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Following in Ted Heath’s footsteps – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,212
edited December 3 in General
Following in Ted Heath’s footsteps – politicalbetting.com

– Move led by No10 comes with promises of devolution– White paper out before Christmas – May elections go ahead. New mayors in place as soon as 2026– Gov sources insist only willing areas participate– Some say democratic accountability at stakehttps://t.co/7WFMlbvGjz

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    I once wrote a dissertation on this subject.
    Conclusion: there is no 'right' answer and all approaches have merits.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835
    Too much of the zeal of the convert about Starmer on immigration. Sounding a bit like May over-compensating for having been a remainer.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    May lead to a reduction in councillors but also could lead to less local links from councils. Voters who currently have a district council based in their town could instead end up with a Unitary authority based in a city or large town at the other end of the county if more counties see County and District councils merged into Unitaries.

    Would therefore need to see stronger Parish and Town Councils too if the proposals are to work properly
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,916
    edited November 28
    carnforth said:

    Too much of the zeal of the convert about Starmer on immigration. Sounding a bit like May over-compensating for having been a remainer.

    If he’s smart, he knows his government might very much live or die by getting numbers down by a fair chunk.

    He is doing the usual Starmer thing of unflashy, wait and see, hard graft, competence, wait for the results. Of course that only works if he actually does deliver results, but then that’s the gamble he and his government is taking on pretty much everything.

    Unflashy, middle of the road politics isn’t really en vogue at the moment. If he can land it then he’ll have done very well indeed. Jury very much out though.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,358
    carnforth said:

    Too much of the zeal of the convert about Starmer on immigration. Sounding a bit like May over-compensating for having been a remainer.

    It's very ju-jitsu. I'm genuinely surprised.

    No idea if it will work but I guess might be quite effective to undermine Tory attack lines. I worry it sets up Reform as the obvious next step for the country.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835
    On small boats, no matter how many return agreements we have, there will always be countries we won't return people to - because they are too unsafe. So the numbers from those countries are unlimited. Starmer's position here appears to be to simply hope these numbers reduce, or don't increase too fast. That old crises fade and no new ones arise. Not sure he'll be lucky.
  • One tier Keir.

    Magnificent.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    rkrkrk said:

    carnforth said:

    Too much of the zeal of the convert about Starmer on immigration. Sounding a bit like May over-compensating for having been a remainer.

    It's very ju-jitsu. I'm genuinely surprised.

    No idea if it will work but I guess might be quite effective to undermine Tory attack lines. I worry it sets up Reform as the obvious next step for the country.
    All Morgan's work I would say.
  • carnforth said:

    Too much of the zeal of the convert about Starmer on immigration. Sounding a bit like May over-compensating for having been a remainer.

    imo May was a Leaver pretending to be a Remainer, and Boris a Remainer pretending to be a Leaver.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    Donald Trump has selected his Ukraine envoy:

    Trump picks Keith Kellogg to serve as special envoy to Ukraine and Russia
    Retired US army general and former Pence aide tapped for newly conceived role to negotiate amid ongoing war

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/27/trump-cabinet-keith-kellogg-ukraine

    (You can read it - the Times is currently free. I have not checked whether Mr Cornflakes is one of the generals Chump wanted to have shot.)
  • OT while the last thread discussed pharmacies, I was in one, and came away with some delightful Ukraine-themed blue and yellow capsules.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    Meanwhile, the ticking bomb that is the higher education meltdown steadily ticks nearer kaboom.



    Glen O'Hara
    @gsoh31.bsky.social‬

    Newcastle University staff consider strike action against £35m of cuts there (out of a total income just over £600m). A sector in complete disarray. www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-e...

    https://bsky.app/profile/gsoh31.bsky.social/post/3lbzmmy52ac25
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    MattW said:

    Donald Trump has selected his Ukraine envoy:

    Trump picks Keith Kellogg to serve as special envoy to Ukraine and Russia
    Retired US army general and former Pence aide tapped for newly conceived role to negotiate amid ongoing war

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/27/trump-cabinet-keith-kellogg-ukraine

    (You can read it - the Times is currently free. I have not checked whether Mr Cornflakes is one of the generals Chump wanted to have shot.)

    Retread from his First Glorious Administration.
  • Well Labour is certainly doing stuff.
  • MattW said:

    Donald Trump has selected his Ukraine envoy:

    Trump picks Keith Kellogg to serve as special envoy to Ukraine and Russia
    Retired US army general and former Pence aide tapped for newly conceived role to negotiate amid ongoing war

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/27/trump-cabinet-keith-kellogg-ukraine

    (You can read it - the Times is currently free. I have not checked whether Mr Cornflakes is one of the generals Chump wanted to have shot.)

    The Times is only free because that is the Guardian. The actual Times is still paywalled but has a Black Friday £1 for four months offer.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807

    Well Labour is certainly doing stuff.

    I don't altogether see how Labour think they have the money or the political capital to have a play with the constitution, but I presume they realise if they don't do it now there won't be another chance.
  • Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.
  • Well Labour is certainly doing stuff.

