to ISIS. We know the rebels are dominated by a group on the US terrorist list linked to Al Qaeda.

    The brutal reality in the Muslim Middle East is the choice now is largely between ruthless dictator or a nation dominated by Islamic militancy, with a handful of exceptions like Jordan. See the removal of Gaddafi or Saddam and the aftermath
  • HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    You have no idea. No clue. Why should a junior doctor just put if training earn that much? In the NHS pay increments on a regular basis. That's why starting salaries are used by the unions, as the reality is different after a few years. And no doubt doctors get better with experience. We all do. We have consistently failed to train enough doctors in the UK for a number of reasons. Firstly training them needs training places and that means doctors in hospitals. It's not just uni places. And the doctors have always been careful to keep numbers down too, after all keep supply down keeps the wages high. And no doubt there is an attraction to moving overseas to Aussie or NZ for instance, but higher salaries aren't everything. Taxes, pensions etc are different. So its not as simple as just paying doctors more.
    I have a clue thank you, as friends have recently emigrated because the salaries in the NHS are so awful. They get far more abroad.

    If we’d have paid them more, they’d have stayed.
    It's not just pay though is it? Moving overseas means a different pension and tax system. And for sure working in the NHS right now can be pretty shit. But the answer isn't a ridiculous 300 percent jump in junior doctors starting salary, it's sorting out the NHS. That's fixing infrastructure, getting staffing levels up and all the basics. The Tories have proven over the years that they cannot be trusted to do these basics. But the answer isn't just more pay
    Funding is up 20% in real terms and staffing is up 25% in 5 years....productivity is through the floor.
    How is productivity measured in health contexts? Acts of kindness by the extra nurse who has time now won't show up.
    Things like appointment, treatments started etc. They haven't increased despite all the extra money and staff.
    Do either of those directly lead to outcomes? Surely you measure productivity of healthcare by the death rate. Or something like that. If I need a hip replacement, I don't want appointments, I want to be back at work.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,099

    https://x.com/jeremywarneruk/status/1865095286130880775

    Now there's a surprise. "It turns out the apparent rise in Britain’s illness-related inactivity is not about deteriorating health, but about incentives within the benefit system".

    Now there's a surprise, it's from the Telegraph.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,004
    Atkinson hat trick v New Zealand in Wellington.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEOsTqKmAZw
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307
    edited December 2024

    HYUFD said:

    Just a question, you’d like to pay GPs less?

    They earn absolutely sod all.

    A mere £110,000 on average for a GP partner, what paupers they are compared to the median salary of £32,292​​ of the UK taxpayers who pay their NHS wages and earn less than a third of what they do
    https://www.medical-interviews.co.uk/topic/gp-partnerships#:~:text=On average, a GP partner,of England (£120,000).
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/26/average-uk-annual-salary-age-revealed-see-compare-2-21870825/
    Doctors in general get paid absolutely nothing in this country. Similar to the Civil Service I would be increasing salaries substantially and we’d get better people.

    £100K a year or more for a junior doctor would be a good start.
    You have no idea. No clue. Why should a junior doctor just put if training earn that much? In the NHS pay increments on a regular basis. That's why starting salaries are used by the unions, as the reality is different after a few years. And no doubt doctors get better with experience. We all do. We have consistently failed to train enough doctors in the UK for a number of reasons. Firstly training them needs training places and that means doctors in hospitals. It's not just uni places. And the doctors have always been careful to keep numbers down too, after all keep supply down keeps the wages high. And no doubt there is an attraction to moving overseas to Aussie or NZ for instance, but higher salaries aren't everything. Taxes, pensions etc are different. So its not as simple as just paying doctors more.
    I have a clue thank you, as friends have recently emigrated because the salaries in the NHS are so awful. They get far more abroad.

    If we’d have paid them more, they’d have stayed.
    It's not just pay though is it? Moving overseas means a different pension and tax system. And for sure working in the NHS right now can be pretty shit. But the answer isn't a ridiculous 300 percent jump in junior doctors starting salary, it's sorting out the NHS. That's fixing infrastructure, getting staffing levels up and all the basics. The Tories have proven over the years that they cannot be trusted to do these basics. But the answer isn't just more pay
    Funding is up 20% in real terms and staffing is up 25% in 5 years....productivity is through the floor.
    Actually NHS productivity is significantly improving.

    https://bsky.app/profile/rentouljohn.bsky.social/post/3larflnb4ek2e
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207
    Nigelb said:

    The real danger isn’t what replaces Assad; it’s the resurgence ISIS.

    As the #HTS/opposition advance continues in western #Syria, #Assad's regime has withdrawn all its core forces from the central desert.

    There, #ISIS stands to reap huge rewards, as it's already deep within a major resurgence

    https://x.com/Charles_Lister/status/1864739864484217243

    ISIS are just another branch of the rebels
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,402
    ohnotnow said:

    https://x.com/jeremywarneruk/status/1865095286130880775

    Now there's a surprise. "It turns out the apparent rise in Britain’s illness-related inactivity is not about deteriorating health, but about incentives within the benefit system".

    Now there's a surprise, it's from the Telegraph.
    No, the FT:

    https://www.ft.com/content/1409c952-28c0-4a3f-be90-493234a949b2
This discussion has been closed.