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The politics of masculinity  – politicalbetting.com

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  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Nigelb said:

    A bit awks for his Senate run.

    New: Nearly 40% of all affordable housing awards Larry Hogan approved as governor went to listed clients of his real estate firm, from which he did not divest. Hogan is the first governor in MD history to have made millions of dollars while in office.
    https://x.com/EricCortellessa/status/1844360586634953066

    On the other hand, it makes him a bit more on brand with Trump’s GOP.

    Spiro Agnew says "Yo!"
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,036

    kinabalu said:

    Today’s SpaceX spectacle shows the hugely massive positive side of Elon Musk. Park the politics and look at the vision thing. He imagines a future to solve the problems of today considered unsolvable. He looks at established engineering things, asks why and gets out a blank sheet of paper.

    The largest rocket ever built. Made from Stainless Steel which the entire rocket science universe thought was a crazy idea. With 33 engines which previously was a recipe for big bangs and little else. Built to be wholly and quickly reusable which simply is impossible surely as nobody has even attempted it. With the rocket caught by its own landing having pulled off the Return to Laugh Site landing which put literal fear into steely eyed missile men like John Young when suggested previously.

    Oh yeah. And of course the thing catching the booster is called Mecha Zilla. Why wouldn’t it be.

    The road into the cosmos is open. We’re going back to the moon. We’re going to Mars. Boeing and SLS can just stop embarrassing themselves.

    Will rank amongst one of humanities greatest achievements. Many on here do dismiss him because he trolls on twitter, they think he is a fool and talk about how much twitter has lost in value but forget how much his total net worth just keeps growing and growing. His net worth is from companies that he has made (he didn't make Tesla but he transformed it from one of many battery car concept companies to one of the richest companies in the world from a few million investment), SpaceX is all his.
    He is one of the pioneering humans alive today. But he can also be a total dick.
    Busting a gut to get Donald Trump back into power is way more than dickery. It's a crime against humanity. It's amazing how great intelligence and great stupidity can coexist in a single individual. Eg one of my teenage crushes, Bobby Fischer. A chess genius yet at the same time a softhead bigot and conspiracy theorist.
    Was he the one played by an attractive woman for a Netflix mini series? I think I saw his burial site in Iceland.
    Could be. I didn't see that.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,362
    The emergence of Tate, Trump etc can be explained by men being alienated from the dominant culture. It is cause and effect. Inevitably the 'progressives' will try and respond in the only way they know - stepping up the punishments and penalties for non compliance with the dominant culture (ie by turning 'misogyny' in to a terrorist matter), but this will most likely just embolden/escalate the forces of reaction, and perhaps also reveal the weakness of the state, and its ability to influence cultural attitudes.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,742
    Really interesting thread header, thanks. I find myself thinking a lot about the challenges of being a young man in today's society, being the father of a 15 year old boy. In many ways he faces a harder time than I did, growing up. Boys have given up some ground to girls, although a lot of it is about ceding advantages they shouldn't have had in the first place, or ending behaviour that probably wasn't that helpful to boys' long term welfare. Still, they are living in a society that cuts them less slack than it used to, and that is hard. Having said all this, boys remain a far bigger threat to girls' safety than vice versa (I also have two daughters, so this is something on my mind, too).
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,559
    edited October 13
    viewcode said:

    stodge said:

    xyzxyzxyz said:

    “"Very very strict on migration and asylum but never going to do evil stuff like deportation"

    Until they see as their only card after screwing the economy up.“

    20% of the working age population are economically inactive. Tighter unemployment and sickness benefits would replace immigrant labour and reduce the deficit.

    Can you still advertise abroad for labour at 80% of the domestic wage?

    The proportion economically inactive hasn't changed much in the last 15 years despite what is generally believed. As a number it has increased but so has the sizze of the overall workforce.

    The real problem, as we all know, is productivity and the truth is it is easier and cheaper to hire an extra pair of hands to do things the same old way rather than look at ways by which the process can be improved or streamlined jusing technology (perhaps).
    Aren't the two main drags on productivity in the UK poor infrastructure and training?

    Neither can easily be put right quickly, particularly infrastructure.
    IIRC, it's the large percentage of working age adults who are not in employment, and the large amount of retired people. The only method the Govt has to improve productivity and growth is to import people, lots of people. This in turn creates problems.
    Productivity is output per hour per worker. Importing people does not improve it unless those people are of higher productivity than the average in that UK.Your analysis is correct for economic output, but even that isn't worth anything if output per capita isn't increasing.

    Output = working age population * participation rate * employment rate * average hours per week * productivity

    Lots of moving parts, all look quite bad in the UK at the moment
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,847
    darkage said:

    The emergence of Tate, Trump etc can be explained by men being alienated from the dominant culture. It is cause and effect. Inevitably the 'progressives' will try and respond in the only way they know - stepping up the punishments and penalties for non compliance with the dominant culture (ie by turning 'misogyny' in to a terrorist matter), but this will most likely just embolden/escalate the forces of reaction, and perhaps also reveal the weakness of the state, and its ability to influence cultural attitudes.