    I don't altogether see how Labour think they have the money or the political capital to have a play with the constitution, but I presume they realise if they don't do it now there won't be another chance.
    My view is that they’ve got nothing to lose now. It’s early and they are unpopular.

    It’s clear they hope people will still blame the Tories for the major issues (as per 2015 but the other way around) and that they make progress on immigration and house building.

    I lean 51% one term government. But I don’t think it will be the Tories getting in next time.
  • First poll with conservatives at 30% and 3 point lead ?

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1862198516564537353?t=RD_gMloGTCTi5XEFt0bcNw&s=19
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    Well Labour is certainly doing stuff.

    Yes it is.

    1.Abolishing WFA on everyone not in receipt of WFA

    2.Selling off infrastructure to Blackrock and other donors

    3.Increasing private health involvement in the NHS (please note donors have huge interests)

    4.Setting up a massive energy PFI heads the taxpayer takes all the risk tails the taxpayer loses whilst the private sector takes all the upside called GB Energy.

    5.Enabling Genocide without batting an eyelid.

    Of course its not doing stuff like taking children out of poverty or taxing those with huge wealth *

    *Its against its donors interests so why would it

  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,358

    Well Labour is certainly doing stuff.

    I don't altogether see how Labour think they have the money or the political capital to have a play with the constitution, but I presume they realise if they don't do it now there won't be another chance.
    Tories were pro unitary authorities also weren't they? I don't see this as particularly interesting to the general population.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012
    Yep, a few billion on local government reorganisation. Just what we need /s
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,358
    DavidL said:

    Yep, a few billion on local government reorganisation. Just what we need /s

    Article says Labour are hoping to save £3bn over 5 years. I think certainly plausible in the long run this could save money. But likely to cost in short term as you say.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,894

    Well Labour is certainly doing stuff.

    Quite a contrast to how moribund the Tories had become.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    MattW said:

    Donald Trump has selected his Ukraine envoy:

    Trump picks Keith Kellogg to serve as special envoy to Ukraine and Russia

    Is he a froot loop or are things about to get Frosty
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    MattW said:

    Donald Trump has selected his Ukraine envoy:

    Trump picks Keith Kellogg to serve as special envoy to Ukraine and Russia

    Is he a froot loop or are things about to get Frosty
    Madonna was his first choice as a pop tart i hear but had to settle for special K
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    X
    Mark Wallace@wallaceme
    In August 2020, Ladbrokes unwisely gave me 80/1 odds for a bet on @TheRock
    becoming US President before 2050. I bet £25. Fast forward four years and now The Observer is writing about his chances... This might yet be the best bet I ever made.

    https://x.com/wallaceme/status/1862192819730809072
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877

    MattW said:

    Donald Trump has selected his Ukraine envoy:

    Trump picks Keith Kellogg to serve as special envoy to Ukraine and Russia

    Is he a froot loop or are things about to get Frosty
    He's 80, and knows the Ukraine War, has been a talking head about it for some time, and has made proposals in the past.

    Conversation on Ukraine the Latest today.

    Also an interview with Boris Johnson.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHRzuHYxy6s
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,125
    edited November 28
    Ted Heath is very much the Prime Minister Starmer resembles most - both one-time extremists turned uncharismatic centrists who believe that if there are problems, technocratic tinkering within government, rather than getting it off people's backs, is what is needed.

    Maybe this reform will lead to slightly greater efficiency, but I think the likeliest result is several years of upheaval and disruption, significant "one-off" restructuring costs that become ongoing, and powerful unions and anonymous local government bureaucrats looking on it as a chance to feather their own nests rather than manage their jobs out of existence.

    I hope to be wrong, though the precedent of previous restructuring efforts in government isn't encouraging. Announcing measures that look impressive on PowerPoint is easy, but the incredibly lengthy, detailed and boring business of implementing them by delivering savings of 3.75 FTEs in road sweeping in Huddersfield or Bodmin or whatever is much, much harder, and one that Labour, the party of big government and public sector unions, is about the last organisation I'd choose to implement.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012
    Fishing said:

    Ted Heath is very much the Prime Minister Starmer resembles most - both uncharismatic centrists who believe that if there are problems, technocratic tinkering within government, rather than getting it off people's backs, is what is needed.

    Maybe this reform will lead to slightly greater efficiency, but I think the likeliest result is several years of upheaval and disruption, significant "one-off" restructuring costs that become ongoing, and powerful unions and anonymous local government bureaucrats looking on it as a chance to feather their own nests rather than manage their jobs out of existence.

    I hope to be wrong, though the precedent of previous restructuring efforts in government isn't encouraging. Announcing measures that look impressive on PowerPoint is easy, but the incredibly lengthy, detailed and boring business of implementing them by delivering savings of 3.75 FTEs in road sweeping in Huddersfield or Bodmin or whatever is much, much harder.

    Hmm... Ted Heath was all at sea and more than ready to face the music. Starmer is just dull. Boring, unimaginative and dull.
  • algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Who would award and oversee the contracts?
  • algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Who would award and oversee the contracts?
    Any junior minister's department could handle it without any expensive local elections or local infrastructure needed.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352
    Off topic, did we ever cover Richard Osman on the disappearance of recognisable bands. Just seen the clip from a few weeks ago, the extent of the decline is quite extraordinary, way beyond what I was aware of.

