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Why Trump is (a bit) like Hamas – politicalbetting.com

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  • RHunt said:

    Then of course you have the likes of Musk onside spreading antisrmitic conspiracy theories such as this rally.

    didn’t take long before a Trump supporter shouted to Musk that George Soros is “evil”—to which Musk responded with a clear “Yeah.”

    He said Soros is “honestly misanthropic” and that “for someone who sort of claims to be doing good, but actually he is not. He is tearing down the fabric of society.¨

    https://x.com/VigilantFox/status/1847093406348025868

    But George Soros can be evil. Being jewish doesnt prevent you from being evil. Soros actively funds many organisations, he transfer 18 billion dollars to it in 2017. Many things I'm sure could be considered very worthy and many reprehensible to some.

    Just because someone is accuse of acting in a way that would be seen as stereotype/cliche/trope/meme doesnt mean he isnt.
    Oh, it is Saturday morning...

    Your post is really stupid. You give no examples of *why* he might be 'evil'; just saying that he might be. And of all the billionaires, why pick on him?
    I'm not picking on him. He and Gates probably get it equally. If Gates was jewish some would blame that on anti-semitism.
    Billy Boy. The guy who is going to control us all threw jabs. Well I never.
    Gates works (and criticism there of) go back way before Covid madness. Gates himself does tend to stay away from the directly political stuff. Some of his work combating malaria in the third world is genuinely impressive.
    No doubt. He is clever. Interesting person.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    RHunt said:

    Trump now the 8/11 fav for Pennsylvania and the 10/11 favourite for Michigan.

    Is that the polymarket betting ? Which is being flooded by dodgy money to big up Trumps chances.
  • RHunt said:

    We shouldnt be complacent.
    This is the blurb from Tommy Robinsons best selling book manifesto.

    For decades the political class have openly planned to replace the indigenous people of Europe and in Manifesto we focus on how they are doing this in the UK. To ensure no-one disturbs their plans the elite manufacture a mythical far-right, when in truth it is the elite 1% who run a Fascist system of state-control, censorship and discrimination. Whenever someone has publicly addressed what is going on, the ruling class set about to destroy that person. We show how the elitist 1% have openly manipulated democracy to subjugate the masses, their elitist discussions carried on in plain sight for over a century, while they distract the masses with unimportant nonsense. The 1% knowingly plan to bring about another global conflict and in the aftermath they will end up in control of the world's resources and financial systems: "you will own nothing and you will be happy"

    We also shouldnt get ourselves in a pap about about a man who when he actually last stood for election got 2% of the vote.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,915
    RHunt said:

    We shouldnt be complacent.
    This is the blurb from Tommy Robinsons best selling book manifesto.

    For decades the political class have openly planned to replace the indigenous people of Europe and in Manifesto we focus on how they are doing this in the UK. To ensure no-one disturbs their plans the elite manufacture a mythical far-right, when in truth it is the elite 1% who run a Fascist system of state-control, censorship and discrimination. Whenever someone has publicly addressed what is going on, the ruling class set about to destroy that person. We show how the elitist 1% have openly manipulated democracy to subjugate the masses, their elitist discussions carried on in plain sight for over a century, while they distract the masses with unimportant nonsense. The 1% knowingly plan to bring about another global conflict and in the aftermath they will end up in control of the world's resources and financial systems: "you will own nothing and you will be happy"

    Hello new Saturday morning weirdo poster.
  • Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    There's a fair amount of truth in this, and it certainly also applies to the over-confident Cameroonian Tories, as well as New Labour.

    But it's also a warning about the power of social media and cultural influences, because Biden is the first President in decades to begin and try and concretely address some of these issues, yet has received little recognition for this.
  • Polls. Just over half of the Americans eligible to vote do. It is now down to how many swing states? 3? Back to polling. What percentage of people lie to the pollsters about who they will vote for? If we knew the answer to that we could call this election. Too close to call etc is the same rhetoric we have heard time and time again. I do not buy that old chestnut.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,702
    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    Yes. Hence Brexit in 2016
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,242

    kinabalu said:

    RHunt said:

    kinabalu said:

    maxh said:

    kjh said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    I agree. I have asked the same question here several times. I don't understand it. I have read the replies to your post and none convince me so I am still stumped.

    The only rational explanation is 50% of Americans are stupid and that just can't be true.
    I'll have a go:

    (Tldr; not stupid, just applying their intelligence elsewhere)

    Politics just isn't that important to most people. People are busy, and choose to tune out a large proportion of the politics they hear in favour of more immediate, relevant (in their perception) concerns.

    When they do tune into politics most people don't engage their critical facilities nearly as much as they do, say, when choosing a school for their child or when choosing a flat to rent. In their perception choosing Trump or Harris just isn't as high stakes.

    Within that environment Trump garners more attention, and few have the time or intellectual energy to do the critical analysis to see through his nonsense. So he is superficially appealing, and most people don't get beyond the superficial.
    Yes. There are relatively high levels of ignorance stupidity and bigotry amongst his voters (no use pretending otherwise) but there is also plenty of what you describe here.
    But theres also gut feelings. Many Americans think female empowerment has gone too far and Trump speaks to this at a visceral level. Even many females dont like Harris as they see her as the epitimome of the overpromoted DEI hire.

    Yep. Bigotry xenophobia and nostalgia are all very
    much gut feelings.


    See also: those in Russia who belive their
    legitimate sphere of influence extends as far west
    as the middle of Germany.

    those in Russia who belive their
    legitimate sphere of influence extends as far west
    as the middle of Germany


    Or, indeed, a political blog in UK on a Saturday morning
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    RHunt said:

    We shouldnt be complacent.
    This is the blurb from Tommy Robinsons best selling book manifesto.

    For decades the political class have openly planned to replace the indigenous people of Europe and in Manifesto we focus on how they are doing this in the UK. To ensure no-one disturbs their plans the elite manufacture a mythical far-right, when in truth it is the elite 1% who run a Fascist system of state-control, censorship and discrimination. Whenever someone has publicly addressed what is going on, the ruling class set about to destroy that person. We show how the elitist 1% have openly manipulated democracy to subjugate the masses, their elitist discussions carried on in plain sight for over a century, while they distract the masses with unimportant nonsense. The 1% knowingly plan to bring about another global conflict and in the aftermath they will end up in control of the world's resources and financial systems: "you will own nothing and you will be happy"

    I'm sensing you're not going to be around for too long, so good if you could get onto the topic of Ukraine now.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,756

    HYUFD said:

    Neither Trump nor Harris are great candidates and both their voters are voting against the other.

    If Trump and Vance lose I doubt he runs again, he will be too old and GOP voters will either look for a more centrist candidate like Haley or evangelicals will conclude he wasn't hardline on abortion enough and look for a more socially conservative candidate like DeSantis

    Trump won't run again. Imagine the farting, shitting, drooling sack of gibberish-spouting a broken body he will represent at the present rate of decline. He might get lucky: Putin's pursuit of the Elixir of Life might deliver. And Putin might repay him for Trump's gift of Covid testing machines with a small phial of the stuff. But Trump's hope of running again pretty much depend upon that scenario.

    Whether Vance can pick up the smouldering embers of MAGA is questionable. With Trump beaten, we may see a rebuilding of the Replican Party. Whether the rebuild can prise the loonier end of MAGA back will partly depend upon how much Marxism Harris has delivered. It probabl won't happen by 2028 anyway. A new formal MAGA Party might get funded by MUSK, splitting the American right for couple of elections beyond that. By which time for example the composition of the Supreme Court will look very different. Rowe v Wade will be reinstated - with safeguards - in a way that takes it out of politics. Possibly even the right to bear armswill have reduced the types of arms tghat can be borne - and where.

