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The future’s bad, the future’s orange – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,183
edited November 20 in General
The future’s bad, the future’s orange – politicalbetting.com

SNAP POLL / 57% of Britons are unhappy about Donald Trump's victory in the US presidential electionVery unhappy: 45%Fairly unhappy: 12%Neither happy nor unhappy: 19%Fairly happy: 9%Very happy: 11%https://t.co/DbiCfV9Jdj pic.twitter.com/dEQ0wAAE6S

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Comments

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,381
    SAD
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,819
    Well done TSE - an excellent header title :)
  • Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,887
    Trump's emphatic win gives him an undeniable legitimacy that should avoid much of the psychodrama of his first term driven by people who didn't think he had any right to be president.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,963
    Omnium said:

    Well done TSE - an excellent header title :)

    Trump 292 EVs
    Kamala 224 EVs

    :innocent:
  • Omnium said:

    Well done TSE - an excellent header title :)

    It dawned on me last week that next year will be 30 years since my first mobile phone.

    I was nostalgic for Orange, Cellnet, One2One, and Vodafone.
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,442
    edited November 6

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    Of course not. The campaign just gone has proven the PB herd just doesn't get what the average American really wants.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    It's pointless us getting upset by it and bleating and crying that it's unfair, heartbreaking and the end of the world. Enough Americans seemingly want what Trump is offering and everyone else just has to suck it up.

    Let’s hope he gives it to them good and hard ! I doubt it , just like the wall it was all a load of hot air which his supporters will forgive because that’s what they do .
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,742
    edited November 6

    It's pointless us getting upset by it and bleating and crying that it's unfair, heartbreaking and the end of the world. Enough Americans seemingly want what Trump is offering and everyone else just has to suck it up.

    It’s not unfair.

    He won fair and square. It’s what America wants.

    Personally I think he is an utterly appalling person and totally unfit but America thinks differently. They’ve given him a mandate to govern as he wants.

    For their sake, I hope he is successful.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,819

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    Harris really was great. Still is! Biden rather sailed the ship into the rocks, but the deciding factor was that Americans decided they'd like a bit more of Trump. Nuts from a European view, but that's what it was.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,893

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    Of course not. The campaign just gone has proven the PB herd just doesn't get what the average American really wants?
    Sadly that is true and it confirms my original post about what people will turn a blind eye to if necessary.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,667

    It's pointless us getting upset by it and bleating and crying that it's unfair, heartbreaking and the end of the world. Enough Americans seemingly want what Trump is offering and everyone else just has to suck it up.

    Could not agree more. The cards have been dealt, we now have to play them.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,819

    Omnium said:

    Well done TSE - an excellent header title :)

    It dawned on me last week that next year will be 30 years since my first mobile phone.

    I was nostalgic for Orange, Cellnet, One2One, and Vodafone.
    Odd how these things linger - 'You can be sure of Shell' came to mind the other day.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,194
    edited November 6
    Omnium said:

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    Harris really was great. Still is! Biden rather sailed the ship into the rocks, but the deciding factor was that Americans decided they'd like a bit more of Trump. Nuts from a European view, but that's what it was.
    Am I correct in thinking that the total number of votes went down, it's just that Kamala's went down more?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Omnium said:

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    Harris really was great. Still is! Biden rather sailed the ship into the rocks, but the deciding factor was that Americans decided they'd like a bit more of Trump. Nuts from a European view, but that's what it was.
    I thought she did well and had a smile that was so joyous and uplifting. Biden really didn’t help much and at times seemed to be working for the Trump campaign .
  • If Harris’s went down more it rather suggests that there simply was very little enthusiasm for her. Corbyn 2019 vibes.

    A friend who voted for Harris - she is American - said Harris was a bad candidate several months ago. I think she was onto something.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,667

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    Of course not. The campaign just gone has proven the PB herd just doesn't get what the average American really wants.

    Yep - we are a pretty regular European country. The US is very, very different.

  • eekeek Posts: 28,444
    Completely offtopic - but the F1 Vegas race doesn't look like a complete sell out - I've just had an email offering 30% off grandstand tickets..
  • Villa should be kicked out of the Premier League.

    That from Tyrone Mings is a national embarrassment.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,068

    It's pointless us getting upset by it and bleating and crying that it's unfair, heartbreaking and the end of the world. Enough Americans seemingly want what Trump is offering and everyone else just has to suck it up.

    Could not agree more. The cards have been dealt, we now have to play them.

    The die is cast; the game is afoot; the train has left the station; the ship has sailed; the gauntlet has been laid down.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,910
    For @CorrectHorseBattery and any other curious souls who simply cannot understand how people can vote for Trump, but would like to: I have just reread the article below. It was written eight years ago, but all of it still applies. Despite the title, it is a thoughtful and nuanced piece from the POV of the red counties. I recommend it:
    https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,900
    TimS said:

    It's pointless us getting upset by it and bleating and crying that it's unfair, heartbreaking and the end of the world. Enough Americans seemingly want what Trump is offering and everyone else just has to suck it up.

    Could not agree more. The cards have been dealt, we now have to play them.

    The die is cast; the game is afoot; the train has left the station; the ship has sailed; the gauntlet has been laid down.

    "There is no doubt about what has happened. This is Donald Trump's country."

    Micheal Wolff
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,667
    TimS said:

    It's pointless us getting upset by it and bleating and crying that it's unfair, heartbreaking and the end of the world. Enough Americans seemingly want what Trump is offering and everyone else just has to suck it up.

    Could not agree more. The cards have been dealt, we now have to play them.