    Over 50% of time at number one was occupied by fixed bands in the early 80s and 90s, whilst the equivalent figure for the early 2020s is going to be around 1%.

    It'll be time soon to sum up our music for the year, the 3 albums I have listened to on repeat are all by bands. I knew my taste tended somewhat to old familiarity, but I never thought the whole concept of liking a band itself aged me so badly.

    https://youtu.be/OKkiIEwQ1D4?si=wuT_Hwuw2XniYbSS

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited November 28
    I can't find the white paper on the Local Authority changes.

    Thoughts:

    1 - It looks like a rolling through of the expansion of the Regional / Metro Mayor system. We currently have 25 covering around 25 millions people.

    I'd say that we are getting 3 tiers: Regions higher than Counties, Unitaries on a scale somewhat below countries, and Parishes. Plus City unitaries of various sizes.

    IMO local authorities in the UK tend to be too large at the District level, and I quite like the French devolve-down model.

    2 - It's a way of managing Local Authorities which are on the edge of insolvency.

    3 - It may be a way of Reforming LG finance, which is desperately needed, and desperately needs a major boost, long term stability, and capacity building.

    And local regions need stronger ways to not be the playthings of petty Westminster politics, and to be able to tell Westminster to go f*ck itself, where necessary.

    4 - What will happen to Elections next year, and the effects? I'm not sure - I was looking forward to the Conservatives getting a richly deserved (since it's Die Hard time) b*tt-f*cking on national TV, and Ashfield Independents getting their leadership decapitated. But OTOH it will potentially prevent Reform gains in the short term.

    On balance? I'm not sure. I'm not very keen on historic counties being split up, if that is what happens. I think that those areas are important in our mental furniture.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Who would award and oversee the contracts?
    Any junior minister's department could handle it without any expensive local elections or local infrastructure needed.
    Surely collecting rubbish requires a certain amount of local infrastructure, unless you think it can be picked up by drone?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,984
    Evening all :)

    Local Government reorganisation - another idea whose time has apparently come. It's worth noting at this stage there's no sense of compulsion and if you look at the political composition of Counties and District/Borough Councils the 2021 elections (which left 17 of the 21 County Councils in majority Conservative control) were followed by District and Borough cycles in 2022, 2023 and 2024 which saw the Conservatives ousted from dozens of second tier Councils.

    In Surrey, for example, the Conservatives still control the County but have been driven out of most District and Borough Councils within the county and the relationship between County and District/Borough is more like that of the USA and USSR in late October 1962.

    The County thinks it should run everything - the Districts and Boroughs want two or three smaller Unitaries.

    If no one wants to re-organise will they be forced to? Time will tell.

    As for the mechanics, if you create a single County authority, it would have to take on a range of functions with which the County currently isn't involved such as refuse collection, council tax administration and crematoria. Replacing 11 Council Tax collection systems with just one sounds like a big saving but I'm sceptical.

    Going to 2-3 Unitaries from a County plus 11 Districts and Boroughs will mean replicating or triplicating the social care, property, legal, financial, procurement and HR systems as well as re-designing all the contracts.

    There may be savings to be had in the medium or longer term but a lost of initial transitional costs.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    Meanwhile, the ticking bomb that is the higher education meltdown steadily ticks nearer kaboom.



    Glen O'Hara
    @gsoh31.bsky.social‬

    Newcastle University staff consider strike action against £35m of cuts there (out of a total income just over £600m). A sector in complete disarray. www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-e...

    https://bsky.app/profile/gsoh31.bsky.social/post/3lbzmmy52ac25

    This week the North East universities announced a new campaigning organization. Previously Durham and Kings college, Durham (Newcastle) were happy to watch Teesside and Sunderland to die - now it’s finally dawned on them that they both have serious problems
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Who would award and oversee the contracts?
    Benjamin Netanyahu?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877

    MattW said:

    Donald Trump has selected his Ukraine envoy:

    Trump picks Keith Kellogg to serve as special envoy to Ukraine and Russia
    Retired US army general and former Pence aide tapped for newly conceived role to negotiate amid ongoing war

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/27/trump-cabinet-keith-kellogg-ukraine

    (You can read it - the Times is currently free. I have not checked whether Mr Cornflakes is one of the generals Chump wanted to have shot.)

    The Times is only free because that is the Guardian. The actual Times is still paywalled but has a Black Friday £1 for four months offer.
    Thank-you.

    @TSE distracted me.

    The "You are reading this for free" one at the Times is on the on-topic Local Government piece. No idea who the share token belongs to.

    But it may not be free for the rest of you :smile:

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/4d4a7913-85c0-45ac-af93-ac92e13e58ea?shareToken=0d590b3b978bf8b133b53ee1084d2d64
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Local Government reorganisation - another idea whose time has apparently come. It's worth noting at this stage there's no sense of compulsion and if you look at the political composition of Counties and District/Borough Councils the 2021 elections (which left 17 of the 21 County Councils in majority Conservative control) were followed by District and Borough cycles in 2022, 2023 and 2024 which saw the Conservatives ousted from dozens of second tier Councils.

