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Could the Senate races in key swing states be telling us Trump will lose bigly?

SystemSystem Posts: 12,212
edited September 29 in General
imageCould the Senate races in key swing states be telling us Trump will lose bigly? – politicalbetting.com

A piece earlier this week in The Hill by Merrill Matthews made for interesting reading. In a nutshell, Dems are polling really well in key swing states when it comes to the Senate races. And yet when it comes to Trump vs Harris it is basically neck and neck in these states.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,358
    Very interesting question. Also interested in other people's opinions.

    I wonder whether turnout/likely voter weighting is behind this rather than split ticketing. Are people more likely to say they will vote for Presidents?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,236
    Worryingly the numbers show either way on Harris versus Trump.

    And the simpler explanation of Democrat Senate candidates being in a stronger position compared with the presidential is that Harris is less popular than others in her party or Trump is more popular than others in his.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    FF43 said:

    Worryingly the numbers show either way on Harris versus Trump.

    And the simpler explanation of Democrat Senate candidates being in a stronger position compared with the presidential is that Harris is less popular than others in her party or Trump is more popular than others in his.

    Possibly a bit of both. Harris is something of an unknown quantity still and Trump inspires messianic fervour among his followers for reasons that will remain ever mysterious.

    Also, many Republican senate candidates (and gubernatorial candidates *looks at North Carolina*) are absolute fruit loops, worse even than Trump, so it's not surprising they're not popular.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420
    FTP…

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    What worries me about Europe going for the Rwanda deal and Labour not having the balls to push it through is that it will increase the pull factor for illegal immigrants to come to the UK if they believe that staying in the EU will result in a one way ticket to Rwanda.

    Labour made a very poor decision to rule out offshore asylum seeker hosting and it may result reform breaching the 25% mark in the polls if Europe makes it work and we're not doing it.

    Except it won’t be a one way ticket if it’s as currently proposed by several countries. In any case we only get a tiny fraction of the European flow anyway - generally people with relatives here or English speakers.

    UK can do a lot to get its act together on asylum, speed up processing, speed deportations, rapidly integrate successful refugees into the labour market etc.
    BBC report has some French people blaming the ease of work in the U.K. without checks etc as one of the bigger pulls. So easy to shut down too - ID card linked to NI number and proper checking of all those restaurants, car washes and Turkish barbers.
    UK government stats have previously said that very few people coming over on boats disappear into the black economy. Nearly all present themselves to the authorities to claim asylum.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808
    I strongly mistrust the desire of the US media to portray every contest as close.

    There are a whole slew of indicators around enthusiasm, registration, ballot initiatives and most importantly actual recent election results that have tilted substantially more democratic than prior polls had suggested to indicate this will not be as close as the polls would have us believe.

    If Harris doesn’t win PA by >3% I will be very surprised.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114

    Morning all,

    Fantastic choice of photo there @TSE !!!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    FTP…

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    What worries me about Europe going for the Rwanda deal and Labour not having the balls to push it through is that it will increase the pull factor for illegal immigrants to come to the UK if they believe that staying in the EU will result in a one way ticket to Rwanda.

    Labour made a very poor decision to rule out offshore asylum seeker hosting and it may result reform breaching the 25% mark in the polls if Europe makes it work and we're not doing it.

    Except it won’t be a one way ticket if it’s as currently proposed by several countries. In any case we only get a tiny fraction of the European flow anyway - generally people with relatives here or English speakers.

    UK can do a lot to get its act together on asylum, speed up processing, speed deportations, rapidly integrate successful refugees into the labour market etc.
    BBC report has some French people blaming the ease of work in the U.K. without checks etc as one of the bigger pulls. So easy to shut down too - ID card linked to NI number and proper checking of all those restaurants, car washes and Turkish barbers.
    UK government stats have previously said that very few people coming over on boats disappear into the black economy. Nearly all present themselves to the authorities to claim asylum.
    To paraphrase Michael Howard, the problem is that you can't count people who don't present themselves to be counted. So we don't have statistics on this point, only estimates.

    As it happens, I'd be surprised if people arriving on small boats *do* disappear into the black economy in large numbers, because if you've got a black market job to go to you can probably arrive by a regular route anyway. But I'm not dogmatic on that point.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    edited September 6


    Morning all,

    Fantastic choice of photo there @TSE !!!

    Things are getting a bit hairy for Trump?
  • FTP…

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    What worries me about Europe going for the Rwanda deal and Labour not having the balls to push it through is that it will increase the pull factor for illegal immigrants to come to the UK if they believe that staying in the EU will result in a one way ticket to Rwanda.

    Labour made a very poor decision to rule out offshore asylum seeker hosting and it may result reform breaching the 25% mark in the polls if Europe makes it work and we're not doing it.

    Except it won’t be a one way ticket if it’s as currently proposed by several countries. In any case we only get a tiny fraction of the European flow anyway - generally people with relatives here or English speakers.

    UK can do a lot to get its act together on asylum, speed up processing, speed deportations, rapidly integrate successful refugees into the labour market etc.
    BBC report has some French people blaming the ease of work in the U.K. without checks etc as one of the bigger pulls. So easy to shut down too - ID card linked to NI number and proper checking of all those restaurants, car washes and Turkish barbers.
    UK government stats have previously said that very few people coming over on boats disappear into the black economy. Nearly all present themselves to the authorities to claim asylum.
    Understandable, it's such a visible way of getting in.

    Presumably the way to vanish into the underground is to come in on (say) a tourist visa and just forget to leave. Any stats on that? Presumably not, though I'd be surprised if it were a less popular route than the dangerous, expensive, visible to authorities one.
  • On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668


    Morning all,

    Fantastic choice of photo there @TSE !!!

    Essentially, I always expect the one of the gawping Republican women now.
  • FPT, but relevant here:
    kamski said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Well one of Allan Lichtman and Nate Silver is going to be wrong this year.

    Lichtman says Harris will win:
    https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/business/money-report/harris-will-beat-trump-says-election-prediction-legend-allan-lichtman/5766929/

    While Silver calls Trump the favourite:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/nate-silver-s-election-model-showzillows-donald-trump-surging/ar-AA1q0NT6

    They’re using completely different methods and models, and you can agree or disagree with each for a whole load of reasons and prejudices, they’ll likely both be updated many times between now and the election.

    Latest polling has Pennsylvania basically 50/50, it’s likely to be the Florida 2000 of this election, although hopefully it’s a little more decisive one way or the other on the night and doesn’t lead to weeks of fighting. I’d really hate to live in that state, for the amount of attention they’ll be getting from candidates and media in the next two months.

    At the moment, Harris could still win without Pennsylvania. There are, at any rate, credible pathways for her to do so. So I doubt if it will be as decisive as Florida 2000.

    She is, of course, not storming clear but Trump still faces major headwinds. Lack of money. Court cases. Poor polling in key states. Abortion referendums. Most of all, he is clearly becoming more and more confused and incoherent and that’s bound to cause him problems even if they’re not decisive ones.

    Silver is arguing Harris should have got more of a convention bounce. I’m dubious about that argument because in effect the convention happened earlier with the coronation process culminating in the selection of Walz. But we will see.
    Silver's latest model forecast has Trump up to 60% chance of winning
    https://politicalwire.com/2024/09/05/trump-holds-edge-in-latest-forecast/

    “Subjectively this seemed to me like a decent day of polling for Kamala Harris, but she was hurt by this series of polls from a Democratic group that showed her exactly tied with Trump in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Our polling averages apply a relatively harsh ‘house effects’ adjustment to partisan-sponsored polls, so it interprets ties in partisan polls as losing. And PA/MI/WI polls are really important to the forecast.

    But we’re now finally starting to get some post-Labor Day polls, which look decent for Harris, and those will be subject to less of a convention bounce adjustment than polls that went into the field immediately after the DNC. So we’ll see what the next several days bring.”

    538's model has Harris at 57%.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/

    I think Silver's model is probably too sophisticated with too many adjustments, but I wonder if 538's model has too much uncertainty (for an election where I think most people have already made up their minds) eg it gives Harris a 24% chance of winning Texas
    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/texas/
    Isn't this the elephant (and donkey) in the room?

    Pretty much all UK pollsters are trying to get it right, even when they don't succeed.

    I get the vibe that quite a lot of US polling (and poll analysis) isn't like that, and mostly I can't face sorting wheat from dubious wheat-substitute.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420

    FTP…

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    What worries me about Europe going for the Rwanda deal and Labour not having the balls to push it through is that it will increase the pull factor for illegal immigrants to come to the UK if they believe that staying in the EU will result in a one way ticket to Rwanda.

    Labour made a very poor decision to rule out offshore asylum seeker hosting and it may result reform breaching the 25% mark in the polls if Europe makes it work and we're not doing it.

    Except it won’t be a one way ticket if it’s as currently proposed by several countries. In any case we only get a tiny fraction of the European flow anyway - generally people with relatives here or English speakers.

    UK can do a lot to get its act together on asylum, speed up processing, speed deportations, rapidly integrate successful refugees into the labour market etc.
    BBC report has some French people blaming the ease of work in the U.K. without checks etc as one of the bigger pulls. So easy to shut down too - ID card linked to NI number and proper checking of all those restaurants, car washes and Turkish barbers.
    UK government stats have previously said that very few people coming over on boats disappear into the black economy. Nearly all present themselves to the authorities to claim asylum.
    Understandable, it's such a visible way of getting in.

    Presumably the way to vanish into the underground is to come in on (say) a tourist visa and just forget to leave. Any stats on that? Presumably not, though I'd be surprised if it were a less popular route than the dangerous, expensive, visible to authorities one.
    https://jcwi.org.uk/resource/who-are-the-uks-undocumented-population/ says…

    The vast majority of undocumented people in the UK arrived through formal routes and were later made undocumented. […]

    There is no definitive figure on the number of undocumented people in the UK. Recent estimates suggest it is between 800,000 and 1.2 million people, a larger proportion of the population than in comparable countries such as France, Spain, Switzerland and Portugal, where there are more routes to regularisation. The most significant region of origin for the UK’s undocumented population is Asia (52%) followed by Sub-Saharan Africa (20%), the Americas and non-EU Europe (16%) and the Middle East / North Africa (11%).

