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Following in Ted Heath’s footsteps – politicalbetting.com

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  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,932
    Damn it yet again I post an hour after a thread has finished on the old thread. @Selebian a reply to you re WFP and Farming IHT re LDs.

    My only excuse is I am having my first break from a day of medlaring. I thought I had missed my opportunity this year, but I got a call from a local stately home to let me enter their private gardens and pick the last remaining medlars. They also let me take some cuttings to try and grow my own tree on the condition that if I am successful I give them a successful cutting if I get more than one to take.

    Will be bottling the medlar jelly in the next hour or so. Pictures may follow.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    algarkirk said:

    The table they have Baxtered (or whatever) would be completely hilarious. Either Labour and Tory form an alliance or it's more or less impossible to form a government without both Reform and the LDs.
    They’re showing Wes Streeting and Shabana Mahmood losing to independents, so presumably this assumes a growing contingent of Islam-focused MPs.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012

    algarkirk said:

    Czech billionaire closes in on deal to buy Royal Mail

    SKS's Czech mate or 5D chess game!

    Is anyone offering odds on maintaining the daily delivery to all addresses in the medium term?

    I would trust no agreement that isn't written into an Act of Parliament and also has provision for future contingencies like loading it with debt and doing a Thames Water.
    Personally I’m appalled at yet another State-owned institution being privatised.
    And, worse, being sold to someone who doesn’t appear to be a British citizen.
    At the risk of moving from being a bore on the subject to a positive irritant this is what happens when your country runs an £80bn+ trade deficit for more than 20 consecutive years. Everything is up for grabs and its a buyers market.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Interesting situation in the Romanian Presidential election where a rank outsider topped the first ballot without even any polling expectation, and the lead candidate missed making the runoff by a few thousand votes, and the Constitutional Court is asking for a recount.

    Romania’s Constitutional Court on Thursday asked the country’s top election authority to recount and check again all ballots from Sunday’s presidential election first round.

    The Central Electoral Bureau will meet this afternoon to decide on the next steps.

    Turmoil has gripped Romania, as the court also decided to postpone until Friday a seismic decision on whether to certify or cancel the first round of the country’s presidential election.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/romania-top-court-requests-presidential-election-recount-calin-georgescu-elena-lasconi/

    Interesting it says that two of the candidates requesting a nullification of the first round got 1% or less each, not the serving PM who missed out.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,379

    algarkirk said:

    Czech billionaire closes in on deal to buy Royal Mail

    SKS's Czech mate or 5D chess game!

    Is anyone offering odds on maintaining the daily delivery to all addresses in the medium term?

    I would trust no agreement that isn't written into an Act of Parliament and also has provision for future contingencies like loading it with debt and doing a Thames Water.
    Personally I’m appalled at yet another State-owned institution being privatised.
    And, worse, being sold to someone who doesn’t appear to be a British citizen.
    Starmer should have been a lover, but it turned out he's our pimp. Palantir, Blackrock, Kretinsky. There is nobody he won't sell us to for a fiver so his stupid son Miliband can by more Green rubbish. His economic strategy in full: whore us out. Silly man.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942

    Sounds better than the system that has been left in Wales where the unitary councils are too small for purpose. 22 councils for 3 million people is absurd.

    I wonder what the English Clackmannanshire will be.
  • algarkirk said:

    The table they have Baxtered (or whatever) would be completely hilarious. Either Labour and Tory form an alliance or it's more or less impossible to form a government without both Reform and the LDs.
    They’re showing Wes Streeting and Shabana Mahmood losing to independents, so presumably this assumes a growing contingent of Islam-focused MPs.
    Wes Streeting only won by 500 votes in July.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?
    No, just a lost soul from the barbarian lands beyond the walls. Rich fruit pudding, boiled in a cloth (cf. Eng. 'clout') for 3 hours to get the correct glutinous coating. Though if one is in a hurry and can bear to miss the chewy coat, nuking it in a bowl in a microwave is also possible.

    https://bakingwithgranny.co.uk/recipe/clootie-dumpling/

    Edit: used to be our family tradition on Christmas day, with sherry trifle as an alternative/extra.

    Edit: haven't tried the recipe linked - just that it gives a good idea of the principle. Time of year to be planning one, too.
    It is also quite delicious fried (showing I am a true Scot) as part of a breakfast. The bard may have described Haggis as the great chieftain o' the pudding race but I would happily make the case for a clootie dumpling.
    And fried for dinner dessert the next day, and the next day ...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    algarkirk said:

    The table they have Baxtered (or whatever) would be completely hilarious. Either Labour and Tory form an alliance or it's more or less impossible to form a government without both Reform and the LDs.
    They’re showing Wes Streeting and Shabana Mahmood losing to independents, so presumably this assumes a growing contingent of Islam-focused MPs.
    Both have pretty small majorities, Streeting in particular only just clung on, it will be interesting if the Gaza Bros (and Gals) becomes an enduring aspect of our elections moving forward.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,932
    On topic: I agree with unitary authorities. The current system is a shambles with nobody knowing what council does what. Eg Borough collects rubbish, but County looks after tips.

    The Unitaries should not be countywide in size. That is far too big. A unitary should be 2 - 4 Boroughs in size.

    I agree with @HYUFD that if so, town and parish councils should have more power.

    @HYUFD re last thread I would have liked to continue the discussion with you on the make up of the LD vote in place like Surrey, but it is too late now. I'm sure it will crop up again and I look forward to the discussion then.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    MattW said:

    Remarkably, on topic, totals published as the "Have a picture of the King" scheme has come to a close.

    Welsh public authorities are very ungrateful to their long-term Prince. :smile:

    Broken down by individual nations within the UK, the total take-up for all from Government Departments, Arm’s-length bodies (ALB), and Local Authorities in England was 82.7%; in Scotland it was 68.3%; for Wales it was 15.6%; and for Northern Ireland it was 11.5%.
    ...
    Broken down by individual nations within the UK, the total take-up for all eligible public authorities and institutions in England was 33.5%; in Scotland it was 13.7%; for Wales it was 13.8%; and for Northern Ireland it was 10.5%.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/conclusion-of-his-majesty-the-kings-free-portrait-scheme

    Have you not considered that they will have plenty of photos of him already, and are showing a commendable care for the public exchequer?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694
    Eabhal said:

    Sounds better than the system that has been left in Wales where the unitary councils are too small for purpose. 22 councils for 3 million people is absurd.

    I wonder what the English Clackmannanshire will be.
    Is this a Rutland comeback?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857

    algarkirk said:

    The table they have Baxtered (or whatever) would be completely hilarious. Either Labour and Tory form an alliance or it's more or less impossible to form a government without both Reform and the LDs.
    I wonder if anything may possibly change before 2028?
    I think it might. of course if one knew what there would be a lot of money to made off the bookies. I suspect whatever will be in 2028 may involve some quite long odds right now. Sadly....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    Eabhal said:

    Sounds better than the system that has been left in Wales where the unitary councils are too small for purpose. 22 councils for 3 million people is absurd.