    In Surrey, for example, the Conservatives still control the County but have been driven out of most District and Borough Councils within the county and the relationship between County and District/Borough is more like that of the USA and USSR in late October 1962.

    The County thinks it should run everything - the Districts and Boroughs want two or three smaller Unitaries.

    If no one wants to re-organise will they be forced to? Time will tell.

    As for the mechanics, if you create a single County authority, it would have to take on a range of functions with which the County currently isn't involved such as refuse collection, council tax administration and crematoria. Replacing 11 Council Tax collection systems with just one sounds like a big saving but I'm sceptical.

    Going to 2-3 Unitaries from a County plus 11 Districts and Boroughs will mean replicating or triplicating the social care, property, legal, financial, procurement and HR systems as well as re-designing all the contracts.

    There may be savings to be had in the medium or longer term but a lost of initial transitional costs.

    It’s perfectly possible that a lot of those internal systems may have already been merged. Darlington and Stockton’s finance /HR has been merged for 20+ years. In Buckinghamshire they merged planning well before the councils themselves merged
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,984

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Offering some thought to the above - you "could" have a single national refuse collection contract overseen by OFCRAP or something similar. Every landfill or civic amenity site, every refuse disposal vehicle and all the staff would be transferred to the new provider who would function as the National Refuse Collection Authority.

    The NCRA would provide the same level of service across the whole country and every property would have no more than two bins - one for the general refuse and one for everythign which can be recycled. It would provide extra bins for commercial refuse. Via a sensor in the bin, each household could decide if it wanted a weekly, fortnightly or monthly rubbish collection and would be charged accordingly.

    Feasible? Perhaps - not sure of the costs or viability but we'd have a more homogenous service which should be the same in Guildford, Gosport or Gateshead.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited November 28
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Donald Trump has selected his Ukraine envoy:

    Trump picks Keith Kellogg to serve as special envoy to Ukraine and Russia

    Is he a froot loop or are things about to get Frosty
    He's 80, and knows the Ukraine War, has been a talking head about it for some time, and has made proposals in the past.

    Conversation on Ukraine the Latest today.

    Also an interview with Boris Johnson.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHRzuHYxy6s
    He didn't see Corbyn coming, then. That was 200:1, wasn't it?

    Aside I missed earlier.

    On Ukraine the Latest, there was also mention of a group of European countries around Ukraine and other things comprising UK, Germany, France, Italy, Poland.

    Reaction to Trump coming in, and a potential core for a coalition of the willing? The inclusion of Germany may questions that, or maybe their inclusion bearing in mind their likely next Government.

    And Boris going into full rhetoric on the Chagos question, "Lefty Bollocks. 99 years is a heartbeat."
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Who would award and oversee the contracts?
    Benjamin Netanyahu?
    That's a bold idea. He obviously knows a thing or two about procurement.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012
    MattW said:

    I can't find the white paper on the Local Authority changes.

    Thoughts:

    1 - It looks like a rolling through of the expansion of the Regional / Metro Mayor system. We currently have 25 covering around 25 millions people.

    I'd say that we are getting 3 tiers: Regions higher than Counties, Unitaries on a scale somewhat below countries, and Parishes. Plus City unitaries of various sizes.

    IMO local authorities in the UK tend to be too large at the District level, and I quite like the French devolve-down model.

    2 - It's a way of managing Local Authorities which are on the edge of insolvency.

    3 - It may be a way of Reforming LG finance, which is desperately needed, and desperately needs a major boost, long term stability, and capacity building.

    And local regions need stronger ways to not be the playthings of petty Westminster politics, and to be able to tell Westminster to go f*ck itself, where necessary.

    4 - What will happen to Elections next year, and the effects? I'm not sure - I was looking forward to the Conservatives getting a richly deserved (since it's Die Hard time) b*tt-f*cking on national TV, and Ashfield Independents getting their leadership decapitated. But OTOH it will potentially prevent Reform gains in the short term.

    On balance? I'm not sure. I'm not very keen on historic counties being split up, if that is what happens. I think that those areas are important in our mental furniture.

    On 3, the chances of any major boost to LG spending in the current environment is less than zero. It is more likely to go the other way. Central government will squeeze the pips of LG before they touch the things that they are directly responsible for. That's just the way it is. Ask any Scottish Local Authority, the SG have been doing this for for more than a decade and the cumulative damage is immense.

    One of the things that is pissing people off is that they see themselves paying more and more in taxes for less and less in the way of services. A lot of that is LG based. It damaged the last government considerably. It is very likely to do so for this government too. When we are scraping for pennies reorganisations are really not a good idea.
  • Not quite so good for Reform on this one. Con and Lab take some solace, especially Kemi. Ed Davey hopes of reaching number 1 in Christmas poll charts looking remote.


    Election Maps UK
    @ElectionMapsUK
    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 30% (+2)
    LAB: 27% (+2)
    RFM: 18% (-1)
    LDM: 12% (-1)
    GRN: 8% (=)
    SNP: 2% (-1)

    Via
    @Moreincommon_
    , 26-27 Nov.
    Changes w/ 19-21 Nov.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Czech billionaire closes in on deal to buy Royal Mail

    SKS's Czech mate or 5D chess game!
  • WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Who would award and oversee the contracts?
    Benjamin Netanyahu?
    That's a bold idea. He obviously knows a thing or two about procurement.
    Talks Rubbish!

