The Conservative Party is hated. If you are a PB Tory the exercise shouldn't be to blame the voter, or the left, or the media, or any other factor than the person in the mirror.
Why is what I believe in so hated, and how do I change that?
What the average Tory believes in isn't hated. Their failure to enact once elected what they 'believe in' is hated.
Maybe. But I would put in first place the incompetence and corruption. How do the Tories get over tthat with the present crew in charge?
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
Not good for the overall reputation of the doggie set.
But then most Brits don't believe in challenging the ASB of others, despite the Peelian Principles ("The police are the public and the public are the police"), so it becomes accepted.
That's the really bizarre thing to me - it's both more effort and worse than just leaving it on the ground. So why do it?
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I'd support that. I often feel unsafe around dogs, particularly after COVID. Our local mini-park is basically unusable for reading in peace or giving children somewhere safe to run about. That's a disaster in an area dominated by tenements and a lack of green space.
These are just normal people voicing concerns that many white people are probably too scared to bring up. Dog owners are noisy opponents.
It is utter nonsense.
We live adjoining a park and speak to all the many dog owners who go past our home to exercise in the park and they are responsible and in 49 years living here there has not been one adverse incident re any dog
I should say we have never owned a dog ourselves
On a number of occasions I have heard dog owners / walkers cited as the most significant ASB problem on footpaths / rail trails.
Close control is a requirement in public places (I think a legal requirement) - and this issue is due to loss of control due to letting off lead in inappropriate places / extendy-leads which are incapable of controlling a dog. Comsequences are risks to people since dogs *do* bite and attack, and risks to livestock.
It's not dissimilar to other practices which are assumed to be OK, either due to lack of challenge over a long period, or because a right is assumed, and challenges are treated as illegitimate or offensive.
I'd include people riding cycles at inappropriate speed in pedestrian areas and people leaving their motor vehicles blocking visibility or crossings or pedestrian drop kerbs or pavements.
Responses to challenge should be "sorry, I won't do it again", but more often are a scale starting with "I'm not hurting anyone", then "can't you wait", "I need to", through to "fuck off, you prick" and "I'm going to punch your lights out" and actual violence.
I'm a little sceptical of the point raised by the Welsh bodies, but real cultural and physical barriers do exist, and need to be considered and potentially addressed. Often others may not be aware of the barrier, as a motorist may not consider the people they are forcing into the road whilst they are not there, or a dog owner may not be considering that some of the people they are exposing to their dog may have an experience of being attacked.
Here's an Ashley Neale 60s video about the dog leads one, with a dog on a type of lead that may as well mean it is off the lead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUokcl2S6Rk
I'm disappointed by the video - I'd forgotten who Ashley Neale was and clicked through genuinely expecting some kind of B&W stiff-upper-lip public information video about keeping your dog on a suitable lead from the 1960s
I'll add "seconds" next time.
I sometimes see such a pooch in one of his videos, that he does not remark on always - fair enough.
But I ride cycles so I have to keep an eye out for the lead between the politely sat down hound on one side of the path, and the owner on the other. Otherwise it can easily be arse-over-tip.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
Is this going to delay the much needed reintroduction of the wolf?
One could argue that reintroduction of wolves might work wonders on dealing with dogs off leads - either through direct removal of the problem, for smaller dogs at least, or through encouragement of keeping dogs on leads
What about fouling? What's the track record on wolves' dog poo bag usage and will the presence of wolves increase excrement from domestic dogs?
John Bolton, who is a staggeringly dumb warmonger, being against someone is a great sign!
Gaetz will be great.
So the US has elected a President who is a convicted felon who has nominated in turn an AG being investigated into allegations of sexual misconduct, illicit drug use and misuse of campaign funds.
Well nobody can say the US does not give ex offenders a second chance
I am coming to the reluctant conclusion that Trump winning was probably for the best, for the same reasons that @darkage adduces
I can see where that perspective comes from and yet there's a huge difference between what Trump may do in theory to just reset identity politics and all of the shit that comes with and the reality of Tulsi Gabbard being the director of nation security and selling Ukraine out to Putin.
Defeating "woke" — if such a thing truly even exists — by destroying the government of the world's most important democracy seems like quite a high price to pay in my opinion.
How can a twat like you still be a thing? Denying that “woke” even exists?
Grow up
The trouble is the 'war on woke' is not a war that's meant to be won.
It's meant to be continous to keep the ignorant onside and close down debate.
We already have pricks casting envious glances at totalitarian states and wondering if democracy has run its course.
I am coming to the reluctant conclusion that Trump winning was probably for the best, for the same reasons that @darkage adduces
I can see where that perspective comes from and yet there's a huge difference between what Trump may do in theory to just reset identity politics and all of the shit that comes with and the reality of Tulsi Gabbard being the director of nation security and selling Ukraine out to Putin.
Defeating "woke" — if such a thing truly even exists — by destroying the government of the world's most important democracy seems like quite a high price to pay in my opinion.
How can a twat like you still be a thing? Denying that “woke” even exists?
Grow up
The trouble is the 'war on woke' is not a war that's meant to be won.
It's meant to be continous to keep the ignorant onside and close down debate.
We already have pricks casting envious glances at totalitarian states and wondering if democracy has run its course.
If a sensible safeguard like requiring a degree to vote were in place, then Harris would have won comfortably.
I am coming to the reluctant conclusion that Trump winning was probably for the best, for the same reasons that @darkage adduces
I can see where that perspective comes from and yet there's a huge difference between what Trump may do in theory to just reset identity politics and all of the shit that comes with and the reality of Tulsi Gabbard being the director of nation security and selling Ukraine out to Putin.
Defeating "woke" — if such a thing truly even exists — by destroying the government of the world's most important democracy seems like quite a high price to pay in my opinion.
How can a twat like you still be a thing? Denying that “woke” even exists?
Grow up
The trouble is the 'war on woke' is not a war that's meant to be won.
It's meant to be continous to keep the ignorant onside and close down debate.
We already have pricks casting envious glances at totalitarian states and wondering if democracy has run its course.
If a sensible safeguard like requiring a degree to vote were in place, then Harris would have won comfortably.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
Surely that would be a grievous insult to Allah (SWT), in that He was careless enough to create "unclean" animals?
John Bolton, who is a staggeringly dumb warmonger, being against someone is a great sign!
Gaetz will be great.
So the US has elected a President who is a convicted felon who has nominated in turn an AG being investigated into allegations of sexual misconduct, illicit drug use and misuse of campaign funds.
Well nobody can say the US does not give ex offenders a second chance
Anyone can just come out with an allegation though. One of the most idiotic things about the current culture is that an allegation is sufficient to permanently remove someone from public life.
I expect that concern about this phenomena is widespread and behind a lot of support for Trump.
John Bolton, who is a staggeringly dumb warmonger, being against someone is a great sign!
Gaetz will be great.
So the US has elected a President who is a convicted felon who has nominated in turn an AG being investigated into allegations of sexual misconduct, illicit drug use and misuse of campaign funds.
Well nobody can say the US does not give ex offenders a second chance
Anyone can just come out with an allegation though. One of the most idiotic things about the current culture is that an allegation is sufficient to permanently remove someone from public life.
I expect that concern about this phenomena is widespread and behind a lot of support for Trump.
True, though Trump was convicted by a jury in a court of law of using hush money, it was not a mere allegation in his case
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think Musk is vastly overrated as a successful business person.
The only business he’s ran entirely himself is X which has from the perspective of a company, been a disaster.
Tesla - didn’t start and arguably stole it
Space X - didn’t start and doesn’t run it day to day
PayPal - got kicked out for being a loon and wanting to call it X
So its just luck that he is rich beyond imagination? You don't have to like someone to recognise that they have been very successful.
It is surely not controversial to think that luck plays the biggest part in becoming a billionaire? To what extent is debatable but it would seem quite absurd to think it is mostly down to "brilliance" or "hard work". There are far more brilliant and hard working non billionaires.
To become a billionaire in one venture might be down to luck (albeit still luck allied to judgement, hard work, insight and acumen - which are always essential components unless it's pure patronage. and even then there will have to be reasons for patronage on that scale). But to put the building of three such ventures down to luck is absurd and flies in the face of both facts and statistics.
Maybe we mean different things by luck. There are far more equally brilliant and hard working non billionaires than billionaires. So to end up in the billionaire category is luck. That does not deny you have to be good at something in the first place, just that being good doesn't normally equate to becoming a billionaire.
That's a false logic to assume that 'being brilliant' should naturally lead to becoming a billionaire. It doesn't. Apart from anything else, there are many ways to interpret brilliance and only a few of them lead to great riches - either if you have a directly and globally marketable quality (which only a tiny number of others, at most, share), or an ability to leverage an idea into wealth, which takes a lot more than just coming up with the idea, or finding a way to exploit someone else's. In that second case - in business, essentially - it also takes leadership, unless you have an extraordinary patent. And many who are brilliant at one thing are not great leaders: they would rather sell their brilliance for a decent and guaranteed return than bid for higher returns (or nothing) by doing it themselves.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I'd support that. I often feel unsafe around dogs, particularly after COVID. Our local mini-park is basically unusable for reading in peace or giving children somewhere safe to run about. That's a disaster in an area dominated by tenements and a lack of green space.
These are just normal people voicing concerns that many white people are probably too scared to bring up. Dog owners are noisy opponents.
It is utter nonsense.
We live adjoining a park and speak to all the many dog owners who go past our home to exercise them in the park and they are responsible and in 49 years living here there has not been one adverse incident re any dog
I should say we have never owned a dog ourselves
Dogs killed 4x as many people as were killed in collisions involving bicycles in 2023.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
Not good for the overall reputation of the doggie set.
But then most Brits don't believe in challenging the ASB of others, despite the Peelian Principles ("The police are the public and the public are the police"), so it becomes accepted.
That's the really bizarre thing to me - it's both more effort and worse than just leaving it on the ground. So why do it?
Obviously I don't do it, and like you i have never understood it.
Is there no one on PB who can explain why people do this?
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
Surely that would be a grievous insult to Allah (SWT), in that He was careless enough to create "unclean" animals?
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
The Charedi community also regards dogs as unclean, and many will go out of their way to avoid coming into contact with one (crossing the street, or standing in a doorway to let it pass, etc). And, of course, Afro-Caribbeans historically tended to be wary of dogs but I don't think that's down to any sort of actual taboo as such.