    Will they ?
    Not at all evident from the discussion we’ve had on this thread.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,955
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    EU to table offshore asylum seeker detention centres, Starmer has to either do similar deals or watch the boat arrivals 10x as illegal immigrants all across Europe make their way to soft touch Britain.

    Scrapping the Rwanda scheme will be seen as the biggest failing of this government if the EU manages to get a consensus for offshore detention.

    Rwanda was an absurdly expensive stunt. In the first instance Sunak and Cleverly considered it hair-brained and unworkable. It was peak Johnson and Patel, and then Braverman got on board. That's all you need to know. Rwanda was simply ludicrous.

    You are more than welcome to criticise this Government on their handling of the small boats but trying to resell the Rwanda pup as anything but a pup is disingenuous.
    Scrapping Rwanda is one Starmer policy with positive polling. 44% approve vs 38% disapprove.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/political_party/Labour_Party

    But he has to deliver an alternative, or it won't stay that way for long.
    How much do you want to bet that immigration will be down this year from 2023?

    Well they’re policing the border rigorously today.

    After a day of driving, having left just after posting about the local hunters out shooting, I arrive at Calais Eurotunnel to two unnerving experiences.

    The first that I had written Dauphinoise instead of dauphinois for that most masculine of potato dishes in a post about masculinity.

    The second that after a suspicious series of questions by the British passport man about where I’d come from and why I’m travelling alone, I was taken aside for a security check and had to unpack the whole boot and lift the spare wheel cover, presumably just in case I was hiding an asylum seeker. Or a haul of drugs.
    Sigh - you put the asylum seekers under a layer of drugs. Everyone knows this…
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,847
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Today’s SpaceX spectacle shows the hugely massive positive side of Elon Musk. Park the politics and look at the vision thing. He imagines a future to solve the problems of today considered unsolvable. He looks at established engineering things, asks why and gets out a blank sheet of paper.

    The largest rocket ever built. Made from Stainless Steel which the entire rocket science universe thought was a crazy idea. With 33 engines which previously was a recipe for big bangs and little else. Built to be wholly and quickly reusable which simply is impossible surely as nobody has even attempted it. With the rocket caught by its own landing having pulled off the Return to Laugh Site landing which put literal fear into steely eyed missile men like John Young when suggested previously.

    Oh yeah. And of course the thing catching the booster is called Mecha Zilla. Why wouldn’t it be.

    The road into the cosmos is open. We’re going back to the moon. We’re going to Mars. Boeing and SLS can just stop embarrassing themselves.

    Will rank amongst one of humanities greatest achievements. Many on here do dismiss him because he trolls on twitter, they think he is a fool and talk about how much twitter has lost in value but forget how much his total net worth just keeps growing and growing. His net worth is from companies that he has made (he didn't make Tesla but he transformed it from one of many battery car concept companies to one of the richest companies in the world from a few million investment), SpaceX is all his.
    He is one of the pioneering humans alive today. But he can also be a total dick.
    Busting a gut to get Donald Trump back into power is way more than dickery. It's a crime against humanity. It's amazing how great intelligence and great stupidity can coexist in a single individual. Eg one of my teenage crushes, Bobby Fischer. A chess genius yet at the same time a softhead bigot and conspiracy theorist.
    Was he the one played by an attractive woman for a Netflix mini series? I think I saw his burial site in Iceland.
    Could be. I didn't see that.
    The Queen’s Gambit.
    Absurd, but absurdly entertaining.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,955

    Today’s SpaceX spectacle shows the hugely massive positive side of Elon Musk. Park the politics and look at the vision thing. He imagines a future to solve the problems of today considered unsolvable. He looks at established engineering things, asks why and gets out a blank sheet of paper.

    The largest rocket ever built. Made from Stainless Steel which the entire rocket science universe thought was a crazy idea. With 33 engines which previously was a recipe for big bangs and little else. Built to be wholly and quickly reusable which simply is impossible surely as nobody has even attempted it. With the rocket caught by its own landing having pulled off the Return to Laugh Site landing which put literal fear into steely eyed missile men like John Young when suggested previously.

    Oh yeah. And of course the thing catching the booster is called Mecha Zilla. Why wouldn’t it be.

    The road into the cosmos is open. We’re going back to the moon. We’re going to Mars. Boeing and SLS can just stop embarrassing themselves.

    Let us hope so but remember so far SpaceX has not been anywhere new, but has just developed better ways of doing what has been done for decades. It remains to be seen if this opens the door for pioneers, or is just the commoditisation of existing practice.
    The marginal cost of that whole fireworks show was $90 million dollars

    The booster was worth $60 million.

    A few assumptions - say 20 uses for the booster. So reuse of the booster brings the marginal cost to $40 million.

    More payload to orbit than a Saturn 5.

    For 50 times less money.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,742
    viewcode said:

    stodge said:

    xyzxyzxyz said:

    “"Very very strict on migration and asylum but never going to do evil stuff like deportation"

    Until they see as their only card after screwing the economy up.“

    20% of the working age population are economically inactive. Tighter unemployment and sickness benefits would replace immigrant labour and reduce the deficit.

    Can you still advertise abroad for labour at 80% of the domestic wage?