    The die is cast; the game is afoot; the train has left the station; the ship has sailed; the gauntlet has been laid down.
    Forward, never back

    I think "the ship has sailed" is inappropriate for the stoic forbearance I am trying to convey.

  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    Sitting governor plus completely ignore Trump, driving him to distraction and causing him to implode?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,083
    edited November 6

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    Kamala's campaign should have won if judged by British conventional wisdom. She spent a lot more money; ran a lot more adverts; and had a lot more activists out canvassing.

    And that is how, six months ago, Labour had a landslide on fewer votes than Corbyn, and the LibDems won dozens more seats than Reform on half a million less votes.

    Kamala won, or "won", both the air war and ground war. Yet she lost.

    So conventional wisdom is wrong.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,910

    If Harris’s went down more it rather suggests that there simply was very little enthusiasm for her. Corbyn 2019 vibes.

    A friend who voted for Harris - she is American - said Harris was a bad candidate several months ago. I think she was onto something.

    That's entirely my view. This was a Corbyn vs Johnson battle. We know the blond haired buffoon is a klutz. But we prefer him to whatever weird shit we fear the other guy might be offering.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,819
    edited November 6
    TimS said:

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    Of course not. The campaign just gone has proven the PB herd just doesn't get what the average American really wants.
    Except that a significant number of people on PB were predicting a Trump victory and/or that it would be close. There were some noisy posters confidently predicting a Harris victory, but I’d hardly say that the site was heeding.

    In fact, all things considered we were probably on average about as right or wrong as the US political punditocracy.
    This is anyway Political Betting rather than Political Prediction dot com.

    I flat out thought that Harris would romp home, and I thought that well before Biden pulled out, but I wasn't fool enough not to see the signs that I was wrong, and finished up with a modest sort of a profit, and not quite the grand smile that a 25-1 winner might have yielded.

    Edit: So I can bet reasonably well, but my prediction skills aren't great.
  • Trump's emphatic win gives him an undeniable legitimacy that should avoid much of the psychodrama of his first term driven by people who didn't think he had any right to be president.

    Indeed. He absolutely has an emphatic mandate, the US owns Trump and all his works.

    Though I suspect a couple of years from now there will be a lot of Trump voters who are quite surprised when, having elected a leopard, are quite surprised when it turns round and eats their face..
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,949
    Cookie said:

    For @CorrectHorseBattery and any other curious souls who simply cannot understand how people can vote for Trump, but would like to: I have just reread the article below. It was written eight years ago, but all of it still applies. Despite the title, it is a thoughtful and nuanced piece from the POV of the red counties. I recommend it:
    https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about

    Its the dominant theme of US, anglo and possibly western politics for the last decade. People talk about it all the time!
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,068
    nico679 said:

    Omnium said:

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    Harris really was great. Still is! Biden rather sailed the ship into the rocks, but the deciding factor was that Americans decided they'd like a bit more of Trump. Nuts from a European view, but that's what it was.
    I thought she did well and had a smile that was so joyous and uplifting. Biden really didn’t help much and at times seemed to be working for the Trump campaign .
    I like her. Seems a genuinely appealing character. But perhaps lacking the confidence, the plain English sales patter, that could help her get her vision and policies across to the public. Too many rallies not enough studio interviews. That’s what is so impressive about Buttigieg, especially when he’s in the lion’s den at Fox News, and it’s something both Blair and Cameron had, and Clinton (Bill) too.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,083
    Omnium said:

    TimS said:

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    Of course not. The campaign just gone has proven the PB herd just doesn't get what the average American really wants.
    Except that a significant number of people on PB were predicting a Trump victory and/or that it would be close. There were some noisy posters confidently predicting a Harris victory, but I’d hardly say that the site was heeding.

    In fact, all things considered we were probably on average about as right or wrong as the US political punditocracy.
    This is anyway Political Betting rather than Political Prediction dot com.

    I flat out thought that Harris would romp home, and I thought that well before Biden pulled out, but I wasn't fool enough not to see the signs that I was wrong, and finished up with a modest sort of a profit, and not quite the grand smile that a 25-1 winner might have yielded.

    Edit: So I can bet reasonably well, but my prediction skills aren't great.
    Something similar here. I made about a hundred instead of a couple of thousand, but remember Trump had been favourite in the betting for some time. Let us not pretend everyone was caught off guard.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,242
    Cookie said:

    For @CorrectHorseBattery and any other curious souls who simply cannot understand how people can vote for Trump, but would like to: I have just reread the article below. It was written eight years ago, but all of it still applies. Despite the title, it is a thoughtful and nuanced piece from the POV of the red counties. I recommend it:
    https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about

    That's an excellent article, thanks Cookie.
  • Villa should be kicked out of the Premier League.

    That from Tyrone Mings is a national embarrassment.

    Here's footage.

    https://x.com/footballontnt/status/1854238345808716268
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,893

    Omnium said:

    TimS said:

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    Of course not. The campaign just gone has proven the PB herd just doesn't get what the average American really wants.
    Except that a significant number of people on PB were predicting a Trump victory and/or that it would be close. There were some noisy posters confidently predicting a Harris victory, but I’d hardly say that the site was heeding.

    In fact, all things considered we were probably on average about as right or wrong as the US political punditocracy.
    This is anyway Political Betting rather than Political Prediction dot com.

    I flat out thought that Harris would romp home, and I thought that well before Biden pulled out, but I wasn't fool enough not to see the signs that I was wrong, and finished up with a modest sort of a profit, and not quite the grand smile that a 25-1 winner might have yielded.

