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Trump v the Deep State:  Who wins? – politicalbetting.com

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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,706
    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    glw said:

    MattW said:

    A couple of interesting bits from this week's More or Less.

    6:20 Trump's latest fabrications. This time about crime statistics.
    11:00 Knocking spots off misrepresentation of stats about GP suicides by the BMA. Especially around misinterpretation of unclear questions to get a big claim.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00244l3

    Without even listening that sounds like one of those questions along the lines of "have you thought about changing profession in the last year?" Obviously all employees think about that sort of thing to a degree, but it gets spun by pressure groups and the media into "60% of Doctors want to leave the profession".
    It was an ambiguous question, plus dodgy interpretation.

    The BMA claimed:

    one in four GPs know another GP who has taken their own life

    The basis of the claim was a survey by another group which asked:

    "to what extent do you agree or disagree with the statement: I know of general practice workers in my own region who have taken their own lives due to work pressures."

    (GPs make up ~25% of all general practice workers.)

    1 - The group referred to is obviously totally different.
    2 - There was a red flag level of "don't know" or "prefer not to answer" in the responses, at 24%.
    3 - "Know of" is totally different to "know". "Know of" could be on Facebook or a newspaper report.
    4 - The question is generally ambiguous.

    The BMA are blowing up their claim to be credible.

    The piece also includes comparisons with other roughly comparable groups, and Doctors are low in occurrence. Also other bits worth a listen.
    They also went on a bear hunt.

    Bears can eat 250k buffalo berries a day. Someone tracked bears through the woods collecting and analysing the poop.

    (Bears shit in the woods about 10 times a day, and each contains approx 20k buffalo berries.)
    Woah, I call shenanigans on that. How heavy are 250,000 buffaloberries? How heavy is a bear? Facially, there would seem to be a disparity
    That's what, 6 berries a second, every second during daylight? OK, they grow in dense clumps, but even so, that would make them an awesome reaping machine.

    Not seeing it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,291
    Taz said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They seem to have an inability to stop digging once in a hole.

    I would have expected their comms strategy to be more slick.
    The setup was there, there is £22bn, £40bn, £100bn black hole, sorry folks we are going to have to do x, y and z.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,242
    Andy_JS said:

    Trump has a 54.3% chance of winning the election with 538.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/

    Gosh that is one of the worst use of percentages to give implied precision that I have seen in a while. How they justify the .3 is beyond me.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,194
    MattW said:

    viewcode said:

    @MattW, to save me time, please can you tell me the paper (source, whatever) that the BMA cited in support of the "one in four GPs know another GP who has taken their own life" stat please?

    Survey by campaign group Rebuild General Practice in 2022. Survey of 1300 GPs. Quoted by Dr Katie Bramhall-Stainer, Chair of the BMA Committee on GPs, on the Today programme.

    A recording of her saying it is in the M4L episode at about 11:25.

    I think M4L tracked down the source, which is not mentioned in her quote.
    Gottit, thank you

    https://rebuildgp.co.uk/news
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LTIR1vUPu6NUzZMTaBaCq-h73eNN0KR_/view
    https://archive.is/j77zX
    https://web.archive.org/web/20230331181730/https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LTIR1vUPu6NUzZMTaBaCq-h73eNN0KR_/view
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,576
    Taz said:

    maaarsh said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    2% on NI floated in Times today - no way companies can afford not to take a chunk out of the pay rise pot to pay for it.
    They should make less profit, take it from profits, seems to be the thoughts of some on that matter.
    Ah yes. The brief that all businesses are giant conglomerates where rich white men fondle huge piles of £50 notes.

    When more small shops close on high streets, and shop wages take a hit, what will the response be, please?
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    maxh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Trump has a 54.3% chance of winning the election with 538.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/

    Gosh that is one of the worst use of percentages to give implied precision that I have seen in a while. How they justify the .3 is beyond me.
    They don't, they just give 1000 monte-carlo simulations.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,576
    Taz said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They seem to have an inability to stop digging once in a hole.

    I would have expected their comms strategy to be more slick.
    They just asked Rachel Reeves on BBC News if she was a working person. The inability to approach answering the question was rather telling.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,194
    edited October 27

    HYUFD said:

    #New General Election poll - Swing States

    Nevada - 🔵 Harris +1
    Michigan - 🔵 Harris +4
    Pennsylvania - 🔵 Harris +2
    Wisconsin - 🟡 Tie
    Arizona - 🟡 Tie
    Georgia - 🔴 Trump +2
    N. Carolina - 🔴 Trump +2

    Morning Consult (Bloomberg) #C - LV - 10/20
    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1850414788179795990

    The way late-breakers are going for Harris, together with her huge lead with women (16% - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/10/25/harris-trump-poll-gender-gap/75697863007/ when women consistently make up 3-4% more of the electorate - https://cawp.rutgers.edu/facts/voters/gender-differences-voter-turnout#GGN ) I still expect her to win all of those states.
    If late breakers are going for Kamala, then she should be registering a gradual increase in the lead. She isn't. Unless they all pile in on the last day, in which case we are fucked, because we can't predict that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,576

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    Chris Kaba was an architect. If his own demise.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,242
    I'm in statistically the sunniest, dryest part of Europe at this point in the year, and the forecast is solid rain for the next week.

    Anyone got anything they'd recommend on Netflix? I'm up for interesting documentaries or weird stuff, series that extend the plot only to rake in more profits notsomuch. It's the only steaming channel I've currently got access to, though I'm considering buying into DAZN to watch the F1.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,706
    Taz said:

    maaarsh said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    2% on NI floated in Times today - no way companies can afford not to take a chunk out of the pay rise pot to pay for it.
    They should make less profit, take it from profits, seems to be the thoughts of some on that matter.
    Those "thinkers" saying how the lost contributions to the nation's pensions from the reduced dividends stack up?

    There is a notion widely accepted by Labour that dividends go to about fifteen obscenely rich wankers. Rather than it mostly going to the millions of people who voted for them in July.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,415
    HYUFD said:

    #New General Election poll - Swing States

    Nevada - 🔵 Harris +1
    Michigan - 🔵 Harris +4
    Pennsylvania - 🔵 Harris +2
    Wisconsin - 🟡 Tie
    Arizona - 🟡 Tie
    Georgia - 🔴 Trump +2
    N. Carolina - 🔴 Trump +2

    Morning Consult (Bloomberg) #C - LV - 10/20
    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1850414788179795990

    As tight as could be. But, bear in mind, MC is only rated 107th by 538.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,415

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    A comment that is strictly true, but also misleading.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,581

    Taz said:

    maaarsh said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    2% on NI floated in Times today - no way companies can afford not to take a chunk out of the pay rise pot to pay for it.
    They should make less profit, take it from profits, seems to be the thoughts of some on that matter.
    Ah yes. The brief that all businesses are giant conglomerates where rich white men fondle huge piles of £50 notes.

    When more small shops close on high streets, and shop wages take a hit, what will the response be, please?
    Don’t forget there’s a double whammy coming on wages in the hospitality industry and retail where many younger people work. The minimum wage will see the gap for 18-20 year olds narrowed with a view to being eliminated as part of labour legislative program. Something that may well be counterproductive for the people it purports to help as well as not helping the businesses these people work for.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,138
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    There’s a lot of shite coffee out there.

    I’m sitting outside an independent coffee shop in Bloomsbury opposite the British Museum, which is looking resplendent in the October sunshine. The coffee, in a flash Lavazza cup, is rank. Like something out of a BP wild bean cafe. £3.80.

    I suppose I’m paying to sit in an attractive spot with a view of this strangely Dublin-like part of London, rather than paying for something drinkable.

    I’m doing a Sunday walk up from here through Regents Park to Primrose Hill. Nice day for it.