    The proportion economically inactive hasn't changed much in the last 15 years despite what is generally believed. As a number it has increased but so has the sizze of the overall workforce.

    The real problem, as we all know, is productivity and the truth is it is easier and cheaper to hire an extra pair of hands to do things the same old way rather than look at ways by which the process can be improved or streamlined jusing technology (perhaps).
    Aren't the two main drags on productivity in the UK poor infrastructure and training?

    Neither can easily be put right quickly, particularly infrastructure.
    IIRC, it's the large percentage of working age adults who are not in employment, and the large amount of retired people. The only method the Govt has to improve productivity and growth is to import people, lots of people. This in turn creates problems.
    Productivity is usually measured as output per hours worked, so having a lot of people not working doesn't reduce productivity. If anything it should increase it as the people not working would often have low productivity if they were working.
  • Today’s SpaceX spectacle shows the hugely massive positive side of Elon Musk. Park the politics and look at the vision thing. He imagines a future to solve the problems of today considered unsolvable. He looks at established engineering things, asks why and gets out a blank sheet of paper.

    The largest rocket ever built. Made from Stainless Steel which the entire rocket science universe thought was a crazy idea. With 33 engines which previously was a recipe for big bangs and little else. Built to be wholly and quickly reusable which simply is impossible surely as nobody has even attempted it. With the rocket caught by its own landing having pulled off the Return to Laugh Site landing which put literal fear into steely eyed missile men like John Young when suggested previously.

    Oh yeah. And of course the thing catching the booster is called Mecha Zilla. Why wouldn’t it be.

    The road into the cosmos is open. We’re going back to the moon. We’re going to Mars. Boeing and SLS can just stop embarrassing themselves.

    Let us hope so but remember so far SpaceX has not been anywhere new, but has just developed better ways of doing what has been done for decades. It remains to be seen if this opens the door for pioneers, or is just the commoditisation of existing practice.
    The marginal cost of that whole fireworks show was $90 million dollars

    The booster was worth $60 million.

    A few assumptions - say 20 uses for the booster. So reuse of the booster brings the marginal cost to $40 million.

    More payload to orbit than a Saturn 5.

    For 50 times less money.
    It's like saying the development of the Concorde had just developed better ways of flying over what the Wright Brother's achieved.
  • Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Today’s SpaceX spectacle shows the hugely massive positive side of Elon Musk. Park the politics and look at the vision thing. He imagines a future to solve the problems of today considered unsolvable. He looks at established engineering things, asks why and gets out a blank sheet of paper.

    The largest rocket ever built. Made from Stainless Steel which the entire rocket science universe thought was a crazy idea. With 33 engines which previously was a recipe for big bangs and little else. Built to be wholly and quickly reusable which simply is impossible surely as nobody has even attempted it. With the rocket caught by its own landing having pulled off the Return to Laugh Site landing which put literal fear into steely eyed missile men like John Young when suggested previously.

    Oh yeah. And of course the thing catching the booster is called Mecha Zilla. Why wouldn’t it be.

    The road into the cosmos is open. We’re going back to the moon. We’re going to Mars. Boeing and SLS can just stop embarrassing themselves.

    Will rank amongst one of humanities greatest achievements. Many on here do dismiss him because he trolls on twitter, they think he is a fool and talk about how much twitter has lost in value but forget how much his total net worth just keeps growing and growing. His net worth is from companies that he has made (he didn't make Tesla but he transformed it from one of many battery car concept companies to one of the richest companies in the world from a few million investment), SpaceX is all his.
    He is one of the pioneering humans alive today. But he can also be a total dick.
    Busting a gut to get Donald Trump back into power is way more than dickery. It's a crime against humanity. It's amazing how great intelligence and great stupidity can coexist in a single individual. Eg one of my teenage crushes, Bobby Fischer. A chess genius yet at the same time a softhead bigot and conspiracy theorist.
    Was he the one played by an attractive woman for a Netflix mini series? I think I saw his burial site in Iceland.
    Could be. I didn't see that.
    The Queen’s Gambit.
    Absurd, but absurdly entertaining.
    Definitely.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,967

    kinabalu said:

    Today’s SpaceX spectacle shows the hugely massive positive side of Elon Musk. Park the politics and look at the vision thing. He imagines a future to solve the problems of today considered unsolvable. He looks at established engineering things, asks why and gets out a blank sheet of paper.

    The largest rocket ever built. Made from Stainless Steel which the entire rocket science universe thought was a crazy idea. With 33 engines which previously was a recipe for big bangs and little else. Built to be wholly and quickly reusable which simply is impossible surely as nobody has even attempted it. With the rocket caught by its own landing having pulled off the Return to Laugh Site landing which put literal fear into steely eyed missile men like John Young when suggested previously.

    Oh yeah. And of course the thing catching the booster is called Mecha Zilla. Why wouldn’t it be.

    The road into the cosmos is open. We’re going back to the moon. We’re going to Mars. Boeing and SLS can just stop embarrassing themselves.