    Edit: So I can bet reasonably well, but my prediction skills aren't great.
    Something similar here. I made about a hundred instead of a couple of thousand, but remember Trump had been favourite in the betting for some time. Let us not pretend everyone was caught off guard.
    I'm glad I don't gamble to be honest.

    :wink:
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,910

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    Just about.

    1) Joe Biden announces c. 2022 that he won't be seeking a second term.
    2) There is a proper Democratic primary contest.
    3) The above is won by someone from neither coast who is reliably normal. (My view was always Whitmer or possibly Buttiegieg, but I've only just become aware of Shapiro and frankly it should definitely have been him.)
    4) The above candidate manages to present as suitably 'change' from Biden.
    5) Trump doesn't successfully adapt to the new opponent.
    6) Nothing else goes wrong.
  • Sell me on Buttigieg.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,068

    Cookie said:

    For @CorrectHorseBattery and any other curious souls who simply cannot understand how people can vote for Trump, but would like to: I have just reread the article below. It was written eight years ago, but all of it still applies. Despite the title, it is a thoughtful and nuanced piece from the POV of the red counties. I recommend it:
    https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about

    Its the dominant theme of US, anglo and possibly western politics for the last decade. People talk about it all the time!
    They do indeed, yet nobody’s really able to translate it into policies that are not either unworkable cakeism - low taxes, no waiting lists, world beating infrastructure but no building on green belt etc - or literal time travel to a simpler era when men were men and there were only white babies.

    But that’s perhaps because it’s about vibes, and by that I mean respect. It’s probably the biggest challenge to all politicians but particularly those of the non-populist centre: how do you show you respect your voters without wholesale adopting their mutually incompatible policy wish lists? It takes the art of a great communicator to do so.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,710

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    I think she lost because a lot of American voters don't like the idea of a female president, especially Latinos and some black men.
  • .

    It's pointless us getting upset by it and bleating and crying that it's unfair, heartbreaking and the end of the world. Enough Americans seemingly want what Trump is offering and everyone else just has to suck it up.

    It’s not unfair.

    He won fair and square. It’s what America wants.

    Personally I think he is an utterly appalling person and totally unfit but America thinks differently. They’ve given him a mandate to govern as he wants.

    For their sake, I hope he is successful.
    I don't often agree with you on much, but on this i wholeheartedly agree.

    I think the election of Trump is an unmitigated disaster, and shame on Americans for voting for him.

    It is in my eyes a disaster for Ukrainians, Americans and the world, in that order.

    However for everyone's sakes, I hope I'm wrong. Wrong about what a disaster he'll be, not wrong that he's unfit to be anywhere near elected office, 6 January 2021 proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
    You can think what you want, but 72 million Americans couldn't give a monkey's that you're ashamed of them and crying in your English house. Dry yer eyes, mate, and get on with your life.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,920

    It's pointless us getting upset by it and bleating and crying that it's unfair, heartbreaking and the end of the world. Enough Americans seemingly want what Trump is offering and everyone else just has to suck it up.

    It’s not unfair.

    He won fair and square. It’s what America wants.

    Personally I think he is an utterly appalling person and totally unfit but America thinks differently. They’ve given him a mandate to govern as he wants.

    For their sake, I hope he is successful.
    I don't often agree with you on much, but on this i wholeheartedly agree.

    I think the election of Trump is an unmitigated disaster, and shame on Americans for voting for him.

    It is in my eyes a disaster for Ukrainians, Americans and the world, in that order.

    However for everyone's sakes, I hope I'm wrong. Wrong about what a disaster he'll be, not wrong that he's unfit to be anywhere near elected office, 6 January 2021 proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
    And Trump gets what he really wanted.

    Special counsel Jack Smith expected to wind down Trump prosecutions: Sources
    https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/special-counsel-jack-smith-expected-wind-trump-prosecutions/story?id=115571646

    America is screwed.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,910
    Cookie said:

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    Just about.

    1) Joe Biden announces c. 2022 that he won't be seeking a second term.
    2) There is a proper Democratic primary contest.
    3) The above is won by someone from neither coast who is reliably normal. (My view was always Whitmer or possibly Buttiegieg, but I've only just become aware of Shapiro and frankly it should definitely have been him.)
    4) The above candidate manages to present as suitably 'change' from Biden.
    5) Trump doesn't successfully adapt to the new opponent.
    6) Nothing else goes wrong.
    However, if what you mean is 'starting from Harris's candidature': No.

    I've just thought of an upside to Trump's victory: we will not have to spend four years worrying about our awkwardness in possessivising Harris and Walz.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,893
    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Omnium said:

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    Harris really was great. Still is! Biden rather sailed the ship into the rocks, but the deciding factor was that Americans decided they'd like a bit more of Trump. Nuts from a European view, but that's what it was.
    I thought she did well and had a smile that was so joyous and uplifting. Biden really didn’t help much and at times seemed to be working for the Trump campaign .
    I like her. Seems a genuinely appealing character. But perhaps lacking the confidence, the plain English sales patter, that could help her get her vision and policies across to the public. Too many rallies not enough studio interviews. That’s what is so impressive about Buttigieg, especially when he’s in the lion’s den at Fox News, and it’s something both Blair and Cameron had, and Clinton (Bill) too.
    I think she suffered from not going through a primary season to toughen her up a bit. Biden should really have made it clear early on that he was only a one termer.
  • TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Omnium said:

