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A game changer or a QTWTAIN? – politicalbetting.com

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  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    kinabalu said:

    Biden's pardon relegates his legacy even more to being just an interregnum in the Trump era.

    A four year break on a tide of shit is not such a terrible legacy.
    Biden has not been a bad President even after this faux pas which it would be a shame if it tarnished his legacy.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The wording of Biden’s pardon - according to Andrew Neil - is mind boggling


    “The pardon is very broad, covering offenses “which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in” dating back to the beginning of 2014”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1863527669939216732?s=46

    How can anyone justify that? What if Biden committed a murder or a rape or child abuse or god knows. I can’t get my head around it

    I am NOT saying Hunter Biden did any of these things, I am saying that if he did then - as per my reading of these words - he is now immune from prosecution

    That actually goes far beyond the concept of “pardon”

    The Supreme Court ruled that President Trump has immunity so if he commits murder, rape or child abuse... you see where I'm going with this? Hunter Biden had a laptop and tax bill, and now a pardon. So what?
    Biden swore he would not do this. He swore that many times. He made a big thing out of it. His White House spokespeople repeated it. “No. Never. Not gonna happen. We are better than Trump”

    It was literally one of his campaigning principles - “I’m the kind of guy that respects the law, unlike Trump, I won’t pardon my son”

    How can you guys not see the FUCKING ENORMOUS PROBLEM HERE

    Trump sells himself as a chancer and a wise guy and a devious fuck who will nonetheless get things done. You can’t then sell yourself as the morally superior alternative then be easily as bad. Because it makes you WORSE
    So don't vote for Biden in 2028.
    Neither Biden or term limited Trump will be on the ballot in 2028 so it is a chance to turn the page with Vance and whoever the Democrat nominee is
    Vance is part and parcel of MAGA now.
    It would take something pretty dramatic from him to turn that page.
    Ideologically yes but he is rather more moral than Trump in his private life and respects the rule of law
    Not saying a lot, that, is it?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    edited December 2
    "Sweden and Norway rethink cashless society plans over Russia security fears

    Rise in hybrid warfare and cyber-attacks blamed on pro-Russia groups prompt Nordic neighbours to backpedal"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/30/sweden-and-norway-rethink-cashless-society-plans-over-russia-security-fears

    'Because all Swedish payment systems were part of one ecosystem, an attack could bring society to a standstill, he said. “Pretty much any function that you do in society you have to use some sort of payment or verification analysis, either by electronic ID or electronic payment,” he said. “All of those would be at risk of undermining the functionality of the entire system in Sweden if it were to fail.”"
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,434
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    *Apparently* there were US air strikes against Iranian-backed militia in eastern Syria last night.

    Not seeing this reported anywhere sane, but it was on Twix.

    Yes, I saw that, but hesitated to post it without confirmation.
    The source was a pretty regular Syrian conflict reporter, FWIW.
    If true, that means Russia and the USA are on the same side?!?
    No. Both Russia and Iran back Assad (though I would not be surprised if Iran was sponsoring other groups as well.)
    Thankyou. It’s so incredibly complex

    I’ve seen some hideous evidence that these rebels - or some of them - are easily as bad as isis. Islamist maniacs who will impose brutal sharia law a la Taliban

    Which leaves me in the impossibly horrible position of maybe hoping Assad prevails
    Initial reports on the ground from Aleppo suggest not.
    But then again, similar claims of reasonableness were actually made for ISIS in the very early days.
    There are, I am afraid, grotesque videos. I don’t think they are fake

    This is probably ISIS 2.0 and I reckon anyone hoping for the rebels to be good guys are like those who hoped the new Taliban would be more reasonable. That’s the Taliban who have just made it illegal for women to speak
    Bad guys of different types killing each other is no bad thing.
    It is if you’ve been to Syria and met Syrians and had a wonderful time back in 1998 and held out a lot of hope that this country - quite secular, pluralistic, a safe place for minorities like Christians, despite the horrors of the regime - might actually evolve into an exemplar. Maybe even one day a democracy

    What has happened since is unutterably bad. There is no upside. At all
    More backwash of the Iraq invasion.
    Possibly the greatest unforced error by western powers EVER

    Britain’s decision to enter WW1 was worse if you’re a Briton
    Gulf War 1 was right and proportionate. Gulf War 2 was not only immoral and illegal, it was tactically and strategically disastrous.

    Blair was a very smart PM and extremely shrewd about the main chance but his backing of W was a huge mistake, even if the Tories were all for it.
    Not necessarily, Iraq is still free of Saddam and his family and has an elected government. Afghanistan by contrast is back in Taliban hands and Bin Laden was killed in Pakistan anyway.

    Given the growth of militants in Syria since though Assad is the better of 2 evils there
    Why? Are you aware of what Assad's been doing over there?
    No matter what he has done, he is still better than the Islamist former Al Qaeda linked rebels opposing him
    Not all the rebels are 'Al Qaeda linked'.

    And Assad himself has cooperated with ISIL when it suited him.

    https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/4698

    Don't swallow Russian propaganda.
    It was Assad's army supported by the Russians who defeated ISIL in Syria.

    (Snip)
    Bullshit, as I showed with my links yesterday. Russia and Assad were more concerned with destroying the other rebels, and as my link above shows, even paid ISIL.
    You showed sod all, the Kurds only held ISIL at bay from the very north of Syria, it was Assad's army and Russian airstrikes that defeated ISIL in the rest of Syria.

    Clearly they didn't defeat the other largely AQ linked rebels enough though, for even as ISIL have largely been defeated in Syria the Al Qaeda linked rebels haven't
    " Moscow officially portrayed its intervention as an anti-IS campaign and publicly declared support for the "patriotic Syrian opposition", the vast majority of its bombings were focused on destroying bases of the Syrian opposition militias of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) and Southern Front."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_against_the_Islamic_State

    The battle that rid Syria of IS was an American/SDF one:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Baghuz_Fawqani

    And as I've pointed out in the past, IS still exist in Syria, though they do not really control any territory.
    Baghuz Fawqani was right on the Iraq and Syria border, it was Assad's troops forcing ISIL out of the likes of Palmyra backed by the Russians that largely defeated ISIL in Syria

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/3/3/palmyra-russia-backed-syrian-army-retakes-ancient-city#:~:text=The Syrian army said it,driven out eight months before.
    You keep on repeating the same shit, and it's wrong, as my links show. But at least you've changed your view to 'largely', which is at least an improved position from your "It was Assad's army supported by the Russians who defeated ISIL in Syria." rubbish.

    You now seem to be saying: "Yeah, but that place in Syria wasn't really Syria..." Which is an absurd position to take. You also ignore my point about the Russians and Assad concentrating most of their fire on non-ISIL groups.

    The situation in Syria was, and is, an almighty mess. But trying to make the Russians out to be the good guys over there is a rather odd position to take.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,434
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Biden's pardon relegates his legacy even more to being just an interregnum in the Trump era.

    A four year break on a tide of shit is not such a terrible legacy.
    Biden has not been a bad President even after this faux pas which it would be a shame if it tarnished his legacy.
    IMV Obama was a poor president, but a brilliant orator.
    MV Biden was a reasonable president, but a terrible orator, especially towards the end.

    What the Dems needed, and need, is a combination of the two: someone with Obama's rhetorical and media skills, who is actually a better-than-poor president.

    What we'll probably get is someone with Biden's rhetorical skills making Obama-level decisions.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    *Apparently* there were US air strikes against Iranian-backed militia in eastern Syria last night.

    Not seeing this reported anywhere sane, but it was on Twix.

    Yes, I saw that, but hesitated to post it without confirmation.
    The source was a pretty regular Syrian conflict reporter, FWIW.
    If true, that means Russia and the USA are on the same side?!?
    No. Both Russia and Iran back Assad (though I would not be surprised if Iran was sponsoring other groups as well.)
    Thankyou. It’s so incredibly complex

    I’ve seen some hideous evidence that these rebels - or some of them - are easily as bad as isis. Islamist maniacs who will impose brutal sharia law a la Taliban

    Which leaves me in the impossibly horrible position of maybe hoping Assad prevails
    Initial reports on the ground from Aleppo suggest not.
    But then again, similar claims of reasonableness were actually made for ISIS in the very early days.
    There are, I am afraid, grotesque videos. I don’t think they are fake

    This is probably ISIS 2.0 and I reckon anyone hoping for the rebels to be good guys are like those who hoped the new Taliban would be more reasonable. That’s the Taliban who have just made it illegal for women to speak
    Bad guys of different types killing each other is no bad thing.
    It is if you’ve been to Syria and met Syrians and had a wonderful time back in 1998 and held out a lot of hope that this country - quite secular, pluralistic, a safe place for minorities like Christians, despite the horrors of the regime - might actually evolve into an exemplar. Maybe even one day a democracy

    What has happened since is unutterably bad. There is no upside. At all
    More backwash of the Iraq invasion.
    Possibly the greatest unforced error by western powers EVER

    Britain’s decision to enter WW1 was worse if you’re a Briton
    Gulf War 1 was right and proportionate. Gulf War 2 was not only immoral and illegal, it was tactically and strategically disastrous.

    Blair was a very smart PM and extremely shrewd about the main chance but his backing of W was a huge mistake, even if the Tories were all for it.
    Not necessarily, Iraq is still free of Saddam and his family and has an elected government. Afghanistan by contrast is back in Taliban hands and Bin Laden was killed in Pakistan anyway.

    Given the growth of militants in Syria since though Assad is the better of 2 evils there
    Why? Are you aware of what Assad's been doing over there?
    No matter what he has done, he is still better than the Islamist former Al Qaeda linked rebels opposing him
    Not all the rebels are 'Al Qaeda linked'.

    And Assad himself has cooperated with ISIL when it suited him.

    https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/4698

    Don't swallow Russian propaganda.
    It was Assad's army supported by the Russians who defeated ISIL in Syria.

    (Snip)
    Bullshit, as I showed with my links yesterday. Russia and Assad were more concerned with destroying the other rebels, and as my link above shows, even paid ISIL.
    You showed sod all, the Kurds only held ISIL at bay from the very north of Syria, it was Assad's army and Russian airstrikes that defeated ISIL in the rest of Syria.

    Clearly they didn't defeat the other largely AQ linked rebels enough though, for even as ISIL have largely been defeated in Syria the Al Qaeda linked rebels haven't
    " Moscow officially portrayed its intervention as an anti-IS campaign and publicly declared support for the "patriotic Syrian opposition", the vast majority of its bombings were focused on destroying bases of the Syrian opposition militias of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) and Southern Front."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_against_the_Islamic_State

    The battle that rid Syria of IS was an American/SDF one:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Baghuz_Fawqani

    And as I've pointed out in the past, IS still exist in Syria, though they do not really control any territory.
    Baghuz Fawqani was right on the Iraq and Syria border, it was Assad's troops forcing ISIL out of the likes of Palmyra backed by the Russians that largely defeated ISIL in Syria

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/3/3/palmyra-russia-backed-syrian-army-retakes-ancient-city#:~:text=The Syrian army said it,driven out eight months before.
    You keep on repeating the same shit, and it's wrong, as my links show. But at least you've changed your view to 'largely', which is at least an improved position from your "It was Assad's army supported by the Russians who defeated ISIL in Syria." rubbish.

    You now seem to be saying: "Yeah, but that place in Syria wasn't really Syria..." Which is an absurd position to take. You also ignore my point about the Russians and Assad concentrating most of their fire on non-ISIL groups.

    The situation in Syria was, and is, an almighty mess. But trying to make the Russians out to be the good guys over there is a rather odd position to take.
    Point of order. He has hardly changed his view WRT ISIL as he said the same when I debated this with him at the weekend.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    Couple of potential Democrat Senate pickups right here.

    Collins is up for reelection in 2026 and Murkowski is up for reelection in 2028. Alaskans and Mainers, remember this and primary them...
    https://x.com/Riley_Gaines_/status/1862965745342140750

    The 'moderate' GOP Senator is between a rock and a hard place under Trump.
    If they toe the line, their state electorate might well reject them; if they don't, their primary voters might.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    edited December 2
    "France, a pessimistic country hit by political crisis
    The twelfth wave of the annual 'Fractures françaises' survey, carried out by Ipsos for Le Monde, reveals a deeply dissatisfied France, which no longer has confidence in its politicians and institutions.
    By Gwennoline Le Cornec"

    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2024/12/02/france-a-pessimistic-country-hit-by-political-crisis_6734892_7.html
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    Andy_JS said:

    "Sweden and Norway rethink cashless society plans over Russia security fears

    Rise in hybrid warfare and cyber-attacks blamed on pro-Russia groups prompt Nordic neighbours to backpedal"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/30/sweden-and-norway-rethink-cashless-society-plans-over-russia-security-fears

    'Because all Swedish payment systems were part of one ecosystem, an attack could bring society to a standstill, he said. “Pretty much any function that you do in society you have to use some sort of payment or verification analysis, either by electronic ID or electronic payment,” he said. “All of those would be at risk of undermining the functionality of the entire system in Sweden if it were to fail.”"

    I had to use cash on Saturday to pay for parking.

    The location is covered by a parking app, but what it was not covered by is cell service. Couldn't get an auth code on my phone.