I personally don't find dogs to be much of a problem in rural settings - it's more often urban parks and narrow paths where they're not kept under proper control. But I can definitely see how the "outdoors = dogs jumping up on you" association could be formed, so I don't think there's any harm in exploring ways to reassure people that the countryside isn't always like that.
I have sometimes been chased by, or barked at loudly, by dogs when out on my bike. Even chased by a Greyhound once in Chester Park who I realised I would never outrun but, thankfully, after I stopped and shouted “Fuck off” at it off it fucked.
But these have been in parks and on roads not in the countryside. similar to your experience.
I think Musk is vastly overrated as a successful business person.
The only business he’s ran entirely himself is X which has from the perspective of a company, been a disaster.
Tesla - didn’t start and arguably stole it
Space X - didn’t start and doesn’t run it day to day
PayPal - got kicked out for being a loon and wanting to call it X
So its just luck that he is rich beyond imagination? You don't have to like someone to recognise that they have been very successful.
It is surely not controversial to think that luck plays the biggest part in becoming a billionaire? To what extent is debatable but it would seem quite absurd to think it is mostly down to "brilliance" or "hard work". There are far more brilliant and hard working non billionaires.
To become a billionaire in one venture might be down to luck (albeit still luck allied to judgement, hard work, insight and acumen - which are always essential components unless it's pure patronage. and even then there will have to be reasons for patronage on that scale). But to put the building of three such ventures down to luck is absurd and flies in the face of both facts and statistics.
I agree that Musk has substantial talents and that it's hard to put it down to luck.
However, invoking statistics has dangers of going a bit Roy Meadows - creating/developing any single so successful a company is rare; creating three vanishingly so, but Musk had certain advantages (luck) playing some part in enabling the first and, once one has made lots of money and learned how to develop a successful company, further successes are not independent events.
I think Musk is a talented arsehole with a side helping of luck, but there's not really a statistical argument against him just being an arsehole with lots of luck.
Musk's ability to push the innovations of SpaceX the way he did for as long as he did is, I agree, not something he could have done had he not got Tesla and PayPal behind him. To that extent, it's not independent and to that extent, he made his own 'luck'.
On the other hand, they are essentially independent businesses in the sense of creating wholly independent products - and all became world-leading from a minimal or non-existent base. That's more than coincidence.
John Bolton, who is a staggeringly dumb warmonger, being against someone is a great sign!
Gaetz will be great.
So the US has elected a President who is a convicted felon who has nominated in turn an AG being investigated into allegations of sexual misconduct, illicit drug use and misuse of campaign funds.
Well nobody can say the US does not give ex offenders a second chance
Anyone can just come out with an allegation though. One of the most idiotic things about the current culture is that an allegation is sufficient to permanently remove someone from public life.
I expect that concern about this phenomena is widespread and behind a lot of support for Trump.
Oh come off it we have all witnessed some of Trump's crimes. Now I know due justice needs to be done and a crime tried in front an impartial jury, but are you serious?
And I would point out he has actually been found guilty in such a court by his peers for some of these crimes. He is only not going to jail because he has been elected president.
I am coming to the reluctant conclusion that Trump winning was probably for the best, for the same reasons that @darkage adduces
I can see where that perspective comes from and yet there's a huge difference between what Trump may do in theory to just reset identity politics and all of the shit that comes with and the reality of Tulsi Gabbard being the director of nation security and selling Ukraine out to Putin.
Defeating "woke" — if such a thing truly even exists — by destroying the government of the world's most important democracy seems like quite a high price to pay in my opinion.
How can a twat like you still be a thing? Denying that “woke” even exists?
Grow up
The trouble is the 'war on woke' is not a war that's meant to be won.
It's meant to be continous to keep the ignorant onside and close down debate.
We already have pricks casting envious glances at totalitarian states and wondering if democracy has run its course.
If a sensible safeguard like requiring a degree to vote were in place, then Harris would have won comfortably.
As would Romney in 2012
Exactly. Rabble-rousers would have a much harder time of it.
John Bolton, who is a staggeringly dumb warmonger, being against someone is a great sign!
Gaetz will be great.
So the US has elected a President who is a convicted felon who has nominated in turn an AG being investigated into allegations of sexual misconduct, illicit drug use and misuse of campaign funds.
Well nobody can say the US does not give ex offenders a second chance
Anyone can just come out with an allegation though. One of the most idiotic things about the current culture is that an allegation is sufficient to permanently remove someone from public life.
I expect that concern about this phenomena is widespread and behind a lot of support for Trump.
Numerous allegations and convictions have done a pisspoor job of removing Trump from public life,
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
There is a hadith that goes: خَمْسٌ فَوَاسِقُ يُقْتَلْنَ فِي الْحَرَمِ الْفَأْرَةُ وَالْعَقْرَبُ وَالْحُدَيَّا وَالْغُرَابُ وَالْكَلْبُ الْعَقُورُ
“Five are the vicious and harmful things which should be killed even within the precincts of Haram: rats, scorpions, crows, kites and mad dogs.”
So, indeed, no, Islam is not a pro-dog religion. It is however a very pro-cat religion. Mohammed had a pet cat Muezza and, in one story, cut off the sleeve of his garment rather than disturb Muezza when he had to go pray. (However, the authenticity of this story is not widely accepted.) In another story, someone saw Muezza drinking from the fountain set aside for ablutions before prayers. This was reported to Mohammed, who replied, “Cats have the cleanest mouths”. In yet another story, while Mohammed was praying, a cat killed a serpent that was going to attack him. Mohammed rewarded the cat, and all cats, by blessing them with the ability to land on their feet.
Tabby cats have an M marking on their foreheads. Some say this was a gift from Mohammed, but then there's the Catholic story that a tabby cat got too close to Jesus's crib and Mary lightly pushed it away by touching its forehead, leaving the M mark forever more. Both of these stories rather over-privilege the Latin alphabet's significance...
John Bolton, who is a staggeringly dumb warmonger, being against someone is a great sign!
Gaetz will be great.
So the US has elected a President who is a convicted felon who has nominated in turn an AG being investigated into allegations of sexual misconduct, illicit drug use and misuse of campaign funds.
Well nobody can say the US does not give ex offenders a second chance
Anyone can just come out with an allegation though. One of the most idiotic things about the current culture is that an allegation is sufficient to permanently remove someone from public life.
I expect that concern about this phenomena is widespread and behind a lot of support for Trump.
Oh come off it we have all witnessed some of Trump's crimes. Now I know due justice needs to be done and a crime tried in front an impartial jury, but are you serious?
And I would point out he has actually been found guilty in such a court by his peers for some of these crimes. He is only not going to jail because he has been elected president.
Which itself wouldn't have happened had Congress done its job and impeached him the second time.
I am coming to the reluctant conclusion that Trump winning was probably for the best, for the same reasons that @darkage adduces
I can see where that perspective comes from and yet there's a huge difference between what Trump may do in theory to just reset identity politics and all of the shit that comes with and the reality of Tulsi Gabbard being the director of nation security and selling Ukraine out to Putin.
Defeating "woke" — if such a thing truly even exists — by destroying the government of the world's most important democracy seems like quite a high price to pay in my opinion.
Had 'woke' not gone too far, this change would not have been necessary. The problem was it was getting more and more extreme, and the left was not moderating itself.
Ultimately the voters delivered their verdict.... in the form of Donald Trump.
The phrase ""woke" - if such a thing truly exists" is a nonsense. Of course it exists. It just means different things to different people. To some its about courtesy and doing the right thing for people, for others its utter rubbish and driving people to distraction. I think, like a lot of things, how people think about stuff evolves. We see it in language use. Not that long ago we use the term "Third World". Then we have the Global South, now its the the Global Majority and so on. People sometimes fail to keep up with the current use and get castigated. Is it correct to say Coloured People or People of Colour (or neither)? Who publishes the list of approved phrases?
Take pronouns. Many have no issue at all with putting their preferred pronoun in their email signature, yet for others its ridiculous.
I've just completed a Health and Wellbeing survey at work. For Gender the choices were Male, Female, Non-binary and Queer. This was new to me - what the hell is Queer as a gender?
Woke language moves on, just as business speak does. Its created by 'in-speak' - if you are speaking the right way then you fit in with the herd.
It is a word to describe the radical and intolerant progressivism seen over the last decade or so, but it is contested so best to put it in speech marks.
It is easy to gain an understanding of "woke" if you substitute "political correctness gone mad" in its place.
It isn't really madness as such, madness is benign and excusable.
It is an obsession with rapid social change that seeks to escape doubt and criticism, which therefore goes unexamined and then results in perverse and dystopian outcomes. IE: anti-racism turning in to racism; gay rights turning in to the persecution of homosexuals; womens rights turning in to rights to abuse women, etc. child protection turning in to child abuse, freedom turning in to tyranny etc.
The same thing will now probably happen with the right , who speedwalk their own version of woke. I expect the first thing to go will be the commitment to 'free speech'.
If we're talking about child abuse, can we return to Matt Gaetz as Attorney General?!
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
There is a hadith that goes: خَمْسٌ فَوَاسِقُ يُقْتَلْنَ فِي الْحَرَمِ الْفَأْرَةُ وَالْعَقْرَبُ وَالْحُدَيَّا وَالْغُرَابُ وَالْكَلْبُ الْعَقُورُ
“Five are the vicious and harmful things which should be killed even within the precincts of Haram: rats, scorpions, crows, kites and mad dogs.”
So, indeed, no, Islam is not a pro-dog religion. It is however a very pro-cat religion. Mohammed had a pet cat Muezza and, in one story, cut off the sleeve of his garment rather than disturb Muezza when he had to go pray. (However, the authenticity of this story is not widely accepted.) In another story, someone saw Muezza drinking from the fountain set aside for ablutions before prayers. This was reported to Mohammed, who replied, “Cats have the cleanest mouths”. In yet another story, while Mohammed was praying, a cat killed a serpent that was going to attack him. Mohammed rewarded the cat, and all cats, by blessing them with the ability to land on their feet.
Tabby cats have an M marking on their foreheads. Some say this was a gift from Mohammed, but then there's the Catholic story that a tabby cat got too close to Jesus's crib and Mary lightly pushed it away by touching its forehead, leaving the M mark forever more. Both of these stories rather over-privilege the Latin alphabet's significance...
