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The scale of the Tory challenge (and why being a lawyer helps Jenrick) – politicalbetting.com

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  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,466

    FF43 said:

    I would say Keir Starmer does appear to have more interest in the arts than most recent politicians. And FWIW the paintings he has removed are not very good ones in my inexpert opinion, leaving aside their subjects.

    He is a philistine lacking in character.. wooden. ...
    The only art he seems into is that Amrican singer people go mad about... it's a form of hysteria alin to the Beatles in he 60s.

    Yup ...

    https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/sir-keir-starmer-flute-recorder-guildhall-scholar/

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,413

    MattW said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Glad to see that Labour are shutting down the whole slavery apology business. It will irk a lot of their support base but fundamentally we shouldn't be sorry for it, no one who is alive today perpetrated slavery and I think apologising for it opens the door to reparations which is obviously a non-starter. If that means more Caribbean countries leave the commonwealth then so be it, let them throw their lot in with China and suffer the fate of Sri Lanka.

    Apologising for slavery is quite good for the UK because it highlights just how much better we were at abolishing it. If Labour put up a statue of Wilberforce on the 4th plinth at the same time it would be quite the PR coup. Or even a HMS Wilberforce given the role the RN played .

    Could even link it to other historical "wins" like Magna Carta to really wind up people on facebook.
    No it isn't because the logical course is "well you say you're sorry but words are empty" to which the government will either have to say "words aren't empty" and struggle to justify not having a reparations programme for the Caribbean and some African countries or they'll have to go into a reparations programme willingly.

    We have nothing to apologise for, all great nations and empires were built on the back of slavery of some kind. Subjugation of the "lesser" still occurs today, where is the outcry about indentured servitude and slavery across the middle east of South Asians and black Africans?

    Fundamentally we don't open the door to these conversations and for once Labour seem to have a bit of a backbone on it. Next stop let's cut the aid budget to 0.2% of GDP and reserve it for disaster relief, it's time for us to look after our own.
    One of the strengths of the UK is that we can look back at the past and reflect that some of the things we did as a nation was pretty awful. It helps us avoid the sense of entitlement that pervades Putin's Russia, for example, while allowing us to celebrate our abolition of slave the trade. You can't pick and choose.

    Indeed, that same reflection is why we can look at the what is happening to people in Africa and South Asia now and say - "hey, that's shitty behaviour!" without looking like a bunch of hypocrites.

    This link you keep making to reperations is baseless. Sturgeon issues an apology to witches a few years ago, and it brought out attention to some of the awful things that happen to women now and in the past, for zero cost.
    How many museums of and monuments to the victims of the slave trade are there, just to compliment us celebrating ‘our abolition of the slave trade’?

    As an inhabitant of Edinburgh I imagine you’re aware of the stushie in St Andrew Square re attempts to put up a plaque referencing Lord Dundas’s less than glorious part in the end of slavery. It keeps getting knocked back & removed by his descendants who hate nasty things being said about their ancestor, not exactly lacking in entitled whitewashing.
    The people who say we should be proud of our past positives (Shakespeare, Magna Carta, Standing alone against the Hun etc) are often the very same people who say we should not be ashamed of our past negatives (like slavery).

    This doesn't quite scan for me. Because feeling the pride assumes an identification of yourself with the nation. With Britain (or Scotland in your case). But if you do have that identification how come it gets put aside for the bad stuff?
    That claim seems to require a bit of exactness. Who exactly says 'we should not be ashamed of our past slavery'? I can't think of anyone, however much they like an upbeat narrative of our national history.

    What people correctly do is place it in global and historical context, point out our part in overcoming it and so on. That is completely different from it not being a shaming fact about our past.

    At a deeper level of course there is the question of how we now can have any sort of shameful accountability for any actions in the past not done by those now living. But that's a universal question, not just one for the mythical 'slavery didn't and doesn't matter' brigade.
    Someone on this thread has literally said we (the UK) shouldn’t feel sorry for slavery.
    Have to admit it was shocking to see that here.

    It's a morality from the dark ages. It's expected in criminal gang circles of various stripes, but not put forward in public as acceptable.

    As a philosophy it doesn't stand up so well if you are on the receiving end. And a philosophy that only works for one group does not stand.
    Since low wage immigration is awesome, I advocate zero wage involuntary migration.

    What? Is it something I said?
    Your turn to clean out the troll litter tray.

    (Come to think of it, do any of us know how to housetrain a Russian troll?)
    You stuff it inside another Russian troll, then inside another, and so on.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,926

    Starmer derangement syndrome is magnificent. There is so much projection involved in it.

    If you don't have a picture of Shakespeare in your sitting room does it mean you hate Britain? I better find one double quick.

    By the time he's done he'll get Tracey Emin to turn the Downing Street flat into an art installation while he moves permanently into Lord Alli's penthouse.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,466

    Starmer derangement syndrome is magnificent. There is so much projection involved in it.

    If you don't have a picture of Shakespeare in your sitting room does it mean you hate Britain? I better find one double quick.

    By the time he's done he'll get Tracey Emin to turn the Downing Street flat into an art installation while he moves permanently into Lord Alli's penthouse.

    I would say that is almost certain.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,984
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    I learn a lot from reading PB, but I confess I'm astonished to read that Starmer feels threatened by Shakespeare. Surely he must know that he's dead?

    Modern culture involves time compression to the extreme (see Rings of Power, where events in the source take 1000 years. In the series they take an afternoon)

    Starmer is probably under the impression that Shakespeare was the last Poet Laureate.
    He should consult his Foreign Secretary, he would know

    His Foreign Secretary probably thinks a "shakespeare" is a dergatory term for a Zulu...
    A hit, a very palpable hit.
    "We gave Johnny Shakespeare a damn good thrashing at Rorke's Drift and no mistake!"
    Question - is stabbing playwrights in pubs in Deptford part of British culture?
    What or whom are the playwrights stabbing?

    https://www.marlowe-society.org/christopher-marlowe/life/death-in-deptford/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,984
    edited October 20

    MattW said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Glad to see that Labour are shutting down the whole slavery apology business. It will irk a lot of their support base but fundamentally we shouldn't be sorry for it, no one who is alive today perpetrated slavery and I think apologising for it opens the door to reparations which is obviously a non-starter. If that means more Caribbean countries leave the commonwealth then so be it, let them throw their lot in with China and suffer the fate of Sri Lanka.

    Apologising for slavery is quite good for the UK because it highlights just how much better we were at abolishing it. If Labour put up a statue of Wilberforce on the 4th plinth at the same time it would be quite the PR coup. Or even a HMS Wilberforce given the role the RN played .

    Could even link it to other historical "wins" like Magna Carta to really wind up people on facebook.
    No it isn't because the logical course is "well you say you're sorry but words are empty" to which the government will either have to say "words aren't empty" and struggle to justify not having a reparations programme for the Caribbean and some African countries or they'll have to go into a reparations programme willingly.

    We have nothing to apologise for, all great nations and empires were built on the back of slavery of some kind. Subjugation of the "lesser" still occurs today, where is the outcry about indentured servitude and slavery across the middle east of South Asians and black Africans?

    Fundamentally we don't open the door to these conversations and for once Labour seem to have a bit of a backbone on it. Next stop let's cut the aid budget to 0.2% of GDP and reserve it for disaster relief, it's time for us to look after our own.
    One of the strengths of the UK is that we can look back at the past and reflect that some of the things we did as a nation was pretty awful. It helps us avoid the sense of entitlement that pervades Putin's Russia, for example, while allowing us to celebrate our abolition of slave the trade. You can't pick and choose.

    Indeed, that same reflection is why we can look at the what is happening to people in Africa and South Asia now and say - "hey, that's shitty behaviour!" without looking like a bunch of hypocrites.

    This link you keep making to reperations is baseless. Sturgeon issues an apology to witches a few years ago, and it brought out attention to some of the awful things that happen to women now and in the past, for zero cost.
    How many museums of and monuments to the victims of the slave trade are there, just to compliment us celebrating ‘our abolition of the slave trade’?

    As an inhabitant of Edinburgh I imagine you’re aware of the stushie in St Andrew Square re attempts to put up a plaque referencing Lord Dundas’s less than glorious part in the end of slavery. It keeps getting knocked back & removed by his descendants who hate nasty things being said about their ancestor, not exactly lacking in entitled whitewashing.
    The people who say we should be proud of our past positives (Shakespeare, Magna Carta, Standing alone against the Hun etc) are often the very same people who say we should not be ashamed of our past negatives (like slavery).

    This doesn't quite scan for me. Because feeling the pride assumes an identification of yourself with the nation. With Britain (or Scotland in your case). But if you do have that identification how come it gets put aside for the bad stuff?
    That claim seems to require a bit of exactness. Who exactly says 'we should not be ashamed of our past slavery'? I can't think of anyone, however much they like an upbeat narrative of our national history.

    What people correctly do is place it in global and historical context, point out our part in overcoming it and so on. That is completely different from it not being a shaming fact about our past.

    At a deeper level of course there is the question of how we now can have any sort of shameful accountability for any actions in the past not done by those now living. But that's a universal question, not just one for the mythical 'slavery didn't and doesn't matter' brigade.
    Someone on this thread has literally said we (the UK) shouldn’t feel sorry for slavery.
    Have to admit it was shocking to see that here.

    It's a morality from the dark ages. It's expected in criminal gang circles of various stripes, but not put forward in public as acceptable.

    As a philosophy it doesn't stand up so well if you are on the receiving end. And a philosophy that only works for one group does not stand.
    Since low wage immigration is awesome, I advocate zero wage involuntary migration.

    What? Is it something I said?
    Your turn to clean out the troll litter tray.