    The UK’s undocumented communities are more settled than those in Europe, with over half having lived here for more than five years. Many came to the UK as children: just over a quarter of undocumented people (215,000) are children, half of whom were born in the UK. As a result, most undocumented people have family in the UK
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420
    https://www.gulbenkian.co.uk/uk-visa-and-immigration-statistics/ adds…

    “Estimates suggest a figure between 800,000 and 1.2 million undocumented migrants residing in the UK as of June 2023. A significant portion, 82%, initially entered the UK legally but overstayed their visas.”
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    edited September 6


    Morning all,

    Fantastic choice of photo there @TSE !!!

    This is the classic defensive behaviour of the Trump in its natural habitat, it fluffs out its plumage to provide a more indistinct silhouette for an assassin to aim at. Works obviously.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114

    I strongly mistrust the desire of the US media to portray every contest as close.

    There are a whole slew of indicators around enthusiasm, registration, ballot initiatives and most importantly actual recent election results that have tilted substantially more democratic than prior polls had suggested to indicate this will not be as close as the polls would have us believe.

    If Harris doesn’t win PA by >3% I will be very surprised.

    Hope you are right. She needs to win big to stop any chance of months of legal challenges to the result.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420

    https://www.gulbenkian.co.uk/uk-visa-and-immigration-statistics/ adds…

    “Estimates suggest a figure between 800,000 and 1.2 million undocumented migrants residing in the UK as of June 2023. A significant portion, 82%, initially entered the UK legally but overstayed their visas.”

    In comparison, the UK asylum backlog is 118k.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,112

    FTP…

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    What worries me about Europe going for the Rwanda deal and Labour not having the balls to push it through is that it will increase the pull factor for illegal immigrants to come to the UK if they believe that staying in the EU will result in a one way ticket to Rwanda.

    Labour made a very poor decision to rule out offshore asylum seeker hosting and it may result reform breaching the 25% mark in the polls if Europe makes it work and we're not doing it.

    Except it won’t be a one way ticket if it’s as currently proposed by several countries. In any case we only get a tiny fraction of the European flow anyway - generally people with relatives here or English speakers.

    UK can do a lot to get its act together on asylum, speed up processing, speed deportations, rapidly integrate successful refugees into the labour market etc.
    BBC report has some French people blaming the ease of work in the U.K. without checks etc as one of the bigger pulls. So easy to shut down too - ID card linked to NI number and proper checking of all those restaurants, car washes and Turkish barbers.
    UK government stats have previously said that very few people coming over on boats disappear into the black economy. Nearly all present themselves to the authorities to claim asylum.
    Understandable, it's such a visible way of getting in.

    Presumably the way to vanish into the underground is to come in on (say) a tourist visa and just forget to leave. Any stats on that? Presumably not, though I'd be surprised if it were a less popular route than the dangerous, expensive, visible to authorities one.
    https://jcwi.org.uk/resource/who-are-the-uks-undocumented-population/ says…

    The vast majority of undocumented people in the UK arrived through formal routes and were later made undocumented. […]

    There is no definitive figure on the number of undocumented people in the UK. Recent estimates suggest it is between 800,000 and 1.2 million people, a larger proportion of the population than in comparable countries such as France, Spain, Switzerland and Portugal, where there are more routes to regularisation. The most significant region of origin for the UK’s undocumented population is Asia (52%) followed by Sub-Saharan Africa (20%), the Americas and non-EU Europe (16%) and the Middle East / North Africa (11%).

    The UK’s undocumented communities are more settled than those in Europe, with over half having lived here for more than five years. Many came to the UK as children: just over a quarter of undocumented people (215,000) are children, half of whom were born in the UK. As a result, most undocumented people have family in the UK
    My Trust identifies illegals quite often, as we are entitled to charge the individual for non-emergency care, but the immigration authorities are very lackadaisical at deporting them. Many remain in the country and turn up time and time again, presenting as emergencies.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114

    On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.

    And yet Trump seems more popular than these GOP candidates who are his protégés. Why is he more popular than whacko candidates who are just the same as him as far as relationship with reality is concerned?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172

    I strongly mistrust the desire of the US media to portray every contest as close.

    There are a whole slew of indicators around enthusiasm, registration, ballot initiatives and most importantly actual recent election results that have tilted substantially more democratic than prior polls had suggested to indicate this will not be as close as the polls would have us believe.

    If Harris doesn’t win PA by >3% I will be very surprised.

    It's genuinely hard to tell.

    US presidential polling is evidently not well correlated with the rest of political activity in the US. Turnout is unpredictable (it was unusually high last cycle); voter registration is subject to partisan manipulation; ; it's difficult for pollsters to reach representative selections if the electorate.

    My gut agrees with you in thinking the polls might be underestimating Harris, but I don't place huge reliance on it.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420

    https://www.gulbenkian.co.uk/uk-visa-and-immigration-statistics/ adds…

    “Estimates suggest a figure between 800,000 and 1.2 million undocumented migrants residing in the UK as of June 2023. A significant portion, 82%, initially entered the UK legally but overstayed their visas.”

    https://fullfact.org/immigration/how-many-people-overstay-visas/ has some earlier figures…

    “The most recent estimate suggests that around 618,000 people could have been living in the UK without permission in 2007. But because this was an estimate, the study thought that in reality it could be anywhere between 417,000 and 863,000 people. Of these around 442,000 (72%) were thought to live in London.”
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    FTP…

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    What worries me about Europe going for the Rwanda deal and Labour not having the balls to push it through is that it will increase the pull factor for illegal immigrants to come to the UK if they believe that staying in the EU will result in a one way ticket to Rwanda.

    Labour made a very poor decision to rule out offshore asylum seeker hosting and it may result reform breaching the 25% mark in the polls if Europe makes it work and we're not doing it.

    Except it won’t be a one way ticket if it’s as currently proposed by several countries. In any case we only get a tiny fraction of the European flow anyway - generally people with relatives here or English speakers.

    UK can do a lot to get its act together on asylum, speed up processing, speed deportations, rapidly integrate successful refugees into the labour market etc.
    BBC report has some French people blaming the ease of work in the U.K. without checks etc as one of the bigger pulls. So easy to shut down too - ID card linked to NI number and proper checking of all those restaurants, car washes and Turkish barbers.
    UK government stats have previously said that very few people coming over on boats disappear into the black economy. Nearly all present themselves to the authorities to claim asylum.
    "The data on arrivals does not include individuals who:

    ...

    arrive in the UK undetected, or where there have been reports of people making the crossing, but no actual encounters

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/5cede69b-a408-47eb-8933-31fb2813ab77"

    Note it doesn't qualify this by excluding people who arrive in the UK undetected *and do not subsequently volunteer the information that they came over by small boat and can they please have asylum*, which suggests that this doesn't happen very often.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208

    FPT, but relevant here:

    kamski said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Well one of Allan Lichtman and Nate Silver is going to be wrong this year.

    Lichtman says Harris will win:
    https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/business/money-report/harris-will-beat-trump-says-election-prediction-legend-allan-lichtman/5766929/

    While Silver calls Trump the favourite:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/nate-silver-s-election-model-showzillows-donald-trump-surging/ar-AA1q0NT6

    They’re using completely different methods and models, and you can agree or disagree with each for a whole load of reasons and prejudices, they’ll likely both be updated many times between now and the election.

    Latest polling has Pennsylvania basically 50/50, it’s likely to be the Florida 2000 of this election, although hopefully it’s a little more decisive one way or the other on the night and doesn’t lead to weeks of fighting. I’d really hate to live in that state, for the amount of attention they’ll be getting from candidates and media in the next two months.

    At the moment, Harris could still win without Pennsylvania. There are, at any rate, credible pathways for her to do so. So I doubt if it will be as decisive as Florida 2000.

    She is, of course, not storming clear but Trump still faces major headwinds. Lack of money. Court cases. Poor polling in key states. Abortion referendums. Most of all, he is clearly becoming more and more confused and incoherent and that’s bound to cause him problems even if they’re not decisive ones.

    Silver is arguing Harris should have got more of a convention bounce. I’m dubious about that argument because in effect the convention happened earlier with the coronation process culminating in the selection of Walz. But we will see.
    Silver's latest model forecast has Trump up to 60% chance of winning
    https://politicalwire.com/2024/09/05/trump-holds-edge-in-latest-forecast/

    “Subjectively this seemed to me like a decent day of polling for Kamala Harris, but she was hurt by this series of polls from a Democratic group that showed her exactly tied with Trump in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Our polling averages apply a relatively harsh ‘house effects’ adjustment to partisan-sponsored polls, so it interprets ties in partisan polls as losing. And PA/MI/WI polls are really important to the forecast.

    But we’re now finally starting to get some post-Labor Day polls, which look decent for Harris, and those will be subject to less of a convention bounce adjustment than polls that went into the field immediately after the DNC. So we’ll see what the next several days bring.”

    538's model has Harris at 57%.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/

    I think Silver's model is probably too sophisticated with too many adjustments, but I wonder if 538's model has too much uncertainty (for an election where I think most people have already made up their minds) eg it gives Harris a 24% chance of winning Texas
    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/texas/
    Isn't this the elephant (and donkey) in the room?

    Pretty much all UK pollsters are trying to get it right, even when they don't succeed.