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    Harris really was great. Still is! Biden rather sailed the ship into the rocks, but the deciding factor was that Americans decided they'd like a bit more of Trump. Nuts from a European view, but that's what it was.
    I thought she did well and had a smile that was so joyous and uplifting. Biden really didn’t help much and at times seemed to be working for the Trump campaign .
    I like her. Seems a genuinely appealing character. But perhaps lacking the confidence, the plain English sales patter, that could help her get her vision and policies across to the public. Too many rallies not enough studio interviews. That’s what is so impressive about Buttigieg, especially when he’s in the lion’s den at Fox News, and it’s something both Blair and Cameron had, and Clinton (Bill) too.
    I think she suffered from not going through a primary season to toughen her up a bit. Biden should really have made it clear early on that he was only a one termer.
    The thing is, he originally did. And then went back on it.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,910
    Andy_JS said:

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    I think she lost because a lot of American voters don't like the idea of a female president, especially Latinos and some black men.
    Though note her vote among women declined against Biden's equivalent four years ago. (I think?)
  • DeclanFDeclanF Posts: 42
    We really need odds on whether it will be the US Presidency or the Labour Party which will have a woman in the position first.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    Cookie said:

    Can PB formulate a Democratic campaign that could have defeated Trump?

    Just about.

    1) Joe Biden announces c. 2022 that he won't be seeking a second term.
    2) There is a proper Democratic primary contest.
    3) The above is won by someone from neither coast who is reliably normal. (My view was always Whitmer or possibly Buttiegieg, but I've only just become aware of Shapiro and frankly it should definitely have been him.)
    4) The above candidate manages to present as suitably 'change' from Biden.
    5) Trump doesn't successfully adapt to the new opponent.
    6) Nothing else goes wrong.
    It's simpler than that. They concentrate on the economy and have policies to help people with the cost of living. Abortion and 'securing democracy' are great things to campaign on when most of the voters you're after are not struggling to make ends meet.
  • My friend said Kamala “laughs at everything” and is a bit odd. I’m sure this didn’t make a difference but it does suggest that even women were not very enamoured with her.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Harris should have thrown Biden under a bus and said she had to support him out of loyalty , put some distance there .

    Certainly she was more than qualified to be President .

    The one thing that deeply worries me is this surge of young men becoming Tate followers , viewing the world as downtrodden men who apparently have to take back control from women . There was this undercurrent in the Trump campaign .

    Previously this group didn’t bother voting , now they do ! It’s political testosteronization .

    I think what’s become clear whether we want to accept it or not is governments have to do something about immigration and particularly illegal migration .

    We’re beginning to see an almost reverse aspect to society , from tribes protecting resources , to more open immigrant friendly societies and we’ve now gone into reverse back to the tribes .

    Unless we combat this bad actors will feed off this and we will pay a heavy price , because the othering won’t stop there .

  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,893

    It's pointless us getting upset by it and bleating and crying that it's unfair, heartbreaking and the end of the world. Enough Americans seemingly want what Trump is offering and everyone else just has to suck it up.

    It’s not unfair.

    He won fair and square. It’s what America wants.

    Personally I think he is an utterly appalling person and totally unfit but America thinks differently. They’ve given him a mandate to govern as he wants.

    For their sake, I hope he is successful.
    I don't often agree with you on much, but on this i wholeheartedly agree.

    I think the election of Trump is an unmitigated disaster, and shame on Americans for voting for him.

    It is in my eyes a disaster for Ukrainians, Americans and the world, in that order.

    However for everyone's sakes, I hope I'm wrong. Wrong about what a disaster he'll be, not wrong that he's unfit to be anywhere near elected office, 6 January 2021 proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
    I still think he should have been charged
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,900
    Ash Sarkar
    @AyoCaesar
    ·
    9h
    In the last 4 years, American food prices have gone up by 22%. Like I'm sorry, but running a campaign on the threat to democracy when people are unable to afford staple groceries was completely bonkers.

    https://x.com/AyoCaesar/status/1854097354065940488
  • DeclanF said:

    We really need odds on whether it will be the US Presidency or the Labour Party which will have a woman in the position first.

    Would a trans woman count for the purposes of this bet?
  • Villa should be kicked out of the Premier League.

    That from Tyrone Mings is a national embarrassment.

    Here's footage.

    https://x.com/footballontnt/status/1854238345808716268
    That is utterly crazy
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,401
    edited November 6
    Except if you are Farage and his voters it seems, in which case the future is a brighter shade of protectionist and nationalist Orange
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,556
    Sadly most people in Britain are stupid, credulous, and overconsumers of a certain strain of US media.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,401

    Ash Sarkar
    @AyoCaesar
    ·
    9h
    In the last 4 years, American food prices have gone up by 22%. Like I'm sorry, but running a campaign on the threat to democracy when people are unable to afford staple groceries was completely bonkers.

    https://x.com/AyoCaesar/status/1854097354065940488

    I am sure Trump's tariffs will help with that
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,505

    Sadly most people in Britain are stupid, credulous, and overconsumers of a certain strain of US media.

    Name some names Luckyguy!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,887
    Kamala concedes defeat.

    https://x.com/jacquiheinrich/status/1854231834395074860

    Vice President Harris called President-elect Trump to congratulate him on winning the 2024 presidential election, a campaign aide tells FOX.

    "She discussed the importance of a peaceful transfer of power and being a president for all Americans."

    The Vice President will deliver remarks at Howard University later today.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,893
    nico679 said:

    Harris should have thrown Biden under a bus and said she had to support him out of loyalty , put some distance there .