    (Come to think of it, do any of us know how to housetrain a Russian troll?)
    Where's @DougSeal? - bet he could get the troll to balance a ball on his nose....
  • FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I would say Keir Starmer does appear to have more interest in the arts than most recent politicians. And FWIW the paintings he has removed are not very good ones in my inexpert opinion, leaving aside their subjects.

    He is a philistine lacking in character.. wooden. ...
    The only art he seems into is that Amrican singer people go mad about... it's a form of hysteria alin to the Beatles in he 60s.
    The funny thing about this painting is that it is a copy made by a sculptor of another more famous painting - he was working on a Shakespeare sculpture at the time - but he didn't know how to paint.
    I think Starmer will turn out like Gordon Brown. God help us all.
    The pick pocket chancellor.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,551

    I learn a lot from reading PB, but I confess I'm astonished to read that Starmer feels threatened by Shakespeare. Surely he must know that he's dead?

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15758524/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk
    Thou can’s not say I did it,
    Shake not thou gory locks at me.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,843

    FF43 said:

    I would say Keir Starmer does appear to have more interest in the arts than most recent politicians. And FWIW the paintings he has removed are not very good ones in my inexpert opinion, leaving aside their subjects.

    He is a philistine lacking in character.. wooden. ...
    The only art he seems into is that Amrican singer people go mad about... it's a form of hysteria alin to the Beatles in he 60s.

    Yup ...

    https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/sir-keir-starmer-flute-recorder-guildhall-scholar/

    Irony being that Starmer probably has more hinterland than... Sunak, Truss and Johnson combined. (Willing to go +/- 1 on that, but it's a big difference.) One of the consequences of his being a serious-minded self-improver being that he takes the arts seriously rather than as a way to signal patriotism.

    I suspect he would be happier at the penultimate night of the Proms, rather than the last night.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,590

    FF43 said:

    I would say Keir Starmer does appear to have more interest in the arts than most recent politicians. And FWIW the paintings he has removed are not very good ones in my inexpert opinion, leaving aside their subjects.

    He is a philistine lacking in character.. wooden. ...
    The only art he seems into is that Amrican singer people go mad about... it's a form of hysteria alin to the Beatles in he 60s.

    Yup ...

    https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/sir-keir-starmer-flute-recorder-guildhall-scholar/

    Irony being that Starmer probably has more hinterland than... Sunak, Truss and Johnson combined. (Willing to go +/- 1 on that, but it's a big difference.) One of the consequences of his being a serious-minded self-improver being that he takes the arts seriously rather than as a way to signal patriotism.

    I suspect he would be happier at the penultimate night of the Proms, rather than the last night.
    I take the arts seriously. No better excuse for a drink.

    They're not that good generally that you don't need a double either!
  • CJohnCJohn Posts: 4
    More than another national icon, Shakespeare is a towering dramatic genius, who is best honoured by attending his plays.

    None of you have the slightest idea whether Starmer likes, loves, is indifferent to Shakespeare, or thinks he's "over-rated".

    This is a total non-story.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,984
    CJohn said:

    More than another national icon, Shakespeare is a towering dramatic genius, who is best honoured by attending his plays.

    None of you have the slightest idea whether Starmer likes, loves, is indifferent to Shakespeare, or thinks he's "over-rated".

    This is a total non-story.

    Nothing makes a story, like a declaration that it is a "non-story"
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,195
    New Zealand win the Women’s t20 World Cup. Magnificent!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,466
    CJohn said:

    More than another national icon, Shakespeare is a towering dramatic genius, who is best honoured by attending his plays.

    None of you have the slightest idea whether Starmer likes, loves, is indifferent to Shakespeare, or thinks he's "over-rated".

    This is a total non-story.

    And read his sonnets. Or listen to Judy Dench:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_X1dbO-quI

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,590
    CJohn said:

    More than another national icon, Shakespeare is a towering dramatic genius, who is best honoured by attending his plays.

    None of you have the slightest idea whether Starmer likes, loves, is indifferent to Shakespeare, or thinks he's "over-rated".

    This is a total non-story.

    RHunt will/would surely make similar points.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,984

    FF43 said:

    I would say Keir Starmer does appear to have more interest in the arts than most recent politicians. And FWIW the paintings he has removed are not very good ones in my inexpert opinion, leaving aside their subjects.

    He is a philistine lacking in character.. wooden. ...
    The only art he seems into is that Amrican singer people go mad about... it's a form of hysteria alin to the Beatles in he 60s.

    Yup ...

    https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/sir-keir-starmer-flute-recorder-guildhall-scholar/

    Irony being that Starmer probably has more hinterland than... Sunak, Truss and Johnson combined. (Willing to go +/- 1 on that, but it's a big difference.) One of the consequences of his being a serious-minded self-improver being that he takes the arts seriously rather than as a way to signal patriotism.

    I suspect he would be happier at the penultimate night of the Proms, rather than the last night.
    The thing I find interesting about the Last Night of the Proms, is how upset some people are at its "low artistic values". There are plenty of other concerts of classical music...

    Bit like the angry letters decrying the evil of *existence* Classic FM.. It's not like Radio 3 doesn't exist or even more hyper-purist classical channels on the web.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,069
    SKSDS is indeed a serious affliction.

    One sends one’s thoughts and prayers to the PB Tories who remain scarred by CURRYGATE, and now have to face this.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,793
    edited October 20
    Amazing results from British Columbia last night where the overall result has come down to about 90 votes in two constituencies.

    https://bc.ctvnews.ca/bc-election-2024
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,775

    Starmer derangement syndrome is magnificent. There is so much projection involved in it.

    If you don't have a picture of Shakespeare in your sitting room does it mean you hate Britain? I better find one double quick.

    By the time he's done he'll get LULU LYTLE to turn the Downing Street flat into an art installation while he moves SEMI permanently into Lord BAMFORD'S COUNTRY PILE.
    Already been done. Oh, and corrected for you.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,069
    edited October 20
    Omnium said:

    CJohn said:

    More than another national icon, Shakespeare is a towering dramatic genius, who is best honoured by attending his plays.

    None of you have the slightest idea whether Starmer likes, loves, is indifferent to Shakespeare, or thinks he's "over-rated".

    This is a total non-story.

    RHunt will/would surely make similar points.
    It is all too easy to mispronounce RHunt’s name.
  • CJohnCJohn Posts: 4

    CJohn said:

    More than another national icon, Shakespeare is a towering dramatic genius, who is best honoured by attending his plays.

    None of you have the slightest idea whether Starmer likes, loves, is indifferent to Shakespeare, or thinks he's "over-rated".

    This is a total non-story.

    And read his sonnets. Or listen to Judy Dench:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_X1dbO-quI

    Think he's a greater playwright than poet.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,615
    edited October 20

    FF43 said:

    I would say Keir Starmer does appear to have more interest in the arts than most recent politicians. And FWIW the paintings he has removed are not very good ones in my inexpert opinion, leaving aside their subjects.

    He is a philistine lacking in character.. wooden. ...
    The only art he seems into is that Amrican singer people go mad about... it's a form of hysteria alin to the Beatles in he 60s.

    Yup ...

    https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/sir-keir-starmer-flute-recorder-guildhall-scholar/

    Well he acts like a philistine now.... what he did before is irrelevant now.

    It's what he does now that matters.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,775

    Omnium said:

    CJohn said:

    More than another national icon, Shakespeare is a towering dramatic genius, who is best honoured by attending his plays.

    None of you have the slightest idea whether Starmer likes, loves, is indifferent to Shakespeare, or thinks he's "over-rated".

    This is a total non-story.

    RHunt will/would surely make similar points.
    It is all too easy to mispronounce RHunt’s name.
    Just thank goodness his first name isn't Mike.

    Ref; Porky's for older viewers. "Has anyone seen etc".
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,590

    SKSDS is indeed a serious affliction.

    One sends one’s thoughts and prayers to the PB Tories who remain scarred by CURRYGATE, and now have to face this.

    Ah - currygate. What do you think about currygate!? Bojo treating his staff to a party in Downing St - wine in suitcases.. or Man of the people Kier Starmer having a curry? If you told me he'd never shared a curry with his colleagues ever since I'd not be at all surprised.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,590

    Omnium said:

    CJohn said:

    More than another national icon, Shakespeare is a towering dramatic genius, who is best honoured by attending his plays.

    None of you have the slightest idea whether Starmer likes, loves, is indifferent to Shakespeare, or thinks he's "over-rated".

    This is a total non-story.

    RHunt will/would surely make similar points.
    It is all too easy to mispronounce RHunt’s name.
    Sadly Cohones won't stick around long enough for any fun there either.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,775
    Omnium said:

    SKSDS is indeed a serious affliction.

    One sends one’s thoughts and prayers to the PB Tories who remain scarred by CURRYGATE, and now have to face this.

    Ah - currygate. What do you think about currygate!? Bojo treating his staff to a party in Downing St - wine in suitcases.. or Man of the people Kier Starmer having a curry? If you told me he'd never shared a curry with his colleagues ever since I'd not be at all surprised.
    I bet he has loads of people around after he knocks off for the weekend at 5 pm.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,069

    Omnium said:

    CJohn said:

    More than another national icon, Shakespeare is a towering dramatic genius, who is best honoured by attending his plays.

    None of you have the slightest idea whether Starmer likes, loves, is indifferent to Shakespeare, or thinks he's "over-rated".

    This is a total non-story.

    RHunt will/would surely make similar points.
    It is all too easy to mispronounce RHunt’s name.
    Just thank goodness his first name isn't Mike.