    I wonder what the English Clackmannanshire will be.
    Rutland?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Eabhal said:

    Sounds better than the system that has been left in Wales where the unitary councils are too small for purpose. 22 councils for 3 million people is absurd.

    I wonder what the English Clackmannanshire will be.
    Is this a Rutland comeback?
    It's already back.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    edited November 28
    kjh said:

    On topic: I agree with unitary authorities. The current system is a shambles with nobody knowing what council does what. Eg Borough collects rubbish, but County looks after tips.

    The Unitaries should not be countywide in size. That is far too big. A unitary should be 2 - 4 Boroughs in size.

    I agree with @HYUFD that if so, town and parish councils should have more power.

    @HYUFD re last thread I would have liked to continue the discussion with you on the make up of the LD vote in place like Surrey, but it is too late now. I'm sure it will crop up again and I look forward to the discussion then.

    Start with the old counties and work from there. At least we know more or less where they are.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    stodge said:

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Offering some thought to the above - you "could" have a single national refuse collection contract overseen by OFCRAP or something similar. Every landfill or civic amenity site, every refuse disposal vehicle and all the staff would be transferred to the new provider who would function as the National Refuse Collection Authority.

    The NCRA would provide the same level of service across the whole country and every property would have no more than two bins - one for the general refuse and one for everythign which can be recycled. It would provide extra bins for commercial refuse. Via a sensor in the bin, each household could decide if it wanted a weekly, fortnightly or monthly rubbish collection and would be charged accordingly.

    Feasible? Perhaps - not sure of the costs or viability but we'd have a more homogenous service which should be the same in Guildford, Gosport or Gateshead.
    Managed, no doubt, by Macquarie ?
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,920
    HYUFD said:

    May lead to a reduction in councillors but also could lead to less local links from councils. Voters who currently have a district council based in their town could instead end up with a Unitary authority based in a city or large town at the other end of the county if more counties see County and District councils merged into Unitaries.

    Would therefore need to see stronger Parish and Town Councils too if the proposals are to work properly

    Some parish councils have 200 inhabitants and a part-time clark. How would you make these stronger?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    kjh said:

    On topic: I agree with unitary authorities. The current system is a shambles with nobody knowing what council does what. Eg Borough collects rubbish, but County looks after tips.

    The Unitaries should not be countywide in size. That is far too big. A unitary should be 2 - 4 Boroughs in size.

    I agree with HYUFD that if so, town and parish councils should have more power.

    HYUFD re last thread I would have liked to continue the discussion with you on the make up of the LD vote in place like Surrey, but it is too late now. I'm sure it will crop up again and I look forward to the discussion then.

    Problem is parish councils with 200 electors (or fewer) find it hard to do things even with theoretical power, so putting an expectation on them could be too much for many. But government guidance has long resisted grouping them up artificially or combining them as, in fairness, in rural areas they can cover very large and distinct areas.

    And that's not getting into places which only have Parish Meetings.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sounds better than the system that has been left in Wales where the unitary councils are too small for purpose. 22 councils for 3 million people is absurd.

    I wonder what the English Clackmannanshire will be.
    Rutland?
    One June several years ago, I cycle commuted into Edinburgh from Alloa as part of my marathon training. Roughly equivalent to Nottingham from Rutland Water.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Who would award and oversee the contracts?
    Benjamin Netanyahu?
    That's a bold idea. He obviously knows a thing or two about procurement.
    Not to mention radical urban redevelopment.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    ClippP said:

    HYUFD said:

    May lead to a reduction in councillors but also could lead to less local links from councils. Voters who currently have a district council based in their town could instead end up with a Unitary authority based in a city or large town at the other end of the county if more counties see County and District councils merged into Unitaries.

    Would therefore need to see stronger Parish and Town Councils too if the proposals are to work properly

    Some parish councils have 200 inhabitants and a part-time clark. How would you make these stronger?
    Some don't even have part time clerks (except in sense a cllr serves as the clerk in those situations). And raise so little in precept (which many keep as low as humanly possible) to pay for one even part time.

    I do agree with first tier authorities being able to do more if they can, but I think people overestimate how much can be achieved simply, it's not just a case of 'let's make them stronger'.

    How many are not even eligible to have general power of competence because most (or all) of their members were co-opted or appointed?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?
    No, just a lost soul from the barbarian lands beyond the walls. Rich fruit pudding, boiled in a cloth (cf. Eng. 'clout') for 3 hours to get the correct glutinous coating. Though if one is in a hurry and can bear to miss the chewy coat, nuking it in a bowl in a microwave is also possible.

    https://bakingwithgranny.co.uk/recipe/clootie-dumpling/

    Edit: used to be our family tradition on Christmas day, with sherry trifle as an alternative/extra.

    Edit: haven't tried the recipe linked - just that it gives a good idea of the principle. Time of year to be planning one, too.
    It is also quite delicious fried (showing I am a true Scot) as part of a breakfast. The bard may have described Haggis as the great chieftain o' the pudding race but I would happily make the case for a clootie dumpling.
    Similarly, I enjoy a fried slice of Christmas pudding with fried potatoes for a boxing day breakfast.
  • AnthonyTAnthonyT Posts: 92
    Just what we need. More unloved conglomerates.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    On topic: I agree with unitary authorities. The current system is a shambles with nobody knowing what council does what. Eg Borough collects rubbish, but County looks after tips.

    The Unitaries should not be countywide in size. That is far too big. A unitary should be 2 - 4 Boroughs in size.

    I agree with HYUFD that if so, town and parish councils should have more power.

    HYUFD re last thread I would have liked to continue the discussion with you on the make up of the LD vote in place like Surrey, but it is too late now. I'm sure it will crop up again and I look forward to the discussion then.

    Problem is parish councils with 200 electors (or fewer) find it hard to do things even with theoretical power, so putting an expectation on them could be too much for many. But government guidance has long resisted grouping them up artificially or combining them as, in fairness, in rural areas they can cover very large and distinct areas.

    And that's not getting into places which only have Parish Meetings.
    FFS. You guys are addicted to two-tiers. Parish councils already have more powers than community councils in Scotland.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    AnthonyT said:

    Just what we need. More unloved conglomerates.

    People don't love the current system either. They object when new ones are introduced (among those who even notice), then get used to it.

    Central government hardly seems to notice, I've seen examples communications addressed to councils that no longer exist, as they don't update the name on their own systems.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    edited November 28
    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sounds better than the system that has been left in Wales where the unitary councils are too small for purpose. 22 councils for 3 million people is absurd.

    I wonder what the English Clackmannanshire will be.
    Rutland?
    One June several years ago, I cycle commuted into Edinburgh from Alloa as part of my marathon training. Roughly equivalent to Nottingham from Rutland Water.
    I just took the train when I last went to Alloa (2019).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited November 28
    Eabhal said:

    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    On topic: I agree with unitary authorities. The current system is a shambles with nobody knowing what council does what. Eg Borough collects rubbish, but County looks after tips.