    Certainly she was more than qualified to be President .

    The one thing that deeply worries me is this surge of young men becoming Tate followers , viewing the world as downtrodden men who apparently have to take back control from women . There was this undercurrent in the Trump campaign .

    Previously this group didn’t bother voting , now they do ! It’s political testosteronization .

    I think what’s become clear whether we want to accept it or not is governments have to do something about immigration and particularly illegal migration .

    We’re beginning to see an almost reverse aspect to society , from tribes protecting resources , to more open immigrant friendly societies and we’ve now gone into reverse back to the tribes .

    Unless we combat this bad actors will feed off this and we will pay a heavy price , because the othering won’t stop there .

    Farage and Tice are waving at you....
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,949

    Ash Sarkar
    @AyoCaesar
    ·
    9h
    In the last 4 years, American food prices have gone up by 22%. Like I'm sorry, but running a campaign on the threat to democracy when people are unable to afford staple groceries was completely bonkers.

    https://x.com/AyoCaesar/status/1854097354065940488

    Whats the alternative? Govt food subsidies of 22%? I guess its surrender Ukraine for the good of global inflation.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,910

    Villa should be kicked out of the Premier League.

    That from Tyrone Mings is a national embarrassment.

    Here's footage.

    https://x.com/footballontnt/status/1854238345808716268
    Haha - chump. Reminiscent of the rugby player - David Campese? - who forgot to touch the ball down in his own in-goal area before hoiking it forward for the 22 drop out, thereby conceding international rugby's most-forward-ever pass and an attacking scrum five.
  • Sadly most people in Britain are stupid, credulous, and overconsumers of a certain strain of US media.

    That's the most self-reflective and self-critical comment you've ever written.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,893

    Sadly most people in Britain are stupid, credulous, and overconsumers of a certain strain of US media.

    Name some names Luckyguy!
    I think he should have stopped after the first comma
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,949

    It's pointless us getting upset by it and bleating and crying that it's unfair, heartbreaking and the end of the world. Enough Americans seemingly want what Trump is offering and everyone else just has to suck it up.

    It’s not unfair.

    He won fair and square. It’s what America wants.

    Personally I think he is an utterly appalling person and totally unfit but America thinks differently. They’ve given him a mandate to govern as he wants.

    For their sake, I hope he is successful.
    I don't often agree with you on much, but on this i wholeheartedly agree.

    I think the election of Trump is an unmitigated disaster, and shame on Americans for voting for him.

    It is in my eyes a disaster for Ukrainians, Americans and the world, in that order.

    However for everyone's sakes, I hope I'm wrong. Wrong about what a disaster he'll be, not wrong that he's unfit to be anywhere near elected office, 6 January 2021 proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
    I still think he should have been charged
    I am generally against electrocution but maybe.......
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,742
    edited November 6
    Ash Sarkar is always useless but she has touched on one key thing for me.

    Harris was seen as continuity Biden. And she never really did much to change this view. People said they can’t afford to eat and she had no answers.

    It’s very similar to what Sunak tried here by going on other issues.

    So no, I don’t think it’s the w word that lost this election. It’s Joe Biden and Harris.

    I am convinced by the idea of their choosing a governor instead.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,401
    edited November 6
    nico679 said:

    Harris should have thrown Biden under a bus and said she had to support him out of loyalty , put some distance there .

    Certainly she was more than qualified to be President .

    The one thing that deeply worries me is this surge of young men becoming Tate followers , viewing the world as downtrodden men who apparently have to take back control from women . There was this undercurrent in the Trump campaign .

    Previously this group didn’t bother voting , now they do ! It’s political testosteronization .

    I think what’s become clear whether we want to accept it or not is governments have to do something about immigration and particularly illegal migration .

    We’re beginning to see an almost reverse aspect to society , from tribes protecting resources , to more open immigrant friendly societies and we’ve now gone into reverse back to the tribes .

    Unless we combat this bad actors will feed off this and we will pay a heavy price , because the othering won’t stop there .

    Social media doesn't help, twitter/x in particular divides by tribes
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,667
    Apparently, the German government has just collapsed.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,194
    Isn't a lot of it simply people seeing the past through rose tinted specs, and thinking "things weren't that bad when Trump was president, things are worse now"

    The Democrats should have just run old clips of him saying things like "inject bleach to cure Covid" to remind people how shit he was.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,900

    Ash Sarkar is always useless but she has touched on one key thing for me.

    Harris was seen as continuity Biden. And she never really did much to change this view. People said they can’t afford to eat and she had no answers.

    It’s very similar to what Sunak tried here by going on other issues.

    So no, I don’t think it’s the w word that lost this election. It’s Joe Biden and Harris.

    I am convinced by the idea of their choosing a governor instead.

    imho they should have somehow made it possible for Sherrod Brown to be the candidate.

  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,694

    Villa should be kicked out of the Premier League.

    That from Tyrone Mings is a national embarrassment.

    Here's footage.

    https://x.com/footballontnt/status/1854238345808716268
    That is utterly crazy
    Martinez shouldn't really be passing the ball to someone who isn't looking.

    Deliberate handball though - should have been been a second yellow.


    Didn't Gabriel do something similar?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,920
    nico679 said:

    The one thing that deeply worries me is this surge of young men becoming Tate followers , viewing the world as downtrodden men who apparently have to take back control from women . There was this undercurrent in the Trump campaign .

    Previously this group didn’t bother voting , now they do ! It’s political testosteronization .

    As I've said repeatedly for many years now, perhaps social media and democracy are incompatible?