    I’m watching Disney’s Emmy-winning Shogun which - in this pilot episode at least - is all set in and around Osaka Castle, having myself just come from Osaka Castle, and now I lie abed in my hotel and when I look up from my wine and iPad I can see… Osaka Castle
    Well, the 20th century concrete reproduction of Osaka Castle, anyway. (There are only 12 genuine pre-Meiji examples remaining, the rest having succumbed to fire, earthquake, bombs or plain old abandonment and collapse. I think I've seen about half of the twelve.)
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658
    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    #New General Election poll - Swing States

    Nevada - 🔵 Harris +1
    Michigan - 🔵 Harris +4
    Pennsylvania - 🔵 Harris +2
    Wisconsin - 🟡 Tie
    Arizona - 🟡 Tie
    Georgia - 🔴 Trump +2
    N. Carolina - 🔴 Trump +2

    Morning Consult (Bloomberg) #C - LV - 10/20
    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1850414788179795990

    As tight as could be. But, bear in mind, MC is only rated 107th by 538.
    Can't possibly think why a pollster with a consistent Dem slant is having their polls announced as New 4 days after they were first released. No agenda there... (leaving aside that they mostly show a shift to GOP vs their prior poll)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,522
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting header. Not enough serious thought is going into what a Trump administration would look like. I don't know.

    Which is more likely? A semi-fascist new order? Or a chaotic despotism more like his first term? This may depend on how much Trump will be in charge.

    For analogies, the best I can think of Kaiser Bill, playing with his navy whilst Germany went to hell in a handcart.

    Trump will first of all focus on saving himself, then he will focus on enriching himself.
    Why not all of the above? A chaotic despotism (attempted) as the 2025 types try and do stuff. Trump tries to do his thing, and weirdly clash with the 2025 types on surprising, random stuff. While agreeing with the 2025 types on other random stuff. And fighting the blue states. But also, probably getting push back from red states when he impinges on the flow of pork money….. And stuffing (or trying to stuff) his pockets at the same time.
    These are the guys who are definitely in, whether or not that's true of Project 25.
    You could do worse than read up on them for guidance on stuff that might happen.
    https://americafirstpolicy.com/assets/uploads/files/The-America-First-Transition-Project-Introduction.pdf
    I thought "Project 2025" and "America First" and "Agenda 47" were separate things. Am I misinformed?
    They certainly are.
    But there’s a substantial degree of overlap in their various aims. And all would be represented to some extent in a second Trump administration.

    Linda McMahon, who helped create America First, for example, is co-chair of the transition team.
    Vance, again for example, is a long time backer of ‘25.

    Agenda 47 is Trump’s own “formal” policy plans - so effectively might not mean a whole lot in actual practical terms.

    Work out where the bureaucratic and policy overlap is, and you have a reasonable guess on what he might do.
    It’s also interesting to ask whether he could get away with (or would even want to try) not doing stuff like mass deportation. Or whether that’s a matter of priority for him.

    I don’t expect Trump to organise any of this stuff - but he has a lot more people around him this time who are ideologically committed, and also knowledgeable about the bureaucracy. And have been planning.
    That simply wasn’t the case eight years ago.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Indeed. Next year us working people should all feel warm and cosy that the first 2% of our pay rise is going to Rachel.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,170
    maaarsh said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    2% on NI floated in Times today - no way companies can afford not to take a chunk out of the pay rise pot to pay for it.
    One way to handle inflation, depending on what the Gvt does with it…
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,822
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting header. Not enough serious thought is going into what a Trump administration would look like. I don't know.

    Which is more likely? A semi-fascist new order? Or a chaotic despotism more like his first term? This may depend on how much Trump will be in charge.

    For analogies, the best I can think of Kaiser Bill, playing with his navy whilst Germany went to hell in a handcart.

    Trump will first of all focus on saving himself, then he will focus on enriching himself.
    Why not all of the above? A chaotic despotism (attempted) as the 2025 types try and do stuff. Trump tries to do his thing, and weirdly clash with the 2025 types on surprising, random stuff. While agreeing with the 2025 types on other random stuff. And fighting the blue states. But also, probably getting push back from red states when he impinges on the flow of pork money….. And stuffing (or trying to stuff) his pockets at the same time.
    These are the guys who are definitely in, whether or not that's true of Project 25.
    You could do worse than read up on them for guidance on stuff that might happen.
    https://americafirstpolicy.com/assets/uploads/files/The-America-First-Transition-Project-Introduction.pdf
    I thought "Project 2025" and "America First" and "Agenda 47" were separate things. Am I misinformed?
    I attended a dinner with one of the leading lights behind Project 2025 a few nights ago. It left me feeling a bit more relaxed about the whole thing. The guy was surprisingly stupid and inarticulate and a lot of the ideas he espoused weren't so much half baked as not even defrosted. This is not a well organised conspiracy.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    biggles said:

    maaarsh said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    2% on NI floated in Times today - no way companies can afford not to take a chunk out of the pay rise pot to pay for it.
    One way to handle inflation, depending on what the Gvt does with it…
    Ha, that's one justification, but probably not 1 I'd choose if I was putting 8.4p on the price of petrol at the same time.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,656
    edited October 27

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Employer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,522
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    #New General Election poll - Swing States

    Nevada - 🔵 Harris +1
    Michigan - 🔵 Harris +4
    Pennsylvania - 🔵 Harris +2
    Wisconsin - 🟡 Tie
    Arizona - 🟡 Tie
    Georgia - 🔴 Trump +2
    N. Carolina - 🔴 Trump +2

    Morning Consult (Bloomberg) #C - LV - 10/20
    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1850414788179795990

    The way late-breakers are going for Harris, together with her huge lead with women (16% - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/10/25/harris-trump-poll-gender-gap/75697863007/ when women consistently make up 3-4% more of the electorate - https://cawp.rutgers.edu/facts/voters/gender-differences-voter-turnout#GGN ) I still expect her to win all of those states.
    If late breakers are going for Kamala, then she should be registering a gradual increase in the lead. She isn't. Unless they all pile in on the last day, in which case we are fucked, because we can't predict that.
    You’re assuming polling accurately catches such putative moves.
    That’s questionable.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658
    Lower inflation and increasing employers NI will lead to lower pay rises next year.

    Its possible that the 2.5% part of the triple lock will again be activated.

    Nice to know that the oldies are protected from reduced pay rises and increased taxes.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,920
    edited October 27

    Taz said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They seem to have an inability to stop digging once in a hole.

    I would have expected their comms strategy to be more slick.
    They just asked Rachel Reeves on BBC News if she was a working person. The inability to approach answering the question was rather telling.
    I think may have been the first person on here to condemn Reeves as a dud. As I've said before, and several times, if the presenters of the breakfast show on Radio 5 can get the better of you, you might not be up to the job of Chancellor.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,170
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Emplyer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
    I think we’ll be hearing “jobs tax” a lot from the new Tory leader. Especially when unemployment ticks up.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,522
    pm215 said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    There’s a lot of shite coffee out there.

    I’m sitting outside an independent coffee shop in Bloomsbury opposite the British Museum, which is looking resplendent in the October sunshine. The coffee, in a flash Lavazza cup, is rank. Like something out of a BP wild bean cafe. £3.80.

    I suppose I’m paying to sit in an attractive spot with a view of this strangely Dublin-like part of London, rather than paying for something drinkable.

    I’m doing a Sunday walk up from here through Regents Park to Primrose Hill. Nice day for it.

    I’m watching Disney’s Emmy-winning Shogun which - in this pilot episode at least - is all set in and around Osaka Castle, having myself just come from Osaka Castle, and now I lie abed in my hotel and when I look up from my wine and iPad I can see… Osaka Castle
    Well, the 20th century concrete reproduction of Osaka Castle, anyway. (There are only 12 genuine pre-Meiji examples remaining, the rest having succumbed to fire, earthquake, bombs or plain old abandonment and collapse. I think I've seen about half of the twelve.)
    A fair amount of Shogun was CGI, so the point is moot.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Emplyer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
    I think we’ll be hearing “jobs tax” a lot from the new Tory leader. Especially when unemployment ticks up.
    If they really go with 2% then bluntly I think lots of employers will be pointing at the government to make sure workers know who is to blame when pay reviews come round
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,969
    edited October 27

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    It’s on there for the few companies I’ve worked for.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,885
    maaarsh said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    2% on NI floated in Times today - no way companies can afford not to take a chunk out of the pay rise pot to pay for it.
    Hiring freezes too, especially with the spectre of NI on pension contributions.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,068

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting header. Not enough serious thought is going into what a Trump administration would look like. I don't know.