    The Unitaries should not be countywide in size. That is far too big. A unitary should be 2 - 4 Boroughs in size.

    I agree with HYUFD that if so, town and parish councils should have more power.

    HYUFD re last thread I would have liked to continue the discussion with you on the make up of the LD vote in place like Surrey, but it is too late now. I'm sure it will crop up again and I look forward to the discussion then.

    Problem is parish councils with 200 electors (or fewer) find it hard to do things even with theoretical power, so putting an expectation on them could be too much for many. But government guidance has long resisted grouping them up artificially or combining them as, in fairness, in rural areas they can cover very large and distinct areas.

    And that's not getting into places which only have Parish Meetings.
    FFS. You guys are addicted to two-tiers. Parish councils already have more powers than community councils in Scotland.
    Really? Do they even do anything? Since many parish councils do very little* even though they theoretically could.

    *Yes, some do plenty.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sounds better than the system that has been left in Wales where the unitary councils are too small for purpose. 22 councils for 3 million people is absurd.

    I wonder what the English Clackmannanshire will be.
    Rutland?
    One June several years ago, I cycle commuted into Edinburgh from Alloa as part of my marathon training. Roughly equivalent to Nottingham from Rutland Water.
    I just took the train when I last went to Alloa (2018).
    It was a silky smooth cycle path on a dismantled railway to Dunfermline that I used.

    Sorry.
  • Eabhal said:

    Sounds better than the system that has been left in Wales where the unitary councils are too small for purpose. 22 councils for 3 million people is absurd.

    I wonder what the English Clackmannanshire will be.
    Is this a Rutland comeback?
    Rutland already came back in 1997!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutland_County_Council
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    kle4 said:

    Eabhal said:

    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    On topic: I agree with unitary authorities. The current system is a shambles with nobody knowing what council does what. Eg Borough collects rubbish, but County looks after tips.

    The Unitaries should not be countywide in size. That is far too big. A unitary should be 2 - 4 Boroughs in size.

    I agree with HYUFD that if so, town and parish councils should have more power.

    HYUFD re last thread I would have liked to continue the discussion with you on the make up of the LD vote in place like Surrey, but it is too late now. I'm sure it will crop up again and I look forward to the discussion then.

    Problem is parish councils with 200 electors (or fewer) find it hard to do things even with theoretical power, so putting an expectation on them could be too much for many. But government guidance has long resisted grouping them up artificially or combining them as, in fairness, in rural areas they can cover very large and distinct areas.

    And that's not getting into places which only have Parish Meetings.
    FFS. You guys are addicted to two-tiers. Parish councils already have more powers than community councils in Scotland.
    Really? Do they even do anything? Since many parish councils do very little* even though they theoretically could.

    *Yes, some do plenty.
    That's my understanding. I've dipped my toe in my community council over the last couple of years, mainly protesting to the police about bad driving, drugs and XL Bullies, and lots of hand-wringing over PBSA applications.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012
    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?
    No, just a lost soul from the barbarian lands beyond the walls. Rich fruit pudding, boiled in a cloth (cf. Eng. 'clout') for 3 hours to get the correct glutinous coating. Though if one is in a hurry and can bear to miss the chewy coat, nuking it in a bowl in a microwave is also possible.

    https://bakingwithgranny.co.uk/recipe/clootie-dumpling/

    Edit: used to be our family tradition on Christmas day, with sherry trifle as an alternative/extra.

    Edit: haven't tried the recipe linked - just that it gives a good idea of the principle. Time of year to be planning one, too.
    It is also quite delicious fried (showing I am a true Scot) as part of a breakfast. The bard may have described Haggis as the great chieftain o' the pudding race but I would happily make the case for a clootie dumpling.
    Similarly, I enjoy a fried slice of Christmas pudding with fried potatoes for a boxing day breakfast.
    We have a fairly strict rule in our house that there is no cooking on Boxing day. Heating up left overs is permissible but otherwise just pick and nibble.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?

    Boil in a bag stodge ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    Czech billionaire closes in on deal to buy Royal Mail

    SKS's Czech mate or 5D chess game!

    Is anyone offering odds on maintaining the daily delivery to all addresses in the medium term?

    I would trust no agreement that isn't written into an Act of Parliament and also has provision for future contingencies like loading it with debt and doing a Thames Water.
    Personally I’m appalled at yet another State-owned institution being privatised.
    And, worse, being sold to someone who doesn’t appear to be a British citizen.
    At the risk of moving from being a bore on the subject to a positive irritant this is what happens when your country runs an £80bn+ trade deficit for more than 20 consecutive years. Everything is up for grabs and its a buyers market.
    It does tend to compound the problem, though.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    stodge said:

    eek said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Local Government reorganisation - another idea whose time has apparently come. It's worth noting at this stage there's no sense of compulsion and if you look at the political composition of Counties and District/Borough Councils the 2021 elections (which left 17 of the 21 County Councils in majority Conservative control) were followed by District and Borough cycles in 2022, 2023 and 2024 which saw the Conservatives ousted from dozens of second tier Councils.

    In Surrey, for example, the Conservatives still control the County but have been driven out of most District and Borough Councils within the county and the relationship between County and District/Borough is more like that of the USA and USSR in late October 1962.

    The County thinks it should run everything - the Districts and Boroughs want two or three smaller Unitaries.

    If no one wants to re-organise will they be forced to? Time will tell.

    As for the mechanics, if you create a single County authority, it would have to take on a range of functions with which the County currently isn't involved such as refuse collection, council tax administration and crematoria. Replacing 11 Council Tax collection systems with just one sounds like a big saving but I'm sceptical.

    Going to 2-3 Unitaries from a County plus 11 Districts and Boroughs will mean replicating or triplicating the social care, property, legal, financial, procurement and HR systems as well as re-designing all the contracts.

    There may be savings to be had in the medium or longer term but a lost of initial transitional costs.

    It’s perfectly possible that a lot of those internal systems may have already been merged. Darlington and Stockton’s finance /HR has been merged for 20+ years. In Buckinghamshire they merged planning well before the councils themselves merged
    To a point and some back office functions have been merged across some authorities and some senior posts are shared between authorities covering key posts such as the Caldicott Guardian, Section 151 Monitoring Officer etc.

    However, each authority remains sovereign and a separate legal entity so the potential savings haven't been fully realised as there is still multiple tiers of oversight.
    Um some councils have shared senior management teams - here is one example

    https://www.localgov.co.uk/Councils-look-at-shared-leadership-team/54061

    I bet the management wish that the councils merge so they only have 1 set of councillors and workers to deal with.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Offering some thought to the above - you "could" have a single national refuse collection contract overseen by OFCRAP or something similar. Every landfill or civic amenity site, every refuse disposal vehicle and all the staff would be transferred to the new provider who would function as the National Refuse Collection Authority.