    The parking meter had a contactless payment reader, which declined every card presented to it, presumably cos it couldn't contact the bank, cos there was no phone service...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Biden's pardon relegates his legacy even more to being just an interregnum in the Trump era.

    A four year break on a tide of shit is not such a terrible legacy.
    Biden has not been a bad President even after this faux pas which it would be a shame if it tarnished his legacy.
    IMV Obama was a poor president, but a brilliant orator.
    MV Biden was a reasonable president, but a terrible orator, especially towards the end.

    What the Dems needed, and need, is a combination of the two: someone with Obama's rhetorical and media skills, who is actually a better-than-poor president.

    What we'll probably get is someone with Biden's rhetorical skills making Obama-level decisions.
    That candidate wouldn't get elected.
    And the Democrats actually have a pretty good set of options for 2028, assuming there's still a free election.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    The fact so many Democrat supporters are supporting Biden is slightly disturbing imo. They're not interested in trying to be better than the Republicans - they just want to get even with them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    edited December 2
    The replies to this...

    It’s leaked! Say hello to the beginning of Jaguars’s all-new “copy nothing” era! What do you think?
    https://x.com/AutoExpress/status/1863519651621134537

    I'd say Biden's pardon decision went down pretty well in comparison.

    (There are, of course, a whole heap of Americans triggered by the choice of pink.)
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    Andy_JS said:

    The fact so many Democrat supporters are supporting Biden is slightly disturbing imo. They're not interested in trying to be better than the Republicans - they just want to get even with them.

    Indeed.

    The stock reply seems to be "but Trump....."

    As if this in any way mitigates. Anyway I thought they wanted the moral high ground.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945

    Biden has screwed the Democrats forever. The American people are never going to vote for a party led by a hypocritical liar whose family members are up to their necks in grift. Voters have made it clear time and again that above all else they cherish US democracy and its institutions. There is no route to power for anyone who does not share those values.

    +1
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    Nigelb said:

    The replies to this...

    It’s leaked! Say hello to the beginning of Jaguars’s all-new “copy nothing” era! What do you think?
    https://x.com/AutoExpress/status/1863519651621134537

    I'd say Biden's pardon decision went down pretty well in comparison.

    If you look on the Auto Express website underneath the jaguar images is the new Citroen DS no.9

    Now it’s a big French / Citroen car so won’t sell but it’s an awful lot nicer than that Jaguar concept and probably half the price max
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    a
    Nigelb said:

    The replies to this...

    It’s leaked! Say hello to the beginning of Jaguars’s all-new “copy nothing” era! What do you think?
    https://x.com/AutoExpress/status/1863519651621134537

    I'd say Biden's pardon decision went down pretty well in comparison.

    That looks like someone asked an LLM to design a car - which would give you every car design mashed together. Badly.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    Andy_JS said:

    "France, a pessimistic country hit by political crisis
    The twelfth wave of the annual 'Fractures françaises' survey, carried out by Ipsos for Le Monde, reveals a deeply dissatisfied France, which no longer has confidence in its politicians and institutions.
    By Gwennoline Le Cornec"

    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2024/12/02/france-a-pessimistic-country-hit-by-political-crisis_6734892_7.html

    So just like everywhere else then.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632

    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The wording of Biden’s pardon - according to Andrew Neil - is mind boggling


    “The pardon is very broad, covering offenses “which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in” dating back to the beginning of 2014”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1863527669939216732?s=46

    How can anyone justify that? What if Biden committed a murder or a rape or child abuse or god knows. I can’t get my head around it

    I am NOT saying Hunter Biden did any of these things, I am saying that if he did then - as per my reading of these words - he is now immune from prosecution

    That actually goes far beyond the concept of “pardon”

    The Supreme Court ruled that President Trump has immunity so if he commits murder, rape or child abuse... you see where I'm going with this? Hunter Biden had a laptop and tax bill, and now a pardon. So what?
    Biden swore he would not do this. He swore that many times. He made a big thing out of it. His White House spokespeople repeated it. “No. Never. Not gonna happen. We are better than Trump”

    It was literally one of his campaigning principles - “I’m the kind of guy that respects the law, unlike Trump, I won’t pardon my son”

    How can you guys not see the FUCKING ENORMOUS PROBLEM HERE

    Trump sells himself as a chancer and a wise guy and a devious fuck who will nonetheless get things done. You can’t then sell yourself as the morally superior alternative then be easily as bad. Because it makes you WORSE
    Of course, it's ghastly behaviour. I'd rate Trump's actions to incite insurrection worse, but that doesn't excuse Biden's moral corruption. I've long suspected that both Biden and Trump have more criminality hidden away in their pasts too.

    I wonder how long it'll take the US to fix this very dangerous situation where their President's can basically do whatever they like. It can't be a sensible state of affairs.
    It'll take at least four years from late January 2025.
    Well Trump might of course pardon himself and then abolish the power of future Presidents to do such a thing as a bit of a final wheeze. More likely though he announces that he wants to fix the problem and uses it as excuse to postpone future elections.
    He might equally just go the whole hog.

    Abolish elections, declare himself President for life and name Musk as his successor.

    What would Americans be able to do with The National Guard and Armed Forces trumpifed and Musks satellites sat with nuclear warheads around the Globe.

    This is only ending one way... Civil War. Hopefully it'll dawn on the Yanks soon enough that civil disobedience is the only way to stop it.

    Mark my words, in 2 years time this will make the likes of Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin look like friendly pets
    Is this a cunning piece of expectations management on behalf of the GOP?
    The shocking scenes of January 2021 are a mere precursor to what will come next.

    On topic... The UK must stand up to Trump and Musk, with or without Europe.

    Indeed IF the Conservative Party have any commonsense they will ally with Labour, as Labour did with Churchill in WW2 to stand up to evil.

    For Moseley substitute Farage.

    Democracy must win... Our mainstream politics are under unprecedented threat from 21st century fascism...

    The forces of evil must be stopped before it's too late including 5th columnists traitors and Trojan horses like Farage and Robinson.
    It's a new world since 5/11 for sure. We'll need Europe to forgive Brexit and fight with us against Trump though. I don't think we can reprise our "stand alone" heroics from WW2.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    Andy_JS said:

    Biden has screwed the Democrats forever. The American people are never going to vote for a party led by a hypocritical liar whose family members are up to their necks in grift. Voters have made it clear time and again that above all else they cherish US democracy and its institutions. There is no route to power for anyone who does not share those values.

    +1
    There's always one..
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,879
    edited December 2
    Ceiling maintenance.

    A call from a 10+ year late 60s age lady T yesterday lunchtime: "a bit of plaster has fallen off the ceiling in my kitchen, whilst I was upstairs" (where "a bit" is a piece about 8" by 6").

    First question, for the fun of the reaction: Were you above it, jumping up and down at the time?

    (Answer: Approximately ^*&$+@ £$$$%^7 f*&%$$6 *$$£&* !!!!!!!)

    Pop in to visit 20 minutes later. It's a traditional lath and plaster beamed ceiling at a height of 7'4", and the plaster is perhaps Victorian and full of horsehair. It's a small 1850 2-up-2-down detached cottage where all the rooms have 3 outside walls. The way the ceiling works is laths are thin planks of wood with gaps between them nailed to the ceiling joists, and stiff plaster is pushed hard enough that it develops tabs between the laths that hold it up (plasterers need shoulders). The failure mechanism is that over time a few of the taps shear off and it sags.

    The last time I inspected that bit of ceiling was in 1989 when I first bought the house from family, renovated, and moved in. At that time there was a bit which had lost one "tab". Now in 2024 another one has gone.

    A plaster ceiling lasting 100+ years. No complaints from me, I took any other slightly questionable nearby plaster down, cleared up, and the plasterer should be out on Saturday AM to do the 12" x 8' strip between the beams.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Taz said:
    Anything but the economy which theyre totally screwing up

    Manufacturing PMIs worst for 9 months
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    edited December 2
    ...
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    *Apparently* there were US air strikes against Iranian-backed militia in eastern Syria last night.

    Not seeing this reported anywhere sane, but it was on Twix.

    Yes, I saw that, but hesitated to post it without confirmation.
    The source was a pretty regular Syrian conflict reporter, FWIW.
    If true, that means Russia and the USA are on the same side?!?
    No. Both Russia and Iran back Assad (though I would not be surprised if Iran was sponsoring other groups as well.)
    Thankyou. It’s so incredibly complex

    I’ve seen some hideous evidence that these rebels - or some of them - are easily as bad as isis. Islamist maniacs who will impose brutal sharia law a la Taliban

    Which leaves me in the impossibly horrible position of maybe hoping Assad prevails
    Initial reports on the ground from Aleppo suggest not.
    But then again, similar claims of reasonableness were actually made for ISIS in the very early days.
    There are, I am afraid, grotesque videos. I don’t think they are fake

    This is probably ISIS 2.0 and I reckon anyone hoping for the rebels to be good guys are like those who hoped the new Taliban would be more reasonable. That’s the Taliban who have just made it illegal for women to speak
    I'm not expecting good guys.
    Just hoping for something slightly better than Assad. We'll see.
    We have already seen what rebel controlled Aleppo was like, hence the joyous Christmas celebrations when they fucked off. These will obviously be exactly the same for their bloody and hopefully short reign, and as I said to Tim the other day, if you found yourself in a no man's land between SAA held territory and rebel held Aleppo, you'd run screaming into the former to protect you, so I think the citizens of Aleppo would probably tell you where you could file your 'hopes', especially if they have the misfortune to be Christian, Druze, Alawite, female, or anything apart from an Islamist nutter.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 279
    Taz said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The wording of Biden’s pardon - according to Andrew Neil - is mind boggling


    “The pardon is very broad, covering offenses “which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in” dating back to the beginning of 2014”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1863527669939216732?s=46

    How can anyone justify that? What if Biden committed a murder or a rape or child abuse or god knows. I can’t get my head around it

    I am NOT saying Hunter Biden did any of these things, I am saying that if he did then - as per my reading of these words - he is now immune from prosecution

    That actually goes far beyond the concept of “pardon”

    The Supreme Court ruled that President Trump has immunity so if he commits murder, rape or child abuse... you see where I'm going with this? Hunter Biden had a laptop and tax bill, and now a pardon. So what?
    Biden swore he would not do this. He swore that many times. He made a big thing out of it. His White House spokespeople repeated it. “No. Never. Not gonna happen. We are better than Trump”

    It was literally one of his campaigning principles - “I’m the kind of guy that respects the law, unlike Trump, I won’t pardon my son”

    How can you guys not see the FUCKING ENORMOUS PROBLEM HERE

    Trump sells himself as a chancer and a wise guy and a devious fuck who will nonetheless get things done. You can’t then sell yourself as the morally superior alternative then be easily as bad. Because it makes you WORSE
    Of course, it's ghastly behaviour. I'd rate Trump's actions to incite insurrection worse, but that doesn't excuse Biden's moral corruption. I've long suspected that both Biden and Trump have more criminality hidden away in their pasts too.

    I wonder how long it'll take the US to fix this very dangerous situation where their President's can basically do whatever they like. It can't be a sensible state of affairs.
    It'll take at least four years from late January 2025.
    Well Trump might of course pardon himself and then abolish the power of future Presidents to do such a thing as a bit of a final wheeze. More likely though he announces that he wants to fix the problem and uses it as excuse to postpone future elections.
    He might equally just go the whole hog.

    Abolish elections, declare himself President for life and name Musk as his successor.

    What would Americans be able to do with The National Guard and Armed Forces trumpifed and Musks satellites sat with nuclear warheads around the Globe.

    This is only ending one way... Civil War. Hopefully it'll dawn on the Yanks soon enough that civil disobedience is the only way to stop it.

    Mark my words, in 2 years time this will make the likes of Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin look like friendly pets
    With all due respect what utter bollocks.

    Trump derangement syndrome at its most ridiculous.
    Thats the sort of misplaced logic that Chamberlain came back from Berlin with

    Musk has pure Aphartheid blood as his DNA.

    They've given him carte blanche.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    OK, add Trump's pardon of Mike Flynn to the Nixon pardon precedent.
    Funny how the media forgot this one this morning.

    https://www.justice.gov/pardon/page/file/1341606/dl
    "...any and all possible offences.."
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,434

    ...

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    *Apparently* there were US air strikes against Iranian-backed militia in eastern Syria last night.

    Not seeing this reported anywhere sane, but it was on Twix.

    Yes, I saw that, but hesitated to post it without confirmation.
    The source was a pretty regular Syrian conflict reporter, FWIW.
    If true, that means Russia and the USA are on the same side?!?
    No. Both Russia and Iran back Assad (though I would not be surprised if Iran was sponsoring other groups as well.)
    Thankyou. It’s so incredibly complex

    I’ve seen some hideous evidence that these rebels - or some of them - are easily as bad as isis. Islamist maniacs who will impose brutal sharia law a la Taliban

    Which leaves me in the impossibly horrible position of maybe hoping Assad prevails
    Initial reports on the ground from Aleppo suggest not.
    But then again, similar claims of reasonableness were actually made for ISIS in the very early days.
    There are, I am afraid, grotesque videos. I don’t think they are fake

    This is probably ISIS 2.0 and I reckon anyone hoping for the rebels to be good guys are like those who hoped the new Taliban would be more reasonable. That’s the Taliban who have just made it illegal for women to speak
    I'm not expecting good guys.
    Just hoping for something slightly better than Assad. We'll see.
    We have already seen what rebel controlled Aleppo was like, hence the joyous Christmas celebrations when they fucked off. These will obviously be exactly the same for their bloody and hopefully short reign, and as I said to Tim the other day, if you found yourself in a no man's land between SAA held territory and rebel held Aleppo, you'd run screaming into the former to protect you, so I think the citizens of Aleppo would probably tell you where you could file your 'hopes', especially if they have the misfortune to be Christian, Druze, Alawite, female, or anything apart from an Islamist nutter.
    You're missing out some important steps.