Very much enjoying the idea of cats pre-600AD landing 50% on their heads, like jam on toast.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
At university, it's a clear correlation with countries with a history of Alpinism. We had quite a few Japanese students, for example, but otherwise white Europeans and North Americans.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
Not good for the overall reputation of the doggie set.
But then most Brits don't believe in challenging the ASB of others, despite the Peelian Principles ("The police are the public and the public are the police"), so it becomes accepted.
That's the really bizarre thing to me - it's both more effort and worse than just leaving it on the ground. So why do it?
Obviously I don't do it, and like you i have never understood it.
Is there no one on PB who can explain why people do this?
Yes I can for some of it. If on a long walk where there are no bins they are put by to be collected on return and sometimes forgotten. In fact on the Surrey Hills they have put some hooks up in the car parks to do this. On one of our walks there used to be a dog bin on the walk just before a cafe so you didn't have to take it into the cafe or worse throw it away in their bin which would otherwise be paper cups and plates. Annoyingly it has been removed, so we leave the plastic bag outside and pick it up when we leave.
However I don't think that explains it all by any means and it is certainly very unpleasant to come across.
John Bolton, who is a staggeringly dumb warmonger, being against someone is a great sign!
Gaetz will be great.
So the US has elected a President who is a convicted felon who has nominated in turn an AG being investigated into allegations of sexual misconduct, illicit drug use and misuse of campaign funds.
Well nobody can say the US does not give ex offenders a second chance
Anyone can just come out with an allegation though. One of the most idiotic things about the current culture is that an allegation is sufficient to permanently remove someone from public life.
I expect that concern about this phenomena is widespread and behind a lot of support for Trump.
Oh come off it we have all witnessed some of Trump's crimes. Now I know due justice needs to be done and a crime tried in front an impartial jury, but are you serious?
And I would point out he has actually been found guilty in such a court by his peers for some of these crimes. He is only not going to jail because he has been elected president.
Which itself wouldn't have happened had Congress done its job and impeached him the second time.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
At university, it's a clear correlation with countries with a history of Alpinism. We had quite a few Japanese students, for example, but otherwise white Europeans and North Americans.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
The Charedi community also regards dogs as unclean, and many will go out of their way to avoid coming into contact with one (crossing the street, or standing in a doorway to let it pass, etc). And, of course, Afro-Caribbeans historically tended to be wary of dogs but I don't think that's down to any sort of actual taboo as such.
I personally don't find dogs to be much of a problem in rural settings - it's more often urban parks and narrow paths where they're not kept under proper control. But I can definitely see how the "outdoors = dogs jumping up on you" association could be formed, so I don't think there's any harm in exploring ways to reassure people that the countryside isn't always like that.
I have sometimes been chased by, or barked at loudly, by dogs when out on my bike. Even chased by a Greyhound once in Chester Park who I realised I would never outrun but, thankfully, after I stopped and shouted “Fuck off” at it off it fucked.
But these have been in parks and on roads not in the countryside. similar to your experience.
A few months back I was running across our local playing fields (where dogs are banned) when an aggressive mid-sized dog came running up to me and nipped my leg. The owner slowly sauntered up, put the barking little shit onto a lead, and said: "It's just trying to protect me."
Going back to yesterday's conversation, dog owners like that should be put down.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
There is a hadith that goes: خَمْسٌ فَوَاسِقُ يُقْتَلْنَ فِي الْحَرَمِ الْفَأْرَةُ وَالْعَقْرَبُ وَالْحُدَيَّا وَالْغُرَابُ وَالْكَلْبُ الْعَقُورُ
“Five are the vicious and harmful things which should be killed even within the precincts of Haram: rats, scorpions, crows, kites and mad dogs.”
So, indeed, no, Islam is not a pro-dog religion. It is however a very pro-cat religion. Mohammed had a pet cat Muezza and, in one story, cut off the sleeve of his garment rather than disturb Muezza when he had to go pray. (However, the authenticity of this story is not widely accepted.) In another story, someone saw Muezza drinking from the fountain set aside for ablutions before prayers. This was reported to Mohammed, who replied, “Cats have the cleanest mouths”. In yet another story, while Mohammed was praying, a cat killed a serpent that was going to attack him. Mohammed rewarded the cat, and all cats, by blessing them with the ability to land on their feet.
Tabby cats have an M marking on their foreheads. Some say this was a gift from Mohammed, but then there's the Catholic story that a tabby cat got too close to Jesus's crib and Mary lightly pushed it away by touching its forehead, leaving the M mark forever more. Both of these stories rather over-privilege the Latin alphabet's significance...
They probably love cats because the dirty little feckers go and shit on other people's lawns. Never their own.
If I ever founded a religion one of its founding principles would be, without getting into the Leon debate about pets, all domestic cat ownership would be verboten.
The demise of Sue Gray’s career has gone pretty unremarked on here which surprises me.
From the lynchpin of Starmer’s new gov lt to wrestle control of the civil service to jumping before she was pushed before she even got to start the job she was pushed into.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
At university, it's a clear correlation with countries with a history of Alpinism. We had quite a few Japanese students, for example, but otherwise white Europeans and North Americans.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I'd support that. I often feel unsafe around dogs, particularly after COVID. Our local mini-park is basically unusable for reading in peace or giving children somewhere safe to run about. That's a disaster in an area dominated by tenements and a lack of green space.
These are just normal people voicing concerns that many white people are probably too scared to bring up. Dog owners are noisy opponents.
It is utter nonsense.
We live adjoining a park and speak to all the many dog owners who go past our home to exercise them in the park and they are responsible and in 49 years living here there has not been one adverse incident re any dog
I should say we have never owned a dog ourselves
My mother in law got mildly bitten by a dog when she last visited us. She is scared of dogs, and no doubt it senses that.
Not everyone loves dogs and yet most dog owners expect everyone else to love theirs and if they don't then, well, that's their problem.
There are far too many of them, lots poorly trained, and far too often not on a lead.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
Not good for the overall reputation of the doggie set.
But then most Brits don't believe in challenging the ASB of others, despite the Peelian Principles ("The police are the public and the public are the police"), so it becomes accepted.
If you try and challenge the ASB of others you will get a mouthful of abuse. Or worse.
The demise of Sue Gray’s career has gone pretty unremarked on here which surprises me.
From the lynchpin of Starmer’s new gov lt to wrestle control of the civil service to jumping before she was pushed before she even got to start the job she was pushed into.
She managed to get herself blackballed across much of the Civil Service and chunks of the Labour Party.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
The Charedi community also regards dogs as unclean, and many will go out of their way to avoid coming into contact with one (crossing the street, or standing in a doorway to let it pass, etc). And, of course, Afro-Caribbeans historically tended to be wary of dogs but I don't think that's down to any sort of actual taboo as such.
I personally don't find dogs to be much of a problem in rural settings - it's more often urban parks and narrow paths where they're not kept under proper control. But I can definitely see how the "outdoors = dogs jumping up on you" association could be formed, so I don't think there's any harm in exploring ways to reassure people that the countryside isn't always like that.
I have sometimes been chased by, or barked at loudly, by dogs when out on my bike. Even chased by a Greyhound once in Chester Park who I realised I would never outrun but, thankfully, after I stopped and shouted “Fuck off” at it off it fucked.
But these have been in parks and on roads not in the countryside. similar to your experience.
A few months back I was running across our local playing fields (where dogs are banned) when an aggressive mid-sized dog came running up to me and nipped my leg. The owner slowly sauntered up, put the barking little shit onto a lead, and said: "It's just trying to protect me."
Going back to yesterday's conversation, dog owners like that should be put down.
That's quite a serious offence. The question is whether it's a toddler next, with a face and neck much closer to the dog's level.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
Interesting discussion - but can I please just go back to this near-start to ask what the fish is about? News to me ...
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
The Charedi community also regards dogs as unclean, and many will go out of their way to avoid coming into contact with one (crossing the street, or standing in a doorway to let it pass, etc). And, of course, Afro-Caribbeans historically tended to be wary of dogs but I don't think that's down to any sort of actual taboo as such.
I personally don't find dogs to be much of a problem in rural settings - it's more often urban parks and narrow paths where they're not kept under proper control. But I can definitely see how the "outdoors = dogs jumping up on you" association could be formed, so I don't think there's any harm in exploring ways to reassure people that the countryside isn't always like that.
I have sometimes been chased by, or barked at loudly, by dogs when out on my bike. Even chased by a Greyhound once in Chester Park who I realised I would never outrun but, thankfully, after I stopped and shouted “Fuck off” at it off it fucked.
But these have been in parks and on roads not in the countryside. similar to your experience.
A few months back I was running across our local playing fields (where dogs are banned) when an aggressive mid-sized dog came running up to me and nipped my leg. The owner slowly sauntered up, put the barking little shit onto a lead, and said: "It's just trying to protect me."
Going back to yesterday's conversation, dog owners like that should be put down.
I think Musk is vastly overrated as a successful business person.
The only business he’s ran entirely himself is X which has from the perspective of a company, been a disaster.
Tesla - didn’t start and arguably stole it
Space X - didn’t start and doesn’t run it day to day
PayPal - got kicked out for being a loon and wanting to call it X
So its just luck that he is rich beyond imagination? You don't have to like someone to recognise that they have been very successful.
It is surely not controversial to think that luck plays the biggest part in becoming a billionaire? To what extent is debatable but it would seem quite absurd to think it is mostly down to "brilliance" or "hard work". There are far more brilliant and hard working non billionaires.
To become a billionaire in one venture might be down to luck (albeit still luck allied to judgement, hard work, insight and acumen - which are always essential components unless it's pure patronage. and even then there will have to be reasons for patronage on that scale). But to put the building of three such ventures down to luck is absurd and flies in the face of both facts and statistics.
Maybe we mean different things by luck. There are far more equally brilliant and hard working non billionaires than billionaires. So to end up in the billionaire category is luck. That does not deny you have to be good at something in the first place, just that being good doesn't normally equate to becoming a billionaire.