    Which is more likely? A semi-fascist new order? Or a chaotic despotism more like his first term? This may depend on how much Trump will be in charge.

    For analogies, the best I can think of Kaiser Bill, playing with his navy whilst Germany went to hell in a handcart.

    Trump will first of all focus on saving himself, then he will focus on enriching himself.
    Why not all of the above? A chaotic despotism (attempted) as the 2025 types try and do stuff. Trump tries to do his thing, and weirdly clash with the 2025 types on surprising, random stuff. While agreeing with the 2025 types on other random stuff. And fighting the blue states. But also, probably getting push back from red states when he impinges on the flow of pork money….. And stuffing (or trying to stuff) his pockets at the same time.
    These are the guys who are definitely in, whether or not that's true of Project 25.
    You could do worse than read up on them for guidance on stuff that might happen.
    https://americafirstpolicy.com/assets/uploads/files/The-America-First-Transition-Project-Introduction.pdf
    I thought "Project 2025" and "America First" and "Agenda 47" were separate things. Am I misinformed?
    I attended a dinner with one of the leading lights behind Project 2025 a few nights ago. It left me feeling a bit more relaxed about the whole thing. The guy was surprisingly stupid and inarticulate and a lot of the ideas he espoused weren't so much half baked as not even defrosted. This is not a well organised conspiracy.
    Buffoons can be surprisingly destructive though, even if seemingly by accident.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,971

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting header. Not enough serious thought is going into what a Trump administration would look like. I don't know.

    Which is more likely? A semi-fascist new order? Or a chaotic despotism more like his first term? This may depend on how much Trump will be in charge.

    For analogies, the best I can think of Kaiser Bill, playing with his navy whilst Germany went to hell in a handcart.

    Trump will first of all focus on saving himself, then he will focus on enriching himself.
    Why not all of the above? A chaotic despotism (attempted) as the 2025 types try and do stuff. Trump tries to do his thing, and weirdly clash with the 2025 types on surprising, random stuff. While agreeing with the 2025 types on other random stuff. And fighting the blue states. But also, probably getting push back from red states when he impinges on the flow of pork money….. And stuffing (or trying to stuff) his pockets at the same time.
    These are the guys who are definitely in, whether or not that's true of Project 25.
    You could do worse than read up on them for guidance on stuff that might happen.
    https://americafirstpolicy.com/assets/uploads/files/The-America-First-Transition-Project-Introduction.pdf
    I thought "Project 2025" and "America First" and "Agenda 47" were separate things. Am I misinformed?
    I attended a dinner with one of the leading lights behind Project 2025 a few nights ago. It left me feeling a bit more relaxed about the whole thing. The guy was surprisingly stupid and inarticulate and a lot of the ideas he espoused weren't so much half baked as not even defrosted. This is not a well organised conspiracy.
    As far as I am aware, and Godwinning myself, many leading Nazis were not particularly bright, and their organisation not particularly well organised. Ditto the various Marxist groups in Russia in the 1910s.

    What both of these had in common, was a purge of rivals - internal and external - once they gained power. That;s something to watch out for, and the GOP seem to be falling towards.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,656
    edited October 27
    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Emplyer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
    I think we’ll be hearing “jobs tax” a lot from the new Tory leader. Especially when unemployment ticks up.
    Employer NI is absolutely a “tax on jobs”.

    Now there’s an argument to be made, that increasing payroll taxes during a period of full employment should incentivise companies to invest in capital rather than labour - but that’s not the noise coming out of the new government, they’re instead focusing on how much money it will raise, as if no companies will change their behaviour as a result of the tax increase.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,581
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Employer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
    Mine certainly does. Just checked the latest.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Japan election update: Pretty much confirmed LDP+Koumeitou will be a bit short. However there are a couple of smaller conservative parties in the opposition and also some conservative-leaning independents so depending how short they end up they can probably either pick off a few independents or at worst add a party to the coalition.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,581

    Lower inflation and increasing employers NI will lead to lower pay rises next year.

    Its possible that the 2.5% part of the triple lock will again be activated.

    Nice to know that the oldies are protected from reduced pay rises and increased taxes.

    Labour should bite the bullet and scrap it he triple lock and replace it with something more affordable.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    Taz said:

    Lower inflation and increasing employers NI will lead to lower pay rises next year.

    Its possible that the 2.5% part of the triple lock will again be activated.

    Nice to know that the oldies are protected from reduced pay rises and increased taxes.

    Labour should bite the bullet and scrap it he triple lock and replace it with something more affordable.
    They've lost most pensioners anyway, might as well do the country a favour now the political pain has been taken anyway.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,068
    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Emplyer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
    I think we’ll be hearing “jobs tax” a lot from the new Tory leader. Especially when unemployment ticks up.
    How many people get payslips these days? Not a rhetorical question, because I’m interested. I’ve not had a payslip for years. It’s all online somewhere.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 660
    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    A bit late for yesterday, but thank-you for the header yesterday, @MaxPB .

    Some things I wouldn't have expected you to say, and various things I agree/disagree with of course, and some things you call for (eg emphasis on prevention) have already been put in place by the last Government - which is something for which I give them credit.

    I need to take care not to mistake @MaxPB for @maxh when reading headers.

    Agree and a shame for @MaxPB the thread got hijacked so soon yesterday. Re mixing up @MaxPB and @maxh I do the same. I often get half way through reading a post and think 'That was unexpected' and then realise I am reading a different poster to whom I expected. I can't remember if @PJH writes different stuff to me. It throws me when I see his/her posts.
    Haha @kjh I think it doesn't help that we aren't all that far apart politically. But you post far more than me so I doubt there is a more widespread confusion (I also confuse the Maxes)
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,068
    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Emplyer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
    I think we’ll be hearing “jobs tax” a lot from the new Tory leader. Especially when unemployment ticks up.
    Employer NI is absolutely a “tax on jobs”.

    Now there’s an argument to be made, that increasing payroll taxes during a period of full employment should incentivise companies to invest in capital rather than labour - but that’s not the noise coming out of the new government, they’re instead focusing on how much money it will raise, as if no companies will change their behaviour as a result of the tax increase.
    They’ve really failed on rhetoric and framing, ever since the election.

    It would be consistent with the Brexit vibe of reducing Britain’s reliance on plentiful cheap labour and encouraging productivity through investment, but that argument has t been made. I suppose the Treasury can’t make the argument yet because the budget is still supposed to be secret, but the message could be put out through friendly newspapers.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,656
    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Emplyer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
    I think we’ll be hearing “jobs tax” a lot from the new Tory leader. Especially when unemployment ticks up.
    How many people get payslips these days? Not a rhetorical question, because I’m interested. I’ve not had a payslip for years. It’s all online somewhere.
    Does your payemail have a line for Employer NI?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,194
    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    #New General Election poll - Swing States

    Nevada - 🔵 Harris +1
    Michigan - 🔵 Harris +4
    Pennsylvania - 🔵 Harris +2
    Wisconsin - 🟡 Tie
    Arizona - 🟡 Tie
    Georgia - 🔴 Trump +2
    N. Carolina - 🔴 Trump +2

    Morning Consult (Bloomberg) #C - LV - 10/20
    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1850414788179795990

    The way late-breakers are going for Harris, together with her huge lead with women (16% - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/10/25/harris-trump-poll-gender-gap/75697863007/ when women consistently make up 3-4% more of the electorate - https://cawp.rutgers.edu/facts/voters/gender-differences-voter-turnout#GGN ) I still expect her to win all of those states.
    If late breakers are going for Kamala, then she should be registering a gradual increase in the lead. She isn't. Unless they all pile in on the last day, in which case we are fucked, because we can't predict that.
    You’re assuming polling accurately catches such putative moves.
    That’s questionable.
    True, but that makes things worse not better. It all boils down to "the polls are unreliable". Damn, I hate this election. :(
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,068
    pm215 said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    There’s a lot of shite coffee out there.

    I’m sitting outside an independent coffee shop in Bloomsbury opposite the British Museum, which is looking resplendent in the October sunshine. The coffee, in a flash Lavazza cup, is rank. Like something out of a BP wild bean cafe. £3.80.