    We might return to an era when elections in the US are decided by the economy, stupid.
    Apparently he's been incontinent for around 25 years, and he still got over the line in 2016 and came close in the swing states in 2020. Voters are either unaware, don't believe his frailties or don't care as the US careers headlong into a dystopian nightmare.

    The problem we have is an unbridled media where absolute and unquestionable lies are left absolutely unquestioned. Newsmax just repeating Trump fiction. Jesse Watters seeing a statesmanlike performance when the rest of us see a Trump train wreck, and vice versa with Harris. Even the serious, relatively non-partisans are at it, the Washington Post fact checking Harris whilst not bothering with Trump, presumably on the expectations that every word uttered is 24 carat bullshine.

    Fifty percent of US voters are gullible and whereas Biden was vilified on TV for combining genuine short term illness (probably COVID) alongside some of the age related symptoms associated with a high functioning octogenarian, Trump on the other hand is perfectly entitled to talk in utter gibberish and crap his pants without comment.
    And the Beeb is just as bad. Yesterday’s piece in PM from North Carolina just puffed up the horse race, found two women to talk to with diametrically opposing views and came up with the conclusion that it’s too close to call. Superficial and stating the obvious.

    Nobody makes any effort to dig into the underlying nonsense, the partisan push polling, the dodgy crosstabs, the manipulation of data, not even the poll aggregators. Only the most egregious examples are excluded.

    Every single US election now has to be portrayed as too close to call, whatever the fundamentals. For this to be too close to call, they have to scrutinise Harris’s every word whilst sane washing all of Trumps.

    You won’t hear anything about low energy sleepy Don Old. But that’s where he is.

    I think that's too complacent. There are strong echos in this race of 2016. Trump, despite being a member of the inherited super-rich is seen as a man of the people whereas Harris, despite a more modest (though still thoroughly middle-class) background is a creature of the swamp. The race *is* too close to call, not least because the US is so divided and so many are more concerned about the threat of the other side than the merits of their own. Trump has done much to stoke that division but is far from alone and it isn't all from the right, though they bear primary responsibility.

    Anyway, if we're looking at media, too much attention is being paid to legacy broadcast linear media. Social media and the self-reinforcing bubbles are much more important now. Musk manipulating X's algorithms to benefit Trump is just one example.

    But either way, yes, lies are propagated and not called out - or if some are, the lies are so numerous that most get round the defence and even when they are challenged, it just gives them publicity to those who want to believe.

    It's an essential component in democracy that voters have to believe in the goodwill of the majority of those involved. Without that, debate and holding to account is impossible; all means justify ends; all methods are acceptable because the victory is more important than the system. That goodwill is absent; their democracy is just warfare by other means.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,082
    @maxh A thoughtful and interesting header - thank you. Earlier today I saw a photo of some young men holding up placards saying 'Sharia law for Britain' and thought to myself: I can sadly envisage circumstances when a vote for that would appear the least worst option.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    edited October 19
    nico679 said:

    RHunt said:

    Trump now the 8/11 fav for Pennsylvania and the 10/11 favourite for Michigan.

    Is that the polymarket betting ? Which is being flooded by dodgy money to big up Trumps chances.
    Perhaps William Hill Moscow Central branch.

    It is Saturday.
  • RHuntRHunt Posts: 44
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    Yes. Hence Brexit in 2016
    Except most voted Brexit to reduce immigration and got the opposite. Plus a nice 1 hour queue for passport control at Amsterdam.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,536
    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    Yup and Reform tap into that in the U.K.

    The solution of mainstream politicians here seems to be just to label their supporters stupid, thick, racist etc etc.

    No coincidence Reform is popular in many left behind areas for whom the boom post financial crash of 08 was something that happened to other areas.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,327
    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    That has some legs for 2016 but not so much now.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,581

    RHunt said:

    We shouldnt be complacent.
    This is the blurb from Tommy Robinsons best selling book manifesto.

    For decades the political class have openly planned to replace the indigenous people of Europe and in Manifesto we focus on how they are doing this in the UK. To ensure no-one disturbs their plans the elite manufacture a mythical far-right, when in truth it is the elite 1% who run a Fascist system of state-control, censorship and discrimination. Whenever someone has publicly addressed what is going on, the ruling class set about to destroy that person. We show how the elitist 1% have openly manipulated democracy to subjugate the masses, their elitist discussions carried on in plain sight for over a century, while they distract the masses with unimportant nonsense. The 1% knowingly plan to bring about another global conflict and in the aftermath they will end up in control of the world's resources and financial systems: "you will own nothing and you will be happy"

    Hello new Saturday morning weirdo poster.
    Our man in Moscow returns as regular as clockwork.
  • Amsterdam. No more stag and hen parties for brits!
  • RHuntRHunt Posts: 44
    My tiktok is flooded with quite excellent Trump campaign material. Particuarly noteworthy is seifties for Trump. "I dont know about you but Im voting Donald Trump baby".
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,536
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    Yes. Hence Brexit in 2016
    Yup, a cry from left behind areas. Still triggers loads on here, amusingly so.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,702

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,056
    Fishing said:

    maxh said:

    Fishing said:

    "What almost never seems to be asked of our two residents is: What is it that makes you pledge your support to such a flawed political project as ... Trump?"

    Actually this is often asked, in fact obsessively by some. Biden's whole economic policy, in restoring "good union jobs", however, flawed, can be seen as an attempt to bribe the white working class back into the Democratic fold that they have been fleeing since the 1960s.

    It clearly hasn't worked, either because it hasn't been done sufficiently, because it is completely impratical and counter-productive, or imo because the causes of the alienation of the WWC are mostly cultural rather than economic, but to say that this question is never asked is quite wrong.

    Fair challenge from both you and Nigelb.

    I guess when I think about politicians asking that question I really mean to include the idea that the politicians then implement a solution that makes a material difference to the lives of the white working class.

    So yes, there has been some rhetoric, but it has not been implemented well enough to create enough decent jobs to blunt Trump's appeal.
    No it's simply the wrong approach.

    America has plenty of decent jobs - of course not everybody has one, but enough exist that they can't by themselves explain how 80 million people will probably vote Trump in a fortnight.

    Trump's appeal is cultural, not economic. It's partly due to the ghastly celebrity-social media-reality TV world we have moved towards in the last couple of decades, and partly because white America's way of life has been under attack in many ways since the 1960s. White, Christian male supremacy, unthinking patriotism, heteronormativity, and similar have been questioned and undermined by liberal politicians, and Trump is the inevitable backlash. In addition, many of the decisions have been taken in the courts, so they have no democratic legitimacy, unlike, say, our vote to leave the EU.

    The Democrats can't really address those concerns without fracturing their own coalition, many of whom have of course benefited hugely from those policies. And, unlike economics, where you can often fudge and bribe individual groups, it is much more difficult to compromise when people frame issues as binary moral choices.

    That's the main reason why Trump may well win in a couple of weeks. Economics may exacerbate discontent, but it is a much more marginal cause than many would like to believe.
    First, celebrity politicians are not new. Trump's precedents include Ronald Reagan and Arnold Schwarzenegger, and arguably Eisenhower, the war hero. (Here too, with that bloke off HIGNFY.)

    Second, even if there is a backlash against the post-1960s zeitgeist, it is not obvious that serial philanderer, draft dodger and presumed atheist Donald Trump should be its standard bearer.
  • Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    Interesting. Thanks for the insight.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,674
    "The Sweet Bobby podcast tells the story of Kirat Assi, who was deceived into believing she was in an online relationship for nine years with a cardiologist called Dr Bobby Jandu."

    The perpetrator turned out to be her own cousin (female).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWrQSghyWZY
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,293

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    The American political system has many serious structural problems but maybe the biggest is its sheer cost - a point which is almost never addressed and taken by those there as simply a law of nature.