That's a false logic to assume that 'being brilliant' should naturally lead to becoming a billionaire. It doesn't. Apart from anything else, there are many ways to interpret brilliance and only a few of them lead to great riches - either if you have a directly and globally marketable quality (which only a tiny number of others, at most, share), or an ability to leverage an idea into wealth, which takes a lot more than just coming up with the idea, or finding a way to exploit someone else's. In that second case - in business, essentially - it also takes leadership, unless you have an extraordinary patent. And many who are brilliant at one thing are not great leaders: they would rather sell their brilliance for a decent and guaranteed return than bid for higher returns (or nothing) by doing it themselves.
Even if you have a patent that underpins a great product you need to be very smart to get value from it.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
At university, it's a clear correlation with countries with a history of Alpinism. We had quite a few Japanese students, for example, but otherwise white Europeans and North Americans.
Nearly 8,000 people have done them (including me!)
Asians walking in the countryside is definitely A Thing in the West Pennines. The ethnic mix on Rivington Pike tends in my experience to be significantly more Asian than the adjacent town of Horwich - suggesting that Asians from mildly further afield Bolton are making the trip. And Pendle Hill always has a few Asians on it, as you would hope with the large Asian population in Burnley and Nelson. This strikes me as quite a new thing. When I first noticed the phenomenon a few years ago there was definitely a feel of Asian walkers experiencing the joys of their rural hinterland for the first time. I enjoyed a little eavesdropping, and was very pleased by the delight and surprise expressed that the experience was so worthwhile and rewarding. The numbers of Asian walkers in these areas (note - this is pure anecdata) seems to be increasing, but the first-time-wonder seems rarer - people have clearly been keen to repeat the experience. Which is very satisfying.
Most walkers are people who have been doing this sort of thing for years. I do it because I grew up doing it. There's probably a lag of at least 30 years, possibly more, until the ethnic make-up of people using the countryside for recreation reflects that of the people in the country as a whole.
(Another example recently: I was at the Ingleton Waterfall Trail in the Yorkshire Dales, where we kept passing and being passed by a large group of around 30 young men all in traditional Muslim clothing - including one who, being white and ginger, strikes me as unlikely to have grown up Muslim. Possibly from Bradford or Keighley by the accents.)
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
The Charedi community also regards dogs as unclean, and many will go out of their way to avoid coming into contact with one (crossing the street, or standing in a doorway to let it pass, etc). And, of course, Afro-Caribbeans historically tended to be wary of dogs but I don't think that's down to any sort of actual taboo as such.
I personally don't find dogs to be much of a problem in rural settings - it's more often urban parks and narrow paths where they're not kept under proper control. But I can definitely see how the "outdoors = dogs jumping up on you" association could be formed, so I don't think there's any harm in exploring ways to reassure people that the countryside isn't always like that.
I have sometimes been chased by, or barked at loudly, by dogs when out on my bike. Even chased by a Greyhound once in Chester Park who I realised I would never outrun but, thankfully, after I stopped and shouted “Fuck off” at it off it fucked.
But these have been in parks and on roads not in the countryside. similar to your experience.
A few months back I was running across our local playing fields (where dogs are banned) when an aggressive mid-sized dog came running up to me and nipped my leg. The owner slowly sauntered up, put the barking little shit onto a lead, and said: "It's just trying to protect me."
Going back to yesterday's conversation, dog owners like that should be put down.
That's quite a serious offence. The question is whether it's a toddler next, with a face and neck much closer to the dog's level.
It was the sheer unapologetic nature of the 'owner' that amused me. With women, it's usually: "Oh, my dear little bumpkns doesn't usually act that way..."
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
The Charedi community also regards dogs as unclean, and many will go out of their way to avoid coming into contact with one (crossing the street, or standing in a doorway to let it pass, etc). And, of course, Afro-Caribbeans historically tended to be wary of dogs but I don't think that's down to any sort of actual taboo as such.
I personally don't find dogs to be much of a problem in rural settings - it's more often urban parks and narrow paths where they're not kept under proper control. But I can definitely see how the "outdoors = dogs jumping up on you" association could be formed, so I don't think there's any harm in exploring ways to reassure people that the countryside isn't always like that.
I have sometimes been chased by, or barked at loudly, by dogs when out on my bike. Even chased by a Greyhound once in Chester Park who I realised I would never outrun but, thankfully, after I stopped and shouted “Fuck off” at it off it fucked.
But these have been in parks and on roads not in the countryside. similar to your experience.
A few months back I was running across our local playing fields (where dogs are banned) when an aggressive mid-sized dog came running up to me and nipped my leg. The owner slowly sauntered up, put the barking little shit onto a lead, and said: "It's just trying to protect me."
Going back to yesterday's conversation, dog owners like that should be put down.
Or "it's just his way of showing he likes you."
You could bite his arm too and say, I like you too!
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
At university, it's a clear correlation with countries with a history of Alpinism. We had quite a few Japanese students, for example, but otherwise white Europeans and North Americans.
Nearly 8,000 people have done them (including me!)
Asians walking in the countryside is definitely A Thing in the West Pennines. The ethnic mix on Rivington Pike tends in my experience to be significantly more Asian than the adjacent town of Horwich - suggesting that Asians from mildly further afield Bolton are making the trip. And Pendle Hill always has a few Asians on it, as you would hope with the large Asian population in Burnley and Nelson. This strikes me as quite a new thing. When I first noticed the phenomenon a few years ago there was definitely a feel of Asian walkers experiencing the joys of their rural hinterland for the first time. I enjoyed a little eavesdropping, and was very pleased by the delight and surprise expressed that the experience was so worthwhile and rewarding. The numbers of Asian walkers in these areas (note - this is pure anecdata) seems to be increasing, but the first-time-wonder seems rarer - people have clearly been keen to repeat the experience. Which is very satisfying.
Most walkers are people who have been doing this sort of thing for years. I do it because I grew up doing it. There's probably a lag of at least 30 years, possibly more, until the ethnic make-up of people using the countryside for recreation reflects that of the people in the country as a whole.
(Another example recently: I was at the Ingleton Waterfall Trail in the Yorkshire Dales, where we kept passing and being passed by a large group of around 30 young men all in traditional Muslim clothing - including one who, being white and ginger, strikes me as unlikely to have grown up Muslim. Possibly from Bradford or Keighley by the accents.)
Dunno if anyone on PB has noticed, it may be very new, but look who the convenor of the Ramblers is:
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
The Charedi community also regards dogs as unclean, and many will go out of their way to avoid coming into contact with one (crossing the street, or standing in a doorway to let it pass, etc). And, of course, Afro-Caribbeans historically tended to be wary of dogs but I don't think that's down to any sort of actual taboo as such.
I personally don't find dogs to be much of a problem in rural settings - it's more often urban parks and narrow paths where they're not kept under proper control. But I can definitely see how the "outdoors = dogs jumping up on you" association could be formed, so I don't think there's any harm in exploring ways to reassure people that the countryside isn't always like that.
I have sometimes been chased by, or barked at loudly, by dogs when out on my bike. Even chased by a Greyhound once in Chester Park who I realised I would never outrun but, thankfully, after I stopped and shouted “Fuck off” at it off it fucked.
But these have been in parks and on roads not in the countryside. similar to your experience.
A few months back I was running across our local playing fields (where dogs are banned) when an aggressive mid-sized dog came running up to me and nipped my leg. The owner slowly sauntered up, put the barking little shit onto a lead, and said: "It's just trying to protect me."
Going back to yesterday's conversation, dog owners like that should be put down.
That's quite a serious offence. The question is whether it's a toddler next, with a face and neck much closer to the dog's level.
It was the sheer unapologetic nature of the 'owner' that amused me. With women, it's usually: "Oh, my dear little bumpkns doesn't usually act that way..."
I must say that I would be wary of getting out my mobey and filming the pooch with a view to reporting to the police. The chap, by definition, has an offensive weapon out already.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
At university, it's a clear correlation with countries with a history of Alpinism. We had quite a few Japanese students, for example, but otherwise white Europeans and North Americans.
Nearly 8,000 people have done them (including me!)
That second para doesn't surprise me, on reflection. Aside from the physical challenge, doing all the munros is a massive logistical exercise - difficult even if you live in Inverness; remarkably difficult if you're from the Central Belt; almost impossible if you're from further south. It's doable from England but it takes a helluva lot of commitment over years to get that far north again and again and again. The number of black people there are within easy reach of the munros is very small. The number of black people within easy reach of the munros who grew up with hillwalking as a hobby and therefore have the mindset of that's what you do with the outdoors is even smaller.
Of all the regrets of my life, the biggest is that I didn't dedicate more of my life before I was a parent to this particular challenge.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
At university, it's a clear correlation with countries with a history of Alpinism. We had quite a few Japanese students, for example, but otherwise white Europeans and North Americans.
Nearly 8,000 people have done them (including me!)
Asians walking in the countryside is definitely A Thing in the West Pennines. The ethnic mix on Rivington Pike tends in my experience to be significantly more Asian than the adjacent town of Horwich - suggesting that Asians from mildly further afield Bolton are making the trip. And Pendle Hill always has a few Asians on it, as you would hope with the large Asian population in Burnley and Nelson. This strikes me as quite a new thing. When I first noticed the phenomenon a few years ago there was definitely a feel of Asian walkers experiencing the joys of their rural hinterland for the first time. I enjoyed a little eavesdropping, and was very pleased by the delight and surprise expressed that the experience was so worthwhile and rewarding. The numbers of Asian walkers in these areas (note - this is pure anecdata) seems to be increasing, but the first-time-wonder seems rarer - people have clearly been keen to repeat the experience. Which is very satisfying.
Most walkers are people who have been doing this sort of thing for years. I do it because I grew up doing it. There's probably a lag of at least 30 years, possibly more, until the ethnic make-up of people using the countryside for recreation reflects that of the people in the country as a whole.
(Another example recently: I was at the Ingleton Waterfall Trail in the Yorkshire Dales, where we kept passing and being passed by a large group of around 30 young men all in traditional Muslim clothing - including one who, being white and ginger, strikes me as unlikely to have grown up Muslim. Possibly from Bradford or Keighley by the accents.)
Dunno if anyone on PB has noticed, it may be very new, but look who the convenor of the Ramblers is:
That's really made me smile - thanks. One of my worries about my advancing age is whether, as my eyesight deteriorates, I will still be able to get enjoyment from walking. Nice to see that it's possible.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
Not good for the overall reputation of the doggie set.
