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Damned if she does, damned if she doesn’t – politicalbetting.com

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  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,209

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dopermean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @OccupyDemocrats
    BREAKING: The former chief marketer for NBC apologizes to the American people for giving us Donald Trump by helping to sell “The Apprentice” myth to the American people.

    This is humiliating for MAGA…

    “I want to apologize to America. I helped create a monster,” writes John D. Miller in a piece entitled “We Created a Monster: Trump Was a TV Fantasy Invented for 'The Apprentice'” for U.S. News & World Report.

    “For nearly 25 years, I led marketing at NBC and NBCUniversal,” Miller explains. “I led the team that marketed ‘The Apprentice,’ the reality show that made Donald Trump a household name outside of New York City, where he was better known for overextending his empire and appearing in celebrity gossip columns.”

    He goes on to state that his team “created the narrative that Trump was a super-successful businessman who lived like royalty” which was a “substantial exaggeration” that “created a false narrative by making him seem more successful than he was.”

    Miller points out that Trump had to declare bankruptcy four times before the show premiered and at least twice over the course of its 14 seasons.

    “The imposing board room where he famously fired contestants was a set, because his real boardroom was too old and shabby for TV,” writers Miller.

    In a section that is certain to bruise Trump’s ego, Miller states that he was the “perfect choice” for the show because “more successful CEOs were too busy to get involved in reality TV and didn’t want to hire random game show winners onto their executive teams.”

    Meanwhile, Trump “had no such concerns” and “plenty of time for filming.”

    “I never imagined that the picture we painted of Trump as a successful businessman would help catapult him to the White House,” writes Miller, likening all of their advertising around the show to “fake news” because it was so “highly exaggerated.”

    “I discovered in my interactions with him over the years that he is manipulative, yet extraordinarily easy to manipulate,” he goes on. “He has an unfillable compliment hole. No amount is too much. Flatter him and he is compliant. World leaders, including apparently Russian strongman Vladimir Putin and North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un, have discovered that too.”

    Not surprisingly, Trump was full of bad suggestions for the show. He wanted to make “a team of Black players compete against white players.” Miller tried to convince him against it by appealing to Trump’s greed and telling him that it would alienate sponsors.

    “While we were successful in marketing ‘The Apprentice,’ we also did irreparable harm by creating the false image of Trump as a successful leader. I deeply regret that,” writers Miller. “And I regret that it has taken me so long to go public.”

    https://x.com/OccupyDemocrats/status/1846939723379450122

    Too late now....

    Somewhere in Essex, Alan Sugar changes the subject ....
    What could have been. Very poignant.
    An business icon of Thatcher's 80s. It would have been very symbolic if he became PM.
    Have you ever owned an Amstrad product? No, I thought not. Back in the day some of the consumer electronics he sold were DelBoy quality merchandise, but sold from Currys rather than a market stall.
    Amstrad computers were affordable IBM-compatible PCs for about half the price. Its word processors brought a generation into IT. Amstrad was the second largest European computer manufacturer behind Olivetti.

    Sugar was the Elon Musk of his day, with around half a dozen brilliant ideas over his career.

    The legitimate criticism of Lord Sugar is not that he spoke common or sold rubbish but that despite often achieving near-monopoly status with several products, none of it lasted. There was no research, development or investment.
    Sugar was/is no Musk.

    Musk is jumping up and down amazing. He is though like the rest of us and has a long list of faults.
    Musk has not invented anything. What he has done is simplified production across industries which is the similarity with Sugar (and cashed a few cheques from Uncle Sam). Sure, Musk is playing in a higher league but it is the same game.
    Rockets aren't rocket science?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,801
    edited October 17
    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    The grief that Labour are suffering is entirely of their own making. The creating of a fantasy black hole was an own goal of epic proportions.
    I doubt Reeves will still be there in 12 months time.

    The new Labour government is making some of the mistakes the Cameron government made when it took power, without causing any substantial political problems for them.
    Not entirely fantasy.

    Repair bill for crumbling NHS buildings in England soars to almost £14bn
    NHS Providers chief says 'vital bits of the NHS are literally falling apart after years of underinvestment’

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/oct/17/repair-bill-for-crumbling-nhs-buildings-soars-to-almost-14bn
    The cost of repairing crumbling NHS buildings has soared to almost £14bn, prompting warnings that patients and staff are at risk from falling roofs and faulty equipment.

    The repair bill faced by the health service to make its estate fit for purpose has more than trebled from £4.5bn in 2012-13 to £13.8bn last year, according to NHS England data.

    The latest bill means that, for the first time since records began, it would cost the NHS more to eradicate its maintenance backlog than the £13.6bn it spends on running its entire estate...

    Brown started this. Shiny new PFI paid for stuff, and nobody will notice in our term if we let the rest of it fall apart.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,056

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Foxy said:

    Incidentally I expect quite a binge on spending this Christmas on big ticket items. A contact in the pensions industry says that they have had a very busy month paying out tax free lump sums before the budget. Some will go to other savings but some will get spent.

    I got a fair way along the path of taking the 25 per cent but decided it was too much like hard work. That said, it would be nice to keep it for lower annual withdrawals so if the Chancellor is reading this, please cap it rather than remove it.
    what made it hard work, just an e-mail to your platform and they send you the cash
    Yes, I put the process in motion but then discovered I had a second pot with them, and that would have left them in different states. This is where it became complicated and with hindsight I should have sought a financial advisor.

    As a general rant, why did they not tell me I had a long-forgotten pot with them (that came via an acquisition so was not available on their website), and why does the government not make it easier to trace pension pots?
    Mr Cameron's administration set a scheme up:

    https://www.gov.uk/find-pension-contact-details

    But perhaps not good enough?
    The current scheme basically relies on remembering who you worked for, and finding out which pension providers they used, then asking the provider if they have anything for you. It is complicated by employers going out of business, or being one of a dozen similarly-named companies, and likewise pension providers. And many people will have trouble remembering job-hopping decades ago. It's great for one-company careers though.

    What HMG should do is set up a central database so you could type in your NI number and have the answer pop out.
    https://www.ajbell.co.uk/sipp/ready-made-pension

    Disclaimer - I own a risibly small shareholding in the company which delivers this for them.
    Ah but even here we see the problem. AJ Bell's pension tracking service, when you click through your link, says: Finally, we’ll need to know a bit about your previous employers, to help us get to work finding your pensions.

    Lots of people can't remember all their previous employers, and even when they can, can't remember which of the 43 almost identically-named firms is the right one.

    If the government were to set up a central database, of information it probably knows at some level anyway in order to provide tax relief, it would greatly help pensioners and also reduce the DWP's bill.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,452
    The other point, of course, is that a decade and a half of Tory government crushed infrastructure investment while world interest rates were historically low.

    Making up for that now is a significantly harder task.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,809
    edited October 17
    Omnium said:

    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    The grief that Labour are suffering is entirely of their own making. The creating of a fantasy black hole was an own goal of epic proportions.
    I doubt Reeves will still be there in 12 months time.

    The new Labour government is making some of the mistakes the Cameron government made when it took power, without causing any substantial political problems for them.
    Not entirely fantasy.

    Repair bill for crumbling NHS buildings in England soars to almost £14bn
    NHS Providers chief says 'vital bits of the NHS are literally falling apart after years of underinvestment’

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/oct/17/repair-bill-for-crumbling-nhs-buildings-soars-to-almost-14bn
    The cost of repairing crumbling NHS buildings has soared to almost £14bn, prompting warnings that patients and staff are at risk from falling roofs and faulty equipment.

    The repair bill faced by the health service to make its estate fit for purpose has more than trebled from £4.5bn in 2012-13 to £13.8bn last year, according to NHS England data.