    Although if that's the criteria maybe I should throw my hat in the ring
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited November 28
    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    I can't find the white paper on the Local Authority changes.

    Thoughts:

    1 - It looks like a rolling through of the expansion of the Regional / Metro Mayor system. We currently have 25 covering around 25 millions people.

    I'd say that we are getting 3 tiers: Regions higher than Counties, Unitaries on a scale somewhat below countries, and Parishes. Plus City unitaries of various sizes.

    IMO local authorities in the UK tend to be too large at the District level, and I quite like the French devolve-down model.

    2 - It's a way of managing Local Authorities which are on the edge of insolvency.

    3 - It may be a way of Reforming LG finance, which is desperately needed, and desperately needs a major boost, long term stability, and capacity building.

    And local regions need stronger ways to not be the playthings of petty Westminster politics, and to be able to tell Westminster to go f*ck itself, where necessary.

    4 - What will happen to Elections next year, and the effects? I'm not sure - I was looking forward to the Conservatives getting a richly deserved (since it's Die Hard time) b*tt-f*cking on national TV, and Ashfield Independents getting their leadership decapitated. But OTOH it will potentially prevent Reform gains in the short term.

    On balance? I'm not sure. I'm not very keen on historic counties being split up, if that is what happens. I think that those areas are important in our mental furniture.

    On 3, the chances of any major boost to LG spending in the current environment is less than zero. It is more likely to go the other way. Central government will squeeze the pips of LG before they touch the things that they are directly responsible for. That's just the way it is. Ask any Scottish Local Authority, the SG have been doing this for for more than a decade and the cumulative damage is immense.

    One of the things that is pissing people off is that they see themselves paying more and more in taxes for less and less in the way of services. A lot of that is LG based. It damaged the last government considerably. It is very likely to do so for this government too. When we are scraping for pennies reorganisations are really not a good idea.
    I'm not sure on Barnet consequentials, however in England in the Budget LG core expenditure was increased by 3.2% in real terms, which is a (small) reversal of previous trends. I'm not sure how that maps to imposed service demands.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,690
    edited November 28
    stodge said:

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Offering some thought to the above - you "could" have a single national refuse collection contract overseen by OFCRAP or something similar. Every landfill or civic amenity site, every refuse disposal vehicle and all the staff would be transferred to the new provider who would function as the National Refuse Collection Authority.

    The NCRA would provide the same level of service across the whole country and every property would have no more than two bins - one for the general refuse and one for everythign which can be recycled. It would provide extra bins for commercial refuse. Via a sensor in the bin, each household could decide if it wanted a weekly, fortnightly or monthly rubbish collection and would be charged accordingly.

    Feasible? Perhaps - not sure of the costs or viability but we'd have a more homogenous service which should be the same in Guildford, Gosport or Gateshead.
    Are large providers more efficient than small?

    I know the 'economies of scale' argument, but aren't they stereotypically inflexible, with reduced local influence and no need to adapt?

    Suppose I'm naturally resistant to big consolidations. Can't look past monopolies being a poor option even in the public sector. Would favour local providers alla Preston. At least the money stays local.
  • WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Reading between the lines, that’s quite damning.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Wheras Wes Streeting definitely did not set fire to a pet shop
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330

    Well Labour is certainly doing stuff.

    Yes it is.

    1.Abolishing WFA on everyone not in receipt of WFA

    2.Selling off infrastructure to Blackrock and other donors

    3.Increasing private health involvement in the NHS (please note donors have huge interests)

    4.Setting up a massive energy PFI heads the taxpayer takes all the risk tails the taxpayer loses whilst the private sector takes all the upside called GB Energy.

    5.Enabling Genocide without batting an eyelid.

    Of course its not doing stuff like taking children out of poverty or taxing those with huge wealth *

    *Its against its donors interests so why would it

    Isn't 1 a bit, erm, *difficult*?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    edited November 28

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Reading between the lines, that’s quite damning.
    These are the bits that are utterly damning.

    However, three separate sources claimed she made the false report to benefit personally, with two of the sources alleging she wanted a more modern work handset that was being rolled out to her colleagues at the time.

    The now cabinet minister had been working as a public policy manager at Aviva, but two sources said she lost her job at the insurance firm because of the incident.
  • WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    With that she should be gone and Starmer will probably be relieved to get rid of her.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Reeves might add it to her CV if there is money to be made.
  • WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Reading between the lines, that’s quite damning.
    These are the bits that are utterly damning.

    However, three separate sources claimed she made the false report to benefit personally, with two of the sources alleging she wanted a more modern work handset that was being rolled out to her colleagues at the time.

    The now cabinet minister had been working as a public policy manager at Aviva, but two sources said she lost her job at the insurance firm because of the incident.
    Presumably she reported the "loss" to her employer, and they told her she'd have to pay unless she provided a crime report number...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    I hadn't twigged that Haigh is only 37.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Much ado about nothing isn't it? 10 years ago, facts are very unclear, sums involved trivial. Slightly underwhelming but not career ending unless Starmer is irritated by her anyway.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Carnyx said:

    Well Labour is certainly doing stuff.

