Remember, new boundaries mean there were 14 additional seats. So all things being equal you'd have expected a party on 37 seats to have gained 3. This makes the likely final tally for Fine Gael of 38 a bit of a disappointment for them.
Fianna Fail will likely end up on 48, +10 seats, which they will be delighted by, even if they lost some senior TDs, such as ministers Donnelly (Health) and Rabbitte (Disability).
The big winner is Micheal Martin certainly and FF, which is slightly more socially conservative than FG but a bit less economically liberal and that will make the new government a bit more statist and authoritarian
I would have said that FG are bit more statist and authoritarian than FF, no? FF are members of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe Party, so the LibDem/Macron/etc. group. Meanwhile FG are in the European People's Party.
So has anyone who voted Labour actually regretted it yet apart from @Taz?
Yes, I should have not voted as was my initial thought.
However I am happy to be won over. Give it 2 years, See how the land lies
One thing I strongly believe is that the Tories did not deserve to win irrespective of how Labour have started.
I voted Lib Dem rather than Labour, as I had initially planned. Labour decided to parachute in someone from London, with no idea of the area. Quite why there are no plausible labour candidates who live locally I cannot say. I’m glad I didn’t vote Labour. However it’s really early days. Labour will win or lose based on the economy and the NHS. Let’s see where we are in 4 years time.
If inflation is steady at 2%,growth is averaging 2%,AE wait times similar to 2010,backlog below 3m,inward migration below 250k and boat arrivals below 10k and clear signs railways, sewage, energy security improving Starmer will win a second term with an overall majority of around 80. All of that is doable... Process driven day by day
So has anyone who voted Labour actually regretted it yet apart from @Taz?
Yes, I should have not voted as was my initial thought.
However I am happy to be won over. Give it 2 years, See how the land lies
One thing I strongly believe is that the Tories did not deserve to win irrespective of how Labour have started.
In all honesty I did not expect a Starmer led government to sideline a Blair style government and go left with policies that seriously undermine business in favour of unions and public sector, nor declare war on pensioners, farmers, small businesses and even increase students fees
As I have commented previously the '14 year mantra' worked but the real problems we have today came from covid and the war in Ukraine which has seen most governments fall that were in office during that period
There is no doubt the conservatives were out of time, and whilst I did not expect great things from Starmer his performance together with Reeves since winning the election has been abject and is reflecting in public opinion and business surveys, not least with today's announcement in the fall in consumer spending in November
Furthermore, the IFS publicly rebuked both main parties before the election that they were not acknowledging the state of the economy, and whilst there was a deficit left to Labour nearly half of the 22 billion they repeat daily was a result from the above inflation pay rises to the doctors and train drivers
Starmer, like Sunak, is not a politician and no matter how many relaunches he comes up with, the electorate will not change their mind on him unless and until the changes he promises become apparent and as he says he wants 10 years his problem is the electorate want to see results far quicker
I would just say I do respect the Labour supporters on here who do acknowledge this has been an unexpected poor start and are not in denial, but hope that in time Starmer will be seen more favourable
However, in a few weeks everything is thrown up in the air with the arrival of Trump with unforceable consequences, not just for the UK, but all around the world
When I woke this morning to the news Biden had pardoned his son I just felt a great sense of despair for the US and integrity in politics which has all but vanished, and we will all lose from it
How can anyone justify that? What if Biden committed a murder or a rape or child abuse or god knows. I can’t get my head around it
I am NOT saying Hunter Biden did any of these things, I am saying that if he did then - as per my reading of these words - he is now immune from prosecution
That actually goes far beyond the concept of “pardon”
The Supreme Court ruled that President Trump has immunity so if he commits murder, rape or child abuse... you see where I'm going with this? Hunter Biden had a laptop and tax bill, and now a pardon. So what?
Biden swore he would not do this. He swore that many times. He made a big thing out of it. His White House spokespeople repeated it. “No. Never. Not gonna happen. We are better than Trump”
It was literally one of his campaigning principles - “I’m the kind of guy that respects the law, unlike Trump, I won’t pardon my son”
How can you guys not see the FUCKING ENORMOUS PROBLEM HERE
Trump sells himself as a chancer and a wise guy and a devious fuck who will nonetheless get things done. You can’t then sell yourself as the morally superior alternative then be easily as bad. Because it makes you WORSE
It's bad. It tarnishes any legacy (what legacy). There have been worse pardons on both sides.
The idea that this makes Biden look worse than Trump is simply ludicrous.
It will have absolutely no impact on the 2028 election.
With posts like that, our Leon simply reminds us why he’s spent his life observing, rather than doing.
Well right now what I’m doing is cruising along the Caribbean coast seeking out a famously sacred indigenous mountain-shrine, and you’re in ventnor
I know the two of us have had this discussion before and that you don't get it but @IanB2 is right. You are observing not doing. There is a huge difference. Interestingly PB is made up of quite a lot of doers. They don't just spout their opinions, but many do relevant things about those opinions (whether one agrees with or not). There is real substance there behind them. I might not agree with some posters here but I appreciate what they do. You don't do that, although in fairness you probably don't have time with your travel.
