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This indicates a very low turnout general election in the future – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,174
edited November 22 in General
This indicates a very low turnout general election in the future – politicalbetting.com

NEW from @IpsosUK: Starmer preferred as PM to Badenoch by 30% to 19%.But 38% prefer neither or think it makes no difference.More here https://t.co/EKi7YYc6fD pic.twitter.com/A04vOd0wmb

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Comments

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,493
    edited November 22
    First

    Like Englands win on sunday will be (of the autumn)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,314
    Third Way.
  • It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,445

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    Farage will be 64 come the next election and will have spent most of his time in America sucking up to Trump.

    Reform's problem, and it is a big problem, is that they remain less a political party than an ego trip.

    Can they replace him? If they can't, and before the next election at that, they could easily die away again as UKIP have.

    Of course, they might potentially die away to be replaced with something even worse, but that's a different problem.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,760

    Roger said:

    Rachel Reeves’s real banking roles revealed after claim she was an economist

    Sources have told the i that rather than being an economist, she worked in customer relations and mortgages.

    However, a source close to Ms Reeves explained to i the change was as a result of a one of her staff incorrectly listing the job description on the business networking site.

    https://inews.co.uk/news/rachel-reeves-banking-roles-revealed-cv-3390856

    Embellishing her CV has failed to get me particularly excited, but this...liar, liar, pants on fire.....why is a lacky doing your LinkedIn profile...and you never checked what they put on it..... Come on man.....

    Her role was variously described as an 'analyst' and an 'economist' in earlier profiles:

    Guardian 2011:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/oct/23/rachel-reeves-new-era-labour

    "I've got two economics degrees," she says, through gritted teeth. She has also had stints at the Bank of England, the British Embassy in Washington and as an analyst at HBOS...

    Unlike Ed Balls, Reeves is untainted by New Labour's love affair with light-touch City regulation (her career at HBOS was based in its retail division up in Yorkshire, not among the high-rollers in the capital).


    Telegraph 2012:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/9014203/Rachel-Reeves-the-chess-expert-who-may-end-up-as-queen-of-Labour.html

    A junior chess champion from a relatively humble background, she spent 10 years as an economist for the Bank of England, HBOS and at the British embassy in Washington before entering Parliament.
    Speaking as someone who has worked as an economist my entire professional life, I find this whole discussion somewhat pointless. Reeves has a bachelor's and masters degree in economics. She worked in a role entitled economist at the BOE (I have never met her myself but I know people who worked with her at the BOE and consider her a talented economist). At HBOS she worked in some role that, it seems, may not have had the job title "economist". But she may well have drawn on her economics training in the job and considered it an "economics job". Referring to herself as an economist across both roles therefore doesn't seem a particularly egregious crime. It's not as if being an economist is such an exalted position in a financial institution - if only it was!
    Of all the feeble attempts to discredit a seemingly decent person this is one of the most poorly directed. It has nothing to do with the way she carries out her job nor the way she became the first female chancellor.

    There was an ex Tory MP who used to work with her who waxed lyrical about her abilities. I'd like to think this witch hunt was sexism but I don't think it is. It's just some very bitter people kicking out uncontrollably at anything that seems vulnerable
    You believe these things because you are singularly unable to criticise anyone who is in the Labour Party because you are of very small brain. Reeves is not even slightly innocent in this. The Labour Party was quite right in calling out Boris Johnson for his dishonesty. It is a shame that they, and their tribalist supporters, do not uphold the principles of honesty when it applies to them. Oh, no, they are except, in the same way as they are OK to take lavish gifts.

    Hypocrites.
    Has Reeves ever been fired for lying to her boss like Johnson was?
    Allegedly she was forced to resign for lying about having doctor's appointments when she was actually doing Labour party business on the side.
    Go back to bed. Get some rest.
    Well it is dark already...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,869
    I think it's far too early to be making these predictions, especially when it comes to Kemi. She's just too much of an unknown quantity for voters.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,314
    I'm interested to see that the Black Belt Barrister is promoting the Free Speech Union. I'm not strongly opposed to the latter, and they have raised some important questions and make some over self-important setups pay attention, but Toby Young doesn't half adopt some idiosyncratic positions.

    Which is imo becoming a habit of BBB.

    This afternoon he's exploring a potential request for Elon Musk to testify to a Select Committee in the context of the extradition treaty, and whether Musk would be arrested under terrorism law at the border and required to furnish all his passwords on pain of prison. Musk is doing his "bit of a tit" thing and flapping about he will summon British MPs to the USA to something something, all in response to a tweet by a strange far right commentator called Ian Miles Cheong.

    BBB is soon going to mean Binkety-Bankety-Bonkers.

    Ref:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHv8SMnrb6w
  • It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    I think the problem for Reform is that, a bit like the Lib Dems at times, they are winning as 'we are not like them'. The Lib Dems imploded after the coalition because they were shown to be just like the rest i.e. being in power means you have to compromise. Governing is to choose and all that. I have no idea what Reform stand for, other than a strong suspicion its no more immigration, low taxes and England winning at sport. Being a protest vote is ok until you win.
    Talking of which, look at the Glasgow results yesterday.

    Drumchapel & Anniesland (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 34.3% (-3.8)
    🎗️ SNP: 26.3% (-11.6)
    ➡️ RFM: 12.8% (New)
    🙋 IND: 9.4% (+4.2)
    🌍 GRN: 8.3% (+2.3)
    🌳 CON: 5.8% (-3.7)
    🔶 LDM: 2.9% (+1.3)

    Labour HOLD - Elected Stage 7.
    Changes w/ 2022.

    Maryhill (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 35.9% (+1.9)
    🎗️ SNP: 29.2% (-12.9)
    ➡️ RFM: 12.7% (New)
    🌍 GRN: 12.1% (-0.2)
    🔷 ALBA: 4.2% (New)
    🌳 CON: 3.2% (-5.0)
    🔶 LDM: 2.7% (+0.3)

    North East (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 34.3% (-9.7)
    🎗️ SNP: 32.2% (-10.4)
    ➡️ RFM: 18.3% (New)
    🌳 CON: 5.4% (-3.3)
    🌍 GRN: 4.2% (+1.2)
    🧑‍🔧 TUSC: 3.7% (+2.5)
    🔶 LDM: 2.0% (New)

    Labour HOLD - Elected Stage 7.
    Changes w/ 2022.

    Clearly there are lots of flows and counterflows. But those figures only really make sense if there's a hefty SNP to Reform shift.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,417

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    I think the problem for Reform is that, a bit like the Lib Dems at times, they are winning as 'we are not like them'. The Lib Dems imploded after the coalition because they were shown to be just like the rest i.e. being in power means you have to compromise. Governing is to choose and all that. I have no idea what Reform stand for, other than a strong suspicion its no more immigration, low taxes and England winning at sport. Being a protest vote is ok until you win.
    Talking of which, look at the Glasgow results yesterday.

    Drumchapel & Anniesland (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 34.3% (-3.8)
    🎗️ SNP: 26.3% (-11.6)
    ➡️ RFM: 12.8% (New)
    🙋 IND: 9.4% (+4.2)
    🌍 GRN: 8.3% (+2.3)
    🌳 CON: 5.8% (-3.7)
    🔶 LDM: 2.9% (+1.3)

    Labour HOLD - Elected Stage 7.
    Changes w/ 2022.

    Maryhill (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 35.9% (+1.9)
    🎗️ SNP: 29.2% (-12.9)
    ➡️ RFM: 12.7% (New)
    🌍 GRN: 12.1% (-0.2)
    🔷 ALBA: 4.2% (New)
    🌳 CON: 3.2% (-5.0)
    🔶 LDM: 2.7% (+0.3)

    North East (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 34.3% (-9.7)
    🎗️ SNP: 32.2% (-10.4)
    ➡️ RFM: 18.3% (New)
    🌳 CON: 5.4% (-3.3)
    🌍 GRN: 4.2% (+1.2)
    🧑‍🔧 TUSC: 3.7% (+2.5)
    🔶 LDM: 2.0% (New)

    Labour HOLD - Elected Stage 7.
    Changes w/ 2022.

    Clearly there are lots of flows and counterflows. But those figures only really make sense if there's a hefty SNP to Reform shift.
    Given that these are (I suspect) safe Labour seats - I would agree that Reform are the new protest vote even in Scotland.

    Which will be a problem for the SNP given how damaged they currently are and the time left before the next election.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,926

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    I think the problem for Reform is that, a bit like the Lib Dems at times, they are winning as 'we are not like them'. The Lib Dems imploded after the coalition because they were shown to be just like the rest i.e. being in power means you have to compromise. Governing is to choose and all that. I have no idea what Reform stand for, other than a strong suspicion its no more immigration, low taxes and England winning at sport. Being a protest vote is ok until you win.
    Talking of which, look at the Glasgow results yesterday.

    Drumchapel & Anniesland (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 34.3% (-3.8)
    🎗️ SNP: 26.3% (-11.6)
    ➡️ RFM: 12.8% (New)
    🙋 IND: 9.4% (+4.2)
    🌍 GRN: 8.3% (+2.3)
    🌳 CON: 5.8% (-3.7)
    🔶 LDM: 2.9% (+1.3)

    Labour HOLD - Elected Stage 7.
    Changes w/ 2022.

    Maryhill (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 35.9% (+1.9)
    🎗️ SNP: 29.2% (-12.9)
    ➡️ RFM: 12.7% (New)
    🌍 GRN: 12.1% (-0.2)
    🔷 ALBA: 4.2% (New)
    🌳 CON: 3.2% (-5.0)
    🔶 LDM: 2.7% (+0.3)

    North East (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 34.3% (-9.7)
    🎗️ SNP: 32.2% (-10.4)
    ➡️ RFM: 18.3% (New)
    🌳 CON: 5.4% (-3.3)
    🌍 GRN: 4.2% (+1.2)
    🧑‍🔧 TUSC: 3.7% (+2.5)
    🔶 LDM: 2.0% (New)

    Labour HOLD - Elected Stage 7.
    Changes w/ 2022.