    The latest bill means that, for the first time since records began, it would cost the NHS more to eradicate its maintenance backlog than the £13.6bn it spends on running its entire estate...

    Brown started this. Shiny new PFI paid for stuff, and nobody will notice in our term if we let the rest of it fall apart.
    The stuff falling apart mostly predates PFI of any strand. We still have a lot of Victorian era estate in the NHS.

    As a general rule I think a property owners should budget 1% of the value of property for annual maintenance, before major renovations.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,801
    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    The grief that Labour are suffering is entirely of their own making. The creating of a fantasy black hole was an own goal of epic proportions.
    I doubt Reeves will still be there in 12 months time.

    The new Labour government is making some of the mistakes the Cameron government made when it took power, without causing any substantial political problems for them.
    Not entirely fantasy.

    Repair bill for crumbling NHS buildings in England soars to almost £14bn
    NHS Providers chief says 'vital bits of the NHS are literally falling apart after years of underinvestment’

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/oct/17/repair-bill-for-crumbling-nhs-buildings-soars-to-almost-14bn
    The cost of repairing crumbling NHS buildings has soared to almost £14bn, prompting warnings that patients and staff are at risk from falling roofs and faulty equipment.

    The repair bill faced by the health service to make its estate fit for purpose has more than trebled from £4.5bn in 2012-13 to £13.8bn last year, according to NHS England data.

    The latest bill means that, for the first time since records began, it would cost the NHS more to eradicate its maintenance backlog than the £13.6bn it spends on running its entire estate...

    Brown started this. Shiny new PFI paid for stuff, and nobody will notice in our term if we let the rest of it fall apart.
    The stuff falling apart mostly predates PFI of any strand. We still have a lot of Victorian era estate in the NHS.

    As a general rule I think a property owners should budget 1% of the value of property for annual maintenance, before major renovations.
    Yes - the failure to look after the stuff was a Gordon Brown policy, and continued since.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,293
    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    The grief that Labour are suffering is entirely of their own making. The creating of a fantasy black hole was an own goal of epic proportions.
    I doubt Reeves will still be there in 12 months time.

    The new Labour government is making some of the mistakes the Cameron government made when it took power, without causing any substantial political problems for them.
    Not entirely fantasy.

    Repair bill for crumbling NHS buildings in England soars to almost £14bn
    NHS Providers chief says 'vital bits of the NHS are literally falling apart after years of underinvestment’

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/oct/17/repair-bill-for-crumbling-nhs-buildings-soars-to-almost-14bn
    The cost of repairing crumbling NHS buildings has soared to almost £14bn, prompting warnings that patients and staff are at risk from falling roofs and faulty equipment.

    The repair bill faced by the health service to make its estate fit for purpose has more than trebled from £4.5bn in 2012-13 to £13.8bn last year, according to NHS England data.

    The latest bill means that, for the first time since records began, it would cost the NHS more to eradicate its maintenance backlog than the £13.6bn it spends on running its entire estate...

    Brown started this. Shiny new PFI paid for stuff, and nobody will notice in our term if we let the rest of it fall apart.
    The stuff falling apart mostly predates PFI of any strand. We still have a lot of Victorian era estate in the NHS.

    As a general rule I think a property owners should budget 1% of the value of property for annual maintenance, before major renovations.
    Yes - the failure to look after the stuff was a Gordon Brown policy, and continued since.
    Nah, it's been largely the case for at least our lifetimes, probably longer. The easiest way to cut spending is to extend the refurbishment cycle a bit. Which is why my early 1990s A Level maths class spent a couple of days post mock exams repainting the classrooms.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,896

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Foxy said:

    Incidentally I expect quite a binge on spending this Christmas on big ticket items. A contact in the pensions industry says that they have had a very busy month paying out tax free lump sums before the budget. Some will go to other savings but some will get spent.

    I got a fair way along the path of taking the 25 per cent but decided it was too much like hard work. That said, it would be nice to keep it for lower annual withdrawals so if the Chancellor is reading this, please cap it rather than remove it.
    what made it hard work, just an e-mail to your platform and they send you the cash
    Yes, I put the process in motion but then discovered I had a second pot with them, and that would have left them in different states. This is where it became complicated and with hindsight I should have sought a financial advisor.

    As a general rant, why did they not tell me I had a long-forgotten pot with them (that came via an acquisition so was not available on their website), and why does the government not make it easier to trace pension pots?
    Mr Cameron's administration set a scheme up:

    https://www.gov.uk/find-pension-contact-details

    But perhaps not good enough?
    The current scheme basically relies on remembering who you worked for, and finding out which pension providers they used, then asking the provider if they have anything for you. It is complicated by employers going out of business, or being one of a dozen similarly-named companies, and likewise pension providers. And many people will have trouble remembering job-hopping decades ago. It's great for one-company careers though.

    What HMG should do is set up a central database so you could type in your NI number and have the answer pop out.
    https://www.ajbell.co.uk/sipp/ready-made-pension

    Disclaimer - I own a risibly small shareholding in the company which delivers this for them.
    Ah but even here we see the problem. AJ Bell's pension tracking service, when you click through your link, says: Finally, we’ll need to know a bit about your previous employers, to help us get to work finding your pensions.

    Lots of people can't remember all their previous employers, and even when they can, can't remember which of the 43 almost identically-named firms is the right one.

    If the government were to set up a central database, of information it probably knows at some level anyway in order to provide tax relief, it would greatly help pensioners and also reduce the DWP's bill.
    Even if you can remember your employer, it's likely that your employer has subcontracted pensions to an external supplier, which gets taken over by someone new every seven years.
    By the age of 42 I had aquired five different defined benefit schemes and three pots from various employers' defined contribution schemes. It's jolly hard to keep track of. I sat down with an advisor, and we managed to find seven out of eight.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,832
    Courtesy of the Times: "JD Vance hosts MAGA rally in Pennsylvania"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1Q0gW0q1Wk
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,242
    nico679 said:

    More disgusting comments from the stain on humanity today . Out and out racism , then blaming Ukraine for the war and then slagging off Poland for not stopping Hitler from invading .

    Is this our very own PB stain on humanity, or the one over the water?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,056

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    The grief that Labour are suffering is entirely of their own making. The creating of a fantasy black hole was an own goal of epic proportions.
    I doubt Reeves will still be there in 12 months time.

    The new Labour government is making some of the mistakes the Cameron government made when it took power, without causing any substantial political problems for them.
    Not entirely fantasy.

    Repair bill for crumbling NHS buildings in England soars to almost £14bn
    NHS Providers chief says 'vital bits of the NHS are literally falling apart after years of underinvestment’

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/oct/17/repair-bill-for-crumbling-nhs-buildings-soars-to-almost-14bn
    The cost of repairing crumbling NHS buildings has soared to almost £14bn, prompting warnings that patients and staff are at risk from falling roofs and faulty equipment.

    The repair bill faced by the health service to make its estate fit for purpose has more than trebled from £4.5bn in 2012-13 to £13.8bn last year, according to NHS England data.

    The latest bill means that, for the first time since records began, it would cost the NHS more to eradicate its maintenance backlog than the £13.6bn it spends on running its entire estate...

    Brown started this. Shiny new PFI paid for stuff, and nobody will notice in our term if we let the rest of it fall apart.
    The stuff falling apart mostly predates PFI of any strand. We still have a lot of Victorian era estate in the NHS.

    As a general rule I think a property owners should budget 1% of the value of property for annual maintenance, before major renovations.
    Yes - the failure to look after the stuff was a Gordon Brown policy, and continued since.
    Nah, it's been largely the case for at least our lifetimes, probably longer. The easiest way to cut spending is to extend the refurbishment cycle a bit. Which is why my early 1990s A Level maths class spent a couple of days post mock exams repainting the classrooms.
    LOL. Should have made it a practical exercise for Art classes to brand each classroom with a subject-appropriate mural. Failure of imagination there!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,452
    Omnium said:

    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    The grief that Labour are suffering is entirely of their own making. The creating of a fantasy black hole was an own goal of epic proportions.
    I doubt Reeves will still be there in 12 months time.

