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The new divides – politicalbetting.com

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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,144
    edited November 7
    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    'It's simple, really' - why Latinos flocked to Trump's working-class coalition

    The most common factor, however, was the economy - specifically, inflation. "Out here, you pay $5 for a dozen eggs. It used to be $1, or even 99 cents," Mr Negron added

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cze3yr77j9wo

    I would be surprised if a dozen eggs was 99c in 2020, but telling people stock market is at all time high and GDP is growing is a tricky sell when people are seeing massive food inflation.

    I've seen multiple stories about people in the US eating out less often because they can't afford to do so.

    And this is the US where eating out is for many people something they used to do x times a week...
    Yes. I have mentioned this. US culture is you grab food on the go for several meals of the day and eat out a lot more than here.

    Mrs U was in the US last month and came back going WTF at cost of eating out, even cheapo chains. Where as it used to be too cheap if anything. And the tipping on top. 20% minimum.

    Taking your kids to McDonalds and it costing $50...that is proper shock.

    Worth remember, what did Trump as a stunt, he read out the Cheesecake Factory Menu and the price increases. For those that don't know, The Cheesecake Factory is what lower and middle class Americans think as the place to go for a nice special occasion meal. Everybody knows that chain and it is very popular.
    One of my American friends was saying that fast food has become so expensive in LA that it's now better to get a takeaway from casual dining restaurants because the price difference is so small now.

    She's moving to London in March and staying with us for a few weeks while she gets her own place sorted out but she was saying one of the things she's looking forwards to most is not having to pay 25-30% tips.
    I need to go to the US for an extended period next year, currently looking at accommodation options and feeling ill just looking at those costs...let alone the constant tipping that is totally out of control now (despite minimum wage levels rises significantly in lots of states).
    The most irritating aren't so much the restaurant servers, where you're expecting it, but the shops and ticket counters and other such purchases where you get offered a tip choice, which is increasingly common.
    A shop. So you buy a pair of shoes or some groceries and they expect a tip ? What about self service. Do you tip then ?

    You've been over in the US recently. Is it getting worse ?
    More common, for sure.

    I bought a bar of Cadbury's and some pet treats in an 'English shop' in old Colorado Springs, just because I was passing, and the total space was left blank for a tip. I told her that no genuine English shop would expect a tip just for selling stuff, and it was bad enough that the tax is extra.

    In a West Virginia golf resort hotel, the breakfast was entirely self-service; get your own food, get your own coffee - the only thing the female server hanging about brought me was the bill, yet there was still a tip expectation of 20%.

    The interesting thing is that Americans themselves are starting to complain about the spread of the tipping culture from restaurants - where they expect it and think it's reasonable (partly because a very high proportion of them were servers for a while when young or as side jobs when a student) to over-the-counter transactions and the like.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:
    Bryson Dechambeau, the well-known golf player, was part of Trump's victory do.
    May he get the yips and never win another tournament.
    Nice to see you've changed that avatar.
    Where are the beans ??!!
    They'll be back but I'm not exactly full of them atm.
    Well done you for showing up after the election result. Not everyone, after making such a monumental tool of themselves, would have returned so soon after the event.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    I'm heading over to NY shortly so I am hearing that I should be prepared for a tippeganza.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934

    .

    algarkirk said:

    On abortion, are there not lots of people who find boths extremes repellent? OTOH we have people saying 'Never', OTOH we have people basically speaking enthusiastically about what a great right it is to terminate unborn life because you want to in a context in which there are huge numbers of them, mostly entirely healthy.

    While articulating a middle way between these two feels both intrusive into private lives and individual suffering, and also hard to pitch rightly, I wonder whether quite a lot of people are put off by the extremes on both sides, and have a very strong instinct that it should be both allowable but also much less routine or common.

    One of these extremes only appears to exist as a fantasy. I've not seen the people enthusiastically calling for late abortions on a whim. I say that as someone steeped in the pro-choice movement (both parents + 1 godparent worked on the 1968 Abortion Act in the UK and the campaign leading up to it).

    The reality of late abortion is that it is something women only do in extreme and rare situations. I am very happy to leave those difficult decisions up to the women involved and their healthcare teams. That's basically the approach that works in the UK. Late abortions are very rare; women aren't dying because healthcare staff are scared of being jailed (as now happens regularly in the US).
    Do you have a source for that last claim?
    We know restrictive abortion laws increase maternal mortality from various past studies, e.g. Farin et al. (2024, https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/pol.20220208 ), and indeed also on infant mortality, e.g. Burdick et al. (2024, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0749379723004087 ).

    Govern et al. (2024; https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.q1729 ) in the BMJ summarise the current US situation, although teasing out the effect of COVID-19 and changes in the law are complicated.

    There are plenty of individual cases being reported regularly, e.g. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amber-thurman-delayed-abortion-georgia/ , https://www.propublica.org/article/nevaeh-crain-death-texas-abortion-ban-emtala , https://msmagazine.com/2024/11/04/women-die-abortion-ban-elections-vote/
    Without commenting on the rights and wrongs of the abortion law for that first case, that article jumps to a lot of conclusions about what was not an abortion but possibly poorer care following an abortion taken in a nine week pregnancy with a pill.
    Not really what is claimed.
    I'm genuinely surprised that medics don't give life-saving help and to hell with the risk of a jury convicting them.

    It probably ends up being down to them having no insurance though...
    It’s not all about immediate crisis situations. It can be about someone has a problem, but isn’t imminently at risk, so you put off doing something because of the legal environment. But those delays increase the risks.
    But women with sepsis being sent home because a doctor won't do a D&C because it might look like they have performed an abortion is just hideously wrong on so many levels. How does it sit wth the hippocratic oath?

    "Avoid causing harm: Do not intentionally harm patients, and do not give them lethal drugs or abortifacients."

    Is sending someone home to die in breach of the oath? Especially when they cannot administer anything that would cause an abortion?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,231
    edited November 7
    Daughters.

    My youngest (now an ADULT) is upstairs crying because the hairdresser has cut an inch or so too much off her hair.. I mean. For Christ's sake. Nothing I say will help.

    Think of those in Trump's America.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited November 7
    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    'It's simple, really' - why Latinos flocked to Trump's working-class coalition

    The most common factor, however, was the economy - specifically, inflation. "Out here, you pay $5 for a dozen eggs. It used to be $1, or even 99 cents," Mr Negron added

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cze3yr77j9wo

    I would be surprised if a dozen eggs was 99c in 2020, but telling people stock market is at all time high and GDP is growing is a tricky sell when people are seeing massive food inflation.

    I've seen multiple stories about people in the US eating out less often because they can't afford to do so.

    And this is the US where eating out is for many people something they used to do x times a week...
    Yes. I have mentioned this. US culture is you grab food on the go for several meals of the day and eat out a lot more than here.

    Mrs U was in the US last month and came back going WTF at cost of eating out, even cheapo chains. Where as it used to be too cheap if anything. And the tipping on top. 20% minimum.

    Taking your kids to McDonalds and it costing $50...that is proper shock.

    Worth remember, what did Trump as a stunt, he read out the Cheesecake Factory Menu and the price increases. For those that don't know, The Cheesecake Factory is what lower and middle class Americans think as the place to go for a nice special occasion meal. Everybody knows that chain and it is very popular.
    One of my American friends was saying that fast food has become so expensive in LA that it's now better to get a takeaway from casual dining restaurants because the price difference is so small now.

    She's moving to London in March and staying with us for a few weeks while she gets her own place sorted out but she was saying one of the things she's looking forwards to most is not having to pay 25-30% tips.
    I need to go to the US for an extended period next year, currently looking at accommodation options and feeling ill just looking at those costs...let alone the constant tipping that is totally out of control now (despite minimum wage levels rises significantly in lots of states).
    The most irritating aren't so much the restaurant servers, where you're expecting it, but the shops and ticket counters and other such purchases where you get offered a tip choice, which is increasingly common.
    A shop. So you buy a pair of shoes or some groceries and they expect a tip ? What about self service. Do you tip then ?

    You've been over in the US recently. Is it getting worse ?
    More common, for sure.

    I bought a bar of Cadbury's and some pet treats in an 'English shop' in old Colorado Springs, just because I was passing, and the total space was left blank for a tip. I told her that no genuine English shop would expect a tip just for selling stuff, and it was bad enough that the tax is extra.

    In a West Virginia golf resort hotel, the breakfast was entirely self-service; get your own food, get your own coffee - the only thing the female server hanging about brought me was the bill, yet there was still a tip expectation of 20%.

    The interesting thing is that Americans themselves are starting to complain about the spread of the tipping culture from restaurants - where they expect it and think it's reasonable (partly because a very high proportion of them were servers for a while when young or as side jobs when a student) to over-the-counter transactions and the like.
    In the end - and quite soon - it will destroy their international tourism industry. Which is probably a decent sized single digit chunk of US GDP
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,882
    Leon said:

    FPT for @Cookie

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Jonathan said:

    Whatever happens, if Starmer does not do something on the economy for working class people, he will be out on his ear.

    He’s made some good steps like raising the minimum wage and giving public sector workers a decent pay rise for the first time in years.

    Labours secret weapon in this space is the trade unions. Much derided by their opponents, they’re brilliant at keeping Labour grounded and connected.
    Plus lower immigration, a ban on no-fault evictions, and the workers' rights bill which has some major reforms (and makes the gig economy much better). Together, they make life significantly better for people at the bottom end of the income distribution.

    This stuff is tangible and easy to point at during a political campaign. Labour have really hit the ground running in this respect.
    Ahahahahahaha
    My 'at the bottom end of the income distribution' friends spent most of our conversation on Tuesday evening bemoaning all the local hotels which had been given over to asylum seekers.
    In a thoughtful and nuanced and sympathetic way. But also in a way expeessingsome drustration that there were just so many and thag tbis can't be a good use of public omney.

    Here is a piercing and very relevant question from a Reform MP, on this exact point

    “I questioned the Labour Minister in the House on whether assaulting British family farms for £520 million a year is the right thing to do when £3 billion last year was spent on hotels for illegal migrants.

    The response?

    "That will be the way we go forwards"

    Watch for yourself.”

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1854434448764485959?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    Absolute madness. And this insane bill is only going to get worse. Labour hasn’t got a clue
    I'd say that's neither piercing nor relevant - it's a standard bit of Reform UK attention seeking designed to stir up the lobotomised mouth breathers who suffer from perma-outrage. I get it on Lee Anderson's social media channels all the time.

    The £3 billion was the bill incurred by the Conservatives in 2022/3 who chose not to operate the system effectively for whatever reason, and ransacked the ODA budget to pay for their warehousing of immigrants. Nothing whatsoever to do with the new Government, who have not been in power long enough to make any difference beyond a few leading indicators.

    It's a parallel to the current Conservative technique of trying to blame the new Labour Government for the things they did not do, or did do, themselves.

    Rupert Lowe MP is relying on his supporters being thick. Or, possibly, he's thick himself.

    I listened to that whole Q&A session and Angela Eagle was quite impressive.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    Quite a few on here have been raising questions about the adequacy of Kamala for a few years, suggesting that she was unpopular, perceived as unattractively left wing, not desperately effective; showing polling evidence (HYUFD of course) that she'd fail to beat Trump. Some posters confused this with enthusiasm for Trump; but in most cases it was nothing of the sort; just frustration that the Dems had a senile old duffer backed up by someone unlikely to win an election, and had boxed themselves into an election-losing position against a desperately unattractive republican alternative. The whole episode has panned out as many on here thought it would.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    TOPPING said:

    I'm heading over to NY shortly so I am hearing that I should be prepared for a tippeganza.