    Clearly there are lots of flows and counterflows. But those figures only really make sense if there's a hefty SNP to Reform shift.
    Or the SNP voters stay home and the Reform voters come out to play. Poor turnout plus quite a drop in the Cons vote, which suggests that to some extent.

  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751
    ydoethur said:

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    Farage will be 64 come the next election and will have spent most of his time in America sucking up to Trump.

    Reform's problem, and it is a big problem, is that they remain less a political party than an ego trip.

    Can they replace him? If they can't, and before the next election at that, they could easily die away again as UKIP have.

    Of course, they might potentially die away to be replaced with something even worse, but that's a different problem.
    UKIP died away because they seemed to lack relevance. But it didn't happen until 2017 - almost a year after the Brexit vote, when the Tories ate their vote share (and Labour, to some extent). But Nuttall wasn't Farage, and his successors even less so. However, UKIP 2.0, or the Brexit Party (same people, same concept, different brand), still found plenty of traction come 2019 when public frustration was there. Did that necessarily need Farage? Reform suggests not: that Farage was helpful to Reform pre-2024 but under Tice, Reform were already heading back into lower 'third-party' status, with support shares sitting alongside the Greens, for example. They wouldn't have won five seats without Farage but they'd have been a meaningful player in a way they weren't in 2021.

    However, Farage remains their star and he's aging. He probably has one more general election in him and they don't yet have a successor who can fill his brown-collared coat. That said, with no charisma on offer elsewhere, Reform will remain in the mix. There'll continue to be much to complain about and 'make it all stop' will remain a potent cry, however ineffective as a solution.
  • It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    No one is (yet) selling what might work -

    1) An attempt to balance regulation/duties with the cost of regulation/duties vs the goals of the regulation/duties.
    2) A sensible, steady and continuous reform of the public sector to improve productivity. Based around investment in technology and process reform, using the best examples of this round the world.
    3) If the government is going to invest in technology (pump priming) it needs to learn how to invest on a small scale across a range of technologies. Not bet on winners.
    4) If the government is going to subsidise outcomes, the subsidy needs to be on the outcome. Not upfront money that often vaporises. So if you want vehicle battery production, say, offer a subsidy per watt/hour of mobile storage (not even betting on batteries exclusively) actually delivered in a vehicle. Scaled to the UK content of the storage.
    5) Tackle the pyramids of contracting and outsourcing that make controlling public projects so very difficult and guarantee expense.
    I see this all the time in the private sector - the truth is politically untenable so go and sell a fantasy.

    As a country we are pretty sick. We stopped investing - in skills, infrastructure or production capacity. We've got jobs which don't pay the bills AND need public subsidy. We've got a public sector which burns every greater amount of cash to suffer every deeper cuts in front line provision due to a chronic lack of cash.

    You all know my position on much of this - we need to free capitalism so that we can return to borrow / invest / receive ROI / reinvest. Our problem is that we are Moonbase Alpha - blown adrift of the EU (sabotage), left to wander about in open space as the world seeks stability through alliances and blocks. Why invest on Moonbase Britain when there are better connected better invested economies out there? Ones who know their place in the world and where they will be in 10 years?

    Starmer's opportunity was to do a Trump: Big Mandate, Big Ideas (the 5 missions), go big and bold out of the blocks before the opposition have time to do anything other than gibber. And (to quote Alastair Campbell) he's fucked it. We need to do an alignment deal with the EEA and quickly, another with NATO to lead the European-led block investing in defence, and a settlement with the various public sector rows so that cash is conditional on reform (deal now or be broken tomorrow). Do the big framework mission stuff now and then fit the retail politics into that.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,249
    ydoethur said:

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    Farage will be 64 come the next election and will have spent most of his time in America sucking up to Trump.

    Reform's problem, and it is a big problem, is that they remain less a political party than an ego trip.

    Can they replace him? If they can't, and before the next election at that, they could easily die away again as UKIP have.

    Of course, they might potentially die away to be replaced with something even worse, but that's a different problem.
    Like all political parties built around a charismatic leader, there is the question of apres moi...?

    An issue that is especially true for Reform, as it is literally owned by Farage. And all the booze and fags will not have been kind to his longevity.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    edited November 22
    eek said:

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    I think the problem for Reform is that, a bit like the Lib Dems at times, they are winning as 'we are not like them'. The Lib Dems imploded after the coalition because they were shown to be just like the rest i.e. being in power means you have to compromise. Governing is to choose and all that. I have no idea what Reform stand for, other than a strong suspicion its no more immigration, low taxes and England winning at sport. Being a protest vote is ok until you win.
    Talking of which, look at the Glasgow results yesterday.

    Drumchapel & Anniesland (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 34.3% (-3.8)
    🎗️ SNP: 26.3% (-11.6)
    ➡️ RFM: 12.8% (New)
    🙋 IND: 9.4% (+4.2)
    🌍 GRN: 8.3% (+2.3)
    🌳 CON: 5.8% (-3.7)
    🔶 LDM: 2.9% (+1.3)

    Labour HOLD - Elected Stage 7.
    Changes w/ 2022.

    Maryhill (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 35.9% (+1.9)
    🎗️ SNP: 29.2% (-12.9)
    ➡️ RFM: 12.7% (New)
    🌍 GRN: 12.1% (-0.2)
    🔷 ALBA: 4.2% (New)
    🌳 CON: 3.2% (-5.0)
    🔶 LDM: 2.7% (+0.3)

    North East (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 34.3% (-9.7)
    🎗️ SNP: 32.2% (-10.4)
    ➡️ RFM: 18.3% (New)
    🌳 CON: 5.4% (-3.3)
    🌍 GRN: 4.2% (+1.2)
    🧑‍🔧 TUSC: 3.7% (+2.5)
    🔶 LDM: 2.0% (New)

    Labour HOLD - Elected Stage 7.
    Changes w/ 2022.

    Clearly there are lots of flows and counterflows. But those figures only really make sense if there's a hefty SNP to Reform shift.
    Given that these are (I suspect) safe Labour seats - I would agree that Reform are the new protest vote even in Scotland.

    Which will be a problem for the SNP given how damaged they currently are and the time left before the next election.
    About half of the Reform vote probably came from the fall in Con vote from 10.2% of a 38% turnout in 2022.

    Maryhill apart, there is a very modest swing from SNP->Slab, from the 34%-22& shares in 2022.

    EDIT: on a 12% -19% turnout(!) most of of it could be former Tory.
  • rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    Farage will be 64 come the next election and will have spent most of his time in America sucking up to Trump.

    Reform's problem, and it is a big problem, is that they remain less a political party than an ego trip.

    Can they replace him? If they can't, and before the next election at that, they could easily die away again as UKIP have.

    Of course, they might potentially die away to be replaced with something even worse, but that's a different problem.
    Like all political parties built around a charismatic leader, there is the question of apres moi...?

    An issue that is especially true for Reform, as it is literally owned by Farage. And all the booze and fags will not have been kind to his longevity.
    Farage built it as a vehicle for himself. But after the election has been a significant attempt to professionalise and distribute power. They can't be dismissed as a personality cult any more, they are increasingly well planned, well resourced and serious.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,763
    MattW said:

    I'm interested to see that the Black Belt Barrister is promoting the Free Speech Union. I'm not strongly opposed to the latter, and they have raised some important questions and make some over self-important setups pay attention, but Toby Young doesn't half adopt some idiosyncratic positions.

    Which is imo becoming a habit of BBB.

    This afternoon he's exploring a potential request for Elon Musk to testify to a Select Committee in the context of the extradition treaty, and whether Musk would be arrested under terrorism law at the border and required to furnish all his passwords on pain of prison. Musk is doing his "bit of a tit" thing and flapping about he will summon British MPs to the USA to something something, all in response to a tweet by a strange far right commentator called Ian Miles Cheong.

    BBB is soon going to mean Binkety-Bankety-Bonkers.

    Ref:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHv8SMnrb6w

    I was thinking the same thing. BBB used to be an interesting and thoughtful watch; since the GE he seems to be an unthinking critic of anything the government does.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited November 22
    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,249

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The ruble's crashes somewhat against the dollar today. Currently at 1 ruble for 0.0097 United States Dollar.

    I had expected Trump's win to help stabilise it. Never come to me for predictions... ;)

    The euro could end up below parity with the dollar by the time Trump is inaugurated.
    Which entirely offsets the impact of tariffs.
    Which means that Trump is right to say that the exporters will be the ones bearing the cost of the tariff.
    So, the tax on petrol in the UK is actually a tax on Saudi oil producers? They pay it?
    That's not comparable to the effect of tariffs on goods imports to the US.

    If the dollar goes up to a level that offsets the tariffs, it means that the price to the importer can stay the same while the US government also brings in revenue.

    A $100 value item becomes $91 plus $9 in tariffs with the tariff cost being absorbed by the exporter. The exporters gets fewer dollars for their goods but the dollars are worth more.
    So, what you're saying is that it's free money? The exporter gets the same as before, because dollars are worth more, and the government gets revenue.

    Truly a magic money tree!

    More seriously, the issue is that trade imbalances are caused by differences in household savings rates and consequent cross border capital flows. The more the US government attempts to shake up the international order, the more the US dollar becomes the safe haven currency, and the more money flows into the US.

    This in turn causes trade deficits.

    Basically, if you want to get rid of the US trade deficit, then you need to stop the US sucking up the world's savings. (And to do that, you need to make the US less attractive to invest in; or other places more attractive. One way to make the US less attractive is for US citizens to start doing the saving, driving down returns for foreigners.)

    FWIW, a 10% across the board tariff would have a (smally) positive impact on the US trade deficit, because it would effectively act as a sales tax, and would therefore depress US consumption.

    The real trick, though, is to get Germany and China to consume more. The problem is that the more the US government saber rattles, the more cautious and conservative people outside the US get, and the more they reduce spending. Which in turn leads to a stronger US dollar, and a bigger US trade deficit.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,744
    edited November 22
    Carnyx said:

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    I think the problem for Reform is that, a bit like the Lib Dems at times, they are winning as 'we are not like them'. The Lib Dems imploded after the coalition because they were shown to be just like the rest i.e. being in power means you have to compromise. Governing is to choose and all that. I have no idea what Reform stand for, other than a strong suspicion its no more immigration, low taxes and England winning at sport. Being a protest vote is ok until you win.
    Talking of which, look at the Glasgow results yesterday.