    Yes it is.

    1.Abolishing WFA on everyone not in receipt of WFA

    2.Selling off infrastructure to Blackrock and other donors

    3.Increasing private health involvement in the NHS (please note donors have huge interests)

    4.Setting up a massive energy PFI heads the taxpayer takes all the risk tails the taxpayer loses whilst the private sector takes all the upside called GB Energy.

    5.Enabling Genocide without batting an eyelid.

    Of course its not doing stuff like taking children out of poverty or taxing those with huge wealth *

    *Its against its donors interests so why would it

    Isn't 1 a bit, erm, *difficult*?
    It is indeed

    2nd WFA should be Pension Credit
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    DavidL said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Much ado about nothing isn't it? 10 years ago, facts are very unclear, sums involved trivial. Slightly underwhelming but not career ending unless Starmer is irritated by her anyway.
    Who among us hasn't made false accusations to the police for personal gain?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    Will it hurt LibDems most if they lose swathes of councillors who tithe their councillor income?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Yes, it's possible to have bin collections without politicians. But if there isn't a single layer of local government (without politicians perhaps), then central government will have to put it out to tender or decide who does and make sure they have fed the cat turned the lights out, and answer my phone call about the failure to collect the paper recycling on Wednesday.

    Alternatives: restore the powers of the parish vestry, or give it all to justices of the peace.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited November 28
  • Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Yes, it's possible to have bin collections without politicians. But if there isn't a single layer of local government (without politicians perhaps), then central government will have to put it out to tender or decide who does and make sure they have fed the cat turned the lights out, and answer my phone call about the failure to collect the paper recycling on Wednesday.

    Alternatives: restore the powers of the parish vestry, or give it all to justices of the peace.
    It's\ not for nothing that in Scottish history the very concept of municipal sanitation is bound up with the concept of the modern "police burgh", as it was called then ('policing' including sanitation, cf. the modern US armed forces).
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Reeves might add it to her CV if there is money to be made.
    RR already has a new job for when BR abolishes all tiers of local government - her letterbox at No 11 is where we put our council tax payments, weekly in cash.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143

    DavidL said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Much ado about nothing isn't it? 10 years ago, facts are very unclear, sums involved trivial. Slightly underwhelming but not career ending unless Starmer is irritated by her anyway.
    Who among us hasn't made false accusations to the police for personal gain?
    27% of UK adults, 12.5m of us, have a criminal record.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    Remarkably, on topic, totals published as the "Have a picture of the King" scheme has come to a close.

    Welsh public authorities are very ungrateful to their long-term Prince. :smile:

    Broken down by individual nations within the UK, the total take-up for all from Government Departments, Arm’s-length bodies (ALB), and Local Authorities in England was 82.7%; in Scotland it was 68.3%; for Wales it was 15.6%; and for Northern Ireland it was 11.5%.
    ...
    Broken down by individual nations within the UK, the total take-up for all eligible public authorities and institutions in England was 33.5%; in Scotland it was 13.7%; for Wales it was 13.8%; and for Northern Ireland it was 10.5%.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/conclusion-of-his-majesty-the-kings-free-portrait-scheme
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    edited November 28

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?
    No, just a lost soul from the barbarian lands beyond the walls. Rich fruit pudding, boiled in a cloth (cf. Eng. 'clout') for 3 hours to get the correct glutinous coating. Though if one is in a hurry and can bear to miss the chewy coat, nuking it in a bowl in a microwave is also possible.

    https://bakingwithgranny.co.uk/recipe/clootie-dumpling/

    Edit: used to be our family tradition on Christmas day, with sherry trifle as an alternative/extra.

    Edit: haven't tried the recipe linked - just that it gives a good idea of the principle. Time of year to be planning one, too.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited November 28
    I'm a big supporter of merging districts and councils, but having combined authorities on top of larger unitaries just feels like retaining two-tier by convoluted other means (with mayors, council-leaders etc). There needs to be greater consistency, but the extent and powers of combined authorities still seems to be negotiated on a case by case basis.

    That said, whilst I support unitarisation, I don't agree with the way ministers have been describing some aspects of it - I would be skeptical the unitaries have been significantly more blocking of development than districts. A bit more, maybe.

    'Working with areas that proactively support the reforms' is also as close to a direct lie as you get in government - they've all been told what is coming, and told in no uncertain terms they have to have mayoral arrangements even if they don't want them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    DavidL said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Much ado about nothing isn't it? 10 years ago, facts are very unclear, sums involved trivial. Slightly underwhelming but not career ending unless Starmer is irritated by her anyway.
    Who among us hasn't made false accusations to the police for personal gain?
    27% of UK adults, 12.5m of us, have a criminal record.
    That's astonishing, when you consider how many criminals will never get a criminal record.

    I expect the PB rate to be at least 50%.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857

    Czech billionaire closes in on deal to buy Royal Mail

    SKS's Czech mate or 5D chess game!

    Is anyone offering odds on maintaining the daily delivery to all addresses in the medium term?