    Ref; Porky's for older viewers. "Has anyone seen etc".
    Indeed. One wonders what the R stands for?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,069

    FF43 said:

    I would say Keir Starmer does appear to have more interest in the arts than most recent politicians. And FWIW the paintings he has removed are not very good ones in my inexpert opinion, leaving aside their subjects.

    He is a philistine lacking in character.. wooden. ...
    The only art he seems into is that Amrican singer people go mad about... it's a form of hysteria alin to the Beatles in he 60s.

    Yup ...

    https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/sir-keir-starmer-flute-recorder-guildhall-scholar/

    Well he acts like a philistine now.... what he did before is irrelevant now.

    It's what he does now that matters.
    LOL
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,069
    Is Rivals any good?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,984
    edited October 20

    CJohn said:

    More than another national icon, Shakespeare is a towering dramatic genius, who is best honoured by attending his plays.

    None of you have the slightest idea whether Starmer likes, loves, is indifferent to Shakespeare, or thinks he's "over-rated".

    This is a total non-story.

    And read his sonnets. Or listen to Judy Dench:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_X1dbO-quI

    Did you see the worst ever version of the death of Julius Caesar, in the recent Rebel Moon film? I didn't watch it, but a friend sent me a clip.

    The fake beards... the string quartet... the cheese.... the ham....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,775

    Is Rivals any good?

    Don't tell me he's taken down the portrait of Jilly Cooper!
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,566

    Is Rivals any good?

    Romping good fun.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,775
    CJohn said:

    CJohn said:

    More than another national icon, Shakespeare is a towering dramatic genius, who is best honoured by attending his plays.

    None of you have the slightest idea whether Starmer likes, loves, is indifferent to Shakespeare, or thinks he's "over-rated".

    This is a total non-story.

    And read his sonnets. Or listen to Judy Dench:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_X1dbO-quI

    Think he's a greater playwright than poet.
    Who? Starmer.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,590
    edited October 20

    CJohn said:

    More than another national icon, Shakespeare is a towering dramatic genius, who is best honoured by attending his plays.

    None of you have the slightest idea whether Starmer likes, loves, is indifferent to Shakespeare, or thinks he's "over-rated".

    This is a total non-story.

    And read his sonnets. Or listen to Judy Dench:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_X1dbO-quI

    Did you see the worst ever version of the death of Julius Caesar, in the recent Rebel Moon film? I didn't watch it, but a friend sent me a clip.

    The fake beards... the string quartet... the cheese.... the ham....
    Yes, but we know how you deported yourself, what was it you didn't like about the film?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,124
    Turns out there is a Shakespeare hanging in Downing Street, so we can all relax. Starmer wins again.




    https://artcollection.dcms.gov.uk/artwork/7264/
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,566
    Is anyone here smart enough to infer from
    this Intel leak vaguely what the Israelis are planning? My gut is that the long period of time between the Iranian strikes and the retaliation means it will be a significant operation.

    The drone attempt on Bibi this weekend also gives him the air cover domestically and internationally to hit harder.

    Is he waiting for 6th Nov? Or the week prior?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,069

    Is Rivals any good?

    Don't tell me he's taken down the portrait of Jilly Cooper!
    moonshine said:

    Is Rivals any good?

    Romping good fun.
    Cheers. I might subscribe. The novel was great.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,069

    Is Rivals any good?

    Don't tell me he's taken down the portrait of Jilly Cooper!
    Lady Vic would make a great Jilly Cooper character. At least, the media portrayal of her.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,984

    Is Rivals any good?

    The Sheridan play? Awesome, if you get a good staging.

    If you can find it, by the way, https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0301142/ is magnificent.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,037
    moonshine said:

    Is anyone here smart enough to infer from
    this Intel leak vaguely what the Israelis are planning? My gut is that the long period of time between the Iranian strikes and the retaliation means it will be a significant operation.

    The drone attempt on Bibi this weekend also gives him the air cover domestically and internationally to hit harder.

    Is he waiting for 6th Nov? Or the week prior?

    Droning Benjamin Netanyahu's property seems very sophisticated for a group that couldn't hit a barn door till last week. There's a cynical part of me that wonders if it's a put up job.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,793
    Watched the first episode of Ludwig last night, starring David Mitchell. Pretty good. 8/10.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,686
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I would say Keir Starmer does appear to have more interest in the arts than most recent politicians. And FWIW the paintings he has removed are not very good ones in my inexpert opinion, leaving aside their subjects.

    He is a philistine lacking in character.. wooden. ...
    The only art he seems into is that Amrican singer people go mad about... it's a form of hysteria alin to the Beatles in he 60s.
    The funny thing about this painting is that it is a copy made by a sculptor of another more famous painting - he was working on a Shakespeare sculpture at the time - but he didn't know how to paint.
    Indeed. It's not why as I gather is part of a planned shifting around of the government art collection to do with its 125th anniversary.

    But if it were Starmer's decision it would be evidence of the opposite of Philistinism having replaced an inferior copy of another portrait (which is in the National Portrait Gallery) with a Paula Rego original.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,590
    moonshine said:

    Is anyone here smart enough to infer from
    this Intel leak vaguely what the Israelis are planning? My gut is that the long period of time between the Iranian strikes and the retaliation means it will be a significant operation.

    The drone attempt on Bibi this weekend also gives him the air cover domestically and internationally to hit harder.

    Is he waiting for 6th Nov? Or the week prior?

    I suspect the US have done a deal that provides the Israelis with intelligence on Hamas and Hezbollah in return for them not doing anything against Iran until after the Presidential election. (And part of that was moving the super-hot missile interception team in, so that Iran wouldn't play the shots)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,775
    Andy_JS said:

    Watched the first episode of Ludwig last night, starring David Mitchell. Pretty good. 8/10.

    Worth the licence fee alone, just for Anna Maxwell Martin.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,926

    Is Rivals any good?

    Don't tell me he's taken down the portrait of Jilly Cooper!
    Lady Vic would make a great Jilly Cooper character. At least, the media portrayal of her.
    Some say Starmer and Rayner are more Jackie Collins: The Bitch and The Stud.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,984
    Omnium said:

    CJohn said:

    More than another national icon, Shakespeare is a towering dramatic genius, who is best honoured by attending his plays.

    None of you have the slightest idea whether Starmer likes, loves, is indifferent to Shakespeare, or thinks he's "over-rated".

    This is a total non-story.

    And read his sonnets. Or listen to Judy Dench:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_X1dbO-quI

    Did you see the worst ever version of the death of Julius Caesar, in the recent Rebel Moon film? I didn't watch it, but a friend sent me a clip.

    The fake beards... the string quartet... the cheese.... the ham....
    Yes, but we know how you deported yourself, what was it you didn't like about the film?
    I saw part of the first one.


  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,775

    Is Rivals any good?

    Don't tell me he's taken down the portrait of Jilly Cooper!
    Lady Vic would make a great Jilly Cooper character. At least, the media portrayal of her.
    Some say Starmer and Rayner are more Jackie Collins: The Bitch and The Stud.
    Have you got your final sentence in sequential order?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,566

    Is Rivals any good?

    Don't tell me he's taken down the portrait of Jilly Cooper!
    moonshine said:

    Is Rivals any good?

    Romping good fun.
    Cheers. I might subscribe. The novel was great.
    Jilly C was before my time but the show has a great soundtrack and cast, moves things along slickly and is the right side of the saucy / sleazy line.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,775

    True


    It took a moment, but I got there in the end.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,566

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone here smart enough to infer from
    this Intel leak vaguely what the Israelis are planning? My gut is that the long period of time between the Iranian strikes and the retaliation means it will be a significant operation.

    The drone attempt on Bibi this weekend also gives him the air cover domestically and internationally to hit harder.

    Is he waiting for 6th Nov? Or the week prior?

    Droning Benjamin Netanyahu's property seems very sophisticated for a group that couldn't hit a barn door till last week. There's a cynical part of me that wonders if it's a put up job.
    I would not suggest that the Israelis fired an Iranian made drone at bibi’s gaffe. But it’s not implausible that they declined to shoot it down.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,793
    edited October 20
    Andy_JS said:

    Amazing results from British Columbia last night where the overall result has come down to about 90 votes in two constituencies.

    https://bc.ctvnews.ca/bc-election-2024

    All the results on one page.

    https://electionsbcenr.blob.core.windows.net/electionsbcenr/Results_7097_GE-2024-10-19_Candidate.html

    Election night show.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYOumDrt4Rw
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,082
    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    You're all reading too much in to the Telegraph bullshit.

    Every time we have a change of PM/government the Downing Street pictures get changed, it is down to personal preference, Starmer isn't the first PM to do this.

    IIRC Thatcher took down a portrait of Attlee.

    One portrait might be regarded as a misfortune, two looks like carelessness, three or four?

    Looks like the man has a real problem with our history.
    After thirteen years of a Labour government Dave removed more, this is just that.
    Shakespeare is a weird one to get rid of though, he's consistently ranked as one of the truly great Britons alongside Newton, Churchill etc... and he hasn't exactly got anything political about him. Starmer just seems to be intimidated by greatness, whether that's Churchill, Maggie or now Bill.

    It speaks to a personality type that is inherently insecure and unable to stand being questioned or compared negatively with people who achieved stuff other than letting Mohammed Al Fayed off the hook. It also aligns very closely with what Rosie Duffield said about his personality and being unable to stand anyone who disagreed with him. Here are three Britons who will be held in the pantheon of greatness and that clearly makes him feel small so removing them and replacing them with nonsense modern art does show lack of character.
    But Downing Street said the changes to the display were “long planned, since before the election, and timed to mark 125 years of the Government Art Collection”.
    It insults our intelligence to think that we should believe that.

    You don't either.
    TSE is right on this.