    I get the vibe that quite a lot of US polling (and poll analysis) isn't like that, and mostly I can't face sorting wheat from dubious wheat-substitute.
    A better approach if Silver doesn't trust partisan-sponsored polls is just to exclude them.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420

    https://www.gulbenkian.co.uk/uk-visa-and-immigration-statistics/ adds…

    “Estimates suggest a figure between 800,000 and 1.2 million undocumented migrants residing in the UK as of June 2023. A significant portion, 82%, initially entered the UK legally but overstayed their visas.”

    https://fullfact.org/immigration/how-many-people-overstay-visas/ has some earlier figures…

    “The most recent estimate suggests that around 618,000 people could have been living in the UK without permission in 2007. But because this was an estimate, the study thought that in reality it could be anywhere between 417,000 and 863,000 people. Of these around 442,000 (72%) were thought to live in London.”
    Lots of discussion at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/irregular-migration-in-the-uk/ They think the 800k-1.2M estimate is a bit high for methodological reasons. Numbers are high compared to most of Europe (but similar to Germany). The suggestion for why numbers are lower in France etc. is that it’s easier in those countries to be there illegally and then to regularise one’s status, something very difficult in the UK.

    The number of enforced returns was pretty flat from 2010 to 2015, but then declined very markedly through to 2019.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,112

    On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.

    And yet Trump seems more popular than these GOP candidates who are his protégés. Why is he more popular than whacko candidates who are just the same as him as far as relationship with reality is concerned?
    Because Trump has a charismatic aura that his imps do not.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Nope, because Islamophobic trolls were trying to create a meme.

    The phrase 'part and parcel' is often used to attack Sadiq Khan and his supposed complacency about terrorism and violence but the full quote, after an attack in New York in September 2016, is nothing like as damning as people on the Right believe (and yes, I've used it before).

    Feels like one of those quotes, like 'there is no such thing as society' or 'the people in this country have had enough of experts' where the full context is very different to what people remember




    https://x.com/edwest/status/1757042184623136934
    The only words I’ve put in quotes are “part and parcel”. And that’s what he said. “Part and parcel”. Those exact words - and he said it in relation to living in a great global city and these terror attacks
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.

    Didn't Leon used to rate her ?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
  • Foxy said:

    On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.

    And yet Trump seems more popular than these GOP candidates who are his protégés. Why is he more popular than whacko candidates who are just the same as him as far as relationship with reality is concerned?
    Because Trump has a charismatic aura that his imps do not.
    See also: Johnsonism without Johnson.

    The question in both cases is similar. Do you keep the charismatic bullshitter to sell the bullshit, or find a different product that doesn't need a charismatic bullshitter to sell it?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Interesting AI treaty up for signing today, between the US, UK, and Council of Europe countries.

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/us-britain-eu-sign-agreement-ai-standards-ft-reports-2024-09-05/

    EU lobbyists describe it as watered down, and have their own tougher AI regulation - which suggests this new Treaty is going to be good news for the US and UK. Another Brexit benefit.

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/us-britain-eu-sign-agreement-ai-standards-ft-reports-2024-09-05/
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,668
    This only goes to reinforce the only thing I've ever been able to conclude from US polling. Which is that it is worse than useless. Poorly presented, mediocre models, based on what seems to be deeply variable data, and so partisan as to be essentially deceptive.

    Polling failures in the UK are, at least, well-regulated, good faith errors.
  • Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Both are misquotes/wilful misinterpretation. When I saw it I immediately thought of Khan.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,112
    Nigelb said:

    I strongly mistrust the desire of the US media to portray every contest as close.

    There are a whole slew of indicators around enthusiasm, registration, ballot initiatives and most importantly actual recent election results that have tilted substantially more democratic than prior polls had suggested to indicate this will not be as close as the polls would have us believe.

    If Harris doesn’t win PA by >3% I will be very surprised.

    It's genuinely hard to tell.

    US presidential polling is evidently not well correlated with the rest of political activity in the US. Turnout is unpredictable (it was unusually high last cycle); voter registration is subject to partisan manipulation; ; it's difficult for pollsters to reach representative selections if the electorate.

    My gut agrees with you in thinking the polls might be underestimating Harris, but I don't place huge reliance on it.
    Where the UK pollsters got it wrong was in getting turnout correct, particularly for Labour voters in seats Labour was expected to win. Turnout prediction was more accurate for LDs, Greens, and in Tory held seats for Labour challengers.

    US pollsters seem much more opaque in their weightings and adjustments so hard to interpret. I think movements over time are more transparent assuming no change in methodology.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Party and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
    The phrase “part and parcel” was grotesquely complacent - vis a vis brutal murderous terror attacks. It doesn’t really matter what he said afterwards (tho in fact what he said afterward doesn’t truly exonerate him)

    Let’s switch it up so you and @TSE and the other slow learners can see what I mean


    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for racist murders of black children, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”

    See?

    If a right wing mayor said that you’d be screaming for her resignation within an hour. But because it was odious lefty gnome Khan, it’s all good
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    Taz said:

    On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.

    Didn't Leon used to rate her ?
    Yep. She was the next Trump and going to go all the way to the top iirc.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,112
    Sandpit said:

    Interesting AI treaty up for signing today, between the US, UK, and Council of Europe countries.

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/us-britain-eu-sign-agreement-ai-standards-ft-reports-2024-09-05/

    EU lobbyists describe it as watered down, and have their own tougher AI regulation - which suggests this new Treaty is going to be good news for the US and UK. Another Brexit benefit.

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/us-britain-eu-sign-agreement-ai-standards-ft-reports-2024-09-05/

    Less regulation in not always a good thing, something that should be on our minds in the week of the Grenfell report.

    Though for regulation to be effective it has to be both well written and enforced.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    Cookie said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
    Doesn't strike me that Khan and Vance are particularly far apart there.
    Vance is taking a policy position on not regulating guns. If Khan had been asked about Grenfell Tower and commented that towering infernos like this are a fact of life and nothing to do with the flammability of cladding, then the two comments would be equivalent.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Taz said:

    On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.

    Didn't Leon used to rate her ?
    Yep. She was the next Trump and going to go all the way to the top iirc.
    I spotted her when she was completely unknown, and said: she has charisma and will become a player. No one on PB had even heard of her

    So it was. She lost the Arizona governor fight by a whisker

    I accept she’s somewhat messed up since. For a moment she looked like a credible VP pick (maybe she still does compared to Vance)

    Part of her problem is - as I noted at the time - she a bit too old. She’s an attractive women but getting on in years. If she was 15 years younger she would be this firecracker beauty with a trumpite shtick and a ready wit. Now she looks like a slightly crazy granny, TBH
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Of possibly some relevance to the US election, OPEC is keeping oil production cuts in place until November to prop up the oil price.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/05/investing/opec-extend-oil-output-cuts/index.html
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    I think what this shows is that, contrary to hope and expectation, Trump is still a big draw for the Republican ticket. The big unanswered question is whether the Republican senate and house candidates can ride his coattails.

    I think the election comes down to a big struggle over turnout. The ballot votes on abortion should help the Democrats, but may also help the Republicans with the evangelical vote, which some have suggested is a bit soft this time.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.

    Didn't Leon used to rate her ?
    Yep. She was the next Trump and going to go all the way to the top iirc.
    I spotted her when she was completely unknown, and said: she has charisma and will become a player. No one on PB had even heard of her

    So it was. She lost the Arizona governor fight by a whisker

    I accept she’s somewhat messed up since. For a moment she looked like a credible VP pick (maybe she still does compared to Vance)

    Part of her problem is - as I noted at the time - she a bit too old. She’s an attractive women but getting on in years. If she was 15 years younger she would be this firecracker beauty with a trumpite shtick and a ready wit. Now she looks like a slightly crazy granny, TBH
    She’s just turned 55. Only 18 months older than Megyn Kelly, that other famous conservative news hottie.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,125
    Foxy said:

    FTP…

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    What worries me about Europe going for the Rwanda deal and Labour not having the balls to push it through is that it will increase the pull factor for illegal immigrants to come to the UK if they believe that staying in the EU will result in a one way ticket to Rwanda.

    Labour made a very poor decision to rule out offshore asylum seeker hosting and it may result reform breaching the 25% mark in the polls if Europe makes it work and we're not doing it.

    Except it won’t be a one way ticket if it’s as currently proposed by several countries. In any case we only get a tiny fraction of the European flow anyway - generally people with relatives here or English speakers.

    UK can do a lot to get its act together on asylum, speed up processing, speed deportations, rapidly integrate successful refugees into the labour market etc.
    BBC report has some French people blaming the ease of work in the U.K. without checks etc as one of the bigger pulls. So easy to shut down too - ID card linked to NI number and proper checking of all those restaurants, car washes and Turkish barbers.
    UK government stats have previously said that very few people coming over on boats disappear into the black economy. Nearly all present themselves to the authorities to claim asylum.
    Understandable, it's such a visible way of getting in.

    Presumably the way to vanish into the underground is to come in on (say) a tourist visa and just forget to leave. Any stats on that? Presumably not, though I'd be surprised if it were a less popular route than the dangerous, expensive, visible to authorities one.
    https://jcwi.org.uk/resource/who-are-the-uks-undocumented-population/ says…

    The vast majority of undocumented people in the UK arrived through formal routes and were later made undocumented. […]

    There is no definitive figure on the number of undocumented people in the UK. Recent estimates suggest it is between 800,000 and 1.2 million people, a larger proportion of the population than in comparable countries such as France, Spain, Switzerland and Portugal, where there are more routes to regularisation. The most significant region of origin for the UK’s undocumented population is Asia (52%) followed by Sub-Saharan Africa (20%), the Americas and non-EU Europe (16%) and the Middle East / North Africa (11%).

    The UK’s undocumented communities are more settled than those in Europe, with over half having lived here for more than five years. Many came to the UK as children: just over a quarter of undocumented people (215,000) are children, half of whom were born in the UK. As a result, most undocumented people have family in the UK
    My Trust identifies illegals quite often, as we are entitled to charge the individual for non-emergency care, but the immigration authorities are very lackadaisical at deporting them. .
    I'm usually the last person to make excuses for our lazy and incompetent government, but it's much more difficult to deport people than you seem to think. Even if you can find them and hold them, in the face of loads of human rights lawyers like our current Prime Minister, they won't say where they're from, and even if they do, many of their countries often won't take them back.