    If it costs hundreds of millions or billions to run for high office, you need to please those who donate. It's not a coincidence that the mega-wealthy have done very well out of DC in the last 30-40 years, while middle-class incomes have stagnated. A system that relies on the super-rich will not excessively cross their interests.

    But as so often, a skilled manipulator - which Trump is - can deflect the anger of the mob to an even more marginalised group, while maintaining a status quo that suits him very well.
    And that's an old old story, though the influence of megabucks in US politics is a distinctive take on it.

    Ultimately, it's the story Orwell told in The Book inside the book of 1984. Revolutions are often about a second class elite co-opting the ordinaries for just long enough to depose the first class elite. But not a second longer than necessary.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    edited October 19
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    Yes. Hence Brexit in 2016
    However it is mainly rightwing hacks like your goodself who have access to the instruments to promote why the peasants feel so sad and can drive agendas. "You are poor because of Europe/foreigners/ do-gooders/ the woke/ leftie lawyers/tax/ the liberal elite/ the blob/ public sector workers/ unions/ the BBC/ scroungers/ centrist politicians gorging on freebies". As a cabal you don't come up with solutions but you can recommend the sort of people who if given power also don't like Europe/foreigners/ do-gooders/ the woke/ leftie lawyers/tax/ the liberal elite/ the blob/ public sector workers/ unions/ the BBC/ scroungers/ centrist politicians gorging on freebies".
  • RHuntRHunt Posts: 44

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    The American political system has many serious structural problems but maybe the biggest is its sheer cost - a point which is almost never addressed and taken by those there as simply a law of nature.

    If it costs hundreds of millions or billions to run for high office, you need to please those who donate. It's not a coincidence that the mega-wealthy have done very well out of DC in the last 30-40 years, while middle-class incomes have stagnated. A system that relies on the super-rich will not excessively cross their interests.

    But as so often, a skilled manipulator - which Trump is - can deflect the anger of the mob to an even more marginalised group, while maintaining a status quo that suits him very well.
    Also basically a president can only govern for 3 years as the last year is all campaigning.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,375
    GIN1138 said:

    malcolmg said:

    first

    Good morning Malc! Hope you're well?
    Hello Gin, Indeed I am , sun shining and just about to go out and tidy up garden/do a bit of pruning. Hope you are well. I will raise aglass to you later.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,702

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    Yes. Hence Brexit in 2016
    However it is mainly rightwing hacks like your goodself who have access to the instruments to promote why the peasants feel so sad. "You are poor because of Europe/foreigners/ do-gooders/ the woke/ leftie lawyers/tax/ the liberal elite/ the blob/ public sector workers/ unions/ the BBC/ scroungers/ centrist politicians gorging on freebies". As a cabal you don't come up with solutions but you can recommend the sort of people who don't like Europe/foreigners/ do-gooders/ the woke/ leftie lawyers/tax/ the liberal elite/ the blob/ public sector workers/ unions/ the BBC/ scroungers/ centrist politicians gorging on freebies".
    Actually, “Europe/foreigners/ do-gooders/ the woke/ leftie lawyers/tax/ the liberal elite/ the blob/ public sector workers/ unions/ the BBC/ scroungers/ centrist politicians gorging on freebies” - is a pretty good list of the things crippling Britain, but I would remove “foreigners” and replace with “some foreigners” and I would remove “unions” and replace with “Labour”
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,888
    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,452
    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    And it continued to do so between 2015 and 2020. Which makes Trump's ability to pull the same con twice quite impressive.
  • Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    Either way. He is not a likeable person. I wonder what he is like to work for?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,056
    maxh said:

    kjh said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    I agree. I have asked the same question here several times. I don't understand it. I have read the replies to your post and none convince me so I am still stumped.

    The only rational explanation is 50% of Americans are stupid and that just can't be true.
    I'll have a go:

    (Tldr; not stupid, just applying their intelligence elsewhere)

    Politics just isn't that important to most people. People are busy, and choose to tune out a large proportion of the politics they hear in favour of more immediate, relevant (in their perception) concerns.

    When they do tune into politics most people don't engage their critical facilities nearly as much as they do, say, when choosing a school for their child or when choosing a flat to rent. In their perception choosing Trump or Harris just isn't as high stakes.

    Within that environment Trump garners more attention, and few have the time or intellectual energy to do the critical analysis to see through his nonsense. So he is superficially appealing, and most people don't get beyond the superficial.
    There is a theory (to dignify it a little) that weekly voting on reality television programmes has changed the way we approach elections.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,452
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    Yes. Hence Brexit in 2016
    The difference is that the UK electorate is quite disillusioned with that.
    Trump has managed to maintain his hold on the US right.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,375

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    Agree a total and utter moron and dangerous to boot.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,056

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    There's a fair amount of truth in this, and it certainly also applies to the over-confident Cameroonian Tories, as well as New Labour.

    But it's also a warning about the power of social media and cultural influences, because Biden is the first President in decades to begin and try and concretely address some of these issues, yet has received little recognition for this.
    Dominic Cummings saw this with Brexit, hence the levelling up agenda which lasted about a week under Boris and Rishi.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,915
    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    Easily said, but governments struggle to improve things for their own supporters, let alone consistently improve things for everyone, roughly equally to keep people content. The 1960-2000 of gradual improvement for most was a demographic and technological quirk, it is probably beyond us now.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,702

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    I know Aspies very well - as I say - I am sure he has it, he has also confessed to it, and I don’t see how he gains something from this admission

    But you do you
  • malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    Agree a total and utter moron and dangerous to boot.
    I agree with you. A unpleasant person for sure.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,562
    “The “Andrew Tate Trump” appeals to young Alpha Males who fear a life treading on eggshells and being bossed around by cat ladies.”

    Is it only Leon among you, who feels this particular appeal of giving Trump power? Are the rest of you all Beta Males?

    PB - the Al Gore of political blogs?

    The voters will never make a Beta Male President.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,702

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    Yes. Hence Brexit in 2016
    However it is mainly rightwing hacks like your goodself who have access to the instruments to promote why the peasants feel so sad and can drive agendas. "You are poor because of Europe/foreigners/ do-gooders/ the woke/ leftie lawyers/tax/ the liberal elite/ the blob/ public sector workers/ unions/ the BBC/ scroungers/ centrist politicians gorging on freebies". As a cabal you don't come up with solutions but you can recommend the sort of people who if given power also don't like Europe/foreigners/ do-gooders/ the woke/ leftie lawyers/tax/ the liberal elite/ the blob/ public sector workers/ unions/ the BBC/ scroungers/ centrist politicians gorging on freebies".
    Get yourself a fucking newspaper column then, you useless whining scrote
  • RHuntRHunt Posts: 44

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    Easily said, but governments struggle to improve things for their own supporters, let alone consistently improve things for everyone, roughly equally to keep people content. The 1960-2000 of gradual improvement for most was a demographic and technological quirk, it is probably beyond us now.
    We have had the universal franchise since 1933. Up to 2008 things were generally improving. But 2008 is like looking back at 1968 from 1984. A whole genetation is growing up in stagnation. This has consequences.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,411

    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    And how exactly will Trumps policies help the alleged downtrodden of forgotten America ?

    I could understand Trumps support if he had any policies that would help the Average Joe . As it is Trump appeals to the “ its always someone else’s fault “ brigade .

    Aswell as the racists and migrant haters .

    Thankfully our politics here hasn’t descended to the level of hate and polarization seen in the USA and there are still lines that can’t be crossed if you want to get elected .

    They won’t help. But my gut tells me the momentum is now with him and he’s going to win this one. We should be buckling up for an interesting 4 years.