    This is just flapping by the unhinged, because they have nothing sensible to say. They have reached the base of the stack of barrels.
    I suspect this is mostly a non-story; No 10 is putting up different pictures from its enormous collection, and Starmer doesn't like working in rooms full of portraits. Which is fair enough.

    But, if the plan was to inject this story into the national bloodstream to a) make the right froth and look like nutters and b) distract people from actual stuff going on, then job done.
    I think it's rope-a-dope. The TeleSunMailExGuidoSpeccy monster is punching itself out and there'll be nothing left for the budget.
    Oh trust me, there'll be plenty left for the Budget!
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,566
    Omnium said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone here smart enough to infer from
    this Intel leak vaguely what the Israelis are planning? My gut is that the long period of time between the Iranian strikes and the retaliation means it will be a significant operation.

    The drone attempt on Bibi this weekend also gives him the air cover domestically and internationally to hit harder.

    Is he waiting for 6th Nov? Or the week prior?

    I suspect the US have done a deal that provides the Israelis with intelligence on Hamas and Hezbollah in return for them not doing anything against Iran until after the Presidential election. (And part of that was moving the super-hot missile interception team in, so that Iran wouldn't play the shots)
    Possibly. But it seems like part of any deal was a block on hitting energy or nuclear assets too. Given Iran barely has an air force, for a significant attack it really only leaves missile (& drone) launch and production capability. Unless they’re going for the head of the hydra…
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,466

    FF43 said:

    I would say Keir Starmer does appear to have more interest in the arts than most recent politicians. And FWIW the paintings he has removed are not very good ones in my inexpert opinion, leaving aside their subjects.

    He is a philistine lacking in character.. wooden. ...
    The only art he seems into is that Amrican singer people go mad about... it's a form of hysteria alin to the Beatles in he 60s.

    Yup ...

    https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/sir-keir-starmer-flute-recorder-guildhall-scholar/

    Well he acts like a philistine now.... what he did before is irrelevant now.

    It's what he does now that matters.

    Not wanting a dodgy painting of Shakespeare looking over you as you work is not philistinism.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,984

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone here smart enough to infer from
    this Intel leak vaguely what the Israelis are planning? My gut is that the long period of time between the Iranian strikes and the retaliation means it will be a significant operation.

    The drone attempt on Bibi this weekend also gives him the air cover domestically and internationally to hit harder.

    Is he waiting for 6th Nov? Or the week prior?

    Droning Benjamin Netanyahu's property seems very sophisticated for a group that couldn't hit a barn door till last week. There's a cynical part of me that wonders if it's a put up job.
    Why so?

    1) His residence is public knowledge in Isreal and elsewhere.
    2) Buy a drone of some carrying capacity - you can buy one that will carry a full SLR and a big lens for miles on Amazon.
    3) Program it to fly in to location X, using onboard navigation. GPS will probably be jammed locally.

    You can upgrade the navigation - either by using terrain recognition or an upgraded hobby inertial system.

    There has been a massive interest in this because of the Ukraine war - lots of open software mods to get round GPS jamming problems.

    The only surprise is that this doesn't happen more often.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,069

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    You're all reading too much in to the Telegraph bullshit.

    Every time we have a change of PM/government the Downing Street pictures get changed, it is down to personal preference, Starmer isn't the first PM to do this.

    IIRC Thatcher took down a portrait of Attlee.

    One portrait might be regarded as a misfortune, two looks like carelessness, three or four?

    Looks like the man has a real problem with our history.
    After thirteen years of a Labour government Dave removed more, this is just that.
    Shakespeare is a weird one to get rid of though, he's consistently ranked as one of the truly great Britons alongside Newton, Churchill etc... and he hasn't exactly got anything political about him. Starmer just seems to be intimidated by greatness, whether that's Churchill, Maggie or now Bill.

    It speaks to a personality type that is inherently insecure and unable to stand being questioned or compared negatively with people who achieved stuff other than letting Mohammed Al Fayed off the hook. It also aligns very closely with what Rosie Duffield said about his personality and being unable to stand anyone who disagreed with him. Here are three Britons who will be held in the pantheon of greatness and that clearly makes him feel small so removing them and replacing them with nonsense modern art does show lack of character.
    But Downing Street said the changes to the display were “long planned, since before the election, and timed to mark 125 years of the Government Art Collection”.
    It insults our intelligence to think that we should believe that.

    You don't either.
    TSE is right on this.

    This is just flapping by the unhinged, because they have nothing sensible to say. They have reached the base of the stack of barrels.
    I suspect this is mostly a non-story; No 10 is putting up different pictures from its enormous collection, and Starmer doesn't like working in rooms full of portraits. Which is fair enough.

    But, if the plan was to inject this story into the national bloodstream to a) make the right froth and look like nutters and b) distract people from actual stuff going on, then job done.
    I think it's rope-a-dope. The TeleSunMailExGuidoSpeccy monster is punching itself out and there'll be nothing left for the budget.
    Oh trust me, there'll be plenty left for the Budget!
    The crying of wolf from the Trashygraph has been shrill to the point of deafening.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,413
    Post office to be mutualised?

    https://stocks.apple.com/AfwUnnrJNTVW7tVcEChTJiQ

    Sorry for dodgy Apple News link - hope it works.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,415
    BC provincial ridings where third parties MAY have affected the outcome

    Conservative Party of BC over BC New Democratic Party = 8

    > Columbia River - Revelstoke (Southern Interior
    Con = 48.1%, NDP = 44.1%, Green = 7.8%

    > Courtenay-Comox (Vancouver Island)
    Con = 39.0%, NDP = 38.3%, Green = 20.3%, Ind(2) = 1.9%

    > Kamloops Centre (Southern Interior)
    Con = 49.0%, NDP = 40.8%, Green = 10.3%

    > Langley-Willowbrook (Fraser Valley)
    Con = 48.5%, NDP = 45.1%, Green = 7.4%

    > Maple Ridge East (Fraser Valley)
    Con = 47.5%, NDP = 46.2%, Green = 6.3%

    > North Island (Vancouver Island)
    Con = 47.2%, NDP = 44.9%, Green = 7.9%

    > Surrey-Cloverdale (Suburban Vancouver)
    Con = 48.6%, NDP = 45.3%, Green = 5.4%, BC Freedom Party = 0.7%

    > Surrey-Guildford (Suburban Vancouver)
    Con = 47.1%, NDP = 46.6%, Green = 4.3%, Ind = 2.0%

    NDP over Con = 2

    > Richmond-Steveston (Suburban Vancouver)
    NDP = 44.2%, Con = 42.3%, Ind (former BC Lib) = 10.1%, Green =3.4%

    > Vernon-Lumby (Southern Interior)
    NDP = 42.5%, Con = 41.1%, Unaffiliated (center-right local mayor) = 15.5%, Lib = 1.0%

    https://electionsbcenr.blob.core.windows.net/electionsbcenr/Results_7097_GE-2024-10-19_Candidate.html
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,590
    moonshine said:

    Omnium said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone here smart enough to infer from
    this Intel leak vaguely what the Israelis are planning? My gut is that the long period of time between the Iranian strikes and the retaliation means it will be a significant operation.

    The drone attempt on Bibi this weekend also gives him the air cover domestically and internationally to hit harder.

    Is he waiting for 6th Nov? Or the week prior?

    I suspect the US have done a deal that provides the Israelis with intelligence on Hamas and Hezbollah in return for them not doing anything against Iran until after the Presidential election. (And part of that was moving the super-hot missile interception team in, so that Iran wouldn't play the shots)
    Possibly. But it seems like part of any deal was a block on hitting energy or nuclear assets too. Given Iran barely has an air force, for a significant attack it really only leaves missile (& drone) launch and production capability. Unless they’re going for the head of the hydra…
    I don't think that a first strike on Moscow is a realistic option.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,984

    I've heard other portraits are due to come down too...



    • Horatio Nelson: he’s been put up on a pedestal – literally – for fighting colonial wars. The guy is practically the poster boy for imperialism. Yes, he won at Trafalgar, but at what cost? Dominating other nations under the guise of "national pride"? He’s the embodiment of old-school, white-male-dominated militarism, and was outspoken in his support for the slave trade, which, let’s be real, has no place in the more compassionate, decolonised Britain we’re building today. Also, why all the statues? Can’t we just treat him with a quick TikTok putdown instead? Beast.

    • Florence Nightingale: yes, the ‘Lady with the Lamp’ – but how many lamps did she carry for colonialism? Nightingale’s work in the Crimea was part of a military-industrial complex that propped up British imperialism, and we can't overlook the structural racism of her era. Also, let’s not ignore that her "heroic" image overshadows other nurses, especially those from the Global South, who were left out of the narrative. This isn’t about erasing history – it's about correcting the glaring gaps in it.

    • Isaac Newton: ah, the “genius” who discovered gravity – like it wasn’t there all along. But have we considered the class implications of a man who spent his entire life sitting under trees and developing theories in a Cambridge college? It reeks of privilege. How many working-class people had the luxury of pondering the universe while picking apples? And that’s before we even get into his work for the Royal Mint, helping to prop up the economic system that kept wealth concentrated in the hands of the elite.

    • Charles Darwin: Darwin? He’s often held up as a scientific hero, but let’s talk about the social Darwinism his theories inspired. The very idea that some species, or worse, some people, are "naturally" superior to others? That’s been used to justify colonialism, capitalism, and eugenics. Plus, why was he exploring far-off islands anyway? Can’t we celebrate local biodiversity? Surely we’ve got enough pigeons and badgers to study here without disrupting vulnerable ecosystems abroad.