    Given that we're not going to shoot them, what do we do with them then?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    Very on topic:

    "The analyst Ryan Girdusky has spotted one of the problems. Voters over the age of 65 backed Trump in the last two elections, but polls are now indicating Harris is going to beat Trump decisively amongst that age group.

    Rather than that being a genuine shift, Girdusky has identified that older white liberals are more likely to answer polls than older white or Hispanic conservatives"


    If you think Trump is losing, you’re in for a nasty surprise
    Polls pointing to a Kamala Harris victory appear to be skewed by including too many Democrat voters

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/06/if-you-think-trump-losing-in-for-nasty-surprise/
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420

    I think what this shows is that, contrary to hope and expectation, Trump is still a big draw for the Republican ticket. The big unanswered question is whether the Republican senate and house candidates can ride his coattails.

    I think the election comes down to a big struggle over turnout. The ballot votes on abortion should help the Democrats, but may also help the Republicans with the evangelical vote, which some have suggested is a bit soft this time.

    Trump saying he opposes Florida’s abortion ban, and then saying he supports it, didn’t go down well with anti-abortion activists who were paying attention. (You can also compare Kari Lake who opposed abortion, then supported abortion and now opposes abortion again.)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    So Oxford built a new park and ride on the road to Witney - but it’s not going to be open for at least another two years, because the access road is a different project.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/05/pointless-51m-car-park-symbolises-oxfords-war-on-motorists/
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420
    Fishing said:


    Foxy said:

    FTP…

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    What worries me about Europe going for the Rwanda deal and Labour not having the balls to push it through is that it will increase the pull factor for illegal immigrants to come to the UK if they believe that staying in the EU will result in a one way ticket to Rwanda.

    Labour made a very poor decision to rule out offshore asylum seeker hosting and it may result reform breaching the 25% mark in the polls if Europe makes it work and we're not doing it.

    Except it won’t be a one way ticket if it’s as currently proposed by several countries. In any case we only get a tiny fraction of the European flow anyway - generally people with relatives here or English speakers.

    UK can do a lot to get its act together on asylum, speed up processing, speed deportations, rapidly integrate successful refugees into the labour market etc.
    BBC report has some French people blaming the ease of work in the U.K. without checks etc as one of the bigger pulls. So easy to shut down too - ID card linked to NI number and proper checking of all those restaurants, car washes and Turkish barbers.
    UK government stats have previously said that very few people coming over on boats disappear into the black economy. Nearly all present themselves to the authorities to claim asylum.
    Understandable, it's such a visible way of getting in.

    Presumably the way to vanish into the underground is to come in on (say) a tourist visa and just forget to leave. Any stats on that? Presumably not, though I'd be surprised if it were a less popular route than the dangerous, expensive, visible to authorities one.
    https://jcwi.org.uk/resource/who-are-the-uks-undocumented-population/ says…

    The vast majority of undocumented people in the UK arrived through formal routes and were later made undocumented. […]

    There is no definitive figure on the number of undocumented people in the UK. Recent estimates suggest it is between 800,000 and 1.2 million people, a larger proportion of the population than in comparable countries such as France, Spain, Switzerland and Portugal, where there are more routes to regularisation. The most significant region of origin for the UK’s undocumented population is Asia (52%) followed by Sub-Saharan Africa (20%), the Americas and non-EU Europe (16%) and the Middle East / North Africa (11%).

    The UK’s undocumented communities are more settled than those in Europe, with over half having lived here for more than five years. Many came to the UK as children: just over a quarter of undocumented people (215,000) are children, half of whom were born in the UK. As a result, most undocumented people have family in the UK
    My Trust identifies illegals quite often, as we are entitled to charge the individual for non-emergency care, but the immigration authorities are very lackadaisical at deporting them. .
    I'm usually the last person to make excuses for our lazy and incompetent government, but it's much more difficult to deport people than you seem to think. Even if you can find them and hold them, in the face of loads of human rights lawyers like our current Prime Minister, they won't say where they're from, and even if they do, many of their countries often won't take them back.

    Given that we're not going to shoot them, what do we do with them then?
    Most visa overstayers are not from countries to which it is difficult to deport people. Deportations had been flat 2010-2015, but then precipitously declined to 2019. That wasn’t because human rights lawyers suddenly got more effective. It’s because the Conservatives cut funding.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,125
    On topic, interesting statistics.

    They probably show that Harris is a mediocre to poor candidate and essentially continuity Biden without the senility, but enough people are so desperate to avoid four more years of Trump that she's in with a decent chance.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895

    On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.

    And yet Trump seems more popular than these GOP candidates who are his protégés. Why is he more popular than whacko candidates who are just the same as him as far as relationship with reality is concerned?
    Trump has a special relationship with Republican voters that is sui generis. Boris Johnson came close to it, but the way he was damaged by partygate shows that even he fell short of it.

    It gives one hope that the political situation in the US is not quite as bad as it appears, because Trump is old and getting older, and future Republican politicians might not be able to replicate his success.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    Sandpit said:

    Of possibly some relevance to the US election, OPEC is keeping oil production cuts in place until November to prop up the oil price.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/05/investing/opec-extend-oil-output-cuts/index.html

    Isnt the US self-sufficient in oil and gas these days?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    FTP…

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    What worries me about Europe going for the Rwanda deal and Labour not having the balls to push it through is that it will increase the pull factor for illegal immigrants to come to the UK if they believe that staying in the EU will result in a one way ticket to Rwanda.

    Labour made a very poor decision to rule out offshore asylum seeker hosting and it may result reform breaching the 25% mark in the polls if Europe makes it work and we're not doing it.

    Except it won’t be a one way ticket if it’s as currently proposed by several countries. In any case we only get a tiny fraction of the European flow anyway - generally people with relatives here or English speakers.

    UK can do a lot to get its act together on asylum, speed up processing, speed deportations, rapidly integrate successful refugees into the labour market etc.
    BBC report has some French people blaming the ease of work in the U.K. without checks etc as one of the bigger pulls. So easy to shut down too - ID card linked to NI number and proper checking of all those restaurants, car washes and Turkish barbers.
    UK government stats have previously said that very few people coming over on boats disappear into the black economy. Nearly all present themselves to the authorities to claim asylum.
    I will need to go and search and find the news report / article but I do remember a while back that one of the draws for the UK was that it was their final hope of remaining in Europe after their attempts to claim refugee status in Germany & France had been rejected...

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012
    What I think is clear is that Trump pulls his supporters out like no one else in the current Republican party. The 2022 results were poor with the GOP underperforming but Trump was not on the ticket. In both 2016 and 2020 Trump exceeded his polling by varying degrees.

    I don't think Harris is such a pull in herself. Stop Trump is to a degree. Will it help if voters are strongly motivated to go out and vote for a Senate candidate that they like? Possibly, at the margins, but I still think contempt and fear of Trump are the biggest recruiting sergeants for Harris and down ticket races will have an extremely marginal effect, if any.

    Interesting though.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Party and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
    The phrase “part and parcel” was grotesquely complacent - vis a vis brutal murderous terror attacks. It doesn’t really matter what he said afterwards (tho in fact what he said afterward doesn’t truly exonerate him)

    Let’s switch it up so you and @TSE and the other slow learners can see what I mean


    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for racist murders of black children, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”

    See?

    If a right wing mayor said that you’d be screaming for her resignation within an hour. But because it was odious lefty gnome Khan, it’s all good
    This 'gotcha' stuff is a depressing feature of politics - on all sides.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895

    Sandpit said:

    Of possibly some relevance to the US election, OPEC is keeping oil production cuts in place until November to prop up the oil price.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/05/investing/opec-extend-oil-output-cuts/index.html

    Isnt the US self-sufficient in oil and gas these days?
    Yes, but they have enough export capacity that they still pay the global market price for oil and gas. Producers mostly aren't forced to accept a lower price in the US instead of taking a higher price abroad.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,549
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    I strongly mistrust the desire of the US media to portray every contest as close.

    There are a whole slew of indicators around enthusiasm, registration, ballot initiatives and most importantly actual recent election results that have tilted substantially more democratic than prior polls had suggested to indicate this will not be as close as the polls would have us believe.

    If Harris doesn’t win PA by >3% I will be very surprised.

    It's genuinely hard to tell.

    US presidential polling is evidently not well correlated with the rest of political activity in the US. Turnout is unpredictable (it was unusually high last cycle); voter registration is subject to partisan manipulation; ; it's difficult for pollsters to reach representative selections if the electorate.

    My gut agrees with you in thinking the polls might be underestimating Harris, but I don't place huge reliance on it.
    Where the UK pollsters got it wrong was in getting turnout correct, particularly for Labour voters in seats Labour was expected to win. Turnout prediction was more accurate for LDs, Greens, and in Tory held seats for Labour challengers.

    US pollsters seem much more opaque in their weightings and adjustments so hard to interpret. I think movements over time are more transparent assuming no change in methodology.
    What about the UK pollsters doing US polls? We have Yougov and Redfield & Wilton.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    Of possibly some relevance to the US election, OPEC is keeping oil production cuts in place until November to prop up the oil price.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/05/investing/opec-extend-oil-output-cuts/index.html

    Isnt the US self-sufficient in oil and gas these days?
    They’ve been pretty much right on the line for about five years now. But the global price is still the global price, and there’s still a lot of imports and exports in the product mix.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_energy_independence
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Party and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
    The phrase “part and parcel” was grotesquely complacent - vis a vis brutal murderous terror attacks. It doesn’t really matter what he said afterwards (tho in fact what he said afterward doesn’t truly exonerate him)

    Let’s switch it up so you and @TSE and the other slow learners can see what I mean


    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for racist murders of black children, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”

    See?

    If a right wing mayor said that you’d be screaming for her resignation within an hour. But because it was odious lefty gnome Khan, it’s all good
    Leon, you're toying with the rabbit hole. We're used to (and enjoy) the endless stream of frenetic excitement, and appreciate you're testing ideas out before using them in more considered writing.