    Will rank amongst one of humanities greatest achievements. Many on here do dismiss him because he trolls on twitter, they think he is a fool and talk about how much twitter has lost in value but forget how much his total net worth just keeps growing and growing. His net worth is from companies that he has made (he didn't make Tesla but he transformed it from one of many battery car concept companies to one of the richest companies in the world from a few million investment), SpaceX is all his.
    He is one of the pioneering humans alive today. But he can also be a total dick.
    Busting a gut to get Donald Trump back into power is way more than dickery. It's a crime against humanity. It's amazing how great intelligence and great stupidity can coexist in a single individual. Eg one of my teenage crushes, Bobby Fischer. A chess genius yet at the same time a softhead bigot and conspiracy theorist.
    Was he the one played by an attractive woman for a Netflix mini series? I think I saw his burial site in Iceland.
    You're mixing up "The Queen's Gambit", a Netflix series starring Anya Taylor-Joy about a fictional female chess player, with the nonfictional male chess player Bobby Fischer.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,967

    Today’s SpaceX spectacle shows the hugely massive positive side of Elon Musk. Park the politics and look at the vision thing. He imagines a future to solve the problems of today considered unsolvable. He looks at established engineering things, asks why and gets out a blank sheet of paper.

    The largest rocket ever built. Made from Stainless Steel which the entire rocket science universe thought was a crazy idea. With 33 engines which previously was a recipe for big bangs and little else. Built to be wholly and quickly reusable which simply is impossible surely as nobody has even attempted it. With the rocket caught by its own landing having pulled off the Return to Laugh Site landing which put literal fear into steely eyed missile men like John Young when suggested previously.

    Oh yeah. And of course the thing catching the booster is called Mecha Zilla. Why wouldn’t it be.

    The road into the cosmos is open. We’re going back to the moon. We’re going to Mars. Boeing and SLS can just stop embarrassing themselves.

    Unfortunately that massive positive side of Elon Musk is outweighed by the traumatic depths of his negative side.
    He changed from being Henry Ford to being Henry Ford

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,446
    Never seen anything like the rocket which landed back at the launching pad today. Amazing.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    EU to table offshore asylum seeker detention centres, Starmer has to either do similar deals or watch the boat arrivals 10x as illegal immigrants all across Europe make their way to soft touch Britain.

    Scrapping the Rwanda scheme will be seen as the biggest failing of this government if the EU manages to get a consensus for offshore detention.

    Rwanda was an absurdly expensive stunt. In the first instance Sunak and Cleverly considered it hair-brained and unworkable. It was peak Johnson and Patel, and then Braverman got on board. That's all you need to know. Rwanda was simply ludicrous.

    You are more than welcome to criticise this Government on their handling of the small boats but trying to resell the Rwanda pup as anything but a pup is disingenuous.
    Scrapping Rwanda is one Starmer policy with positive polling. 44% approve vs 38% disapprove.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/political_party/Labour_Party

    But he has to deliver an alternative, or it won't stay that way for long.
    How much do you want to bet that immigration will be down this year from 2023?

    Well they’re policing the border rigorously today.

    After a day of driving, having left just after posting about the local hunters out shooting, I arrive at Calais Eurotunnel to two unnerving experiences.

    The first that I had written Dauphinoise instead of dauphinois for that most masculine of potato dishes in a post about masculinity.

    The second that after a suspicious series of questions by the British passport man about where I’d come from and why I’m travelling alone, I was taken aside for a security check and had to unpack the whole boot and lift the spare wheel cover, presumably just in case I was hiding an asylum seeker. Or a haul of drugs.
    You sure that was British Passport Control and not the French Language Police? A mis-gendered adjectif is a serious offence - they may not want you escaping the country without facing your punishment.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,468
    viewcode said:

    Today’s SpaceX spectacle shows the hugely massive positive side of Elon Musk. Park the politics and look at the vision thing. He imagines a future to solve the problems of today considered unsolvable. He looks at established engineering things, asks why and gets out a blank sheet of paper.

    The largest rocket ever built. Made from Stainless Steel which the entire rocket science universe thought was a crazy idea. With 33 engines which previously was a recipe for big bangs and little else. Built to be wholly and quickly reusable which simply is impossible surely as nobody has even attempted it. With the rocket caught by its own landing having pulled off the Return to Laugh Site landing which put literal fear into steely eyed missile men like John Young when suggested previously.

    Oh yeah. And of course the thing catching the booster is called Mecha Zilla. Why wouldn’t it be.

    The road into the cosmos is open. We’re going back to the moon. We’re going to Mars. Boeing and SLS can just stop embarrassing themselves.

    Unfortunately that massive positive side of Elon Musk is outweighed by the traumatic depths of his negative side.
    He changed from being Henry Ford to being Henry Ford

    From Dagenham to Barking.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,722

    Today’s SpaceX spectacle shows the hugely massive positive side of Elon Musk. Park the politics and look at the vision thing. He imagines a future to solve the problems of today considered unsolvable. He looks at established engineering things, asks why and gets out a blank sheet of paper.