    The new Labour government is making some of the mistakes the Cameron government made when it took power, without causing any substantial political problems for them.
    Not entirely fantasy.

    Repair bill for crumbling NHS buildings in England soars to almost £14bn
    NHS Providers chief says 'vital bits of the NHS are literally falling apart after years of underinvestment’

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/oct/17/repair-bill-for-crumbling-nhs-buildings-soars-to-almost-14bn
    The cost of repairing crumbling NHS buildings has soared to almost £14bn, prompting warnings that patients and staff are at risk from falling roofs and faulty equipment.

    The repair bill faced by the health service to make its estate fit for purpose has more than trebled from £4.5bn in 2012-13 to £13.8bn last year, according to NHS England data.

    The latest bill means that, for the first time since records began, it would cost the NHS more to eradicate its maintenance backlog than the £13.6bn it spends on running its entire estate...

    Brown started this. Shiny new PFI paid for stuff, and nobody will notice in our term if we let the rest of it fall apart.
    Oh, I don’t defend Brown for a moment. I think he was a crap Chancellor.

    But note that the Conservatives, since Thatcher, have shared the incomprehension of what private sector delivery of public services involves - as the water fiasco demonstrates.

    The private sector is excellently motivated to deliver… as much profit for the private sector as it is able. Nothing wrong with that; but it means it’s very happy to fleece the taxpayer, if given the opportunity.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,242
    Nigelb said:

    The other point, of course, is that a decade and a half of Tory government crushed infrastructure investment while world interest rates were historically low.

    Making up for that now is a significantly harder task.

    I don't understand why this doesn't get hung around the Tories' necks far more than it does. If investment is the answer, which it seems everyone agrees with, then austerity was criminally poor economic policy in 2010-2020.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,801
    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    I apologise on behalf of London cyclists. What a horrible experience. Personally I always stop for red lights at pedestrian crossings and stop at zebra crossings when someone is crossing or waiting to cross. I also was almost knocked off my bike this week by a fellow cyclist who sped round a bend with no regard to people coming, so I can confirm that many of my fellow cyclists are indeed awful - he didn't even say sorry. I think in part the aggression is a response to stress and danger, but of course if you cycle more carefully it is less stressful so you can control this.
    And worth pointing out that about 85% of cyclists stop at red lights, according to TfL. You can get points on your driving licence for doing it, just not enough cops to enforce it.

    A loophole is available - pop a leg over and scoot across.
    Surprised it's as high as 85%. You don't get that impression in central London.
    Likely from a survey, where 85% of cyclists responded 'yes' to 'have you ever stopped at a red light' :wink:
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,674
    Badenoch speaking.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,832
    https://news.sky.com/story/middle-east-latest-israel-says-it-is-checking-possibility-it-has-killed-hamas-leader-yahya-sinwar-12978800

    Joe Biden has branded Yahya Sinwar's killing a "good day for Israel, for the United States and for the world".
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,059
    maxh said:

    Nigelb said:

    The other point, of course, is that a decade and a half of Tory government crushed infrastructure investment while world interest rates were historically low.

    Making up for that now is a significantly harder task.

    I don't understand why this doesn't get hung around the Tories' necks far more than it does. If investment is the answer, which it seems everyone agrees with, then austerity was criminally poor economic policy in 2010-2020.
    Not only was government austerity a poor policy, the combined austerity (which continues to this day) of our public and private sectors is a blight on Britain’s economy. We are, across sectors, regions, even age groups, a nation of asset sweaters who when faced with the choice of investing or taking the cash will always take the cash. A nation custom-built never to go for bully’s special prize.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,861
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1m
    Kemi Badenoch is winning this hands down.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,817
    TOPPING said:

    On cyclists I would put it at 60-70% go through red lights if certain death can't be assured. Our very own @OnlyLivingBoy has admitted that he does and he seems a sensible type and is (IIRC) a parent to boot, so where does that leave more reckless types.

    To be honest there's only one junction on my regular commute where I go through a red light, and even then only in the morning when the junction has no traffic. It's busier in the evening so I wait. I don't go through any other reds, and I always stop for pedestrians. I am much more sinned against than sinner.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    edited October 17

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down "I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,452
    maxh said:

    Nigelb said:

    The other point, of course, is that a decade and a half of Tory government crushed infrastructure investment while world interest rates were historically low.

    Making up for that now is a significantly harder task.

    I don't understand why this doesn't get hung around the Tories' necks far more than it does. If investment is the answer, which it seems everyone agrees with, then austerity was criminally poor economic policy in 2010-2020.
    Their “long term economic plan” was sadly derailed by Brexit ?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,817

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    I apologise on behalf of London cyclists. What a horrible experience. Personally I always stop for red lights at pedestrian crossings and stop at zebra crossings when someone is crossing or waiting to cross. I also was almost knocked off my bike this week by a fellow cyclist who sped round a bend with no regard to people coming, so I can confirm that many of my fellow cyclists are indeed awful - he didn't even say sorry. I think in part the aggression is a response to stress and danger, but of course if you cycle more carefully it is less stressful so you can control this.
    Judging by what happens at Richmond Park....

    Noticed that the cyclists who rock up in a big, expensive car, driving like thugs.... assemble their bike etc then tend to be utter thugs on the circuit.
    I went cycling in Richmond Park with some friends a couple of weeks ago, but we cycled there, a nice 40 mile round trip.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down "I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    Their manners are worse than White Van Man.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,059

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1m
    Kemi Badenoch is winning this hands down.

    I’m sensing in my bones the momentum is probably with Badenoch.

    I think she’ll land more TV punches on Starmer in PMQs than Jenrick would, but I also think she probably makes the whole Labour “grown ups in charge” thing easier to push.

    I really don’t know which of them would go down with the public better. She’s the sort of Emily Thornberry of the Tories where he’s the Richard Burgon.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,817

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down "I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    Their manners are worse than White Van Man.
    But better than Range Rover drivers I would imagine.
  • maxh said:

    Nigelb said:

    The other point, of course, is that a decade and a half of Tory government crushed infrastructure investment while world interest rates were historically low.

    Making up for that now is a significantly harder task.

    I don't understand why this doesn't get hung around the Tories' necks far more than it does. If investment is the answer, which it seems everyone agrees with, then austerity was criminally poor economic policy in 2010-2020.
    Well, the media is your answer. Tory governments were never held to account by most newspapers for degrading Britain's televisual culture with structural changes, so they wouldn"t have been for their monumental failure to invest at the most opportune moments, either.
    This is essentiallly because, although in other ways its institutions and traditions are much healthier, its level of press fealty to the Conservatives is closer to countries like Hungary or India.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,861
    She's doing very well. Clearly thought through answers.

    Tory party would be quite literally mad not to choose Kemi over Jenrick.
  • She's doing very well. Clearly thought through answers.

    Tory party would be quite literally mad not to choose Kemi over Jenrick.

    That’s what I like about he is that she thinks things through and answers. Which is why the interviews with sky at conference are so disappointing.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,059
    edited October 17

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down "I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    Their manners are worse than White Van Man.
    I’ve never encountered an aggressive or rude female cyclist. It seems to be a wholly MAMIL phenomenon.

    I’ve been sworn and shouted at, as a
    pedestrian, several times more by cyclists in the last few years than drivers.

    They should visit Denmark or the Netherlands and rediscover what cycling is supposed to be about. Getting from A to B. The worst I’ve had there even when absent mindedly stepping out into a cycle lane is a ring on the bicycle bell.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    Andy_JS said:

    Chris Chope.