    But since the riots you have been regularly regurgitating far-right memes and falsehoods, particularly over the sentencing over some very nasty people. What Khan said is perfectly reasonable, and it is normal for people living in a city of 8 million to assist the police in keeping everyone safe. I would expect you to do the same, whether it's a drunk man getting into a car, a suspicious bag left on a train, or a friend with mental health issues making ugly threats about Muslims.

    The alternative is a police state.
  • On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.

    And yet Trump seems more popular than these GOP candidates who are his protégés. Why is he more popular than whacko candidates who are just the same as him as far as relationship with reality is concerned?
    Trump is far more politically moderate than many of the GOP candidates down ticket.

    Trump's problem isn't political extremism but his criminality, self-obsession and age.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,112
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Party and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
    The phrase “part and parcel” was grotesquely complacent - vis a vis brutal murderous terror attacks. It doesn’t really matter what he said afterwards (tho in fact what he said afterward doesn’t truly exonerate him)

    Let’s switch it up so you and @TSE and the other slow learners can see what I mean


    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for racist murders of black children, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”

    See?

    If a right wing mayor said that you’d be screaming for her resignation within an hour. But because it was odious lefty gnome Khan, it’s all good
    Leon, you're toying with the rabbit hole. We're used to (and enjoy) the endless stream of frenetic excitement, and appreciate you're testing ideas out before using them in more considered writing.

    But since the riots you have been regularly regurgitating far-right memes and falsehoods, particularly over the sentencing over some very nasty people. What Khan said is perfectly reasonable, and it is normal for people living in a city of 8 million to assist the police in keeping everyone safe. I would expect you to do the same, whether it's a drunk man getting into a car, a suspicious bag left on a train, or a friend with mental health issues making ugly threats about Muslims.

    The alternative is a police state.
    Leon is the new Plato. It's a tale we have seen before.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    edited September 6
    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Party and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
    The phrase “part and parcel” was grotesquely complacent - vis a vis brutal murderous terror attacks. It doesn’t really matter what he said afterwards (tho in fact what he said afterward doesn’t truly exonerate him)

    Let’s switch it up so you and @TSE and the other slow learners can see what I mean


    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for racist murders of black children, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”

    See?

    If a right wing mayor said that you’d be screaming for her resignation within an hour. But because it was odious lefty gnome Khan, it’s all good
    Leon, you're toying with the rabbit hole. We're used to (and enjoy) the endless stream of frenetic excitement, and appreciate you're testing ideas out before using them in more considered writing.

    But since the riots you have been regularly regurgitating far-right memes and falsehoods, particularly over the sentencing over some very nasty people. What Khan said is perfectly reasonable, and it is normal for people living in a city of 8 million to assist the police in keeping everyone safe. I would expect you to do the same, whether it's a drunk man getting into a car, a suspicious bag left on a train, or a friend with mental health issues making ugly threats about Muslims.

    The alternative is a police state.
    Leon is the new Plato. It's a tale we have seen before.
    Plato, the lady who was the canary in the coal mine in 2016, that Plato?

    The US politics and media is considerably more divided now than it was then, the two sides are mostly talking straight past each other in increasingly hyperbolic language, and can agree on very little other than today being Friday.
  • Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Party and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
    The phrase “part and parcel” was grotesquely complacent - vis a vis brutal murderous terror attacks. It doesn’t really matter what he said afterwards (tho in fact what he said afterward doesn’t truly exonerate him)

    Let’s switch it up so you and @TSE and the other slow learners can see what I mean


    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for racist murders of black children, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”

    See?

    If a right wing mayor said that you’d be screaming for her resignation within an hour. But because it was odious lefty gnome Khan, it’s all good
    Leon, you're toying with the rabbit hole. We're used to (and enjoy) the endless stream of frenetic excitement, and appreciate you're testing ideas out before using them in more considered writing.

    But since the riots you have been regularly regurgitating far-right memes and falsehoods, particularly over the sentencing over some very nasty people. What Khan said is perfectly reasonable, and it is normal for people living in a city of 8 million to assist the police in keeping everyone safe. I would expect you to do the same, whether it's a drunk man getting into a car, a suspicious bag left on a train, or a friend with mental health issues making ugly threats about Muslims.

    The alternative is a police state.
    Leon is the new Plato. It's a tale we have seen before.
    Plato, the lady who was the canary in the coal mine in 2016, that Plato?
    Her final 2016 prediction was that Clinton would win..
  • Kari Lake is so bad that in 2018 the GOP won the state by over 14% and she shat the bed.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    edited September 6
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Party and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
    The phrase “part and parcel” was grotesquely complacent - vis a vis brutal murderous terror attacks. It doesn’t really matter what he said afterwards (tho in fact what he said afterward doesn’t truly exonerate him)

    Let’s switch it up so you and @TSE and the other slow learners can see what I mean


    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for racist murders of black children, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”

    See?

    If a right wing mayor said that you’d be screaming for her resignation within an hour. But because it was odious lefty gnome Khan, it’s all good
    Nah. Very sensible from Khan, whom otherwise I hold in relatively low regard (although I'm not 100% sure why, Labour something).

    What would you have preferred him to do, declare a war on terrorism, or a war on drugs, or a war on the sun rising?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    edited September 6
    Have PB’s lawfare commentators been all over this?

    Hunter Biden enters surprise guilty plea to avoid tax trial

    US president’s son had planned to deny allegations related to time he was reportedly spending lavishly on drugs, sex workers and hotels


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2024/09/05/hunter-biden-to-plead-guilty-in-tax-evasion-case/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,112
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Party and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
    The phrase “part and parcel” was grotesquely complacent - vis a vis brutal murderous terror attacks. It doesn’t really matter what he said afterwards (tho in fact what he said afterward doesn’t truly exonerate him)

    Let’s switch it up so you and @TSE and the other slow learners can see what I mean


    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for racist murders of black children, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”

    See?

    If a right wing mayor said that you’d be screaming for her resignation within an hour. But because it was odious lefty gnome Khan, it’s all good
    Leon, you're toying with the rabbit hole. We're used to (and enjoy) the endless stream of frenetic excitement, and appreciate you're testing ideas out before using them in more considered writing.

    But since the riots you have been regularly regurgitating far-right memes and falsehoods, particularly over the sentencing over some very nasty people. What Khan said is perfectly reasonable, and it is normal for people living in a city of 8 million to assist the police in keeping everyone safe. I would expect you to do the same, whether it's a drunk man getting into a car, a suspicious bag left on a train, or a friend with mental health issues making ugly threats about Muslims.

    The alternative is a police state.
    Leon is the new Plato. It's a tale we have seen before.
    Plato, the lady who was the canary in the coal mine in 2016, that Plato?
    If you look back on Vanilla to the Monday of 2016 election eve, I asked her if Trump would win and she said she didn't think so. So not a very accurate canary.

    We could all spot that Trump had a fan base and the polling. It was her (and Rod Crosby) who didn't just see that fan base but enthusiastically joined it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    FTP…

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    What worries me about Europe going for the Rwanda deal and Labour not having the balls to push it through is that it will increase the pull factor for illegal immigrants to come to the UK if they believe that staying in the EU will result in a one way ticket to Rwanda.

    Labour made a very poor decision to rule out offshore asylum seeker hosting and it may result reform breaching the 25% mark in the polls if Europe makes it work and we're not doing it.

    Except it won’t be a one way ticket if it’s as currently proposed by several countries. In any case we only get a tiny fraction of the European flow anyway - generally people with relatives here or English speakers.

    UK can do a lot to get its act together on asylum, speed up processing, speed deportations, rapidly integrate successful refugees into the labour market etc.
    BBC report has some French people blaming the ease of work in the U.K. without checks etc as one of the bigger pulls. So easy to shut down too - ID card linked to NI number and proper checking of all those restaurants, car washes and Turkish barbers.
    UK government stats have previously said that very few people coming over on boats disappear into the black economy. Nearly all present themselves to the authorities to claim asylum.
    IIRC the guestimates of the total number is based on the numbers claiming asylum....
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Party and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
    The phrase “part and parcel” was grotesquely complacent - vis a vis brutal murderous terror attacks. It doesn’t really matter what he said afterwards (tho in fact what he said afterward doesn’t truly exonerate him)

    Let’s switch it up so you and @TSE and the other slow learners can see what I mean


    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for racist murders of black children, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”

    See?

    If a right wing mayor said that you’d be screaming for her resignation within an hour. But because it was odious lefty gnome Khan, it’s all good
    Leon, you're toying with the rabbit hole. We're used to (and enjoy) the endless stream of frenetic excitement, and appreciate you're testing ideas out before using them in more considered writing.

    But since the riots you have been regularly regurgitating far-right memes and falsehoods, particularly over the sentencing over some very nasty people. What Khan said is perfectly reasonable, and it is normal for people living in a city of 8 million to assist the police in keeping everyone safe. I would expect you to do the same, whether it's a drunk man getting into a car, a suspicious bag left on a train, or a friend with mental health issues making ugly threats about Muslims.

    The alternative is a police state.
    Leon is the new Plato. It's a tale we have seen before.
    Plato, the lady who was the canary in the coal mine in 2016, that Plato?
    Her final 2016 prediction was that Clinton would win..
    IIrc that was more a despairing cri de coeur that the forces of libtard woke would defeat Donald rather than a scientific analysis of polling.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.

    Didn't Leon used to rate her ?
    Yep. She was the next Trump and going to go all the way to the top iirc.
    I spotted her when she was completely unknown, and said: she has charisma and will become a player. No one on PB had even heard of her

    So it was. She lost the Arizona governor fight by a whisker

    I accept she’s somewhat messed up since. For a moment she looked like a credible VP pick (maybe she still does compared to Vance)

    Part of her problem is - as I noted at the time - she a bit too old. She’s an attractive women but getting on in years. If she was 15 years younger she would be this firecracker beauty with a trumpite shtick and a ready wit. Now she looks like a slightly crazy granny, TBH
    She’s just turned 55. Only 18 months older than Megyn Kelly, that other famous conservative news hottie.
    Yes but for some reason Kari Lake needs youth. I don’t know why - but she does

    I’ve just been thinking about age and political careers (it’s not that sad, I’m stuck in Kotor traffic)

    It’s a complex relationship. Sometimes age works, sometimes youth. Depends on the candidate and the electorate

    Take Corbyn. No way would he have got as far as he did if he was younger (at the time). He’d have been seen as a dangerous if eccentric radical. But because he was older = magic grandpa

    Equally an old JFK would not have worked either. Just a pervy old man
  • FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting AI treaty up for signing today, between the US, UK, and Council of Europe countries.