    The NCRA would provide the same level of service across the whole country and every property would have no more than two bins - one for the general refuse and one for everythign which can be recycled. It would provide extra bins for commercial refuse. Via a sensor in the bin, each household could decide if it wanted a weekly, fortnightly or monthly rubbish collection and would be charged accordingly.

    Feasible? Perhaps - not sure of the costs or viability but we'd have a more homogenous service which should be the same in Guildford, Gosport or Gateshead.
    Are large providers more efficient than small?

    I know the 'economies of scale' argument, but aren't they stereotypically inflexible, with reduced local influence and no need to adapt?

    Suppose I'm naturally resistant to big consolidations. Can't look past monopolies being a poor option even in the public sector. Would favour local providers alla Preston. At least the money stays local.
    Of course - I was responding to @BartholomewRoberts and his half-witted comment about abolishing all local Government.
    I won’t let them do it Stodge. I won’t let them boil you in a bag. It would be so unfair!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012
    To be honest I have never even heard of the team that are beating Man Utd at OT tonight.

    Now we will see what Amorim is made of.
  • algarkirk said:

    Czech billionaire closes in on deal to buy Royal Mail

    SKS's Czech mate or 5D chess game!

    Is anyone offering odds on maintaining the daily delivery to all addresses in the medium term?

    I would trust no agreement that isn't written into an Act of Parliament and also has provision for future contingencies like loading it with debt and doing a Thames Water.
    Personally I’m appalled at yet another State-owned institution being privatised.
    And, worse, being sold to someone who doesn’t appear to be a British citizen.
    This is what happens when Britain is obsessed with buying property as an "investment" instead of shares in productive companies.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,987
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?

    Boil in a bag stodge ?
    The best stodge.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Offering some thought to the above - you "could" have a single national refuse collection contract overseen by OFCRAP or something similar. Every landfill or civic amenity site, every refuse disposal vehicle and all the staff would be transferred to the new provider who would function as the National Refuse Collection Authority.

    The NCRA would provide the same level of service across the whole country and every property would have no more than two bins - one for the general refuse and one for everythign which can be recycled. It would provide extra bins for commercial refuse. Via a sensor in the bin, each household could decide if it wanted a weekly, fortnightly or monthly rubbish collection and would be charged accordingly.

    Feasible? Perhaps - not sure of the costs or viability but we'd have a more homogenous service which should be the same in Guildford, Gosport or Gateshead.
    Are large providers more efficient than small?

    I know the 'economies of scale' argument, but aren't they stereotypically inflexible, with reduced local influence and no need to adapt?

    Suppose I'm naturally resistant to big consolidations. Can't look past monopolies being a poor option even in the public sector. Would favour local providers alla Preston. At least the money stays local.
    Of course - I was responding to @BartholomewRoberts and his half-witted comment about abolishing all local Government.
    I won’t let them do it Stodge. I won’t let them boil you in a bag. It would be so unfair!
    You’re not a bunny boiler.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,986
    eek said:

    stodge said:

    eek said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Local Government reorganisation - another idea whose time has apparently come. It's worth noting at this stage there's no sense of compulsion and if you look at the political composition of Counties and District/Borough Councils the 2021 elections (which left 17 of the 21 County Councils in majority Conservative control) were followed by District and Borough cycles in 2022, 2023 and 2024 which saw the Conservatives ousted from dozens of second tier Councils.

    In Surrey, for example, the Conservatives still control the County but have been driven out of most District and Borough Councils within the county and the relationship between County and District/Borough is more like that of the USA and USSR in late October 1962.

    The County thinks it should run everything - the Districts and Boroughs want two or three smaller Unitaries.

    If no one wants to re-organise will they be forced to? Time will tell.

    As for the mechanics, if you create a single County authority, it would have to take on a range of functions with which the County currently isn't involved such as refuse collection, council tax administration and crematoria. Replacing 11 Council Tax collection systems with just one sounds like a big saving but I'm sceptical.

    Going to 2-3 Unitaries from a County plus 11 Districts and Boroughs will mean replicating or triplicating the social care, property, legal, financial, procurement and HR systems as well as re-designing all the contracts.

    There may be savings to be had in the medium or longer term but a lost of initial transitional costs.

    It’s perfectly possible that a lot of those internal systems may have already been merged. Darlington and Stockton’s finance /HR has been merged for 20+ years. In Buckinghamshire they merged planning well before the councils themselves merged
    To a point and some back office functions have been merged across some authorities and some senior posts are shared between authorities covering key posts such as the Caldicott Guardian, Section 151 Monitoring Officer etc.

    However, each authority remains sovereign and a separate legal entity so the potential savings haven't been fully realised as there is still multiple tiers of oversight.
    Um some councils have shared senior management teams - here is one example

    https://www.localgov.co.uk/Councils-look-at-shared-leadership-team/54061

    I bet the management wish that the councils merge so they only have 1 set of councillors and workers to deal with.
    Well, quite and it's been an interesting but only, in my view, partly effective way of reducing costs.

    @HYUFD earlier posited the not unreasonable points of identity and accountability. Again, taking Surrey, which has a population of about 1.2 million and is 45-50 miles across. To what extent can any one authority have that kind of local accountability? Strengthening Town and Parish Councils isn't a bad idea but all that would do is to replicate two-tier albeit in a different form.

    If you have one Council looking after 1.2 million and eleven looking after 110,000 each the answer is probably to split the difference and have three Unitaries with 400,000 in each - the previous Government recommended 350,000 as ideal size for Unitaries (about the size of Newham oddly enough). You could probably create West, Mid and East Surrey Councils which would achieve that but the cost of transitioning from the current structure to the new would be considerable.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,987
    ClippP said:

    HYUFD said:

    May lead to a reduction in councillors but also could lead to less local links from councils. Voters who currently have a district council based in their town could instead end up with a Unitary authority based in a city or large town at the other end of the county if more counties see County and District councils merged into Unitaries.

    Would therefore need to see stronger Parish and Town Councils too if the proposals are to work properly

    Some parish councils have 200 inhabitants and a part-time clark. How would you make these stronger?
    Tanks.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,986
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?

    Boil in a bag stodge ?
    No thanks, though I'd point out the British Empire was built on a diet of Boiled Stodge.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,987
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?
    No, just a lost soul from the barbarian lands beyond the walls. Rich fruit pudding, boiled in a cloth (cf. Eng. 'clout') for 3 hours to get the correct glutinous coating. Though if one is in a hurry and can bear to miss the chewy coat, nuking it in a bowl in a microwave is also possible.

    https://bakingwithgranny.co.uk/recipe/clootie-dumpling/

    Edit: used to be our family tradition on Christmas day, with sherry trifle as an alternative/extra.

    Edit: haven't tried the recipe linked - just that it gives a good idea of the principle. Time of year to be planning one, too.
    It is also quite delicious fried (showing I am a true Scot) as part of a breakfast. The bard may have described Haggis as the great chieftain o' the pudding race but I would happily make the case for a clootie dumpling.
    Couple of slices of butter-fried white pudding stirred through a bolognese. Adds a lovely creamy texture without any of that unhealthy cream.