    City under Assad's control: death to anyone who dares disagree with him.
    City under IS control: death to anyone who dare disagree with them.

    Most of the population, as in France during WW2, just buckle down and try to make the best of what they can, without popping their heads above the parapet. Some of these rebel groups - especially the Kurds - may well be 'better' than both those options.

    But don't make the mistake of believing Assad is anything other than a mass-murdering shit.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Nigelb said:

    OK, add Trump's pardon of Mike Flynn to the Nixon pardon precedent.
    Funny how the media forgot this one this morning.

    https://www.justice.gov/pardon/page/file/1341606/dl
    "...any and all possible offences.."

    Im waiting for Rudi Giuliani and his rebate

  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    Taz said:
    Anything but the economy which theyre totally screwing up

    Manufacturing PMIs worst for 9 months
    He will be cropping up on Loose Women next to talk about it.

    What a shit show they are turning out to be.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    edited December 2
    Taz said:

    Taz said:
    Anything but the economy which theyre totally screwing up

    Manufacturing PMIs worst for 9 months
    He will be cropping up on Loose Women next to talk about it.

    What a shit show they are turning out to be.
    Bit harsh about Loose Women.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    Leon said:

    The White House spokeswomen 6 months ago


    "No. No. It's a no. It will always be a no. Biden will not pardon his son Hunter."

    https://x.com/richquack/status/1863504826346488110?s=46

    Do the optics get any worse than that?

    How about 30 plus felony convictions and a court adjudication of rape?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Taz said:

    Taz said:
    Anything but the economy which theyre totally screwing up

    Manufacturing PMIs worst for 9 months
    He will be cropping up on Loose Women next to talk about it.

    What a shit show they are turning out to be.
    Manufacturing murdered
    Farminf fked
    Retail rogered
    Hospitality humped

    Is there anywhere in the private sector Reeves hasnt messed up ?

  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    Taz said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The wording of Biden’s pardon - according to Andrew Neil - is mind boggling


    “The pardon is very broad, covering offenses “which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in” dating back to the beginning of 2014”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1863527669939216732?s=46

    How can anyone justify that? What if Biden committed a murder or a rape or child abuse or god knows. I can’t get my head around it

    I am NOT saying Hunter Biden did any of these things, I am saying that if he did then - as per my reading of these words - he is now immune from prosecution

    That actually goes far beyond the concept of “pardon”

    The Supreme Court ruled that President Trump has immunity so if he commits murder, rape or child abuse... you see where I'm going with this? Hunter Biden had a laptop and tax bill, and now a pardon. So what?
    Biden swore he would not do this. He swore that many times. He made a big thing out of it. His White House spokespeople repeated it. “No. Never. Not gonna happen. We are better than Trump”

    It was literally one of his campaigning principles - “I’m the kind of guy that respects the law, unlike Trump, I won’t pardon my son”

    How can you guys not see the FUCKING ENORMOUS PROBLEM HERE

    Trump sells himself as a chancer and a wise guy and a devious fuck who will nonetheless get things done. You can’t then sell yourself as the morally superior alternative then be easily as bad. Because it makes you WORSE
    Of course, it's ghastly behaviour. I'd rate Trump's actions to incite insurrection worse, but that doesn't excuse Biden's moral corruption. I've long suspected that both Biden and Trump have more criminality hidden away in their pasts too.

    I wonder how long it'll take the US to fix this very dangerous situation where their President's can basically do whatever they like. It can't be a sensible state of affairs.
    It'll take at least four years from late January 2025.
    Well Trump might of course pardon himself and then abolish the power of future Presidents to do such a thing as a bit of a final wheeze. More likely though he announces that he wants to fix the problem and uses it as excuse to postpone future elections.
    He might equally just go the whole hog.

    Abolish elections, declare himself President for life and name Musk as his successor.

    What would Americans be able to do with The National Guard and Armed Forces trumpifed and Musks satellites sat with nuclear warheads around the Globe.

    This is only ending one way... Civil War. Hopefully it'll dawn on the Yanks soon enough that civil disobedience is the only way to stop it.

    Mark my words, in 2 years time this will make the likes of Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin look like friendly pets
    With all due respect what utter bollocks.

    Trump derangement syndrome at its most ridiculous.
    Thats the sort of misplaced logic that Chamberlain came back from Berlin with

    Musk has pure Aphartheid blood as his DNA.

    They've given him carte blanche.
    Gosh, you're right. Do you think he will bring back slavery ?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @Smyth_Chris

    Chris Wormald, dept of health perm sec, is the new Cabinet secretary

    The choice no one expected
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,231
    Taz said:
    Good grief.

    "Speaking on Monday, the Prime Minister's official spokesman said: "As we said last week these allegations are obviously deeply concerning."

    Are they?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Biden's pardon relegates his legacy even more to being just an interregnum in the Trump era.

    A four year break on a tide of shit is not such a terrible legacy.
    Biden has not been a bad President even after this faux pas which it would be a shame if it tarnished his legacy.
    IMV Obama was a poor president, but a brilliant orator.
    MV Biden was a reasonable president, but a terrible orator, especially towards the end.

    What the Dems needed, and need, is a combination of the two: someone with Obama's rhetorical and media skills, who is actually a better-than-poor president.

    What we'll probably get is someone with Biden's rhetorical skills making Obama-level decisions.
    Obama was better on domestic than foreign policy imo.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The wording of Biden’s pardon - according to Andrew Neil - is mind boggling


    “The pardon is very broad, covering offenses “which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in” dating back to the beginning of 2014”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1863527669939216732?s=46

    How can anyone justify that? What if Biden committed a murder or a rape or child abuse or god knows. I can’t get my head around it

    I am NOT saying Hunter Biden did any of these things, I am saying that if he did then - as per my reading of these words - he is now immune from prosecution

    That actually goes far beyond the concept of “pardon”

    The Supreme Court ruled that President Trump has immunity so if he commits murder, rape or child abuse... you see where I'm going with this? Hunter Biden had a laptop and tax bill, and now a pardon. So what?
    Biden swore he would not do this. He swore that many times. He made a big thing out of it. His White House spokespeople repeated it. “No. Never. Not gonna happen. We are better than Trump”

    It was literally one of his campaigning principles - “I’m the kind of guy that respects the law, unlike Trump, I won’t pardon my son”

    How can you guys not see the FUCKING ENORMOUS PROBLEM HERE

    Trump sells himself as a chancer and a wise guy and a devious fuck who will nonetheless get things done. You can’t then sell yourself as the morally superior alternative then be easily as bad. Because it makes you WORSE
    Of course, it's ghastly behaviour. I'd rate Trump's actions to incite insurrection worse, but that doesn't excuse Biden's moral corruption. I've long suspected that both Biden and Trump have more criminality hidden away in their pasts too.

    I wonder how long it'll take the US to fix this very dangerous situation where their President's can basically do whatever they like. It can't be a sensible state of affairs.
    It'll take at least four years from late January 2025.
    Well Trump might of course pardon himself and then abolish the power of future Presidents to do such a thing as a bit of a final wheeze. More likely though he announces that he wants to fix the problem and uses it as excuse to postpone future elections.
    He might equally just go the whole hog.

    Abolish elections, declare himself President for life and name Musk as his successor.

    What would Americans be able to do with The National Guard and Armed Forces trumpifed and Musks satellites sat with nuclear warheads around the Globe.

    This is only ending one way... Civil War. Hopefully it'll dawn on the Yanks soon enough that civil disobedience is the only way to stop it.

    Mark my words, in 2 years time this will make the likes of Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin look like friendly pets
    With all due respect what utter bollocks.

    Trump derangement syndrome at its most ridiculous.
    Thats the sort of misplaced logic that Chamberlain came back from Berlin with

    Musk has pure Aphartheid blood as his DNA.

    They've given him carte blanche.
    Gosh, you're right. Do you think he will bring back slavery ?
    LOL you just know someone in the cabinet is going to be exposed as having a couple of modern slaves
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632

    ...

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    *Apparently* there were US air strikes against Iranian-backed militia in eastern Syria last night.

    Not seeing this reported anywhere sane, but it was on Twix.

    Yes, I saw that, but hesitated to post it without confirmation.
    The source was a pretty regular Syrian conflict reporter, FWIW.
    If true, that means Russia and the USA are on the same side?!?
    No. Both Russia and Iran back Assad (though I would not be surprised if Iran was sponsoring other groups as well.)
    Thankyou. It’s so incredibly complex

    I’ve seen some hideous evidence that these rebels - or some of them - are easily as bad as isis. Islamist maniacs who will impose brutal sharia law a la Taliban

    Which leaves me in the impossibly horrible position of maybe hoping Assad prevails
    Initial reports on the ground from Aleppo suggest not.
    But then again, similar claims of reasonableness were actually made for ISIS in the very early days.
    There are, I am afraid, grotesque videos. I don’t think they are fake

    This is probably ISIS 2.0 and I reckon anyone hoping for the rebels to be good guys are like those who hoped the new Taliban would be more reasonable. That’s the Taliban who have just made it illegal for women to speak
    I'm not expecting good guys.
    Just hoping for something slightly better than Assad. We'll see.
    We have already seen what rebel controlled Aleppo was like, hence the joyous Christmas celebrations when they fucked off. These will obviously be exactly the same for their bloody and hopefully short reign, and as I said to Tim the other day, if you found yourself in a no man's land between SAA held territory and rebel held Aleppo, you'd run screaming into the former to protect you, so I think the citizens of Aleppo would probably tell you where you could file your 'hopes', especially if they have the misfortune to be Christian, Druze, Alawite, female, or anything apart from an Islamist nutter.
    You're missing out some important steps.

    City under Assad's control: death to anyone who dares disagree with him.
    City under IS control: death to anyone who dare disagree with them.

    Most of the population, as in France during WW2, just buckle down and try to make the best of what they can, without popping their heads above the parapet. Some of these rebel groups - especially the Kurds - may well be 'better' than both those options.

    But don't make the mistake of believing Assad is anything other than a mass-murdering shit.
    Yes there's a limit to "enemies enemy = friend" and Assad is well beyond it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,434
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The wording of Biden’s pardon - according to Andrew Neil - is mind boggling


    “The pardon is very broad, covering offenses “which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in” dating back to the beginning of 2014”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1863527669939216732?s=46

    How can anyone justify that? What if Biden committed a murder or a rape or child abuse or god knows. I can’t get my head around it

    I am NOT saying Hunter Biden did any of these things, I am saying that if he did then - as per my reading of these words - he is now immune from prosecution

    That actually goes far beyond the concept of “pardon”

    The Supreme Court ruled that President Trump has immunity so if he commits murder, rape or child abuse... you see where I'm going with this? Hunter Biden had a laptop and tax bill, and now a pardon. So what?
    Biden swore he would not do this. He swore that many times. He made a big thing out of it. His White House spokespeople repeated it. “No. Never. Not gonna happen. We are better than Trump”

    It was literally one of his campaigning principles - “I’m the kind of guy that respects the law, unlike Trump, I won’t pardon my son”

    How can you guys not see the FUCKING ENORMOUS PROBLEM HERE

    Trump sells himself as a chancer and a wise guy and a devious fuck who will nonetheless get things done. You can’t then sell yourself as the morally superior alternative then be easily as bad. Because it makes you WORSE
    Of course, it's ghastly behaviour. I'd rate Trump's actions to incite insurrection worse, but that doesn't excuse Biden's moral corruption. I've long suspected that both Biden and Trump have more criminality hidden away in their pasts too.

    I wonder how long it'll take the US to fix this very dangerous situation where their President's can basically do whatever they like. It can't be a sensible state of affairs.
    It'll take at least four years from late January 2025.
    Well Trump might of course pardon himself and then abolish the power of future Presidents to do such a thing as a bit of a final wheeze. More likely though he announces that he wants to fix the problem and uses it as excuse to postpone future elections.
    He might equally just go the whole hog.

    Abolish elections, declare himself President for life and name Musk as his successor.

    What would Americans be able to do with The National Guard and Armed Forces trumpifed and Musks satellites sat with nuclear warheads around the Globe.

    This is only ending one way... Civil War. Hopefully it'll dawn on the Yanks soon enough that civil disobedience is the only way to stop it.

    Mark my words, in 2 years time this will make the likes of Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin look like friendly pets
    With all due respect what utter bollocks.

    Trump derangement syndrome at its most ridiculous.
    Thats the sort of misplaced logic that Chamberlain came back from Berlin with

    Musk has pure Aphartheid blood as his DNA.