    "Kemi Badenoch too ‘preoccupied with her children’ to lead, says MP
    Sir Christopher Chope, who is supporting Robert Jenrick, her rival in the Tory leadership race, has been urged to apologise and branded a ‘dinosaur’"

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/tory-mp-christopher-chope-kemi-badenoch-children-3lv2rj3wl

    He's the hero who doesn't approve of and filibusters Private Member's Bills, even for valiant causes, unless the private member is a friend of his.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,411
    Andy_JS said:

    Badenoch speaking.

    I'm watching the Track Cycling Championship, which is far more interesting.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,832
    Badenoch: "If we need to leave the ECHR to control immigration then we should leave it but it's not a silver bullet and it's not even the most radical thing we could do."
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,775
    edited October 17

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down " I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    What theoldpolitics was attempting to explain was that riding two abreast reduces the time it takes to overtake cyclists, and is therefore safer than riding single file.

    If it was physically impossible to overtake the cyclists when they were riding two abreast, it is likely that she would have been unable to pass them safely (leaving a 1.5m gap) even if they were riding single file.

    The response of the cyclist would not be covered by the Highway Code. The Public Order Act?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,861

    Badenoch: "If we need to leave the ECHR to control immigration then we should leave it but it's not a silver bullet and it's not even the most radical thing we could do."

    She's taking Jenrick and his ideas completely apart.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down "I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    Their manners are worse than White Van Man.
    Thank you Emily Thornberry.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,861
    TimS said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1m
    Kemi Badenoch is winning this hands down.

    I’m sensing in my bones the momentum is probably with Badenoch.

    I think she’ll land more TV punches on Starmer in PMQs than Jenrick would, but I also think she probably makes the whole Labour “grown ups in charge” thing easier to push.

    I really don’t know which of them would go down with the public better. She’s the sort of Emily Thornberry of the Tories where he’s the Richard Burgon.
    Gove is right. Jenrick is tory boy. The public will hate him.

  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,082
    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    The grief that Labour are suffering is entirely of their own making. The creating of a fantasy black hole was an own goal of epic proportions.
    I doubt Reeves will still be there in 12 months time.

    The new Labour government is making some of the mistakes the Cameron government made when it took power, without causing any substantial political problems for them.
    Not entirely fantasy.

    Repair bill for crumbling NHS buildings in England soars to almost £14bn
    NHS Providers chief says 'vital bits of the NHS are literally falling apart after years of underinvestment’

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/oct/17/repair-bill-for-crumbling-nhs-buildings-soars-to-almost-14bn
    The cost of repairing crumbling NHS buildings has soared to almost £14bn, prompting warnings that patients and staff are at risk from falling roofs and faulty equipment.

    The repair bill faced by the health service to make its estate fit for purpose has more than trebled from £4.5bn in 2012-13 to £13.8bn last year, according to NHS England data.

    The latest bill means that, for the first time since records began, it would cost the NHS more to eradicate its maintenance backlog than the £13.6bn it spends on running its entire estate...

    Part of the problem is that buildings are built for the known state of the art at that time, and state of the art develops leaving the buildings behind, as it were.

    Good evening everyone.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,861
    I'm topping up on Badenoch.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    edited October 17
    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down " I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    What theoldpolitics was attempting to explain was that riding two abreast reduces the time it takes to overtake cyclists, and is therefore safer than riding single file.

    If it was physically impossible to overtake the cyclists when they were riding two abreast, it is likely that she would have been unable to pass them safely (leaving a 1.5m gap) even if they were riding single file.

    The response of the cyclist would not be covered by the Highway Code. The Public Order Act?
    Yes.

    If one treats a cyclist as the width of a car it is possible to overtake on this road quite comfortably, but not overtaking the width of two cars. The Police believed she was perfectly entitled to use her horn in a non aggressive manner.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,411
    edited October 17

    Badenoch: "If we need to leave the ECHR to control immigration then we should leave it but it's not a silver bullet and it's not even the most radical thing we could do."

    She's taking Jenrick and his ideas completely apart.
    Listening to Jenrick, he really gave the same answer to every question in the period I heard, and he took each and went back to saying the same thing.

    I'm sticking with "Generic Bob", but maybe "Boilerplate Bob" is another option.

    On prisons, Keni sounds confused. "Prison works", but then she says that the problem is 10% of criminals, and if *they* are in prison, we can deal with the rest.

    That doesn't quite sound like "prison works".
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,293
    TimS said:

    maxh said:

    Nigelb said:

    The other point, of course, is that a decade and a half of Tory government crushed infrastructure investment while world interest rates were historically low.

    Making up for that now is a significantly harder task.

    I don't understand why this doesn't get hung around the Tories' necks far more than it does. If investment is the answer, which it seems everyone agrees with, then austerity was criminally poor economic policy in 2010-2020.
    Not only was government austerity a poor policy, the combined austerity (which continues to this day) of our public and private sectors is a blight on Britain’s economy. We are, across sectors, regions, even age groups, a nation of asset sweaters who when faced with the choice of investing or taking the cash will always take the cash. A nation custom-built never to go for bully’s special prize.
    Even if you accept the case for taking a maintenance holiday in 2010 (and I'm persuadable that was the least bad thing to do), the point about holidays is that they end. At some point (Conservative swagger after 2015? Post-Referendum chaos after 2016? Post-Covid shakeout?), it got embedded as a New Normal, with the consequences we now see.

    As for Reeves, the solution seems bound to look like this:

    1 As much extra tax as she thinks she can get away with.
    2 As much pressure on revenue spending as is possible without things collapsing.
    3 As much growth in the capital spend as borrowing and leverage will allow.

    That this is going to be a tricky balance rather gives lie to the "black hole? what black hole?" we hear from some of the opposition. Political success or failure will depend on how far good news on point 3 will cover bad news on points 1 and 2.
  • The legitimate criticism of Lord Sugar is not that he spoke common or sold rubbish but that despite often achieving near-monopoly status with several products, none of it lasted. There was no research, development or investment.

    Lord Sugar's main failure was not foreseeing how suddenly the late-70s technology in his products would become obsolete. Mind you he was far from alone in that. Multiple computer companies crashed out because they did not understand computers become obsolete quickly when newer technology arrives and it's better you are the one doing the obsoleting, not the competition.

    He was still trying to sell machines with 1980 specifications like 4-colour CGA graphics, beeper sound and a text based OS in 1989, when half of Britain's kids had an Amiga in their bedroom that was three times quicker, could do 4096 colours, quad-channel stereo sound and had a multi-tasking graphical OS.

    Nobody can re-package or market their way around that level of technical debt.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    Black History Month.

    I pay Google £10.99 for Youtube Music. So I can listen to music I like and stream on demand.

    On my home feed I now have, above Mixed for You, Forgotten Favourites and Your Music Videos a chunk of "Celebrating Black British Music" which I haven't asked for, is all crap rap and urban music that I have zero interest in and can't get rid of. It's just forced into my feed. I have to scroll past it each and every time to get to what I want. I presume I now have to put up with if for the rest of the month. And I am paying for this service!!

    I will vote for Kemi Badenoch. She might not win but she will launch a sustained assault against Wokery that's well overdue, and that's worth voting for.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,775
    Photo du jour


  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,861
    Badenoch may well be what Steve Richards calls a teacher-leader. Like Blair.

    Explaining things to the public, taking them through the logic of the answers to policy problems. Guiding them towards the answers.



  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,832

    I'm topping up on Badenoch.

    If it was a boxing match the referee would stop the fight.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,845

    The legitimate criticism of Lord Sugar is not that he spoke common or sold rubbish but that despite often achieving near-monopoly status with several products, none of it lasted. There was no research, development or investment.