    If you’re used to posh bits of NYC you likely won’t notice a difference

    The change is the spread beyond the big glam cities and into every single possible transaction. Buy some beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee and your card transaction will have a tipping option - 15-30% - and it’s not obvious how you say No Tip

    And you’re tipping someone who literally just pressed a button on a till or scanned your jerky
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,144
    edited November 7
    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    It's noticeable however that both accommodation and eating out are significantly more expensive on the east coast than in the mid west (except for obviously pricey places like some of the Colorado resorts).

    The other thing that seems to work in the US but not in Europe is checking the hotel prices during my trip - cancelling and re-booking the room a week or two beforehand can often be significantly cheaper than it was when booked well ahead. In Europe prices tend to move the other way, or places are full.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807

    Starmer can't catch a break...
    https://www.tiktok.com/@itvpolitics/video/7434506275997732129

    Apparently he was late and so started without him.

    He got a huge break in July. The pay back on that will be heavy.
    It was actually probably a good thing to avoid shaking hands with a loathed authoritarian presiding over a clampdown on free speech.

    ...Which is why Orban scooted off sharpish when he saw Starmer's limo pulling up.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,978

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    'It's simple, really' - why Latinos flocked to Trump's working-class coalition

    The most common factor, however, was the economy - specifically, inflation. "Out here, you pay $5 for a dozen eggs. It used to be $1, or even 99 cents," Mr Negron added

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cze3yr77j9wo

    I would be surprised if a dozen eggs was 99c in 2020, but telling people stock market is at all time high and GDP is growing is a tricky sell when people are seeing massive food inflation.

    I've seen multiple stories about people in the US eating out less often because they can't afford to do so.

    And this is the US where eating out is for many people something they used to do x times a week...
    Yes. I have mentioned this. US culture is you grab food on the go for several meals of the day and eat out a lot more than here.

    Mrs U was in the US last month and came back going WTF at cost of eating out, even cheapo chains. Where as it used to be too cheap if anything. And the tipping on top. 20% minimum.

    Taking your kids to McDonalds and it costing $50...that is proper shock.

    Worth remember, what did Trump as a stunt, he read out the Cheesecake Factory Menu and the price increases. For those that don't know, The Cheesecake Factory is what lower and middle class Americans think as the place to go for a nice special occasion meal. Everybody knows that chain and it is very popular.
    One of my American friends was saying that fast food has become so expensive in LA that it's now better to get a takeaway from casual dining restaurants because the price difference is so small now.

    She's moving to London in March and staying with us for a few weeks while she gets her own place sorted out but she was saying one of the things she's looking forwards to most is not having to pay 25-30% tips.
    I need to go to the US for an extended period next year, currently looking at accommodation options and feeling ill just looking at those costs...let alone the constant tipping that is totally out of control now (despite minimum wage levels rises significantly in lots of states).
    The most irritating aren't so much the restaurant servers, where you're expecting it, but the shops and ticket counters and other such purchases where you get offered a tip choice, which is increasingly common.
    Tipping on self service checkout machines....
    That is crazy. I bet people happily tip on these as well.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,978

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    'It's simple, really' - why Latinos flocked to Trump's working-class coalition

    The most common factor, however, was the economy - specifically, inflation. "Out here, you pay $5 for a dozen eggs. It used to be $1, or even 99 cents," Mr Negron added

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cze3yr77j9wo

    I would be surprised if a dozen eggs was 99c in 2020, but telling people stock market is at all time high and GDP is growing is a tricky sell when people are seeing massive food inflation.

    I've seen multiple stories about people in the US eating out less often because they can't afford to do so.

    And this is the US where eating out is for many people something they used to do x times a week...
    Yes. I have mentioned this. US culture is you grab food on the go for several meals of the day and eat out a lot more than here.

    Mrs U was in the US last month and came back going WTF at cost of eating out, even cheapo chains. Where as it used to be too cheap if anything. And the tipping on top. 20% minimum.

    Taking your kids to McDonalds and it costing $50...that is proper shock.

    Worth remember, what did Trump as a stunt, he read out the Cheesecake Factory Menu and the price increases. For those that don't know, The Cheesecake Factory is what lower and middle class Americans think as the place to go for a nice special occasion meal. Everybody knows that chain and it is very popular.
    One of my American friends was saying that fast food has become so expensive in LA that it's now better to get a takeaway from casual dining restaurants because the price difference is so small now.

    She's moving to London in March and staying with us for a few weeks while she gets her own place sorted out but she was saying one of the things she's looking forwards to most is not having to pay 25-30% tips.
    I need to go to the US for an extended period next year, currently looking at accommodation options and feeling ill just looking at those costs...let alone the constant tipping that is totally out of control now (despite minimum wage levels rises significantly in lots of states).
    The most irritating aren't so much the restaurant servers, where you're expecting it, but the shops and ticket counters and other such purchases where you get offered a tip choice, which is increasingly common.
    Tipping on self service checkout machines....
    Which is a real thing. And I’ve heard Americans defend it - “well someone had to get the produce from the warehouse to the store so you can self checkout”

    THEN PAY THEM A FUCKING DECENT WAGE
    The thing is in quite a few states now the minimum wage is actually pretty high, they have basically doubled it in many West coast states.
    I saw a couple of youtube videos on this. Again be careful what you wish for.

    $20 an hour for a fast food worker is not bad, especially if they then get tips.

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/food/2024/03/26/california-minimum-wage-jobs/73107149007/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173

    Bret Stephens, a conservative who reluctantly supported Harris, gives his verdict on where Dems need to go:


    "The Democratic Party at its best stands for fairness and freedom. But the politics of today’s left is heavy on social engineering according to group identity. It also, increasingly, stands for the forcible imposition of bizarre cultural norms on hundreds of millions of Americans who want to live and let live but don’t like being told how to speak or what to think. Too many liberals forgot this, which explains how a figure like Trump, with his boisterous and transgressive disdain for liberal pieties, could be re-elected to the presidency."

    "Right now, my larger fear is that liberals lack the introspection to see where they went wrong, the discipline to do better next time and the humility to change."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/06/opinion/donald-trump-defeat-democrats.html

    It's decent advice, but it cuts both ways.
    Any conservative who denies that is deluding themselves.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited November 7
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
    Mrs U and I over the years have needed to go to the US a lot for work and often for extended periods. 10 years ago we would always tack on a trip, to see friends, family or just hang out and do tourism. Whichever partner wasn't out there, often join them for this.

    We haven't done that since COVID because of the cost of it, and we are fortunate to earn good money. I can't see how Joe Bloggs, who used to take the family to Florida to see Mickey Mouse, is affording that these days.
  • kenObikenObi Posts: 211

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.


    Oasis face value tickets for Chicago and New Jersey were far cheaper (£64 plus fees) than the UK.

    Oasis tickets on Stubhub for Chicago are £160

    So, no, I don't think they would be saying "wow thats cheap".
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    It's noticeable however that both accommodation and eating out are significantly more expensive on the east coast than in the mid west (except for obviously pricey places like some of the Colorado resorts).

    The other thing that seems to work in the US but not in Europe is checking the hotel prices during my trip - cancelling and re-booking the room a week or two beforehand can often be significantly cheaper than it was when booked well ahead.
    Well in the past two years I’ve done long Deep South trips, Midwest to DC and back trips, and a bit of the west coast - and it felt onerous everywhere

    It’s sad - for travellers - because America is a great country and Americans are great people but as a pro I cannot recommend America as a destination. Not at the moment. Unless you’re loaded it’s not worth the heavy costs
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,316

    If you would like to see actual food prices in the US, here's a current ad: https://www.fredmeyer.com/weeklyad/weeklyad

    Struggling to see any 'actual food' there.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited November 7
    kenObi said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.


    Oasis face value tickets for Chicago and New Jersey were far cheaper (£64 plus fees) than the UK.

    Oasis tickets on Stubhub for Chicago are £160

    So, no, I don't think they would be saying "wow thats cheap".
    But Oasis aren't a big deal in the US. Look up a legendary US artist equivalent to Oasis in the UK and see the cost and particularly the increase. And of course because of LiveNation monopoly, really hard to ever get the tickets at face value.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    Deport 10m immigrants, and that will also be large parts of the agricultural sector.
    At which point Trump's "I will abolish inflation" will be recognised alongside Brown's 'abolishing' of boom and bust.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,882

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
    Mrs U and I over the years have needed to go to the US a lot for work and often for extended periods. 10 years ago we would always tack on a trip, to see friends, family or just hang out and do tourism. Whichever partner wasn't out there, often join them for this.

    We haven't done that since COVID because of the cost of it, and we are fortunate to earn good money. I can't see how Joe Bloggs, who used to take the family to Florida to see Mickey Mouse, is affording that these days.
    They seem to afford their football season tickets.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:
    Bryson Dechambeau, the well-known golf player, was part of Trump's victory do.
    May he get the yips and never win another tournament.
    Nice to see you've changed that avatar.
    Where are the beans ??!!
    They'll be back but I'm not exactly full of them atm.
    Well done you for showing up after the election result. Not everyone, after making such a monumental tool of themselves, would have returned so soon after the event.
    Well done for welcoming him back with your customary grace.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:
    Bryson Dechambeau, the well-known golf player, was part of Trump's victory do.
    May he get the yips and never win another tournament.
    And in due course his grand daughter marry someone called Todger Strunk.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,053
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
    Employ your own butler. Then you can deduct the amount you’ve paid him in tips from his wages.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    kamski said:

    Stocky said:

    Can someone please confirm that a swing of approx 1% in just three key states would have won Harris the election and the three states were Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin.

    Just checking for a friend who doesn't believe me.

    Yes, I make PA the tipping point state which Trump is 1.9% ahead with 98% counted according to AP
    When you looks the results "Trump PV, Harris EC" was by no means the worst long odds bet in the world.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm heading over to NY shortly so I am hearing that I should be prepared for a tippeganza.

    If you’re used to posh bits of NYC you likely won’t notice a difference

    The change is the spread beyond the big glam cities and into every single possible transaction. Buy some beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee and your card transaction will have a tipping option - 15-30% - and it’s not obvious how you say No Tip

    And you’re tipping someone who literally just pressed a button on a till or scanned your jerky
    Wow seems bonkers although this time round I won't indeed be buying beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee but thanks for the heads up.

    And speaking of the square states I will always remember fondly when as a starter in Kentucky one time I ordered "Potato skins" and was brought sixteen full halves of potato (so eight potatoes in all), not hollowed out but deep fried and then slathered in all the stuff you would expect, sour cream, bacon, whatnot.

    As a starter. I then had the burger.

    Bliss.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173

    .

    algarkirk said:

    On abortion, are there not lots of people who find boths extremes repellent? OTOH we have people saying 'Never', OTOH we have people basically speaking enthusiastically about what a great right it is to terminate unborn life because you want to in a context in which there are huge numbers of them, mostly entirely healthy.

    While articulating a middle way between these two feels both intrusive into private lives and individual suffering, and also hard to pitch rightly, I wonder whether quite a lot of people are put off by the extremes on both sides, and have a very strong instinct that it should be both allowable but also much less routine or common.

    One of these extremes only appears to exist as a fantasy. I've not seen the people enthusiastically calling for late abortions on a whim. I say that as someone steeped in the pro-choice movement (both parents + 1 godparent worked on the 1968 Abortion Act in the UK and the campaign leading up to it).

    The reality of late abortion is that it is something women only do in extreme and rare situations. I am very happy to leave those difficult decisions up to the women involved and their healthcare teams. That's basically the approach that works in the UK. Late abortions are very rare; women aren't dying because healthcare staff are scared of being jailed (as now happens regularly in the US).
    Do you have a source for that last claim?
    We know restrictive abortion laws increase maternal mortality from various past studies, e.g. Farin et al. (2024, https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/pol.20220208 ), and indeed also on infant mortality, e.g. Burdick et al. (2024, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0749379723004087 ).

    Govern et al. (2024; https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.q1729 ) in the BMJ summarise the current US situation, although teasing out the effect of COVID-19 and changes in the law are complicated.