    I suppose I’m paying to sit in an attractive spot with a view of this strangely Dublin-like part of London, rather than paying for something drinkable.

    I’m doing a Sunday walk up from here through Regents Park to Primrose Hill. Nice day for it.

    I’m watching Disney’s Emmy-winning Shogun which - in this pilot episode at least - is all set in and around Osaka Castle, having myself just come from Osaka Castle, and now I lie abed in my hotel and when I look up from my wine and iPad I can see… Osaka Castle
    Well, the 20th century concrete reproduction of Osaka Castle, anyway. (There are only 12 genuine pre-Meiji examples remaining, the rest having succumbed to fire, earthquake, bombs or plain old abandonment and collapse. I think I've seen about half of the twelve.)
    I’m now sitting in the cafe in Regent’s Park (another Benugo, that chain is quietly taking over the world: they even run the canteen at the OECD in Paris). Oddly enough the vibe reminds me of a very pleasant meal sitting outside quite close to Osaka castle at an Italian restaurant called “Garb Weeks”. I think that’s a Japanised reference (Milan) fashion week.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,068
    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Emplyer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
    I think we’ll be hearing “jobs tax” a lot from the new Tory leader. Especially when unemployment ticks up.
    How many people get payslips these days? Not a rhetorical question, because I’m interested. I’ve not had a payslip for years. It’s all online somewhere.
    Does your payemail have a line for Employer NI?
    I’ve no idea what PAYEmail is. I don’t get anything, just money in the account. But that’s because I’m not an employee strictly speaking (does that make me not a working person?) Which is one reason my effective tax rate is comfortably over 50%.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,971
    This is quite an interesting story.

    'I married the train driver who saved my life'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7ml33pn0zo
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,068

    This is quite an interesting story.

    'I married the train driver who saved my life'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7ml33pn0zo

    That’s very sweet.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,083
    Taz said:

    Lower inflation and increasing employers NI will lead to lower pay rises next year.

    Its possible that the 2.5% part of the triple lock will again be activated.

    Nice to know that the oldies are protected from reduced pay rises and increased taxes.

    Labour should bite the bullet and scrap it he triple lock and replace it with something more affordable.
    The triple lock is not unaffordable, even if it might be when extrapolated decades into the future. A better pensions target would be higher rate tax relief on contributions but that seems to have been ruled out.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,822

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting header. Not enough serious thought is going into what a Trump administration would look like. I don't know.

    Which is more likely? A semi-fascist new order? Or a chaotic despotism more like his first term? This may depend on how much Trump will be in charge.

    For analogies, the best I can think of Kaiser Bill, playing with his navy whilst Germany went to hell in a handcart.

    Trump will first of all focus on saving himself, then he will focus on enriching himself.
    Why not all of the above? A chaotic despotism (attempted) as the 2025 types try and do stuff. Trump tries to do his thing, and weirdly clash with the 2025 types on surprising, random stuff. While agreeing with the 2025 types on other random stuff. And fighting the blue states. But also, probably getting push back from red states when he impinges on the flow of pork money….. And stuffing (or trying to stuff) his pockets at the same time.
    These are the guys who are definitely in, whether or not that's true of Project 25.
    You could do worse than read up on them for guidance on stuff that might happen.
    https://americafirstpolicy.com/assets/uploads/files/The-America-First-Transition-Project-Introduction.pdf
    I thought "Project 2025" and "America First" and "Agenda 47" were separate things. Am I misinformed?
    I attended a dinner with one of the leading lights behind Project 2025 a few nights ago. It left me feeling a bit more relaxed about the whole thing. The guy was surprisingly stupid and inarticulate and a lot of the ideas he espoused weren't so much half baked as not even defrosted. This is not a well organised conspiracy.
    As far as I am aware, and Godwinning myself, many leading Nazis were not particularly bright, and their organisation not particularly well organised. Ditto the various Marxist groups in Russia in the 1910s.

    What both of these had in common, was a purge of rivals - internal and external - once they gained power. That;s something to watch out for, and the GOP seem to be falling towards.
    No agreed, extremists are often not very bright, hence them believing their own simplistic rhetoric. But still, I had thought of Project 2025 as quite a slick operation and having met the brains behind it it is clearly anything but.
    Don't worry about Godwinning yourself. The current incarnation of the Republican party is properly dangerous. Kudos to those like Dick Cheney (wow, he is the hero I never thought I'd have) who have had the guts to call them out.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Employer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
    Perhaps its just a option that can be ticked or not.

    Gross, deductions and net are obligatory.

    But as employers NI isn't a deduction from the net that it doesn't and as I said its never been on any payslip that I've ever had.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,242
    viewcode said:

    maaarsh said:

    maxh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Trump has a 54.3% chance of winning the election with 538.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/

    Gosh that is one of the worst use of percentages to give implied precision that I have seen in a while. How they justify the .3 is beyond me.
    They don't, they just give 1000 monte-carlo simulations.
    All together now...that is the variability of the model, not the probability of the event!

    (punches wall in frustration)
    Ah, that makes more sense. But turning that into a percentage doesn't.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,885
    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Emplyer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
    I think we’ll be hearing “jobs tax” a lot from the new Tory leader. Especially when unemployment ticks up.
    How many people get payslips these days? Not a rhetorical question, because I’m interested. I’ve not had a payslip for years. It’s all online somewhere.
    Online, but even on those it shows employers NI for the month and YTD, I think it's the law, maybe Labour will change that so it doesn't show on payslips?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,209
    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Emplyer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
    I think we’ll be hearing “jobs tax” a lot from the new Tory leader. Especially when unemployment ticks up.
    Employer NI is absolutely a “tax on jobs”.

    Now there’s an argument to be made, that increasing payroll taxes during a period of full employment should incentivise companies to invest in capital rather than labour - but that’s not the noise coming out of the new government, they’re instead focusing on how much money it will raise, as if no companies will change their behaviour as a result of the tax increase.
    They’ve really failed on rhetoric and framing, ever since the election.

    It would be consistent with the Brexit vibe of reducing Britain’s reliance on plentiful cheap labour and encouraging productivity through investment, but that argument has t been made. I suppose the Treasury can’t make the argument yet because the budget is still supposed to be secret, but the message could be put out through friendly newspapers.
    The issue here fundamentally is whether people think taxes need to go up. If they do think that they probably prefer the increases to fall nominally on their employer than directly on themselves. They are aware employees will end up paying for the extra taxes on employers but it doesn't show up immediately. The government deflects with the "no extra taxes on working people" rhetoric. Everyone knows they are weasel words, but go along with it.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,822

    This is quite an interesting story.

    'I married the train driver who saved my life'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7ml33pn0zo

    Thanks for sharing, that is one beautiful story.
    Kindness really is everything.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658
    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Emplyer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
    I think we’ll be hearing “jobs tax” a lot from the new Tory leader. Especially when unemployment ticks up.
    How many people get payslips these days? Not a rhetorical question, because I’m interested. I’ve not had a payslip for years. It’s all online somewhere.
    Online payslips are still payslips in the same way an online credit card statement is still a credit card statement.

    And anyone who has pay which can vary will look at their online payslips as intently as they did their old paper versions.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,971
    So the £250 children's trust fund turned out to be just another cash grab by greedy financial institutions.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg7j83drd5o
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,522
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    #New General Election poll - Swing States

    Nevada - 🔵 Harris +1
    Michigan - 🔵 Harris +4
    Pennsylvania - 🔵 Harris +2
    Wisconsin - 🟡 Tie
    Arizona - 🟡 Tie
    Georgia - 🔴 Trump +2
    N. Carolina - 🔴 Trump +2

    Morning Consult (Bloomberg) #C - LV - 10/20
    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1850414788179795990

    The way late-breakers are going for Harris, together with her huge lead with women (16% - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/10/25/harris-trump-poll-gender-gap/75697863007/ when women consistently make up 3-4% more of the electorate - https://cawp.rutgers.edu/facts/voters/gender-differences-voter-turnout#GGN ) I still expect her to win all of those states.
    If late breakers are going for Kamala, then she should be registering a gradual increase in the lead. She isn't. Unless they all pile in on the last day, in which case we are fucked, because we can't predict that.
    You’re assuming polling accurately catches such putative moves.
    That’s questionable.
    True, but that makes things worse not better. It all boils down to "the polls are unreliable". Damn, I hate this election. :(
    Well. yes.
    There’s no good reason to think the polls should be accurate - other than by accident. The difficulty of sampling, and the sheer number of variables which might have changed since 2020 (and 2022) suggest that they’re more likely than not to be wrong, as they have been in most electoral cycles.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting header. Not enough serious thought is going into what a Trump administration would look like. I don't know.