    European currencies the day of his victory will be interesting as they’ll tell us how seriously or otherwise the markets take his tariff threats. If he goes ahead with what he’s promised we’re talking global trade depression, given China’s economy is simultaneously buckling under.
    It’s worth noting that Biden has been pursuing a protectionist, tariff policy in various areas. To explicitly bring manufacturing back to the US.
    My impression is that the USA has always pursued protectionist policies, because it thinks it can - much like the British Empire in Victorian times.

    One example is compulsory onshoring of substantial defence production.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,888

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    Either way. He is not a likeable person. I wonder what he is like to work for?
    From reading Ashlee Vance's biography of Musk from a decade+ ago: if you're one of the upper/important people in an organisation, he will treat you well as long as you toe the line. If you're junior, you're expendable. In that, he is like many CEOs.

    I haven't heard him do anything quite as shit as Steve Jobs used to do, but Musk's sacking of his long-term personal assistant was allegedly very heartless.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,832

    “The “Andrew Tate Trump” appeals to young Alpha Males who fear a life treading on eggshells and being bossed around by cat ladies.”

    Is it only Leon among you, who feels this particular appeal of giving Trump power? Are the rest of you all Beta Males?

    PB - the Al Gore of political blogs?

    The voters will never make a Beta Male President.

    There are also White Dudes for Harris.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13975523/trump-white-dudes-harris-al-smith-dinner-wives.html

    'There's a group called 'White Dudes for Harris,' he began. 'But I'm not worried about them at all, because their wives and their wives' lovers are all voting for me.'
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,656

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    Easily said, but governments struggle to improve things for their own supporters, let alone consistently improve things for everyone, roughly equally to keep people content. The 1960-2000 of gradual improvement for most was a demographic and technological quirk, it is probably beyond us now.
    Its the combination of 80% or 90% not getting richer but a great increase in wealth for the 1%.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,242
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    Yes. Hence Brexit in 2016
    However it is mainly rightwing hacks like your goodself who have access to the instruments to promote why the peasants feel so sad. "You are poor because of Europe/foreigners/ do-gooders/ the woke/ leftie lawyers/tax/ the liberal elite/ the blob/ public sector workers/ unions/ the BBC/ scroungers/ centrist politicians gorging on freebies". As a cabal you don't come up with solutions but you can recommend the sort of people who don't like Europe/foreigners/ do-gooders/ the woke/ leftie lawyers/tax/ the liberal elite/ the blob/ public sector workers/ unions/ the BBC/ scroungers/ centrist politicians gorging on freebies".
    Actually, “Europe/foreigners/ do-gooders/ the woke/ leftie lawyers/tax/ the liberal elite/ the blob/ public sector workers/ unions/ the BBC/ scroungers/ centrist politicians gorging on freebies” - is a pretty good list of the things crippling Britain, but I would remove “foreigners” and replace with “some foreigners” and I would remove “unions” and replace with “Labour”
    As one of that list myself (a public sector worker), claiming that these groups are crippling Britain is just as lazy as the claim that we Brexited because of racism. Whilst there may be elements of truth to either claim, it doesn't get to solutions, just as Mexicanpete says.

    Instead it feeds hate and resentment of others, which is far more likely to cripple Britain than your average do-gooder.
  • Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    Either way. He is not a likeable person. I wonder what he is like to work for?
    From reading Ashlee Vance's biography of Musk from a decade+ ago: if you're one of the upper/important people in an organisation, he will treat you well as long as you toe the line. If you're junior, you're expendable. In that, he is like many CEOs.

    I haven't heard him do anything quite as shit as Steve Jobs used to do, but Musk's sacking of his long-term personal assistant was allegedly very heartless.
    Thanks for that. Musk is someone who will never stop until he gets what he wants. I wonder if he is a content person. I am not sure that he is.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,888
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    I know Aspies very well - as I say - I am sure he has it, he has also confessed to it, and I don’t see how he gains something from this admission

    But you do you
    How can you be 'sure' he has it, from seeing only his public personae?

    There's a massive backlog of ADHD/aspergers/autism diagnoses in this country. You could earn a fortune using your diagnostic skills to reduce that backlog, without ever even meeting the patient!

    Or perhaps, as ever, you are bullshitting.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,525

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    Agree a total and utter moron and dangerous to boot.
    I agree with you. A unpleasant person for sure.
    One of the (few) advantages of growing up in the 50;'s was that no-one had Aspergers or were on the autistic spectrum.
    They were just people were to some degree or other odd, and were tolerated or not as appropriate.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,293
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    I know Aspies very well - as I say - I am sure he has it, he has also confessed to it, and I don’t see how he gains something from this admission

    But you do you
    Easy- it gives him an excuse. See also "it's not my fault I do bad things- it's my hormones/terrible childhood".

    I think it's safe to assume that the circles I move in have more people further along the spectrum than the ones you move in. (I once had a colleague who became a pastoral tutor at College College Oxbridge, and was sent on some Aspergers training. She showed me the checklist after the training, and we agreed that pretty much everyone in the faculty qualified for some sort of diagnosis.)

    The two axes, Aspie-to-not Aspie, and Git-to-not Git are pretty much independent of each other. Musk's problem is that there is hardly anyone who can say "no" to him any more. Which is why he does things like this;

    Billionaire Elon Musk promoted debunked conspiracy theories about election fraud Thursday at the first of a series of planned campaign events across Pennsylvania meant to rally support for former President Donald Trump’s campaign...

    https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/musk-pushes-debunked-dominion-voting-conspiracy-theory-campaign-appear-rcna175985
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,242

    “The “Andrew Tate Trump” appeals to young Alpha Males who fear a life treading on eggshells and being bossed around by cat ladies.”

    Is it only Leon among you, who feels this particular appeal of giving Trump power? Are the rest of you all Beta Males?

    PB - the Al Gore of political blogs?

    The voters will never make a Beta Male President.

    There are also White Dudes for Harris.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13975523/trump-white-dudes-harris-al-smith-dinner-wives.html

    'There's a group called 'White Dudes for Harris,' he began. 'But I'm not worried about them at all, because their wives and their wives' lovers are all voting for me.'
    This is such a perfect example of Trump's appeal through his sense of humour. I hate the man and all he stands for, but still feel my mouth twitching upwards at 'wive's lovers'.

    If you think politicians are all a bit crap, why not vote for the one that makes you smile?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,030
    Taz said:

    Yup and Reform tap into that in the U.K.

    The solution of mainstream politicians here seems to be just to label their supporters stupid, thick, racist etc etc.

    Nige and his fellow Farascists told voters that voting for Brexit would fix their problems which were caused the the forrin

    If voting for that wasn't stupid and racist I don't know what is

  • malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    Agree a total and utter moron and dangerous to boot.
    I agree with you. A unpleasant person for sure.
    One of the (few) advantages of growing up in the 50;'s was that no-one had Aspergers or were on the autistic spectrum.
    They were just people were to some degree or other odd, and were tolerated or not as appropriate.
    Exactly. None of these conditions were identified or fully understood then.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,056
    MattW said:

    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    And how exactly will Trumps policies help the alleged downtrodden of forgotten America ?

    I could understand Trumps support if he had any policies that would help the Average Joe . As it is Trump appeals to the “ its always someone else’s fault “ brigade .

    Aswell as the racists and migrant haters .

    Thankfully our politics here hasn’t descended to the level of hate and polarization seen in the USA and there are still lines that can’t be crossed if you want to get elected .

    They won’t help. But my gut tells me the momentum is now with him and he’s going to win this one. We should be buckling up for an interesting 4 years.

    European currencies the day of his victory will be interesting as they’ll tell us how seriously or otherwise the markets take his tariff threats. If he goes ahead with what he’s promised we’re talking global trade depression, given China’s economy is simultaneously buckling under.
    It’s worth noting that Biden has been pursuing a protectionist, tariff policy in various areas. To explicitly bring manufacturing back to the US.
    My impression is that the USA has always pursued protectionist policies, because it thinks it can - much like the British Empire in Victorian times.