    There are plenty of individual cases being reported regularly, e.g. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amber-thurman-delayed-abortion-georgia/ , https://www.propublica.org/article/nevaeh-crain-death-texas-abortion-ban-emtala , https://msmagazine.com/2024/11/04/women-die-abortion-ban-elections-vote/
    Without commenting on the rights and wrongs of the abortion law for that first case, that article jumps to a lot of conclusions about what was not an abortion but possibly poorer care following an abortion taken in a nine week pregnancy with a pill.
    Not really what is claimed.
    I'm genuinely surprised that medics don't give life-saving help and to hell with the risk of a jury convicting them.

    It probably ends up being down to them having no insurance though...
    It’s not all about immediate crisis situations. It can be about someone has a problem, but isn’t imminently at risk, so you put off doing something because of the legal environment. But those delays increase the risks.
    But women with sepsis being sent home because a doctor won't do a D&C because it might look like they have performed an abortion is just hideously wrong on so many levels. How does it sit wth the hippocratic oath?

    "Avoid causing harm: Do not intentionally harm patients, and do not give them lethal drugs or abortifacients."

    Is sending someone home to die in breach of the oath? Especially when they cannot administer anything that would cause an abortion?
    It is questions like that which have led to maternity clinics simply shuttering in red states which have passed the more draconian abortion bans.

    It's just not worth it for OBGYNs to risk their licenses on a regular basis (however they might decide) - so they move states.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Trump talks to Macron before Starmer. Cold revenge

    This Labour government is so utterly useless
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited November 7
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
    Mrs U and I over the years have needed to go to the US a lot for work and often for extended periods. 10 years ago we would always tack on a trip, to see friends, family or just hang out and do tourism. Whichever partner wasn't out there, often join them for this.

    We haven't done that since COVID because of the cost of it, and we are fortunate to earn good money. I can't see how Joe Bloggs, who used to take the family to Florida to see Mickey Mouse, is affording that these days.
    They seem to afford their football season tickets.
    A family day out in Fascist Mouse Land is now more than a football season ticket (obviously unless you want Starmer level seats)....especially if you actually want to go on all the rides, because you have to buy the premium queue jumper ticket.

    Magic Kingdom with lightening lane pass is $450 per person in peak season...for a single day. Then obviously they want all the fizzy drinks, candy, a toy.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,896
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    'It's simple, really' - why Latinos flocked to Trump's working-class coalition

    The most common factor, however, was the economy - specifically, inflation. "Out here, you pay $5 for a dozen eggs. It used to be $1, or even 99 cents," Mr Negron added

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cze3yr77j9wo

    I would be surprised if a dozen eggs was 99c in 2020, but telling people stock market is at all time high and GDP is growing is a tricky sell when people are seeing massive food inflation.

    I've seen multiple stories about people in the US eating out less often because they can't afford to do so.

    And this is the US where eating out is for many people something they used to do x times a week...
    Yes. I have mentioned this. US culture is you grab food on the go for several meals of the day and eat out a lot more than here.

    Mrs U was in the US last month and came back going WTF at cost of eating out, even cheapo chains. Where as it used to be too cheap if anything. And the tipping on top. 20% minimum.

    Taking your kids to McDonalds and it costing $50...that is proper shock.

    Worth remember, what did Trump as a stunt, he read out the Cheesecake Factory Menu and the price increases. For those that don't know, The Cheesecake Factory is what lower and middle class Americans think as the place to go for a nice special occasion meal. Everybody knows that chain and it is very popular.
    One of my American friends was saying that fast food has become so expensive in LA that it's now better to get a takeaway from casual dining restaurants because the price difference is so small now.

    She's moving to London in March and staying with us for a few weeks while she gets her own place sorted out but she was saying one of the things she's looking forwards to most is not having to pay 25-30% tips.
    I need to go to the US for an extended period next year, currently looking at accommodation options and feeling ill just looking at those costs...let alone the constant tipping that is totally out of control now (despite minimum wage levels rises significantly in lots of states).
    The most irritating aren't so much the restaurant servers, where you're expecting it, but the shops and ticket counters and other such purchases where you get offered a tip choice, which is increasingly common.
    A shop. So you buy a pair of shoes or some groceries and they expect a tip ? What about self service. Do you tip then ?

    You've been over in the US recently. Is it getting worse ?
    More common, for sure.

    I bought a bar of Cadbury's and some pet treats in an 'English shop' in old Colorado Springs, just because I was passing, and the total space was left blank for a tip. I told her that no genuine English shop would expect a tip just for selling stuff, and it was bad enough that the tax is extra.

    In a West Virginia golf resort hotel, the breakfast was entirely self-service; get your own food, get your own coffee - the only thing the female server hanging about brought me was the bill, yet there was still a tip expectation of 20%.

    The interesting thing is that Americans themselves are starting to complain about the spread of the tipping culture from restaurants - where they expect it and think it's reasonable (partly because a very high proportion of them were servers for a while when young or as side jobs when a student) to over-the-counter transactions and the like.
    In the end - and quite soon - it will destroy their international tourism industry. Which is probably a decent sized single digit chunk of US GDP
    In 2019, international tourism was 0.95% of US GDP. Domestic tourism is about an order of magnitude greater.

    This shouldn't be surprising. The population of the US is large, the country is large, creating lots of tourism opportunities for it's own population, and it's a long way from most other rich countries that are sources of tourists.
  • kenObikenObi Posts: 211
    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    World of difference between Ney York, LA and all the space in between.

    Most of the Motel 6's along Route 66 are between $60 and $100 in May next year
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,882
    edited November 7
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm heading over to NY shortly so I am hearing that I should be prepared for a tippeganza.

    If you’re used to posh bits of NYC you likely won’t notice a difference

    The change is the spread beyond the big glam cities and into every single possible transaction. Buy some beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee and your card transaction will have a tipping option - 15-30% - and it’s not obvious how you say No Tip

    And you’re tipping someone who literally just pressed a button on a till or scanned your jerky
    Is it fair to term this the Ryanairisation of the US restaurant trade?

    You want a knife and fork - that'll be two dollars? Salt and pepper - one dollar? Here's a list ... :wink:
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited November 7
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm heading over to NY shortly so I am hearing that I should be prepared for a tippeganza.

    If you’re used to posh bits of NYC you likely won’t notice a difference

    The change is the spread beyond the big glam cities and into every single possible transaction. Buy some beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee and your card transaction will have a tipping option - 15-30% - and it’s not obvious how you say No Tip

    And you’re tipping someone who literally just pressed a button on a till or scanned your jerky
    Wow seems bonkers although this time round I won't indeed be buying beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee but thanks for the heads up.

    And speaking of the square states I will always remember fondly when as a starter in Kentucky one time I ordered "Potato skins" and was brought sixteen full halves of potato (so eight potatoes in all), not hollowed out but deep fried and then slathered in all the stuff you would expect, sour cream, bacon, whatnot.

    As a starter. I then had the burger.

    Bliss.
    I do love the flyover states. Lost roads in Alabama or Arkansas or Mississippi

    You can get lost in America - in your own car - like nowhere else on earth
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668

    Bret Stephens, a conservative who reluctantly supported Harris, gives his verdict on where Dems need to go:


    "The Democratic Party at its best stands for fairness and freedom. But the politics of today’s left is heavy on social engineering according to group identity. It also, increasingly, stands for the forcible imposition of bizarre cultural norms on hundreds of millions of Americans who want to live and let live but don’t like being told how to speak or what to think. Too many liberals forgot this, which explains how a figure like Trump, with his boisterous and transgressive disdain for liberal pieties, could be re-elected to the presidency."


    "Right now, my larger fear is that liberals lack the introspection to see where they went wrong, the discipline to do better next time and the humility to change."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/06/opinion/donald-trump-defeat-democrats.html

    He is right on all points.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    Yep.
    Will Labour get this, or not ?

    "Britain’s HS2 rail line spent £100mn building an arch over the railway to protect overflying bats from hitting its trains.

    "Thompson, who became chair in 2023, said the bat measure was just one of 8,276 consents HS2 needed."

    High infrastructure costs are a policy choice.

    https://x.com/Sam_Dumitriu/status/1854518510082306063
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm heading over to NY shortly so I am hearing that I should be prepared for a tippeganza.

    If you’re used to posh bits of NYC you likely won’t notice a difference

    The change is the spread beyond the big glam cities and into every single possible transaction. Buy some beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee and your card transaction will have a tipping option - 15-30% - and it’s not obvious how you say No Tip

    And you’re tipping someone who literally just pressed a button on a till or scanned your jerky
    Wow seems bonkers although this time round I won't indeed be buying beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee but thanks for the heads up.

    And speaking of the square states I will always remember fondly when as a starter in Kentucky one time I ordered "Potato skins" and was brought sixteen full halves of potato (so eight potatoes in all), not hollowed out but deep fried and then slathered in all the stuff you would expect, sour cream, bacon, whatnot.

    As a starter. I then had the burger.

    Bliss.
    I do love the flyover states. Lost roads in Alabama or Arkansas or Mississippi

    You can get lost in America - in your own car - like nowhere else on earth
    Canada waves....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm heading over to NY shortly so I am hearing that I should be prepared for a tippeganza.

    If you’re used to posh bits of NYC you likely won’t notice a difference

    The change is the spread beyond the big glam cities and into every single possible transaction. Buy some beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee and your card transaction will have a tipping option - 15-30% - and it’s not obvious how you say No Tip

    And you’re tipping someone who literally just pressed a button on a till or scanned your jerky
    Is it fair to term this the Ryanairisation of the US restaurant trade?

    You want a knife and fork - that'll be two dollars? Salt and pepper - one dollar? Here's a list ... :wink:
    It is the Ryanairisation of everything. Remember of course the US invented this model before RyanAir.
  • kenObikenObi Posts: 211

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
    Mrs U and I over the years have needed to go to the US a lot for work and often for extended periods. 10 years ago we would always tack on a trip, to see friends, family or just hang out and do tourism. Whichever partner wasn't out there, often join them for this.

    We haven't done that since COVID because of the cost of it, and we are fortunate to earn good money. I can't see how Joe Bloggs, who used to take the family to Florida to see Mickey Mouse, is affording that these days.
    They seem to afford their football season tickets.
    A family day out in Fascist Mouse Land is now more than a football season ticket (obviously unless you want Starmer level seats)....especially if you actually want to go on all the rides, because you have to buy the premium queue jumper premium.

    Magic Kingdom with lightening lane pass is $450 per person in peak season...for a single day. Then obviously they want all the fizzy drinks, candy, a toy.
    Alton Towers walk up including their top priced fast track (Platinum) is over £200 per person...for a single day.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,882

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
    Mrs U and I over the years have needed to go to the US a lot for work and often for extended periods. 10 years ago we would always tack on a trip, to see friends, family or just hang out and do tourism. Whichever partner wasn't out there, often join them for this.

    We haven't done that since COVID because of the cost of it, and we are fortunate to earn good money. I can't see how Joe Bloggs, who used to take the family to Florida to see Mickey Mouse, is affording that these days.
    They seem to afford their football season tickets.
    A family day out in Fascist Mouse Land is now more than a football season ticket (obviously unless you want Starmer level seats)....especially if you actually want to go on all the rides, because you have to buy the premium queue jumper ticket.

    Magic Kingdom with lightening lane pass is $450 per person in peak season...for a single day. Then obviously they want all the fizzy drinks, candy, a toy.
    If I have it right Football Season tickets for the Premiership and League One vary between about £500 and £3000.

    TBF Accrington Stanley are a bit less than that.

    I assume those prices do not include the pies.

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,676
    Labour MP Mike Amesbury has been charged with assault
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited November 7
    kenObi said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
    Mrs U and I over the years have needed to go to the US a lot for work and often for extended periods. 10 years ago we would always tack on a trip, to see friends, family or just hang out and do tourism. Whichever partner wasn't out there, often join them for this.