    Drumchapel & Anniesland (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 34.3% (-3.8)
    🎗️ SNP: 26.3% (-11.6)
    ➡️ RFM: 12.8% (New)
    🙋 IND: 9.4% (+4.2)
    🌍 GRN: 8.3% (+2.3)
    🌳 CON: 5.8% (-3.7)
    🔶 LDM: 2.9% (+1.3)

    Labour HOLD - Elected Stage 7.
    Changes w/ 2022.

    Maryhill (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 35.9% (+1.9)
    🎗️ SNP: 29.2% (-12.9)
    ➡️ RFM: 12.7% (New)
    🌍 GRN: 12.1% (-0.2)
    🔷 ALBA: 4.2% (New)
    🌳 CON: 3.2% (-5.0)
    🔶 LDM: 2.7% (+0.3)

    North East (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 34.3% (-9.7)
    🎗️ SNP: 32.2% (-10.4)
    ➡️ RFM: 18.3% (New)
    🌳 CON: 5.4% (-3.3)
    🌍 GRN: 4.2% (+1.2)
    🧑‍🔧 TUSC: 3.7% (+2.5)
    🔶 LDM: 2.0% (New)

    Labour HOLD - Elected Stage 7.
    Changes w/ 2022.

    Clearly there are lots of flows and counterflows. But those figures only really make sense if there's a hefty SNP to Reform shift.
    Or the SNP voters stay home and the Reform voters come out to play. Poor turnout plus quite a drop in the Cons vote, which suggests that to some extent.

    It's difficult to infer anything from stuff like this, particularly when you have a new party.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,887

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    Farage will be 64 come the next election and will have spent most of his time in America sucking up to Trump.

    Reform's problem, and it is a big problem, is that they remain less a political party than an ego trip.

    Can they replace him? If they can't, and before the next election at that, they could easily die away again as UKIP have.

    Of course, they might potentially die away to be replaced with something even worse, but that's a different problem.
    Like all political parties built around a charismatic leader, there is the question of apres moi...?

    An issue that is especially true for Reform, as it is literally owned by Farage. And all the booze and fags will not have been kind to his longevity.
    Farage built it as a vehicle for himself. But after the election has been a significant attempt to professionalise and distribute power. They can't be dismissed as a personality cult any more, they are increasingly well planned, well resourced and serious.
    As much maga money as they want will be available.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,419
    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    Yes, the EU is in the toilet.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,143

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift...

    Oh I think that's certain at this point. It's not just the end of neoliberalism/Sixth Party System/"politics as usual" it's that the volatility isn't settling down. I would have bet large sums in January 2020 on Boris owning the 2020s, but he didn't. Truss had a well-thought-out approach which just didn't work. Sunak was reflexive and spasmodic. Starmer is...what now? Give 22billion to Ed Miliband so he can play God Of All Greens? Ugh. I don't know where all this is going to settle, I'll tell you that.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,887
    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    Yes, that advertising execs are overpaid.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,625
    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    Does it tell us anything about Brexit, Rog?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,625
    carnforth said:

    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    Does it tell us anything about Brexit, Rog?


    Also, are you sure about the 15 years part?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,863

    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    Yes, that advertising execs are overpaid.
    Though the pound has rather tumbled against the dollar in the last few months. Sounds like Euro tanking faster.
    Labour may be trying its best to trash the UK economy, but we're still looking brighter than Western Europe.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,249

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    No one is (yet) selling what might work -

    1) An attempt to balance regulation/duties with the cost of regulation/duties vs the goals of the regulation/duties.
    2) A sensible, steady and continuous reform of the public sector to improve productivity. Based around investment in technology and process reform, using the best examples of this round the world.
    3) If the government is going to invest in technology (pump priming) it needs to learn how to invest on a small scale across a range of technologies. Not bet on winners.
    4) If the government is going to subsidise outcomes, the subsidy needs to be on the outcome. Not upfront money that often vaporises. So if you want vehicle battery production, say, offer a subsidy per watt/hour of mobile storage (not even betting on batteries exclusively) actually delivered in a vehicle. Scaled to the UK content of the storage.
    5) Tackle the pyramids of contracting and outsourcing that make controlling public projects so very difficult and guarantee expense.
    As an aside, (4) is pretty much exactly what the government did with recycling, and it's gone from something that was an absolute and total waste of money, to one where it is almost (but not quite) economically justifiable.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,263
    The Trump win helps Reform. It gives a boost to the sort of opinions and attitudes that drive the populist right. It also gives tips on what works, eg charismatic leader, lurid rhetoric, parochial nationalism, weaponisation of social media. If our economy struggles over the next few years Reform are well placed to profit. Farage is very short at 6 for Next PM but I'm not about to lay it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,249

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    Farage will be 64 come the next election and will have spent most of his time in America sucking up to Trump.

    Reform's problem, and it is a big problem, is that they remain less a political party than an ego trip.

    Can they replace him? If they can't, and before the next election at that, they could easily die away again as UKIP have.

    Of course, they might potentially die away to be replaced with something even worse, but that's a different problem.
    Like all political parties built around a charismatic leader, there is the question of apres moi...?

    An issue that is especially true for Reform, as it is literally owned by Farage. And all the booze and fags will not have been kind to his longevity.
    Farage built it as a vehicle for himself. But after the election has been a significant attempt to professionalise and distribute power. They can't be dismissed as a personality cult any more, they are increasingly well planned, well resourced and serious.
    Do you think they'll make a significant impact at the locals next year?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,863
    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    You might have perhaps read about just how stuffed Germany is?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,898

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    No one is (yet) selling what might work -

    1) An attempt to balance regulation/duties with the cost of regulation/duties vs the goals of the regulation/duties.
    2) A sensible, steady and continuous reform of the public sector to improve productivity. Based around investment in technology and process reform, using the best examples of this round the world.
    3) If the government is going to invest in technology (pump priming) it needs to learn how to invest on a small scale across a range of technologies. Not bet on winners.
    4) If the government is going to subsidise outcomes, the subsidy needs to be on the outcome. Not upfront money that often vaporises. So if you want vehicle battery production, say, offer a subsidy per watt/hour of mobile storage (not even betting on batteries exclusively) actually delivered in a vehicle. Scaled to the UK content of the storage.
    5) Tackle the pyramids of contracting and outsourcing that make controlling public projects so very difficult and guarantee expense.
    Your first one is particularly important. The model we have adopted in this country has been to try and regulate problems out of existence. It doesn't work of course. Then we try to dump the costs of the regulation on the industry being regulated. But this doesn't really work either in 2 distinct ways. Firstly, the cost of employing public sector employees is significantly more than their salaries given their pension rights and other entitlements. Secondly, the costs that are passed on make the services that are being regulated incredibly expensive, both because we demand completely absurd levels of staffing, qualifications, business plans, care plans, education plans for toddlers, etc etc and because they have to pay significant sums towards their regulation.

    The consequence of this model is that we have some of the most expensive child care in the world. We make it impossible to run a nursing home profitably at a rate that is even close to what the Councils can afford to pay. We significantly add to the cost of our energy supplies and the provision of financial services.

    We simply cannot afford this anymore. We need to deregulate and to leave regulators a very pale shadow of their current form intervening in only the most extreme cases. We need to reduce the costs of providing basic services to what we can afford to pay for them. We absolutely need to get out of the mindset of adding yet more layers of regulation every time something goes wrong anywhere.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    Yes, that advertising execs are overpaid.
    LOL! I charge a hell of a lot more than they do!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,419
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    Yes, that advertising execs are overpaid.
    LOL! I charge a hell of a lot more than they do!
    you clearly perform better on the casting couch,
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    carnforth said:

    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    Does it tell us anything about Brexit, Rog?
    I'm not an economist but my thought as AlanB suggests is that the UK is doing well at the moment.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,625

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    Yes, that advertising execs are overpaid.
    LOL! I charge a hell of a lot more than they do!
    you clearly perform better on the casting couch,
    Nominative determinism.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,225
    Does @Malmesbury or anyone else here work for a bank. Would like a word in pm if possible
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,231
    The fact a plurality of voters, 38%, prefer neither Sir Keir nor Badenoch as PM is not great for either. Suggests a hung parliament and good news for Farage whose party is also up on the GE.

    Turnout fell to just 59% in July from 67% in 2019 anyway
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,249
    edited November 22
    Cookie said:

    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    You might have perhaps read about just how stuffed Germany is?
    While Germany has many problems (i.e. it's in recession), it's employment rate is only a smidgen below its all time highs, and it has negligible external liabilities.

    It's issue is that an obsession with behaving like a Swabian housewife has meant that the economy is massively over-dependent on external demand, in particular from the US and China.

    The solution to Germany's problems is pretty simple, and is more or less the inverse of the solutions to the UK and the US's problems: it needs to implement policies that encourage spending and discourage saving. I would start with implementing mortgage interest tax relief myself - that would get house prices moving, increase the wealth effect, and mean German consumers get their credit cards out.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,314

    MattW said:

    I'm interested to see that the Black Belt Barrister is promoting the Free Speech Union. I'm not strongly opposed to the latter, and they have raised some important questions and make some over self-important setups pay attention, but Toby Young doesn't half adopt some idiosyncratic positions.

    Which is imo becoming a habit of BBB.

    This afternoon he's exploring a potential request for Elon Musk to testify to a Select Committee in the context of the extradition treaty, and whether Musk would be arrested under terrorism law at the border and required to furnish all his passwords on pain of prison. Musk is doing his "bit of a tit" thing and flapping about he will summon British MPs to the USA to something something, all in response to a tweet by a strange far right commentator called Ian Miles Cheong.

    BBB is soon going to mean Binkety-Bankety-Bonkers.

    Ref:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHv8SMnrb6w

    I was thinking the same thing. BBB used to be an interesting and thoughtful watch; since the GE he seems to be an unthinking critic of anything the government does.
    He might be reading twitter too much :smile: .