    Lord Sugar's main failure was not foreseeing how suddenly the late-70s technology in his products would become obsolete. Mind you he was far from alone in that. Multiple computer companies crashed out because they did not understand computers become obsolete quickly when newer technology arrives and it's better you are the one doing the obsoleting, not the competition.

    He was still trying to sell machines with 1980 specifications like 4-colour CGA graphics, beeper sound and a text based OS in 1989, when half of Britain's kids had an Amiga in their bedroom that was three times quicker, could do 4096 colours, quad-channel stereo sound and had a multi-tasking graphical OS.

    Nobody can re-package or market their way around that level of technical debt.
    I recently discovered that some important kit of ours runs OS/2 to this day. And there was me thinking trying to boot up my old AtariST was retro...
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,847

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down "I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    Not wanting to make any excuses for the appalling behaviour of the cyclists which was indeed appalling and I assume very scary, but if it was a narrow road then the cyclists were behaving according to the highway code and in the advised manner for safety. In fact if it had been a single cyclist the code advising them to take up the whole lane:

    Rule 213: On narrow sections of road, on quiet roads or streets, at road junctions and in slower-moving traffic, cyclists may sometimes ride in the centre of the lane, rather than towards the side of the road. It can be safer for groups of cyclists to ride two abreast in these situations. Allow them to do so for their own safety, to ensure they can see and be seen. Cyclists are also advised to ride at least a door’s width or 1.0m from parked cars for their own safety.

    Only in the case of a wider roads are they advised to move from 2 abreast to single file:

    Rule 66: Be considerate of the needs of other road users when riding in groups. You can ride two abreast and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Be aware of drivers behind you, and allow them to overtake (e.g. by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so.

    If you cycle and you are on a road where a car can physically overtake a single cyclist but not a pair of cyclists then really it is still too narrow to overtake a single cyclist also. You will be too close for safety. Hence the advice now for cyclists in these situations to fill the road if by themselves or cycle two abreast if in pairs.

    if the road is wider then cyclists can cycle in pairs, but if a car comes up behind and it is safe to overtake the cyclists should revert to single file.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,861
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    2m
    Kemi Badenoch is not actually telling the audience everything they want to hear.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,775

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down " I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    What theoldpolitics was attempting to explain was that riding two abreast reduces the time it takes to overtake cyclists, and is therefore safer than riding single file.

    If it was physically impossible to overtake the cyclists when they were riding two abreast, it is likely that she would have been unable to pass them safely (leaving a 1.5m gap) even if they were riding single file.

    The response of the cyclist would not be covered by the Highway Code. The Public Order Act?
    Yes.

    If one treats a cyclist as the width of a car it is possible to overtake on this road quite comfortably, but not overtaking the width of two cars. The Police believed she was perfectly entitled to use her horn in a non aggressive manner.
    I don't think the cyclists were doing anything technically wrong by riding two abreast, and nor was your wife by using the horn. Obviously the cyclist's response is an offence; I'd have just ignored her.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225

    Badenoch: "If we need to leave the ECHR to control immigration then we should leave it but it's not a silver bullet and it's not even the most radical thing we could do."

    She's taking Jenrick and his ideas completely apart.
    I'm only dipping in and out of tihs whole race, but sometimes if feels like some Tory members reeact against whomever is perceived to be the favourite, so you can get a weird thing where performing well can end up being a bad thing somehow, if the other can present them as somehow establishment backed (party members kive ti vote for establishment figures who can make believe they are anti-establishment).
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,845
    AnneJGP said:

    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    The grief that Labour are suffering is entirely of their own making. The creating of a fantasy black hole was an own goal of epic proportions.
    I doubt Reeves will still be there in 12 months time.

    The new Labour government is making some of the mistakes the Cameron government made when it took power, without causing any substantial political problems for them.
    Not entirely fantasy.

    Repair bill for crumbling NHS buildings in England soars to almost £14bn
    NHS Providers chief says 'vital bits of the NHS are literally falling apart after years of underinvestment’

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/oct/17/repair-bill-for-crumbling-nhs-buildings-soars-to-almost-14bn
    The cost of repairing crumbling NHS buildings has soared to almost £14bn, prompting warnings that patients and staff are at risk from falling roofs and faulty equipment.

    The repair bill faced by the health service to make its estate fit for purpose has more than trebled from £4.5bn in 2012-13 to £13.8bn last year, according to NHS England data.

    The latest bill means that, for the first time since records began, it would cost the NHS more to eradicate its maintenance backlog than the £13.6bn it spends on running its entire estate...

    Part of the problem is that buildings are built for the known state of the art at that time, and state of the art develops leaving the buildings behind, as it were.

    Good evening everyone.
    I assumed they were built to last about as long as their PFI obligations.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,411
    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down " I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    What theoldpolitics was attempting to explain was that riding two abreast reduces the time it takes to overtake cyclists, and is therefore safer than riding single file.

    If it was physically impossible to overtake the cyclists when they were riding two abreast, it is likely that she would have been unable to pass them safely (leaving a 1.5m gap) even if they were riding single file.

    The response of the cyclist would not be covered by the Highway Code. The Public Order Act?
    Threatening Behaviour or Common Assault or similar.

    We have a huge range of offences that could potentially cover it, but she would have needed footage or an independent witness.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225

    Andy_JS said:

    Chris Chope.

    "Kemi Badenoch too ‘preoccupied with her children’ to lead, says MP
    Sir Christopher Chope, who is supporting Robert Jenrick, her rival in the Tory leadership race, has been urged to apologise and branded a ‘dinosaur’"

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/tory-mp-christopher-chope-kemi-badenoch-children-3lv2rj3wl

    He's the hero who doesn't approve of and filibusters Private Member's Bills, even for valiant causes, unless the private member is a friend of his.
    Yes, the mask drops when that happens, making a mockery of the ostensible principle he presents.

    Saw one comment about the distinction being about raising younger vs older children, but no one really seems to buy that - even Guido, who has been ramping Jenrick, called it a misstep.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,832

    Badenoch may well be what Steve Richards calls a teacher-leader. Like Blair.

    Explaining things to the public, taking them through the logic of the answers to policy problems. Guiding them towards the answers.

    The way she's approaching the ECHR question is very much like that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    2m
    Kemi Badenoch is not actually telling the audience everything they want to hear.

    She's not going full Kinnock is she?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225

    I'm topping up on Badenoch.

    If it was a boxing match the referee would stop the fight.
    If it's boxing surely that would depend on if they had been slipped a few bob or not, or is that saved for the scorers only?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,581
    edited October 17
    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down "I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    Not wanting to make any excuses for the appalling behaviour of the cyclists which was indeed appalling and I assume very scary, but if it was a narrow road then the cyclists were behaving according to the highway code and in the advised manner for safety. In fact if it had been a single cyclist the code advising them to take up the whole lane:

    Rule 213: On narrow sections of road, on quiet roads or streets, at road junctions and in slower-moving traffic, cyclists may sometimes ride in the centre of the lane, rather than towards the side of the road. It can be safer for groups of cyclists to ride two abreast in these situations. Allow them to do so for their own safety, to ensure they can see and be seen. Cyclists are also advised to ride at least a door’s width or 1.0m from parked cars for their own safety.

    Only in the case of a wider roads are they advised to move from 2 abreast to single file:

    Rule 66: Be considerate of the needs of other road users when riding in groups. You can ride two abreast and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Be aware of drivers behind you, and allow them to overtake (e.g. by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so.