    The largest rocket ever built. Made from Stainless Steel which the entire rocket science universe thought was a crazy idea. With 33 engines which previously was a recipe for big bangs and little else. Built to be wholly and quickly reusable which simply is impossible surely as nobody has even attempted it. With the rocket caught by its own landing having pulled off the Return to Laugh Site landing which put literal fear into steely eyed missile men like John Young when suggested previously.

    Oh yeah. And of course the thing catching the booster is called Mecha Zilla. Why wouldn’t it be.

    The road into the cosmos is open. We’re going back to the moon. We’re going to Mars. Boeing and SLS can just stop embarrassing themselves.

    Let us hope so but remember so far SpaceX has not been anywhere new, but has just developed better ways of doing what has been done for decades. It remains to be seen if this opens the door for pioneers, or is just the commoditisation of existing practice.
    He's off to Mars possibly before the next general election.
    SpaceX will go to Mars as part of an existing NASA programme aiui.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,465
    Andy_JS said:

    Never seen anything like the rocket which landed back at the launching pad today. Amazing.

    I'm sure he got the idea from Tintin...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,967

    Today’s SpaceX spectacle shows the hugely massive positive side of Elon Musk. Park the politics and look at the vision thing. He imagines a future to solve the problems of today considered unsolvable. He looks at established engineering things, asks why and gets out a blank sheet of paper.

    The largest rocket ever built. Made from Stainless Steel which the entire rocket science universe thought was a crazy idea. With 33 engines which previously was a recipe for big bangs and little else. Built to be wholly and quickly reusable which simply is impossible surely as nobody has even attempted it. With the rocket caught by its own landing having pulled off the Return to Laugh Site landing which put literal fear into steely eyed missile men like John Young when suggested previously.

    Oh yeah. And of course the thing catching the booster is called Mecha Zilla. Why wouldn’t it be.

    The road into the cosmos is open. We’re going back to the moon. We’re going to Mars. Boeing and SLS can just stop embarrassing themselves.

    Let us hope so but remember so far SpaceX has not been anywhere new, but has just developed better ways of doing what has been done for decades. It remains to be seen if this opens the door for pioneers, or is just the commoditisation of existing practice.
    He's off to Mars possibly before the next general election.
    SpaceX will go to Mars as part of an existing NASA programme aiui.
    SpaceX will go to Mars the Moon as part of an existing NASA programme aiui.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_HLS
  • darkage said:

    This is an interesting header thanks @maxh. I agree with the basic ideas that are being set out.
    I think that in culture there was a wrong turn with masculinity about 5-10 years ago; men eagerly embraced many of the criticisms of them, but then got confused and lost confidence in themselves leading to self doubt and weakness. So instead of getting a kind of synthesis, instead we get an unwanted resurgence of the former situation, filling the vacuum.
    One thing I would question though is 'equal parenting' as something everyone should aspire to. I think you need to do what works best for you in your relationship and there is no perfect form of parenting.

    Jordan Peterson is an interesting phenomenon, in this respect. He fills an obviouz gap for affirmative masculinity, and even spiritual traditional ideas of gender, but in an over-reactive, and over-reactionary way.
    It's.partly just that there's very little else for young men, between the poles of Trumpist machismo, and Andrew Tate misogyny, on the one hand, and an feminist discourse on the other than can easily be interpreted as sometimes ignoring their interests, or anything that is specific about them.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,967
    Eabhal said:

    viewcode said:

    stodge said:

    xyzxyzxyz said:

    “"Very very strict on migration and asylum but never going to do evil stuff like deportation"

    Until they see as their only card after screwing the economy up.“

    20% of the working age population are economically inactive. Tighter unemployment and sickness benefits would replace immigrant labour and reduce the deficit.

    Can you still advertise abroad for labour at 80% of the domestic wage?

    The proportion economically inactive hasn't changed much in the last 15 years despite what is generally believed. As a number it has increased but so has the sizze of the overall workforce.

    The real problem, as we all know, is productivity and the truth is it is easier and cheaper to hire an extra pair of hands to do things the same old way rather than look at ways by which the process can be improved or streamlined jusing technology (perhaps).
    Aren't the two main drags on productivity in the UK poor infrastructure and training?

    Neither can easily be put right quickly, particularly infrastructure.
    IIRC, it's the large percentage of working age adults who are not in employment, and the large amount of retired people. The only method the Govt has to improve productivity and growth is to import people, lots of people. This in turn creates problems.
    Productivity is output per hour per worker. Importing people does not improve it unless those people are of higher productivity than the average in that UK.Your analysis is correct for economic output, but even that isn't worth anything if output per capita isn't increasing.

    Output = working age population * participation rate * employment rate * average hours per week * productivity

    Lots of moving parts, all look quite bad in the UK at the moment
    Importing people does not improve it unless those people are of higher productivity than the average in that UK

    The BiB is the crucial bit.
  • Sorry for the typos, as always, but still on a mobile.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,209
    darkage said:

    This is an interesting header thanks @maxh. I agree with the basic ideas that are being set out.
    I think that in culture there was a wrong turn with masculinity about 5-10 years ago; men eagerly embraced many of the criticisms of them, but then got confused and lost confidence in themselves leading to self doubt and weakness. So instead of getting a kind of synthesis, instead we get an unwanted resurgence of the former situation, filling the vacuum.
    One thing I would question though is 'equal parenting' as something everyone should aspire to. I think you need to do what works best for you in your relationship and there is no perfect form of parenting.