    Aside. On Bluesky. I can confirm that running 2 accounts with the nice "switch between" facility will inevitably lead to posting the wrong thing in the other place :smile: .

    I even managed to switch accounts half way through a thread.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    Does it tell us anything about Brexit, Rog?


    Also, are you sure about the 15 years part?
    I've just got 120. Generally its between 112-118. It could be I've missed a good month. Before 2010 it was sometimes higher
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,869
    Roger said:

    carnforth said:

    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    Does it tell us anything about Brexit, Rog?
    I'm not an economist but my thought as AlanB suggests is that the UK is doing well at the moment.
    No, it's an indicator that UK interest rates are going to be higher for longer than in the EU because Labour have pushed through a highly inflationary budget.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,692
    Leanne Mohamad, who lost the Ilford North MP election to Wes Streeting by 528 votes, has sent a complaint to the Electoral Commission outlining ‘serious irregularities’

    Streeting needs to hope there is not a need for a further election in Ilford North or his political career is over.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,910
    Afternoon all :)

    Interesting to reflect on turnouts as the story of local Council by-elections since July has been derisory turnouts but the core Conservative vote still turning out.

    That vote in and of itself isn't growing but while it's not enough to win elections with 30-40% turnout it is enough when you get down to 15-25% and that's helping the Conservatives in some seats especially when facing the LDs or in other parts of the south.

    In 1998, my recollection nationally was turnout in the low 30s. By contrast, in 2021, Surrey had a turnout of 39% in its election.

    We also have to factor in Reform and anti-incumbency bias and that won't help the Conservatives who are defending majority control of 18 of the 21 County Councils as well as 7 of the 10 former County authorities which are now Unitaries (Cornwall, Wiltshire and Shropshire being examples).
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    Yes, that advertising execs are overpaid.
    LOL! I charge a hell of a lot more than they do!
    you clearly perform better on the casting couch,
    It was the advertising execs who might have got involved in that. Maybe that's why they weren't paid as well
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,263

    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    Yes, the EU is in the toilet.
    After the financial crash and the end of the lax monetary policy brought in to prop things up - plus the shocks of the pandemic and Ukraine - it's no surprise that developed western economies have low growth. We'd be better off accepting this imo and planning accordingly. It does nobody any favours to pretend there's some sort of political remedy for it.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,816
    viewcode said:

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift...

    Oh I think that's certain at this point. It's not just the end of neoliberalism/Sixth Party System/"politics as usual" it's that the volatility isn't settling down. I would have bet large sums in January 2020 on Boris owning the 2020s, but he didn't. Truss had a well-thought-out approach which just didn't work. Sunak was reflexive and spasmodic. Starmer is...what now? Give 22billion to Ed Miliband so he can play God Of All Greens? Ugh. I don't know where all this is going to settle, I'll tell you that.

    Truss had many things but "a well-thought-out approach" wasn't one of them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,182
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Interesting to reflect on turnouts as the story of local Council by-elections since July has been derisory turnouts but the core Conservative vote still turning out.

    That vote in and of itself isn't growing but while it's not enough to win elections with 30-40% turnout it is enough when you get down to 15-25% and that's helping the Conservatives in some seats especially when facing the LDs or in other parts of the south.

    In 1998, my recollection nationally was turnout in the low 30s. By contrast, in 2021, Surrey had a turnout of 39% in its election.

    We also have to factor in Reform and anti-incumbency bias and that won't help the Conservatives who are defending majority control of 18 of the 21 County Councils as well as 7 of the 10 former County authorities which are now Unitaries (Cornwall, Wiltshire and Shropshire being examples).

    It was hovering around 40% in Wiltshire in 2021 as well, I would not be surprised to see it drop a bit. Reform will be absolutely critical in such areas, UKIP were nowhere even if they stood by 2021, and I don't think Reform/Brexit even stood much either, if at all (none in Wiltshire). UKIP got some handfuls of seats in some earlier elections across county councils, but did score plenty of second places, it could be significant if Reform make a real go of it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,263
    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    carnforth said:

    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    Does it tell us anything about Brexit, Rog?
    I'm not an economist but my thought as AlanB suggests is that the UK is doing well at the moment.
    No, it's an indicator that UK interest rates are going to be higher for longer than in the EU because Labour have pushed through a highly inflationary budget.
    That's at least partly why the dollar has gone up since Nov 5th.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,441
    DavidL said:

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    No one is (yet) selling what might work -

    1) An attempt to balance regulation/duties with the cost of regulation/duties vs the goals of the regulation/duties.
    2) A sensible, steady and continuous reform of the public sector to improve productivity. Based around investment in technology and process reform, using the best examples of this round the world.
    3) If the government is going to invest in technology (pump priming) it needs to learn how to invest on a small scale across a range of technologies. Not bet on winners.
    4) If the government is going to subsidise outcomes, the subsidy needs to be on the outcome. Not upfront money that often vaporises. So if you want vehicle battery production, say, offer a subsidy per watt/hour of mobile storage (not even betting on batteries exclusively) actually delivered in a vehicle. Scaled to the UK content of the storage.
    5) Tackle the pyramids of contracting and outsourcing that make controlling public projects so very difficult and guarantee expense.
    Your first one is particularly important. The model we have adopted in this country has been to try and regulate problems out of existence. It doesn't work of course. Then we try to dump the costs of the regulation on the industry being regulated. But this doesn't really work either in 2 distinct ways. Firstly, the cost of employing public sector employees is significantly more than their salaries given their pension rights and other entitlements. Secondly, the costs that are passed on make the services that are being regulated incredibly expensive, both because we demand completely absurd levels of staffing, qualifications, business plans, care plans, education plans for toddlers, etc etc and because they have to pay significant sums towards their regulation.

    The consequence of this model is that we have some of the most expensive child care in the world. We make it impossible to run a nursing home profitably at a rate that is even close to what the Councils can afford to pay. We significantly add to the cost of our energy supplies and the provision of financial services.

    We simply cannot afford this anymore. We need to deregulate and to leave regulators a very pale shadow of their current form intervening in only the most extreme cases. We need to reduce the costs of providing basic services to what we can afford to pay for them. We absolutely need to get out of the mindset of adding yet more layers of regulation every time something goes wrong anywhere.
    The cherry on top is vast swathes of regulation and little useful enforcement.

    A simple example - on the road I live on, many people have done a loft conversion. You are not supposed to raise the roofline above the others. I spent some extra money on getting the conversion I wanted without raising the roof line. The cowboy builders do it and the owners simply ignore the legal consequences.

    A minor example, but it's part of the pattern. The way buildings being torn down before use, because of obviously defective construction. There will be tons (often literally) of paperwork saying that it's all tickety-boo. But there is no use or truth in any of it. Grenfell was documented and signed off as safe.

    We have created an environment where the rule breakers/avoiders have an advantage over the rule followers. Someone who used cladding that wasn't made of firelighters would have had higher costs on the Grenfell job. But would have been underbid.

    So the bad drives out the good.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,182

    Leanne Mohamad, who lost the Ilford North MP election to Wes Streeting by 528 votes, has sent a complaint to the Electoral Commission outlining ‘serious irregularities’

    Streeting needs to hope there is not a need for a further election in Ilford North or his political career is over.

    Taken awhile to send that complaint, I'm curious if there is any kind of time limit on electoral petitions.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,511

    Roger said:

    Rachel Reeves’s real banking roles revealed after claim she was an economist

    Sources have told the i that rather than being an economist, she worked in customer relations and mortgages.

    However, a source close to Ms Reeves explained to i the change was as a result of a one of her staff incorrectly listing the job description on the business networking site.

    https://inews.co.uk/news/rachel-reeves-banking-roles-revealed-cv-3390856

    Embellishing her CV has failed to get me particularly excited, but this...liar, liar, pants on fire.....why is a lacky doing your LinkedIn profile...and you never checked what they put on it..... Come on man.....

    Her role was variously described as an 'analyst' and an 'economist' in earlier profiles:

    Guardian 2011:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/oct/23/rachel-reeves-new-era-labour

    "I've got two economics degrees," she says, through gritted teeth. She has also had stints at the Bank of England, the British Embassy in Washington and as an analyst at HBOS...

    Unlike Ed Balls, Reeves is untainted by New Labour's love affair with light-touch City regulation (her career at HBOS was based in its retail division up in Yorkshire, not among the high-rollers in the capital).


    Telegraph 2012:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/9014203/Rachel-Reeves-the-chess-expert-who-may-end-up-as-queen-of-Labour.html

    A junior chess champion from a relatively humble background, she spent 10 years as an economist for the Bank of England, HBOS and at the British embassy in Washington before entering Parliament.
    Speaking as someone who has worked as an economist my entire professional life, I find this whole discussion somewhat pointless. Reeves has a bachelor's and masters degree in economics. She worked in a role entitled economist at the BOE (I have never met her myself but I know people who worked with her at the BOE and consider her a talented economist). At HBOS she worked in some role that, it seems, may not have had the job title "economist". But she may well have drawn on her economics training in the job and considered it an "economics job". Referring to herself as an economist across both roles therefore doesn't seem a particularly egregious crime. It's not as if being an economist is such an exalted position in a financial institution - if only it was!
    Of all the feeble attempts to discredit a seemingly decent person this is one of the most poorly directed. It has nothing to do with the way she carries out her job nor the way she became the first female chancellor.

    There was an ex Tory MP who used to work with her who waxed lyrical about her abilities. I'd like to think this witch hunt was sexism but I don't think it is. It's just some very bitter people kicking out uncontrollably at anything that seems vulnerable
    You believe these things because you are singularly unable to criticise anyone who is in the Labour Party because you are of very small brain. Reeves is not even slightly innocent in this. The Labour Party was quite right in calling out Boris Johnson for his dishonesty. It is a shame that they, and their tribalist supporters, do not uphold the principles of honesty when it applies to them. Oh, no, they are except, in the same way as they are OK to take lavish gifts.