    One example is compulsory onshoring of substantial defence production.
    It is not just protectionism but also subsidies, either hidden or explicit under Biden.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    Yup and Reform tap into that in the U.K.

    The solution of mainstream politicians here seems to be just to label their supporters stupid, thick, racist etc etc.

    Nige and his fellow Farascists told voters that voting for Brexit would fix their problems which were caused the the forrin

    If voting for that wasn't stupid and racist I don't know what is

    Just playing on peoples insecurities and anxiety as he does now. A pirate. Quite foul.
  • “The “Andrew Tate Trump” appeals to young Alpha Males who fear a life treading on eggshells and being bossed around by cat ladies.”

    Is it only Leon among you, who feels this particular appeal of giving Trump power? Are the rest of you all Beta Males?

    PB - the Al Gore of political blogs?

    The voters will never make a Beta Male President.

    Well, I think there's a pretty good argument that the most violent type of males have had too much influence on history. I'm not one of.those who doesn't see the need for both male and female influences in the world, though.

    On other aspects of what makes an alpha male, I in my youth tended to - ahem - find .. that beautiful women often preferred the reasonably handsome and reassuring, to the monosyllabic, or beefcake.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,242

    “The “Andrew Tate Trump” appeals to young Alpha Males who fear a life treading on eggshells and being bossed around by cat ladies.”

    Is it only Leon among you, who feels this particular appeal of giving Trump power? Are the rest of you all Beta Males?

    PB - the Al Gore of political blogs?

    The voters will never make a Beta Male President.

    It's good to see you back MoonRabbit.

    It is truly remarkable how Tate, Trump and others can persuade men that their insecurities are really their strengths; that a need to actually listen to partners and adapt is a sign of beta weakness, whereas brittle stubbornness is alpha.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    I know Aspies very well - as I say - I am sure he has it, he has also confessed to it, and I don’t see how he gains something from this admission

    But you do you
    How can you be 'sure' he has it, from seeing only his public personae?

    There's a massive backlog of ADHD/aspergers/autism diagnoses in this country. You could earn a fortune using your diagnostic skills to reduce that backlog, without ever even meeting the patient!

    Or perhaps, as ever, you are bullshitting.
    Business as usual for him.
  • RHuntRHunt Posts: 44

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    Agree a total and utter moron and dangerous to boot.
    I agree with you. A unpleasant person for sure.
    One of the (few) advantages of growing up in the 50;'s was that no-one had Aspergers or were on the autistic spectrum.
    They were just people were to some degree or other odd, and were tolerated or not as appropriate.
    Exactly. None of these conditions were identified or fully understood then.
    Thonk its the result of society prioritising emotional intelligence more. Aspies are just a subset of standard male behaviour.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,525

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    Agree a total and utter moron and dangerous to boot.
    I agree with you. A unpleasant person for sure.
    One of the (few) advantages of growing up in the 50;'s was that no-one had Aspergers or were on the autistic spectrum.
    They were just people were to some degree or other odd, and were tolerated or not as appropriate.
    Exactly. None of these conditions were identified or fully understood then.
    True. Several people I know, or knew then would perhaps have had happier lives if they had been.
    Perhaps, I sometimes wonder, if that includes me.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,888
    maxh said:

    “The “Andrew Tate Trump” appeals to young Alpha Males who fear a life treading on eggshells and being bossed around by cat ladies.”

    Is it only Leon among you, who feels this particular appeal of giving Trump power? Are the rest of you all Beta Males?

    PB - the Al Gore of political blogs?

    The voters will never make a Beta Male President.

    It's good to see you back MoonRabbit.

    It is truly remarkable how Tate, Trump and others can persuade men that their insecurities are really their strengths; that a need to actually listen to partners and adapt is a sign of beta weakness, whereas brittle stubbornness is alpha.
    Yet again, they are peddling simple answers to complex problems that really require complex answers.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,656

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    There's a fair amount of truth in this, and it certainly also applies to the over-confident Cameroonian Tories, as well as New Labour.

    But it's also a warning about the power of social media and cultural influences, because Biden is the first President in decades to begin and try and concretely address some of these issues, yet has received little recognition for this.
    Dominic Cummings saw this with Brexit, hence the levelling up agenda which lasted about a week under Boris and Rishi.
    No government has the resources to level up the poor into being rich.

    What they can do is create the education, training, employment and housing opportunities for people to prosper if they have the ability and make the effort.

    These opportunities cannot always be offered - employment opportunities were often limited in the 1980s or housing opportunities are limited in London.

    And unfortunately, even if the opportunities are available, some people will never have the ability and some people will never make the effort.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,242

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    Agree a total and utter moron and dangerous to boot.
    I agree with you. A unpleasant person for sure.
    One of the (few) advantages of growing up in the 50;'s was that no-one had Aspergers or were on the autistic spectrum.
    They were just people were to some degree or other odd, and were tolerated or not as appropriate.
    OKC I don't know if that would be an advantage of you actually were on the autistic spectrum, though.
  • RHuntRHunt Posts: 44
    Badenoch now 2/ 7 fav for conservative leadership. Think she will be an utter disaster.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,411
    edited October 19
    Lucy Conolly (Tory Councillor's wife imprisoned after pleading guilty to inciting racial hatred) sentencing remarks.

    Quite why she published (perhaps jocularly) her plans as to how she would pervert the course of justice if arrested is ... a little baffling.

    Text
    https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Connollysentence.pdf

    Video 8 minutes
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6b3nXrevsY
  • maxh said:

    “The “Andrew Tate Trump” appeals to young Alpha Males who fear a life treading on eggshells and being bossed around by cat ladies.”

    Is it only Leon among you, who feels this particular appeal of giving Trump power? Are the rest of you all Beta Males?

    PB - the Al Gore of political blogs?

    The voters will never make a Beta Male President.

    It's good to see you back MoonRabbit.

    It is truly remarkable how Tate, Trump and others can persuade men that their insecurities are really their strengths; that a need to actually listen to partners and adapt is a sign of beta weakness, whereas brittle stubbornness is alpha.
    Yet again, they are peddling simple answers to complex problems that really require complex answers.
    Absolutely right.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    In the 25 or so years I have been involved with ASD charities and taking advice from autism health profrssional experts, you and that guy who is the Spectator's Health Editor, Thomas I think he is called, are the only people I have come across who refer to people with ASD as "aspies".

    I bow to your greater expertise but some of Musk's foibles could be down to the fact that he grew up as an entitled white boy in apartheid South Africa. A bit like Oscar Pestorious who thought it was quite normal to blow away his girlfriend on a whim.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    Yes. Hence Brexit in 2016
    However it is mainly rightwing hacks like your goodself who have access to the instruments to promote why the peasants feel so sad and can drive agendas. "You are poor because of Europe/foreigners/ do-gooders/ the woke/ leftie lawyers/tax/ the liberal elite/ the blob/ public sector workers/ unions/ the BBC/ scroungers/ centrist politicians gorging on freebies". As a cabal you don't come up with solutions but you can recommend the sort of people who if given power also don't like Europe/foreigners/ do-gooders/ the woke/ leftie lawyers/tax/ the liberal elite/ the blob/ public sector workers/ unions/ the BBC/ scroungers/ centrist politicians gorging on freebies".
    Get yourself a fucking newspaper column then, you useless whining scrote
    Do you know someone who could put in a word?
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    Yes. Hence Brexit in 2016
    However it is mainly rightwing hacks like your goodself who have access to the instruments to promote why the peasants feel so sad and can drive agendas. "You are poor because of Europe/foreigners/ do-gooders/ the woke/ leftie lawyers/tax/ the liberal elite/ the blob/ public sector workers/ unions/ the BBC/ scroungers/ centrist politicians gorging on freebies". As a cabal you don't come up with solutions but you can recommend the sort of people who if given power also don't like Europe/foreigners/ do-gooders/ the woke/ leftie lawyers/tax/ the liberal elite/ the blob/ public sector workers/ unions/ the BBC/ scroungers/ centrist politicians gorging on freebies".
    Get yourself a fucking newspaper column then, you useless whining scrote
    Do you know someone who could put in a word?
    I will be happy to ask around.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,656
    edited October 19

    “The “Andrew Tate Trump” appeals to young Alpha Males who fear a life treading on eggshells and being bossed around by cat ladies.”