    We haven't done that since COVID because of the cost of it, and we are fortunate to earn good money. I can't see how Joe Bloggs, who used to take the family to Florida to see Mickey Mouse, is affording that these days.
    They seem to afford their football season tickets.
    A family day out in Fascist Mouse Land is now more than a football season ticket (obviously unless you want Starmer level seats)....especially if you actually want to go on all the rides, because you have to buy the premium queue jumper premium.

    Magic Kingdom with lightening lane pass is $450 per person in peak season...for a single day. Then obviously they want all the fizzy drinks, candy, a toy.
    Alton Towers walk up including their top priced fast track (Platinum) is over £200 per person...for a single day.
    Which is expensive, but half the price. And if you go to Florida on your holidays, you want to do all the parks, Disney, Universal, etc. And yes you can buy multi-day passes that are cheaper on a per day basis. But its not just the entry, every single thing you touch is insane pricing, plus tip...20% on every f##king thing you do on top of the sticker price.

    The point is loads of working class Brits used to go to Florida for what was really quite affordable holiday. In fact lots bought holiday homes because it was actually pretty cost effective place to go for sunshine and loads of demand from other Brits to rent out your property.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Nigelb said:

    Yep.
    Will Labour get this, or not ?

    "Britain’s HS2 rail line spent £100mn building an arch over the railway to protect overflying bats from hitting its trains.

    "Thompson, who became chair in 2023, said the bat measure was just one of 8,276 consents HS2 needed."

    High infrastructure costs are a policy choice.

    https://x.com/Sam_Dumitriu/status/1854518510082306063

    Retained EU legislation which the tories kept after Brexit.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,422
    Harris will narrow the popular vote count with a lot of California still to report, but it looks like Trump will still just remain above 50%.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
    Mrs U and I over the years have needed to go to the US a lot for work and often for extended periods. 10 years ago we would always tack on a trip, to see friends, family or just hang out and do tourism. Whichever partner wasn't out there, often join them for this.

    We haven't done that since COVID because of the cost of it, and we are fortunate to earn good money. I can't see how Joe Bloggs, who used to take the family to Florida to see Mickey Mouse, is affording that these days.
    They seem to afford their football season tickets.
    A family day out in Fascist Mouse Land is now more than a football season ticket (obviously unless you want Starmer level seats)....especially if you actually want to go on all the rides, because you have to buy the premium queue jumper ticket.

    Magic Kingdom with lightening lane pass is $450 per person in peak season...for a single day. Then obviously they want all the fizzy drinks, candy, a toy.
    If I have it right Football Season tickets for the Premiership and League One vary between about £500 and £3000.

    TBF Accrington Stanley are a bit less than that.

    I assume those prices do not include the pies.

    Accrington Stanley? Who are they?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,882

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm heading over to NY shortly so I am hearing that I should be prepared for a tippeganza.

    If you’re used to posh bits of NYC you likely won’t notice a difference

    The change is the spread beyond the big glam cities and into every single possible transaction. Buy some beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee and your card transaction will have a tipping option - 15-30% - and it’s not obvious how you say No Tip

    And you’re tipping someone who literally just pressed a button on a till or scanned your jerky
    Is it fair to term this the Ryanairisation of the US restaurant trade?

    You want a knife and fork - that'll be two dollars? Salt and pepper - one dollar? Here's a list ... :wink:
    It is the Ryanairisation of everything. Remember of course the US invented this model before RyanAir.
    OK. The Southwestisation of everything, if I remember by Low Cost Airline history correctly.

    Were any Usonian ones actually before Laker Airlines ?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    Nigelb said:

    Yep.
    Will Labour get this, or not ?

    "Britain’s HS2 rail line spent £100mn building an arch over the railway to protect overflying bats from hitting its trains.

    "Thompson, who became chair in 2023, said the bat measure was just one of 8,276 consents HS2 needed."

    High infrastructure costs are a policy choice.

    https://x.com/Sam_Dumitriu/status/1854518510082306063

    That's bats.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942

    With Trump winning, does this mean we have to take Prince Harry back?

    Worse - James Corden.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,882
    edited November 7

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
    Mrs U and I over the years have needed to go to the US a lot for work and often for extended periods. 10 years ago we would always tack on a trip, to see friends, family or just hang out and do tourism. Whichever partner wasn't out there, often join them for this.

    We haven't done that since COVID because of the cost of it, and we are fortunate to earn good money. I can't see how Joe Bloggs, who used to take the family to Florida to see Mickey Mouse, is affording that these days.
    They seem to afford their football season tickets.
    A family day out in Fascist Mouse Land is now more than a football season ticket (obviously unless you want Starmer level seats)....especially if you actually want to go on all the rides, because you have to buy the premium queue jumper ticket.

    Magic Kingdom with lightening lane pass is $450 per person in peak season...for a single day. Then obviously they want all the fizzy drinks, candy, a toy.
    If I have it right Football Season tickets for the Premiership and League One vary between about £500 and £3000.

    TBF Accrington Stanley are a bit less than that.

    I assume those prices do not include the pies.

    Accrington Stanley? Who are they?
    I have a vague feeling of being ambushed here, so I'm holding my peace.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited November 7
    Eabhal said:

    With Trump winning, does this mean we have to take Prince Harry back?

    Worse - James Corden.
    I thought the Americans already posted him back here with return to sender...and banned from re-entry stamped on his passport.
  • booksellerbookseller Posts: 508

    kenObi said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
    Mrs U and I over the years have needed to go to the US a lot for work and often for extended periods. 10 years ago we would always tack on a trip, to see friends, family or just hang out and do tourism. Whichever partner wasn't out there, often join them for this.

    We haven't done that since COVID because of the cost of it, and we are fortunate to earn good money. I can't see how Joe Bloggs, who used to take the family to Florida to see Mickey Mouse, is affording that these days.
    They seem to afford their football season tickets.
    A family day out in Fascist Mouse Land is now more than a football season ticket (obviously unless you want Starmer level seats)....especially if you actually want to go on all the rides, because you have to buy the premium queue jumper premium.

    Magic Kingdom with lightening lane pass is $450 per person in peak season...for a single day. Then obviously they want all the fizzy drinks, candy, a toy.
    Alton Towers walk up including their top priced fast track (Platinum) is over £200 per person...for a single day.
    Which is expensive, but half the price. And if you go to Florida on your holidays, you want to do all the parks, Disney, Universal, etc. And yes you can buy multi-day passes that are cheaper on a per day basis.

    The point is loads of working class Brits used to go to Florida for what was really quite affordable holiday. It ain't cheap now.
    Matt Stoller is good on how large swathes of price rises that get lumped under 'inflation' are actually the result of monopolies and price gouging: e.g. https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/monopolies-are-why-we-are-restarting

    I thoroughly recommend reading his book 'Goliath' (which is only published in the US sadly, but is probably available on Amazon in the UK). His thesis, which I find compelling, is that one of the actual threats to democracy isn't (surprisingly) 'trans people or illegals', but monopolistic businesses who put their own dictators into power to prevent anti-trust policies or regulation that promotes competition (and thus keeps costs down).
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    It's noticeable however that both accommodation and eating out are significantly more expensive on the east coast than in the mid west (except for obviously pricey places like some of the Colorado resorts).

    The other thing that seems to work in the US but not in Europe is checking the hotel prices during my trip - cancelling and re-booking the room a week or two beforehand can often be significantly cheaper than it was when booked well ahead. In Europe prices tend to move the other way, or places are full.
    Worth noting that booking.com makes this semi-automatic. Book a refundable room, then re-book a non refundable room a couple of days before arriving, and you will be prompted to automatically cancel the first one.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,422

    kenObi said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
    Mrs U and I over the years have needed to go to the US a lot for work and often for extended periods. 10 years ago we would always tack on a trip, to see friends, family or just hang out and do tourism. Whichever partner wasn't out there, often join them for this.

    We haven't done that since COVID because of the cost of it, and we are fortunate to earn good money. I can't see how Joe Bloggs, who used to take the family to Florida to see Mickey Mouse, is affording that these days.
    They seem to afford their football season tickets.
    A family day out in Fascist Mouse Land is now more than a football season ticket (obviously unless you want Starmer level seats)....especially if you actually want to go on all the rides, because you have to buy the premium queue jumper premium.

    Magic Kingdom with lightening lane pass is $450 per person in peak season...for a single day. Then obviously they want all the fizzy drinks, candy, a toy.
    Alton Towers walk up including their top priced fast track (Platinum) is over £200 per person...for a single day.
    Which is expensive, but half the price. And if you go to Florida on your holidays, you want to do all the parks, Disney, Universal, etc. And yes you can buy multi-day passes that are cheaper on a per day basis.

    The point is loads of working class Brits used to go to Florida for what was really quite affordable holiday. It ain't cheap now.
    Matt Stoller is good on how large swathes of price rises that get lumped under 'inflation' are actually the result of monopolies and price gouging: e.g. https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/monopolies-are-why-we-are-restarting

    I thoroughly recommend reading his book 'Goliath' (which is only published in the US sadly, but is probably available on Amazon in the UK). His thesis, which I find compelling, is that one of the actual threats to democracy isn't (surprisingly) 'trans people or illegals', but monopolistic businesses who put their own dictators into power to prevent anti-trust policies or regulation that promotes competition (and thus keeps costs down).
    The problems in the US are largely the result of unfettered capitalism, but they've just voted for even less fettered capitalism.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    .

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
    Mrs U and I over the years have needed to go to the US a lot for work and often for extended periods. 10 years ago we would always tack on a trip, to see friends, family or just hang out and do tourism. Whichever partner wasn't out there, often join them for this.

    We haven't done that since COVID because of the cost of it, and we are fortunate to earn good money. I can't see how Joe Bloggs, who used to take the family to Florida to see Mickey Mouse, is affording that these days.
    They seem to afford their football season tickets.
    A family day out in Fascist Mouse Land is now more than a football season ticket (obviously unless you want Starmer level seats)....especially if you actually want to go on all the rides, because you have to buy the premium queue jumper ticket.

    Magic Kingdom with lightening lane pass is $450 per person in peak season...for a single day. Then obviously they want all the fizzy drinks, candy, a toy.
    If I have it right Football Season tickets for the Premiership and League One vary between about £500 and £3000.

    TBF Accrington Stanley are a bit less than that.

    I assume those prices do not include the pies.

    Accrington Stanley? Who are they?
    Exacccccctlyyyyyyyyyy......
    So pleased someone got that ;-)
  • kenObikenObi Posts: 211

    kenObi said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.


    Oasis face value tickets for Chicago and New Jersey were far cheaper (£64 plus fees) than the UK.

    Oasis tickets on Stubhub for Chicago are £160

    So, no, I don't think they would be saying "wow thats cheap".
    But Oasis aren't a big deal in the US. Look up a legendary US artist equivalent to Oasis in the UK and see the cost and particularly the increase. And of course because of LiveNation monopoly, really hard to ever get the tickets at face value.
    Taylor Swift face value tickets in USA were cheaper...it's a fair point to say Live Nation restricts them though.

    Billy Joel ?

    Las Vegas started at about £50

    Anfield next summer were generally £175 although a handful of obstructed views at about £90

    Springsteen ?

    Cheaper in Pittsburgh, Syracuse or Albany this year than tickets in Liverpool or Manchester next year.

    Probably the only difference is the USA has a far bigger pool of people prepared to pay "dynamic" prices.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    darkage said:

    Nigelb said:

    Yep.
    Will Labour get this, or not ?

    "Britain’s HS2 rail line spent £100mn building an arch over the railway to protect overflying bats from hitting its trains.

    "Thompson, who became chair in 2023, said the bat measure was just one of 8,276 consents HS2 needed."