    Hypocrites.
    Has Reeves ever been fired for lying to her boss like Johnson was?
    Allegedly she was forced to resign for lying about having doctor's appointments when she was actually doing Labour party business on the side.
    Go back to bed. Get some rest.
    Well it is dark already...
    Fucksake. Is it? Dark already?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751
    viewcode said:

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift...

    Oh I think that's certain at this point. It's not just the end of neoliberalism/Sixth Party System/"politics as usual" it's that the volatility isn't settling down. I would have bet large sums in January 2020 on Boris owning the 2020s, but he didn't. Truss had a well-thought-out approach which just didn't work. Sunak was reflexive and spasmodic. Starmer is...what now? Give 22billion to Ed Miliband so he can play God Of All Greens? Ugh. I don't know where all this is going to settle, I'll tell you that.
    Boris always contained the seeds of his own destruction. Usually the seeds of his own resurrection as well.

    Certainly in Jan 2020 it wasn't obvious what the future held for Labour or how the party system would play out but the voter volatility in 2019 combined with the fact that Brexit still wasn't then done should have made any confident prediction about the next ten years unwise. Johnson's character though: that was very well known and its internal contradictions were always going to bring him down at some point. He lies too much, promises too much and delivers too little besides fancy words.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,869
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    carnforth said:

    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    Does it tell us anything about Brexit, Rog?
    I'm not an economist but my thought as AlanB suggests is that the UK is doing well at the moment.
    No, it's an indicator that UK interest rates are going to be higher for longer than in the EU because Labour have pushed through a highly inflationary budget.
    That's at least partly why the dollar has gone up since Nov 5th.
    Yup, US interest rate expectations are now much higher than before because Trump policies are inflationary, tariffs and such.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,182

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    I think the problem for Reform is that, a bit like the Lib Dems at times, they are winning as 'we are not like them'. The Lib Dems imploded after the coalition because they were shown to be just like the rest i.e. being in power means you have to compromise. Governing is to choose and all that. I have no idea what Reform stand for, other than a strong suspicion its no more immigration, low taxes and England winning at sport. Being a protest vote is ok until you win.
    A problem for another day. I doubt they are losing much sleep over the prospect that, once truly a major player in terms of seat numbers, they might find they don't have real solutions.

    It's like start ups that perennially lose money for years on the hope that eventually they will a) be big enough they will make money or (if they are doing the equivalent of selling £10 notes for £5) b) figure out a way to be profitable later.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,182
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Rachel Reeves’s real banking roles revealed after claim she was an economist

    Sources have told the i that rather than being an economist, she worked in customer relations and mortgages.

    However, a source close to Ms Reeves explained to i the change was as a result of a one of her staff incorrectly listing the job description on the business networking site.

    https://inews.co.uk/news/rachel-reeves-banking-roles-revealed-cv-3390856

    Embellishing her CV has failed to get me particularly excited, but this...liar, liar, pants on fire.....why is a lacky doing your LinkedIn profile...and you never checked what they put on it..... Come on man.....

    Her role was variously described as an 'analyst' and an 'economist' in earlier profiles:

    Guardian 2011:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/oct/23/rachel-reeves-new-era-labour

    "I've got two economics degrees," she says, through gritted teeth. She has also had stints at the Bank of England, the British Embassy in Washington and as an analyst at HBOS...

    Unlike Ed Balls, Reeves is untainted by New Labour's love affair with light-touch City regulation (her career at HBOS was based in its retail division up in Yorkshire, not among the high-rollers in the capital).


    Telegraph 2012:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/9014203/Rachel-Reeves-the-chess-expert-who-may-end-up-as-queen-of-Labour.html

    A junior chess champion from a relatively humble background, she spent 10 years as an economist for the Bank of England, HBOS and at the British embassy in Washington before entering Parliament.
    Speaking as someone who has worked as an economist my entire professional life, I find this whole discussion somewhat pointless. Reeves has a bachelor's and masters degree in economics. She worked in a role entitled economist at the BOE (I have never met her myself but I know people who worked with her at the BOE and consider her a talented economist). At HBOS she worked in some role that, it seems, may not have had the job title "economist". But she may well have drawn on her economics training in the job and considered it an "economics job". Referring to herself as an economist across both roles therefore doesn't seem a particularly egregious crime. It's not as if being an economist is such an exalted position in a financial institution - if only it was!
    Of all the feeble attempts to discredit a seemingly decent person this is one of the most poorly directed. It has nothing to do with the way she carries out her job nor the way she became the first female chancellor.

    There was an ex Tory MP who used to work with her who waxed lyrical about her abilities. I'd like to think this witch hunt was sexism but I don't think it is. It's just some very bitter people kicking out uncontrollably at anything that seems vulnerable
    You believe these things because you are singularly unable to criticise anyone who is in the Labour Party because you are of very small brain. Reeves is not even slightly innocent in this. The Labour Party was quite right in calling out Boris Johnson for his dishonesty. It is a shame that they, and their tribalist supporters, do not uphold the principles of honesty when it applies to them. Oh, no, they are except, in the same way as they are OK to take lavish gifts.

    Hypocrites.
    Has Reeves ever been fired for lying to her boss like Johnson was?
    Allegedly she was forced to resign for lying about having doctor's appointments when she was actually doing Labour party business on the side.
    Go back to bed. Get some rest.
    Well it is dark already...
    Fucksake. Is it? Dark already?
    It's nearly 6pm, time for bed soon anyway.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,910
    kle4 said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Interesting to reflect on turnouts as the story of local Council by-elections since July has been derisory turnouts but the core Conservative vote still turning out.

    That vote in and of itself isn't growing but while it's not enough to win elections with 30-40% turnout it is enough when you get down to 15-25% and that's helping the Conservatives in some seats especially when facing the LDs or in other parts of the south.

    In 1998, my recollection nationally was turnout in the low 30s. By contrast, in 2021, Surrey had a turnout of 39% in its election.

    We also have to factor in Reform and anti-incumbency bias and that won't help the Conservatives who are defending majority control of 18 of the 21 County Councils as well as 7 of the 10 former County authorities which are now Unitaries (Cornwall, Wiltshire and Shropshire being examples).

    It was hovering around 40% in Wiltshire in 2021 as well, I would not be surprised to see it drop a bit. Reform will be absolutely critical in such areas, UKIP were nowhere even if they stood by 2021, and I don't think Reform/Brexit even stood much either, if at all (none in Wiltshire). UKIP got some handfuls of seats in some earlier elections across county councils, but did score plenty of second places, it could be significant if Reform make a real go of it.
    Reform are starting to make an impact in local council by-elections with wins in East Kent yesterday and performing respectably in Glasgow.

    What we don't know is how many candidates they will stand in May and where though we can probably be inituitive about this based on the GE results.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,314
    Brains Trust: How do I change my avatar? I've done it before, but can't find the option.

    (I feel a need for a Cat or Little Miss picture.)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,511
    Oooooh. Juicy red on red action


    “Restaurant critic Jay Rayner has accused The Guardian of employing anti-Semites and its editor of lacking the courage to take them on – turning up the heat on the identity crisis gripping the Left-wing news organisation.

    “In a message to friends on Facebook, Mr Rayner, who this week quit the paper’s sister Sunday title The Observer after 28 years, launched an excoriating attack on Katharine Viner, the Guardian’s editor, over her alleged failure to properly address anti-Semitism.”

    Telegraph

    ££
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Allison Pearson making an idiot of herself on Radio 4.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,182
    stodge said:

    kle4 said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Interesting to reflect on turnouts as the story of local Council by-elections since July has been derisory turnouts but the core Conservative vote still turning out.

    That vote in and of itself isn't growing but while it's not enough to win elections with 30-40% turnout it is enough when you get down to 15-25% and that's helping the Conservatives in some seats especially when facing the LDs or in other parts of the south.

    In 1998, my recollection nationally was turnout in the low 30s. By contrast, in 2021, Surrey had a turnout of 39% in its election.

    We also have to factor in Reform and anti-incumbency bias and that won't help the Conservatives who are defending majority control of 18 of the 21 County Councils as well as 7 of the 10 former County authorities which are now Unitaries (Cornwall, Wiltshire and Shropshire being examples).

    It was hovering around 40% in Wiltshire in 2021 as well, I would not be surprised to see it drop a bit. Reform will be absolutely critical in such areas, UKIP were nowhere even if they stood by 2021, and I don't think Reform/Brexit even stood much either, if at all (none in Wiltshire). UKIP got some handfuls of seats in some earlier elections across county councils, but did score plenty of second places, it could be significant if Reform make a real go of it.
    Reform are starting to make an impact in local council by-elections with wins in East Kent yesterday and performing respectably in Glasgow.

    What we don't know is how many candidates they will stand in May and where though we can probably be inituitive about this based on the GE results.
    My gut sense is that if they are even slightly interested they will be able to stand quite a few. It's not uncommon even for the traditional big parties not to stand in every seat on some big councils, and previously Reform did not seem to care. It's easy to get people to agree to be a parliamentary candidate, that's a high status job if you win, and most won't so no annoying job to worry about. Local councils even paper candidate might win in some circumstances, so you really should want to do it.

    But now Reform have a decent handful of MPs they are a more legitimate presence, adding support more locally (rather than building it locally and then getting MPs) becomes more viable as something supporters would be willing to try.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,182
    edited November 22
    Leon said:

    Oooooh. Juicy red on red action


    “Restaurant critic Jay Rayner has accused The Guardian of employing anti-Semites and its editor of lacking the courage to take them on – turning up the heat on the identity crisis gripping the Left-wing news organisation.

    “In a message to friends on Facebook, Mr Rayner, who this week quit the paper’s sister Sunday title The Observer after 28 years, launched an excoriating attack on Katharine Viner, the Guardian’s editor, over her alleged failure to properly address anti-Semitism.”

    Telegraph

    ££

    And they only quit just now over it?!
  • kle4 said:

    Leanne Mohamad, who lost the Ilford North MP election to Wes Streeting by 528 votes, has sent a complaint to the Electoral Commission outlining ‘serious irregularities’

    Streeting needs to hope there is not a need for a further election in Ilford North or his political career is over.