    Which is more likely? A semi-fascist new order? Or a chaotic despotism more like his first term? This may depend on how much Trump will be in charge.

    For analogies, the best I can think of Kaiser Bill, playing with his navy whilst Germany went to hell in a handcart.

    Trump will first of all focus on saving himself, then he will focus on enriching himself.
    Why not all of the above? A chaotic despotism (attempted) as the 2025 types try and do stuff. Trump tries to do his thing, and weirdly clash with the 2025 types on surprising, random stuff. While agreeing with the 2025 types on other random stuff. And fighting the blue states. But also, probably getting push back from red states when he impinges on the flow of pork money….. And stuffing (or trying to stuff) his pockets at the same time.
    These are the guys who are definitely in, whether or not that's true of Project 25.
    You could do worse than read up on them for guidance on stuff that might happen.
    https://americafirstpolicy.com/assets/uploads/files/The-America-First-Transition-Project-Introduction.pdf
    I thought "Project 2025" and "America First" and "Agenda 47" were separate things. Am I misinformed?
    I attended a dinner with one of the leading lights behind Project 2025 a few nights ago. It left me feeling a bit more relaxed about the whole thing. The guy was surprisingly stupid and inarticulate and a lot of the ideas he espoused weren't so much half baked as not even defrosted. This is not a well organised conspiracy.
    If you can't be well organised then be well publicised.

    I suspect its a bunch of wannabes bigging themselves up to be more important than they are.

    The dangerous ones are those that are well organised and keeping quiet.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,068

    So the £250 children's trust fund turned out to be just another cash grab by greedy financial institutions.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg7j83drd5o

    The CTF was a perfect example of the policy that looks fantastic on the pages of a think tank report but turns into an expensive waste of time once the forces of bureaucracy and compromise have done their job on it.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,822

    So the £250 children's trust fund turned out to be just another cash grab by greedy financial institutions.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg7j83drd5o

    To be fair that looks quite an unusual situation. We've been very happy with the administration of our CTF/Junior ISA accounts. We've used them to put something aside to help our three get on the housing ladder when they're ready.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,053

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting header. Not enough serious thought is going into what a Trump administration would look like. I don't know.

    Which is more likely? A semi-fascist new order? Or a chaotic despotism more like his first term? This may depend on how much Trump will be in charge.

    For analogies, the best I can think of Kaiser Bill, playing with his navy whilst Germany went to hell in a handcart.

    Trump will first of all focus on saving himself, then he will focus on enriching himself.
    Why not all of the above? A chaotic despotism (attempted) as the 2025 types try and do stuff. Trump tries to do his thing, and weirdly clash with the 2025 types on surprising, random stuff. While agreeing with the 2025 types on other random stuff. And fighting the blue states. But also, probably getting push back from red states when he impinges on the flow of pork money….. And stuffing (or trying to stuff) his pockets at the same time.
    These are the guys who are definitely in, whether or not that's true of Project 25.
    You could do worse than read up on them for guidance on stuff that might happen.
    https://americafirstpolicy.com/assets/uploads/files/The-America-First-Transition-Project-Introduction.pdf
    I thought "Project 2025" and "America First" and "Agenda 47" were separate things. Am I misinformed?
    I attended a dinner with one of the leading lights behind Project 2025 a few nights ago. It left me feeling a bit more relaxed about the whole thing. The guy was surprisingly stupid and inarticulate and a lot of the ideas he espoused weren't so much half baked as not even defrosted. This is not a well organised conspiracy.
    As far as I am aware, and Godwinning myself, many leading Nazis were not particularly bright, and their organisation not particularly well organised. Ditto the various Marxist groups in Russia in the 1910s.

    What both of these had in common, was a purge of rivals - internal and external - once they gained power. That;s something to watch out for, and the GOP seem to be falling towards.
    I think Goebbels could be put in the category of evil genius, and unfortunately his genius came on stage just at the point modern political publicity and campaigning took off (literally in the case of flying AH around the country). Hitler is of course in a demonic category all his own.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,971

    This is quite an interesting story.

    'I married the train driver who saved my life'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7ml33pn0zo

    Thanks for sharing, that is one beautiful story.
    Kindness really is everything.
    Many years ago, I was waiting at a bus stop on the Mile End Road with a female friend. A young woman walked past, very visibly upset. I went up to her and said a few words; "Are you okay, do you need help," etc, etc. After a few minutes she walked on, I hoped more cheerful. I then thought nothing more of it.

    Later that year, we had a party in the halls, and I got together with a pleasant young lady. She later told me that she had been that girl on the road, and she had been watching me ever since. When I split up with my previous GF, she moved in.

    I'm still friends with both those ladies. I gained a lifelong friend from a few kind words to a stranger.

    (I don't think as a man 30 years older, that I would have the courage to approach a young lady alone in that situation. I might watch what she does closely, though, or see if there's anyone else to help.)
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658

    So the £250 children's trust fund turned out to be just another cash grab by greedy financial institutions.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg7j83drd5o

    The idea was good - giving a start and incentivising savings for children.

    But it seems it needed some active oversight from the parents.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,068

    This is quite an interesting story.

    'I married the train driver who saved my life'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7ml33pn0zo

    Thanks for sharing, that is one beautiful story.
    Kindness really is everything.
    I was reflecting on the importance of the order of events here though. She tracked him down afterwards. That makes it a sweet story. If instead he’d tracked her down, you’d have people condemning a predatory man exploiting a vulnerable woman.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,522

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting header. Not enough serious thought is going into what a Trump administration would look like. I don't know.

    Which is more likely? A semi-fascist new order? Or a chaotic despotism more like his first term? This may depend on how much Trump will be in charge.

    For analogies, the best I can think of Kaiser Bill, playing with his navy whilst Germany went to hell in a handcart.

    Trump will first of all focus on saving himself, then he will focus on enriching himself.
    Why not all of the above? A chaotic despotism (attempted) as the 2025 types try and do stuff. Trump tries to do his thing, and weirdly clash with the 2025 types on surprising, random stuff. While agreeing with the 2025 types on other random stuff. And fighting the blue states. But also, probably getting push back from red states when he impinges on the flow of pork money….. And stuffing (or trying to stuff) his pockets at the same time.
    These are the guys who are definitely in, whether or not that's true of Project 25.
    You could do worse than read up on them for guidance on stuff that might happen.
    https://americafirstpolicy.com/assets/uploads/files/The-America-First-Transition-Project-Introduction.pdf
    I thought "Project 2025" and "America First" and "Agenda 47" were separate things. Am I misinformed?
    I attended a dinner with one of the leading lights behind Project 2025 a few nights ago. It left me feeling a bit more relaxed about the whole thing. The guy was surprisingly stupid and inarticulate and a lot of the ideas he espoused weren't so much half baked as not even defrosted. This is not a well organised conspiracy.
    As far as I am aware, and Godwinning myself, many leading Nazis were not particularly bright, and their organisation not particularly well organised. Ditto the various Marxist groups in Russia in the 1910s.

    What both of these had in common, was a purge of rivals - internal and external - once they gained power. That;s something to watch out for, and the GOP seem to be falling towards.
    I think Goebbels could be put in the category of evil genius, and unfortunately his genius came on stage just at the point modern political publicity and campaigning took off (literally in the case of flying AH around the country). Hitler is of course in a demonic category all his own.
    Somewhat unkindly, but not altogether inaccurately, Stephen Miller is referred to as Discount Goebbels.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,035
    @IanSams

    New ABC poll shows Harris *outperforming* Biden among Black and Latino men

    BLACK MEN
    Harris +74 (‘20 exit poll: Biden +60)

    LATINO MEN
    Harris +27 (‘20: Biden +23)

    https://x.com/IanSams/status/1850514591341580732

    @CharlotteAlter

    👀 2020-2024 swings in latest ABC poll

    Trump still leads w white voters, but his lead has shrunk since 2020.