    They've given him carte blanche.
    Gosh, you're right. Do you think he will bring back slavery ?
    A modern form, perhaps. A country where the social safety net, already tatty, is removed for 'efficiency' (*) reasons, meaning the only way to get things like decent healthcare is to be employed by a rich company. Which makes it even more fearful than ever to lose your job, meaning pay goes down, as do employment standards.

    (*) i.e. less tax for the rich to pay.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,826
    edited December 2
    Taz said:

    Taz said:
    Anything but the economy which theyre totally screwing up

    Manufacturing PMIs worst for 9 months
    He will be cropping up on Loose Women next to talk about it.

    What a shit show they are turning out to be.
    Political.parties are all much of the same type....Useless. Labour seem worse than ever, ineffective and driven by socialist dogma.

    You can't polish a turd but Starmer is going to have a go at it. They never learn.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    Leon said:

    The utter blistering hypocrisy of Biden and the Democrats

    They spend two years concocting often dubious law cases against Trump - basically trying anything to get him in jail. But that’s ok because the Democrats aren’t criminals and they don’t break the law like Trump so they are allowed to bend the law a bit ahem

    And now Biden flat out pardons his convicted criminal son. There will be an awful lot of Americans feeling very vindicated in their vote for Trump

    Why the Democratss were right to drop Biden: #28 in a series...
    Hunter's legal travails may be substantial, like a felony conviction for a felon packing a sidearm, but they are mere trifles compared to Tango man's charge sheet.
    You have no idea whether that's true.
    Thirty plus felony convictions, an adjudicated case of rape and video evidence that he figure headed the riots suggest I do.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    Interesting viewpoint about the riots.

    "One of the riots’ ironies (if they were merely an episode and not the shape of things to come) was that liberal intellectuals rediscovered the social value of punishment, which they had previously denied, both on pragmatic and philosophical grounds. Punishment did not work, they had long argued: it neither deterred nor reformed. Besides, it was unjust, merely cruel and vengeful, for wrongdoers were the victims of their circumstances. What they needed was a moral form of physical therapy, or rehabilitation.

    Nothing like this was heard during the riots. What was needed in response to them, the liberals maintained, was severe and rapidly administered punishment (with which I wholeheartedly agree). If rioters could count on a few years’ prison time, there would be fewer of them in years to come, no matter their feelings of resentment. There was no talk of rehabilitation. No psychologist was consulted as to how the rioters should learn to reorder their thoughts so that they became good citizens or to manage their anger so that they did not act on it. No one, as far as I noticed, suggested that rioters were the victims of their circumstances, and therefore the true victims of their own behavior."

    https://www.city-journal.org/article/britains-long-hot-summer
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,434
    On Gregg Wallace.

    I was never a fan of his, and he's been utterly stupid over a significant period of time. His 'apology' shows he does not understand why his behaviour was so poor.

    What he did was worth losing his job over. But I fear the pile-on might lead to something much worse. One day, one of these idiots will end up taking their own life over the pile-on. And I don't think that in any way fits the crime.

    As long as he does not get a media job again, let's all forget about him.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443

    Taz said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The wording of Biden’s pardon - according to Andrew Neil - is mind boggling


    “The pardon is very broad, covering offenses “which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in” dating back to the beginning of 2014”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1863527669939216732?s=46

    How can anyone justify that? What if Biden committed a murder or a rape or child abuse or god knows. I can’t get my head around it

    I am NOT saying Hunter Biden did any of these things, I am saying that if he did then - as per my reading of these words - he is now immune from prosecution

    That actually goes far beyond the concept of “pardon”

    The Supreme Court ruled that President Trump has immunity so if he commits murder, rape or child abuse... you see where I'm going with this? Hunter Biden had a laptop and tax bill, and now a pardon. So what?
    Biden swore he would not do this. He swore that many times. He made a big thing out of it. His White House spokespeople repeated it. “No. Never. Not gonna happen. We are better than Trump”

    It was literally one of his campaigning principles - “I’m the kind of guy that respects the law, unlike Trump, I won’t pardon my son”

    How can you guys not see the FUCKING ENORMOUS PROBLEM HERE

    Trump sells himself as a chancer and a wise guy and a devious fuck who will nonetheless get things done. You can’t then sell yourself as the morally superior alternative then be easily as bad. Because it makes you WORSE
    Of course, it's ghastly behaviour. I'd rate Trump's actions to incite insurrection worse, but that doesn't excuse Biden's moral corruption. I've long suspected that both Biden and Trump have more criminality hidden away in their pasts too.

    I wonder how long it'll take the US to fix this very dangerous situation where their President's can basically do whatever they like. It can't be a sensible state of affairs.
    It'll take at least four years from late January 2025.
    Well Trump might of course pardon himself and then abolish the power of future Presidents to do such a thing as a bit of a final wheeze. More likely though he announces that he wants to fix the problem and uses it as excuse to postpone future elections.
    He might equally just go the whole hog.

    Abolish elections, declare himself President for life and name Musk as his successor.

    What would Americans be able to do with The National Guard and Armed Forces trumpifed and Musks satellites sat with nuclear warheads around the Globe.

    This is only ending one way... Civil War. Hopefully it'll dawn on the Yanks soon enough that civil disobedience is the only way to stop it.

    Mark my words, in 2 years time this will make the likes of Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin look like friendly pets
    With all due respect what utter bollocks.

    Trump derangement syndrome at its most ridiculous.
    Thats the sort of misplaced logic that Chamberlain came back from Berlin with

    Musk has pure Aphartheid blood as his DNA.

    They've given him carte blanche.
    Quick quiz: can anyone think of a politician with a more appropriate name for their beliefs than Eugene Terreblanche?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,916

    On Gregg Wallace.

    I was never a fan of his, and he's been utterly stupid over a significant period of time. His 'apology' shows he does not understand why his behaviour was so poor.

    What he did was worth losing his job over. But I fear the pile-on might lead to something much worse. One day, one of these idiots will end up taking their own life over the pile-on. And I don't think that in any way fits the crime.

    As long as he does not get a media job again, let's all forget about him.

    It appears the BBC are ready to use their memory hole, if their headline about pressure building to pull Masterchef from schedules is anything to go by…
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,231

    On Gregg Wallace.

    I was never a fan of his, and he's been utterly stupid over a significant period of time. His 'apology' shows he does not understand why his behaviour was so poor.

    What he did was worth losing his job over. But I fear the pile-on might lead to something much worse. One day, one of these idiots will end up taking their own life over the pile-on. And I don't think that in any way fits the crime.

    As long as he does not get a media job again, let's all forget about him.

    Ah, you don't think that death fits the 'crime'.

    Well that's something then.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,434
    Stocky said:

    On Gregg Wallace.

    I was never a fan of his, and he's been utterly stupid over a significant period of time. His 'apology' shows he does not understand why his behaviour was so poor.

    What he did was worth losing his job over. But I fear the pile-on might lead to something much worse. One day, one of these idiots will end up taking their own life over the pile-on. And I don't think that in any way fits the crime.

    As long as he does not get a media job again, let's all forget about him.

    Ah, you don't think that death fits the 'crime'.

    Well that's something then.
    I'm not quite sure how you make that out of what I said...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    On Gregg Wallace.

    I was never a fan of his, and he's been utterly stupid over a significant period of time. His 'apology' shows he does not understand why his behaviour was so poor.

    What he did was worth losing his job over. But I fear the pile-on might lead to something much worse. One day, one of these idiots will end up taking their own life over the pile-on. And I don't think that in any way fits the crime.

    As long as he does not get a media job again, let's all forget about him.

    It appears the BBC are ready to use their memory hole, if their headline about pressure building to pull Masterchef from schedules is anything to go by…
    Really stupid idea - just accept the audience will be smaller but show the complete series
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,916
    Stocky said:

    Taz said:
    Good grief.

    "Speaking on Monday, the Prime Minister's official spokesman said: "As we said last week these allegations are obviously deeply concerning."

    Are they?
    Never fear, Lisa Nandy has apparently met BBC bosses about it all!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    Leon said:

    The utter blistering hypocrisy of Biden and the Democrats

    They spend two years concocting often dubious law cases against Trump - basically trying anything to get him in jail. But that’s ok because the Democrats aren’t criminals and they don’t break the law like Trump so they are allowed to bend the law a bit ahem

    And now Biden flat out pardons his convicted criminal son. There will be an awful lot of Americans feeling very vindicated in their vote for Trump

    Why the Democratss were right to drop Biden: #28 in a series...
    Hunter's legal travails may be substantial, like a felony conviction for a felon packing a sidearm, but they are mere trifles compared to Tango man's charge sheet.
    You have no idea whether that's true.
    Thirty plus felony convictions, an adjudicated case of rape and video evidence that he figure headed the riots suggest I do.
    Do you actually believe he raped E Jean Carroll?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,434

    Leon said:

    The utter blistering hypocrisy of Biden and the Democrats

    They spend two years concocting often dubious law cases against Trump - basically trying anything to get him in jail. But that’s ok because the Democrats aren’t criminals and they don’t break the law like Trump so they are allowed to bend the law a bit ahem

    And now Biden flat out pardons his convicted criminal son. There will be an awful lot of Americans feeling very vindicated in their vote for Trump

    Why the Democratss were right to drop Biden: #28 in a series...
    Hunter's legal travails may be substantial, like a felony conviction for a felon packing a sidearm, but they are mere trifles compared to Tango man's charge sheet.
    You have no idea whether that's true.
    Thirty plus felony convictions, an adjudicated case of rape and video evidence that he figure headed the riots suggest I do.
    Do you actually believe he raped E Jean Carroll?
    Why do you always ask questions?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,399
    Scott_xP said:

    @Smyth_Chris

    Chris Wormald, dept of health perm sec, is the new Cabinet secretary

    The choice no one expected

    The choice everyone expected once they'd read it on PB weeks ago. Who does Wormald want to win Masterchef.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352
    Trying to think Democrat spin and construct an honourable explanation for Biden's actions. Not what I believe, but here is what I can come up with.

    "But, Donald Trump" does feature, not because he will pardon his mates, but more because of the possibility of 'revenge' lawfare against Hunter Biden and in particular his supposed dealings with Ukraine. (In this respect the dates in the pardon, if covering this, could be argued relevant). This might protect Ukraine as a nation from one route to undermining US public support for them in pursuit of a Russia friendly settlement, so national security could come into play.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945

    Leon said:

    The utter blistering hypocrisy of Biden and the Democrats

    They spend two years concocting often dubious law cases against Trump - basically trying anything to get him in jail. But that’s ok because the Democrats aren’t criminals and they don’t break the law like Trump so they are allowed to bend the law a bit ahem

    And now Biden flat out pardons his convicted criminal son. There will be an awful lot of Americans feeling very vindicated in their vote for Trump

    Why the Democratss were right to drop Biden: #28 in a series...
    Hunter's legal travails may be substantial, like a felony conviction for a felon packing a sidearm, but they are mere trifles compared to Tango man's charge sheet.
    You have no idea whether that's true.
    Thirty plus felony convictions, an adjudicated case of rape and video evidence that he figure headed the riots suggest I do.
    Do you actually believe he raped E Jean Carroll?
    Why do you always ask questions?
    What's wrong with asking questions
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114

    Taz said:

    Taz said:
    Anything but the economy which theyre totally screwing up

    Manufacturing PMIs worst for 9 months
    He will be cropping up on Loose Women next to talk about it.

    What a shit show they are turning out to be.
    Manufacturing murdered
    Farminf fked
    Retail rogered
    Hospitality humped

    Is there anywhere in the private sector Reeves hasnt messed up ?

    Insolvency specialists are booming.

  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,231

    Stocky said:

    On Gregg Wallace.

    I was never a fan of his, and he's been utterly stupid over a significant period of time. His 'apology' shows he does not understand why his behaviour was so poor.

    What he did was worth losing his job over. But I fear the pile-on might lead to something much worse. One day, one of these idiots will end up taking their own life over the pile-on. And I don't think that in any way fits the crime.

    As long as he does not get a media job again, let's all forget about him.

    Ah, you don't think that death fits the 'crime'.

    Well that's something then.
    I'm not quite sure how you make that out of what I said...
    "One day, one of these idiots will end up taking their own life over the pile-on. And I don't think that in any way fits the crime."
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172

    Leon said:

    The utter blistering hypocrisy of Biden and the Democrats

    They spend two years concocting often dubious law cases against Trump - basically trying anything to get him in jail. But that’s ok because the Democrats aren’t criminals and they don’t break the law like Trump so they are allowed to bend the law a bit ahem

    And now Biden flat out pardons his convicted criminal son. There will be an awful lot of Americans feeling very vindicated in their vote for Trump

    Why the Democratss were right to drop Biden: #28 in a series...
    Hunter's legal travails may be substantial, like a felony conviction for a felon packing a sidearm, but they are mere trifles compared to Tango man's charge sheet.
    You have no idea whether that's true.
    Thirty plus felony convictions, an adjudicated case of rape and video evidence that he figure headed the riots suggest I do.
    Do you actually believe he raped E Jean Carroll?
    Why do you always ask questions?
    It's william's rhetorical style.
    He gets to catechise his political opponents, while remaining gloriously above it all.

    Does he believe the jury was corrupt ?
    That Trump is innocent of all charges against him ?