But then most Brits don't believe in challenging the ASB of others, despite the Peelian Principles ("The police are the public and the public are the police"), so it becomes accepted.
That's the really bizarre thing to me - it's both more effort and worse than just leaving it on the ground. So why do it?
Obviously I don't do it, and like you i have never understood it.
Is there no one on PB who can explain why people do this?
Yes I can for some of it. If on a long walk where there are no bins they are put by to be collected on return and sometimes forgotten. In fact on the Surrey Hills they have put some hooks up in the car parks to do this. On one of our walks there used to be a dog bin on the walk just before a cafe so you didn't have to take it into the cafe or worse throw it away in their bin which would otherwise be paper cups and plates. Annoyingly it has been removed, so we leave the plastic bag outside and pick it up when we leave.
However I don't think that explains it all by any means and it is certainly very unpleasant to come across.
The modern equivalent of the clootie tree by a rag well. Alas.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
There is a hadith that goes: خَمْسٌ فَوَاسِقُ يُقْتَلْنَ فِي الْحَرَمِ الْفَأْرَةُ وَالْعَقْرَبُ وَالْحُدَيَّا وَالْغُرَابُ وَالْكَلْبُ الْعَقُورُ
“Five are the vicious and harmful things which should be killed even within the precincts of Haram: rats, scorpions, crows, kites and mad dogs.”
So, indeed, no, Islam is not a pro-dog religion. It is however a very pro-cat religion. Mohammed had a pet cat Muezza and, in one story, cut off the sleeve of his garment rather than disturb Muezza when he had to go pray. (However, the authenticity of this story is not widely accepted.) In another story, someone saw Muezza drinking from the fountain set aside for ablutions before prayers. This was reported to Mohammed, who replied, “Cats have the cleanest mouths”. In yet another story, while Mohammed was praying, a cat killed a serpent that was going to attack him. Mohammed rewarded the cat, and all cats, by blessing them with the ability to land on their feet.
Tabby cats have an M marking on their foreheads. Some say this was a gift from Mohammed, but then there's the Catholic story that a tabby cat got too close to Jesus's crib and Mary lightly pushed it away by touching its forehead, leaving the M mark forever more. Both of these stories rather over-privilege the Latin alphabet's significance...
They probably love cats because the dirty little feckers go and shit on other people's lawns. Never their own.
If I ever founded a religion one of its founding principles would be, without getting into the Leon debate about pets, all domestic cat ownership would be verboten.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
At university, it's a clear correlation with countries with a history of Alpinism. We had quite a few Japanese students, for example, but otherwise white Europeans and North Americans.
Nearly 8,000 people have done them (including me!)
Not me yet - due to being somewhat hamstrung - so still have about 80 to do, despite it now being - eek - 34 years since my first. A large proportion were done on winter trips which does add to the 'fun'. Mrs Flatlander is one down due to (sensibly) refusing a heavily rimed tor on Beinn Mheadhoin.
But I've not met much diversity out there.
My University club was similar, although I did take someone by the name of Kenneth Kaunda up Snowdon, sorry, Yr Wyddfa, in knee deep slush one February. I assume it was a popular name in Zambia at the time.
Still, it had a better ratio than the golf club...
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
The Charedi community also regards dogs as unclean, and many will go out of their way to avoid coming into contact with one (crossing the street, or standing in a doorway to let it pass, etc). And, of course, Afro-Caribbeans historically tended to be wary of dogs but I don't think that's down to any sort of actual taboo as such.
I personally don't find dogs to be much of a problem in rural settings - it's more often urban parks and narrow paths where they're not kept under proper control. But I can definitely see how the "outdoors = dogs jumping up on you" association could be formed, so I don't think there's any harm in exploring ways to reassure people that the countryside isn't always like that.
I have sometimes been chased by, or barked at loudly, by dogs when out on my bike. Even chased by a Greyhound once in Chester Park who I realised I would never outrun but, thankfully, after I stopped and shouted “Fuck off” at it off it fucked.
But these have been in parks and on roads not in the countryside. similar to your experience.
A few months back I was running across our local playing fields (where dogs are banned) when an aggressive mid-sized dog came running up to me and nipped my leg. The owner slowly sauntered up, put the barking little shit onto a lead, and said: "It's just trying to protect me."
Going back to yesterday's conversation, dog owners like that should be put down.
Or "it's just his way of showing he likes you."
You've just reignited a memory which makes me increasingly angry as I get older. When I was 10, I was walking along the main road towards the sweet shop in the unremarkable middle class suburb where I grew up, and a woman and a dog - an Alsatian - on a lead were coming the other way. I spied the dog, and was instinctively wary, but told myself that the dog was on a lead so there was nothing to worry about. As I passed it, it leapt at me, knocking me over and raking its teeth down my back. My memory is fairly hazy, but I think my reaction was to curl myself into a ball and cry and hope the owner pulled the dog off. Which, she did. Fortunately, the mother of a schoolfriend was coming the other way, and saw the incident, saw me, helped me up, took me to the sweet shop and used the phone there o call my parents, who came and collected me and took me to hospital to get it checked out (no stitches needed, just a clean up and a tetanus shot). She did challenge the owner of the dog, who apparently replied that I shouldn't have gone so close to the dog - but honestly, as schoolfriend's mum said to me, I was as far from the dog as a six foot pavement with a wall on one side would allow. God, I was ten. The dog was bigger than I was. If that happened to my ten year old daughter I would be incandescent.
John Bolton, who is a staggeringly dumb warmonger, being against someone is a great sign!
Gaetz will be great.
So the US has elected a President who is a convicted felon who has nominated in turn an AG being investigated into allegations of sexual misconduct, illicit drug use and misuse of campaign funds.
Well nobody can say the US does not give ex offenders a second chance
Anyone can just come out with an allegation though. One of the most idiotic things about the current culture is that an allegation is sufficient to permanently remove someone from public life.
I expect that concern about this phenomena is widespread and behind a lot of support for Trump.
Oh come off it we have all witnessed some of Trump's crimes. Now I know due justice needs to be done and a crime tried in front an impartial jury, but are you serious?
And I would point out he has actually been found guilty in such a court by his peers for some of these crimes. He is only not going to jail because he has been elected president.
Which itself wouldn't have happened had Congress done its job and impeached him the second time.
They did impeach him twice.
Yes. Apologies. I meant the Senate should have convicted the second impeachment.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
The Charedi community also regards dogs as unclean, and many will go out of their way to avoid coming into contact with one (crossing the street, or standing in a doorway to let it pass, etc). And, of course, Afro-Caribbeans historically tended to be wary of dogs but I don't think that's down to any sort of actual taboo as such.
I personally don't find dogs to be much of a problem in rural settings - it's more often urban parks and narrow paths where they're not kept under proper control. But I can definitely see how the "outdoors = dogs jumping up on you" association could be formed, so I don't think there's any harm in exploring ways to reassure people that the countryside isn't always like that.
I have sometimes been chased by, or barked at loudly, by dogs when out on my bike. Even chased by a Greyhound once in Chester Park who I realised I would never outrun but, thankfully, after I stopped and shouted “Fuck off” at it off it fucked.
But these have been in parks and on roads not in the countryside. similar to your experience.
A few months back I was running across our local playing fields (where dogs are banned) when an aggressive mid-sized dog came running up to me and nipped my leg. The owner slowly sauntered up, put the barking little shit onto a lead, and said: "It's just trying to protect me."
Going back to yesterday's conversation, dog owners like that should be put down.
Or "it's just his way of showing he likes you."
You've just reignited a memory which makes me increasingly angry as I get older. When I was 10, I was walking along the main road towards the sweet shop in the unremarkable middle class suburb where I grew up, and a woman and a dog - an Alsatian - on a lead were coming the other way. I spied the dog, and was instinctively wary, but told myself that the dog was on a lead so there was nothing to worry about. As I passed it, it leapt at me, knocking me over and raking its teeth down my back. My memory is fairly hazy, but I think my reaction was to curl myself into a ball and cry and hope the owner pulled the dog off. Which, she did. Fortunately, the mother of a schoolfriend was coming the other way, and saw the incident, saw me, helped me up, took me to the sweet shop and used the phone there o call my parents, who came and collected me and took me to hospital to get it checked out (no stitches needed, just a clean up and a tetanus shot). She did challenge the owner of the dog, who apparently replied that I shouldn't have gone so close to the dog - but honestly, as schoolfriend's mum said to me, I was as far from the dog as a six foot pavement with a wall on one side would allow. God, I was ten. The dog was bigger than I was. If that happened to my ten year old daughter I would be incandescent.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
Interesting discussion - but can I please just go back to this near-start to ask what the fish is about? News to me ...
It's a note that Eastern Europeans tend to eat fish rather than putting them back, whereas in the UK there are fairly intricate regulations. That's something to do with who has real rivers and lakes as opposed to scale models of rivers and lakes !
If you add in the tradition from say Czechia or Poland of having a carp to eat for Christmas, and place it against those interesting people who spend their lives catching ever larger carp and putting them back in lakes, rather than say bagging Munros or photographing all the stained glass windows in Derbyshire, you can see the potential for a clash. They keep them in the bath for a time, which is I assume about making it less "muddy" to taste.
I was quite surprised to find out just the extent of "carps for Christmas" are ordered in our local Morrisons. We have lots of local Poles now - it's the second announcement language at my GP.
John Bolton, who is a staggeringly dumb warmonger, being against someone is a great sign!
Gaetz will be great.
So the US has elected a President who is a convicted felon who has nominated in turn an AG being investigated into allegations of sexual misconduct, illicit drug use and misuse of campaign funds.
Well nobody can say the US does not give ex offenders a second chance
Anyone can just come out with an allegation though. One of the most idiotic things about the current culture is that an allegation is sufficient to permanently remove someone from public life.
I expect that concern about this phenomena is widespread and behind a lot of support for Trump.
Oh come off it we have all witnessed some of Trump's crimes. Now I know due justice needs to be done and a crime tried in front an impartial jury, but are you serious?
And I would point out he has actually been found guilty in such a court by his peers for some of these crimes. He is only not going to jail because he has been elected president.
Which itself wouldn't have happened had Congress done its job and impeached him the second time.
They did impeach him twice.
Yes. Apologies. I meant the Senate should have convicted the second impeachment.