    High infrastructure costs are a policy choice.

    https://x.com/Sam_Dumitriu/status/1854518510082306063

    Retained EU legislation which the tories kept after Brexit.
    Cracking job, Boris, Mogg et al.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited November 7

    kenObi said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
    Mrs U and I over the years have needed to go to the US a lot for work and often for extended periods. 10 years ago we would always tack on a trip, to see friends, family or just hang out and do tourism. Whichever partner wasn't out there, often join them for this.

    We haven't done that since COVID because of the cost of it, and we are fortunate to earn good money. I can't see how Joe Bloggs, who used to take the family to Florida to see Mickey Mouse, is affording that these days.
    They seem to afford their football season tickets.
    A family day out in Fascist Mouse Land is now more than a football season ticket (obviously unless you want Starmer level seats)....especially if you actually want to go on all the rides, because you have to buy the premium queue jumper premium.

    Magic Kingdom with lightening lane pass is $450 per person in peak season...for a single day. Then obviously they want all the fizzy drinks, candy, a toy.
    Alton Towers walk up including their top priced fast track (Platinum) is over £200 per person...for a single day.
    Which is expensive, but half the price. And if you go to Florida on your holidays, you want to do all the parks, Disney, Universal, etc. And yes you can buy multi-day passes that are cheaper on a per day basis.

    The point is loads of working class Brits used to go to Florida for what was really quite affordable holiday. It ain't cheap now.
    Matt Stoller is good on how large swathes of price rises that get lumped under 'inflation' are actually the result of monopolies and price gouging: e.g. https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/monopolies-are-why-we-are-restarting

    I thoroughly recommend reading his book 'Goliath' (which is only published in the US sadly, but is probably available on Amazon in the UK). His thesis, which I find compelling, is that one of the actual threats to democracy isn't (surprisingly) 'trans people or illegals', but monopolistic businesses who put their own dictators into power to prevent anti-trust policies or regulation that promotes competition (and thus keeps costs down).
    There was a report a couple of years ago where a journalist sat in on loads of the earnings calls. And the analysts were asking are you worried about the effect on inflation on your business. The response was basically, no, its actually very helpful, inflation has been so low for so long, that any movement in price is noticed by consumers and every company is afraid to be the first mover. When pricing are rising rapidly, consumers don't notice the exact amounts, they aren't keeping track if it 4.5% or 5.6% increase.

    With this articles, they provided charts and it showed that many of these companies where basically making up for all the "lost" inflation they didn't add onto costs during 2010s and then some more on top.

    The duo/monopoly aspect obviously allowed even more of this and this is particularly problematic in the US. Capitalism requires fair markets.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,231

    Bret Stephens, a conservative who reluctantly supported Harris, gives his verdict on where Dems need to go:


    "The Democratic Party at its best stands for fairness and freedom. But the politics of today’s left is heavy on social engineering according to group identity. It also, increasingly, stands for the forcible imposition of bizarre cultural norms on hundreds of millions of Americans who want to live and let live but don’t like being told how to speak or what to think. Too many liberals forgot this, which explains how a figure like Trump, with his boisterous and transgressive disdain for liberal pieties, could be re-elected to the presidency."


    "Right now, my larger fear is that liberals lack the introspection to see where they went wrong, the discipline to do better next time and the humility to change."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/06/opinion/donald-trump-defeat-democrats.html

    Spot on except for his use of 'liberal' in the US sense. Substitute 'liberal pieties' with 'left wing pieties'.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited November 7
    kenObi said:

    kenObi said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.


    Oasis face value tickets for Chicago and New Jersey were far cheaper (£64 plus fees) than the UK.

    Oasis tickets on Stubhub for Chicago are £160

    So, no, I don't think they would be saying "wow thats cheap".
    But Oasis aren't a big deal in the US. Look up a legendary US artist equivalent to Oasis in the UK and see the cost and particularly the increase. And of course because of LiveNation monopoly, really hard to ever get the tickets at face value.
    Taylor Swift face value tickets in USA were cheaper...it's a fair point to say Live Nation restricts them though.

    Billy Joel ?

    Las Vegas started at about £50

    Anfield next summer were generally £175 although a handful of obstructed views at about £90

    Springsteen ?

    Cheaper in Pittsburgh, Syracuse or Albany this year than tickets in Liverpool or Manchester next year.

    Probably the only difference is the USA has a far bigger pool of people prepared to pay "dynamic" prices.

    But nobody gets the face value because of dynamic pricing and the way LiveNation is very naughty about restricting primary supply going straight to secondary market.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    edited November 7
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm heading over to NY shortly so I am hearing that I should be prepared for a tippeganza.

    If you’re used to posh bits of NYC you likely won’t notice a difference

    The change is the spread beyond the big glam cities and into every single possible transaction. Buy some beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee and your card transaction will have a tipping option - 15-30% - and it’s not obvious how you say No Tip

    And you’re tipping someone who literally just pressed a button on a till or scanned your jerky
    Wow seems bonkers although this time round I won't indeed be buying beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee but thanks for the heads up.

    And speaking of the square states I will always remember fondly when as a starter in Kentucky one time I ordered "Potato skins" and was brought sixteen full halves of potato (so eight potatoes in all), not hollowed out but deep fried and then slathered in all the stuff you would expect, sour cream, bacon, whatnot.

    As a starter. I then had the burger.

    Bliss.
    I do love the flyover states. Lost roads in Alabama or Arkansas or Mississippi

    You can get lost in America - in your own car - like nowhere else on earth
    For me what is so interesting is the road trip from Lexington to Cumberland Gap. In Lexington it is all white picket fences, immaculately manicured paddocks and "horse farms" as they call them ie tons of money. As you head south you see people selling their socks on the porch, literally dirt poor.
  • .

    algarkirk said:

    On abortion, are there not lots of people who find boths extremes repellent? OTOH we have people saying 'Never', OTOH we have people basically speaking enthusiastically about what a great right it is to terminate unborn life because you want to in a context in which there are huge numbers of them, mostly entirely healthy.

    While articulating a middle way between these two feels both intrusive into private lives and individual suffering, and also hard to pitch rightly, I wonder whether quite a lot of people are put off by the extremes on both sides, and have a very strong instinct that it should be both allowable but also much less routine or common.

    One of these extremes only appears to exist as a fantasy. I've not seen the people enthusiastically calling for late abortions on a whim. I say that as someone steeped in the pro-choice movement (both parents + 1 godparent worked on the 1968 Abortion Act in the UK and the campaign leading up to it).

    The reality of late abortion is that it is something women only do in extreme and rare situations. I am very happy to leave those difficult decisions up to the women involved and their healthcare teams. That's basically the approach that works in the UK. Late abortions are very rare; women aren't dying because healthcare staff are scared of being jailed (as now happens regularly in the US).
    Do you have a source for that last claim?
    We know restrictive abortion laws increase maternal mortality from various past studies, e.g. Farin et al. (2024, https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/pol.20220208 ), and indeed also on infant mortality, e.g. Burdick et al. (2024, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0749379723004087 ).

    Govern et al. (2024; https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.q1729 ) in the BMJ summarise the current US situation, although teasing out the effect of COVID-19 and changes in the law are complicated.

    There are plenty of individual cases being reported regularly, e.g. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amber-thurman-delayed-abortion-georgia/ , https://www.propublica.org/article/nevaeh-crain-death-texas-abortion-ban-emtala , https://msmagazine.com/2024/11/04/women-die-abortion-ban-elections-vote/
    Without commenting on the rights and wrongs of the abortion law for that first case, that article jumps to a lot of conclusions about what was not an abortion but possibly poorer care following an abortion taken in a nine week pregnancy with a pill.
    Not really what is claimed.
    I'm genuinely surprised that medics don't give life-saving help and to hell with the risk of a jury convicting them.

    It probably ends up being down to them having no insurance though...
    It’s not all about immediate crisis situations. It can be about someone has a problem, but isn’t imminently at risk, so you put off doing something because of the legal environment. But those delays increase the risks.
    But women with sepsis being sent home because a doctor won't do a D&C because it might look like they have performed an abortion is just hideously wrong on so many levels. How does it sit wth the hippocratic oath?

    "Avoid causing harm: Do not intentionally harm patients, and do not give them lethal drugs or abortifacients."

    Is sending someone home to die in breach of the oath? Especially when they cannot administer anything that would cause an abortion?
    Its all utter conjecture.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    Stocky said:

    Bret Stephens, a conservative who reluctantly supported Harris, gives his verdict on where Dems need to go:


    "The Democratic Party at its best stands for fairness and freedom. But the politics of today’s left is heavy on social engineering according to group identity. It also, increasingly, stands for the forcible imposition of bizarre cultural norms on hundreds of millions of Americans who want to live and let live but don’t like being told how to speak or what to think. Too many liberals forgot this, which explains how a figure like Trump, with his boisterous and transgressive disdain for liberal pieties, could be re-elected to the presidency."


    "Right now, my larger fear is that liberals lack the introspection to see where they went wrong, the discipline to do better next time and the humility to change."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/06/opinion/donald-trump-defeat-democrats.html

    Spot on except for his use of 'liberal' in the US sense. Substitute 'liberal pieties' with 'left wing pieties'.
    No efforts on behalf of the right to enforce bizarre cultural norms on hundreds of millions of Americans, of course ?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,720
    edited November 7

    Nigelb said:

    Yep.
    Will Labour get this, or not ?

    "Britain’s HS2 rail line spent £100mn building an arch over the railway to protect overflying bats from hitting its trains.

    "Thompson, who became chair in 2023, said the bat measure was just one of 8,276 consents HS2 needed."

    High infrastructure costs are a policy choice.

    https://x.com/Sam_Dumitriu/status/1854518510082306063

    That's bats.
    Mrs Flatlander was contracted many moons ago to take enquiry calls for English Nature (as it was then).

    Half of the conversations started with "I've got this bat...".

    I always wondered what proportion of encounters was actually reported. 10%? 5%? 1%?


    It used to be that bat surveys involved sitting out all night but it has got a lot easier now with remote ultrasound recording and "AI" processing.

    Which no doubt means that more bats are found...


    In this case it seems they had Bechstein's, which pretty much confined to southern England. Protected species under the European Habitat Directive.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:
    Bryson Dechambeau, the well-known golf player, was part of Trump's victory do.
    May he get the yips and never win another tournament.
    Nice to see you've changed that avatar.
    Where are the beans ??!!
    They'll be back but I'm not exactly full of them atm.
    Well done you for showing up after the election result. Not everyone, after making such a monumental tool of themselves, would have returned so soon after the event.
    A few hours kip works wonders.

    To be fair it's 72,701,692 (and counting) people over the pond who've made tools of themselves. Except, no, that is not fair. It's victim blaming. Donald Trump is a conman extraordinaire.

    In any case it's their prerogative, isn't it. It was a free and fair election and this is who they want as their president. Just as individuals have the right to make bad choices so do countries.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    xyzxyzxyz said:

    French bettor who made $50m on election result used private neighbourhood polls. French regulator now banning poly market.

    https://www.wsj.com/finance/how-the-trump-whale-correctly-called-the-election-cb7eef1d?mod=mhp Paywall

    Interesting how he doesn't seem to have mentioned that in the interview he did *before* the election.

    Like I said before, prediction market behaviour is hard to read because to an external observer a rich moron looks the same as someone with inside information, and if you've got inside information it's in your interests to try to look like a rich moron.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
    Mrs U and I over the years have needed to go to the US a lot for work and often for extended periods. 10 years ago we would always tack on a trip, to see friends, family or just hang out and do tourism. Whichever partner wasn't out there, often join them for this.