    Taken awhile to send that complaint, I'm curious if there is any kind of time limit on electoral petitions.
    It has been only four months since the election.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    Leanne Mohamad, who lost the Ilford North MP election to Wes Streeting by 528 votes, has sent a complaint to the Electoral Commission outlining ‘serious irregularities’

    Streeting needs to hope there is not a need for a further election in Ilford North or his political career is over.

    You could say the Left are opening a new front. It's luck they don't have a lot in common with the bitter Tories or they could pose the government problems.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,278
    edited November 22

    Leanne Mohamad, who lost the Ilford North MP election to Wes Streeting by 528 votes, has sent a complaint to the Electoral Commission outlining ‘serious irregularities’

    Streeting needs to hope there is not a need for a further election in Ilford North or his political career is over.

    Complete the following sequence: 30,000 - 25,000 - 15,000 - ?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,182

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    Farage will be 64 come the next election and will have spent most of his time in America sucking up to Trump.

    Reform's problem, and it is a big problem, is that they remain less a political party than an ego trip.

    Can they replace him? If they can't, and before the next election at that, they could easily die away again as UKIP have.

    Of course, they might potentially die away to be replaced with something even worse, but that's a different problem.
    Like all political parties built around a charismatic leader, there is the question of apres moi...?

    An issue that is especially true for Reform, as it is literally owned by Farage. And all the booze and fags will not have been kind to his longevity.
    Farage built it as a vehicle for himself. But after the election has been a significant attempt to professionalise and distribute power. They can't be dismissed as a personality cult any more, they are increasingly well planned, well resourced and serious.
    Bad news for the Tories if people become entrenched or actually attached to the Reform brand, they might be difficult to shift. Increasing the pressure to cut deals or ultimately merge.


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,182

    kle4 said:

    Leanne Mohamad, who lost the Ilford North MP election to Wes Streeting by 528 votes, has sent a complaint to the Electoral Commission outlining ‘serious irregularities’

    Streeting needs to hope there is not a need for a further election in Ilford North or his political career is over.

    Taken awhile to send that complaint, I'm curious if there is any kind of time limit on electoral petitions.
    It has been only four months since the election.
    That sounds like a long time to raise issues to me. But I don't know what the law regards as reasonable, or even if due to seriousness there's no time limit at all.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,625
    Leon said:

    Oooooh. Juicy red on red action


    “Restaurant critic Jay Rayner has accused The Guardian of employing anti-Semites and its editor of lacking the courage to take them on – turning up the heat on the identity crisis gripping the Left-wing news organisation.

    “In a message to friends on Facebook, Mr Rayner, who this week quit the paper’s sister Sunday title The Observer after 28 years, launched an excoriating attack on Katharine Viner, the Guardian’s editor, over her alleged failure to properly address anti-Semitism.”

    Telegraph

    ££

    Hope The Times or Sunday Times picks him up as restaurant reviewer. A few years ago it was Coren/Gill every weekend.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,445
    Roger said:

    Allison Pearson making an idiot of herself on Radio 4.

    That's a big surprise.

    I never thought she would go on a BBC station.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,263
    Leon said:

    Oooooh. Juicy red on red action


    “Restaurant critic Jay Rayner has accused The Guardian of employing anti-Semites and its editor of lacking the courage to take them on – turning up the heat on the identity crisis gripping the Left-wing news organisation.

    “In a message to friends on Facebook, Mr Rayner, who this week quit the paper’s sister Sunday title The Observer after 28 years, launched an excoriating attack on Katharine Viner, the Guardian’s editor, over her alleged failure to properly address anti-Semitism.”

    Telegraph

    ££

    God you don't want to piss off your restaurant critic with your political stance.

    Still, could be worse. It could be the travel writer.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,950
    Carnyx said:

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift. The Tories have shat themselves inside out. Labour have been in office for less than 5 months and everyone is sick of them.

    Reform are very serious about becoming very serious. Despite the usual "lets all point at the lunatics and fruitcakes" response from the mainstream, their organising is starting to look professional and they are picking up a very large number of members.

    And I have to put a word in for my own LibDems. As so many people note, once we dig in we dig in deep. And with the big two in disarray the opportunity is there to keep the momentum going.

    Once politicians lose their contact with reality they are finished. The Tories are on planet Zog, Labour are sailing off into the distance not having realised that they aren't taking the country with them. That creates a vacuum, and all kinds of things will get sucked in...

    I think the problem for Reform is that, a bit like the Lib Dems at times, they are winning as 'we are not like them'. The Lib Dems imploded after the coalition because they were shown to be just like the rest i.e. being in power means you have to compromise. Governing is to choose and all that. I have no idea what Reform stand for, other than a strong suspicion its no more immigration, low taxes and England winning at sport. Being a protest vote is ok until you win.
    Talking of which, look at the Glasgow results yesterday.

    Drumchapel & Anniesland (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 34.3% (-3.8)
    🎗️ SNP: 26.3% (-11.6)
    ➡️ RFM: 12.8% (New)
    🙋 IND: 9.4% (+4.2)
    🌍 GRN: 8.3% (+2.3)
    🌳 CON: 5.8% (-3.7)
    🔶 LDM: 2.9% (+1.3)

    Labour HOLD - Elected Stage 7.
    Changes w/ 2022.

    Maryhill (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 35.9% (+1.9)
    🎗️ SNP: 29.2% (-12.9)
    ➡️ RFM: 12.7% (New)
    🌍 GRN: 12.1% (-0.2)
    🔷 ALBA: 4.2% (New)
    🌳 CON: 3.2% (-5.0)
    🔶 LDM: 2.7% (+0.3)

    North East (Glasgow) Council By-Election Result [1st Prefs]:

    🌹 LAB: 34.3% (-9.7)
    🎗️ SNP: 32.2% (-10.4)
    ➡️ RFM: 18.3% (New)
    🌳 CON: 5.4% (-3.3)
    🌍 GRN: 4.2% (+1.2)
    🧑‍🔧 TUSC: 3.7% (+2.5)
    🔶 LDM: 2.0% (New)

    Labour HOLD - Elected Stage 7.
    Changes w/ 2022.

    Clearly there are lots of flows and counterflows. But those figures only really make sense if there's a hefty SNP to Reform shift.
    Or the SNP voters stay home and the Reform voters come out to play. Poor turnout plus quite a drop in the Cons vote, which suggests that to some extent.

    The SNP have made an arse of running Glasgow Council. They replaced Labour, who used at as their personal bank. Only orangemen vote Conservative in Glasgow, and they now have Reform who align more closely with their worldview.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,445
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Rachel Reeves’s real banking roles revealed after claim she was an economist

    Sources have told the i that rather than being an economist, she worked in customer relations and mortgages.

    However, a source close to Ms Reeves explained to i the change was as a result of a one of her staff incorrectly listing the job description on the business networking site.

    https://inews.co.uk/news/rachel-reeves-banking-roles-revealed-cv-3390856

    Embellishing her CV has failed to get me particularly excited, but this...liar, liar, pants on fire.....why is a lacky doing your LinkedIn profile...and you never checked what they put on it..... Come on man.....

    Her role was variously described as an 'analyst' and an 'economist' in earlier profiles:

    Guardian 2011:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/oct/23/rachel-reeves-new-era-labour

    "I've got two economics degrees," she says, through gritted teeth. She has also had stints at the Bank of England, the British Embassy in Washington and as an analyst at HBOS...

    Unlike Ed Balls, Reeves is untainted by New Labour's love affair with light-touch City regulation (her career at HBOS was based in its retail division up in Yorkshire, not among the high-rollers in the capital).


    Telegraph 2012:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/9014203/Rachel-Reeves-the-chess-expert-who-may-end-up-as-queen-of-Labour.html

    A junior chess champion from a relatively humble background, she spent 10 years as an economist for the Bank of England, HBOS and at the British embassy in Washington before entering Parliament.
    Speaking as someone who has worked as an economist my entire professional life, I find this whole discussion somewhat pointless. Reeves has a bachelor's and masters degree in economics. She worked in a role entitled economist at the BOE (I have never met her myself but I know people who worked with her at the BOE and consider her a talented economist). At HBOS she worked in some role that, it seems, may not have had the job title "economist". But she may well have drawn on her economics training in the job and considered it an "economics job". Referring to herself as an economist across both roles therefore doesn't seem a particularly egregious crime. It's not as if being an economist is such an exalted position in a financial institution - if only it was!
    Of all the feeble attempts to discredit a seemingly decent person this is one of the most poorly directed. It has nothing to do with the way she carries out her job nor the way she became the first female chancellor.

    There was an ex Tory MP who used to work with her who waxed lyrical about her abilities. I'd like to think this witch hunt was sexism but I don't think it is. It's just some very bitter people kicking out uncontrollably at anything that seems vulnerable
    You believe these things because you are singularly unable to criticise anyone who is in the Labour Party because you are of very small brain. Reeves is not even slightly innocent in this. The Labour Party was quite right in calling out Boris Johnson for his dishonesty. It is a shame that they, and their tribalist supporters, do not uphold the principles of honesty when it applies to them. Oh, no, they are except, in the same way as they are OK to take lavish gifts.

    Hypocrites.
    Has Reeves ever been fired for lying to her boss like Johnson was?
    Allegedly she was forced to resign for lying about having doctor's appointments when she was actually doing Labour party business on the side.
    Go back to bed. Get some rest.
    Well it is dark already...
    Fucksake. Is it? Dark already?
    It's nearly 6pm, time for bed soon anyway.
    Is it time for his knap?
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Leanne Mohamad, who lost the Ilford North MP election to Wes Streeting by 528 votes, has sent a complaint to the Electoral Commission outlining ‘serious irregularities’

    Streeting needs to hope there is not a need for a further election in Ilford North or his political career is over.

    Taken awhile to send that complaint, I'm curious if there is any kind of time limit on electoral petitions.
    It has been only four months since the election.
    That sounds like a long time to raise issues to me. But I don't know what the law regards as reasonable, or even if due to seriousness there's no time limit at all.
    As I said on the last thread, going only from Leanne's TwiX that refers to problems on the night of the count, that this might just be the sort of argument some Trump supporters made about what observers were allowed to look at, but I do not know.