    Who knows.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Taz said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The wording of Biden’s pardon - according to Andrew Neil - is mind boggling


    “The pardon is very broad, covering offenses “which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in” dating back to the beginning of 2014”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1863527669939216732?s=46

    How can anyone justify that? What if Biden committed a murder or a rape or child abuse or god knows. I can’t get my head around it

    I am NOT saying Hunter Biden did any of these things, I am saying that if he did then - as per my reading of these words - he is now immune from prosecution

    That actually goes far beyond the concept of “pardon”

    The Supreme Court ruled that President Trump has immunity so if he commits murder, rape or child abuse... you see where I'm going with this? Hunter Biden had a laptop and tax bill, and now a pardon. So what?
    Biden swore he would not do this. He swore that many times. He made a big thing out of it. His White House spokespeople repeated it. “No. Never. Not gonna happen. We are better than Trump”

    It was literally one of his campaigning principles - “I’m the kind of guy that respects the law, unlike Trump, I won’t pardon my son”

    How can you guys not see the FUCKING ENORMOUS PROBLEM HERE

    Trump sells himself as a chancer and a wise guy and a devious fuck who will nonetheless get things done. You can’t then sell yourself as the morally superior alternative then be easily as bad. Because it makes you WORSE
    Of course, it's ghastly behaviour. I'd rate Trump's actions to incite insurrection worse, but that doesn't excuse Biden's moral corruption. I've long suspected that both Biden and Trump have more criminality hidden away in their pasts too.

    I wonder how long it'll take the US to fix this very dangerous situation where their President's can basically do whatever they like. It can't be a sensible state of affairs.
    It'll take at least four years from late January 2025.
    Well Trump might of course pardon himself and then abolish the power of future Presidents to do such a thing as a bit of a final wheeze. More likely though he announces that he wants to fix the problem and uses it as excuse to postpone future elections.
    He might equally just go the whole hog.

    Abolish elections, declare himself President for life and name Musk as his successor.

    What would Americans be able to do with The National Guard and Armed Forces trumpifed and Musks satellites sat with nuclear warheads around the Globe.

    This is only ending one way... Civil War. Hopefully it'll dawn on the Yanks soon enough that civil disobedience is the only way to stop it.

    Mark my words, in 2 years time this will make the likes of Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin look like friendly pets
    With all due respect what utter bollocks.

    Trump derangement syndrome at its most ridiculous.
    Thats the sort of misplaced logic that Chamberlain came back from Berlin with

    Musk has pure Aphartheid blood as his DNA.

    They've given him carte blanche.
    Quick quiz: can anyone think of a politician with a more appropriate name for their beliefs than Eugene Terreblanche?
    Umberto Bossi he of the hard right
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,434
    It's the time of year when I update my addresses database so I can print out labels for Christmas cards.

    When I was younger, I would change the db because people had moved, or got married. This year, for the first time, it looks as though all the alterations are due to people dying. :(

    That's a sad thought. I need to get my nieces and nephews as separate entries, so I can send them cards directly rather than doing it via their parents...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Taz said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The wording of Biden’s pardon - according to Andrew Neil - is mind boggling


    “The pardon is very broad, covering offenses “which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in” dating back to the beginning of 2014”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1863527669939216732?s=46

    How can anyone justify that? What if Biden committed a murder or a rape or child abuse or god knows. I can’t get my head around it

    I am NOT saying Hunter Biden did any of these things, I am saying that if he did then - as per my reading of these words - he is now immune from prosecution

    That actually goes far beyond the concept of “pardon”

    The Supreme Court ruled that President Trump has immunity so if he commits murder, rape or child abuse... you see where I'm going with this? Hunter Biden had a laptop and tax bill, and now a pardon. So what?
    Biden swore he would not do this. He swore that many times. He made a big thing out of it. His White House spokespeople repeated it. “No. Never. Not gonna happen. We are better than Trump”

    It was literally one of his campaigning principles - “I’m the kind of guy that respects the law, unlike Trump, I won’t pardon my son”

    How can you guys not see the FUCKING ENORMOUS PROBLEM HERE

    Trump sells himself as a chancer and a wise guy and a devious fuck who will nonetheless get things done. You can’t then sell yourself as the morally superior alternative then be easily as bad. Because it makes you WORSE
    Of course, it's ghastly behaviour. I'd rate Trump's actions to incite insurrection worse, but that doesn't excuse Biden's moral corruption. I've long suspected that both Biden and Trump have more criminality hidden away in their pasts too.

    I wonder how long it'll take the US to fix this very dangerous situation where their President's can basically do whatever they like. It can't be a sensible state of affairs.
    It'll take at least four years from late January 2025.
    Well Trump might of course pardon himself and then abolish the power of future Presidents to do such a thing as a bit of a final wheeze. More likely though he announces that he wants to fix the problem and uses it as excuse to postpone future elections.
    He might equally just go the whole hog.

    Abolish elections, declare himself President for life and name Musk as his successor.

    What would Americans be able to do with The National Guard and Armed Forces trumpifed and Musks satellites sat with nuclear warheads around the Globe.

    This is only ending one way... Civil War. Hopefully it'll dawn on the Yanks soon enough that civil disobedience is the only way to stop it.

    Mark my words, in 2 years time this will make the likes of Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin look like friendly pets
    With all due respect what utter bollocks.

    Trump derangement syndrome at its most ridiculous.
    Thats the sort of misplaced logic that Chamberlain came back from Berlin with

    Musk has pure Aphartheid blood as his DNA.

    They've given him carte blanche.
    Quick quiz: can anyone think of a politician with a more appropriate name for their beliefs than Eugene Terreblanche?
    Trump
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    Pro_Rata said:

    Trying to think Democrat spin and construct an honourable explanation for Biden's actions. Not what I believe, but here is what I can come up with.

    "But, Donald Trump" does feature, not because he will pardon his mates, but more because of the possibility of 'revenge' lawfare against Hunter Biden and in particular his supposed dealings with Ukraine. (In this respect the dates in the pardon, if covering this, could be argued relevant). This might protect Ukraine as a nation from one route to undermining US public support for them in pursuit of a Russia friendly settlement, so national security could come into play.

    No, they should express a bit of sympathy for him as a father, and then crap all over him for the damage the pardon has done to the institution of the presidency.

    That would both be smart politics, and the right thing to do.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Sweden and Norway rethink cashless society plans over Russia security fears

    Rise in hybrid warfare and cyber-attacks blamed on pro-Russia groups prompt Nordic neighbours to backpedal"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/30/sweden-and-norway-rethink-cashless-society-plans-over-russia-security-fears

    'Because all Swedish payment systems were part of one ecosystem, an attack could bring society to a standstill, he said. “Pretty much any function that you do in society you have to use some sort of payment or verification analysis, either by electronic ID or electronic payment,” he said. “All of those would be at risk of undermining the functionality of the entire system in Sweden if it were to fail.”"

    I had to use cash on Saturday to pay for parking.

    The location is covered by a parking app, but what it was not covered by is cell service. Couldn't get an auth code on my phone.

    The parking meter had a contactless payment reader, which declined every card presented to it, presumably cos it couldn't contact the bank, cos there was no phone service...
    I always wonder why one of my banks always insists on an authorisation code for using its card for parking (the car park I most often use has a weak signal too). Presumably their sophisticated anti-fraud systems know that payments to Ringgo are for parking. Now if the payments are for the fraudster's own car, then surely that provides a very easy way to catch them. And if the car is stolen, why are the criminals bothering to pay for parking at all? It's all a complete mystery.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,434
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    On Gregg Wallace.

    I was never a fan of his, and he's been utterly stupid over a significant period of time. His 'apology' shows he does not understand why his behaviour was so poor.

    What he did was worth losing his job over. But I fear the pile-on might lead to something much worse. One day, one of these idiots will end up taking their own life over the pile-on. And I don't think that in any way fits the crime.

    As long as he does not get a media job again, let's all forget about him.

    Ah, you don't think that death fits the 'crime'.

    Well that's something then.
    I'm not quite sure how you make that out of what I said...
    "One day, one of these idiots will end up taking their own life over the pile-on. And I don't think that in any way fits the crime."
    Note; "in any way"

    My point is that Wallace has been a pillock, and probably shouldn't be doing the jobs he was doing, but the pile-on seems a bit of an over-reaction. He's out of his job; that should be enough to let others know the professional way to behave.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,932

    Leon said:

    The utter blistering hypocrisy of Biden and the Democrats

    They spend two years concocting often dubious law cases against Trump - basically trying anything to get him in jail. But that’s ok because the Democrats aren’t criminals and they don’t break the law like Trump so they are allowed to bend the law a bit ahem

    And now Biden flat out pardons his convicted criminal son. There will be an awful lot of Americans feeling very vindicated in their vote for Trump

    Why the Democratss were right to drop Biden: #28 in a series...
    Hunter's legal travails may be substantial, like a felony conviction for a felon packing a sidearm, but they are mere trifles compared to Tango man's charge sheet.
    You have no idea whether that's true.
    Lol Deluded or what. Have you been on Mars for the last few years.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,434
    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Trying to think Democrat spin and construct an honourable explanation for Biden's actions. Not what I believe, but here is what I can come up with.

    "But, Donald Trump" does feature, not because he will pardon his mates, but more because of the possibility of 'revenge' lawfare against Hunter Biden and in particular his supposed dealings with Ukraine. (In this respect the dates in the pardon, if covering this, could be argued relevant). This might protect Ukraine as a nation from one route to undermining US public support for them in pursuit of a Russia friendly settlement, so national security could come into play.

    No, they should express a bit of sympathy for him as a father, and then crap all over him for the damage the pardon has done to the institution of the presidency.

    That would both be smart politics, and the right thing to do.
    As I believe I said back at the end of Obama's presidency, I look forward to the first (modern?) president who does not issue any reprieves out of principle.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    Taz said:

    Taz said:
    Anything but the economy which theyre totally screwing up

    Manufacturing PMIs worst for 9 months
    He will be cropping up on Loose Women next to talk about it.

    What a shit show they are turning out to be.
    Political.parties are all much of the same type....Useless. Labour seem worse than ever, ineffective and driven by socialist dogma.

    You can't polish a turd but Starmer is going to have a go at it. They never learn.
    I genuinely fell for the way they presented themselves as a ‘government in waiting bringing competence and stability

    I was, like many voters, rather mugged off.

    This is continuity Sunak. No more no less.

    So far so shit.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,434
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    The utter blistering hypocrisy of Biden and the Democrats

    They spend two years concocting often dubious law cases against Trump - basically trying anything to get him in jail. But that’s ok because the Democrats aren’t criminals and they don’t break the law like Trump so they are allowed to bend the law a bit ahem

    And now Biden flat out pardons his convicted criminal son. There will be an awful lot of Americans feeling very vindicated in their vote for Trump

    Why the Democratss were right to drop Biden: #28 in a series...
    Hunter's legal travails may be substantial, like a felony conviction for a felon packing a sidearm, but they are mere trifles compared to Tango man's charge sheet.
    You have no idea whether that's true.
    Thirty plus felony convictions, an adjudicated case of rape and video evidence that he figure headed the riots suggest I do.
    Do you actually believe he raped E Jean Carroll?
    Why do you always ask questions?
    What's wrong with asking questions
    Have you ever tried having a debate with someone who only ever asks questions?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099

    Have you ever tried having a debate with someone who only ever asks questions?

    Like a toddler...
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    The utter blistering hypocrisy of Biden and the Democrats

    They spend two years concocting often dubious law cases against Trump - basically trying anything to get him in jail. But that’s ok because the Democrats aren’t criminals and they don’t break the law like Trump so they are allowed to bend the law a bit ahem

    And now Biden flat out pardons his convicted criminal son. There will be an awful lot of Americans feeling very vindicated in their vote for Trump

    Why the Democratss were right to drop Biden: #28 in a series...
    Hunter's legal travails may be substantial, like a felony conviction for a felon packing a sidearm, but they are mere trifles compared to Tango man's charge sheet.
    You have no idea whether that's true.
    Thirty plus felony convictions, an adjudicated case of rape and video evidence that he figure headed the riots suggest I do.
    Do you actually believe he raped E Jean Carroll?
    Why do you always ask questions?
    What's wrong with asking questions
    Have you ever tried having a debate with someone who only ever asks questions?
    Why, have you?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,916
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:
    Anything but the economy which theyre totally screwing up

    Manufacturing PMIs worst for 9 months
    He will be cropping up on Loose Women next to talk about it.

    What a shit show they are turning out to be.
    Political.parties are all much of the same type....Useless. Labour seem worse than ever, ineffective and driven by socialist dogma.

    You can't polish a turd but Starmer is going to have a go at it. They never learn.
    I genuinely fell for the way they presented themselves as a ‘government in waiting bringing competence and stability

    I was, like many voters, rather mugged off.

    This is continuity Sunak. No more no less.