    Is it only Leon among you, who feels this particular appeal of giving Trump power? Are the rest of you all Beta Males?

    PB - the Al Gore of political blogs?

    The voters will never make a Beta Male President.

    Its not the Alpha Males he's appealing to but the Gamma and Delta Males who think they deserve to be Alpha Males.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    I know Aspies very well - as I say - I am sure he has it, he has also confessed to it, and I don’t see how he gains something from this admission

    But you do you
    How can you be 'sure' he has it, from seeing only his public personae?

    There's a massive backlog of ADHD/aspergers/autism diagnoses in this country. You could earn a fortune using your diagnostic skills to reduce that backlog, without ever even meeting the patient!

    Or perhaps, as ever, you are bullshitting.
    Are you calling into question Dr Leon's expertise? How very dare you! I have given you a like by the way.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,209
    RHunt said:

    kinabalu said:

    maxh said:

    kjh said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    I agree. I have asked the same question here several times. I don't understand it. I have read the replies to your post and none convince me so I am still stumped.

    The only rational explanation is 50% of Americans are stupid and that just can't be true.
    I'll have a go:

    (Tldr; not stupid, just applying their intelligence elsewhere)

    Politics just isn't that important to most people. People are busy, and choose to tune out a large proportion of the politics they hear in favour of more immediate, relevant (in their perception) concerns.

    When they do tune into politics most people don't engage their critical facilities nearly as much as they do, say, when choosing a school for their child or when choosing a flat to rent. In their perception choosing Trump or Harris just isn't as high stakes.

    Within that environment Trump garners more attention, and few have the time or intellectual energy to do the critical analysis to see through his nonsense. So he is superficially appealing, and most people don't get beyond the superficial.
    Yes. There are relatively high levels of ignorance stupidity and bigotry amongst his voters (no use pretending otherwise) but there is also plenty of what you describe here.
    But theres also gut feelings. Many Americans think female empowerment has gone too far and Trump speaks to this at a visceral level. Even many females dont like Harris as they see her as the epitimome of the overpromoted DEI hire.
    Yes, it’s ridiculous how far female empowerment has gone!!! Just look at all the female presidents we’ve had to date!!!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,525
    maxh said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    Agree a total and utter moron and dangerous to boot.
    I agree with you. A unpleasant person for sure.
    One of the (few) advantages of growing up in the 50;'s was that no-one had Aspergers or were on the autistic spectrum.
    They were just people were to some degree or other odd, and were tolerated or not as appropriate.
    OKC I don't know if that would be an advantage of you actually were on the autistic spectrum, though.
    No, it almost certainly wasn't.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,281
    edited October 19

    “The “Andrew Tate Trump” appeals to young Alpha Males who fear a life treading on eggshells and being bossed around by cat ladies.”

    Is it only Leon among you, who feels this particular appeal of giving Trump power? Are the rest of you all Beta Males?

    PB - the Al Gore of political blogs?

    The voters will never make a Beta Male President.

    Pleased to see you back.

    I suppose nominally I might be an Alpha male but if it involves the slightest danger of being elected President (or anything else) I am, like most of the characters in Brave New World, "glad I'm a Beta".
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,056

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    There's a fair amount of truth in this, and it certainly also applies to the over-confident Cameroonian Tories, as well as New Labour.

    But it's also a warning about the power of social media and cultural influences, because Biden is the first President in decades to begin and try and concretely address some of these issues, yet has received little recognition for this.
    Dominic Cummings saw this with Brexit, hence the levelling up agenda which lasted about a week under Boris and Rishi.
    No government has the resources to level up the poor into being rich.

    What they can do is create the education, training, employment and housing opportunities for people to prosper if they have the ability and make the effort.

    These opportunities cannot always be offered - employment opportunities were often limited in the 1980s or housing opportunities are limited in London.

    And unfortunately, even if the opportunities are available, some people will never have the ability and some people will never make the effort.
    Victim blaming gets us nowhere. Sure, lots of people at the bottom are there because they are stupid or feckless or on drugs.

    There are steps the government could take, for instance by making commuting easier to encourage workers to move there. To refurbish housing and sell it cheaply to encourage those of an entrepreneurial bent to move there. To stop local authorities in wealthier parts of the country dumping the homeless, addicted and mentally ill in left behind towns.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449

    “The “Andrew Tate Trump” appeals to young Alpha Males who fear a life treading on eggshells and being bossed around by cat ladies.”

    Is it only Leon among you, who feels this particular appeal of giving Trump power? Are the rest of you all Beta Males?

    PB - the Al Gore of political blogs?

    The voters will never make a Beta Male President.

    Its not the Alpha Males he's appealing to but the Gamma and Delta Males who think they deserve to be Alpha Males.
    Who? Leon or Tate.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,915

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    Easily said, but governments struggle to improve things for their own supporters, let alone consistently improve things for everyone, roughly equally to keep people content. The 1960-2000 of gradual improvement for most was a demographic and technological quirk, it is probably beyond us now.
    Its the combination of 80% or 90% not getting richer but a great increase in wealth for the 1%.
    I would agree with you. But I dont think that explains why people vote for the parties most heavily funded by and led by the 1% rather than the ones offering wealth taxes.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    I know Aspies very well - as I say - I am sure he has it, he has also confessed to it, and I don’t see how he gains something from this admission

    But you do you
    How can you be 'sure' he has it, from seeing only his public personae?

    There's a massive backlog of ADHD/aspergers/autism diagnoses in this country. You could earn a fortune using your diagnostic skills to reduce that backlog, without ever even meeting the patient!

    Or perhaps, as ever, you are bullshitting.
    Are you calling into question Dr Leon's expertise? How very dare you! I have given you a like by the way.
    Leon has a active imagination.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,674
    edited October 19
    Nigelb said:

    That's a précis of a Today report this morning.
    Missing is the description of the French (and other EU) authorities upping their game, which is why these trials are increasing in number, while handing down custodial sentences.
    The numbers of boats has dropped - hence the increase in overcrowding and mass drownings.

    Where it goes from here is an open question; the policing and cooperation is reportedly still improving.
    The smuggling gangs need to be totally stopped, like they have in Australia. That's the only solution.
  • Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    Easily said, but governments struggle to improve things for their own supporters, let alone consistently improve things for everyone, roughly equally to keep people content. The 1960-2000 of gradual improvement for most was a demographic and technological quirk, it is probably beyond us now.
    Its the combination of 80% or 90% not getting richer but a great increase in wealth for the 1%.
    I would agree with you. But I dont think that explains why people vote for the parties most heavily funded by and led by the 1% rather than the ones offering wealth taxes.
    This is the great enigma. Are some of these voters brainwashed by populist rhetoric?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    I know Aspies very well - as I say - I am sure he has it, he has also confessed to it, and I don’t see how he gains something from this admission

    But you do you
    How can you be 'sure' he has it, from seeing only his public personae?

    There's a massive backlog of ADHD/aspergers/autism diagnoses in this country. You could earn a fortune using your diagnostic skills to reduce that backlog, without ever even meeting the patient!

    Or perhaps, as ever, you are bullshitting.
    Are you calling into question Dr Leon's expertise? How very dare you! I have given you a like by the way.
    Leon has a active imagination.
    You don't, no surely not, think he might be on the spectrum?