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/us-britain-eu-sign-agreement-ai-standards-ft-reports-2024-09-05/

    EU lobbyists describe it as watered down, and have their own tougher AI regulation - which suggests this new Treaty is going to be good news for the US and UK. Another Brexit benefit.

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/us-britain-eu-sign-agreement-ai-standards-ft-reports-2024-09-05/

    Less regulation in not always a good thing, something that should be on our minds in the week of the Grenfell report.

    Though for regulation to be effective it has to be both well written and enforced.
    The Housing Minister in the Cameron government instituted a grotesquely named as it turned out "bonfire of red tape" in his department. It was a highly politicised campaign, the only effect of which was to remove safety protections. It was one of the factors in the death of 70 people in Grenfell Tower.

    The same minister still represents the Conservatives on the House of Lords and told the inquiry to hurry up its questions because he had important people to see.

    And people on here will say Starmer has the worst government of their life times.
    No regulation is going to account for people lying and fabricating results.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.

    Didn't Leon used to rate her ?
    Yep. She was the next Trump and going to go all the way to the top iirc.
    I spotted her when she was completely unknown, and said: she has charisma and will become a player. No one on PB had even heard of her

    So it was. She lost the Arizona governor fight by a whisker

    I accept she’s somewhat messed up since. For a moment she looked like a credible VP pick (maybe she still does compared to Vance)

    Part of her problem is - as I noted at the time - she a bit too old. She’s an attractive women but getting on in years. If she was 15 years younger she would be this firecracker beauty with a trumpite shtick and a ready wit. Now she looks like a slightly crazy granny, TBH
    She’s just turned 55. Only 18 months older than Megyn Kelly, that other famous conservative news hottie.
    Yes but for some reason Kari Lake needs youth. I don’t know why - but she does

    I’ve just been thinking about age and political careers (it’s not that sad, I’m stuck in Kotor traffic)

    It’s a complex relationship. Sometimes age works, sometimes youth. Depends on the candidate and the electorate

    Take Corbyn. No way would he have got as far as he did if he was younger (at the time). He’d have been seen as a dangerous if eccentric radical. But because he was older = magic grandpa

    Equally an old JFK would not have worked either. Just a pervy old man
    Isn't sitting in traffic one of the best, most direct and authentic ways of observing and ingesting whatever culture you are in. I don't mean a halting conversation with the taxi driver, I mean looking out of the window at the place just going about its business.

    Why drag yourself back to Stockport or restrict yourself to martinis by the pool.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Party and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
    The phrase “part and parcel” was grotesquely complacent - vis a vis brutal murderous terror attacks. It doesn’t really matter what he said afterwards (tho in fact what he said afterward doesn’t truly exonerate him)

    Let’s switch it up so you and @TSE and the other slow learners can see what I mean


    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for racist murders of black children, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”

    See?

    If a right wing mayor said that you’d be screaming for her resignation within an hour. But because it was odious lefty gnome Khan, it’s all good
    Leon, you're toying with the rabbit hole. We're used to (and enjoy) the endless stream of frenetic excitement, and appreciate you're testing ideas out before using them in more considered writing.

    But since the riots you have been regularly regurgitating far-right memes and falsehoods, particularly over the sentencing over some very nasty people. What Khan said is perfectly reasonable, and it is normal for people living in a city of 8 million to assist the police in keeping everyone safe. I would expect you to do the same, whether it's a drunk man getting into a car, a suspicious bag left on a train, or a friend with mental health issues making ugly threats about Muslims.

    The alternative is a police state.
    I was gonna type a long reply then realised I don’t give a single tiny sperm of a fuck what you think
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.

    Didn't Leon used to rate her ?
    Yep. She was the next Trump and going to go all the way to the top iirc.
    I spotted her when she was completely unknown, and said: she has charisma and will become a player. No one on PB had even heard of her

    So it was. She lost the Arizona governor fight by a whisker

    I accept she’s somewhat messed up since. For a moment she looked like a credible VP pick (maybe she still does compared to Vance)

    Part of her problem is - as I noted at the time - she a bit too old. She’s an attractive women but getting on in years. If she was 15 years younger she would be this firecracker beauty with a trumpite shtick and a ready wit. Now she looks like a slightly crazy granny, TBH
    She’s just turned 55. Only 18 months older than Megyn Kelly, that other famous conservative news hottie.
    Yes but for some reason Kari Lake needs youth. I don’t know why - but she does

    I’ve just been thinking about age and political careers (it’s not that sad, I’m stuck in Kotor traffic)

    It’s a complex relationship. Sometimes age works, sometimes youth. Depends on the candidate and the electorate

    Take Corbyn. No way would he have got as far as he did if he was younger (at the time). He’d have been seen as a dangerous if eccentric radical. But because he was older = magic grandpa

    Equally an old JFK would not have worked either. Just a pervy old man
    Isn't sitting in traffic one of the best, most direct and authentic ways of observing and ingesting whatever culture you are in. I don't mean a halting conversation with the taxi driver, I mean looking out of the window at the place just going about its business.

    Why drag yourself back to Stockport or restrict yourself to martinis by the pool.
    Five things I’m not gonna miss about Montenegro

    1. The roads
    2. The roads
    3. The drivers
    4. The traffic
    5. The roads
  • Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Party and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
    The phrase “part and parcel” was grotesquely complacent - vis a vis brutal murderous terror attacks. It doesn’t really matter what he said afterwards (tho in fact what he said afterward doesn’t truly exonerate him)

    Let’s switch it up so you and @TSE and the other slow learners can see what I mean


    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for racist murders of black children, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”

    See?

    If a right wing mayor said that you’d be screaming for her resignation within an hour. But because it was odious lefty gnome Khan, it’s all good
    Leon, you're toying with the rabbit hole. We're used to (and enjoy) the endless stream of frenetic excitement, and appreciate you're testing ideas out before using them in more considered writing.

    But since the riots you have been regularly regurgitating far-right memes and falsehoods, particularly over the sentencing over some very nasty people. What Khan said is perfectly reasonable, and it is normal for people living in a city of 8 million to assist the police in keeping everyone safe. I would expect you to do the same, whether it's a drunk man getting into a car, a suspicious bag left on a train, or a friend with mental health issues making ugly threats about Muslims.

    The alternative is a police state.
    Leon is the new Plato. It's a tale we have seen before.
    Plato, the lady who was the canary in the coal mine in 2016, that Plato?
    Her final 2016 prediction was that Clinton would win..
    It's a long time ago, but wasnt everyone convinced that Plato was actually the less well known wife of Mr E Balls?
  • Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Party and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
    The phrase “part and parcel” was grotesquely complacent - vis a vis brutal murderous terror attacks. It doesn’t really matter what he said afterwards (tho in fact what he said afterward doesn’t truly exonerate him)

    Let’s switch it up so you and @TSE and the other slow learners can see what I mean


    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for racist murders of black children, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”

    See?

    If a right wing mayor said that you’d be screaming for her resignation within an hour. But because it was odious lefty gnome Khan, it’s all good
    Leon, you're toying with the rabbit hole. We're used to (and enjoy) the endless stream of frenetic excitement, and appreciate you're testing ideas out before using them in more considered writing.

    But since the riots you have been regularly regurgitating far-right memes and falsehoods, particularly over the sentencing over some very nasty people. What Khan said is perfectly reasonable, and it is normal for people living in a city of 8 million to assist the police in keeping everyone safe. I would expect you to do the same, whether it's a drunk man getting into a car, a suspicious bag left on a train, or a friend with mental health issues making ugly threats about Muslims.

    The alternative is a police state.
    Leon is the new Plato. It's a tale we have seen before.
    Plato, the lady who was the canary in the coal mine in 2016, that Plato?
    Her final 2016 prediction was that Clinton would win..
    It's a long time ago, but wasnt everyone convinced that Plato was actually the less well known wife of Mr E Balls?

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Party and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
    The phrase “part and parcel” was grotesquely complacent - vis a vis brutal murderous terror attacks. It doesn’t really matter what he said afterwards (tho in fact what he said afterward doesn’t truly exonerate him)

    Let’s switch it up so you and @TSE and the other slow learners can see what I mean


    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for racist murders of black children, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”

    See?

    If a right wing mayor said that you’d be screaming for her resignation within an hour. But because it was odious lefty gnome Khan, it’s all good
    Leon, you're toying with the rabbit hole. We're used to (and enjoy) the endless stream of frenetic excitement, and appreciate you're testing ideas out before using them in more considered writing.

    But since the riots you have been regularly regurgitating far-right memes and falsehoods, particularly over the sentencing over some very nasty people. What Khan said is perfectly reasonable, and it is normal for people living in a city of 8 million to assist the police in keeping everyone safe. I would expect you to do the same, whether it's a drunk man getting into a car, a suspicious bag left on a train, or a friend with mental health issues making ugly threats about Muslims.

    The alternative is a police state.
    Leon is the new Plato. It's a tale we have seen before.
    Plato, the lady who was the canary in the coal mine in 2016, that Plato?
    Her final 2016 prediction was that Clinton would win..
    It's a long time ago, but wasnt everyone convinced that Plato was actually the less well known wife of Mr E Balls?
    No, that was Snowflake.
  • Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Party and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
    The phrase “part and parcel” was grotesquely complacent - vis a vis brutal murderous terror attacks. It doesn’t really matter what he said afterwards (tho in fact what he said afterward doesn’t truly exonerate him)

    Let’s switch it up so you and @TSE and the other slow learners can see what I mean


    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for racist murders of black children, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”

    See?