    • The Duke of Wellington: Beat Napoleon, did he? But wasn’t he just another aristocrat fighting wars to maintain the class status quo? Wellington fought for an outdated, hierarchical system that kept the rich rich and the poor poor. Sure, he might have kept Britain free from French dominance, but he wasn’t exactly advocating for universal suffrage, was he? The Battle of Waterloo? Honestly, it's just glorified warmongering. In a modern context, he’d probably be defending the House of Lords or complaining about wind farms ruining his estate views. Good job we're kicking his descendants out. About bloody time.

    I recall a comic moment. Think it was Paxman. Someone was banging on about the symbolism of putting a statue of a disabled person on the spare plinth in Trafalgar square.

    When they claimed this was the first statue of a disabled person in public, Paxman (I think it was him) drawled back something on the lines of "What about the chap on the column in the middle of the square?"

    Incidentally, Wellington fought a duel, because he was in favour of Catholic Emancipation. His moral victory at that duel caused opposition to the bill to collapse in the Lords.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,069

    I've heard other portraits are due to come down too...



    • Horatio Nelson: he’s been put up on a pedestal – literally – for fighting colonial wars. The guy is practically the poster boy for imperialism. Yes, he won at Trafalgar, but at what cost? Dominating other nations under the guise of "national pride"? He’s the embodiment of old-school, white-male-dominated militarism, and was outspoken in his support for the slave trade, which, let’s be real, has no place in the more compassionate, decolonised Britain we’re building today. Also, why all the statues? Can’t we just treat him with a quick TikTok putdown instead? Beast.

    • Florence Nightingale: yes, the ‘Lady with the Lamp’ – but how many lamps did she carry for colonialism? Nightingale’s work in the Crimea was part of a military-industrial complex that propped up British imperialism, and we can't overlook the structural racism of her era. Also, let’s not ignore that her "heroic" image overshadows other nurses, especially those from the Global South, who were left out of the narrative. This isn’t about erasing history – it's about correcting the glaring gaps in it.

    • Isaac Newton: ah, the “genius” who discovered gravity – like it wasn’t there all along. But have we considered the class implications of a man who spent his entire life sitting under trees and developing theories in a Cambridge college? It reeks of privilege. How many working-class people had the luxury of pondering the universe while picking apples? And that’s before we even get into his work for the Royal Mint, helping to prop up the economic system that kept wealth concentrated in the hands of the elite.

    • Charles Darwin: Darwin? He’s often held up as a scientific hero, but let’s talk about the social Darwinism his theories inspired. The very idea that some species, or worse, some people, are "naturally" superior to others? That’s been used to justify colonialism, capitalism, and eugenics. Plus, why was he exploring far-off islands anyway? Can’t we celebrate local biodiversity? Surely we’ve got enough pigeons and badgers to study here without disrupting vulnerable ecosystems abroad.

    • The Duke of Wellington: Beat Napoleon, did he? But wasn’t he just another aristocrat fighting wars to maintain the class status quo? Wellington fought for an outdated, hierarchical system that kept the rich rich and the poor poor. Sure, he might have kept Britain free from French dominance, but he wasn’t exactly advocating for universal suffrage, was he? The Battle of Waterloo? Honestly, it's just glorified warmongering. In a modern context, he’d probably be defending the House of Lords or complaining about wind farms ruining his estate views. Good job we're kicking his descendants out. About bloody time.

    Have a cup of tea. Curl up on the sofa with Mrs Royale. Relax.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,926
    https://x.com/bbcnews/status/1847962645820780849

    Should we drop ethnic minority for global majority?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,474

    FF43 said:

    I would say Keir Starmer does appear to have more interest in the arts than most recent politicians. And FWIW the paintings he has removed are not very good ones in my inexpert opinion, leaving aside their subjects.

    He is a philistine lacking in character.. wooden. ...
    The only art he seems into is that Amrican singer people go mad about... it's a form of hysteria alin to the Beatles in he 60s.

    Yup ...

    https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/sir-keir-starmer-flute-recorder-guildhall-scholar/

    Well he acts like a philistine now.... what he did before is irrelevant now.

    It's what he does now that matters.

    Not wanting a dodgy painting of Shakespeare looking over you as you work is not philistinism.

    Quite right.

    Shit painting and old Bill was a bit of a wanker anyway.

    Tory propaganda in tights.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,474

    True


    But would you get de Kock out?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,984
    carnforth said:

    Post office to be mutualised?

    https://stocks.apple.com/AfwUnnrJNTVW7tVcEChTJiQ

    Sorry for dodgy Apple News link - hope it works.

    Stupid idea.

    Transfer the entire post office to the ownership of the SPMs convicted (or immediate heirs). Share ownership to be based on the amount of time they spent in prison.

    This sorts out compensation. Plus, imagine the fun of the internal reorganisation. And the uses the Post Office prosecution setup could be put to....
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,637

    I've heard other portraits are due to come down too...



    • Horatio Nelson: he’s been put up on a pedestal – literally – for fighting colonial wars. The guy is practically the poster boy for imperialism. Yes, he won at Trafalgar, but at what cost? Dominating other nations under the guise of "national pride"? He’s the embodiment of old-school, white-male-dominated militarism, and was outspoken in his support for the slave trade, which, let’s be real, has no place in the more compassionate, decolonised Britain we’re building today. Also, why all the statues? Can’t we just treat him with a quick TikTok putdown instead? Beast.

    • Florence Nightingale: yes, the ‘Lady with the Lamp’ – but how many lamps did she carry for colonialism? Nightingale’s work in the Crimea was part of a military-industrial complex that propped up British imperialism, and we can't overlook the structural racism of her era. Also, let’s not ignore that her "heroic" image overshadows other nurses, especially those from the Global South, who were left out of the narrative. This isn’t about erasing history – it's about correcting the glaring gaps in it.

    • Isaac Newton: ah, the “genius” who discovered gravity – like it wasn’t there all along. But have we considered the class implications of a man who spent his entire life sitting under trees and developing theories in a Cambridge college? It reeks of privilege. How many working-class people had the luxury of pondering the universe while picking apples? And that’s before we even get into his work for the Royal Mint, helping to prop up the economic system that kept wealth concentrated in the hands of the elite.

    • Charles Darwin: Darwin? He’s often held up as a scientific hero, but let’s talk about the social Darwinism his theories inspired. The very idea that some species, or worse, some people, are "naturally" superior to others? That’s been used to justify colonialism, capitalism, and eugenics. Plus, why was he exploring far-off islands anyway? Can’t we celebrate local biodiversity? Surely we’ve got enough pigeons and badgers to study here without disrupting vulnerable ecosystems abroad.

    • The Duke of Wellington: Beat Napoleon, did he? But wasn’t he just another aristocrat fighting wars to maintain the class status quo? Wellington fought for an outdated, hierarchical system that kept the rich rich and the poor poor. Sure, he might have kept Britain free from French dominance, but he wasn’t exactly advocating for universal suffrage, was he? The Battle of Waterloo? Honestly, it's just glorified warmongering. In a modern context, he’d probably be defending the House of Lords or complaining about wind farms ruining his estate views. Good job we're kicking his descendants out. About bloody time.

    Have a cup of tea. Curl up on the sofa with Mrs Royale. Relax.
    As the great man said, the right is getting better at comedy and it’s making lefties nervous.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,415
    Andy_JS said:

    Amazing results from British Columbia last night where the overall result has come down to about 90 votes in two constituencies.

    https://bc.ctvnews.ca/bc-election-2024

    What is precise source for your statement that overall BC 2024 results "has come down to about 90 votes in two constituencies"?

    Because I think that (based on official published numbers) that it's more like 125 votes in 2 ridings, namely San Juan - Malahat (on Vancover Island) and Surrey - Guildford (Suburban Vancouver)

    IF the Conservative candidate manages to squeek by the Dipper in Juan da Fuca - Malahat, then you can add it to list of ridings where Green vote was decisive; current situation now

    > Juan da Fuca - Malahat
    NDP = 38.5%, Con = 38.4%, Green = 23.0%
    note that as of now, NDP leading by +23 votes

    https://electionsbcenr.blob.core.windows.net/electionsbcenr/Results_7097_GE-2024-10-19_Candidate.html
  • True


    But would you get de Kock out?
    This is how I get into trouble.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,904

    I've heard other portraits are due to come down too...



    • Horatio Nelson: he’s been put up on a pedestal – literally – for fighting colonial wars. The guy is practically the poster boy for imperialism. Yes, he won at Trafalgar, but at what cost? Dominating other nations under the guise of "national pride"? He’s the embodiment of old-school, white-male-dominated militarism, and was outspoken in his support for the slave trade, which, let’s be real, has no place in the more compassionate, decolonised Britain we’re building today. Also, why all the statues? Can’t we just treat him with a quick TikTok putdown instead? Beast.

    • Florence Nightingale: yes, the ‘Lady with the Lamp’ – but how many lamps did she carry for colonialism? Nightingale’s work in the Crimea was part of a military-industrial complex that propped up British imperialism, and we can't overlook the structural racism of her era. Also, let’s not ignore that her "heroic" image overshadows other nurses, especially those from the Global South, who were left out of the narrative. This isn’t about erasing history – it's about correcting the glaring gaps in it.

    • Isaac Newton: ah, the “genius” who discovered gravity – like it wasn’t there all along. But have we considered the class implications of a man who spent his entire life sitting under trees and developing theories in a Cambridge college? It reeks of privilege. How many working-class people had the luxury of pondering the universe while picking apples? And that’s before we even get into his work for the Royal Mint, helping to prop up the economic system that kept wealth concentrated in the hands of the elite.