    Shush.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Can we just note that the Tories allowed one MILLION migrants, net, in one year

    For that alone they deserve to be sent to Hell, for eternal perdition, and Boris fucking "the FT will be my friend" Johnson should go to the 10th circle of Torment
  • I'm sure that my new Czech chief will be tremendous, but I'd still prefer Royal Mail to be owned by the King
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    I'm sure that my new Czech chief will be tremendous, but I'd still prefer Royal Mail to be owned by the King

    Charlie is not rich enough to afford to own and run it (very rich though he is).
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,987
    kle4 said:

    Interesting situation in the Romanian Presidential election where a rank outsider topped the first ballot without even any polling expectation, and the lead candidate missed making the runoff by a few thousand votes, and the Constitutional Court is asking for a recount.

    Romania’s Constitutional Court on Thursday asked the country’s top election authority to recount and check again all ballots from Sunday’s presidential election first round.

    The Central Electoral Bureau will meet this afternoon to decide on the next steps.

    Turmoil has gripped Romania, as the court also decided to postpone until Friday a seismic decision on whether to certify or cancel the first round of the country’s presidential election.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/romania-top-court-requests-presidential-election-recount-calin-georgescu-elena-lasconi/

    Interesting it says that two of the candidates requesting a nullification of the first round got 1% or less each, not the serving PM who missed out.

    I see they're now blaming TikTok :

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2n83vgxxjo

    A recount of the votes cast in Sunday's first round of presidential elections in Romania has been ordered by the country's top court following allegations that social media platform TikTok gave "preferential treatment" to the surprise winner, Calin Georgescu.

    The Constitutional Court also rejected claims filed by two of the losing candidates who accused Georgescu of illegal campaign financing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited November 28
    DavidL said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Much ado about nothing isn't it? 10 years ago, facts are very unclear, sums involved trivial. Slightly underwhelming but not career ending unless Starmer is irritated by her anyway.
    On first glance I thought that, with her excuse being all a misunderstanding and duff advice from her legal representation. Then you think a) why were the plod even bothered to take this to court, and the most damning b) her company fired her over this.

    Sounds like she is telling big porkies over this. Its the cover up and lies that are always worse.

    "However, three separate sources claimed she made the false report to benefit personally, with two of the sources alleging she wanted a more modern work handset that was being rolled out to her colleagues at the time."
  • "This is a Local Government, for Local People. There's nothing for YOU here!"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F75d01l5AxM

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    Leon said:

    Can we just note that the Tories allowed one MILLION migrants, net, in one year

    For that alone they deserve to be sent to Hell, for eternal perdition, and Boris fucking "the FT will be my friend" Johnson should go to the 10th circle of Torment

    What should we do with the people that voted for it?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Can we just note that the Tories allowed one MILLION migrants, net, in one year

    For that alone they deserve to be sent to Hell, for eternal perdition, and Boris fucking "the FT will be my friend" Johnson should go to the 10th circle of Torment

    What should we do with the people that voted for it?
    Grrr. Dunno. EEJITS. Send them to the same place as the c*nts that voted for Sir Sheer Wanker
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?
    No, just a lost soul from the barbarian lands beyond the walls. Rich fruit pudding, boiled in a cloth (cf. Eng. 'clout') for 3 hours to get the correct glutinous coating. Though if one is in a hurry and can bear to miss the chewy coat, nuking it in a bowl in a microwave is also possible.

    https://bakingwithgranny.co.uk/recipe/clootie-dumpling/

    Edit: used to be our family tradition on Christmas day, with sherry trifle as an alternative/extra.

    Edit: haven't tried the recipe linked - just that it gives a good idea of the principle. Time of year to be planning one, too.
    It is also quite delicious fried (showing I am a true Scot) as part of a breakfast. The bard may have described Haggis as the great chieftain o' the pudding race but I would happily make the case for a clootie dumpling.
    Fried dumpling, haggis and black pudding with a square sausage and poached egg.
    I don’t think there’s any need to impose a hierarchy on perfection.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Can we just note that the Tories allowed one MILLION migrants, net, in one year

    For that alone they deserve to be sent to Hell, for eternal perdition, and Boris fucking "the FT will be my friend" Johnson should go to the 10th circle of Torment

    What should we do with the people that voted for it?
    What a stupid line of argument. You personally voted for the great con, if that's what it was, when you voted for Cameron's "tens of thousands" lie.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?
    No, just a lost soul from the barbarian lands beyond the walls. Rich fruit pudding, boiled in a cloth (cf. Eng. 'clout') for 3 hours to get the correct glutinous coating. Though if one is in a hurry and can bear to miss the chewy coat, nuking it in a bowl in a microwave is also possible.

    https://bakingwithgranny.co.uk/recipe/clootie-dumpling/

    Edit: used to be our family tradition on Christmas day, with sherry trifle as an alternative/extra.

    Edit: haven't tried the recipe linked - just that it gives a good idea of the principle. Time of year to be planning one, too.
    It is also quite delicious fried (showing I am a true Scot) as part of a breakfast. The bard may have described Haggis as the great chieftain o' the pudding race but I would happily make the case for a clootie dumpling.
    Fried dumpling, haggis and black pudding with a square sausage and poached egg.
    I don’t think there’s any need to impose a hierarchy on perfection.
    Gotta admit, sometimes they get things very right north of the border.
  • Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Can we just note that the Tories allowed one MILLION migrants, net, in one year

    For that alone they deserve to be sent to Hell, for eternal perdition, and Boris fucking "the FT will be my friend" Johnson should go to the 10th circle of Torment

    What should we do with the people that voted for it?
    Grrr. Dunno. EEJITS. Send them to the same place as the c*nts that voted for Sir Sheer Wanker
    Uruguay?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?
    No, just a lost soul from the barbarian lands beyond the walls. Rich fruit pudding, boiled in a cloth (cf. Eng. 'clout') for 3 hours to get the correct glutinous coating. Though if one is in a hurry and can bear to miss the chewy coat, nuking it in a bowl in a microwave is also possible.

    https://bakingwithgranny.co.uk/recipe/clootie-dumpling/

    Edit: used to be our family tradition on Christmas day, with sherry trifle as an alternative/extra.

    Edit: haven't tried the recipe linked - just that it gives a good idea of the principle. Time of year to be planning one, too.
    It is also quite delicious fried (showing I am a true Scot) as part of a breakfast. The bard may have described Haggis as the great chieftain o' the pudding race but I would happily make the case for a clootie dumpling.
    Fried dumpling, haggis and black pudding with a square sausage and poached egg.
    I don’t think there’s any need to impose a hierarchy on perfection.
    What's this poached egg nonsense? Are you one of those health fanatics?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited November 28

    I'm sure that my new Czech chief will be tremendous, but I'd still prefer Royal Mail to be owned by the King

    I am interested to know what the angle is in owning Royal Mail. Is it some real estate play? Because there is no big money in delivering when you have to do the last mile for peanuts and Amazon is increasingly becoming the logistics service in the way they have become cloud compute with AWS e.g. if you are a business they will now pick up and delivery pallets of products for you.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    DavidL said:

    What's this poached egg nonsense? Are you one of those health fanatics?