    So far so shit.
    They seem to be more concerned about a prat on telly saying some questionable things than actually running the country, which is rather worrying.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141

    Leon said:

    The utter blistering hypocrisy of Biden and the Democrats

    They spend two years concocting often dubious law cases against Trump - basically trying anything to get him in jail. But that’s ok because the Democrats aren’t criminals and they don’t break the law like Trump so they are allowed to bend the law a bit ahem

    And now Biden flat out pardons his convicted criminal son. There will be an awful lot of Americans feeling very vindicated in their vote for Trump

    Why the Democratss were right to drop Biden: #28 in a series...
    Hunter's legal travails may be substantial, like a felony conviction for a felon packing a sidearm, but they are mere trifles compared to Tango man's charge sheet.
    You have no idea whether that's true.
    Thirty plus felony convictions, an adjudicated case of rape and video evidence that he figure headed the riots suggest I do.
    Do you actually believe he raped E Jean Carroll?
    Pretty sure he grabbed her by the pussy.
  • kenObikenObi Posts: 211
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The wording of Biden’s pardon - according to Andrew Neil - is mind boggling


    “The pardon is very broad, covering offenses “which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in” dating back to the beginning of 2014”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1863527669939216732?s=46

    How can anyone justify that? What if Biden committed a murder or a rape or child abuse or god knows. I can’t get my head around it

    I am NOT saying Hunter Biden did any of these things, I am saying that if he did then - as per my reading of these words - he is now immune from prosecution

    That actually goes far beyond the concept of “pardon”

    The Supreme Court ruled that President Trump has immunity so if he commits murder, rape or child abuse... you see where I'm going with this? Hunter Biden had a laptop and tax bill, and now a pardon. So what?
    Biden swore he would not do this. He swore that many times. He made a big thing out of it. His White House spokespeople repeated it. “No. Never. Not gonna happen. We are better than Trump”

    It was literally one of his campaigning principles - “I’m the kind of guy that respects the law, unlike Trump, I won’t pardon my son”

    How can you guys not see the FUCKING ENORMOUS PROBLEM HERE

    Trump sells himself as a chancer and a wise guy and a devious fuck who will nonetheless get things done. You can’t then sell yourself as the morally superior alternative then be easily as bad. Because it makes you WORSE
    It's bad.
    It tarnishes any legacy (what legacy).
    There have been worse pardons on both sides.

    The idea that this makes Biden look worse than Trump is simply ludicrous.

    It will have absolutely no impact on the 2028 election.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682

    It's the time of year when I update my addresses database so I can print out labels for Christmas cards.

    When I was younger, I would change the db because people had moved, or got married. This year, for the first time, it looks as though all the alterations are due to people dying. :(

    That's a sad thought. I need to get my nieces and nephews as separate entries, so I can send them cards directly rather than doing it via their parents...

    Same. This started for me a few years ago and there us a slow steady evaporation of contacts. Some new ones of course but a fair few where husband and wife are now only wife.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143

    Leon said:

    The utter blistering hypocrisy of Biden and the Democrats

    They spend two years concocting often dubious law cases against Trump - basically trying anything to get him in jail. But that’s ok because the Democrats aren’t criminals and they don’t break the law like Trump so they are allowed to bend the law a bit ahem

    And now Biden flat out pardons his convicted criminal son. There will be an awful lot of Americans feeling very vindicated in their vote for Trump

    Why the Democratss were right to drop Biden: #28 in a series...
    Hunter's legal travails may be substantial, like a felony conviction for a felon packing a sidearm, but they are mere trifles compared to Tango man's charge sheet.
    You have no idea whether that's true.
    Thirty plus felony convictions, an adjudicated case of rape and video evidence that he figure headed the riots suggest I do.
    Do you actually believe he raped E Jean Carroll?
    Why do you always ask questions?
    To be fair it is clear he has a lot of learning to do.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    Biden has clearly said “sod it, nothing to lose so might as well”. He’s very wrong to do so, but you can understand it on a human level.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    kenObi said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The wording of Biden’s pardon - according to Andrew Neil - is mind boggling


    “The pardon is very broad, covering offenses “which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in” dating back to the beginning of 2014”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1863527669939216732?s=46

    How can anyone justify that? What if Biden committed a murder or a rape or child abuse or god knows. I can’t get my head around it

    I am NOT saying Hunter Biden did any of these things, I am saying that if he did then - as per my reading of these words - he is now immune from prosecution

    That actually goes far beyond the concept of “pardon”

    The Supreme Court ruled that President Trump has immunity so if he commits murder, rape or child abuse... you see where I'm going with this? Hunter Biden had a laptop and tax bill, and now a pardon. So what?
    Biden swore he would not do this. He swore that many times. He made a big thing out of it. His White House spokespeople repeated it. “No. Never. Not gonna happen. We are better than Trump”

    It was literally one of his campaigning principles - “I’m the kind of guy that respects the law, unlike Trump, I won’t pardon my son”

    How can you guys not see the FUCKING ENORMOUS PROBLEM HERE

    Trump sells himself as a chancer and a wise guy and a devious fuck who will nonetheless get things done. You can’t then sell yourself as the morally superior alternative then be easily as bad. Because it makes you WORSE
    It's bad.
    It tarnishes any legacy (what legacy).
    There have been worse pardons on both sides.

    The idea that this makes Biden look worse than Trump is simply ludicrous.

    It will have absolutely no impact on the 2028 election.
    Yes, the moral high ground over Donald Trump and the GOP is a simply enormous piece of territory and the Dems remain comfortably aboard it.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,000
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    *Apparently* there were US air strikes against Iranian-backed militia in eastern Syria last night.

    Not seeing this reported anywhere sane, but it was on Twix.

    Yes, I saw that, but hesitated to post it without confirmation.
    The source was a pretty regular Syrian conflict reporter, FWIW.
    If true, that means Russia and the USA are on the same side?!?
    No. Both Russia and Iran back Assad (though I would not be surprised if Iran was sponsoring other groups as well.)
    Thankyou. It’s so incredibly complex

    I’ve seen some hideous evidence that these rebels - or some of them - are easily as bad as isis. Islamist maniacs who will impose brutal sharia law a la Taliban

    Which leaves me in the impossibly horrible position of maybe hoping Assad prevails
    Initial reports on the ground from Aleppo suggest not.
    But then again, similar claims of reasonableness were actually made for ISIS in the very early days.
    There are, I am afraid, grotesque videos. I don’t think they are fake

    This is probably ISIS 2.0 and I reckon anyone hoping for the rebels to be good guys are like those who hoped the new Taliban would be more reasonable. That’s the Taliban who have just made it illegal for women to speak
    Bad guys of different types killing each other is no bad thing.
    It is if you’ve been to Syria and met Syrians and had a wonderful time back in 1998 and held out a lot of hope that this country - quite secular, pluralistic, a safe place for minorities like Christians, despite the horrors of the regime - might actually evolve into an exemplar. Maybe even one day a democracy

    What has happened since is unutterably bad. There is no upside. At all
    More backwash of the Iraq invasion.
    Possibly the greatest unforced error by western powers EVER

    Britain’s decision to enter WW1 was worse if you’re a Briton
    Ahem. The Fourth Crusade says hello.
    I propose Darien Scheme. 20% of the entire monetary wealth of Scotland pissed away (or 500 billion in whole UK terms).
    On the contrary - by forcing out all non-Scottish investment and barring its colonies from trading with Scotland/Darien, England managed to subsume a substantial neigbouring country as well gain as a source of cheap cannon fodder.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Trying to think Democrat spin and construct an honourable explanation for Biden's actions. Not what I believe, but here is what I can come up with.

    "But, Donald Trump" does feature, not because he will pardon his mates, but more because of the possibility of 'revenge' lawfare against Hunter Biden and in particular his supposed dealings with Ukraine. (In this respect the dates in the pardon, if covering this, could be argued relevant). This might protect Ukraine as a nation from one route to undermining US public support for them in pursuit of a Russia friendly settlement, so national security could come into play.

    No, they should express a bit of sympathy for him as a father, and then crap all over him for the damage the pardon has done to the institution of the presidency.

    That would both be smart politics, and the right thing to do.
    As I believe I said back at the end of Obama's presidency, I look forward to the first (modern?) president who does not issue any reprieves out of principle.
    Obama actually set a decent precedent in pardoning a whole class of felons - those serving long sentences merely for drug possession.

    Such pardons tend to have bipartisan support, and could perhaps be formalised through a strengthened pardons commission, removing much of the arbitrary nature of the pardons process. It's a power we've also retained, and it would be hard to scrap completely owing to its constitutional status.

    There's a place for the power - just not for its arbitrary and partial exercise.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,434
    Pro_Rata said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    The utter blistering hypocrisy of Biden and the Democrats

    They spend two years concocting often dubious law cases against Trump - basically trying anything to get him in jail. But that’s ok because the Democrats aren’t criminals and they don’t break the law like Trump so they are allowed to bend the law a bit ahem

    And now Biden flat out pardons his convicted criminal son. There will be an awful lot of Americans feeling very vindicated in their vote for Trump

    Why the Democratss were right to drop Biden: #28 in a series...
    Hunter's legal travails may be substantial, like a felony conviction for a felon packing a sidearm, but they are mere trifles compared to Tango man's charge sheet.
    You have no idea whether that's true.
    Thirty plus felony convictions, an adjudicated case of rape and video evidence that he figure headed the riots suggest I do.
    Do you actually believe he raped E Jean Carroll?
    Why do you always ask questions?
    What's wrong with asking questions
    Have you ever tried having a debate with someone who only ever asks questions?
    Why, have you?
    How sure can you be?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,125
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:
    Anything but the economy which theyre totally screwing up

    Manufacturing PMIs worst for 9 months
    He will be cropping up on Loose Women next to talk about it.

    What a shit show they are turning out to be.
    Political.parties are all much of the same type....Useless. Labour seem worse than ever, ineffective and driven by socialist dogma.

    You can't polish a turd but Starmer is going to have a go at it. They never learn.
    I genuinely fell for the way they presented themselves as a ‘government in waiting bringing competence and stability

    I was, like many voters, rather mugged off.

    This is continuity Sunak. No more no less.

    So far so shit.
    It's much worse than continuity Sunak. Sunak wasn't exactly a genius, but left the country with the fastest growth in the G7, which Starmer has promptly wrecked. And Starmer hasn't had to deal with multiple crises including the aftermath of the Liz Truss budget and the pandemic, the energy price shock and the acute phase of the war in Ukraine. God knows what a terrible state this country would be in if he did.

    And that's not to mention the WFA, 2TK or Free Gear controversies - all in just six months.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,144
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Biden's pardon relegates his legacy even more to being just an interregnum in the Trump era.

    A four year break on a tide of shit is not such a terrible legacy.
    Biden has not been a bad President even after this faux pas which it would be a shame if it tarnished his legacy.
    He’s doing it, because he fears Trump will use all the powers soon to be at his disposal to enact revenge upon his son.

    Which doesn’t make it right, but makes it more understandable.

    The biggest likely consequence is that it will make it easier for Trump to get away with pardoning all the Jan 6 rioters.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442
    kinabalu said:

    kenObi said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The wording of Biden’s pardon - according to Andrew Neil - is mind boggling


    “The pardon is very broad, covering offenses “which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in” dating back to the beginning of 2014”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1863527669939216732?s=46

    How can anyone justify that? What if Biden committed a murder or a rape or child abuse or god knows. I can’t get my head around it

    I am NOT saying Hunter Biden did any of these things, I am saying that if he did then - as per my reading of these words - he is now immune from prosecution

    That actually goes far beyond the concept of “pardon”

    The Supreme Court ruled that President Trump has immunity so if he commits murder, rape or child abuse... you see where I'm going with this? Hunter Biden had a laptop and tax bill, and now a pardon. So what?
    Biden swore he would not do this. He swore that many times. He made a big thing out of it. His White House spokespeople repeated it. “No. Never. Not gonna happen. We are better than Trump”

    It was literally one of his campaigning principles - “I’m the kind of guy that respects the law, unlike Trump, I won’t pardon my son”

    How can you guys not see the FUCKING ENORMOUS PROBLEM HERE

    Trump sells himself as a chancer and a wise guy and a devious fuck who will nonetheless get things done. You can’t then sell yourself as the morally superior alternative then be easily as bad. Because it makes you WORSE
    It's bad.
    It tarnishes any legacy (what legacy).
    There have been worse pardons on both sides.

    The idea that this makes Biden look worse than Trump is simply ludicrous.

    It will have absolutely no impact on the 2028 election.
    Yes, the moral high ground over Donald Trump and the GOP is a simply enormous piece of territory and the Dems remain comfortably aboard it.
    Yes, this was a bad use of the power of pardon.

    But you would have to be a much better politician and a much worse father to leave your son to the tender mercies of MAGA justice.

    And the idea that this will take the guardrails away from Trump doing whatever he damn well pleases... That's for the birds. Those guardrails were holograms, and someone turned the power off ages ago.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,144
    kinabalu said:

    kenObi said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The wording of Biden’s pardon - according to Andrew Neil - is mind boggling


    “The pardon is very broad, covering offenses “which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in” dating back to the beginning of 2014”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1863527669939216732?s=46

    How can anyone justify that? What if Biden committed a murder or a rape or child abuse or god knows. I can’t get my head around it

    I am NOT saying Hunter Biden did any of these things, I am saying that if he did then - as per my reading of these words - he is now immune from prosecution

    That actually goes far beyond the concept of “pardon”

    The Supreme Court ruled that President Trump has immunity so if he commits murder, rape or child abuse... you see where I'm going with this? Hunter Biden had a laptop and tax bill, and now a pardon. So what?
    Biden swore he would not do this. He swore that many times. He made a big thing out of it. His White House spokespeople repeated it. “No. Never. Not gonna happen. We are better than Trump”

    It was literally one of his campaigning principles - “I’m the kind of guy that respects the law, unlike Trump, I won’t pardon my son”

    How can you guys not see the FUCKING ENORMOUS PROBLEM HERE

    Trump sells himself as a chancer and a wise guy and a devious fuck who will nonetheless get things done. You can’t then sell yourself as the morally superior alternative then be easily as bad. Because it makes you WORSE
    It's bad.
    It tarnishes any legacy (what legacy).
    There have been worse pardons on both sides.