    If you cycle and you are on a road where a car can physically overtake a single cyclist but not a pair of cyclists then really it is still too narrow to overtake a single cyclist also. You will be too close for safety. Hence the advice now for cyclists in these situations to fill the road if by themselves or cycle two abreast if in pairs.

    if the road is wider then cyclists can cycle in pairs, but if a car comes up behind and it is safe to overtake the cyclists should revert to single file.
    Yes the minimum overtaking width is six feet, as I understand it. Effectively the width of a whole car. I.e. if they isn’t room to overtake a car there isn’t room to overtake a bike. That’s the way I drive and always think of it anyway.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,476

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down "I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    Their manners are worse than White Van Man.
    I should note that while crossing a road, in traffic, a white van man stopped and waved us across.

    The taxi driver behind hooted at him.

    White man van got out and gave the taxi driver what for.

    This did reveal he was on his phone at the time...
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,845

    She's doing very well. Clearly thought through answers.

    Tory party would be quite literally mad not to choose Kemi over Jenrick.

    It seems to me - as a somewhat distant observer - that picking anyone over Jenrick would be a good plan. Kemi - I just don't get the appeal. But Jenrick I can feel the active magnetic rejection.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,888
    edited October 17
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down "I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    Their manners are worse than White Van Man.
    I should note that while crossing a road, in traffic, a white van man stopped and waved us across.

    The taxi driver behind hooted at him.

    White man van got out and gave the taxi driver what for.

    This did reveal he was on his phone at the time...
    The guy who came a little too close to me as I was cycling earlier today was not a white van man.

    He was a grey van man.
  • Badenoch may well be what Steve Richards calls a teacher-leader. Like Blair.

    Explaining things to the public, taking them through the logic of the answers to policy problems. Guiding them towards the answers.

    The way she's approaching the ECHR question is very much like that.
    I remember her explaining about the litter boxes in schools. Apparently - like Truss - she is incredibly clever and even better at hiding the fact from the public
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Robert Jenrick is very wooden. Not sure how he's made it as an MP never mind a contender for leader of the opposition.

    Well, Starmer made it to the top being wooden.
    Very particular circumstances though. He followed a leader who was useless in all respects but powerfully emotive (for his target audience anyway). The next Tory leader will follow Sunak who was just useless.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    edited October 17
    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down "I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    Not wanting to make any excuses for the appalling behaviour of the cyclists which was indeed appalling and I assume very scary, but if it was a narrow road then the cyclists were behaving according to the highway code and in the advised manner for safety. In fact if it had been a single cyclist the code advising them to take up the whole lane:

    Rule 213: On narrow sections of road, on quiet roads or streets, at road junctions and in slower-moving traffic, cyclists may sometimes ride in the centre of the lane, rather than towards the side of the road. It can be safer for groups of cyclists to ride two abreast in these situations. Allow them to do so for their own safety, to ensure they can see and be seen. Cyclists are also advised to ride at least a door’s width or 1.0m from parked cars for their own safety.

    Only in the case of a wider roads are they advised to move from 2 abreast to single file:

    Rule 66: Be considerate of the needs of other road users when riding in groups. You can ride two abreast and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Be aware of drivers behind you, and allow them to overtake (e.g. by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so.

    If you cycle and you are on a road where a car can physically overtake a single cyclist but not a pair of cyclists then really it is still too narrow to overtake a single cyclist also. You will be too close for safety. Hence the advice now for cyclists in these situations to fill the road if by themselves or cycle two abreast if in pairs.

    if the road is wider then cyclists can cycle in pairs, but if a car comes up behind and it is safe to overtake the cyclists should revert to single file.
    Your final paragraph indeed sums up the road conditions. The one cyclist was quite content to do so.
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down " I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    What theoldpolitics was attempting to explain was that riding two abreast reduces the time it takes to overtake cyclists, and is therefore safer than riding single file.

    If it was physically impossible to overtake the cyclists when they were riding two abreast, it is likely that she would have been unable to pass them safely (leaving a 1.5m gap) even if they were riding single file.

    The response of the cyclist would not be covered by the Highway Code. The Public Order Act?
    Yes.

    If one treats a cyclist as the width of a car it is possible to overtake on this road quite comfortably, but not overtaking the width of two cars. The Police believed she was perfectly entitled to use her horn in a non aggressive manner.
    I don't think the cyclists were doing anything technically wrong by riding two abreast, and nor was your wife by using the horn. Obviously the cyclist's response is an offence; I'd have just ignored her.
    Check out the road from Leon's three little words locator "jubilant.varieties.node" You will note by the width of the road and it's length the safest way to pass would be as your earlier final paragraph suggested, the cyclists temporarily fall into a tandem formation. It would be a basic courtesy.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,775

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down " I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    What theoldpolitics was attempting to explain was that riding two abreast reduces the time it takes to overtake cyclists, and is therefore safer than riding single file.

    If it was physically impossible to overtake the cyclists when they were riding two abreast, it is likely that she would have been unable to pass them safely (leaving a 1.5m gap) even if they were riding single file.

    The response of the cyclist would not be covered by the Highway Code. The Public Order Act?
    I have a rule of thumb about this. People who are aggressive cyclists will also be aggressive pedestrians. And aggressive drivers. People do not change their character just because they are on a different mode of transport.

    It's also about considerations of others. If you're driving in the overtaking lane of a dual carriageway and not actually overtaking, perhaps consider allowing the faster traffic past. If you are driving a slow vehicle - say, a tractor - along the road, consider pulling in occasionally to allow people behind past. The same is true for cyclists: if you have been holding someone up for a while, consider how you can make it easy for them to pass you.

    I do this fairly often. It's also a good part of road awareness to know there is a vehicle around you.

    Of course, you cannot do it all the time, because you need to make progress. And it is often not possible to safely let someone past. But it's a good idea to do it when you can.
    Yep. When we're touring, I'll typically cycle at 45 degrees behind my partner (she gets very nervous on busy roads) so that we can talk but we're not taking up the full width of the carriageway, allowing safe overtakes.

    We always pull into laybys (there should be more of them!) if we're causing a queue. In cities I have a positive overtake ratio so just sit in the middle of the lane unless it's a steep hill.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    nico679 said:

    More disgusting comments from the stain on humanity today . Out and out racism , then blaming Ukraine for the war and then slagging off Poland for not stopping Hitler from invading .

    45-50% of Americans love him and everything he says. Remarkable stuff really.

    Well, we shall know in a few weeks to a few months (since if he loses it will take months of challenges to resolve) if we are to be stuck with him.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,915
    maxh said:

    Nigelb said:

    The other point, of course, is that a decade and a half of Tory government crushed infrastructure investment while world interest rates were historically low.

    Making up for that now is a significantly harder task.

    I don't understand why this doesn't get hung around the Tories' necks far more than it does. If investment is the answer, which it seems everyone agrees with, then austerity was criminally poor economic policy in 2010-2020.
    Think it was a good policy in 2010, but a bad one by 2014, exact turning point up for debate.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,755

    The grief that Labour are suffering is entirely of their own making. The creating of a fantasy black hole was an own goal of epic proportions.
    I doubt Reeves will still be there in 12 months time.

    Interesting. Fancy pricing that prediction up?
    No. A week is a long time in politics.what is the average tenure of the last few chancellor's?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,183
    edited October 17
    No idea how well selected that audience was, but overwhelming support for Kemi. (and, I get the sense that the GB News presenters aren't happy about that).
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,832
    Badenoch wins the show of hands hands down.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,957
    Jenrick bombed? Just rejoice at that news.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225

    Badenoch on Farage: "We are a broad church but if somebody says that they want to burn your church down, you don't let them in."

    It's a decent line. I do get there is a need to win over potential or actual floaters to Reform, but certain factions of the right actively want to bend over for them, and that doesn't seem to tackle the issue in a manner designed to project strength.

    What's Jenrick's plan with Farage?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    tlg86 said:

    No idea how well selected that audience was, but overwhelming support for Kemi. (and, I get the sense that the GB News presenters aren't happy about that).