    If a right wing mayor said that you’d be screaming for her resignation within an hour. But because it was odious lefty gnome Khan, it’s all good
    Leon, you're toying with the rabbit hole. We're used to (and enjoy) the endless stream of frenetic excitement, and appreciate you're testing ideas out before using them in more considered writing.

    But since the riots you have been regularly regurgitating far-right memes and falsehoods, particularly over the sentencing over some very nasty people. What Khan said is perfectly reasonable, and it is normal for people living in a city of 8 million to assist the police in keeping everyone safe. I would expect you to do the same, whether it's a drunk man getting into a car, a suspicious bag left on a train, or a friend with mental health issues making ugly threats about Muslims.

    The alternative is a police state.
    Leon is the new Plato. It's a tale we have seen before.
    Plato, the lady who was the canary in the coal mine in 2016, that Plato?
    Her final 2016 prediction was that Clinton would win..
    It's a long time ago, but wasnt everyone convinced that Plato was actually the less well known wife of Mr E Balls?

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Party and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
    The phrase “part and parcel” was grotesquely complacent - vis a vis brutal murderous terror attacks. It doesn’t really matter what he said afterwards (tho in fact what he said afterward doesn’t truly exonerate him)

    Let’s switch it up so you and @TSE and the other slow learners can see what I mean


    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for racist murders of black children, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”

    See?

    If a right wing mayor said that you’d be screaming for her resignation within an hour. But because it was odious lefty gnome Khan, it’s all good
    Leon, you're toying with the rabbit hole. We're used to (and enjoy) the endless stream of frenetic excitement, and appreciate you're testing ideas out before using them in more considered writing.

    But since the riots you have been regularly regurgitating far-right memes and falsehoods, particularly over the sentencing over some very nasty people. What Khan said is perfectly reasonable, and it is normal for people living in a city of 8 million to assist the police in keeping everyone safe. I would expect you to do the same, whether it's a drunk man getting into a car, a suspicious bag left on a train, or a friend with mental health issues making ugly threats about Muslims.

    The alternative is a police state.
    Leon is the new Plato. It's a tale we have seen before.
    Plato, the lady who was the canary in the coal mine in 2016, that Plato?
    Her final 2016 prediction was that Clinton would win..
    It's a long time ago, but wasnt everyone convinced that Plato was actually the less well known wife of Mr E Balls?
    No, that was Snowflake.
    Ah, thanks.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,236

    FTP…

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    What worries me about Europe going for the Rwanda deal and Labour not having the balls to push it through is that it will increase the pull factor for illegal immigrants to come to the UK if they believe that staying in the EU will result in a one way ticket to Rwanda.

    Labour made a very poor decision to rule out offshore asylum seeker hosting and it may result reform breaching the 25% mark in the polls if Europe makes it work and we're not doing it.

    Except it won’t be a one way ticket if it’s as currently proposed by several countries. In any case we only get a tiny fraction of the European flow anyway - generally people with relatives here or English speakers.

    UK can do a lot to get its act together on asylum, speed up processing, speed deportations, rapidly integrate successful refugees into the labour market etc.
    BBC report has some French people blaming the ease of work in the U.K. without checks etc as one of the bigger pulls. So easy to shut down too - ID card linked to NI number and proper checking of all those restaurants, car washes and Turkish barbers.
    UK government stats have previously said that very few people coming over on boats disappear into the black economy. Nearly all present themselves to the authorities to claim asylum.
    IIRC the guestimates of the total number is based on the numbers claiming asylum....
    People will only claim asylum if they think they qualify and will be successful. The others will either come over clandestinely and disappear into the black economy or they are discouraged and don't come at all.

    I wouldn't discount more of the second than the first.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.

    Didn't Leon used to rate her ?
    Yep. She was the next Trump and going to go all the way to the top iirc.
    I spotted her when she was completely unknown, and said: she has charisma and will become a player. No one on PB had even heard of her

    So it was. She lost the Arizona governor fight by a whisker

    I accept she’s somewhat messed up since. For a moment she looked like a credible VP pick (maybe she still does compared to Vance)

    Part of her problem is - as I noted at the time - she a bit too old. She’s an attractive women but getting on in years. If she was 15 years younger she would be this firecracker beauty with a trumpite shtick and a ready wit. Now she looks like a slightly crazy granny, TBH
    She’s just turned 55. Only 18 months older than Megyn Kelly, that other famous conservative news hottie.
    Yes but for some reason Kari Lake needs youth. I don’t know why - but she does

    I’ve just been thinking about age and political careers (it’s not that sad, I’m stuck in Kotor traffic)

    It’s a complex relationship. Sometimes age works, sometimes youth. Depends on the candidate and the electorate

    Take Corbyn. No way would he have got as far as he did if he was younger (at the time). He’d have been seen as a dangerous if eccentric radical. But because he was older = magic grandpa

    Equally an old JFK would not have worked either. Just a pervy old man
    Isn't sitting in traffic one of the best, most direct and authentic ways of observing and ingesting whatever culture you are in. I don't mean a halting conversation with the taxi driver, I mean looking out of the window at the place just going about its business.

    Why drag yourself back to Stockport or restrict yourself to martinis by the pool.
    Five things I’m not gonna miss about Montenegro

    1. The roads
    2. The roads
    3. The drivers
    4. The traffic
    5. The roads
    I am not 100% sure you have given the roads, or the traffic, or the roads your full attention, that said, so it is an incomplete analysis.
  • Thanks RB for an interesting piece. Just one quick question.

    If KH is doing better in the Senate races, why is she drifting on Betfair?

    Objectively she looks a buy at the current price of 2.14, but I smell a rat.

    Wadyatink?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    The Democratic candidates in the above races are all largely incumbent Senators which gives them an advantage. Remember too Trump gets a personal vote from some white working class voters who otherwise vote Democrat, see his outperformance of the GOP Senate candidate in Michigan in 2020 even if Biden narrowly won the state
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012
    From the Daily Kos:

    "Just today we got some new registration numbers from Pennsylvania. Since Harris got into the race, there has been a 60% increase in new registrations (compared to 2020) for voters under 30, a 49% increase among women, a 110% increase among Black voters, and a stunning 262% increase among Black women. All in PA."

    The electorate is changing and not to Trump's advantage.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    Thanks RB for an interesting piece. Just one quick question.

    If KH is doing better in the Senate races, why is she drifting on Betfair?

    Objectively she looks a buy at the current price of 2.14, but I smell a rat.

    Wadyatink?

    I suspect your average Betfair punter is less educated than we are.

    And I know that the data we currently have shows every result from a Trump landslide to a Harris one depending on how you weigh it.

    So not a clue but I'm keeping well out of this market for the moment...
  • Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.

    Didn't Leon used to rate her ?
    Yep. She was the next Trump and going to go all the way to the top iirc.
    I spotted her when she was completely unknown, and said: she has charisma and will become a player. No one on PB had even heard of her

    So it was. She lost the Arizona governor fight by a whisker

    I accept she’s somewhat messed up since. For a moment she looked like a credible VP pick (maybe she still does compared to Vance)

    Part of her problem is - as I noted at the time - she a bit too old. She’s an attractive women but getting on in years. If she was 15 years younger she would be this firecracker beauty with a trumpite shtick and a ready wit. Now she looks like a slightly crazy granny, TBH
    She’s just turned 55. Only 18 months older than Megyn Kelly, that other famous conservative news hottie.
    Yes but for some reason Kari Lake needs youth. I don’t know why - but she does

    I’ve just been thinking about age and political careers (it’s not that sad, I’m stuck in Kotor traffic)

    It’s a complex relationship. Sometimes age works, sometimes youth. Depends on the candidate and the electorate

    Take Corbyn. No way would he have got as far as he did if he was younger (at the time). He’d have been seen as a dangerous if eccentric radical. But because he was older = magic grandpa

    Equally an old JFK would not have worked either. Just a pervy old man
    Not just politics. Everyone has an age where they are most authentically themselves (hat tip.to Stephen Fry, who muses on the concept in one of his novels). In Fry's case it was probably his post-Footlights, knowing young fogey time. Whereas Michael Gove couldn't entirely pull that off, and is possibly reaching his true age about now- the old forget who still has the moves.

    Starmer's premiership, to the extent it ends up working, needs a bit of the "one last case to solve before the detective retires" weary experience.

    Johnson was already beginning to sag when he entered Downing Street, unlike when he was in City Hall. It was the hair, and its gradual loss. Like Gyles Brandreth's jumpers, it was a great substitute for an act.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,932
    edited September 6
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.

    Didn't Leon used to rate her ?
    Yep. She was the next Trump and going to go all the way to the top iirc.
    I spotted her when she was completely unknown, and said: she has charisma and will become a player. No one on PB had even heard of her

    So it was. She lost the Arizona governor fight by a whisker

    I accept she’s somewhat messed up since. For a moment she looked like a credible VP pick (maybe she still does compared to Vance)

    Part of her problem is - as I noted at the time - she a bit too old. She’s an attractive women but getting on in years. If she was 15 years younger she would be this firecracker beauty with a trumpite shtick and a ready wit. Now she looks like a slightly crazy granny, TBH
    LOL A bit of selective memory there. You think you spot things before other people. A bit like the pet treatment getting into rivers. It was a great revelation to you and therefore it must be to everyone else on PB whereas it wasn't to quite a few of us and you found it too incredible to be true that others were aware years before you.

    Of course we could go back and check, but you have blocked us all from seeing your previous posts. Why not open them up for us to view. You can see all of mine.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143

    https://www.gulbenkian.co.uk/uk-visa-and-immigration-statistics/ adds…

    “Estimates suggest a figure between 800,000 and 1.2 million undocumented migrants residing in the UK as of June 2023. A significant portion, 82%, initially entered the UK legally but overstayed their visas.”