    30 years ago with the top-down media world of the time, when crazy ideas like facts and evidence mattered, the Trump candidacy would never have taken off. He would have been eviscerated by the press at the beginning, and most people would have accepted what they read, heard, or saw, that Trump is patently unfit for office.

    Nowadays Trump can bypass such scrutiny and lie his way to office, and not once but twice now.

    Somewhat ironically the only countries that might be safe from such demagoguery are those that are already one-party states or have strict control of the press and social media. Which of course is not really a solution for those of us who like liberal democracy.
  • HYUFD said:

    Ash Sarkar
    @AyoCaesar
    ·
    9h
    In the last 4 years, American food prices have gone up by 22%. Like I'm sorry, but running a campaign on the threat to democracy when people are unable to afford staple groceries was completely bonkers.

    https://x.com/AyoCaesar/status/1854097354065940488

    I am sure Trump's tariffs will help with that
    The Democrats can hope for “win by default” like Labour but I’m not convinced they can bet on that.

    I don’t know what a compelling Democratic platform looks like but it starts with I think going far more hard on immigration, cost of living.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,710

    Apparently, the German government has just collapsed.

    Interesting development. I read German news occasionally and wasn't aware this was a possibility.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,819

    Apparently, the German government has just collapsed.

    Tanked?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,505
    ...
    HYUFD said:

    Ash Sarkar
    @AyoCaesar
    ·
    9h
    In the last 4 years, American food prices have gone up by 22%. Like I'm sorry, but running a campaign on the threat to democracy when people are unable to afford staple groceries was completely bonkers.

    https://x.com/AyoCaesar/status/1854097354065940488

    I am sure Trump's tariffs will help with that
    They won't, but I suppose if he hands Ukraine over to Putin "Russian" grain will become much cheaper.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    I may be being naive here but this is peak Trump.
    1) Age and term limits will prevent him running again
    2) he has the senate (and I'm expecting the house) so will be able to make significant changes.

    but there's the rub. he'll deal with stuff that others will not deal with in ways other won't like. It could get messy for Ukraine when he pulls US support and it could get messy both the US and global economy if he imposes all the Tariffs he's suggested.

    his and the GOP approval has only one way to go in my opinion.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    Ash Sarkar
    @AyoCaesar
    ·
    9h
    In the last 4 years, American food prices have gone up by 22%. Like I'm sorry, but running a campaign on the threat to democracy when people are unable to afford staple groceries was completely bonkers.

    https://x.com/AyoCaesar/status/1854097354065940488

    Whats the alternative? Govt food subsidies of 22%? I guess its surrender Ukraine for the good of global inflation.
    We’ve all had inflation but I’m sure that the Brits wouldn’t have voted for a Trump like character . The Dems were poor at messaging and not helped by a US media who embarked on gold medal levels of sane washing .
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,949

    Ash Sarkar is always useless but she has touched on one key thing for me.

    Harris was seen as continuity Biden. And she never really did much to change this view. People said they can’t afford to eat and she had no answers.

    It’s very similar to what Sunak tried here by going on other issues.

    So no, I don’t think it’s the w word that lost this election. It’s Joe Biden and Harris.

    I am convinced by the idea of their choosing a governor instead.

    imho they should have somehow made it possible for Sherrod Brown to be the candidate.

    If we are doing somehow made it possibles, why not somehow make it possible for everyone to be happy and content?

    There is no "they" who could have made this possible.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,667
    nico679 said:

    Ash Sarkar
    @AyoCaesar
    ·
    9h
    In the last 4 years, American food prices have gone up by 22%. Like I'm sorry, but running a campaign on the threat to democracy when people are unable to afford staple groceries was completely bonkers.

    https://x.com/AyoCaesar/status/1854097354065940488

    Whats the alternative? Govt food subsidies of 22%? I guess its surrender Ukraine for the good of global inflation.
    We’ve all had inflation but I’m sure that the Brits wouldn’t have voted for a Trump like character . The Dems were poor at messaging and not helped by a US media who embarked on gold medal levels of sane washing .

    Maybe I am wrong but I do think that any candidate openly mocking the disabled would not be deemed fit for elected office by British voters.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,194

    Ash Sarkar
    @AyoCaesar
    ·
    9h
    In the last 4 years, American food prices have gone up by 22%. Like I'm sorry, but running a campaign on the threat to democracy when people are unable to afford staple groceries was completely bonkers.

    https://x.com/AyoCaesar/status/1854097354065940488

    Whats the alternative? Govt food subsidies of 22%? I guess its surrender Ukraine for the good of global inflation.
    Price controls and harsh punishment for racketeers. Scour the earth for staples, pay over the odds for them, and ship them in by the supertanker. Tax the rich to pay for it. We are so in thrall to the neo liberalism settlement we forget how mighty government can be. UK did it in WW2 when it bought up the whole of India's tea supply and bribed and corrupted Spain to stay out of WW2. It can be done, we just lack the will to do it.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,949
    nico679 said:

    Ash Sarkar
    @AyoCaesar
    ·
    9h
    In the last 4 years, American food prices have gone up by 22%. Like I'm sorry, but running a campaign on the threat to democracy when people are unable to afford staple groceries was completely bonkers.

    https://x.com/AyoCaesar/status/1854097354065940488

    Whats the alternative? Govt food subsidies of 22%? I guess its surrender Ukraine for the good of global inflation.
    We’ve all had inflation but I’m sure that the Brits wouldn’t have voted for a Trump like character . The Dems were poor at messaging and not helped by a US media who embarked on gold medal levels of sane washing .
    In a two horse race we would have kicked out the government. Corbyn for example may well have won this time. Now Trump has some weird extreme characteristics on brashness, vulgarity, boasting and faux masculinity that are both particularly American and non British at the same time so couldn't have become Loto here.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,900

    Ash Sarkar is always useless but she has touched on one key thing for me.