    "poach" it in lard...
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,767
    In Russia it's guns or butter despite what Putin says. This winter the scarce dairy product will be a better store of value than roubles under the mattress. It'll keep nicely at -30ºC, so a juicy return for a Russian peasant keeping it frozen for a few months.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited November 28
    Gregg Wallace sounds a right charmer....who the f##k does half this stuff. Footballers / rugby back in the day, but its a slightly different setting and not today.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    geoffw said:

    In Russia it's guns or butter despite what Putin says. This winter the scarce dairy product will be a better store of value than roubles under the mattress. It'll keep nicely at -30ºC, so a juicy return for a Russian peasant keeping it frozen for a few months.

    "Let them eat margarine."
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352
    DavidL said:

    To be honest I have never even heard of the team that are beating Man Utd at OT tonight.

    Now we will see what Amorim is made of.

    Well, they didn't want to go into the dressing room behind.
  • I'm sure that my new Czech chief will be tremendous, but I'd still prefer Royal Mail to be owned by the King

    I am interested to know what the angle is in owning Royal Mail. Is it some real estate play? Because there is no big money in delivering when you have to do the last mile for peanuts and Amazon is increasingly becoming the logistics service in the way they have become cloud compute with AWS e.g. if you are a business they will now pick up and delivery pallets of products for you.
    Some Sundays 90% of my parcel deliveries are from Amazon
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Can we just note that the Tories allowed one MILLION migrants, net, in one year

    For that alone they deserve to be sent to Hell, for eternal perdition, and Boris fucking "the FT will be my friend" Johnson should go to the 10th circle of Torment

    What should we do with the people that voted for it?
    Grrr. Dunno. EEJITS. Send them to the same place as the c*nts that voted for Sir Sheer Wanker
    Uruguay?
    Indeed. Or the Rhodope Mountains, or the fucking Faroe Islands

    *checks travel calendar*

    *is pleasantly surprised*
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?
    No, just a lost soul from the barbarian lands beyond the walls. Rich fruit pudding, boiled in a cloth (cf. Eng. 'clout') for 3 hours to get the correct glutinous coating. Though if one is in a hurry and can bear to miss the chewy coat, nuking it in a bowl in a microwave is also possible.

    https://bakingwithgranny.co.uk/recipe/clootie-dumpling/

    Edit: used to be our family tradition on Christmas day, with sherry trifle as an alternative/extra.

    Edit: haven't tried the recipe linked - just that it gives a good idea of the principle. Time of year to be planning one, too.
    It is also quite delicious fried (showing I am a true Scot) as part of a breakfast. The bard may have described Haggis as the great chieftain o' the pudding race but I would happily make the case for a clootie dumpling.
    Similarly, I enjoy a fried slice of Christmas pudding with fried potatoes for a boxing day breakfast.
    When you say "enjoy" - do you hit your todger with a mallet at the same time?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012
    Pro_Rata said:

    DavidL said:

    To be honest I have never even heard of the team that are beating Man Utd at OT tonight.

    Now we will see what Amorim is made of.

    Well, they didn't want to go into the dressing room behind.
    That was a cracking goal by Hojlund. Best thing I have seen him do since he came to the club.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,987
    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    What's this poached egg nonsense? Are you one of those health fanatics?

    "poach" it in lard...
    If you call it confit then it's posh and won't kill you.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?
    No, just a lost soul from the barbarian lands beyond the walls. Rich fruit pudding, boiled in a cloth (cf. Eng. 'clout') for 3 hours to get the correct glutinous coating. Though if one is in a hurry and can bear to miss the chewy coat, nuking it in a bowl in a microwave is also possible.

    https://bakingwithgranny.co.uk/recipe/clootie-dumpling/

    Edit: used to be our family tradition on Christmas day, with sherry trifle as an alternative/extra.

    Edit: haven't tried the recipe linked - just that it gives a good idea of the principle. Time of year to be planning one, too.
    It is also quite delicious fried (showing I am a true Scot) as part of a breakfast. The bard may have described Haggis as the great chieftain o' the pudding race but I would happily make the case for a clootie dumpling.
    Fried dumpling, haggis and black pudding with a square sausage and poached egg.
    I don’t think there’s any need to impose a hierarchy on perfection.
    What's this poached egg nonsense? Are you one of those health fanatics?
    Good to have one thing on the plate that won’t kill you, even it’s just for the look of it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Gregg Wallace sounds a right charmer....who the f##k does half this stuff. Footballers / rugby back in the day, but its a slightly different setting and not today.

    What did he do? Rape someone? I LOVE Masterchef and it is literally the last contact I have with the BBC

    That is honestly it, otherwise for me it is a broadcasting network roughly on a par with Dave 2
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,767

    I'm sure that my new Czech chief will be tremendous, but I'd still prefer Royal Mail to be owned by the King

    'Fraid the King's in zugzwang to a Czech, mate

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?

    Boil in a bag stodge ?
    The best stodge.
    @stodge is surely our best stodge ?
  • Generative Agent Simulations of 1,000 People
    https://arxiv.org/abs/2411.10109

    Big Dom was talking about this topic the other day and that his mini-me had created a similar system for polling / market research.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    Leon said:

    Gregg Wallace sounds a right charmer....who the f##k does half this stuff. Footballers / rugby back in the day, but its a slightly different setting and not today.

    What did he do? Rape someone? I LOVE Masterchef and it is literally the last contact I have with the BBC

    That is honestly it, otherwise for me it is a broadcasting network roughly on a par with Dave 2
    He's the least necessary part if it, though.

    Did you do Culinary Culture Wars yet ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited November 28
    Leon said:

    Gregg Wallace sounds a right charmer....who the f##k does half this stuff. Footballers / rugby back in the day, but its a slightly different setting and not today.