    White men w college degrees swinging to Harris by 7pts (!)

    65+ voters (v reliable) swinging to Harris by 10 pts (!!)

    (Surprise, Black men are NOT abandoning Harris)

    https://x.com/CharlotteAlter/status/1850524839892644157
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,478
    Scott_xP said:

    @IanSams

    New ABC poll shows Harris *outperforming* Biden among Black and Latino men

    BLACK MEN
    Harris +74 (‘20 exit poll: Biden +60)

    LATINO MEN
    Harris +27 (‘20: Biden +23)

    https://x.com/IanSams/status/1850514591341580732

    @CharlotteAlter

    👀 2020-2024 swings in latest ABC poll

    Trump still leads w white voters, but his lead has shrunk since 2020.

    White men w college degrees swinging to Harris by 7pts (!)

    65+ voters (v reliable) swinging to Harris by 10 pts (!!)

    (Surprise, Black men are NOT abandoning Harris)

    https://x.com/CharlotteAlter/status/1850524839892644157

    These polls are all over the place. Not worth the paper (screen) they are written on.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,068
    edited October 27

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting header. Not enough serious thought is going into what a Trump administration would look like. I don't know.

    Which is more likely? A semi-fascist new order? Or a chaotic despotism more like his first term? This may depend on how much Trump will be in charge.

    For analogies, the best I can think of Kaiser Bill, playing with his navy whilst Germany went to hell in a handcart.

    Trump will first of all focus on saving himself, then he will focus on enriching himself.
    Why not all of the above? A chaotic despotism (attempted) as the 2025 types try and do stuff. Trump tries to do his thing, and weirdly clash with the 2025 types on surprising, random stuff. While agreeing with the 2025 types on other random stuff. And fighting the blue states. But also, probably getting push back from red states when he impinges on the flow of pork money….. And stuffing (or trying to stuff) his pockets at the same time.
    These are the guys who are definitely in, whether or not that's true of Project 25.
    You could do worse than read up on them for guidance on stuff that might happen.
    https://americafirstpolicy.com/assets/uploads/files/The-America-First-Transition-Project-Introduction.pdf
    I thought "Project 2025" and "America First" and "Agenda 47" were separate things. Am I misinformed?
    I attended a dinner with one of the leading lights behind Project 2025 a few nights ago. It left me feeling a bit more relaxed about the whole thing. The guy was surprisingly stupid and inarticulate and a lot of the ideas he espoused weren't so much half baked as not even defrosted. This is not a well organised conspiracy.
    As far as I am aware, and Godwinning myself, many leading Nazis were not particularly bright, and their organisation not particularly well organised. Ditto the various Marxist groups in Russia in the 1910s.

    What both of these had in common, was a purge of rivals - internal and external - once they gained power. That;s something to watch out for, and the GOP seem to be falling towards.
    I think Goebbels could be put in the category of evil genius, and unfortunately his genius came on stage just at the point modern political publicity and campaigning took off (literally in the case of flying AH around the country). Hitler is of course in a demonic category all his own.
    This is where Godwinning can be a fun exercise. The thing with the Nazis (and Stalin’s coterie particularly since the death of Stalin film) is they are known personalities - an ensemble cast. So you can compare each of them with their contemporary equivalents.

    Goering the corpulent old crime boss and hedonist, Himmler the cultishly loyal ideologue, Goebbels the evil genius, Hess the confused striver etc.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,837
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    It’s on there for the few companies I’ve worked for.
    MaxPB said:

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Emplyer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
    I think we’ll be hearing “jobs tax” a lot from the new Tory leader. Especially when unemployment ticks up.
    How many people get payslips these days? Not a rhetorical question, because I’m interested. I’ve not had a payslip for years. It’s all online somewhere.
    Online, but even on those it shows employers NI for the month and YTD, I think it's the law, maybe Labour will change that so it doesn't show on payslips?
    My payslip doesn't show employers NI, or employers contribution to my superannuation for that matter, so it doesn't look like a legal requirement to me.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,291
    edited October 27
    TimS said:

    So the £250 children's trust fund turned out to be just another cash grab by greedy financial institutions.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg7j83drd5o

    The CTF was a perfect example of the policy that looks fantastic on the pages of a think tank report but turns into an expensive waste of time once the forces of bureaucracy and compromise have done their job on it.
    Putting aside what appears to be an edge case, I think another issue with this idea, the sums are too small unless the parents get actively involved, but then that isn't really the idea of the scheme i.e. it wasn't supposed to really be a scheme to enable parent rich parents to shovel loads of tax free cash in the name of their kids.

    I know the idea is a nudge to get parents going in the direction of saving for their kids, but I think its something that the financially literate do already, but if they couldn't afford to / put it off, just £250 invested and left over 18 years isn't going to turn into anything much, other than paying for a birthday bash.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,035

    Scott_xP said:

    @IanSams

    New ABC poll shows Harris *outperforming* Biden among Black and Latino men

    BLACK MEN
    Harris +74 (‘20 exit poll: Biden +60)

    LATINO MEN
    Harris +27 (‘20: Biden +23)

    https://x.com/IanSams/status/1850514591341580732

    @CharlotteAlter

    👀 2020-2024 swings in latest ABC poll

    Trump still leads w white voters, but his lead has shrunk since 2020.

    White men w college degrees swinging to Harris by 7pts (!)

    65+ voters (v reliable) swinging to Harris by 10 pts (!!)

    (Surprise, Black men are NOT abandoning Harris)

    https://x.com/CharlotteAlter/status/1850524839892644157

    These polls are all over the place. Not worth the paper (screen) they are written on.
    That may be true, but from a betting perspective they suggest if Harris wins, it will be big
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,307
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    It’s on there for the few companies I’ve worked for.
    MaxPB said:

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Emplyer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
    I think we’ll be hearing “jobs tax” a lot from the new Tory leader. Especially when unemployment ticks up.
    How many people get payslips these days? Not a rhetorical question, because I’m interested. I’ve not had a payslip for years. It’s all online somewhere.
    Online, but even on those it shows employers NI for the month and YTD, I think it's the law, maybe Labour will change that so it doesn't show on payslips?
    My payslip doesn't show employers NI, or employers contribution to my superannuation for that matter, so it doesn't look like a legal requirement to me.
    Besides, I suspect a lot of people navigate by the number going into their account each month. Possibly unwisely, but easier than logging onto a separate secure system.

    Maybe why there was minimal electoral reward for the 4p off NI.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,576
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    It’s on there for the few companies I’ve worked for.
    Simple fix - ban putting employers NI on the pay slips.

    Years ago, I worked with a chap who had a project, at the oil company to design a petrol pump that could be used in every petrol station around the world. Sounds easy? Had to meet ever different set of laws and regulations, in 90 countries.

    Anyway, the final design had an LCD display, showing amount pumped price. And all the tax paid. That’s required in some countries.

    Suddenly, the U.K. government told him that the pump was unacceptable and couldn’t be used in the U.K.

    Eventually, it was whispered to him that displaying the tax proportion of the price like that was the problem.

    A couple of years before the Fuel Strike, IIRC.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,209

    So the £250 children's trust fund turned out to be just another cash grab by greedy financial institutions.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg7j83drd5o

    They should get those charges refunded. Pretty clear they are in breach of FCA consumer duty of care regulations in place at the time and beefed up since.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,083

    Scott_xP said:

    @IanSams

    New ABC poll shows Harris *outperforming* Biden among Black and Latino men

    BLACK MEN
    Harris +74 (‘20 exit poll: Biden +60)

    LATINO MEN
    Harris +27 (‘20: Biden +23)

    https://x.com/IanSams/status/1850514591341580732

    @CharlotteAlter

    👀 2020-2024 swings in latest ABC poll

    Trump still leads w white voters, but his lead has shrunk since 2020.

    White men w college degrees swinging to Harris by 7pts (!)

    65+ voters (v reliable) swinging to Harris by 10 pts (!!)