    I would trust no agreement that isn't written into an Act of Parliament and also has provision for future contingencies like loading it with debt and doing a Thames Water.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?
    Yes.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,984

    stodge said:

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Offering some thought to the above - you "could" have a single national refuse collection contract overseen by OFCRAP or something similar. Every landfill or civic amenity site, every refuse disposal vehicle and all the staff would be transferred to the new provider who would function as the National Refuse Collection Authority.

    The NCRA would provide the same level of service across the whole country and every property would have no more than two bins - one for the general refuse and one for everythign which can be recycled. It would provide extra bins for commercial refuse. Via a sensor in the bin, each household could decide if it wanted a weekly, fortnightly or monthly rubbish collection and would be charged accordingly.

    Feasible? Perhaps - not sure of the costs or viability but we'd have a more homogenous service which should be the same in Guildford, Gosport or Gateshead.
    Are large providers more efficient than small?

    I know the 'economies of scale' argument, but aren't they stereotypically inflexible, with reduced local influence and no need to adapt?

    Suppose I'm naturally resistant to big consolidations. Can't look past monopolies being a poor option even in the public sector. Would favour local providers alla Preston. At least the money stays local.
    Of course - I was responding to @BartholomewRoberts and his half-witted comment about abolishing all local Government.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?
    Yes.

    Is it not a simple Scottish cake made with flour, buttercream icing, pig's blood, lamb entrails and strawberry jam?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012
    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?
    Yes.

    Is it not a simple Scottish cake made with flour, buttercream icing, pig's blood, lamb entrails and strawberry jam?
    Nope.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694
    algarkirk said:

    Czech billionaire closes in on deal to buy Royal Mail

    SKS's Czech mate or 5D chess game!

    Is anyone offering odds on maintaining the daily delivery to all addresses in the medium term?

    I would trust no agreement that isn't written into an Act of Parliament and also has provision for future contingencies like loading it with debt and doing a Thames Water.
    Personally I’m appalled at yet another State-owned institution being privatised.
    And, worse, being sold to someone who doesn’t appear to be a British citizen.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Much ado about nothing isn't it? 10 years ago, facts are very unclear, sums involved trivial. Slightly underwhelming but not career ending unless Starmer is irritated by her anyway.
    Who among us hasn't made false accusations to the police for personal gain?
    27% of UK adults, 12.5m of us, have a criminal record.
    That's astonishing, when you consider how many criminals will never get a criminal record.

    I expect the PB rate to be at least 50%.
    Yeah, it felt so wrong when I first heard I assumed some kind of error or including points for driving offences but seems to be correct. I guess people don't mention it if it applies to them!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?
    I thought it was something unappetising, but turns out I was recalling a Discworld footnote about a 'Clooty Dumpling'

    Not to be confused with the Scottish Clootie Dumpling, which is a kind of suet padding full of fruit. The Ankh-Morpork version sits on the tongue like finest meringue, and on the stomach like a concrete bowling ball.
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?
    No, just a lost soul from the barbarian lands beyond the walls. Rich fruit pudding, boiled in a cloth (cf. Eng. 'clout') for 3 hours to get the correct glutinous coating. Though if one is in a hurry and can bear to miss the chewy coat, nuking it in a bowl in a microwave is also possible.

    https://bakingwithgranny.co.uk/recipe/clootie-dumpling/

    Edit: used to be our family tradition on Christmas day, with sherry trifle as an alternative/extra.

    Edit: haven't tried the recipe linked - just that it gives a good idea of the principle. Time of year to be planning one, too.
    I think I've had a version of that without the suet.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    As if by magic, an overhaul of Local Government funding appears:

    Council funding to be overhauled to deliver better outcomes

    Funding reform kickstarted to fix the foundations of local government and better use taxpayer cash

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/council-funding-to-be-overhauled-to-deliver-better-outcomes

    For a Govt press release, that subtitle is a bit agricultural.

    My prediction: Proportional Property Tax
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143

    Well Labour is certainly doing stuff.

    Yes it is.

    1.Abolishing WFA on everyone not in receipt of WFA

    2.Selling off infrastructure to Blackrock and other donors

    3.Increasing private health involvement in the NHS (please note donors have huge interests)

    4.Setting up a massive energy PFI heads the taxpayer takes all the risk tails the taxpayer loses whilst the private sector takes all the upside called GB Energy.

    5.Enabling Genocide without batting an eyelid.

    Of course its not doing stuff like taking children out of poverty or taxing those with huge wealth *

    *Its against its donors interests so why would it

    Who knew the centuries long crisis in the middle east could be resolved by Keir batting an eyelid. Shame on him for not doing so.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    Are you stalking me, TSE ?
    I made just that comparison a couple of days ago. 😊
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,984
    eek said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Local Government reorganisation - another idea whose time has apparently come. It's worth noting at this stage there's no sense of compulsion and if you look at the political composition of Counties and District/Borough Councils the 2021 elections (which left 17 of the 21 County Councils in majority Conservative control) were followed by District and Borough cycles in 2022, 2023 and 2024 which saw the Conservatives ousted from dozens of second tier Councils.