    • Charles Darwin: Darwin? He’s often held up as a scientific hero, but let’s talk about the social Darwinism his theories inspired. The very idea that some species, or worse, some people, are "naturally" superior to others? That’s been used to justify colonialism, capitalism, and eugenics. Plus, why was he exploring far-off islands anyway? Can’t we celebrate local biodiversity? Surely we’ve got enough pigeons and badgers to study here without disrupting vulnerable ecosystems abroad.

    • The Duke of Wellington: Beat Napoleon, did he? But wasn’t he just another aristocrat fighting wars to maintain the class status quo? Wellington fought for an outdated, hierarchical system that kept the rich rich and the poor poor. Sure, he might have kept Britain free from French dominance, but he wasn’t exactly advocating for universal suffrage, was he? The Battle of Waterloo? Honestly, it's just glorified warmongering. In a modern context, he’d probably be defending the House of Lords or complaining about wind farms ruining his estate views. Good job we're kicking his descendants out. About bloody time.

    A genuine LOL from me here.

    Princess Diana: obviously part of the hereditary system even before she married a prominent member of the monarchy. Spent lots of time on jollies around the world (better than the ones I get to go on!), and her campaigns on AIDS and landmines outshone the contributions of more working-class people. A lady with every advantage in life, her only redeeming feature was going out with an ethnic minority late in her life.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,328
    kjh said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I don't think it's a good idea to put everything online. I'd be happier if my medical records stayed on a paper record in a filing cabinet in the local GP surgery.

    All your personal information is already online.
    Or not. When my father was in hospital, recently, they tried hiding the bloodwork - it wasn’t entered into the system. Then the family couldn’t see it - patient confidentiality. Despite the patient actually asking for the data….

    When they finally gave it to us - even I could see issues. Classic dehydration, for a start.
    Well I nearly came a cropper with the paperwork being both online and on paper. I reported it here at the time. It was this year that I had a really minor op (local anaesthetic, takes 5 min) for trigger finger. So they wheeled in the computer and paper file and confirmed my name and date of birth. All confirmed ok. Then mentioned I was allergic to penicillin to which I said no. They then said according to the notes I had a severe reaction when I had pancreatitis to which I said I have never had that. At which point I got up to look at the notes. The computer records were me, but the notes were for someone else with the same name, but a completely different date of birth. They had confirm stuff on the computer and then referred to the paper notes.

    I joked about the fact that it was a good job I was going to be awake as I didn't want to lose a leg. My name and date of birth were confirmed endlessly after that as per normal, but we managed to pass that test previously by using two sets of records that weren't the same.
    Which is precisely why we do the checks on identity so repetitively, recognising that errors will creep in, and computer systems are just as prone to these.
    Not totally convinced. No matter how many times they did the check it will agree with the computer system because it was correct, but if I hadn't picked up on the incorrect allergy (and that only happened by chance; if the other kjh had not been allergic to penicillin it would not have been picked up) then the wrong paperwork would have accompanied me. If the paperwork was never accessed it would not matter, but it was and might have been later to my detriment. Only if they checked the DOB on both systems each time would it have been picked up. Do they do that? They obviously didn't the first time.

    So repeatedly asking the name and DOB won't work if you have two differing systems and one is wrong and you don't check them both, which they didn't do the first time.

    It was obviously worrying to have the notes of a complete stranger mixed up with mine.

    My wife, who like you, is a Doctor was quite surprised it happened.
    When I was in for 3 weeks last year in Haematology the checks were very thorough. But as a Type I D the first lesson I learnt back in 2001 was to be an empowered patient (both words are important) and treat my clinicians as a team advising me what to do and cooperating with me managing my condition, not the other way round.

    The strongest ID checks I had last year were around blood transfusions, where there was a team of two nurses required to be present at each transfusion to cross-check each other. That is because getting it wrong can be *serious*.

    I can't remember what my blood group is, but iirc they said it's the one that lets me accept blood from anyone else, but not give it to anyone else. I think - I may misremember. That makes me like Japan's export policy in the 1970s/80s :smile: .
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,793
    5 states are now "even" with 538. MI, WI, PA, NC, NV.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/pennsylvania/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,904

    SKSDS is indeed a serious affliction.

    One sends one’s thoughts and prayers to the PB Tories who remain scarred by CURRYGATE, and now have to face this.

    Your guy is rapidly appearing to be a duffer. He's better than Johnson and Truss, but - as I think you keep on point out - he has a mahoosive majority, yet keeps on making pratfall after pratfall. Unforced errors abound in this government.

    As I've said before, we need to give them time to settle in. But the messes they've got themselves into are absolutely hilarious. The question is whether he, and his government, will learn from those messes.

    I hope he does, as the country needs some stability for a while.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,793
    "Nate Silver
    @NateSilver538

    Today's numbers. Starting to see some Trump leads in high-quality national polls, which is certainly not a great sign for Harris. Very close race, though."

    https://x.com/NateSilver538/status/1848059984799494402
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,984

    I've heard other portraits are due to come down too...



    • Horatio Nelson: he’s been put up on a pedestal – literally – for fighting colonial wars. The guy is practically the poster boy for imperialism. Yes, he won at Trafalgar, but at what cost? Dominating other nations under the guise of "national pride"? He’s the embodiment of old-school, white-male-dominated militarism, and was outspoken in his support for the slave trade, which, let’s be real, has no place in the more compassionate, decolonised Britain we’re building today. Also, why all the statues? Can’t we just treat him with a quick TikTok putdown instead? Beast.

    • Florence Nightingale: yes, the ‘Lady with the Lamp’ – but how many lamps did she carry for colonialism? Nightingale’s work in the Crimea was part of a military-industrial complex that propped up British imperialism, and we can't overlook the structural racism of her era. Also, let’s not ignore that her "heroic" image overshadows other nurses, especially those from the Global South, who were left out of the narrative. This isn’t about erasing history – it's about correcting the glaring gaps in it.

    • Isaac Newton: ah, the “genius” who discovered gravity – like it wasn’t there all along. But have we considered the class implications of a man who spent his entire life sitting under trees and developing theories in a Cambridge college? It reeks of privilege. How many working-class people had the luxury of pondering the universe while picking apples? And that’s before we even get into his work for the Royal Mint, helping to prop up the economic system that kept wealth concentrated in the hands of the elite.

    • Charles Darwin: Darwin? He’s often held up as a scientific hero, but let’s talk about the social Darwinism his theories inspired. The very idea that some species, or worse, some people, are "naturally" superior to others? That’s been used to justify colonialism, capitalism, and eugenics. Plus, why was he exploring far-off islands anyway? Can’t we celebrate local biodiversity? Surely we’ve got enough pigeons and badgers to study here without disrupting vulnerable ecosystems abroad.

    • The Duke of Wellington: Beat Napoleon, did he? But wasn’t he just another aristocrat fighting wars to maintain the class status quo? Wellington fought for an outdated, hierarchical system that kept the rich rich and the poor poor. Sure, he might have kept Britain free from French dominance, but he wasn’t exactly advocating for universal suffrage, was he? The Battle of Waterloo? Honestly, it's just glorified warmongering. In a modern context, he’d probably be defending the House of Lords or complaining about wind farms ruining his estate views. Good job we're kicking his descendants out. About bloody time.

    A genuine LOL from me here.

    Princess Diana: obviously part of the hereditary system even before she married a prominent member of the monarchy. Spent lots of time on jollies around the world (better than the ones I get to go on!), and her campaigns on AIDS and landmines outshone the contributions of more working-class people. A lady with every advantage in life, her only redeeming feature was going out with an ethnic minority late in her life.
    The famous ring was paid for by the Phoney Pharaoh.

    Who got his money by being bagman for a famous arms dealer. Famous for being the go-to guy for... landmines.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,793
    "White Britons dying at higher rate than ethnic minorities
    Drinking and smoking habits lower life expectancy of affluent group

    White people in Britain are dying at higher rates than ethnic minorities because of their drinking and smoking habits."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/10/20/white-britons-dying-higher-rate-ethnic-minorities/
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,415
    Andy, am also questioning your take that last night's BC election results were "amazing".

    Close, yes. But amazing, not really. Seeing as how results are in line with polling during the campaign, showing a slight lead by the end for NDP and it's incumbent premier.

    Who BTW (also FYI) also had an edge over this Conservative opponent, as best qualified to be premier.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,474
    Andy_JS said:

    "Nate Silver
    @NateSilver538

    Today's numbers. Starting to see some Trump leads in high-quality national polls, which is certainly not a great sign for Harris. Very close race, though."

    https://x.com/NateSilver538/status/1848059984799494402

    He's probably going to do it.

    Safe cities, secure borders and free speech etc. are a strong appeal to a Democrat ticket that just hasn't delivered in recent years.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,069

    SKSDS is indeed a serious affliction.

    One sends one’s thoughts and prayers to the PB Tories who remain scarred by CURRYGATE, and now have to face this.

    Your guy is rapidly appearing to be a duffer. He's better than Johnson and Truss, but - as I think you keep on point out - he has a mahoosive majority, yet keeps on making pratfall after pratfall. Unforced errors abound in this government.

    As I've said before, we need to give them time to settle in. But the messes they've got themselves into are absolutely hilarious. The question is whether he, and his government, will learn from those messes.

    I hope he does, as the country needs some stability for a while.
    LOL. What has he done now? Moved another painting?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,160

    rkrkrk said:

    Sorry guys but Shakespeare is overrated. It's a tragedy, we force schoolchildren to sit through so many of his plays. I think I was about 15 before I learnt there were other playwrights.

    Yeah, Shakespeare is a bit shit anyway, isn't he?
    I wouldn't go that far - but worthy of study above all other writers... nah.
    It's all personal taste I guess.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,308
    edited October 20

    I've heard other portraits are due to come down too...