Anything but the economy which theyre totally screwing up
Manufacturing PMIs worst for 9 months
He will be cropping up on Loose Women next to talk about it.
What a shit show they are turning out to be.
Political.parties are all much of the same type....Useless. Labour seem worse than ever, ineffective and driven by socialist dogma.
You can't polish a turd but Starmer is going to have a go at it. They never learn.
I genuinely fell for the way they presented themselves as a ‘government in waiting bringing competence and stability
I was, like many voters, rather mugged off.
This is continuity Sunak. No more no less.
So far so shit.
It's much worse than continuity Sunak. Sunak wasn't exactly a genius, but left the country with the fastest growth in the G7, which Starmer has promptly wrecked. And Starmer hasn't had to deal with multiple crises including the aftermath of the Liz Truss budget and the pandemic, the energy price shock and the acute phase of the war in Ukraine. God knows what a terrible state this country would be in if he did.
And that's not to mention the WFA, 2TK or Free Gear controversies - all in just six months.
We didn't really have the fastest growth. Unless you mean we had a single quarter (Q1) where growth zipped along at massive increase of 0.7% - bouncing back from a technical recession.
On an annualised basis it was worse than France and miles worse than USA
Since 2019, it has been worse than every G7 country bar Germany.
The very notion that there is any evidence that growth has been "promptly wrecked" by a change of administration within 5 months is laughable...
We were rather hoping that they might improve things.
Perhaps that was also laughable.
I'm willing to give them half a term: two years. That seems fair, given the enormity of the task and the fact they're newly in power.
If there's a black swan event, such as Covid mk 2, then a full term.
That's basically my position. So far so uninspiring but I wasn't expecting much. Alarm and despond (notwithstanding the private bellwethers and tingling Spidey senses of certain posters) are far too early.
From 2010: "Syria’s security agencies, the feared mukhabarat, continue to detain people without arrest warrants, frequently refuse to disclose their whereabouts for weeks and sometimes months, and regularly engage in torture. Special courts set up under Syria’s emergency laws, such as the Supreme State Security Court (SSSC), sentence people following unfair trials. Syria is still a de facto single-party state with only the Ba`ath Party holding effective power."
Was Syria under Assad &c from 1990-2010 a free, safe, prosperous liberal democracy like Australia or Canada? No of course not. It was a sometimes brutal autocracy
Was it palpably more tolerant and pluralistic - a better place for minorities and women - than many other countries in MENA? - yes absoiutely
Read those reports. Journalists arrested, tortured and murdered. You are, apparently, a journalist.
Except you'd be one of the ones who sucked up to the evil regime.
The utter blistering hypocrisy of Biden and the Democrats
They spend two years concocting often dubious law cases against Trump - basically trying anything to get him in jail. But that’s ok because the Democrats aren’t criminals and they don’t break the law like Trump so they are allowed to bend the law a bit ahem
And now Biden flat out pardons his convicted criminal son. There will be an awful lot of Americans feeling very vindicated in their vote for Trump
Why the Democratss were right to drop Biden: #28 in a series...
Hunter's legal travails may be substantial, like a felony conviction for a felon packing a sidearm, but they are mere trifles compared to Tango man's charge sheet.
You have no idea whether that's true.
Thirty plus felony convictions, an adjudicated case of rape and video evidence that he figure headed the riots suggest I do.
Do you actually believe he raped E Jean Carroll?
Due process and a jury of his peers believed he did, so that is good enough for me. Provide me with the evidence to the contrary.
Comments
As I have commented previously the '14 year mantra' worked but the real problems we have today came from covid and the war in Ukraine which has seen most governments fall that were in office during that period
There is no doubt the conservatives were out of time, and whilst I did not expect great things from Starmer his performance together with Reeves since winning the election has been abject and is reflecting in public opinion and business surveys, not least with today's announcement in the fall in consumer spending in November
Furthermore, the IFS publicly rebuked both main parties before the election that they were not acknowledging the state of the economy, and whilst there was a deficit left to Labour nearly half of the 22 billion they repeat daily was a result from the above inflation pay rises to the doctors and train drivers
Starmer, like Sunak, is not a politician and no matter how many relaunches he comes up with, the electorate will not change their mind on him unless and until the changes he promises become apparent and as he says he wants 10 years his problem is the electorate want to see results far quicker
I would just say I do respect the Labour supporters on here who do acknowledge this has been an unexpected poor start and are not in denial, but hope that in time Starmer will be seen more favourable
However, in a few weeks everything is thrown up in the air with the arrival of Trump with unforceable consequences, not just for the UK, but all around the world
When I woke this morning to the news Biden had pardoned his son I just felt a great sense of despair for the US and integrity in politics which has all but vanished, and we will all lose from it
NEW THREAD
Except you'd be one of the ones who sucked up to the evil regime.
(e.g. https://cpj.org/2010/06/syria-detains-journalist-beyond-sentence/ )