    Given how malleable Jenrick has been (that might well be part of the appeal) I don't get why someone would be so committed to him over any other options to get that upset if he were not to win, it's not as though he represents a specific ideological position within the party with consistency which they should therefore worry will get ignored.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,581

    Badenoch wins the show of hands hands down.

    Hands up hands down?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,775

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down "I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    Not wanting to make any excuses for the appalling behaviour of the cyclists which was indeed appalling and I assume very scary, but if it was a narrow road then the cyclists were behaving according to the highway code and in the advised manner for safety. In fact if it had been a single cyclist the code advising them to take up the whole lane:

    Rule 213: On narrow sections of road, on quiet roads or streets, at road junctions and in slower-moving traffic, cyclists may sometimes ride in the centre of the lane, rather than towards the side of the road. It can be safer for groups of cyclists to ride two abreast in these situations. Allow them to do so for their own safety, to ensure they can see and be seen. Cyclists are also advised to ride at least a door’s width or 1.0m from parked cars for their own safety.

    Only in the case of a wider roads are they advised to move from 2 abreast to single file:

    Rule 66: Be considerate of the needs of other road users when riding in groups. You can ride two abreast and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Be aware of drivers behind you, and allow them to overtake (e.g. by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so.

    If you cycle and you are on a road where a car can physically overtake a single cyclist but not a pair of cyclists then really it is still too narrow to overtake a single cyclist also. You will be too close for safety. Hence the advice now for cyclists in these situations to fill the road if by themselves or cycle two abreast if in pairs.

    if the road is wider then cyclists can cycle in pairs, but if a car comes up behind and it is safe to overtake the cyclists should revert to single file.
    Your final paragraph indeed sums up the road conditions. The one cyclist was quite content to do so.
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down " I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    What theoldpolitics was attempting to explain was that riding two abreast reduces the time it takes to overtake cyclists, and is therefore safer than riding single file.

    If it was physically impossible to overtake the cyclists when they were riding two abreast, it is likely that she would have been unable to pass them safely (leaving a 1.5m gap) even if they were riding single file.

    The response of the cyclist would not be covered by the Highway Code. The Public Order Act?
    Yes.

    If one treats a cyclist as the width of a car it is possible to overtake on this road quite comfortably, but not overtaking the width of two cars. The Police believed she was perfectly entitled to use her horn in a non aggressive manner.
    I don't think the cyclists were doing anything technically wrong by riding two abreast, and nor was your wife by using the horn. Obviously the cyclist's response is an offence; I'd have just ignored her.
    Check out the road from Leon's three little words locator "jubilant.varieties.node" You will note by the width of the road and it's length the safest way to pass would be as your earlier final paragraph suggested, the cyclists temporarily fall into a tandem formation. It would be a basic courtesy.
    Fair enough - but there remains no obligation for the cyclist to do so. The only other thing is that the cyclist might not have realised your wife was trying to pass safely, and just expected a close pass anyway. The correct response to the horn would've been to shift over, having realised, or ignore.
  • News from the US

    Following on Marist yesterday we have two more nat pollsters with good track records showing Harris lead out to 4%. One of them - TIPP - are Rep-aligned but serious pollsters. By contrast Fox News - who are not Rep voodoo but rather a tandem of Rep/Dem pollsters - put Trump ahead by 2%. Good news for Trump - except they also put him 6% down in the battleground states. So that's a reverse of 2016 - winning the popular vote by 2% but getting thumped in the electoral college. I wouldn't hold you breath on that happening.

    Mitchell who are serious pollsters in Michigan have that state still tied and unchanged in the last two weeks. GOTV then becomes all important. Meanwhile, Mr Trump has cancelled his third major interview in the course of a week. Some people might think his team are trying to hide him. But courage my friends for JD Vance stands ready to take over once the election is done
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,176
    edited October 17
    kle4 said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    2m
    Kemi Badenoch is not actually telling the audience everything they want to hear.

    She's not going full Kinnock is she?
    It doesn't matter. This will be done on vibes. Jenrick's schtick is anti-immigration. Kemi's is anti-woke. The candidate that tickles the party's tonsils the most will win. From observation here, especially the reactions in the first day of JvB but reinforced by PB's reaction tonight, Kemi appeals to most and my betting reflects this.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,059
    RobD said:

    Jenrick bombed? Just rejoice at that news.

    If it’s anything like Truss/Sunak after the debates that means a hands down Jenrick win.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225

    So that's a reverse of 2016 - winning the popular vote by 2% but getting thumped in the electoral college. I wouldn't hold you breath on that happening.

    Does sound like a remarkable outcome were it to occur. Trump could go absolutely ballistic, given he's gone so far in his ramblings to claim he won the popular vote previously, if he actually did it for a change but still lost.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,411

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down "I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    Not wanting to make any excuses for the appalling behaviour of the cyclists which was indeed appalling and I assume very scary, but if it was a narrow road then the cyclists were behaving according to the highway code and in the advised manner for safety. In fact if it had been a single cyclist the code advising them to take up the whole lane:

    Rule 213: On narrow sections of road, on quiet roads or streets, at road junctions and in slower-moving traffic, cyclists may sometimes ride in the centre of the lane, rather than towards the side of the road. It can be safer for groups of cyclists to ride two abreast in these situations. Allow them to do so for their own safety, to ensure they can see and be seen. Cyclists are also advised to ride at least a door’s width or 1.0m from parked cars for their own safety.

    Only in the case of a wider roads are they advised to move from 2 abreast to single file:

    Rule 66: Be considerate of the needs of other road users when riding in groups. You can ride two abreast and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Be aware of drivers behind you, and allow them to overtake (e.g. by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so.

    If you cycle and you are on a road where a car can physically overtake a single cyclist but not a pair of cyclists then really it is still too narrow to overtake a single cyclist also. You will be too close for safety. Hence the advice now for cyclists in these situations to fill the road if by themselves or cycle two abreast if in pairs.

    if the road is wider then cyclists can cycle in pairs, but if a car comes up behind and it is safe to overtake the cyclists should revert to single file.
    Yes the minimum overtaking width is six feet, as I understand it. Effectively the width of a whole car. I.e. if they isn’t room to overtake a car there isn’t room to overtake a bike. That’s the way I drive and always think of it anyway.
    I think the issue there on a narrowish country road would be the need for the people riding the cycles to control the behaviour of a driver, and not leave any chance that the driver would try and squeeze through dangerously.

    A lot of drivers do not know how to judge appropriate overtaking spaces, or are willing to risk others' safety in order to "get in front NOW".

    From the outside there is no way of knowing whether a particular driver is careful and considerate, or not.

    And we are advised to cycle or drive defensively. So we do.

    That doesn't justify the reaction of course, which is absolutely not acceptable and suitable for a police report. I feel that they would be well aware of her presence (I would be), and hooting (depending how far behind he vehicle was) may or may not have been appropriate - I can't judge from the account. These are very similar considerations to a cyclist approaching behind pedestrians on a shared path.

    Personally I don't think that following for half a mile is very much; it's only 80 or 90s at road cyclist training speed, and the delay would be perhaps 30-45s over the speed the car would otherwise be making.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449

    Badenoch may well be what Steve Richards calls a teacher-leader. Like Blair.

    Explaining things to the public, taking them through the logic of the answers to policy problems. Guiding them towards the answers.



    More like Catherine Tate's stroppy school girl.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,847
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down "I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    Their manners are worse than White Van Man.
    I should note that while crossing a road, in traffic, a white van man stopped and waved us across.

    The taxi driver behind hooted at him.

    White man van got out and gave the taxi driver what for.