    We haven't done that since COVID because of the cost of it, and we are fortunate to earn good money. I can't see how Joe Bloggs, who used to take the family to Florida to see Mickey Mouse, is affording that these days.
    They seem to afford their football season tickets.
    A family day out in Fascist Mouse Land is now more than a football season ticket (obviously unless you want Starmer level seats)....especially if you actually want to go on all the rides, because you have to buy the premium queue jumper ticket.

    Magic Kingdom with lightening lane pass is $450 per person in peak season...for a single day. Then obviously they want all the fizzy drinks, candy, a toy.
    If I have it right Football Season tickets for the Premiership and League One vary between about £500 and £3000.

    TBF Accrington Stanley are a bit less than that.

    I assume those prices do not include the pies.

    Accrington Stanley? Who are they?
    Meat? Ugh!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm heading over to NY shortly so I am hearing that I should be prepared for a tippeganza.

    If you’re used to posh bits of NYC you likely won’t notice a difference

    The change is the spread beyond the big glam cities and into every single possible transaction. Buy some beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee and your card transaction will have a tipping option - 15-30% - and it’s not obvious how you say No Tip

    And you’re tipping someone who literally just pressed a button on a till or scanned your jerky
    Wow seems bonkers although this time round I won't indeed be buying beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee but thanks for the heads up.

    And speaking of the square states I will always remember fondly when as a starter in Kentucky one time I ordered "Potato skins" and was brought sixteen full halves of potato (so eight potatoes in all), not hollowed out but deep fried and then slathered in all the stuff you would expect, sour cream, bacon, whatnot.

    As a starter. I then had the burger.

    Bliss.
    I do love the flyover states. Lost roads in Alabama or Arkansas or Mississippi

    You can get lost in America - in your own car - like nowhere else on earth
    For me what is so interesting is the road trip from Lexington to Cumberland Gap. In Lexington it is all white picket fences, immaculately manicured paddocks and "horse farms" as they call them ie tons of money. As you head south you see people selling their socks on the porch, literally dirt poor.
    Tennessee is a surprisingly wonderful place (despite the usual American woes)

    Glorious untouched countryside. Much of it overlooked by travellers

    Reminds me of Aveyron in France
  • kenObikenObi Posts: 211

    kenObi said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
    Mrs U and I over the years have needed to go to the US a lot for work and often for extended periods. 10 years ago we would always tack on a trip, to see friends, family or just hang out and do tourism. Whichever partner wasn't out there, often join them for this.

    We haven't done that since COVID because of the cost of it, and we are fortunate to earn good money. I can't see how Joe Bloggs, who used to take the family to Florida to see Mickey Mouse, is affording that these days.
    They seem to afford their football season tickets.
    A family day out in Fascist Mouse Land is now more than a football season ticket (obviously unless you want Starmer level seats)....especially if you actually want to go on all the rides, because you have to buy the premium queue jumper premium.

    Magic Kingdom with lightening lane pass is $450 per person in peak season...for a single day. Then obviously they want all the fizzy drinks, candy, a toy.
    Alton Towers walk up including their top priced fast track (Platinum) is over £200 per person...for a single day.
    Which is expensive, but half the price. And if you go to Florida on your holidays, you want to do all the parks, Disney, Universal, etc. And yes you can buy multi-day passes that are cheaper on a per day basis. But its not just the entry, every single thing you touch is insane pricing, plus tip...20% on every f##king thing you do on top of the sticker price.

    The point is loads of working class Brits used to go to Florida for what was really quite affordable holiday. In fact lots bought holiday homes because it was actually pretty cost effective place to go for sunshine and loads of demand from other Brits to rent out your property.
    No one NEEDS fast track.

    They weren't even a thing when I was a kid.

    Disney world is about £500 for 7 days (any days out of 14).

    No one does a park every day.

    Take your own F&B - just not in glass

    2 weeks B&B in Benidorn for a family of 4 in the school hols is £5k minimum
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    Bret Stephens, a conservative who reluctantly supported Harris, gives his verdict on where Dems need to go:


    "The Democratic Party at its best stands for fairness and freedom. But the politics of today’s left is heavy on social engineering according to group identity. It also, increasingly, stands for the forcible imposition of bizarre cultural norms on hundreds of millions of Americans who want to live and let live but don’t like being told how to speak or what to think. Too many liberals forgot this, which explains how a figure like Trump, with his boisterous and transgressive disdain for liberal pieties, could be re-elected to the presidency."


    "Right now, my larger fear is that liberals lack the introspection to see where they went wrong, the discipline to do better next time and the humility to change."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/06/opinion/donald-trump-defeat-democrats.html

    Spot on except for his use of 'liberal' in the US sense. Substitute 'liberal pieties' with 'left wing pieties'.
    No efforts on behalf of the right to enforce bizarre cultural norms on hundreds of millions of Americans, of course ?
    Still can't get my head around them using red for Republican, and blue for Democrat!

    Counter-intuitive or what?!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:
    Bryson Dechambeau, the well-known golf player, was part of Trump's victory do.
    May he get the yips and never win another tournament.
    Nice to see you've changed that avatar.
    Where are the beans ??!!
    They'll be back but I'm not exactly full of them atm.
    Well done you for showing up after the election result. Not everyone, after making such a monumental tool of themselves, would have returned so soon after the event.
    A few hours kip works wonders.

    To be fair it's 72,701,692 (and counting) people over the pond who've made tools of themselves. Except, no, that is not fair. It's victim blaming. Donald Trump is a conman extraordinaire.

    In any case it's their prerogative, isn't it. It was a free and fair election and this is who they want as their president. Just as individuals have the right to make bad choices so do countries.
    Well that's as maybe but on this site we are supposed to bring dispassionate and incisive analysis to these kind of situations so I'm ever so slightly disappointed to see that you are trying to blame others for your failure in this regard.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,379
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
    Mrs U and I over the years have needed to go to the US a lot for work and often for extended periods. 10 years ago we would always tack on a trip, to see friends, family or just hang out and do tourism. Whichever partner wasn't out there, often join them for this.

    We haven't done that since COVID because of the cost of it, and we are fortunate to earn good money. I can't see how Joe Bloggs, who used to take the family to Florida to see Mickey Mouse, is affording that these days.
    They seem to afford their football season tickets.
    A family day out in Fascist Mouse Land is now more than a football season ticket (obviously unless you want Starmer level seats)....especially if you actually want to go on all the rides, because you have to buy the premium queue jumper ticket.

    Magic Kingdom with lightening lane pass is $450 per person in peak season...for a single day. Then obviously they want all the fizzy drinks, candy, a toy.
    If I have it right Football Season tickets for the Premiership and League One vary between about £500 and £3000.

    TBF Accrington Stanley are a bit less than that.

    I assume those prices do not include the pies.

    Accrington Stanley? Who are they?
    I have a vague feeling of being ambushed here, so I'm holding my peace.
    It was a line from an advert for milk in the 70/80s. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPFrTBppRfw
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm heading over to NY shortly so I am hearing that I should be prepared for a tippeganza.

    If you’re used to posh bits of NYC you likely won’t notice a difference

    The change is the spread beyond the big glam cities and into every single possible transaction. Buy some beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee and your card transaction will have a tipping option - 15-30% - and it’s not obvious how you say No Tip

    And you’re tipping someone who literally just pressed a button on a till or scanned your jerky
    Wow seems bonkers although this time round I won't indeed be buying beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee but thanks for the heads up.

    And speaking of the square states I will always remember fondly when as a starter in Kentucky one time I ordered "Potato skins" and was brought sixteen full halves of potato (so eight potatoes in all), not hollowed out but deep fried and then slathered in all the stuff you would expect, sour cream, bacon, whatnot.

    As a starter. I then had the burger.

    Bliss.
    I do love the flyover states. Lost roads in Alabama or Arkansas or Mississippi

    You can get lost in America - in your own car - like nowhere else on earth
    For me what is so interesting is the road trip from Lexington to Cumberland Gap. In Lexington it is all white picket fences, immaculately manicured paddocks and "horse farms" as they call them ie tons of money. As you head south you see people selling their socks on the porch, literally dirt poor.
    Tennessee is a surprisingly wonderful place (despite the usual American woes)

    Glorious untouched countryside. Much of it overlooked by travellers

    Reminds me of Aveyron in France
    When I went *** ******* in Kentucky it was easy to think of what pre-industrial rural Britain would have been like. Grass for as far as you can see, untouched as you say, and seemingly without end.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864

    With Trump winning, does this mean we have to take Prince Harry back?

    No, they may go to Portugal
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/royals/article-14032483/Meghan-Prince-Harrys-Portugal-investing-Netflix-millions-property-portfolio.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    darkage said:

    Nigelb said:

    Yep.
    Will Labour get this, or not ?

    "Britain’s HS2 rail line spent £100mn building an arch over the railway to protect overflying bats from hitting its trains.

    "Thompson, who became chair in 2023, said the bat measure was just one of 8,276 consents HS2 needed."

    High infrastructure costs are a policy choice.

    https://x.com/Sam_Dumitriu/status/1854518510082306063

    Retained EU legislation which the tories kept after Brexit.
    Actually, it doesn't appear that it was.
    Also, note the contribution to delay as well as the cost.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/nov/07/cost-of-shed-to-protect-bat-colony-near-hs2-has-topped-100m-chair-says
    ...He said the “bat shed” was his favourite example of the problems caused. Thompson said the Bechstein’s bat was not protected elsewhere and “generally pretty available in most of northern Europe, western Europe. But nevertheless, under the Wildlife Act, 1981, it’s deemed to be a protected species in the UK, this bat, even though there’s lots of them.”

    Thomson added: “No evidence, by the way, that high speed trains interfere with bats, but leave it on one side.”

    HS2 had to obtain a licence from Natural England, which approved the bat mitigation structure, before asking planning permission from Buckinghamshire county council, he said.

    “So when we go to [the] council and say: ‘Would you like to give us planning permission for this blot on the landscape that costs £100m’, of course, the answer to that is, you’ve got to be joking, right? Why would [they] like this eyesore?

    “So now I’ve got two different bodies. One says I have to do it. The other one says: ‘No chance’. So what do you do? I reach for the lawyers and the environmental specialists and hydrologists and so on and so forth. It stretches out the time. I spend hundreds of thousands of pounds trying to do something, and then in the end, I win the planning commission by going over [the county council’s] head.”..
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,379
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:
    Bryson Dechambeau, the well-known golf player, was part of Trump's victory do.
    May he get the yips and never win another tournament.
    Nice to see you've changed that avatar.
    Where are the beans ??!!
    They'll be back but I'm not exactly full of them atm.
    Well done you for showing up after the election result. Not everyone, after making such a monumental tool of themselves, would have returned so soon after the event.
    A few hours kip works wonders.

    To be fair it's 72,701,692 (and counting) people over the pond who've made tools of themselves. Except, no, that is not fair. It's victim blaming. Donald Trump is a conman extraordinaire.

    In any case it's their prerogative, isn't it. It was a free and fair election and this is who they want as their president. Just as individuals have the right to make bad choices so do countries.
    Well that's as maybe but on this site we are supposed to bring dispassionate and incisive analysis to these kind of situations so I'm ever so slightly disappointed to see that you are trying to blame others for your failure in this regard.
    I'm not sure that @kinabalu did make a "monumental tool" of himself. He thought Kamala would win. She did not. It's an error but it reaches the threshold for "well that was a bit dumb", not "you're a monumental tool".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    Leon said:

    Trump talks to Macron before Starmer. Cold revenge

    This Labour government is so utterly useless

    Economically Macron is right of Starmer and less woke albeit neither are keen on Trump's tariffs and both wary of Trump's less hostile approach to Putin
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    viewcode said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:
    Bryson Dechambeau, the well-known golf player, was part of Trump's victory do.
    May he get the yips and never win another tournament.
    Nice to see you've changed that avatar.
    Where are the beans ??!!
    They'll be back but I'm not exactly full of them atm.
    Well done you for showing up after the election result. Not everyone, after making such a monumental tool of themselves, would have returned so soon after the event.
    A few hours kip works wonders.