Incidentally, a friend and I were attacked by a Doberman in a pub when I was *much* younger. My friend had to have stitches in his nose, and I got a slight slash on my arm.
I won't go into more details, but the friend was jokingly known as 'Doberman nose' after that. And I haven't liked big dogs since. which is a bit of a problem, as both my brother and sister keep big dogs.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
Interesting discussion - but can I please just go back to this near-start to ask what the fish is about? News to me ...
It's a note that Eastern Europeans tend to eat fish rather than putting them back, whereas in the UK there are fairly intricate regulations. That's something to do with who has real rivers !
If you add in the tradition from say Czechia or Poland of having a carp to eat for Christmas, and place it against those interesting people who spend their lives catching ever larger carp and putting them back in lakes, rather than say bagging Munros or photographing all the stained glass windows in Derbyshire, you can see the potential for a clash.
I was quite surprised to find out just the extent of "carps for Christmas" are ordered in our local Morrisons. We have lots of local Poles now - it's the second announcement language at my GP.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
Interesting discussion - but can I please just go back to this near-start to ask what the fish is about? News to me ...
It's a note that Eastern Europeans tend to eat fish rather than putting them back, whereas in the UK there are fairly intricate regulations. That's something to do with who has real rivers and lakes as opposed to scale models of rivers and lakes !
If you add in the tradition from say Czechia or Poland of having a carp to eat for Christmas, and place it against those interesting people who spend their lives catching ever larger carp and putting them back in lakes, rather than say bagging Munros or photographing all the stained glass windows in Derbyshire, you can see the potential for a clash. They keep them in the bath for a time, which is I assume about making it less "muddy" to taste.
I was quite surprised to find out just the extent of "carps for Christmas" are ordered in our local Morrisons. We have lots of local Poles now - it's the second announcement language at my GP.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
The Charedi community also regards dogs as unclean, and many will go out of their way to avoid coming into contact with one (crossing the street, or standing in a doorway to let it pass, etc). And, of course, Afro-Caribbeans historically tended to be wary of dogs but I don't think that's down to any sort of actual taboo as such.
I personally don't find dogs to be much of a problem in rural settings - it's more often urban parks and narrow paths where they're not kept under proper control. But I can definitely see how the "outdoors = dogs jumping up on you" association could be formed, so I don't think there's any harm in exploring ways to reassure people that the countryside isn't always like that.
I have sometimes been chased by, or barked at loudly, by dogs when out on my bike. Even chased by a Greyhound once in Chester Park who I realised I would never outrun but, thankfully, after I stopped and shouted “Fuck off” at it off it fucked.
But these have been in parks and on roads not in the countryside. similar to your experience.
A few months back I was running across our local playing fields (where dogs are banned) when an aggressive mid-sized dog came running up to me and nipped my leg. The owner slowly sauntered up, put the barking little shit onto a lead, and said: "It's just trying to protect me."
Going back to yesterday's conversation, dog owners like that should be put down.
Or "it's just his way of showing he likes you."
You've just reignited a memory which makes me increasingly angry as I get older. When I was 10, I was walking along the main road towards the sweet shop in the unremarkable middle class suburb where I grew up, and a woman and a dog - an Alsatian - on a lead were coming the other way. I spied the dog, and was instinctively wary, but told myself that the dog was on a lead so there was nothing to worry about. As I passed it, it leapt at me, knocking me over and raking its teeth down my back. My memory is fairly hazy, but I think my reaction was to curl myself into a ball and cry and hope the owner pulled the dog off. Which, she did. Fortunately, the mother of a schoolfriend was coming the other way, and saw the incident, saw me, helped me up, took me to the sweet shop and used the phone there o call my parents, who came and collected me and took me to hospital to get it checked out (no stitches needed, just a clean up and a tetanus shot). She did challenge the owner of the dog, who apparently replied that I shouldn't have gone so close to the dog - but honestly, as schoolfriend's mum said to me, I was as far from the dog as a six foot pavement with a wall on one side would allow. God, I was ten. The dog was bigger than I was. If that happened to my ten year old daughter I would be incandescent.
The past is a different country I'm afraid...
My eyes were licked by a poodle when I was about 4 or 5.
It took me the best part of 4 decades to be much less nervous around dogs, and the attentions over several years of a tenant who at that point had 9 of them.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
The Charedi community also regards dogs as unclean, and many will go out of their way to avoid coming into contact with one (crossing the street, or standing in a doorway to let it pass, etc). And, of course, Afro-Caribbeans historically tended to be wary of dogs but I don't think that's down to any sort of actual taboo as such.
I personally don't find dogs to be much of a problem in rural settings - it's more often urban parks and narrow paths where they're not kept under proper control. But I can definitely see how the "outdoors = dogs jumping up on you" association could be formed, so I don't think there's any harm in exploring ways to reassure people that the countryside isn't always like that.
I have sometimes been chased by, or barked at loudly, by dogs when out on my bike. Even chased by a Greyhound once in Chester Park who I realised I would never outrun but, thankfully, after I stopped and shouted “Fuck off” at it off it fucked.
But these have been in parks and on roads not in the countryside. similar to your experience.
A few months back I was running across our local playing fields (where dogs are banned) when an aggressive mid-sized dog came running up to me and nipped my leg. The owner slowly sauntered up, put the barking little shit onto a lead, and said: "It's just trying to protect me."
Going back to yesterday's conversation, dog owners like that should be put down.
Or "it's just his way of showing he likes you."
You've just reignited a memory which makes me increasingly angry as I get older. When I was 10, I was walking along the main road towards the sweet shop in the unremarkable middle class suburb where I grew up, and a woman and a dog - an Alsatian - on a lead were coming the other way. I spied the dog, and was instinctively wary, but told myself that the dog was on a lead so there was nothing to worry about. As I passed it, it leapt at me, knocking me over and raking its teeth down my back. My memory is fairly hazy, but I think my reaction was to curl myself into a ball and cry and hope the owner pulled the dog off. Which, she did. Fortunately, the mother of a schoolfriend was coming the other way, and saw the incident, saw me, helped me up, took me to the sweet shop and used the phone there o call my parents, who came and collected me and took me to hospital to get it checked out (no stitches needed, just a clean up and a tetanus shot). She did challenge the owner of the dog, who apparently replied that I shouldn't have gone so close to the dog - but honestly, as schoolfriend's mum said to me, I was as far from the dog as a six foot pavement with a wall on one side would allow. God, I was ten. The dog was bigger than I was. If that happened to my ten year old daughter I would be incandescent.
The woman was breaking the law and the police should have prosecuted.
The law requires the dog to be under control. It wisely says nothing about leads, since a dog off a lead is not necessarily out of control whereas one on a lead may be, as was the case here.
I should have thought your parents could have brought a private action without difficulty. Might have been worth a few bob, unless the owner was a 'straw man'.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
The Charedi community also regards dogs as unclean, and many will go out of their way to avoid coming into contact with one (crossing the street, or standing in a doorway to let it pass, etc). And, of course, Afro-Caribbeans historically tended to be wary of dogs but I don't think that's down to any sort of actual taboo as such.
I personally don't find dogs to be much of a problem in rural settings - it's more often urban parks and narrow paths where they're not kept under proper control. But I can definitely see how the "outdoors = dogs jumping up on you" association could be formed, so I don't think there's any harm in exploring ways to reassure people that the countryside isn't always like that.
I have sometimes been chased by, or barked at loudly, by dogs when out on my bike. Even chased by a Greyhound once in Chester Park who I realised I would never outrun but, thankfully, after I stopped and shouted “Fuck off” at it off it fucked.
But these have been in parks and on roads not in the countryside. similar to your experience.
A few months back I was running across our local playing fields (where dogs are banned) when an aggressive mid-sized dog came running up to me and nipped my leg. The owner slowly sauntered up, put the barking little shit onto a lead, and said: "It's just trying to protect me."
Going back to yesterday's conversation, dog owners like that should be put down.
That's quite a serious offence. The question is whether it's a toddler next, with a face and neck much closer to the dog's level.
It was the sheer unapologetic nature of the 'owner' that amused me. With women, it's usually: "Oh, my dear little bumpkns doesn't usually act that way..."
That's what's meant by "entitlement" or "entitled", when used by eg disabled people about pavement parkers, or some peds about some people who cycle, and some people who cycle about some people who drive.
(Without diving into a debate I don't have time for today.)
I sometimes (occasionally - twice this year) challenge, the most important being when a drop-kerb blocker was forcing all the hospital visitors wheeling to go 100-150m back down the main drive pavement, get off at the pedestrian crossing and wheel back up the road which carries about 3-5k vehicle movements per day.
That got me a "fuck off you prick". There was an unused parking free space 10m away.
More often I complain to a passer by or driver about somebody *else's* car to avoid personal criticism.
Just got an email from Team Kemi asking me to rejoin the party. Probably won't.
Yeah. I've had one of them. Sadly, it's a no-reply address. I guess I could dig out an actual contact address but have neither the time nor inclination: it's useful to know what they're saying anyway.
There is a bit of a follow back culture, and I'm shipping away at building a profile by following the followers of people who I know form twitter, and occasionally posting something interesting.
House Ethics Committee could release Gaetz investigation findings
The BBC's US partner CBS is now reporting the House Ethics Committee could soon release its report on former Representative Matt Gaetz.
Gaetz, President-elect Donald Trump's pick for attorney general, was the subject of an investigation over allegations of sexual misconduct, bribery and illicit drug use.
Citing three sources familiar with the committee's work, CBS says the committee had planned to hold a vote on whether to make the report public on Friday.
But it reports that, following Gaetz's resignation from Congress, the Committee could decide to follow precedent and release the report without a vote.
Collins and Murkowski could easily vote against Gaetz's confirmation.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
The Charedi community also regards dogs as unclean, and many will go out of their way to avoid coming into contact with one (crossing the street, or standing in a doorway to let it pass, etc). And, of course, Afro-Caribbeans historically tended to be wary of dogs but I don't think that's down to any sort of actual taboo as such.
I personally don't find dogs to be much of a problem in rural settings - it's more often urban parks and narrow paths where they're not kept under proper control. But I can definitely see how the "outdoors = dogs jumping up on you" association could be formed, so I don't think there's any harm in exploring ways to reassure people that the countryside isn't always like that.