    This did reveal he was on his phone at the time...
    He was just setting you for an easy kill. Extra points if you can do that, particularly as you don't get many nuns pushing prams over zebra crossings these days for the top bonus points.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,581
    Eabhal said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down "I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    Not wanting to make any excuses for the appalling behaviour of the cyclists which was indeed appalling and I assume very scary, but if it was a narrow road then the cyclists were behaving according to the highway code and in the advised manner for safety. In fact if it had been a single cyclist the code advising them to take up the whole lane:

    Rule 213: On narrow sections of road, on quiet roads or streets, at road junctions and in slower-moving traffic, cyclists may sometimes ride in the centre of the lane, rather than towards the side of the road. It can be safer for groups of cyclists to ride two abreast in these situations. Allow them to do so for their own safety, to ensure they can see and be seen. Cyclists are also advised to ride at least a door’s width or 1.0m from parked cars for their own safety.

    Only in the case of a wider roads are they advised to move from 2 abreast to single file:

    Rule 66: Be considerate of the needs of other road users when riding in groups. You can ride two abreast and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Be aware of drivers behind you, and allow them to overtake (e.g. by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so.

    If you cycle and you are on a road where a car can physically overtake a single cyclist but not a pair of cyclists then really it is still too narrow to overtake a single cyclist also. You will be too close for safety. Hence the advice now for cyclists in these situations to fill the road if by themselves or cycle two abreast if in pairs.

    if the road is wider then cyclists can cycle in pairs, but if a car comes up behind and it is safe to overtake the cyclists should revert to single file.
    Your final paragraph indeed sums up the road conditions. The one cyclist was quite content to do so.
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have been in London for 48 hours working with a group of disabled people on a theatre trip.

    So far, I’ve had to physically block six cyclists who ran a red light and then tried to cut straight across the front of a wheelchair user which would have caused a crash.

    WTF London cyclists? Do you have to be utter Tristram Hunts?

    Lycra warriors are Stewards of the Bar throughout the UK.

    My wife has just exchanged her stunning silver with a red soft top Mercedes cabriolet with a private plate that spells her name in full, for something very much more demure and less offensive to cyclists after she was threatened with f-bombs, c- bombs and a 28" Campagnolo front wheel thrust into her face through the open window of her car for having the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast on a moderately narrow road.

    The angry one was clearly not a Conservative voter!
    Is "had the temerity to warn them of her presence as they rode two abreast" a euphemism for "hooted at them to stop their completley legal cycling because she wasn't prepared to wait for a safe place to overtake"?

    If you're overtaking legally and safely it is, of course, better for the motorist if the cyclists are two abreast than if they aren't, for reasons which become clear once you stop and think.
    I did explain the road was too narrow to overtake when cyclists were two abreast.

    The police took the issue extremely seriously. Having followed and unable to pass for half a mile and assuming they were unaware of her presence she made them aware with a single blast on the horn. The one rider was fine but the older guy reeled around and stopped the car. His response was to call my wife a "f****** c***" and thrust his front wheel through the open window into her face, the top was down " I've got this on camera you f****** c***". The c*** did indeed f*** off when she said "so have I". If you consider that to be a suitable response to a lone woman making two cyclists aware of the presence of a motor vehicle you need to revisit the Highway Code and several other codes.

    I f***** despise Lycra cyclists.
    What theoldpolitics was attempting to explain was that riding two abreast reduces the time it takes to overtake cyclists, and is therefore safer than riding single file.

    If it was physically impossible to overtake the cyclists when they were riding two abreast, it is likely that she would have been unable to pass them safely (leaving a 1.5m gap) even if they were riding single file.

    The response of the cyclist would not be covered by the Highway Code. The Public Order Act?
    Yes.

    If one treats a cyclist as the width of a car it is possible to overtake on this road quite comfortably, but not overtaking the width of two cars. The Police believed she was perfectly entitled to use her horn in a non aggressive manner.
    I don't think the cyclists were doing anything technically wrong by riding two abreast, and nor was your wife by using the horn. Obviously the cyclist's response is an offence; I'd have just ignored her.
    Check out the road from Leon's three little words locator "jubilant.varieties.node" You will note by the width of the road and it's length the safest way to pass would be as your earlier final paragraph suggested, the cyclists temporarily fall into a tandem formation. It would be a basic courtesy.
    Fair enough - but there remains no obligation for the cyclist to do so. The only other thing is that the cyclist might not have realised your wife was trying to pass safely, and just expected a close pass anyway. The correct response to the horn would've been to shift over, having realised, or ignore.
    Most drivers fail to give the requisite six feet (car width) passing space in my experience. I don’t think painted cycle lanes (which we have a lot of in London) help matters either as I reckon motorists either consciously or subconsciously assume they can pass if the cyclist is in the cycle lane.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    2m
    Kemi Badenoch is not actually telling the audience everything they want to hear.

    She's not going full Kinnock is she?
    It doesn't matter. This will be done on vibes. Jenrick's schtick is anti-immigration. Kemi's is anti-woke. The candidate that tickles the party's tonsils the most will win. From observation here, especially the reactions in the first day of JvB but reinforced by PB's reaction tonight, Kemi appeals to most and my betting reflects this.
    Seems to me if you have to choose between anti-immigration and anti-woke as your main schtick you might as well go with the latter, since that just involved opining on various cultural matters and hopefully selecting a winning argument, and you cannot even do anything about the former out of government so you can always just fall back on saying the government is getting it wrong (no matter what happens) without beign too specific.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,230

    Black History Month.

    I pay Google £10.99 for Youtube Music. So I can listen to music I like and stream on demand.

    On my home feed I now have, above Mixed for You, Forgotten Favourites and Your Music Videos a chunk of "Celebrating Black British Music" which I haven't asked for, is all crap rap and urban music that I have zero interest in and can't get rid of. It's just forced into my feed. I have to scroll past it each and every time to get to what I want. I presume I now have to put up with if for the rest of the month. And I am paying for this service!!

    I will vote for Kemi Badenoch. She might not win but she will launch a sustained assault against Wokery that's well overdue, and that's worth voting for.

    Pleased to hear that CR. Surprised you took so long!

    She's impressive. Rather that being taken in by the deliberate misrepresentations of her, listen to her first hand - a few interviews are available on podcasts, and that excellent commons speech versus Rayner. Resolute, principled, unwavering, courageous - just what the party needs to tackle that twat Starmer.

    Usually a LD voter, I'd very possibly vote Conservative with Badenoch as leader, but would never do so if under Jenrick.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,674
    Badenoch comes across as being more personable by a country mile.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,176
    Andy_JS said:
    ...every accusation is a confession... :)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,832
    Andy_JS said:
    I like the way the Guardian announces "This is what we're up against" just under the tagline about Badenoch and culture wars.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,744
    Patrick O’Flynn:
    Kemi was tonight’s winner … It’s hard not to regard her as unstoppable now.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,915
    Andy_JS said:
    Such little snow flakes.
  • However much certain PBers hate Kemi and Bob, surely even the loser would be a better choice than Rebecca Long-Bailey?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,230
    Badenoch now 1.47 on bf, Jenrick 3
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    geoffw said:

    Patrick O’Flynn:
    Kemi was tonight’s winner … It’s hard not to regard her as unstoppable now.

    As big a certainty as Cleverly getting to the final two?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,744
    kle4 said:

    geoffw said:

    Patrick O’Flynn:
    Kemi was tonight’s winner … It’s hard not to regard her as unstoppable now.

    As big a certainty as Cleverly getting to the final two?
    Completely different

  • kle4 said:

    geoffw said:

    Patrick O’Flynn:
    Kemi was tonight’s winner … It’s hard not to regard her as unstoppable now.

    As big a certainty as Cleverly getting to the final two?
    Bob can't win this one by getting Gav to call up five clueless Con members
This discussion has been closed.