    In Surrey, for example, the Conservatives still control the County but have been driven out of most District and Borough Councils within the county and the relationship between County and District/Borough is more like that of the USA and USSR in late October 1962.

    The County thinks it should run everything - the Districts and Boroughs want two or three smaller Unitaries.

    If no one wants to re-organise will they be forced to? Time will tell.

    As for the mechanics, if you create a single County authority, it would have to take on a range of functions with which the County currently isn't involved such as refuse collection, council tax administration and crematoria. Replacing 11 Council Tax collection systems with just one sounds like a big saving but I'm sceptical.

    Going to 2-3 Unitaries from a County plus 11 Districts and Boroughs will mean replicating or triplicating the social care, property, legal, financial, procurement and HR systems as well as re-designing all the contracts.

    There may be savings to be had in the medium or longer term but a lost of initial transitional costs.

    It’s perfectly possible that a lot of those internal systems may have already been merged. Darlington and Stockton’s finance /HR has been merged for 20+ years. In Buckinghamshire they merged planning well before the councils themselves merged
    To a point and some back office functions have been merged across some authorities and some senior posts are shared between authorities covering key posts such as the Caldicott Guardian, Section 151 Monitoring Officer etc.

    However, each authority remains sovereign and a separate legal entity so the potential savings haven't been fully realised as there is still multiple tiers of oversight.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    It has been known to happen.

    Though is also a convenient out.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    The table they have Baxtered (or whatever) would be completely hilarious. Either Labour and Tory form an alliance or it's more or less impossible to form a government without both Reform and the LDs.
  • MattW said:
    An integrated national transport policy was a Yes Minister plot. Three short clips:-

    Spells trouble
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDsSMi4zclo

    PM's constituency
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOIs9wCuf-0

    Leak inquiry
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA1VTG3Z23U
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    stodge said:

    algarkirk said:

    Just abolish local councils would be my preference.

    Zero tiers rather than 1, 2 or 3.

    10 Downing Street to organise the bin collection rota?
    Just put it out to tender.

    Why do politicians need to be involved?
    Offering some thought to the above - you "could" have a single national refuse collection contract overseen by OFCRAP or something similar. Every landfill or civic amenity site, every refuse disposal vehicle and all the staff would be transferred to the new provider who would function as the National Refuse Collection Authority.

    The NCRA would provide the same level of service across the whole country and every property would have no more than two bins - one for the general refuse and one for everythign which can be recycled. It would provide extra bins for commercial refuse. Via a sensor in the bin, each household could decide if it wanted a weekly, fortnightly or monthly rubbish collection and would be charged accordingly.

    Feasible? Perhaps - not sure of the costs or viability but we'd have a more homogenous service which should be the same in Guildford, Gosport or Gateshead.
    Are large providers more efficient than small?

    I know the 'economies of scale' argument, but aren't they stereotypically inflexible, with reduced local influence and no need to adapt?

    Suppose I'm naturally resistant to big consolidations. Can't look past monopolies being a poor option even in the public sector. Would favour local providers alla Preston. At least the money stays local.
    To my mind unitaries are still at a size where they can be sufficiently local, especially through arrangements like area committees for very discrete matters, whereas districts and counties just overcomplicate things.

    Not sure they could usefully be much larger however, and if they had abolished county councils and empowered the former districts more instead that might have been a reasonable alternative. It's the layering that's an issue.

    (Of course people have also been arguing about what role, if any, parishes - or at least larger ones - should play since they were created in the 1890s, but that is too big a can of worms).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    WOW

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh admits pleading guilty to offence in connection with misleading police in 2014

    https://news.sky.com/story/transport-secretary-louise-haigh-admits-pleading-guilty-to-offence-in-connection-with-misleading-police-in-2014-13262362

    Ghastly woman, she is blaming her solicitor for giving her duff advice.
    Was it you?
    I never give out duff advice, my advice is flawless.
    Now you've got me thinking about clootie dumpling.

    *hungry*
    Am I an utter savage for not knowing what a clootie dumpling is?
    No, just a lost soul from the barbarian lands beyond the walls. Rich fruit pudding, boiled in a cloth (cf. Eng. 'clout') for 3 hours to get the correct glutinous coating. Though if one is in a hurry and can bear to miss the chewy coat, nuking it in a bowl in a microwave is also possible.

    https://bakingwithgranny.co.uk/recipe/clootie-dumpling/

    Edit: used to be our family tradition on Christmas day, with sherry trifle as an alternative/extra.

    Edit: haven't tried the recipe linked - just that it gives a good idea of the principle. Time of year to be planning one, too.
    It is also quite delicious fried (showing I am a true Scot) as part of a breakfast. The bard may have described Haggis as the great chieftain o' the pudding race but I would happily make the case for a clootie dumpling.
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 108
    Sounds better than the system that has been left in Wales where the unitary councils are too small for purpose. 22 councils for 3 million people is absurd.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143
    algarkirk said:

    The table they have Baxtered (or whatever) would be completely hilarious. Either Labour and Tory form an alliance or it's more or less impossible to form a government without both Reform and the LDs.
    I wonder if anything may possibly change before 2028?
This discussion has been closed.