    Thanks for the support and the challenge.

    I didn't have equal parenting in mind when I wrote that, but more that we continue a path away from the highly gendered family roles of a generation ago. I agree that every relationship needs to find a model of parenting that works for all concerned, without judgement unless the child is being harmed unduly by it.

    However I do think a further culture shift towards it being easier for Dads to be involved (eg taking more time off work early in a baby's life) would pay dividends for many Dads and many families. I was surprised as a father how many cultural stereotypes there still were about who was the primary caregiver and found I had to fight quite hard to eg get a health visitor to talk to me as well as my wife about my children.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,239
    Yes, I think Trump is probably more likely to win than not.

    The signs are all there. It's just this board really don't want him to, so we're scrabbling around for evidence to the contrary and trying to boost it to make ourselves feel better.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,578

    Today’s SpaceX spectacle shows the hugely massive positive side of Elon Musk. Park the politics and look at the vision thing. He imagines a future to solve the problems of today considered unsolvable. He looks at established engineering things, asks why and gets out a blank sheet of paper.

    The largest rocket ever built. Made from Stainless Steel which the entire rocket science universe thought was a crazy idea. With 33 engines which previously was a recipe for big bangs and little else. Built to be wholly and quickly reusable which simply is impossible surely as nobody has even attempted it. With the rocket caught by its own landing having pulled off the Return to Laugh Site landing which put literal fear into steely eyed missile men like John Young when suggested previously.

    Oh yeah. And of course the thing catching the booster is called Mecha Zilla. Why wouldn’t it be.

    The road into the cosmos is open. We’re going back to the moon. We’re going to Mars. Boeing and SLS can just stop embarrassing themselves.

    Unfortunately that massive positive side of Elon Musk is outweighed by the traumatic depths of his negative side.
    Elon Musk - the World's Greatest Spiv.
    And the engineers at SpaceX achieved all that despite also having to contend with Musk's ravings and financial instability.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,536
    viewcode said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Have we discussed the Groan's speculations about extra taxes on Gambling?

    (I'm sure I have seen VAT mentioned, but it isn't in this piece.)

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/11/labour-tax-gambling-firms-treasury-public-finances

    More good news for offshore jurisdictions, mostly Gibraltar and IOM for the online casinos isn’t it?
    The question is whether General Betting Duty will be increased - it's currently 15% of bookmaker profits off-course (on-course betting is part of the horserace betting levy (HBL), which is charged on the gross profits of all betting on British horseracing (whether made on-course, in betting shops, or online). Receipts are collected by the horserace betting levy board (HBLB) – a UK statutory body.entirely tax free.

    The other betting/gaming levies were expected to raise £3.6 billion in 2023/2024.

    Lottery duty – charged on taking a chance or ticket in the UK National Lottery. The duty liable is a fixed proportion of total ticket sales. All lawful lotteries are exempt from the duty except the National Lottery. It is also payable on scratch cards and UK sales of Euromillions.
    Machine games duty (MGD) – charged on the playing of machine games that pay out cash prizes. These include slot, fruit and quiz machines, as well as fixed-odds betting terminals. The duty paid depends on how much it costs to play a game, and the size of the potential prize. MGD is not payable on machine games that offer only non-cash prizes or where the cost of playing is greater than any cash prize. It was introduced in early 2013 and replaced the amusement machine licence duty (AMLD).
    General betting duty (GBD) – charged on bookmakers’ profits for ‘general bets’, which include sports betting and bets on horse or dog racing, and their profits for spread bets, but exclude on-course betting. The duty paid depends on the type of bet and where it is made.
    Remote gaming duty (RGD) – charged on gaming provider profits from remote gaming (for instance, games played online). This includes the profits from any ‘free plays’ the provider offers. ‘Free plays’ are any offers to gamble at zero or reduced rates, and include free games, introductory bonuses or matched deposits.
    Gaming duty – charged on the gross gaming profits of UK-based casinos. The duty paid follows a banded structure, so more profitable casinos pay proportionately higher rates.
    Bingo duty – charged at a fixed rate on the gross profits of the bingo promoter. All bingo games played in the UK are liable to the duty, except domestic bingo, small-scale bingo, non-profit bingo and bingo played on machines covered by MGD, which are all exempt.
    Pool betting duty (PBD) – charged on bookmakers’ profits for bets where winners have a share in a pool of a stake of money.
    Thank you stodge, most useful
    Given that lottery charity spending is partly spent on things the government would otherwise support, it seems odd to tax the national lottery.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    Andy_JS said:

    Never seen anything like the rocket which landed back at the launching pad today. Amazing.

    How about the rocket that flew to the moon, landed two men on there, and then safely got them back?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612

    Yes, I think Trump is probably more likely to win than not.

    The signs are all there. It's just this board really don't want him to, so we're scrabbling around for evidence to the contrary and trying to boost it to make ourselves feel better.