    • Horatio Nelson: he’s been put up on a pedestal – literally – for fighting colonial wars. The guy is practically the poster boy for imperialism. Yes, he won at Trafalgar, but at what cost? Dominating other nations under the guise of "national pride"? He’s the embodiment of old-school, white-male-dominated militarism, and was outspoken in his support for the slave trade, which, let’s be real, has no place in the more compassionate, decolonised Britain we’re building today. Also, why all the statues? Can’t we just treat him with a quick TikTok putdown instead? Beast.

    • Florence Nightingale: yes, the ‘Lady with the Lamp’ – but how many lamps did she carry for colonialism? Nightingale’s work in the Crimea was part of a military-industrial complex that propped up British imperialism, and we can't overlook the structural racism of her era. Also, let’s not ignore that her "heroic" image overshadows other nurses, especially those from the Global South, who were left out of the narrative. This isn’t about erasing history – it's about correcting the glaring gaps in it.

    • Isaac Newton: ah, the “genius” who discovered gravity – like it wasn’t there all along. But have we considered the class implications of a man who spent his entire life sitting under trees and developing theories in a Cambridge college? It reeks of privilege. How many working-class people had the luxury of pondering the universe while picking apples? And that’s before we even get into his work for the Royal Mint, helping to prop up the economic system that kept wealth concentrated in the hands of the elite.

    • Charles Darwin: Darwin? He’s often held up as a scientific hero, but let’s talk about the social Darwinism his theories inspired. The very idea that some species, or worse, some people, are "naturally" superior to others? That’s been used to justify colonialism, capitalism, and eugenics. Plus, why was he exploring far-off islands anyway? Can’t we celebrate local biodiversity? Surely we’ve got enough pigeons and badgers to study here without disrupting vulnerable ecosystems abroad.

    • The Duke of Wellington: Beat Napoleon, did he? But wasn’t he just another aristocrat fighting wars to maintain the class status quo? Wellington fought for an outdated, hierarchical system that kept the rich rich and the poor poor. Sure, he might have kept Britain free from French dominance, but he wasn’t exactly advocating for universal suffrage, was he? The Battle of Waterloo? Honestly, it's just glorified warmongering. In a modern context, he’d probably be defending the House of Lords or complaining about wind farms ruining his estate views. Good job we're kicking his descendants out. About bloody time.

    Darwin fetishized the heck out Galapogossian heritage, a big no. And it was really a European coalition that beat Naploeon anyway, Wellington might as well have not been there.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,904
    Incidentally, I hope the election and referendum in Moldova go the way I hope.

    I started writing a piece on the situation there, but ran out of time.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/moldova-votes-election-eu-referendum-shadow-alleged-russian-meddling-2024-10-20/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,984
    kle4 said:

    I've heard other portraits are due to come down too...



    • Horatio Nelson: he’s been put up on a pedestal – literally – for fighting colonial wars. The guy is practically the poster boy for imperialism. Yes, he won at Trafalgar, but at what cost? Dominating other nations under the guise of "national pride"? He’s the embodiment of old-school, white-male-dominated militarism, and was outspoken in his support for the slave trade, which, let’s be real, has no place in the more compassionate, decolonised Britain we’re building today. Also, why all the statues? Can’t we just treat him with a quick TikTok putdown instead? Beast.

    • Florence Nightingale: yes, the ‘Lady with the Lamp’ – but how many lamps did she carry for colonialism? Nightingale’s work in the Crimea was part of a military-industrial complex that propped up British imperialism, and we can't overlook the structural racism of her era. Also, let’s not ignore that her "heroic" image overshadows other nurses, especially those from the Global South, who were left out of the narrative. This isn’t about erasing history – it's about correcting the glaring gaps in it.

    • Isaac Newton: ah, the “genius” who discovered gravity – like it wasn’t there all along. But have we considered the class implications of a man who spent his entire life sitting under trees and developing theories in a Cambridge college? It reeks of privilege. How many working-class people had the luxury of pondering the universe while picking apples? And that’s before we even get into his work for the Royal Mint, helping to prop up the economic system that kept wealth concentrated in the hands of the elite.

    • Charles Darwin: Darwin? He’s often held up as a scientific hero, but let’s talk about the social Darwinism his theories inspired. The very idea that some species, or worse, some people, are "naturally" superior to others? That’s been used to justify colonialism, capitalism, and eugenics. Plus, why was he exploring far-off islands anyway? Can’t we celebrate local biodiversity? Surely we’ve got enough pigeons and badgers to study here without disrupting vulnerable ecosystems abroad.

    • The Duke of Wellington: Beat Napoleon, did he? But wasn’t he just another aristocrat fighting wars to maintain the class status quo? Wellington fought for an outdated, hierarchical system that kept the rich rich and the poor poor. Sure, he might have kept Britain free from French dominance, but he wasn’t exactly advocating for universal suffrage, was he? The Battle of Waterloo? Honestly, it's just glorified warmongering. In a modern context, he’d probably be defending the House of Lords or complaining about wind farms ruining his estate views. Good job we're kicking his descendants out. About bloody time.

    Darwin fetishized the heck out Galapogossian heritage. And it was really a European coalition that beat Naploeon anyway, Wellington might as well have not been there.
    It took Wellington to deliver the decisive defeat.

    There was a reason that when Napoleon's return was announced at the conference, the Tsar turned to Wellington.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,069

    Andy_JS said:

    "Nate Silver
    @NateSilver538

    Today's numbers. Starting to see some Trump leads in high-quality national polls, which is certainly not a great sign for Harris. Very close race, though."

    https://x.com/NateSilver538/status/1848059984799494402

    He's probably going to do it.

    Safe cities, secure borders and free speech etc. are a strong appeal to a Democrat ticket that just hasn't delivered in recent years.
    That’s my view, as things stand. But, I might be being swayed by the Tipp tracker - which has staged a six-point swing since midweek!
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,160
    Andy_JS said:

    Watched the first episode of Ludwig last night, starring David Mitchell. Pretty good. 8/10.

    Have also started recently. Very enjoyable!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,904

    SKSDS is indeed a serious affliction.

    One sends one’s thoughts and prayers to the PB Tories who remain scarred by CURRYGATE, and now have to face this.

    Your guy is rapidly appearing to be a duffer. He's better than Johnson and Truss, but - as I think you keep on point out - he has a mahoosive majority, yet keeps on making pratfall after pratfall. Unforced errors abound in this government.

    As I've said before, we need to give them time to settle in. But the messes they've got themselves into are absolutely hilarious. The question is whether he, and his government, will learn from those messes.

    I hope he does, as the country needs some stability for a while.
    LOL. What has he done now? Moved another painting?
    You really need to keep up with the news, or check your memory. Do you think his government has got off to a faultless start?

    I wonder what SKS would have to do before you strongly criticise him.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,308
    edited October 20

    kle4 said:

    I've heard other portraits are due to come down too...



    • Horatio Nelson: he’s been put up on a pedestal – literally – for fighting colonial wars. The guy is practically the poster boy for imperialism. Yes, he won at Trafalgar, but at what cost? Dominating other nations under the guise of "national pride"? He’s the embodiment of old-school, white-male-dominated militarism, and was outspoken in his support for the slave trade, which, let’s be real, has no place in the more compassionate, decolonised Britain we’re building today. Also, why all the statues? Can’t we just treat him with a quick TikTok putdown instead? Beast.

    • Florence Nightingale: yes, the ‘Lady with the Lamp’ – but how many lamps did she carry for colonialism? Nightingale’s work in the Crimea was part of a military-industrial complex that propped up British imperialism, and we can't overlook the structural racism of her era. Also, let’s not ignore that her "heroic" image overshadows other nurses, especially those from the Global South, who were left out of the narrative. This isn’t about erasing history – it's about correcting the glaring gaps in it.

    • Isaac Newton: ah, the “genius” who discovered gravity – like it wasn’t there all along. But have we considered the class implications of a man who spent his entire life sitting under trees and developing theories in a Cambridge college? It reeks of privilege. How many working-class people had the luxury of pondering the universe while picking apples? And that’s before we even get into his work for the Royal Mint, helping to prop up the economic system that kept wealth concentrated in the hands of the elite.

    • Charles Darwin: Darwin? He’s often held up as a scientific hero, but let’s talk about the social Darwinism his theories inspired. The very idea that some species, or worse, some people, are "naturally" superior to others? That’s been used to justify colonialism, capitalism, and eugenics. Plus, why was he exploring far-off islands anyway? Can’t we celebrate local biodiversity? Surely we’ve got enough pigeons and badgers to study here without disrupting vulnerable ecosystems abroad.

    • The Duke of Wellington: Beat Napoleon, did he? But wasn’t he just another aristocrat fighting wars to maintain the class status quo? Wellington fought for an outdated, hierarchical system that kept the rich rich and the poor poor. Sure, he might have kept Britain free from French dominance, but he wasn’t exactly advocating for universal suffrage, was he? The Battle of Waterloo? Honestly, it's just glorified warmongering. In a modern context, he’d probably be defending the House of Lords or complaining about wind farms ruining his estate views. Good job we're kicking his descendants out. About bloody time.

    Darwin fetishized the heck out Galapogossian heritage. And it was really a European coalition that beat Naploeon anyway, Wellington might as well have not been there.
    It took Wellington to deliver the decisive defeat.