    Am I right in thinking that unlike most countries (or blocks as in Schengen) we don't track people in and out of the country? Given how much we spend on border security and available technology that seems a strange quirk.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,723
    edited September 6

    Very on topic:

    "The analyst Ryan Girdusky has spotted one of the problems. Voters over the age of 65 backed Trump in the last two elections, but polls are now indicating Harris is going to beat Trump decisively amongst that age group.

    Rather than that being a genuine shift, Girdusky has identified that older white liberals are more likely to answer polls than older white or Hispanic conservatives"


    If you think Trump is losing, you’re in for a nasty surprise
    Polls pointing to a Kamala Harris victory appear to be skewed by including too many Democrat voters

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/06/if-you-think-trump-losing-in-for-nasty-surprise/

    Typical of the state of the Telegraph to be quoting maga conspiracy-theorist Girdusky as an 'analyst'.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting AI treaty up for signing today, between the US, UK, and Council of Europe countries.

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/us-britain-eu-sign-agreement-ai-standards-ft-reports-2024-09-05/

    EU lobbyists describe it as watered down, and have their own tougher AI regulation - which suggests this new Treaty is going to be good news for the US and UK. Another Brexit benefit.

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/us-britain-eu-sign-agreement-ai-standards-ft-reports-2024-09-05/

    Less regulation in not always a good thing, something that should be on our minds in the week of the Grenfell report.

    Though for regulation to be effective it has to be both well written and enforced.
    The Housing Minister in the Cameron government instituted a grotesquely named as it turned out "bonfire of red tape" in his department. It was a highly politicised campaign, the only effect of which was to remove safety protections. It was one of the factors in the death of 70 people in Grenfell Tower.

    The same minister still represents the Conservatives on the House of Lords and told the inquiry to hurry up its questions because he had important people to see.

    And people on here will say Starmer has the worst government of their life times.
    No regulation is going to account for people lying and fabricating results.
    The real problem is the complete detachment of regulation from enforcement.

    A friend's block was structurally deficient, as well as having the inflamable cladding. That is, it was designed with concrete pillars that were too small, and the quality of concrete actually used was too low.

    Litteral rooms of paperwork on this and other buildings built by the contractors. Strangely, the actual concrete design and testing is not to be found.

    This is not an isolated case - consider the reports of houses having to be demolished, immediately after being built.

    The problem is that regulation has completely detached from the reality of building. So telephone directory reports are prepared and not read. While basic rules are broken on the sites.

    The situation reminds me of 2008 - when every trader had to have given a photocopy of his/her passport to HR, and done dozens of click through, online tests to prove that they wouldn't say "yes' to "would you commit crime?". After all that, they carried on trading derivatives.....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    https://www.gulbenkian.co.uk/uk-visa-and-immigration-statistics/ adds…

    “Estimates suggest a figure between 800,000 and 1.2 million undocumented migrants residing in the UK as of June 2023. A significant portion, 82%, initially entered the UK legally but overstayed their visas.”

    Am I right in thinking that unlike most countries (or blocks as in Schengen) we don't track people in and out of the country? Given how much we spend on border security and available technology that seems a strange quirk.
    Yes - it is interesting to see the resistance to counting in/out.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518

    Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.

    And repeal this absurd legislation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

    Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.

    Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)

    Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
    Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like
    London

    Presumably his career ended after that?
    Actual Khan quote:

    “Party and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”


    What Vance said:

    The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.

    “I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”

    https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-georgia-shooting-7d7727a1aff8491f66914a4d8a14cd8c

    How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
    The phrase “part and parcel” was grotesquely complacent - vis a vis brutal murderous terror attacks. It doesn’t really matter what he said afterwards (tho in fact what he said afterward doesn’t truly exonerate him)

    Let’s switch it up so you and @TSE and the other slow learners can see what I mean


    “Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for racist murders of black children, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”

    See?

    If a right wing mayor said that you’d be screaming for her resignation within an hour. But because it was odious lefty gnome Khan, it’s all good
    Leon, you're toying with the rabbit hole. We're used to (and enjoy) the endless stream of frenetic excitement, and appreciate you're testing ideas out before using them in more considered writing.

    But since the riots you have been regularly regurgitating far-right memes and falsehoods, particularly over the sentencing over some very nasty people. What Khan said is perfectly reasonable, and it is normal for people living in a city of 8 million to assist the police in keeping everyone safe. I would expect you to do the same, whether it's a drunk man getting into a car, a suspicious bag left on a train, or a friend with mental health issues making ugly threats about Muslims.

    The alternative is a police state.
    Leon is the new Plato. It's a tale we have seen before.
    Plato, the lady who was the canary in the coal mine in 2016, that Plato?
    Her final 2016 prediction was that Clinton would win..
    It's a long time ago, but wasnt everyone convinced that Plato was actually the less well known wife of Mr E Balls?
    Does Ed Balls have more than one wife? :open_mouth:
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143

    https://www.gulbenkian.co.uk/uk-visa-and-immigration-statistics/ adds…

    “Estimates suggest a figure between 800,000 and 1.2 million undocumented migrants residing in the UK as of June 2023. A significant portion, 82%, initially entered the UK legally but overstayed their visas.”

    Am I right in thinking that unlike most countries (or blocks as in Schengen) we don't track people in and out of the country? Given how much we spend on border security and available technology that seems a strange quirk.
    Yes - it is interesting to see the resistance to counting in/out.
    Seems a better idea to me than spending £1bn to find 4 volunteers to send to Rwanda, but what do I know.....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.

    Didn't Leon used to rate her ?
    Yep. She was the next Trump and going to go all the way to the top iirc.
    I spotted her when she was completely unknown, and said: she has charisma and will become a player. No one on PB had even heard of her

    So it was. She lost the Arizona governor fight by a whisker

    I accept she’s somewhat messed up since. For a moment she looked like a credible VP pick (maybe she still does compared to Vance)

    Part of her problem is - as I noted at the time - she a bit too old. She’s an attractive women but getting on in years. If she was 15 years younger she would be this firecracker beauty with a trumpite shtick and a ready wit. Now she looks like a slightly crazy granny, TBH
    LOL A bit of selective memory there. You think you spot things before other people. A bit like the pet treatment getting into rivers. It was a great revelation to you and therefore it must be to everyone else on PB whereas it wasn't to quite a few of us and you found it too incredible to be true that others were aware years before you.

    Of course we could go back and check, but you have blocked us all from seeing your previous posts. Why not open them up for us to view. You can see all of mine.
    I refer you to my prior reply involving the word “don’t give” and “fuck” and “tiny sperm of a”
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    The Tories (and others..) are making two interesting attack lines on the government's VAT on school fees policy:

    1) Have the government looked into how this will affect SEND places and education?
    2) Will the VAT apply to the children of military servicemen who send their kids to private school?

    I don't know much about the former, but one of my friends went to boarding school because both of his parents served in the military. I'd expect the government to exempt, or repay, them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    https://www.gulbenkian.co.uk/uk-visa-and-immigration-statistics/ adds…

    “Estimates suggest a figure between 800,000 and 1.2 million undocumented migrants residing in the UK as of June 2023. A significant portion, 82%, initially entered the UK legally but overstayed their visas.”

    Am I right in thinking that unlike most countries (or blocks as in Schengen) we don't track people in and out of the country? Given how much we spend on border security and available technology that seems a strange quirk.
    Yes - it is interesting to see the resistance to counting in/out.
    Seems a better idea to me than spending £1bn to find 4 volunteers to send to Rwanda, but what do I know.....
    I rather suspect that it is a case of the System being worried about measuring something where they don't know the answer already.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    DavidL said:

    From the Daily Kos:

    "Just today we got some new registration numbers from Pennsylvania. Since Harris got into the race, there has been a 60% increase in new registrations (compared to 2020) for voters under 30, a 49% increase among women, a 110% increase among Black voters, and a stunning 262% increase among Black women. All in PA."

    The electorate is changing and not to Trump's advantage.

    If you click through on their link this seems to be talking about just one week in July.
    262% is a big increase, but it's actually black women under 30, in one week in July in PA. So probably not that many in absolute numbers.
  • https://www.gulbenkian.co.uk/uk-visa-and-immigration-statistics/ adds…

    “Estimates suggest a figure between 800,000 and 1.2 million undocumented migrants residing in the UK as of June 2023. A significant portion, 82%, initially entered the UK legally but overstayed their visas.”

    Am I right in thinking that unlike most countries (or blocks as in Schengen) we don't track people in and out of the country? Given how much we spend on border security and available technology that seems a strange quirk.
    Yes - it is interesting to see the resistance to counting in/out.
    A problem overlooked is almost as good as a problem solved. Conversely, quantifying a problem makes things worse.

    The political problem with the boats is that they're visible. (The real problem with the boats is that they're dangerous and funnel money to criminals. But if we really really cared about that, we'd process claims for UK asylum in Calais. Reality is that we care about other things more.)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.

    Remember Roy Moore?

    Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.

    Didn't Leon used to rate her ?
    Yep. She was the next Trump and going to go all the way to the top iirc.
    I spotted her when she was completely unknown, and said: she has charisma and will become a player. No one on PB had even heard of her

    So it was. She lost the Arizona governor fight by a whisker

    I accept she’s somewhat messed up since. For a moment she looked like a credible VP pick (maybe she still does compared to Vance)

    Part of her problem is - as I noted at the time - she a bit too old. She’s an attractive women but getting on in years. If she was 15 years younger she would be this firecracker beauty with a trumpite shtick and a ready wit. Now she looks like a slightly crazy granny, TBH
    LOL A bit of selective memory there. You think you spot things before other people. A bit like the pet treatment getting into rivers. It was a great revelation to you and therefore it must be to everyone else on PB whereas it wasn't to quite a few of us and you found it too incredible to be true that others were aware years before you.

    Of course we could go back and check, but you have blocked us all from seeing your previous posts. Why not open them up for us to view. You can see all of mine.
    He tries the patience, doesn't he.
This discussion has been closed.