I have sometimes been chased by, or barked at loudly, by dogs when out on my bike. Even chased by a Greyhound once in Chester Park who I realised I would never outrun but, thankfully, after I stopped and shouted “Fuck off” at it off it fucked.
But these have been in parks and on roads not in the countryside. similar to your experience.
A few months back I was running across our local playing fields (where dogs are banned) when an aggressive mid-sized dog came running up to me and nipped my leg. The owner slowly sauntered up, put the barking little shit onto a lead, and said: "It's just trying to protect me."
Going back to yesterday's conversation, dog owners like that should be put down.
Or "it's just his way of showing he likes you."
You've just reignited a memory which makes me increasingly angry as I get older. When I was 10, I was walking along the main road towards the sweet shop in the unremarkable middle class suburb where I grew up, and a woman and a dog - an Alsatian - on a lead were coming the other way. I spied the dog, and was instinctively wary, but told myself that the dog was on a lead so there was nothing to worry about. As I passed it, it leapt at me, knocking me over and raking its teeth down my back. My memory is fairly hazy, but I think my reaction was to curl myself into a ball and cry and hope the owner pulled the dog off. Which, she did. Fortunately, the mother of a schoolfriend was coming the other way, and saw the incident, saw me, helped me up, took me to the sweet shop and used the phone there o call my parents, who came and collected me and took me to hospital to get it checked out (no stitches needed, just a clean up and a tetanus shot). She did challenge the owner of the dog, who apparently replied that I shouldn't have gone so close to the dog - but honestly, as schoolfriend's mum said to me, I was as far from the dog as a six foot pavement with a wall on one side would allow. God, I was ten. The dog was bigger than I was. If that happened to my ten year old daughter I would be incandescent.
The woman was breaking the law and the police should have prosecuted.
The law requires the dog to be under control. It wisely says nothing about leads, since a dog off a lead is not necessarily out of control whereas one on a lead may be, as was the case here.
I should have thought your parents could have brought a private action without difficulty. Might have been worth a few bob, unless the owner was a 'straw man'.
I have no idea if there were any repercussions. My mum is not one to make a fuss. AFAIR, once the hospital had patched me up, she took my round to our neighbours - who was a police dog handler who had a house which seemed to be full of Alsatians (there were only three, but it was a small house and they were big dogs) in order that I didn't get any sort of fear of Alsatians. I would have thought, based on my memory of the fella, that the police dog handler might have taken a dim view of the incident and sought some follow up, but if he did it never came to my knowledge, and as I said my mum wasn't one to make a fuss and was generally of the view that dwelling on a thing did no good. I do remember the scars on my back causing some comment the next time I changed for PE. The more I reflect on this incident, the odder it gets. I may ask my parents about it.
Just got an email from Team Kemi asking me to rejoin the party. Probably won't.
Yeah. I've had one of them. Sadly, it's a no-reply address. I guess I could dig out an actual contact address but have neither the time nor inclination: it's useful to know what they're saying anyway.
That's interesting. I had one of those from the Ashfield & Mansfield Conservatives a month ago, who seem to have merged just like the Lib Dems did.
It's from a chap who's name is quite like Squid in one of Leon's expensive restaurants.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
There is a hadith that goes: خَمْسٌ فَوَاسِقُ يُقْتَلْنَ فِي الْحَرَمِ الْفَأْرَةُ وَالْعَقْرَبُ وَالْحُدَيَّا وَالْغُرَابُ وَالْكَلْبُ الْعَقُورُ
“Five are the vicious and harmful things which should be killed even within the precincts of Haram: rats, scorpions, crows, kites and mad dogs.”
So, indeed, no, Islam is not a pro-dog religion. It is however a very pro-cat religion. Mohammed had a pet cat Muezza and, in one story, cut off the sleeve of his garment rather than disturb Muezza when he had to go pray. (However, the authenticity of this story is not widely accepted.) In another story, someone saw Muezza drinking from the fountain set aside for ablutions before prayers. This was reported to Mohammed, who replied, “Cats have the cleanest mouths”. In yet another story, while Mohammed was praying, a cat killed a serpent that was going to attack him. Mohammed rewarded the cat, and all cats, by blessing them with the ability to land on their feet.
Tabby cats have an M marking on their foreheads. Some say this was a gift from Mohammed, but then there's the Catholic story that a tabby cat got too close to Jesus's crib and Mary lightly pushed it away by touching its forehead, leaving the M mark forever more. Both of these stories rather over-privilege the Latin alphabet's significance...
They probably love cats because the dirty little feckers go and shit on other people's lawns. Never their own.
If I ever founded a religion one of its founding principles would be, without getting into the Leon debate about pets, all domestic cat ownership would be verboten.
IIRC there is not a single reference to the domestic cat in the whole of either the Hebrew or the NT scriptures.
On the whole dogs, while mentioned, don't do well. The donkey of Palm Sunday (sadly not of the NT nativity account) does best of all.
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
Interesting discussion - but can I please just go back to this near-start to ask what the fish is about? News to me ...
It's a note that Eastern Europeans tend to eat fish rather than putting them back, whereas in the UK there are fairly intricate regulations. That's something to do with who has real rivers and lakes as opposed to scale models of rivers and lake[snipped for space]
Call to create Dog Free areas in Wales to tackle racism from lobbyists Climate Cymru BAME,
"Climate Cymru BAME group consists of around 20 members made up of students and professionals who haveinterest in environmental preservation and protection, who work with North Wales Africa Society (NWAS), Sub Sahara Advisory Board (SSAP) and the Northwest Wales Climate Action Group.
On the basis of reports provided to date, the Welsh Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to the outdoors created by 'exclusions and racism'
The Government has concluded that ethnic minorities face 'barriers' to outdoor areas created by 'exclusions and racism'.
A separate set of recommendations submitted by the NWAS also called for 'dog-free areas'.
It added that during one of its focus groups, 'one black African female stated that she feels unsafe with the presence of dogs'.
Others also kept 'seeing dog fouling on the floor', the report added.
Barriers to outdoor activities includes the perception that growing food in gardens or allotments is 'dominated by middle-aged white women'. "
I think there is a potential issue here but I don't think it has much to do with dogs much as I'd like to see them banned from lots of places. Nor do I think it has much to do with racism.
You don't normally see a very diverse crowd out walking. This has changed a little in recent years and there are particular hotspots (eg Dovedale, oddly) but generally the outdoors are very pale.
I think this is a little sad in the same way that I think it is a little sad that a lot of people never seem to leave the South and have this idea that there are Dragons everywhere north of Luton.
It seems to be a matter of culture more than anything. Should that be something we want to change, or should it not?
I like the idea of more non-white people hiking, but it seems to be a hobby of people living in rural and the racial mix in the rural is different to those in the urban. I doubt that dogs will change this.
Cultural reactions to do have an impact, including to dogs.
Islam, for example, aiui defines dogs as unclean. I'm not too sure about other cultures - not one I've studied.
If you want a measure of how deep that one runs, consider the amount of work it is taking to impact the hesitancy of Muslim private hire drivers to take guide dogs. There have been Fatwahs by the UK Sharia Council that as working animals Guide Dogs are fine, but the best part of 2 decades later it is still an issue that needs much work.
If you want a parallel, consider different cultural attitudes to eating caught fish between UK traditions and Eastern European traditions.
Another one is where women believe in 'modest' dress, and single sex spaces for exercise. I once heard a fascinating radio show about an Orthodox Jewish netball team.
Traditional British culture has its own taboos, but we tend not to notice them.
You can't really go with "these people must change to follow my culture or eff-off", because this is 2024 not 1954.
There are various projects about addressing walking for ethnic groups - a few years ago one was running in the Lake District, for example.
There is a hadith that goes: خَمْسٌ فَوَاسِقُ يُقْتَلْنَ فِي الْحَرَمِ الْفَأْرَةُ وَالْعَقْرَبُ وَالْحُدَيَّا وَالْغُرَابُ وَالْكَلْبُ الْعَقُورُ
“Five are the vicious and harmful things which should be killed even within the precincts of Haram: rats, scorpions, crows, kites and mad dogs.”
So, indeed, no, Islam is not a pro-dog religion. It is however a very pro-cat religion. Mohammed had a pet cat Muezza and, in one story, cut off the sleeve of his garment rather than disturb Muezza when he had to go pray. (However, the authenticity of this story is not widely accepted.) In another story, someone saw Muezza drinking from the fountain set aside for ablutions before prayers. This was reported to Mohammed, who replied, “Cats have the cleanest mouths”. In yet another story, while Mohammed was praying, a cat killed a serpent that was going to attack him. Mohammed rewarded the cat, and all cats, by blessing them with the ability to land on their feet.
Tabby cats have an M marking on their foreheads. Some say this was a gift from Mohammed, but then there's the Catholic story that a tabby cat got too close to Jesus's crib and Mary lightly pushed it away by touching its forehead, leaving the M mark forever more. Both of these stories rather over-privilege the Latin alphabet's significance...
They probably love cats because the dirty little feckers go and shit on other people's lawns. Never their own.
If I ever founded a religion one of its founding principles would be, without getting into the Leon debate about pets, all domestic cat ownership would be verboten.
IIRC there is not a single reference to the domestic cat in the whole of either the Hebrew or the NT scriptures.
On the whole dogs, while mentioned, don't do well. The donkey of Palm Sunday (sadly not of the NT nativity account) does best of all.
There is a bit of a follow back culture, and I'm shipping away at building a profile by following the followers of people who I know form twitter, and occasionally posting something interesting.
Ten or fifteen years ago, Musk was seen as a hero by many in the green movement. Many of whom also bought his cars when Tesla really needed the sales.
I wonder how they feel now?
There seems to be a big market in bumper stickers along the lines of, "I bought this before we knew Elon was crazy." I think that gives some indication of how they feel.
John Bolton, who is a staggeringly dumb warmonger, being against someone is a great sign!
Gaetz will be great.
So the US has elected a President who is a convicted felon who has nominated in turn an AG being investigated into allegations of sexual misconduct, illicit drug use and misuse of campaign funds.
Well nobody can say the US does not give ex offenders a second chance
Anyone can just come out with an allegation though. One of the most idiotic things about the current culture is that an allegation is sufficient to permanently remove someone from public life.
I expect that concern about this phenomena is widespread and behind a lot of support for Trump.