    To be fair it's 72,701,692 (and counting) people over the pond who've made tools of themselves. Except, no, that is not fair. It's victim blaming. Donald Trump is a conman extraordinaire.

    In any case it's their prerogative, isn't it. It was a free and fair election and this is who they want as their president. Just as individuals have the right to make bad choices so do countries.
    Well that's as maybe but on this site we are supposed to bring dispassionate and incisive analysis to these kind of situations so I'm ever so slightly disappointed to see that you are trying to blame others for your failure in this regard.
    I'm not sure that @kinabalu did make a "monumental tool" of himself. He thought Kamala would win. She did not. It's an error but it reaches the threshold for "well that was a bit dumb", not "you're a monumental tool".
    Topping likes his needly banter. Misses the barracks, I think.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    I see progressivist educational liturgy is now at the heart of government policy:

    "Schools should end their ‘tunnel vision’ on exam results and think about student wellbeing more, Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson is expected to say today."

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/nov/06/phillipson-to-ask-schools-to-end-exam-tunnel-vision-and-look-to-wellbeing?status=Active&utm_medium=email&utm_source=CampaignMonitor_Editorial&utm_campaign=LNCH 20241107 House ads HT+CID_310fdaa8b6106fcdd6ed713af1dc02ea
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm heading over to NY shortly so I am hearing that I should be prepared for a tippeganza.

    If you’re used to posh bits of NYC you likely won’t notice a difference

    The change is the spread beyond the big glam cities and into every single possible transaction. Buy some beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee and your card transaction will have a tipping option - 15-30% - and it’s not obvious how you say No Tip

    And you’re tipping someone who literally just pressed a button on a till or scanned your jerky
    Wow seems bonkers although this time round I won't indeed be buying beef jerky in a gas station in Tennessee but thanks for the heads up.

    And speaking of the square states I will always remember fondly when as a starter in Kentucky one time I ordered "Potato skins" and was brought sixteen full halves of potato (so eight potatoes in all), not hollowed out but deep fried and then slathered in all the stuff you would expect, sour cream, bacon, whatnot.

    As a starter. I then had the burger.

    Bliss.
    I do love the flyover states. Lost roads in Alabama or Arkansas or Mississippi

    You can get lost in America - in your own car - like nowhere else on earth
    For me what is so interesting is the road trip from Lexington to Cumberland Gap. In Lexington it is all white picket fences, immaculately manicured paddocks and "horse farms" as they call them ie tons of money. As you head south you see people selling their socks on the porch, literally dirt poor.
    Tennessee is a surprisingly wonderful place (despite the usual American woes)

    Glorious untouched countryside. Much of it overlooked by travellers

    Reminds me of Aveyron in France
    When I went *** ******* in Kentucky it was easy to think of what pre-industrial rural Britain would have been like. Grass for as far as you can see, untouched as you say, and seemingly without end.
    I once spent a day working in our firm's office in Nashville, and a colleague came into my office wearing a sequinned cowboy hat.

    I agree the rustic scenery in Tennessee is rather bucolic. As soon as you get into Alabama it changes somewhat. From clapperboarded churches and white picket fences to cotton fields and trailers.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:
    Bryson Dechambeau, the well-known golf player, was part of Trump's victory do.
    May he get the yips and never win another tournament.
    Nice to see you've changed that avatar.
    Where are the beans ??!!
    They'll be back but I'm not exactly full of them atm.
    Well done you for showing up after the election result. Not everyone, after making such a monumental tool of themselves, would have returned so soon after the event.
    A few hours kip works wonders.

    To be fair it's 72,701,692 (and counting) people over the pond who've made tools of themselves. Except, no, that is not fair. It's victim blaming. Donald Trump is a conman extraordinaire.

    In any case it's their prerogative, isn't it. It was a free and fair election and this is who they want as their president. Just as individuals have the right to make bad choices so do countries.
    Well that's as maybe but on this site we are supposed to bring dispassionate and incisive analysis to these kind of situations so I'm ever so slightly disappointed to see that you are trying to blame others for your failure in this regard.
    So we have that - disappointment - in common at least.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    kinabalu said:

    viewcode said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:
    Bryson Dechambeau, the well-known golf player, was part of Trump's victory do.
    May he get the yips and never win another tournament.
    Nice to see you've changed that avatar.
    Where are the beans ??!!
    They'll be back but I'm not exactly full of them atm.
    Well done you for showing up after the election result. Not everyone, after making such a monumental tool of themselves, would have returned so soon after the event.
    A few hours kip works wonders.

    To be fair it's 72,701,692 (and counting) people over the pond who've made tools of themselves. Except, no, that is not fair. It's victim blaming. Donald Trump is a conman extraordinaire.

    In any case it's their prerogative, isn't it. It was a free and fair election and this is who they want as their president. Just as individuals have the right to make bad choices so do countries.
    Well that's as maybe but on this site we are supposed to bring dispassionate and incisive analysis to these kind of situations so I'm ever so slightly disappointed to see that you are trying to blame others for your failure in this regard.
    I'm not sure that @kinabalu did make a "monumental tool" of himself. He thought Kamala would win. She did not. It's an error but it reaches the threshold for "well that was a bit dumb", not "you're a monumental tool".
    Topping likes his needly banter. Misses the barracks, I think.
    LOL I think monumental tool sums it up quite well.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173

    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    Bret Stephens, a conservative who reluctantly supported Harris, gives his verdict on where Dems need to go:


    "The Democratic Party at its best stands for fairness and freedom. But the politics of today’s left is heavy on social engineering according to group identity. It also, increasingly, stands for the forcible imposition of bizarre cultural norms on hundreds of millions of Americans who want to live and let live but don’t like being told how to speak or what to think. Too many liberals forgot this, which explains how a figure like Trump, with his boisterous and transgressive disdain for liberal pieties, could be re-elected to the presidency."


    "Right now, my larger fear is that liberals lack the introspection to see where they went wrong, the discipline to do better next time and the humility to change."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/06/opinion/donald-trump-defeat-democrats.html

    Spot on except for his use of 'liberal' in the US sense. Substitute 'liberal pieties' with 'left wing pieties'.
    No efforts on behalf of the right to enforce bizarre cultural norms on hundreds of millions of Americans, of course ?
    Still can't get my head around them using red for Republican, and blue for Democrat!

    Counter-intuitive or what?!
    The choice of one of the TV networks in the early days of color TV, I think ?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Trump talks to Macron before Starmer. Cold revenge

    This Labour government is so utterly useless

    Economically Macron is right of Starmer and less woke albeit neither are keen on Trump's tariffs and both wary of Trump's less hostile approach to Putin
    [Trump voice] "Commie Keir!"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "On 6 November, Olaf Scholz fired Christian Lindner as finance minister. The decision marks the formal end of the three-party coalition – between the Social Democrats (SDP), Greens and Free Democratic Party (FDP), the latter of which Lindner leads. Hr was fired after refusing to accept Scholz’s order to declare a state of fiscal emergency that would allow the government to bypass the rules of the debt brake, which limits the government’s ability to borrow money. Scholz went on national TV to declare that he wants to set aside money to support Ukraine, and for an increase in defence spending that has now become necessary after the victory of Trump. He also said he would not accept a trade-off of taking funds earmarked for social policies. This will be the theme of the election campaign – and the new dividing line in German politics."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/international-politics/2024/11/collapse-german-government-finance-minister

    Looks like Germany is returning to traditional dividing lines with the FDP joining the CDU in opposition and the SDP staying in power for now with the Greens.

    At the moment the AfD share though means neither block likely gets a majority at the next Federal election, so the likeliest outcome is another CDU and SPD grand coalition again as was the case from 2005-2009 and 2009-2021
    The SPD would surely be extremely reluctant to join another grand coalition as the junior partner. It could be the death of them. Is a CDU/CSU coalition with the AfD still out of the question?
    Zero chance of the CDU/CSU having anything at all to do with the AfD in this or the next parliament. If the SPD don't want (or maybe even if they do), CDU/CSU + Greens would be an alternative coalition - if they had the numbers. If Union + Greens isn't enough for a majority the SPD would (I'd assume) go into another grand coalition whether they want to or not.
    I would imagine the Greens would be even less willing to go into a grand coalition with the CDU/CSU ideologically than the SPD are
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,422

    .

    algarkirk said:

    On abortion, are there not lots of people who find boths extremes repellent? OTOH we have people saying 'Never', OTOH we have people basically speaking enthusiastically about what a great right it is to terminate unborn life because you want to in a context in which there are huge numbers of them, mostly entirely healthy.

    While articulating a middle way between these two feels both intrusive into private lives and individual suffering, and also hard to pitch rightly, I wonder whether quite a lot of people are put off by the extremes on both sides, and have a very strong instinct that it should be both allowable but also much less routine or common.

    One of these extremes only appears to exist as a fantasy. I've not seen the people enthusiastically calling for late abortions on a whim. I say that as someone steeped in the pro-choice movement (both parents + 1 godparent worked on the 1968 Abortion Act in the UK and the campaign leading up to it).

    The reality of late abortion is that it is something women only do in extreme and rare situations. I am very happy to leave those difficult decisions up to the women involved and their healthcare teams. That's basically the approach that works in the UK. Late abortions are very rare; women aren't dying because healthcare staff are scared of being jailed (as now happens regularly in the US).
    Do you have a source for that last claim?
    We know restrictive abortion laws increase maternal mortality from various past studies, e.g. Farin et al. (2024, https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/pol.20220208 ), and indeed also on infant mortality, e.g. Burdick et al. (2024, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0749379723004087 ).

    Govern et al. (2024; https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.q1729 ) in the BMJ summarise the current US situation, although teasing out the effect of COVID-19 and changes in the law are complicated.

    There are plenty of individual cases being reported regularly, e.g. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amber-thurman-delayed-abortion-georgia/ , https://www.propublica.org/article/nevaeh-crain-death-texas-abortion-ban-emtala , https://msmagazine.com/2024/11/04/women-die-abortion-ban-elections-vote/
    Without commenting on the rights and wrongs of the abortion law for that first case, that article jumps to a lot of conclusions about what was not an abortion but possibly poorer care following an abortion taken in a nine week pregnancy with a pill.
    Not really what is claimed.
    I'm genuinely surprised that medics don't give life-saving help and to hell with the risk of a jury convicting them.

    It probably ends up being down to them having no insurance though...
    It’s not all about immediate crisis situations. It can be about someone has a problem, but isn’t imminently at risk, so you put off doing something because of the legal environment. But those delays increase the risks.
    But women with sepsis being sent home because a doctor won't do a D&C because it might look like they have performed an abortion is just hideously wrong on so many levels. How does it sit wth the hippocratic oath?

    "Avoid causing harm: Do not intentionally harm patients, and do not give them lethal drugs or abortifacients."

    Is sending someone home to die in breach of the oath? Especially when they cannot administer anything that would cause an abortion?
    Its all utter conjecture.
    You've been presented with ample evidence that it's a real issue.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    MaxPB said:

    https://x.com/MichaelJStern1/status/1854151798421913732

    Michael J. Stern

    CNN has a story titled “where the Harris campaign went wrong.”

    Nope, I won’t read it.

    Harris ran a great campaign.

    The story should be titled “where the American people went wrong.”
    1:20 PM · Nov 6, 2024

    120k likes on that.

    If the Democrats spend the next 4 years blaming voters as they seem to want to do now then it's all over.

    Martin Kettle in the Guardian wins the prize for saying that American voters have done an “unforgivable” thing.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another thing that I know a lot of Americans are complaining about. Ticket prices for everything. With COVID shut downs, plus inflation, plus monopoly of LiveNation, ticket prices are insane in the US. And then the cost of everything at the venue, plus tip....