    Harris was seen as continuity Biden. And she never really did much to change this view. People said they can’t afford to eat and she had no answers.

    It’s very similar to what Sunak tried here by going on other issues.

    So no, I don’t think it’s the w word that lost this election. It’s Joe Biden and Harris.

    I am convinced by the idea of their choosing a governor instead.

    imho they should have somehow made it possible for Sherrod Brown to be the candidate.

    If we are doing somehow made it possibles, why not somehow make it possible for everyone to be happy and content?

    There is no "they" who could have made this possible.
    The DNC in this case, is 'they'.

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,307

    It's pointless us getting upset by it and bleating and crying that it's unfair, heartbreaking and the end of the world. Enough Americans seemingly want what Trump is offering and everyone else just has to suck it up.

    It’s not unfair.

    He won fair and square. It’s what America wants.

    Personally I think he is an utterly appalling person and totally unfit but America thinks differently. They’ve given him a mandate to govern as he wants.

    For their sake, I hope he is successful.
    I don't often agree with you on much, but on this i wholeheartedly agree.

    I think the election of Trump is an unmitigated disaster, and shame on Americans for voting for him.

    It is in my eyes a disaster for Ukrainians, Americans and the world, in that order.

    However for everyone's sakes, I hope I'm wrong. Wrong about what a disaster he'll be, not wrong that he's unfit to be anywhere near elected office, 6 January 2021 proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
    That's the bit which I (and I suspect the ex-Tory still-Wet bit of the spectrum) struggles with.

    I can see the appeal of the platform. Don't agree with it, think it will be a disaster if tried, think it's a reaction against ghosts, but can see the appeal. In the same way that desperate strugglers have always flocked to the strongman promising easy solutions... just with a fraction of the actual justification. Don't like it, but can acknowledge it.

    But.

    The vessel chosen to embody this is one Donald J. Trump. And he ought to be excluded from the game because of the events of four years ago. Simple as. There were plenty of other people offering something that (to me) seems like a crazy-nasty agenda, but without the democratic compromise. They all fell by the wayside during the primary process. And when push came to shove, the American right decided that they'd rather compromise on their committment to democracy than their commitment to right-wingness.

    To be fair, the Conservatives didn't do that. Once Johnson's continued lying became intolerable, they acted. But the historical record of the moderate right around the world isn't good here. And the list of times and places where it has worked well seems awfully short.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,949
    viewcode said:

    Ash Sarkar
    @AyoCaesar
    ·
    9h
    In the last 4 years, American food prices have gone up by 22%. Like I'm sorry, but running a campaign on the threat to democracy when people are unable to afford staple groceries was completely bonkers.

    https://x.com/AyoCaesar/status/1854097354065940488

    Whats the alternative? Govt food subsidies of 22%? I guess its surrender Ukraine for the good of global inflation.
    Price controls and harsh punishment for racketeers. Scour the earth for staples, pay over the odds for them, and ship them in by the supertanker. Tax the rich to pay for it. We are so in thrall to the neo liberalism settlement we forget how mighty government can be. UK did it in WW2 when it bought up the whole of India's tea supply and bribed and corrupted Spain to stay out of WW2. It can be done, we just lack the will to do it.
    A like not because I agree but because this is a genuine answer that could work (at great cost). It is outside the Overton window for good reason but could be tried.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    glw said:

    nico679 said:

    The one thing that deeply worries me is this surge of young men becoming Tate followers , viewing the world as downtrodden men who apparently have to take back control from women . There was this undercurrent in the Trump campaign .

    Previously this group didn’t bother voting , now they do ! It’s political testosteronization .

    As I've said repeatedly for many years now, perhaps social media and democracy are incompatible?

    30 years ago with the top-down media world of the time, when crazy ideas like facts and evidence mattered, the Trump candidacy would never have taken off. He would have been eviscerated by the press at the beginning, and most people would have accepted what they read, heard, or saw, that Trump is patently unfit for office.

    Nowadays Trump can bypass such scrutiny and lie his way to office, and not once but twice now.

    Somewhat ironically the only countries that might be safe from such demagoguery are those that are already one-party states or have strict control of the press and social media. Which of course is not really a solution for those of us who like liberal democracy.
    Yes definitely social media has played a huge role in all of this . One things for sure Europe needs to get a grip and realize that we have to look after ourselves . We simply can’t rely on the US , and nor should we , time to take back control !
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    It's pointless us getting upset by it and bleating and crying that it's unfair, heartbreaking and the end of the world. Enough Americans seemingly want what Trump is offering and everyone else just has to suck it up.

    It’s not unfair.

    He won fair and square. It’s what America wants.

    Personally I think he is an utterly appalling person and totally unfit but America thinks differently. They’ve given him a mandate to govern as he wants.

    For their sake, I hope he is successful.
    I don't often agree with you on much, but on this i wholeheartedly agree.

    I think the election of Trump is an unmitigated disaster, and shame on Americans for voting for him.

    It is in my eyes a disaster for Ukrainians, Americans and the world, in that order.

    However for everyone's sakes, I hope I'm wrong. Wrong about what a disaster he'll be, not wrong that he's unfit to be anywhere near elected office, 6 January 2021 proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
    That's the bit which I (and I suspect the ex-Tory still-Wet bit of the spectrum) struggles with.