    What did he do? Rape someone? I LOVE Masterchef and it is literally the last contact I have with the BBC

    That is honestly it, otherwise for me it is a broadcasting network roughly on a par with Dave 2
    Walking around naked on set with a sock on his cock....basically sounds like he acted a poor man's noughties Wusselly Brand.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620

    I'm sure that my new Czech chief will be tremendous, but I'd still prefer Royal Mail to be owned by the King

    I am interested to know what the angle is in owning Royal Mail. Is it some real estate play? Because there is no big money in delivering when you have to do the last mile for peanuts and Amazon is increasingly becoming the logistics service in the way they have become cloud compute with AWS e.g. if you are a business they will now pick up and delivery pallets of products for you.
    Royal Mail's European parcel business GLS is profitable apparently, the analysis is he's going to strip that out and leave the rest mired in debt.
    As to wanting to be owned by the King, be careful what you wish for he's probably exempted from all employee rights legislation and paying the minimum wage.
  • Dopermean said:

    I'm sure that my new Czech chief will be tremendous, but I'd still prefer Royal Mail to be owned by the King

    I am interested to know what the angle is in owning Royal Mail. Is it some real estate play? Because there is no big money in delivering when you have to do the last mile for peanuts and Amazon is increasingly becoming the logistics service in the way they have become cloud compute with AWS e.g. if you are a business they will now pick up and delivery pallets of products for you.
    Royal Mail's European parcel business GLS is profitable apparently, the analysis is he's going to strip that out and leave the rest mired in debt.
    As to wanting to be owned by the King, be careful what you wish for he's probably exempted from all employee rights legislation and paying the minimum wage.
    I was thinking, do Royal Mail own all their premises, as the asset stripping move is sale and leaseback, and also how many depots are in places like central London that could be turned into very valuable housing?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Gregg Wallace sounds a right charmer....who the f##k does half this stuff. Footballers / rugby back in the day, but its a slightly different setting and not today.

    What did he do? Rape someone? I LOVE Masterchef and it is literally the last contact I have with the BBC

    That is honestly it, otherwise for me it is a broadcasting network roughly on a par with Dave 2
    Walking around naked on set with a sock on his cock....basically sounds like he acted a poor man's noughties Wusselly Brand.
    OMG how did Kirsty Wark cope. FFS. RiDICK

    (PS I'm not defending Gregg if he did something terrible but jeez, so far, get a grip, his whole persona is: bit of a lad)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Gregg Wallace sounds a right charmer....who the f##k does half this stuff. Footballers / rugby back in the day, but its a slightly different setting and not today.

    What did he do? Rape someone? I LOVE Masterchef and it is literally the last contact I have with the BBC

    That is honestly it, otherwise for me it is a broadcasting network roughly on a par with Dave 2
    He's the least necessary part if it, though.

    Did you do Culinary Culture Wars yet ?
    Tried. In Korea. Didn't do it for me
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    Spring spending review pushed back to June

    https://www.ft.com/content/edc2455b-95c0-4994-9a2d-1a41ad41ef80
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Offering some thought to the above - you "could" have a single national refuse collection contract overseen by OFCRAP or something similar. Every landfill or civic amenity site, every refuse disposal vehicle and all the staff would be transferred to the new provider who would function as the National Refuse Collection Authority.

    The NCRA would provide the same level of service across the whole country and every property would have no more than two bins - one for the general refuse and one for everythign which can be recycled. It would provide extra bins for commercial refuse. Via a sensor in the bin, each household could decide if it wanted a weekly, fortnightly or monthly rubbish collection and would be charged accordingly.

    Feasible? Perhaps - not sure of the costs or viability but we'd have a more homogenous service which should be the same in Guildford, Gosport or Gateshead.
    Are large providers more efficient than small?

    I know the 'economies of scale' argument, but aren't they stereotypically inflexible, with reduced local influence and no need to adapt?

    Suppose I'm naturally resistant to big consolidations. Can't look past monopolies being a poor option even in the public sector. Would favour local providers alla Preston. At least the money stays local.
    Of course - I was responding to @BartholomewRoberts and his half-witted comment about abolishing all local Government.
    I won’t let them do it Stodge. I won’t let them boil you in a bag. It would be so unfair!
    You’re not a bunny boiler.
    My Nan boiled fruitcake in cloth. 😋

    And she made the best Stollen. I try to do it the same, no sugar, no marzipan, but it’s always not spicy enough or too spicy, not just right like she always made it.

    God bless nan 🪽
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Gregg Wallace sounds a right charmer....who the f##k does half this stuff. Footballers / rugby back in the day, but its a slightly different setting and not today.

    What did he do? Rape someone? I LOVE Masterchef and it is literally the last contact I have with the BBC

    That is honestly it, otherwise for me it is a broadcasting network roughly on a par with Dave 2
    Walking around naked on set with a sock on his cock....basically sounds like he acted a poor man's noughties Wusselly Brand.
    OMG how did Kirsty Wark cope. FFS. RiDICK

    (PS I'm not defending Gregg if he did something terrible but jeez, so far, get a grip, his whole persona is: bit of a lad)
    Bit of a twat surely?

    His day in the life was thing of unconscious beauty though.

    https://x.com/josiahmortimer/status/1754789788505284809?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited November 28
    eek said:

    Spring spending review pushed back to June

    https://www.ft.com/content/edc2455b-95c0-4994-9a2d-1a41ad41ef80

    "Rachel Reeves has pushed back the timing of the Treasury’s multiyear spending review to June as the government struggles to get to grips with the volume of decisions it needs to make on its funding priorities."

    They didn't do their homework prior to government did they.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,379

    Generative Agent Simulations of 1,000 People
    https://arxiv.org/abs/2411.10109

    Big Dom was talking about this topic the other day and that his mini-me had created a similar system for polling / market research.

    This is catastrophically bloody stupid. Artificially generated personas are not people and even if they react like a person at time x, they will diverge rapidly and become useless. Anybody who agrees with this is basically advocating for sockpuppetry. MODELS ARE NOT REALITY. They just play one on the computer.

    I don't believe the doomer AI predictions but this stuff really has to stop. Google is not "the truth", models are not "real", the variability of models are not "the probability of the event". We are hitting "The Machine Stops" levels of stupidity. This is the kind of thing that can kill a civilisation.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012
    eek said:

    Spring spending review pushed back to June

    https://www.ft.com/content/edc2455b-95c0-4994-9a2d-1a41ad41ef80

    Did she learn nothing from the budget?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,379

    Leon said:

    Gregg Wallace sounds a right charmer....who the f##k does half this stuff. Footballers / rugby back in the day, but its a slightly different setting and not today.

    What did he do? Rape someone? I LOVE Masterchef and it is literally the last contact I have with the BBC

    That is honestly it, otherwise for me it is a broadcasting network roughly on a par with Dave 2
    Walking around naked on set with a sock on his cock....basically sounds like he acted a poor man's noughties Wusselly Brand.
    Never go full Barrowman. For the love of God, I'd've fired him.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited November 28
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Gregg Wallace sounds a right charmer....who the f##k does half this stuff. Footballers / rugby back in the day, but its a slightly different setting and not today.

    What did he do? Rape someone? I LOVE Masterchef and it is literally the last contact I have with the BBC

    That is honestly it, otherwise for me it is a broadcasting network roughly on a par with Dave 2
    Walking around naked on set with a sock on his cock....basically sounds like he acted a poor man's noughties Wusselly Brand.
    Never go full Barrowman. For the love of God, I'd've fired him.
    But he's the "talent"....the bar for what flies in the BBC does seem all over the place e.g. Jenas got the boot immediately for texts to women that overstepped the mark into pestering, but it was as much for the "power dynamics" as anything else.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Gregg Wallace sounds a right charmer....who the f##k does half this stuff. Footballers / rugby back in the day, but its a slightly different setting and not today.