Comments
I sometimes see such a pooch in one of his videos, that he does not remark on always - fair enough.
But I ride cycles so I have to keep an eye out for the lead between the politely sat down hound on one side of the path, and the owner on the other. Otherwise it can easily be arse-over-tip.
Dan Scavino: deputy chief of staff
Stephen Miller: deputy chief for policy + homeland security advisor
James Blair: deputy chief for legislative, political + public affairs
Taylor Budowich: deputy chief for comms + personnel
https://x.com/jbendery/status/1856726845615444209
Well nobody can say the US does not give ex offenders a second chance
It's meant to be continous to keep the ignorant onside and close down debate.
We already have pricks casting envious glances at totalitarian states and wondering if democracy has run its course.
I expect that concern about this phenomena is widespread and behind a lot of support for Trump.
Is there no one on PB who can explain why people do this?
... next time it's one of his biannual Muslim days
But these have been in parks and on roads not in the countryside. similar to your experience.
On the other hand, they are essentially independent businesses in the sense of creating wholly independent products - and all became world-leading from a minimal or non-existent base. That's more than coincidence.
And I would point out he has actually been found guilty in such a court by his peers for some of these crimes. He is only not going to jail because he has been elected president.
“Five are the vicious and harmful things which should be killed even within the precincts of Haram: rats, scorpions, crows, kites and mad dogs.”
So, indeed, no, Islam is not a pro-dog religion. It is however a very pro-cat religion. Mohammed had a pet cat Muezza and, in one story, cut off the sleeve of his garment rather than disturb Muezza when he had to go pray. (However, the authenticity of this story is not widely accepted.) In another story, someone saw Muezza drinking from the fountain set aside for ablutions before prayers. This was reported to Mohammed, who replied, “Cats have the cleanest mouths”. In yet another story, while Mohammed was praying, a cat killed a serpent that was going to attack him. Mohammed rewarded the cat, and all cats, by blessing them with the ability to land on their feet.
Tabby cats have an M marking on their foreheads. Some say this was a gift from Mohammed, but then there's the Catholic story that a tabby cat got too close to Jesus's crib and Mary lightly pushed it away by touching its forehead, leaving the M mark forever more. Both of these stories rather over-privilege the Latin alphabet's significance...
Astonished to find that only one black man had climbed all the Munros: https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/embrace-the-outdoors-says-first-black-man-to-climb-all-282-munros-lt6m9fsvt
Nearly 8,000 people have done them (including me!)
However I don't think that explains it all by any means and it is certainly very unpleasant to come across.
I once heard some Usonians give very dusty reactions to that, which is down to their perceptions of the word "black".
He now has a shop in Brixton.
https://theblackfarmer.com/purpose/?_gl=1*1ja27pp*_up*MQ..&gclid=CjwKCAiA3Na5BhAZEiwAzrfagGpZp_f13kwXudGE4ZAd7XOTSj2WiPMETEnHv23Q6DwoN27WmldVuhoCafoQAvD_BwE
https://x.com/vivekgramaswamy/status/1857016676119699603
Going back to yesterday's conversation, dog owners like that should be put down.
If I ever founded a religion one of its founding principles would be, without getting into the Leon debate about pets, all domestic cat ownership would be verboten.
From the lynchpin of Starmer’s new gov lt to wrestle control of the civil service to jumping before she was pushed before she even got to start the job she was pushed into.
https://news.sky.com/story/argentina-walks-away-from-cop29-amid-fears-trump-may-pull-us-out-of-paris-climate-deal-13253961
Not everyone loves dogs and yet most dog owners expect everyone else to love theirs and if they don't then, well, that's their problem.
There are far too many of them, lots poorly trained, and far too often not on a lead.
So people don't.
This strikes me as quite a new thing. When I first noticed the phenomenon a few years ago there was definitely a feel of Asian walkers experiencing the joys of their rural hinterland for the first time. I enjoyed a little eavesdropping, and was very pleased by the delight and surprise expressed that the experience was so worthwhile and rewarding. The numbers of Asian walkers in these areas (note - this is pure anecdata) seems to be increasing, but the first-time-wonder seems rarer - people have clearly been keen to repeat the experience. Which is very satisfying.
Most walkers are people who have been doing this sort of thing for years. I do it because I grew up doing it. There's probably a lag of at least 30 years, possibly more, until the ethnic make-up of people using the countryside for recreation reflects that of the people in the country as a whole.
(Another example recently: I was at the Ingleton Waterfall Trail in the Yorkshire Dales, where we kept passing and being passed by a large group of around 30 young men all in traditional Muslim clothing - including one who, being white and ginger, strikes me as unlikely to have grown up Muslim. Possibly from Bradford or Keighley by the accents.)
I wonder how they feel now?
https://www.ramblers.org.uk/feature/introduction-amar-latif-president-ramblers
Of all the regrets of my life, the biggest is that I didn't dedicate more of my life before I was a parent to this particular challenge.
Trump and the UK Strategic Defence Review. A thread.
9:50 am · 12 Nov 2024
https://x.com/ThreshedThought/status/1856273430523326637
(The city, not the Tik Tok cat.)
But I've not met much diversity out there.
My University club was similar, although I did take someone by the name of Kenneth Kaunda up Snowdon, sorry, Yr Wyddfa, in knee deep slush one February. I assume it was a popular name in Zambia at the time.
Still, it had a better ratio than the golf club...
When I was 10, I was walking along the main road towards the sweet shop in the unremarkable middle class suburb where I grew up, and a woman and a dog - an Alsatian - on a lead were coming the other way. I spied the dog, and was instinctively wary, but told myself that the dog was on a lead so there was nothing to worry about. As I passed it, it leapt at me, knocking me over and raking its teeth down my back. My memory is fairly hazy, but I think my reaction was to curl myself into a ball and cry and hope the owner pulled the dog off. Which, she did.
Fortunately, the mother of a schoolfriend was coming the other way, and saw the incident, saw me, helped me up, took me to the sweet shop and used the phone there o call my parents, who came and collected me and took me to hospital to get it checked out (no stitches needed, just a clean up and a tetanus shot). She did challenge the owner of the dog, who apparently replied that I shouldn't have gone so close to the dog - but honestly, as schoolfriend's mum said to me, I was as far from the dog as a six foot pavement with a wall on one side would allow.
God, I was ten. The dog was bigger than I was. If that happened to my ten year old daughter I would be incandescent.
If you add in the tradition from say Czechia or Poland of having a carp to eat for Christmas, and place it against those interesting people who spend their lives catching ever larger carp and putting them back in lakes, rather than say bagging Munros or photographing all the stained glass windows in Derbyshire, you can see the potential for a clash. They keep them in the bath for a time, which is I assume about making it less "muddy" to taste.
I was quite surprised to find out just the extent of "carps for Christmas" are ordered in our local Morrisons. We have lots of local Poles now - it's the second announcement language at my GP.
https://www.euronews.com/2022/12/20/christmas-across-europe-carp-in-your-bathtub-and-other-czech-traditionshttps://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/polish-chrismas-dinner-carp-wigilia-borscht-barszcz-kompot-pierogi-ruskie-eastern-europe-a8118281.html
In Poland it's a 12 course feast, with one course for each of the 12 Apostles.
"Carp at Morrisons" thread:
https://www.worldseafishing.com/threads/carp-at-morrisons.235520/
Trump should have been charged with yreason
I won't go into more details, but the friend was jokingly known as 'Doberman nose' after that. And I haven't liked big dogs since. which is a bit of a problem, as both my brother and sister keep big dogs.
I wonder if there's a connection...?
I wouldn't fancy carp, though, particuarly not from local lakes. Bottom feeders tend to pick up all the contamination going (PCBs etc).
@davidherdson.bsky.social
Feel free to give me a follow.
It took me the best part of 4 decades to be much less nervous around dogs, and the attentions over several years of a tenant who at that point had 9 of them.
The law requires the dog to be under control. It wisely says nothing about leads, since a dog off a lead is not necessarily out of control whereas one on a lead may be, as was the case here.
I should have thought your parents could have brought a private action without difficulty. Might have been worth a few bob, unless the owner was a 'straw man'.
Got to say I find it pleasant compared to twitter and it's easy to block annoying people..
(Without diving into a debate I don't have time for today.)
I sometimes (occasionally - twice this year) challenge, the most important being when a drop-kerb blocker was forcing all the hospital visitors wheeling to go 100-150m back down the main drive pavement, get off at the pedestrian crossing and wheel back up the road which carries about 3-5k vehicle movements per day.
That got me a "fuck off you prick". There was an unused parking free space 10m away.
More often I complain to a passer by or driver about somebody *else's* car to avoid personal criticism.
There is a bit of a follow back culture, and I'm shipping away at building a profile by following the followers of people who I know form twitter, and occasionally posting something interesting.
The funnest recent one was a row of Ohio Single Cat Ladies going to the polls, each with their cat on a lead.
https://bsky.app/profile/mattwardman.bsky.social/post/3la2lb7nzni2r
House Ethics Committee could release Gaetz investigation findings
The BBC's US partner CBS is now reporting the House Ethics Committee could soon release its report on former Representative Matt Gaetz.
Gaetz, President-elect Donald Trump's pick for attorney general, was the subject of an investigation over allegations of sexual misconduct, bribery and illicit drug use.
Citing three sources familiar with the committee's work, CBS says the committee had planned to hold a vote on whether to make the report public on Friday.
But it reports that, following Gaetz's resignation from Congress, the Committee could decide to follow precedent and release the report without a vote.
Collins and Murkowski could easily vote against Gaetz's confirmation.
I do remember the scars on my back causing some comment the next time I changed for PE.
The more I reflect on this incident, the odder it gets. I may ask my parents about it.
It's from a chap who's name is quite like Squid in one of Leon's expensive restaurants.
On the whole dogs, while mentioned, don't do well. The donkey of Palm Sunday (sadly not of the NT nativity account) does best of all.
LOL.
I don't think he has grasped yet fully what a Trump 2.0 win means for our international situation!!!
Bill Kristol
Gaetz won't get confirmed, but it gives him an excuse to resign just before his own party was due to release an ethics report on him.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/antoniopequenoiv/2024/11/14/gaetz-resigns-from-house-before-ethics-report-could-be-released/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/14/italy-albania-asylum-deal-complete-failure-giorgia-meloni