    (Surprise, Black men are NOT abandoning Harris)

    https://x.com/CharlotteAlter/status/1850524839892644157

    These polls are all over the place. Not worth the paper (screen) they are written on.
    To be fair to American pollsters, they have narrowed it down to one of two.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,083
    edited October 27
    KWASI KWARTENG: Okay, my Budget wasn't perfect - but this one will be naked class war
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14006593/Kwaski-Kwarteng-budget-class-war.html

    The Mail proves satire is not dead.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,576
    TimS said:

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting header. Not enough serious thought is going into what a Trump administration would look like. I don't know.

    Which is more likely? A semi-fascist new order? Or a chaotic despotism more like his first term? This may depend on how much Trump will be in charge.

    For analogies, the best I can think of Kaiser Bill, playing with his navy whilst Germany went to hell in a handcart.

    Trump will first of all focus on saving himself, then he will focus on enriching himself.
    Why not all of the above? A chaotic despotism (attempted) as the 2025 types try and do stuff. Trump tries to do his thing, and weirdly clash with the 2025 types on surprising, random stuff. While agreeing with the 2025 types on other random stuff. And fighting the blue states. But also, probably getting push back from red states when he impinges on the flow of pork money….. And stuffing (or trying to stuff) his pockets at the same time.
    These are the guys who are definitely in, whether or not that's true of Project 25.
    You could do worse than read up on them for guidance on stuff that might happen.
    https://americafirstpolicy.com/assets/uploads/files/The-America-First-Transition-Project-Introduction.pdf
    I thought "Project 2025" and "America First" and "Agenda 47" were separate things. Am I misinformed?
    I attended a dinner with one of the leading lights behind Project 2025 a few nights ago. It left me feeling a bit more relaxed about the whole thing. The guy was surprisingly stupid and inarticulate and a lot of the ideas he espoused weren't so much half baked as not even defrosted. This is not a well organised conspiracy.
    As far as I am aware, and Godwinning myself, many leading Nazis were not particularly bright, and their organisation not particularly well organised. Ditto the various Marxist groups in Russia in the 1910s.

    What both of these had in common, was a purge of rivals - internal and external - once they gained power. That;s something to watch out for, and the GOP seem to be falling towards.
    I think Goebbels could be put in the category of evil genius, and unfortunately his genius came on stage just at the point modern political publicity and campaigning took off (literally in the case of flying AH around the country). Hitler is of course in a demonic category all his own.
    This is where Godwinning can be a fun exercise. The thing with the Nazis (and Stalin’s coterie particularly since the death of Stalin film) is they are known personalities - an ensemble cast. So you can compare each of them with their contemporary equivalents.

    Goering the corpulent old crime boss and hedonist, Himmler the cultishly loyal ideologue, Goebbels the evil genius, Hess the confused striver etc.
    “Ah, ze master race. Blond like Hitler. Physically perfect like Goebbels. Slim like Goering. Tall with perfect eyesight like Himmler. Geniuses like Hess….”
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,291
    edited October 27
    Exit poll suggests Japan ruling party set to fall short of majority

    It comes after a tumultuous few years for the LDP which saw a “cascade” of scandals, widespread voter apathy and record-low approval ratings.

    The party had seen approval ratings of below 20% earlier in the year, in the wake of a political fundraising corruption scandal. Yet opposition parties have failed to unite, or convince voters they are a viable option to govern. The main opposition party had an approval rating of just 6.6% before parliament was dissolved.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xpev42g78o

    And we think our current mobs are unpopular...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,035
    Anybody else notice that "visionary tech bro" Elon has been handing out his millions to voters, not with crypto, not even with PayPal, but with physical checks (sic)

    What a luddite...
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,849

    Taz said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They seem to have an inability to stop digging once in a hole.

    I would have expected their comms strategy to be more slick.
    They just asked Rachel Reeves on BBC News if she was a working person. The inability to approach answering the question was rather telling.
    Their problem is that a number of their most prominent "media round" figures aren't particularly convincing/disciplined media performers.

    Reeves comes across as tentative and unsteady. Phillipson seems to go off message and dig herself into a hole every time she appears. Starmer - well, I've already covered how he deals with media, and it isn't great.

    Streeting is better (though can have the same slight air of indignation as Starmer from time to time). The one who I think they should use more of is Jonathan Reynolds - a bit of an unknown quantity to me before the GE, but has come across relatively well when I've seen him interviewed. Cooper is always reliable, too.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,837

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    It’s on there for the few companies I’ve worked for.
    MaxPB said:

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Emplyer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
    I think we’ll be hearing “jobs tax” a lot from the new Tory leader. Especially when unemployment ticks up.
    How many people get payslips these days? Not a rhetorical question, because I’m interested. I’ve not had a payslip for years. It’s all online somewhere.
    Online, but even on those it shows employers NI for the month and YTD, I think it's the law, maybe Labour will change that so it doesn't show on payslips?
    My payslip doesn't show employers NI, or employers contribution to my superannuation for that matter, so it doesn't look like a legal requirement to me.
    Besides, I suspect a lot of people navigate by the number going into their account each month. Possibly unwisely, but easier than logging onto a separate secure system.

    Maybe why there was minimal electoral reward for the 4p off NI.
    I check each month, but mostly to see if overtime and bank shifts have been paid, I don't look particularly at the deductions. I did this month as got the back pay for this year's pay settlement.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,706
    Scott_xP said:

    Anybody else notice that "visionary tech bro" Elon has been handing out his millions to voters, not with crypto, not even with PayPal, but with physical checks (sic)

    What a luddite...

    Could have triggered some on here if instead it was physical slabs of wonga....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,576
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @IanSams

    New ABC poll shows Harris *outperforming* Biden among Black and Latino men

    BLACK MEN
    Harris +74 (‘20 exit poll: Biden +60)

    LATINO MEN
    Harris +27 (‘20: Biden +23)

    https://x.com/IanSams/status/1850514591341580732

    @CharlotteAlter

    👀 2020-2024 swings in latest ABC poll

    Trump still leads w white voters, but his lead has shrunk since 2020.

    White men w college degrees swinging to Harris by 7pts (!)

    65+ voters (v reliable) swinging to Harris by 10 pts (!!)

    (Surprise, Black men are NOT abandoning Harris)

    https://x.com/CharlotteAlter/status/1850524839892644157

    These polls are all over the place. Not worth the paper (screen) they are written on.
    That may be true, but from a betting perspective they suggest if Harris wins, it will be big
    The way it will work is that the margin is narrow, but because of the EC, the margin of EC votes may well not be. Either way.

    We are still within margin of polling error in nearly every swing state. Anyone panicking either way is an idiot.

    The sane behaviour is to keep campaigning hard till the end, make sure the turnout machine is prepped, hire all the lawyers. And make a fuck ton of coffee for everyone.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,706

    Exit poll suggests Japan ruling party set to fall short of majority

    It comes after a tumultuous few years for the LDP which saw a “cascade” of scandals, widespread voter apathy and record-low approval ratings.

    The party had seen approval ratings of below 20% earlier in the year, in the wake of a political fundraising corruption scandal. Yet opposition parties have failed to unite, or convince voters they are a viable option to govern. The main opposition party had an approval rating of just 6.6% before parliament was dissolved.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xpev42g78o

    And we think our current mobs are unpopular...

    If only we had some pb-ers on the ground to report back the political intricacies...
  • Nigelb said:

    An interesting header, Stephen, which encouraged me to check out your substack.

    You seem broadly sympathetic with the idea of rolling back the administrative state, but doubt that a second Trump administration would have the capacity to achieve that.

    Setting that question aside for a moment, the attempt would likely make it less efficient, as this suggests.

    The risks of Schedule F for administrative capacity and government accountability
    https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-risks-of-schedule-f-for-administrative-capacity-and-government-accountability/

    The Trump GOP is undoubtedly far better prepared than it was eight years ago for such an attempt. The team around him is fully committed to the idea, rather than being old style Washington insiders, and there has been a serious, years long effort to work out how they might go about it.

    So I don't think you can look at Trump term one for serious guidance about how term two might unfold, were it to happen.

    As you correctly note, one of the bigger hurdles might be legislative. But a GOP House is quite possible in the context of the polls being wrong in favour of Trump - and the Senate almost a certainty.