    The idea that this makes Biden look worse than Trump is simply ludicrous.

    It will have absolutely no impact on the 2028 election.
    Yes, the moral high ground over Donald Trump and the GOP is a simply enormous piece of territory and the Dems remain comfortably aboard it.
    But there are periods of history - and we may well be entering one - when the moral high ground is only of relevance to posterity, by which time those who occupied it will mostly be dead.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Trying to think Democrat spin and construct an honourable explanation for Biden's actions. Not what I believe, but here is what I can come up with.

    "But, Donald Trump" does feature, not because he will pardon his mates, but more because of the possibility of 'revenge' lawfare against Hunter Biden and in particular his supposed dealings with Ukraine. (In this respect the dates in the pardon, if covering this, could be argued relevant). This might protect Ukraine as a nation from one route to undermining US public support for them in pursuit of a Russia friendly settlement, so national security could come into play.

    No, they should express a bit of sympathy for him as a father, and then crap all over him for the damage the pardon has done to the institution of the presidency.

    That would both be smart politics, and the right thing to do.
    As I believe I said back at the end of Obama's presidency, I look forward to the first (modern?) president who does not issue any reprieves out of principle.
    Obama actually set a decent precedent in pardoning a whole class of felons - those serving long sentences merely for drug possession.

    Such pardons tend to have bipartisan support, and could perhaps be formalised through a strengthened pardons commission, removing much of the arbitrary nature of the pardons process. It's a power we've also retained, and it would be hard to scrap completely owing to its constitutional status.

    There's a place for the power - just not for its arbitrary and partial exercise.
    I remember the Sarah Kruzan case. Someone it is arguable should never have been incarcerated.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    biggles said:

    Biden has clearly said “sod it, nothing to lose so might as well”. He’s very wrong to do so, but you can understand it on a human level.

    His son may have been a wrong un but blood is thicker than water.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    kenObi said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The wording of Biden’s pardon - according to Andrew Neil - is mind boggling


    “The pardon is very broad, covering offenses “which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in” dating back to the beginning of 2014”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1863527669939216732?s=46

    How can anyone justify that? What if Biden committed a murder or a rape or child abuse or god knows. I can’t get my head around it

    I am NOT saying Hunter Biden did any of these things, I am saying that if he did then - as per my reading of these words - he is now immune from prosecution

    That actually goes far beyond the concept of “pardon”

    The Supreme Court ruled that President Trump has immunity so if he commits murder, rape or child abuse... you see where I'm going with this? Hunter Biden had a laptop and tax bill, and now a pardon. So what?
    Biden swore he would not do this. He swore that many times. He made a big thing out of it. His White House spokespeople repeated it. “No. Never. Not gonna happen. We are better than Trump”

    It was literally one of his campaigning principles - “I’m the kind of guy that respects the law, unlike Trump, I won’t pardon my son”

    How can you guys not see the FUCKING ENORMOUS PROBLEM HERE

    Trump sells himself as a chancer and a wise guy and a devious fuck who will nonetheless get things done. You can’t then sell yourself as the morally superior alternative then be easily as bad. Because it makes you WORSE
    It's bad.
    It tarnishes any legacy (what legacy).
    There have been worse pardons on both sides.

    The idea that this makes Biden look worse than Trump is simply ludicrous.

    It will have absolutely no impact on the 2028 election.
    Nor the 2026 midterms which come first and will as usual be a referendum on the record of the President and Congress midterm
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    edited December 2

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    *Apparently* there were US air strikes against Iranian-backed militia in eastern Syria last night.

    Not seeing this reported anywhere sane, but it was on Twix.

    Yes, I saw that, but hesitated to post it without confirmation.
    The source was a pretty regular Syrian conflict reporter, FWIW.
    If true, that means Russia and the USA are on the same side?!?
    No. Both Russia and Iran back Assad (though I would not be surprised if Iran was sponsoring other groups as well.)
    Thankyou. It’s so incredibly complex

    I’ve seen some hideous evidence that these rebels - or some of them - are easily as bad as isis. Islamist maniacs who will impose brutal sharia law a la Taliban

    Which leaves me in the impossibly horrible position of maybe hoping Assad prevails
    Initial reports on the ground from Aleppo suggest not.
    But then again, similar claims of reasonableness were actually made for ISIS in the very early days.
    There are, I am afraid, grotesque videos. I don’t think they are fake

    This is probably ISIS 2.0 and I reckon anyone hoping for the rebels to be good guys are like those who hoped the new Taliban would be more reasonable. That’s the Taliban who have just made it illegal for women to speak
    Bad guys of different types killing each other is no bad thing.
    It is if you’ve been to Syria and met Syrians and had a wonderful time back in 1998 and held out a lot of hope that this country - quite secular, pluralistic, a safe place for minorities like Christians, despite the horrors of the regime - might actually evolve into an exemplar. Maybe even one day a democracy

    What has happened since is unutterably bad. There is no upside. At all
    More backwash of the Iraq invasion.
    Possibly the greatest unforced error by western powers EVER

    Britain’s decision to enter WW1 was worse if you’re a Briton
    Gulf War 1 was right and proportionate. Gulf War 2 was not only immoral and illegal, it was tactically and strategically disastrous.

    Blair was a very smart PM and extremely shrewd about the main chance but his backing of W was a huge mistake, even if the Tories were all for it.
    Not necessarily, Iraq is still free of Saddam and his family and has an elected government. Afghanistan by contrast is back in Taliban hands and Bin Laden was killed in Pakistan anyway.

    Given the growth of militants in Syria since though Assad is the better of 2 evils there
    Why? Are you aware of what Assad's been doing over there?
    No matter what he has done, he is still better than the Islamist former Al Qaeda linked rebels opposing him
    Not all the rebels are 'Al Qaeda linked'.

    And Assad himself has cooperated with ISIL when it suited him.

    https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/4698

    Don't swallow Russian propaganda.
    It was Assad's army supported by the Russians who defeated ISIL in Syria.

    (Snip)
    Bullshit, as I showed with my links yesterday. Russia and Assad were more concerned with destroying the other rebels, and as my link above shows, even paid ISIL.
    You showed sod all, the Kurds only held ISIL at bay from the very north of Syria, it was Assad's army and Russian airstrikes that defeated ISIL in the rest of Syria.

    Clearly they didn't defeat the other largely AQ linked rebels enough though, for even as ISIL have largely been defeated in Syria the Al Qaeda linked rebels haven't
    " Moscow officially portrayed its intervention as an anti-IS campaign and publicly declared support for the "patriotic Syrian opposition", the vast majority of its bombings were focused on destroying bases of the Syrian opposition militias of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) and Southern Front."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_against_the_Islamic_State

    The battle that rid Syria of IS was an American/SDF one:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Baghuz_Fawqani

    And as I've pointed out in the past, IS still exist in Syria, though they do not really control any territory.
    Baghuz Fawqani was right on the Iraq and Syria border, it was Assad's troops forcing ISIL out of the likes of Palmyra backed by the Russians that largely defeated ISIL in Syria

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/3/3/palmyra-russia-backed-syrian-army-retakes-ancient-city#:~:text=The Syrian army said it,driven out eight months before.
    You keep on repeating the same shit, and it's wrong, as my links show. But at least you've changed your view to 'largely', which is at least an improved position from your "It was Assad's army supported by the Russians who defeated ISIL in Syria." rubbish.

    You now seem to be saying: "Yeah, but that place in Syria wasn't really Syria..." Which is an absurd position to take. You also ignore my point about the Russians and Assad concentrating most of their fire on non-ISIL groups.

    The situation in Syria was, and is, an almighty mess. But trying to make the Russians out to be the good guys over there is a rather odd position to take.
    No it remains right. Had Assad fallen ISIL and AQ linked rebels would have taken over most of the government not the FSA. The FSA may have defeated ISIL in patches on the edge of Syria but it was Assad and his troops supported by the Russians who removed ISIL from areas like Palmyra.

    Indeed it is now AQ linked rebels leading the opposition to Assad, not the FSA
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,144
    kenObi said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The wording of Biden’s pardon - according to Andrew Neil - is mind boggling


    “The pardon is very broad, covering offenses “which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in” dating back to the beginning of 2014”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1863527669939216732?s=46

    How can anyone justify that? What if Biden committed a murder or a rape or child abuse or god knows. I can’t get my head around it

    I am NOT saying Hunter Biden did any of these things, I am saying that if he did then - as per my reading of these words - he is now immune from prosecution

    That actually goes far beyond the concept of “pardon”

    The Supreme Court ruled that President Trump has immunity so if he commits murder, rape or child abuse... you see where I'm going with this? Hunter Biden had a laptop and tax bill, and now a pardon. So what?
    Biden swore he would not do this. He swore that many times. He made a big thing out of it. His White House spokespeople repeated it. “No. Never. Not gonna happen. We are better than Trump”

    It was literally one of his campaigning principles - “I’m the kind of guy that respects the law, unlike Trump, I won’t pardon my son”

    How can you guys not see the FUCKING ENORMOUS PROBLEM HERE

    Trump sells himself as a chancer and a wise guy and a devious fuck who will nonetheless get things done. You can’t then sell yourself as the morally superior alternative then be easily as bad. Because it makes you WORSE
    It's bad.
    It tarnishes any legacy (what legacy).
    There have been worse pardons on both sides.

    The idea that this makes Biden look worse than Trump is simply ludicrous.

    It will have absolutely no impact on the 2028 election.
    With posts like that, our Leon simply reminds us why he’s spent his life observing, rather than doing.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    IanB2 said:

    The biggest likely consequence is that it will make it easier for Trump to get away with pardoning all the Jan 6 rioters.

    Nope

    No impact either way

    Trump will pardon them, was always going to pardon them, was always going to "get away" with pardoning them.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620
    Foxy said:

    The drug addled Space Clown giving money to Roderick Spode?

    My money would be on him keeling over from cirrhosis before the GE.

    Lol!
    What's to stop Farage and Tice winding up Reform Ltd and splitting the cash?
    The world was a much safer place when Musk was focused on sending himself to Mars.
  • kenObikenObi Posts: 211
    Fishing said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:
    Anything but the economy which theyre totally screwing up

    Manufacturing PMIs worst for 9 months
    He will be cropping up on Loose Women next to talk about it.

    What a shit show they are turning out to be.
    Political.parties are all much of the same type....Useless. Labour seem worse than ever, ineffective and driven by socialist dogma.

    You can't polish a turd but Starmer is going to have a go at it. They never learn.
    I genuinely fell for the way they presented themselves as a ‘government in waiting bringing competence and stability

    I was, like many voters, rather mugged off.

    This is continuity Sunak. No more no less.

    So far so shit.
    It's much worse than continuity Sunak. Sunak wasn't exactly a genius, but left the country with the fastest growth in the G7, which Starmer has promptly wrecked. And Starmer hasn't had to deal with multiple crises including the aftermath of the Liz Truss budget and the pandemic, the energy price shock and the acute phase of the war in Ukraine. God knows what a terrible state this country would be in if he did.

    And that's not to mention the WFA, 2TK or Free Gear controversies - all in just six months.
    We didn't really have the fastest growth.
    Unless you mean we had a single quarter (Q1) where growth zipped along at massive increase of 0.7% - bouncing back from a technical recession.

    On an annualised basis it was worse than France and miles worse than USA

    Since 2019, it has been worse than every G7 country bar Germany.

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    Taz said:

    It's the time of year when I update my addresses database so I can print out labels for Christmas cards.

    When I was younger, I would change the db because people had moved, or got married. This year, for the first time, it looks as though all the alterations are due to people dying. :(

    That's a sad thought. I need to get my nieces and nephews as separate entries, so I can send them cards directly rather than doing it via their parents...

    This year I joined a Facebook group for a company I used to work at for nostalgia reasons and found out someone I shared an office with in the early nineties when she was early twenties died in 2018.

    She was a lovely person and it was very sad. Aggressive cancer . Dead within a few weeks after finding out.

    A couple of other people I worked with have died this last year. All younger than me too.

    It’s one of the reasons I have decided to retire early.

    Enjoy the time I have left.
    There’s a tipping point at about 40 when you understand what mortality actually is I think. Sometimes earlier for some, but rarely later. It gives you a sense of how things grow and change, and maybe drives some conservatism.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,434
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    *Apparently* there were US air strikes against Iranian-backed militia in eastern Syria last night.

    Not seeing this reported anywhere sane, but it was on Twix.