    FWIW, I don't. But then I am not a seasoned health professional like the good doctor.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    RHunt said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    moonshine said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    a. Major media sources pump out pro-Trump propaganda. It’s not that Americans are thick: Americans simply don’t get told the facts.

    b. Racism is popular.
    Hmmm. So your considered view is “ignorant and racist”. Got it. That worked so well in 2016 (in both the US and UK).
    Americans are just as intelligent as everyone else in the world, but you ignore that there is a pro-Trump media bubble. If that’s all you hear, you form a very different view of the world.

    Trump is racist. He is running a racist campaign. Pretending that’s not happening is just bizarre.
    Yep. And win or lose he'll get a big vote on Nov 5th for various reasons. To list a few:

    He's the GOP candidate. Loads of people always vote GOP.
    He's a skilful exploiter of ignorance and resentment.
    He's charismatic and has built a massive energetic loyal cult (MAGA).
    Most Americans don't feel better off despite what the stats say.

    It might be enough. I don't think so but my instincts could be wrong. Soon find out anyway.
    Trump is a warning to democracies everywhere of what you get if mainstream politicians ignore the legitimate concerns of a large segment of the population. Between 2000 and 2015 life was getting worse for a lot of Americans but almost the entire political class ignored it because it suited them to believe that because everything was going quite well for them it must also be going well for everyone else.
    Yes. Hence Brexit in 2016
    Except most voted Brexit to reduce immigration and got the opposite. Plus a nice 1 hour queue for passport control at Amsterdam.
    Yeah, we have to queue along with the Russians and the Belarusians now.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    I know Aspies very well - as I say - I am sure he has it, he has also confessed to it, and I don’t see how he gains something from this admission

    But you do you
    How can you be 'sure' he has it, from seeing only his public personae?

    There's a massive backlog of ADHD/aspergers/autism diagnoses in this country. You could earn a fortune using your diagnostic skills to reduce that backlog, without ever even meeting the patient!

    Or perhaps, as ever, you are bullshitting.
    Are you calling into question Dr Leon's expertise? How very dare you! I have given you a like by the way.
    Leon has a active imagination.
    You don't, no surely not, think he might be on the spectrum?

    FWIW, I don't. But then I am not a seasoned health professional like the good doctor.
    Does he have a medical degree?
  • maxh said:

    Thanks everyone for an interesting discussion.

    Some of you have rightly pulled me up on a slightly flippant analogy but as OKC said the discussion that followed has been really interesting.

    I think it was Nigelb who said a vote for Trump is really about emotion not policy and I fully agree. But I would hold to the line that Harris needs an answer to some of the questions Trump is raising, just as Labour need to answer the questions Reform are raising.

    In a world of misinformation, mistrust and social media bubbles that is not easy. I increasingly think trust is the currency we should be protecting and valuing most. Without it we are defenceless against Trump, Farage and their ilk.

    Trust is crucial. Gut instinct is right only some of the time. I generally listen to it though. Most of the time!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,411
    edited October 19
    FPT:

    GIN1138 said:

    TSE bashing the bishops again I see...

    WELBY
    I quite approve of Welby. He's had enough personal troubles to knock rough corners off.

    If the Right are treating him as a raving freedom-hating liberal who is going to impose Transgenderism on the country (a talking point of far right Youtuber Maya Tousi, for example), and some elements of the liberal-left see him as a knuckle-dragging fundamentalist, then for an Archbishop of Canterbury in 2024 he's getting it somewhere near "about right".

    ABCs have to hold the organisational centre without being too marmite for the large majority, and operate by persuasion, influence and substantial consensus. They have authority, rather than power.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,300
    malcolmg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    malcolmg said:

    first

    Good morning Malc! Hope you're well?
    Hello Gin, Indeed I am , sun shining and just about to go out and tidy up garden/do a bit of pruning. Hope you are well. I will raise aglass to you later.
    I'm doing good thanks Malc. I'll raise a wee dram to you later as well! :D
  • RHuntRHunt Posts: 44

    RHunt said:

    kinabalu said:

    maxh said:

    kjh said:

    Trouble is, I never hear any serious analysis of why Trump might be doing so well in the USA other than Americans are a bit thick and stupid - which obviously isn't true - and is very patronising and an insult to our intelligence.

    We know why he shouldn't be doing so well, but he is.

    So, why?

    I agree. I have asked the same question here several times. I don't understand it. I have read the replies to your post and none convince me so I am still stumped.

    The only rational explanation is 50% of Americans are stupid and that just can't be true.
    I'll have a go:

    (Tldr; not stupid, just applying their intelligence elsewhere)

    Politics just isn't that important to most people. People are busy, and choose to tune out a large proportion of the politics they hear in favour of more immediate, relevant (in their perception) concerns.

    When they do tune into politics most people don't engage their critical facilities nearly as much as they do, say, when choosing a school for their child or when choosing a flat to rent. In their perception choosing Trump or Harris just isn't as high stakes.

    Within that environment Trump garners more attention, and few have the time or intellectual energy to do the critical analysis to see through his nonsense. So he is superficially appealing, and most people don't get beyond the superficial.
    Yes. There are relatively high levels of ignorance stupidity and bigotry amongst his voters (no use pretending otherwise) but there is also plenty of what you describe here.
    But theres also gut feelings. Many Americans think female empowerment has gone too far and Trump speaks to this at a visceral level. Even many females dont like Harris as they see her as the epitimome of the overpromoted DEI hire.
    Yes, it’s ridiculous how far female empowerment has gone!!! Just look at all the female presidents we’ve had to date!!!
    In the uk we have had 3 female pms plus many heads of local councils and police forces are women. They increasingly dominate the public sector.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    maxh said:

    “The “Andrew Tate Trump” appeals to young Alpha Males who fear a life treading on eggshells and being bossed around by cat ladies.”

    Is it only Leon among you, who feels this particular appeal of giving Trump power? Are the rest of you all Beta Males?

    PB - the Al Gore of political blogs?

    The voters will never make a Beta Male President.

    It's good to see you back MoonRabbit.

    It is truly remarkable how Tate, Trump and others can persuade men that their insecurities are really their strengths; that a need to actually listen to partners and adapt is a sign of beta weakness, whereas brittle stubbornness is alpha.
    Perhaps only the really, really gullible ones who want to believe Trump/ Tate's vile BS. I heard of a guy called Nigel, an educated posh dude, who used details, later found to be nonsense, from Andrew Tate's twitter bollocks to stir up unrest after the Southport atrocity.

    How f*****' stupid is that? Using Andrew Tate as a reliable source.
  • RHuntRHunt Posts: 44

    “The “Andrew Tate Trump” appeals to young Alpha Males who fear a life treading on eggshells and being bossed around by cat ladies.”

    Is it only Leon among you, who feels this particular appeal of giving Trump power? Are the rest of you all Beta Males?

    PB - the Al Gore of political blogs?

    The voters will never make a Beta Male President.

    Its not the Alpha Males he's appealing to but the Gamma and Delta Males who think they deserve to be Alpha Males.
    Oh sure the alpha male rugger bugger types can still do ok under feminism unless they hit a false rape charge. Tate appeals to the males in the tier below.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    I know Aspies very well - as I say - I am sure he has it, he has also confessed to it, and I don’t see how he gains something from this admission

    But you do you
    How can you be 'sure' he has it, from seeing only his public personae?

    There's a massive backlog of ADHD/aspergers/autism diagnoses in this country. You could earn a fortune using your diagnostic skills to reduce that backlog, without ever even meeting the patient!

    Or perhaps, as ever, you are bullshitting.
    Are you calling into question Dr Leon's expertise? How very dare you! I have given you a like by the way.
    Leon has a active imagination.
    You don't, no surely not, think he might be on the spectrum?