    Thanks for this Nigel. I agree with you that Schedule F looks pretty much the worst way of reforming the administrative state!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,291
    Scott_xP said:

    Anybody else notice that "visionary tech bro" Elon has been handing out his millions to voters, not with crypto, not even with PayPal, but with physical checks (sic)

    What a luddite...

    For the same reason, lottery winners get to stand with a comedy sized cheque. Its how you do the marketing / PR.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,576

    Scott_xP said:

    Anybody else notice that "visionary tech bro" Elon has been handing out his millions to voters, not with crypto, not even with PayPal, but with physical checks (sic)

    What a luddite...

    For the same reason, lottery winners get to stand with a comedy sized cheque. Its how you do the marketing / PR.
    In addition, the US is very much behind in electronic payments.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,522
    Tariffs are just a concrete example of Trump’s ‘concepts of a plan’.

    Trump says the CHIPS and Science Act, which brings thousands of manufacturing jobs back to America, “is so bad” and says he wants to replace it with tariffs that will raise prices on the middle class
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1850250706193653782

    Any such attempt would be a serious negative for US tech.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Anybody else notice that "visionary tech bro" Elon has been handing out his millions to voters, not with crypto, not even with PayPal, but with physical checks (sic)

    What a luddite...

    That would be the PayPal he founded?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,522
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    It’s on there for the few companies I’ve worked for.
    MaxPB said:

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Emplyer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
    I think we’ll be hearing “jobs tax” a lot from the new Tory leader. Especially when unemployment ticks up.
    How many people get payslips these days? Not a rhetorical question, because I’m interested. I’ve not had a payslip for years. It’s all online somewhere.
    Online, but even on those it shows employers NI for the month and YTD, I think it's the law, maybe Labour will change that so it doesn't show on payslips?
    My payslip doesn't show employers NI, or employers contribution to my superannuation for that matter, so it doesn't look like a legal requirement to me.
    I’m pretty sure Sandpit’s doesn’t.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,291
    edited October 27

    Scott_xP said:

    Anybody else notice that "visionary tech bro" Elon has been handing out his millions to voters, not with crypto, not even with PayPal, but with physical checks (sic)

    What a luddite...

    For the same reason, lottery winners get to stand with a comedy sized cheque. Its how you do the marketing / PR.
    In addition, the US is very much behind in electronic payments.
    Is that still true in general? At least for small amounts lots of people used Zelle, Venmo, CashApp. Obviously for a $1 million, Musk isn't Venmo'ing that.

    The most annoying thing about US banking, they love charges on everything. Cash out, cash in...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,576

    Exit poll suggests Japan ruling party set to fall short of majority

    It comes after a tumultuous few years for the LDP which saw a “cascade” of scandals, widespread voter apathy and record-low approval ratings.

    The party had seen approval ratings of below 20% earlier in the year, in the wake of a political fundraising corruption scandal. Yet opposition parties have failed to unite, or convince voters they are a viable option to govern. The main opposition party had an approval rating of just 6.6% before parliament was dissolved.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xpev42g78o

    And we think our current mobs are unpopular...

    Some have suggested that a populist leader is the next comedy for Japan…

    Looks ripe for it - the opposition parties are seen as part of the problem.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,656

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    It’s on there for the few companies I’ve worked for.
    Simple fix - ban putting employers NI on the pay slips.

    Years ago, I worked with a chap who had a project, at the oil company to design a petrol pump that could be used in every petrol station around the world. Sounds easy? Had to meet ever different set of laws and regulations, in 90 countries.

    Anyway, the final design had an LCD display, showing amount pumped price. And all the tax paid. That’s required in some countries.

    Suddenly, the U.K. government told him that the pump was unacceptable and couldn’t be used in the U.K.

    Eventually, it was whispered to him that displaying the tax proportion of the price like that was the problem.

    A couple of years before the Fuel Strike, IIRC.
    I’ll keep it suitably vague, but I used to work for a company that sold IT to the hospitality industry. By far the most complex part of the whole system configuration, were the various jurisdictional requirements for how a bill must look.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,822

    KWASI KWARTENG: Okay, my Budget wasn't perfect - but this one will be naked class war
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14006593/Kwaski-Kwarteng-budget-class-war.html

    The Mail proves satire is not dead.

    The centrepiece of his budget being... checks notes... a tax cut for those on over £150k a year. Yeah definitely no class war from Old Etonian Kwarteng going on there.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,522

    Nigelb said:

    An interesting header, Stephen, which encouraged me to check out your substack.

    You seem broadly sympathetic with the idea of rolling back the administrative state, but doubt that a second Trump administration would have the capacity to achieve that.

    Setting that question aside for a moment, the attempt would likely make it less efficient, as this suggests.

    The risks of Schedule F for administrative capacity and government accountability
    https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-risks-of-schedule-f-for-administrative-capacity-and-government-accountability/

    The Trump GOP is undoubtedly far better prepared than it was eight years ago for such an attempt. The team around him is fully committed to the idea, rather than being old style Washington insiders, and there has been a serious, years long effort to work out how they might go about it.

    So I don't think you can look at Trump term one for serious guidance about how term two might unfold, were it to happen.

    As you correctly note, one of the bigger hurdles might be legislative. But a GOP House is quite possible in the context of the polls being wrong in favour of Trump - and the Senate almost a certainty.

    Thanks for this Nigel. I agree with you that Schedule F looks pretty much the worst way of reforming the administrative state!
    I don’t think ‘reform’ is really on the agenda, though.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,576

    Scott_xP said:

    Anybody else notice that "visionary tech bro" Elon has been handing out his millions to voters, not with crypto, not even with PayPal, but with physical checks (sic)

    What a luddite...

    For the same reason, lottery winners get to stand with a comedy sized cheque. Its how you do the marketing / PR.
    In addition, the US is very much behind in electronic payments.
    Is that still true? At least for small amounts lots of people used Zelle, Venmo, CashApp.
    Ask the average USA’ian about Contactless….
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,576

    Scott_xP said:

    Anybody else notice that "visionary tech bro" Elon has been handing out his millions to voters, not with crypto, not even with PayPal, but with physical checks (sic)

    What a luddite...

    That would be the PayPal he founded?
    He didn’t found PayPal - he was involved and he money he got from it when it was sold was the start of his fortune.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,837

    Exit poll suggests Japan ruling party set to fall short of majority

    It comes after a tumultuous few years for the LDP which saw a “cascade” of scandals, widespread voter apathy and record-low approval ratings.

    The party had seen approval ratings of below 20% earlier in the year, in the wake of a political fundraising corruption scandal. Yet opposition parties have failed to unite, or convince voters they are a viable option to govern. The main opposition party had an approval rating of just 6.6% before parliament was dissolved.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xpev42g78o

    And we think our current mobs are unpopular...

    If only we had some pb-ers on the ground to report back the political intricacies...
    Too busy shopping for cheap red wine.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,656
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    It’s on there for the few companies I’ve worked for.
    MaxPB said:

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    No tax rises in payslips for 'working people', vows minister

    Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has said "working people" would not see higher taxes on their payslips following Wednesday's Budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789915n5elo

    I really don't know what they are digging this hole. Its as believable as Chris Kaba was an architect. Just be straight up with people.

    They do know that Employer NI appears on payslips, no?
    Not on any payslip I've ever had.

    Employee's NI does but Employers NI is the tax that the worker effectively pays but is hidden from them.
    Every single payslip I ever had in the UK had Employer NI as a line item.

    A really quick search for UK payslip templates has the first half a dozen hits also with an Emplyer NI line item. https://www.payslipsonline.co.uk/resource/products/88745/74e462c4.jpg
    I think we’ll be hearing “jobs tax” a lot from the new Tory leader. Especially when unemployment ticks up.
    How many people get payslips these days? Not a rhetorical question, because I’m interested. I’ve not had a payslip for years. It’s all online somewhere.
    Online, but even on those it shows employers NI for the month and YTD, I think it's the law, maybe Labour will change that so it doesn't show on payslips?
    My payslip doesn't show employers NI, or employers contribution to my superannuation for that matter, so it doesn't look like a legal requirement to me.
    I’m pretty sure Sandpit’s doesn’t.
    Not at the moment it doesn’t!
This discussion has been closed.