    There was a reason that when Napoleon's return was announced at the conference, the Tsar turned to Wellington.
    It was a joke, my dude. But one I have seen people online more or less seriously make trying to shatter 'myths' about Waterloo.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,082
    Andy_JS said:

    "Nate Silver
    @NateSilver538

    Today's numbers. Starting to see some Trump leads in high-quality national polls, which is certainly not a great sign for Harris. Very close race, though."

    https://x.com/NateSilver538/status/1848059984799494402

    Somewhat counter-intuitively, Harris's rise seems to shadow the fall in Kennedy. Nothing left to drain now?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,904
    Andy_JS said:

    Watched the first episode of Ludwig last night, starring David Mitchell. Pretty good. 8/10.

    I binge-watched it a week or so ago. It was a bit formulaic, especially at the start, but it did liven up. As ever with the BBC, the 'series' was far too short. We need 13 episodes, not 6.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,069
    edited October 20

    SKSDS is indeed a serious affliction.

    One sends one’s thoughts and prayers to the PB Tories who remain scarred by CURRYGATE, and now have to face this.

    Your guy is rapidly appearing to be a duffer. He's better than Johnson and Truss, but - as I think you keep on point out - he has a mahoosive majority, yet keeps on making pratfall after pratfall. Unforced errors abound in this government.

    As I've said before, we need to give them time to settle in. But the messes they've got themselves into are absolutely hilarious. The question is whether he, and his government, will learn from those messes.

    I hope he does, as the country needs some stability for a while.
    LOL. What has he done now? Moved another painting?
    You really need to keep up with the news, or check your memory. Do you think his government has got off to a faultless start?

    I wonder what SKS would have to do before you strongly criticise him.
    I am merely asking what is the latest rick on the Curry-Donkey-Swift continuum. I know it’s important. I just struggle to keep up.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,308

    Andy_JS said:

    Watched the first episode of Ludwig last night, starring David Mitchell. Pretty good. 8/10.

    I binge-watched it a week or so ago. It was a bit formulaic, especially at the start, but it did liven up. As ever with the BBC, the 'series' was far too short. We need 13 episodes, not 6.
    Korean shows on Netflix often have the opposite problem - there's often only one, but they might be 16-20 episodes long, and up to an hour and a half long, so it's like they are 32-40 long.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,984
    viewcode said:

    I've heard other portraits are due to come down too...



    • Horatio Nelson: he’s been put up on a pedestal – literally – for fighting colonial wars. The guy is practically the poster boy for imperialism. Yes, he won at Trafalgar, but at what cost? Dominating other nations under the guise of "national pride"? He’s the embodiment of old-school, white-male-dominated militarism, and was outspoken in his support for the slave trade, which, let’s be real, has no place in the more compassionate, decolonised Britain we’re building today. Also, why all the statues? Can’t we just treat him with a quick TikTok putdown instead? Beast.

    • Florence Nightingale: yes, the ‘Lady with the Lamp’ – but how many lamps did she carry for colonialism? Nightingale’s work in the Crimea was part of a military-industrial complex that propped up British imperialism, and we can't overlook the structural racism of her era. Also, let’s not ignore that her "heroic" image overshadows other nurses, especially those from the Global South, who were left out of the narrative. This isn’t about erasing history – it's about correcting the glaring gaps in it.

    • Isaac Newton: ah, the “genius” who discovered gravity – like it wasn’t there all along. But have we considered the class implications of a man who spent his entire life sitting under trees and developing theories in a Cambridge college? It reeks of privilege. How many working-class people had the luxury of pondering the universe while picking apples? And that’s before we even get into his work for the Royal Mint, helping to prop up the economic system that kept wealth concentrated in the hands of the elite.

    • Charles Darwin: Darwin? He’s often held up as a scientific hero, but let’s talk about the social Darwinism his theories inspired. The very idea that some species, or worse, some people, are "naturally" superior to others? That’s been used to justify colonialism, capitalism, and eugenics. Plus, why was he exploring far-off islands anyway? Can’t we celebrate local biodiversity? Surely we’ve got enough pigeons and badgers to study here without disrupting vulnerable ecosystems abroad.

    • The Duke of Wellington: Beat Napoleon, did he? But wasn’t he just another aristocrat fighting wars to maintain the class status quo? Wellington fought for an outdated, hierarchical system that kept the rich rich and the poor poor. Sure, he might have kept Britain free from French dominance, but he wasn’t exactly advocating for universal suffrage, was he? The Battle of Waterloo? Honestly, it's just glorified warmongering. In a modern context, he’d probably be defending the House of Lords or complaining about wind farms ruining his estate views. Good job we're kicking his descendants out. About bloody time.

    Florence Nightingale was famously also a statistician who invented the Nightingale Rose, a rather good graph design which nobody uses (imagine a bar chart rotating around a point)

    Isacc Newton once poked a knitting needle into his eye socket to study it.

    Darwin is my favorite example of the middle-class dilettante who can't settle down, hasn't got the balls or faith to become a farmer, soildier or priest but is instead paid by his helicopter parents to go round the world on an extended gap year. See also "Einstein fathered a child by his babymamma and was only good enoiugh to work in the post office"
    Wellington was a famous carpet knight, whose only interest was parties and playing the violin. Then his parents purchased a commission in the army for him....
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,069
    …..
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,768

    Andy_JS said:

    Watched the first episode of Ludwig last night, starring David Mitchell. Pretty good. 8/10.

    I binge-watched it a week or so ago. It was a bit formulaic, especially at the start, but it did liven up. As ever with the BBC, the 'series' was far too short. We need 13 episodes, not 6.
    Yes, I watched it a couple of weeks ago. I found it very entertaining. Obviously a vehicle for Mitchell and he fits the character really well.

    I've just finished series 2 of the Demon Hour with Raine and Capaldi. Really good. it's on Amazon Prime.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,308
    viewcode said:

    I've heard other portraits are due to come down too...



    • Horatio Nelson: he’s been put up on a pedestal – literally – for fighting colonial wars. The guy is practically the poster boy for imperialism. Yes, he won at Trafalgar, but at what cost? Dominating other nations under the guise of "national pride"? He’s the embodiment of old-school, white-male-dominated militarism, and was outspoken in his support for the slave trade, which, let’s be real, has no place in the more compassionate, decolonised Britain we’re building today. Also, why all the statues? Can’t we just treat him with a quick TikTok putdown instead? Beast.

    • Florence Nightingale: yes, the ‘Lady with the Lamp’ – but how many lamps did she carry for colonialism? Nightingale’s work in the Crimea was part of a military-industrial complex that propped up British imperialism, and we can't overlook the structural racism of her era. Also, let’s not ignore that her "heroic" image overshadows other nurses, especially those from the Global South, who were left out of the narrative. This isn’t about erasing history – it's about correcting the glaring gaps in it.

    • Isaac Newton: ah, the “genius” who discovered gravity – like it wasn’t there all along. But have we considered the class implications of a man who spent his entire life sitting under trees and developing theories in a Cambridge college? It reeks of privilege. How many working-class people had the luxury of pondering the universe while picking apples? And that’s before we even get into his work for the Royal Mint, helping to prop up the economic system that kept wealth concentrated in the hands of the elite.

    • Charles Darwin: Darwin? He’s often held up as a scientific hero, but let’s talk about the social Darwinism his theories inspired. The very idea that some species, or worse, some people, are "naturally" superior to others? That’s been used to justify colonialism, capitalism, and eugenics. Plus, why was he exploring far-off islands anyway? Can’t we celebrate local biodiversity? Surely we’ve got enough pigeons and badgers to study here without disrupting vulnerable ecosystems abroad.

    • The Duke of Wellington: Beat Napoleon, did he? But wasn’t he just another aristocrat fighting wars to maintain the class status quo? Wellington fought for an outdated, hierarchical system that kept the rich rich and the poor poor. Sure, he might have kept Britain free from French dominance, but he wasn’t exactly advocating for universal suffrage, was he? The Battle of Waterloo? Honestly, it's just glorified warmongering. In a modern context, he’d probably be defending the House of Lords or complaining about wind farms ruining his estate views. Good job we're kicking his descendants out. About bloody time.

    Florence Nightingale was famously also a statistician who invented the Nightingale Rose, a rather good graph design which nobody uses (imagine a bar chart rotating around a point)

    Isacc Newton once poked a knitting needle into his eye socket to study it.

    Darwin is my favorite example of the middle-class dilettante who can't settle down, hasn't got the balls or faith to become a farmer, soildier or priest but is instead paid by his helicopter parents to go round the world on an extended gap year. See also "Einstein fathered a child by his babymamma and was only good enoiugh to work in the post office"
    All those people who who used to obsessively study beetles or whatever in the 19th century are now probably making long video essays about their favourite tv show on youtube.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,904

    SKSDS is indeed a serious affliction.

    One sends one’s thoughts and prayers to the PB Tories who remain scarred by CURRYGATE, and now have to face this.

    Your guy is rapidly appearing to be a duffer. He's better than Johnson and Truss, but - as I think you keep on point out - he has a mahoosive majority, yet keeps on making pratfall after pratfall. Unforced errors abound in this government.

    As I've said before, we need to give them time to settle in. But the messes they've got themselves into are absolutely hilarious. The question is whether he, and his government, will learn from those messes.

    I hope he does, as the country needs some stability for a while.
    LOL. What has he done now? Moved another painting?
    You really need to keep up with the news, or check your memory. Do you think his government has got off to a faultless start?

    I wonder what SKS would have to do before you strongly criticise him.
    I am merely asking what is the latest rick on the Curry-Donkey-Swift continuum. I know it’s important. I just struggle to keep up.
    Your reply shows exactly why Labour may fail. No acknowledgement that they've made missteps; no understanding. In fact, no fucking clue.

    If the Conservatives weren't in such a hideous state (with few signs of recovery...) then Labour would be in real trouble.

    The country deserves better. I hope Labour improve.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,926
    Trump is doing a shift in a McDonalds in Pennsylvania.

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1848065650805334524
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