    She said:-
    I have sent a letter of complaint this week to the Electoral Commission and Redbridge electoral services outlining serious irregularities on the night of the count on July 5th in Ilford North, raising questions regarding compliance with electoral law and guidance. I have retained Bindmans LLP and specialist King’s Counsel on this issue and have asked the Electoral Commission to examine the activities of Redbridge Council.
    https://x.com/LeanneMohamad/status/1859919169002561772
  • How a Labour MP evicted a homeless mother of two
    https://www.the-londoner.co.uk/labour-bayo-alaba-evicted-tenant/

    Another embarrassing story for Labour, and another with a link to Redbridge.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,801

    Leanne Mohamad, who lost the Ilford North MP election to Wes Streeting by 528 votes, has sent a complaint to the Electoral Commission outlining ‘serious irregularities’

    Streeting needs to hope there is not a need for a further election in Ilford North or his political career is over.

    We need him to fix nhs.

    I doubt anyone else in Labour would be as capable.

  • kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Oooooh. Juicy red on red action


    “Restaurant critic Jay Rayner has accused The Guardian of employing anti-Semites and its editor of lacking the courage to take them on – turning up the heat on the identity crisis gripping the Left-wing news organisation.

    “In a message to friends on Facebook, Mr Rayner, who this week quit the paper’s sister Sunday title The Observer after 28 years, launched an excoriating attack on Katharine Viner, the Guardian’s editor, over her alleged failure to properly address anti-Semitism.”

    Telegraph

    ££

    God you don't want to piss off your restaurant critic with your political stance.

    Still, could be worse. It could be the travel writer.
    Jay Rayner's gone to the Financial Times.
  • Leanne Mohamad, who lost the Ilford North MP election to Wes Streeting by 528 votes, has sent a complaint to the Electoral Commission outlining ‘serious irregularities’

    Streeting needs to hope there is not a need for a further election in Ilford North or his political career is over.

    FPT

    Wicked! I is here in da North Ilford Ghetto, hangin' wid me bitches!
  • carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Oooooh. Juicy red on red action


    “Restaurant critic Jay Rayner has accused The Guardian of employing anti-Semites and its editor of lacking the courage to take them on – turning up the heat on the identity crisis gripping the Left-wing news organisation.

    “In a message to friends on Facebook, Mr Rayner, who this week quit the paper’s sister Sunday title The Observer after 28 years, launched an excoriating attack on Katharine Viner, the Guardian’s editor, over her alleged failure to properly address anti-Semitism.”

    Telegraph

    ££

    Hope The Times or Sunday Times picks him up as restaurant reviewer. A few years ago it was Coren/Gill every weekend.
    Jay Rayner has gone to the Financial Times.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,625
    Gordon Brown comes out against Assisted Dying:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c207yjrn7r6o

    I've been assuming this will pass: is it possible it doesn't?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,166
    edited November 22
    Roger said:

    Leanne Mohamad, who lost the Ilford North MP election to Wes Streeting by 528 votes, has sent a complaint to the Electoral Commission outlining ‘serious irregularities’

    Streeting needs to hope there is not a need for a further election in Ilford North or his political career is over.

    You could say the Left are opening a new front. It's luck they don't have a lot in common with the bitter Tories or they could pose the government problems.
    They do not need to do anything, the government is posing problems all by itself and of its own making

    Shooting oneself in the foot comes to mind
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,182
    carnforth said:

    Gordon Brown comes out against Assisted Dying:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c207yjrn7r6o

    I've been assuming this will pass: is it possible it doesn't?

    I suspect it still will, I think there's enough MPs on the fence who will decide it should progress to the next stage and tell themselves they can vote it down later if needed, there's a lot of pressure about that it would be somehow unfair if it doesn't pass this stage. But I do think it will be closer than many initially thought, as there has been a reasonable spread of MPs who are either against the principle or have sufficient issues with the details to think it is not necessary to grant more time to this particular bill.

    If it does fail, it will be interesting to see how quickly it might come back in a new form - if support is as broad as claimed, I don't buy the idea it will take another 5 years.
  • carnforth said:

    Gordon Brown comes out against Assisted Dying:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c207yjrn7r6o

    I've been assuming this will pass: is it possible it doesn't?

    Talked out ?????
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,304
    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    Gordon Brown comes out against Assisted Dying:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c207yjrn7r6o

    I've been assuming this will pass: is it possible it doesn't?

    I suspect it still will, I think there's enough MPs on the fence who will decide it should progress to the next stage and tell themselves they can vote it down later if needed, there's a lot of pressure about that it would be somehow unfair if it doesn't pass this stage. But I do think it will be closer than many initially thought, as there has been a reasonable spread of MPs who are either against the principle or have sufficient issues with the details to think it is not necessary to grant more time to this particular bill.

    If it does fail, it will be interesting to see how quickly it might come back in a new form - if support is as broad as claimed, I don't buy the idea it will take another 5 years.
    If the govt doesn't introduce it - then it would need to win another private members' ballot?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,907
    edited November 22

    kle4 said:

    Leanne Mohamad, who lost the Ilford North MP election to Wes Streeting by 528 votes, has sent a complaint to the Electoral Commission outlining ‘serious irregularities’

    Streeting needs to hope there is not a need for a further election in Ilford North or his political career is over.

    Taken awhile to send that complaint, I'm curious if there is any kind of time limit on electoral petitions.
    It has been only four months since the election.
    Mark Oaten of the LDs was unseated by electoral petition on 6th October 1997, fully five months after the 1997 election. But it's not clear when the petition process started. In any case, he won the by-election on 20th November by 21,556 votes, compared with just 2, yes TWO, votes at the General Election.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,863
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Rachel Reeves’s real banking roles revealed after claim she was an economist

    Sources have told the i that rather than being an economist, she worked in customer relations and mortgages.

    However, a source close to Ms Reeves explained to i the change was as a result of a one of her staff incorrectly listing the job description on the business networking site.

    https://inews.co.uk/news/rachel-reeves-banking-roles-revealed-cv-3390856

    Embellishing her CV has failed to get me particularly excited, but this...liar, liar, pants on fire.....why is a lacky doing your LinkedIn profile...and you never checked what they put on it..... Come on man.....

    Her role was variously described as an 'analyst' and an 'economist' in earlier profiles:

    Guardian 2011:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/oct/23/rachel-reeves-new-era-labour

    "I've got two economics degrees," she says, through gritted teeth. She has also had stints at the Bank of England, the British Embassy in Washington and as an analyst at HBOS...

    Unlike Ed Balls, Reeves is untainted by New Labour's love affair with light-touch City regulation (her career at HBOS was based in its retail division up in Yorkshire, not among the high-rollers in the capital).


    Telegraph 2012:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/9014203/Rachel-Reeves-the-chess-expert-who-may-end-up-as-queen-of-Labour.html

    A junior chess champion from a relatively humble background, she spent 10 years as an economist for the Bank of England, HBOS and at the British embassy in Washington before entering Parliament.
    Speaking as someone who has worked as an economist my entire professional life, I find this whole discussion somewhat pointless. Reeves has a bachelor's and masters degree in economics. She worked in a role entitled economist at the BOE (I have never met her myself but I know people who worked with her at the BOE and consider her a talented economist). At HBOS she worked in some role that, it seems, may not have had the job title "economist". But she may well have drawn on her economics training in the job and considered it an "economics job". Referring to herself as an economist across both roles therefore doesn't seem a particularly egregious crime. It's not as if being an economist is such an exalted position in a financial institution - if only it was!
    Of all the feeble attempts to discredit a seemingly decent person this is one of the most poorly directed. It has nothing to do with the way she carries out her job nor the way she became the first female chancellor.

    There was an ex Tory MP who used to work with her who waxed lyrical about her abilities. I'd like to think this witch hunt was sexism but I don't think it is. It's just some very bitter people kicking out uncontrollably at anything that seems vulnerable
    You believe these things because you are singularly unable to criticise anyone who is in the Labour Party because you are of very small brain. Reeves is not even slightly innocent in this. The Labour Party was quite right in calling out Boris Johnson for his dishonesty. It is a shame that they, and their tribalist supporters, do not uphold the principles of honesty when it applies to them. Oh, no, they are except, in the same way as they are OK to take lavish gifts.

    Hypocrites.
    Has Reeves ever been fired for lying to her boss like Johnson was?
    Allegedly she was forced to resign for lying about having doctor's appointments when she was actually doing Labour party business on the side.
    Go back to bed. Get some rest.
    Well it is dark already...
    Fucksake. Is it? Dark already?
    You're 99 minutes late today!
  • kle4 said:

    Leanne Mohamad, who lost the Ilford North MP election to Wes Streeting by 528 votes, has sent a complaint to the Electoral Commission outlining ‘serious irregularities’

    Streeting needs to hope there is not a need for a further election in Ilford North or his political career is over.

    Taken awhile to send that complaint, I'm curious if there is any kind of time limit on electoral petitions.
    It has been only four months since the election.
    Mark Oaten of the LDs was unseated by electoral petition on 6th October 1997, fully five months after the 1997 election. But it's not clear when the petition process started. In any case, he won the by-election on 20th November by 21,556 votes, compared with just 2, yes TWO, votes at the General Election.
    Ooops. Forgot to mention it was Winchester!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,263

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Oooooh. Juicy red on red action


    “Restaurant critic Jay Rayner has accused The Guardian of employing anti-Semites and its editor of lacking the courage to take them on – turning up the heat on the identity crisis gripping the Left-wing news organisation.

    “In a message to friends on Facebook, Mr Rayner, who this week quit the paper’s sister Sunday title The Observer after 28 years, launched an excoriating attack on Katharine Viner, the Guardian’s editor, over her alleged failure to properly address anti-Semitism.”

    Telegraph

    ££

    God you don't want to piss off your restaurant critic with your political stance.

    Still, could be worse. It could be the travel writer.
    Jay Rayner's gone to the Financial Times.
    Ah ok. Well given Leon is the "Jay Rayner of place" I'm assuming he is the "Leon of food". In which case a poor fit at the Guardian.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,863

    kle4 said:

    Leanne Mohamad, who lost the Ilford North MP election to Wes Streeting by 528 votes, has sent a complaint to the Electoral Commission outlining ‘serious irregularities’

    Streeting needs to hope there is not a need for a further election in Ilford North or his political career is over.