    What did he do? Rape someone? I LOVE Masterchef and it is literally the last contact I have with the BBC

    That is honestly it, otherwise for me it is a broadcasting network roughly on a par with Dave 2
    Walking around naked on set with a sock on his cock....basically sounds like he acted a poor man's noughties Wusselly Brand.
    OMG how did Kirsty Wark cope. FFS. RiDICK

    (PS I'm not defending Gregg if he did something terrible but jeez, so far, get a grip, his whole persona is: bit of a lad)
    Bit of a twat surely?

    His day in the life was thing of unconscious beauty though.

    https://x.com/josiahmortimer/status/1754789788505284809?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
    Amazingly, you can be both. I certainly was. A weird combo of twat/lad/intellectual

    Got me laid. Occasionally
  • I've just made my biggest individual purchase of at least the last two years

    I've spent £285 on a 30 litre mash boiler for beer brewing

    Well, I've just paid that much, but I've spent half of it. I'm going full into home brewing with my best mate

    I live in a tiny townhouse, he lives in a decent size farmhouse (but not a farm), with plenty of space for our new hobby

    Our aim is to replace our beer buying with our brewing, which would save us both quite a bit of cash

    If we can do it well, we've got room to expand
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    Leon said:

    Can we just note that the Tories allowed one MILLION migrants, net, in one year

    For that alone they deserve to be sent to Hell, for eternal perdition, and Boris fucking "the FT will be my friend" Johnson should go to the 10th circle of Torment

    The absolute arses who voted both for them and Starmer must be reassessing their ability to extrapolate, don't you think ?
  • viewcode said:

    Generative Agent Simulations of 1,000 People
    https://arxiv.org/abs/2411.10109

    Big Dom was talking about this topic the other day and that his mini-me had created a similar system for polling / market research.

    This is catastrophically bloody stupid. Artificially generated personas are not people and even if they react like a person at time x, they will diverge rapidly and become useless. Anybody who agrees with this is basically advocating for sockpuppetry. MODELS ARE NOT REALITY. They just play one on the computer.

    I don't believe the doomer AI predictions but this stuff really has to stop. Google is not "the truth", models are not "real", the variability of models are not "the probability of the event". We are hitting "The Machine Stops" levels of stupidity. This is the kind of thing that can kill a civilisation.
    You just wait somebody will give mini-me Dom $100m's in funding.....what could possibly go wrong.
  • SteveSSteveS Posts: 190

    I've just made my biggest individual purchase of at least the last two years

    I've spent £285 on a 30 litre mash boiler for beer brewing

    Well, I've just paid that much, but I've spent half of it. I'm going full into home brewing with my best mate

    I live in a tiny townhouse, he lives in a decent size farmhouse (but not a farm), with plenty of space for our new hobby

    Our aim is to replace our beer buying with our brewing, which would save us both quite a bit of cash

    If we can do it well, we've got room to expand

    Get this book.

    https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/products/big-book-of-brewing-book-dave-line-9781854862358?sku=GOR001892620&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADZzAIA3GKzPsorDVbTDgiz_OSUhH

    You can buy me a bottle of champagne as a thank you later
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited November 28

    I've just made my biggest individual purchase of at least the last two years

    I've spent £285 on a 30 litre mash boiler for beer brewing

    Well, I've just paid that much, but I've spent half of it. I'm going full into home brewing with my best mate

    I live in a tiny townhouse, he lives in a decent size farmhouse (but not a farm), with plenty of space for our new hobby

    Our aim is to replace our beer buying with our brewing, which would save us both quite a bit of cash

    If we can do it well, we've got room to expand

    I always wondered how much cheaper it actually ends up? Cos baking bread isn't really that much cheaper (not when factoring in your own time), but its a much better product.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Can we just note that the Tories allowed one MILLION migrants, net, in one year

    For that alone they deserve to be sent to Hell, for eternal perdition, and Boris fucking "the FT will be my friend" Johnson should go to the 10th circle of Torment

    The absolute arses who voted both for them and Starmer must be reassessing their ability to extrapolate, don't you think ?
    Quite so

    Personally, I'd exile them to Uruguay. Or even Bulgaria. Or, fuck it, Uzbekistan

    LET THEM BE GONE
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,882
    edited November 28

    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Offering some thought to the above - you "could" have a single national refuse collection contract overseen by OFCRAP or something similar. Every landfill or civic amenity site, every refuse disposal vehicle and all the staff would be transferred to the new provider who would function as the National Refuse Collection Authority.

    The NCRA would provide the same level of service across the whole country and every property would have no more than two bins - one for the general refuse and one for everythign which can be recycled. It would provide extra bins for commercial refuse. Via a sensor in the bin, each household could decide if it wanted a weekly, fortnightly or monthly rubbish collection and would be charged accordingly.

    Feasible? Perhaps - not sure of the costs or viability but we'd have a more homogenous service which should be the same in Guildford, Gosport or Gateshead.
    Are large providers more efficient than small?

    I know the 'economies of scale' argument, but aren't they stereotypically inflexible, with reduced local influence and no need to adapt?

    Suppose I'm naturally resistant to big consolidations. Can't look past monopolies being a poor option even in the public sector. Would favour local providers alla Preston. At least the money stays local.
    Of course - I was responding to @BartholomewRoberts and his half-witted comment about abolishing all local Government.
    I won’t let them do it Stodge. I won’t let them boil you in a bag. It would be so unfair!
    You’re not a bunny boiler.
    My Nan boiled fruitcake in cloth. 😋

    And she made the best Stollen. I try to do it the same, no sugar, no marzipan, but it’s always not spicy enough or too spicy, not just right like she always made it.

    God bless nan 🪽
    I can tell you about fruit vinegar.

    My chuckleberry vinegar is at day 5, having been potato mashed every day, and the extra space having had extra chuckleberries added.

    It's nearly at blow-your-blanks-off intensity. Two more days.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited November 28
    By sheer happenstance, turns out I am off to Uruguay in March, now confirmed. Weird
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Gregg Wallace sounds a right charmer....who the f##k does half this stuff. Footballers / rugby back in the day, but its a slightly different setting and not today.

    What did he do? Rape someone? I LOVE Masterchef and it is literally the last contact I have with the BBC

    That is honestly it, otherwise for me it is a broadcasting network roughly on a par with Dave 2
    He's the least necessary part if it, though.

    Did you do Culinary Culture Wars yet ?
    Tried. In Korea. Didn't do it for me
    First episode was slow, but the rest was better than Masterchef, IMO.
    Then again, I like K culture.
  • Every pensioner household in Scotland will receive a winter fuel payment next year, the Scottish government has announced.

    Social Justice Secretary Shirley-Anne Somerville said those in receipt of qualifying benefits like Pension Credit would get £200 or £300 depending on their age, while all others would get £100.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj6kl7ywe07o
This discussion has been closed.