    People were moaning about £300 for Oasis here, I think most Americans would be going, wow, that's cheap.

    And cheap motels. Motel 6 etc. Which used to be $50 and are suddenly $250 (plus tips)

    Turning the great American road trip - a wonderful demotic thing - into a luxury (which is tragic)
    And don't get me started on AirBnB.....Nightly Rate $199, plus cleaning fee, plus the fee on the cleaning fee, plus transaction fee, plus credit card fee on the transaction fee, plus the tax, plus the tip, plus the fine for not putting the garbage the correct 27 different bins each night you stay....that will be $499.
    Yes. Oh god yes. I’ve had the same experience. Hideous and blatant gouging. Fuck them

    I seriously have no great desire to return to the USA unless it is some gilded press trip and I get a personal robot butler (who doesn’t require tips)
    Mrs U and I over the years have needed to go to the US a lot for work and often for extended periods. 10 years ago we would always tack on a trip, to see friends, family or just hang out and do tourism. Whichever partner wasn't out there, often join them for this.

    We haven't done that since COVID because of the cost of it, and we are fortunate to earn good money. I can't see how Joe Bloggs, who used to take the family to Florida to see Mickey Mouse, is affording that these days.
    They seem to afford their football season tickets.
    A family day out in Fascist Mouse Land is now more than a football season ticket (obviously unless you want Starmer level seats)....especially if you actually want to go on all the rides, because you have to buy the premium queue jumper ticket.

    Magic Kingdom with lightening lane pass is $450 per person in peak season...for a single day. Then obviously they want all the fizzy drinks, candy, a toy.
    If I have it right Football Season tickets for the Premiership and League One vary between about £500 and £3000.

    TBF Accrington Stanley are a bit less than that.

    I assume those prices do not include the pies.

    Accrington Stanley? Who are they?
    I have a vague feeling of being ambushed here, so I'm holding my peace.
    It was a line from an advert for milk in the 70/80s. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPFrTBppRfw
    Young Casino: Fancy a drink?
    Young Sunil: Got any Quorn?
    Young Casino: If you want.
    [goes to fridge and takes a bottle of Quorn for Sunil, and a bottle of meat for himself]
    Young Sunil: Meat? UGH!
    Young Casino: It's what Ian Rush drinks!
    Young Sunil: Ian Rush??
    Young Casino: Yeah, and he said, when I grow up, if I didn't drink lots of meat, I wouldn't be good enough to play for the Liberal Democrats!
    Young Sunil: Liberal Democrats? Who are they?
    Young Casino: Exactly!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    Nigelb said:

    darkage said:

    Nigelb said:

    Yep.
    Will Labour get this, or not ?

    "Britain’s HS2 rail line spent £100mn building an arch over the railway to protect overflying bats from hitting its trains.

    "Thompson, who became chair in 2023, said the bat measure was just one of 8,276 consents HS2 needed."

    High infrastructure costs are a policy choice.

    https://x.com/Sam_Dumitriu/status/1854518510082306063

    Retained EU legislation which the tories kept after Brexit.
    Actually, it doesn't appear that it was.
    Also, note the contribution to delay as well as the cost.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/nov/07/cost-of-shed-to-protect-bat-colony-near-hs2-has-topped-100m-chair-says
    ...He said the “bat shed” was his favourite example of the problems caused. Thompson said the Bechstein’s bat was not protected elsewhere and “generally pretty available in most of northern Europe, western Europe. But nevertheless, under the Wildlife Act, 1981, it’s deemed to be a protected species in the UK, this bat, even though there’s lots of them.”

    Thomson added: “No evidence, by the way, that high speed trains interfere with bats, but leave it on one side.”

    HS2 had to obtain a licence from Natural England, which approved the bat mitigation structure, before asking planning permission from Buckinghamshire county council, he said.

    “So when we go to [the] council and say: ‘Would you like to give us planning permission for this blot on the landscape that costs £100m’, of course, the answer to that is, you’ve got to be joking, right? Why would [they] like this eyesore?

    “So now I’ve got two different bodies. One says I have to do it. The other one says: ‘No chance’. So what do you do? I reach for the lawyers and the environmental specialists and hydrologists and so on and so forth. It stretches out the time. I spend hundreds of thousands of pounds trying to do something, and then in the end, I win the planning commission by going over [the county council’s] head.”..
    Does any other nation on earth bother with this nonsense ? I mean it's a bat. HS2 doesn't pass through that often; the bats might fly into the tunnel and still get hit by the train.
  • HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Trump talks to Macron before Starmer. Cold revenge

    This Labour government is so utterly useless

    Economically Macron is right of Starmer and less woke albeit neither are keen on Trump's tariffs and both wary of Trump's less hostile approach to Putin
    Under Trump’s first presidency his first state visit was to France (two years before the UK one - if I can correctly recall - sure Trump loved the parade put on for him). So obviously the Tories “were so utterly useless” then? Or maybe the order of calls or indeed visits is not massively important. It’s the deeds that matter.

    Also I seem to recall last time Trump took a call from Taiwan - somewhat annoying China / and presumably against the advice of the US diplomatic apparatus who still cling to the “One China” Nixonian approach.

    Trump does what Trump does
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,896
    viewcode said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:
    Bryson Dechambeau, the well-known golf player, was part of Trump's victory do.
    May he get the yips and never win another tournament.
    Nice to see you've changed that avatar.
    Where are the beans ??!!
    They'll be back but I'm not exactly full of them atm.
    Well done you for showing up after the election result. Not everyone, after making such a monumental tool of themselves, would have returned so soon after the event.
    A few hours kip works wonders.

    To be fair it's 72,701,692 (and counting) people over the pond who've made tools of themselves. Except, no, that is not fair. It's victim blaming. Donald Trump is a conman extraordinaire.

    In any case it's their prerogative, isn't it. It was a free and fair election and this is who they want as their president. Just as individuals have the right to make bad choices so do countries.
    Well that's as maybe but on this site we are supposed to bring dispassionate and incisive analysis to these kind of situations so I'm ever so slightly disappointed to see that you are trying to blame others for your failure in this regard.
    I'm not sure that @kinabalu did make a "monumental tool" of himself. He thought Kamala would win. She did not. It's an error but it reaches the threshold for "well that was a bit dumb", not "you're a monumental tool".
    Kinabalu had been very vocal, for a very long time, about his confidence that Trump wouldn't be a candidate in the election that he's now won.

    I think he knows that it's fair he receives a bit of ribbing for that now.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,897
    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    Bret Stephens, a conservative who reluctantly supported Harris, gives his verdict on where Dems need to go:


    "The Democratic Party at its best stands for fairness and freedom. But the politics of today’s left is heavy on social engineering according to group identity. It also, increasingly, stands for the forcible imposition of bizarre cultural norms on hundreds of millions of Americans who want to live and let live but don’t like being told how to speak or what to think. Too many liberals forgot this, which explains how a figure like Trump, with his boisterous and transgressive disdain for liberal pieties, could be re-elected to the presidency."


    "Right now, my larger fear is that liberals lack the introspection to see where they went wrong, the discipline to do better next time and the humility to change."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/06/opinion/donald-trump-defeat-democrats.html

    Spot on except for his use of 'liberal' in the US sense. Substitute 'liberal pieties' with 'left wing pieties'.
    No efforts on behalf of the right to enforce bizarre cultural norms on hundreds of millions of Americans, of course ?
    My God says you need to bleed to death in the delivery room, soz.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,720
    edited November 7
    Nigelb said:

    darkage said:

    Nigelb said:

    Yep.
    Will Labour get this, or not ?

    "Britain’s HS2 rail line spent £100mn building an arch over the railway to protect overflying bats from hitting its trains.

    "Thompson, who became chair in 2023, said the bat measure was just one of 8,276 consents HS2 needed."

    High infrastructure costs are a policy choice.

    https://x.com/Sam_Dumitriu/status/1854518510082306063

    Retained EU legislation which the tories kept after Brexit.
    Actually, it doesn't appear that it was.
    Also, note the contribution to delay as well as the cost.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/nov/07/cost-of-shed-to-protect-bat-colony-near-hs2-has-topped-100m-chair-says
    ...He said the “bat shed” was his favourite example of the problems caused. Thompson said the Bechstein’s bat was not protected elsewhere and “generally pretty available in most of northern Europe, western Europe. But nevertheless, under the Wildlife Act, 1981, it’s deemed to be a protected species in the UK, this bat, even though there’s lots of them.”

    Thomson added: “No evidence, by the way, that high speed trains interfere with bats, but leave it on one side.”

    HS2 had to obtain a licence from Natural England, which approved the bat mitigation structure, before asking planning permission from Buckinghamshire county council, he said.

    “So when we go to [the] council and say: ‘Would you like to give us planning permission for this blot on the landscape that costs £100m’, of course, the answer to that is, you’ve got to be joking, right? Why would [they] like this eyesore?

    “So now I’ve got two different bodies. One says I have to do it. The other one says: ‘No chance’. So what do you do? I reach for the lawyers and the environmental specialists and hydrologists and so on and so forth. It stretches out the time. I spend hundreds of thousands of pounds trying to do something, and then in the end, I win the planning commission by going over [the county council’s] head.”..
    They are definitely a European protected species.

    If you make a clearing in a woodland to put a railway through, they will almost certainly fly up and down it.

    However - for £100m you could do some serious habitat restoration elsewhere. Would using even a 1/10th of that to plant or manage some woodland for bats elsewhere be better than some ridiculously expensive bodge that might save a few individuals?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    Bret Stephens, a conservative who reluctantly supported Harris, gives his verdict on where Dems need to go:


    "The Democratic Party at its best stands for fairness and freedom. But the politics of today’s left is heavy on social engineering according to group identity. It also, increasingly, stands for the forcible imposition of bizarre cultural norms on hundreds of millions of Americans who want to live and let live but don’t like being told how to speak or what to think. Too many liberals forgot this, which explains how a figure like Trump, with his boisterous and transgressive disdain for liberal pieties, could be re-elected to the presidency."


    "Right now, my larger fear is that liberals lack the introspection to see where they went wrong, the discipline to do better next time and the humility to change."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/06/opinion/donald-trump-defeat-democrats.html

    Spot on except for his use of 'liberal' in the US sense. Substitute 'liberal pieties' with 'left wing pieties'.
    No efforts on behalf of the right to enforce bizarre cultural norms on hundreds of millions of Americans, of course ?
    Still can't get my head around them using red for Republican, and blue for Democrat!

    Counter-intuitive or what?!
    The choice of one of the TV networks in the early days of color TV, I think ?
    Time they changed it! Surely the Donald can sort that one out? :lol:
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,897

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Trump talks to Macron before Starmer. Cold revenge

    This Labour government is so utterly useless

    Economically Macron is right of Starmer and less woke albeit neither are keen on Trump's tariffs and both wary of Trump's less hostile approach to Putin
    Under Trump’s first presidency his first state visit was to France (two years before the UK one - if I can correctly recall - sure Trump loved the parade put on for him). So obviously the Tories “were so utterly useless” then? Or maybe the order of calls or indeed visits is not massively important. It’s the deeds that matter.

    Also I seem to recall last time Trump took a call from Taiwan - somewhat annoying China / and presumably against the advice of the US diplomatic apparatus who still cling to the “One China” Nixonian approach.

    Trump does what Trump does
    France is the US's oldest ally, united by a common enemy.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    edited November 7

    Nigelb said:

    Yep.
    Will Labour get this, or not ?

    "Britain’s HS2 rail line spent £100mn building an arch over the railway to protect overflying bats from hitting its trains.

    "Thompson, who became chair in 2023, said the bat measure was just one of 8,276 consents HS2 needed."

    High infrastructure costs are a policy choice.

    https://x.com/Sam_Dumitriu/status/1854518510082306063

    That's bats.
    That's batty.
This discussion has been closed.