    FWIW, I don't. But then I am not a seasoned health professional like the good doctor.
    Does he have a medical degree?
    From the University of Life.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,242
    Fishing said:

    According to the papers Reeves is planning on:

    Freezing personal allowances
    Increasing road fuel duty
    Increasing air passenger tax

    I would support doing all three, each is far preferable to any national insurance increase.

    How about cutting expenditure and giving our overburdened taxpayers a break?

    Now THAT's a question that isn't asked nearly often enough.
    Your regular 'public services are in a mess' anecdote:

    A year 7 student has joined our school. They use a wheelchair. Our school is not set up for that.

    As a result this student has a full-time LSA employed to wheel them around, to protect them from crowds (our school has increased its intake to reduce the black hole in its finances, meaning there are tailbacks at the door to every building and on each stairway at lesson changeover).

    I don't know whether this student's EHCP funds an LSA full-time. But whether yes or no, either a (nearly) bankrupt council who have stopped collecting our recycling recently because they can't afford it are shelling out £30-40k to employ someone to do this, or the school is.

    This is an extreme example but serves to pose a thorny question: should we shut this student out of education because of their wheelchair use*, or should we have enough money in the system that the opportunity cost of that £30-40k is easier to stomach?

    I don't in principle disagree with the desire to cut expenditure. But if you're advocating for this you do need to be prepared to discuss the implications for vulnerable people.

    *In this particular case the answer might actually be that other schools might be better set up to accommodate a wheelchair. But I think the principle still stands.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,411
    edited October 19
    Nigelb said:

    That's a précis of a Today report this morning.
    Missing is the description of the French (and other EU) authorities upping their game, which is why these trials are increasing in number, while handing down custodial sentences.
    The numbers of boats has dropped - hence the increase in overcrowding and mass drownings.

    Where it goes from here is an open question; the policing and cooperation is reportedly still improving.
    I think that's an example of a trend that will be interesting.

    What are the Conservatives, and Reform, going to do if Mr Starmer actually starts having some success? If migrant numbers come down, and NHS waiting lists come down, and court backlogs reduce, and housebuilding increases (though I don't think 1.5 million in the first term is acceptable), what will Bobby or Kemi do?

    I think that in various areas where the Conservative "save the election" policies of the last 2 years have left some slack - for example implemented planning permissions - where there may be potential for improvement, even just by doing normal things moderately competently rather than staging PR stunts.

    Despite all the shouting, Rishi, Liz and Boris left a wide goal mouth behind them.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,433
    MattW said:

    FPT:

    GIN1138 said:

    TSE bashing the bishops again I see...

    WELBY
    I quite approve of Welby. He's had enough personal troubles to knock rough corners off.

    If the Right are treating him as a raving freedom-hating liberal who is going to impose Transgenderism on the country (a talking point of far right Youtuber Maya Tousi, for example), and some elements of the liberal-left see him as a knuckle-dragging fundamentalist, then for an Archbishop of Canterbury in 2024 he's getting it somewhere near "about right".

    ABCs have to hold the organisational centre without being too marmite for the large majority, and operate by persuasion, influence and substantial consensus. They have authority, rather than power.
    He's just a big trendy vicar.

    Sooner he goes the better.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,702

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has no sense of humour. At least if he does I have never seen it. Quite boring.

    Musk is Asperger’s. Very (very!!) high functioning autistic

    He definitely does have a sense of humour but it is

    1. Deeply quirky
    2. Often obscure to others
    3. Hampered by the quiet monotone voice/social awkwardness common to people with his condition

    I know (very closely) a couple of Aspies. They are some of the funniest people I have ever met. But you have to give them time and learn to understand the tones and mannerism

    "Musk is Asperger’s."

    He *claims* he has Asperger's. But he is also a liar. He possibly does, but possibly not. Personally, I'd blame his erratic and shit behaviour on a combination of Messianic complex and a load of drugs - which is why it has apparently worsened over the years.
    I know Aspies very well - as I say - I am sure he has it, he has also confessed to it, and I don’t see how he gains something from this admission

    But you do you
    Easy- it gives him an excuse. See also "it's not my fault I do bad things- it's my hormones/terrible childhood".

    I think it's safe to assume that the circles I move in have more people further along the spectrum than the ones you move in. (I once had a colleague who became a pastoral tutor at College College Oxbridge, and was sent on some Aspergers training. She showed me the checklist after the training, and we agreed that pretty much everyone in the faculty qualified for some sort of diagnosis.)

    The two axes, Aspie-to-not Aspie, and Git-to-not Git are pretty much independent of each other. Musk's problem is that there is hardly anyone who can say "no" to him any more. Which is why he does things like this;

    Billionaire Elon Musk promoted debunked conspiracy theories about election fraud Thursday at the first of a series of planned campaign events across Pennsylvania meant to rally support for former President Donald Trump’s campaign...

    https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/musk-pushes-debunked-dominion-voting-conspiracy-theory-campaign-appear-rcna175985
    I never said musk is a saint indeed I never said “musk is not a git”

    He does and says some remarkably stupid, nasty, harmful, ridiculous things

    He is also the unexampled engineering genius of our time, perhaps all time

    I merely said he evinces many of the classic traits of Asperges’s, quite profoundly, and given that he has also admitted to this diagnosis I am going with the obvious conclusion; he is Asperger’s

    Its no more complex than that
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,888
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    That's a précis of a Today report this morning.
    Missing is the description of the French (and other EU) authorities upping their game, which is why these trials are increasing in number, while handing down custodial sentences.
    The numbers of boats has dropped - hence the increase in overcrowding and mass drownings.

    Where it goes from here is an open question; the policing and cooperation is reportedly still improving.
    I think that's an example of a trend that will be interesting.

    What are the Conservatives, and Reform, going to do if Mr Starmer actually starts having some success? If migrant numbers come down, and NHS waiting lists come down, and court backlogs reduce, and housebuilding increases (though I don't think 1.5 million in the first term is acceptable), what will Bobby or Kemi do?

    I think that in various areas where the Conservative "save the election" policies of the last 2 years have left some slack - for example implemented planning permissions - where there may be potential for improvement, even just by doing normal things moderately competently rather than staging PR stunts.

    Despite all the shouting, Rishi, Liz and Boris left a wide goal mouth behind them.
    If he has some success in reducing the crossings (and I hope he does), then they will just move onto the next thing. Another type of immigrant. Some other othering. A real or perceived injustice for them to screech at the government about,
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,896

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    GIN1138 said:

    TSE bashing the bishops again I see...

    WELBY
    I quite approve of Welby. He's had enough personal troubles to knock rough corners off.

    If the Right are treating him as a raving freedom-hating liberal who is going to impose Transgenderism on the country (a talking point of far right Youtuber Maya Tousi, for example), and some elements of the liberal-left see him as a knuckle-dragging fundamentalist, then for an Archbishop of Canterbury in 2024 he's getting it somewhere near "about right".

    ABCs have to hold the organisational centre without being too marmite for the large majority, and operate by persuasion, influence and substantial consensus. They have authority, rather than power.
    He's just a big trendy vicar.

    Sooner he goes the better.
    Yes. No one deserves special treatment just because they believe in God. It doesn't make his voice any more relevant than yours or mine or Malcolm's or the proprietor of the chippy at thr end of the road or the mad drunk in Sale High Street.
  • RHuntRHunt Posts: 44
    Interesting. The democrats realise they have a problem.

    If Kamala loses, which is very possible, there needs to be a real discussion about how Democrats speak to and reach young men. There are very few straight men under 40 in the Democratic consultant class, so when ads try to reach young men, they come off deeply inauthentic.
    7:09 PM · Oct 18, 2024
    ·
    3.2M
    Views

    https://x.com/travishelwig/status/1847339192709222594
This discussion has been closed.