    Sadly true on both counts.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,536

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    EU to table offshore asylum seeker detention centres, Starmer has to either do similar deals or watch the boat arrivals 10x as illegal immigrants all across Europe make their way to soft touch Britain.

    Scrapping the Rwanda scheme will be seen as the biggest failing of this government if the EU manages to get a consensus for offshore detention.

    Rwanda was an absurdly expensive stunt. In the first instance Sunak and Cleverly considered it hair-brained and unworkable. It was peak Johnson and Patel, and then Braverman got on board. That's all you need to know. Rwanda was simply ludicrous.

    You are more than welcome to criticise this Government on their handling of the small boats but trying to resell the Rwanda pup as anything but a pup is disingenuous.
    Scrapping Rwanda is one Starmer policy with positive polling. 44% approve vs 38% disapprove.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/political_party/Labour_Party

    But he has to deliver an alternative, or it won't stay that way for long.
    How much do you want to bet that immigration will be down this year from 2023?

    Well they’re policing the border rigorously today.

    After a day of driving, having left just after posting about the local hunters out shooting, I arrive at Calais Eurotunnel to two unnerving experiences.

    The first that I had written Dauphinoise instead of dauphinois for that most masculine of potato dishes in a post about masculinity.

    The second that after a suspicious series of questions by the British passport man about where I’d come from and why I’m travelling alone, I was taken aside for a security check and had to unpack the whole boot and lift the spare wheel cover, presumably just in case I was hiding an asylum seeker. Or a haul of drugs.
    You sure that was British Passport Control and not the French Language Police? A mis-gendered adjectif is a serious offence - they may not want you escaping the country without facing your punishment.
    The only time I've been asked any questions other than the perfunctory "where did you fly from today?" was coming back from France on the coach at Dover. Coach passengers must get special attention, presumably due to how cheap it is.

    The coach stinks, but Eurostar wanted £250 return to Lille that August, so I sucked it up.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    "For the first time in about a century, it is legal for U.S. residents to trade election contracts in a regulated prediction market. "

    https://www.270towin.com/news/2024/10/04/legal-us-prediction-markets-president-live_1670.html
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,933
    Andy_JS said:

    Never seen anything like the rocket which landed back at the launching pad today. Amazing.

    It is properly incredible

    The idea that the UK government excluded this genius from its “enterprise” conference because they don’t like his politics is the Purest Cringe

    Musk is a titanic genius - and will be seen as such for all his flaws. And who excluded him? Rachel fucking Reeves the lesbian Worzel Gummidge? Keir Starmer a pig-faced idiot of a man who sacrifices all morality for free Taylor Swift tickets?

    Its mortifying. Britain is governed by repulsive moral dwarves
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,073
    maxh said:

    darkage said:

    This is an interesting header thanks @maxh. I agree with the basic ideas that are being set out.
    I think that in culture there was a wrong turn with masculinity about 5-10 years ago; men eagerly embraced many of the criticisms of them, but then got confused and lost confidence in themselves leading to self doubt and weakness. So instead of getting a kind of synthesis, instead we get an unwanted resurgence of the former situation, filling the vacuum.
    One thing I would question though is 'equal parenting' as something everyone should aspire to. I think you need to do what works best for you in your relationship and there is no perfect form of parenting.

    Thanks for the support and the challenge.

    I didn't have equal parenting in mind when I wrote that, but more that we continue a path away from the highly gendered family roles of a generation ago. I agree that every relationship needs to find a model of parenting that works for all concerned, without judgement unless the child is being harmed unduly by it.

    However I do think a further culture shift towards it being easier for Dads to be involved (eg taking more time off work early in a baby's life) would pay dividends for many Dads and many families. I was surprised as a father how many cultural stereotypes there still were about who was the primary caregiver and found I had to fight quite hard to eg get a health visitor to talk to me as well as my wife about my children.
    Thank you, max, it is a really interesting and thoughtful header. I have only skimmed a few of the comments so may be repeating matters already thoroughly thrashed out.

    However, in the books I've read & the discussions I've heard dating back 40 or 50 years, there was already a lot of concern that from infancy on, normal boy behaviour was regarded as 'wrong', largely because so few early years teachers were male. Also because normal girl behaviour was so much easier to handle. There was concern that boys were being diagnosed with ADHD jwhen really they were just boys.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,571
    Neither candidate can win says Curtice.



    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    13m
    Tomorrow’s
    @independent
    front page. To subscribe to the Daily Edition https://independent.co.uk/subscribe

    https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/1845528488075276510
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,073
    Andy_JS said:

    Never seen anything like the rocket which landed back at the launching pad today. Amazing.

    Thanks for drawing my attention to that. I've just watched a short clip. Fantastic.
  • viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    viewcode said:

    stodge said:

    xyzxyzxyz said:

    “"Very very strict on migration and asylum but never going to do evil stuff like deportation"

    Until they see as their only card after screwing the economy up.“

    20% of the working age population are economically inactive. Tighter unemployment and sickness benefits would replace immigrant labour and reduce the deficit.

    Can you still advertise abroad for labour at 80% of the domestic wage?