    Taken awhile to send that complaint, I'm curious if there is any kind of time limit on electoral petitions.
    It has been only four months since the election.
    Mark Oaten of the LDs was unseated by electoral petition on 6th October 1997, fully five months after the 1997 election. But it's not clear when the petition process started. In any case, he won the by-election on 20th November by 21,556 votes, compared with just 2, yes TWO, votes at the General Election.
    I can never hear that name without chuckling. I wonder what he's doing now.

    Having just looked him up, he's executive of the International Fur Trade federation. Peculiar how lives turn out.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,249
    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    Leanne Mohamad, who lost the Ilford North MP election to Wes Streeting by 528 votes, has sent a complaint to the Electoral Commission outlining ‘serious irregularities’

    Streeting needs to hope there is not a need for a further election in Ilford North or his political career is over.

    Taken awhile to send that complaint, I'm curious if there is any kind of time limit on electoral petitions.
    It has been only four months since the election.
    Mark Oaten of the LDs was unseated by electoral petition on 6th October 1997, fully five months after the 1997 election. But it's not clear when the petition process started. In any case, he won the by-election on 20th November by 21,556 votes, compared with just 2, yes TWO, votes at the General Election.
    I can never hear that name without chuckling. I wonder what he's doing now.

    Having just looked him up, he's executive of the International Fur Trade federation. Peculiar how lives turn out.
    From one fetish to another.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,249
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    Leanne Mohamad, who lost the Ilford North MP election to Wes Streeting by 528 votes, has sent a complaint to the Electoral Commission outlining ‘serious irregularities’

    Streeting needs to hope there is not a need for a further election in Ilford North or his political career is over.

    Taken awhile to send that complaint, I'm curious if there is any kind of time limit on electoral petitions.
    It has been only four months since the election.
    Mark Oaten of the LDs was unseated by electoral petition on 6th October 1997, fully five months after the 1997 election. But it's not clear when the petition process started. In any case, he won the by-election on 20th November by 21,556 votes, compared with just 2, yes TWO, votes at the General Election.
    I can never hear that name without chuckling. I wonder what he's doing now.

    Having just looked him up, he's executive of the International Fur Trade federation. Peculiar how lives turn out.
    From one fetish to another.
    (Apparently, the hardest part was explaining to his kids that daddy paid a man to... well... you get the picture.)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,863
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Roger said:

    All these polls feel pretty meaningless. Asking people what they think when things are in flux can only remain valid for a few weeks. How can the NHS have improved in a month or anyone miss their £300 fuel allowance when it wouldn't have been paid out yet or notice house prices? They wouldn't so those who dislike Labour complain about VAT on school fees and millionaire farmers or Reeves CV.which wont change anyone's vote ....

    BUT.........................

    I change money from £s to euros four or five times a year. Usually £10,000 a time. I do it irrespective of the exchange rate that day. Today I've got the best rate for over 15 years.

    Does that tell us anything about the economy?

    You might have perhaps read about just how stuffed Germany is?
    While Germany has many problems (i.e. it's in recession), it's employment rate is only a smidgen below its all time highs, and it has negligible external liabilities.

    It's issue is that an obsession with behaving like a Swabian housewife has meant that the economy is massively over-dependent on external demand, in particular from the US and China.

    The solution to Germany's problems is pretty simple, and is more or less the inverse of the solutions to the UK and the US's problems: it needs to implement policies that encourage spending and discourage saving. I would start with implementing mortgage interest tax relief myself - that would get house prices moving, increase the wealth effect, and mean German consumers get their credit cards out.
    Yes, on reflection I'd rather have their economic problems than ours.
    I suppose the difference is that for most of the last two decades I'd MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have their economic problems than ours.
  • Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    Leanne Mohamad, who lost the Ilford North MP election to Wes Streeting by 528 votes, has sent a complaint to the Electoral Commission outlining ‘serious irregularities’

    Streeting needs to hope there is not a need for a further election in Ilford North or his political career is over.

    Taken awhile to send that complaint, I'm curious if there is any kind of time limit on electoral petitions.
    It has been only four months since the election.
    Mark Oaten of the LDs was unseated by electoral petition on 6th October 1997, fully five months after the 1997 election. But it's not clear when the petition process started. In any case, he won the by-election on 20th November by 21,556 votes, compared with just 2, yes TWO, votes at the General Election.
    I can never hear that name without chuckling. I wonder what he's doing now.

    Having just looked him up, he's executive of the International Fur Trade federation. Peculiar how lives turn out.
    And:

    "In the 2023 United Kingdom local elections Oaten stood unsuccessfully for the Liberal Democrats in the Severn Vale Ward of South Gloucestershire Council, receiving 1,435 votes."
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,314
    edited November 22

    How a Labour MP evicted a homeless mother of two
    https://www.the-londoner.co.uk/labour-bayo-alaba-evicted-tenant/

    Another embarrassing story for Labour, and another with a link to Redbridge.

    (You can click through to the articles without handing over your email address.)

    That's a poor report, with a number of inaccuracies, and an inane commentary from the London Renters Union, which suggests that it is unacceptable for politicians who are LLs to take part in a Redbridge Council run scheme to provide accommodation for people who are homeless - barking.

    He has given almost 12 months notice, and his reason is major refurbishment and sale (TBF his "I am considering refurb or sale" statement is insufficiently clear; the Council would be responsible for that under the scheme, I think.)

    Example of Error:
    Normally Alaba’s justification for the eviction (selling the property) would fall under the umbrella of a Section 21 ‘no fault’ eviction, a practice Labour is set to ban, with the changes expected to come into force next year. But her rolling “temporary accommodation” tenancy has less protections than a normal tenancy and allows private landlords to evict tenants by just choosing to end their contract with the council rather than having to file a Section 21 notice to the tenant.

    The Redbridge scheme requires a normal AST type tenancy, which is a fixed period plus a rolling tenancy afterwards - requiring at least 2 months notice plus the tenants has a right to insist on Court enforcement should they wish, which adds 2-4 months more.

    I think the "temporary accommodation" tenancy is a fairy story they have made up from the continuing rolling period of the AST, which is how the law has required these to be done for 3-4 decades. This IS a normal tenancy.

    It could potentially be a License to Occupy, which is less secure, but the Redbridge scheme excludes these.

    It may be embarrassing, however - depending whether Labour's communications are working before it goes national. They need to get beyond a "whinge later" strategy.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,451

    How a Labour MP evicted a homeless mother of two
    https://www.the-londoner.co.uk/labour-bayo-alaba-evicted-tenant/

    Another embarrassing story for Labour, and another with a link to Redbridge.

    It’s his property, he wanted to sell it. It’s a nothing story. Why should he not sell his own property ? If the boot was on the other foot she’d just leave as per her agreement. Probably little more than lobbying on behalf of those supporting the so-called renters reform act.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,143

    viewcode said:

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift...

    Oh I think that's certain at this point. It's not just the end of neoliberalism/Sixth Party System/"politics as usual" it's that the volatility isn't settling down. I would have bet large sums in January 2020 on Boris owning the 2020s, but he didn't. Truss had a well-thought-out approach which just didn't work. Sunak was reflexive and spasmodic. Starmer is...what now? Give 22billion to Ed Miliband so he can play God Of All Greens? Ugh. I don't know where all this is going to settle, I'll tell you that.

    Truss had many things but "a well-thought-out approach" wasn't one of them.
    Oh, it was very well thought out and entirely logical. But the axioms the logic was based on were faulty and the world was different to what she thought, and - bang - it blew up in her face.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,314
    edited November 22
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    Leanne Mohamad, who lost the Ilford North MP election to Wes Streeting by 528 votes, has sent a complaint to the Electoral Commission outlining ‘serious irregularities’

    Streeting needs to hope there is not a need for a further election in Ilford North or his political career is over.

    Taken awhile to send that complaint, I'm curious if there is any kind of time limit on electoral petitions.
    It has been only four months since the election.
    Mark Oaten of the LDs was unseated by electoral petition on 6th October 1997, fully five months after the 1997 election. But it's not clear when the petition process started. In any case, he won the by-election on 20th November by 21,556 votes, compared with just 2, yes TWO, votes at the General Election.
    I can never hear that name without chuckling. I wonder what he's doing now.

    Having just looked him up, he's executive of the International Fur Trade federation. Peculiar how lives turn out.
    From one fetish to another.
    Professional fluffer (of fur coats).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,182
    Taz said:

    How a Labour MP evicted a homeless mother of two
    https://www.the-londoner.co.uk/labour-bayo-alaba-evicted-tenant/

    Another embarrassing story for Labour, and another with a link to Redbridge.

    It’s his property, he wanted to sell it. It’s a nothing story. Why should he not sell his own property ? If the boot was on the other foot she’d just leave as per her agreement. Probably little more than lobbying on behalf of those supporting the so-called renters reform act.
    I struggle with it, because not being able to deal with potential and actual homelessness seems like a separate issue entirely which gets combined with talk of 'unjust' evictions. I mean, what's the solution here, that he should not be able to sell his own property? What if he were in financial difficulty and needed to sell it? (Obviously not the case here, he has many properties, but what if he were)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,182
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    It's just possible that we are living through another generational political shift...

    Oh I think that's certain at this point. It's not just the end of neoliberalism/Sixth Party System/"politics as usual" it's that the volatility isn't settling down. I would have bet large sums in January 2020 on Boris owning the 2020s, but he didn't. Truss had a well-thought-out approach which just didn't work. Sunak was reflexive and spasmodic. Starmer is...what now? Give 22billion to Ed Miliband so he can play God Of All Greens? Ugh. I don't know where all this is going to settle, I'll tell you that.

    Truss had many things but "a well-thought-out approach" wasn't one of them.
    Oh, it was very well thought out and entirely logical. But the axioms the logic was based on were faulty and the world was different to what she thought, and - bang - it blew up in her face.
    No, it was the deep state, totally. Or the Daily Star.
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