    I can see the appeal of the platform. Don't agree with it, think it will be a disaster if tried, think it's a reaction against ghosts, but can see the appeal. In the same way that desperate strugglers have always flocked to the strongman promising easy solutions... just with a fraction of the actual justification. Don't like it, but can acknowledge it.

    But.

    The vessel chosen to embody this is one Donald J. Trump. And he ought to be excluded from the game because of the events of four years ago. Simple as. There were plenty of other people offering something that (to me) seems like a crazy-nasty agenda, but without the democratic compromise. They all fell by the wayside during the primary process. And when push came to shove, the American right decided that they'd rather compromise on their committment to democracy than their commitment to right-wingness.

    To be fair, the Conservatives didn't do that. Once Johnson's continued lying became intolerable, they acted. But the historical record of the moderate right around the world isn't good here. And the list of times and places where it has worked well seems awfully short.
    The thing is, now that Trump has won a second time he doesn't have an opportunity to repeat 2021.
  • spudgfsh said:

    I may be being naive here but this is peak Trump.
    1) Age and term limits will prevent him running again
    2) he has the senate (and I'm expecting the house) so will be able to make significant changes.

    but there's the rub. he'll deal with stuff that others will not deal with in ways other won't like. It could get messy for Ukraine when he pulls US support and it could get messy both the US and global economy if he imposes all the Tariffs he's suggested.

    his and the GOP approval has only one way to go in my opinion.

    Agreed, to an extent. A good chunk of voters seem to have fallen for Trump offering simplistic solutions to America's complex problems. Most of them won't work and some will amplify the underlying issues. Those voters will get fed up with him quite quickly I think.

    But there are others who want to rebuild America into some strange pseudo-1920s nostalgia trip, where women have no rights, nobody is trans, the US is king of manufacturing and jobs for life are common. Those I believe will keep faith with Trump, and probably Vance if Trump croaks it before the next election.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,949

    Ash Sarkar is always useless but she has touched on one key thing for me.

    Harris was seen as continuity Biden. And she never really did much to change this view. People said they can’t afford to eat and she had no answers.

    It’s very similar to what Sunak tried here by going on other issues.

    So no, I don’t think it’s the w word that lost this election. It’s Joe Biden and Harris.

    I am convinced by the idea of their choosing a governor instead.

    imho they should have somehow made it possible for Sherrod Brown to be the candidate.

    If we are doing somehow made it possibles, why not somehow make it possible for everyone to be happy and content?

    There is no "they" who could have made this possible.
    The DNC in this case, is 'they'.

    So the DNC would have to somehow persuade Harris to step down, her surrogates to forget about it being the turn of a female President, and stop all the other Governors and Senators from stepping into the fray too. It just was not remotely achievable.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    nico679 said:

    glw said:

    nico679 said:

    The one thing that deeply worries me is this surge of young men becoming Tate followers , viewing the world as downtrodden men who apparently have to take back control from women . There was this undercurrent in the Trump campaign .

    Previously this group didn’t bother voting , now they do ! It’s political testosteronization .

    As I've said repeatedly for many years now, perhaps social media and democracy are incompatible?

    30 years ago with the top-down media world of the time, when crazy ideas like facts and evidence mattered, the Trump candidacy would never have taken off. He would have been eviscerated by the press at the beginning, and most people would have accepted what they read, heard, or saw, that Trump is patently unfit for office.

    Nowadays Trump can bypass such scrutiny and lie his way to office, and not once but twice now.

    Somewhat ironically the only countries that might be safe from such demagoguery are those that are already one-party states or have strict control of the press and social media. Which of course is not really a solution for those of us who like liberal democracy.
    Yes definitely social media has played a huge role in all of this . One things for sure Europe needs to get a grip and realize that we have to look after ourselves . We simply can’t rely on the US , and nor should we , time to take back control !
    it is the main outcome of DJT's first term. most European NATO countries are now spending more on defence.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,710
    I'd like to know what Channel 4 was thinking when they decided to have Stormy Daniels, George Santos and Boris Johnson on their election night coverage.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423
    nico679 said:

    Ash Sarkar
    @AyoCaesar
    ·
    9h
    In the last 4 years, American food prices have gone up by 22%. Like I'm sorry, but running a campaign on the threat to democracy when people are unable to afford staple groceries was completely bonkers.

    https://x.com/AyoCaesar/status/1854097354065940488

    Whats the alternative? Govt food subsidies of 22%? I guess its surrender Ukraine for the good of global inflation.
    We’ve all had inflation but I’m sure that the Brits wouldn’t have voted for a Trump like character . The Dems were poor at messaging and not helped by a US media who embarked on gold medal levels of sane washing .
    Mmm. That's an interesting question. Would Corbyn have led Labour to victory in July?
    I reckon he would have.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,949
    Andy_JS said:

    I'd like to know what Channel 4 was thinking when they decided to have Stormy Daniels, George Santos and Boris Johnson on their election night coverage.

    Try to be different and get people who wouldn't normally give them a mention to give them a mention?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,710

    Ash Sarkar
    @AyoCaesar
    ·
    9h
    In the last 4 years, American food prices have gone up by 22%. Like I'm sorry, but running a campaign on the threat to democracy when people are unable to afford staple groceries was completely bonkers.

    https://x.com/AyoCaesar/status/1854097354065940488

    Why have food prices gone up so much more in the US than the UK?
This discussion has been closed.