    The proportion economically inactive hasn't changed much in the last 15 years despite what is generally believed. As a number it has increased but so has the sizze of the overall workforce.

    The real problem, as we all know, is productivity and the truth is it is easier and cheaper to hire an extra pair of hands to do things the same old way rather than look at ways by which the process can be improved or streamlined jusing technology (perhaps).
    Aren't the two main drags on productivity in the UK poor infrastructure and training?

    Neither can easily be put right quickly, particularly infrastructure.
    IIRC, it's the large percentage of working age adults who are not in employment, and the large amount of retired people. The only method the Govt has to improve productivity and growth is to import people, lots of people. This in turn creates problems.
    Productivity is output per hour per worker. Importing people does not improve it unless those people are of higher productivity than the average in that UK.Your analysis is correct for economic output, but even that isn't worth anything if output per capita isn't increasing.

    Output = working age population * participation rate * employment rate * average hours per week * productivity

    Lots of moving parts, all look quite bad in the UK at the moment
    Importing people does not improve it unless those people are of higher productivity than the average in that UK

    The BiB is the crucial bit.
    If being prepared to do crappy jobs such as fruit picking, living 6 to a caravan, when locals are not, then they are more productive.
  • carnforth said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    EU to table offshore asylum seeker detention centres, Starmer has to either do similar deals or watch the boat arrivals 10x as illegal immigrants all across Europe make their way to soft touch Britain.

    Scrapping the Rwanda scheme will be seen as the biggest failing of this government if the EU manages to get a consensus for offshore detention.

    Rwanda was an absurdly expensive stunt. In the first instance Sunak and Cleverly considered it hair-brained and unworkable. It was peak Johnson and Patel, and then Braverman got on board. That's all you need to know. Rwanda was simply ludicrous.

    You are more than welcome to criticise this Government on their handling of the small boats but trying to resell the Rwanda pup as anything but a pup is disingenuous.
    Scrapping Rwanda is one Starmer policy with positive polling. 44% approve vs 38% disapprove.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/political_party/Labour_Party

    But he has to deliver an alternative, or it won't stay that way for long.
    How much do you want to bet that immigration will be down this year from 2023?

    Well they’re policing the border rigorously today.

    After a day of driving, having left just after posting about the local hunters out shooting, I arrive at Calais Eurotunnel to two unnerving experiences.

    The first that I had written Dauphinoise instead of dauphinois for that most masculine of potato dishes in a post about masculinity.

    The second that after a suspicious series of questions by the British passport man about where I’d come from and why I’m travelling alone, I was taken aside for a security check and had to unpack the whole boot and lift the spare wheel cover, presumably just in case I was hiding an asylum seeker. Or a haul of drugs.
    You sure that was British Passport Control and not the French Language Police? A mis-gendered adjectif is a serious offence - they may not want you escaping the country without facing your punishment.
    The only time I've been asked any questions other than the perfunctory "where did you fly from today?" was coming back from France on the coach at Dover. Coach passengers must get special attention, presumably due to how cheap it is.

    The coach stinks, but Eurostar wanted £250 return to Lille that August, so I sucked it up.
    There's some pretty unpleasant people often waiting at the Eurostar terminal at Waterloo, who clearly love the Immigration job because it gives them an apparently legitimate reason to bully anyone whose face doesn't fit for them, including a lot of minority British people in I've often seen undetstsndably complaining at the rude treatment.
    If you've been born, worked and paid taxes in a country all your life, it can't be very fun for your first returning welcome to be first glaring and resentment, and then sneering abd abuse, all if which I've seen.
  • NEW THREAD

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,323

    Ultimately, a Badenoch leadership could be an unmitigated disaster for the Tories but could also go better than her detractors assume.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/13/kemi-badenoch-tory-leadership-contest-labour

    Sadly (for those who support her), I don't think Badenoch has done enough to win. She had done enough to beat the left wing candidate, which was obviously the plan, but not enough to beat the right wing candidate (I don't think). She has given virtually no policy. Just some flashes of leg. She's got no story about wanting to do things but being blocked by Sunak - she seemed very comfortable with his Government and very content to sink the Revocation bill without salvaging anything significant.

    I am hoping for a narrow Jenrick victory because if it's a decisive one, it looks bad on the party - the Tories enemies are already going to try and spin her losing as racist and sexist. And then she deserves a big Shad Cab role, but she needs to let go of Dougie and Co. - their time in control of the Tories will be over - fuckety bye.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,518

    Incidentally, I also recall one of @NickPalmer 's previous comments.

    During canvassing, he has occasionally come across women who go to ask their husbands who they will be voting for. He has never come across a man going to ask his wife (*). That 'power' of a man determining his wife's vote is just one way that the power of men in the home has declined. And that's a good thing, IMV - unless you are a man who expects to control his wife.

    And control is much of what this is about: control in the home; control in the bedroom; control over the finances. Slowly, the way men can 'control' women has reduced; women can go out and earn; they can control their own contraception; they can have their own bank accounts, even in marriage. That is a vast amount of change in less than a century.

    (*) I hope I recall this correctly. If not, apols.

    I'd forgottem. but I think Josias has it right.
This discussion has been closed.