    Yes, I saw that, but hesitated to post it without confirmation.
    The source was a pretty regular Syrian conflict reporter, FWIW.
    If true, that means Russia and the USA are on the same side?!?
    No. Both Russia and Iran back Assad (though I would not be surprised if Iran was sponsoring other groups as well.)
    Thankyou. It’s so incredibly complex

    I’ve seen some hideous evidence that these rebels - or some of them - are easily as bad as isis. Islamist maniacs who will impose brutal sharia law a la Taliban

    Which leaves me in the impossibly horrible position of maybe hoping Assad prevails
    Initial reports on the ground from Aleppo suggest not.
    But then again, similar claims of reasonableness were actually made for ISIS in the very early days.
    There are, I am afraid, grotesque videos. I don’t think they are fake

    This is probably ISIS 2.0 and I reckon anyone hoping for the rebels to be good guys are like those who hoped the new Taliban would be more reasonable. That’s the Taliban who have just made it illegal for women to speak
    Bad guys of different types killing each other is no bad thing.
    It is if you’ve been to Syria and met Syrians and had a wonderful time back in 1998 and held out a lot of hope that this country - quite secular, pluralistic, a safe place for minorities like Christians, despite the horrors of the regime - might actually evolve into an exemplar. Maybe even one day a democracy

    What has happened since is unutterably bad. There is no upside. At all
    More backwash of the Iraq invasion.
    Possibly the greatest unforced error by western powers EVER

    Britain’s decision to enter WW1 was worse if you’re a Briton
    Gulf War 1 was right and proportionate. Gulf War 2 was not only immoral and illegal, it was tactically and strategically disastrous.

    Blair was a very smart PM and extremely shrewd about the main chance but his backing of W was a huge mistake, even if the Tories were all for it.
    Not necessarily, Iraq is still free of Saddam and his family and has an elected government. Afghanistan by contrast is back in Taliban hands and Bin Laden was killed in Pakistan anyway.

    Given the growth of militants in Syria since though Assad is the better of 2 evils there
    Why? Are you aware of what Assad's been doing over there?
    No matter what he has done, he is still better than the Islamist former Al Qaeda linked rebels opposing him
    Not all the rebels are 'Al Qaeda linked'.

    And Assad himself has cooperated with ISIL when it suited him.

    https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/4698

    Don't swallow Russian propaganda.
    It was Assad's army supported by the Russians who defeated ISIL in Syria.

    (Snip)
    Bullshit, as I showed with my links yesterday. Russia and Assad were more concerned with destroying the other rebels, and as my link above shows, even paid ISIL.
    You showed sod all, the Kurds only held ISIL at bay from the very north of Syria, it was Assad's army and Russian airstrikes that defeated ISIL in the rest of Syria.

    Clearly they didn't defeat the other largely AQ linked rebels enough though, for even as ISIL have largely been defeated in Syria the Al Qaeda linked rebels haven't
    " Moscow officially portrayed its intervention as an anti-IS campaign and publicly declared support for the "patriotic Syrian opposition", the vast majority of its bombings were focused on destroying bases of the Syrian opposition militias of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) and Southern Front."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_against_the_Islamic_State

    The battle that rid Syria of IS was an American/SDF one:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Baghuz_Fawqani

    And as I've pointed out in the past, IS still exist in Syria, though they do not really control any territory.
    Baghuz Fawqani was right on the Iraq and Syria border, it was Assad's troops forcing ISIL out of the likes of Palmyra backed by the Russians that largely defeated ISIL in Syria

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/3/3/palmyra-russia-backed-syrian-army-retakes-ancient-city#:~:text=The Syrian army said it,driven out eight months before.
    You keep on repeating the same shit, and it's wrong, as my links show. But at least you've changed your view to 'largely', which is at least an improved position from your "It was Assad's army supported by the Russians who defeated ISIL in Syria." rubbish.

    You now seem to be saying: "Yeah, but that place in Syria wasn't really Syria..." Which is an absurd position to take. You also ignore my point about the Russians and Assad concentrating most of their fire on non-ISIL groups.

    The situation in Syria was, and is, an almighty mess. But trying to make the Russians out to be the good guys over there is a rather odd position to take.
    No it remains right. Had Assad fallen ISIL and AQ linked rebels would have taken over most of the government not the FSA. The FSA may have defeated ISIL in patches on the edge of Syria but it was Assad and his troops supported by the Russians who removed ISIL from areas like Palmyra.

    Indeed it is now AQ linked rebels leading the opposition to Assad, not the FSA
    "areas like Palmyra" != Syria.

    And you also ignore the atrocities Assad and the Russians committed against non-ISIS, not-AQ people. And not all the rebels are Muslim extremists, by a long shot.

    You are swallowing Russian propaganda hook, line and sinker. You may want to stare deep into your soul to ask why that is.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,879
    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting viewpoint about the riots.

    "One of the riots’ ironies (if they were merely an episode and not the shape of things to come) was that liberal intellectuals rediscovered the social value of punishment, which they had previously denied, both on pragmatic and philosophical grounds. Punishment did not work, they had long argued: it neither deterred nor reformed. Besides, it was unjust, merely cruel and vengeful, for wrongdoers were the victims of their circumstances. What they needed was a moral form of physical therapy, or rehabilitation.

    Nothing like this was heard during the riots. What was needed in response to them, the liberals maintained, was severe and rapidly administered punishment (with which I wholeheartedly agree). If rioters could count on a few years’ prison time, there would be fewer of them in years to come, no matter their feelings of resentment. There was no talk of rehabilitation. No psychologist was consulted as to how the rioters should learn to reorder their thoughts so that they became good citizens or to manage their anger so that they did not act on it. No one, as far as I noticed, suggested that rioters were the victims of their circumstances, and therefore the true victims of their own behavior."

    https://www.city-journal.org/article/britains-long-hot-summer

    I don't know any 'liberals' (whatever they are through the author's spectacles) who think 'punishment never works'. It is far more along the lines of punishment AND other interventions.

    Having skimmed the piece, I think Theodore Dalrymple is rather playng chess with his straw men.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    @PeoplesMomentum
    'Appalling rhetoric from the Labour Government as it panders to the far-right.'
    https://x.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1863531707674005907
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,668
    kenObi said:

    Fishing said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:
    Anything but the economy which theyre totally screwing up

    Manufacturing PMIs worst for 9 months
    He will be cropping up on Loose Women next to talk about it.

    What a shit show they are turning out to be.
    Political.parties are all much of the same type....Useless. Labour seem worse than ever, ineffective and driven by socialist dogma.

    You can't polish a turd but Starmer is going to have a go at it. They never learn.
    I genuinely fell for the way they presented themselves as a ‘government in waiting bringing competence and stability

    I was, like many voters, rather mugged off.

    This is continuity Sunak. No more no less.

    So far so shit.
    It's much worse than continuity Sunak. Sunak wasn't exactly a genius, but left the country with the fastest growth in the G7, which Starmer has promptly wrecked. And Starmer hasn't had to deal with multiple crises including the aftermath of the Liz Truss budget and the pandemic, the energy price shock and the acute phase of the war in Ukraine. God knows what a terrible state this country would be in if he did.

    And that's not to mention the WFA, 2TK or Free Gear controversies - all in just six months.
    We didn't really have the fastest growth.
    Unless you mean we had a single quarter (Q1) where growth zipped along at massive increase of 0.7% - bouncing back from a technical recession.

    On an annualised basis it was worse than France and miles worse than USA

    Since 2019, it has been worse than every G7 country bar Germany.

    The very notion that there is any evidence that growth has been "promptly wrecked" by a change of administration within 5 months is laughable.

    Even the growth forecasts looking out to 2026 and beyond are only down by <0.5pp over the March 2024 statement, by comparison with the >1.0pp after the Nov 2023 statement.

    There's plenty to be wary of with this government, but moaning about revisions to growth projections is not (yet) one of them.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,879
    Dopermean said:

    Foxy said:

    The drug addled Space Clown giving money to Roderick Spode?

    My money would be on him keeling over from cirrhosis before the GE.

    Lol!
    What's to stop Farage and Tice winding up Reform Ltd and splitting the cash?
    The world was a much safer place when Musk was focused on sending himself to Mars.
    I haven't been up to date on the incorporation of Reform.

    But I see that it is still a normal private company majority owned by Farage.

    https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11694875/officers
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    edited December 2

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    *Apparently* there were US air strikes against Iranian-backed militia in eastern Syria last night.

    Not seeing this reported anywhere sane, but it was on Twix.

    Yes, I saw that, but hesitated to post it without confirmation.
    The source was a pretty regular Syrian conflict reporter, FWIW.
    If true, that means Russia and the USA are on the same side?!?
    No. Both Russia and Iran back Assad (though I would not be surprised if Iran was sponsoring other groups as well.)
    Thankyou. It’s so incredibly complex

    I’ve seen some hideous evidence that these rebels - or some of them - are easily as bad as isis. Islamist maniacs who will impose brutal sharia law a la Taliban

    Which leaves me in the impossibly horrible position of maybe hoping Assad prevails
    Initial reports on the ground from Aleppo suggest not.
    But then again, similar claims of reasonableness were actually made for ISIS in the very early days.
    There are, I am afraid, grotesque videos. I don’t think they are fake

    This is probably ISIS 2.0 and I reckon anyone hoping for the rebels to be good guys are like those who hoped the new Taliban would be more reasonable. That’s the Taliban who have just made it illegal for women to speak
    Bad guys of different types killing each other is no bad thing.
    It is if you’ve been to Syria and met Syrians and had a wonderful time back in 1998 and held out a lot of hope that this country - quite secular, pluralistic, a safe place for minorities like Christians, despite the horrors of the regime - might actually evolve into an exemplar. Maybe even one day a democracy

    What has happened since is unutterably bad. There is no upside. At all
    More backwash of the Iraq invasion.
    Possibly the greatest unforced error by western powers EVER

    Britain’s decision to enter WW1 was worse if you’re a Briton
    Gulf War 1 was right and proportionate. Gulf War 2 was not only immoral and illegal, it was tactically and strategically disastrous.

    Blair was a very smart PM and extremely shrewd about the main chance but his backing of W was a huge mistake, even if the Tories were all for it.
    Not necessarily, Iraq is still free of Saddam and his family and has an elected government. Afghanistan by contrast is back in Taliban hands and Bin Laden was killed in Pakistan anyway.

    Given the growth of militants in Syria since though Assad is the better of 2 evils there
    Why? Are you aware of what Assad's been doing over there?
    No matter what he has done, he is still better than the Islamist former Al Qaeda linked rebels opposing him
    Not all the rebels are 'Al Qaeda linked'.

    And Assad himself has cooperated with ISIL when it suited him.

    https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/4698

    Don't swallow Russian propaganda.
    It was Assad's army supported by the Russians who defeated ISIL in Syria.

    (Snip)
    Bullshit, as I showed with my links yesterday. Russia and Assad were more concerned with destroying the other rebels, and as my link above shows, even paid ISIL.
    You showed sod all, the Kurds only held ISIL at bay from the very north of Syria, it was Assad's army and Russian airstrikes that defeated ISIL in the rest of Syria.

    Clearly they didn't defeat the other largely AQ linked rebels enough though, for even as ISIL have largely been defeated in Syria the Al Qaeda linked rebels haven't
    " Moscow officially portrayed its intervention as an anti-IS campaign and publicly declared support for the "patriotic Syrian opposition", the vast majority of its bombings were focused on destroying bases of the Syrian opposition militias of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) and Southern Front."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_against_the_Islamic_State

    The battle that rid Syria of IS was an American/SDF one:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Baghuz_Fawqani

    And as I've pointed out in the past, IS still exist in Syria, though they do not really control any territory.
    Baghuz Fawqani was right on the Iraq and Syria border, it was Assad's troops forcing ISIL out of the likes of Palmyra backed by the Russians that largely defeated ISIL in Syria

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/3/3/palmyra-russia-backed-syrian-army-retakes-ancient-city#:~:text=The Syrian army said it,driven out eight months before.
    You keep on repeating the same shit, and it's wrong, as my links show. But at least you've changed your view to 'largely', which is at least an improved position from your "It was Assad's army supported by the Russians who defeated ISIL in Syria." rubbish.

    You now seem to be saying: "Yeah, but that place in Syria wasn't really Syria..." Which is an absurd position to take. You also ignore my point about the Russians and Assad concentrating most of their fire on non-ISIL groups.

    The situation in Syria was, and is, an almighty mess. But trying to make the Russians out to be the good guys over there is a rather odd position to take.
    No it remains right. Had Assad fallen ISIL and AQ linked rebels would have taken over most of the government not the FSA. The FSA may have defeated ISIL in patches on the edge of Syria but it was Assad and his troops supported by the Russians who removed ISIL from areas like Palmyra.

    Indeed it is now AQ linked rebels leading the opposition to Assad, not the FSA
    "areas like Palmyra" != Syria.

    And you also ignore the atrocities Assad and the Russians committed against non-ISIS, not-AQ people. And not all the rebels are Muslim extremists, by a long shot.

    You are swallowing Russian propaganda hook, line and sinker. You may want to stare deep into your soul to ask why that is.
    "Deep into your soul"? Isn't that a bit hyperbolic?

    I don't think this is an example of HYUFD's latent authoritarianism leading him to side with a dictator. It's a simple matter of justifying a simplistic take based on opposing Islamic terrorists.

    That's something that only requires a superficial look, not a deep one.
This discussion has been closed.